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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, you're welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,

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Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, and that makes

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Speaker 1: this stuff you should know? And Chuck Chuck Chuck. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Before we get started, I feel like we should say

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Speaker 1: something to some of the newcomers who haven't quite figured

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Speaker 1: out our vibe yet. When there's a couple, the two

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Speaker 1: we'll call them the twins when we say stuff you

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Speaker 1: should know. We even said this on Jeopardy. By the way.

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Speaker 1: When we say stuff you should know, we're not saying like,

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Speaker 1: why don't you already know this? Stuff? You should know this.

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Speaker 1: We're saying, this is so interesting. We we want to

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Speaker 1: share this with you. We think you should know this,

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Speaker 1: so we want to tell you about it. That's the

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Speaker 1: purpose of the title of the episode of the podcast.

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Speaker 1: We should call it in this tone, exactly, here's something

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Speaker 1: you should know. Guy's okay, it's trying to get that

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Speaker 1: out of the way. I love that. Do you feel

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Speaker 1: like there's been confusion. I feel like it's been confusion

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Speaker 1: for thirteen years among some people. I think some people

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Speaker 1: are actually offended by it, Like who these guys think

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Speaker 1: they are telling me what I should know, didn't you

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Speaker 1: think of Yeah? And it was apparently imperfect because you know,

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Speaker 1: I had an alternate title back then, what was yours?

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Speaker 1: Do you have something you should know? Guys, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to try and do my best to couch my disdain

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Speaker 1: for today's topic. Well, I think you already missed that mission. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's about Alistair and there's a lot of just you know,

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Speaker 1: someone like him was very divisive. You could go to

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Speaker 1: any uh internet board and read a little bit about

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Speaker 1: this dude and you will still see so much divisiveness. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And there's a lot of conflicting information, including right before

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Speaker 1: we recorded recorded I said something about Crowley and he

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Speaker 1: said I heard it was Crowley. Yeah, So like, uh,

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Speaker 1: but I just you know, I'm gonna go ahead and

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Speaker 1: get this out of the way. We'll we'll do an

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Speaker 1: overview of this guy. But I found him to be

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Speaker 1: above all narcissistic, one of the most self aggrandizing, misogynistic,

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Speaker 1: manipulating users of others who didn't really have anything interesting

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Speaker 1: to say or add to the good of human kind. Wow,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, and yet this was your pick. What

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Speaker 1: made you decide to want to do one on on

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Speaker 1: Mr Crowley. Crowley, I didn't know anything that much about him,

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Speaker 1: so now I do, and now I can have my

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Speaker 1: own informed opinion. But if you go on these message boards,

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Speaker 1: you'll find people that say what I said. We'll find

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Speaker 1: people that say the man was pure evil and you know,

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah of that train. I don't think he was.

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Speaker 1: I think he was. Uh. And then other people who

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Speaker 1: are like, he's my hero. Yeah. I think in the

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Speaker 1: people who uh he is he is a hero too,

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Speaker 1: are also not so like disillusion that they're like, no,

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Speaker 1: he was great in every way. They're like, he was misunderstood.

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Speaker 1: And he also was often his own worst enemy is

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Speaker 1: usually how they kind of defended. Because it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: whether he was a hero to you, the most evil

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Speaker 1: person in the world. He was frequently called the most

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Speaker 1: wicked man in the world or just a total a

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Speaker 1: hole who didn't contribute anything. Um, he was a jerk,

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Speaker 1: everyone can. Everyone agrees. That's the one thing everyone agrees on,

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Speaker 1: that he was a total jerk. Well, I think that's

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Speaker 1: where the narcissism is something that really triggers me in particular,

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Speaker 1: So that just kept popping up over and over, and

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Speaker 1: I just kept saying, who does this guy think he is?

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Speaker 1: You must have had a really hard time during the

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Speaker 1: narcissist epic epidemic of the two thousand odds. What was that?

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Speaker 1: Don't you remember? It was like a whole psychology moving

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Speaker 1: through this para psychologist basically tried to make their career

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Speaker 1: by trying to prove that there was an entire generation

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Speaker 1: of narcissists that have been raised and now every the

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Speaker 1: world was about to be ruined, and general was right,

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Speaker 1: but it was, you know, pop psychology. What generation was it?

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Speaker 1: I guess millennials is what they were who they were

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Speaker 1: talking about, which is kind of mean because that was

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Speaker 1: at the time everybody's picking on millennials for just about everything.

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Speaker 1: And then these two come in and we're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and get this, they're also narcissists. I don't know about that,

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Speaker 1: but I think in Crowley Crowley's case, uh, there's a

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Speaker 1: narcissistem that's sisum, that's uh a narcissiystem. Actually I said

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Speaker 1: it right, This kind of off the charts, like there's

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Speaker 1: a self importance that it self importance really bugs me too.

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Speaker 1: So intertwined someone who really thinks they have a lot

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Speaker 1: to say. Uh. I mean, you can tell by how

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Speaker 1: much this guy wrote, like overwriting, I have so much

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Speaker 1: to say, write fifty books and like read any of

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Speaker 1: this stuff and it's just like kill me. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: all right, so I'm gonna park all that to the

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Speaker 1: side and beat totally neutral from here on. Now. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think you have to be, but I do

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Speaker 1: think we should explain why this guy would even be

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Speaker 1: worth a podcast episode. Then, um, part of let's just

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Speaker 1: say who he is first, because everyone who doesn't know

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Speaker 1: Ozzy Osbourne is like, who even is this jerk? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So even if you don't even if you're not familiar

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Speaker 1: with Ozzy Osbourne, which stop this podcast right now and

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Speaker 1: go familiarize yourself with the body of work of Ozzy Osbourne.

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Speaker 1: Start with come Back, and then go back to the

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Speaker 1: Black Sabbath, right Um, Like, even if you're not familiar

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Speaker 1: with that, you probably have seen a picture of Alistair Crowley.

