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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It is Monday, June ninth.

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Speaker 2: We made it through Monday. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: spending the evening with us, because we have a stacked

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Speaker 2: night of headlines. Sean Didtycombe's trial that never seems to end.

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Speaker 2: Week five begins, Jane Doe back on the stand today.

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Speaker 2: Also the Karen Reid retrial. We may have closing statements

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Speaker 2: as early as tomorrow, so we absolutely do need you

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Speaker 2: to weigh in on this. And also we're looking into

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Speaker 2: the newly released pages of Luigi Mangione's manifesto body who

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Speaker 2: is with us, of course, is the expert on manifesto's

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Speaker 2: and we're doing a deep dive into what he said

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Speaker 2: and also the connection to the unibomber and Ted Kaczynski.

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Speaker 2: So just to get us started for the night correctly, welcome.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker, I, head of KAT Studios, where we

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Speaker 2: make true crime podcasts and documentaries, and I get to

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Speaker 2: do that with Courtney Armstrong.

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Speaker 3: She's our producer and host.

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Speaker 2: She hosts all kinds of our podcasts as well as

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Speaker 2: Body Movin, our crime analyst, who will also remember from

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Speaker 2: Netflix's Don't f With Cats. So where should we begin?

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Speaker 2: Let's start with Diddy? I believe body. What's the latest?

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Speaker 3: Today? Week five? Right? Week five? Band?

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Speaker 4: Today was pretty rocky? Today was like a rocky day

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Speaker 4: because the defense filed a motion for a mistrial over

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Speaker 4: the weekend. So like they want to have the entire

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Speaker 4: case basically start over because they're accusing one of the

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Speaker 4: witnesses of lying. That's not a good thing. What they're saying.

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Speaker 4: Run no, I mean not in any trial, right, I mean,

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Speaker 4: of course this is this could potentially devastating for the

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Speaker 4: prosecution if the defense gets their way.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: So what happened was Briana bag I can never say

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Speaker 4: her name.

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Speaker 3: I think she goes by Bana.

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Speaker 4: She does, she goes by Banna. Let's just call her Bana.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: So she testified last week that, you know, Diddy basically

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Speaker 4: hung her over the balcony a seventeen stories up. You know,

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Speaker 4: we all heard the story and was really rough with

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Speaker 4: her and whatnot. Well, the defense is saying they can

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Speaker 4: prove that she's lying. And they're saying that they can

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Speaker 4: prove that she's lying because on the day she said

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Speaker 4: it happened on this specific day, did he was thousands

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Speaker 4: of miles away? And they have like the receipt for

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Speaker 4: some restaurant I think he ate at on that day,

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Speaker 4: which is not even.

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Speaker 3: In that city. So yeah, so, I mean.

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Speaker 4: That's potentially pretty devastating if you know, the judge says, yeah,

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Speaker 4: this is not gonna work. Now, it also could be

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Speaker 4: that she's lying and the judge doesn't just you know,

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Speaker 4: say it's a mistrial. That could also happen. But it

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Speaker 4: was pretty devastating today for the prosecution.

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Speaker 2: It really undermines all of the great testimony we've gotten

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Speaker 2: so far too. So if in fact that's accurate, does

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Speaker 2: that really just undermine some of the testimony that has

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Speaker 2: been so gripping.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think it does. But Cassie said

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Speaker 4: on the stand that she witnessed Ditty doing this, right,

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Speaker 4: so she coroborated this testimony and when confronted, when confronted

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Speaker 4: with these text messages, and you know, this idea that

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Speaker 4: Diddy wasn't even there. Cassie said, I saw what I saw,

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Speaker 4: So she's double downing on seeing this happen.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: I kind of think it might be possible that it

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Speaker 4: didn't happen on the day they think it did. R right, Like,

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Speaker 4: you know, it was many years ago kind of situation.

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Speaker 4: You don't remember like the exact date. You know, maybe

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Speaker 4: it's something like that, but I don't know if the

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Speaker 4: judge is going to give them that kind of leeway.

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Speaker 2: And there were a lot of drugs involved by everybody's

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Speaker 2: version of the story. You know, these were drug fueled times.

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Speaker 2: And does that play a part in the timeline? Maybe

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Speaker 2: they just have it wrong.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know Jane Jane is you know, the

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Speaker 4: witness that has been testifying lately.

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Speaker 3: She was Ditty's partner. You know.

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Speaker 4: She said that they started off kind of in secret

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Speaker 4: because he was seeing many other women. She knew about it,

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Speaker 4: and she was like okay with that, but as time developed,

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Speaker 4: he kind of enveloped her entire life, right like, he

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Speaker 4: kind of controlled everything that she didn't. It happened kind

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Speaker 4: of slowly, I kind of you know, hecking it to

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Speaker 4: a frog in a pot, right, you don't know you're

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Speaker 4: being boiled alive until it's too late. Right.

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Speaker 2: I've never heard that saying before this is terrible. No

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, boil a frog and a pot.

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Speaker 4: Well, maybe it's I don't know, maybe it's where I

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Speaker 4: grow up. I don't know, but yeah, it's like you

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Speaker 4: don't realize things are happening because it happened so slowly, right,

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Speaker 4: like if frog in a pot, the water rises so slowly,

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Speaker 4: you don't realize you're being boiled alive until it's too late.

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Speaker 3: Totally.

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Speaker 4: And I think this is something that kind of happened

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Speaker 4: with with Jane.

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Speaker 5: Yes, And I'm remembering she she was a single mother

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Speaker 5: and over time did he ended up he was financing

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Speaker 5: her life in order for her to make herself available

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Speaker 5: to him at any time for.

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Speaker 3: Freak offs and otherwise.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, so it was sort of her family, her finances,

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Speaker 5: and he was claws in all the baskets, right.

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Speaker 2: And look, that is a way of if you're somebody

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Speaker 2: who's being love bombed, which is like stage one of

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Speaker 2: any of this abuse, if that's how you see it,

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Speaker 2: here you are you get love bombed by Ditty allegedly,

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Speaker 2: and he starts buying new things and you're perceiving that

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Speaker 2: as gifts and luxury items, and he's so generous, and

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Speaker 2: it's not generosity. He's essentially paying for your silence and

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Speaker 2: paying for you to participate in something whether you want

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Speaker 2: to or not. And I guess that's kind of at

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Speaker 2: the crux of it, the idea that Banna the previous testimony,

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Speaker 2: that that's you know, up for discussion in terms of

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Speaker 2: this mistrial. That's pretty alarming. There's been some online chatter. Again,

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Speaker 2: this is just the chatter online take.

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Speaker 3: I love the chatter.

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Speaker 2: The chatter this is not based in fact so allegedly

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Speaker 2: that some are saying that Ditty's defense team almost planted

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Speaker 2: Banna into this whole scenario, knowing full well that she

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Speaker 2: was an unreliable witness because it's alleged that she had

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Speaker 2: been getting drugs for them, and and and so like

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Speaker 2: the conspiracy theories have gone awry, and which one of

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Speaker 2: them are true and what's true and what's not. It's

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Speaker 2: really hard to decipher, you know. I think it's so

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Speaker 2: interesting that the chief of staff KK is being brought

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Speaker 2: into this.

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Speaker 3: Kay.

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Speaker 2: We're slowly starting to see the drip drip of some

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Speaker 2: of these larger names that would potentially point to a RICO.

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Speaker 4: Operation, right, because they're the KK, who, by the way,

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Speaker 4: is Christina Karm. She was Ditty's chief of staff, right,

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Speaker 4: she goes by KK. They're alleging she was involved in

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Speaker 4: like a recording, right, like she was responsible for recording

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Speaker 4: Ditty's calls apparently, And that's yeah, because Jane. Basically what

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Speaker 4: happened today was that they read when Jane was testifying

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Speaker 4: that when she read Cassie's lawsuit, initially she recognized some

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Speaker 4: of the behaviors that she was experiencing with Ditty real

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Speaker 4: time in Cassie's lawsuit. And three days after Cassie filed

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Speaker 4: a lawsuit, she had a phone call with Diddy and

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Speaker 4: a recording was made and it was played in court today.

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Speaker 4: Now the recording had been retrieved from KK, and Jane

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Speaker 4: told the court she did not record the call and

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Speaker 4: she was also not aware she was being recorded. So

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Speaker 4: that happened today and it was pretty you know, it's

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Speaker 4: pretty explosive.

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Speaker 2: Pretty damning too because kk's come up in a few

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Speaker 2: of the civil lawsuits as well as somebody who maybe

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Speaker 2: coordinated these efforts, whether that's drugs or for the freak offs,

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Speaker 2: the hotel, stays, extra sheets, lighting whatever. The cozy oiltion

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Speaker 2: is a thousand bottles at Savy Oil, full time job.

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Speaker 2: Apparently she was the chief of all of it. So

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Speaker 2: how does that person not have any knowledge? She of course,

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Speaker 2: claims to have no involvement with anything regarding freakofs or

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Speaker 2: drugs or trafficking.

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Speaker 5: I think this mistrial is nothing more than good lawyering

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Speaker 5: on the defense's part, to be honest, I think they

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Speaker 5: saw an opening an inch and they're trying to make

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Speaker 5: it an opening a mile. And I think it's as

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Speaker 5: simple as that. I think both of you speaking about

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Speaker 5: all of the drugs and how long this happened that

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Speaker 5: confusing Toesday the twenty first, for Thursday the twenty third,

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Speaker 5: could happen innocently that said judge could disagree.

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Speaker 2: And you know, keep in mind this, you know, we

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Speaker 2: discussed this last week briefly that you know, it had

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Speaker 2: been alleged or Trump himself just said that, you know,

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Speaker 2: he would you know, review the material regarding a pardon

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Speaker 2: when asked, by the way, he didn't volunteer this information.

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Speaker 2: He was you know, pointedly asked about a pardon for

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Speaker 2: ditty all that to be said, you know, a pardon

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Speaker 2: would only really be granted if there was something to

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Speaker 2: point to that would show Ditty was being mistreated or

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Speaker 2: that this trial was being mistreated. And if there's somebody

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Speaker 2: giving testimony on the stand that can't be you know,

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Speaker 2: taken back. That really does speak to the center of

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Speaker 2: this reco case, which is this coordination and bodyguards and

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Speaker 2: people being on the books at you know, Diddy enterprises

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Speaker 2: also being utilized for things of a sexual manner or

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Speaker 2: for trafficking. You know, it's sort of an evolving mess.

