1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Money Making Conversations. It's the show that she 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: has the secrets of success experience firsthand by marketing and 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: Brandon expert Rashan McDonald. I will know he's giving me 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: advice to many occasions. In in case you didn't notice, 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: I'm not broke. You know, he'll be interviewing celebrity CEOs, 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: entrepreneurs and industry decision makers. It's what he likes to do, 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: it's what he likes to share. Now it's time to 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: hear from my man, Rashan McDonald money Making Conversations. Here 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: we go. Welcome to Money Making Conversations. I am your host, 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: Rashan McDonald. It is important to understand that everybody travels 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: a different path to success. That is because your brand 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: is different, the challenges you face in your life will 13 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: be different. So stop reading other people's success stories and 14 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: really start writing your own now and you can be 15 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: motivated by the success. I'm not denying that because their 16 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: stories can offer direction and hype and hope. But remember this, 17 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: you can reach your goals, but just through your planning 18 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: and your committed effort that will get you there. My 19 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: next guest is Marianna Benzeller. She's an award winning investigative journalists. 20 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: She's the co founder of Muck Media and host of Executives. 21 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: The executive producer of Trafficking with Marianna Vnzella. She wanted 22 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: to do part a war for fusion investigation deaf by 23 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: Fentonal when she tracted pharmaceutical and clandestine sources of the 24 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: daily Deadly Opiard for her report Rape on the Reservation. 25 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: She received the prestigious living Stein Award for Young Journalists 26 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: and a documentary on prescription job abuse and peel trafficking, 27 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: the Oxy Cockton oxy Coaton conton Express. We're honored to 28 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: have on the show because she was honored by the 29 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: Peaboardy Award. She's on the show to talk about the 30 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: show that airs every Wednesday on National Geographic Traffic. It 31 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: with Marianna Benzella. Please welcome to Morney making conversation. She 32 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: scares me, but I respect her. Marianna Benzella, how are 33 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: you doing there? Grade or so? Thank you so much 34 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: for having First of all, let's talk about this show 35 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: that you know, your background tells the story, your your 36 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: your investigative reporter. And I'm gonna just tell you my 37 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: little history about people who are respect like the Christiana 38 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: and Poor of a CNN. I'm a big fan of her. 39 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: In fact, my daughter's name comes from her. And so 40 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: when I look at investigative reporters, I look at that 41 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: type of person who goes behind the scenes the story 42 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: is sometimes bigger than their own safety. Okay, and I 43 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: look at this like you, how did you get into 44 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 1: that and what mindset drives you for a series like that. 45 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: There's appears of National Geographic. Absolutely I can tell you 46 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: how I Paul started and it started pretty early on 47 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: when I was twelve years old. Essentially, I used to 48 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: watch the night news show with my family growing up 49 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: in Portugal, and I've listened to these anchors on Portuguese 50 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: television talk about what was happening all around the world 51 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: with so much knowledge. I had no idea they were 52 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: reading from a teleprompter. But that's was when I decided, Okay, 53 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: this is it. I want to be a journalist because 54 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: I want to travel around the world and gain all 55 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: this knowledge about the world. And so it's sort of 56 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: launched me into my quest, which wasn't always easy as 57 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: coming to the United States, it's and doing journalism here. 58 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: Now this series Uh, you know, you have a company. 59 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: I mentioned it in the in the title MUCK Media. 60 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: What exactly is MUK Media? Well, Monkey is a much 61 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: Media is a media production company. We do everything from documentaries, 62 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: docuseeries and uh we've you know, produced a couple of 63 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: award winning documentaries recently, which I'm really proud of. And 64 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: now we have this new series on National Geographic Channel 65 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: which I'm not only the host but also the executive producer, 66 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: which cares a lot of weight. I'm very meliar with 67 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: the power of executive producer. You know the bottom line, 68 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, the creative line, and your decision maker. But 69 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: more importantly, you're the talent, the lead talent. Now you 70 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: mentioned that you're married, and I'm looking at these titles. 