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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds.

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Speaker 2: And Donald Trump has announced Prime Minister Keir Starmer will resign.

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Speaker 2: Before the Prime Minister has said anything, we have such

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Speaker 2: a great show for you today. The Lincoln Project owned

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Speaker 2: Rick Wilson joins us to discuss why Trump is hiding

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Speaker 2: in Camp David. Then we'll talk to New Republic's own

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Speaker 2: Mike Tamaski about his new book, Killing Baby Hitler.

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Speaker 3: But first the news SMI. We are a national politics podcast.

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Speaker 3: We don't usually wait into foreign policy, but we have

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Speaker 3: to talk the stupidity that our president has wrought with

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Speaker 3: somebody we were all very scared of, as I recall

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Speaker 3: Prime Minister Georgia Maloney.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we make special allowances for Europe because we like

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Speaker 2: Italian food, and also we like Italy because it's fabulous.

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Speaker 2: But I do remember you, and I'm really worried about

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Speaker 2: Maloney is from the very, very far right, and she

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Speaker 2: was a big friend of Trump's. But actually, believe it

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Speaker 2: or not, since she has gotten into the presidency, the

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Speaker 2: Italian presidency, she has done a few things that have

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Speaker 2: been okay, like she's stayed a staunch ally of Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people were worried about her relationship with Putin,

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Speaker 2: and she was a big ally of Donald Trump. Now,

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Speaker 2: when Donald Trump started the Iranian war, he did not

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Speaker 2: tell anyone, including her, and her forgner minister was actually

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Speaker 2: in Dubai and got stuck there, which is something that

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Speaker 2: allies don't like it when that happens. And they basically

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Speaker 2: got into some kind of fight about something, and Trump

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Speaker 2: said it was because she wanted to take a picture

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Speaker 2: with him, which I don't think is true, but maybe

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Speaker 2: it is.

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Speaker 3: I thought that this was best described as what the

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Speaker 3: great poet Fred Durst once called the He said, she

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Speaker 3: said bullshit.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so he said she wanted to take a picture

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Speaker 2: with him. She is still the president of Italy, I mean.

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Speaker 2: And she said, you're lying, which you and I both

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Speaker 2: know Trump never lies. She went to Instagram and said,

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Speaker 2: President Trump, He's constant, unprovoked attacks are senseless. She again,

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Speaker 2: is true. As for my popularity, you being my friend,

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Speaker 2: surly has not helped it, nor does it depend on

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Speaker 2: my relationship with you. And you remember down Trump not

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Speaker 2: so popular here but really really not popular in Europe.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like that is not helping the president of Italy.

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Speaker 2: The Italian press, which can be very rough, is pretty

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Speaker 2: delighted to side with their prime minister. This is so stupid.

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Speaker 2: This is like the reflecting pool. You don't need to

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Speaker 2: pick a fight with Italy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is feeling like a drama. We should be

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Speaker 3: reading from two people who start on a season of

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Speaker 3: Love Island more than two world leaders.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just so fucking stupid, and it's such a

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Speaker 2: great example of like it's also just like it's Italy.

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Speaker 2: It has no effect on the States. It's just a

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Speaker 2: sort of like, I mean, it's a small European country.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's wonderful, we love it. But this is

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Speaker 2: like a really dumb, unforced error, and he should be

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Speaker 2: focused on like a million different things that are not

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Speaker 2: that agreed.

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Speaker 3: So something I hope the Democrats focus on is the

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Speaker 3: DOJ refusing to release these Epstein emails that probably will

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Speaker 3: expose President Trump for having lots of contact with his

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Speaker 3: former best friend Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 2: So this is a really important story, which is that

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Speaker 2: this is about Trump's DOJ refusing to say that the

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Speaker 2: slush fund is dead. You'll remember the slush fund, which

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Speaker 2: was this settlement. So Trump got mad that there was

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Speaker 2: a IRS contractor who leaked some of his information. You know,

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Speaker 2: he sued his own government for ten billion dollars. Ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't going to get ten million dollars. He decided

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Speaker 2: that he would take a settlement for seventeen seventy six

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Speaker 2: and to give cash to people who storm the capitol.

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Speaker 2: Wildly unpopular. Something that has united with Donald Trump found

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Speaker 2: his eighty twenty issue. No one likes it. Basically, they've

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Speaker 2: backed off of it, but they refused. Todd Lanche, who

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Speaker 2: is trying to become the ag has backed off of it,

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Speaker 2: but they refuse to say they won't do it. And

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Speaker 2: in it in this story is this story that the

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Speaker 2: Justice Department is still sitting on millions of Epstein files,

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Speaker 2: which we all know and some of them could reveal

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Speaker 2: a lot about the president. And so the Department of

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Speaker 2: Justice claims that it's released every document that's required under

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Speaker 2: the Epstein Transparency Act. We all know this is not true,

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Speaker 2: and we know it's not true because they said previously

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Speaker 2: that they had more than six million pages of documents

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Speaker 2: and they've only released about three million. So that means

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Speaker 2: there a streamline that are not released, and we know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, we talked to survivors. They all talk about

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Speaker 2: how there's just a lot of stuff that's missing. You know,

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Speaker 2: there are these interview forms, there are videos. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's just endless stuff. There's financial documents. Financial documents maybe

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Speaker 2: can't be released, but there's certainly a lot of stuff

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Speaker 2: that they're sitting on. There's also most of the emails

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Speaker 2: are from post two thousand and eight. What I think

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Speaker 2: is important is that one of the missing accounts Littlest Jeff.

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Speaker 3: That's little Saint Jeff to you boy, oh sorry, little

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is like one of those funny things

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Speaker 3: that everybody reads it that way and you're like, how

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Speaker 3: did he not see this?

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Speaker 2: And he probably did see it, But so it's either

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Speaker 2: little Saint Jeff.

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Speaker 3: It was apparently little Saint Jeff, as his brother has

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Speaker 3: discussed this before.

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Speaker 2: Apparently Okay, so little Saint Jeff. All right, sure? From

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Speaker 2: the early two thousands, a time when Epstein was most

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Speaker 2: in touch with Donald Trump. Trump has claimed he's innocent

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Speaker 2: of all charges and why would he lie after all?