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Speaker 2: I guess they're just throwing it all at the all

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Speaker 2: at the wall right now.

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Speaker 4: Well, and I don't you know, regarding the chatter that

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Speaker 4: you were talking about earlier about you know, was she

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Speaker 4: planted as a witness that could backfire on the prosecution.

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Speaker 4: And I just I have a hard time buying that.

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Speaker 4: But you have to understand, I have like this, I

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Speaker 4: put like the judicial system on like a pedestal, you know,

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Speaker 4: I really do. And I know, I know you guys

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Speaker 4: that is so naive of me. I know, but it's hard.

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Speaker 4: It's hard for me to look at professional attorneys, you know,

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Speaker 4: especially federal attorneys, right that would ethically be in a

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Speaker 4: bad spot if they did something like that, like they

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Speaker 4: could lose their license, they could they could be disbarred

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Speaker 4: for things like that. So I just don't really think

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Speaker 4: that lawyers of this caliber and maybe that's you know, listen,

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Speaker 4: I'm willing to admit that that's a naive of me.

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Speaker 2: Like I already am with you one hundred percent on that,

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Speaker 2: I too rever the justice system. I do find it interesting,

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Speaker 2: like the lawyering is really the majority of it, right, well,

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Speaker 2: the lawyers lawyer wins.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, these lawyers have investigators, right Like they pay pis.

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Speaker 4: They pay investigators to do like these timelines and go

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Speaker 4: through all the discovery. I mean, you think the lawyer

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Speaker 4: is sitting there with all those banker boxes full of discovery. No,

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Speaker 4: it's clerks, it's investigators. It's people that are going through

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Speaker 4: it all. And they are the ones that probably found

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Speaker 4: this discrepancy, you know. And I would really like to

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Speaker 4: know a little bit more about the details of these

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Speaker 4: discrepancies between her testimony and like this receipt apparently in

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Speaker 4: these text messages, but I don't have any of those

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Speaker 4: details yet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And there was a text exchange between Bannat and Cassie.

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Speaker 2: Apparently that Cassie is making this suggestion that she's physically

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Speaker 2: not there even though her memory is serving her as

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Speaker 2: she was. Yeah, it's complicated stuff, and you know, we

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Speaker 2: were doing a little bit of a deeper dive into

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Speaker 2: Ditty's backstory in general. You know, many of us know

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Speaker 2: him as this prolific person from the nineties.

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Speaker 3: Where you know he.

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Speaker 2: Was it was East Coast West Coast Rappers. There had

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Speaker 2: been some allegation that he was somehow wrapped up in

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Speaker 2: the again allegedly allegedly, allegedly into the Tupac murder. This

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Speaker 2: is again folklore, things that have been written about forever.

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Speaker 2: If you followed this. It's interesting because that case, Tupac's

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Speaker 2: actual case, is also coming up for trial. And here

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Speaker 2: something to watch because apparently Diddy's at the center of

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Speaker 2: that too.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and that has got to be a sight to see.

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Speaker 5: We're going to continue this when we come back. We

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Speaker 5: will also be covering the retrial of Karen Reid. Could

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Speaker 5: tomorrow be the last day? Later in the show, we're

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Speaker 5: talking Luigi Mangione. His latest release pages of the Manifesto

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Speaker 5: could even inspired by the unibomber. And then it's Missing

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Speaker 5: Persons Monday and we need your help keep it here.

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Speaker 3: True Crime tonight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Diddy, we were just mentioning before the break

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Speaker 2: that he basically started bad Boy Records.

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Speaker 3: That's what he's.

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Speaker 2: Probably the most known for. By the way, such an

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Speaker 2: appropriate title for a company, right right, In fact, actually

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Speaker 2: his company, you know, the inner circle the execs within

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Speaker 2: bad Boy Records were referred to as Hitman. How interesting

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Speaker 2: is that kind of all tracks now that.

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Speaker 3: We're sort of fearing manifests?

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Speaker 2: What you focus on manifests perhaps, and you know, look,

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Speaker 2: you know we talk a lot about Diddy today, but

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Speaker 2: he does have kind of an interesting backstory in terms of,

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Speaker 2: you know, where he comes from. He know, born in

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Speaker 2: New York. He lost his father at two years old.

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Speaker 2: Allegedly his dad was involved with some sort of organized

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Speaker 2: drug crimes and he was shot and killed in Central

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Speaker 2: Park When did he was just two years old? So

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Speaker 2: he was essentially raised, you know by his mother, Janis,

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Speaker 2: who we've seen in the courtroom. She's larger than life

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Speaker 2: with those blonde wigs, and so much has been made

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Speaker 2: about their relationship, and you know, she's to always have

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Speaker 2: her nails, you know, manicure in a certain way, with

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Speaker 2: that very blush, pink or white nail polish that apparently

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Speaker 2: he would have all of the women in his life

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Speaker 2: specifically had to have the exact same nail care. And look,

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Speaker 2: she's been very devoted to him. It must be very

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Speaker 2: difficult to sit there behind your son and show such

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Speaker 2: a strong front. Again, she's also allowed his children, several

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Speaker 2: of which your daughters, be there to hear some of

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Speaker 2: this really agonizing testimony. It's complicated. What do you make

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Speaker 2: of that?

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Speaker 5: I have to feel, you say, it would be hard

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Speaker 5: to sit there and watch it, so for myself, I

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Speaker 5: have to agree. But and I'm gathering this just from

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Speaker 5: watching documentaries about P Diddy, I feel like his mother

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Speaker 5: is almost such his life force that she would be

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Speaker 5: almost just as enraged that this was being done to

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Speaker 5: her son. I really, I kind of That's the vibe

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Speaker 5: I get, is that's the purview that she would have

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Speaker 5: more so than oh, all these terrible things my son

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Speaker 5: allegedly did.

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Speaker 3: So that's my thought.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of hard to deny some of those tapes,

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Speaker 2: though you're seeing some of this stuff on the front line.

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Speaker 2: I guess the scoop of that is that it was consensual.

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Speaker 4: That's the Listen, I look at this completely different. Let's

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Speaker 4: hear it, because you know, I come from like a

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Speaker 4: true crime well I I come from like a crazy

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Speaker 4: true crime place, right, Like, I immediately go to he's

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Speaker 4: wanting to like be with his mother, well, you know,

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Speaker 4: like ed imply like ed Gean right, like how he

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Speaker 4: basically wanted to wear his mother's skin. You know, I

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Speaker 4: feel like Diddy like, especially with the nails. That is

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Speaker 4: such an interesting like piece for me, you know, and

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Speaker 4: as I sit here with like cream colored nails on

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Speaker 4: right now, I'm going to go change it as soon

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Speaker 4: as you're done. But it's such an interesting I feel

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Speaker 4: like he has some kind of you know, psychological Freudian

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Speaker 4: thing with mom, like one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: Well, like, listen, she you know worked hard. She was

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Speaker 2: a working single mother, and she applied. You know, she'd

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Speaker 2: likes to die for him. He has like a little

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Speaker 2: Madonna figure potentially. That's so interesting. We should have a

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Speaker 2: therapist on to kind of break down for us.

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Speaker 4: I want to talk to him anyway.

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Speaker 2: Listen to her credit, she got him, you know, out

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Speaker 2: of the city and then you know, he grew up

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Speaker 2: basically in the suburbs. And he gets the name Puff

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Speaker 2: apparently from in high school when he was acting all

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Speaker 2: puffed up, like he would act a little tough because

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Speaker 2: he was like a slim, nice kid being raised in

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Speaker 2: a you know, a middle class neighborhood. It doesn't really

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Speaker 2: have the same like air quotes gangster vibe that I

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Speaker 2: think he perpetuates or likes to perpetuate. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: he went to Howard, you know, he went to a

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Speaker 2: wonderful school. Howard's a great school, amazing school, highly and

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Speaker 2: those are.

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Speaker 4: Things that like Tupac like would call him out for,

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Speaker 4: like kind of like being a poser, like hit him up.

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Speaker 4: That's the famous you know call up to bad boy

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Speaker 4: records from Tupac. Right, Likeac, Tupac knew who Puff was, right,

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Speaker 4: Tupac knew it. And I fell Listen, I'm all about

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Speaker 4: the Tupac trial. It's happening, by the way, in February

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Speaker 4: of twenty twenty six in Vegas.

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Speaker 3: It all seems crazy.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to be reporting on scene. Okay, this is

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Speaker 4: going to be my assignment. I can't wait. I can't

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Speaker 4: wait for it.

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Speaker 2: And it's significant because that trial, which you know, not

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Speaker 2: to jump around too too much. But it's relevant because

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Speaker 2: Tupac's death, which you know, was you know, you've all

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Speaker 2: heard about this. It was a major moment in music history.

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Speaker 2: Tupac was traveling with sug Night, infamously who's been you know,

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Speaker 2: giving a lot of interviews from behind bars. It was

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Speaker 2: the two of them in a car and they were,

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Speaker 2: you know, basically shot and killed. At least Tupac was

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Speaker 2: by a drive by car. And in that regard this

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Speaker 2: new trial, his name is Keith d and he basically

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Speaker 2: says that his words, not ours that did he paid

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Speaker 2: a million bucks to have Tupac killed. So there is

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Speaker 2: sort of a major piece of Diddy in that trial

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Speaker 2: to come as well.

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Speaker 4: I can't wait for that, Fortney. What's going on with

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Speaker 4: Kieren Read.

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Speaker 5: It's day twenty nine in the retrial of Karen Read.

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Speaker 5: It's been a long road and it could be a

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Speaker 5: road that's ending, as she said, as soon as tomorrow, body,

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Speaker 5: which I couldn't.

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Speaker 4: Even Oh, I can't imagine it's going to be.

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Speaker 3: I think it's going to be like Thursday, Yeah, she

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Speaker 3: whatever it is.