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Speaker 1: The picture the basically the picture where he looks like

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Speaker 1: he's doing the Olan Mills pose, like Hey, I'm just

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Speaker 1: hanging out around the barnyard feeling good right now, but

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Speaker 1: he's actually performing a magic ritual oppose um a form

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Speaker 1: I think is what they were called. Uh, everybody's seen

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Speaker 1: that picture, right, I think so, I mean you probably

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Speaker 1: a lot of people have probably seen it. Didn't know

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Speaker 1: that's who that was even, right? And even if you

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Speaker 1: haven't seen that picture and you still haven't heard of

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Speaker 1: Alistair Crowley, if you're a Beatles fan, if you are

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Speaker 1: a fan of new age stuff, Uh, if you like crystals,

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Speaker 1: if you buy people candles with their birthday horoscope on

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Speaker 1: them because you think it's actually going to influence their year,

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Speaker 1: you can thank Alistair Crowley because he was basically the

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Speaker 1: center point for all of that stuff coming about in

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Speaker 1: the West, the idea of occultism, mysticism um, spirituality outside

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Speaker 1: of Christianity, Judaism, and even islam um. That the fact

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Speaker 1: that it's present in Europe and America today is almost

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Speaker 1: exclusively through his efforts and work. Yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: will say this, The only reason he's noteworthy is because

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Speaker 1: he did what he did when he did it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In the eighties, if you would turn on Jerry Springer

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Speaker 1: on on any day, you would see eight Alistair Crowley

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Speaker 1: sitting on stage. But this guy was doing it, you know,

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Speaker 1: very early on in the nineteen hundreds throughout the early

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Speaker 1: twentieth century when that kind of stuff, like that's why

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Speaker 1: he got so much press was because he was doing

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Speaker 1: things that you dare not speak of it at a

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Speaker 1: time when people weren't doing these things, or at least

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Speaker 1: out loud. Even today still people are like, this guy

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Speaker 1: was really over the top and bounds in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways. Like you said, there's some people in the

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Speaker 1: message boards who still are like he was evil. They're

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Speaker 1: still scared of him. Uh. And this guy has been

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Speaker 1: dead for sixties seventy years, and even when he was alive,

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Speaker 1: he really wasn't all that menacing. I mean, um, like

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Speaker 1: he tried to be. But if you just stopped and

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Speaker 1: we're like, what are you doing and really kind of

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Speaker 1: took yourself out of his his little realm, you might

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Speaker 1: even laugh at him. Depending on the situation. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know you would, all right. So let's I guess start

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Speaker 1: at the beginning and what kind of breeze through his childhood,

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Speaker 1: which was formative for sure. Uh. He was born in

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Speaker 1: eighteen seventy five in England. Uh, he's he's a british

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Speaker 1: Man and he was born into a wealthy family. His

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Speaker 1: family were Brewers, they brewed ale and but we're very,

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Speaker 1: very religious, and this was a big, big deal because

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Speaker 1: they were members of a of a religious group called

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Speaker 1: a Christian group called the Brethren, which was sort of

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Speaker 1: just Christianity on steroids as far as uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: saying things like sex was bad and sinning was bad, uh,

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Speaker 1: to the point where it reversed him. It had the

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Speaker 1: opposite effect. Yeah, not only was like sex bad, like

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Speaker 1: that's bread and butter Christian stuff. This was like, um,

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Speaker 1: like you didn't sign the lease I saw, or you

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Speaker 1: didn't like take out life insurance because it suggested that

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Speaker 1: you didn't have full faith that Jesus was about to

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Speaker 1: come back any day now, like you didn't plan for

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Speaker 1: the future. You also didn't take medicine and that ended

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Speaker 1: up killing his father, Alistair Crowley's father Um, who developed

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Speaker 1: cancer and that apparently was a treatable condition at the time,

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Speaker 1: which kind of surprised me. Although they were probably just

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Speaker 1: gonna cut his tongue out, that was it, But rather

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Speaker 1: where they really is that what they were gonna do?

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Speaker 1: I mean when they say cancer of the tongue and surgery,

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Speaker 1: than what else could it mean? Okay, sure, so Um,

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Speaker 1: the Brethren that of which he was a member, apparently

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Speaker 1: they were an equal egalitarian group. They all kind of

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Speaker 1: got together and like, we don't think you should do that.

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Speaker 1: We think that it kind of shows a lack of

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Speaker 1: faith in Jesus. And he was like, Okay, I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna roll the dice and see what happens. And he died. Um.

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Speaker 1: And that apparently really soured Alistair Crowley on Christianity because

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Speaker 1: he really looked up to his father one. But I

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Speaker 1: think he also really fully bought like the Brethren as well. Um,

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Speaker 1: and this was a huge like jarring um crash into

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Speaker 1: a wall. Yeah, you know, it left him with a

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Speaker 1: lot of money when he would become an adult, I think. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and the Grabster helped us out with this one. I

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Speaker 1: think he said it was about two million bucks in

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Speaker 1: today's money, so a lot of money, but as we

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Speaker 1: will see, certainly not enough to last a lifetime even

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Speaker 1: back then, at least the way he burned through it. Definitely,

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Speaker 1: it's amazing it lasted as long as it did. Really. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it made me wonder how much drugs cost back then,

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Speaker 1: because he bought a lot of them. Yeah, but he

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Speaker 1: could just go down to the local chemist or you know,

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Speaker 1: um pharmacy and buy him over the counter. So they

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Speaker 1: were relatively cheap, I guess I would guess. So, yeah, alright,

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Speaker 1: chemist doesn't try to tax you. Yeah, everyone knows pharmaceuticals

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Speaker 1: are super cheap. Uh. So he was left with his mom,

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Speaker 1: who you know, by all accounts, they didn't have the

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Speaker 1: best relationship. Um. She was also super religious. I think

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Speaker 1: ed dug up in one biography that he sort of

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Speaker 1: treated her as if she were the help uh in

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Speaker 1: one of the servants, and she in fact referred to

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Speaker 1: him as the Beast, which was from the Book of Revelations,

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Speaker 1: in a name that he would later I think he

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Speaker 1: kind of keep on using for himself. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: saw that she was I saw both that she was

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Speaker 1: jokingly calling him that in a way but also just

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Speaker 1: chiding him for his bad behavior, or that she was

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Speaker 1: a very, very pious person, and that she would not

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Speaker 1: have called him the Beast unless she was like genuinely

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Speaker 1: disgrace and and um abhorred by his behavior, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, Like she she wouldn't have used that lightly.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not sure I'm gonna go with that. The

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Speaker 1: second interpretation because it's it's scarier. Uh. So then he

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Speaker 1: eventually makes his way to Cambridge in he didn't graduate,

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Speaker 1: but this was where he really kind of started getting

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Speaker 1: interested in two things that would define the rest of

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Speaker 1: his life. Uh, the occult and sex. Yeah, for sure,

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Speaker 1: that's where his his life Countries is typical going to

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Speaker 1: college stuff, you know, sort of um, and and he

