1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World, our progressive politics eroding 2 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: core Navy values and their readiness to defend our nation. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: Seventeen former military officers apply their insights, shaped by combat 4 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: command and senior leadership experience, to illuminate the divisive threat 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: of Wolke politics. In the new book Don't Give Up 6 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: the Ship. They argue that the impact of politicizing America's 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: military and endangered security erodes readiness and risks of wartime defeat. 8 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: Here to discuss the new book, I'm really pleased to 9 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: welcome my guest, Captain Tom Burbage. He's a former executive 10 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: vice president of Lockheed martin Or and Oudics Company, former 11 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: general manager of the F thirty five Lightning II Program Integration, 12 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: a graduate of the US Naval Academy. He's also one 13 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: of the founders of the Calvert Task Group. Tom. Welcome 14 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: and thank you for joining me on News World. 15 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, mister speaker, and I appreciate you 16 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: having us on. 17 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: You've had remarkable experience in your life. Can you kind 18 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: of walk us through from the Naval Academy to today? 19 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: Yes, Sir, I grew up in a family of naval aviators. 20 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: My father was a career naval aviator, and most of 21 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 2: my role models as a young guy were naval aviators, 22 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: and it seemed natural that's the path I wanted to follow. 23 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 2: So I applied and got accepted to the Naval Academy, 24 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 2: graduated from there in nineteen sixty nine, and my first 25 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: squadron was with the E two Hawkey, which is a 26 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 2: radar plane flies off a carriers and basically is the 27 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 2: air traffic controller for the airplanes that are in the 28 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: air wing. Then got the tremendous opportunity to go to 29 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: the Navy Test File School. I was the first E 30 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 2: two guy to actually go there and graduated from there. 31 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: Was a test pilot for a number of years at 32 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: the Tuxon River, and then I went out to the 33 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 2: USS Eisenhower and I was the catapult and arresting gear 34 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: officer on a nuclear carrier that was going on. It's 35 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 2: made in deployment. Today that carrier is considered one of 36 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 2: the older ones in the fleet, but at the time 37 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: it was brand new. I left active duty in nineteen 38 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: eighty and went to work for Lockheed before they were 39 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 2: Lockey Martin out in California in Burbank, and went out 40 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 2: to fly with them as a test pilot, but it 41 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: turned out they weren't testing anything new, so I got 42 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: into their program management, business development operation, and sort of 43 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: went from there. I spent two years in Washington, spent 44 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 2: ten years in the Marietta facility. At the time was 45 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: part of your jurisdiction, and I recall vividly you coming 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 2: out to the plant and being the guest speaker primary 47 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: speaker at the rolled out ceremony of the F twenty 48 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: two Raptor airplane in Marietta. Following that, I was the 49 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 2: president of that company for just a short period of 50 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: time while they were consolidating companies, and then I went 51 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: to Fort Worth to run the F thirty five program. 52 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 2: I've been retired now for ten years. Thought I would 53 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: be on the golf course and join the retired life 54 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: and chasing grandkids and all those things that we do 55 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: when we get to this stage of our life. But 56 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 2: myself and a number of my classmates felt the years 57 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 2: to come off the couch and try to be a 58 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 2: voice in the future of the country which we think 59 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: is under threatened. Number Harrius Today. 60 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: I have to say, by the way, because of my 61 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: background representing Marietta, you were involved with the C one 62 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: thirty J I guess the C one thirty maybe the 63 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: most successful airframe ever designed, the C five, the F 64 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: twenty two. These were all built in my district. And 65 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: then F twenty two is still a remarkable air dominance fighter. 66 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: My guess is it still has no peer in the world. 67 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 2: I believe that. Yes, sir, this is. 68 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: A slight detour, but I can't help myself. Could you 69 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: just walk us through the net advantage of the F 70 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: thirty five with all of its technology and its interoperability 71 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: with each other, It's really very different than any previous airplane, 72 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: and I would be honest to tell you I don't 73 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: understand it. 74 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: It is a different concept. The US and our allies 75 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: fly very similar aircraft. Most of our closest allies fly 76 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 2: US frontline fighters. All of their fleets are aging, some 77 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 2: more rapidly than ours. And we, the United States government 78 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: and the military, came to the conclusion that we're not 79 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: going to fight any future wars alone. That will be 80 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 2: flying and fighting together as a coalition of operators, and 81 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: so they invited the closest allies eight other countries to 82 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 2: join us in the development of the next generation aircraft. 