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Speaker 5: Reid has told reporters that she does expect that her

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Speaker 5: team to do rest their case this week, and there

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Speaker 5: were a lot of different testimonies today. To very briefly

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Speaker 5: catch people up. Karen Reid is on a retrial for

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Speaker 5: allegedly running over her boyfriend, police officer John O'Keeffe with

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Speaker 5: her SUV after a night of drinking. Her defense is

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Speaker 5: that knows she is being framed by other police officers,

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Speaker 5: that some kind of altercation happened and he was somehow

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Speaker 5: beat up, ended up dead and she was framed.

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Speaker 3: So that's what's happening.

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Speaker 5: So today we heard from doctor Elizabeth Laposada I believe

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Speaker 5: it is forensic pathologist, and she testified that O'Keefe's fatal

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Speaker 5: head injuries were con with a backward fall onto potentially

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Speaker 5: a ridge surface, so that could be something that happened

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Speaker 5: inside of a house versus by a vehicle's tail light.

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Speaker 5: And she also indicated that there's a scalp laceration above

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Speaker 5: his right eye that could have been caused by a

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Speaker 5: fist or an object. I mean, we've all seen fighters

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Speaker 5: when you split your eyebrow, you know, yeah, and it

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Speaker 5: seemed like that was the kind of thing she was describing.

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Speaker 5: Another piece of testimony that I thought was really interesting

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Speaker 5: was John Tedman. He's a private investigator, and what he

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Speaker 5: did was interesting. He visited thirty four Fairview Road, and

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Speaker 5: that is the place where Karen Reid's defense teams suggests

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Speaker 5: John o'keef left karen Reads suv very alive and walked

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Speaker 5: into this home where police officers were gathered having a

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Speaker 5: very very boozy night, and that something happened. So he

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Speaker 5: took photos and did measurement points all around the house

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Speaker 5: and the entryway, particularly the garage, and suggested where John

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Speaker 5: O'Keefe could have been injured or where his body could

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Speaker 5: have been moved from prior to his body being found

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Speaker 5: in the snow. So his analysis, he wasn't setting it

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Speaker 5: out to prove John O'Keeffe was allegedly murdered. Here, he

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Speaker 5: was saying it was. She raised reasonable doubt that an

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Speaker 5: attack happened inside the house.

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Speaker 3: It could have.

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Speaker 5: And remember, guys, all she needs is reasonable doubt, right.

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Speaker 5: It's such a like expert versus expert. You know, it's

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Speaker 5: so interesting.

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Speaker 2: You put an expert forward and they say, yep, that's

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Speaker 2: totally true. It was a dog bite and he was

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Speaker 2: obviously killed in the house and placed outside. And as

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Speaker 2: a result, she's been framed. That's a rough one because

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Speaker 2: that doesn't it's hard to debate that when the next

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Speaker 2: expert on the other side says the exact same thing

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Speaker 2: but opposite, and you know, you're kind of left an

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Speaker 2: expert land. It's hard to decipher.

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Speaker 3: It really is.

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Speaker 5: And that also Another very recent testimony was Michael Wolf.

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Speaker 3: He came back on.

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Speaker 5: The stand which he had started his testimony on Friday,

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Speaker 5: and as an expert, he testified that the damage to

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Speaker 5: Karen Reid's suv right tail light appeared quote generally consistent

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Speaker 5: with having a drinking glass thrown at it, but not

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Speaker 5: having struck a person. So that's important because there is

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Speaker 5: video evidence of the night of the murder or the accident.

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Speaker 5: You know, John O'Keeffe's losing his life, that he was

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Speaker 5: walking out of a bar with a glass. So if

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Speaker 5: there was an altercation, did he throw his glass at

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Speaker 5: the tail light instead of the suv backing into him?

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's a big piece of it. I think it's

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Speaker 2: really when you boil it down, it's what's up with

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Speaker 2: the dog bites? What's the reality led that dog alleged

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Speaker 2: ledged ledge If only we had the dog to do

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Speaker 2: a proper imprint of its mouth seems just it just

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Speaker 2: seems strange that the dog is nowhere to be found. Talk,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe that's just terrible timing. And yes, this

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Speaker 2: sort of tomato tomato of headlights. Was it a human

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Speaker 2: or was it a glass?

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Speaker 4: Though?

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Speaker 2: Seem so different to me that it's kind of shocking

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Speaker 2: that a person's life is kind of in limbo just

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Speaker 2: based on which expert you believe the most.

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Speaker 5: But that does seem what it's boiling down to, It

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Speaker 5: really does. And ps, you said maybe the dog's disappearance

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Speaker 5: was a fluke or something. I don't know, Stephanie. It

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Speaker 5: raises every hackle I have that Chloe the German Shepherd

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Speaker 5: no longer is where she lived, and if she was

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Speaker 5: allegedly part of this, you know.

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Speaker 2: Can we get Chloe the Shepherd back, Like, can we

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Speaker 2: just find out?

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Speaker 3: Sure, Lovely, is there not a phone we can call

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Speaker 3: to just one crime?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you know anything about Chloe's whereabouts, but it

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Speaker 2: can't see as though, that's like at the core of

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Speaker 2: a lot of what's being discussed. Is this this you know,

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Speaker 2: sweet animal. Hopefully you know, hopefully that is something that

436
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 2: they can get to the bottom of.

437
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll see, well, maybe we'll find out this. So

438
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 4: coming up next, we're going to be talking about recently

439
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 4: released pages in Luigi Menngion's alleged manifesto, and in the

440
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 4: eleven o'clock hour, we're going to be discussing listen, perhaps

441
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 4: the King of Manifesto's manifesto Monday, the Unibomber. It's one

442
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 4: of my favorite cases. I can't wait to fill you in.

443
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 4: And it's missing Person Monday. We need your help solving

444
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 4: these cold cases. We'll be right back.

445
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 3: Keep it here. True Crime Tonight.

446
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 2: Lots to get to, but first we have a talk back,

447
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 2: so let's go to that first.

448
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 6: Hi, it's Cynthia. I just wanted to comment on the

449
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 6: Pdity trial. I'm just surprised no one has mentioned the

450
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 6: two words coerce of control in regards to Diddy and

451
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 6: his freak offs and everything else concerning what he's been

452
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 6: charged with. What are your thoughts?

453
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 4: That is such a good observation, right, because course of

454
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 4: control is basically, if for those that don't know, it's

455
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 4: a pattern of abuse. Yeah, and there it usually happens

456
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 4: in relationships, right Listen. I'm not an expert in this,

457
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 4: but from my understanding. It's kind of like the frog

458
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 4: in the pot, Like.

459
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: We're back to this poor frog that's forever getting more oiled.

460
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 3: But it's a slow burn.

461
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 4: It's a slow burn, and it you know, there's threats,

462
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 4: there's humiliation, intimidation, all kinds of things to basically isolating

463
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 4: to your victim, to completely control everything about them, right,

464
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 4: And I mean, according to testimony, this is what Diddy

465
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 4: has done.

466
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 2: And people really idolize him so much, like all of

467
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 2: these women seem to hold him at such high regard, right,

468
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 2: They all wanted to impress him, they all wanted to

469
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 2: be exclusive with him, they all seem to really want

470
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 2: more attention, more one on one time. We heard that

471
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 2: from Jane today. You know, she just really was hoping

472
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: to have this more intimate time with him, and every

473
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 2: time she tried to go down that path, he would

474
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 2: add more escorts or add another person. And you know, look,

475
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,479
Speaker 2: I sometimes we choose there's this great quote that I'll

476
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 2: for sure we're going to mess up right now, But

477
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 2: sometimes we choose a familiar hell to an unfamiliar heaven,

478
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: meaning we just get used to this behavior, and it

479
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 2: is it's a drip, drip, drip, and suddenly you do

480
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 2: know that you're the frog all of a sudden, and

481
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: you can see how that happens. And this is such

482
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: a kind of a masterclass on what that is.

483
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 4: Right, So really good, really good observation. Cynthia, thank you

484
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 4: for leaving us a talk back. For those that don't know,

485
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 4: all you have to do is open up the iHeartRadio app,

486
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 4: find the True Crime Tonight podcast and then click on

487
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 4: one of the episodes and just leave us a little

488
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 4: message by using the little microphone button. It's really simple,

489
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 4: really easy, and we'll play it on the show. Yeah,

490
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 4: so I'm gonna jump right into Luigi go for burn

491
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 4: in time.

492
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 3: So let's do it.

493
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 4: Meet Luigi Manifesto.

494
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 3: Listen.

495
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 4: Stephanie said, I was like the expert on the manifestos. No,

496
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 4: I'm definitely not manifesto. I'm not a manifesto, butod I'm

497
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 4: obsessed with manifesto. I think they're so interesting because Okay,

498
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 4: so a manifesto is basically a way for somebody that's

499
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 4: done something to communicate why they're doing it right. And

500
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 4: I'm going to get into this later in another segment

501
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 4: about the unibomer, but there's also a violence manifesto, and

502
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 4: that's basically basically making excuses for why you've committed violence. Okay,

503
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 4: and this is a term that was created by like

504
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 4: accredited people in criminal sciences and whatnot. So Luigi has

505
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 4: left a manifesto, and you know, when he got arrested,

506
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 4: we got a little piece of it and it was

507
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 4: pretty it was pretty interesting. But there's more and we

508
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 4: just just got more pieces of this manifesto, more pieces.

509
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 3: So for those who.

510
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 4: Don't know anything about Luigi, he faces eleven charges in

511
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 4: New York State, the most serious being first degree murder

512
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 4: as an act of terrorism. He faces for federal charges,

513
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 4: including murder through the death of a firearm, which unfortunately

514
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 4: carries a federal death sentence. So I think they're personally

515
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 4: using the death penalty federally to get him to plead,

516
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 4: because I think the last thing the system wants is

517
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 4: a public trial in this. I really do, really like,

518
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 4: oh yeah, well, because the ideas in the manifesto are

519
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 4: so revolutionary, and if you're discussing these things in a

520
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 4: court of law where people have you know, access to

521
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 4: hear them and maybe themselves get radicalized or even be like,

522
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 4: you know what, He's right, this is crap. Then it's dangerous.