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Speaker 1: was also he got into some other stuff that we

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Speaker 1: don't have to get into it much, but he he

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Speaker 1: was a mass or not like a grand master, but

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Speaker 1: he was a really good chess player for a while

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Speaker 1: then the grand master from what I saw, like if

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Speaker 1: he had pursued it, yeah, yeah, like he was considering

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Speaker 1: a profession like of chess. But he also was a

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Speaker 1: noteworthy mountaineer. Um. He was in the party that attempted

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Speaker 1: the first British attempt on K two. Ever it was unsuccessful,

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Speaker 1: but they ended up breaking a record of of living

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Speaker 1: at twenty thousand feet longer than anybody else. Like, he

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Speaker 1: was a serious mountaineer for a very long time. But

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Speaker 1: as he just kind of got a little older, and

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Speaker 1: especially as he got a little further into like magic

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Speaker 1: and sex in particular, he just kind of lost as

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Speaker 1: much interest, like those were his life's passions, and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden he's like, I think I'd rather have

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Speaker 1: sex of every single kind I can possibly think of

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Speaker 1: than than climb a mountain. And he still climbed some mountains,

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Speaker 1: and there were some huge issues that came out of

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Speaker 1: that pursuit and at times, but um, like you said,

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Speaker 1: more than anything, he directed his life towards magic and sex.

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Speaker 1: He says, I think I'd rather climb sexual mountains sexual right, Um, well,

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Speaker 1: should we take a break already? I think we should. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: then you just answered your own question. You begged the

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Speaker 1: question in the best sense of that term. All right,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take a little break here. I'm gonna collect

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Speaker 1: myself and we'll talk more about sex magic right after this.

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Speaker 1: I think before we talk about sex magic, can we

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about his poetry. Sure? Um, he

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Speaker 1: was a writer, and like we said, he wrote up

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Speaker 1: to about fifty books, and some of these were collected

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Speaker 1: and published just from stuff he had written along the

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Speaker 1: way after his death. But he felt like he had

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Speaker 1: a lot to say to the world. Wrote a lot

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Speaker 1: of erotic poetry. The first collection was called White Stains,

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Speaker 1: under the pseudonym Archibald Bishop. I don't have to work

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Speaker 1: too hard to figure out what that means. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's so juvenile, it's hilarious a lot. Did you ever

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Speaker 1: read did you read any of his poetry? No? I

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Speaker 1: mean I saw like clips and snippets of it, and

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Speaker 1: just just from reading so much stuff about how how

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Speaker 1: not great it was, I was like, I'm not reading this.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna read it. In fact, I can't read

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Speaker 1: it on the air because it's a family friendly show.

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Speaker 1: All of them start there once was a man from Nantucket. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there once was a narcissist from Nantucket. But there's a

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Speaker 1: poem I would encourage our readers of age to go

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Speaker 1: look up. And if you're not of age, don't do it.

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Speaker 1: If you're listening with your kid right now, distract him briefly.

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Speaker 1: But it's a poem called Celia Farts c E l

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Speaker 1: I A P H A r T S no no

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Speaker 1: f A r T s uh. And it's just a

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Speaker 1: great example. And I'm sure he had more, you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess legitimate poetry than this. But reading Celia Farts

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Speaker 1: really soured me on what I felt like he thought

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Speaker 1: he had to say to the world. Well, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the thing. I think one of the things is is

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Speaker 1: like it'd be I see what you're saying. It's a

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Speaker 1: little bit um wow. Uh yeah, yeah I did. There's

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Speaker 1: a Pinterest post that has it. It's like the first

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Speaker 1: thing that comes up, so you don't even have to

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Speaker 1: really click in anywhere. But but I think one of

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Speaker 1: the things that's so off putting about him is he's

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Speaker 1: like a Victorian, maybe an Edwardian, a Regency era, but

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Speaker 1: he's like of that era. He's using words like farts

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Speaker 1: and like it just keeps getting worse than that poem,

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Speaker 1: and it's just like so it's just so like crude today,

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Speaker 1: Like if somebody published that stuff today, you'd be like,

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Speaker 1: this is crude and lowbrow. But somebody from the era

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Speaker 1: doing it makes it exponentially worse for some reason. And

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Speaker 1: I think that that is exactly what he was into. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: he certainly loved to push buttons. Uh. He rejected Christianity

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Speaker 1: so forcefully that he decided, not only am I not

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Speaker 1: into it, but I want to be the opposite of it.

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Speaker 1: I think that the only problem with sin are the

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Speaker 1: hang ups that people put on it and that to

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Speaker 1: be truly happy, you should just send sin sin and

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Speaker 1: I'm really good at it. And so that's what I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna do with my life. Yeah, and that this is

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Speaker 1: what he did. And he did um he, like I said,

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Speaker 1: like any basically any sex act you can think of.

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Speaker 1: I did not see any accusations of bestiality, which really

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Speaker 1: surprised me. Did oh you did? Okay? Did did you

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Speaker 1: get the impression that he actually did that, because I

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Speaker 1: again would be surprised if he hadn't you know, met

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Speaker 1: a donkey or two in his time? Saw that I

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Speaker 1: saw And we'll get to this his time when he

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Speaker 1: was living in his slum commune in Italy. Things got

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Speaker 1: really weird there. And of course I don't think we

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Speaker 1: even said why. There's a lot of conflicting information he

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Speaker 1: You can never tell when he was being straight or

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Speaker 1: writing the truth, and you can never tell when someone

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Speaker 1: had when he had made an enemy and they were

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Speaker 1: writing something not true to make him look even worse.

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Speaker 1: It's really hard to parse out the truth. But I

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Speaker 1: did see stuff about uh, not him committing a sexual

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Speaker 1: act with an animal, but forcing a woman uh to

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Speaker 1: with a goat. Okay, And that I mean That's the

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Speaker 1: thing is it is plausible. And the reason why is

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Speaker 1: because he really did have a lot of sways, right,

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Speaker 1: he added a lot. He had enough sway over his acolytes,

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Speaker 1: gearing like his peak that he could have gotten something

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Speaker 1: like that accomplished, if he'd really set his mind to it.

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Speaker 1: It's entirely possible. It did happen. He was into some

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Speaker 1: really freaky stuff, but like you said, you can't really

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Speaker 1: tell what was made up by his enemies. And he

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Speaker 1: had almost nothing but enemies. He had people who just

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Speaker 1: had just met him and were under a spell, and

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Speaker 1: enemies which were people who had known him for longer

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Speaker 1: than a couple of years. That was basically his his world.

