1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to talking politics. And what a week it was? 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: If it felt like last week with those Democratic election 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: wins in New Jersey, New York, Virginia, California went out 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: with a bang. This week with the Dems essentially caving 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: on their ACA demands and agreeing to vote to end 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: the longest government shutdown in history. 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: Went out with a whimper. 8 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: Regardless of where you stand, whatever your party, the energy 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: of these past two weeks could not have been different. 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: And covering it, trust me, we feel it too. Last 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: week I was running around New York City. I did 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: seven hours of live election coverage on election night, I 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: filed dozens of stories, spoke to some very excited, motivated Democrats. 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: This week I covered the collapse of all that momentum 15 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: after eight Senate Democrats agreed to a deal with Republicans 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: that would punt the discussion of ending Obamacare tax credits. 17 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: After agreeing to reopen the government, I spoke to some 18 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: very angry and annoyed Democrats. See how much can change 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: in a week? The government shut down was painful, but 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: was it productive for anyone? I'm gonna give you my 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: piping hot take in a few but first, let's get 22 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: to the interview, and it's. 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 2: A good one. 24 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: Today, I'm thrilled to bring on a former colleague, someone 25 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: I got to know briefly while he was at CNN. 26 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 1: Now you can catch him on the Native Land pod 27 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: on iHeart with our friends Angela Raye and Tiffany Cross 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: and now Okari Sellers. He was the mayor of Tallahassee, 29 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: the Democratic nominee for governor of Florida in twenty eighteen. 30 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 2: Welcome Andrew Gillam. 31 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 3: What's up, Essie. 32 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 4: I'm real mad that you celebrated last week's wins with 33 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 4: sluckin and like you give me the doldrum. 34 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: I know, I know, this is the worst we got 35 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: the fun. This is not the fun week she had 36 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: the fun week. You have to not fun week. Yeah, 37 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: it's just I don't make the rules. It's just how 38 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: it happens. But it's really nice to see you. 39 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 3: It's been to see you. It has been a while. 40 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 4: And yeah, by time I see and it was brief, 41 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 4: I was like a year. And even so we never 42 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 4: got like paneled together. 43 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: We never got to like get a drink or like hang. 44 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: But it was really nice to get you, like to 45 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: get to meet you briefly and get to know you 46 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: a little bit. And I've I'm so enjoying the podcast. 47 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: How are you enjoying this, this this new life you have. 48 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: I'm enjoying it. 49 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 4: I mean it's very different obviously from being directly in politics, 50 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 4: being the person in a seat making decisions and that 51 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 4: kind of thing. And Lord said, I want to be governor, 52 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 4: but this is it is different. It would be better 53 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 4: when you when you have spent so much time being 54 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 4: able to take people's complaints and converted into an action 55 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 4: the next day. It's harder to sit back and watch 56 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 4: things go really bad. 57 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: Andrew, it's easier. It's easier. 58 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: I get to come on here complain opine. Yeah translated new, 59 00:02:58,360 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: I don't have to do anything about it. 60 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 3: See yeah. Yeah. In some ways they might. 61 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: Be less gratifying, but it is easier than having to 62 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: solve problems. 63 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 5: You know what. 64 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 3: I would agree to that, Yeah, it is easier. It 65 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 3: is the easier thing to do, you. 66 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: Know, And that it's so funny you say that because 67 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: and this isn't actually part of the interview, but I'm 68 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: really glad you said that, because I feel that angst 69 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: a lot, and especially recently when things feel so unsolvable 70 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: and my only job is to like talk about how 71 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: unsolvable things are. It feels like, oh, I could be 72 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: doing so much. 73 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 3: More right right right? 74 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: Or like why are. 75 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: People tuning in if I don't have the solutions, I 76 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: can't even offer solutions. 77 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, they want to be in community. They want 78 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 4: to be in community, and they're not by themselves. 79 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, Andrew, You're exactly right. They just want to be 80 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: heard and felt and seen. 81 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 3: Yep. 82 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: And I was told by someone kind of recently, like 83 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: take that burden off, Like no one is expecting you 84 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: to solve the world's problems on a podcast or on 85 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: a substack or in a column. But I feel that 86 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: urgency as well. Yeah, I totally know how you feel. 87 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, the urgency of it, right, especially you know, raising 88 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 4: three kids and being you know, it's enough to already 89 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 4: wear them outside your body because anything can happen to 90 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 4: them and all you want to do is protect them. 91 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 4: But then you see like the world that you want 92 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 4: for them being. 93 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 3: Shifted in all the ways that you can't control. And yeah, 94 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: it judges me crazy. 95 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: Anxiety therapy they First of. 96 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 3: All, I think therapy ought to be mandatory. But I 97 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 3: think we're all off topic. 98 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we're on topic. We are on the top, 99 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: We're on the only topic that matters. 100 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 4: I think therapy should should be mandatory for everybody. We 101 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 4: all have ship we have to work through, excuse me, 102 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 4: stuff we have to work through. 