Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Eric from the one you feed. Happy
Speaker 1: Holidays to you. Whether you enjoy them or you hate them,
Speaker 1: I hope you're making the best of them. As a
Speaker 1: holiday gift and as preparation for the new year, we
Speaker 1: are rereleasing seven of the older episodes. If you're new
Speaker 1: to the show, all these episodes are over a year old,
Speaker 1: so you may not have heard these yet if you've
Speaker 1: only been listening for a year. I picked the episodes
Speaker 1: because either a I think it's a really great episode
Speaker 1: or B I think it talks about behavior change, which
Speaker 1: we're heading into the new year, and that's on a
Speaker 1: lot of people's mind. Speaking of which, we are going
Speaker 1: to try something this new year. We're going to try
Speaker 1: the first one You Feed Group Transformation program. It will
Speaker 1: be a hundred dollars for a month. We're gonna limit
Speaker 1: it to ten people. We will meet online four times
Speaker 1: that month, will discuss tips and tricks and different ways
Speaker 1: to ensure that you stay on track behavior wise. You'll
Speaker 1: be able to ask questions of me, and we'll do
Speaker 1: some things where you're paired up as a group so
Speaker 1: that you can get some support outside of the calls
Speaker 1: as well to make sure you get the new year
Speaker 1: off to a great start. So if you're interested, just
Speaker 1: send an email to me Eric at one you feed
Speaker 1: dot net. I hope you enjoy these episodes. I listened
Speaker 1: back to a couple of them, and um, let's just
Speaker 1: leave it at we are getting better at what we do.
Speaker 1: In the very first one, I sound very nervous and
Speaker 1: I was so. Anyway, it's still a great interview. Enjoy these,
Speaker 1: have a happy new year. Thank you for listening, and
Speaker 1: we will talk to you soon. Bye. We don't see
Speaker 1: the world as it is. We see the world as
Speaker 1: we are. Welcome to the one you feed Throughout time,
Speaker 1: great tinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have.
Speaker 1: Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what
Speaker 1: you think ring true. And yet for many of us,
Speaker 1: our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity,
Speaker 1: self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't
Speaker 1: have instead of what we do. We think things that
Speaker 1: hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not
Speaker 1: just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent
Speaker 1: and creative effort to make a life worth living. This
Speaker 1: podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in
Speaker 1: the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the show. Our guest this week is Dan Millman,
Speaker 1: former world champion gymnast and the author of thirteen books,
Speaker 1: including The Way of the Peaceful Warrior, which was made
Speaker 1: into a feature film starring Nick Nolty. His most recent book,
Speaker 1: written with his daughter Sierra, is called The Creative Compass,
Speaker 1: Writing Your Way from Inspiration to Publication and is available
Speaker 1: in bookstores everywhere. You can find more information on Dan
Speaker 1: and this episode and our show notes at One You
Speaker 1: Feed dot net slash Dan. Hi, Dan, thanks for joining
Speaker 1: us today. Hi am glad to be here with you now.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm very excited to have you. I read The
Speaker 1: Way of the Peaceful Warrior probably a long time ago.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm older than I think, I guess, but it's
Speaker 1: probably been at least twenty five years ago, and it
Speaker 1: was it was probably the first book I'd say that
Speaker 1: exposed me to a lot of ideas that you know,
Speaker 1: that are relatively commonplace now, but but for me at
Speaker 1: that time, it was it was pretty eye opening. So
Speaker 1: I thank you for that book. Our podcast is called
Speaker 1: The One You Feed and it's based on the old
Speaker 1: parable where there is a Cherokee grandfather who is talking
Speaker 1: to his grandson and he says, in life, there's a
Speaker 1: battle always going on inside of us. It's it's between
Speaker 1: two wolves. One is a good wolf who represents kindness
Speaker 1: and love and joy, and the other is a bad wolf,
Speaker 1: which represents hate and sorrow and any other negative thing
Speaker 1: you want to you want to add. And the grandson
Speaker 1: looks at his grandfather and says, well, which one wins,
Speaker 1: and the the grandfather says, the one that you feed.
Speaker 1: That's sort of the theme of our podcast. So I'd
Speaker 1: like to start off by just asking you sort of
Speaker 1: how does that parable relate to you, your life, your work,
Speaker 1: and and kind of what does it mean to you.
Speaker 1: I could probably write a long essay on that topic.
Speaker 1: It's a wonderful parable. It applies to so much. What
Speaker 1: comes to mind first is the idea that at the
Speaker 1: end of our day, when we are about to go
Speaker 1: retire for the night, or even when we get up
Speaker 1: in the morning, we have a choice. If we want
Speaker 1: to look at polarities, we can sit down and write
Speaker 1: all the lousy things that happened to us that day.