83 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: And if you just think of the F twenty two 84 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 2: and the F thirty five, they're actually ten years apart 85 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: in terms of technology and design freeze, and the missions 86 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 2: are quite different. F twenty two air combat King Kong 87 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: in the air. F thirty five more strategic fly and 88 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 2: multiple airplanes in the same formation, very stealthy, hard to 89 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: detect able, to attack heavily defended strategic targets. So the 90 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: different missions of drove the airplanes to different kinds of designs. 91 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: You've really flown in something like thirty eight different kinds 92 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: of aircraft, which is pretty remarkable. How do you react 93 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: to the notion that one of the next phases may 94 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: be using very advanced drones and fleets around a plane 95 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: so that the plane will be coordinating a whole series 96 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: of sort of satellite aircraft. 97 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the next step. You know, there's 98 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: always the argument of whether we'll ever leave manned aircraft. 99 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,559 Speaker 2: I personally think we never will because the human mind, 100 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: a human brain is important in any combat scenario where 101 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: human life becomes a major criteria. I think you'll see airplanes. 102 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,679 Speaker 2: I think it's happening now in the experimental areas where 103 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 2: an airplane like an F thirty five will be controlling 104 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: unmanned aircraft on its wing, be able to send that 105 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 2: unmanned aircraft into a thread area to set off the 106 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: enemy's systems or whatever they want, to use it strategically 107 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 2: to again attack an ever more heavily defended target. 108 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: The race for survival is not going to slow down, 109 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: it seems to me. But that's precisely what leads us 110 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: to what makes it interesting about what you've done, Because 111 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: you and a group of fellow Naval Academy graduates created 112 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: the Calvert Task Group. What led to that and why 113 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: did you pick that title? 114 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 2: Well, as I said, most of us are Naval Academy graduates, 115 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 2: not all of us. Most of us are from an 116 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 2: age when patriotism and love of country were primary in 117 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 2: our lives, and we've seen some erosion of that in 118 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 2: the lives of today's youth. We were playing golf on 119 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: occasions and having difficult of remembering everybody's email address, so 120 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 2: we put ourselves under a blank email that we called 121 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 2: the Calvert Group, and that's really how it started. It 122 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: was a social club more than anything else. It's named 123 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 2: after Admiral James Calvert, who was the superintendent at the 124 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 2: Academy when most of us were there, and a very 125 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: famous naval leader of first submarine to use as nautilist 126 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: the surface at the North Pole and had a very 127 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: distinguished Navy career. We contacted his family and once we 128 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,679 Speaker 2: kind of came off the couch, we contacted his family 129 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 2: to see if they had any concerns about us actually 130 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: continuing to use the name as we moved into a 131 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: more public view, and they didn't. They were glad that 132 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: he was remembered the way we remembered him. But we 133 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: came off the couch and we decided to get engaged. 134 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: And it started with an incident at the Naval Academy, 135 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 2: which is most of our alma maters, and it was 136 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: very concerning to us. It was about twenty nineteen. It 137 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: was when the very early stages of COVID were starting. 138 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 2: It was when the Black Lives Matter and the Summer 139 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: of Love quote unquote peaceful demonstrations were starting to occur, 140 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 2: and there was a very much of a fracture between 141 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: police generation and the Rioters. And one of the midshipment 142 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: at the Naval Academy had parents were both Los Angeles 143 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 2: police department policeman and police woman, and he was up 144 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 2: in an internal squabble over whether he should be commissioned 145 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: or not based on him taking some anonymous positions that 146 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 2: were in favor of the police. Long story short, that 147 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: got us engaged in the Naval Academy. We were concerned 148 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 2: with some things we saw. We went to the Naval Academy, 149 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: met with the current superintendent, asked them a bunch of questions, 150 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: didn't get a lot of good answers, and that sort 151 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 2: of grew to a bigger concern that most of that 152 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 2: level in the service were being heavily influenced by policy 153 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: policies that many of us were unaware of, or at 154 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 2: least hadn't woken up to because we'd been kind of 155 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 2: out of the mainstream. I think the same thing could 156 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 2: be said of the school system, the K through twelve 157 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: school systems, where most of the parents weren't really aware 158 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: of what was being taught in schools until children were 159 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: forced to stay home and parents were able to look 160 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 2: over the shoulder and see what they were being taught, 161 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 2: and it generated a reaction among parents, and it generated 162 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: a reaction among us that we've lost something in the 163 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: society today in the way that things are being done 164 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 2: from a policy standpoint, so we elevated our scope a 165 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 2: little bit from the Naval Academy to the Navy and 166 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: defense in general. There's so many areas that could be 167 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: challenged today, and you can't boil the ocean, so we 168 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: try to stay limited in the way that we were focused. 