103 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 3: A lot of us aren't ready to admit a lot 104 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 3: of the things that we got to work through. 105 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 4: But the unhealed part of it keeps showing up in 106 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 4: all of the worst ways that you can imagine, every 107 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 4: single day, day in and day out, because we have 108 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 4: not taken time to take a tender moment with that healed, 109 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 4: twelve year old version of ourselves. 110 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 3: Oh my god, that just needs to be heard. 111 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: Can you be my every guest? Can you just be 112 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: the only guest I always have? Because that is the 113 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 1: most important thing to say. 114 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 3: Mandatory. Let's make it mandatory. 115 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: I hate to move on to politics, yeah, after this, 116 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: but we should. 117 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: We should shocking politics after all, do it? 118 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: Okay, let's get into the week. Were you surprised to 119 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: learn that those eight Senate Democrats were ready to vote 120 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: with Republicans to end the shutdown. 121 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 4: I think that we didn't prime the American people for 122 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 4: it coming. It felt like it came out of nowhere. 123 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 4: Was not prepared for it. 124 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 3: I knew that. 125 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 4: The the the standoff would come to an end one 126 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 4: way or another, and I did not think it would 127 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 4: come to an end with a policy solution being changed 128 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 4: in the midst of a shutdown. 129 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 3: It's never happened, changed being dropped. But none of it. 130 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 4: I mean, I just don't think that that big change 131 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 4: was going to come out of the shutdown. I think 132 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 4: it achieved some important things, like it finally disciplined Democrats 133 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 4: to concentrate on one thing and one thing only, and 134 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 4: in some ways was able to break through to remind 135 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 4: people that. 136 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 3: You know what, health care is a thing and this 137 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 3: exchange is a thing. 138 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 4: No matter how much we wanted to cry it, it 139 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 4: helped out. It helps a lot of people be able 140 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 4: to afford access to healthcare. And I think for the 141 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 4: American voter, it centered their attention on what they could 142 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 4: and could not afford. Can we afford for this to 143 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 4: happen in this and not for this to happen? Can 144 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 4: I afford this in my house and then not this? 145 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 4: And then what do I what do I stop paying for? 146 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 4: What do I stop getting? If I choose to get 147 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 4: this and more than anything, I think that it gave 148 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 4: every day Americans the belief that they had some backup coming, 149 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 4: like the cavalry was coming in the shut down signal 150 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 4: for some people that the cavalry was coming, and then 151 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 4: it all dropped. 152 00:06:59,200 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: You know. 153 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: I think it's a boring to point out while we're 154 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: all talking about Democrats and what they gave up and 155 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: what they did, this puts Republicans. It reminds me of 156 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: the Row Fight. Republicans got what they wanted yep, but 157 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: they had nothing in place. 158 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: When Roe went away yep. 159 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: For you know, not just for women who want an abortion, 160 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: but like healthcare, they had nothing to come in. And 161 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: now Republicans are about to get what they want yep, 162 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: and nothing to replace it, and they're gonna have to 163 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: They're gonna have to own that. I think that's important 164 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: to say. That's not like that doesn't make this a 165 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: Democratic win. No, agree, it's important to say. 166 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 3: That it is. 167 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 4: And I listened to this playback of Speaker Johnson, you know, 168 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 4: basically saying no way, no how, would not given a vote, 169 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 4: you know, this sort of this shut down in your 170 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 4: face on healthcare, and it hit me differently this time before. 171 00:07:58,440 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 3: When I heard it, I. 172 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 4: Heard it as a sort of a politician political analyst 173 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 4: who's hearing them say no to Democratic members of Congress, 174 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 4: you are not going to get what it is you want. 175 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 4: After the election, I heard it differently. I heard it 176 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 4: as I have a need. I'm the average person and 177 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 4: I have a need that needs to be met, and 178 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 4: the Republican Speaker of the House is shutting me down. 179 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 3: I don't have time for you. 180 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 2: Yes. 181 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 4: And that struck me differently, and I think its struck 182 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 4: a lot of Americans differently. Now that the election has 183 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 4: taken place, you've centered, you have now made common cause 184 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 4: with the people who are advocating for health care affordability. 185 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, and now you're hearing. 186 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 4: From the Republicans Speaker of the House, No, we don't 187 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 4: have time for your care. We were not given vale, 188 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 4: we were not doing that. And that shut down is 189 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 4: not the government shut down, shutdown of my issue. You 190 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 4: shutting me down is not going to play well. They 191 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 4: own being on the opposite side of people's needs. 192 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: Yep. 193 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: Well, it showing is Republicans really just don't care about 194 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: your pay. They don't care about your whether it's economic pain, 195 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: they just don't care. And that's now that this looks 196 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: like it's over, Republicans are going to have to own that. 197 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: But first, like Democrats are mad. They're mad at Democrats. 198 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: They're mad at King Jefferies and Chuck Schumer even though 199 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: they oppose the deal just for like a general failure 200 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: of leadership. 