1
00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:09,320
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

2
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,320
Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

3
00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,920
Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

4
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,760
Speaker 1: mean for our psychology.

5
00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,760
Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to

6
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,840
Speaker 2: the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in

7
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,880
Speaker 2: the world, it is so great to have you here.

8
00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 2: Back for another episode as we break down the Psychology

9
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,600
Speaker 2: of your twenties, and back for another dating episode. I

10
00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,959
Speaker 2: think we all kind of want to know the secret

11
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,440
Speaker 2: to love right, the secret not just to finding our person,

12
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,320
Speaker 2: but also making it lost and making the relationship healthy

13
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:55,040
Speaker 2: and sustainable and fulfilling for not just the next few months,

14
00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,760
Speaker 2: but hopefully the next few years, maybe our entire lives.

15
00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,400
Speaker 2: There are a lot of different dating tips dating advice

16
00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,679
Speaker 2: out there around how exactly to do that. But what

17
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,680
Speaker 2: I've found is that if you really want true, long

18
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 2: lasting love, if you want to find somebody in your twenties,

19
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,280
Speaker 2: in your thirties, whenever you are ready, instead of just

20
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,720
Speaker 2: rushing into any connection that passes you by, instead of

21
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,760
Speaker 2: really getting swept up in big romances and big love

22
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:29,200
Speaker 2: affairs that burn very very bright, go slow approach, love

23
00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 2: approach dating, any of those endeavors as kind of like

24
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,560
Speaker 2: a scenic drive. You're getting to know them. You're not

25
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,200
Speaker 2: rushing into things. It should be, you know, smooth and

26
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,039
Speaker 2: easy and care free and fun. And I think that

27
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,200
Speaker 2: you know, amongst all the noise and all the dating advice,

28
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,400
Speaker 2: maybe what we really need is more emotional vulnerability and

29
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,840
Speaker 2: emotional intimacy and that definitely comes with time. So today

30
00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 2: we are going to be talking about just that, this

31
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:04,560
Speaker 2: approached dating, the slowmance, the slow burn, low pressure first dates,

32
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,560
Speaker 2: all of those things. And we are also going to

33
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,680
Speaker 2: bring on an incredible guest, somebody who knows so much

34
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,079
Speaker 2: more about this than I do and can provide us

35
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:22,359
Speaker 2: some insight without further ado. Let's get into it. Today.

36
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,839
Speaker 2: We have on the wonderful mo They are a licensed

37
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,200
Speaker 2: marriage and family therapist and the Love and Connection Expert

38
00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,600
Speaker 2: at Hinge to talk about this amazing topic. Can you

39
00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,440
Speaker 2: introduce yourself in a bit of your work.

40
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,600
Speaker 3: Yay, thank you, that was a beautiful introduction. Thank you

41
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,000
Speaker 3: so much for having me. I am what you said.

42
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 4: I am.

43
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,600
Speaker 3: I am a licensed marriage and family therapist and the

44
00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,960
Speaker 3: Love and Connection Expert at Hinge Over the past decade,

45
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 3: I've been working with individuals, families, couples on relationships. So

46
00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,800
Speaker 3: relationships has been my focus of my work, and that

47
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:06,320
Speaker 3: spans the life journey. It spans a variety of life experiences.

48
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 3: I identify as non binary transgender, so I am a

49
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,760
Speaker 3: part of the LGBTQI plus community. I use that them

50
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:19,440
Speaker 3: were he him pronouns, And Yeah, I am excited about

51
00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,920
Speaker 3: all of the work I've been doing at Hinge. Basically,

52
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,760
Speaker 3: what I'm doing at Hinge is pairing all of that

53
00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,679
Speaker 3: experience as a therapist, and I am joining that with

54
00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:37,280
Speaker 3: hinges data backed insights around dating and relationships to offer

55
00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,680
Speaker 3: dater's valuable advice on and off of the app about

56
00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,880
Speaker 3: connection and creating meaningful partnership.

57
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 2: You want to know something interesting, I didn't even I

58
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 2: don't think I even told you this. I actually met

59
00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:50,520
Speaker 2: my partner on Hinge.

60
00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:51,480
Speaker 4: Wow.

61
00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,560
Speaker 2: So I'm really excited to get into this because I

62
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,480
Speaker 2: honestly didn't even of course I knew how we met,

63
00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 2: but I hadn't even like clocked that that would be

64
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 2: that like until just then. So I'm excited to talk

65
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,760
Speaker 2: about this as well, and not just obviously like you

66
00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,960
Speaker 2: just have this wealth of knowledge from having literal access

67
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:14,000
Speaker 2: to our dating data, which is like insane, but also

68
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 2: this concept that you talk about a lot of the

69
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,320
Speaker 2: slow burn and the slow mance, which I think is wonderful.