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Speaker 2: But we're still missing major major pieces of puzzle here,

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Speaker 2: and that is why we need all of those documents released.

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Speaker 4: Yep.

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Speaker 3: So Todd Blanche a man who understands his job description,

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Speaker 3: which is to kiss Trump's ass like no one else.

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Speaker 3: He and his Justice Department are refusing to say the

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Speaker 3: slush fund is dead, even though it looks pretty damn

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Speaker 3: dead to me.

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Speaker 2: Again, this is this idea that Trump is lying, that

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Speaker 2: he's saying he's going to give something up and he's not.

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Speaker 2: And that's again what we talked about before, the Anti

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Speaker 2: Weaponization Fund, the Trump not ever being audited agreement, all

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Speaker 2: this stuff. By the way, all this stuff is never

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Speaker 2: ever ever gonna hold up in court. So Trump World

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Speaker 2: just cooking this up. Is you know. Part of it

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Speaker 2: is he wants the pr of his people, thinking that

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Speaker 2: he'll protect them. I mean, that's you know, Trump is

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Speaker 2: very involved in the outside as much as the insides,

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Speaker 2: and so he wants people. You know, he's trying. He's

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Speaker 2: always trying to appeal to his base. I mean, except

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Speaker 2: when he's just focused on his ballroom. But the point

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Speaker 2: of this, and I mean I think he thinks in

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Speaker 2: has had that the base likes this stuff, which they

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Speaker 2: may be. I mean, I you know, it's hard for

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Speaker 2: me to think they do when they're just trying to

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Speaker 2: afford gasoline. And I think Democrats need to learn from this,

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Speaker 2: which is Trump will say things are dead and they're not.

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Speaker 2: And like trumb bashed to a lot of norms and

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Speaker 2: people saw that they were like laws, but they weren't

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Speaker 2: really laws. And that's like with the East Wing. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's no law, though there may actually be against leveling

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Speaker 2: the East Wing, but there are norms which say you

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Speaker 2: shouldn't destroy half the White House.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so we should talk about a very disturbing commutation

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Speaker 3: from President Trump, David Genteel's sentence. A lot of people

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Speaker 3: found this pretty morally repulsive. The Times that now has

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Speaker 3: a massive investigative peace on it. That's very good.

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Speaker 2: So he was aided by a Catholic priest friendly with

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Speaker 2: the president. This is another like fraudster who got pardoned,

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Speaker 2: and this is what we keep seeing. So basically, this

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Speaker 2: is like a homeo cottage industry of Trump granting clemency

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Speaker 2: or pardons for people who pay him or pay other

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Speaker 2: people who are close to him, or I mean they

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Speaker 2: don't pay him, that's how fair. They pay lobbyists or

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Speaker 2: lawyers or people of connections to Trump and then Trump

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Speaker 2: pardons these people. It's really sleazy, and it's also like

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Speaker 2: they're undermining a lot of white collar crime awards to

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Speaker 2: people who have been defrauded. This is one where you

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Speaker 2: know it's because Trump has this relationship with this retired priest.

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Speaker 2: And when asked about it, he said that the people

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Speaker 2: in his inner circle aren't making money lobbying him for

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Speaker 2: pardons and commutations, but like we obviously know they are.

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Speaker 2: Caroline Levitt, the White House Press secretary Everyone's favorite, says,

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Speaker 2: finds it detestable that what anyone would ever attempt to

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Speaker 2: profit off pardons. It seems very likely that they are

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Speaker 2: profiting off these parts. I think that ultimately we're going

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Speaker 2: to see a lot of paper trails with this. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this just stinks to I have And he was in

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Speaker 2: Autensville and last November he told inmates and he expected

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Speaker 2: to be released imminently because Father Man was pressing his

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Speaker 2: case directly the President. According to people knowledge of jail

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Speaker 2: has conversations. Well guess what he is now? A freeman crazy.

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Speaker 2: Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln Project and

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Speaker 2: the host of the Lincoln Project podcast.

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Speaker 4: Rick Wilson, Hello, Mollie, how are you.

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Speaker 2: I am not at Camp David.

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Speaker 4: You know, neither am I this time. And I have

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Speaker 4: to say, everyone is surprised that Donald Trump is at

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Speaker 4: Camp David, because the exact quote before was I get

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Speaker 4: fucking bored there in thirty minutes and does not like

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Speaker 4: Camp David.

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Speaker 2: Has he even? I mean, it's funny because it's like we're,

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Speaker 2: what almost we're eighteen nineteen months into Trump's second term.

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Speaker 2: He's probably been there once or twice.

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Speaker 4: I think he's been there in this administration never and

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Speaker 4: I think he went once or twice in the previous

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Speaker 4: So this is either the second or third time that

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Speaker 4: I can recall. And what's curious about the whole thing, Molly, is.

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Speaker 2: Unless why one might want to go to Camp David

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Speaker 2: over mark.

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Speaker 4: Just what I was about to say, there is a

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Speaker 4: degree to which I am very curious if you were

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Speaker 4: looking for somewhere very private where you want to say,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, I'm going to speculate, and this is

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Speaker 4: just speculation, folks. If you wanted to have like doctors

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Speaker 4: come and attend to you, not at the White House,

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Speaker 4: or not have to go to Walter Reed, you might

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Speaker 4: go to Camp David. You might want to get away.

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Speaker 2: Because people can't photograph who's coming in and out. Explain

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Speaker 2: it's very, very like you've been there.

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Speaker 4: So one time. It is way up on the in

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Speaker 4: the Kentucktin Mountains of Maryland. It is. You go down

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Speaker 4: a long, long, long set of pretty much back roads,

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Speaker 4: and there will be more checkpoints than the law allows.

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Speaker 4: Nobody sneaks up on Camp David. Nobody creeps through the

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Speaker 4: woods to get to Camp David unless they want to die.

