Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Hoard and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth podcast. The Just Move On Up. Addition,
Speaker 1: as I discussed the Bengals offseason moves with Pro Football
Speaker 1: Focus salary cap and free agency expert Brad Spielberger. And
Speaker 1: after talking to Brad, I'll do a three round Bengals
Speaker 1: mock draft, detailing who is still on the board at
Speaker 1: the time and why I made each of my picks.
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Speaker 1: thing since Ballpark Peanuts. I can't go to the movies
Speaker 1: without getting popcorn, and now the baseball season is back.
Speaker 1: I rarely go to the ballpark without getting peanuts. I
Speaker 1: like the whole ritual, cracking them open, gobbling what's inside,
Speaker 1: and tossing the shell under your seat. It's not only
Speaker 1: a tasty snack, but a bag generally lasts for most
Speaker 1: of the game, and they go well with a cold
Speaker 1: beer too. In nineteen oh eight, when Jack Norworth wrote
Speaker 1: the lyrics to take Me out to the ballgame, he
Speaker 1: didn't say buy me some sushi and cracker jack. He
Speaker 1: started with peanuts. Who am I to argue? Now, let's
Speaker 1: get to football. For the past few years, Brad Spielberger
Speaker 1: has been the lead salary cap analyst for Pro Football Focus.
Speaker 1: He's the guy responsible for PFF's free agency Top two
Speaker 1: hundred this year, and he's among the PFF experts who
Speaker 1: publishes mock drafts. In short, he's well versed on just
Speaker 1: about any NFL topic, and he joined me this week
Speaker 1: to discuss the Bengals. Brad, you recently graded every team's
Speaker 1: free agent class. You gave the Bengals a B plus,
Speaker 1: and you don't dole out a's easily. Houston was the
Speaker 1: only team in the AFC that was worthy of an
Speaker 1: A in your opinion. What were the biggest reasons why
Speaker 1: you thought the Bengals class is worthy of a B plus.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the way I approach it too, is
Speaker 2: trying to look back historically and not fall in love
Speaker 2: with which teams made the biggest splashes, because that's not
Speaker 2: really how you win free agency, right, we know that
Speaker 2: over the course of history. So look, the Bengals did
Speaker 2: lose some important players. I think DJ Reader has been
Speaker 2: an awesome Bengal but obviously has missed time over his
Speaker 2: Cincinnati tenure. And I was very high in Sheldon Rankins
Speaker 2: watching his tape last year. A very good pass rusher
Speaker 2: on the interior, I think one of the most important
Speaker 2: positions the Bengals needed to address in free agency, and
Speaker 2: then a couple other spots as well, getting you know,
Speaker 2: a true deep third free safety a ball hawk did
Speaker 2: a ton of interceptions last year for the Baltimore Ravens
Speaker 2: like that. That was an important addition to this defense
Speaker 2: where you know, they've been great under Luannarumo, but last
Speaker 2: season they were I want to say, second worst in
Speaker 2: the NFL and explosive pass play rate allowed. So I
Speaker 2: don't think I said Geno Stone's name. So Geno Stone,
Speaker 2: you know, look, he's not gonna be the greatest run
Speaker 2: defender in the world. But put him back there, have
Speaker 2: the versatility of a Jordan Battle of dax Hill these
Speaker 2: young corners, and let him sit back there. The pass
Speaker 2: rush gets home, he will flip the field, turn the
Speaker 2: ball over for you. So you know, on that side
Speaker 2: of the line or that's howe the team. I loved it.
Speaker 2: And then you know, Trent Brown look gonna miss some
Speaker 2: time part of the equation there, but when he's healthy,
Speaker 2: he is still one of the better pass protecting tackles
Speaker 2: in the entire NFL, arguably the best pass protecting tackle
Speaker 2: besides Tyron Smith in the entire phraging class.
Speaker 1: Was there something or someone that would have elevated the
Speaker 1: Bengals grade to an A.
Speaker 2: It's a good question. Probably not, you know. I think
Speaker 2: just some of the losses were tough, you know, so,
Speaker 2: and that happens. It's part of being a good football
Speaker 2: team and making these big decisions and having to navigate
Speaker 2: the t Higgins and Jesse Bates of the world. You know,
Speaker 2: maybe more at tight end potentially, and they did make
Speaker 2: a little move for Mike Kasicki, who I think isn't
Speaker 2: very interesting component, even if it's just on third downs
Speaker 2: in red zone and he's not going to offer much
Speaker 2: as a blocker. You still just get a big body
Speaker 2: target that, especially if Higgins is elsewhere, you know, in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four or later. I'm not saying he's a T.
Speaker 2: Higgins replacement, but in those specific areas he is good.
Speaker 2: You know, didn't get a ton of usage with the Patriots,
Speaker 2: but I think they'll be more creative in a heavy
Speaker 2: eleven personnel offense in Cincinnati to just get him out
Speaker 2: there in obvious passing situations. His catch radius is ginormous.
Speaker 2: I think guy has the longest arms maybe at the position.
Speaker 2: So no, I think it was just tough for where
Speaker 2: they were at to make a bunch of moves to
Speaker 2: kind of counterbalance some of the big losses they did have.
Speaker 1: The Bengals tight ends during the Joe Burrow a have
Speaker 1: been c j Uzama, Hayden Hurst, dru Sample and Tanner Hudson.
Speaker 1: Who emerged this past season is Mikeasicki the best receiving
Speaker 1: threat at tight end that Joe Burrows had.