70
00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:25,599
Speaker 2: Let's actually address the Hinge Hinges new data report firstly,

71
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,760
Speaker 2: because I get so many questions from people in their

72
00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,680
Speaker 2: twenties being like, what is the correct way to be

73
00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,520
Speaker 2: dating right now? Am I doing this right? Like I

74
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:34,960
Speaker 2: want to find the love of my life or I

75
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,719
Speaker 2: want something more casual, and it feels like I just

76
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:42,160
Speaker 2: can't crack the code. So can you explain some of

77
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,719
Speaker 2: the key findings from this report?

78
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,280
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I am excited to hear more about how you

79
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 3: and your partner's man And so we released very recently

80
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,680
Speaker 3: our new dating report called the LGBTQI plus Date Report

81
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:05,640
Speaker 3: stands for Data, Advice, Trends and Expertise. And inside of

82
00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,880
Speaker 3: that report, we surveyed many queer dators on our app

83
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,719
Speaker 3: and we found that seventy six percent of queer Hinge

84
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 3: daters say that they wish that they had more positive,

85
00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,600
Speaker 3: healthy examples of relationships when they were growing up. And

86
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,560
Speaker 3: so we know that there are often these gaps and

87
00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,200
Speaker 3: representation for the queer community. So we're hoping to feel

88
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:30,600
Speaker 3: some of that that space with more information support celebration

89
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,320
Speaker 3: of queer dators and so I'm really honored to be

90
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,400
Speaker 3: in this role where I get to take part in that.

91
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,400
Speaker 3: The number one topic that we found that queer hinge

92
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,320
Speaker 3: daters want to learn more about is emotional intimacy. So

93
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,880
Speaker 3: when we think about the foundation of relationship and building

94
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 3: long term connections, I often think, especially as a therapist,

95
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,800
Speaker 3: emotional intimacy is central to that. Fifty percent of queer

96
00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,479
Speaker 3: HITGE data say that they want to learn how to

97
00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:04,400
Speaker 3: build trust, and so these topics emotional intimacy, trust, not throwing, communication, collaboration,

98
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 3: all of these things support the foundation of relationships and

99
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,560
Speaker 3: they're they're essential to what we're calling at hinge slowments,

100
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,280
Speaker 3: and I'm happy to get even more intoday.

101
00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, so I want to focus on this first

102
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 2: thing that you said, which is that so many people

103
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,400
Speaker 2: want more emotional intimacy. And I do feel like the

104
00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,919
Speaker 2: nature of dating in our twenties sometimes, like before I

105
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,880
Speaker 2: met my partner, it definitely felt like this is a transaction,

106
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,880
Speaker 2: and especially like I was on the apps and I

107
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,760
Speaker 2: think I got kind of very cynical about it for

108
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,680
Speaker 2: a while, quite cynical because I was like, everything just

109
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,920
Speaker 2: feels like there is either a want for something physical

110
00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:54,960
Speaker 2: immediately or pretty quickly, or it's like the same conversations

111
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,200
Speaker 2: again and again and again that never let go much deeper.

112
00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 2: And I also think that the reason and we kind

113
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,039
Speaker 2: of hold back emotionally sometimes when we are in that

114
00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,479
Speaker 2: environment is because we have so many options, right, and

115
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 2: we don't want to get vulnerable with the wrong person.

116
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,760
Speaker 2: Does that concern you at all, like capacity to build

117
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,119
Speaker 2: long term relationships?

118
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 4: That's a really really good question. Yeah.

119
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,680
Speaker 3: What I'm hearing you saying is that there are all

120
00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,880
Speaker 3: of these different worries or challenges that get in the

121
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 3: way of us making meaningful connections very early on. So

122
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 3: in that at first, I was holding so much empathy

123
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,680
Speaker 3: and space as a therapist, and I hope energetically you

124
00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:40,040
Speaker 3: felt that.

125
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 2: I know, I really did.

126
00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:43,600
Speaker 4: I feel like.