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Speaker 4: And nobody flies a drone over Camp David unless they

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Speaker 4: want the drone shot down. It is. It is a

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Speaker 4: restricted airspace, restricted facility. It's inside this big national forest

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Speaker 4: area and it's very lovely. But it's the exact opposite

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Speaker 4: of Trump. It's Adirondack lodge style, mountain lodge style. You know,

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Speaker 4: no gold leaf anywhere, no gold toilets, no shag carpet

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Speaker 4: in the bathroom. Every president has traditionally loved Camp David,

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Speaker 4: and it's in its modern iteration because no one's around,

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Speaker 4: the pressure is absolutely off. There's no cameras, there's you know,

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Speaker 4: there's only the pool reporters who come with and as

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Speaker 4: far as I've seen the Pool's been very quiet this weekend.

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Speaker 2: You don't think there's a world where he's like in

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Speaker 2: Camp David negotiation. I mean right now, no, you think no.

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Speaker 4: Look, I think he has spent vastly more time in

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Speaker 4: the last two weeks worried about the UFC fight and

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Speaker 4: the reflecting Pool and the Kennedy Center. Then he has

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Speaker 4: dealing with the global crisis he caused by getting into

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Speaker 4: a stupid war with Iran that we didn't have to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is I would love to just talk

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Speaker 2: about the war for a minute, because I think it's

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Speaker 2: relevant in this moment for any number of reasons. But

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Speaker 2: this week we saw Trump signed a peace treaty, very exciting,

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Speaker 2: and then basically Nat Yahoo continued bombing Lebanon Lebanon. And

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Speaker 2: what struck me about this is that we've seen now

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Speaker 2: both Biden had trouble with this, but Trump is really

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Speaker 2: having trouble with it. Oh yeah, Nan Yahoo doesn't really

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Speaker 2: care what you tell him to do.

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Speaker 4: People in American politics they look at the Nan Yahoo

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Speaker 4: in two phases, the pre Trump phase where he worked

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Speaker 4: with Republican presidents and democratic presidents, and the behavior of

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Speaker 4: Israel in that period of time was much more bounded

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Speaker 4: and much more you know, they didn't want to cross

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Speaker 4: the lines with us. We didn't want to cross lines

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Speaker 4: with them, So they weren't going and doing things like

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Speaker 4: this current bombing program in Lebanon. They weren't doing things

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Speaker 4: like bouncing the rubble in Gaza, even though October seventh

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Speaker 4: changed a lot of that. In the Trump era, net Yah,

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Speaker 4: who has always gotten what he wants from Trump every

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Speaker 4: single time, one hundred percent of the time until the

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Speaker 4: last I don't know, three days, four days where Trump

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Speaker 4: is openly well three or four weeks, let me rephrase that,

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Speaker 4: he's out there openly like, know what the fuck is

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Speaker 4: wrong with you? Don't do this, don't do that. And

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Speaker 4: I think that is because Trump is, as you and

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Speaker 4: I both know, is a guy who reads the polling

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Speaker 4: BBNT Yahoo is wildly unpopular in the United States. In

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Speaker 4: the United States, I think there's a widening differential between

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Speaker 4: what people think of bib net Yahoo and his government

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Speaker 4: mm hmm, Israel as a country and Israel as the

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Speaker 4: Jewish homeland. And I think in that first box, the

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Speaker 4: number of Americans that support a free reign for bb

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Speaker 4: to do whatever he wants, no matter what the implications

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Speaker 4: are on the rest of the global stage that's gotten

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Speaker 4: to be a very narrow audience right now.

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Speaker 2: As a very diplomatic way to explain it. We also

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Speaker 2: saw Mary and Adelson, who is a Republican mega megadn't

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Speaker 2: mega donor, the widow of Sheldon and someone for whom

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Speaker 2: Israel is pretty much she's a single issue. You know,

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Speaker 2: she's the crypto of Israel, and she her newspaper came

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Speaker 2: out with a really skeething editorial right.

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Speaker 4: Act Dan Zakam right came out and just said, you failed,

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Speaker 4: You blew it whatever. I read it the other morning,

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Speaker 4: and it's like, if you've lost Mariam Adelson in the US,

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Speaker 4: you've lost the plot when it comes to the American

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Speaker 4: relationship with Israel.

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Speaker 2: And this was around the time the JD Vance got

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Speaker 2: up and did something that I think is pretty I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure there's a precedent for where he started to

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Speaker 2: treat Israel as if it was like a vassal state.

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Speaker 4: Will you talk about that, yeah, JD. And I actually

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Speaker 4: heard from somebody in Israel about.

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Speaker 3: That he has a big d.

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Speaker 4: The level of shock about that was quite remarkable, and

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Speaker 4: that was from somebody who is not a fan of

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Speaker 4: net and Yahoo in Israel who is definitely not in

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Speaker 4: that BB camp. And the disrespect that Vance showed in

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Speaker 4: their eyes was quite striking. And this person said to me,

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Speaker 4: he clearly wants Tucker as an ally more than us.

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Speaker 4: And they scanned that. They read that as Vance being

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Speaker 4: anti Israel. In fairness, I don't think you could read

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Speaker 4: it as any other any of the context of that.

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Speaker 4: And no matter how much you disagree with the then

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Speaker 4: Yahoo government, the way Vance treated it was in that

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Speaker 4: Trumpian non diplomatic diplomacy way of be like like fuck

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Speaker 4: you pay me.

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Speaker 2: Which she treated Ukraine.

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Speaker 4: H why he treated Ukraine like and look, it strikes

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Speaker 4: me over and over again. The only country that they

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Speaker 4: think can never be offended, the only country they walk

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Speaker 4: around on little delicate tiptoes about is Russia. Yeah, and

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Speaker 4: it's fascinating.

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Speaker 2: There's also the question behind the scenes of whether or

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Speaker 2: not jd. Vance was freelancing or whether he was actually

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Speaker 2: transmitting the belief of Trump. What do you think they're.

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Speaker 4: So My understanding right now is that jd. Vance is

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Speaker 4: to some degree from freelancing, but he's trying to coordinate

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Speaker 4: with Kushner and Witkoff. He's trying to also maneuver himself

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Speaker 4: politically for twenty eight obviously, just as Marco Ish who

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Speaker 4: said Marcus might as well be in the witness protection

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Speaker 4: program in.

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Speaker 2: The last seen him, right, Mark.

