Speaker 1: There's a reason there's no one like me on earth
Speaker 1: that does my kind of comedy. What it takes to
Speaker 1: live that whole life and then to find the humor
Speaker 1: out of it, and then to build something with it.
Speaker 1: You building a comedy business to a stage where the
Speaker 1: world even has any awareness that you exist is a
Speaker 1: whole process that you have to learn how to create.
Speaker 1: That is one of the bigger regrets of my life.
Speaker 1: My only consolation is this that had I started sooner,
Speaker 1: I would have been a voice like every other voice,
Speaker 1: complaining about the same things, because I wouldn't have had
Speaker 1: the perspective that I have today.
Speaker 2: I can't believe I got to talk to today's guest.
Speaker 2: To be honest, I don't think I've been this nervous
Speaker 2: to interview a guest since Stacy Abrams, and that was
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, and I'll never forget leading
Speaker 2: up to that interview, I had stress nightmares. But with Zarna,
Speaker 2: this has been completely different. So Zarna has written this
Speaker 2: incredible memoir and I'm not even gonna lie. I was
Speaker 2: more of a fan of Zarna after I read this
Speaker 2: memoir than I was before. I loved her comedy. I
Speaker 2: think her comedy is very particular. It is smart, it
Speaker 2: is witty, it's of course hilarious. As a mom myself,
Speaker 2: I really appreciate a woman who is building a career
Speaker 2: based on making fun of her kids, and I just
Speaker 2: feel like that's my love language and the fact that
Speaker 2: she's monetized it like that is the dream. But getting
Speaker 2: to know her personal story, I mean, when you set
Speaker 2: across from someone and you know their entire life story
Speaker 2: because they have poured it out onto the page and
Speaker 2: you get to see them and they're speaking to you
Speaker 2: when so much was up against them from the moment
Speaker 2: they were born. It is such a unique privilege, an
Speaker 2: opportunity like Zarna exists the way that she exists, and
Speaker 2: she put herself on this global stage in her forties, y'all,
Speaker 2: her mid forties. Now she's in her fifth decade of life,
Speaker 2: and her curve is soaring. She's developing a sitcom with
Speaker 2: Mindy Kaling Kevin Hart. Like you know you're a big
Speaker 2: deal when you got Mindy Kayling and Kevin Hart on
Speaker 2: speed Dial. Okay, she has her own Amazon Prime special,
Speaker 2: One in a Billion. She's got another one coming on
Speaker 2: on Hulu. Zarnagarg Is that girl. All right, I embarrassed
Speaker 2: the hell out of myself on the internet. After I
Speaker 2: finished her memoir, I was listening to it, laughing my
Speaker 2: ass off. When I was doing the dishes. My husband
Speaker 2: would be like, what are you doing over there? What
Speaker 2: are you listening to? And I'm like, I can't stop.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to stop to explain to him what
Speaker 2: I was listening to because it was that good and
Speaker 2: I was so in the story with Zarna. So her
Speaker 2: memoir tells her life story from growing up the daughter,
Speaker 2: the oopsie, the oopsie daughter in her blended family in
Speaker 2: Mumbai in India. She really was left to her own devices,
Speaker 2: but in the meantime she flourished, like she turned into
Speaker 2: the most extraordinary, resilient intelligence and hilarious, warm hearted, good
Speaker 2: hearted human being. And you'll hear about her journey to America,
Speaker 2: what brought her here, and how she's built her family here.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna stop talking now so you can listen
Speaker 2: to Zarna and I and I just hope that you
Speaker 2: check out her memoir. I hope that it touches you
Speaker 2: the way that it touched me, and that you honestly
Speaker 2: leave this conversation feeling inspired ba fam the way that
Speaker 2: I was to not let age or life circumstance or
Speaker 2: any vision of well I should have done this by now,
Speaker 2: So it's too late for me. Throw that out the
Speaker 2: damn window. Because Zarna gives each of us permission to
Speaker 2: put ourselves out there and try something new, fail fast,
Speaker 2: try hard, keep going, embrace the failure because one day
Speaker 2: you will fly. And it's all down to Zarna and
Speaker 2: the insight, the wisdom, the passion, the levity, the heart.
Speaker 2: She brings to this conversation, to this book, to her work.
Speaker 2: Enjoying my interview with Zarnagard, how do you feel New
Speaker 2: York Times bestseller?
Speaker 1: You know, I have a real resistance to calling myself
Speaker 1: a writer or an author. I just am not able
Speaker 1: to do it.
Speaker 2: I heard.
Speaker 1: I feel good that somebody's enjoying the book.
Speaker 2: So what do you consider? I guess labels don't matter, but.
Speaker 1: I don't know. In my head, I'm running a tech company.
Speaker 1: In my head, I'm a software engineer.
Speaker 2: You've talked about that. I mean that was like the
Speaker 2: resistance your whole life. As we talk about your family
Speaker 2: chastising you, calling you like, oh, who do you think
Speaker 2: you are? An American woman and being even like hearing
Speaker 2: from your English teacher that you were a great writer
Speaker 2: and almost being ashamed of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh frightened. It was beyond shape. I was like,
Speaker 1: if my parents find out, I'm gonna be in so
Speaker 1: much trouble.
Speaker 2: Do you know I went to Burns and Noble and
Speaker 2: got this today.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: I listened to the audiobook because I knew it was
Speaker 2: gonna be good. I listened to the whole thing. And
Speaker 2: that is how I caught myself crying in the day
Speaker 2: care parking lot when I mean, I couldn't have like
Speaker 2: planned it more perfectly or imperfectly. Is that I literally
Speaker 2: was listening to the final chapter where you're thanking your
Speaker 2: brother and the loop is being the circle is being completed.
Speaker 2: You're bringing us back to that like sibling connection, and
Speaker 2: I am just ugly crying, Oh.
Speaker 1: My god, thank you. And that's the kind of comic
Speaker 1: I am.
Speaker 2: It's so but it's so it hurts so good. It's
Speaker 2: the pay. It's like why you want. I mean, I girl,
Speaker 2: you're a writer. I don't care what you say. That's
Speaker 2: why I read books. I mean, that's why I love
Speaker 2: stories so much. And I'm just so grateful, and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I'll get a couple of copies. I'll
Speaker 2: give it to a friend. But I don't think so,
Speaker 2: because the book has pictures, the actual physical book. So
Speaker 2: now I have this is like, you need the audio book,
Speaker 2: you need the physical book. You need them both because
Speaker 2: they each have a little something different.
Speaker 1: We did. We tried to create two different and unique experiences,
Speaker 1: so the book had photos all along and just trying
Speaker 1: to give god text to the story. Actually it wasn't
Speaker 1: about like, look at me, I'm famous, because I don't
Speaker 1: even think I'm famous. But I felt like if I'm
Speaker 1: telling the story and if I have some sort of
Speaker 1: photo to give context to it, it would be more
Speaker 1: fun for the for the reader. But then when we
Speaker 1: did the audio, I realized that the book people got
Speaker 1: something that the audio people won't. So we decided to
Speaker 1: do the family essays and that extra because it didn't
Speaker 1: feel right and I want it. I wanted each person
Speaker 1: to have their full experience of the Zara story.
Speaker 2: I did. I enjoyed. I had to wait for the
Speaker 2: family essays. It's a bit of a letdown. No offense
Speaker 2: to your beautiful husband, your son, Fridge. I just wanted
Speaker 2: to sit in my zarna love and so I did
Speaker 2: eventually get to them. I thought it was wonderful. So
Speaker 2: there's no getting around it. You are brilliant in your
Speaker 2: First of all, you are law school educated. You're educated
Speaker 2: out the wazoo, because of course you are an immigrant,
Speaker 2: Like that's just coming.
Speaker 1: That's what you know. You don't know anything else. So
Speaker 1: you're like, go to school.
Speaker 2: You've been raised, you know, an entrepreneurial family and used
Speaker 2: to read what was at the Indian Times, the.
Speaker 1: Times of India, the Times of India. I still do
Speaker 1: every single But how old were.