71 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: Let's go through some of the storylines. Illegal firearms that 72 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: sounds dangerous, steroids you can get by with it, lottery's camps, 73 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: cocaine that sounds dangerous, counterfeit currency that sounds dangerous, fentonel 74 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: that can be dangerous, your trade that sounds dangerous. Okay, 75 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: how does he take all this responsibility within himself? And 76 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: that's the world that you live in. Did you operate 77 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: out of because it is danger though correct, it is. 78 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: I've been covering black markets for over fifteen years, almost 79 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: my entire career as a journalist, and the reason why 80 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: mainly is because I realized very early on that we 81 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: know so much about the legal economy, the formal economy. 82 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: You know that we have television stations, magazines, organizations devoted 83 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: to analyzing all the twists and turns and up and downs, 84 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: all the ideas, everything that happens in the formal economy. 85 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: And yet this informal economy, these black and gray markets, 86 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: actually make up for half of the global economy, and 87 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: we know so very little about them. So I saw 88 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: this sort of opportunity to do a whole show wherein 89 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,679 Speaker 1: each episode we explore these black markets and we see 90 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: who what we can learn from them, and who also 91 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: who are the operators? Who are these traffickers and smugglers? 92 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: Do you can see yourself courageous. I'm not comfortable with 93 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: patting myself in the back like this, but I will 94 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: tell you one thing. I think in a battle in 95 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: my head between fear and curiosity, curiosity tends to win always, 96 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: and sometimes that's not such a good thing, but mostly 97 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: it's sort of works in my favor. Well, when you 98 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: say that our readings of extra information about in a 99 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: different commercials of interviews, you say that sometimes you feel 100 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: being a female can be an advantage in the type 101 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: of stories that you're pursuing. Explain that, Yeah, absolutely, I've 102 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: learned that also early on in my career. I think 103 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: the women are seen as less threatening, especially in sort 104 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: of a male dominated world such as black markets around 105 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: the world. Um. I also think that in so many 106 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: of the places that I've been, I've been told that 107 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: I've been the only woman who ever stepped foot in 108 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: those locations such as undisclosed cocaine and uh, you know, 109 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: meth labs rug labs around the world. So I think 110 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: there's a novelty aspect to that as well that's sort 111 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: of disarming for the people that I'm interviewing. And I 112 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: also think and I think perhaps this is the most 113 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: important reason why I think women tend to be more empathetic. 114 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: They turn and tend to sort of uh you know, 115 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: relates to the world around them with more empathy and 116 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: less judgment. And I think that goes a long way 117 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: in the way that I approach my journalism and the 118 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: reason to why I gain access into these worlds because 119 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: I make it very clear from the start that even 120 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: when I'm talking to people that I you know, that 121 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: are part of these cartels or these criminal organizations, that 122 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: I am there to listen to their stories, and of 123 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: course I do not condone what they do, but ultimately 124 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: my job is to listen to their stories. So I'm 125 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: there to listen and not judge. Well, you know, you 126 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: the word cocktail, you know drug dealers, you know a 127 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: lot of people don't walk away for those conversations. How 128 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: do you from a mindset standpoint? Because you use an 129 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: actual national geographic, you're going under that, so that helps 130 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: you maybe calm them down that you're not coming in 131 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: there from a ded age, and but they're still suspicious. 132 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: You're talking about people who really want to survive and 133 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: know they have a short term of success. How do 134 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: you rationalize? Because because you're you're a different person. Understand this, 135 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: I'm coming from a person that I would never do 136 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: what you can do because you're special. You're a unique 137 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: talent that can be doing an interview in a very 138 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: violent and potentially dangerous situation and potential life during this 139 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: situation and remain calm. That's very important because you can't 140 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: exhibit inequalities. There's something's wrong. If they saw your nervous 141 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: or saw your sweating, that could signal that this can 142 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: be something that you're not saying it's gonna happen. It 143 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: may go differently. How do you break down those different 144 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: steps securing