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Speaker 4: Where's Marco? But I think Vance is definitely playing a

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Speaker 4: game here of striking out on his own a bit,

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Speaker 4: and again he knows that Trump is bored with all this.

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Speaker 4: Trump wants to talk about the reflecting pool and the

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Speaker 4: terrorist vandals pouring chemicals of the reflecting pool and post

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Speaker 4: post weird pictures of people from from.

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Speaker 2: John cast Matiti John eighties or nineties. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: don't think that's a h phone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it looks like it looked like a picture that

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Speaker 4: was taken during like W's era at Camp David. Maybe

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Speaker 4: they went there. I don't know. But all of this

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Speaker 4: is like Donald Trump is not into this war. He's

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Speaker 4: bored with it. He wants it to be done, so

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Speaker 4: he's thrown it on JD. Vance, and JD will inevitably

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Speaker 4: take the radiation from it when it fails, because it

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Speaker 4: is wired to fail. They sent JD over there the

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Speaker 4: little plane, which as much as Jad's like, oh the

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Speaker 4: plane broke, we didn't, are they. There are two special

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Speaker 4: air mission aircraft seven sixty seven's that the Vice president

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Speaker 4: and senior government officials use. Are you telling me both

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Speaker 4: of those were broken at one time? I know the

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Speaker 4: eighty ninth Military airlift wing guys, and that ain't them.

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Speaker 4: They are the best in the world. So on the

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Speaker 4: CAD yes, yeah, on a Gulf Stream four that was

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Speaker 4: built in like nineteen eighty seven.

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Speaker 2: The photos coming out of that peace talk in Switzerland,

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Speaker 2: I see, Yeah, they don't symbol There's videos of him

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Speaker 2: getting snubbed by the Kuwaitis. There's videos of him looking

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Speaker 2: lost as.

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Speaker 4: There's a video of him making a making a joke

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Speaker 4: that was like just on the line of racism. The

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Speaker 4: most important people in my life are in Indian and

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Speaker 4: a Pakistani What the fuck, dude.

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Speaker 2: But you know, the other thing that I think is

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Speaker 2: important here is that no one has ever had a

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Speaker 2: book tour than jd.

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Speaker 3: Vance.

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Speaker 4: Well, I noticed that Amazon and Goodreads now no longer

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Speaker 4: They've frozen the reviews of jd Vance's book. Oh really,

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Speaker 4: They no longer allow people on good Reads to rate

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Speaker 4: jd Vance's book, which is an Amazon company by the way, right,

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Speaker 4: and on Amazon itself. You gotta be a confirmed purchaser.

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Speaker 4: And of the confirmed purchasers, they're like six reviews total.

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Speaker 4: So I'm not super I'm not super seguine that JD's

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Speaker 4: gonna have a big best seller here. I suspect, like

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Speaker 4: all everybody wants to run a presidential campaign, writes a

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Speaker 4: campaign book, JD Vance's. This is JD Vance's campaign book,

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Speaker 4: and it is for a guy who works for a

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Speaker 4: man who does not believe in anything except gold leaf,

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Speaker 4: glitter and self aggrandizement. JD writing about faith and how

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Speaker 4: it's informing every one of his decisions. It doesn't quite

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Speaker 4: ring true to anybody, So I I suspect JD's in

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Speaker 4: for a harder ride than he thinks.

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Speaker 2: What's interesting in my mind is that there's a book

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Speaker 2: about how he's discovered his you know, he's come to

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Speaker 2: Catholicism and converted to Catholicism. And so some of the

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Speaker 2: videos that we've seen, when not talking about the war

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Speaker 2: that he is completely are these videos of him trying

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Speaker 2: to justify ross does that who had who was a Catholic?

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Speaker 2: Nobody who's a Catholic asked him how he justifies going

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Speaker 2: to Catholicism and working for Donald Trump. And that is

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Speaker 2: an innocent question from someone who you know, he obviously

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Speaker 2: is a serious.

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Speaker 4: It's a legitimate it's a legitimate inquiry by by a

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Speaker 4: legitimate you know.

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Speaker 2: You know, you don't have to say, but whatever he is,

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Speaker 2: the point is it's a good faith question. And it's

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Speaker 2: when someone who is a Catholic and who whose Catholicism

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Speaker 2: is very important to them is asking a question like

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Speaker 2: that of someone who has just written a book about

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Speaker 2: it makes not of sense. And Vance has a lot

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Speaker 2: of troubles running that needle.

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Speaker 4: I think also there's something here about Vance himself, and

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Speaker 4: I wonder how he got through o CIA and did

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Speaker 4: the adult Catholic you know, a session without really facing

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Speaker 4: some of these questions. This guy is a shape shifter.

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Speaker 4: He's changed his name four or five or six times.

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Speaker 4: His biography is this mutable and fungible sort of you

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Speaker 4: know upbringing, where sometimes it's the porous white trash living

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Speaker 4: up in the holler, and other times it's a middle

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Speaker 4: class life with some speed bumps in it, and other

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Speaker 4: times he's on the swift road to the meritocracy and

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Speaker 4: the whole thing. There's no there's a sense that jade

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Speaker 4: Vance is always a work in progress, under revision for

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Speaker 4: whatever the new audience is. And so I I think

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Speaker 4: there will be naturally people who will want to ask

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Speaker 4: questions like like Ross did, and I want to ask

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Speaker 4: questions like talk to us about your journey of faith,

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Speaker 4: talked to us about how this really happened, talk to

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Speaker 4: us about do you consider these things? Because when you

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Speaker 4: become a Catholic later in life through our CIA or

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Speaker 4: a CI, whatever they call it now, it is a

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Speaker 4: different process than if you're a cradle Catholic. He's got

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Speaker 4: to he's supposed to really have introspection about this, this

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Speaker 4: this journey. And I rarely see jade Vance demonstrate any introspection.

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Speaker 4: I see him generate excuses about everything all the time.

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Speaker 4: So you know, look, I I don't I don't. I

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Speaker 4: don't think it's illogical that he's going to be asked

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Speaker 4: these questions. I also think there's something very telling here.