127
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think your story and what you're saying relates

128
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 3: to how many people are feeling or many of their

129
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,200
Speaker 3: many people's experiences. Many people are coming to the table

130
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 3: with worries about whether or not they'll be received in

131
00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,120
Speaker 3: a relationship or that someone will like them back, and

132
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 3: so I think a lot of what prevents us from

133
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:08,760
Speaker 3: showing up authentically being vulnerable, leaning in, having the seemingly

134
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,720
Speaker 3: challenging conversations is this desire to be received well. So

135
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,680
Speaker 3: if we're worried that we'll be rejected, we'll often just

136
00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:23,400
Speaker 3: prevent ourselves from leaning in. So my advice would be

137
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:29,120
Speaker 3: for daters to become really intimately aware of that voice

138
00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,480
Speaker 3: that is creating these narratives inside of us. It's often

139
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,800
Speaker 3: in our voice, but the narrative itself is important because

140
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,040
Speaker 3: if we're not aware that we're telling ourselves you're not enough,

141
00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,360
Speaker 3: or that we're afraid that we won't be enough, or

142
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,320
Speaker 3: that we're afraid that will be rejected like that time

143
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,160
Speaker 3: we were rejected in high school, or whatever the narrative is,

144
00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,439
Speaker 3: then we can't go about changing it. So I often

145
00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,440
Speaker 3: take a narrative approach as a therapist, meaning that I

146
00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,280
Speaker 3: work on and shifting the stories that we tell ourselves

147
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,160
Speaker 3: that often form limiting beliefs that keep us from our goals.

148
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,880
Speaker 3: And so the first step in that narrative therapy approach

149
00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,920
Speaker 3: is to really get clear on what the narratives are.

150
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,160
Speaker 3: So that's the first step, and I want that to

151
00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,080
Speaker 3: be people's homework. I don't want you to do anything

152
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,440
Speaker 3: beyond that, just like focus on becoming aware of what

153
00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,960
Speaker 3: those narratives are that are preventing vulnerability.

154
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,680
Speaker 2: And I think when we talk about dating in this

155
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,720
Speaker 2: day and age, just dating in general, sometimes we do

156
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,080
Speaker 2: mask our emotional intimacy or mask our need for emotional

157
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:42,800
Speaker 2: intimacy with physicality. Right, It's like, Okay, I can speed

158
00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 2: up this relationship physically and it feels exciting and it

159
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,160
Speaker 2: feels new without ever actually having to connect with this

160
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,959
Speaker 2: person on a deeper level. And I think that's kind

161
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,439
Speaker 2: of part of our inclination to just dive straight in

162
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,520
Speaker 2: to a new relationship. Are you kind of have you

163
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,640
Speaker 2: staaten that yourself? Like they need to not to say that,

164
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,320
Speaker 2: like take your time, like do whatever you want.

165
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:08,760
Speaker 4: It's your body, it's your choice.

166
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,360
Speaker 2: But sometimes like and I will say, I noticed this

167
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,480
Speaker 2: in myself when I was dating. It's like, Okay, I

168
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,760
Speaker 2: don't want to be rejected by you. Secondly, I don't

169
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,240
Speaker 2: want to get hot by you and like show myself,

170
00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 2: show myself as a vulnerable individual. So if we just

171
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,360
Speaker 2: like speed up this relationship and just like get straight

172
00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,760
Speaker 2: to the point, like I'll never have to get hurt.

173
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:33,960
Speaker 2: Is that something that you've seen.

174
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:36,560
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

175
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,760
Speaker 3: I think what you're getting at is this inclination we

176
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,640
Speaker 3: have to jump into relationships when we're feeling like someone

177
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:46,440
Speaker 3: likes us back.

178
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:48,920
Speaker 4: That's how I categorize it.

179
00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,560
Speaker 3: And I like to break this down a bit because

180
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 3: I think that that's one reason why that's happening, and

181
00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,520
Speaker 3: then I think that there are two other, very common.

182
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:00,440
Speaker 4: Reasons why that's current.

183
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,960
Speaker 3: So if so, I guess, follow me if you will.

184
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,120
Speaker 3: The first one being like, it feels good to be

185
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,920
Speaker 3: liked back. And I don't know how many people listening

186
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,000
Speaker 3: to the show could remember Teddy Pendergrast if you even

187
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:13,880
Speaker 3: know who that is.

188
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:14,600
Speaker 1: Uh.

189
00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,520
Speaker 3: If you do, you probably have baby baby boomer parents

190
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,400
Speaker 3: like I do. But he has this show that's I'm sorry.

191
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,080
Speaker 3: He has this song that's called when Somebody Loves You Back,

192
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,240
Speaker 3: and it's one of my favorite old school songs. But

193
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,320
Speaker 3: the line goes, it feels good loving somebody when somebody

194
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,520
Speaker 3: loves you back, and it's just so smooth the way

195
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,920
Speaker 3: he sings it. But but here it's accurate. When you

196
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,240
Speaker 3: when you like someone, it just feels good. So I

197
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,920
Speaker 3: think that that first kind of person that we're thinking

198
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,160
Speaker 3: about here is a person who desires their affection to

199
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,240
Speaker 3: be returned, and so they dive in pretty quickly because

200
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,640
Speaker 3: they desire that feedback, those signs that they're that person's