169 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: But that led to the Calvert Task Group, sort of 170 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: a play on words. We were just a Calvert group, 171 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: but then Calvert Task Group sounds a little bit more 172 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 2: like the Navy. So we wanted to be a force 173 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 2: for good. Although we were viewed, certainly in the early 174 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: days and somewhat today as an outside group that was 175 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: contradicting or countering the policies that were in place, and 176 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 2: that's exactly what we were. 177 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: Why should the average citizen be worried about the kind 178 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: of changes? And we understand culturally us older guys may 179 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: wonder about the next general I think that's been true forever. 180 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: But from a national security, national survival standpoint, why should 181 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: Americans be worried about the evolution of the Defense Department 182 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: in general and the Navy in particular. 183 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 2: I look at it as there's a number of pillars 184 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 2: that are fundamental to a constitutional republic. And the more 185 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 2: I hear the word democracy is a threat and more 186 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 2: it makes you feel that people don't really understand what 187 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: a democracy is and what a constitutional republic is. But 188 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 2: a constitution starts with the oath that has some fundamental pillars, 189 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: free and fair elections, various things, and then finally a 190 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: strong national defense, peace through strength. And when you see 191 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 2: that divisive ideology taking place in the training that leads 192 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: up to becoming a leader in the military. Inside the military, 193 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: you would expect to see a natural regression in both 194 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: recruiting and retention, and for it all volunteer force we 195 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 2: have today, Recruiting and retention is fundamental to maintaining that 196 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: force and the end the ultimate metric is readiness. And 197 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 2: if you read the news today, you can see lots 198 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: of examples where readiness is not at his best right now. 199 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: In fact, I've just read an artcold last week that 200 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: seventeen Navy support ships were being tied up because they 201 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 2: don't have the cruise to man them. So the three 202 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: things sort of run together, recruiting, retention and readiness, and 203 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 2: they're not doing so well right now. 204 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: Do you think part of that is a rejection of 205 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: the emerging culture of the military that it's not attracting 206 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: the kind of people they used to think they wanted 207 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: to be in the military. 208 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, sir, I think that's a big part of it. 209 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 2: I think the part and soul of the military recruiting 210 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 2: population in the past has been sort of Middle America, 211 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: center right, military background in the family, Christian background. Those 212 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: things have all sort of withered under this Dei ideology, 213 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 2: which pits aggressors against the aggress I think from a 214 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: recruiting standpoint, the candidate pool has become a lot weaker, 215 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: and when it becomes a lot weaker, then standards get lowered, 216 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 2: and that has an ultimate secondary effect on the military 217 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 2: when you look at retention. I think most of the 218 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: folks that are in the military want to be in 219 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: the military for a reason, and that's to defend the 220 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 2: country and be involved in keeping the country where it 221 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: needs to be on the world stage. And I think 222 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: that requires a certain amount of bandwidth to stay focused 223 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 2: on that mission. And then when that bandwidth gets used 224 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: up by ideology, training things that are not fundamental to 225 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: unity in the military, I think there's a natural repelling 226 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 2: of that for those that are spending their time in 227 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 2: the military. So again results on retention challenges. 228 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: Somebody told me the other day that the problem of 229 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: retention is as great as the problem of recruitment. 230 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 2: I've heard that, and I've heard that on retention you 231 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: can be incentivized to be retained through financial benefits, and 232 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 2: in recruiting you can expand your recruiting population by lowering standards, 233 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 2: whether they're academic, whether they're physical, wherever they are. And 234 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 2: if you look at the societal changes that have happened 235 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: in the last ten to fifteen years, fatherless homes, lack 236 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 2: of role models in the family, in the general population 237 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 2: that comes in through the enlisted rights, it's almost like 238 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: a Ruby's cube. You know, there's so many different dimensions 239 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: of this problem, so many different colors on the cube. 240 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: It's hard to figure out how do you get all 241 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 2: these things back in sync. 242 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: So what led you as a group to decide to 