201 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: They're mad at the Senate eight. 202 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: They're mad at the party for seeming to, I mean, 203 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: according to Democratic voters on TikTok anyway, like always surrender. 204 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: So who should Democratic voters be mad at Andrew Gillum? 205 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 3: I mean they ought to be mad at the. 206 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 4: People who are really causing the harm here, and that 207 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 4: is Donald Trump and the Republican Party. 208 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 3: Yeah. 209 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 4: Now, let me also align myself with the fact that 210 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 4: I'm mad at all those same people. Yeah, the Democratic 211 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 4: leadership because we have we have we have cultivated the 212 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 4: image of always being willing to cave, never being willing 213 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 4: to stand up and fight the fight. But in truth, 214 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 4: the reason why Democrats couldn't stand and fight this fight 215 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 4: all the way through is because they didn't believe that 216 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 4: they would have on the opposite side of them an 217 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 4: opponent who was willing to throw the kids to the dogs, 218 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 4: to throw the hungry and their needs to the winds 219 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 4: to treat the American people with such foul disregard as 220 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 4: the Republicans and Donald Trump were willing to do. Always 221 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 4: in that setup, Democrats are going to fold because their 222 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 4: compassion for people and their ability to see the hurt 223 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 4: that is being you know, dialed out, dialed out on people, 224 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 4: is always going to show up to intercede. 225 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 3: It's always going to show up. 226 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 4: If you're on the opposite side of that, you are never, ever, 227 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 4: ever going to lose to Democrats when it comes to 228 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 4: a war about who's going to be more compassionate and 229 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 4: fold in favor of making sure people of kids are 230 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 4: being able to able to be fed and to eat. 231 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: You cannot underestimate the Republicans' capacity for cruelty. 232 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 3: Cruelty is it can Cruthty is a word that's right. 233 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: Can't And that's painful for me to say as a 234 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: former Republican, as a Conservative who came up in compassionate conservatism. 235 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, different world. 236 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: It's painful, but that's just the fact of the modern 237 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: Republican Party today. You cannot underestimate their capacity for cruelty. 238 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: And I think when a Republican when Democrats got themselves 239 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: into this fight, they were underestimating. 240 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 4: They were underestimating, and they also, you know, I don't 241 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 4: think that there was an end plan in place. I 242 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 4: don't think they began with an end in mind. I 243 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 4: think they went for what felt like needed to be 244 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 4: done in that moment, and that was to put some 245 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 4: breaks on some things. 246 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think people were grateful for the breaks. 247 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 4: But this is where I think I would have done 248 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,599 Speaker 4: things slightly differently, and that is and going toward a 249 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 4: shut down and in thinking about a way out or 250 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 4: an endgame. I think it would have been really smart 251 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 4: of Democrats to to target the eight US senators on 252 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 4: the Republican side, who are the most vulnerable, who were 253 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 4: in the places where they're split governance a democratic governor 254 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 4: and they voted for Trump presidency or have someone who sence. 255 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 256 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, so that these people during those forty days 257 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 4: felt like the world in their state was colliding in 258 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 4: on them. 259 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was all collapsing on their backs. 260 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 4: For them to make the decision that was going to 261 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 4: be in the best interest of the American people, not 262 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 4: the one that was going to gratify and satisfy Donald Trump, 263 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 4: but what was going to get them re elected. 264 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 3: Or elected to the next great position that they want 265 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 3: to hold. 266 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 4: And I think that we failed to bring political You 267 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 4: know how on TV you would you would, you would talk, 268 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 4: but you or debate somebody in studio, but you're really 269 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 4: talking through them through the camera to the people at 270 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 4: home to get your point. Yeah, we these Democrats and 271 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 4: DC were talking to their senators as if they were 272 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 4: in the same room when they when they really should 273 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 4: have been talking through them to the people back in 274 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 4: their home districts, saying put the pressure, put the pressure, 275 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 4: put the pressure until we get what it is that 276 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 4: we need. It was it was lacking of I think 277 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 4: the political kinds of outcomes you want to show up electorally. 278 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: So what you're talking about is the mechanics of this 279 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: and how this could have gone. So when we're talking 280 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 1: about the mechanics, does someone like Chuck Schumer need to go? 281 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 2: Is he responsible? 282 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 4: You know, I have to believe that Chuck Schumer is 283 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 4: the leader for his caucus. And what I mean by 284 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 4: that is within the Democratic Caucus you have quite frankly 285 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 4: republican l like Democrats, and you've got the. 286 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 3: Most liberal of liberal. 287 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 4: Who may be independents like senators who caucuses with Democrats. Yeah, 288 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 4: I just mean we have the ideological spectrum. I think 289 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 4: within the Democratic Party. I think what Chuck Schumer provides 290 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 4: is a good foil for either one of those ends 291 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 4: of the party when it comes to HU to blame 292 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 4: for what happened when I'm the moderate and unfortunately we've 293 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 4: got New York Democrats who are pulling us one way 294 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 4: or another, and then you got the liberal who're saying, oh, well, 295 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 4: you know, Chuck Schumer is a decent leader because he 296 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 4: helps keep the moderates in line or this, that and 297 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 4: the third. I just think he's the leader for their party. 