Speaker 2: It's a fair question, you know, and I think also
Speaker 2: just real quick it speaks to you know, you have
Speaker 2: to make those tough decisions not paying Uzama, who I
Speaker 2: know was a Bengals favorite, and you know he is
Speaker 2: a good player, but goes to the Jets and obviously
Speaker 2: got cut this past season. I want to say still
Speaker 2: is not a roster and that tough decision they made
Speaker 2: to save that money and not keep that player. It
Speaker 2: has aged well, so as a pure pass catcher, maybe yeah,
Speaker 2: he really could be. You know, Hurst was a good
Speaker 2: all round player and certainly wasn't a bad pass catcher,
Speaker 2: but more of a kind of underneath checkdown outlet that
Speaker 2: can pick up some yards after the catch. Kasiki can
Speaker 2: be like a vertical threat out of the slot.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: He calls himself a big slot receiver, you know, and
Speaker 2: he is, so yeah, you could probably make that argument.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Zach Moss. He got a two year,
Speaker 1: eight million dollar deal, He's twenty six years old for
Speaker 1: the Bengals. Are is he a better fit than Joe Mixon?
Speaker 2: I think the beauty here is that his skill set
Speaker 2: compliments Chase Brown so well. And we saw the last
Speaker 2: what six weeks of last season where you're starting to
Speaker 2: see more usage for Chase Brown. Was that the Jaguars
Speaker 2: game where he had a bunch of catches and a
Speaker 2: bunch of yards, and so Moss is your your early
Speaker 2: down you know, between the tackles runner he can get
Speaker 2: to the edge and obviously had a lot of great
Speaker 2: games for the Colts. So I think that's the big thing,
Speaker 2: is you save some money, and you also you'll use guys.
Speaker 2: You'll use both more right, Mixon is a three down player.
Speaker 2: That's who he is. He wants the volume, he wants
Speaker 2: to touches, he wants to be out there, and he
Speaker 2: has that skill set. So I like how they navigated that.
Speaker 2: You get a trade for a player you probably were
Speaker 2: going to cut, you know, Mixing is a good player,
Speaker 2: and honestly, I think it got to a point where
Speaker 2: maybe the narrative of going too far and like, oh
Speaker 2: they got to make make him take a pay cut. Again,
Speaker 2: I don't think his earnings were that bad, but obviously,
Speaker 2: or you know, his pending earnings were that bad. But
Speaker 2: obviously he wanted a new contract and he got that elsewhere.
Speaker 2: So I like how they navigated it. Overall.
Speaker 1: Is there anybody out there still that makes sense for
Speaker 1: the Bengals.
Speaker 2: It's an interesting thought. I mean, I guess you could
Speaker 2: continue to add me some depth on the interior of
Speaker 2: the offensive line. There are some players out there. I mean,
Speaker 2: Dalton Risner is a starter in this league. I don't
Speaker 2: really know why he's not on a roster at this point.
Speaker 2: And Cordella Olsen, you know, I know, he got there
Speaker 2: with the second most extra money performance based pay from
Speaker 2: the pool, and I think he's shown growth. I think
Speaker 2: he has gotten better over his time in Cincinnati. But look,
Speaker 2: Risner would be an upgrade. There's no doubt about that
Speaker 2: in my mind, and so he's probably not signing a
Speaker 2: backup deal, although you know, eventually the game musical chairs
Speaker 2: runs out for you in this league in free agency,
Speaker 2: so maybe that's one spot you could look into a
Speaker 2: little bit, prepare for the future a bit if you
Speaker 2: want to, and then beyond that, not really, I mean,
Speaker 2: they're gonna trust these young corners. Maybe a veteran corner
Speaker 2: There are a bunch of those names out there, but
Speaker 2: I think at this point there are more names than
Speaker 2: than high level talents. You know, once once you've hit April,
Speaker 2: that's kind of how it goes.
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you about one of those cornerbacks
Speaker 1: in particular, Xavier Howard from the Dolphins, four time Pro
Speaker 1: Bowler when he was younger. Obviously there's a lot of
Speaker 1: tread that's worn off those tires, but he played for
Speaker 1: lou Anarumo early in his career with Miami. He recently
Speaker 1: said I already got paid. I want to win a
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, which is music to any team's ears when
Speaker 1: it comes to free agency. Is there anything left in
Speaker 1: the tank with Xavier and Howard?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really think there is. Howard's a guy that
Speaker 2: has been playing a lot of man coverage in Miami.
Speaker 2: Brian Flores obviously way up there in the league over
Speaker 2: his tenure with the Dolphins. You know, Vic Fango not
Speaker 2: quite the same, but he's a guy that played up
Speaker 2: in press coverage, was battling number one receivers and he
Speaker 2: did it at a high level for a very very
Speaker 2: long time. And we've seen some of the corners as
Speaker 2: they age, they go to systems that play more zone,
Speaker 2: protect them a little bit more, don't ask them to
Speaker 2: take on a one on one assignments against the premier
Speaker 2: players at wide receiver. And obviously there's one hundred new
Speaker 2: ones every year, looks like, but you know, go to
Speaker 2: an Anarrumo defense that's more zone based that has the
Speaker 2: good pass rush and then lets those guys sit back
Speaker 2: kind of close, come forward a little bit more as
Speaker 2: opposed the trail technique and chasing these dudes around. So
Speaker 2: I do I think Zavin Howard could still have a
Speaker 2: couple more good years in his tank, all right.
