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Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.

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Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Elisa Donovan.

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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here, and this is Killer Thriller.

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Speaker 1: Some true crime cases fade from the headlines. Others become

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Speaker 1: part of our collective memory. The disappearance of Natalie Holloway

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Speaker 1: is one of those cases. In two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: the eighteen year old vanished during a high school graduation

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Speaker 1: trip to Aruba, setting off an international investigation and leaving

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Speaker 1: her family searching for answers for nearly two decades. Even

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Speaker 1: after a confession in twenty twenty three, many questions and

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Speaker 1: emotions remain. Today we are joined by actress Amy Gumminick,

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Speaker 1: who portrayed Natalie in the two thousand and nine Lifetime

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Speaker 1: movie Natalie Holloway. We'll talk about the responsibility of bringing

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Speaker 1: a real victim to life, the emotional weight of stepping

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Speaker 1: into such an iconic case while it was still unfolding,

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Speaker 1: and how Amy looks back on the film now that

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Speaker 1: so much more is known. Amy, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for being with me today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I have to say this movie, I mean, the entire

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Speaker 1: case is so upsetting that it's hard to talk about.

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Speaker 1: But this was one of your very first major roles,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, what an incredible responsibility to have to

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Speaker 1: portray this woman whose disappearance, I mean it captured the

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Speaker 1: world's attention and it still wasn't solved at the time.

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Speaker 1: So do you even remember, I know this was a

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Speaker 1: bunch of years ago, but do you remember your reaction

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Speaker 1: when you learned that you were cast as Natalie?

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Speaker 2: I do, even just hearing you say that gives me

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Speaker 2: the chills. It was I think one of my very

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Speaker 2: first auditions ever straight out of college. Oh I remember

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Speaker 2: even before getting cast, just getting the audition notice and

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Speaker 2: immediately having sort of a guttural emotional reaction because I

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Speaker 2: remember so clearly when it happened. Natalie and I were

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Speaker 2: the same age, and it was really the first time,

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Speaker 2: I think, as a teenager that I understood the dangers

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Speaker 2: of our world as a young woman, and so when

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Speaker 2: it actually happened and I'm watching it in real time

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Speaker 2: in the news, it had a huge impact on me.

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Speaker 2: So when I then was being asked to step into

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Speaker 2: these shoes just as the as an audition, I remember

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Speaker 2: having a moment of like, am I emotionally ready for this?

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, being cast. I think because I was,

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Speaker 2: I was so new to this world. I really went

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Speaker 2: into it trying to honor her as best as I could.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I went back and watched little clips that

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Speaker 2: were available, interviews with her parents. I later ended up

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Speaker 2: reading her mom's book, but just to get a glimpse of,

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Speaker 2: like who is this person? Because I felt like, even

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Speaker 2: in the three minutes I had to audition, I wanted

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Speaker 2: to honor her as best as possible and really no

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Speaker 2: expectations of anything going further. So when I when I

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Speaker 2: found out that I was cast in the role, I

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Speaker 2: think it was shocking and a little bit terrifying, you know,

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Speaker 2: most first and foremost because it was a huge responsibility

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Speaker 2: as a young actress, but also because I wanted to

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Speaker 2: give her family and hers the gift of sort of

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Speaker 2: like telling her story and in some ways immortalizing who

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Speaker 2: she was and celebrating life she had.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that is such a It's not often that

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Speaker 1: we get to do things that are so important, you know,

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Speaker 1: like where there's another level to what you're doing, and

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Speaker 1: especially at such a young age, it's quite a beautiful

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Speaker 1: way to start. In my opinion, it's like just John

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Speaker 1: Bright in there. Did you did you spend time then

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Speaker 1: watching the video? There probably wasn't as much available then

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Speaker 1: as there is now. All these things keep sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, we get more and more information, But did

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Speaker 1: you were you able to speak with her mom? Was

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Speaker 1: she around at all? Was she involved? Not?