298 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 4: He is not the leader for the Democratic Party. I 299 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 4: think he's the leader for Democrats who happened to be 300 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 4: the US Senate. And I think it's an untenable place 301 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 4: to be, to be quite frank, because you are dealing 302 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 4: with the opposite ends of the spectrum. 303 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, we do. 304 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 2: I think that's smart. 305 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: Look, here's the ugly truth and the honest truth. Democrats 306 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: have no power in Washington, period full stop. 307 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 3: Thanks for the reminder, and I'm going. 308 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: To get into this in my in my hot take. 309 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: But like winning elections is the only option, and that's 310 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: what happened last week. And that's the only way to 311 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: get around Trump and Trump is and the Republican majority 312 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: is to win elections. 313 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 3: Winning with the right people to strength. 314 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: You can flex. 315 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, So what do Democrats do between now and midterms 316 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: to steer the party in the right direction to win elections? 317 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 4: Again, I think we organize. We organize our asses off 318 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 4: this idea of waiting until a few weeks out from 319 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 4: the election to start talking to your base about the 320 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 4: emergency of the moment, Like people are past that you 321 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 4: told me the work. It's not happening. It's not happening. 322 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 4: You need to be in relationship with me, and that 323 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 4: relationship does not start a couple of weeks out from 324 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 4: the election. You have to be in relationship with me. 325 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 4: I'm tied of dating. You need to put a ring 326 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 4: on it. And that means you got to talk to 327 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 4: me inside and outside of elections. You have to hear 328 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 4: my needs inside a cycle and outside of a cycle. 329 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 4: Why Because those needs are still the needs. Even when 330 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 4: you're not listening to me, not paying attention to me, 331 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 4: not courting me, not talking to me, My needs are 332 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 4: still the needs. And so the party has to get 333 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 4: adjusted to the fact that people don't They don't want quickies. 334 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 4: They want you to be in real relationship with them. 335 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 4: If you're going to be my representative voice in Washington, DC, 336 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 4: if you're going to know me, if you're going to 337 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 4: understand what my hurts, my pains, my knees are, what 338 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 4: thresholds I have for pain being you know, jest, you 339 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 4: know that I have to ingest because of actions you 340 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 4: make in Washington, then you need to be in regular 341 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 4: communication and in community with me. And I just think 342 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 4: for whatever reason, it is the hardest thing to crack 343 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 4: for our folks, like open up. This isn't gonna work anymore. 344 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 4: They're not responding to the word is about to collapse. 345 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 4: They're not doing it because they're saying, you know what 346 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 4: you told me that last time, and you told me 347 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 4: the time before. 348 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 3: Well, y'all the truth for real, this it is here now. Yeah, 349 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 3: we are experiencing it now. 350 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 4: And I think people are waking up to the fact 351 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 4: that they are experiencing it. And that's why so many 352 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 4: people turned up this last you. 353 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 3: Know, two tuesdays ago. What's to say that but for November. 354 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 4: Especially, if times are still hard for people, they're gonna wonder, 355 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 4: what are you going to do that's gonna truly make 356 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 4: it different? 357 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 3: How are you going to beet with me differently? 358 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 4: Because last time I didn't get dealt with differently, and 359 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 4: my life hasn't changed or improved, and you're still sitting. 360 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: High up there, and I think you're getting it something 361 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: that's very hard to. 362 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 2: Define in terms of messaging. 363 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: But Democrats saying for as long as they have we 364 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: got this, don't worry is not the message. 365 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 2: The message should be. 366 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: We don't got this, and if you want us to 367 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 1: get this, you have to elect us. We have to 368 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: win back a majority. We don't got this. We cannot 369 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: do anything about all of your pain. That's right unless 370 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: we're back in power. 371 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 3: That's right. 372 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 2: And instead of saying we're on top of it, don't worry. 373 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's not it. 374 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: We don't need your vote of confidence. We want you 375 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: to be as scared as we are. 376 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 3: That's it, and get it. 377 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 4: I would also say, then admonish us to do something 378 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 4: about it that we the regular people, then tell us 379 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 4: what our role is in helping you secure that thing. 380 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 4: Because even though just select us falls short because it 381 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 4: lets people think that when you go there as our champions, 382 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 4: that you'll get it done and you don't need them, 383 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 4: Like my part's over. I have the vote, and I 384 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 4: sit you there and my part's over. And my point 385 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 4: is that your part isn't over. We're actually gonna have 386 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 4: to struggle through this together. Yeah, you get us elected, 387 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 4: we're gonna hold those hearings. We're gonna hold those folks accountable. 388 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 4: But but we got to keep you in the game. 389 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 4: When it comes to calling your member holding them accountable. 