Speaker 1: You also graded the other teams in the AFC North.
Speaker 1: In addition to the Bengals getting a B plush, he
Speaker 1: gave the Steelers a B plush. He gave the Ravens
Speaker 1: and Browns bees. So everybody seemed to do okay. Which
Speaker 1: teams do you think got better? Which teams may have
Speaker 1: gotten worse?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think, you know, and the Bengals probably neutral.
Speaker 2: I'd say the Ravens are going to get a little
Speaker 2: bit worse. They can replace it, They've done it time
Speaker 2: and time again. But I mean, Jadevian Clowney had a
Speaker 2: career year last season. He was phenomenal for them. His
Speaker 2: most pressures I want to say maybe most or second
Speaker 2: most pressures he's ever had in a season for US
Speaker 2: at PFF. The top three sacks season for him as well,
Speaker 2: and he's always been a very very good run defender
Speaker 2: on the edge. So him and Kyle van Noy, who
Speaker 2: was an important role player for them too. We just
Speaker 2: talked about Geno Stone, Patrick Queen. Yes, they trade for
Speaker 2: Roquan Smith and he's an all worldline but Patrick Queen's
Speaker 2: maybe the best blitzing linebacker in the NFL. Now. I know,
Speaker 2: we'll get to him the Steelers in a second, but
Speaker 2: they lost some important pieces there and then the offensive line.
Speaker 2: You trade Morgan Moses, you get a pick cup from
Speaker 2: Ronnie Stanley, which reflects that he was rotating some serieses
Speaker 2: in Baltimore. Unfortunately, that ACL tear I think has slowed
Speaker 2: him down a bit. So they got worse. Kevin Zeitler,
Speaker 2: the left guard goes to a right guard, goes to
Speaker 2: Detroit Lions. They're still a good organization. They'll they'll find
Speaker 2: their way through, but they did get worse. In my opinion.
Speaker 2: The Browns I think kind of got better. You know,
Speaker 2: they got to actually show up and have the results.
Speaker 2: I'm sure AFC North fans are sick of hearing about
Speaker 2: the Browns winning in March. But you know, I think
Speaker 2: Jerry Judy is still a talented player that can produce.
Speaker 2: We tether do his draft stock and yeah, maybe he's
Speaker 2: not a top fifteen pick talent, but he's a seven hundred,
Speaker 2: eight hundred yard guy that can still separate a very
Speaker 2: high level and is a good football player. And they
Speaker 2: made a couple other small moves as well. I like
Speaker 2: adding some linebacker help some veterans there is always key
Speaker 2: for them. They didn't have a lot of talent there
Speaker 2: last years.
Speaker 1: The Steelers editions of Russell Wilson and Justin Fields. How
Speaker 1: much does that elevate Pittsburgh if at all?
Speaker 2: So it is an upgrader what they had last year.
Speaker 2: Like those guys are better than Kenny Pikett, Mitch Trubisky
Speaker 2: and Mason Rudolph. They are. But the thing for me
Speaker 2: that I'm curious how it goes is just kind of
Speaker 2: the oil and water nature of what Arthur Smith wants
Speaker 2: to do, which is get the ball up quickly, attack
Speaker 2: the middle of the field. I mean those quarterbacks do that. Frankly,
Speaker 2: I think Justin Fields might actually benefit from, Hey, let's
Speaker 2: just start over, clean the slate, change your footwork, tie
Speaker 2: your play to under center play action. It's not what
Speaker 2: he's ever done, but I think he does kind of
Speaker 2: just need a hard reset. So the talent is better
Speaker 2: in a vacuum, they are better quarterbacks. How they work
Speaker 2: with the offensive coordinator that I think is kind of
Speaker 2: a mystery.
Speaker 1: Rad Spielberger from Pro Football Focus is our guest. All
Speaker 1: indications are the T Higgins will be back in Cincinnati
Speaker 1: for at least more year. On the franchise tag figure
Speaker 1: of twenty one point eight mil. We all assume that
Speaker 1: ultimately they're going to pay Jamar Chase whatever it takes
Speaker 1: more than thirty million dollars a year when it comes
Speaker 1: time for his second contract. With that in mind, you're
Speaker 1: a salary cap expert, what could they pay T Higgins
Speaker 1: if they were really determined to keep them?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think at this point the floor is like
Speaker 2: the Michael Pittman contract. I think that's probably the biggest.
Speaker 2: You know, everyone talks about overall value, average per year,
Speaker 2: all those things. The receiver trend recently where all these
Speaker 2: deals are now three year extensions. I have to imagine
Speaker 2: the Bengals are balking at that as much as any
Speaker 2: other element of this contract. And you can't really push
Speaker 2: back on these league wide trends. Everyone's doing it. Pittman's
Speaker 2: represented by the same agency as T Higgins, So but yeah,
Speaker 2: so right in that range of twenty four twenty five
Speaker 2: million dollars a year. And I just wonder if they
Speaker 2: think it's worth it to do on a three year
Speaker 2: deal if they can't get that fourth year of control,
Speaker 2: that's that's the number, that's the floor if anything. And
Speaker 2: I'm I'm with you. I think he plays twenty twenty
Speaker 2: four in Cincinnati, but probably just on that tag.
Speaker 1: He's not thrilled with a tag. No player ever seems
Speaker 1: to be thrilled with the tag. They have the ability
Speaker 1: to tag them again conceivably. Now he obviously would not
Speaker 1: react well to that happening. But that would be for
Speaker 1: about twenty six million dollars, so two years at forty
Speaker 1: seven million dollars whatever it would be total. Does that
Speaker 1: make sense?
