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Speaker 1: Built Forward Proud. Hey, welcome to Beyond the Scenes. Look,
Speaker 1: this is the podcast that's like, you know even you
Speaker 1: know what this podcast is like. This podcast is that
Speaker 1: big gas bag of Eminem's that you dump into your
Speaker 1: popcorn right as the movie starting. So did you get
Speaker 1: a little bit of sweet along with that butter resalty savory? Right?
Speaker 1: It's that contrast, you know. That's what this podcast is.
Speaker 1: You know, it's the goodness that you didn't even know
Speaker 1: you needed to. That weird kid Marcella's did it that
Speaker 1: one time and now you can never go back. There
Speaker 1: was a kid one time he put he put his
Speaker 1: French fries in his ice cream and I was like,
Speaker 1: that is disgusting. And then I tasted it and I
Speaker 1: was like, that is brilliant. I need to figure out
Speaker 1: where the kid is these days anyway, speaking of my
Speaker 1: failing health due to an unsustainable diet of ice cream
Speaker 1: and French fries. Today we are diving into the latest
Speaker 1: debacle to hit the American health care system, the nursing crisis.
Speaker 1: Give him a clip. Nurses understandably piste off right now.
Speaker 1: No matter how dedicated you want to a profession, everyone
Speaker 1: has a breaking point, and nearly two years into serving
Speaker 1: on the front lines of this war, a lot of
Speaker 1: them are starting to update their LinkedIn's. Some hospitals experiencing
Speaker 1: critical staffing shortages, as frontline workers say they feel like
Speaker 1: their own underwater. Survey during the pandemic found that six
Speaker 1: of intensive care nurses are burned out burnout stress grueling hours.
Speaker 1: There are multiple reasons career nurses are choosing to leave.
Speaker 1: Mississippi has at least two thousand fewer nurses than it
Speaker 1: did at the beginning of the year. In Kentucky, more
Speaker 1: than twenty hospitals report critical staffing shortages. In hard hit
Speaker 1: New York, there was a fo increase in nurses looking
Speaker 1: for new jobs. We are joined today to break down
Speaker 1: this Daily Show segment with number one Daily Show associate producer.
Speaker 1: You've heard on this wonderful program before Madeline Coon's Madaline.
Speaker 1: How are you doing today? I'm good, Roy, It's good
Speaker 1: to be back. Always a pleasure. What is this third?
Speaker 1: Fourth time? I think it's fair and I think I'm
Speaker 1: tied with c J. Now I don't know, it's it's
Speaker 1: all a blur. I'm just heading. Also joining us on
Speaker 1: the program today is a long time nurse and nurse educator,
Speaker 1: a doctor of nurse, a doctor of nurse, and you know,
Speaker 1: just to show those physicians what's what, Dr Christopher Freeze.
Speaker 1: Dr Freeze, welcome aboard beyond the scenes. It's great to
Speaker 1: be with you. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you.
Speaker 1: And I know that the people um listening cannot see this,
Speaker 1: but I want to acknowledge how color coordinated your couches
Speaker 1: with the background in the the your living space. There's
Speaker 1: a color um what's what's the word like a palette?
Speaker 1: The color story. That's yeah, my girlfriend is the color story.
Speaker 1: Everybody's worried about books in the background trying to impress people,
Speaker 1: but not you don't. You got the turquoise contrasted with
Speaker 1: a little bit of her brown. It's very it's very nice,
Speaker 1: very nice. Thank you. We're going for a ten out
Speaker 1: of ten, so thank you. Well, we'll see room Raiders
Speaker 1: a bunch of assholes. They gave me a six. They
Speaker 1: can kiss my ass. Sorry about that. We're here to
Speaker 1: talk about things that are much more upright and appropriate, Madeline.
Speaker 1: This segment that we did on the Daily Show, we
Speaker 1: just played a little bit of a piece of the
Speaker 1: original segment, but for folks that that mistic, give us
Speaker 1: a little bit of an overview of what the segment
Speaker 1: covered up and how it came to your attention. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the pieces essentially, uh, it's about how the crux
Speaker 1: of how we have a critical national nursing shortage, which
Speaker 1: is only getting worse by the way. It's not magically
Speaker 1: solved since we did this piece, and a lot of
Speaker 1: that is due to nurses burning out on the job.
Speaker 1: And this particularly why we did it when we did
Speaker 1: earlier this year, is because it's you know, after after
Speaker 1: I feel like the vaccines came in and we were all, yeah,
Speaker 1: we have a vaccine, the pandemic is over. Except well,
Speaker 1: we were going dining, nurses and all the healthcare workers
Speaker 1: were being thrown into another pandemic, and that was the
Speaker 1: pandemic of the unvaccinated and the ridiculous, and really like
Speaker 1: truly awful fact of that is that unlike the first wave,
Speaker 1: when we were all kind of dealing with something we
Speaker 1: couldn't control, this one was completely preventable and it did
Speaker 1: not have to happen. So then, as you were piecing
Speaker 1: this together for the show, the thing we've talked about
Speaker 1: on this podcast in the past about is how we
Speaker 1: can find an issue and then you can find eight
Speaker 1: different aspects of this issue to address. What were the
Speaker 1: ones that you all decided to dial it in on
Speaker 1: and why I know that on the one hand, we
Speaker 1: can talk about the mental health part of it, but
Speaker 1: then you can also talk about the staffing part of it,
Speaker 1: but then you can also talk about the public negligence
Speaker 1: part of it. So just how did you all as
Speaker 1: you all were producing and putting this piece together, how
Speaker 1: did you all decide the hierarchy of important things to
Speaker 1: make sure it stayed in the piece and didn't get
Speaker 1: edited out part of it? I will say, I think
Speaker 1: the heart of the piece that I really wanted to
Speaker 1: try to address in some way. I'm not a nurse,
Speaker 1: but I've had some I've had more interaction with the
Speaker 1: hospital system, I think than the average Americans. So like
Speaker 1: when I was young, I was in the hospital, I
Speaker 1: was hospitalized a lot for pneumonia. And I'm definitely a
Speaker 1: product of my parents health insurance and modern medicine. And
Speaker 1: I am fine. But the you know, one of the
Speaker 1: reasons I'm still here is because of the you know,
Speaker 1: I mean fantastic doctors, but fantastic nurses. So a lot
Speaker 1: of my earliest memories are of just like nurses in
Speaker 1: that care and just like experiencing firsthand what a difference
Speaker 1: like that level of like human care makes. Like Okay,
Speaker 1: So for example, um, I'm gonna go off on an
Speaker 1: anecdote now that I thought of. But when I was so,
Speaker 1: I was a young kid in the hospital and they
Speaker 1: would always put these i vs in my hands all
Speaker 1: the time, And as a kid, I hated that because
Speaker 1: I wanted to like play with my hands, because you're
Speaker 1: when you're in the hospital for long time is actually
Speaker 1: kind of boring because you just not much to do
Speaker 1: as a patient, not as a hospital worker, as a patient,
Speaker 1: as a kid. Um And when they listened and they
Speaker 1: put the ivy in my foot, and what you think
Speaker 1: would be hard because I wouldn't be able to walk around.