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Speaker 1: Like he didn't have friends necessarily, actually not even necessarily.

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Speaker 1: He didn't have friends. He had people who were under

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Speaker 1: a spell or had had just come out from under

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Speaker 1: a spell. Yeah, And that I think that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things too, that really helped to reinforce how I

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Speaker 1: feel about him, is that, um, well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't have old friends, you got to investigate

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Speaker 1: that a little further, I think. But sure things happen

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Speaker 1: in life, but in his case, I think the fact

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Speaker 1: that he was. I think had he given the opportunity,

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Speaker 1: he would have started a massive money making religion allah

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Speaker 1: l Ron Hubbard. But it's seems like he could never

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Speaker 1: attract more than a handful of people at a time.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's for a reason, Yes, personality based reason.

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Speaker 1: I think the proof is in the pudding. He set

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Speaker 1: out to create a huge, massive religion that would change

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Speaker 1: the world. That was his goal, as we see, and

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Speaker 1: just it didn't happen. And he also died um without

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Speaker 1: money even though he had money, despite you know, like

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Speaker 1: actually trying to perform magic rictuals to attract money. So like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he his intent was there. But the thing to me,

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Speaker 1: the thing to me that makes him legit in some way,

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Speaker 1: is that he was still performing rituals, still performing magic

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Speaker 1: um to the end, Like he never gave up on it,

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Speaker 1: even though like it didn't bring him the fame and

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Speaker 1: the fortune and it didn't change the world that he wanted,

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Speaker 1: Like he dedicated, truly dedicated his life to that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he was a charlatan. I do think

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Speaker 1: that he bought into this garbage himself, so you know,

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Speaker 1: he was authentic, definitely. I think that's actually what I

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Speaker 1: was trying to say, So, should we go to Stockholm? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we should go to Stockholm because, um, that

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Speaker 1: is where his one of his first mystical experiences happened,

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Speaker 1: or that's the way he described it at least. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it was am I reading this right and that

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Speaker 1: this mystical experience basically was a result of having homosexual

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Speaker 1: intercourse for the first time. Yeah, gay sex, Okay, good

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Speaker 1: for him. And hey, I want to be clear, I'm

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Speaker 1: not knocking in anyone's kink because he had a lot

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Speaker 1: of them. Not I'm not knocking that at all. What

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Speaker 1: someone does in the bedroom is like, that's fine, and

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Speaker 1: that's great. I support all of that. But I think

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Speaker 1: his self importance of like having to detail and write

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Speaker 1: about it all as a guide book for others. Uh,

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Speaker 1: just it is. It was a real turn off for me. So, um,

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Speaker 1: the reason that he was detailing this stuff and writing

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Speaker 1: a guide book for others using things like sex. Um.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, once he was like, oh, actually

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Speaker 1: I'm bisexual. Like for the rest of his life he um.

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Speaker 1: He had relationships with men and women, and there was

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Speaker 1: one man in particular, Jerome paul It, that he later

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Speaker 1: said he really regretted breaking off his relationship with because

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Speaker 1: paul It wasn't into the occult. But he wrote that, Um,

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Speaker 1: with paul It, he had achieved ideal intimacy, which the

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Speaker 1: Greeks considered the greatest glory of manhood and the most

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Speaker 1: precious prize of life. So that's how he described one

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Speaker 1: of his his relationships with a man. Yeah. Um, and

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Speaker 1: that really says a lot for somebody who didn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: consider himself bisexual. I think he more than anything considered

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Speaker 1: himself straight. He just had, like you know, gay sex

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Speaker 1: from time to time when the when it suited him.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes some of those acolytes, like you said, he

387
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Speaker 1: had no more than a few people around him, sometimes

388
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Speaker 1: it was all men. And if you were an acolyte

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Speaker 1: of his, not only were you helping him perform magic rituals,

390
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Speaker 1: you were helping him perform sex magic too. And um,

391
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: who knows where that was going to go. But very often,

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Speaker 1: more often than not, it was degrading. He used sexual

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Speaker 1: degradation as a way, like a path, like a magic ritual,

394
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 1: but also it was to show power and dominance over

395
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Speaker 1: his acolytes as well. Yeah, and for some reason, and

396
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Speaker 1: again like if you look at the S and M

397
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Speaker 1: community that it didn't feel like that to me, because

398
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Speaker 1: if that's your kink, that's fine too. This felt more

399
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Speaker 1: like a manipulative user of people than any particular sexual kink.

400
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Speaker 1: Or maybe he was born at a time where I

401
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Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, he certainly lived in a time

402
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Speaker 1: where none of this was acceptable. Homosexuality was illegal uh

403
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Speaker 1: in England at the time, So I don't know. I'm

404
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: trying to try to frame it at in the at

405
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: the time and place and try and be a little

406
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 1: bit more understanding what I mean. I from stuff I saw,

407
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 1: and like reports from some of his acolytes, he he

408
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 1: seemed to like truly get pleasure from this stuff. Oh,

409
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,479
Speaker 1: I'm sure he did, so, I don't I don't know

410
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Speaker 1: if it was just like a means to an end,

411
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Speaker 1: like I think he was really immersed in it personally

412
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: as well. I think so. But it seems like every

413
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 1: time he was challenged as not the uh that that

414
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: he was done with someone once he had used them up,

415
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Speaker 1: including his wife, which you know we'll get to in

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00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 1: a minute. But um, just I guess we should quickly

417
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: mention he did have other career paths he could have taken.

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Speaker 1: We mentioned the chess. Uh, he did go to Russia

419
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Speaker 1: to um to learn the business of diplomatic services, which

420
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: is something he chose at Cambridge. But um he none

421
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Speaker 1: of this stuff interested in him. I think once he

422
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Speaker 1: went down the path of the occult and uh, these

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Speaker 1: sexual you know, you know, orgies at times that he

424
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Speaker 1: would get involved in, he was like, this is it

425
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: for me? Yeah, I'm living my best life. I'm out there, Jerry,

426
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: and I'm loving every minute of it. Very nice that

427
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,239
Speaker 1: didn't think of Signfeld references. So um, so he he

428
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: winds up his time at Cambridge and he's basically comes

429
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: out of it like completely devoted to the occult, even

430
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 1: more devoted to sex, figuring out ways to combine those

431
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 1: two things. He's still mountaineering from time to time. He's

432
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: a he considers himself a poet. Um. But he also

433
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: he continued, he was a poet before he read Celia parts.