201
00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,040
Speaker 3: into them, And I think what they really want is reciprocity,

202
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,240
Speaker 3: and some of the ways in which we can slow

203
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,160
Speaker 3: the relationship down to get that reciprocity is to have

204
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:06,280
Speaker 3: those conversations about how the person the other person feels

205
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,920
Speaker 3: and initiate those conversations rather than just kind of trying

206
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,240
Speaker 3: to ride the wave of emotions that kind of takes

207
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,679
Speaker 3: the relationship at top speed. I think the second kind

208
00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,280
Speaker 3: of person that shows up, in my opinion, is a

209
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 3: person that has those fears of the rejection that we

210
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,280
Speaker 3: were talking about. So a person might show up with

211
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,240
Speaker 3: these fears around rejection, but really what I think they

212
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:32,000
Speaker 3: want is some type of safety or security. And the

213
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,959
Speaker 3: way that we can slow relationships down for people who

214
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,120
Speaker 3: are having the security need is to have those initial

215
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 3: conversations pretty early on about where things are headed. So

216
00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 3: that means we can maybe initiate a conversation and say, hey,

217
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:52,280
Speaker 3: so you know, at what point in your dating journey

218
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,120
Speaker 3: do you typically have conversations about what are we like?

219
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,319
Speaker 3: How when do you have the what are we? Conversation?

220
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,640
Speaker 4: It could be very general. I do not suggest saying

221
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,320
Speaker 4: very early on what are we?

222
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,720
Speaker 3: I am saying, have a general conversation that can slow

223
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,960
Speaker 3: things down and make it a co creation around the

224
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:18,560
Speaker 3: relationship future versus leaving that up to chance or leaving

225
00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,400
Speaker 3: it to being one person's responsibility. And then the third

226
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,120
Speaker 3: person that I like to think about when I think

227
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,360
Speaker 3: about rushing in pretty quickly is a person who's just

228
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,360
Speaker 3: trying to go with the flow. I think go with

229
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:35,000
Speaker 3: the flow people in this regard are worried about making

230
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,640
Speaker 3: things too complicated, and often I think that they have

231
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,760
Speaker 3: a need around authenticity. They want the other person to

232
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,520
Speaker 3: be themselves and they want to be received for being themselves,

233
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,840
Speaker 3: and so by going with the flow, they think they're

234
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,360
Speaker 3: accomplishing this. I think the risk here is that we

235
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,000
Speaker 3: can ignore our own authenticity and what we want in

236
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,400
Speaker 3: terms of pacing and timing because we're afraid to have

237
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,119
Speaker 3: a conflict or afraid to speak up. So I typically

238
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,440
Speaker 3: encourage daters to slow things down when they're experiencing this

239
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:15,640
Speaker 3: by having necessary conversations around the relationship through ease and

240
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,360
Speaker 3: compassion if we want there to be ease in the relationship,

241
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 3: and that's our primary desire, keep going with the flow

242
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:26,160
Speaker 3: in how you're having the conversation. Be compassionate, be easy,

243
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,840
Speaker 3: be too in the conversation while still being vulnerable and

244
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 3: open hearted. And I think that accomplishes what we're really

245
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,600
Speaker 3: trying to get at. So I know I said a

246
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 3: lot there, but I hope that everybody has their three

247
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,520
Speaker 3: people in mind and that they're checking where they are.

248
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:44,160
Speaker 4: In that.

249
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,560
Speaker 2: You definitely said a lot, but you said a lot

250
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,760
Speaker 2: that was like all of it was so helpful, And

251
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 2: you know what I really resonated with when you were

252
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,280
Speaker 2: saying that was also like the individual who was anxiously attached.

253
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 2: Right When there are signs that someone is pulling away

254
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,840
Speaker 2: and might be putting distance between you and them for

255
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,800
Speaker 2: whatever reason. Maybe they are busy at work, maybe they

256
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:11,360
Speaker 2: are trying to protect themselves, trying to not get hurt,

257
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 2: we tend to become quite clinging, and we tend to

258
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,400
Speaker 2: like the more they try and pull away, the more

259
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,680
Speaker 2: we try and pull them closer, which inevitably ends up

260
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 2: kind of backfiring, right right, Like It's Yeah, I also

261
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,520
Speaker 2: think that's part of the inclination to really speed up

262
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:35,480
Speaker 2: relationships is I want this person to fall in love

263
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,240
Speaker 2: with me as soon as possible, so that we're out

264
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,200
Speaker 2: of this a weird, awkward stage where I don't feel

265
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,760
Speaker 2: like I can trust them, where I don't have a label,

266
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,360
Speaker 2: where I don't have commitment, and all of those things