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Speaker 2: Before I had asked? That was actually my first question

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Speaker 2: when I got cast, was can I speak to anyone

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Speaker 2: family friends? Because like you said, there wasn't very much

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Speaker 2: available at the time. There were, you know, the news

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Speaker 2: clips that we had seen. There was her mother's book,

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Speaker 2: which was what the film was based on, so I

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Speaker 2: read that and at the time I wasn't really there

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Speaker 2: wasn't anything or anyone really accessible or that was willing

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Speaker 2: to at that point speak to me. However, once we

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Speaker 2: were filming her mom, Beth did come to set and

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Speaker 2: was there ended up being wow, So I did meet

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Speaker 2: her briefly. Her. My understanding was her day was supposed

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Speaker 2: to be longer, but it was too hard to be

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Speaker 2: there and watch it all play out in front of her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what was what were you shooting when she came? What?

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Speaker 2: You know, It's interesting when the day that I met her,

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Speaker 2: it was we were filming sort of innocent parts like

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Speaker 2: there wasn't it wasn't any and I'm sure that was intentional.

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Speaker 2: I was filming a scene playing around with her my mom,

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Speaker 2: but collegeberd a scene at the beach with my friends,

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Speaker 2: so they kept it pretty light when she was there,

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Speaker 2: even even having a few moments of interaction. We had

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Speaker 2: some I had asked that we meet prior to just

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Speaker 2: like meeting on set, so that we could have some

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Speaker 2: privacy and wherever she was in her emotional process. And

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Speaker 2: I remember the very first time I met her, they

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Speaker 2: had her sort of off to this side, like near

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Speaker 2: video village, but kind of in her own space, and

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Speaker 2: I wasn't warned that she was going to be there.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I didn't know what I was walking into. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And so all of a sudden they were like Amy

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Speaker 2: Beth and she sort of gasped when she saw me

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Speaker 2: and just like got teery and was like, oh wow,

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Speaker 2: they're really there is there was an essence about you

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Speaker 2: that's Natalie, and it just I think, oh wow, it

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Speaker 2: still gives me the Jill's thinking about it, and her

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Speaker 2: interaction was pretty brief. I had hoped for more, and

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Speaker 2: again had no idea what to expect. Yeah, and she

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Speaker 2: did like a little interview for the film, and that

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Speaker 2: was kind of it.

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Speaker 1: This really reminds me. I interviewed Shane Meyer, who played

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Speaker 1: Matthew Shepherd in his story, and he had a similar

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Speaker 1: experience with Matthew's mom. He they were supposed to have

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Speaker 1: this planned meeting and then he ran into her. I

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Speaker 1: just got chills thinking about it, him telling this story

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Speaker 1: like in the in a parking lot at the hotel

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Speaker 1: or something, and she just like she just wept because

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Speaker 1: there was a piece of Matthew in him too, like

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Speaker 1: that similar thing of there's something extraordinarily special about that,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like that's.

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Speaker 2: Just yeah, And I think it's one of those things

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Speaker 2: that will forever stick with me, just having that moment

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Speaker 2: looking into her eyes and feeling the both the honor

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Speaker 2: and the tremendous responsibility to tell their story, to tell

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Speaker 2: her daughter's.

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Speaker 1: Story, right, I mean it's literally as a mother, you know,

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Speaker 1: your worst nightmare. It's my worst Nightmary. It's just unimaginable.

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Speaker 1: And I think the only thing you can do in

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Speaker 1: these situations, you know, like why do we tell these

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Speaker 1: stories in films and television shows? It's to create some

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Speaker 1: healing and closure and allowing people to understand really the

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Speaker 1: depth of what people go through in these situations. You know,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that made this case so agonizing

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Speaker 1: is that you're in van der Slut. He kept changing

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Speaker 1: his story over and over again. And I mean, what

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Speaker 1: was it like knowing that her Nally's family was riding

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Speaker 1: that emotional roller coaster every time they thought they might

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Speaker 1: finally get an answer. You know, that is just an

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Speaker 1: incredibly impossible thing to metabolize, I think.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that is why Beth in particular

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Speaker 2: kept going. I think, you know, it was eighteen years

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Speaker 2: from the time that Natalie disappeared to when they had

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Speaker 2: any sort of answer as to what happened to her.