Speaker 1: The person who cut us off in traffic, someone who
Speaker 1: wasn't fair, someone who has said an unkind word, or
Speaker 1: we can count our blessings and this is a be
Speaker 1: it's but very few of us practice it. We can
Speaker 1: sit down and think about the good things that happened today,
Speaker 1: to sort back through our day about them, the beautiful
Speaker 1: sunrise we saw, or the good breakfast we had, or
Speaker 1: a friend we met we didn't expect to see, and
Speaker 1: that will give us, you know, that's how we feed
Speaker 1: one wolf for the other. That will give us a
Speaker 1: perceptual filter through which we look at our world, and
Speaker 1: we'll tell ourselves, I want to remember what good's going
Speaker 1: to happen to me today, I have to make a
Speaker 1: note of that, or boy, I'm gonna remember the bad
Speaker 1: things that happened. So that is one clear parallel. It's
Speaker 1: probably not something original. I'm sure you've heard different versions
Speaker 1: of it before, but it did come to mind when
Speaker 1: you mentioned which wolf do you want to feed? Because
Speaker 1: we don't see the world as it is, We see
Speaker 1: the world as we are. We all see the world
Speaker 1: through a perceptual filter based on our associations, beliefs, opinions, meanings,
Speaker 1: um and it's like a muddy window, distorted window. And
Speaker 1: part of what we call spiritual work, personal growth work,
Speaker 1: psychological work involves noticing that the window is there, first
Speaker 1: of all, that we're not seeing the world that as
Speaker 1: it is, and we begin to consider how we might
Speaker 1: clean that window, not to make it pink or any
Speaker 1: pretty colors, but actually just to clear it so we
Speaker 1: see life as it is. So those are the first
Speaker 1: thoughts that came up to me. I hope that it
Speaker 1: wasn't too long a monologue. No, it was great. And
Speaker 1: that is Ah, you know, that's a that's a theme.
Speaker 1: We certainly that that keeps showing up in in you know,
Speaker 1: in the conversations we're having. We we had an interview
Speaker 1: last night with a gentleman named Oliver Berkman, who wrote
Speaker 1: a really interesting book called The Antidote Positive or Happiness
Speaker 1: for people who Hate Positive Thinking. But we spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time talking about exactly sort of that it's
Speaker 1: such a fundamental step when you can recognize that your
Speaker 1: thoughts are just your thoughts, they're not they're not necessarily accurate,
Speaker 1: they're not necessarily a real reflection of the world, and
Speaker 1: you have some degree of ability to choose which ones. Uh,
Speaker 1: you focus on. One of the things I've always really
Speaker 1: liked about your work and UM and some of the
Speaker 1: talks I've seen you give is you talk a lot
Speaker 1: about though However, that yes, thought is important. UM. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe we've got some degree of of where we focus
Speaker 1: our attention. But the thoughts are going to come to
Speaker 1: us and of all sorts, and that what really matters
Speaker 1: is kind of what you do, the action that you take.
Speaker 1: Can we talk a little bit about that? Sure? And
Speaker 1: I'd like to give credit where credit is due. I've
Speaker 1: had different mentors in my life. I didn't make this up.
Speaker 1: It was actually a revelation that came to me through
Speaker 1: the work of um. A humble man. He's still alive.
Speaker 1: His name is David K. Reynolds, and he wrote a
Speaker 1: book called Constructive Living, and he pointed out the teachings
Speaker 1: of a Japanese psychiatrist named Showma Morita. Marita had a
Speaker 1: lot of wisdom. For example, once he said, when running
Speaker 1: up a hill, it's okay to give up as many
Speaker 1: times as you want, as long as your feet keep moving.
Speaker 1: In other words, we can give up inside. We can
Speaker 1: say I can't, I can't do this I have doubts,
Speaker 1: I'm unable to do it. All the stuff's going on
Speaker 1: in our heads um as long as our feet keep moving.
Speaker 1: So this is the focused on what we do. And
Speaker 1: Marita had three guidelines for living wisely and well. One
Speaker 1: was except whatever thoughts or feelings you have at the
Speaker 1: moment as natural to you. You don't have to fix them,
Speaker 1: change them, obey them, run from them, resist them, just
Speaker 1: accept them as natural to you. They're like weather, weather
Speaker 1: passing through. The second thing is focused on a constructive
Speaker 1: goal in your life. What do you want to accomplish
Speaker 1: right now? For example, we have a goal right now
Speaker 1: that we're all focusing on. And then the third guideline
Speaker 1: is do what needs to be done in line with
Speaker 1: your goal. It's a very practical way to function in life,
Speaker 1: despite the storms of emotion and thought. That led Mark
Speaker 1: Twain to say, I've had many troubles in my life,
Speaker 1: most of which never happened. We sometimes think we have
Speaker 1: to be in the mood uh to do something, and
Speaker 1: and uh that we have to feel like doing something
Speaker 1: and that and that that poses a real challenge versus
Speaker 1: just doing something. Do you have any insight for people
Speaker 1: on how when they're sort of in that stuck spot
Speaker 1: where where everything inside of them is sort of you know,
Speaker 1: I guess procrastination, right, I don't feel like it. I
Speaker 1: don't want to do this for actually just getting moving.