267
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,040
Speaker 2: leave me vulnerable to being hurt. So I think, at

268
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,840
Speaker 2: the end of the day, like that all of it

269
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,920
Speaker 2: comes down to I don't want to be hurt. I

270
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,800
Speaker 2: want my needs met, and perhaps I like the feeling

271
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,000
Speaker 2: of being loved back, and so like, let's get to

272
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,160
Speaker 2: that point as soon as possible. And I also liked

273
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,880
Speaker 2: what you said about having a conversation, So I'll talk

274
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:14,080
Speaker 2: about my partner Tom in this instance. When we first met,

275
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 2: I had just had like a string of relationships in

276
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,680
Speaker 2: which there was no commitment. And we talk about, you know,

277
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 2: the slowmance, which we'll get to in a second, And

278
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 2: there is a difference between going slow and also having

279
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 2: absolutely no idea what is going on, and you know

280
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 2: what I mean, and like the timeline just being like

281
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,800
Speaker 2: what this neither ends or begins, so you know what

282
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,160
Speaker 2: I mean. And I think that when I met him,

283
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 2: I was so so aware and so worried about that

284
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,280
Speaker 2: happening again. And I also kind of knew that if

285
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:52,840
Speaker 2: I was to be like, so, what are we like

286
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,720
Speaker 2: within two dates, there was a good chance that he

287
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,160
Speaker 2: was going to be like, Okay, this girl has absolutely

288
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 2: no chill and fleet, which I totally got. And so

289
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,280
Speaker 2: I think it was like around our fifth or sixth date,

290
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:07,879
Speaker 2: and I actually remember where it was. We were in

291
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 2: Bondai in Sydney, and we were eating sushi at a

292
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 2: sushi train and instead of asking the question like what

293
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 2: a wea? I simply was like, this is what I'm

294
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,880
Speaker 2: looking for. And I'm not asking I'm not asking you

295
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 2: to tell me what you feel about that. I'm not

296
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,239
Speaker 2: asking you to give me an answer. I'm just saying, like,

297
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,160
Speaker 2: it's up to you. This is I'm going to give

298
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 2: you the full information. I'm looking for something serious. I

299
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,160
Speaker 2: really like you. I think this is going amazingly well.

300
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,719
Speaker 2: And if you don't think that way, if that's like

301
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,360
Speaker 2: not something that we're on the same page on, maybe

302
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:47,040
Speaker 2: like we should rethink. And he didn't give me an

303
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,080
Speaker 2: answer straight away, and yes that made me anxious, but

304
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 2: he was like he was like, listen, like, I'm really

305
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 2: up to seeing where this goes. I obviously really like you,

306
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,359
Speaker 2: but I don't want to put too much pressure on

307
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,960
Speaker 2: it right now. Is that okay? Can I think about it?

308
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,119
Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, of course you can think

309
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,919
Speaker 2: about it, and you know, flash forward, we're still together

310
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,879
Speaker 2: and like very much in love. So I think that

311
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,440
Speaker 2: what would you say to people who were like, if

312
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:17,640
Speaker 2: I ask too soon, if I want some form of confirmation,

313
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,920
Speaker 2: if I need some form of confirmation, the relationship might end.

314
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 2: What would you say to.

315
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, well one year story is like very powerful

316
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:33,880
Speaker 3: because there it's the imagery that's coming to mind, is

317
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:39,800
Speaker 3: the idea that having that conversation didn't create this a

318
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,800
Speaker 3: period on the relationship. It wasn't like you offered what

319
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 3: you want and then you were just done with him

320
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 3: because he didn't want the same things. There was like

321
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,000
Speaker 3: this comment, there's like this end that's in interjected, and

322
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 3: you keep going with the story and now you have

323
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 3: been together. And so if I'm offering any advice, it's

324
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,160
Speaker 3: really to do a lot more of what you did,

325
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,320
Speaker 3: which is to create that space for that conversation to

326
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,679
Speaker 3: allow it to be ongoing. It doesn't have to be

327
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 3: this one time thing. I think that's often how it's

328
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 3: presented in the world or in movies that you kind

329
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,919
Speaker 3: of say, what are we People say yes or no

330
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 3: and that's it. But it's not yes or no. It's

331
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 3: like more great than that, Like love is more complex

332
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,439
Speaker 3: than that. I can really relate to this story. I

333
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 3: can relate to the first time I asked my now

334
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 3: wife to be my girlfriend, and she was like, h

335
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,280
Speaker 3: ask me again in the morning, Like she don't feel

336
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 3: like she was she had clarity in the moments, so

337
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,439
Speaker 3: she's like, ask me again in the morning. And this

338
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,439
Speaker 3: actually came up again when I asked her to marry me.