523
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 4: Like the same reason that they did. They did the

524
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 4: same thing to Ted to Kazynski. They you know, wanted

525
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 4: him to uh he was being charged federally and they

526
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 4: wanted him to plea and is his lawyers wanted him

527
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 4: to plead insanity and he was like, no, I'm not crazy.

528
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 4: My ideas are important and they need to be discussed.

529
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 4: And so the idea of manifesto is you have all

530
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 4: these important ideas and the only way you can get

531
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 4: people to listen to you is by violent being violent.

532
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 4: But that's what discredits the idea, right, It's.

533
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 3: Right kind of circular reasoning.

534
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:05,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, right.

535
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: My understanding of a manifesto was that it had to

536
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 2: be some like prolific moment of poetry and intention.

537
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: Doesn't that show guilt? Also?

538
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 4: Yeah? Well sure, and and certainly with Luigi's the new

539
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 4: pieces we've got, it certainly points to that.

540
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 3: Right.

541
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 4: So here's some things. Here's some quotes. Okay, again, Luigi's

542
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 4: being charged with basically gunning down the CEO of United Healthcare,

543
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 4: Brian Thompson. Okay, and here are some of the quotes

544
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 4: from the manifesto. I'm just going to read them. Verbatim. Okay,

545
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 4: say what you want to rebel against the deadly green

546
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 4: fueled health insurance cartel? Do you bomb the headquarters?

547
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 3: No?

548
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 4: Bombs equals terrorism, so he was he was recognizing he

549
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 4: could get a terrorism charge for bombing the irony. Instead,

550
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 4: one should whack the CEO at the annual parasitic being

551
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 4: counter convention. It's target and precise and will not risk innocence.

552
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 4: So that's interesting. So he he recognized like basically Ted Kaczinski, right,

553
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 4: he recognized that Ted Kazinski had these incredible ideas, but

554
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 4: he was basically considered a terrorist because he was killing

555
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 4: innocent people by inordinately bombing the postal system and disgracing it.

556
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 4: So that was pretty interesting. Another one is the point

557
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 4: is made in the news headlines insurance ceo killed the

558
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 4: annual investor's conference. It conveys a greedy bastard that had

559
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 4: it coming.

560
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 3: Wow.

561
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: Wow, why would he put that in writing? So this

562
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 2: is all in his notebook that they found in his

563
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: backpack at the McDonald's.

564
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he was.

565
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 2: Ready to be caught if he had that notebook, because

566
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: the manifesto that I saw when his arrest first happened

567
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: was kind of a strong start. It had something really

568
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: important at the top, and then it really tailed off.

569
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: So this is excerpts from more things that were found more. Wow,

570
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: this one's to me very interesting. For example Ted K,

571
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: he's referencing the Eda Barmber. For example, ted k makes

572
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: some good points on the future of humanity, but to

573
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: make his point, he indiscriminately mails Bomb mail Bomb's innocence.

574
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: Normies categorize him as an insane serial killer and focused

575
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: on the act atrocities themselves and dismiss his ideas. And

576
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: I think this is a really accurate assessment because by

577
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: and large, critics acknowledge that Ted Kaczynski's manifesto raised like

578
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: pretty valid concerns about technology and society, but the violent

579
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 2: actions that he committed completely negates all those ideas and

580
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 2: discredits them. Yeah, and bodies something positive with that manifesto, Right,

581
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 2: Why does a manifesto have to end in death? Is

582
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: that always the case? Can I have a living manifesto?

583
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 3: Sure? Oh yeah, absolutely you can. But they don't get

584
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: any attention, right, nobody will listen.

585
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, yea.

586
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 3: I think he was insightful of Luigi.

587
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 5: I mean, he's right with the perception of quote the normies,

588
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 5: which would be I guess everyone who is not on

589
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 5: his perceived level of himself of seeing him as this

590
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 5: Robin Hood which we've talked about before, and well is

591
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 5: it Rolling Stone called him and he is seen as

592
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 5: a hero and heralded for that.

593
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 4: Right, people are selling candles.

594
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's goes fund Me is hundreds of thousands of dollars.

595
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean people have really Robin hooded him, right,

596
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 4: They've made him Saint Luigi. His face is adorning candles

597
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 4: with Saint Luigi on him. I mean, he's definitely being

598
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 4: put on a pedestal, and you know, his message is

599
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 4: resonating with a lot of people, and his messages is

600
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 4: that the healthcare are parasites. In fact, the one of

601
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 4: the later points that we have in the manifesto is

602
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 4: the target is insurance. It checks every box, which is

603
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 4: really interesting to me because it basically implies that he

604
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 4: had criteria right, like almost like he wanted to be

605
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 4: a martyr for something and eventually kind of whittled down

606
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 4: to insurance. And I kind of wonder what other kind

607
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 4: of industries was he looking at? What was his criteria?

608
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 4: What checklist did he have to check every box? What

609
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 4: other places, what other targets were there. I'll be so

610
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 4: comes out me too, and where do this.

611
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 3: Deep dive happen?

612
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: So we know when he was apparently having all of

613
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 2: these back issues. If you don't know, Luigi had a

614
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: surfing accident and he had to have a very terrible

615
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 2: back surgery. Apparently that caused him much pain. It's been

616
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: intimated that maybe that's caused some a mental disorder or

617
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: some sort of depression, perhaps because of the pain that

618
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: he was in. By the way, we've heard interviews with

619
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: his roommate at the time when he was living in Hawaii,

620
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: who said he was lovely and engaging and yes he

621
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: was in pain, but nothing would suggest he was capable

622
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: of something like murder. And that's kind of disturbing. You know,

623
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: his mom, We kind of went through their backstory a

624
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: little bit too, and his mom had filed a missing

625
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: person's report for him in November of twenty twenty four

626
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 2: in San Francisco, which is his last known place prior

627
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 2: to the murders, about a month later. So what does

628
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: that say. He obviously had lost contact with his family.

629
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: We saw a lot of social media posts of you know,

630
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: he had lots of cousins and family, etc. That had

631
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: been reaching out to him saying, hey, I haven't.

632
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 3: Heard from you in a while.

633
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: He seemed to have gone missing, you know, check in,

634
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: let us know that you're okay. And apparently those calls

635
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: were not being received or returned. And yeah, missing persons,

636
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 2: you know, report by mom before the holidays. That's a

637
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: real tell just in terms of where he's getting radicalized

638
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: or when this transition perhaps happened. Our body is giving

639
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: us the rundown on all things manifestos, both with Luigi

640
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: Mangione and with Ted Kaczinski, the You and Obomber, they

641
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: have some crossover. We also have some developing headlines for

642
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: the Night Courtney. You want to fill us in.

643
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, So there's new leads in the Travis Decker man

644
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 5: hunt and that has been prompting massive searches near the

645
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 5: Pacific Crest Trail.

646
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: Without going into any gory.

647
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 5: Details because this is a horrific crime, police in central

648
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 5: Washington state are still looking for thirty two year old Decker.

649
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 5: He's a man who they allege killed his three young

650
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 5: daughters and left them near a campground. This happened Monday,

651
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 5: May second. Now, the National Guard has been deployed in

652
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 5: this huge manhunt for Decker. He is in this moment

653
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 5: homeless and had searched quote how to relocate to Canada

654
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 5: just days before the girls went missing and he went missing.

655
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 5: The sheriff's office just said they're bringing in the federal

656
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 5: authorities to give them, give the sheriffs a break. They

657
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 5: have been working exhaustively. Now the sheriff, Yeah, they maintained

658
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 5: the lead investigation for the deaths, but the federal government

659
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 5: is heading up the search.

660
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 4: And that makes sense.

661
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, on all hands on deck, just we

662
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 3: need to find.

663
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 4: Have you seen the area? Have you looked at the

664
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 4: area in that it is really wooded, right, it seems

665
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 4: like it's like a forest, and I'm sure some of

666
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 4: it is like park lands and whatnot. So bringing in

667
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 4: the federal authorities to me, makes all the sense in

668
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 4: the world, especially if they possibly think he might have,

669
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 4: you know, snuck over to Canada. Right.

670
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 2: It seems like he probably snuck over to Canada, or

671
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: at least that's what he kind of thinking to believe

672
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: that's what his searches would suggest. He was apparently googling

673
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: and searching ways to you know, pick up and start

674
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: anew in Canada, which is of course very close to

675
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: the border there. So it is also implied that this

676
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 2: wasn't just a one off event in the moment that

677
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 2: he was and not to lose too much time on

678
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 2: this because it's so incredibly sad, but you know, according

679
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: to his Google searches and authorities for suggesting that he

680
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 2: was in fact planning this event and planning a getaway

681
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 2: potentially to Canada, so they have their work cut out

682
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: for them. Yeah, he is armed and dangerous potentially.

683
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 5: He absolutely, he is considered dangerous police in this moment

684
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 5: don't know if he's armed, but he also is really

685
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 5: well equipped to survive in those great wilderness you were

686
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 5: speaking about body. He has training, he went to survival school.

687
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

688
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 5: Anyone with any information is urged to call the nearest

689
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 5: US Marshall's office. The communications center's number is one eight

690
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 5: hundred three three six zero one zero two, and you

691
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 5: can also submit a tip to the I'm pronouncing it wrong,

692
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 5: Chilan County Sheriff's Office. I think you're saying it right, okay,

693
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 5: And we're going to put that link on our socials.

694
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 5: And there's been more than five hundred tips from the

695
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 5: public so far, and there is an award of twenty

696
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 5: thousand dollars.

697
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 3: Let's get this man found. Yeah, houdible tips.

698
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: And as a reminder too, he has some you know

699
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 2: health stuff. You know, he was supposed to be on medication.

700
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: We don't know if he was or if he is,

701
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 2: and that could make somebody very dangerous. So this is

702
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: a great opportunity for all of us to a put

703
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: our hearts out to the family and.

704
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 3: Mom who lost so much.

705
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: And then also if you see or have any information,

706
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: definitely reach out.

707
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 3: We'll be right back.

708
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: We have more true crime coming up where we're talking

709
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm here in some manifesto

710
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: chatter coming up next day with us. These manifestos are

711
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,439
Speaker 2: going to have a deep dive. So body, I hope

712
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 2: you are. You're excited and ready because first we have

713
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 2: to go to Justin and Blake.