Speaker 1: Well first, yes I do, But first let me underscore
Speaker 1: what you just said. Um, because we're look, most of
Speaker 1: us grew up with role models that look a lot
Speaker 1: like it's so opera. We have a feeling or thought,
Speaker 1: we acted out as if compelled, As if that feeling
Speaker 1: or thought compelled us to act it out. We get angry,
Speaker 1: we say an angry word, or we strike out at somebody. Uh.
Speaker 1: That's what you see when you turn to a soap
Speaker 1: opera on TV, people having a feeling or thought and
Speaker 1: acting it out. Boom, just like that, and the consequences
Speaker 1: are are messy. So I often remind people to progress
Speaker 1: toward our goals and turn what we know into what
Speaker 1: we actually do. There are two basic methods to do that.
Speaker 1: The first one I'd like to recite to you now,
Speaker 1: which is very popular most people. This is what they
Speaker 1: pursue when they're interested in personal and psychological growth. So
Speaker 1: here's what you can do to turn what you know
Speaker 1: into what you do. Find a way to quiet the mind,
Speaker 1: create empowering beliefs, raise your self esteem, and practice positive
Speaker 1: self talk to find your focus, affirm your power, and
Speaker 1: free your emotions to visualize positive outcomes so that you
Speaker 1: can develop the confidence to generate the courage, to find
Speaker 1: the determination, to make the commitment to feel sufficiently motivated
Speaker 1: to do whatever it is you need to do. The
Speaker 1: second method, which I recommend, is you can just do it,
Speaker 1: because life is always going to come down to are
Speaker 1: you going to do it or not. Now people say, well,
Speaker 1: that's fine, Dan, just do it. But how can I
Speaker 1: get the courage to just do it? How can I
Speaker 1: find the confidence? How can I get the motivation? And
Speaker 1: I go back to you can be not motivated. How
Speaker 1: many of us have taken out the trash or gone
Speaker 1: to school or gone to work when we weren't motivated
Speaker 1: to do it. We we did it. We just did it.
Speaker 1: And that is what life comes down to. And that's
Speaker 1: what makes the difference. Now you may see it, but
Speaker 1: give us a little help. Come on, Dan, my listeners
Speaker 1: would still like to know if there's an easier way.
Speaker 1: And I would suggest in principle that it's fine to
Speaker 1: dream big, but best to start small and then connect
Speaker 1: the dots. So if someone wants to exercise every day,
Speaker 1: I recommend they do one jumping jack every morning at
Speaker 1: the same time. At least they have their exercise period defined.
Speaker 1: Now they can double their workout by doing two jumping
Speaker 1: jack the next month. So start small. If they want
Speaker 1: to learn to meditate, meditate every day for fifteen seconds,
Speaker 1: but at least you're doing it every day. Get your
Speaker 1: foot in the door. Rather than a big resolution, I'm
Speaker 1: going to the gym for an hour and a half
Speaker 1: to work out. You know, for twenty eight years, I've
Speaker 1: done a workout myself every day, no matter where I've
Speaker 1: been in the world, um some odd places too. It's
Speaker 1: a four minute what I call the Peaceful Warrior Workout,
Speaker 1: and I that's available on you know, there's a course.
Speaker 1: People pay whatever they want for it, a dollar, a
Speaker 1: hundred dollars, whatever in between. But the point is there's
Speaker 1: a course with video on my website where people can
Speaker 1: learn the Peaceful Warrior work Out. But that's one example. Um,
Speaker 1: simple is powerful because we're more likely to do it.
Speaker 1: So that is how in terms of just doing it,
Speaker 1: just start small, don't radically change your diet because people
Speaker 1: do then they go back. Just eat a little less
Speaker 1: of what's bad for you, a little more what's good
Speaker 1: for you. Just start small and connect the dots. Get
Speaker 1: get some momentum going, get some positive, positive progress, and
Speaker 1: and build from there. Yeah, you said somewhere, and it's
Speaker 1: something I say a lot too, which is a little
Speaker 1: if something is better than a lot of nothing. I
Speaker 1: find myself. I like to go to boxing um and
Speaker 1: I go to you know, the class is half over.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm still going, you know, because half of
Speaker 1: this class is better than none of this class, which
Speaker 1: is which is a big change from a all or
Speaker 1: nothing mentality that that I, certainly in the past would
Speaker 1: bring to things. And I think a lot of people do.
Speaker 1: If if I can't do this exactly right, or I
Speaker 1: can't fully commit to this, so I can't, you know,
Speaker 1: nothing happens and and uh, you know, little steps make
Speaker 1: up make a big difference. As you say, you know,
Speaker 1: it's funny. I was in doing a consulation, a session,
Speaker 1: a consultation yesterday with someone and it came down to
Speaker 1: that one thing that was really affecting his life. For him,
Speaker 1: it was all or nothing, I'm good or I'm bad.