Speaker 2: The interesting thing is it never looks great and you
Speaker 2: want to get the extra years of control because of
Speaker 2: course in theory it works out and then you have
Speaker 2: more flexibility and you have kind of more leverage as
Speaker 2: the team side. But like those numbers are what all
Speaker 2: those guys that have talked about, you know, DK Metcalf, Deebo,
Speaker 2: Samuel Terry McLaurin, Michael Pittman, they're all going to make
Speaker 2: that amount over the first two years of their deal,
Speaker 2: and as we also know in the NFL, playing through
Speaker 2: the end of a contract isn't all that common now.
Speaker 2: Of course, for a three year deal, it's more likely
Speaker 2: than a four or five year extension. So I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say it's crazy. It's certainly not going to go over well.
Speaker 2: You know, we know that for sure, and you know
Speaker 2: the Baits corollary also same agent. Obviously they didn't go
Speaker 2: the second tag route there. It's interesting because Higgins is
Speaker 2: coming off, you know, probably his worst season, and let's
Speaker 2: say he goes crazy and pounces back and stays healthy
Speaker 2: the whole season. Joe Burrow says, healthy the whole season.
Speaker 2: He has better protection now and they have a great year,
Speaker 2: and he in particular has a great year. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be surprised if they tag him again, especially because in
Speaker 2: this market, Yeah, there's gonna be I think there's gonna
Speaker 2: be three guys making thirty plus mil this offseason in
Speaker 2: a new player. So the market's going to continue to
Speaker 2: go crazy.
Speaker 1: So Tyler Boyd is still out there. There reports out
Speaker 1: there today suggesting that a deal with the Pittsburgh Steelers
Speaker 1: homecoming for Tyler is not likely. Should the Bengals consider
Speaker 1: bringing him back.
Speaker 2: The price point at this point is probably pretty low.
Speaker 2: You know, I thought last season when I watched his
Speaker 2: tape for the free agent work that I do, I
Speaker 2: was sitting there saying, like, is this guy playing through something?
Speaker 2: Is he hurt because he looked so much less explosive
Speaker 2: and elusive than he has in years past, or like,
Speaker 2: when it's to that extreme in that level, I know
Speaker 2: he's been aging, he's played a lot of football, he's
Speaker 2: taking place. It hits, sure, but when it's that drastic
Speaker 2: for me, I almost like have to ask that question.
Speaker 2: I know we haven't heard anything, but obviously we know
Speaker 2: guys are playing through stuff all the time. So if
Speaker 2: it's now like, you know, four or five million dollars
Speaker 2: because I have it at eight and that's gonna be
Speaker 2: too high, then yeah, I mean, I don't see why not.
Speaker 2: He's been been in Cincinnati forever, obviously loves Joe Burrow
Speaker 2: and vice versa, the receiver room. They're obviously super close.
Speaker 2: If he circles back around, he's open to taking a
Speaker 2: deal that is way cheaper than probably even they expected
Speaker 2: coming into this offseason. I don't see why he closed
Speaker 2: the door.
Speaker 1: All right, let's turn to the draft. He came out
Speaker 1: with a mock draft about a week ago. You have
Speaker 1: the Bengals selecting the people's choice Georgia tight end Rock Bowers.
Speaker 1: What's the likelihood that he's there at eighteen.
Speaker 2: I think it's higher than people might expect. I do.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's gonna be a top ten pick.
Speaker 2: I know everyone loves mocking into the Jets, and maybe
Speaker 2: the Jets now that they've added Mike Williams at receiver
Speaker 2: and they've added both starting tackles and you know, Moses
Speaker 2: and Tyron Smith, like, maybe they do just take that swim.
Speaker 2: It's kind of a pick they didn't expect to have.
Speaker 2: They obviously were hoping to be sending the Packers, you know,
Speaker 2: the sixty fourth overall pick, and instead they send, you know,
Speaker 2: or I guess you should say, the thirty second overall pick
Speaker 2: and instead because the whole Rodgers condition all that they
Speaker 2: get to keep their own first and it's a top
Speaker 2: ten pick. So I just I don't know if I
Speaker 2: see it though, because it's not actually a short term move.
Speaker 2: I mean, tight ends, even the great ones they get
Speaker 2: taken super early. They generally take a year or two
Speaker 2: to get going. Like, let's not get Samuel Porta, you know, confused,
Speaker 2: that's not the norm. Mean TJ. Howkinson is kind of
Speaker 2: the most recent. I guess Kyle Pitts had a thousand
Speaker 2: year od rookie season. But anyway, I think the thing
Speaker 2: is after that eleven through fifteen, I don't really see it.
Speaker 2: I see them mock to the Colts a bunch. I
Speaker 2: don't really know why they have a bunch of tight
Speaker 2: ends on their roster. None of them are Brock Powers.
Speaker 2: But anyway, long answer short, I think it's more feasible
Speaker 2: than some people realize. That Maybe they're on the clock
Speaker 2: at eighteen and Bowers is still available, so.
Speaker 1: You have six offensive tackles going before the Bengals go
Speaker 1: select at number eighteen. If say the third best tackle
Speaker 1: or fourth best tackle we're still on the board, would
Speaker 1: you choose that guy over Brock Bowers, Or if Brock
Speaker 1: Bowers is there, should the Bengals pounce.
