1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:01,720 Speaker 1: Thank you for using GTL. 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:06,279 Speaker 2: Stacy. Yes, it's finally happening. 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: Yes it is. 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: Stacey Laarson and I have been speaking for years. I've 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 2: been trying to get him on my podcast. He wrote 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 2: me a letter back in twenty twenty. 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, like four or five years ago. 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 2: It was one of many. 9 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 3: How many letters do you think you've written over the years? 10 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: Oh geez, oh geez, well over one hundred, eas probably 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: a couple of hundred. 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 2: Were you just writing anyone and everyone. 13 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: I've heard about podcasts they get out there. I mean 14 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: they're all over the world. I've seen stuff like that 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: on TV, like TikTok and stuff like that. People got 16 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: podcasts on things and stuff. Hey, I got nothing to 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: lose by trying. I got more to gain if I 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: get in. I'll write it. Anybody try anybody. You just 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: don't know. 20 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: Stacy is even on prison pen. 21 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: Pal sites hopt thing some of that might read is hey, 22 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: almost see what this kid to Bob. Maybe I could 23 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: help them, and stuff like that. 24 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 2: Stacy's doggedness to prove his innocence paid off twenty years 25 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: ago when the Great North Innocence Project took on his case, 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 2: but over the decades, his attorneys have run out of 27 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: avenues to pursue. 28 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 4: We have believed for a very long time that Stacy 29 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 4: is innocent, and so this podcast, I think is sort 30 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 4: of a Hail Mary or a last ditch effort and 31 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 4: hoping that someone out there will listen to this podcast 32 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 4: and provide us with new information. 33 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: My name is Stacy Larson. I've been locked up over 34 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: thirty four years. I'm doing a life sentence for a 35 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: crime that i did not do. 36 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: From love of for good. This is wrongful conviction with 37 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 2: Maggie Freeling today Stacy Larson. Stacy Larson was born June 38 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: twenty sixth, nineteen sixty nine, in Mitchell, South Dakota. 39 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: Southcoat was mostly a farmland. We lived on a farm 40 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: when them or just little kids. They had like tangentss 41 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: of land. We had horses, pickens, geese, stuff like that. 42 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: I grew an old little garden stuff corn, you know, pumpkins, watermelon, tomatoes, carrots, 43 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: rue barb. Mom did all that. 44 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: Did you like that life? 45 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: Yeah? 46 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: Besides tending to their farm, Stacy's mom worked as a 47 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: waitress and bartender, and Stacy's dad was an auto mechanic. 48 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: Mom dad worked a lot. They're always working. 49 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 2: So Stacy hung out with his siblings. 50 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: Three older brothers. I'm the baby of the family. That 51 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: kind of sucks. What was that like, I, Oh, you 52 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: kind of got always picked on. You always got told 53 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: to do this and do that because you know, mom 54 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: and dad tell them. You guys had certain chores to do, 55 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: and mom dandy around the house. So my brothers had 56 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: me do their chores and stuff. It was a handful 57 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: for my mom. I know that for sure. We're kind 58 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: of like kind of wild kids a little bit. You know, 59 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: I'm doing this, doing that, Mommy, don't be doing that. 60 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: Don't be doing that. 61 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: Well, like, what what would you guys do that? What 62 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: would you guys do? That would kiss her off? 63 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: Oh? We like go outside and run around and get dirty, 64 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: come in and stuff like that. Be wrestling around in 65 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: the house, horse playing and stuff. They like, don't be 66 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: doing that in the house. Do it outside. 67 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: Stacy remembers spending a lot of time outdoors. 68 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: We lived by the Mitchell Lake, so we got to 69 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: go to the lake and go swim in and stuff 70 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: like that. Let me go to Rapid City. My mom 71 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: and dad had friends out there. They live out in 72 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: the hills. They had a motor home a boat. So 73 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: we used to go fishing and moving, swimming, all that stuff, camping, 74 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: like for a week out there in Rapid City. 75 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 5: So I'm looking at a map Stacy, and kind of 76 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 5: near where you grew up, there's a place called the 77 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 5: Corn Palace. 78 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: Have you been to the Corn Palace? 79 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: Yeah? I used to work there. 80 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,839 Speaker 2: That's Mental South Dakota, and Stacy loved it. But as 81 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: he got older he started to act out. 82 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: That's kind of like the little shit. I didn't really 83 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 1: like pay attention to my parents that much, you know, 84 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: just kind of did what I wanted to do. 85 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: Stacy dropped out of school in tenth grade. 86 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: I kind of struggled in school. I couldn't like pay 87 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: attention too well. I couldn't sit stale too well. I 88 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: was I had like you know, I was always like 89 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: HDD whatever I was. Always had to be moving, had 90 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: to be doing something. I just had a hard time 91 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: in school. 