Speaker 1: If I'm not, if I'm not pure and the perfect
Speaker 1: peaceful warrior, then I'm falling off the path. And he
Speaker 1: was caught up in this all or nothing mentality, and
Speaker 1: so many of us can be. So that's why these shades.
Speaker 1: To start to see the shades and a little bit better.
Speaker 1: That's so important. You know, one of the things that
Speaker 1: is I would like about about your work, And a
Speaker 1: lot of times it's sort of similar to you know
Speaker 1: about your your thoughts. As also you say you know,
Speaker 1: knowledge alone does not suffice, it has no heart, or
Speaker 1: you know elsewhere you say that no amount of knowledge
Speaker 1: will nourish or sustain your spirit. Uh so it's you know,
Speaker 1: you're you're, you're describing sort of the same thing. How
Speaker 1: do we that knowing this stuff is great? But you know,
Speaker 1: if I if I had meditated, uh you know, ten
Speaker 1: minutes for every hour I had read about meditating, I
Speaker 1: probably would be far better off. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people fall into that camp. It's a lot
Speaker 1: easier to sit on the couch eating cheese it's reading
Speaker 1: about spiritual growth than it is to do some of
Speaker 1: the work. Well, many of us know all the terms
Speaker 1: and the jargon. We can talk about the chakras and
Speaker 1: all the sophisticated ideas, but you're right. You know that
Speaker 1: little story about the young scholar who was being pulled
Speaker 1: across a raging river in India by a brave ferryman,
Speaker 1: and they were being going across gradually this river, and
Speaker 1: the young scholar was telling the the ferryman all the
Speaker 1: things he'd studied and the degrees he'd earned. And the
Speaker 1: ferryman said, I was very impressive hearing this, But in
Speaker 1: all your studies, did you ever learn to swim? And
Speaker 1: the young scholars said, well no. He said that's too bad,
Speaker 1: because this wrapped is sinking. So yes, practice practice daily
Speaker 1: life is a practice. It's a form of spiritual weightlifting.
Speaker 1: And it's not about succeeding every day and everything everything
Speaker 1: work out right. It's about how can we grow stronger.
Speaker 1: That's why St. Augustine said, I pray not for a
Speaker 1: lighter load, but for stronger shoulders. Several of your books
Speaker 1: talk about UM and and reference sort of life purpose.
Speaker 1: Can you share a little bit about UM, what that
Speaker 1: means to you and and sort of where you go
Speaker 1: in your in your work on that area. When I
Speaker 1: do right and it is a central interest of mine. Um.
Speaker 1: I like where you're leading, but I'd like to jump
Speaker 1: back just for a moment first, because we started out
Speaker 1: with the parable of the two wolves, the good wolf
Speaker 1: and the bad wolf, and I'd like to offer it
Speaker 1: maybe a little more original perspective then the example I gave.
Speaker 1: I think it's an important one about uh, you know,
Speaker 1: sorting for blessings or what happened negatively. But there is
Speaker 1: another more original approach, the idea of that there's no
Speaker 1: actually good or bad. You know, Roomy said out beyond
Speaker 1: wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field. I'll meet
Speaker 1: you there. Um. And of course what he meant was
Speaker 1: there's a way to look at life, not from a
Speaker 1: moralistic view of good or bad, but of action and consequences.
Speaker 1: So we don't make moral judgments. That was a bad thing.
Speaker 1: People make the best choice they can't they see at
Speaker 1: the time. Their friends may say, how can you make
Speaker 1: this choice? But to them it's the only choice they
Speaker 1: have are the best one they have available. So I've
Speaker 1: stopped really judging whether someone's good or bad, right or wrong,
Speaker 1: moral or not. But I do point out that certain
Speaker 1: actions may be more likely to lead to certain consequences,
Speaker 1: and that's one definition of whizz them being able to
Speaker 1: get some some appreciate, some site into the potential consequences
Speaker 1: of our actions, and that's more likely to guide our lives.
Speaker 1: And by the way that the brain with two sides
Speaker 1: of the brain, there are not just two wolves inside
Speaker 1: of us, but there are also these polarized characters inside
Speaker 1: of us. We each of us have the puritan and
Speaker 1: the headonist, someone who's practices self self denial and someone
Speaker 1: who practices self indulgence. And a lot of our lives
Speaker 1: are balancing those two and finding out when it's appropriate
Speaker 1: to celebrate and expand into life and be more of
Speaker 1: a hedonist than other times. Maybe that puritan being, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe leaner and following the rules that may be more useful.
Speaker 1: As well. We have inside of us a callous person,
Speaker 1: and it's in a very sentimental person. And again there
Speaker 1: are moments where each is useful. And there we also
Speaker 1: have inside of us a peacock and a chicken. The
Speaker 1: peacock is very very They have a sense of self
Speaker 1: respect and and dignity. Where's the chicken lack self respect?
Speaker 1: But there are times even that is appropriate. Those different
Speaker 1: roles to play in life. So those wolves just represent
Speaker 1: one aspect of our being. And I love the story
Speaker 1: and and that's why I wanted to just relate to
Speaker 1: it um in that way and before we get into life.