714
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 3: I don't know if I can wait. Yeah, I know.

715
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 2: It's like a very quick update because we're shocked. I

716
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 2: was dumbfounded today when the news broke that. You know,

717
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 2: we talked about this earlier, you know, late last week,

718
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: that Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively case. If you haven't

719
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: been following it. It centers around that film. It ends

720
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 2: with us Blake Lively claimed sexual harassment and said that

721
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 2: Justin Baldoni, who was also the director and partners in

722
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 2: the studio making the movie, that he not only sexually

723
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 2: harassed her and made her feel uncomfortable, but created sort

724
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 2: of an uncomfortable work environment. She put a civil lawsuit together,

725
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 2: and then that civil lawsuit was reported upon in the

726
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: New York Times famously and that has snowballed into the

727
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 2: biggest lawsuit of all time. Justin Baldoni and his partner

728
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: again Justin's the director of the movie and his partner

729
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: at Wayfarer, who was also a very wealthy man. They

730
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: countersued Blake Lively very very quickly for four hundred million

731
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: dollars plus another to the New York Times. And really

732
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: their whole thing was defamation, right, So at its core

733
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: they felt that Blake Lively's civil complaint, which is very real,

734
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 2: and you know, he not only disputed that in the press,

735
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 2: but he also believed this is again Justin Baldoni is

736
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: the he that basically it was a smear campaign that

737
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 2: excerpts from this were being released to the press or

738
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 2: released to the New York Times even and therefore it

739
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 2: making Justin look very, very bad, even though he had

740
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 2: receipts to kind of combat her harassment suit, and that

741
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: he was basically retaliating because she had made these complaints

742
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: against him. So I don't know, if you did a

743
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: poll with any of us a week ago, it looked

744
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 2: like Justin Baldoni and the way for our team were

745
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: coming in for the win, essentially because Blake Lively and

746
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 2: her husband, Ryan Reynolds, who we've always been huge fans of,

747
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 2: have gotten a ton of bad press, and it was

748
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 2: seeming like the public at least was really pro Justin.

749
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 2: And you never know what happens until the judge makes

750
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: the decision. So today the decision was made, and it's

751
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 2: a huge win for Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds their harassment.

752
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 2: Her harassment civil lawsuit will still be heard by the

753
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 2: judge and that will be in March of twenty twenty six,

754
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 2: but the rest of it a lot of money don drain.

755
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: The judge did.

756
00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 4: Say that Baldoni could amend and refine file his counterclaims,

757
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 4: but he has to do so by June twenty third.

758
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 4: So here's here's the thing. And I would love to

759
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 4: talk to somebody with actual legal knowledge because I don't

760
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 4: have any right. Yes, but my understanding is is that

761
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 4: the judge is saying, listen, Valdoni, you counterclaimed with defamation right,

762
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 4: and you can't do that because she's not defaming you.

763
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 4: She filed a legally protected document where she's making allegations.

764
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 4: She's not going on like you know, Entertainment Tonight or

765
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 4: People magazine or Vanity Fair to do interviews in like

766
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 4: slandering you in any fashion. She just filed a document

767
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 4: that she's allowed to file and saying that this happened

768
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 4: while she was working for you. That's legally protected. I

769
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 4: guess the issue is, though, that the New York Times

770
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 4: ran this peace right but before the lawsuit was publicly

771
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 4: accessible on the docket, And I think that's the issue, right,

772
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 4: that's at.

773
00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 3: The root of it.

774
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: And like you know, they're claiming pr people were involved

775
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 2: in a smear campaign, which all sounds very interesting and

776
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: sexy and important and scary all at the same time.

777
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: But at its core, she was saying this was a

778
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: hostile work environment and I felt unsafe and I made

779
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: a complaint and that should be protected. And he doesn't

780
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 2: get to just like throw a bunch of resources and.

781
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 3: Money at it.

782
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 2: And it really has been this media frenzy. In this case,

783
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: it's been just popularity central between the two of them,

784
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 2: and we'll see.

785
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I think, honestly, it's really rich that

786
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 5: Baldoni is saying that Blake Lively and her husband Ryan

787
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 5: Reynolds were engaged in a spear campaign since he I don't.

788
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,479
Speaker 5: I mean, it's such a fact in my mind. I mean,

789
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 5: his pr There's been so many different correspondents where it's

790
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 5: literally like, yeah, light her up and we're gonna, you know,

791
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 5: turn the tides. And I feel like it's a matter

792
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 5: of fact that Justin Baldoni they were creating a spear

793
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 5: campaign against Blake Lively, that's what they were engaged in.

794
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: It kind of seems that way, right, Well, it's a

795
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 2: lot of money on the line. And by the way,

796
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 2: I think also at its core was that it ends

797
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 2: with us is the film, and that film is based

798
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 2: on a book series by the same name that is

799
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 2: highly regarded. People love it, I love it, And basically

800
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: Justin Baldoni and his partner were able to secure the

801
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: rights for that and those rights stay with them unless

802
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: there is some sort of complaint or something like a

803
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 2: sexual harassment allegation that would therefore put the rights in

804
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,439
Speaker 2: jeopardy and give permission to the author to redirect those

805
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 2: rights potentially to Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds for season

806
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: two or have That's like a real thing. I mean, again,

807
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,959
Speaker 2: this is not my opinion. This is just what's been read,

808
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: what I've read and has been said many times.

809
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 3: So at its core, was this a play.

810
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 2: To be able to get the rights back and by

811
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 2: filing a sexual harassment lawsuit civilly that really can't be

812
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 2: you know, refuted. It is what it is, right, it's

813
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: out there. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

814
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: Is this just strategy gone badly? Has Blake Lively just

815
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 2: gotten a bad rap? People really have jumped on her,

816
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 2: you know like that really at its core has made.

817
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 3: Her very unlikable.

818
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 2: Unlikable and Ryan Reynolds has been dragged into this as well,

819
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 2: and then Taylor Swift. It seems like the Taylor Swift

820
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 2: piece of it that might have been a pileon that

821
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 2: the judge wasn't having and was really essentially saying that

822
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: this lawsuit and.

823
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 3: The new York Times lawsuit was pretty baseless.

824
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 5: Well, and the judge also, obviously since he threw away

825
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 5: the New York Times, judge was not having that. To

826
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 5: use your words, Stephanie, and the judge's words were the

827
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 5: alleged facts indicate that the Times reviewed the available evidence

828
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 5: and reported, perhaps in a dramatized manner, what it believed

829
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 5: to have happened. The Times has no obvious motive to

830
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 5: favor Lively's version of events, like they were just doing

831
00:42:58,080 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 5: their job as reporters.

832
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but how did they get it?

833
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: How did they get it in the first place. I

834
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 2: guess this is a little I guess it doesn't matter though. Yeah,

835
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 2: somebody has to call us and.

836
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 4: Tell us the scoop please eight eight eight.

837
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 3: Three one crime. I got it, you didn't you.

838
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 2: Got it to no frog boiling right now. I would

839
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: love to do a little bit of a deep dive

840
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: into just the idea of what a smear campaign even is.

841
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: That sounds so diabolical and like only in Hollywood or

842
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 2: fancy celebrities could actually pull that off. But that was

843
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 2: also a big piece of Blake Lively's side of this.

844
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: She felt as though there had been this like onslaught

845
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 2: of bad press, frankly on social media, where people were

846
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 2: reposting interviews of Blake Lively from yesteryear where she appeared

847
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: unpleasant or was you know, not so friendly and not

848
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 2: so cozy, or you know, here she is, you know,

849
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: promoting a film that is based on domestic violence, and

850
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 2: she's talking about her other businesses that are completely unrelated.

851
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,280
Speaker 2: That maybe seemed a little tone deaf at the time,

852
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: but she got slammed for it, and she felt as

853
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: though Justin Baldoni and his partner were essentially coordinating a

854
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,240
Speaker 2: campaign against her and basically hiring people to be posting

855
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 2: all of this nasty stuff. And then it makes you think,

856
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: does that actually happen? And I know the answer is yes.

857
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: I could hear you all yelling at us right now.

858
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: Of course it is.

859
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 3: But it's terrible. How do you combat that?

860
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 5: I mean, it's money versus money versus money. But listen,

861
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 5: speaking of bad press, this, I think this is justin.

862
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 3: It just hit my radar, Jared Rido. I saw this,

863
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 3: Oh my, Jared, Jared Jared.

864
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 5: So listen, there was an expose. It was just published

865
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 5: in airmail a couple of days ago. This past Saturday,

866
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 5: and it contained interviews with nine different women, all accusing

867
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 5: Jared Ledo of sexual misconduct, many of them saying this

868
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 5: took place while they were still underage. O, so.

869
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 3: That's the thing.

870
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 4: Just like again that sounds Jordan Catalano.

871
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 3: Do you remember myself called life?

872
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 4: Do you remember that?

873
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? I've never seen it.

874
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: Some true confessions so good and true confession is also

875
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 2: a good one, and like, how do we reconcile that.

876
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 3: Let's just put that aside for let's talk.

877
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's put that, like even just putting the underage

878
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 2: piece aside. That's horrible and is that I guess this

879
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 2: also it's all about lawyers, right, and the perception of things,

880
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 2: like once that allegation is put into the press, you

881
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: really can't take it back. And I think that's scary.

882
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 2: You know. Again, if we're doing expose A's for example,

883
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 2: and we're we're naming victims, that should probably go to

884
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: a courtroom, right.

885
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 5: It seems like absolutely it should, depending upon what you know,

886
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 5: what the claims are. But in this moment, doesn't seem

887
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 5: like anyone is pressing charges. We certainly will be following

888
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 5: to see what develops, and maybe it's nothing or maybe

889
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 5: it is another big court case. I mean, listen, these

890
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 5: allegations they date back almost twenty or more than twenty

891
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 5: years to the early two thousands, and it's been called

892
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 5: a quote open secret that he texted sexual remarks to

893
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 5: teenage models and celebrities like James Gunn Yeah and Dylan

894
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 5: Spouse who have publicly commented on his predatory behavior before.

895
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 3: Oh oh dear, oh yeah, so this will be I believe.

896
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 3: Here's the thing.