92 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 3: I know you did some time in juvenile detention. What 93 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 3: were you getting in trouble for? 94 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: I agree, And I did some couple high speed chases. 95 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 3: High speed chases in a car, yeah, with food, the 96 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 3: police or like drag. 97 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: Racing, NOEP police did you do anything like violent? 98 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: No, I got no violence on my record or nothing. 99 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: I ain't even in prison. I have no violence at all. 100 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 2: After he dropped out of school, Stacey started working. 101 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: Graham Goodyear, where my dad worked. He was assistant manager there. 102 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 2: And how did you see your life going? 103 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 4: Like? 104 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: What did you want to do? 105 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: I was hoping it was going to go up. So 106 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: I met this girl. Their name is Monica. 107 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 2: At eighteen, Stacey met Monica through a friend and they 108 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 2: fell hard in the way kids in Mitchell do. 109 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: Oh me and Monica head. You used to go to 110 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: the park a lot on the weekends and stuff. Hang, 111 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: I'll go on the swings and stuff. Slide later and 112 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: they like with a blanket out, maybe eat some snacks 113 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: and stuff. 114 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: Stacey says Monica was a. 115 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: Catch fivey long black hair, good looking. 116 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 2: And what do you think she liked about you? 117 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: She said, I was good look in hot. 118 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 2: Do you think you're hot? 119 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: Yeah? Getting older now, kind of fading away a little bit, but. 120 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 2: Back then you were a looker. 121 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 6: Huh. 122 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: I had long hair. I have my hair comb to 123 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,799 Speaker 1: the side, always to the back, but he laid it down. 124 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: My bangs were like blow my nose. 125 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 2: But Stacy says what Monica especially liked. 126 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: She knows I was a good father. 127 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 2: She knows that Monica had a newborn baby when Stacy 128 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 2: met her, So I took. 129 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: Fold responsible for her daughter, the razor, the bather that 130 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,239 Speaker 1: take care of her feet and all that stuff. 131 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 2: Her name was Heaven, and Stacy loved her like his own. 132 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 2: And he says he adored his life with Monica. So 133 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: you were planning to kind of have a life with her. 134 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: Yep, that was the plan. 135 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: Did you like being a dad? 136 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? I enjoyed it. I think it was the best 137 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: thing in the world. That straightened julyfe out like getting 138 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: in trouble. It's all in the past. You have responsibilities now. 139 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: Did you start to change your life around when you out? 140 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: It's kids full or poun skill. The kids are before anything. 141 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: They've always put your kids first, kids always priority. 142 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: And soon Stacy had a kid of his own. Sunny 143 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: was born in the spring of nineteen ninety, but Stacy 144 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: wouldn't get to raise him. 145 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: It was like two months old when I got arrested. 146 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: On May twelfth, nineteen ninety. Stacy was out with his 147 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: buddy Elmer Pickner and their friend Louis medicine horn. He 148 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: was Monica's uncle. 149 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: We're just kind of looking for some weeds, you know, 150 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: to get high and stuff because I always got high 151 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: and that was one of my things. But I know 152 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: I shouldn't have been doing that. 153 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 2: But they decided to go to Sue Falls, about an 154 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: hour away, where they knew they could get some. On 155 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 2: their way there, at around seven pm, they stopped at 156 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: a convenience store in Mitchell called Food and Fuel. They 157 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 2: got gas and beer, and Stacy knew the clerk, so 158 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: they shot the shit, that's him. 159 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: We'd be back before he closed, And they closed at 160 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: midnight and got in my car and then we had 161 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: to see Falls. 162 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: Once they got to Sue Falls, Stacey says he dropped 163 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 2: Uncle Louis at a bar to see if he can 164 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: find any weed. 165 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: Me and Alma looked a seven eleven, got something eat 166 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: in between. 167 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 2: Eventually they struck out and headed back to Mitchell. They 168 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: stopped at the Food and Fuel again, got another case 169 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: of beer, and filled up the car with gas. 170 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: I dropped Uncle Louis off and we went to my 171 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: mom and dad's house, my mom, my ex sister in law. 172 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: We're at the counter in the kitchen. That was about 173 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: twelve to twelve fifteenth, so my mom dad got a 174 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: clock in the kitchen and dining room. When you walk 175 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: in through the back door, you can see it. They're 176 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: sitting right there. We talked to him for a. 177 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: Little while and that was the night on a full 178 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: and a bummer. A few days later, Stacey and Elmer 179 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: went to the police station. Elmer had lost his wallet, so. 180 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: