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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Crime Roundup. I'm Cheryl McCollum and I

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Speaker 1: am joined by the peerless Nancy grayce and y'all, we

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Speaker 1: are talking about the murder of the CEO of United

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Speaker 1: Healthcare in New York City.

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Speaker 2: The victim, Brian Thompson, was a father.

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Speaker 1: Of two, was in New York City for a conference.

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Speaker 2: The weapon appears to be a well ride.

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Speaker 1: It's a World War II weapon that has a permanent

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Speaker 1: silencer on it.

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Speaker 2: Y'all.

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Speaker 1: That's a British Special Forces weapon. Again, this person is

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Speaker 1: playing the part of a hitman. He's not a real hitman. Morning, honey.

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Speaker 3: You know what, can I just tell you I have

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Speaker 3: walked that same exact spot a million times, fifty four

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Speaker 3: fifty fifth on the west side. Now over there, Cheryl,

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Speaker 3: as you know from visiting me in New York so

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Speaker 3: many times, that's where all the rich people live, you

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Speaker 3: know that, right the west side, southwest side, and uh,

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Speaker 3: because you know all those years at Court TV and HLN.

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Speaker 3: The hardest part is for US East Siders to try

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Speaker 3: to get over to the west side and get the

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Speaker 3: crosstown traffic, and it would actually be faster. David and

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Speaker 3: I have a joke it's like, should we take a

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Speaker 3: cab or do we have wait? How did it go?

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Speaker 3: Should should we walk or do we have time to

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Speaker 3: take a cab because trying to enter cross driving across

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Speaker 3: town would be so it would take an hour from

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Speaker 3: me to get from Court TV on the east side

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Speaker 3: to hill In on the west side. Anyway, so I

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Speaker 3: would pass walk exactly where this happened, which I'm sure

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Speaker 3: of sending shock waves to the upper west side. But

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Speaker 3: the morning what an a whole technical legal term because

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Speaker 3: all day am I I can't make it out from

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Speaker 3: his nose up I gotta have more. I was looking

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Speaker 3: at his hands, determined he was right handed. I know

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Speaker 3: that they can determine exactly how tall he is from

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Speaker 3: It sounds difficult, but let's just say he's standing by

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Speaker 3: a GMC a GMC, okay, a GMC, and you know

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Speaker 3: exactly how tall the GMC is, and then you extrapolate

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Speaker 3: you can figure out exactly how tall someone is. That

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Speaker 3: that's how it's done. It's not brain it's not brain surgery.

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Speaker 3: So we know a lot about him. We know where

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Speaker 3: he got the gun, and we know he's a free

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Speaker 3: because it's a World War two replica blah blah blah

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Speaker 3: blah blah. But then this a hole flirts with the

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Speaker 3: hostile worker who says, let me see that's SMA, and

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Speaker 3: he pulls down his mask and we see his whole face.

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Speaker 1: I mean, really, And Nancy, I wanted to ask your

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Speaker 1: opinion about something. We don't often get a calling card.

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Speaker 1: It happens, but they're rare, so when they do happen,

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Speaker 1: I tend to focus on that. And this person, this killer,

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Speaker 1: carved words into the shellcasings deny, defend, depose.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of that?

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Speaker 3: Well, they're taken almost verbatim from the title of a

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Speaker 3: book which we talked about on Crime Stories. It's the

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Speaker 3: book decrying the insurance industry. And this guy, I don't

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Speaker 3: think that he came up with the algorithm himself, but

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Speaker 3: he advanced the use of an algorithm that denied people's claims.

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Speaker 3: And can I tell you my dad, as you know,

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Speaker 3: was a heart patient. He started he had his first

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Speaker 3: coronary thrombosis when I was just a girl. And he

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Speaker 3: managed to live till eighty seven, and he was in

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Speaker 3: and of the hospital. He had two open heart surgeries.

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Speaker 3: He was airlifted to University of Alabama because his state

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Speaker 3: was so fragile even Emery wouldn't take him. And I

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Speaker 3: mean he had stints. He had as I call him

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Speaker 3: Rodeo routers. He kind just everything you could possibly think of.

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Speaker 3: And we would be on pins and needles waiting to

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Speaker 3: see what the insurance company was going to cover. He

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Speaker 3: was lucky. He worn't with Norfolk Southern his whole life.