897
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 4: I automatically believe them, the victim, I do, and I listen,

898
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,439
Speaker 4: I love Jared Little not anymore. I love Jared Letto,

899
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 4: not anymore. But I believe them. And I mean, if

900
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 4: it's untrue, that's terrible like that, I that I automatically

901
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 4: believe them, but I can't help that. I do.

902
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: I believe it, of course, and that's why it's out

903
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: there right. That's the spirit, and that's the goal. And

904
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 2: I'm just like you. Of course, if a woman comes

905
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 2: forward or a man that's nine, I have been, you know,

906
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 2: violated in some way, you know, of course, that requires

907
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: immediate attention. It's just you know, you can't take it back,

908
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,720
Speaker 2: and you know, people's lives really do end as a result.

909
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 2: I mean we've seen this, even going back to a

910
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 2: previous story with Ditty, This whole Ditty case broke open

911
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: because Cassie vintor, his ex girlfriend, put together a civil

912
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 2: lawsuit knowing that that would actually be public records so

913
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 2: she can put her accounts of these freak offs and

914
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: things in a document that can be now released to

915
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 2: the press, which really cracked this case open. And it's

916
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: also a workaround so you don't have to be beholden

917
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 2: to your non disclosure agreement that everybody really.

918
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 3: Has to sign.

919
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 2: So that's very disappointing to hear, and I'm really sad

920
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 2: to hear it.

921
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 4: I would I would expect charges to be filed because like,

922
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 4: why would they bring it up otherwise, right.

923
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 5: And the allegations, I mean, they're they're pretty gnarly. They

924
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 5: include pursuing girls who were under eighteen when he was

925
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 5: in his thirties. There's nudity, there's excuse me being masturbation

926
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 5: in front of young girls without their consent. No, yeah,

927
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 5: it gets it gets really dark, terrible, but listen, stick around.

928
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 3: We have much more to dig into.

929
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 4: So body let it rip, Okay, like I've been waiting

930
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 4: still Monday I've been waiting for this moment. This is

931
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 4: like my moment, right, my special interests. Right, So listen,

932
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 4: I love a manifesto And one of the reasons I

933
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 4: like manifestos is I'm super into forensic linguistics, all right,

934
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 4: And forensic linguistics is kind of like within the last

935
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 4: couple of decades really making headway at the FBI to

936
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 4: like find people based on manifestos or letters they write things,

937
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 4: you know, because sometimes killers will write letters. We have

938
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 4: a list of killers that did this, you know, like

939
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 4: Jack the Ripper famously wrote letters to people, the Zodiac Killer. Right,

940
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 4: there's all Kings of Killers, Son of Sam, Charles Manson, BTK,

941
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 4: Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer. So there's this developing

942
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 4: science of forensicallyistics, and I find it really fascinating, specifically

943
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 4: because the things that I focus on when I'm like

944
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 4: doing my sleuthing work is crimes that appear on the Internet,

945
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 4: and internet communication is typically written, right, excuse me. So

946
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 4: I find the idea of forensic linguistics to be super fascinating.

947
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 4: So what is a manifesto. A manifesto is just like

948
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 4: a public statement that explains like what a person or

949
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 4: a group believes in what their intentions are and what

950
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 4: they want to do.

951
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 3: That's just.

952
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 4: And anybody can have a manifesto. A company can have

953
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 4: a manifesto an organization like an about page, you know,

954
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 4: that's basically a manifesto. But there's a different kind of

955
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 4: manifesto and it's called targeted violence manifesto. And that was

956
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 4: coined by Julia Kupper, who is a forensic linguistic analysis analyst.

957
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:53,280
Speaker 4: I can't even spot speak right now. I'm so excited,

958
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 4: I am. I'm like so nervous and excited to talk

959
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 4: about my special address. Well, her and Jay Re Maloy,

960
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 4: who's a forensic psychologist, came up with this term targeted

961
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 4: violence manifesto. And that's the kind of manifesto that like

962
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 4: Luigi wrote, like some school shooters like Dylan Roof oh right,

963
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, yeah, the guy in uh what's his name,

964
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 4: Elliott Roger? Oh sorry, yeah, Santa Barbara the in cell.

965
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 4: He gets compared to Brian Coberger quite a bit actually, right.

966
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 4: So the idea is that you know, you get a manifesto,

967
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 4: it's usually many many words that can be dissected and

968
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 4: you know how like you have like regional dialect like

969
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 4: my dad, for instance, he says orange instead of orange

970
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 4: because he's from Pennsylvania, like an area of Pennsylvania. That

971
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 4: that's how they say orange. They say orange.

972
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 2: Orange, or pop versus soda.

973
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,439
Speaker 4: Right. Like those kinds of things can like determine where

974
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 4: a person lives or where they grew up. Right, So

975
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 4: basically they were looking for or water instead of water.

976
00:50:59,280 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 3: Right.

977
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 4: Basically when they're looking at these manifestos, they're looking for

978
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 4: the water. They're looking for those kinds of things. Well,

979
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 4: one of the reasons I'm interested in manifestos is Luca

980
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 4: from you know, Jonier Kats because all of my communication

981
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 4: with Luca was via writing online and I would have

982
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 4: to find like all of his fake accounts and I

983
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 4: would authenticate them using really layman's terms. I was very

984
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 4: aware of the unibomber and how they caught him, and

985
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:29,959
Speaker 4: I'm going to get into that, and I use those

986
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 4: techniques to find Luca's accounts, and that's how I could

987
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 4: authenticate them. Because he always spelled the same word wrong,

988
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,320
Speaker 4: always like he could not spell it, and he used

989
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 4: that word a lot, and the word was probably.

990
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 3: He would always spell it wrong, and it was a

991
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 3: had hard word.

992
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 5: Is it almost like so forensic linguistics, is it almost

993
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 5: likening writing to someone's fingerprint.

994
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good way of putting in the court.

995
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 4: I think that's a really Yeah, it's like they're voice.

996
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 4: Everybody has a unique writing voice, you know, like sentence

997
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,879
Speaker 4: structure of punctuation. Another thing Luca did was he could

998
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 4: never really get the idea of punctuation. He always did

999
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 4: it very weird and very uniquely. So I was able

1000
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 4: to say, okay, this is definitely a lucask account. And

1001
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,439
Speaker 4: you know I kept these things quiet in our little

1002
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 4: group privately, so he didn't know that I was observing

1003
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 4: those things, right, Like that's really important. Okay, when it

1004
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 4: comes to the unibomber though, do you guys, have you

1005
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 4: guys ever heard the the term you can have your

1006
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,399
Speaker 4: kit you you can't have your cake and eat it too?

1007
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 3: Why not? Yes? Sure of course the frog and the

1008
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 3: boiler and it has cake. It's an idiom's test time.

1009
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 4: Well that's how they caught him. Was this this this proverb.

1010
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 4: So it's not you can't have your cake and eat

1011
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 4: it too. That's not it. We we've been saying it

1012
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 4: wrong all this time. It's can't it's suppose used to

1013
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 4: be you can't eat your cake and have it too,

1014
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 4: because you can't eat it and also possess it at

1015
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 4: the same time. Right, once you eat it, it's gone.

1016
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 4: So the correct way to say this is you can't

1017
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 4: eat your cake and have it too. And what happened

1018
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,720
Speaker 4: was they the unibomber and he, you know, he mailed

1019
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:22,399
Speaker 4: packages to people and technology because he was very against technology.

1020
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 4: He thought technology in the Industrial Revolution was disconnecting humans

1021
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 4: from other humans. Okay, so he would target like technology executives,

1022
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 4: you know, airplanes, things like.

1023
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 3: That body that's so interesting.

1024
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you again, just to recap, you can't have

1025
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 4: your cake and eat it too, is how we've been

1026
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 4: saying it for years. But the correct way to say

1027
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 4: it is you can't eat your cake and have it too.

1028
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,280
Speaker 4: And a lot of people don't use it, and barely

1029
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 4: anybody uses it correctly. Right, So what happened was te

1030
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 4: Kozinski wrote like letters to a ton of people, like

1031
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 4: for decades, trying to get this manifesto published. Well, finally

1032
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 4: the FBI agreed to publish the manifesto and do it

1033
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 4: in the Washington Post. And they did it because they

1034
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 4: were hoping They were hoping somebody would recognize the ideas

1035
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 4: present presented in the manifesto and say, you know that

1036
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 4: kind of sounds like my cousin, you know who, that

1037
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 4: guy is kind of crazy and you know whatever, Well,

1038
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 4: that's not what happened. Well it kind of is kind

1039
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 4: of is what happened. So what happened was they published

1040
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 4: a manifesto and David Kaczinski, Ted's brother, recognized the ideas,

1041
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 4: but specifically recognized that in the manifesto it said as

1042
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 4: for the negative consequences of eliminating industrial society, well you

1043
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 4: can't eat your cake and have it too.

1044
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 3: And he said this also in a letter to his mother.

1045
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 4: Okay, so that's what really brought So that's what really

1046
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 4: brought the unibomber down. Wow, is this other specific phrase,

1047
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 4: you can't eat your cake and have it too? And

1048
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 4: so what they did was the FBI went started going

1049
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 4: through the manifesto and comparing it to letters to David

1050
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 4: Kazinsky and of course Ted Kezinki's mother, and the same

1051
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 4: set in structure, the same words were used, the same

1052
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,399
Speaker 4: idioms everything, and also the same ideas. Right because Ted

1053
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 4: Kazinski famously lived in that little cabin in Montana. He

1054
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 4: had rejected industrial life and he was basically saying, you know,

1055
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 4: we are way too, way too dependent on technology. We

1056
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 4: got to get basically, we have to get our feet

1057
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:36,359
Speaker 4: in the grass. It connect to humanity, wasn't wasn't Ted

1058
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 4: Kaczinsky did. Did the forensic linguistic experts Were they also

1059
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 4: looking at his academic work because he wasn't academic he was, Yes, absolutely,

1060
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 4: he was a professor of math like he was. This

1061
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 4: guy was a brilliant guy. He went to Harvard and

1062
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 4: he was a professor at Berkeley. I mean, he wasn't

1063
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 4: no slouch. And unfortunately the ideas presented in his manifesto

1064
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 4: are completely discredited because he killed so many innocent people.

