WEBVTT - Interview Only w/ Atima Omara - What Does A Winning Democratic Coalition Look Like In ‘28? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.040 This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:04.440 by Ethos and what Ethos does is it helps you 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:06.880 find life insurance. Let me tell you why life insurance 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.360 bailed me out. My father died when I was sixteen. 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:11.680 We didn't have a lot of money when it happened, 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.640 and we were in a pretty tough financial spot after 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.520 it happened. I'm an only child. Suddenly my mother's single, 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.360 single mother. She had a job, suddenly lost a job, 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:23.799 looking for another job, and we were struggling. You know, 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.720 my dad didn't leave us in the best financial situation, 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:29.080 but he did make one purchase. 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Application times may 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:48.000 vary and rates may vary. So joining me now is 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:52.680 a first time author. The book is called The Instigators 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.240 And as you can see the author here, Attima Omara, 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.680 she's even she's got merch. I love it like you 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:01.320 know you got a with it there. I mean you 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:07.320 are extraordinarily well prepared. What this book is about, It's 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:11.480 essentially about the role that black women in particular, have 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:16.080 played and are playing right now in American politics, and 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.880 the influential role that younger Black women are playing these 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:23.560 days in American politics. So this book is part analysis 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:27.280 because she's in the advocacy space, political strategy space, but 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.200 also historical because this is not a new thing. Black 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.320 women in many ways have carried the banner for civil 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:39.240 rights and for voting rights and for just rights in general. 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.919 So Tima joins me. Now, Tima, welcome to the podcast. 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:43.639 Thanks for having me. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:50.640 So. Obviously, one of the big pushbacks that your book 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:55.679 is attempting to do, Rich is there's the general consensus 0:02:55.720 --> 0:03:00.440 that it's white swing voters, suburban moderates that decide actions. 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.920 And in some ways this is an attempt to blow 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.440 up that myth a little bit. And I think we 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.400 all have realized that swing voters are not people that 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.760 swing between h two sides to actually, most swing voters 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.359 swing between voting and not voting as much as they 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.400 swing actually between the two parties. Not saying that there 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.200 aren't some voters that do this and they become incredibly 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.760 decisive when the margins are super thin. But is that 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:27.640 a fair is that? Is that a fair marker? 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:27.800 Here. 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.280 If it was one of the big MythBusters you wanted 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.280 to do, was that, Yes, definitely. 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:38.120 I wanted to challenge sort of a narrative that if 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:42.480 we are are focusing on trying to get this way 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:48.360 moderate swing voter, you know, trying to think of thinking 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.080 of that particular guy, and you would know this from 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.040 your coverage. I'm forgetting him. But he's like the guy 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:57.400 and like the plumber. Well yeah, don't the plumber. He's one, 0:03:57.520 --> 0:03:59.640 and there's like another one where he's just like, I'm 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:01.360 still deciding and everybody. 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.760 Office park Dad, Right, we've got that one, right. 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.400 You know, sometimes you get like the Nascar mom or 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:12.560 soccer mom who's just trying to make decisions, and I 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.240 get that that is is fascinating sort of in coverage 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:20.159 in media, but it's it's it's not great as the 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:24.839 basis as the foundation of a political strategy for certainly 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:26.240 the Democratic Party. Anyway. 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.400 Well, you start your book, you start with Virginia. So 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.359 this is something I'm very familiar with, and certainly my 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:34.920 listeners over the last few weeks have gotten very familiar. 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:39.719 We've talked a lot about Virginia in general. But it's 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.120 it's you start talking about the Ralph Northam scandal and 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.600 his black face scandal and sort of the role. Walk 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:50.039 me through the role you think black women played in that, 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:52.280 and I guess it would be his political survival. 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:58.440 Yeah. So you had elected officials, You had cabinet members 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.839 of his as well as advocates who were like, all right, 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.880 if you want to stay in political power, we are 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.320 going to make you put in the work for it. 