Speaker 2: I'd probably go to tackle in that scenario. For me,
Speaker 2: the third or fourth guy you're talking about, like Troy
Speaker 2: u Fatanu at a Washington, maybe JC Latham at Alabama.
Speaker 2: They're all ranked differently and fit each scheme differently. But
Speaker 2: you know Tyren Smith is a temporar. Uh, It's not
Speaker 2: Tyrn Smith Brown. Trent Brown is a temporary solution and
Speaker 2: again a guy that you really can't expect to play
Speaker 2: a thousand snaps in a season. And then even if
Speaker 2: he does, you can again and one of these guys
Speaker 2: could be rotating in at guard or maybe even overtaking
Speaker 2: the left guard spot, like Troy Fatan, who I think
Speaker 2: probably comes in just starts at left guard, and you
Speaker 2: make volsin your interior swing guy out of the gate.
Speaker 2: So if those guys are available, I do it. I
Speaker 2: think it's more a question of like if a Marius Mims,
Speaker 2: who's super talented but has played like eight hundred college
Speaker 2: snaps his entire career, Like, if those guys are there,
Speaker 2: it becomes more of a tough question. Or you know,
Speaker 2: the interior defensive lineman as well.
Speaker 1: So let's say Powers is gone and tackle six, seven, eight,
Speaker 1: whatever number you know you want to guess at, is
Speaker 1: still available at number eighteen. Do you think that's more
Speaker 1: likely than a defensive tackle, which is obviously still an
Speaker 1: area of need.
Speaker 2: See that's where it gets intering to me is that
Speaker 2: I think the drop off from the top two guys
Speaker 2: you know, in Byron Murphy at Texas and Johnny Newton
Speaker 2: Gerson Newton at Illinois is pretty steep to the next players.
Speaker 2: There's some guys I like, but I'm not sure I
Speaker 2: would take any in the second round. They'll go in
Speaker 2: the second round, but I think it's really a pretty
Speaker 2: steep drop off. And so if the Bengals look at
Speaker 2: it from that perspective and just say we can get
Speaker 2: a talent that is well above the next tier of
Speaker 2: players at this position, I'd probably go that round. I
Speaker 2: think Byron Murphy's a special talent. I think he is
Speaker 2: an incredibly shifty, bursty, quick interior defensive lineman. Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: a little bit undersized, but look in today's NFL, they're
Speaker 2: all under side. We probably stop saying that the league
Speaker 2: is different. And he's also he's still a good run
Speaker 2: defender for his size, Like it's not an issue. It's
Speaker 2: such a strong base and anchor that he doesn't get
Speaker 2: blown off the ball against the run. And then Johnny
Speaker 2: Newton too, love him. I probably haven't marked a little
Speaker 2: bit below, but go watch the the Wisconsin tape or
Speaker 2: the Penn State tape of Johnny Newton. He's the best
Speaker 2: player in the football field. I mean, he is undoubtedly
Speaker 2: the best player on the field in both of those games.
Speaker 2: And Penn State's gonna have multiple first round picks, so
Speaker 2: I personally probably go that route.
Speaker 1: So I think in your mock draft you had alt Waga,
Speaker 1: Batanu Latham as the top four. If those guys are
Speaker 1: gone and your next two were Fashu and Barton, do
Speaker 1: you go Murphy and Newton over those guys.
Speaker 2: I go Fashu at that point. I like Barton a lot.
Speaker 2: But to me, and it's I guess, I don't know
Speaker 2: my opinion is relevant. Everyone in the NFL is telling
Speaker 2: us he's a guard center, so I'll take their word
Speaker 2: for it, you know. And he's a good player, great player.
Speaker 2: I think he's gonna go earlier than a lot of
Speaker 2: people expect. But fash to me, is fascinating where I mean,
Speaker 2: there are people saying last year or if you think
Speaker 2: he wasn't eligible to declare, but if he did declare,
Speaker 2: he would have been the first tackle taking was like
Speaker 2: the consensus opinion. He had some rough outings, No question
Speaker 2: the Ohio State game for him was not a good game.
Speaker 2: But he is probably still the cleanest path protector in
Speaker 2: this class at tackle, and he's a clear left tackle,
Speaker 2: has great footwork, can handle it, can absorb power for
Speaker 2: the most part. That was not on display against Ohio State.
Speaker 2: So I would still take him. I would say, you
Speaker 2: know what, he's fallen too far. He could have been
Speaker 2: a top ten to seven pick last year as a
Speaker 2: twenty year old. Now he's twenty one, he's gonna fall
Speaker 2: to US eighteen. I probably take it. But if it
Speaker 2: becomes the Bartons and the other, you know, the other
Speaker 2: kind of flex inside outside guys, then I would go detackle.
Speaker 1: So you still had Mims Geiden and Sue Matia Matia
Speaker 1: from BYU going in the first round. So it seem
Speaker 1: like you concur with the many people who seem to
Speaker 1: think this is a historically good offensive tackle draft.
Speaker 2: I really do. I really do like Mims. The talent
Speaker 2: is insane. Like you watch some of the games, he's
Speaker 2: clearly just the best athlete on the field, and like
Speaker 2: his technique is even super sound, but it doesn't really matter,
Speaker 2: and some of the best players get away with that,
Speaker 2: and obviously you want to refine that and get better there,
Speaker 2: but you do have question marks, but not only missing
Speaker 2: time during the seasons. You then go to the combine.