1065
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 4: And you know, the message gets lost, right, and the

1066
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 4: message is, you know, again, the industry of revolution has

1067
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 4: really disconnected us from being human. In fact, it's very

1068
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 4: interesting because he warned us of all this technology right

1069
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 4: well recently AI Right, everybody's using it.

1070
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 3: Everybody using it?

1071
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 4: Did you guys know that they do all these safety

1072
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 4: checks on AI? Okay, And recently a recent safety test

1073
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:35,439
Speaker 4: was conducted by a company named Paliside Research, and they

1074
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 4: told AI complete all these one of the models, complete

1075
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 4: all these assignments, and then when you're done, shut down.

1076
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 4: AI fought back. It said no, it said no, and

1077
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 4: it would not shut down. And this is the kind

1078
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,919
Speaker 4: of thing that Ted Kaczinski would literally freak out about.

1079
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 4: I mean, he's gone now, he's passed away. Well, these

1080
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 4: are the things that he kind of warned us about. Yeah, AI,

1081
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 4: AI save us, So what are we going to do?

1082
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 2: Like, that's very harrowing thought. I feel like I've seen

1083
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 2: that in a scary movie. That's very I don't even

1084
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 2: know the movie top of head.

1085
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 5: It's like I feel like we're in a nineteen eighties

1086
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 5: sci fi in Space Invaders.

1087
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 3: The guy the.

1088
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 4: Diet paliside Research, his name is Jeffrey Lattish. He's just

1089
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 4: as like a little bit of comfort. He said, it's

1090
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 4: great that we're seeing warning signs before the system becomes

1091
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 4: so powerful that we can't control them.

1092
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's reassuring or no.

1093
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 2: But it is a good little gut check. And it's

1094
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 2: nice that they forget they're doing these safety checks. But

1095
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 2: I guess that's the genies, Like not in the bottle

1096
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 2: any longer, Right, it's here, It's potentially here to stay.

1097
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 2: Who's controlling what?

1098
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 5: I guess it's well, it begs the question of the

1099
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 5: testing and who you know, who is doing that, because

1100
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 5: what is your intention?

1101
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 3: Is it good or evil? And oh it just came

1102
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 3: to me war games is.

1103
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 4: That's like a perfect in cancer encapsulation of Ted Kaczynski's fear.

1104
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 4: You know, we all of our decision making, specifically decision making.

1105
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 4: He was terrified that decision making was going to be

1106
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 4: left up to machines and not people. And look at

1107
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 4: AI is doing that for us, right. AI is making

1108
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 4: decisions on healthcare famously with United Healthcare, is making decisions

1109
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 4: on moderation, on social media.

1110
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 3: It's doing it's.

1111
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,439
Speaker 4: Making a lot of decisions so humans and to make Yeah, yeah,

1112
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 4: so I mean, listen, he was absolutely a horrible person.

1113
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 4: He killed He killed three people and injured countless others,

1114
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 4: and he terrified the nation by using the postal service,

1115
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 4: the one thing that we trust, right, you put a

1116
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 4: stamp on a letter, you trust it's going to get

1117
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 4: to the person. It's a very trusted thing. And he

1118
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 4: messed with that and ruined you know, the he ruined

1119
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 4: his message.

1120
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 5: Body thank you for jumping my IQ up a couple

1121
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 5: of points tonight that was so fascinating.

1122
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:51,439
Speaker 3: Stick around.

1123
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 5: We've got so much more to dig in missing person Monday.

1124
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 5: We need you to help us out. And we've got

1125
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 5: more on the courtroom, players in the care Karon Reid retrial.

1126
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 5: That and more true crime tonight. We're talking true crime

1127
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 5: all the time.

1128
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, Karen Reid Courtney, where should we continue unpacking this?

1129
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 5: Okay, there is so much, especially with such a short

1130
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 5: amount of time. Whether it's tomorrow or the end of

1131
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 5: this week, that's when it ends. But listen, the mistrial.

1132
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 5: The first trial ended on July one, twenty twenty four,

1133
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 5: and that was after twenty seven hours of deliberation and

1134
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 5: being starkly.

1135
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 3: Divided with the jurors.

1136
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 5: So that's less than one year ago that this happened,

1137
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 5: and the jury unanimously found Karen Reid not guilty of

1138
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 5: second degree murder and leaving the scene of a personal injury. However,

1139
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 5: they hung they could not come to an agreement the

1140
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 5: charge of manslaughter while operating under the influence.

1141
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 3: So that's where it's. Yeah, that's where it ended.

1142
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 2: I was going to say one edition after that, particular

1143
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 2: after Karen Reid's first trial there were some jurors that

1144
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 2: came out and spoke to the press after the you know,

1145
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 2: hung jury occurred, and they claimed that the jury was

1146
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 2: unanimous in two of the three charges, not all of them,

1147
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 2: thus the hung jury, but on two counts they were unanimous.

1148
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 2: And then of course Karen Reid's defense attorney was like,

1149
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 2: that seems like foul ball if those two charges are

1150
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 2: off the table. Otherwise it's like double jeopardy. And then

1151
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 2: the judge was like, that's not how it works and

1152
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 2: basically shut that down. But just some contexts as we

1153
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 2: enter into this you know, recap of this current.

1154
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 4: Trial, could she get another miss trial?

1155
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 3: What a great question.

1156
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 5: I don't know why not. There's not I mean, if

1157
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 5: the jury hangs again, if they can't come.

1158
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 2: To this, could you guysn't have much time. I mean

1159
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 2: you say a year, and it does seem like not

1160
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 2: a very long time ago, but a year. Can you

1161
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 2: imagine if you're in this scenario, this pressure cooker, you're

1162
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 2: the frog and the boil for an entire year. That's intense,

1163
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 2: Like even right now, knowing full well that the defense

1164
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 2: might rest or that you know, these jurors that you've

1165
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 2: been staring at for weeks now making eye contact with

1166
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 2: that they are going to decide your fate.

1167
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 3: Do they like you? Do they not like you?

1168
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 2: Are they compelled? Are they not compelled? You know there's

1169
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 2: so much talk about lexuses and you know how the

1170
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 2: car backed up, and you know engineering chatter. Is it

1171
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 2: too much or you know, is it just enough? Idilocks,

1172
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 2: goldilocks exactly well. And there have been some adjustments between

1173
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 2: the first trial and this trial.

1174
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 5: I guess we all live and learn. So there are

1175
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 5: fewer witnesses this time on both sides, and they're trimming

1176
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 5: if they want to tighten their narrative they saw how

1177
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 5: it played out, and also to avoid jury fatigue, so

1178
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 5: for example, there are fewer first responders and experts and

1179
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 5: having sat through some trials, and Stephanie most memorably was

1180
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 5: in piked in Ohio, which.

1181
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 3: Another manifesto by the way, speaking another time next Monday.

1182
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 5: But in that case, you know, the first responders really

1183
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 5: are there to set and say, okay, a body existed here,

1184
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 5: and if you have sort of seven of them, so

1185
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 5: you know there are much some people on the stand.

1186
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 5: And then also there have been some changes in the

1187
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 5: legal teams, so the prosecutor in the first trial was

1188
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 5: Assistant District Attorney Adam Lally, but now the retrial has

1189
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 5: been led by special Prosecutor Hank Brennan.

1190
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 3: Excuse me, I have marbles. Isn't he a guy that

1191
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 3: prosecuted like Whitey Bulger. That's exactly right. Yeah, that's exactly right.

1192
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 5: And then on the defense side, this is a kick

1193
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 5: to me. I don't know how this how this detail

1194
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 5: escaped me. But an attorney named Victoria George. She actually

1195
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 5: served as an alternate juror in the first trial of

1196
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 5: Karen Reid and was then added to the defense team,

1197
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 5: So right, I didn't know this, to be very clear,

1198
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 5: As an alternate she did not participate in the deliberations,

1199
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 5: but her perspective. Can you imagine how much that could

1200
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 5: help defense better understand the juror's perspective having literally sat

1201
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 5: in that chair.

1202
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 4: But she didn't participate in deliberations, so she doesn't know

1203
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 4: what they were talking about.

1204
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 3: That's correct.

1205
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 5: But she did sit as an alternate juror, so she

1206
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 5: saw the entire thing play out.

1207
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,959
Speaker 4: Oh, I didn't know that. I really didn't, And.

1208
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,959
Speaker 2: That really is some inside sourcing, right, So if ever

1209
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 2: you wanted to have some who knows the beehive. You

1210
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 2: would want that person that's coming in as an alternate

1211
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 2: to be on your team.

1212
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's kind of astounding. Yeah, interesting.

1213
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 5: And then a consistency is Judge Beverly Cannon, and she's

1214
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 5: still presiding over the case, which is common to keep

1215
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 5: the same judge, but she was. The defense actually tried

1216
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 5: to have her recuse herself. This was in July twenty

1217
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 5: twenty three. At the first trial. The defense claimed that

1218
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 5: she was impartial, and their argument was that online rumors

1219
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 5: and there was a pattern of bias in her rulings

1220
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 5: that might have led to the public doubting her fairness.

1221
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 2: She gives the best reactions, Honestly, it is a stage

1222
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 2: to be seen. If you haven't been watching along for

1223
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 2: any of it. It's like that inside the courtroom stuff,

1224
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 2: you know, she does. It's a show, right, You get

1225
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 2: to know all of the players by sitting there whole time.

1226
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, she she really does.

1227
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 5: She seems like the epitome of just a cool, collected,

1228
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 5: in charge judge.

1229
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 4: Everybody calls her antbev.

1230
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, she has sort of an antbev vibe, right, you know,

1231
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 2: she does sort of like she does make like facial

1232
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 2: expressions and stuff that you know, have gotten a lot

1233
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 2: of attention.

1234
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair.

1235
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 5: And now we're actually going to go into a missing

1236
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 5: person's case. What Yes, and we're trying to make missing

1237
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 5: persons Monday.

1238
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 3: Listen.