390 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 4: We need you to do that too, because sometimes they 391 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 4: wan't all be on our side. 392 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 3: We're gonna need some people to hold them to it. 393 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 4: So I would say, like, just imagine us being capable 394 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 4: of doing more than voting. Imagine that we can actually 395 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 4: be part of the cavalry that helps to save us. 396 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 4: And too many times elections I think let every day 397 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 4: people off the hook, bye bye bye by allowing us 398 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 4: to believe that you told me you will go there 399 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 4: and get it done, and I expect you to do that. 400 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 4: And you never want to call back home and said 401 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 4: you needed my help. You never once said you needed 402 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 4: me alongside you to get the thing done. And I 403 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 4: just think we have to be honest with people, more 404 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,239 Speaker 4: honest with voters, to say we need you not just 405 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 4: on election there, we need you through it. 406 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 3: We need you through it in order to deliver on 407 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 3: what we need Andrew. 408 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: Before I let you go, we end with this thing 409 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: I call the exit poll, and it's a series of 410 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: questions of varying degrees of seriousness. 411 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 3: Reliable, right, yeah, for. 412 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 2: Exit polls are reliable. 413 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 5: No. 414 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: So the first question is what's your favorite movie about politics? 415 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 4: Oh? My goodness, Oh, I hate I don't know movie names, 416 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 4: but I will tell you. 417 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 3: I don't know movie names. 418 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 2: But well, describe one and I can name it. Maybe. 419 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 4: So do you remember uh Kurt wait wait wait the 420 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 4: short one place President Martin she Martin Sheen. He's vice president, 421 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 4: but it's in the movie and he's dating the girl 422 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 4: who's like. 423 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're talking about Are you talking about Michael 424 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: Douglass and the American President? 425 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 4: That's okay, that's it. See how I told you I'm 426 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 4: not good at names. 427 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: Oh we got there together. 428 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 3: Oh that's it. Okay, important what you were. 429 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: Just talking about. You've got an elected representative. That's you 430 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: still need my help. 431 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: I'm with you. 432 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 4: He really got it when he You know, I liked 433 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 4: him standing up to his own it. You know, he 434 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 4: when he basically you want to come, don't come after her, 435 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 4: don't go after you come directly through me, right, you 436 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 4: come at me. 437 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 3: It wasn't a strong man thing. It was an honest thing. 438 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 4: It's like all his political life he played the good 439 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 4: guy and the good cop and and like the responsible one. 440 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 4: And now he's at some point they can push you 441 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 4: that far. Yeah, they push you too far. And now 442 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 4: it's push the desk back, stand up, meet me right here. 443 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 3: I'm right here at this moment. 444 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 2: Love that movie. It's an Aaron Sorkin class set. 445 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: And we've talked about this movie several times on this 446 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: podcast and over the course of Off the Cup because 447 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: it's a lot of people's favorite. It's a great movie 448 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: and it's a feel good movie. 449 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 450 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: The way Larry Wilmore we had on the podcast described it, 451 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: he said, mister Smith was already in. 452 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 4: Washington and Washington yeah, okay. 453 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: Second question of three is who's someone on the other 454 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,120 Speaker 1: side of the aisle that you had mind. 455 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 3: Respect coming out of the last election. 456 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 4: I'd say Liz Cheney, Oh yeah, somebody who I respect 457 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 4: probably philosophically completely in different places. 458 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 3: But I. 459 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 4: Admired the way that she chose the constitution over a 460 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 4: party and over a president. And you give my respect 461 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 4: every day of the week for if you have the 462 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 4: ability to stand for right regardless of who's on the 463 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 4: opposite side. 464 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 2: Nice. And finally, how do we save our democracy? 465 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 4: We activate and yes that includes voting, but that also 466 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 4: includes holding your elected accountable. That means that democracy is 467 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 4: a contact sport and we don't just get to sit 468 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 4: high or low in the in the observation deck with 469 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 4: no responsibility to ensure its outcome. The framer said, we 470 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 4: give you a republic if you can keep it, and 471 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 4: that is a democratic republic. And if you can keep 472 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,239 Speaker 4: part is now and that's us. Yeah, if we can 473 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 4: keep it, that's us. 474 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: Yep, thank you. This was great, Thank you, Andrew. Good 475 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 2: good to have you. Thank you to Andrew. 476 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: And remember you can go listen to Andrew's Native Land 477 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: pod on iHeart or anywhere you get your podcasts. After 478 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: the break, we come back with maybe a little mail 479 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: and my piping hot political take. 480 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:36,959 Speaker 2: Welcome back to talking politics. 481 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: Before we get to my mini mono, Lauren, do we 482 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 1: have any mail we. 483 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 5: Do have some mail. It's actually from Eva, our favorite listener. 484 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 5: But she is really excited that you spoke to Senator 485 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 5: Elisa Slapkin. She's a longtime fan of her and you, 486 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 5: and she thinks that she would love to see Slatkin 487 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 5: run for presidents. That was exciting Micha. She's thinking about 488 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 5: branding for Democrats. So she's saying, I agree with both 489 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 5: of you that Democrats need to unite around one agenda. Also, 490 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 5: I keep thinking that they need a marketing or branding 491 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 5: expert to help them. Donald Trump is a genius marketer, 492 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 5: specifically for TV. The Democrats have missed the boat on 493 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 5: galvanizing its base around not only a similar message, but 494 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 5: a brand. She gives some examples we are living through. 