Speaker 1: But what the nurses did is they let me ride
Speaker 1: you like those long, big I V polls, They would
Speaker 1: let me ride around the hospital on those like the
Speaker 1: Silver Surfer or something. And so I I think when
Speaker 1: when I think back to that time, I think it's
Speaker 1: something could have been a very scary memory is actually
Speaker 1: very warm. And that all of that had to do
Speaker 1: with the level of care I received. And so when
Speaker 1: I was looking for pieces and seeing how nurses are
Speaker 1: being affected by COVID, there was a part of me
Speaker 1: that remembered the level of care that you can get
Speaker 1: when nurses are able to do their job versus what
Speaker 1: we're seeing happening now. And that's what I started looking at, saying,
Speaker 1: like how can how how can we tell that story?
Speaker 1: How can we show what should be? And how can
Speaker 1: we show it? Is? Because Dr Freeze, you know, when
Speaker 1: you look at healthcare in the modern era in this
Speaker 1: country now, like it's not just about knowing your job
Speaker 1: from a techie technical I V find the vein standpoint.
Speaker 1: You also it seems that the job of nurse is
Speaker 1: a little bit part sociologists as well, where you have
Speaker 1: to be able to relate to people. And I would
Speaker 1: even argue that it might be a little small element
Speaker 1: of social work and trying to just connect with people
Speaker 1: on a normal human basis. But you have a lot
Speaker 1: of different confluences happening. What do you believe are the
Speaker 1: primary challenges for nurses and the health care system right now? Well,
Speaker 1: how much time do we have right now? Um? So,
Speaker 1: first I want to say that each and every day,
Speaker 1: nurses are delivering exceptional care across the country. They are
Speaker 1: they are getting it done for their patients technically, socially, physically.
Speaker 1: They are problems solving behind the scenes there you know,
Speaker 1: I call it, you know, part technical, part psychology, part
Speaker 1: air traffic controller, and and that's the part that a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't see. So a lot of excellent
Speaker 1: nursing care is still happening. But we're on the brink,
Speaker 1: and we've been on the brink for about almost two
Speaker 1: years now. So when we think about the priorities, what
Speaker 1: I'm really worried about is at some point our public
Speaker 1: health officials will have a lower level of concern for
Speaker 1: COVID than they do right now. They will say we're
Speaker 1: in a phase that we can quote manage this. We
Speaker 1: we have an ability. You know, the case ounts are very,
Speaker 1: very low. We're not seeing these big white spikes that
Speaker 1: we're still seeing. And everybody's gonna say, oh, great, problems solving.
Speaker 1: They're gonna walk away, and they're gonna leave nurses in
Speaker 1: the lurch without solving the underlying structural things that are
Speaker 1: happening to nurses every day and have been happening for
Speaker 1: a decade. So my team has been studying nursing work
Speaker 1: places for two decades now. A couple of things that
Speaker 1: I'm very worried about. One is executives are not spending
Speaker 1: enough time on understanding the working conditions of nurses and
Speaker 1: how they need to fix them. They're not listening to
Speaker 1: nurses and solving their problems within the health care system
Speaker 1: exactly right. Executives in the health care system are not
Speaker 1: listening carefully to nurses concerns and acting upon those concerns.
Speaker 1: When nurses tell you they have a problem, they have
Speaker 1: a problem, they're not making it up. And when nurses
Speaker 1: have problems in their workplaces. We've known that patients are
Speaker 1: more likely to die, patients are more likely to have complications,
Speaker 1: patients are more likely to have to stay longer in
Speaker 1: the hospital. None of us want any of that. So
Speaker 1: firstus we have to have our healthcare executives listen deeply
Speaker 1: and carefully to nurses and work very strategically on those problems.
Speaker 1: Then we have a couple of structural things, not very sexy,
Speaker 1: but we still allow many nurses, as you point out,
Speaker 1: to work mandatory overtime. Their boss can come to them
Speaker 1: they've worked at twelve hours shift, it's five o'clock at night,
Speaker 1: they've worked ten hours NonStop, and their boss can come
Speaker 1: to them at five pm and say, guess what, you're
Speaker 1: staying in another four hours. And we don't do that
Speaker 1: to pilots. Your pilot flies you from New York to
Speaker 1: l A. They get off the plane and they go
Speaker 1: home and rest drivers either and they drivers to make
Speaker 1: sure they're not even cheating exactly right. So so we've
Speaker 1: got a couple of structural things like that. We also
Speaker 1: have well, guess what, we're running short on a nurse,
Speaker 1: so you're gonna take another one to three patients. And
Speaker 1: right now in the COVID area, we're seeing that in
Speaker 1: the I c U. I've never heard of that in
Speaker 1: the I c U. And twenty five years of nurse.
Speaker 1: So executives have decided to put the labor problems on
Speaker 1: the backs of nurses rather than solving the underlying problem.
Speaker 1: And I think that problem predated COVID and it's only
Speaker 1: gotten worse d COVID. So if we really focus on
Speaker 1: those issues, we're gonna have a healthy, safe nursing workforce
Speaker 1: that can care for us during COVID and after COVID.
Speaker 1: And if we don't pay attention to that stuff, we're
Speaker 1: going to be in a whole world of hurt. And
Speaker 1: we're going to see more of the stuff that we're
Speaker 1: seeing now, Nurses leaving in droves, too many, too many
Speaker 1: patients to care for, unsafe staffing, etcetera. It's a vicious cycle.
Speaker 1: If we don't break the change, I'm gonna ask a question,
Speaker 1: it's going to seem more of it. But it's from
Speaker 1: a fiscal place. Why would the executives by break the
Speaker 1: backs of the employees whose job it is is to
Speaker 1: help keep the customer A lot like if we're just
Speaker 1: going base level making money in health care, if people die,
Speaker 1: that's not good fiscally for business. So why would we
Speaker 1: create a place where the workers cannot do their job?
Speaker 1: The right, What what is the advantage in an executive
Speaker 1: doing that? Like if we said they're not a sponsor,
Speaker 1: let's just use Amazon for example. Okay, yeah, Amazon is
Speaker 1: gonna pay you as little as possible and not put
Speaker 1: you in the union because it makes them more money
Speaker 1: overworking nurses doesn't make you more money. The patient is
Speaker 1: the patient. The cost just the cost, So why would
Speaker 1: you want the patient to die? Like? What are the
Speaker 1: advantages in the executive infrastructure of a hospital in being
Speaker 1: assholes like this? Well, I have a lot of friends
Speaker 1: who are executive, so let me put that on there,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of that. Then they're cool.