We're looking for We couldn't find it, so we went 181 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: to the police station to report it missing. That's when 182 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: it all started. Well, they took me in Elma upstairs 183 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: and split us up in different rooms and started asking 184 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: the questions like what we did Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, 185 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: called that time we miss the peace station? Where we were? 186 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: What time he got up so, what time we went 187 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: to bed? Whose house were at? Stuff like that. 188 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: Stacy says he had no idea what was going on. 189 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 2: Eventually the detective left the room. He also left his 190 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: documents on the table, so. 191 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: I started like looking at it, and they said something 192 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: like about us drive by shooting or something. Then I said, 193 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: that's how I knew what it was, because I remember 194 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: people talking about because it was in the paper, and. 195 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: So the Knight Stacy had been in Sue Falls looking 196 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: for weed. There'd been a murder. 197 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 4: Ronald Hilgenberg was driving his car in the right lane. 198 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 4: His wife was in the passenger seat. A vehicle comes 199 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 4: up next to him and shoots him once. 200 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: In the head. 201 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: This is Anna McGinn's staff attorney at the Great North 202 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: Innocence Project. 203 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 4: The victim's wife testified that she didn't get a good 204 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 4: look at the shooter's car when it passed, but she 205 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 4: had a slight feeling that something light was going by, 206 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 4: so you know, maybe a light colored car. His wife 207 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 4: recounted that the crime must have occurred around eleven forty 208 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 4: two or eleven forty three pm because she remembers looking 209 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 4: at the clock at eleven forty and she estimated that 210 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 4: about two to three minutes had elapsed when the shooting occurred. 211 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: And that's to be clear. 212 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 3: A person was driving down the street. This was all 213 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 3: while driving and shot at another car that was also 214 00:10:58,720 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 3: in motion. 215 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 4: That's correct. So they were driving west on I ninety, 216 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 4: about twenty miles west of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. 217 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: That same night, there was also a house burglary and 218 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: a house vandalism. 219 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 4: The bar residence in Hartford, South Dakota was burglarized. A 220 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 4: Winchester twenty gage shotgun and twenty gage shells were taken. 221 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 4: The Curtain Home, a neighboring home of the bar residence, 222 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 4: was vandalized. Someone shot through one of the windows in 223 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 4: the home. 224 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: Ballistics would end up determining that the same gun was 225 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: used at both homes. Police also removed pellets from the 226 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 2: victim's body in the drive by killing, and police said 227 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 2: they were similar to the ones found in the other 228 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 2: two crime scenes. 229 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 4: And then this other woman who's just driving by her 230 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 4: car gets shot at. No one's injured, but someone shoots 231 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 4: through a window in her car. 232 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 2: The woman driving that car was Tanya Issuel, and she 233 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 2: winds up telling police that she got a good look 234 00:11:59,440 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: at the car. 235 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 4: She described the shooter's car as an older model four 236 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 4: door car, light green with a white vinyl. 237 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 2: Top, although passengers in the car with Tanya described the 238 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 2: car differently. 239 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,119 Speaker 4: Police were asking for information about these crimes and provided 240 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 4: a description of the car, and they then received an 241 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 4: anonymous tip from someone concerned that Stacy's car matched the 242 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:31,599 Speaker 4: one identified by the passerbys. So that's how He's ultimately 243 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 4: put on the radar. 244 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 2: Of the police, and that's when Stacy walked into the 245 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 2: police station looking for Elmer's wallet. Stacy was held for questioning, 246 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 2: but was ultimately released, though it wasn't long before the 247 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 2: police brought him back. And this time they meant business. 248 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: They're saying, we're lying. We ain't tell them the truth. 249 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: You guys did it? You just bought brand new cars. 250 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: On your car the car trucks up the scene were fresh, 251 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: like brand new tires. Oh you got a beb hole 252 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: in your tail, like your carpety description. We got eyewinness 253 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: that saw you do it and all this stuff. I 254 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: was like, what in no way? 255 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 2: Tanya also identified Stacy in a lineup. Police were convinced 256 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 2: they had their men. 257 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 4: So Stacy was held in the police station for ten hours, 258 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 4: during which time he asked for an attorney several times, 259 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 4: and he never got one. He was never mirandized or 260 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,359 Speaker 4: given his Miranda warnings. 261 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: They questioned us, question us and questions and the man 262 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 1: light detector. We went to the PlayStation about three thirty 263 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: in that afternoon, I think it was like ten ten 264 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: thirty when they gave us to light detector and they said, 265 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: we're a deception or whatever. Imagine after so many ills 266 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: being questioned, I was frustrated, I was scared. I was confused. 