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Speaker 3: And I'm a freight agent and so he had great insurance.

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Speaker 3: But we would be on pins and needles. I mean

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Speaker 3: there he is working for the railroad and my mom

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Speaker 3: a payroll clerk with us in school. You know, we

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Speaker 3: wouldn't have been devastated. We would have lost our house

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Speaker 3: that my grandfather built. We would have, you know, because

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Speaker 3: of insurance. And do you know that this morning, across

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Speaker 3: the country, it's really freaky. I'll get back to him

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Speaker 3: flirting in a moment. I mean, really, a man flirting

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Speaker 3: and shows his face and he's about to go commit

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Speaker 3: a murder. Really, you gotta get you just have to

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Speaker 3: have Starbucks and a bottle of water and candy before

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Speaker 3: you murder somebody. But now all across the country, these

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Speaker 3: sick tributes are appearing even outside the hotel where he

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Speaker 3: was gunned down. These tributes there people are happy. Well,

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Speaker 3: there was a balloon outside the hotel this morning and

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Speaker 3: taped to the balloon and said CEO down over the

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Speaker 3: image of a smiling star, and party poppers were found outside.

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Speaker 3: That's outside the Hilton Hotel in Midtown.

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Speaker 1: Well, I knew some folks were going to make him

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Speaker 1: out to be some Robin Hood. But you know, like

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Speaker 1: I told my children when they were little, Robin.

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Speaker 2: Hood's a criminal. He stole from people.

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Speaker 3: Bottom line, I'm not going to get into Robinhood with

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Speaker 3: you because I have my own thoughts on that and

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Speaker 3: they are quite divergent from yours. But in this, I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is the cold blooded murder of a father and

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Speaker 3: a lot it's been made about this stranged wife, and

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Speaker 3: I mean you do have to look at her. Of

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Speaker 3: course you have to look at her. I mean, there's strange.

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Speaker 3: I live in two mega mansions less than a mile apart,

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Speaker 3: but they seem to be to have been getting along

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Speaker 3: fairly well. And of course you have to point out,

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Speaker 3: you have to it's part of any investigation that she

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Speaker 3: may very well have known his itinerary. But it ain't

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Speaker 3: hard to find your Oh my goodness, your Rubbi GoF

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Speaker 3: on Mes said, ain't. But because even I just it

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Speaker 3: took me less than thirty seconds to go online and

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Speaker 3: where the entire day was laid out online for that

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Speaker 3: executive forum. And you know how rich people are. They

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Speaker 3: love free food, anything free. I mean, you know, so

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Speaker 3: you know he was over there at that breakfast, that's

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Speaker 3: where he was going. Predictable.

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Speaker 2: There are some things that you think was this a hit?

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Speaker 1: And then there are other things that make you think, no,

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Speaker 1: this was a single person that has targeted this victim.

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Speaker 3: It's not a hit. Oh he's not a pro. He's

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Speaker 3: not a pro. What a pro wants to get in

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Speaker 3: and get out? Why would you go to the trouble?

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Speaker 3: What did you take it to Cave Jewelers and have

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Speaker 3: the bulletsing grave? For Pete's sake? Why would you leave

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Speaker 3: a calling card? Pros don't want to get caught. They

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Speaker 3: don't even that's just gone. You never see them. This

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Speaker 3: guy's a deer in the headlights right for the surreillance

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Speaker 3: exactly because there's twenty six thousand cameras, literally twenty five

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Speaker 3: five hundred surrellance cameras in Manhattan alone. I think he

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Speaker 3: caught most of them.

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Speaker 1: Agreed, a pro would have done a kill shot. It

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Speaker 1: would have been for the neck up. He wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: had to fire twice and he hit him in the

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Speaker 1: leg and hit him in the leg. And a pro

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have sent letters of warning beforehand, and there wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have been any messages on the shellcasing. So for me,

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Speaker 1: this kind of rings to like DC Sniper or Eric

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Speaker 1: Robert Rudolph.

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Speaker 2: This seems revengeful.

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Speaker 1: This seems like somebody next level that is sitting at

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Speaker 1: home in their basement, you know, engraving these shellcasings because

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Speaker 1: they are so angry.

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Speaker 3: And you do know he took a greathound bus from

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Speaker 3: our home the atl Correct.