339
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 3: She was like, yes, but no right now. And I

340
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,399
Speaker 3: was like kind of devastated in the moment because I

341
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,639
Speaker 3: had only known it's a yes or no. And so

342
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,600
Speaker 3: we went to therapy. In one session, the therapist is like,

343
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,439
Speaker 3: you know, you can just have a long engagement, and

344
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 3: that opened my mind to this comma where there was

345
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 3: a period I'm thinking we're gonna have to end our

346
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 3: relationship and the therapist is gonna tell me, yeah, you know,

347
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 3: she's not the one. And now we've been together, our

348
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 3: dating anniversary is going to be ten years come like

349
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 3: October thirty first, and so it's been a long time

350
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 3: of like commas and ends. And so my advice for

351
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 3: anyone around having these conversations is that they really enrich

352
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 3: the relationship. They build this really strong foundation for your

353
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 3: relationship future if you lean in, if you allow yourself

354
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 3: to be vulnerable, and if you allow yourself to keep

355
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 3: having the conversation because it's not a period.

356
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 2: I absolutely adore that, like the idea that the timeline

357
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:55,199
Speaker 2: needs to be linear and consecutive, and like, okay, so

358
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,479
Speaker 2: what dating and then you're my girlfriend or my boyfriend

359
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 2: and my partner and then okay, this time and there

360
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 2: cannot be any hesitation in that time, and there cannot

361
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 2: be any moments of needing to maybe slow things down

362
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: or to actually think about things. And I'm sure people

363
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 2: are listening to this being like no, you know, if

364
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 2: you know you know no.

365
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 3: I love your earlier example of how there needs to

366
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 3: be boundaries because you know there could be scenarios where

367
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,439
Speaker 3: you know there you said there was no starter or

368
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 3: no ends. I love as you said that, because some

369
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,120
Speaker 3: relationships can feel like they don't have any time boundaries

370
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 3: at all. And I certainly think in those instances it's

371
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 3: important to get clear on if you're even working toward

372
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 3: the same things, if you even want the same things.

373
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 3: But in these scenarios it's a matter of timing. Think

374
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 3: you'll know that by having the conversation.

375
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 2: No, exactly, I completely agree. And also I think that

376
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 2: everyone's relationship is different, right and just because and sometimes

377
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 2: I think I'm scared for the people who experience that

378
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 2: really fast intensity, like hyper intense early days, and the

379
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 2: saying is always like what burns brightest, burns out quickest.

380
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 2: I think that's the way to go. And I think

381
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 2: our society has very much sold us this idea of

382
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 2: romantic love as being this like when you know you

383
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: know a thing, you're immediately Like I saw this quote

384
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 2: the other day. It's like when you see them in

385
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 2: your future, you want the future to start right now,

386
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 2: This idea of like passion and intensity and like attraction.

387
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 2: And yes, of course I want to move in with you,

388
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 2: and of course I want to fall in love and

389
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,959
Speaker 2: let's have children. But what are the benefits that you

390
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 2: have seen? What are the benefits for the longevity and

391
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 2: the sustainability and the health of a relationship from embracing

392
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 2: a slomance from kind of slowing it down, not going

393
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 2: with the flow, but just letting taking the scenic route.

394
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 2: Let's say it that way.

395
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a beautiful and powerful, poignant question. We think

396
00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 3: about longevity and relationship. I really believe that the foundation

397
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 3: of relationship is a It looks a lot like friendship.

398
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 3: There's a lot of there are a lot of those

399
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 3: qualities there, this good communication, this intimacy around emotionality, the safety,

400
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 3: the space holding, the empathy. We could just keep going

401
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 3: on and on. That's what we need for our relationships

402
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 3: to grow and expand over time. Otherwise we have relationships

403
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 3: that are stagnant, conflictual, and stubbm er, not growing, not changing.

404
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 3: So when we think about why slowmanans is so important,

405
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 3: it's because it allows for us to take the time

406
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 3: necessary to build those foundational skills necessary for long term partnership.

407
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 3: We were not born with a manual for how to

408
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 3: be the best partner to our partners, let alone like ourselves.

409
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 3: We're learning self love, usually all together collectively, and we

410
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 3: were not even born with a manual for that. We

411
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 3: don't have a manual for how to be the best partner.

412
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 3: So we are learning as we grow, and these foundational

413
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 3: these foundational things that we're building through slow mans, but

414
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 3: through taking our time, through prioritizing humor and building rapport

415
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 3: and focusing on levity in the relationship early on give

416
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 3: us a nice cushion for all the stuff that life

417
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,479
Speaker 3: throws at us along the way. Because your partner and

418
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 3: you clearly have this foundation for communication really early on

419
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 3: your relationship. You could have that conversation and say, you

420
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 3: know what, this is what I want and you felt

421
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 3: comfortable to do so, and he felt comfortable being honest.