267 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 4: They brought in his friend and infant son in the 268 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 4: middle of the night and told him that he should 269 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 4: kiss his baby goodbye since he'd never see him again. 270 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 4: They told him that his dad was in the lobby 271 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 4: and looked very sick. He was sweaty and pale, like 272 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 4: he might have a heart attack, which was alive. So 273 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 4: they're basically saying, look, your dad's here, he's going to 274 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 4: have another heart attack, and you can go if you 275 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 4: just make a confession. 276 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: He had his hand on the accounter, real hard stuff, 277 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: and I'll just admit to what you did to talk 278 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: about like the death penalty and stuff. 279 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: So what did you think. 280 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 3: Did you think, like, Okay, if I just say what 281 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 3: they're saying, I can go home. 282 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: Yep, that's pretty much it tell us what happened. What 283 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: did you guys did and be dealt with? That was 284 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: minors fanning. 285 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 3: Did you have an understanding that when you confess to 286 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 3: a crime that they would arrest you then or were 287 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 3: they telling you like you'll go. 288 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: Home they would and say exactly, I was going to 289 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: get the rested or go home, but tell us what happened. 290 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: The interview was done. You know, no more question for through. 291 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 4: I was my understanding, And so after ten hours of torment, 292 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 4: Stacy wrote out a confession that he was involved in 293 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 4: this crime. 294 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 2: Stacy says the detectives told him what to say, and 295 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: when he was done, he never went home. Stacy was 296 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 2: indicted for the murder of seventy six year old Ronald Hildenberg. 297 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: What were you thinking when you went to trial. 298 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: I'll go at home. I didn't do it. 299 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 5: They don't have nothing, So you believed you believed the 300 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 5: system would get it right. 301 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 2: They would figure out, oh he didn't do this. Elmer Pickner, 302 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 2: Louis Medicine, Horn, and Stacy were all charged and Stacy 303 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 2: was the first to go to trial. 304 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: He offered me a deal to test flag against him. 305 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: I said no, I ain't taking a no deal. 306 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 2: Stacey insisted on his innocence, so he went to trial 307 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 2: November third, nineteen ninety. He was twenty years old. McCook 308 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: County State's Attorney Roger Gurlac, tried the case. 309 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 4: So the state's theory of the case was that these 310 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 4: three men were so frustrated at their failure to secure 311 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 4: marijuana that they went on a crime spree that ultimately 312 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 4: culminated in the Hilgenberg murder. The state's ballistic expert opined 313 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 4: that the pellets and the wads retrieved from the scene 314 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 4: were likely fired from the same gun that was fired 315 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 4: at the bar residence, the Curtain residence, and also matched 316 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 4: evidence found at the Hilgenberg murder and the pellets taken 317 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 4: from the victim's. 318 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: Body, But the state didn't have much else to work with. 319 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: None of the unidentified fingerprints, footprints, or tire prints matched 320 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: Stacy or his friends, and his confession never made it 321 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 2: to trial. 322 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 4: His confession was actually thrown out and found to be 323 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 4: inadmissible because of all of these horribly coercive tactics by 324 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 4: the police. The judge would not allow it in. But apparently, 325 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 4: while he was alone in the police officer's car, Stacy, 326 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 4: according to this officer, again alleged to have made some 327 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 4: sort of incriminating admission to him when the two were 328 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 4: alone in the vehicle, and that ultimately was admitted at trial. 329 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 2: The officer was allowed to testify as to what he 330 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 2: alleged he heard Stacy say in the car. 331 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 4: These admissions, in addition to the word of two jailhouse snitches, 332 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 4: made up some of the only evidence against Stacy at 333 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 4: the time of the crime. 334 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 2: In fact, the defense was turning up evidence to the contrary. 335 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 4: So this case is in some ways complicated the timing 336 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,719 Speaker 4: of the events, but in other ways it's very simple 337 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 4: because Stacy had an ironclad alibi. 338 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 2: Stacy, uncle Louis, and Elmer had gone to Sue Falls 339 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: to get weed at the Frontier Barn. 340 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 4: Acquaintance testified to seeing the group leave around eleven ten pm. 341 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 4: Then all three men left Sue Falls and returned westbound 342 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 4: to Mitchell. At eleven forty seven pm, Stacy and his 343 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 4: two friends purchased gas and beer at a Food and 344 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 4: Fuel in Mitchell, South Dakota, and this was corroborated by 345 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 4: the stores tape and employee testimony. 