Speaker 1: You know what, we need those other people, right, So
Speaker 1: you know, I think that first of all, a lot
Speaker 1: of the executives are trying to do the right thing,
Speaker 1: but we don't have the incentives lined up. And I
Speaker 1: spoke about this earlier. So Number one, when you, unfortunately
Speaker 1: are in the hospital and you get a bill when
Speaker 1: you go home, do me a favor and look at
Speaker 1: your bill and you tell me. This is a quiz
Speaker 1: for everybody listening. Go take a look at that bill
Speaker 1: and tell me where the bill for nursing services is.
Speaker 1: You know where it is room and board. Nurses are
Speaker 1: part of the room and board, part of a hospital bill.
Speaker 1: So if you have cancer and I'm on college nurse,
Speaker 1: and I am giving you expert care for you leukenia,
Speaker 1: and I am in your room every hour, drawing blood
Speaker 1: and checking your giving you blood products to save your life,
Speaker 1: and giving you antibiotics and all that stuff. And in
Speaker 1: the person next to you or the room down the
Speaker 1: hall has an appendix removed, and they're there for twelve hours,
Speaker 1: and I give them to tile in all and send
Speaker 1: them on their way. The bill for the day is
Speaker 1: the same. So right now, nurses are widgets in the hospital,
Speaker 1: and they are the largest part of the hospital budget.
Speaker 1: And so when times get tough, guess where they're gonna cut.
Speaker 1: Guess where they're going to cut the corner without nurses
Speaker 1: stepping up and saying this is no longer safe, this
Speaker 1: is no longer acceptable. We need a different structure. And
Speaker 1: so it's a it's a tricky thing. It's going to
Speaker 1: be hard to solve. But what I'm what executives can
Speaker 1: do right now is really listening carefully to what their
Speaker 1: nurses are telling them and act on it. And what
Speaker 1: they can do tomorrow is eliminate mandatory over time because
Speaker 1: that's unsafe, and we know it's unsafe, and they can
Speaker 1: work carefully to get those numbers right so that we
Speaker 1: have an adequate number of nurses to care for the
Speaker 1: patients because it's unsustainable. But the primary problem is we
Speaker 1: do not value, either numerically or monetarily, the kind of
Speaker 1: nursing care that patients in the US need in hospitals.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I found researching that you know,
Speaker 1: really struck me was just, you know, not just the
Speaker 1: level of care, but just all of the different types
Speaker 1: of care that nurses do that I don't think we
Speaker 1: really think of that. You know, it's not it is
Speaker 1: drying blood and it is giving medicine, but you're also
Speaker 1: you're helping patients shave. You know, the nurses are the
Speaker 1: ones holding the phones that people can talk to patients. Like.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that if you did put
Speaker 1: them on a hospital bill, it would probably look like
Speaker 1: a CBS receipt, you know, because it's like, all right,
Speaker 1: that's like, you know, maybe maybe we should start, you know,
Speaker 1: putting those on so people can actually understand that that
Speaker 1: type of care because or talking to the doctor and
Speaker 1: the pharmacist when you're not even the room to say
Speaker 1: you just ordered an errant medication that's going to put
Speaker 1: this patient at risk. Do you really want to do that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Or you know. So there's all this work happening behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, this air traffic control function. Nobody sees it,
Speaker 1: and nobody's paying for it. It's just happening, and it's
Speaker 1: part of my work. And so you can either have
Speaker 1: me overloaded where I'm trying to do that for too
Speaker 1: many planes, too many patients in this example, or we
Speaker 1: can do it in a way where I have the
Speaker 1: time and space to really care for patients or teach
Speaker 1: them about their new leukemia diagnosis or their new surgery
Speaker 1: whatever they just had done. So you get what you
Speaker 1: pay for. And right now we're lumping this into room
Speaker 1: and board. It's basically a Hyatt bill. Sorry if they're
Speaker 1: a sponsor of yours, but you know we don't. I
Speaker 1: love this idea of the scene because if we did
Speaker 1: that for a nurse, what did you do for this
Speaker 1: patient for twelve hours? It would be a sicker tape parade.
Speaker 1: Because that's the thing that I think is interesting as well,
Speaker 1: because it's all hidden under room and board. I don't
Speaker 1: even think Americans even know what We don't know everything
Speaker 1: that a nurse to do. Like, all you know is
Speaker 1: that the nurse is the person who is in charge
Speaker 1: of apparently from what you're saying, Dr Freeze, everything from
Speaker 1: medicine and the right dosage to batteries for my TV remote.
Speaker 1: Which is always my concern when I'm visiting someone in
Speaker 1: the hospital is that the television has an inadequate amount
Speaker 1: of channels. But um, what I'm gathering is that that's
Speaker 1: probably not a bigger issue in the eyes of the
Speaker 1: administration right now. Well, you know, if you're visiting, you
Speaker 1: shouldn't be inconvenience if you can't access cable. So what
Speaker 1: is the point of visiting you in the hospital if
Speaker 1: I can't watch Comedy Central Wink wink, shameless plug. So then,
Speaker 1: with all of that happening, Madeleine, how do you all?
Speaker 1: It seems like and I could be wrong, Dr Freeze
Speaker 1: jumping if I am, but it would seem like the
Speaker 1: issue of the stress of this job and with the
Speaker 1: pandemic did um to morale. It's also somewhat of a
Speaker 1: if not a newer issue, definitely more prominent and more
Speaker 1: prevalent now, So how did you all decide on how
Speaker 1: to sparse that into the story. I think the challenge
Speaker 1: with trying to put together a piece like this is
Speaker 1: that you have to figure out when you're going to
Speaker 1: make jokes, but also when you're going to take it seriously.
Speaker 1: I would say the best asset that we have, I mean,
Speaker 1: and you know this at the Daily Show, Roy, is that, like,
Speaker 1: we just have a lot of I mean, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of hands on these pieces. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: people working on them. It's a really collaborative effort. And
Speaker 1: so one of the people I mentioned above, the very
Speaker 1: talented people, is one of our producers, Allison, who did
Speaker 1: a lot of work on this piece. And when we
Speaker 1: were talking about burnout specifically for nurses, which again is
Speaker 1: not a funny topic, it's very serious, it's very depressing.