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Speaker 2: And like you said, as a mother, you know, I

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Speaker 2: filmed this fresh out of college, and now I'm a mother,

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Speaker 2: I have a very different perspective. You know, even just

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Speaker 2: in the last few weeks, knowing that I was going

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Speaker 2: to be talking to you, I have been watching some

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Speaker 2: of the more recent interviews. Obviously, I've followed the case

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Speaker 2: closely all of these years, but I think that one

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Speaker 2: of the things that sort of kept her going and

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Speaker 2: kept her hope alive. Was what you just said was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: how do I use my story, use my experience to

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Speaker 2: help others to prevent this from happening to other families

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Speaker 2: and a face and a support for those going through it?

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately it's not that rare. But yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 2: can't even begin to imagine the daily turmoil. You know,

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Speaker 2: she talks about it as like she lives every day

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Speaker 2: for her as a living nightmare.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I mean think any parents should ever have to even

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Speaker 2: feel a fraction of like.

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Speaker 1: It becomes that's now the story of your life. I'm

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Speaker 1: always so moved by these things. This idea of your

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Speaker 1: life just takes this complete oneint eighty and you are

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Speaker 1: left with this option of what to do. Do I

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Speaker 1: just completely lose my life and myself and everything, or

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Speaker 1: do I try to repair and make some sense of it?

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Speaker 2: I cannot. I don't know how any parent continues, you know,

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Speaker 2: moves on and finds purpose and finds joy. And that

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Speaker 2: was one of the things that was really striking when

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Speaker 2: I met Beth was I was so in awe of

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Speaker 2: her strength, of her like willingness to be there and

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Speaker 2: put herself out there and be vulnerable and there is

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Speaker 2: and you know, even watching interviews, you can tell there's

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Speaker 2: there's something indescribable behind her eyes that is forever broken.

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Speaker 2: I see that, I really do.

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Speaker 1: Listening to his uron vander Slut's confession, there is this

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Speaker 1: a very fine line between you know, exploitation and but

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Speaker 1: I feel like it was so important for me to

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Speaker 1: hear this person speak and realize this. He feels no remorse.

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Speaker 1: This is like a that is a damaged, sick human being. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that has no the kind of very methodical. It's like

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Speaker 1: he could have been, you know, reading a lunch menu

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Speaker 1: to you like it was. I just could not get

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Speaker 1: over it. And she her her mom is just so

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Speaker 1: she's really something. I mean, she really is amazing, and I.

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Speaker 2: Think it's survival. It's the only way she Yeah, she could.

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Speaker 2: I mean even hearing her talk about her like her

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Speaker 2: reflections of his confession, she shares very similarly to what

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Speaker 2: you were just saying. But there's almost not an understanding

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Speaker 2: in any way, but an acceptance of this is not

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Speaker 2: a human, this is a monster. This is so he

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Speaker 2: can't be upheld to the same moral standards. And at

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Speaker 2: the same time, like how I don't know, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: how you move on or how you forget or you know,

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Speaker 2: I think for her after so many years, finally hearing

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Speaker 2: what they believed now to be the truth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, some sort of enclosure.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know.

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Speaker 1: When you were shooting the movie, did you have any

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Speaker 1: theories or feelings about what you thought really happened to Natalie.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think there was never a doubt in

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Speaker 2: my mind that he was guilty, that he killed her,

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Speaker 2: and that it was intentional. You know, it's interesting because

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Speaker 2: so much of the information that was provided to me

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Speaker 2: through like you know, her book and the accounts of

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Speaker 2: her family and friends. It was like a puzzle sort

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Speaker 2: of putting the pieces together, trying to figure out and

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Speaker 2: the stories were not that drastically different, but different enough,

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Speaker 2: and each one more gruesome than the one before that,

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Speaker 2: Like it almost became like the details weren't what mattered.