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things I've always liked about,
Speaker 1: at least some of the Buddhist readings I've done, is
Speaker 1: that it moves away from good, bad, moral, immoral, and
Speaker 1: talks about things that are skillful and unskillful. And that's
Speaker 1: a that's a term that resonates a lot more. But
Speaker 1: describing a skillful and unskillful wolf takes the teeth out
Speaker 1: of the analogy, so to speak, well, in a way
Speaker 1: it does, you know, we want we want the drama,
Speaker 1: because when we tell the story, what makes a good
Speaker 1: story isn't dramatic conflict. Um. If you if you have
Speaker 1: a story that has no conflict, people just walking here
Speaker 1: and then doing this and doing that. As a writer,
Speaker 1: it makes there's no story are there, There's no there's
Speaker 1: It doesn't pull you in. So the idea of a
Speaker 1: good wolf and battle of bad wolf for the sake
Speaker 1: of the analogy, I think it's still appropriate. But I
Speaker 1: did want to comment upon the idea of that within
Speaker 1: us there. Yeah, I like skillful or less skillful. That's nice,
Speaker 1: nice idea. Okay, life purpose Okay, well, Robert Byrne, the
Speaker 1: quote Master, said, the purpose of life is a life
Speaker 1: of purpose, and I already indicated in Morita's advice to
Speaker 1: to know your purpose and then do what needs to
Speaker 1: be done. Um. You know in the Peaceful Warrior movie
Speaker 1: some of your listeners may have seen that movie with
Speaker 1: Nick Nolty. Um, the character, my character Dan says, you know,
Speaker 1: he comes to a realization that what makes us happy
Speaker 1: is the journey, not just the destination. And there may
Speaker 1: be a certain wisdom to that, because most of our
Speaker 1: life is spent on the journey, not reaching the destination.
Speaker 1: And it's use full psychologically. If you're going up a mountain,
Speaker 1: not to feel like a failure because you haven't reached
Speaker 1: the top, but to enjoy the journey on the way. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's fine. But the idea that it's it's just about
Speaker 1: the journey and the desky the journey, excuse me, um,
Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense in a big way because without
Speaker 1: a destination in mind, there is no journey. If we're
Speaker 1: at point A, we have to have a point B
Speaker 1: and we're hardwired gold seekers. Anyway, look at a young baby.
Speaker 1: We have a five month old granddaughter now, little Beauty,
Speaker 1: and she she's not yet crawling, but when she starts,
Speaker 1: I can promise you, if she sees something she wants,
Speaker 1: she's gonna be crawling purposefully toward that object. Um. And
Speaker 1: so even when we're babies, were always moving towards some goal,
Speaker 1: something we want. So I think the idea of having
Speaker 1: a purpose, um is quite important. One of my books
Speaker 1: is called The Four Purposes of Life, and um. You know,
Speaker 1: I had some friends come up to me when I
Speaker 1: was writing that book and they said, Dan, I know
Speaker 1: the purpose of life. It's learning to love. You know,
Speaker 1: whatever the question, love is the answer. And I couldn't
Speaker 1: argue with that. It sounds very good to me. But
Speaker 1: then another friend said, no, no, we all know the
Speaker 1: purpose of life is is illumination, God, realization, unity, you
Speaker 1: know whatever we want to describe it, enlightenment. And then
Speaker 1: another friend said, yeah, but that's all kind of philosophy.
Speaker 1: Those are mental ideas. We know. Our biological purpose is
Speaker 1: to reproduce and you know, keep the species going. And
Speaker 1: another friend said, but there are as many purposes as
Speaker 1: there are people. Um. Again, all those have a lot
Speaker 1: of wisdom. But if we look at our lives through
Speaker 1: the spectrum of well, just like we can look at
Speaker 1: the year and divide the year into four seasons, and
Speaker 1: just as we can divide the points on a compass
Speaker 1: into four primary directions. By looking in our lives from
Speaker 1: the filter of four or purposes, it gives it our
Speaker 1: lives a sense of order and structure. We have a
Speaker 1: context instead of just waking up here on planet Earth
Speaker 1: wondering what is this about. So in the book I
Speaker 1: go into the four purposes, which I hate to even
Speaker 1: summarize them because people think, oh, I've heard that already,
Speaker 1: But no they haven't, not really. Um. The first is
Speaker 1: learning life's lessons. You know, daily life is a school,
Speaker 1: a perfect divine school, where lessons repeat themselves until we
Speaker 1: learn them. And the second purpose is finding our career
Speaker 1: and calling and noticing the difference between a career and
Speaker 1: a calling and what that's about. And the third purpose
Speaker 1: has to do with another book I wrote called The
Speaker 1: Life You Were Born to Live, which helps us to
Speaker 1: find our life path, a certain pattern we're here to
Speaker 1: work out in this life. And the fourth purpose, maybe
Speaker 1: the most important one of all, because it ties brings
Speaker 1: them all down to Earth, which is our purpose arising
Speaker 1: in this moment. We may not know our cosmic purpose,
Speaker 1: but we can know our purpose right in this moment.