Speaker 1: But she found a clip of a nurse speaking about
Speaker 1: how you know, when they're talking about their burnout, and
Speaker 1: the solution by there, you know, I guess the hospital
Speaker 1: executives was to kind of throw a pizza party. People
Speaker 1: just still honestly do not understand how severe this is,
Speaker 1: how bad staffing for nursing is when tom's are tough
Speaker 1: and things are getting rough, they'll have a pizza party.
Speaker 1: You know, you guys are spread really really thin, and
Speaker 1: we can't get new nurses, but here's pizza. Okay. No, people, No,
Speaker 1: you cannot solve a nurse shortage with a pizza party.
Speaker 1: In fact, it's probably gonna make the problem worse because
Speaker 1: it's the lost food you want to feed someone who
Speaker 1: needs to stay awake for a double shift, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's it's finding things like that to still be
Speaker 1: able to talk about an issue. Pizza is probably a
Speaker 1: good problem solving until about the eighth grade. After that,
Speaker 1: you gotta be taking us at minimum to cheesecake factory
Speaker 1: after the break. Dr Freeze, I want to throw that
Speaker 1: same question at you because I know that you have
Speaker 1: a lot of colleagues that are still in a lot
Speaker 1: of these you know, hotspots, and are dealing with all
Speaker 1: of the problems that you're talking about. And I'm very
Speaker 1: curious not only about the mental health issues that are
Speaker 1: happening right now within our within our hospital system with nurses,
Speaker 1: but also what are y'all telling the new nurses that
Speaker 1: are coming out of how do you convins to take
Speaker 1: this job. What the nursing recruitment post to look like?
Speaker 1: This is beyond the scenes. We'll be right back. I
Speaker 1: have a lot of questions for you. I'm sorry, and
Speaker 1: we're live here outside the Perez family home, just waiting
Speaker 1: for the And there they go, almost on time. There's more.
Speaker 1: Mom is coming out the front door, strong with a
Speaker 1: double armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags.
Speaker 1: Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper
Speaker 1: bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. But Mom
Speaker 1: has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler.
Speaker 1: And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about
Speaker 1: nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat.
Speaker 1: Dad zips the bag clothes and they're off, But looks
Speaker 1: like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on
Speaker 1: the roof of the car and there it goes. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't
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Speaker 1: Dr Freeze, you've spoken about the mental health challenges that
Speaker 1: are faced by nurses. What makes these challenges so acute?
Speaker 1: You know, what is it about the job that is
Speaker 1: creating all of this stress? And how is that affecting
Speaker 1: the nursing population, you know, even by gender. So it's
Speaker 1: a really important topic because I think the take home
Speaker 1: message for your readers, we're all spending a lot of
Speaker 1: time worrying about nurses right now, and probably everyone listening
Speaker 1: has a family member, a friend who's a nurse just
Speaker 1: because of the numbers. Were four million of us out
Speaker 1: there in the US, right But but the big take
Speaker 1: home mess to for everybody to know is nurses were
Speaker 1: in trouble before the pandemic. So our team at the
Speaker 1: University of Michigan had done some work to understand and
Speaker 1: I'm going to just give folks mention that we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about some unpleasant topics like suicide, just to
Speaker 1: prepare people. We actually did some work to show that
Speaker 1: um death by suicide were two times higher among female
Speaker 1: nurses than the rest of the US population. And that
Speaker 1: data went through before the pandemic, and the curve was
Speaker 1: like this for the last eleven years that we studied it.
Speaker 1: It was a steady increase over time. The all time
Speaker 1: peak was the when we have the latest data that
Speaker 1: to our group, another group, Now you could say that's
Speaker 1: still very rare, you know, but I mean I would
Speaker 1: say every nurse we lose is you know, a tragedy.
Speaker 1: And if the numbers are still rising, rising numbers, rising numbers, right,
Speaker 1: so it's a it's alarming finding. But the other point
Speaker 1: is survey by the Mayo Clinic just showed that even
Speaker 1: thinking about suicide and self harm was on the rise
Speaker 1: during the same period. So, you know, not thankfully, not
Speaker 1: everyone is going to have a tragic event, but nurses
Speaker 1: have had behavioral and mental health challenges before the pandemic.
Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of things going on. Number
Speaker 1: one is the work is stressful. We've talked about mandatory
Speaker 1: overtime and shifts and workload. The other thing we haven't
Speaker 1: talked a lot about is violence, verbal and physical violence
Speaker 1: against nurses is continuing to rise, was rising before the pandemic,
Speaker 1: and we do not have a strategy in the US
Speaker 1: to control that. So nurses are in an in an unsafe,
Speaker 1: hostile environment for their work, and then think about what's
Speaker 1: going on around them. Plus, of the US nurse population
Speaker 1: is female. They're often caregivers at work and their caregivers
Speaker 1: at home for family members, for kids, for etcetera. So
Speaker 1: you put all that together in a tough work environment,
Speaker 1: and you you can imagine why people are having stress.
Speaker 1: The other piece we know about nurses and other healthcare
Speaker 1: workers is it's very hard for them to seek health
Speaker 1: care services for mental health because of the stigma involved.
Speaker 1: They don't want to be seen that they can't handle
Speaker 1: their work. They don't want to be seen as a
Speaker 1: patient for that problem. And the police and pride that
Speaker 1: comes with the position that white wall is. You know,
Speaker 1: we'll call it a white wall of silence instead of
Speaker 1: the blue line. You know, there's we don't want to
Speaker 1: talk about this stuff because we want to be seen
Speaker 1: as professionals. We can handle our stuff. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's like diabetes. You can't just wash this away. If
Speaker 1: you have a mental health condition, or you have a
Speaker 1: substance use issue or whatever you have, there's no thinking
Speaker 1: that a healthcare worker is is less immune to that problem.
Speaker 1: And they need as much help, if not different kind
Speaker 1: of help than anyone else. And they repeatedly say in
Speaker 1: surveys it is hard for them to find services that
Speaker 1: understand their needs. They feel they can't do it confidentially.
Speaker 1: They're they're worried about retribution, they're worried about getting fired,
Speaker 1: they're worried about losing their license. So until we solve
Speaker 1: that problem, we're not going to solve the mental health
Speaker 1: crisis among nurses. The final point I want to add
Speaker 1: on this is some of my colleagues work, Dr Christian
Speaker 1: Show at u c l A has shown in a
Speaker 1: survey that nurses have a lot. In a large survey
Speaker 1: of nurses and the Nurses Health Study, a substantial proportion
Speaker 1: of them had childhood trauma, physical, verbal, sexual, trauma in
Speaker 1: their past, far higher than the US population. So we're
Speaker 1: trying to put all of this together, but we're flying
Speaker 1: blind because we really don't have good understanding of what
Speaker 1: the exact issues are. We know what the clumps of
Speaker 1: things are, but we don't know really how they fit
Speaker 1: together to create a problem where a nurse is really
Speaker 1: in trouble. So then you we're dealing with a workforce
Speaker 1: that themselves may be broken and unhealed from their own
Speaker 1: traumas while also working in a stressful situation to heal
Speaker 1: everybody else. Now, then when we talk about just the
Speaker 1: workforce in general, why has it been so difficult? And
Speaker 1: this it's just me a layman. This is a guy
Speaker 1: who I've gone to the hospital a couple of times.