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.880 So you had organizers like Chelsea Higgs Wise who had 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:19.160 started ah, you know, marijuana advocacy organization that was grassroots 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.680 to push for the legalization, like, forget the criminalization, We're 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.799 just going to go the full legalization and organizing people 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.880 around that young, you know, black single mother. And then 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.400 you had a Don McClure. She's now a state House 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.320 representative House of Delegates in Virginia, but was head of 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.599 the Virginia Legacy of Black Caucus. That's use this to 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:42.120 put together a very ambitious legislate of agenda. Maybe not 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:44.840 everything's going to get passed on criminal justice reform, social 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.160 safety and and such, but we are going to put 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.960 it forth in this in the in this opportunity. And 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.200 then you have a Voting Rights Act. We have our 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.600 own state voting rights ac modeled off the sixty five 0:05:57.680 --> 0:05:58.560 Voting Rights Act. 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.240 Thanks to then states Er Jenna from McClellan. 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:03.719 And then you had a lot of the initiatives just 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.840 in state government and policy that were being pushed by 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.080 cabinet secretaries at the time who were younger black women, 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:14.760 and so you know, a lot of this happened as 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.560 Northern was trying to figure out how to rebound and 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:23.920 take advantage of trying to stay in place. And it 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:28.000 came right into the spring of twenty twenty when George 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.000 Floyd was murdered and now we're all inside and now 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:35.080 it was really an additional captive audiences. They say in 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:40.480 public policy, the Overton window had shifted traumatically, and they 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.719 were poised to take all of that work and knowledge 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.640 and strategy and push for a lot of the change 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:48.760 that we now have in Virginia. 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:52.160 Well, look, you had leverage over him. Yeah, he decided 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.240 and it was I don't want to say it was 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:58.880 accidental leverage, but it was it was almost leverage that 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:00.960 was lost. I mean, not to get into the tragedy 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:06.080 of the late now late lieutenant governor, but because he 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:12.000 politically was essentially paralyzed at the moment then and unable 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:16.800 to be seen as the as the alternative if there 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:22.760 was a p if Northam decided to resign in the 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.160 in this case, was it easier to get leverage on 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.280 him or was it actually harder when he felt quote 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:34.360 politically safer because his LG had separate political issues that 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.680 made him a fraud potential replacement governor. 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.000 And probably and I liuded to it there in the 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.480 book that I think it made him feel like, Okay, 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:48.320 I've got more room to try and assert that I stay. 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:52.920 And that is where that sentiment that winter and going 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.320 into spring of twenty twenty, where folks were like, all right, 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.400 if you wist, say, we're going to make it work 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:02.280 for it and how a lot of those policies, and 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.640 you know, he made himself very amenable to that because 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:10.560 I think you realize, certainly politically it was going to 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.920 be hard their cabinet memberswil elected officials, we're going to 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:18.280 resign or certainly make his political life not very uncomfortable 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:23.200 if he had not been as amenable, so credit even 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:24.800 being a minimal, but I also think he was put 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.720 in a position where you know, he felt that he 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.800 had to be a lot more to prove to folks 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.959 that he was what he believed himself to be as 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:36.560 a better changed person. 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.960 How often do you think, I actually think sometimes interest 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.160 groups don't take advantage of what I would call transactional 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:47.080 leverage moments. Yeah, meaning you know where, look, this is 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.160 not somebody that would normally be your ally, but they 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.079 kind of need you more than you you know, and 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.600 you know what, maybe we can extract some concessions out 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.600 of here. And there's so much pressure these days, frankly, 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.080 not to be seen as working with somebody who may 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.440 was against your interests six months ago, six years ago. 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.199 You know the you know what always invited, What always 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.319 made to me what the most inviting thing of our 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:14.040 democracy in general, is that even at its founding, it 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.400 was intended to be a negotiation, right, that it was 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.760 always a negotiation. So if we if you think of 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.280 politics as a negotiation, it means you're going to actually 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.960 make some common cause with people you don't normally agree with, 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.160 because it's a quote negotiation. And yet I feel like 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:33.079 that art has been lost in modern politics, more so 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.480 in the democratic side of the eye. Am i am 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.720 I being a little overly critical here, probably not. 