422
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 4: I think that is a.

423
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 3: Show that you all have created this space for integrity

424
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 3: in your relationship, and that is really essential for anyone

425
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 3: to make it long term. So it's really creates the

426
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 3: space for us to do that intentional work without being

427
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 3: distracted by where we're going to be twenty years from now.

428
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 3: We're getting really deep, really fast.

429
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 2: Mmmm oh my god. I absolutely, I'm just like nodding

430
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: my head to every single thing that you're saying right now. Yes,

431
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 2: that's correct, that's correct. I also think that you kind

432
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 2: of want to know that you actually are compatible with them, right,

433
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: Like that's the other big thing, Like I always say

434
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 2: this on the show, but chemistry doesn't equal compatibility.

435
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 4: There are so true.

436
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are so many people that of course you're

437
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: going to have like an amazing spark with, of course

438
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: they're going to look like, of course you're going to

439
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: be attracted to them. But is that the same as

440
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 2: if this is what you want being able to build

441
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: a life with them. Also, like those I don't know

442
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 2: about you, but those early days in a relationship, I

443
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: still think back on them and think they were so

444
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 2: wonderful and having all those Yeah, having all those firsts

445
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: and having all those like moments of like exploration and

446
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 2: we're getting to know each other, and every story he

447
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: tells you or they tell you is a new story

448
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: and it's just like and it's so fun and like

449
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: you go to the movies together and like they like

450
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 2: touch your leg for the first time and you're like

451
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 2: a teenager again. Like there's so much beauty and joy

452
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 2: in enjoying those moments rather than trying to speed things up.

453
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: Like is that something that you found as well?

454
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely there's one.

455
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 3: There's this dreaming quality to how you're describing it, And

456
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 3: I love it because I really have found with working

457
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 3: with a lot of couples over the years, well, actually

458
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 3: a lot of people in all kinds of relationship configurations,

459
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 3: that those early memories, those early conversations, like all of

460
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,959
Speaker 3: that connection you're talking about, really do serve as this

461
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 3: cushion for the relationship later. So if I imagine me

462
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 3: sitting in a room with two other people who are

463
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 3: in constant conflict in their relationship, and I take a

464
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 3: moment where they could have been arguing for thirty minutes

465
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 3: in my office, I take a moment and I just

466
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 3: ask them to think about why they got together, Like,

467
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 3: tell me why you all got together in the first place.

468
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 4: I might say something sassy like that to try to

469
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 4: change the energy.

470
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 3: And usually the thought of why we got together in

471
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 3: the first place brings smiles, It brings laughter, it brings

472
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 3: joy because quite often people associate so much positivity and

473
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 3: warmth with those early relationship beginnings. So when we think

474
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 3: about Slowman's again, it's important that we're prioritizing, savoring that,

475
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 3: capturing as much of that as possible, being present to it,

476
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 3: not being distracted, really leaning in with an open heart,

477
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: because that time passes and eventually you get to doing

478
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 3: life and all of the other things, and it's just

479
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 3: so meaningful to have that, say, somewhere in your memory

480
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 3: so you can access it when times get hard.

481
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 2: That is such a beautiful sentiment. And you know what,

482
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to steal that advice and use it for

483
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: everyone whoever comes to me with relationship problems like why

484
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: did you why did you even start dating in the

485
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 2: first place? Like why are you together?

486
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 3: There's usually a good reason, and usually the things that

487
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 3: they're complaining about are things that they loved before, or

488
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 3: there were things that were there from the beginning, but

489
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 3: they found some way of empathizing with those things early

490
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 3: on that they can access again.

491
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of this theory called fatal attraction theory?

492
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 4: I have not heard of the theory. I'm part of

493
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 4: the concept. Tell me more.

494
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: Okay, So basically this theory, it's it was proposed by

495
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: this woman back in like the nineties. And essentially what

496
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 2: she says, this woman, I should say, she's a doctor PhD.

497
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: So I'm going to check myself there. She's just a girl. No,

498
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: she's a well educated lady. And she basically was observing

499
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 2: these relationships amongst these people that she was seeing on

500
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: a college campus and what she was observing was that

501
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 2: and amongst her own friends and all that, and what

502
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: she was observing was actually, the reason that we end

503
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: up breaking up with somebody is normally due to something

504
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: that we first really loved, and it's called the fatal attractor.

505
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: So you know, you love that your partner is so

506
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: like spontaneous, and you love that they like are always

507
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: you know, surprising you with things and that they really

508
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 2: go with the flow, and you love that about them,

509
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: that energy. But then later on you're like, well, actually, no,

510
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 2: I want so where are we going to dinner tonight?