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you that too, because again

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Speaker 1: he did some planning, just like Eric Robert Rudolph. He thought, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to take a plane because I want

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Speaker 1: to take a gun, the gun that I've selected. So

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Speaker 1: he thought, I'll take a bus. I'll stay at a

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Speaker 1: hostel with a fake ID. They'll never know who I am,

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Speaker 1: they'll never track me down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, other than that fingerprint I left on my candy

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Speaker 3: wrapper waits and the water bottle at the Zillbron and

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Speaker 3: now we're willing to cell phone may not be a burner,

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Speaker 3: it may actually be his phone.

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Speaker 2: And y'all, I'm going.

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Speaker 1: To go back to Eric Robert Rudolf for a second,

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Speaker 1: because he did a lot of planet He did a

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Speaker 1: lot of research and building of those bombs. Before the

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Speaker 1: Olympic Park bombing, he had his plan to escape when

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Speaker 1: he hit that Nanda Hala forest.

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Speaker 2: Natany would like to have never found him. It took

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Speaker 2: seven years. You know.

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Speaker 3: I've got it in for Rudolph, right because number one,

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Speaker 3: I were at the Olympic bombing that night, was until

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Speaker 3: four am with our friend Al Dixon taking witness statements.

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Speaker 3: And then when he set off the simultaneous bombs at

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Speaker 3: the abortion clinic, some of that shrapnel actually hit my investigator.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we'll all never get over that, you know.

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Speaker 2: But here's the deal.

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Speaker 1: When you watch him when that gun jams and he's

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Speaker 1: able to stay with it, clear and then re engage,

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Speaker 1: he does have some knowledge of that weapon.

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Speaker 2: There's no question. Still not a pro.

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Speaker 3: Goodness now, and that taking the pro stans. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I've always been watching too many movies. What does this

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Speaker 3: guy do for a living? How can he be gone

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Speaker 3: this long from work and or family? I mean, which

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Speaker 3: tells me he probably doesn't have one. And again, in

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Speaker 3: playing to his vanity, he flirts with the clerk at

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Speaker 3: the hostile the youth hostel, and that's how we end

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Speaker 3: up seeing his whole face I mean, and his big smile.

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Speaker 3: Just his behavior before is I don't know, I find

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Speaker 3: it irreconcilable with what he did. This guy hanging out

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Speaker 3: at Starbucks drinking a bottle of water got to have

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Speaker 3: his candy fix, leaving behind a cell phone, and there's

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Speaker 3: now a video of him coming up off the underground

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Speaker 3: subway and walking almost jauntily to the murder. And then

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Speaker 3: he is a flirty moment with a hostile clerk just oh,

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Speaker 3: which ends up with us getting its full on face.

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Speaker 1: If you know that guy, that is obvious who it is,

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Speaker 1: if you know it.

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Speaker 2: So I'm really kind of surprised we don't already have

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Speaker 2: a name.

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Speaker 3: The better up the.

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Speaker 1: Reward, agreed, And you know, we have a rule in

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Speaker 1: crime scene investigation. The more the person has to do,

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Speaker 1: like the bus ticket, the hostile, the fake ID, the

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Speaker 1: cell phone, the more mistakes they're gonna make. And this guy,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm assuming Atlanta might be the original you

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Speaker 1: know place that he was at, but who knows where

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Speaker 1: you know, where he came from from there, So again

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Speaker 1: I believe they will have a name today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with you. But you gotta

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Speaker 3: have something to compare with the Layton print. Layton print

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Speaker 3: as the print left at the scene, like on the window,

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Speaker 3: on the murder weapon, on the protein bar wrapper we

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Speaker 3: heard it was candy, could be protein bar on the

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Speaker 3: water bottle that he bought from Starbucks just before the shooting.

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Speaker 3: But if he's not in the system aphis, if he's

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Speaker 3: not in the DNA data bag or the fingerprint system,

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Speaker 3: we don't have anything we can use to get a

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Speaker 3: comparison and get a name. So I don't know that

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Speaker 3: this guy has any record, he's got anything. I'm wondering

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Speaker 3: if it's something like traffic infraction, something like that. He

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Speaker 3: doesn't seem to me like an armed robber with a

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Speaker 3: rap sheet, see what I mean?

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 1: I keep going back to DC Sniper and Eric Rudol.