Speaker 1: You know yours right now? You you write you and
Speaker 1: Chris do I do? It's very clear to us. So
Speaker 1: the more we focus on our purpose in this moment,
Speaker 1: it could be said, whatever the question now is the
Speaker 1: answer you said? They're talked about sort of the life
Speaker 1: as a school, uh, and and lessons to learn? Could
Speaker 1: you give us just a couple of those lessons and
Speaker 1: and also elaborate on something I've heard you say, which
Speaker 1: is that, uh, the lessons get harder until you learn them,
Speaker 1: which I think is a is interesting if I apply
Speaker 1: that to certain areas in my life that you might say,
Speaker 1: you know, our challenging is you know, are they getting
Speaker 1: more challenging because there's something that you know that I'm
Speaker 1: not learning? Well, if we don't learn the easy lessons,
Speaker 1: they they tend to get more dramatic to get our attention.
Speaker 1: So that's why I say it's a perfect school. Um. Yes.
Speaker 1: If someone might say, okay, you find Anne, Yeah, the
Speaker 1: idea makes sense to me that life a kind of school.
Speaker 1: And you know, I know more than I did. I
Speaker 1: understand I better perspective than when I was fourteen years old.
Speaker 1: But if life is a school, what courses do we
Speaker 1: have to pass in order to graduate? And that's a
Speaker 1: fair question, and as it turns out, from what I've seen,
Speaker 1: I would propose that there are twelve different courses every
Speaker 1: one of us is already working on through our relationships,
Speaker 1: the work we do, health and physical issues, through the
Speaker 1: challenges of everyday life. We're gradually starting to see those
Speaker 1: twelve areas and essentially to recite them very briefly. And
Speaker 1: by the way, there is an online another online course
Speaker 1: at my website called Master the Path of the Peaceful Warrior,
Speaker 1: which goes through all these twelve areas. Each week people
Speaker 1: get a new lesson on each of these, and they
Speaker 1: are in a list discovering our worth, which tends to
Speaker 1: help us avoid self sabotage. The second uh class we're
Speaker 1: here to learn about in daily life is reclaiming our
Speaker 1: will and learning that what that's about. The third is
Speaker 1: energizing our body, major element for many people, and those
Speaker 1: form the foundation for all that follow including managing our money,
Speaker 1: taming our mind, and I have a very different take
Speaker 1: than the traditional say, Buddhistic approach. Um. The sixth area
Speaker 1: is trusting our intuition, which really is about balancing our
Speaker 1: brains because we tend to be left brain heavy in
Speaker 1: our culture and we need to start to trust our
Speaker 1: intuition and feel our ways, sense our way in life
Speaker 1: as well. As a boxer, you know that you can't
Speaker 1: think what's going to happen, you know, Mike Tyson said,
Speaker 1: first you make a plan, then you get hit. And
Speaker 1: then the last six courses are accept our emotions, face
Speaker 1: our fears, Illuminate our shadow, which is about self knowledge.
Speaker 1: Then comes embrace our set actuality, then awaken our heart,
Speaker 1: and the final one is serve our world, which brings
Speaker 1: all of them full circle. So again that the online
Speaker 1: course goes into all those areas with video and everything.
Speaker 1: So if life is a school, and uh, you know
Speaker 1: those are the classes, what is graduation? Is there? Graduation?
Speaker 1: Is there a in your sense of reason behind? Uh?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm teaching my son to drive, and you
Speaker 1: know the reason is so that he will be successful
Speaker 1: on the road and he can drive himself around. Do
Speaker 1: you does your work go into why or is that really?
Speaker 1: Is that more sort of life purpose? And everybody has
Speaker 1: to figure out. Well, whenever anybody asked me either or question,
Speaker 1: I usually answer both. Uh. But but I'd have to
Speaker 1: say that, I mean, you're asking a very fundamental question
Speaker 1: in the philosophical sense of what does graduation represent? Of
Speaker 1: course I'm drawing an analogy, and no analogy is exact um.
Speaker 1: And in some traditions, look, we live in two worlds.
Speaker 1: We live in a conventional world of daily life, doing
Speaker 1: the duties and things we do, and playing our roles
Speaker 1: in everyday life. But there is a transcendental realm as
Speaker 1: well that many of the writers and teachers, from the
Speaker 1: Taoist masters to the Buddhists, to the Tibetan masters, um
Speaker 1: to people like Pharaoh, Emerson, the transcendentalist writers Umchuan su Allowed,
Speaker 1: to the Greeks and Romans Epictetus, Plato, Socrates, they were
Speaker 1: all pointing towards the transcendent. And people move to religion
Speaker 1: when they are genuinely pulled into a not just raised
Speaker 1: in a particular religion, but when they gravitate toward a
Speaker 1: religion or spiritual practice. It's reflects a yearning for the
Speaker 1: transcendent to not rise above, but to see through and
Speaker 1: completely surrendered to the world, but to start to see
Speaker 1: the divine realm shining through that sense of okayness, as
Speaker 1: as a profound reminder that it is all right, that
Speaker 1: wherever we step, the path appears beneath our feet. And
Speaker 1: each of these realms has its own truths. For example,
Speaker 1: in the conventional world, death is absolutely real. We've seen it.