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Speaker 2: It was just like some sense of like finding justice

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Speaker 2: or I almost like wanted it to be justified in

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Speaker 2: some way, Like maybe I wanted it to be an

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Speaker 2: accident because I didn't want to believe that it was

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Speaker 2: as horrible right it was.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of one of the things that's heartbreaking about

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Speaker 1: the movie. Is when you see the Beath character played

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Speaker 1: by Tracy Poullin, when she's saying things like she gets

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Speaker 1: these glimpses of hope, and she's on this mission like

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Speaker 1: we're gonna find her. She like, it's just heartbreaking because

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Speaker 1: you know that that's never going to happen, and it's

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Speaker 1: just it's heartbreaking.

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Speaker 2: And to be dragged along. I mean some you know,

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Speaker 2: some of his confessions included possibilities that she was still alive,

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Speaker 2: that she was sold to sex slavery, or so I

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Speaker 2: think that there was you know, it's impossible to not

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Speaker 2: lose hope even you know, obviously I'm very removed from

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Speaker 2: the story and from the actual people, but I think

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Speaker 2: even you know, as recently as a few years ago

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Speaker 2: when he was finally well, I say, finally confessed, but

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Speaker 2: the most recent confession, there was still this. I agree,

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Speaker 2: you know, I knew in my heart and in my

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Speaker 2: gut it was possible that she, all these years later,

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Speaker 2: was still alive. But it's hard to let go of

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Speaker 2: that tiny piece of hope because you're so bad as

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Speaker 2: you know, want this to be a nightmare to be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it was horrible film that we watched, but it's not true.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't actually ask people. And I think for Beth,

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Speaker 2: because she turned her experience into sort of a newfound

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Speaker 2: purpose or reason for continuing, she needed that hope to

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Speaker 2: keep going.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, I mean that's really because they they

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Speaker 1: still there was never a body, which is something that

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Speaker 1: makes it very concrete and real that someone has gone.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's got to be a piece of

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Speaker 1: why she needed this confession to be real. I guess

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Speaker 1: they only you need some kind of way to move forward.

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Speaker 2: It is beyond horrific, the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: I talked to jirelle Jerome, who was in the Incredible

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Speaker 1: series when they see Us, the Ava Diverne series about

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Speaker 1: the Central Park five, and I was asking him what

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Speaker 1: like the most difficult scenes were to do, and you know,

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Speaker 1: he ironically said, I brought up this one scene towards

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Speaker 1: the end, and it's it's it's like a fantasy, it's

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Speaker 1: what if he didn't go to the police station kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. And it's this beautiful scene where he goes

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Speaker 1: to Coney Island and he has this beautiful time with

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend and Jirell like broke down. He's like, that

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Speaker 1: was the hardest thing to do because it was like,

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Speaker 1: this is what could have been? You know, So I'm

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Speaker 1: curious for you what what were the hardest things to

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Speaker 1: shoot and was it a surprise? What was difficult? Do

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Speaker 1: you remember?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think two things come to mind. One in

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Speaker 2: a you know, very similar vein there is a montage

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Speaker 2: and I'm forgetting if it was in Natalie Holloway or

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Speaker 2: Justice for Natalie, the sequel that we did sort of

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Speaker 2: a happy montage and it was graduation day and Natalie

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Speaker 2: like running through a field in her cap and gown

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Speaker 2: and doing cartwheels and puddling with her mom and not

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Speaker 2: necessarily like what could have been, but what the life

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Speaker 2: that she had. This was a young girl who was

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Speaker 2: so full of life and so full of potential. So

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Speaker 2: I think those the happy moments. I can absolutely relate

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Speaker 2: to what he said that they those were the most surprising.

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Speaker 2: I think for me, like the difficulty in filming those

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Speaker 2: was really surprising, Yeah, because I thought those would be

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Speaker 2: the easiest to film. But it was the imagining and

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Speaker 2: really understanding and living like the joy that was so

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Speaker 2: was cut so short.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And maybe that's why it was so hard for

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Speaker 1: her mom. Maybe that's why she couldn't stay longer. You know,

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Speaker 1: they probably and rightfully so assume a scene like that

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Speaker 1: will be easier for her to metabolize, but not necessarily.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting that you bring that up to

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Speaker 2: because I don't think I would have thought about that,

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Speaker 2: but now reflecting the Yeah, the surprise of how hard