the story, then proceeding through the process of 145 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: securing the interview, and then protecting their identity because that's 146 00:07:53,520 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: equally important to your survival. Absolutely, so so much happens 147 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: before we actually hit the road, you know, so much 148 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: making sure that you know that we're we're the safest, 149 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: that we're minimizing the risk at every turn, um, you know, 150 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: because ultimately no story is worth the life. But once 151 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: we do get there, and and then there's also so 152 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,559 Speaker 1: much that happens for it to sort of convince people 153 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: to allow us into their worlds and to give us 154 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: access into these black markets. And I think you mentioned it, 155 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: and it is the biggest fear that almost everybody has 156 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: when operating in these markets is the fact that they 157 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: want to absolutely make sure that we're not law enforcement. 158 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: That's always the biggest fear. So there's all these underground 159 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: what I call these underground first gates, which is these 160 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: moments where sometimes they want to meet the whole team. 161 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just me but with no cameras, no audio, nothing, uh, 162 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 1: just to me. Mean to make sure that I am 163 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: in fact why I say I am, which is a 164 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: journalism I'm not law enforcement. So that takes Usually there's 165 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: drinks involved and there's a lot of conversation, just again 166 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: to make sure we can trust each other. And then 167 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: actually the most important thing to make sure that I 168 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: that myself and my team say safe is that we 169 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: have to be able to trust, to treat people with 170 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: trust and respect. And if we treat people trust and respect, 171 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: usually they treat us with trust and respect. That so 172 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: if I were to show up, and if I was 173 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: nervous and suspicious, and if I showed up with you know, 174 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: a big group of bodyguards and security with with guns 175 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: or whatnot, or with even with a body flat jack, 176 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: any of that, I'm essentially giving them the message that 177 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: I don't trust them and I don't feel comfortable with 178 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: them so with them. So I think one of the 179 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: most important things, and really the key is to show 180 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: them that after all this time that we spent talking 181 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: before we even bring our cameras that I am here 182 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 1: to listen to your stories, and I trust you and 183 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: I respect you, and and that goes such a long way. Okay, 184 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: here's something interesting here. I got the fact that you 185 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: want to get the story. Why do they want to 186 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: tell you their story. Yeah, it's a great question. Think 187 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: it's a combination of factors. I think ego plays along 188 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: role in it. You know, these are people that are 189 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: some of the best in the business. Is what they do, 190 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: you know, the best cocaine chemists, the best person at 191 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: making fake US dollars, the best uh um sentinel rapper, 192 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: whatever it is. And sometimes many times their families don't 193 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: even know what they do. So we give them an 194 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,239 Speaker 1: opportunity by dis guy, disguising their faces, changing their identities, 195 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: even changing their voices at times, to be able to 196 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: talk to us and tell us what they love to 197 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: do and what they're so passionate about or what they're 198 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: so good at doing. Secondly, I think it's impunity, you know, 199 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: and a lot of these parts of the world, they've 200 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: been able to operate for so long with complete impunity. 201 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: They didn't they don't really see you down a side 202 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: and speaking to National Geographic and then I think lastly, 203 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: it's this very human quality that we all want to 204 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: be understood. They know full well that as traffickers, as criminals, 205 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: are as outlaws, they are considered to be the bad 206 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: guys in our society, and a lot of times they 207 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,239 Speaker 1: go into those businesses because of a lack of opportunity, 208 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: and we give them a chance to follows their stories 209 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: and to perhaps be even fit for just a little 210 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: bit to be understood. 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That's O T T 244 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: E R dot Ai. Well, you know, when I look 245 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: at it, when I look at some of the storylines 246 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: on the subject title illegal firearms, I understand that impact 247 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: that lottery stamps, you know, people mislay cocaine. Uh, the 248 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: counterfeit currency that scares me the most, uh because that 249 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: can that can bring down um an economy. You know, 250 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: you don't know this money just being flown out to Fenton. 