1239
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 5: There's so many people who do go missing. I mean,

1240
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 5: what is it, six hundred thousand. Yeah, their stats are

1241
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 5: pretty staggering every year. And we figure, you know, if

1242
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 5: we have the airtime, let's do whatever good we can,

1243
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 5: you know, to try and help get them found. Yeah,

1244
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 5: so this is a sad story. Christine Walters is twenty

1245
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 5: three years old at the time when she vanished back

1246
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 5: in November of two thousand and eight, and this is

1247
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 5: when she was visiting Humboldt County, California. And I don't

1248
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 5: know if either of you have been, but it's really

1249
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 5: sort of you call it beautiful, it's wonderful.

1250
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 3: It's beautiful out there.

1251
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 5: Christine was last seen in Eureka, California, and after being

1252
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 5: found naked and bleeding on a stranger's doorstep. Oh god, yeah,

1253
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 5: what a vulnerable state. At the time, she said that

1254
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 5: demons were after her and that she had been running

1255
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 5: naked through the forest for many hours. So police did

1256
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 5: the right thing and took her to a hospital, but

1257
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 5: she was released only four hours later. So at that time,

1258
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 5: her mother sent paperwork to help Christine Walters get a

1259
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 5: temporary ID to come back home to Wisconsin. She picked

1260
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 5: up the paperwork from a local copy shop, and that

1261
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 5: is the last place she was ever seen.

1262
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness. I wonder if she ever got her

1263
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 4: I'd probably not.

1264
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 5: I don't know, nobody, I mean, in this moment, without

1265
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 5: a trace, in this moment, nobody knows well.

1266
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 4: I mean, she was clearly exhibiting distress signals, right, Like

1267
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 4: she was thinking demons were chasing her, and she was

1268
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 4: naked and bloody. Right, there's something going on, right, I

1269
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 4: mean clearly.

1270
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 5: Absolutely, And prior to her disappearance, she was exhibiting signs

1271
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 5: of paranoia. And she was also discovered to be part

1272
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 5: of a Green Life Evolution cult, which yeah, it's yeah. Now,

1273
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 5: no suspects from the cult have been named, and it

1274
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 5: appears it was disbanded two years after Christine's disappearance. But

1275
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 5: something notable if that triggers anything.

1276
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 3: In anyone's you know mind.

1277
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 5: Right, And people believe she may have fallen victim to

1278
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 5: foul play. But really who knows, so her family wants

1279
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 5: her back. Christine would now be forty years old. She

1280
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 5: also goes by the names of Star Airy Star and

1281
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 5: Star Meadow. She is five foot two, about one hundred

1282
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 5: and fifteen pounds back in two thousand and eight, and

1283
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:24,639
Speaker 5: she does have a bluish green, bluish green eyes, strawberry

1284
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,680
Speaker 5: blonde hair, and a large green and purple iris tattoo

1285
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 5: on her on the back of her neck and a

1286
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 5: butterfly on her hip.

1287
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,640
Speaker 4: So that tattoo is very important to know, you know,

1288
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:38,560
Speaker 4: because that's not really something that you can change you

1289
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 4: very easily, right, Like, it's not like a hairstyle or

1290
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 4: you know, what she was wearing. The tattoo is important.

1291
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 4: I'm kind of wonder about this cult now, you said

1292
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 4: cult in my ears Burke done, just like everybody just

1293
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 4: got excited about the they did it answer here. They

1294
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 4: disbanded two years after she went, she disappeared. I wonder

1295
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 4: how long they were active.

1296
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. So I'd never heard this still reading.

1297
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, So it's the Green Life Evolution and they're an

1298
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:10,480
Speaker 5: environmental spiritualist group and they're known for shamanistic rituals ayahuasca

1299
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:16,960
Speaker 5: tea closing ceremonies, and which actually makes sense that up

1300
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 5: in the area where she was last seen sort of,

1301
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 5: the Humboldt area is very can be very spiritual, and

1302
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 5: you know a lot of crystals going on there well, looking.

1303
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 2: For missing persons cases. It's such a big piece of

1304
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 2: even what we're doing here, and you know, every night,

1305
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 2: this is a way to get the word out. And

1306
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 2: you know, we've seen the success of amber alerts and

1307
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 2: crowdsourcing for information, specifically where it comes to a missing person.

1308
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 2: So if you do have any information, please please reach

1309
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 2: out to us. We'll make sure it gets to the

1310
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:53,639
Speaker 2: right place. Or if you're missing somebody, you know, reach

1311
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 2: out to us too. You know, we are, you know,

1312
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 2: hopefully here to to create a swell so we can

1313
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 2: bring them home.

1314
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:04,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, I'm I'm you guys know that I'm really

1315
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 4: into the missing a murdered indigenous movement. It's like all

1316
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 4: we think about, yeah, yeah, and so I'm very interested

1317
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 4: in the missing person's cases, you know, all of course obviously,

1318
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 4: but particularly when it comes to disadvantage communities because they

1319
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 4: just don't get enough attention.

1320
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 3: I sure don't.

1321
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 5: They don't get enough attention and the missing person, like,

1322
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 5: the likelihood is so much higher if you're.

1323
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 3: A Native American woman. Where else do we go from here?

1324
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 2: I feel like there's cases this week that we're going

1325
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 2: to be tracking very very closely, Karen Reid, we all

1326
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 2: have to be on major watch for that. It could

1327
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 2: be this week that we might get a decision.

1328
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 3: Who knows. So we again, we want to.

1329
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,240
Speaker 2: Hear what you're thinking, So make sure you reach out

1330
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 2: eight eight eight three one crime and you know court.

1331
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 2: Where should we begin?

1332
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 5: Well, I there's a talk back that I want to

1333
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 5: get right into because my favorite part, and I think

1334
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 5: yours is hearing hearing from others, So let's play it.

1335
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,679
Speaker 7: Hey guys, my name is Julie so So I used

1336
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 7: to be such a huge fan of Diddy and I

1337
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 7: still like his music, but I feel really conflicted about

1338
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 7: it given all these terrible things that are coming out,

1339
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:10,720
Speaker 7: And I'm just so curious what your take is on

1340
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 7: fans that still admire his music even though they completely

1341
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,679
Speaker 7: hate all the actions that are coming to life.

1342
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,719
Speaker 3: Such a good question. That's a loaded one.

1343
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 4: You know, we just kind of experienced that when we

1344
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 4: were talking about Jared Letto, you know, like, oh not

1345
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 4: Jared Letto.

1346
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 3: You know, like it's so hard.

1347
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 4: My girlfriend is she's very into Kanye, like loves Kanye,

1348
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 4: and you know, given all the things that he's been

1349
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 4: tweeting and whatnot and what not, She's like, I just

1350
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 4: have to cut him off. I can't be a fan

1351
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 4: of Kanye anymore. Yeah, And I kind of feel the

1352
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 4: same way about Ditty. I do, and listen, I'm a

1353
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 4: fan of Ditty's music too, But you know, I kind

1354
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:50,680
Speaker 4: of dealt with this one. Michael Jackson. You know, I

1355
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 4: was like, oh my god, what am I going to do?

1356
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 4: And you just kind of have to Okay, I'm not

1357
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 4: supporting that any That's how I am. I'm very black

1358
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:01,280
Speaker 4: and white. Even if Diddy he is found not guilty,

1359
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 4: the allegations made toward him and corroborated by like what

1360
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:08,760
Speaker 4: I believe to be credible evidence in people, some of

1361
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:11,599
Speaker 4: it is true, and I'm just not in a position

1362
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 4: that I want to support him in any way.

1363
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 2: And even just seeing that violent video of him abusing

1364
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 2: Cassie Ventur at the end, I mean, or at that hotel,

1365
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 2: that alone makes it kind of a game over. But

1366
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:25,880
Speaker 2: it's a really fair question, it is, And we were

1367
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 2: all ditty fans back in the day, and that is

1368
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 2: so done for me too. I think I'm probably the

1369
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 2: opposite of you, who's very black and white. I live

1370
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 2: in the gray a lot, and you know, try to

1371
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:39,479
Speaker 2: give the benefit of the doubt, but there's no benefit

1372
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 2: and that this is a violent offender who has very

1373
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 2: little regard for.

1374
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:45,880
Speaker 3: Women or frankly anybody around him.

1375
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:48,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, if what's being said in court is true, I

1376
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 5: kind of view him as Michael vick Ooh you guys,

1377
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 5: remember he was an NFL football player who then was

1378
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:02,719
Speaker 5: charged of having dog fighting and just the most hideous,

1379
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:06,680
Speaker 5: horrendous abuse possible. And in that instance, you know, I

1380
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 5: don't care how fast and far someone can run. I

1381
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 5: think they should be not applauded at all. I mean,

1382
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 5: I think they should be put in a cage.

1383
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 2: Sometimes I worry too, because we do talk so much

1384
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:21,639
Speaker 2: about these cases or the people that are on trial.

1385
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 2: Number one, I hate cancel culture first and foremost, I

1386
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 2: just do. I think we all have to give it's

1387
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:29,760
Speaker 2: a fit of the doubt a bit, but we can't

1388
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 2: escape what we've been seeing and what we've actually seen

1389
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:37,719
Speaker 2: as hardcore evidence, because oof, the two just don't meet

1390
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 2: the public life and the private life. They have to

1391
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:42,640
Speaker 2: be in some sort of alignment. Well, we're going to

1392
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:45,600
Speaker 2: have to continue the Diddy coverage tomorrow obviously, you know,

1393
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 2: big day of testimony. It's set to be explosive of

1394
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 2: all Jane continuing, Jane is not continuing. They have a

1395
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:53,360
Speaker 2: new stretch, and we're going to also hear you know,

1396
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 2: he's still craven that mistrial. And then of course Karen Reid,

1397
01:13:57,760 --> 01:13:59,759
Speaker 2: you know, this could be the week that the defense

1398
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:03,599
Speaker 2: guests and the jury goes into deliberation last time, as

1399
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 2: Courtney just shared, you know, twenty seven hours, that's pretty quick.

1400
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 2: We definitely want to hear your opinions, so make sure

1401
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 2: you join us tomorrow. We're here Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,

1402
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 2: two hours live. This is True Crime Tonight where we

1403
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 2: talk true crime all the time.

1404
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:21,599
Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us. Good night, Join us

1405
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 3: Sundays too. Sundays