Speaker 2: You when you started? You were like five or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like the moment I opened
Speaker 1: my eyes, I started reading books and newspaper. I'm much
Speaker 1: more a current events girl. I'm not as much a
Speaker 1: literature girl. Like I haven't read every great literary class.
Speaker 1: I've read many of them, but that's not my obsession.
Speaker 1: My obsession is more every day of what's happening in
Speaker 1: the world. Who said, what, where's the war happening? Why
Speaker 1: is it happening? That type of stuff.
Speaker 2: It's like your feet are so grounded in reality and
Speaker 2: have been from such a young age. And I think,
Speaker 2: I mean, I just I wish, I honestly like as
Speaker 2: much as I am happy to know you now, I've
Speaker 2: never wanted to meet a five year old kid more
Speaker 2: than like five year old Zarni and I actually have
Speaker 2: a five year old. And I think part of the
Speaker 2: reason why I was so emotionally just impacted by your
Speaker 2: work is because I am in so many ways like
Speaker 2: living a similar I mean, that's obviously so different in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways, but raising young kids, but I
Speaker 2: completely I resonate with, like the financial challenges of raising children,
Speaker 2: and I'm not even trying to put my kids in
Speaker 2: private school.
Speaker 1: Don't do it a forty k year spoiler alert for
Speaker 1: those who want to read the book. That whole chapter
Speaker 1: I wrote for my fellow Tristate area moms because shed
Speaker 1: moms to know the truth of what I went through,
Speaker 1: what I felt, and how you actually didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: need to put myself through any of them. I just
Speaker 1: did it to myself, yeah, you know, and I really
Speaker 1: wrote it because that is something I deal with every day.
Speaker 1: Every day. I have a mom talk to me about
Speaker 1: how she's dying under the burden of this price tag,
Speaker 1: and it's insane and every day I'm trying to help
Speaker 1: somebody like navigate what's the better option around wherever she lives.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, like you said, four, I know, since so
Speaker 2: you put your kids through this, you know, private school
Speaker 2: on the Upper East Side? Was it in Manhattan? You
Speaker 2: have three children? But not all three of them went?
Speaker 2: It was your first two, right?
Speaker 1: All three?
Speaker 2: Oh, all three went?
Speaker 1: Okay? And I have to take all three out.
Speaker 2: Damn it. And and I I love the scrappiness of
Speaker 2: that story of you getting your kids into the New
Speaker 2: York public school system because I know how challenging it is.
Speaker 2: And I too was so confused because I'm from Georgia,
Speaker 2: which which is similar to I mean, it's like every
Speaker 2: other state, like where do you live? This is your school? Congratulations,
Speaker 2: not New York, not in New York. And so once
Speaker 2: you're in that system, how like how toxic it is
Speaker 2: and how they just they know they have you by
Speaker 2: the you know what's and that like mister potato head,
Speaker 2: which is what you've you know, for legal reasons, I'm
Speaker 2: sure call the what the director of admissions or whatever
Speaker 2: thinks he's the king of everything of this this private school.
Speaker 2: But forty k a year for kindergarten. I know it's
Speaker 2: like double.
Speaker 1: That now seventy yeah, Jesus, so I pay.
Speaker 2: I don't even want to think. But daycare, you have
Speaker 2: to understand. So did you ever pay for your kids.
Speaker 1: Daycare were little? So that's too expensive, that's true. But
Speaker 1: at least there's no other alternative to daycare. There's just
Speaker 1: not there's no place to put a six month old
Speaker 1: or ten month old. And I get it, and there
Speaker 1: actually I know what they're doing, like there's a human
Speaker 1: being taking care of two, three, four five babies at
Speaker 1: a time. The private school thing, I just don't get,
Speaker 1: Like algebra has not changed in one hundred years. Why
Speaker 1: it has become so prohibitive. It's become a status symbol.
Speaker 1: It's like buying a Gucci bag, Dacre. I've paid two
Speaker 1: and it's very, very very expensive for sure, and luckily
Speaker 1: it's a limited time and then you transition to school
Speaker 1: and then that's where it needs to be. You don't
Speaker 1: write that kind of check for anything else. You do
Speaker 1: it for your kids.
Speaker 2: You can't fathom you breaking out into the comedy scene.
Speaker 2: You were forty something, forty forty four, forty four and
Speaker 2: you doing it not just I mean, I know you
Speaker 2: started a little bit before the pandemic, and then your
Speaker 2: husband lost his job, and then it became less about
Speaker 2: you exploring this new path and being like, oh, I
Speaker 2: now I'm going to save the family with this career.
Speaker 2: You felt called to do it, but the level of
Speaker 2: courage to break out and try something different at that
Speaker 2: stage in life when you talk about feeling as if
Speaker 2: you were a stay at home mom for all those
Speaker 2: year sixteen something years that you talk about, feeling like
Speaker 2: the rest of the world had moved on, and how
Speaker 2: you were kind of left behind, I mean, it resonated
Speaker 2: so much. Do you still look back at those years
Speaker 2: when you were a stay at home mom with all
Speaker 2: this talent and all this untapped intelligence in your mind?
Speaker 2: You look back and wonder what if I had started sooner?
Speaker 2: Or are you all peace.
Speaker 1: All the time? I have so many regrets, even though
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have regrets and you shouldn't look back. And
Speaker 1: everybody says that, and I say it to other people.
Speaker 1: No one wins against age, so it's like a thing.
Speaker 1: My only consolation is that I really wouldn't have the
Speaker 1: stories that I have today. There's a reason there's no
Speaker 1: one like me on earth that does my kind of comedy.
Speaker 1: It's not just here, it's no one in India, there's
Speaker 1: no one in all of Asia. Because what it takes
Speaker 1: to live that whole life and then to find the
Speaker 1: humor out of it and then to build something with it,
Speaker 1: those are all individual, huge, humongous steps that you have
Speaker 1: to take. If building a comedy business to a stage
Speaker 1: where the world even has any awareness that you exist
Speaker 1: is a whole process that you have to learn how
Speaker 1: to create. So I have a lot of regrets, but
Speaker 1: I really do work on not dwelling on them. It's
Speaker 1: a constant battle though. That is one of the bigger
Speaker 1: regrets of my life. My only consolation is this that
Speaker 1: had I started sooner, I would have been a voice
Speaker 1: like every other voice, complaining about the same things, because
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have had the perspective that I have today
Speaker 1: as the mother of these grown kids, having gone through
Speaker 1: this whole cycle, and that that was the gift that
Speaker 1: Destiny decided to give me, and I have to accept
Speaker 1: it in grace and not be a brat about it.
Speaker 2: Okay, ba fam, I don't want to, but we got
Speaker 2: to take a break. We got to pay some bills.
Speaker 2: Zarna would not be happy with me if she knew
Speaker 2: that I wasn't going to monetize this episode, because she
Speaker 2: is all about that money. Honey. I'll be right back
Speaker 2: with more of my chat with the ZARNI you're making
Speaker 2: me like want to own my momminess. I struggle with
Speaker 2: this a little bit, so I and also so many
Speaker 2: things I want to say, But I want to first
Speaker 2: of all, I want to let you know that from
Speaker 2: the other side, looking at your journey, I'm like, maybe
Speaker 2: that's the way to do it. I should have married
Speaker 2: a rich wall streeter. I should have like had the
Speaker 2: kids and been the stay at home mom because I'm
Speaker 2: a dummy. I feel like a dummy. I'm like trying
Speaker 2: to do it all at the same times. Arna, I
Speaker 2: am God.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's get into it.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, my husband's texted me, now what time?
Speaker 2: I don't listen. My husband literally just texted me, what
Speaker 2: time are you gonna pick the kids up? Don't know,
Speaker 2: don't care. I'm talking to Arna. I don't know. But
Speaker 2: it's so hard, it's so bad, and I don't have
Speaker 2: a village. My mommy doesn't live here, you know.
Speaker 1: Thank God, I have one village who came up with that.
Speaker 1: I was always looking, I was where is the village?