Speaker 2: He pulls up lame after I want to say a
Speaker 2: forty and doesn't finish the combine that day. I don't
Speaker 2: think anything's been a severe injury, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's had like a ligament tear. But
Speaker 2: you do want to see, you know, availability is the
Speaker 2: best ability and all those things, especially at offensive line,
Speaker 2: you need to be a durable player. So the talent
Speaker 2: is truly undeniable. He looks like his build, he's a
Speaker 2: freak like he's six foot eight and there's not a
Speaker 2: bad pound of weight on his body. And there are
Speaker 2: some games where you're like chuckling as you watch him play.
Speaker 2: But it's certainly scary there to me guidance a total project.
Speaker 2: My mocks are not my opinion. They're what I'm hearing
Speaker 2: and what I'm seeing elsewhere from people I respect and trust.
Speaker 2: I get why people like the tools. I don't think
Speaker 2: he's a guy you want to start really out of
Speaker 2: the gate. And then so I'm Tella, I think is
Speaker 2: a guy that I am way high. He's probably not
Speaker 2: going to the first round. But I just love him.
Speaker 2: Smooth mover for his size byu tackles a little bit
Speaker 2: scary though too. It's a system that protects their offensive line.
Speaker 2: They don't play a lot of great pass rushers in
Speaker 2: the Mountain West, and you know, they've had some guys
Speaker 2: come out and not really be as good as they
Speaker 2: were in college. But but he's awesome to me.
Speaker 1: The Bengals had ten picks, including two third round picks.
Speaker 1: Should they be wheeling and dealing and try to move
Speaker 1: up in this draft, they.
Speaker 2: Are one of the teams that Stan pat more than
Speaker 2: anybody else. They rarely ever moved up or down. They
Speaker 2: rarely move. But I don't know. I mean, maybe if
Speaker 2: a guy that you think is just like can't miss
Speaker 2: one hundred and ten percent at either tackle or detackle,
Speaker 2: and I guess maybe Bowers. But I probably would move
Speaker 2: up for Bowers personally. But yeah, let's say if it's
Speaker 2: a small move up. For example, the Steelers trade last
Speaker 2: year is probably the perfect analogy, right, They were from
Speaker 2: seventeen to fourteen to get Broderick Jones. They also viewed
Speaker 2: the you know, the tackle drop off from your Darnell
Speaker 2: Wrights and those guys and Broderick Jones down to the
Speaker 2: next tier, you know, not as a pretty steep drop,
Speaker 2: and I would I agree with him. Last year, that
Speaker 2: wasn't that expensive a trade. I want to say they
Speaker 2: give a third to the Patriots for that move up.
Speaker 2: It may have been a fourth if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2: So I would do that. I'm not trying to catapult
Speaker 2: in like the top ten or anything like that, but yeah,
Speaker 2: you have the ability to maybe be a little bit
Speaker 2: aggressive because you have ten total picks and he probably
Speaker 2: don't have ten roster spots you know, available right now.
Speaker 1: What other tight ends do you like other than Brock Bowers.
Speaker 2: You know, the one I would say is probably Ben
Speaker 2: Sonata Kansas State. Who is is? He set himself at
Speaker 2: the Senior Bowl the most versatile tight end in the class.
Speaker 2: I would agree with him. He can be an h
Speaker 2: back in the backfield, it can be a legit just
Speaker 2: true fullback, can play in line, he lined up out wide,
Speaker 2: sometimes in the slot. He's a fun, versatile weapon that
Speaker 2: you can move all over the formation do different things with.
Speaker 2: But I still probably wouldn't take one of the first
Speaker 2: two rounds. And then you know THEO Johnson a Penn State.
Speaker 2: I think you didn't see a lot of him because
Speaker 2: it's not a pass heavy offense. But his testing was insane,
Speaker 2: and maybe he's a guy who's a developmental player. We
Speaker 2: don't hear about him for two years and then he
Speaker 2: kind of is that classic like third year breakout tight end.
Speaker 2: But yeah, outside of brock Bowers, I'm probably not using
Speaker 2: a Day two pick on any ted end in his class.
Speaker 1: A couple more questions for Brad Spielberger from Pro Football Focus.
Speaker 1: You did a story recently where you talked about a
Speaker 1: team's best move in free agency or the movie you
Speaker 1: like the most, and then the move that you liked
Speaker 1: the least, and where the Bengals were concerned. You didn't
Speaker 1: really criticize any of their moves, and you had a
Speaker 1: sentence that kind of implied that that's generally how you
Speaker 1: think the Bengals do in free agency. Is this a
Speaker 1: team that you feel consistently does a good job in
Speaker 1: that area.
Speaker 2: At least in recent history, Right the last four or
Speaker 2: five years, I think they've been great in that regard.
Speaker 2: We'll be talking to j reader Trey Hendrickson, probably one
Speaker 2: of the better free agent signings of the for any
Speaker 2: team in the NFL the last five years. You know,
Speaker 2: like you know, Nick Scott didn't totally work out, but
Speaker 2: it's obviously a you know, one year ended up being
Speaker 2: like four million dollars, not a huge deal. So they
Speaker 2: don't take those swings all the time. When they do,
Speaker 2: they've hit a lot recently. Obviously, Shelby Woozier was a
Speaker 2: great istion Mike Hilton's been a phenomenal player still is
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, They've been really really good how they
Speaker 2: navigate free agency the last couple of years, balancing kind
Speaker 2: of the short term needs with the young, foundational draft
Speaker 2: pick core they have. They've been great.