434
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: But he also one of the other things about him

435
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,959
Speaker 1: I saw it described as he was a magician, and

436
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: he considered himself a genuine magician. And he presented himself

437
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 1: as a genuine magician, not an illusion. It's not a

438
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: stage magician, somebody who actually could could bend reality using

439
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: his will based on rituals and spells and incantations and

440
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: communicating with people from or beings from other other spiritual planes.

441
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: Right magic, right, And he apparently was the one who

442
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: added the K at the end, which was an old,

443
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: old spelling of magic. But he did that to differentiate

444
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: the two, right. But he didn't invent the K, he

445
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: just brought it back. Yeah, he revised From what I saw. Uh,

446
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: he was obsessed with books, not only reading. Uh. He

447
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: had wall to wall books in his apartment. Um. But

448
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,479
Speaker 1: like I said, writing Uh, ed dug up a scholar

449
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: that that suggested he might have what's called grandma mania,

450
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: which is a pathological obsession with writing and to never

451
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: be satisfied and to just keep writing, starting new things

452
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: before you're finished, that kind of thing. So that might

453
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: be possible, right. Um. So one of the other things

454
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: that he was really good at was traveling, like he

455
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: could just go somewhere like he I saw him described

456
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: as like utterly without inhibition, whether it was with sex

457
00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: um or whether it was like, oh let's go see

458
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,719
Speaker 1: how they do things in Burma. Uh. And as when

459
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: he went from place to place, he picked up things

460
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: he would feel he would find like the occult and

461
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: esoteric traditions and religious traditions, even mainstream religious traditions of

462
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: these places, and would figure out how, you know, certain

463
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: parts of them fit in with his own his own

464
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 1: view of the occult and his own practices with magic

465
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: and um. He did that by by just touring the

466
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: world for long periods of time, which is something people

467
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: did back then anyway, right, Like you know, if you

468
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: went to Europe, you stayed there for like two years

469
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: because it took so long to get there and back. Right.

470
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: But he even for his time, he was he was

471
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: a very seasoned traveler. Yeah, And like you said, it's

472
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: really one of the important facts of his life because

473
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: what he would end up doing is creating his own uh.

474
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: I guess, I guess you would call it a religion Salima.

475
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: But Salima was based on all of these travels and

476
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: everything he picked up. He'd There were a couple of

477
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: secret society occult societies he joined along the way, uh

478
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: and then eventually ran a foul love. One was called

479
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn UH and one

480
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: was called the Ordo Temple orientis uh the O T O.

481
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: And it seems like in both of these groups, and

482
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: these were you know, years apart, so it wasn't like,

483
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: I think seven and nine years apart he joined these

484
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: both times. It seemed like he tried to run the

485
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: show when he got involved and rewrite their stuff to

486
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: suit his needs. And what he was doing though, was

487
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: was really trying to create his own jam uh and

488
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: kind of using up these order you know, religious orders

489
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: along the way. Yeah. And um, I saw just a

490
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: little side thing real quick, Chuck. I saw that he

491
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: once had a vampire sicked on him by William Butler Yates,

492
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: the poet. Yeah, they were there were enemies within the

493
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: uh what was it called the first one the Golden

494
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: the Order of the Golden Dawn. Yeah, and like uh,

495
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: Yates considered himself a white witch, and he very clearly

496
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: had decided that, um, that Crowley was a black witch

497
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: or a black magician, I should say. And um so

498
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: for for Yates and the other people in the Golden

499
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: Dawn who were opposed to Crowley, they considered like him

500
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: dangerous and like he couldn't learn some of these these

501
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: mysteries because he would unleash the stuff on humanity and

502
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,959
Speaker 1: basically start a reign of evil here on earth. So

503
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: Yates six sicked the vampire on him for like nine nights,

504
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: all right, he that he just went up a notch

505
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: in my book? Then who Yates? No? Oh really, because

506
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: why do you hate Yates even more than you hate

507
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: Alistair Crowley? No? No, I love Yates, but to have

508
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: to be able to say that, Hey, you know, one

509
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: time WB Yates sick the vampire on for nine days.

510
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: For not days? He just he just earned a little,

511
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: a little point in the Chuck world. I'm glad we

512
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: talked about that. Then, Uh, for a while he lived

513
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: for a pretty long while. He bought this house on

514
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: Lochness called the pronounced the bull Skin House or bulls Skin,

515
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: uh not bull skin. This house became a little more

516
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: famous in the nineteen seventies when Jimmy Page bought it

517
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 1: of led Zeppelin because he was fairly obsessed with Crowley

518
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: for a while, although by all accounts, Page did not

519
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: spend much time there. It was in very bad condition

520
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: and he kind of took one look at it and

521
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: was like, somebody should fix his place up, And he

522
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: assigned a guy to live there and just never really

523
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: went back. But um, he did live there for a while,

524
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: and he owned the house for kind of a long time.

525
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: It was one of it was one of the only

526
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: places he would stay for any length of time. Basically, yeah,

527
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: bull Skin reminds me of Archibald Bishop for some reason.

528
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't sound right like another student then

529
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: would be dr bull Skin right. One of the ways

530
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: that he brought people under his influence, to even people

531
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: who opposed him, was by using his wealth. Um, he

532
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: wasn't above using drugs. He he was surrounded by people

533
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: who were using drugs, and some of them had happened

534
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: upon like habits, habits like heroin or cocaine habits. He

535
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: would he would find people who had you know, power

536
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: or status in some of these orders and would be like, Hey,

537
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: how about I give you some of that heroine you

538
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: crave so much, an unlimited supply. How's that sound? Go

539
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: ahead and initiate me into this inner circle. Um, he would.