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Speaker 4: Let's remember when when when Trump posted the picture of

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Speaker 4: himself as Jesus, jade Vance was saying, oh, what's the

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Speaker 4: what does the pope know? The Pope needs to stay

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Speaker 4: out of out of theology question. No, brother, that's so

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Speaker 4: what the Holy Father's job is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're well, you're on the wrong side of the

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Speaker 2: pope publishing a book about your Catholicism. It's a it's

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Speaker 2: a wild time to be jd. Vance. And honestly, he'd

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Speaker 2: much better off if they're asking him about the book

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Speaker 2: versus asking him about the war that he can.

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Speaker 4: End listen if he spends too much time in in

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Speaker 4: in Geneva with the Iranians, it's going to be my

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Speaker 4: Journey to Islam by JD. Vance.

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Speaker 2: But the thing that I think is is relevant about

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Speaker 2: this war is that Donald Trump obviously was in a

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Speaker 2: panic to start it right. And there's questions of whether

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Speaker 2: or not that was to distract from the Epstein files

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Speaker 2: or what, or whether.

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Speaker 4: Or in Yahoo and right now who knows.

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Speaker 2: But or he was emboldened from what happened was Venezuela.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there are any number of bad reasons why

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Speaker 2: this started, but it did strike me that he seemed

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Speaker 2: desperate to make it end like the gat Like somebody

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Speaker 2: got him and said the gas prices, you're polling, You're.

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Speaker 4: Going to lose the house well, and the Saudis and

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Speaker 4: the Kataris went to Jared and to Witkoff and said,

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Speaker 4: we're cutting you fuckers off if you don't stop this.

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Speaker 2: Right, And so that's why Trump did this MoU that

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Speaker 2: is completely doesn't get him anything.

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Speaker 4: I've owned this molly several times in public when when

435
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 4: the twenty fourteen JCPOA came out, I said, how the

436
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 4: fuck can you trust the Iranians to do anything? This

437
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 4: is insane, You shouldn't do this. And yet it worked,

438
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 4: and I admit that it worked. JCPOA was working. What

439
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 4: Trump has done is unwound every bit of what the

440
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 4: JCPOA did to slow down Ron's nuclear desires. He has

441
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,719
Speaker 4: now not only said you get three hundred billion dollars,

442
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 4: you get all the sanctions on your country lifted, You

443
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 4: get to control the strait of her moves.

444
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 2: He don't get the American forcell for two months.

445
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 4: Right, American forces will leave the region.

446
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

447
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 4: What what is the upside for us right now to

448
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 4: reopen the straits of hormones which were opened before the war.

449
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, but it's not even working. It's a desperate

450
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: play and it's not even working because Trump doesn't have

451
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 2: the control he needs to get to get the PC.

452
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 2: He wants no and.

453
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 4: Look, we ran twenty one thousand sorties, bombing and anti

454
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 4: air sorties into Iran during the course of Operation Epic Failure.

455
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 4: We only ran about one hundred thousand during the First

456
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 4: Gulf War, so we were right up there. This is

457
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 4: a and things are much more accurate now, right, So

458
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 4: you don't need to fly as many sorties as you

459
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 4: used to. We can't do another round of this because

460
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 4: we won't have any weapons left in the arsenal. We're

461
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 4: out of a lot of guided, especially guided weapons. We're

462
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 4: out of a lot of anti radar weapons. We're out

463
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 4: of a lot of jay dams. We're out of a

464
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 4: lot of these things that make American airpower so ferocious

465
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 4: and terrifying. We used them. We're done. We've been shipping

466
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 4: them from the Pacific theater to drop on Iran. Trump

467
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 4: does doesn't have a military option left right, And he

468
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 4: is a paper tiger now. And he has weakened America

469
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 4: by doing this in a fundamental way.

470
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: And we are billions of dollars in the hall and

471
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: eleven American soldiers thirteen thirteen American soldiers.

472
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 4: Thirteen Americans dead. We have we have been trying to

473
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 4: chase down the number of injured and wounded, which they've

474
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 4: been very hesitant to release. This is a categorical disaster.

475
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we have, you know, the flu ripping through

476
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: the United States Army because.

477
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 4: Because Petexas said, hey, I don't worry about those vaccinations, fellas,

478
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 4: they're woke, the woke, the woke vaccinations. And now at

479
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 4: Lackland Air Force Base we have hundreds of cases of

480
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 4: flu and one death so far. Good job, Pete, brilliant

481
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 4: medical autonomy. He called it. Yes, Molly come back, Can.

482
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: You come back?

483
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 4: I love you mean it.

484
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: Mike Tomaski is the editor of the New Republic and

485
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 2: the author of the book Killing Baby Hip Welcome, Welcome,

486
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 2: Mike Tomaski.

487
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 5: I'm Mollie.

488
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 2: So you're here to talk about your novel. You are

489
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: the editor of the New Republic and also my friend.

490
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 2: But you have written a novel called Killing Baby Hitler,

491
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: So I have tell us why?

492
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 4: You know?

493
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 5: It's an age old question. It's one of those questions

494
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 5: that people talk about. I started thinking about one morning

495
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 5: for no particular reason in I think late twenty twenty two,

496
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 5: and I started thinking I can take these ideas and

497
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 5: kind of turn them into a book. I think I

498
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 5: originally thought screenplay, and then I thought, well, let's do

499
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 5: a book and then see if somebody wants to make

500
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 5: it a screenplay. But I think I wrote a pretty

501
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 5: original thing about this age old question that starts out

502
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 5: in the future, because when I sat down to write,

503
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 5: I thought, well, this has to take place at a

504
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 5: time when time travel is conceivably possible. I said it

505
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 5: in the future twenty one forty one, and so first

506
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 5: I paint a picture of that future, which is really

507
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 5: grim and exaggeration of what we're living through, although not

508
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 5: as much of an exaggerations.

509
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, some of it really

510
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: came yeah there, yeah.

511
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 5: And then a couple of these scientists, so five scientists

512
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 5: unlock the key to time travel, and they debate what

513
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 5: to do with it, and then they decide at the

514
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 5: end to at first they're just going to use it

515
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 5: for tourism, you know, like you want to go back

516
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 5: and watch Lincoln's assassination, here you go. But then they

517
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 5: decided to try to use it for good and to

518
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 5: send two of them back to eighteen eighty nine Austria

519
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 5: to do the deed against the Dreaded Infant and various

520
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 5: high jinks ensue from that point.