346 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 2: Sales tape not videotape, a receipt from the Food and 347 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 2: Fuel marked twelve o two am. 348 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 4: The problem with this is that the distance between the 349 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 4: site of the Hilgenberg murder and the Food and Fuel 350 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 4: is forty three point two miles, and the Hilgenberg murder 351 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 4: occurred around eleven forty two pm, Stacy would have had 352 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 4: to cover that forty three miles in about twenty minutes, 353 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 4: and that would be an average of one hundred and 354 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 4: thirty five miles per hour. 355 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 2: But Stacy's defense found out that the clock on the 356 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 2: timestamped for seat was ten minutes fast. 357 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 4: And given the reality that the clock was ten minutes 358 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 4: fast he purchased the store items, actually at eleven fifty two, 359 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 4: he probably would have had to drive about two hundred 360 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 4: and sixty to even three hundred and seventy miles per hour, 361 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 4: which was obviously impossible. 362 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 3: How did the state get around this at trial? 363 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 4: So the state was allowed to introduce prior bad acts 364 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 4: that Stacy had a history of speeding. 365 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 2: Remember Stacy liked racing cops. 366 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 4: So they said, you can sort of extrapolate from the 367 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 4: times and say, okay, well, let's say the shooting actually 368 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 4: ocurred at eleven forty pm. You know, no one knows 369 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 4: exactly the time that the shooting occurred, and so you know, 370 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 4: giving it a little bit of leeway there, and let's 371 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 4: say he actually got there at twelve oh two am. 372 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 4: The clock wasn't actually fast, then one hundred and thirty 373 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 4: miles per hour. Well, Stacey has all this history of speeding, 374 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 4: so you know, maybe it makes sense that he did 375 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 4: speed that fast, which again, you know, an average of 376 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 4: one hundred and thirty five miles per hour. I guess 377 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 4: that's technically possible, but strikes me as exceedingly unlikely, unlike 378 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 4: what we believe the real timeline was, which is going 379 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 4: about three hundred miles per hour. I mean, that's physically impossible. 380 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 4: You know, this is an ironclad alibi. The problem is 381 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 4: all of this was known at the time of trial, 382 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 4: and he was still convicted. 383 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 2: After about eight hours deliberating, the jury found Stacy Larsen 384 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 2: guilty of second degree murder just after midnight on November 385 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 2: twenty first, nineteen ninety He was sentenced to life in 386 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 2: prison without the possibility of parole. Roger Gerlac told the 387 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 2: press he would use the same approach and witnesses for 388 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: the other two trials, but he ended up dropping the 389 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: charges against Uncle Louis, and Elmer was acquitted at trial 390 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 2: a few months later in nineteen ninety one. 391 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 4: Stacy's the only one that's sitting in prison for this crime. 392 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 4: The alibi was enough for a one jury and not 393 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 4: enough for his unfortunately. 394 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 2: Stacy says after he was convicted, he was devastated. 395 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: Devastated. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know 396 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: what to do because. 397 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 2: I was just a young kid, twenty years old, his 398 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 2: whole life ahead of him, and now it was gone. 399 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 3: So, Monica, when you went to prison, how did that 400 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 3: relationship end? Did you guys stay together? 401 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: We did for a while. I just kind of told it, 402 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: you gotta go live your life. I gotta do what 403 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: I gotta do to get out of here. I didn't 404 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: want to want to tire dollar or nothing. 405 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: It was a very lonely start to prison for Stacy. 406 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 2: No Monica and Stacy says his family wasn't fully behind him. 407 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: They pretty much convinced my dad I did it. 408 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 2: Wow, So did your dad think you did it? 409 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? He down in his heart, I don't think he did, 410 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: but because he knows the clice and stuff, so there's 411 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: like a I don't want to say, a friendship. But 412 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: he didn't think they would lie to him. But if 413 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: they got evidence that match, mean he's probably gonna believe it. 414 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 2: Stacey figured if he was going to get through this, 415 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 2: he had to be there for himself. 416 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: I had a figure outing. Now I'm not gonna let 417 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: him get away with this, So. 418 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 2: He started working on proving his innocence. 419 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: I started talking to people and kind of going to 420 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: law library reading those stuff, and watch started and I 421 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: started watching programs about like physical evidence and trials and stuff. 422 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: Try to learn the process. 423 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 2: He wrote letter after a letter. 424 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: I wrote, like other news stations like Washington. 425 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,959 Speaker 2: Times, to all kinds of people. 426 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: President Baker Obama wrote, Barry Sanders at Golvin Hellolan, Midwest 427 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: Innocent Projects, winch Componis. I went and knew the White House. 428 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: All kinds of people, whoever I can write, try to 429 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: help me. 430 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 2: Finally, in two thousand and four, the Great North Innocence 431 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 2: Project accepted Stacy's case. 432 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 4: This alibi, I think, screams of Stacy's innocence. Now. It 433 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 4: was so convincing that Stacy's Code offendants were either acquitted 434 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 4: at their own trials and then the state subsequently dismissed 435 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 4: all charges against his other Code offended. 