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:44.920 I mean there are moments where you know, listen, there 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.280 are folks realizing, Okay, I voted for something three times 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:55.319 that is now pretty terrible, And I'm not super interested 0:09:55.679 --> 0:10:01.880 in being buddies with these folks. However, if there is an. 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.319 Operation, I don't want to be lectured at for supporting 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.640 this entity for the lest right, right, Yeah, lecturing like 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:10.800 telling me I was wrong, Okay, I was wrong. 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:15.000 And for me it's like, okay, listen, like you're going 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:17.800 to be on the same page and voting great, but 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:21.480 you don't want to do this again. We don't want 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.480 to have to go through this again. We are going 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:26.200 to on the other side of this have to have 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:30.439 a conversation about why you did what you did and 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.440 why you thought that this made the most sense. So 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.480 I'm one of those people where it's like I understand 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.000 the point of coalitions where it's like, all right, let's 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:42.520 just be in the room on this one point and win, 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:47.000 so that we can at least have a conversation. 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:51.880 On the other side about how we retain this victory. 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.959 Let's talk about twenty four because in here you're pretty 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.840 you're pretty tough on the Democrats walk me through it. 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.040 What could have been was it was this an election 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.600 that was lost on persuasion or mobilization. 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:09.280 Very much mobilization. 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:11.920 I think some of the things that have been leaking 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:15.559 from the twenty twenty four Action reporter point. 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.480 That we're never going to see you're ever going to 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:17.800 see it? 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.400 Yeah, you're never going to see. And you know, I've 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:24.000 had an opportunity to get some insights into into what 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:25.839 it was from some briefings that I. 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:29.160 Who did it, who took in charge of this briefing 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:31.800 of this autopsy, of this autopsy? 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.600 I actually don't know there was like a whole committee formed, 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:36.600 and I know that there's like a couple of strategists 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:37.079 who did something. 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.600 There probably just two or three people that did like 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:41.559 ninety percent of the work the work, right. 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.960 Yeah, and then there's like, yeah, so there's just generally 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.880 this committee. And so we definitely lost it in mobilization. 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.400 Not to say that racism and asocrapy didn't play a role, 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.280 because there were certainly these people who were like, well, 0:11:55.320 --> 0:12:00.960 I remember distinctly Arizona, some young person and being interviewed 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.560 and why, you know, who are you going to vote for? Trump? 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:07.199 And why well, Amala didn't show up on the Joe 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:11.240 Rogan podcast. I'm just like, Okay, I don't think that 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:12.360 was the deciding factor. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:13.760 I feel like that was a good excuse. 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.960 But okay, sure, so you had those, but when you 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.640 have Trump didn't actually get as much as he was, Like, 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.679 this was a landslide. It was small amounts of margins 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.120 of votes in all the seven states. And when you 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.040 looked at what happened in twenty twenty, where we were 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.199 trying to make it more accessible to vote for folks, 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.160 and obviously that rolled back, but then you also looked 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.400 at Trump's margins, you didn't do that much better than 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:40.079 twenty twenty. 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.320 It was the Democratic turnout that was lower. 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:45.719 And it's all be a combination of voter suppression and 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.480 not having dealt with that, but also the mobilization there's 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.520 now and I cited in the book lots of stories 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:58.679 from black staffers who were trying to renegade just figure 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.719 out how to do operational work on the ground and 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.640 communities that we needed to vote, as well as you know, 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.959 black consultants who weren't sort of getting the resources they 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.079 needed and block led brown led organizations to turn out 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.880 their communities that they got in twenty twenty by comparison. 