521
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want you to give stuff away, but

522
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: I want you to talk about this assassination attempt, how

523
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: much it changes the course of history.

524
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I you know, I'm willing to give away

525
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 5: this much. Okay, they botched the job. They don't kill him,

526
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 5: but baby Hitler's life takes a very very different path

527
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 5: so that he does not grow up to become the

528
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 5: Adolf Hitler will knowing, Hey, he becomes somebody else entirely,

529
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 5: and that I think is kind of interesting and funny.

530
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,239
Speaker 5: But I won't go down that road. I don't want

531
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 5: to give that away. But they do change history a

532
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 5: good bit. So in my scenario, there's still a Nazi

533
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 5: party that's formed in Germany right after World War One,

534
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 5: but it never becomes the all powerful, all dreaded, all

535
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 5: evil Nazi Party because they didn't have Adolf Hitler to

536
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 5: lead them, and they didn't have somebody that charismatic and

537
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 5: that good at speaker and all that stuff, so they

538
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 5: remain a minor party. So there's no World War two,

539
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 5: there's no holocausts, so that's all to the good. On

540
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 5: the other hand, some other things happen that are bad.

541
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 5: That I won't reveal, because nothing ever is all good.

542
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 5: We're all bad in this life. And then it has

543
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 5: repercussions for America. It has repercussions in the culture having

544
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 5: to do with like the sixties. The sixties and in

545
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 5: this novel unfold in a very different way because the

546
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 5: Beatles that existed and a certain other things never happen.

547
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 4: So it goes all over the place.

548
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 5: And there's lots of references, and there's lots of historical

549
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 5: in jokes and stuff like that. So for people to

550
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 5: enjoy that sort of thing, I think you'll really they'll

551
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 5: really find it amusing and funny.

552
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: So I would love you to talk about the moment

553
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: we're in right now. What do you think is going

554
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 2: wrong with Democrats at this moment? Or maybe nothing is

555
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: going wrong with Democrats at this moment. I mean, I

556
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 2: think certainly the polling shows that Democrats are the generic

557
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: is as good as it's been. But I just wonder,

558
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 2: like it strikes me there are some really good candidates.

559
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 2: There's still quite a lot out of anger towards the establishment.

560
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: It feels like an interesting moment. And as someone who

561
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: is you know, I think of you as someone who

562
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 2: has similar values to me, I'm curious. We're not so lefty.

563
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: But what do you think is going wrong right now

564
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 2: with Democrats or maybe nothing else?

565
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, things are going wrong. I mean yeah, they're way

566
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 5: ahead of the genetic ballot, generic ballot, snack ballot.

567
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: That's my favorite vallet.

568
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 5: And you know, there appears going to take back the

569
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 5: House and maybe take back the Senate. And that's all fine,

570
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 5: it's much better than the alternative. But all that really

571
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 5: is Molly is a continuation of public anger at the

572
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 5: incumbent party, right, and that's been going on since twenty ten,

573
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 5: not every single election, but generally speaking, for the last

574
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 5: fifteen sixteen years of our existence. Every two years they

575
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 5: say throw the bums out, and they get frustrated with

576
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 5: what the people in power are doing, and they say, well,

577
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 5: let's try this other party. Let's try it. Okay, let's

578
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 5: try the Democrats for the while. Okay, let's try the

579
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 5: Republicans for a little while. And so it's not a

580
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 5: great if the Democrats even take take the Senate. It's

581
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 5: not a great victory. It's just they won because of

582
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 5: Trump's unpopularity and the Republicans on the area. So how

583
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 5: do you get out of that cycle where it's just

584
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 5: the public saying every two years, we're going to change course.

585
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 5: And it seems to me that the way out of

586
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 5: that cycle is for Democrats. They just have to be

587
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 5: you know, they have to stand for things in a

588
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 5: way that they're just not accustomed to standing for. Like,

589
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 5: you know, they lost working class support in twenty twenty four.

590
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 5: How do you win that back? Well, you win that

591
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 5: back by being on the side of working class people,

592
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 5: but being really on their side, and really emphatically on

593
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 5: their side, and not sometimes on their side so that

594
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 5: you know, you're for an increase in a minimum wage.

595
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 5: But what it comes to, you know, data centers and

596
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 5: AI and crypto. They say, well, that's complicated. There's a

597
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 5: lot of sides to this issue. Ryan, No, no, No,

598
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 5: eighty percent of the American public is against these data centers,

599
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 5: and Democrat governors are going around approving them. I'm not

600
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 5: saying in every case you need to be against those things.

601
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 5: I understand they generate economic activity and press places and

602
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 5: stuff like that. But my point is this, Democrats need

603
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 5: to take a much more forceful stand in behalf of

604
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 5: working people, and they need to say, specifically in this

605
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 5: week after a certain someone became our history's first trillionaire.

606
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 5: We're against those guys. We're going to take some of

607
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 5: their money and give it back to you. Okay, So

608
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 5: it's not only like what you're for, it's who you're against.

609
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 5: People are known by the enemies they're willing to make,

610
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,239
Speaker 5: and Democrats need to be willing to make enemies of

611
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 5: those very dangerous people who have way too much economic

612
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 5: and political power, and they need to say we're against you,

613
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 5: against them, and we're going to take some of what

614
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 5: they have, and we're going to give it back to you.

615
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 5: If I can return to my novel for just a second, yeah,

616
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 5: part of what is the future I drew the world

617
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 5: has basically been divided into thirty four regions that are

618
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 5: owned by these rich men.

619
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: That's right.

620
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 5: So there's a Teal one, and there's a Trump one,

621
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 5: and a Trump two, and a Bezos one and a

622
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 5: dere Pasco one, and there's a Soros one where the

623
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 5: liberals go to live in Europe. But you know, the

624
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 5: world is owned by these people, and everybody who's read

625
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 5: it has said to me, I got to tell you

626
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 5: that's that's not as far fetched as you might have

627
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 5: thought it was.