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Speaker 1: That's how this guy comes off to me. And he's

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Speaker 1: done enough research and maybe he knows enough things that yes,

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Speaker 1: he's mad at the insurance companies. Then that book's going

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Speaker 1: to resonate with him.

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Speaker 2: Writing on bullets.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean people know about that, from the Civil

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Speaker 1: War to the mafia to you know, the armed services

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Speaker 1: where they write on bombs. I mean that's been done.

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Speaker 1: I mean people have written on you know, shewcasings.

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Speaker 3: And he's got a lot of alone time.

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Speaker 2: He's got a lot of a loone time.

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Speaker 1: And again his anger is his because to me, the

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Speaker 1: last word to pose, that's the key. To me, that's

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Speaker 1: his motive right there. Deposed to me, there's two things.

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Speaker 1: You're either testifying so that means he had a fail

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Speaker 1: suit against maybe an insurance company, and the other deposed

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Speaker 1: of course, is being removed from office. So when he

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Speaker 1: changed that one word, that to me.

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Speaker 2: Is his motive.

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Speaker 3: I'm just thinking about what you said, all the steps

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Speaker 3: he took, all the pre planning, and as you said, correctly,

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Speaker 3: the more steps, the more planning, the more likely it

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Speaker 3: is you will't make a mistake. This guy had to

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Speaker 3: make a mistake, just like we saw. Anikobayashi really was

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Speaker 3: found out after she went to a Greyhound bus station

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Speaker 3: and used her passport to get from la all the

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Speaker 3: way to Santa Sedro and then on to Mexico. This

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Speaker 3: guy took a bus. Now, of course you don't. It's

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Speaker 3: not as tight at a bus station as it is

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Speaker 3: like an airport regarding ID But she was leaving the

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Speaker 3: country and had to show her passport. This guy, I

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Speaker 3: don't think you have to show any idea to get

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Speaker 3: a bus ticket.

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Speaker 2: Nope.

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Speaker 3: So but we're going to find him. We're going to

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Speaker 3: find video of him at bus station. That means we're

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Speaker 3: going to find out how he got to the breast station.

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Speaker 3: Does he have a rental car, did he leave a

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Speaker 3: car somewhere? Did he take an uber? I mean, when

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Speaker 3: you think back along his trump it's gonna they're going

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Speaker 3: to find him.

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Speaker 1: If that's where he originated from, was Atlanta, he either

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Speaker 1: had to leave a car there, take an uber there,

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Speaker 1: have somebody drop him off.

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Speaker 2: And I'm gonna tell you something.

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Speaker 1: I took a bus one time from Atlanta to Valdosta

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Speaker 1: to visit with my sisters at Valdosta State. That's the

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Speaker 1: longest ride I've ever had in my life that I've

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Speaker 1: driven across the country. A bus from Atlanta to New York.

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Speaker 1: He chatted up somebody.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a video of him. We are going to

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Speaker 3: find out who he is. I took the greyhound bus

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Speaker 3: from making to Athens a lot to see Keith, and

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Speaker 3: I didn't have a bad experience. But Atlanta to New York,

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Speaker 3: all those stops along the way, all those rural route stops,

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Speaker 3: some of them just on the side of the road.

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Speaker 3: Somebody just be standing on the side of the road

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Speaker 3: and the bus stops. It's like, how did you know that?

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Speaker 3: Out in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: And if he's flirting with the clerk at the hostel,

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Speaker 1: he was flirting with somebody on that bus because he

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Speaker 1: was on that bus a long time.

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Speaker 3: Well, another thing I noticed. I think he's hand Orthodonia.

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Speaker 3: Did you look at a smile yep, his teeth are perfect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And he's got a little bit of money. I

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Speaker 2: mean the backpack getting cheap. He didn't look tight.

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Speaker 3: One hundred dollars seventy nine dollars that's tried.

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Speaker 2: His jacket looked brand new. I mean he's got one.

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Speaker 3: For thirty dollars at Walmart. I know that's right. That's

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Speaker 3: an expensive photography backpack he's got going on. So he

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Speaker 3: bought a particular backpack that he thought would blend in

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Speaker 3: that he could use to store the gun in the AMMO,

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Speaker 3: and then his probable change of clothes. I think he

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Speaker 3: took the e bank to Central Park, hustled through Central Park.