243 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: write a book. 244 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 2: Well, that's another interesting point. We're all kind of closet, 245 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: sayss And we would spend time at home at night, 246 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 2: you know, writing, putting your thoughts on papers, saying why 247 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: in the world is this happening? Why aren't more people 248 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: speaking out. Why isn't this a bigger issue? Have we 249 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 2: had individual We had a fairly large number of articles 250 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: published in various newspapers and magazines and things like that, 251 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: But a published article has a shelf life of about 252 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 2: forty eight hours and then people move on to the 253 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 2: next subject. So we thought we would put these into 254 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 2: a book and maybe the book would open up a 255 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 2: new avenue, and it has. It's opened up the podcast genre, 256 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: and it allows us to talk to people like you 257 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 2: and others and try to get our message out through 258 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 2: a broader audience. Our whole objective has been to try 259 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: to just be a voice, try to reason with folks, 260 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 2: try to make people understand that policies are much more 261 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 2: important than personalities when you're making a big decision that 262 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: could affect the course of the country. And so the 263 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: podcast genre and certainly speaking to you, you're at the 264 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 2: top of our list for great people to speak to, 265 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: and that's opened up that worldforce. So we're now seeing much, 266 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 2: i think, broader recognition of the issues that we're talking about. 267 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: And that's all we want to do is get the 268 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: issues out there. 269 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: Let me go to the basics. Where does the don't 270 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: give up the ship come from. 271 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: It's a famous naval saying. And if you walk into 272 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 2: Memorial Hall and the Naval Academy, there's a huge blue 273 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: flags is don't give up the ship. It started with 274 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: a navy officer Navy ship that was in combat and 275 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 2: the USS Chesapeake, and it was a saying that the 276 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 2: captain and the ship would yell over his bullhorn, don't 277 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 2: give up the ship. It was later memorialized by Oliver 278 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: hazard Perry when he came back into another fight in 279 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: the same conflict, and it became kind of a rallying 280 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: cry for the Navy and for the Naval Academy. We 281 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 2: use it as an analogy. We think to a sailor, 282 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 2: the ship is home, the ship is his world. You're 283 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 2: at sea. If the ship goes down, you go down, 284 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 2: and the ship from an analogous perspective to us as America, 285 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: and if we don't worry about the holes in the 286 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: hull or the battles that we're in and that ship 287 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: goes down, we pretty much go down with it as 288 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: a nation and the things that we represent. 289 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: Some of the stuff you all have brought to light 290 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: that all male units in terms of ground combat, all 291 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: male units outperformed co ed units and seventy percent of 292 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: combat tasks, and the recommendation to retain all male units 293 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: because of combat effectiveness was just overruled. Doesn't that mean 294 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: we're actually setting up people to get killed? 295 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 2: If you trace back the history of the introduction of 296 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 2: this socialist tending ideology into our government institutions, it's not 297 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: an overnight sensation and started back in the twenty ten 298 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: twenty eleven timeframe when ideologies were embedded in a number 299 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: of the institutions, including the service academies, and it was 300 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 2: more or less a fringe, not necessarily dominant way of 301 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 2: thinking at the time. And it's expanded dramatically over the 302 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 2: last ten years, and for a number of reasons, in 303 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 2: my opinion, one of which is has become very heavily 304 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: incentivized financially. The DEI industry, diversity equity inclusion industry today 305 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: is about a fifteen point five billion dollar industry. And 306 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 2: when you have that kind of money promoting the business 307 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: of selling that ideology, whether it's to corporations or whether 308 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 2: it's to the military, it's hard to deflect that it's 309 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 2: a life of its own. In the military it's divisive. 310 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: It's divisive along racial lines, it's divisive along almost any 311 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 2: line you can think of. And when you're in a unit, 312 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 2: particularly a combat unit, where life and death is the 313 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 2: risk factor, you're not worried about whether your a cup 314 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 2: of coffee at Starbucks is the right color or not. 315 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 2: You're worried about whether your unit is going to survive. 316 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 2: You can't tolerate division amongst the troops. You need to 317 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 2: have unity, and that ideology is based on the opposite. 