Speaker 2: Well, everywhere but America. That's like you know, you've you've
Speaker 2: talked about wanting to have I listened to your Your
Speaker 2: Family podcast, which is so cute. What a great memory
Speaker 2: for your kids. Eventually, one day they'll probably well hopefully.
Speaker 1: They not don't get canceled out of the job market, but.
Speaker 2: Okay, well they'll probably be business entrepreneurs anymore. Uh. But
Speaker 2: like you talk about wanting to wage war on American motherhood, Yeah,
Speaker 2: can we wage that work? Do you need recruits?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, don't you think it's it's insane that
Speaker 1: this way to fulfill all the obligations to everybody's satisfaction.
Speaker 1: I'm constantly even today letting some teachers down in my kids'
Speaker 1: school because I didn't show up for this that or
Speaker 1: the other thing, or you know, forgetting something work wise
Speaker 1: because something at my kids school took over and like
Speaker 1: completely consume me. There's no way. And I have so
Speaker 1: much empathy for where you are, Mandy. I've been there,
Speaker 1: and it's it just feels like it's it's going to
Speaker 1: drown you. It feels like it's gonna drown you. And
Speaker 1: the one big gift of my career right now that
Speaker 1: has been unexpected because I didn't see it until somebody
Speaker 1: mentioned it to me, is that a lot of young
Speaker 1: moms like yourself with young kids are actually taking up
Speaker 1: and saying, you know what, maybe we should take a
Speaker 1: break or go slow these years because I can come
Speaker 1: back and have a real career. And this is something
Speaker 1: they are learning from me that it is possible. It's
Speaker 1: not easy. Nothing in life is easy, but it is
Speaker 1: possible to be that mom when you need to be
Speaker 1: that mom if you can afford to be that mom,
Speaker 1: or whatever version of it you can afford to be.
Speaker 1: And then say that once these kids are out of
Speaker 1: this certain stage, I'm gonna go all in because it's very,
Speaker 1: very hard. But it's a hard thing. It was very
Speaker 1: hard for me, it still is. I travel. The only
Speaker 1: way to make a living really as a comic is
Speaker 1: to be on the road. So it's a concept. I
Speaker 1: still have a thirteen year old son at home, which everywhere,
Speaker 1: no matter what time zone I'm in, I'm like, did
Speaker 1: you eat? Did you feel this paper? Your teacher when
Speaker 1: they called they don't know where I am I'll get
Speaker 1: a call at two am in Hawaii because I'm there
Speaker 1: for a work I'm not there to hang out, and
Speaker 1: my phone will ring. And you know when your kids
Speaker 1: school calls, you just jump up.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's stressful, and you don't know what time it is.
Speaker 2: You're trying to think backwards, like wait, is this is
Speaker 2: he in school? Is this thing?
Speaker 1: Like immediately i'mause, okay, okay, are you okay? Did everything
Speaker 1: you know? And it's like that's all our lives. So
Speaker 1: you the thing you have to do is give yourself grace.
Speaker 1: And also, no one else will if you don't give
Speaker 1: yourself grace and take care of yourself. However that self
Speaker 1: care is no one will do it for you. No
Speaker 1: one in this country is going to ask the mother,
Speaker 1: what do you need? That is gone. Even the politicians say,
Speaker 1: oh lie, you know that, Oh we're gonna do this
Speaker 1: for the moms. They're doing nothing.
Speaker 2: You and I are in the same page when I
Speaker 2: heard you say, no one gets a shot moms, No
Speaker 2: one gets a shop moms or kids in this country,
Speaker 2: like full stop.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately women neither. So it's like a triple web.
Speaker 2: And you're and you know, you're like it's the biggest
Speaker 2: let down. But it's also there's this part in the book.
Speaker 2: You have all these great quotes. I love that you
Speaker 2: quote yourself too. You're like, yes, this is my wisdom.
Speaker 2: It's pain. You say, pain is my destiny and my
Speaker 2: company and my affinity. Embracing pain and not wasting time
Speaker 2: wondering why me will put you on the fast track
Speaker 2: to success. And I think, as a mom, I've stopped
Speaker 2: expecting anyone else to make it easier, and.
Speaker 1: You may as well, because it's not going to happen.
Speaker 1: In my experience, it's not going to happen.
Speaker 2: Now, Well, talk to me about you're raising your kids
Speaker 2: on the Upper East Side of Manhattan and you are
Speaker 2: putting them in these fancy schools and all of that.
Speaker 2: How did you connect with the other moms? Like were
Speaker 2: there other moms like you so.
Speaker 1: In the fancy, expensive schools. I knew I was a
Speaker 1: misfit on day one, Like I just knew that this,
Speaker 1: Like I really thought, Oh, for my kid's future, this
Speaker 1: is what I have to do. I don't relate to
Speaker 1: any of these people, but this is where good education is.
Speaker 1: So we're going to do this. And as time wre on,
Speaker 1: what I learned is that what they consider education and
Speaker 1: what I consider education but just two different things. To me,
Speaker 1: that felt like a country club and everything was the
Speaker 1: axis was revolving around, like we need to have these
Speaker 1: many days off, extra days off because we need to
Speaker 1: be able to travel to all these exotic locations, Like
Speaker 1: that would never factor in the life that I live.
Speaker 1: The life that I live, I work every single day,
Speaker 1: even now every holiday, every every day I'm working. It
Speaker 1: never occurs to me that I should take extra time
Speaker 1: off to fly to the other side of earth. Like
Speaker 1: if I really really want to take a vacation, I
Speaker 1: fly to Florida three hours. Like my math is already
Speaker 1: doing all the calculation and how much time this is
Speaker 1: gonna take. So what I learned very early is that
Speaker 1: this type of schooling is not only not giving the
Speaker 1: education that I value, which is very basic, hardcore math,
Speaker 1: science reading, Like I don't need the fluff. I don't
Speaker 1: want the class in Japanese that two kids are gonna
Speaker 1: take and the school is very proud to offer. I
Speaker 1: just want you to teach my kids the basics. And
Speaker 1: so what I found is that they don't actually care
Speaker 1: about the basics. They spend a lot of money on
Speaker 1: all these exotic things and additions that I don't care about.
Speaker 1: And mostly I felt like the one thing that made
Speaker 1: New York New York I was losing in private school,
Speaker 1: I was losing the entire grittiness of it. The whole
Speaker 1: school is constantly working to remove every weed off the
Speaker 1: road for the kids, and to me, the education is
Speaker 1: in the weeds. The education is in the everyday, daily
Speaker 1: frustrations of how do you do thick For example, the
Speaker 1: experience that you just shared right now, where you don't
Speaker 1: have a village, you're running to your mother in law
Speaker 1: dropping a kid. Then the school is closed. As painful
Speaker 1: as it is in the moment, and I know it's
Speaker 1: very painful, I've lived it. Believe me, when you come
Speaker 1: out from the other side of it, having lived through
Speaker 1: this is going to make you a better not only
Speaker 1: a better human being, because who cares about that, it's
Speaker 1: going to make you a better business person.
Speaker 2: Going to say, we'll make me some money. By the way,
Speaker 2: I were green for you.
Speaker 1: I love it. I was like, I've been so admiring im.
Speaker 1: She looks good.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, for you, I will put on a lip.
Speaker 1: I feel so honored.
Speaker 2: I've already been to Barnes and Noble. This morning, I
Speaker 2: put on a red lip. I was like skipping through
Speaker 2: lambs buying.
Speaker 1: The book at Barnes and Noble. I was so frustrated
Speaker 1: because the week we hit the New York Times Bestseller list,
Speaker 1: they put all the other books out on the best
Speaker 1: seller table and not ours.
Speaker 2: I don't want to make you upset because I fixed it,
Speaker 2: But do you know where I found your book? I
Speaker 2: looked at all you know, they had that big display,
Speaker 2: and I live in a really diverse area. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, I expect to see a diverse selection, and
Speaker 2: they have one. But I wasn't seeing your book anywhere.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I can't be missing this. This is a
Speaker 2: This cover is extraordinary. And the kind woman at the
Speaker 2: front desk, she was or at the cashier, she was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's back. There's like a pillar in the humor section.