Speaker 1: I've seen my father die. I know the before and
Speaker 1: after um, And we grieve those we lose, depending on
Speaker 1: how old they are and so on. UM. In the
Speaker 1: conventional world, we are separate, individuated beings. If I bang
Speaker 1: my toe, it doesn't hurt you unless you're highly empathic. Um.
Speaker 1: And if I have a feeling or a thought, you
Speaker 1: probably don't have the same one at the same time.
Speaker 1: So emotionally, mentally and physically we're separate, individuated beings. UM.
Speaker 1: We could also say that there are that accidents happen
Speaker 1: in the conventional world, we knock a glass of liquid
Speaker 1: over because we're not paying attention. But from a transcendental view,
Speaker 1: there are no accidents, only lessons. From a transcendental view,
Speaker 1: we are all one, because we're the same consciousness or
Speaker 1: awareness shining through all these different eyes. And from a
Speaker 1: transcendental view, death is an illusion because who we are
Speaker 1: was never born and never dies, which is pure awareness
Speaker 1: or consciousness. Now, saying these words doesn't make it true
Speaker 1: that the challenge is realizing it, realizing it as a
Speaker 1: living truth where it penetrates us. And often we burst
Speaker 1: out with laughter when we get the joke and the
Speaker 1: punchline to the cosmic joke. You know. So these are
Speaker 1: two realms in which we live, and that's important to
Speaker 1: understand when we talk about what does graduation mean. So
Speaker 1: from a conventional of the graduation is maybe success, a
Speaker 1: sense of fulfillment, functioning well in life, feeling happy as
Speaker 1: a default mode, even though all kinds of emotions come
Speaker 1: and go naturally. Um that presents a full and mature
Speaker 1: human being. But from a transcendental view, graduation is absolute,
Speaker 1: nothing less than uh realization, the complete transcendence of the
Speaker 1: usual beliefs, thoughts, and ideas. That that creates suffering and
Speaker 1: attachment and clinging and resistance. But talking about it is
Speaker 1: one thing, as you pointed out, and living it and
Speaker 1: realizing it is another. Some people use psychotropic substances to
Speaker 1: get a preview of coming attractions and others. And that's
Speaker 1: that's fine for those who go that path. I've never
Speaker 1: recommended drugs as recreational activities, but as a sacred practice
Speaker 1: it can be extremely useful, depending on the person, the place,
Speaker 1: and the time. Um. But others do spiritual practices and
Speaker 1: contemplate and meditate, do inner work to clear what's in
Speaker 1: the way of that obvious truth that's right in front
Speaker 1: of knows. And I think that's it's interesting that you know,
Speaker 1: I've I've you know, you've said, and a lot of
Speaker 1: other people have said that sort of even once you
Speaker 1: should you get far enough down the road or or
Speaker 1: or uh, grasp that transcendental truth that life is still
Speaker 1: life right after that, you know, it's sort of, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, before enlightenment, chopwood carry water. After enlightenment, chopwood
Speaker 1: carry water. I think you have a good story in
Speaker 1: the Peaceful Warrior, uh to some degree about that. So
Speaker 1: it sounds like what you're saying is even with that
Speaker 1: that full realization, uh, you still have this other you
Speaker 1: still remain in this other realm exactly. And again, conventionally speaking,
Speaker 1: enlightenment makes almost no difference. You might feel a bit
Speaker 1: less stressed, you might be a little more relaxed, Breathe
Speaker 1: a little deeper, smile a bit more, have a good
Speaker 1: sense of humor, not take yourself as seriously. But except
Speaker 1: for those qualities, it's not visible. It's not obvious. People
Speaker 1: think someone is going to be shining and glowing and
Speaker 1: have mysterious powers. Now, it doesn't make much of a difference.
Speaker 1: Conventionally speaking, transcendently speaking, everything changes. It makes all the
Speaker 1: difference in the world, and those who have had a
Speaker 1: glimpse of it say this is the most important thing
Speaker 1: in life period. But on the other hand, you talk
Speaker 1: about a path, we tend to picture things in a journey.
Speaker 1: We're here, we want to be there, but the seeking
Speaker 1: only reinforces the sense of dilemma that set us seeking
Speaker 1: in the first place. In truth, there is no journey.
Speaker 1: It's a journey without distance, coming back to exactly who
Speaker 1: we are right now. The simplicity of it great. Do
Speaker 1: you want to spend a minute and talk about the
Speaker 1: your your latest book that you wrote with your daughter.