628
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 4: So.

629
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: I recently interviewed this guy, Tad Divine Right, who wrote

630
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: a book that's coming out about how Bernie got screwed

631
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 2: by hell Right. Okay, who knows that's true. But the

632
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: point is that what comes in at the eleventh hour,

633
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 2: and we saw this happen and to the Harris campaign too,

634
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: was that she had a pretty populous message and at

635
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: the last minute sort of more corporate minded people came

636
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: in and said, like, you can't do this. You need

637
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: to go and campaign with Mark Cuban, You need to

638
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 2: do this, you need to do that. Yeah, why do

639
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 2: you think that happened?

640
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 5: Because they I think the Democratic consultants just have a

641
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 5: kind of a mindset that they're terrified of being called

642
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 5: two left by Republicans and by the New York Times

643
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 5: editorial board or whatever. And that goes back to the

644
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 5: nineties when that might have been true in the nineteen nineties,

645
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 5: you know, in the I've looked at you know, Gallup

646
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 5: and Pew ask people every year do you consider yourself liberal? Moderate, concervative.

647
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 5: When Bill Clinton was elected, the number of Americans who

648
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 5: considered themselves liberal was like thirteen percent or fourteen Today,

649
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 5: it's twenty six and so it's basically doubled. It's still

650
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 5: behind conservative and moderate, but not nearly as much as

651
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 5: it was. So the country has changed and is changing fast.

652
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 5: I mean, we see now these progressive the Socialist Canada,

653
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 5: some of whom call themselves socialists, winning not only in

654
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 5: deep blue seats, but you know in purple seats, you know,

655
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 5: like the woman who beat them, Malinoski in the New

656
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 5: Jersey district right and a Mehia. I forget how I seen. So,

657
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 5: you know, things have changed, and I don't think Democratic

658
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 5: consultants have changed. This image of theirs that's so hard

659
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 5: hardwired from the nineteen nineties that they have to not

660
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 5: be too left and they have to be they have

661
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 5: to always chase after the median voter, always chase after

662
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 5: the median voter.

663
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 2: We see Zorin doing some things that I haven't seen

664
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 2: Democrats do. I'm thinking about his little videos that he's

665
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: been doing. You know, that's not ideo logical, right, that's

666
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 2: just advertising. Yeah, why do you think that kind of

667
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: thing like we see that I'm thinking about, Like os

668
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: Off is another one that's not ideological, that's just an

669
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: ability to speak to voters. Os Of is interesting because

670
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 2: he is not like a social media guy. The amount

671
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 2: he communicates is closer to Biden, right not. I mean,

672
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: you know, he doesn't do a ton of national press, right.

673
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: He's pretty deliberate about what he does, but he certainly

674
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 2: does quite well with it, whereas Zoriin is a little

675
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 2: bit different, but he's still not extremely online. He does

676
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 2: these videos. But so, what do you think is the

677
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 2: right answer for candidates just to.

678
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 5: Project an image of being a fighter who isn't afraid

679
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 5: of the other side, right, you know, whether you're a Democratic,

680
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 5: socialist or kind of a moderate, you just have to

681
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 5: come out swinging and throwing punches, right and signaling to people,

682
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 5: I'm not afraid of those mms. So I loved what

683
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 5: Osoff said Tuesday night when Mike Collins won the GOP

684
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 5: Georgia Senate primary to run against Opsoff. And I got

685
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 5: this email you may have gotten it too from his

686
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 5: campaign that night Tuesday night that said John Ossoff's statement

687
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 5: on Mike Collins' victory. And I looked at it and

688
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 5: I clicked on it, and I thought it was going

689
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 5: to say something like I congratulate Mike Collins, and I

690
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 5: welcome him to the race, and I look forward to

691
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 5: a full and frank exchange of views, you know between

692
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 5: now that kind of nonsense. It's said, Mike Collins is

693
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 5: a bigot and an anti semi and an extremist who's

694
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 5: being in who's under federal investigation. He also voted to

695
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 5: double Georgians, you know, the taxes or tariffs or something

696
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 5: like that. Anyway, it was a blistering attack, and that

697
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 5: first sentence I voted, I quoted virtually verbail. He's a bigot,

698
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 5: an extremist and anti semi. That's why he's caught the

699
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 5: fire that he's caught. He's willing to say stuff like that.

700
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 5: It almost you're right, It almost doesn't matter whether he

701
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 5: ticks every kind of Medicare for all box or not.

702
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 5: Just fight, put up your dukes.

703
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because it's like people like it when

704
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 2: off Of does it, they don't necessarily like it the

705
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:23,439
Speaker 2: same way. When do you notice what I'm about to say?

706
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,919
Speaker 2: I think so, Yeah, when so there are some other

707
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: candidates who do and it doesn't work for them.

708
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 4: Yeah? Right?

709
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 5: Do you mean like women particularly or not necessarily certainly?

710
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 2: I mean women is a great example part of me

711
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: feels what's happened with women candidates is that the party

712
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 2: is just so freaked out now that they just can

713
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 2: right imagine a woman candidate.

714
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I see a lot of polls that

715
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 5: show that Harris is still quite popular among Democrats, one

716
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 5: of the most popular. But when you ask, you know,

717
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 5: should she run again, people say no, but very large majorities. Right,

718
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 5: That's partly I think it's mostly that, well, she had

719
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 5: her shot, give somebody else a chance. But I think

720
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 5: it's also partly like, yeah, you know, maybe we just

721
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 5: shouldn't nominate a woman. And you know, I hate to

722
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 5: say that. I want to be alive to see the

723
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 5: first woman president. I want the first woman president to

724
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 5: be a Democrat, not you know, Nikki Haley or you know,

725
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 5: god forbid Christy Nome or something.

726
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone thinks Christinome is ever going to

727
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: be I mean, I would, you know, the husband's boob picks. Yeah,

728
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: may have really just but I know what you mean.

729
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 2: And there's certainly a lot of thinking among Democrats and

730
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: also just political people writ large that the first female

731
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: president will be a Republican.

732
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, there is, And I sort of fear that myself.