Speaker 1: All right, final question for you. I reached out to
Speaker 1: see if you were available for this podcast. You said yes,
Speaker 1: and then shortly after that you shared the news on
Speaker 1: social media that you are leaving Pro Football Focus. What
Speaker 1: is next?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so glad we can squeeze this in. I
Speaker 2: will not be doing a whole lot of media going forward.
Speaker 2: I'm going to work at an agency to be a
Speaker 2: contract negotiator called Grand Central Sports Management, So I'll be
Speaker 2: negotiating the deals for all of our clients in the
Speaker 2: NFL at least and I'm very excited for it. I
Speaker 2: appreciate the question and looking forward to finally, you know,
Speaker 2: getting directly involved and entering the arena, so to speak.
Speaker 1: Is this something that you've always had a desire to
Speaker 1: do or did it just kind of fall into your lap?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think I always knew that I
Speaker 2: wanted to be directly involved in some capacity. Obviously I
Speaker 2: do all the contract projections and so much work in
Speaker 2: that space at PFF, and you know, being able to
Speaker 2: actually apply that to the real world and also just
Speaker 2: kind of you know, use my latter you a little
Speaker 2: bit more for my parents are happy, I'll actually be
Speaker 2: you know, using that a little bit more, and you know,
Speaker 2: reading the fine print of language and truly you know,
Speaker 2: putting those skills to work. Yeah, it's something I've always
Speaker 2: wanted to do. I wasn't trying to leave PFF, but
Speaker 2: but the opportunity has been phenomenal or is phenomenal, and
Speaker 2: I just couldn't say no.
Speaker 1: Well, you will be missed at PFF. Your salary cap
Speaker 1: analysis and free agent rankings have always been very valuable
Speaker 1: to those of us who love reading about the NFL,
Speaker 1: So thank you for your hard work and best of
Speaker 1: luck and you're a new endeavor going forward.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: More on the draft in a moment, but first, here's
Speaker 1: a quick reminder that the Bengals Booth podcast is brought
Speaker 1: to you by pay Corps, Proud to be the Bengals
Speaker 1: official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof Fiber
Speaker 1: Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community to
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Speaker 1: for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare
Speaker 1: provider of the Bengals. This year, the Bengals have ten
Speaker 1: draft picks, two in the top fifty and four in
Speaker 1: the top one hundred. Since they have an extra pick
Speaker 1: in the third round, I thought it would be fun
Speaker 1: to get on a mock draft simulator this week and
Speaker 1: take a stab at those first four picks, sharing my
Speaker 1: options at the time, and then the rationale for each
Speaker 1: of my selections. We start in round one with the
Speaker 1: eighteenth overall pick going in. I'm on the lookout for
Speaker 1: offensive tackles, defensive tackles, and tight end brock Bowers, although
Speaker 1: there are wide receivers, cornerbacks, and edge rushers that I
Speaker 1: would consider if they somehow fell to number eighteen. When
Speaker 1: I started the simulator, four quarterbacks went in the top
Speaker 1: six picks.
Speaker 2: Hooray.
Speaker 1: Since the Bengals aren't the market for a QB, that
Speaker 1: means I'm going to get one of my top fourteen players.
Speaker 1: Four tackles were off the board before I selected Joe
Speaker 1: Alt from Notre Dame, Olufashanu from Penn State, Talisa Fuaga
Speaker 1: from Oregon State, and JC Latham from Alabama. And the
Speaker 1: four picks immediately before the Bengals were on the clock
Speaker 1: were all guys worthy of consideration. Brock Bowers went fourteenth,
Speaker 1: cornerback quin Yon Mitchell from Toledo, fifteenth, wide receiver Brian
Speaker 1: Thomas from LSU sixteenth, and cornerback Terry and Arnold from
Speaker 1: Alabama seventeenth. That left me and the Bengals with plenty
Speaker 1: of great options, including offensive lineman Troy fought Utanu from
Speaker 1: Washington and Amarius Mims from Georgia. My top defensive tackles,
Speaker 1: Byron Murphy and Johnny Newton are still there, along with
Speaker 1: edge rusher Leatu Latu from UCLA. It came down to
Speaker 1: two guys for me, the offensive tackle faugh Utanu and
Speaker 1: the defensive tackle, Murphy. Now you might be asking why
Speaker 1: fought Utanu instead of Mims at offensive tackle. After all,
Speaker 1: Amarius Mims looks like he was made in a right
Speaker 1: tackle lab. He's six' eight three forty with gigantic arms
Speaker 1: and hands. He definitely has star potential, but there's risk involved.
Speaker 1: He missed most of last year with an ankle injury
Speaker 1: and made a total of eight starts in his career
Speaker 1: at Georgia. I favored Troy faugh Utanu because he's more
Speaker 1: of a sure thing. He's big enough at six four
Speaker 1: three seventeen and is an excellent athlete who plays.
Speaker 2: With a mean streak.
Speaker 1: Greg Cosel from NFL Films said the following about fa Utanu.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if he develops into one of
Speaker 1: the better offensive linemen in the NFL relatively soon. That's
Speaker 1: high praise from Greg. Fautanu played tackle and guarded Washington
Speaker 1: and could conceivably compete with Cordell Vohlsen for the left
Speaker 1: guard spot as a rookie before eventually kicking out to tack.