251 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: All steroids Now, steroids seems to be a drug that 252 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: somebody wants to take it, unlike cocaine. How does that 253 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: How does that impact people in general steroid use? Yeah, 254 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: it's incredible, you know it was of all of those, 255 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: I think it's the one that I knew on one 256 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: of the ones that I knew the least amount about it, 257 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: and what I hadn't realized and we came to discover it. 258 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: It's reporting in this episode was that it's truly all 259 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: around us. And I used to think that people doing 260 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: steroids where either you know, athletes are doing it eagerly 261 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: or it was being done in gyms, but sort of 262 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: in the seeking secret locations or bodybuilding competitions. But what 263 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: I didn't realize is that we spoke to suburban moms 264 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: we're taking steroids, teenagers still in high school who are 265 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: taking steroids. It is a it's become sort of a 266 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: phenomena that is happening all around us. We filmed with 267 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: a steroids dealer who was going from Jim to jim 268 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: selling steroids inside locker rooms in the gym. We filmed 269 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: him also as he went to a parking lot to 270 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: meet a dad whose kids go to the same school 271 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: as his kids, and we saw a steroid deal happening 272 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: right out in the yopen um. You know, they weren't 273 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: even trying to hide it. So it's it was a 274 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: lot more widespread than I initially knew it was. Meassue 275 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: this because you're saying that, So if somebody is dealing 276 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: in steroids, will they get the same uh police attention 277 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: as somebody dealing in crack a cocaine they do? You know, 278 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: it's called implicated. Um, it's sort of a little bit 279 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: of a gray market about how much you can't sell. 280 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: You're not supposed to sell it without prescription. Uh, you're 281 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: not supposed to require it without prescription um. But it's 282 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: a lot more of a gray market than it is 283 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: let's say fen and though you know, which is the 284 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: most drug in America. So there is a little bit 285 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: of a grain market. And in fact, one of the 286 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: main car characters in our film is a guy called 287 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: Tony Huge who not only has sort of a hidden 288 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: underground lab where he's making a lot of these performance 289 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: enhancing drugs, he's also administering it on himself out in 290 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: the open. We didn't have to disguise his identity at all. 291 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: He was very much having the open. We also saw 292 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: him administer some of the drugs he makes to another 293 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: to a kid who is entering a bodybuilding competition. And 294 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: so it's a little bit of a grave market. But 295 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: but you know, there are have been criminal cases and 296 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: there are law enforcement agents. He's all around the country 297 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: looking into these uh you know, steroid illegal stele of 298 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: steroid networks. Now that the one one of the subject 299 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: matter that jumped out because during Netflix, uh came to 300 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: the documenters Tiger King you know, just I guess walked 301 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: us down a lot of like disbelief and uh soap 302 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: opera mockery but amongst all that was a heavy dose 303 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: of reality that tigers UH ab used of being traded 304 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: and being sold and being killed when they felt there 305 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: was no need to keep them alive because they were 306 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: more costly. It would be much cheaper to kill them 307 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: than to keep them alive. Talk about the tiger trade 308 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: uh format that you get Why how did that come about? Yeah, 309 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: So we started filming exactly you're the last November October 310 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: actually of last year, so it was before Tiger King 311 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: came out. And I was happy to see when Tiger 312 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: King came out because although I do think it's focused 313 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: made me on the wild characters they in this you know, 314 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: tiger world here in the United States, um our documentary 315 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: is more about the pipe of the tigers worldwide. I 316 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: do think it's somehow shun light on this very important topic, 317 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: which is the plight of tigers around the world. So 318 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: what we came to realize when with our documentary, and 319 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: one of the biggest reasons why we wanted to do 320 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: this documentary to start with, is that there are so 321 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: actually more tigers in captivity in the United States than 322 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: they are in the wild in the entire world. So 323 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: when we read that we realized immediately, Okay, this is it. 324 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: We have to do. Make that statement. When you make 325 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: that statement, how do they know how that's a number? 