495 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 5: Hopefully not much longer. Trump shut down the terifation, start 496 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 5: referring to people as pete, heg signal or pardon, Pam 497 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 5: Kruella Gnome. I think the more we get these get 498 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 5: these phrases into the media, the better the base will 499 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 5: wake up and realize that Trump Show has jumped the shark. 500 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 5: Hopefully any thoughts, see. 501 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: Well, that's a it's a good thing to point out. 502 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 2: I think the thing we always have. 503 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: To say, when we're talking about how great Trump is 504 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: at branding, is that, well, Trump is great at lying. 505 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: I mean it's not it's not just branding, it's that 506 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: he doesn't mind lying about you know. He was just 507 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: on I think yesterday saying prices are down, they're down. 508 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 2: I think he said something. 509 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous like three hundred percent prices are up. 510 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 2: That is just a lie. 511 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: So when you're comfortable lying and just telling people up 512 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: is down, the sky is green, that's an advantage. 513 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 2: I don't think you should compete with that. 514 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: But I completely understand the point that, like, Democrats are 515 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: not playing in the same sandbox as Republicans when it 516 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: comes to this, and you might need to get a 517 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: little dirty, a little dirtier to get the American people 518 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: to wrap their heads around what's happening and then go 519 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: and disseminate it, talk about it, project it, get their friends, 520 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: get their neighbors, get their family on the same page. Yeah, 521 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: you need some like tools to do that. And Democrats 522 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: aren't given anything. They really aren't. 523 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 5: They had Weird for a moment. Weird was a good. 524 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 2: Place thing, but like, well it didn't work. 525 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: It didn't It didn't get Kamala and Tim Walls elected, 526 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: and I see Gavin Newsom trying to do this with 527 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: his like you know, mean tweets. Ultimately, I'm here for 528 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: all of that, and that's fine, play around with that. Ultimately, 529 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: the thing that's going to win is an agenda. You 530 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: have to have a competing agenda. And this is what's 531 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: been missing. And I've been saying it since even before 532 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, when I knew Democrats were going to lose, 533 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: I said, you're not offering a competitive agenda. You're just 534 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: talking about how bad Trump is and people want something 535 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: to vote for. Yeah, And what Democrats have been doing 536 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: through twenty twenty four was, and we've said this one 537 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: hundred times, was saying the issues you are telling us 538 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: matter to you aren't actually aren't actually problems. Obviously that's 539 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: the wrong thing to do, and that's not just a 540 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: messaging fix. That's also acknowledging some of your policies aren't working. 541 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 2: Right. 542 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: The open borders policy that Joe Biden allowed after undoing 543 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: the remain in Mexico just because Trump had done it, 544 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: that was a bad policy. We can have all the 545 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: compassion for asylum secret seeking migrants, but open borders was 546 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: a terrible policy. Some of the inflationary economic policy was bad. 547 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: Some of the soft one crime policy is bad. Unless 548 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: you're going to acknowledge that some of your policies need 549 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: to be tweaked, you're never going to get there on 550 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: just messaging alone. 551 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 5: Yeah. 552 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: So I think that's where we're at, and it's a 553 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: hard thing to tackle. It's easier to tackle messaging. It's 554 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: really hard to tackle what policies are we offering that 555 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: are going to solve people's problems? 556 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 2: How do we get them on board? 557 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 5: Well? Is it still a lesson of m Donnie's rise 558 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 5: that he stayed so on message? But his childcare rent like, 559 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 5: he's not national so he doesn't need to speak to Trump. 560 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: Well, he's national now, I mean he is a national 561 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: figure now, for better or worse. 562 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 2: And no, you're one hundred percent right. 563 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: What he did was acknowledge the problem people were saying 564 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: is a problem. And I think it was hard for 565 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: national Democrats, especially in the presidential to do that because 566 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: to do that it made them feel like they had 567 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: to take responsibility for the economy being bad, or crime 568 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: being out. 569 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 2: Of control, or a migrant crisis. 570 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: Zoramum Donni didn't have to take any responsibility true, for 571 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: creating those problems, right, both because he wasn't elected, and 572 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: he wasn't he's a Democratic socialist, he's not even inside 573 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: the party. Yeah, so he could say, yeah, you're right, 574 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: the economy is terrible, you can't afford housing, you can't 575 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: afford childcare, you mass transits glacial and inefficient and unsafe. 576 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: He could say all the things because he didn't have 577 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 1: to take responsibility for them. I want democrats to just 578 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: say all the things that voters. 579 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 5: You're right, yeah, and it's okay to criticize yourself. 