436 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 2: But Anna says the problem with the alibi for post 437 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: conviction work is that it was already presented at trial. 438 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 2: In order to get Stacy back in court, he needs 439 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 2: new evidence that has not been litigated. So shortly after 440 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 2: they got the case. In two thousand and five, with 441 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: advances in technology, the Innocence Project requested DNA testing on 442 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 2: the evidence, but they found out it was gone. 443 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 4: All of the evidence that was in the possession of 444 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 4: the state's attorney's office, some of it, at certain points 445 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 4: we thought was destroyed, but recently we've determined that that 446 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 4: it was not actually destroyed, and so we are going 447 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 4: through testing relevant pieces of evidence as we come by them, 448 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 4: but so far that has not yielded any positive leads. 449 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 4: You know, we've been trying to find fingerprints, we've been 450 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 4: trying to get touch DNA, all sorts of evidence from 451 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 4: all of these crimes, and this evidence has not given 452 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 4: us any indication that Stacy is guilty. But it also 453 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 4: hasn't provided us with any new information that we don't 454 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 4: already know, and so where to go next is not 455 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 4: at all obvious. 456 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 6: Now. 457 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 4: I think the fact that we've been working on his 458 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 4: case for twenty years should speak to the fact that 459 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 4: we have not found anything that suggests that Stacy committed 460 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 4: this crime. 461 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 2: Anna says, if they do find new evidence of innocence, 462 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,959 Speaker 2: Stacy can submit emotion for a new trial. 463 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 4: It's horrible because we know that Stacy is innocent. I 464 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 4: believe it's physically impossible for him to have committed this crime, 465 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 4: and yet lawyers keep hitting these dead ends. It's extremely demoralizing. 466 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 2: Although the innocence project hit a wall, Stacy's life is 467 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 2: on up in other unexpected ways. 468 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 3: I was going to ask about your cousin, Karen, so 469 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 3: tell me about her. 470 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 2: Were you guys close growing up? 471 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: Well, this is a crazy thing. We just met like 472 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: eight years ago. Nobody knew she existed. 473 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 7: Stacy's mother actually knew about me, and she was eleven 474 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 7: months younger than my dad, so they were very close. 475 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 2: This is Karen Wheeldrier. 476 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 7: I am Stacy's cousin, and. 477 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 2: What Stacy means by no one knew about her is 478 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 2: that Karen didn't know who her biological dad was. 479 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 7: I found out at the age of fifty six that 480 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 7: the dad that raised me was not my biological father. 481 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 7: I always felt something was different growing up, and I 482 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 7: finally asked my aunt who confirmed and she told me 483 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 7: my biological dad's name. 484 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: So Karen set out to find him. 485 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 7: That was in twenty sixteen, August of twenty sixteen, So 486 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 7: since then I've been on quite a journey learning as 487 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 7: much about my biological dad and his family, and it's 488 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 7: been very good, a very good turnout. 489 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 3: Did you expect your life was now going to be 490 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 3: advocating for someone in prison. 491 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 7: No, I certainly did not. That was probably the farthest 492 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 7: thing from my mind. 493 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 2: Karen learned that her dad had a sister, and that 494 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 2: sister had a son, her biological cousin. 495 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 7: I learned about Stacy in twenty seventeen, and I actually 496 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 7: got to meet him. In April of twenty seventeen. 497 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 2: Karen went to visit Stacy in prison along with her uncle, 498 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 2: Stacy's father. 499 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 3: What were you told anything before you met Stacy? I mean, 500 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 3: you're going to visit this man in prison that you 501 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 3: don't know. 502 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 2: What were you told about him? 503 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 7: I was told the circumstances of the case, as far 504 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 7: as what his charges were and why he was in prison. 505 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 2: Karen was taken by Stacy. 506 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 7: I love his laugh. He has a soft laugh that 507 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 7: is very warming. He's very kind, very kind man. I 508 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 7: cannot speak of the young man he was at the 509 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 7: time that all of this happened for him, But the 510 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 7: Stacy that I know this is not him at all. 511 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 2: Karen wondered, could this sweet man in front of her 512 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 2: have committed this crime? 513 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 7: It was just very hard to understand how this came about. 514 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 7: I have served on jury duty a couple of times, 515 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 7: not at the federal level, but at our county level. 516 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 7: I have done that, and if there's one thing that 517 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 7: I learned while doing that, it is that our judicial 518 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 7: system is broken. 