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Speaker 2: those scenes were, and really, I mean every day was

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Speaker 2: there was something there was you know, it was a

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Speaker 2: hard rule to walk back to my hotel room and

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Speaker 2: shake off at the end of the day, to live

295
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Speaker 2: these nightmares on set every day, you know, obviously thankfully

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Speaker 2: in a pretend world, but then to kind of reflect

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Speaker 2: and replay, and it was emotionally very I think challenging throughout.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I was really lucky to work with people

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Speaker 2: like Tracy, who is so as a person, just so

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Speaker 2: positive and so suppose live and she really became like

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Speaker 2: my mom on set and kind of held my hand

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Speaker 2: through those hard scenes and days, even if she wasn't

303
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Speaker 2: literally there with me. And so I think because because

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Speaker 2: of the subject matter, the cast became really close. We

305
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Speaker 2: needed each other to process and yeah, like shake it

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Speaker 2: off together and kind of come back to reality.

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Speaker 1: Right, did you guys talk about the case on set,

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Speaker 1: like with the cut, were you guys talking about what

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Speaker 1: was happening or were you really sticking with the a

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Speaker 1: little bit?

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Speaker 2: It was mostly what you know, what was talked about

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Speaker 2: in the script. There were definitely ongoing conversations I would say,

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Speaker 2: amongst the cast, but also with the producers when questions

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Speaker 2: would arise, especially because so much of it, everything that

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Speaker 2: we played out from like a legal standpoint, had been

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Speaker 2: at least mentioned in court at some point. But there

317
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Speaker 2: was a fine line between you know, as the actors

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Speaker 2: wanting to feel like we weren't embellishing or we weren't dramatizing,

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Speaker 2: we were actually like staying as true to the story

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Speaker 2: as possible, And so I think in that sense we

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Speaker 2: talked about it, but there there was It was mostly

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Speaker 2: as it pertained to the film and to the script,

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Speaker 2: but then definitely after the fact, you know, anytime there's

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Speaker 2: any sort of break in the case or update, everybody

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Speaker 2: sort of like did you see this?

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Speaker 1: Have you talked to your kids about this? Like do

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Speaker 1: you what or how old are they?

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Speaker 2: First of all their teeny, my oldest is four.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, so no, but it is definitely.

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Speaker 2: Something that I don't even know how.

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Speaker 1: How you bring up Yeah, I mean I think about

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Speaker 1: I have a fourteen year old daughter and newly fourteen,

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Speaker 1: and I just can't you know, I feel like, okay,

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Speaker 1: so she's just I guess she just won't ever go anywhere,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it's a very hard

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Speaker 1: to uh metabolize to not kind of become fatalistic and

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Speaker 1: not because we all know. I'm sure you know this already,

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Speaker 1: even even though you're old is only four that the

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Speaker 1: more you say something, the less interested they are hearing it.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's like an impossible task to figure.

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Speaker 2: Out even with you know, little tiny ones. My husband

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Speaker 2: and I just talked about a few days ago, like

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Speaker 2: how do how do we feel about things like sleepovers

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Speaker 2: and plates? Like we're right on the verge of like

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Speaker 2: we still go to the plates, but that yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: there's a different reality and I think that that it is.

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Speaker 2: You know, we were discussing how when we were growing

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Speaker 2: up it really was like you're raised by a village

349
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Speaker 2: and every but he was always at it. Yeah, and

350
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Speaker 2: as long as my parents knew where I was, it

351
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Speaker 2: was fine. But it's it has changed. It's different now.

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Speaker 2: It is a hard thing you know, even though I'm

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Speaker 2: not quite there yet with my own kids. It's it's

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Speaker 2: a really terrifying thing to navigate because there's a you know,

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Speaker 2: you don't want to be overprotective and keep them in

356
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Speaker 2: a little bubble, even though we want to. And at

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Speaker 2: the same time, I think, you know, you do have

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Speaker 2: to be realistic and teach them like the reality of

359
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Speaker 2: the world that we live in, the reality of the.

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Speaker 1: World right has did Did making this film change the

361
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Speaker 1: way you think about traveling or traveling alone as a woman?