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Speaker 3: Maybe she had clothes. You remember that bank robbery I

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Speaker 3: had where the guy came out of the bank. It

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Speaker 3: was OLC and s bank came out of the bank.

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Speaker 3: He had he had was wearing a quote sewed on suit.

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Speaker 3: He yanked it off, it just based it up the back,

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Speaker 3: took off his hat, his wig, his mustache, his fake beard,

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Speaker 3: threw it all down. Underneath. He had on a pair

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Speaker 3: of shorts, short shorts, tall athletic socks, and he hopped

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Speaker 3: on a bike and just pedaled off. As the sirens approached.

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Speaker 3: This guy on an e bank, I think he dumped

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Speaker 3: it somewhere in the park, switched clothes and got on

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Speaker 3: another subway and got out of there. But he would

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Speaker 3: have kept that backpack in the same shoes, And it's cold,

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Speaker 3: so I don't know if he kept the same coat,

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Speaker 3: an army style coat.

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Speaker 2: He thought he was going to look like any other

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Speaker 2: bike messenger.

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Speaker 3: Now we're he It may not have been a city bike.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if he was so I wonder if he

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Speaker 3: did use a city bike, if you use a credit card,

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Speaker 3: for beat's sake. But that said, I mean, he did

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Speaker 3: everything wrong, but he hey, hey, got to give him credit.

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Speaker 3: He's made this far, that's right.

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Speaker 1: But you know, New York City is one of the

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Speaker 1: best police departments in the world. They've got a lot

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Speaker 1: of help with the Feds. I'm telling you, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: know today.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So how long do you give it till they

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Speaker 3: get him.

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Speaker 1: They'll know the name by one o'clock today, and I

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Speaker 1: think he'll be in custody pretty quick.

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Speaker 3: You're getting pretty bold. Do you know the thing about

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Speaker 3: this guy, I'm the victim. He's a father of two boys.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're talking about the healthcare system and how

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Speaker 3: it sucks and how it screws people over. Ah, that's true,

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Speaker 3: and he was right in there, But he's also the

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Speaker 3: father of two boys.

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Speaker 1: Nancy, bottom line, doesn't matter what your anger is towards somebody,

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Speaker 1: what your feeling is that you may deserve so or

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Speaker 1: need something, or you know, something happened. Let's say there

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Speaker 1: was an illness or a traumatic injury that was something

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Speaker 1: you did not do. You didn't cause it. It happened

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Speaker 1: to you, and you don't want to be destitute because

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Speaker 1: of that. I understand all of that. You still can't

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Speaker 1: murder somebody. So it's just like you know people say,

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Speaker 1: with you know Trump, it doesn't matter if you love

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Speaker 1: him or hate him, you don't shoot the man on

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Speaker 1: the stage. Murder is just something I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: against every single time.

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Speaker 2: There's no debate. To me, there's no gray area, period.

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Speaker 3: Can I get you down out of the pulpit for

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Speaker 3: a minute and talk about the evidence. What about the

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Speaker 3: fake New Jersey driver's license. I wonder if the idiot

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Speaker 3: got it online. Have you ever looked online fake driver's license?

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Speaker 3: They're really easy to get. I don't want to give

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Speaker 3: you ideas, but I wonder how we got that fake

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Speaker 3: Jersey driver's license. So he's on a Greyhound coming from

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Speaker 3: Atlanta to New York. He's got a fake Jersey license.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he really has left a trail.

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Speaker 2: He's left a big trail. We've got his being of bread.

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Speaker 2: For Lord's sakes, we're going.

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Speaker 3: To have that.

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Speaker 1: He had dinner somewhere in New York the night before.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's on video.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you something. The whole phrase, delay,

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Speaker 3: deny defend. Okay, now the bullets say delay is deposed,

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Speaker 3: but delay deny defend is apparently a popular phrase in

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Speaker 3: the insurance industry. How they get out of paying people

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Speaker 3: delay deny and then defend.

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Speaker 1: Right, absolutely one hundred. That's why I'm saying him changing

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Speaker 1: that one word.

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Speaker 2: He played his hand right there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, deposed.

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Speaker 1: When they catch him and when they inevitably interview him,

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Speaker 1: I guarantee that investigator is going to hammer that right there.

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Speaker 1: He met with him, He'll say, buddy, I get it.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, my sister Shelley had a traumatic injury

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Speaker 1: two years ago.