540
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: He would use stuff like that. Like you said, he

541
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: was one of the greatest manipulators of his age, for sure,

542
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: But in doing so, what he was doing was he

543
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: wasn't just doing it to get power. His ambition wasn't

544
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: just to become the head of the Golden Dawn or

545
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: the head of the O t O. He wanted to

546
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: learn as many secrets as he could, just like when

547
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: he was traveling in the East, Uh and he was

548
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: picking up you know, yoga um or he was picking

549
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: up mysticism from Egypt. Like he wanted to learn their secrets,

550
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: to figure out the stuff that actually worked. That was

551
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: his goal. That was his ultimate goal. Okay um. So

552
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: I mentioned a wife. In nineteen o three, he married

553
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: Rose Edith Kelly uh and they were really really really

554
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: into each other. She was uh got very into what

555
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: he was into. Uh. They went to Cairo on their

556
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: honeymoon in nineteen o four and by all accounts, it

557
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: was a life changing experience where they were both channeling

558
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: Egyptian gods. And this is where he through channeling Egyptian gods,

559
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: so says him, Um wrote his big sort of bible

560
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: called the Book of the Law, which would become the

561
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: basis for Thalma. Uh. And he says he was, you know,

562
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: like I said, channeling uh a being called I was,

563
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, I was. That's how I heard it

564
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: from everything, okay uh. And so you know this is

565
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,959
Speaker 1: where he has his He's had awakenings before, but this

566
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: is where he came up with his dianetics. Basically, yeah,

567
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: I saw I was continued on like for years and

568
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: years and years. Is basically a guardian angel for him

569
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: and whatever acolytes he had serving him at the time,

570
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: Like they would call on I wast for protection sometimes.

571
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: So he was like a kind of a lifelong guardian

572
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: for um, for Crowley, at least to Crowley and his

573
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: his followers. Yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean he

574
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: talked a lot about guardian angels. UM. He had a

575
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: two daughters, uh, and then towards the end of his

576
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: life had a son who has an interesting story that

577
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: we should probably do a short stuff on um. But

578
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen o five they had Lilith, who was her

579
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: first daughter. She died and I saw different things here.

580
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: She died of typhoid in Burma. But I saw that

581
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,239
Speaker 1: he had basically kind of abandoned his wife at this

582
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: point and she couldn't really care for her herself because

583
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: of her alcoholism, and he blamed her death on her. Uh.

584
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: I don't know how true that is, But they would

585
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: eventually have a second daughter named Lola, Zaza who you

586
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: found one of the greatest pictures of any human of

587
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: all time on the internet. It is so cool, man,

588
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: that kid looks like just a genuinely cool, freaky it girl,

589
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Well, she's wearing a goat,

590
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: so we should just preface that for people who were

591
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: triggered by wearing animal hides. And she's wearing more than

592
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: a hide, it's a hide and a head. Yeah, yeah,

593
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: I think that was a good idea yea. Um. But

594
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: so her sister's name, her full name, sister lilith Um,

595
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: who proceeded her and died as a baby, was nu

596
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: eat ma ah ha thor Hectate Sappho Jezebel Lilith Crowley.

597
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: I'm in hotep. Yeah, just went by Lilith for short, Yes,

598
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: and she had very sadly a very short life. Yeah yeah,

599
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: so I saw that too. That um, even though Crowley

600
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: had abandoned his wife and infant baby in China and

601
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: they were making their way back and she died in Burma,

602
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: that he still blamed He blamed Rose for the baby's death,

603
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: like like fully took zero responsibility for it. And that

604
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: was a frequent um uh, like a common thing that

605
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: happened that he did during his life to like things tragedy,

606
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: sometimes life ending tragedy would would befall people around him

607
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: because of him and his decisions, and he just would

608
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: not accept responsibility for that kind of stuff. Yeah, one

609
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: of the reasons he uh was eventually ostracized from the

610
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: mountaineering community, which um was a pretty small community at

611
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: the time. UH. He reportedly was on a trip with

612
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: some people um got into a fight with them while

613
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: they were on the trip because he wanted to control

614
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: how it went down, and they he splintered off from them.

615
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: There was an avalanche and they were all basically buried

616
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: and like crying for help, And as the story goes,

617
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: he was nearby drinking tea and like didn't do anything

618
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: to help them, and they died. And then the word

619
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: got out and everyone was like, I don't want to

620
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 1: climb with this guy anymore. Yeah. I think he even

621
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: wrote like an article about the expedition in the Daily

622
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: Mail and used it to blame everybody but himself for it.

623
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: That sounds about right, Yeah, I mean he really was

624
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: person at all and actually was a bad person in

625
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. To Yeah, he had um Rose

626
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: institutionalized eventually for alcoholism. Um, I don't know. I didn't

627
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: hear about his son, um, and I don't know what

628
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: his relationship with was with his daughter Lola. Um, they

629
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: just kind of fade out of the story and he

630
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: just kind of continues on, which probably says about everything

631
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: you need to know. Yeah, well, let's do a short

632
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 1: stuff on his son, because it was there was way

633
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: more to this story than I could really comprehend for this,

634
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: But he had a son late late in life who

635
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: eventually was a part of the I think British military

636
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: and tried to overthrow the government, who died in the

637
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: two thousand's. I think he died in two thousand and six.

638
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: So um, this was like way late in his life.

639
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, let's let's maybe follow up on that. So

640
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 1: you want to take another break and then just come

641
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: back and hit a few more high points and then

642
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 1: talk about his his idea of what magic was. Sure, Okay,

643
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: We're going to do that, everybody, And don't worry, we

644
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: will talk about sex magic eventually. Okay, So you said

645
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: that he ended up joining a second group, the O

646
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: t O. Prior to that, he tried his hand at

647
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: founding his own secret occult group. The A A, which

648
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: from pretty much every source I saw stood for astrom

649
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: argentine um, which means silver star, so is the Order

650
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: of the Silver Star. Basically, Yeah, it's A with a

651
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: little symbol than A and a little symbol m um.

652
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: And as as after, the O t O, which was

653
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 1: an established group, approached him because apparently he was publishing

654
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: secrets um of the O t O. But that sued,

655
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: He did get sued, but from from basically all accounts,

656
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: he he really had not exposed their secrets knowingly. He

657
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: had stumbled upon the stuff stuff himself through his own

658
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: rituals and practice, and they they found out that he

659
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: had accidentally done this, that he hadn't he'd figured it

660
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: out himself, and he said, oh, well, you're immediately like

661
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: a high ranking O t O official and we're going

662
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: to initiate you now. Um, because anybody who stumbled on

663
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: their secrets themselves just automatically became a member. And so

664
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: he was very proud of that and happy about that.