318 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: So that was a major concern. I think anybody that 319 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: understands combat understands that the female and the male bodies 320 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 2: are different biologically. And there's been a number of directions 321 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 2: to insert women into the rangers or insert women into seals, 322 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 2: and you can't do that effectively when the risk is 323 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 2: at a life and death level and when it's very 324 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 2: much dependent on physical strength. So there are plenty of 325 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 2: roles for every race and gender in the military. Combat 326 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,479 Speaker 2: is its own special thing, and basically it's because of 327 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 2: the risk of life and death that's at stake you 328 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 2: want to have the best. Jim Webb was a Senator 329 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 2: of Virginia, a Naval Academy graduate, former sector of the 330 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,719 Speaker 2: Navy had an interesting comment one time when we were 331 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 2: still living with a draft. He said, your leaders in 332 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: combat are highly trained individuals, but the people that actually 333 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 2: fight the war are civilians. So when your children and 334 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 2: your grandchildren go into a military situation, you want the 335 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 2: best leader they can have because it's a life and 336 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 2: death situation for them in some scenarios. 337 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: And if you talk about ships in combat, it seems 338 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: to me that you have moments when you've got to 339 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: be able to repair. For example, if you get hit 340 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: by a missole or hit bio, you hit a mind, 341 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: You've got to have people capable of doing the work. 342 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: You do. If you put technology between the individual and 343 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: the combat, it's a whole different scenario. Two. For example, 344 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: flying an airplane flying and F thirty five flying and 345 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 2: F twenty two. There's no significant difference between the male 346 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 2: and the female capability to do that when you're operating 347 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 2: a system. It's when you get into the real hand 348 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: to hand or person to person type combat scenarios that 349 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 2: it makes such a big difference. 350 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: Are you seeing any changes in attitudes or under what 351 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: circumstance can we get back to a defense focused military. 352 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: That is the question but that is a tough question. 353 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 2: What's the path to recovery. I think it's policy based. 354 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: In the military, your incentives are a promotion and the 355 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 2: civilian world, your incentives are financial normally, and in the military, 356 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: since most military people retire at a relatively early age, 357 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 2: there's a financial incentive beyond that to get promoted to 358 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: your top rank. So when you look at incentives, and 359 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 2: a lot of this is based on how things are incentivized, 360 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 2: they're not incentivized to put things back on the right track. 361 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 2: How do you change that? And it gets down to 362 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 2: understanding what a constitutional republic is in my mind, understanding 363 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: that a strong defense is one of the fundamental pillars 364 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 2: of that, and then a policy that allows the senior 365 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 2: military leaders to be aggressive and manage that route back 366 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 2: to success. One of the most disappointing things that we've 367 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: had is the number of flag and general officers that 368 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 2: are willing to speak out. There are some, but I 369 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,719 Speaker 2: often wonder why there aren't more. And part of that 370 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 2: is because it's not incentivized in the promotion criteria that 371 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 2: go into achieving more senior ranks. I think that's a 372 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 2: good part of it. 373 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: It seems to me that beginning with Obama, there was 374 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: a certain amount of political shift in the Pentagon that 375 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: was pretty aggressive, and you can see the impact in 376 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: terms of who's gotten promoted and what they're willing to do, 377 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: and the degree to which they sort of use ideological 378 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: language to replace reality. If we can win the Diversity 379 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: Award while we're getting annihilated, at least we'll have the diversity. 380 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 2: Award, I think, taken to the extreme, that's exactly the 381 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 2: question that's in a lot of our minds. The establishment 382 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 2: of diversity offices in some of the institutions has been 383 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 2: interesting to watch too. And there's another factor underneath all this, 384 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 2: which is that words matter, words like diversity and equity 385 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 2: and inclusion. Nobody can argue with diversity being a good thing. 386 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 2: Nobody can argue with inclusion of being a good thing. 387 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 2: Equity where equal outcomes are assured as opposed to equal opportunities, 388 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: is another story. I think the words often disguise the agenda, 389 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 2: and should you attack an agenda with a certain set 390 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 2: of words, is not uncommon to see the words change, 391 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 2: but the agenda stay. 392 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: Well. I noticed that you all came up with three 393 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: alternative words merit, excellence, and intelligence. 394 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 2: Actually that came from Alexander Wang, who is a CEO 395 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 2: of a tech startup related to artificial intelligence. Very smart guy. 396 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 2: He said, we're not going to do DEI, We're going 397 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 2: to do MAI. And we've always felt that if you 398 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 2: really understand the words, the MEI is merit, excellence, and intelligence. 