326 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: There's crazy to mean somebody is more captivity than is 327 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: in the Wow, that seems like that's a trackable number. 328 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: Are they just assuming that No, it's a sort of 329 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: somewhat trackable. The problem is that there is not a 330 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: lot of enough rules and regulations in the United States 331 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: and enough oversight tigers in the United States. But it 332 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: is estimated that they're around ten thousand, if not more, 333 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: tigers in the US, usually in sort of you know, 334 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: roadside zoos and people's family homes, um, people who own 335 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: them for whatever reason because they want to own a 336 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: wild tiger, wildcats. But in the wild there's only thirty 337 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: five hundreds to four thousand tigers left. And it is 338 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: there's a very high chance that we spoke to several 339 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: experts to told us that within our lifetimes we will 340 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: not be able to see there will not be any 341 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: more tigers left in the wild. And partly we have 342 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: part of a responsibility as to why this is happening, 343 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: we as Americans. Wow. So with that being said, when 344 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: you go through these different processes. I've mentioned several different 345 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: subject matters that you're pursuing for this series, this own 346 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: National GIRLD Draft Geographic Unit airs. Everyone is to called 347 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: traffic It hosted by you an executive deduced by you. 348 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: Um which one of them popped off and went, like 349 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 1: you said, steriles kind of caught you off guard because, 350 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: like me, I'm just thinking somebody out there popping up. 351 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: And then you mentioned and I know when my daughter 352 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: had knee surgery, they gave us steriarts, you know, so 353 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: it is it is that Minister for different use you know, 354 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: and things like that when you're recovering. Okay, but when 355 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: you see the illegal firearms, I get that. But the 356 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: things that jumped out to me was the lottery scams 357 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: and the counterfeit currency. Scared me because that money that's 358 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: flowing around, it's PopEd be valid money. But obviously they 359 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,239 Speaker 1: figured out a system and they can get away with us. 360 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: So so long would eventually make a call, they may 361 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: not get caught. So talk walked me through the lottery 362 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: scam subject matter and then also the counterfeit currency subject matter. Yeah, 363 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: a lot of scam was one of the first episodes 364 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,719 Speaker 1: we filmed. And to me, it was a really important 365 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: one to make and still one of my favorite ones. 366 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: And I think probably because we have all sort of 367 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: received those mone calls where somebody says that you've won 368 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: have you shopped at Walmart recently, Well, you've won a 369 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: big prize and to you want of Mercedes Benz, for example, 370 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: and all you have to do in order to receive 371 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: that Mercedes Benz is you have to pay two thousand 372 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: dollars in taxes or five dollars for the transportation fee, 373 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: and or they'll all you want to say that you 374 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: owe money to view electric company and they're coming and 375 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: switching off your electricity if you don't pay what you oh, 376 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: and a lot of people fall for this um. I 377 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: had a friend here in Los Angeles who recently fell 378 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: for this and paid a lot of money to a 379 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: suppose that the electricity company that was fake. And so 380 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: I really wanted to find out who is it, who 381 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: are the people on the other side of these phone calls. 382 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: So we traveled to Jamaica, which has sort of become 383 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: the front lines ground zero of scamming around the world 384 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: for these what are called lottery scams, and it was 385 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: fascinating to meet the people on the other side of 386 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: the land the line and figure out why they do 387 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: what they do, how much money they're making, how easy 388 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: it is or difficult it is for them to scam, 389 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: and how they get their money. Their hands on these 390 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: lead lists with all the names of Americans and phone numbers. 