Speaker 2: While the humor section is like the skinniest column on
Speaker 2: the back of a thing, it wasn't facing out. I
Speaker 2: was like, this is a New York Times bestseller. So
Speaker 2: I took the copies that were there and I move
Speaker 2: them to the new and Noteworthy table.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're so sweet. But this is this
Speaker 1: is a thing. The system is not designed to help us.
Speaker 1: And I hit the metric just like every other book,
Speaker 1: because in the past they would be like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: no one's buying it, but we're out selling almost every book.
Speaker 1: Like if you look on Amazon, it's a best seller.
Speaker 1: Now three four weeks later, we're hitting every metric. But
Speaker 1: the system is not designed to help us. Like they
Speaker 1: get a list from their you know, superiors or whoever,
Speaker 1: and the list is usually names that they recognize. They
Speaker 1: don't recognize the names Arena, so they're like, oh, just
Speaker 1: stick her in the back somewhere. And this is something
Speaker 1: also I deal with all the time, and I just
Speaker 1: choose to see the humor in it because there is
Speaker 1: no point yelling and screaming about all this. There's just
Speaker 1: no point. It's not going to resolve the issue. I
Speaker 1: choose to come with love, even though it does infuriate me.
Speaker 1: It does infuriate me that like, why aren't you just
Speaker 1: giving me equal treatment? I'm not asking for anything better.
Speaker 2: But let's cover. Yeah, how do you how do you
Speaker 2: make a cover like that? Did I just have someone
Speaker 2: in a green hoodie?
Speaker 1: I was a big guy and a cat stainted green,
Speaker 1: and he had to like lift me so we could
Speaker 1: get I was so scary. I was, guy's gonna break
Speaker 1: his back? What are we doing? And the photographer was like,
Speaker 1: just we're gonna get it. We're gonna get it. And
Speaker 1: then I had to like kick my leg up in
Speaker 1: the air. And I don't do this stuff, you know.
Speaker 1: I just stand like a goofball and smile with my
Speaker 1: mouth open, my teeth showing. So I I but he
Speaker 1: was the photographer whose vision it was. C. J. Burton,
Speaker 1: this digital photographer in la is such a nice guy.
Speaker 1: He was like, you, I was very intent on having
Speaker 1: a fun cover. What I didn't want is like, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of biographies and memoirs will have the close
Speaker 1: up of the author's face and it's very deep in thought,
Speaker 1: black and white. It's like, look at me, I'm so serious,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to have fun with it. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not so serious. If you meet me in real life,
Speaker 1: I will make a joke about anything. So he came up.
Speaker 1: We came up with a few concepts, but this one
Speaker 1: was what felt like the most ambitious version. But when
Speaker 1: I saw the guy who had to lift me. Is
Speaker 1: a big guy, and he was poor guy. His whole forearm,
Speaker 1: everything was painted guilty and the poor guy was stuck
Speaker 1: the whole day in not being able to use his
Speaker 1: arms because they didn't want to mess up the painting.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so I've had so much empathy. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm so sorry. He's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm done. I haven't had water since exam.
Speaker 2: We got to hold up the national treasure that is arnegarg.
Speaker 2: I bet he was stoked. Plus you're so petite.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I am not so purtite. It was
Speaker 1: not easy. I'm really heavy and I felt it that day.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I was just of
Speaker 1: all the times I wish I had lost weight, today
Speaker 1: is the most important day, man.
Speaker 2: So you know a mutual friend of ours is for
Speaker 2: a news to Robbie.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love her, so.
Speaker 2: I've you know, we're in the same kind of like
Speaker 2: financial podcasting space and yeah, yeah, so she's wonderful. She
Speaker 2: hosted an event for you in Jersey. Was it during
Speaker 2: your book launch? And I was listening to your interview
Speaker 2: with her and I was like, come on, zarn, I
Speaker 2: don't tell me that you don't love your body. I'm like,
Speaker 2: that's the that's what I thought was supposed to happen
Speaker 2: when you're in your like forties, fifties, sixties, like you
Speaker 2: just love it.
Speaker 1: No, because the reality of being overweight hits you, hits you.
Speaker 1: It's not the vanity. Honestly, it's not the vanity. I
Speaker 1: don't really care. I'm not out there looking for a guy.
Speaker 1: It's not that. It's the real statistics of what being
Speaker 1: overweight means in terms of health, you know, and you
Speaker 1: want to live like now, I want to live to
Speaker 1: torture my daughter in law.
Speaker 2: Right, and they don't get they don't get married so young. No, No,
Speaker 2: she got to live really long.
Speaker 1: You got it. Yeah, So it's that. But you know,
Speaker 1: ever since I've found how to dress for my work,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm more at peace. For a long time,
Speaker 1: I was just not at peace with my body. I
Speaker 1: don't get into that with the book, but because it's
Speaker 1: not really part of the story in that way. But
Speaker 1: to be on and to be making jokes for as
Speaker 1: long as I do hour hour and a half straight
Speaker 1: in front of huge audiences. I just did five thousand
Speaker 1: people recently in Vegas, to be able to do that.
Speaker 1: You're very comfortable in your skin and in your body
Speaker 1: and in how the world is looking at you. And
Speaker 1: until I learned to dress for myself and figure out
Speaker 1: an outfit uniform that works for me, I just wasn't there.
Speaker 1: It was very hard for me to make my peace
Speaker 1: with Oh my god, people are gonna see me. They'll
Speaker 1: take photographs from this side and this side, and like,
Speaker 1: what am I going to look like? I figured out
Speaker 1: an outfit that felt simple but representative of me, and
Speaker 1: now I don't really care take a photo from any anger.
Speaker 1: I don't care because I feel like I'm covered and
Speaker 1: I look decent and elegant, and I'm good with that.
Speaker 2: You were trying to find your look, and I did
Speaker 2: think that that was highly relevant, just for anyone who's
Speaker 2: not even about being on a stage, but just like
Speaker 2: going through life and maybe your body is, you know,
Speaker 2: not the body that it was twenty years ago, pre
Speaker 2: kids or whatever, and just I thought it was a
Speaker 2: great testament to the power of making clothes for the
Speaker 2: body you have now, and like getting a look that
Speaker 2: makes you feel comfortable and a thousand percent there is
Speaker 2: something that happens when you're wearing something that just makes
Speaker 2: you feel good. Yeah, that gives you the confidence to
Speaker 2: do a scary thing.
Speaker 1: One hundred and ten percent. And I'm telling you that
Speaker 1: I appreciate that I had the good sense to stick
Speaker 1: with it because people in India, especially fashionable people, make
Speaker 1: fun of me all the time. Even right now. They think, Oh,
Speaker 1: you wear the same thing in four different colors. What
Speaker 1: is that belt? Because the belt is not an Indian thing.
Speaker 1: We in Indian clothes usually are not belted the way
Speaker 1: I built them. Here, I added that, and I get
Speaker 1: my tailor to make the belt for me. It was
Speaker 1: a process to learn how to do it, and you know,
Speaker 1: but I wanted it because I felt like in America
Speaker 1: it needed to look a certain way. Whatever it is.
Speaker 1: It was my decision and my process. But people make
Speaker 1: fun of me constantly. They are fashion blogs that feel
Speaker 1: free to pick on me, and you know, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: here comes the American Indian because they think that I've
Speaker 1: created this crazy outfit. But I don't care because I
Speaker 1: feel good in it and I feel like my audience
Speaker 1: sees me for what I'm trying to show them that
Speaker 1: I am Indian, that I am a certain type of
Speaker 1: you know, person, I believe in dressing modestly. I don't
Speaker 1: need to show any more than you can see. So
Speaker 1: it was a process, and really I started doing it
Speaker 1: more and more because it affects the business. It's again
Speaker 1: not a vanity thing. The better you look, the more
Speaker 1: confident you are, the more confident you feel, the more
Speaker 1: money you will make. It translates into real dollars and cents.
Speaker 1: And that's actually pretty undeniable at this point because there's
Speaker 1: even data out there to support it. But I never
Speaker 1: till forty four, never wore a lick of makeup. Never.