362
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it was interesting so that the film

363
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Speaker 2: was in We shot in South Africa, and like I said,

364
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Speaker 2: it was one of my very first projects, professional projects

365
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Speaker 2: as an actor ever. And my mom came with me

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Speaker 2: for the beginning of the shoot. And I think part

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Speaker 2: of that was because of the subject matter that I

368
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Speaker 2: was like, wait, I'm traveling across and it was more her,

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Speaker 2: I think her wanting to be right.

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Speaker 1: She was like, I'm gonna stay.

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Speaker 2: Her to what where? But it was I think a

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Speaker 2: really big growing opportunity for me. She so she came

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Speaker 2: with me and was with me for half of the shoot,

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Speaker 2: also going you know, literally across the globe to film

375
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Speaker 2: this thing. Having no idea what I was going to

376
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Speaker 2: find on the other end, and she left halfway through,

377
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Speaker 2: and so the second half of the filming was on

378
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Speaker 2: my own. And I think that that I think it

379
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 2: was a really like pivotal moment in my life of

380
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Speaker 2: sort of stepping into like, Okay, I can do this.

381
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Speaker 2: I am safe. I am with people that I trust,

382
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Speaker 2: and seeing that she trusted, you know, trusted enough to

383
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Speaker 2: leave me and let me experience this, obviously I was safe.

384
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Speaker 2: But yeah, it's definitely something that I think about that

385
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 2: I am. I think I probably think about more having

386
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 2: had the experience of filming it than had I not right,

387
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Speaker 2: even I'm more like subconscious.

388
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Speaker 1: What was your reaction when Jurine van der Slute confessed

389
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: to the killing in twenty twenty three as part of

390
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 1: his plea agreement.

391
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Speaker 2: To be totally honest. I was angry at first. It

392
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 2: was like I didn't I didn't know if we could

393
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 2: believe him. It was you know, it had been so

394
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Speaker 2: many years and so many false accus are at confessions,

395
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Speaker 2: and you know, after he extortion and just sort of

396
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 2: this like horrible ring around that he had put her

397
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Speaker 2: poor family through.

398
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Speaker 1: Right, So were people who don't know he had extorted

399
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: demanded two hundred and fifty thousand dollars from Beth, Natalie's mom,

400
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: in order to give her information about what happened to Natalie.

401
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 2: Which was false. Again right, So yeah, Initially I think

402
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 2: my first reaction was like, again, like, you know, how

403
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 2: do we know? How do we know? Why? Why would

404
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: this time be different? And then I think following that,

405
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: you know, he was then tried for murdering another young

406
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: girl in a similar fashion, and I think that that

407
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 2: sort of then became almost like a little bit of

408
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: relief for the family of like, Okay, finally they can

409
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: have some sort of closure or just like they know

410
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 2: that he isn't just out there now, right, you know,

411
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: even though he has never been tried for Natalie's murder

412
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: at least like something.

413
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: That is what I can't I can't get over that

414
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: because so initially it seems that you all cover this

415
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: in the film, and also in reality, I think this

416
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: is very much true that his dad was somewhat protected

417
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: in Aruba because he was an attorney and sort of

418
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: up for some sort of important position, and so they

419
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: almost they sheltered him in a way that seems totally

420
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: outrageous to me, but so and his I also heard.

421
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Speaker 1: I think it was one of the was this thing

422
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: that this was I think in a documentary that the money.

423
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: So they did give him twenty five thousand dollars as

424
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: to sort of trap him, and then he used that

425
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,479
Speaker 1: money to get to Peru and that's when he murdered

426
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 1: this other young girl. And so like the tentacles of

427
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: this whole thing and the guilt that people feel, and

428
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: it's just endless and it's so upsetting on so many levels.

429
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't you know, I don't know that they

430
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 2: will ever truly be justice or if they will ever

431
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 2: know the full story. Like you said, there's no body,

432
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 2: there's no true evidence. But I think at some point

433
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 2: in order to move on, you have to just believe.