665
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: And of course the O t O kind of went

666
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: different ways with him because it was Alistair Crowley after all, um,

667
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: and he started pursuing other stuff too. Yeah, and we

668
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: should point out to that when he was sued by

669
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: his rival from the Golden On for publishing secrets. He

670
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: won that lawsuit, so he he didn't lose it. Um,

671
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, he pursued other things. There's uh this longstanding

672
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: story that he uh tried to and he definitely tried

673
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: to become a spy for Britain during the Wars, but uh,

674
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: he was always rebuffed unless you believe that he really

675
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 1: really was a spy, and he was so on the

676
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: down low that that information never really came out. Um,

677
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 1: but by all accounts, he tried to be a spy

678
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: during the Wars in England. Always said thank you, but

679
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: no thank you. Then he went to work for the

680
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: Germans for a little while. And this is where he

681
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: gets a little confusing. He because he claimed he was

682
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: trying to write as a writer. He was trying to

683
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: write stuff about the Germans. It was so preposterous that

684
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: it would have helped the Allies. But but who knows, Yeah, um,

685
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: who knows. He is kind of up for debate whether

686
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: he was actually a secret agent or not. For sure,

687
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: I don't know. Probably well, I don't know. I guess

688
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: it could be settled that those things are probably those

689
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: documents are still around somewhere if they exist, you know. Um.

690
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: So he after World War Two, Um, he ended up

691
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: going back to England. He remember, he traveled the world.

692
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: He did. He traveled across the Sahara into into Tangier,

693
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 1: I think on foot. He traveled from the Pyrenees down

694
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: to Gibraltar on foot. Um. He did time in Mexico, Japan, India,

695
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: did a lot of mountain climbing. So he did tons

696
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: of traveling. But I guess towards the end of his life,

697
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: as it was winding down a little bit, he he

698
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: wanted to be closer to home. He had a lifelong

699
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: case of bronchitis. UM. So we moved back to England

700
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: and a doctor prescribed him heroin and uh he right,

701
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: He's like, oh yeah, well friends. But I don't know

702
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: if he had successfully kept himself from becoming addicted to

703
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: it before or not, But this time it got its

704
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: hooks in him and he spent the last several years

705
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: of his life addicted to heroin. Like heavily addicted to

706
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: heroin UM and ended up dying I believe in nineteen seven, Yes,

707
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,959
Speaker 1: basically broke in a boarding house yeah, alright, so maybe

708
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: we should talk, uh, finally about sex magic. Finally, sex magic.

709
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: I mean you're going to say that I can't proceeding

710
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:30,879
Speaker 1: that all that proceeding this is all a big part

711
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: of it. But I did mention his stay in Italy. Uh,

712
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: these were three big years in his life. Is when

713
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: he lived at a um ed calls it a small

714
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: estate in Sicily, but it was really a pretty rundown,

715
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: ramshackle farmhouse down the middle of nowhere. Uh. And this

716
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: is what he called his church. This is the Abbey

717
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: of uh Salima. And it was squalid and it was gross,

718
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: and he had h This is where things he did,

719
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: the worst of the worst, even by his standards, when

720
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: it came to these rituals. And this is where animal

721
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: sacrifice may or may not have happened, blood ritual may

722
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 1: or may not have happened. Ingesting all kinds of human

723
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: excrement may or may not happen. Um, it was you know,

724
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: these were the dark days, or I guess, as far

725
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 1: as he's concerned, the best days, right, the salad days. Maybe.

726
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: So sex magic. I don't want to give sex magic

727
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: bad name because a lot of people practice sex magic

728
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of wide variety of sex magic

729
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: and even the stuff A lot of the stuff that

730
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 1: Alistair Crowley, you know, um performed was just kind of like, oh,

731
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: that's it, okay, Um, that's that seems fine. It wasn't

732
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: necessarily degrading or debasing, It didn't necessarily involve sacrifice or

733
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: anything like that. They're frequently multiple people involved. Um. But

734
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,720
Speaker 1: it's like in all of it was in the service

735
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 1: of like entering a higher plane, communicating with other beings

736
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,479
Speaker 1: u um and figuring out, you know, what worked best

737
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: and what what didn't work um. But what sex magic

738
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: and sex magic seems to have been pretty much the

739
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: basis of all of his rituals. Did you get that

740
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: impression to like, pretty much all of the magic he

741
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 1: did was sex magic to some degree or another, right, Yeah,

742
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: And that that's one of the sort of issues I

743
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: have with him, is it seemed like most of it

744
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: revolved around getting people to do sexual acts they wouldn't

745
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:32,439
Speaker 1: have ordinarily done. Um. So again, the purpose of all

746
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: of it, as far as he was saying, was to

747
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: to figure out what else is out there and to

748
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: basically use magic too to to communicate with higher planes

749
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: and to get that knowledge and to basically bring it

750
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: back here on earth to create a more just and

751
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: equitable society under Thalamic law. Right. That was That's what

752
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: his stated point was. That's what his point was. He

753
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 1: wrote very detailed graphic manuals that were very precise about

754
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: every sex act you can think of, Uh, to be

755
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 1: you know, part of his Theleamic religion, and he sort

756
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 1: of believed that he was onto something with magic being

757
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: what he thought was the middle ground between science and religion.

758
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: He thought religion was seemingly thought religion was way too constrictive, uh,

759
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: and kind of got in between people in and attaining

760
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 1: spiritual enlightenment. Uh. He it seemed like he thought science

761
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: was too rigid. I would argue that he probably thought

762
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: science was too caught up in facts and things like that,

763
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: where he wanted to be a little more loosey goosey

764
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: with it. And so he thought he sort of had

765
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: the perfect middle road there with magic with the c K. Yeah,

766
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. He would use experimentation and trial

767
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: and error to figure out the best way, the most

768
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: effective ritual magic. Right. Uh, it seems that you know,

769
00:43:58,400 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 1: and this is one of those deals where ed even

770
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: it's out he was sort of a man of his

771
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: time and his attitudes towards other races. Uh. He did

772
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: express racist and anti Semitic attitudes at times, um, but

773
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: maybe no worse than other people did at the time.

774
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: That doesn't excuse it, obviously, but as far as just

775
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: sort of putting him in a time and place. But

776
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: you know, he also traveled all over the world and

777
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: experience all different types of cultures, and I don't think

778
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: did so with disdain, right. Um. We talked also Chuck

779
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: about um uh Salima and the the law of Salima um,

780
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 1: and there's a very famous like passage from it. Well,

781
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: there's really just kind of three laws for Thalima. But

782
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: the one that that people um cite most frequently and

783
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: is actually, I guess inscribed on the vinyl of led

784
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: Zeppelin's third album, appropriately called led Zeppelin three. Um, it's uh,

785
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: it's do what thou wilt shall be the whole of

786
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 1: the law. Yes, And if there's ever been a string

787
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: of words more right for misinterpretation, it is that one. Yeah.