Speaker 1: Really good blankets at the hospital. If you could steal one,
Speaker 1: please do yourself a favor and get you one of
Speaker 1: those nice hospitals. Um, as a layman, why can't we
Speaker 1: just hire more nurses? That's just part of the issue,
Speaker 1: Like that's always been the approach to if we want
Speaker 1: to use policing isn't a one to one, but that's
Speaker 1: always been something where that's a job with decent paper,
Speaker 1: decent over time, decent retirement, So you don't really have
Speaker 1: the bigger issue in recruiting over there. Why why can't
Speaker 1: we just add more nurses to the workforce, And why
Speaker 1: hasn't that been um a solution? Yeah, so a couple
Speaker 1: of things. So we need special training, right for nurses.
Speaker 1: You can't just kind of walk in from another sector
Speaker 1: and become a nurse. There's there's you know, at least
Speaker 1: two up to four years of training and then you
Speaker 1: need extensive on the job training. And the problem is
Speaker 1: we have a pipeline problem. So you you we joked earlier,
Speaker 1: you know, how do you get people into the field.
Speaker 1: We turn away eight to ten qualify people for nurse
Speaker 1: every nursing school position, every student position, there are eight
Speaker 1: to tend people behind them that we turn away because
Speaker 1: we don't have enough capacity. Why don't we have enough capacity.
Speaker 1: We don't have enough faculty. We don't have enough people
Speaker 1: to teach both in the school of nursing and in
Speaker 1: the hospital. Those expert nurses who are leaving, we need
Speaker 1: those folks to help teach our students. So when we
Speaker 1: have experts leave, we don't have enough people to teach
Speaker 1: our students. And we don't have enough faculty, we can't
Speaker 1: teach our students, and nurses make more money practicing than
Speaker 1: they do teaching. We have an aligned the incentive to say,
Speaker 1: if you want to be if you're an expert nurse,
Speaker 1: we want you to be an expert teacher, and we're
Speaker 1: going to reward you for that. Instead we say, oh,
Speaker 1: you're gonna take a pay cut. So how's that going
Speaker 1: to work. Also, I'm wondering Dr Freeze if there's something
Speaker 1: with a I mean, obviously there's a there's a shortage,
Speaker 1: which is a critical issue, but in terms of like
Speaker 1: a distribution, because I mean, I think one of the
Speaker 1: things about being in New York is that I kind
Speaker 1: of take it for granted that like we do, like
Speaker 1: we have a lot of hospitals here, you know, like
Speaker 1: you can you can uber to a hospital, But there's
Speaker 1: a lot of more rural parts of the country that
Speaker 1: a lot you know, a lot of nurses have been
Speaker 1: lured away to be traveling nurses, right because it pays
Speaker 1: more money, and you know, we don't hold that against them, obviously,
Speaker 1: but those shortages are so much different than here where
Speaker 1: I don't think we would feel it. What is the
Speaker 1: difference between what a travel nurse is just someone who
Speaker 1: comes in and they're higher privately by a particular hospital. Hey,
Speaker 1: come be a nurse here for a little while. Contract
Speaker 1: for higher bouts. Usually it's like six to thirteen week contracts,
Speaker 1: and so you pay a print, they pay, they get
Speaker 1: a premium pay, they get paid to relocate, and they're
Speaker 1: there for six to thirteen weeks, and they typically are
Speaker 1: placed in the shortest staffed units. You know, they're filled,
Speaker 1: they're filling holes. And so people will say, I'll go
Speaker 1: in in, I'll do this. I would call it joking
Speaker 1: lee hazard pay. I'm gonna do this for for six
Speaker 1: to thirteen weeks and then I'm gonna leave and then
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go on to somewhere else. Some people stay, um,
Speaker 1: but it's really to fill that critical whole um. So
Speaker 1: that's the that's the travel nursing thing, and what we're
Speaker 1: seeing right now, the big perfuffle is we've got expert
Speaker 1: nurses who have been in the same unit with a
Speaker 1: lot of expertise for ten twelve years caring for these patients,
Speaker 1: and then a travel nurse comes in and is making
Speaker 1: twice the salary for that That blitz of time, and
Speaker 1: so the ten twelve year veterans looking around saying, why
Speaker 1: am I staying here? What's this about? So that's the
Speaker 1: newer phenomena that we're seeing. You know, you're you're you're
Speaker 1: putting me through the ringer, you're giving me lukewarm pepperoni pizza.
Speaker 1: The one today I heard is coloring books. So congratulations,
Speaker 1: you're getting a coloring book. So, you know, the list
Speaker 1: goes on and then I look around and there's this
Speaker 1: there's this person from a travel agency who's gonna be
Speaker 1: here for six to thirteen weeks, making double sometimes triple
Speaker 1: my pay. Why would I stay? And I don't have
Speaker 1: a good answer for them. I don't have a good answer.
Speaker 1: So then you look at that's like private sector security
Speaker 1: who gets sent over to the Middle East and fight
Speaker 1: alongside our troops and the troops are like what, like, yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: and my equipment is better than yours. So that's that's wild.
Speaker 1: So when we when we look at this madeline, and
Speaker 1: we haven't even had time to even unpack what all
Speaker 1: of these stresses on the nurses and taking on too
Speaker 1: many patients, what that means for the patients who are
Speaker 1: actually the ones at the center of all this and
Speaker 1: the ones who need to care. How do you and
Speaker 1: the writers how you bringing levit? Look, I'm just be honest,
Speaker 1: this ship is sad. It's very sad because it's very real.
Speaker 1: How do you all balance the jokes what we want,
Speaker 1: which when you want? How you balance deciding when to
Speaker 1: make someone laugh versus when to make them feel. This
Speaker 1: definitely felt more like a feeling piece to me. But
Speaker 1: I'd lean heavily on the writers for that. I think
Speaker 1: they have more of a burden to you know, write
Speaker 1: the script around the story that we're trying to tell.