399 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 2: I think we're the three words. If you really understand 400 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 2: what those three words mean, they mean something that almost 401 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 2: pushes you to be excellent, you know, as opposed to 402 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 2: allowing folks to have outcomes that are not based on 403 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 2: getting the best person into the best job. And I 404 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 2: think he's carried that out. One other quick comment on 405 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 2: the industry side, there have been twenty five major corporations 406 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: now that have backed off of the DEI. Part of 407 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 2: that was written into the regulatory agencies that you know, 408 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 2: inspect annual reports from industry and things like that, and 409 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: it was almost like the military. There was a certain 410 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 2: set of criteria companies were supposed to meet. Sometimes it 411 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 2: was called a different three letter acronym, but it was 412 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 2: the same thing. But the companies are backing away from it, 413 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 2: and the reason is their shareholders don't see value in it. 414 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 2: It doesn't add value to the bottom line and it 415 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 2: consumes resources. Well, there's no reason why that same thing 416 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 2: doesn't apply to the military. 417 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: I think the combination of things like the Afghanistan withdraw, 418 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: the failure to win after twenty two years of war, 419 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: all of that, plus this emphasis on social goals that 420 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: are non military. You know, trust and confidence in the 421 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: American military has dropped from seventy percent in twenty eighteen 422 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: to just forty six percent last year. And that's a 423 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: twenty four percent And it's no wonder if that's what's 424 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: happening that you have a harder time with recruitment and 425 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: retention exactly. 426 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 2: And I think what kids that are taught coming up 427 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 2: through the public school system, particularly private schools, is a 428 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 2: little bit different by the public school system. I mean, 429 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 2: when's the last time you heard an elementary school class 430 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 2: through the pledge of allegiance, Or when's the last time 431 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 2: you saw an American flag in a classroom. There's other 432 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 2: flags in the classroom, but there's not American flags, at 433 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 2: least not very often. Young kids are not in viewed 434 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 2: with the patriotic flavor that most of us had in 435 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 2: our generation. 436 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: I was struck though, well, the army and the Navy 437 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: and the Air Force are having a challenge meeting their 438 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 1: recruiting goals. The Space Corps and the Marine Corps are not. 439 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: I kind of understand the Space Corps because it's small 440 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: and it has the adventure of going into space. But 441 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: in your own mind, since the Marines are a part 442 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: of the Navy and a lot of Marine officers came 443 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: through Annapolis, why do you think the Marines are having 444 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: more more success of recruitment than the bigger services. 445 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 2: I think the Marines, and I know a lot of them, 446 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 2: and there are a lot of them in our program 447 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 2: of thirty five program and others that I got to 448 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 2: work with had the privilege of working with. I think 449 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 2: they have retained the warrior spirit. They've managed to somehow 450 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 2: keep that culture of the Marine Corps, and I think 451 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 2: people are attracted to join something that's a genuine team 452 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 2: and it's really the team aspect that's unique about the 453 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 2: Marine Corps or in some cases the special elite groups 454 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 2: like the Seals or people like that, the band of 455 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 2: brothers kind of concept, and they've been able to retain that. 456 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 2: And I think their pride in the country, their pride 457 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 2: in their uniform, the pride in what they do as 458 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 2: a mission attracts people. There's still great people out there 459 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 2: that want to come in. It's just getting the numbers 460 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 2: that you need to man the force that's such a 461 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 2: challenge right now. 462 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining me. Your new 463 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: book with the Calvert Task Group is Don't Give Up 464 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: the Ship. Woke politics are endangering our military and our nation. 465 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: It's an interesting read and available now on Amazon. Our 466 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: listeners can learn more about the Calvert Task Group at 467 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: Calverttaskgroup dot org. And I really appreciate Tom you taking 468 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: the time to share with us. 469 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: Yes, sir, I appreciate you having us on and it's 470 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 2: great to see you again, and I wish you all 471 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 2: the best and hopefully we'll come through with changing direction 472 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 2: on the coorsinations on. 473 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,479 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Captain Tom Burbage. You can 474 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: get a link to buy his new book, Don't Give 475 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: Up the Ship on our show page at Newtsworld dot com. 476 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: Newsworld is produced by GINGRIDH three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our 477 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 478 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. 479 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at gingwidh three sixty. If 480 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple 481 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give 482 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about. 483 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld consign up for my three 484 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: free weekly columns at gingrichtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. 485 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: I'm Nute Gingrich. This is Nutsworld.