788
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people say he's basically saying, uh,

789
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: there are no consequences, just do whatever you want and uh,

790
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: which is um. And we should point out he he

791
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: was never a Satanist. He was called that at times,

792
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: and I think when people think of Alistair Crowley, probably

793
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,720
Speaker 1: because of Azzi and Um, people think he was a Satanist,

794
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: but he never was. And he kind of used that

795
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: a little bit to get some attention, but he was

796
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: never into Satanism. Um. But the reason I mentioned that

797
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: is uh to do with that quote, like apparently he

798
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: did not mean it that way, like you can just

799
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: do whatever you want as long as you're making yourself

800
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: happy and uh, go not with God, but go with yourself. Well,

801
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 1: what I saw was that he's saying do without wilt,

802
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: meaning like your purpose in life is the purpose in life,

803
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 1: like figuring out what your purposes and applying your full

804
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 1: self to it. Is Is it that that's the whole

805
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: of the law. That's that's what that that meant to him? Um.

806
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: He also said the law love is the law love

807
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: under will, meaning like to to find love and to

808
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: be a loving person under like. Secondary to the idea

809
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: that figuring out what your purpose in life is um.

810
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: So then loving loving your purpose and learning to love

811
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: by carrying out your purpose. And then um thou hast

812
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 1: no right, but do thy will, which means just you

813
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,959
Speaker 1: really should be doing those first two. Yeah, so um,

814
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: those that that was like the law of Thalima. But

815
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: like like you're saying, like he's frequently considered a Satanist

816
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: even though he never was, and like the people are

817
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: like he didn't have any regard for consequences and he

818
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: kind of didn't. But that's not really what that Thalie

819
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,439
Speaker 1: mc law was saying. So he was very much misinterpreted

820
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: and reinterpreted, um, and that especially started I think he died.

821
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 1: He was very very no notorious while he was alive, um,

822
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: but when he died, not many people showed up. The

823
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: papers covered it. But then that was seven. He just

824
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: kind of, um fell out of public consciousness from what

825
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: I understand, until nineteen sixties seven when he made a

826
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 1: surprise cameo on the cover of Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts

827
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: Club Band album. Yes, the very famous album cover with

828
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: a which was a collage of many many famous people

829
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: and Alistair Crowley was right in there. Apparently John Lennon

830
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: um enjoyed his writings, as did Jimmy Page and Timothy

831
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: Leary and you know his influence was was pretty great

832
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: in what would end up being sort of the the

833
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: hippie uh experimental drug culture of the nineteen sixties. Uh.

834
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,879
Speaker 1: They would invoke Alister Crowley's name here and there for sure. Uh. So,

835
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: you know, for someone who UH would probably not be

836
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: a blip on the radar today, Uh, he had a

837
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: lot of lasting influence and still does. And the apparently

838
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: also the New Age movement that really started to blossom

839
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: in the eighties and has been kind of revived today.

840
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 1: Seventies and eighties, I should say, UH found his roots

841
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: in the fifties, and those people were directly influenced by Crowley.

842
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: Crowley's followers. UM. So he was very much the father

843
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,479
Speaker 1: of the modern New Age movement and all of its

844
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: preoccupation with occultism and mysticism. And you mentioned um the

845
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: you mentioned how had he had he had a chance

846
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: to be like al Ron Hubbard, he would have grabbed it.

847
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: And I agree with you, I think he would have.

848
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: But there's apparently a story that even the scientologists confirmed,

849
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: but they they interpreted it differently, UM, that l Ron

850
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: Hubbard was actually UH an acolyte, a follower of um

851
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: of Alistair Crowley's immediate air. So like who they founded

852
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: the agap A Lodge, and Ron Hubbard was there performing

853
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: magic with another guy, Jack Parsons, who founded the Jet

854
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: Propulsion Lab, who was a big time Crowley acolyte um.

855
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: And the scientologists say l Ron Hubbard was there trying

856
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: to destroy this this church from the inside. But a

857
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: lot of people say no, this is actually where all

858
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: round Hubbard started to get his ideas for scientology, and

859
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: and that's where it grew from, was from Crowley's influence.

860
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: You could draw some parallels, that's for sure. Yeah, one

861
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: or two. So that's it. How do you feel like,

862
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: did you take a bath? Yeah? I'm with you. I

863
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: kind of do too. Um, okay, well we made it

864
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: through Alistair Crowley everybody. And since Chuck said he needs

865
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: to take a bath and I agree, it's time for

866
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: a listener mail. I'm gonna call this repping at the

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00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. This is from Evan

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00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 1: and Kaylee. Evan Weaver from Harrisonburg, Virginia sophomore James Madison

869
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: University and his girlfriend Kaylee Wagner went to the Rock

870
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame and he says this on

871
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: our way there, we re listened to the Rock and

872
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,959
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame podcast to build the anticipation once there,

873
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: and when we finished looking through all the exhibits, we

874
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 1: found ourselves at a station where we could design custom

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00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: band logos and print stickers. Kaylee and I decided to

876
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: make some of these stickers based on our favorite band

877
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: names from the podcast. Awesome uh. They print two copies

878
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: of the sticker, one to take home, another two place

879
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: on the walls of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

880
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: Needless to say, if you ever visit there and find

881
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: stickers with the band names Worm, Burden and Itch Scratch Cycle,

882
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: that's awesome. You know who put them there? Yeah, Evan

883
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: and Kayley. That is huge. We need to get this

884
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: to be a thing that Evan and Kayley started. Every

885
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: visitor needs to do this. Attention stuff you should know listeners,

886
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: including the New Twins. If you ever go to the

887
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, will you follow in

888
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: Evan and Kayley's footsteps for us? It would be awesome. Yeah.

889
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,359
Speaker 1: Our goal is to one day take over the real

890
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: band names. There so many stuff you should know, faith,

891
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 1: that would be wonderful. See, that's a great exhibit that's

892
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:10,919
Speaker 1: way better than you know. Jimmy Pages mailbox from bowl

893
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 1: Skin House behind plexiglass. You know. Oh, I so wish

894
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: that was there. It maybe it maybe that's where I

895
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: got my post. So thanks a lot, Evan and Kaylee,

896
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: not just for the email, but for starting what we

897
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 1: can only hope is a Stuff you Should Know tradition

898
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: to last for years and years and years. Uh. And

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00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: if you want to be like Evan and Kaylee and

900
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: start a new tradition, or even if you just want

901
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: to get in touch and say hi, you can email

902
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 1: us too at stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com.

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00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio.

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00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart

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00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

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00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: favorite shows.