519 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 2: So she got the court turn scripts from Stacy's trial 520 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: and started reading. 521 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 7: And by reading those in the beginning, it's like, well, yeah, 522 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 7: I mean he had to have done it if you 523 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 7: read this, and that's how the case was presented. 524 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 2: But then Stacy started calling. 525 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 7: Her, and he started sending me other information, and so 526 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 7: I started digging deeper and deeper. And I've made a 527 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 7: lot of phone calls, a lot of phone calls, a 528 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 7: lot of emails. 529 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 2: So what made you want to keep looking? I mean 530 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 2: you could have just been like, I don't know this person. 531 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 2: I don't need to get involved with someone in prison. 532 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 7: You know, that's a tough one. Just something inside that 533 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 7: was telling me he definitely is an innocent person. 534 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 2: And now Karen says she knows it. 535 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 7: This makes absolutely no sense. I mean it made absolutely 536 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 7: no sense. And the more I read into all these 537 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 7: reports and looked at the pictures and read the autopsy. 538 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 7: The more angry I became, and I consider it a 539 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 7: righteous anger because it was very evident that he was 540 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 7: set up. 541 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 3: That's so interesting. So this person who you're related to 542 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 3: but doesn't really know you at all now is one 543 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 3: of your advocates. 544 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: Yep, by my biggest advocate I have. 545 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 2: What do you think about that? 546 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: You got to have that support you need it. It's 547 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: hard to do it on your own. 548 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 2: Karen says, once the Innocence Project got involved in Stacy's case, 549 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 2: the rest of his family came around. 550 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 7: He has the support of his family. From those that 551 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 7: I have met, he does have that. It's just nobody 552 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 7: knows how to go about this, and that's been the 553 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 7: hard part. He you know, That's that's what people don't know. 554 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 7: When I met his mother, my aunt, for the first time, 555 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 7: she was so hopeful, and she said, Stacy says, the 556 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 7: Innocence Project is working so hard to get his case reversed. 557 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 7: She said, I just I can't give up because Stacy 558 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 7: is so hopeful. I have to keep my hope going. 559 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 2: But it's been over three decades and Stacy is still 560 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 2: in prison, missing out on the life he loved. Do 561 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: you feel like it was hard to be a dad 562 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: in prison. 563 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you can't be either or them physically all 564 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: like nothingly once they fall and got hurt or something 565 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: happened at school, or you know, you can't watch him 566 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: forward or whatever swimming ride their first fight. It's hard 567 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: on a kid because I have visitations with them when 568 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: they're little, knowledge stuff, so they kind of grew up 569 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: and with me through the prisons system. 570 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 2: Today Stacey is a grandfather. 571 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: Make them up during like activities like a fun day 572 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: when you get to interact with your kids, your grandkids, 573 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: do things with them with scavengers, hunting, do some color 574 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: in stuff like that. 575 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 3: Are you still in touch with Monica or did that 576 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 3: end friendly? 577 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: We have contact here and there might be six months 578 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: down the roll might hear from her or somebody. There's 579 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: always been contacts. They all know what's going on. Every 580 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: legal letter I get from people, I sent them copies, 581 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: so they know what's going on, so they're not out 582 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: of the loop. 583 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 2: Do they all support your innocence? 584 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: YEP? I can't. What do I get out? 585 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 2: What do you guys talk about? What's that going to 586 00:32:59,280 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 2: look like. 587 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: I tell them, first step, you got to get out first, 588 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: and we're worried about that. You don't want to get 589 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: too far ahead. My priority is getting out first. I 590 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: don't even worry about what I'm gonna do out there 591 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: or anything. You don't want to get like too emotional. 592 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: You don't want to get your high hopes up and 593 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Focus on one thing. I take one 594 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: day at a time. I'm not one of those guys 595 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: I could do thousand things. I just take one day 596 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: at a time. 597 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 6: My case is far already, and. 598 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: It says the next steps aren't immediately obvious. 599 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 4: We are just hoping that with this podcast, perhaps someone 600 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 4: listening will recall this crime and have information that can 601 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 4: help Stacy. Basically to provide us with this new evidence, 602 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 4: right because you know, we've done the DNA testing, We've 603 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 4: done the fingerprint analysis, and we are not going to 604 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 4: give up on Stacy because we believe in his innocence. 605 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 4: You know, this is an ironclad alibi. 