Speaker 1: I used to go to weddings with like a little
Speaker 1: touch of vasiline on my lips. That's it. I can
Speaker 1: show you wedding photos Bathleene.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you can't have ashy lips at least you
Speaker 2: put that on.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's that simple. Because as a consumer of
Speaker 1: pop culture, I used to always think, how crazy is
Speaker 1: this woman? Or why is this man getting another like whatever, liposuction?
Speaker 1: What why would you do that? I would never And
Speaker 1: now I know why they're doing it. They're doing it
Speaker 1: for their business.
Speaker 2: Well can we talk about business? Because you are a
Speaker 2: business guru like I don't almost. I'm a little afraid
Speaker 2: that a bunch of people are going to try to have,
Speaker 2: like you know, these creative careers in their mid forty
Speaker 2: late forties, inspired by your story, if they don't understand
Speaker 2: that you didn't just try it out like you went
Speaker 2: full tilt, like I am going to be the Zuckerberger
Speaker 2: of comedians, I'm going to be the Serena Williams of comedy.
Speaker 2: And really think of it from a business standpoint, and
Speaker 2: you made some choices. You chose to keep your comedy clean,
Speaker 2: which I'm not sure that just means no curse.
Speaker 1: Words basically pretty much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I heard a joke
Speaker 2: where you called your your mother in law the sea word.
Speaker 1: So there's a few handful of jokes where I have
Speaker 1: cursed words that I use in the clubs all the
Speaker 1: time and depending on the book. But I have replacements
Speaker 1: for all those words for my corporate shows. So I
Speaker 1: do shows that have the same jokes but with the replacement,
Speaker 1: which is also as funny because the money is in
Speaker 1: clean comedy. If you see all the big comics and
Speaker 1: how they translate to bigger, big gigs, it's all clean
Speaker 1: comedy unless you're that niche comic one in a billion
Speaker 1: who becomes known for their dirty humor. And I wouldn't
Speaker 1: even know what to say, honestly, Like I'm not sex
Speaker 1: stuff like that, Like I have nothing to say in
Speaker 1: that space. What you mean?
Speaker 2: I mean, I know what jokes were you were, you
Speaker 2: were Dragon shell Ub around, you know, making out in
Speaker 2: the in the cab when you first met him. If
Speaker 2: you guys, I don't want to. I can talk about
Speaker 2: everything I want to keep about, you know, the fun
Speaker 2: money stuff, but the story of you and Shellubs like
Speaker 2: courtship and oh I loved it so much. It was
Speaker 2: so cute. I can see how y'all fell in love
Speaker 2: through letters. You're both so funny and both so steeped
Speaker 2: in reality that you're like calling each other out on
Speaker 2: you know, your bs and ah, what a sweet. Well. Actually,
Speaker 2: I am going to give shell up some shine because
Speaker 2: there's this part in the book, multiple parts where just
Speaker 2: it's like that Grinch, the moment in the Grinch, you know,
Speaker 2: the Grinch, the green guy, and his heart just grows
Speaker 2: take a yeah, and then his heart just grows like
Speaker 2: three times bigger. And there's moments in your book that
Speaker 2: do that for me, and one of them is your
Speaker 2: beautiful husband of twenty five years. Yeah, when y'all are
Speaker 2: at a dinner with like some of his hoity toity
Speaker 2: Wall Street friends and their wives, and at this point,
Speaker 2: you are determined to figure out what this stage of
Speaker 2: your life's going to be. At your you're feeling like
Speaker 2: something is missing, so you're trying to start all these businesses,
Speaker 2: like a toothbrush business, a chill a vegan chili business,
Speaker 2: all these things, and they're kind of like they're kind
Speaker 2: of ribbing you about it in a way that's not
Speaker 2: so kind, and your husban and like, don't worry. They're
Speaker 2: just afraid that when you actually find your thing, you're
Speaker 2: going to become unstoppable. And he just says it so
Speaker 2: nonchalantly and just continues eating his dinner.
Speaker 1: That's his special talent.
Speaker 2: Sweet, so romantic forget roses, like defend my greatness in
Speaker 2: front of all your friends and also make them feel
Speaker 2: in the process.
Speaker 1: For me, it's true, he is particularly adept at that
Speaker 1: type of dialogue. And that's in real life who he is.
Speaker 1: He's not one to make grand statements. He barely speaks.
Speaker 1: I mean, if he says five words in a day
Speaker 1: that's a lot. So he just engages when he feels
Speaker 1: like he absolutely must, and otherwise he's kind of like
Speaker 1: he's a little flighty in his everyday life. A lot
Speaker 1: of people would be like, he just saw right through me.
Speaker 1: I saw him on the street. He didn't say hello.
Speaker 1: But it's not him being disrespectful. He really lives in
Speaker 1: his own world of numbers and like he's thinking about
Speaker 1: what trade he made and what he wants to make
Speaker 1: and how is that math gonna work out? And like
Speaker 1: he's like a happy, flighty math guy.
Speaker 2: Intellect cerebral, Yeah, yeah, I mean I.
Speaker 1: Don't even I find it hard to call him an
Speaker 1: intellect because he's not that smart. He does ridiculously stupid
Speaker 1: things everything. I remember when I was newly married to him,
Speaker 1: I was like, how are these people paying you? You
Speaker 1: can't figure anything out?
Speaker 2: Well, there's number smart, I guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, he is. He's like, but he doesn't wear
Speaker 1: his intellect. You know. Some successful people like to talk
Speaker 1: like their fonts of wisdom, Like they will release tweets
Speaker 1: like like God has spoken. There will be LinkedIn articles
Speaker 1: from them, like you know, the state of the affair
Speaker 1: that is not my husband at all, never was even
Speaker 1: in his most successful he was like, can I just
Speaker 1: go to bed? Please don't invite me, Please, God, don't
Speaker 1: invite me to all these events, Like I don't want
Speaker 1: to be there. I want to be home. I want
Speaker 1: to be like taking a nap. So he was always
Speaker 1: that simple guy, and he still is, like he barely communicates,
Speaker 1: and when he's he's definitely him. And I have a
Speaker 1: friendship that is above everything else. So if he finds
Speaker 1: that people are making fun of me, which happens all
Speaker 1: the time, I mean it happens even now. But back
Speaker 1: during the transition phase before I found comedy, it was peak.
Speaker 1: I mean I was ripe for jokes for everybody because
Speaker 1: I also, in defense of all of them, I didn't
Speaker 1: just start businesses. I started businesses.
Speaker 2: I don't do anything.
Speaker 1: Here's my website, here's my card, here's you know, my
Speaker 1: entire vision. I didn't just start a business. I saw
Speaker 1: a billion dollar vision instantly. In every failed business, you know,
Speaker 1: some people would be like work in silence. No, No,
Speaker 1: that was not me. So people had a lot to
Speaker 1: pick on. I gave them a lot to pick on.
Speaker 1: So my husband, when he would step in, would be
Speaker 1: like you know, they're just all nervous because none of
Speaker 1: them are even trying anything.
Speaker 2: M hmm. They don't know what to do with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't know, and they didn't come from the
Speaker 1: world where all you did. I didn't think of myself
Speaker 1: as somebody whose life's goal was to support her husband.
Speaker 1: It was a part of my job as a wife,
Speaker 1: a mother, and a homemaker, but I didn't see it
Speaker 1: as the be all and end all of my identity.
Speaker 1: Like I never was that woman who wanted to go
Speaker 1: places and be like I am missus so and so,
Speaker 1: no matter who the husband was, no matter if he
Speaker 1: was a billionaire or whatever. Like I was always inside
Speaker 1: my body fighting for my own like what is my
Speaker 1: journey in this life? Like? What is my thing? And
Speaker 1: how am I gonna find it?
Speaker 2: I mean, can we just go back in time a
Speaker 2: little bit, because as you're talking about that sort of
Speaker 2: not seeing yourself as fulfilling the life goal for your
Speaker 2: husband and finding your own purpose, I mean that was
Speaker 2: so innate in you from a young age. I mean
Speaker 2: you were a teenager when your husband you write about
Speaker 2: this in the book, not your husband, sorry, your your father.