733
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 5: But it's not exclusively women candidates. I mean, first of all,

734
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 5: it's just being that kind of fighter has to suit

735
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 5: your persona. You know, like, no, no, Mark Water can't

736
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 5: get out on the campaign trail start talking like that, you.

737
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 2: Know, right, it needs to feel real.

738
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 5: It needs to feel real. Yeah.

739
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's funny because it's like, when I think about

740
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 2: the state of the party right now, which is something

741
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: I spend a lot of time worrying about, it strikes

742
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: me there are so many really good and interesting candidates

743
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 2: that are like the kind of candidates that really I

744
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 2: mean interesting, smart, kind of candidates that feel very right

745
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: for where they are, where they come from. I'm thinking

746
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 2: about Iowa versus you know, Josh Turek and Rob sand even,

747
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: like you know, candidates that are I mean where, what

748
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 2: are the what are the sort of Senate races or

749
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: congressional races that you are particularly excited about.

750
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 5: I'm going to not remember anybody's name, so just tell me.

751
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 5: There's a congressional race in Wisconsin. The woman it's a

752
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 5: pre rural district in Wisconsin, I think the third and

753
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 5: the Democrat is a woman who's from an ex generation

754
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 5: family farm in the district and the Republican is a

755
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 5: real right wing guy, and she seems really promising to

756
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 5: be and she you know, I watched Simon Rosenberg interview her,

757
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 5: and I watched it. I watched a YouTube thing of

758
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 5: her giving a speech, and she just seems to me

759
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 5: like the kind of candidate the Democrats need. You know,

760
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 5: she's homegrown, she's not pretentious, she doesn't reek of you know,

761
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 5: East Coast whatever, right and and her politics seems solid

762
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 5: and you know, she can win conceivably a district like that,

763
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 5: and like that's such an important thing the Democrats have

764
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 5: to get out of just being able to elect people

765
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 5: in you know, one hundred and eighty congressional districts. Obviously

766
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 5: they're beyond that now, but I mean, you know, they

767
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 5: have to get you know, out of the East Coast

768
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 5: in California and Oregon and Washington and other urban and

769
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 5: university town enclaffs and win districts like that rural Wisconsin

770
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 5: district with people like that. And so, you know, I

771
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 5: Turk is a good example too. I think he can

772
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 5: win Iowa, Mary Keltola, can win Alaska. And it's really

773
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 5: important that you know, the Democrats have people like that

774
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 5: to help repair the brand in these vast swaths of

775
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 5: the country where the brand is just garbage.

776
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 2: Is the brand bad because why do you think the

777
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 2: brand is bad? I mean, is it just because Republicans

778
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: have been trashing it? Or is it because people aren't

779
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 2: getting what they want? Or is it because like why

780
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: do you think that it has happened?

781
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 5: Fox News?

782
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 2: Right? I mean, is Fox News that powerful? I mean,

783
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 2: do you think that's what it is?

784
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, I do. Basically. I mean people, you know,

785
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 5: if I'm sure you've had this experience that I've had,

786
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 5: you know, where you're in a hotel room or a

787
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 5: hotel room somewhere in the great middle of America and

788
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 5: you look through the flip through the cable section and

789
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 5: like they don't even offer in this now, it's not

790
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 5: a package, you know. And then you go down to

791
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 5: the lobby and the TV has Fox News on, right,

792
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 5: and you know, so it's just ubiquitous to a lot

793
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 5: of people. It's not Fox this weird special thing. It's

794
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 5: just the news, right, And if what they watch and

795
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 5: what they hear about Democrats on there is just you know,

796
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 5: they just they want to turn your sons into your

797
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 5: daughters and they hate God, and they don't care anything

798
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 5: about about any issue that's affecting your life.

799
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just.

800
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 5: The perception these people have of democrats.

801
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: Mike DAMASKI thank you, thank you.

802
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you so much. So you know, people please, said,

803
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 5: I hope you'll buy my novel and give them a chance.

804
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 5: It's funny, it's entertaining, you'll laugh, you'll cry, all that stuff.

805
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:39,240
Speaker 3: No moment, Rick Wilson, Hey, Molly, is it that time?

806
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 2: What's your moment of fucker? What is it?

807
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 4: My momentifuckery is the unbelievable response to the terrorism around

808
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 4: the National Algae pit on the mall, where they're arresting

809
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 4: people now for picking up pieces of the blue paint

810
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 4: that have peeled off because they poured hydrogen peroxide, which

811
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 4: is a solvent, onto the paint. They've got the National Guard,

812
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 4: dcpd Art Police, everybody else out wandering around. You got

813
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 4: judge box of wine threatening to arrest reporters who are

814
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 4: covering it. They're threatened to arrest people who are taking

815
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 4: selfies and taking photographs of the algae. The whole thing.

816
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 4: If it weren't so absurd, it would be terrifying. But

817
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 4: it really is like, these are silly people. They are

818
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 4: ridiculous people. This algae pit is not going to go away.

819
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 4: They're gonna drain it again, according to reporting today, and

820
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 4: refill it again with the same fucking water from the

821
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 4: Potomac River which has in it algae.

822
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 2: The video that everyone should see is Judge Box of

823
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: Wine talking about the possibility. A Fox News host asked

824
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 2: her if she would arrest John Carl who has been

825
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 2: down there documenting the story, which, by the way, this

826
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 2: is just such a dumb, unforced error on the part

827
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 2: of the zad men.

828
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 4: All they had to do was nothing. Yeah, all they

829
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 4: had to do was nothing.

830
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: All they had to do was nothing, Just like all

831
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 2: they had to do was not saying when it comes

832
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 2: to tearing down the East Wing, Yeah, all.

833
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 4: They had to do was nothing. When it came to irun, Yeah,

834
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 4: they could have waited it out.

835
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 2: And the straits would still be open.

836
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 4: The straits would be open, the algae pond would be open,

837
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,240
Speaker 4: and it wouldn't be filled with algae. If they weren't

838
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 4: so fucking incompetent, they would be truly terrifying.

839
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, my friend, thank you, thank you.

840
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 3: Rick Wilson We'll see you next time.

841
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 2: That's it for.

842
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: This episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday,

843
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make

844
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

845
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

846
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.