606 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 2: Anna says there are a few avenues that are looking 607 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 2: for information on She says that Stacy's attorney at trial 608 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 2: should have been allowed to introduce a third party perpetrator defense. 609 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 4: Saying it wasn't me, it was someone else. Stacey wanted 610 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 4: to offer evidence that at least one and possibly two 611 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 4: other shootings occurred that same evening. So so there was 612 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 4: another shooting at a vehicle traveling eastbound on I ninety 613 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 4: towards Sue Falls at around ten fifteen PM. Marks were 614 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 4: found on this vehicle that could have been caused by 615 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 4: a shotgun. And then again at twelve thirty am, a 616 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 4: witness allegedly heard a shotgun blast from a van outside 617 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 4: of Hartford, South Dakota. That's where those two houses were 618 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 4: burglarized and vandalized. So no physical evidence was ever really 619 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 4: found at the scene of either of those crimes. But 620 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 4: it's significant these drive by shootings were not happening a 621 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 4: lot in suit Falls, South Dakota at the time, and 622 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 4: so the fact that there were potentially two other shootings 623 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 4: and one likely caused by a shotgun shot, that's significant 624 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 4: evidence that I believe should have been introduced at his trial, 625 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 4: and two justices on the South Dakota Supreme Court agree 626 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 4: that that should have been introduced. 627 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 3: And so have you guys tried to track down who 628 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 3: that might have been. 629 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 4: We have, and we have not been successful yet in 630 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 4: figuring out the identity of that person with certainty such 631 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 4: that were able to present it in court. 632 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 2: But Anna is not giving up. 633 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 4: His community, his family. They've all missed him, We've all 634 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 4: missed out on everything he could have contributed to society, 635 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 4: as we all know, wrongful convictions of fact. Not just 636 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 4: the individual that's been incarcerated, but their family as well. 637 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 4: You know, his son was an infant when he was arrested, 638 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,760 Speaker 4: and so he grew up without a father. It's really 639 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 4: hard to for me, because it's hard for me as 640 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 4: his lawyer, because I want to give him the best 641 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 4: representation that he deserves. And his case has just been 642 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 4: sitting there for a while because there's nothing new that 643 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 4: we can think of, and so if anyone knows anything, 644 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 4: they should please contact us at the Great North Innocence Project. 645 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 2: Stacy's cousin Karen, agrees he. 646 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 7: Needs justice and I, as a resident on this state, 647 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 7: deserve to have the correct person who committed the murder 648 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 7: behind mars, and so does everybodybody else he is he. 649 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 7: I don't know how he has kept so positive. He 650 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 7: has come up against roadblock and roadblock and roadblock continuously, 651 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 7: and he still has such a positive attitude about it 652 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 7: and has never given up. 653 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 2: Although he has spent more of his life in prison 654 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,399 Speaker 2: than out, Stacy says he feels more hopeful than ever. 655 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 3: I mean, I've been thinking about you all these years, 656 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 3: so I'm just really glad that you're in a place 657 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:38,839 Speaker 3: of hope right now. 658 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 1: Yep. Oh yeah, really hope, big hope. It's like hope 659 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: and dreams. 660 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you feel like this might be it? 661 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,240 Speaker 6: I'm hoping one step closer. 662 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: I'm hoping. Tell me to know something, some me can help. 663 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: You can contact Innoscant College as they can contact you, 664 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: they can contact me. I hope a lot of people 665 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 1: get involved or asking questions, why is this guy's been prisony? 666 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: You should be there. I just want the whole world No, 667 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: I did not do this crime. I'm interesting. 668 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. 669 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 2: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the 670 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 2: links on our website to see how you can help 671 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 2: Stacy out. If you live in South Dakota, you can 672 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 2: reach out to your elected officials. This episode was written 673 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 2: by me Maggie Freeling, with story editing and sound designed 674 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,720 Speaker 2: by Senior producer Rebecca Ibarra. Our producer is Kathleen Fink. 675 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,240 Speaker 2: Our mixer is Josh Allen, with research by Alison Levy. 676 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 2: An additional production help by Jeff Cleiburn. Executive producers are 677 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 2: Jason Flamm, Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Wortis. The music is 678 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 2: by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Make sure 679 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,879 Speaker 2: to follow us on all social media platforms at Lava 680 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 2: for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow 681 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 2: me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with 682 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 2: Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts 683 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 2: in association with Signal Company Number One. We've worked hard 684 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 2: to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate. 685 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in 686 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,800 Speaker 2: this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect 687 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,840 Speaker 2: those of Lava for Good.