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Speaker 3: Wait, can we talk about it for a moment, because

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Speaker 3: when you say that, everybody wants to know what it was.

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Speaker 1: It is awful. She fell backwards into an empty swimming pool,

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Speaker 1: and I mean it could have killed her. It's not

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Speaker 1: for her trying to catch herself on the side of

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Speaker 1: the pool, which broke her left arm, but it also

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Speaker 1: corrected her enough. She didn't hit head first, but he

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Speaker 1: broke both feet, both hills, both apples.

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Speaker 3: She fall.

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Speaker 1: She was looking forward and telling one sister, you know,

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Speaker 1: things about the landscape, like where she would put this

380
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Speaker 1: flower or a palm tree or something else, and she

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Speaker 1: just walked backwards while she was talking, like trying to

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Speaker 1: get the overall.

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Speaker 2: View, and just walked right off the earth. That's all

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Speaker 2: there was to it.

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Speaker 1: But again, the first thing they did was deny all

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Speaker 1: her claims, so they had to fight for that. And

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Speaker 1: you know, my sister, she has been, you know, fighting

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Speaker 1: leukemia for years.

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Speaker 2: That's just part of it. It's almost like the game.

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Speaker 3: My beloved sister, her husband who just passed away, fought

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Speaker 3: MS for thirty years. He was diagnosed when I had

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Speaker 3: been out of law school just a year or two.

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Speaker 3: And Cheryl, he was so brilliant. They met at the

394
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Speaker 3: Wharton School, as you know. My sister's a professor there,

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Speaker 3: and he was getting his MBA and on top of

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Speaker 3: taking care of him and working full time and raising

397
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Speaker 3: two children. I'm sure she had to fight with the

398
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Speaker 3: insurance company. It's just it's a full time job. I know,

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Speaker 3: with my mother having her living with us, it's a

400
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Speaker 3: full time job. Just trying to keep off her doctor

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Speaker 3: appointments straight and which reminds me and she wants some

402
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Speaker 3: more coffee. Okay, that's said. That said, he and Lucy

403
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Speaker 3: definitely rule the roots. I'm fine with that. I have

404
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 3: a problem with it. It's a full time job, and

405
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Speaker 3: I'm just thinking about people out there suffering a catastrophic

406
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Speaker 3: illness or or injury like your sister, like both of

407
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Speaker 3: your sisters, and also the full time job of fighting

408
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Speaker 3: with the insurance company. But that phrase deny, delay, defend, wait, delay, deny, defend,

409
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Speaker 3: and that they actually there's a book written about that,

410
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Speaker 3: about how awful the insurance industry is. But why this guy?

411
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Speaker 3: Why Thompson? Why Brian Thompson. Yeah, I mean he's the

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Speaker 3: CEO of United Healthcare, so obviously he's a titular figurehead.

413
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Speaker 3: But why him? Did he have a peicure involvement in

414
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Speaker 3: a case? I don't think so's And there's that algorithm

415
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 3: with which he was associated to deny claims. I don't know,

416
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Speaker 3: but I know this. What I do know is criminal.

417
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Speaker 3: On how to prove the case that fake ID that

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Speaker 3: travel on Greyhound the self phone, I mean it's a

419
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Speaker 3: matter of time. This guy would have to be out

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Speaker 3: of the country or really laying low like Rudolph did.

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Speaker 1: And Nancy, I know you, and can you imagine when

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Speaker 1: they talk with the young lady at the hostel. What

423
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Speaker 1: did he say to her? Did he say, oh, you

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Speaker 1: make me smile? And she says, let me see that smile?

425
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Speaker 1: Like what prompt did that?

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Speaker 3: And I wonder if he had a Southern accent.

427
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Speaker 1: See there he goes, she's going to be able to

428
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Speaker 1: tell them, but I know you and you would be

429
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Speaker 1: able to tell that jury. Right before he murdered this

430
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Speaker 1: man in cold blood on a street, he was flirting with.

431
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Speaker 2: Her and said, and you'll have that phrase.

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Speaker 3: You know another thing about this guy? As Thompson crumpled

433
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Speaker 3: up against a wall, that Sheeter walked right toward him

434
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 3: and seemingly pointing the gun at him one more time.

435
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Speaker 3: Then he walked away and he only started to run

436
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 3: as he was crossing the street. He kept very very calm.