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.480 Well, to me, you know, I've always said that the 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.520 damning part of this election on the mobilization front is 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.559 not the seventh the results in the seven states, it's 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:31.080 actually the results in the other forty three. Right when 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:35.800 you look at the number of blue states that ended 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.720 up single digits close to five points, like Illinois, New 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.960 Jersey to me, or the probably the best examples, but 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.480 this was across the board, right, It just felt like 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.840 that there was somewhere, you know, I do think I 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.520 go back to what I believe more so today than 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.720 I even believed a decade ago, which is that swing 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.320 voters are those that swing between voting and not voting, 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.559 which means it is a mobilization tool. But it doesn't 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.920 mean you don't have persuasion. Right, Yeah, And this is 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:05.800 why I hate saying, you know, and I did it 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.960 to you, right, I said Pick one was a mobilization persuasion. Well, 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.280 the fact of the matter is you couldn't persuade those 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.040 who normally are with you to go vote. So guess what, 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:18.120 you had a mobilization problem that was also a persuasion problem. 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.880 You know that is like, there just weren't people excited. 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.840 Now we all have our theories. Were they not excited 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:26.960 about her because she was trying to straddle the fence 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.360 between sort of the old guard of the party and 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.400 the progressive wing. Was it because she was saddled with 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:37.040 an unpopular president, which is frankly, sometimes I look at 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.200 things and it's like, let's stop being complicated. Hubert Humphrey 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:44.320 didn't win, Al Gore didn't win, Kamala Harris didn't win. 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:48.800 It's hard to succeed a president who is unpopular for 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.680 one reason or the other, either personally or professionally. And 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.680 my goodness, look how close she came. And yet and 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.200 yes he was holding it right. So I'm still at 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.360 the end of the day this on Biden that we 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.960 could sit here and nitpick all we want. If Biden 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.880 had been a more popular president, Kamala Harris would be president. 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:12.200 Yeah it was. And yeah, there was a the fact 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:16.480 that the margins were so tight, and then the fact 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.840 that you had she had one hundred and seven days. 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.640 And as somebody pointed out when they were talking about 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.440 the election, I was going out and thought about it. 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.760 But she's like a voting started basically after the convention, 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:35.240 so she was already behind before she started. And so 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.680 that is you know, that's where I sort of am 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:42.160 as well in thinking there was not a lot that 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:46.400 between his popularity and then the operation that was handed 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.720 to her that set her up for success, and she 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.480 closed that gap. Like the stories about him being under 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:53.560 the water and then he couldn't have pulled it out 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.840 were as we now know true, and she really didn't 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:58.480 as much as she could to close the. 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.200 Gap and came very She saved three or four Senate seats. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.560 I look at it, you know, I don't think people. 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:10.080 I mean, you know, let's Wisconsin, Arizona, Nevada. What am 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:13.480 I leaving out here? Is it Michigan? Yeah, it's Michigan. Right, 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.560 four Senate seats Joe Biden would have lost. Joe Biden 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.160 been the nominee, he'd lost all four of those Senate 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.040 seats go down. I'm pretty convinced to that because he 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:26.480 probably has something. He's probably performs two or three points 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:27.280 lower than she does. 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:27.960 Yeah. 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.400 Yeah, I felt that as well. That was the failing. 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:35.800 Even just the energy on the ground and volunteer enthusiasm 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:40.480 is completely shifted of people who were of the diehards 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.640 wanted to get work done and volunteer shifted with her 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:46.280 at the top of the ticket. 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:51.440 I'm going to go back to black women voters, and 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.840 it is more and more Democrats talk about that black 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.560 women are the heart and soul, certainly in primary politics. 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:01.800 One of the things that I think is nobody quite 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.199 knows the answer to. And I see people in the 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:09.120 media just as presume that black women are primary are 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.320 super voters, so that must mean they're super lefty, and 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.639 that's not the same. I think that that's always the 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.320 biggest mistake most amateur analysts make with black voters. But 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.080 walk me through sort of the ideological spectrum of black 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.560 women and what works and what ideological arguments don't like. 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:32.480 Why do some progressives have such a hard time convincing 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.439 black voters to support them. 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.600 I think oftentimes, and I'll say this from my own 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:42.480 perspective and the conversations in my cohort, is that you're 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.720 having conversations with people who are not having an analysis 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.640 of an economic issue that takes into account the experiences 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.720 of what it means to be black, brown, or woman 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.960 in this country. You know, every single time I heard 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.480 Bernie Sanders, all right, but it's about the economy, and 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.440 I'm like abortion rights, and in response to abortion rights 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:08.400 or anything that just wants. 