Speaker 2: After your mother passed away, was pretty much ready to
Speaker 2: throw you away and say I'm going to marry you off.
Speaker 2: You're a teenager. You're thirteen fourteen, yeah at this age,
Speaker 2: which is not uncommon right in India even today, And you,
Speaker 2: as a teenager, said I would rather live on the streets,
Speaker 2: bouncing from home to home, friends homes, friends of friends' homes,
Speaker 2: and to sign up for security, to sign up for
Speaker 2: this arranged marriage. And I mean, oh, I just as
Speaker 2: a mom, I'm just like protect the babies. And you
Speaker 2: were just a baby. But you did that. That's so
Speaker 2: I don't know what to even say about that, just.
Speaker 1: To be completely fair and honest, like I didn't know
Speaker 1: I was signing up for that. I did when you
Speaker 1: were a teenager, and you were like, are defying your parents?
Speaker 1: And you're like, all right, if you don't want me
Speaker 1: to live your live with my friends. In your innocence,
Speaker 1: you really believe that's an option, you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: because you've done sleepovers that went for a weekend and
Speaker 1: no one sent you home, So you've traveled. Maybe I
Speaker 1: at that point had traveled with my friend's families to
Speaker 1: like nearby vacation spots. I was like, yeah, well, you
Speaker 1: know what, you don't want me here? So nice, they
Speaker 1: feed me, they let me do all these things you
Speaker 1: don't let me do, Like I'll just go there. When
Speaker 1: I walked out of my house, I really didn't think
Speaker 1: it would become what it became. And I really thought
Speaker 1: that my dad was consumed by grief and that in
Speaker 1: a matter of a day or two or three he
Speaker 1: will come around and then we will find a new
Speaker 1: happy medium. He was not playing, and I learned that
Speaker 1: the hard way that and that is true of many, many, many,
Speaker 1: many men of color. I think they like stake their
Speaker 1: pride and dignity on everything, especially back home, and and
Speaker 1: my dad was not having it. And also like women
Speaker 1: were throwing themselves on him, left, right and center. So
Speaker 1: he had so much tempt. I know that now in hindsight,
Speaker 1: Like he had young women, like women twenty years younger
Speaker 1: than him, being like, do you need anything? Do you
Speaker 1: need it? It was a lot of like.
Speaker 2: What can we do to help you with the Indian
Speaker 2: version of making a cast role and bringing it.
Speaker 1: Over, making samosas, making you know, like it was wild.
Speaker 1: And that's another thing that I've learned, you know, because
Speaker 1: I saw it firsthand in my life. That men will
Speaker 1: go on. I've seen it enough to know that their
Speaker 1: lives will go on. It's the women. I read a
Speaker 1: statistic somewhere a long time ago, and I don't even
Speaker 1: know where I read it because and if I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: somebody can feel free to correct me. But I read
Speaker 1: a statistic somewhere that said that the face of poverty
Speaker 1: in America is motherhood. That women who are single moms,
Speaker 1: who are moms in general, become a much more prone
Speaker 1: to living in poverty than any other demographic. That's the
Speaker 1: step statistic that scared me. That is another reason why
Speaker 1: I was like, I've got to figure something out, something anything.
Speaker 1: I was like, I will become the world's best dental hygienis.
Speaker 1: If somebody good gives me a job, I will take
Speaker 1: such good care of them if they can like give
Speaker 1: me some financial security. This was during the days when
Speaker 1: nothing entrepreneurial was working. I was like, what else can
Speaker 1: I do? Like, can I become a receptionist somewhere where
Speaker 1: they will like pay me and you know all these things.
Speaker 1: So but knowing that that the outcome for women and
Speaker 1: I have three kids, like you know, they're gonna need stuff.
Speaker 1: My daughter's graduate in college. She still needs stuff. It
Speaker 1: doesn't end, you know.
Speaker 2: And also in New York, the money will dry up.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. When my husband lost his job, he
Speaker 1: had been a cio for ten years, we had savings.
Speaker 1: People will ask me, did you not have savings. We
Speaker 1: had savings. We thought we were set, and it went
Speaker 1: like a day. It felt like with the decision, it
Speaker 1: felt like we found out on Monday that he doesn't
Speaker 1: have a job, and two Mondays from then it was
Speaker 1: all gone. It felt like that, like my god, we
Speaker 1: had it. Oh my god. And then when things are
Speaker 1: not gonna work, nothing works, Like we couldn't sell the
Speaker 1: apartment because the market crashed. Every turn that we tried
Speaker 1: to consider was like, this can't work. That can't work,
Speaker 1: that can't work, this won't work. So you really have
Speaker 1: to prepare. That's another reason why I work as much
Speaker 1: as I do now. I feel like I have to
Speaker 1: catch up for all the years that I couldn't do
Speaker 1: the things that I didn't work for whatever reason. And
Speaker 1: I don't have time to waste, you know. And I
Speaker 1: advise a lot of women on thinking big. Once you're
Speaker 1: playing the game, you got to think big because women
Speaker 1: are trained to think savings. We think, oh, if I
Speaker 1: save money, you know, if I don't spend it. I
Speaker 1: don't think there's any glory in saving. You cannot save
Speaker 1: yourself out of financial mess.
Speaker 2: You have to think, yes, Sarna, you have to. You're
Speaker 2: a medical financial genius. What are you talking about? Yes?
Speaker 1: Continue, At least I'm closer to math than I was
Speaker 1: as a writer.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, drop the gem. People need to hear the gem.
Speaker 1: Tell them. Tell us then what I'm saying. We are told, oh,
Speaker 1: don't buy the coffee, don't get the manicure, Like that
Speaker 1: is not going to save you in the end. If
Speaker 1: you never buy the coffee and you never have the manicure,
Speaker 1: you're not going to be financially secure. It's it's nonsense.
Speaker 1: And some guy came up with it just because he's
Speaker 1: irritated that women are trying to be happy. You know.
Speaker 1: But if you think big from you, that's how you're
Speaker 1: going to build equity in a business. That's how you're
Speaker 1: going to make enough money that will be like a sizable,
Speaker 1: a meaningful amount that you can actually invest and build
Speaker 1: other things for yourself and for your family, even for
Speaker 1: my own kids, like my own daughter I teach her
Speaker 1: every day I go. You have to like, live the
Speaker 1: life you want. Live the life you want to do
Speaker 1: that yoga class every few days. Do the yoga class,
Speaker 1: but figure out how you're going to earn them money.
Speaker 1: Contracting yourself and trying to live within this tiny bubble
Speaker 1: that you think is all you can earn is not
Speaker 1: the answer to your growth. Not for me anyway. I'm
Speaker 1: all about I spend a lot of money now, I
Speaker 1: spend a crazy amount of money, but it's all investment.
Speaker 1: To me, it's all investment because I buy back time.
Speaker 1: For example, I don't drive. I haven't driven a car
Speaker 1: in years because I sit in the back seat of
Speaker 1: a taxi or an uber and I work throughout. I
Speaker 1: don't waste a minute. You will never see me wasting
Speaker 1: time in the back seat of any car because to me,
Speaker 1: that's my office. It's like a mobile office. I like
Speaker 1: to say work, don't work from home, work from uber
Speaker 1: because I go places I would not you know, I
Speaker 1: go places, I meet people. I'm constantly on the road.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're in or around the New York area,
Speaker 1: there's so many interesting people to meet on the daily.
Speaker 1: Don't restrict yourself to the geography of where you are,
Speaker 1: because the whole point of living in this neighborhood is
Speaker 1: in this area as you meet everybody who's here to
Speaker 1: do all the things that they're here to do. This
Speaker 1: is the world capital of ambition, you know.
Speaker 2: You know, I think that's been the hardest thing for me,
Speaker 2: if I'm really honest, is when my husband grew up
Speaker 2: in the city of New York. I'm from the suburbs.
Speaker 2: I came here for the city life. I'm a writer.