437
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: You remember when Eric Robert Rudolph called now one one

438
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: before the bomb went off, there's a bomb.

439
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 2: In Centennial Park. You have twenty minutes, that's it. And

440
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 2: he walked away, same thing, just walked away.

441
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 3: And I've always wondered why did he even do that.

442
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: He made the call so that first responders would rush there,

443
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: so more would be hurt, and just like this guy,

444
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: supposedly he said all.

445
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 2: Kind of warnings that he was going to do it again.

446
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: Not a pro but that's the reason.

447
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: They, to your point, have to look at the wall

448
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: or the ex wife, are their letters, are their emails

449
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: or their phone calls?

450
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: Is there any proof that happened? What is the proof?

451
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: What's the word? You know? Again? You know, did he

452
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: use the word aim? Did he use something that.

453
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: Is regional that they're going to be able to say?

454
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: And now we've got a handwrite, And now we've maybe

455
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: got a bogus email address.

456
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 2: Or some Gmail that we can trace back. I'm just

457
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 2: telling you, every step you make you leave betrayal. You know.

458
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 3: One thing I want to point out is I've seen

459
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: conflicting reports, and early this morning I was reading the

460
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 3: Times and they refer only to deny and defend. They

461
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 3: don't include the word deposed. So I'm wondering if but

462
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 3: more outlets say include include deposed, more outlets to include deposed.

463
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 3: So I don't know if all three words were there,

464
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 3: but any at all tell me a lot about his personality.

465
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: Well, we know there's three casings because he's shotting twice

466
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: and got jammed and he cleared it. So there's I

467
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: would imagine there are absolutely three, and.

468
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: I's he wrote all three words on every bullet.

469
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 2: I want that gun and see what the other one say.

470
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 3: Well, I agree with that. Yeah, I'm giving you a

471
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 3: hard time, but you're right.

472
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all I'm saying.

473
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 3: Well, Hey, can I just say I kind of miss

474
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: the wagon wheel salad I know, right, what was the

475
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 3: name of that place, Mountain Jack, Mountain Jacks. Yes, the

476
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 3: salad wheel, y'all.

477
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: I've never had anything like it, never seen any kind

478
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: of display like it.

479
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 3: But I was disappointed in one way. I thought they

480
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 3: were going to leave the salad wheel at the table

481
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 3: with me, yakay, and I can just eat it. They

482
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 3: came and you had to pick what you wanted off.

483
00:27:54,960 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 3: It's actually like a wagon wheel with different salad toy, says,

484
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 3: and then they make your salad out of what's on

485
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 3: the wagon wheel. I loved it. I was, you know,

486
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: fixated on the salad wheel and actually threw a little

487
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 3: hissy fit when they wouldn't bring the salad wheel to

488
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 3: the bar. So that was the only thing. Not that

489
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 3: I want to be photographed sitting at a bar, because

490
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 3: that has happened before.

491
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: I understood.

492
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,239
Speaker 3: But that said, the wagon wheel Okay, so that's all

493
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 3: I'm saying. I'm going to leave on that note, you

494
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 3: know another, but let me ask you something. Speaking of

495
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 3: Mountain Jackson Delphi, I'm thinking about Libby in Abbey's family

496
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: because after the trial and things start to settle down,

497
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 3: and then that hoopla is over and your left with

498
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 3: this empty house. I've been there. I know what it

499
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 3: feels like. So I'm just thinking about them a lot

500
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: and what they're going through right now. You know, everyone

501
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 3: was thinking about them and contacting them and reaching out

502
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 3: to them during the trial. It's just flat and I

503
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 3: wonder how.

504
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 2: They're doing well.

505
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: I did text with Kelsey over Thanksgiving and they're doing

506
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: the best they can.

507
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: You know them as well as anybody. They are strong.

508
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: And nothing, nothing in this world. Heals better than a baby.

509
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: And I think her fixing to have that second baby.

510
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: That's going to be their focus.

511
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 3: We need to have another baby, Cheryl, do you want here?

512
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: I would in a heartbeat. Let's do it. I would too.

513
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 3: I would too. David has given me like the biggest

514
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 3: heory eyeball ever. He's like, no, you know, I wanted

515
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 3: four children and he wanted like maybe one. So I

516
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 3: got two. So I'm lucky. I'm gonna run with it.

517
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: Yours are so brilliant and so accomplished and so amazing.