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:14.560 To donay it, he kept saying. 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:16.560 Oh, it's downplaying it when every single, every single sort 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.320 of study that has come out says that you know, 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:23.840 the essentially the discussion around whether you grow a family 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.960 or not. I know it's personally is based around how 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.639 many children you have, whether whether you can feed that child, 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.160 provide for that child, and with things, yes, costs or rising, 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:39.120 but it is, it is if that's taken away, that's 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.400 a big part of an economic discussion. So as an example, 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.760 you know, talking about criminal justice reform and and not 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.719 you not talking about it in a way that at 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.280 all takes into account the humanity of black people, you know, 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.840 not talking about the environment. What's happening right now in 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.520 this country around you know, data center organizing, like anti 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:07.720 data center organizing and not really realizing it's very much 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.560 of an environmental justice. 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:11.120 Issue. 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.600 And you know that we have a great opportunity because 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.000 it's like a multi racial now sort of organizing. It's 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.120 happening in some of the redist areas to some of 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:25.760 the more blue areas against this this sort of pushing 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.639 of corporate stuff, but not really kind of capturing a 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.639 lot of that energy or understanding or proposing policies that 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.800 really take into account the experiences of what it means 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:38.639 to be black or brown in the US. 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:45.640 So so let me ask you this, do you describe 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:50.880 a two track system of insiders and instigators? Are they? 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.080 How much do those worlds trust each other? And how 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:58.239 much are they just fundamentally intentioned. 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:01.879 They don't. There's always been attention and there should be 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:04.199 a sort of a natural attention to somebody who's like 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:08.159 an elected official and government highest and you know, halls 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:11.119 of power as it were, and those who are doing 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:15.880 the activism. I do think that that has become even 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:20.600 more tense in recent years, and there's like less respect 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:23.600 really on either side. 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.280 You know, certainly for the roles that everybody has to play. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:28.800 And that's sort of why. 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.840 Is there less respect? What's your sense is it? Is 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:36.400 it money has sort of clouded the picture for the groups, 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.679 and the groups are just so driven by finances. What 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:40.080 is it? 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.560 I think on the elected official side, I think it's like, 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:46.359 why don't you tust me to just get the work time? 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.200 I think it's that their their feeling. And I think 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:55.320 on the activist side, I think it's more so that 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.840 because we don't see you doing a lot of that. 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.440 We don't even see you trying to put together piecemeal 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:08.800 reform in the direction of you know, making change, and 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.240 so you're asking us to trust you based off of 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.920 And a good example I think of is like right 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:22.440 after twenty twenty get the Senate and granted manson a 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.280 cinema were the hold up on why we couldn't get 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.040 a lot of things through build back Better Voting Rights 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:31.600 Act at least I guess what they call for the 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:39.520 people is the legislation and and and so it's like, okay, literally, 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:41.840 well you know, we can't get it through, and they're like, 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:46.160 what do we just push to put you in power? 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:46.400 For? 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:52.040 What are the ways around? You know, what are alternative 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.120 things that we can do to expand the right to vote? 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.359 Because we're telling you like, if we don't, we're seeing 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.080 a whole slew of voter suppress bill is gonna come, 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:06.120 which they did. And so I think it's that that's like, Okay, 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:08.040 you're asking us to trust where there isn't something and 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:11.040 officials are life. I need you to trust that we're 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:13.320 gonna do the right thing, and there's got to be 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:17.720 a little goob and take in that relationship. It's a dance, 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:18.679 you know. 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:24.119 This episode of the Check podcast is brought to you 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:26.440 by Soul. 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