580 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 581 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: And Democrats need to get over their fear of having 582 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: to take responsibility. Voters don't care. Just tell me I'm 583 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: right that my problem is real, yeah, and then tell 584 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: me how you're going to fix it. And Lauren, I 585 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: can't tell you how many voters we talked to over 586 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: the course of this New York City election. I would say, 587 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: you realize a lot of the things orn Mumdani is 588 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: saying he'll do he can't actually do. 589 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 2: And they said we don't care. 590 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 5: Oh, fascinating, don't care. 591 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, And they said the same to Trump, right, they 592 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: didn't care that a lot of the things he was 593 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: promising either couldn't happen constitutionally or because Congress or whatever. 594 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: They just wanted to be heard and seen and acknowledged. 595 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: Your pain is real. I get your pain. So I 596 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: mean that's the lesson. That is the lesson for the 597 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: midterms in twenty twenty eight. And thank you Eva for 598 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: that question or comment, because it's it's a really it's 599 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: a really good one. These are the conversations democrats need 600 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: to be having about themselves and about moving forward. Okay, 601 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: you can write to us at Off the Cup Cup 602 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: with two Piece at gmail dot com with questions, comments, suggestions, criticism, 603 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: and maybe we'll read your mail on a future episode. 604 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: And don't forget to go listen to our interviews. 605 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 2: At Off the Cup. 606 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: This week's episode is with MSNBC's Mika Prasinski and. 607 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 2: It's really good. 608 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: Also, go check out our talk and coffee episodes too 609 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: for a little stimulation. We've got you covered and Off 610 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: the Cup We've got all the things covered. Okay, now 611 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: my piping hot take of the week. I'm going to 612 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: start with a question that's on everyone's mind after all 613 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: of this. 614 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 2: Who won the shutdown? 615 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: This government shutdown inflicted a tremendous amount of pain on Americans, 616 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: from federal workers who went weeks without pay, to American 617 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: travelers who were victims of chaotic airport scenes and flight cancelations, 618 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: to the millions of Americans, including children, whose SNAP benefits 619 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: were withheld. That pain is real and cannot be discounted 620 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: or minimized. But the government shutdown was also inherently a 621 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: political act. It was designed by both parties to inflict 622 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: pain on each other. Democrats used it to pressure Republicans 623 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: into extending permanently the enhanced tax credits in the Affordable 624 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: Care introduced during the Biden administration and said to expire 625 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: at the end of the year. Democrats warned that if 626 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: those tax credits lapsed, millions of Americans would see premiums 627 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: rise or lose their health insurance Altogether. Their calculation was 628 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: that most Americans would blame Republicans and Trump for the shutdown, 629 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: and eventually the GOP would cave. Now, Republicans called their 630 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: bluff and said, nope, nope, sign a clean cr a 631 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: clean continuing resolution to continue funding the government, and then 632 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: we'll discuss the ACA extensions later. Now, Democrats were smart 633 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: not to believe them, of course, but their strategy was 634 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: wrong from the beginning. 635 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 2: Let me tell you why. And I said this with Andrew. 636 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: You cannot underestimate this Republican Party's capacity for cruelty and 637 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: its ability to withstand the terrible political optics and reality 638 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: of denying hungry kids food, stranding travelers at airports, and 639 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: even maybe ruining our holidays. Republicans were never going to flinch. 640 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 2: They don't care. 641 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: Remember President Trump went to the Supreme Court to ask 642 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: them to allow him to continue denying snap benefits for kids. Okay, 643 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: that's how much they didn't care about your pain. So, 644 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: for better or worse, eight Senate Democrats decided. 645 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 2: We got to put an end to this thing. 646 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: And as Independent Senator Angus King of Maine, one of 647 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: the eight, said, standing up to Trump didn't work. 648 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 2: It actually gave him more power. Now you can lament that. 649 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: But that's true. That is true. That's what happened. So 650 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,959 Speaker 1: no surprise, Dems are mad. Dem voters are mad, but 651 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: so are a lot of rank and file electeds. Here's Rocanna, 652 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: congressman from California, who actually had on last week to 653 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: discuss the elections. How much of this do you put 654 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: at the feet of Charles Schumer, the Democratic leader in 655 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: the Senate. 656 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 3: Most of it? I mean, he's the leader of the Senate. 657 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 6: This deal would never have happened if he had not 658 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 6: blessed it. Don't take my word for it, take the 659 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 6: word of other senators were saying that they kept Senator 660 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 6: Schumer in the loop the whole time. Look, I've worked 661 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 6: with Senator Schumer. He did an incredible job on the CHIPSEG, 662 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 6: on the IRA, on infrastructure. But it's time for him 663 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 6: to be replaced. 664 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 3: He is not meeting the moment. 665 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 6: He's out of touch with where the party's base is. 666 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it's understandable. Well, why people like Rokanna are angry. 667 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: They have constituents back home. They promised they'd fight for them, 668 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: and now they have to go back and explain why 669 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: this shutdown was a waste of time. 670 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 2: But here's the question. 671 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: Was it a waste of time? After this protracted game 672 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: of chicken? 673 00:33:59,240 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 2: Who won? 674 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: Well, the short answer is nobody right. The American people 675 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: lost the most. As is always the case, this forty 676 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 1: plus day disruption was more. 677 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 2: Than inconvenient for millions of people. 