Speaker 1: I'd love to mention it. It's been a real labor
Speaker 1: of love on many levels. Um The creative Compass is
Speaker 1: certainly for writers, any writer, and there are many many
Speaker 1: books on writing. Let me acknowledge that the feedback we're
Speaker 1: getting is this is this covers it all, um, and
Speaker 1: it's just it's not a huge book, but it really
Speaker 1: does touch upon the entire creative journey. So even if
Speaker 1: people aren't don't see themselves as writers, we all right,
Speaker 1: we all tell stories every day, um, and this helps
Speaker 1: us to understand when we create anything, it goes through
Speaker 1: these five stages of dream, draft, develop, refine, and share,
Speaker 1: And the creative compass takes people and guides them like
Speaker 1: a compass along that journey, along that whole path. And
Speaker 1: I learned a lot writing the book, um myself. And
Speaker 1: so it's been a you know, I think Siah and
Speaker 1: I combined wrote a better book than either one of
Speaker 1: us could have written on our own. UM. So quite
Speaker 1: proud of it. And we're we're doing book signings and
Speaker 1: so on regarding the book. And there's a link to
Speaker 1: it on the website as well. And she has a
Speaker 1: wonderful blog on our journey together creating this book at
Speaker 1: her website, but I linked to it on my homepage,
Speaker 1: so um, there we are. But thank you for letting
Speaker 1: me mention that. Yeah, maybe just share a second. I mean,
Speaker 1: I you know, having having kids, I can imagine how
Speaker 1: wonderful it would be to sort of create something like
Speaker 1: that with your child. Can you just share a little
Speaker 1: bit about what that experience was like for you, Not
Speaker 1: so much what the books about, but but what it
Speaker 1: was like working with your daughter. Sure. Um, when she
Speaker 1: was young, I would edit her work. I would review
Speaker 1: it and make comments and suggestions. And then she got older,
Speaker 1: she her writing got stronger and stronger, and she she
Speaker 1: took in much of the advice that I gave her,
Speaker 1: excuse me, and that other people gave her. And she
Speaker 1: had a very good education um at Stanford Madill Journalism School,
Speaker 1: Masters in Journalism, what lived in Lebanon, UM and learned,
Speaker 1: became proficient in speaking, reading and writing in Arabic um
Speaker 1: five a capit. She was again very good educational foundation.
Speaker 1: And so I've been thinking about doing a writing book
Speaker 1: for some years, that I might be able to write
Speaker 1: something original that hadn't been said um. But it was
Speaker 1: still kind of a vague but sticky idea. It stayed
Speaker 1: with me for a decade, and finally I decided, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's time to write this book, and it was a
Speaker 1: perfectly natural thing to ask Sierra on this particular book
Speaker 1: if she might collaborate with me, and we were both
Speaker 1: glad that that it turned out that way. Um. We
Speaker 1: have very different processes in working, but that can't helped
Speaker 1: us appreciate the process of every writer that it may
Speaker 1: be different. So that's why the subtitle is writing your
Speaker 1: Way from Inspiration to Publication excellent. UM, do you have
Speaker 1: anything Dan that you feel like we should we should
Speaker 1: cover that's that's relevant to our our podcast and our
Speaker 1: theme that we haven't talked about. You know, I feel
Speaker 1: like we've covered an immense amount of material actually, um,
Speaker 1: and I hope uh any listeners might want to go
Speaker 1: back and listen to it a second time because many
Speaker 1: of us we're hearing, we're it's like we're listening, but
Speaker 1: we're not necessarily hearing. We can only hear through perceptual
Speaker 1: filters the way we see the world, and so little
Speaker 1: by little it sinks in. We don't just learn something.
Speaker 1: We learned deeper and then deeper until it penetrates us.
Speaker 1: So there have been some uh as, I think you
Speaker 1: appreciate some seminal ideas we've touched upon today. And you know,
Speaker 1: they say you you teach what you need to learn.
Speaker 1: I must needed have needed to learn a lot after
Speaker 1: seventy books, So I think it's important I just leave
Speaker 1: your listeners with the importance of trusting the process of
Speaker 1: their life unfolding and where they are right now and
Speaker 1: wherever we step the path is going to appear beneath
Speaker 1: our feet exactly. And I think we did cover you know,
Speaker 1: I think we've covered about three or four books of
Speaker 1: your material very quickly. So I would also encourage listeners
Speaker 1: to go out and and read some of that stuff
Speaker 1: in in more depth than We'll have all that links
Speaker 1: to all that on our show notes on the site. Uh. Dan,
Speaker 1: thank you very much. It's a it's a great pleasure
Speaker 1: to have you on the show. I've been like I said,
Speaker 1: I your work meant a lot to me a long
Speaker 1: time ago, still does and I'm really happy we could
Speaker 1: get you on here. I do many interviews, Eric, this
Speaker 1: is one of my favorites. Thank you very much. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you. You can find more information on Dan and
Speaker 1: this episode and our show notes at one you feed
Speaker 1: dot net slash Dan