Speaker 2: I don't have anything. I was trained as a journalist,
Speaker 2: like writing is what I do. And when we move
Speaker 2: to the suburbs because you really wanted to. This was
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. We had our kids, and now I own
Speaker 2: my own business. I'm like entrepreneur and I'm mom, and
Speaker 2: I don't get to go to the city unless I
Speaker 2: make something happen. So I've been trying to just like
Speaker 2: make plans. I just relate to you so much the
Speaker 2: way that you shamelessly, maybe even you have a little shame,
Speaker 2: but you do it anyway. Pursue opportunities and networking. There's
Speaker 2: a story you tell in the book about and I
Speaker 2: also do career coachings on and You're gonna love this. Like,
Speaker 2: I really don't think I'm a career coach. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm like a get out there and talk to people coach,
Speaker 2: because too many people, especially women, are too afraid to
Speaker 2: actually get out and physically put themselves in a room
Speaker 2: where they could potentially have something happen. You know, meet
Speaker 2: someone hears something in passing, and you tell the story
Speaker 2: of where did you go to this Beverly Hills like
Speaker 2: networking event for diversity in Hollywood? Yeah, and you straight
Speaker 2: up stock this dude, what was he just happened? You
Speaker 2: just had emailed and you did the thing that I
Speaker 2: always talk about, which is look up the list of attendees,
Speaker 2: yes and email them before you go. And you did
Speaker 2: the thing that everyone that I work with a lot
Speaker 2: of them are afraid of, which is, well, what if
Speaker 2: they think it's awkward or too pushy and like, well,
Speaker 2: and they won't.
Speaker 1: Respond do it? Everybody's an adult, right, Yeah? But I
Speaker 1: just want to tell you I have been in your
Speaker 1: shoes of not being able to go anywhere for a
Speaker 1: long time, and now, thankfully in the digital space, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of options. Like, for example, I'll give
Speaker 1: you an example of how it worked out, and I
Speaker 1: really took a shot in the dark. The CEO of Heartbeat,
Speaker 1: Kevin Hart's company, which at the time I was so
Speaker 1: new as a comic, barely doing open Minds, but he
Speaker 1: was in a LinkedIn chat. I was just reading articles
Speaker 1: about the comedy business blah blah. And because I was
Speaker 1: reading about things in that space, LinkedIn feed was like
Speaker 1: sending me all these articles about comedy business, comedy and entertainment,
Speaker 1: comedy blah blah whatever, right, And one of the things
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, the CEO of Heartbeat is like having
Speaker 1: on some sort of LinkedIn zoom or something like he
Speaker 1: was going to talk about the business of comedy and
Speaker 1: you could attend for free just watch what he was saying.
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, oh, I should watch what are
Speaker 1: they talking about? But then in the LinkedIn in the
Speaker 1: zoom chat, there was an option to drop a question.
Speaker 1: So I dropped a question and I saw that his
Speaker 1: team was engaging with it, and I literally took that
Speaker 1: and I ran with it. I kept dropping questions. I
Speaker 1: kept dropping questions because I was like, Oh, somebody is
Speaker 1: on the other side actually reading these, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm a mom, I'm a there's there's no one else
Speaker 1: like me. I just kept it, kept at it, and
Speaker 1: then literally within a week I had a phone call
Speaker 1: with him.
Speaker 2: Is that how you got on the show?
Speaker 1: No? No, he had nothing to do so the week.
Speaker 1: Kevan's business is so big that the comedy is one side,
Speaker 1: the movie and TV is one side. It's like all
Speaker 1: different things. I thought that that's how I got it. Actually,
Speaker 1: the people who were casting the show found me performing
Speaker 1: in the subway and noticed me from a distance and
Speaker 1: took my name down. Didn't say anything to me in
Speaker 1: real life because I think they didn't want to engage
Speaker 1: with me and be like, just in case she doesn't
Speaker 1: get picked. But that's how they found me, and I
Speaker 1: know that now. But besides, I didn't even know this
Speaker 1: competition existed, so I didn't know what to even ask
Speaker 1: for when I was connecting with the CEO. But at
Speaker 1: the time, I remember getting a fifteen minute zoom with
Speaker 1: him because I kept dming his team digitally and saying, hey,
Speaker 1: I would love to talk to him. You know, there's
Speaker 1: no one else. I thought I was throwing anything, and
Speaker 1: they're like, all right, all right, all right, we'll see
Speaker 1: what we can do. And I got a few minutes
Speaker 1: zoom with him, and I remember saying to him, I
Speaker 1: don't know what to even look At the time, I
Speaker 1: was like doing literally like had just one step above
Speaker 1: open mics. And all he said to me was he said, look,
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what your journey needs to be
Speaker 1: because I have no idea what you want to do
Speaker 1: and what you can do. But the world needs more
Speaker 1: voices like yours. So all I can tell you is
Speaker 1: that you have to keep fighting until you figure out
Speaker 1: your door. And even with that one statement from him
Speaker 1: gave me so much encouragement, and knowing that I could
Speaker 1: be face to face with somebody like him through a
Speaker 1: LinkedIn platform, which is nothing like you know, we all
Speaker 1: scroll and waste time on social media constantly. Now I'm
Speaker 1: much more tooorical about it. I take shots all the time.
Speaker 1: Most don't workout. Most famous people or powerful people are
Speaker 1: not going to respond, and that's okay. I don't take
Speaker 1: it personally. And that's another thing women have to learn.
Speaker 1: They'll be like, oh, I did this, and then no
Speaker 1: one wrote back to me and they all hate me,
Speaker 1: and like, you got to stop saying all that. Everybody's
Speaker 1: got their own going on. And that's okay, fail fast.
Speaker 2: It's one of the things that you talk about and
Speaker 2: I love about you and what I try to also emulate,
Speaker 2: even though it's a bit harder to do at least
Speaker 2: where I'm at right now, is like getting like failing
Speaker 2: so quickly that you don't even like dwell on it.
Speaker 2: You're just you're already on to the next attempt, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, like the next email, the next guest,
Speaker 2: I mean booking this, you know, booking guests on this podcast.
Speaker 2: I've been doing it for years and years, and still
Speaker 2: I'm just like, sometimes I feel like I need to
Speaker 2: low key stock to get although I didn't have to
Speaker 2: low key stock you. I just had to find your
Speaker 2: book publisher, Thank the Lord, and that it can be.
Speaker 2: It can feel as It's just funny because you know,
Speaker 2: American women, we have this perception, I think on the
Speaker 2: outside world that we're go getters and we're loud, and
Speaker 2: we burn our bras and we just like get what
Speaker 2: we want all the time. But there are a lot
Speaker 2: of us who have this like internalized patriarchy and misogyny
Speaker 2: and the self doubt that stops us from using our voice.
Speaker 2: And maybe we're in that LinkedIn chat or zoom chat,
Speaker 2: but we're not actually saying anything or thinking we have
Speaker 2: something worth asking.
Speaker 1: Yep, that can hold us back. That's all valid self doubt, right,
Speaker 1: we all have it, but you have to push through it.
Speaker 1: And the thing that I learned is that even like
Speaker 1: very fancy looking successful people, like people who look like
Speaker 1: they have it all figured out, they all have self doubt.
Speaker 1: I know that now because I hang out in green
Speaker 1: rooms with them sometimes, and they all have to push
Speaker 1: through it. Like you know, I've beat myself up for years.
Speaker 1: For years I've said to myself, woe is me? I'm short,
Speaker 1: I like eating carbs. You know, all these other people
Speaker 1: are tall and thin naturally, and they naturally like eating
Speaker 1: whatever the protein mumbo jumbo is. And I have now
Speaker 1: hung out with movie stars who like literally are struggling.
Speaker 1: They're clenching their teeth. You look at them and you're like,
Speaker 1: you're struggling with this, really, like you want that piece
Speaker 1: of pizza and you're resisting it. Because I thought I
Speaker 1: was the only one. I was like everybody else just
Speaker 1: naturally wants the Greek yogurt. It's me and it's not
Speaker 1: like everybody's or their own struggle, Like I've hung out
Speaker 1: with movie stars where they're like, I haven't eaten a
Speaker 1: carb in twenty years, for real, because I just can't.