Speaker 1: But it's difficult. I mean it's difficult. You know, sometimes
Speaker 1: things just you know, they're not funny, but at the
Speaker 1: same time find you know, finding pockets where we can
Speaker 1: actually laugh about something is really important. Because I was
Speaker 1: thinking about Dr Frees what you're saying earlier about the
Speaker 1: mental health challenges, and you know, one of the things
Speaker 1: that I hope pieces like this do is, you know,
Speaker 1: show the show the human side of somebody. Because if
Speaker 1: if you can relate to someone and see that they're human,
Speaker 1: then there is room for a comedy and there's also
Speaker 1: room for you know, having other feelings. But I think,
Speaker 1: you know, thinking about how we talk about nurses and
Speaker 1: how we kind of put them as heroes and maybe
Speaker 1: how that actually isn't that helpful for people who are
Speaker 1: trying to seek mental health services, because that might just
Speaker 1: be a bigger burden on somebody. Yeah, one of the
Speaker 1: senior nursing assistance I learned my craft from twenty five
Speaker 1: years ago. Early on you said to me, if you're
Speaker 1: not laughing, you're crying. So having a bit of lightness
Speaker 1: about and we see the pizza rolled in and we
Speaker 1: all just kind of roll our eyes and oh, well,
Speaker 1: isn't that nice? And thank you? Or you know, so
Speaker 1: we understand that, and I think we appreciate when people
Speaker 1: are really supportive. You know, my heart went out. We
Speaker 1: saw signs in the parking lot at Michigan when people
Speaker 1: came and you know, supported us, and you know, as
Speaker 1: I was driving and I'm like, okay, now, is everybody
Speaker 1: going to sign up for the vaccine? Is everybody going
Speaker 1: to do their part and stay safe and stay home
Speaker 1: and stay out of trouble while they're clanging their pots
Speaker 1: and pans and while they're putting signs out, And that's
Speaker 1: the piece that I think a lot of nurses are
Speaker 1: still struggling with like, thanks for that, but we're asking
Speaker 1: you to do these two or three other things that
Speaker 1: are really a pain in the butt. We get it,
Speaker 1: but they're going to keep you safe. And I think
Speaker 1: that's where a lot of nurses are kind of you know,
Speaker 1: looking up up at the sky. Are you wondering what's
Speaker 1: going on here? I think that's the mystery. You are
Speaker 1: a hero and I can't wait to see you in
Speaker 1: two weeks when I catch COVID with my untroxcinated lungs.
Speaker 1: And that's how badly I want to meet you. And
Speaker 1: you've just touched on something as well, Dr Freeze. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about it after the break here, because
Speaker 1: when we talk about people refusing the vaccine, there's people
Speaker 1: on both sides of that issue, and I want to
Speaker 1: get your opinion on people in the healthcare industry who
Speaker 1: are refusing the vaccination and these higher ups, some of
Speaker 1: whom that are your friends and very cool, whether or
Speaker 1: not these vaccine mandates are the right thing to do
Speaker 1: in a time where you're short staffed. Uh, this is
Speaker 1: beyond the scenes, and uh we'll be right back. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna claim a pot for you, dr Freeze. Let me
Speaker 1: go get a pot? Right, Where's my pizza? If I
Speaker 1: could be you and you could be me for just
Speaker 1: one hour, if you could find a way to get
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Speaker 1: out in the Shoes. Have you ever wanted to learn
Speaker 1: about cryptocurrency but don't know where to start, Well, the
Speaker 1: Coin Bureau Podcast is here to help. My name is Guy.
Speaker 1: I'm the host of the biggest crypto channel on YouTube,
Speaker 1: and I've persuaded my old friend Mike to sit down
Speaker 1: and talk crypto with me. Together, we're going to explore
Speaker 1: this crazy world right from the beginning. Sound good, Mike,
Speaker 1: It's going to be a lot of fun. We'll cover
Speaker 1: all things crypto, will make sense of the jargon, and
Speaker 1: cut through all the techie stuff to bring you everything
Speaker 1: you need to know. Yeah, let's go less on the techie,
Speaker 1: more on the sex. I had to go back and
Speaker 1: think about money in general and how I understood it
Speaker 1: and challenge my conceptions of it. And once I got
Speaker 1: that all square, I found that bitcoin and crypto exactly
Speaker 1: exactly create money. Doesn't have to be backed by gold
Speaker 1: or any other asset to have guns, just guns. Listen
Speaker 1: to the Coin Bureau podcast on the I Heart radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Beyond the scenes,
Speaker 1: we are discussing the crisis that has struck our health
Speaker 1: care systems. Specifically are men and women that are nurses
Speaker 1: and apparently, unbeknownst to me, Madeleine pizza has been one
Speaker 1: of the biggest solutions now since clearly pizza has been
Speaker 1: a bridge in boost morale. Dr freeze, Do we have
Speaker 1: to go to meet Lover's Pizza to get our health
Speaker 1: care workers to accept the vaccine? Uh? Stuff? Chriss? What
Speaker 1: do we need to do? Set up to go fund?
Speaker 1: I see pepperonis that have the oil in it, Like,
Speaker 1: what is it? Little? You know, I'm a scientist, so
Speaker 1: uh you know, I'm a scientist. So I'd like to
Speaker 1: do a randomized trial of you know, different pizza compared
Speaker 1: to coloring books, compared to massage, chairs, you know, and
Speaker 1: kind of just see which one of those, uh, when
Speaker 1: we can throw in pot clanging at the same time,
Speaker 1: maybe we'll maybe we'll hit bingo. I don't know. The
Speaker 1: dwindling number of nurses means that their job is only
Speaker 1: getting harder, and as an extra insult, some of their
Speaker 1: colleagues are abandon ship for a much stupid a reason
Speaker 1: at a time when they're already staffing shortages. Some nurses
Speaker 1: are threatening to quit your forced to get the COVID vaccine.
Speaker 1: One hospital in upstate New York will stop delivering babies
Speaker 1: after workers resigned over vaccine mandates. Houston Hospital System has
Speaker 1: fired or accepted the resignations of more than one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty nurses and other staff members who refused mandatory
Speaker 1: COVID vaccinations. Show of hands, how many of you have
Speaker 1: gotten a COVID vaccine? These are four healthcare workers from
Speaker 1: different hospitals in North Carolina. Why not? We don't know
Speaker 1: what the long term side effects are. It also hasn't
Speaker 1: been proven to be effective. The CDC and many public
Speaker 1: health experts say that it's more than affective. I have
Speaker 1: the right to question anybody in this country. I want
Speaker 1: to question You're entitled to an opinion. But these are facts,
Speaker 1: are they though? Are they fact? Wow? Yo, this nurse
Speaker 1: is a genius. Yo. She knows in order to stop
Speaker 1: an unvaccinated person, you must first think like an unvaccinated person.
Speaker 1: In order to kill COVID, you must first die of COVID.