Speaker 1: So then it comes down to him or my top
Speaker 1: defensive tackle on the board. Byron Murphy from Texas According
Speaker 1: to Coseel, Murphy's twitchy, almost freaky, and plays low to
Speaker 1: the ground, maximizing his power. He's often compared to Falcons,
Speaker 1: Pro Bowl or Grady Jarrett because he's similarly sized at
Speaker 1: six feet tall two hundred ninety seven pounds Alas that
Speaker 1: means he's not a three hundred and thirty pounder like
Speaker 1: DJ Reader. So forced to choose between offensive tackle and
Speaker 1: defensive tackle, I went with fa Utanu. This is a
Speaker 1: historically good offensive tackle draft, and free agent right tackle
Speaker 1: Trent Brown only signed for one year. Protecting Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: and giving him weapons is always the number one priority,
Speaker 1: and the Bengals can't go wrong with the offensive lineman
Speaker 1: out of Washington. So I made that pick on the
Speaker 1: simulator and get this. The next three picks were offensive
Speaker 1: tackles mim at nineteen, Tyler Geiden out of Oklahoma at twenty,
Speaker 1: and Graham Barton from Duke at twenty one. And before
Speaker 1: the first round was over, Jordan Morgan from Arizona went
Speaker 1: thirty first and Kingsley Sua Mattia from BYU went thirty second.
Speaker 1: In short ten offensive tackles were selected in the first round.
Speaker 1: If the Bengals want one of those guys, they'll probably
Speaker 1: have to select him at number eighteen. Now, let's move
Speaker 1: to the second round and pick number forty nine. There
Speaker 1: are a couple of good slot receivers on the board
Speaker 1: in Roman Wilson from Michigan and Ricky pearsall from Florida,
Speaker 1: along with my number two tight end in the draft,
Speaker 1: Jatavian Sanders from Texas. But my pick came down to
Speaker 1: a pair of defensive tackles, Bryden Fisk of Florida State
Speaker 1: and Chris Jenkins of Michigan. I went with Fisk, one
Speaker 1: of the stars of the NFL Combine this year, placing
Speaker 1: first among defensive tackles in the forty the broad jump
Speaker 1: and the vertical jump. Daniel Jeremiah from the NFL Network
Speaker 1: ranks Fisk thirty seventh overall in this year's class, making
Speaker 1: him a good value at pick number forty nine, and
Speaker 1: he said the following about the six four, two hundred
Speaker 1: ninety two pound lineman. He's disruptive in every game I've studied.
Speaker 1: Fisk is a competitive, athletic and impactful defensive lineman capable
Speaker 1: of starting right away. So in the first two rounds,
Speaker 1: I stayed in the trenches, going O line in round
Speaker 1: one and D line in round two. The Bengals first
Speaker 1: third round pick is number eighty overall. Sanders, the tight
Speaker 1: end from Texas, went late in the second round, and
Speaker 1: his college teammate Mammoth three hundred and sixty six pound
Speaker 1: defensive tackle to Andre Sweat went five picks before the
Speaker 1: Bengals round the clock at number seventy five. My best
Speaker 1: options are offensive weapons like speedy Florida State running back
Speaker 1: Trey Benson, our wide receivers Devontes Walker, Javon Baker, or
Speaker 1: Malachi Corley. I went with Walker, who finished his college
Speaker 1: career at North Carolina after starting out at Kent State.
Speaker 1: We know the Bengals are looking to be more explosive
Speaker 1: on offense, and Walker can fly. He ran a four
Speaker 1: to three six forty at the Combine, and his nineteen
Speaker 1: touchdown catches in college averaged more than thirty yards. He's
Speaker 1: got decent size at six one and a half and
Speaker 1: is one of the smoothest, most fluid receivers in this class.
Speaker 1: With a likely departure of Tyler Boyd this year and
Speaker 1: perhaps te Higgins next year, it's important to add another
Speaker 1: receiver to the mix. Finally we get to the Bengals
Speaker 1: second pick in the third round, number ninety seven overall.
Speaker 1: I thought there was a chance that Benson might still
Speaker 1: be there, but he went ninety third. Fortunately, there are
Speaker 1: some good cornerbacks on the board and the Bengals need
Speaker 1: one after losing chitabey O Wouje in free agent. They
Speaker 1: have Cam Taylor, Britt and DJ Turner as the likely
Speaker 1: starters on the outside, but they need to add depth
Speaker 1: and I see two good options, Ronardo Green from Florida
Speaker 1: State and Chris Abrams Drain from Missouri. I chose Green,
Speaker 1: who has decent height and length, ran a four four
Speaker 1: nine forty and, according to Pro Football Focus, graded number
Speaker 1: one in Manda man coverage of any corner in this
Speaker 1: year's draft.
Speaker 2: So how did I do? Overall?
Speaker 1: My first two picks, fa Utanu and Fisk got A
Speaker 1: plus grades from PFF, my third rounder Walker got a
Speaker 1: B plus, and my second third rounder, Green earned a B.
Speaker 1: My overall grade was an A. So if Duke Tobin
Speaker 1: and his staff are looking for volunteer help, they know
Speaker 1: how to reach me.
Speaker 2: That's going to do it.
Speaker 1: For this episode of the Bengals Booth podcast brought to
Speaker 1: you by pay Corp Out to be the Bengals Official
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Speaker 1: designed to elevate your home, business and community to a
Speaker 1: new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for
Speaker 1: the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider
Speaker 1: of the Bengals. If you haven't done so already, please
Speaker 1: subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute,
Speaker 1: give it a rating or share a comment that helps
Speaker 1: more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks
Speaker 1: for listening to the Bengals Booth podcast.