Speaker 1: If I eat one, I'm gonna want the whole thing
Speaker 1: all over again. And you learn that everybody is struggling
Speaker 1: their own struggles. It's real, and that helps you not
Speaker 1: take everything so seriously, you know, and so personally you
Speaker 1: take a shot and if it doesn't work out, you
Speaker 1: move on, you know, maybe discipline yourself like I there
Speaker 1: was a period of time where I used to be like,
Speaker 1: for forty five minutes of the day, I'm going to
Speaker 1: reach out to people somehow, whether it will be INSTEADM
Speaker 1: or LinkedIn. I'm gonna read other people's things and actively
Speaker 1: engage in their world because like a lot of people
Speaker 1: on social media will have their accounts, they will have
Speaker 1: their tweets in their posts, but they wait for people
Speaker 1: to come to them. But the way to actually build
Speaker 1: is to go out there and engage in other people's
Speaker 1: like in your case, I'll give you an example. I'm
Speaker 1: doing so many podcasts, but you posting install stories about
Speaker 1: what you liked in my world, you know, you are
Speaker 1: showing me that you're actually doing your homework, You're finding
Speaker 1: things relevant that I work so hard to build for
Speaker 1: readers that that puts you on the fast track to like, yes,
Speaker 1: I want to talk to this lady. I want to
Speaker 1: do our podcast immediately. You know what I mean. But
Speaker 1: we all have to do some version of that in
Speaker 1: our life. Is deliver value to other people so that
Speaker 1: they are inspired to engage with us, that they feel like, yes,
Speaker 1: this is a person who's done a little bit of homework,
Speaker 1: cares to know about me, and how can I help them?
Speaker 1: And then we build this cycle of help.
Speaker 2: Well, you also told me crying on the internet would
Speaker 2: go viral, but it didn't. So I just wonder when
Speaker 2: you got to.
Speaker 1: Keep doing it, do more. I'm there are unlimited tears
Speaker 1: in there.
Speaker 2: Not every book is like yours. Can I just say
Speaker 2: for my audience, you may not think, I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: an African American woman, what are our stories have in common?
Speaker 2: But there was an anecdote in your book where for
Speaker 2: your wedding you were almost tricked into getting your whole
Speaker 2: body bleached and like being slathered in some kind of
Speaker 2: chemical cream. Oh, and also in that anecdote you're trying
Speaker 2: to figure out why am I not leaving? Why am
Speaker 2: I enduring this?
Speaker 1: Because it was.
Speaker 2: Hours, right hours? And I just wanted you to know
Speaker 2: how seen I felt. Because black women in America we straight,
Speaker 2: we get we're grown up, often getting the chemical relaxers
Speaker 2: on our head, and I, as a kid, I would
Speaker 2: be burned alive like and I would be bloody and
Speaker 2: have my hair stuck to my scalp afterward, and it
Speaker 2: went on until my twenties, and you just you just
Speaker 2: go through it and you're like, is this normal to
Speaker 2: be in so so much pain and bleeding? And like
Speaker 2: it must be because they're charging me for it. And
Speaker 2: I just I felt really seen by that, and I
Speaker 2: can there is something psychologically that happens when people are
Speaker 2: inflicting pain on you for like a beauty standard that
Speaker 2: just we just freeze.
Speaker 1: We all did it. We still it's crazy. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: When I was reliving that moment and writing that chapter,
Speaker 1: I was like, did it not occur to me that
Speaker 1: I could just be like stop this, I'm out? But
Speaker 1: instead I was like, yeah, bleach every corner.
Speaker 2: I don't know about that, but that was I was like,
Speaker 2: even on my own scalps, I don't know how you
Speaker 2: endure that, Sara, and I want to be respectful of
Speaker 2: your time. I know you're so busy. Thank you a
Speaker 2: million times over for saying yes and for letting me.
Speaker 2: It's really rare. I don't take it for granted that
Speaker 2: I get to look someone in the eyes and say,
Speaker 2: your work really impacted me, and I'll carry it with me.
Speaker 2: And as someone who doesn't like fully yet call themselves
Speaker 2: an author, you wrote every word of this book, and
Speaker 2: I myself, I am writing my own book right now.
Speaker 2: I just submitted the manuscript.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, that's a big journey. That is such
Speaker 1: a hard job.
Speaker 2: People kept telling me to get a ghost writer, and
Speaker 2: I you tried, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was so bad. I mean I wasn't able to
Speaker 1: do it. Maybe somebody else can show a better way.
Speaker 1: But it didn't work.
Speaker 2: It was just it became for me. I thought I
Speaker 2: was going to write a personal finance career book. It
Speaker 2: became stories, it became personal and I'm like, there's just
Speaker 2: no way that's what I want.
Speaker 1: I want to read that book, Like, I don't want
Speaker 1: somebody's ghost written version. I want your words. And you know,
Speaker 1: like now I know how you speak, I know who
Speaker 1: your Cadence. I know how your mind is working. I
Speaker 1: want more of this, So I hope that you just
Speaker 1: write the story like I wrote my book, as if
Speaker 1: I'm talking to a friend, and hope that it's being
Speaker 1: received that way, because I don't think anybody needs like
Speaker 1: a book from me that sounds like some deep thinking
Speaker 1: philosopher wrote it, and it wouldn't be right. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm a TikToker, So I think I really applaud you
Speaker 1: that you've submitted a manuscript that's so hard.
Speaker 2: Two years, baby, much work and pages and page and
Speaker 2: and oh my god.
Speaker 1: When you think you're done, you're never done.
Speaker 2: Oh I know I'm not done either.
Speaker 1: Round of cedits and another polish and another Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So congrats to you, and really congrats to you for
Speaker 1: using the time that you have at home where you're
Speaker 1: restricted by so many things because you have little kids.
Speaker 1: You're an example of how to make the best of
Speaker 1: what you have and to put yourself in a position
Speaker 1: that once the kids get out, you can really take
Speaker 1: off from that landing point. It's just great. I love it.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that encouragement, not that I
Speaker 2: mean I feel like you've given us so much. You
Speaker 2: don't owe me anything, but everything is in the book
Speaker 2: and I just yeah, I just appreciate all that you
Speaker 2: stand for. Everybody, please go buy a copy of Zarna's
Speaker 2: incredible book. You got to get the audible because there's
Speaker 2: bonus essays. Your daughter's essay. Oh damn, we didn't even
Speaker 2: get into your kids. They're incredible. They're incredible. And check
Speaker 2: out your podcast, Zarnagarg's Family Podcast. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2: It's very you know, a unique name. You really like,
Speaker 2: went outside the box with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're really deep thinking involved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I hope this won't be our last chat.
Speaker 2: I hope that we'll get to chat again soon, so
Speaker 2: I won't try to get everything in there. Bazarrena guard
Speaker 2: appreciate you. You embody, brown ambition, and we're just so
Speaker 2: proud to have you here.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored.
Speaker 1: I love being on this podcast. I wish every listener
Speaker 1: and viewer of yours great success. And for those who
Speaker 1: are feeling stuck, I hope they feel unstuck when they
Speaker 1: read IF and when they read my book. A big
Speaker 1: reason I decided to write the book when I did
Speaker 1: prioritize it over everything else is precisely for that reason.
Speaker 1: So I get asked all the time, what can I do?
Speaker 1: I feel so stuck, and I try to give them
Speaker 1: the most honest, authentic solutions that I used in my
Speaker 1: own life, and I really hope that one of them
Speaker 1: works for them and helps them get unstuck. But thank
Speaker 1: you for having me. You're so wonderful and I have
Speaker 1: so much love for everybody in this universe. Thank you.
Speaker 2: And I'll leave you, guys with one of my favorite
Speaker 2: quotes from your book. Okay, well two of them, but
Speaker 2: this one in particular is if you want to be
Speaker 2: an entrepreneurs, start saying to yourself, I'm going to do
Speaker 2: this no matter what every day. I Am going to
Speaker 2: do this no matter what every day. Because there are
Speaker 2: so many challenges, we've got to keep that mantra going.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you all right, b I fam Until
Speaker 2: next time, Bye bye