434
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like you have to make an internal decision

435
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: to say I believe this to be the truth, and

436
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: now I can yeah.

437
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:23,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, but really never with any true closure or feeling

438
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: of safety or security in any of it. Yeah, you know,

439
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: he himself is a father.

440
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: I did not know that until literally maybe fifteen minutes

441
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: before we started talking today.

442
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: What but it goes back to what you were saying.

443
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a person who clearly has no remorse.

444
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 2: Who is you know, for lack of better words, not human,

445
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: which is terrifying acknowledge that there are people like that

446
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 2: that exist, and you know, someone like him who was

447
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 2: free for almost eighteen years.

448
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: That's as long as she was alive. Even more right,

449
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: it's crazy. Do people still recognize you for this role?

450
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: And do they bring it up to you?

451
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's interesting, it's sort of I always

452
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: tease it. It's like the surprise that like always pops

453
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: up I'll be doing something. And I just recently did

454
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: a convention for a CW show, Supernatural that I worked

455
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: on actually like around the same time, and had somebody

456
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: bring me a picture from the film to sign, and

457
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: it sort of caught me off guard.

458
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

459
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yes, it definitely comes up a lot, or

460
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 2: even in auditions it will be like broad up people

461
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: will ask about it. But even I would say, the

462
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: most impactful I get, not recognition, but sort of how

463
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: it has stayed with me is that every time Natalie

464
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: pops up in the news, her story is any sort

465
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: of coverage I get sent from multiple friends and family,

466
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: like emails or links to news clips or article right

467
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: in a way that feels, you know, obviously I'm forever

468
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: connected to her story, but also a little bit surreal

469
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: that there's like still there. I guess there is forever

470
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: an association between she and I. M.

471
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a right. Now it's become part of your

472
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: story too. I always think that's so interesting, And I

473
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: don't think it's accidental. You know, when like the right

474
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: people are chosen for these sorts of things, you know,

475
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: it's clear that you can carry that weight with you, you know,

476
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: like you're able to give that grace and you know important.

477
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: So I think that's not an accident.

478
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: And I you know, like I said, even from when

479
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: I found out I was going to be working on it,

480
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: I feel incredibly honored to have been a piece of

481
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 2: her story in terms of honoring her memory for her

482
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: family in some way.

483
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, this has been such a wonderful conversation. You're

484
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: just such a lovely spirit in general. I'm so pleased

485
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: I got to meet you. Is there anything you're working

486
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: on you want to tell us about, or you just

487
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: working on the little ones in your house.

488
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 2: Right right now? Being mom? Yeah, yeah, the little one

489
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: about to join our family.

490
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that.

491
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: Is right now. I feel like that's like my greatest rule.

492
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yes, congratulations, thank you, thank you. Oh

493
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: it's the best thing ever. And it does. I will say.

494
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: I just was on a flight with two people not

495
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: with them. They were sitting across from me, a couple

496
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: with the little one who I would guess is like

497
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: thirteen fourteen months. So that which is the most exhausting

498
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: age on an airplane with a child, because they're like,

499
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: oh I can I can move my body and walk.

500
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: Around nails and not just a seatbelt. How dare you restrict?

501
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 2: I watched these.

502
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: Two and these two people were just like I could

503
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: see the exhaustion in their faces, and I said, it

504
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: really is exhausting, but it gets so much more exhausting

505
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: in a different way. You know, it's not, but it is.

506
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: It does get easier too. I mean, my daughter's will

507
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: sleep away camp right now. Oh I badgine that, which

508
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: is like crazy town. That's a whole other set of

509
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: like and then like you miss them and then you went.

510
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: But then I'm like, wow, there's so many hours in

511
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: the day now, Like I just have so much time

512
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: to get things done.

513
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: I don't even know what that means yeah, right, it's

514
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: very much appreciated, so.

515
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: You'll you'll get there, but enjoy it all. I'll enjoy

516
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: it all. You can watch the film Natalie Holloway. It

517
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: is streaming online as well as as the sequel, Justice

518
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: for Natalie Holloway. Amy, you are a pleasure, and thank

519
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: you so much for talking with me today.

520
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: Thank you