Speaker 1: It's so obvious. Now, what do you make of healthcare
Speaker 1: workers who have decided to decline the vaccine? Do you
Speaker 1: think that reflects poorly on the healthcare system? I guess
Speaker 1: there are hypocrisy in that, and that you, being one
Speaker 1: who cares about everyone's health, not doing the thing that
Speaker 1: the health care system says is healthy. So I've spent
Speaker 1: a decent amount of time first understanding the science behind
Speaker 1: these vaccines. They've they have. The science behind these vaccines
Speaker 1: has been around for two decades um, but it hasn't
Speaker 1: been very publicly shared and hasn't been really well understood, right,
Speaker 1: And so the entire US population is trying to get
Speaker 1: up to speed with with what we understand about these
Speaker 1: vaccines and why they are safe and clearly why they're effective.
Speaker 1: And just like the US population, there is a subgroup
Speaker 1: within the health care sector who have questions and concerns.
Speaker 1: I don't like to use the term anti vax or
Speaker 1: vaccine hesitant. What the way I like to frame it
Speaker 1: is people have unanswered questions. And the way I like
Speaker 1: to approach that is come to people and have open
Speaker 1: conversations where I'm not their boss, I am their peer,
Speaker 1: I am their colleague trying to answer questions. And you know,
Speaker 1: when I staff, I usually come in a little bit
Speaker 1: early and spend some time with the nurses and just
Speaker 1: have informal conversations about what's going on and answer to
Speaker 1: their questions because there's a lot of uncertainty out there,
Speaker 1: even if you're a healthcare provider. It's literally changing every
Speaker 1: day for a lot of the recommendations. So what I've
Speaker 1: come across are some very common questions about long term safety,
Speaker 1: about nursing or childbearing issues. And the way I've tried
Speaker 1: to tackle that is get the experts to those colleagues
Speaker 1: who have questions, rather than command and control, rather than bosses,
Speaker 1: rather than punitive strategies, is to have a conversation. And
Speaker 1: for folks to do that. And you know, I remember
Speaker 1: a particular nurse, not that I worked directly with this person,
Speaker 1: but someone I know pretty well and new baby and
Speaker 1: a lot of questions and said, you know, I'm just
Speaker 1: not ready yet. And so I could turn that conversation
Speaker 1: off and say alright, good luck, you're on your own
Speaker 1: or whatever. But we've kept the dialogue been and I
Speaker 1: think that's the strategy, is to continue to have a
Speaker 1: dialogue and answer questions. The final thing I'll say about
Speaker 1: this is I think in some ways the media got
Speaker 1: this a bit wrong. They looked at the same statistics
Speaker 1: I did, and they came out with one out of
Speaker 1: however many nurses, nine or ten nurses is decline. It
Speaker 1: will say they'll leave their job or decline the vaccine.
Speaker 1: I saw an overwhelming majority or more of healthcare workers
Speaker 1: are ready to sign up and get the vaccine. And
Speaker 1: then we fast forward that story a few weeks later,
Speaker 1: and what we see is very few people actually leaving
Speaker 1: their jobs because of this. So I we were in
Speaker 1: a unique snapshot in time. It was a highly emotional,
Speaker 1: um challenging period. There's still a lot of un answered questions,
Speaker 1: and I felt like as we were watching that story
Speaker 1: unfold and time, we got a little ahead of ourselves
Speaker 1: and not really stressing the positives. And then following up
Speaker 1: to say, well, actually, how many people really are going
Speaker 1: to journalism? The NYPD was having was going to have
Speaker 1: all of these offices and ended up being like thirty exactly,
Speaker 1: it's going to be thousands, and murder will reign supreme.
Speaker 1: Isn't like there are tens of us? Yeah? Uh, I
Speaker 1: did have a question for you, Dr Freeze. You know
Speaker 1: one of the things that we touched on in the
Speaker 1: piece was I guess how burned out nurses affect patients. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, cancers don't stop just because there's a pandemic
Speaker 1: other things. You know, you don't stop breaking bones, you know,
Speaker 1: everything else doesn't stop, Like the hospital system doesn't stop,
Speaker 1: and people don't stop getting sick. So like, how is that?
Speaker 1: I guess how how have you seen the knock on
Speaker 1: effects of all of this happening? Yeah? So two things
Speaker 1: on that. One is that even if you're not caring
Speaker 1: for COVID patients, you saw a dramatic change in your
Speaker 1: work during this period. That continues because your patients are
Speaker 1: coming to you with more complicated problems because they couldn't
Speaker 1: get their cancer screening and so now they present with
Speaker 1: a cancer at a later stage, or they have a
Speaker 1: complication that we couldn't manage before they got diagnosed. Number one.
Speaker 1: Number two, we had a lot of visitor restrictions, and
Speaker 1: so we didn't have family members and loved ones who
Speaker 1: could provide that extra emotional support for patients in the hospital.
Speaker 1: And as you said, we had nurses with face times
Speaker 1: and yeah, no, no one's checking the batteries. Uh, no
Speaker 1: one's making sure the channel's on the right channel at
Speaker 1: you know, nine tenths, ten nine cents or whatever. U.
Speaker 1: So those pieces add up. I mean, I don't want
Speaker 1: to trivialize that. You know, when you are alone and
Speaker 1: scared in a hospital, or you know, in my in
Speaker 1: my family member's case, you know, they had to go
Speaker 1: they have very complicated diabetes. They had to go to
Speaker 1: the office by themselves. Their loved one couldn't come with
Speaker 1: them to make sure everything was being monitored properly and carefully,
Speaker 1: and they follow up with questions. So everything got more complicated,
Speaker 1: and and much of that stays to this day. And
Speaker 1: then for the patients, as we said, I can't or
Speaker 1: doesn't wait, and heart attacks still happen, and in my case,
Speaker 1: broken ankles still happen, and so I needed to seek
Speaker 1: care in this pandemic, and you you are worried that
Speaker 1: are am I going to get the care that I need?
Speaker 1: Is everything going to work out? In my case, it
Speaker 1: worked out beautifully. I couldn't have been more comfortable or
Speaker 1: treated better. But but we have seen very clearly that
Speaker 1: some care is falling through the cracks and continues to
Speaker 1: do so. So that's bad for patients, and then it's
Speaker 1: also bad for healthcare workers because they can't give their
Speaker 1: very best, and so it continues to pour salt on
Speaker 1: that wound that we're in this vicious cycle that we
Speaker 1: can't seem to quite get out of. And I'm not
Speaker 1: able to give my very best to my patients for
Speaker 1: reasons that are really outside of my control. And I
Speaker 1: think that's always been hard for me as a nurse.