678 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: It was calamitous for millions of people, and both chambers 679 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: of Congress, both parties, the President. 680 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 2: They're all losers in this. 681 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: When the government is dysfunctional, literally cannot function. It's a 682 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: post on all the houses. It's a terrible look for 683 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: everyone in charge. But there's a longer answer, and it's twofold. 684 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: And the short term, yeah, Democrats lost, but in the 685 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: long term they might just win. 686 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 2: Let me explain. 687 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: In the immediate there's no doubt Dems come out of 688 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: the shutdown looking like suckers. They caved, folded, surrendered, have 689 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: nothing tangible to show for the forty days of pain 690 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,439 Speaker 1: that American voters suffer through. 691 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 2: And at least according to the current. 692 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: Language of the funding deal, Dems get nothing on the 693 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: expiring Obamacare tax credits. Accept a guarantee from Republicans in 694 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: the Senate that the Senate will vote on a healthcare 695 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: bill in December. Well that sounds great, right, but even 696 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: then it would have to pass the House and be 697 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: signed by President Trump, and good luck with that. Here's 698 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: Speaker Mike Johnson on whether he will commit to even 699 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,399 Speaker 1: holding that vote in the House. 700 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 7: If something passes the Senate, it would only pass on 701 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 7: a bipartisan basis. 702 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 3: Would you bring it up? 703 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 7: Well, the bill that's going to pass, so we want 704 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 7: to extend the subsidies that later vote. I can't commit 705 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 7: to anything that hasn't even passed through the Senate yet. 706 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 7: I mean, I've never done that. I'm very consistent. I've 707 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 7: been Speaker for over two years. And one of the 708 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 7: reasons I've held in cavalists because I don't go out 709 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 7: in predetermined outcomes. It's a member driven institution, as it 710 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 7: should be, and I'm really insistent about that. We got 711 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 7: to get back to regular order. And that's what we're 712 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 7: doing here. 713 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 5: Right. 714 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: So the Senate's guaranteeing a vote, but if the House 715 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: doesn't guarantee a vote point, it's meaningless. So really they 716 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: got nothing nothing. Democrats didn't get the thing they were 717 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,839 Speaker 1: holding out for the reason the government was shut down 718 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: in the first place. There's no way to spin that 719 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 1: as a win again, at least not in the short term. 720 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: It's inarguably a punch to the gut, and less than 721 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: a week after Democrats were so invigorated by those elections 722 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: in New Jersey and Virginia and New York. But and 723 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,439 Speaker 1: this isn't important, but there may be a long term 724 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: reward for Democrats looming on the horizon, and just in 725 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: time for midterms. Suore Dems would have loved to win 726 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: this battle and walk away preserving the ACA tax extensions indefinitely. 727 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: Let's be honest, it was never gonna happen. Democrats have 728 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: virtually no power in Washington. The shutdown was a glaring 729 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,760 Speaker 1: example of that reality. Well, it's painful now to admit 730 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: that they lost. They'll get to take credit at least 731 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: for ending the shutdown in time, and that could be 732 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: a very useful talking point as midterms approach. They can 733 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: say Republicans were happy to keep inflicting pain. They actually 734 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: begged the courts to let them keep inflicting pain because 735 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: they don't care about your pain, and we have to 736 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: stop them for the good of the country. 737 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 2: We put voters before politics. 738 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: Look, get to say all that, and now, whatever happens 739 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: with Obamacare, Republicans will own this. If they want to 740 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: be the party that takes away healthcare benefits from millions 741 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: of voters, go for it. 742 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 3: So bold strategy caught, and let's see if it pays 743 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 3: off for them. 744 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: Look, eventually Democrats will stop being mad at Democrats and 745 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: they'll go back to be mad at Republicans and the 746 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: quicker this ends, the sooner they can get back to 747 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: pointing out how terrible Trump is, the Trump economy is, 748 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 1: how about the tariffs have been, how gross Trump's lavish 749 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 1: spending on ballrooms and banquets is, how distracted he seems 750 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: by foreign affairs, how badly he wants to keep the 751 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: Epstein files hidden, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. That's 752 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: a much better place to be for Democrats than in 753 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: a government shut down, taking incoming from their own for 754 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: either persisting or not fighting enough. And this is all 755 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: again a useful reminder that with practically no power in 756 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: Washington at the moment, the only way to advance an 757 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: agenda rain and Republicans or constrict Trump's overreach is by 758 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: winning elections. Short term pain, long term gain onward. All right, 759 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: that's it for me this week. Thanks for tuning into 760 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: Talking politics. Be sure to go check out our talk 761 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: and Coffee and our Off the Cup interviews, and we'll 762 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: see you next week. Off the Cup is a production 763 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 1: of iHeart Podcasts as part of the Reason Choice Network. 764 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 2: If you want more, check out the. 765 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: Other Reason Choice podcasts Politics with Jamel Hill and Native 766 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,720 Speaker 1: Land Pod. For Off the Cup, I'm your host se Cup. 767 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producers 768 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 1: are me ce cop Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate 769 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: and review wherever you get your podcasts, follow or subscribe 770 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:15,320 Speaker 1: for new episodes every Wednesday,