391 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: So that was a fascinating UH journey and one of 392 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: my favorites for sure. And then on the other side, 393 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: when it comes to counterfeit money, it is actually the 394 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: second oldest profession in the world. It's UH making fake 395 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,959 Speaker 1: US dollar or fake dollars, fake money in general. And 396 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: it turns out that over sixty of the fake dollars 397 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: that are in circulation all around the world are made 398 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: in Peru. So when we read that and we realized 399 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: this is such a good and important story for us 400 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: to do too, head over to Peru to Lima and 401 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: meet with There are only a handful of families mostly 402 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: it's a family network, family business that operate in these 403 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: very having the open sometimes in these printing shops essentially 404 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: printing thank US dollars and then finishing each single one 405 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: by hand to make them look exactly like a real deal. Wow, 406 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: you know, I would go. Let me go back to 407 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: the Louder's game. I I know, I got a call 408 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: and uh and I'm I'm spoke to the guy been 409 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: through that done? But been that done? That about our 410 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: old money to the U. S. Government, And I mean 411 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: shook me up. And the only thing really helped me. 412 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: I called my accountant and said, hey, call this person. 413 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: This person is saying that old money. Otherwise I could 414 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: have been a victim if I didn't have those re sources. 415 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: Because I'm just on this interview. I just gotta let 416 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: you know, you know, to be why would somebody to 417 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: do that? Well, if you get that call, they can 418 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: sound very authentic. And nobody wants to go to jail, 419 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: want no, especially nobody wants to owe the government. And 420 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: sometimes you don't know if you don't owe the government. 421 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: So if somebody tells me you can remit a problem, 422 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: if you don't do it, you can go away. If 423 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: you take care of it right now, You take care 424 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: of it right now. And so what might be five 425 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: hunt all, make five hunt all? They may have done 426 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: a hundred times, so you know that's how they make 427 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: their money. You know, it might not be a They 428 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: might have got just five hundred or thousand. Imagine if 429 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 1: they got a thousand times, and that's that's what they're 430 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: working on. That rotation number there, that that allows you 431 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: to get up there, to be able to build momentum 432 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: to scam people. And so I just want to thank you. 433 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: I want I wanted you one of my favorite people. 434 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: I've been waiting all day to interview because I, you know, 435 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: you're courageous, your hero and then, like I said, a 436 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: lot of people can't do what you do and you 437 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: accept that, you know and accept that your your special person. 438 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: From that standpoint, I'm just telling you from fact. You know, 439 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: I've been in this business a long time and to 440 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: see your story, I am a fan. You know. I 441 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: love the work you've done. We talked to much more, 442 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: which was fantastic. When I saw that, I fell in 443 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 1: love with you even more because I mean, you can 444 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: you can tell a story from compassion, you can tell 445 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: a story from from dangerous situations that even life threatening 446 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: to you, but throughout all your calm and that's what 447 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 1: you're doing is and if you calm your fluent and 448 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: don't stop, and I hope for hopefull you know in 449 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: the future I can bring you on my show and 450 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,719 Speaker 1: talk about other future projects. But every Wednesday on National 451 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: Geographic is your show? Anything else before we wrap up? 452 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: Oh no, I just want to say thank you so 453 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: much for all those kind words, and I love to 454 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: be if if this is how are you going to 455 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 1: talk about me? I'm gonna tell on this show all 456 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: the time. I really appreciate now You're fantastic to short 457 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: fantastic and again I'll do my best to promoted on 458 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: all different levels of my social media and digital platforms. 459 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: But it more importantly, you know, is the year of 460 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: the female and you are leading away my friend. Okay, 461 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: associated Sean, thank you so much. I trually appreciate it. 462 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: We talked soon. If you want to hear more Money 463 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,239 Speaker 1: Making Conversation interviews, please go to Money Making Conversation dot 464 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: com or Roshan McDonald um. The host in this season 465 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: of Giving Coals, has gifts for all your loved ones. 466 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: For those who like to keep it cozy, find fleeces, sweaters, loungeware, 467 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: blankets and throws, or support minority owned or founded brands 468 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: by giving gifts from Human Nation and Shame Moisture and 469 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: in the spirit of Giving Coals, Cares is donating eight 470 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: million dollars to local nonprofits nationwide. 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