Speaker 1: When I know something could have gone better but it
Speaker 1: couldn't because of something beyond my control. That's very hard
Speaker 1: to live with day in and day out. So then
Speaker 1: do you think things right now dr Freezer train being
Speaker 1: the right way? Are we still kind of in a
Speaker 1: bit of a holding pattern where it could still go
Speaker 1: either way right now? So I think we have a
Speaker 1: mixed picture. The one thing that I'm amazed at um.
Speaker 1: You know, a few weeks ago to transfer patient to
Speaker 1: the intensive care unit for management of their their cancer.
Speaker 1: They had a problem with their cancer complication, but there
Speaker 1: were COVID patients in a separate part of that ward.
Speaker 1: And the amount of intensive, unbelievable care that nurses and
Speaker 1: doctors and respiratory therapists and pharmacists are giving you these patients.
Speaker 1: We know far much more on how to treat patients
Speaker 1: with COVID, and we are we are doing a better
Speaker 1: job of managing COVID because we've learned a lot in
Speaker 1: the last two years. And that's a tribute to the
Speaker 1: folks on the front line and the researchers who have
Speaker 1: helped do that. So that's a positive. We have very
Speaker 1: safe and effective vaccines and we now basically you can
Speaker 1: walk in almost anywhere you want and you can get them.
Speaker 1: So those are triumphs and we should celebrate them. And
Speaker 1: at the same time, our nurses, doctors, pharmacists, respiratory therapists,
Speaker 1: other folks have kept America's heartbeat going for all their
Speaker 1: non COVID stuff for the most part. But but but
Speaker 1: the net is fraid, the net is very fraid, and
Speaker 1: I'm very worried that there is probably a group of
Speaker 1: folks who are falling through the cracks, either because they
Speaker 1: can't get in for care or the care that they
Speaker 1: get is suboptimal because we'restrained so hard. And what I
Speaker 1: really worry about is we're not going to fix this
Speaker 1: problem as COVID eases, We're gonna say, well, back to normal,
Speaker 1: no problem. We have to learn from this and we
Speaker 1: have to start making the changes now so that patients
Speaker 1: today are safer and patients six nine months, nine months
Speaker 1: a year from now, regardless of COVID or otherwise, they're safer.
Speaker 1: And I feel like we're going to forget that. Is
Speaker 1: there anything that the general public can do, because so
Speaker 1: much of what you're talking about is it seems to
Speaker 1: be in my opinion, just from my perspective, again, as
Speaker 1: a guy who only goes to hospitals to still blankets. No,
Speaker 1: I don't take them like mantal and don't clean it
Speaker 1: up for me and still them. These are very wonderful blankets.
Speaker 1: As a person who's just on the outside looking in,
Speaker 1: it seems that a lot of the solutions here lie
Speaker 1: within the institution. But how do I, as just Joe
Speaker 1: Blow citizen, What can I do to help alleviate some
Speaker 1: of these challenges? Is it looking at what our elected
Speaker 1: officials are doing? How much does politic? Is there someone
Speaker 1: I need to vote out? Like? What can do I
Speaker 1: show up to the hospital and try to protest? Like
Speaker 1: what can we do as regular people to help be
Speaker 1: a part of the solution on this issue. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: a couple of things. First of all, it's not just
Speaker 1: the blankets. The real money is the warm blankets. So
Speaker 1: make sure you ask for that next time. Oh nice,
Speaker 1: it will change your life. It will change your life.
Speaker 1: So thank you all. Thank You're very welcome for that tip.
Speaker 1: So what can the public do? A couple of things.
Speaker 1: One is, if you get great care at your facility,
Speaker 1: right the CEO of the hospital and mention the people
Speaker 1: who cared for you by name and tell them what
Speaker 1: a great job they did. And if you saw quality
Speaker 1: of care concerns, if you heard about mandatory over time
Speaker 1: or unsafe staffing, put that into and say, hey, this
Speaker 1: is not what I expect from my community hospital because
Speaker 1: they are accountable to the public. Most of our hospitals
Speaker 1: in the country are nonprofit and they're supposed to serve
Speaker 1: the community, so they need to respond to you. If
Speaker 1: you know a hospital executive, you can say, what are
Speaker 1: you doing to keep your nurses safe? And the answer
Speaker 1: shouldn't be pizza parties or coloring books. The answers should
Speaker 1: be eliminating mandatory over time, humane staffing levels, and listening
Speaker 1: to nurses and acting on their issues. And do you
Speaker 1: have a safety committee for nursing and healthcare workers? We
Speaker 1: have patient safety committees in every hospital. Do we have
Speaker 1: a group of experts focused on healthcare workers safety? Missing piece? Finally,
Speaker 1: for the policy piece, a couple of points. Every state
Speaker 1: healthcare most hospital issues are managed at the state level.
Speaker 1: Moving throughout the country is legislation on um panalizing verbal
Speaker 1: and physical abuses towards healthcare workers. Zero tolerance. You hit
Speaker 1: or strike a nurse, or you call him a name,
Speaker 1: you're out, full stop. We're not gonna. We're not gonna.
Speaker 1: You know, with limited circumstances, you are we we are
Speaker 1: not obligated to treat you, and you can be charged
Speaker 1: with a with a crime. Um also mandatory staff, mandatory overtime,
Speaker 1: and staffing ratios that are humane and safe. There's legislation
Speaker 1: in many states California has a staffing mandate. Uh. Some
Speaker 1: states are working on banning mandatory overtime. We know those
Speaker 1: work that keeps not only nurses safe, but it keeps
Speaker 1: patients safe. So so those are the couple of things.
Speaker 1: And then the final thing at the federal level, we
Speaker 1: talked about the nursing pipeline for faculty. We don't have
Speaker 1: enough funding to incentivize expert nurses to either stay at
Speaker 1: the bedside to teach, or to teach in nursing school
Speaker 1: And if we want more nurses, that's where we need
Speaker 1: to start. And that's a solvable problem. That's a we
Speaker 1: have money, right, I hope we have money. That's a
Speaker 1: money problem that we can solve in our nursing schools.
Speaker 1: You know, we can work on our back end to
Speaker 1: make it work that we can add, you know, bring
Speaker 1: more of those people in that we're turning away year
Speaker 1: after year after year. Well, I'm happy that you are
Speaker 1: a nurse educator and that you're a nurse, and that
Speaker 1: you're a doctor of nursing because with a name like
Speaker 1: you know, Dr Freeze, you easily could have been a
Speaker 1: villain or some sort of comic book person that wreak
Speaker 1: havoc on the city, but instead you reek love. Dr
Speaker 1: Christopher Freese, thank you so much for going beyond the
Speaker 1: scenes with us today, and Madeline, I will see you
Speaker 1: again on year I don't know, see the next pizza party, right,
Speaker 1: just kid? Thank you all. Hey, listen to the Daily
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