518
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: I mean, Nancy think every level they have been successful,

519
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: whether it's academics or sports or community service. I mean,

520
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: they are tremendous people. I just feel like you're gonna

521
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: bounce back and forth from dorm room to dorm room.

522
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 3: Just I can only pray. Did I tell you what

523
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 3: their Eagle Scout projects are?

524
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: No?

525
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 3: Okay, I love the way you act like you're interested,

526
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 3: but I'm going to take that and go with it.

527
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: Let me tell you, not only am I interested, I'm

528
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: so freaking impressed by that because they've been doing this

529
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: so long and they're going to get, you know, a

530
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: letter from the President.

531
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: I mean, an Eagle Scout is a huge accomplishment.

532
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 3: Okay, hey, do you want to hear first? Lisier? John David,

533
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 3: John David, Okay, John David. He is hand making and

534
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 3: this is not from a kit, which'll might just get

535
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 3: a kit from home. Depaut. He's like, no, I might

536
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 3: loas You's only no, he's handmaking it U And we

537
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: spent oh gosh, I don't know how many hours last

538
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 3: weekend painting boards in the carport. He is handmaking benches

539
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: out of two by four and they're going to be

540
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,959
Speaker 3: near our little Methodist church, but in a spot where

541
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 3: the parking lot is used as a hub for how

542
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: do I say work employee transit buses. Say you go

543
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 3: that parking lot and then a transit bus will pick

544
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: you up, you know, like a Ford transit bus will

545
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 3: pick you up and take you to your job at

546
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 3: the hospital, okay, or it will take you to your

547
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 3: job at the mall or wherever your job is. There

548
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: are people that don't have cars that have to take

549
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 3: a bus to this location and then they sit there

550
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: and wait for their employer transit bus to come pick

551
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 3: them up and take them to their job. So those

552
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 3: people have a very long commute, okay. So he's making

553
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 3: a bench for that. He's making a bench for near

554
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 3: a handicap ramp where people come down off that ramp

555
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 3: and if their ride's not there, they may not be

556
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 3: able to stand. So he's been putting a bench right there.

557
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 3: And he's making another bench for pickup and drop off

558
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 3: for a little children at a pre k And there's

559
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 3: a fourth bench, but I don't know where it's going

560
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: just at this moment, but I'm just step out of him.

561
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 3: For people that can't just pop in their Audie or

562
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 3: their Volvo and take off to work in the morning

563
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 3: and their climate controlled you know, sound system.

564
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: And the reason I wanted to ask about his is

565
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: I saw him working on the back of his truck,

566
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: standing and measuring.

567
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And yes, I'm gonna make him

568
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 3: wear safety goggles. He had them. I got them for him,

569
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: but I turned my back and he took them off.

570
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,479
Speaker 3: And then of course I saw the perfect photo and

571
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 3: I can't be bothered with safety goggle. But yes he

572
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 3: has safety goggles. At least. See my little rescious sweet

573
00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:00,239
Speaker 3: flower she is and I may call on you. You're

574
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 3: gain to help. She is hand making one hundred please,

575
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: full size like double bedsized blankets for the homeless to

576
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 3: hand out in the winter months, probably in January one hundred.

577
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 3: Part of the whole Eagle thing is you can't just

578
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 3: make your family do it. You have to lead your

579
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: troop or other groups. You have to solicit them, enlist them,

580
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 3: and arrange these work times like you've got a work

581
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 3: crew and create. You can't just do it on your own.

582
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 3: You have to have group effort. That's part of it,

583
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 3: the leadership part. So it's a big undertaking. I think

584
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 3: I should have my eagle for Pete's sake. But I

585
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 3: just want to tell you something else. You know, when

586
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: I grew up doing four h which we loved in

587
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 3: you know, rural Georgia, but girls can he eagles, then

588
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 3: that's something called silver skirt out or something like that.

589
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 3: But now girls can be eagle. I am so proud

590
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: of Lucy. I don't know what to do.

591
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 2: I am so proud. It's so impressive.

592
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 3: Well, it's just that when we knock on some wood

593
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,919
Speaker 3: to make sure that they both get through. That got

594
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 3: the dog going, Okay, I gotta go. I got bad

595
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 3: people to put.

596
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: In jail right behind you, sugar. People love love you,

597
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 2: love you,