511
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: Like I have work, I need to know the time,

512
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: And they're like, oh wherever, Like let's just be spontaneous.

513
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: It's like, no, this is actually like detrimental to our relationship.

514
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 2: Or you know, you really like the person who is

515
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: really into like work, and you like that they're so

516
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: motivated and you like that they're so focused, but actually

517
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: that ends up meaning that they spend a lot less

518
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: time with you. And so that's that's like exactly what

519
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: I'm hearing in what you're saying is yes, so often

520
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: like yes, the thing that we often struggle with most

521
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: later on is something that has always been there and

522
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: it's about being like, okay, but there was something in

523
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: that that I loved. There was something in that that

524
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 2: really drew me to them. And if you don't have

525
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: that slow start, how are you going to have taken

526
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: the time to have processed that, you know what I mean?

527
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so important.

528
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 3: I love thank you for sharing their federal attraction theory,

529
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: and I love thinking about this idea of really getting

530
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: to know someone, getting a full picture of who they are.

531
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 3: A lot of times, who were meeting a person, we

532
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 3: have a lot of expectations about who they'll be. If

533
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,959
Speaker 3: people are honest, many people come to relationships with some

534
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: type of list these days, or some type of expectations

535
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: or desires. And I think that on the head, that's

536
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: totally fine. Sometimes where that is difficult is that we

537
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 3: all have these expectations about who a person should be

538
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: for us, or we we need them to fit these

539
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 3: categories or check these boxes, and that sometimes prevents us

540
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 3: from actually seeing them for who they are, even if

541
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 3: they match all of the boxes that we want them

542
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 3: to check. Who are they as like a soul, as

543
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: an individual, as a being, What makes them smile? What

544
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 3: makes them sad? Like we don't know those things usually

545
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 3: by just you know, meeting the qualifications of where they

546
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 3: went to school and all of these other things. And

547
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 3: so it's really important for us to really look at

548
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: a person, get to know them in a genuine way,

549
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: in an authentic way.

550
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: Mmmm oh yeah again, agree, agree, agree, I'm just full

551
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: of positive statements about this, sir. Let's move on to

552
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: practical because I feel like we've talked a lot about

553
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: the theory and a lot about like I've been in

554
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: the clouds a little bit.

555
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 4: So I love it.

556
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I met too. It's kind of nice.

557
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 4: I do appreciate it.

558
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 2: But how is it that we can really have a

559
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: soft stop when it feels so unnatural to slow things down?

560
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 2: How do we embrace how do we embrace that that

561
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 2: need to have a slow bone.

562
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 4: To go slow? Yeah.

563
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 3: So, some of my advice when meeting someone initially, let's

564
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 3: say you met them on the hinge. Some of my

565
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: advice initially is to prioritize humor in those early conversations

566
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 3: because our focus early on is connection. We want to

567
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: so the first thing I'll say is humor, because humor

568
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 3: really is disarming. It builds rapport, and rapport is essential

569
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 3: for someone to feel comfortable around us, comfortable opening up. Second,

570
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 3: I'll say it's important to prioritize sharing your ideals and

571
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 3: values with someone early on. People want to have things

572
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: in common with the people that they're getting to know.

573
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 3: So if you can prioritize sharing those things on your

574
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,239
Speaker 3: profile or even in your early communication, I think you

575
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 3: have a better chance of really one displaying yourself authentically,

576
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 3: but also allowing another person to see you early on.

577
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 3: I think it's the third thing that I'd like people

578
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: to prioritize when when engaging in a soft start is

579
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 3: lightness and levity. Now I want when you think light

580
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 3: or likeness or levity, I want you to think soft

581
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 3: for real, don't think shallow, because the goal is still

582
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 3: to be deep. There's nothing wrong with being deep. We

583
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 3: don't want to be so deep where we're saying in

584
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: that initial conversation with someone, why did your last relationship end?

585
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 3: We want to still be deep in the like in

586
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 3: a you know, seeing you made me really smile today,

587
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 3: Like in a very genuine, involmental way. So there are

588
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 3: ways to be deep that are not deep on the trauma.

589
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 3: By the end, you know, it's like deep in a

590
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 3: very grounded in present.

591
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 2: Way, Like I also think it's about steering away from

592
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 2: things that you'll get to eventually and spending a lot

593
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 2: of time on the things that people kind of rush past, right,

594
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: like Okay, what are your hobbies? You know, like on

595
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: a first day, people alway's like, what are your hobbies?

596
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I like boxing and like running. Okay, that's

597
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: really cool, and what do you for And it's like, okay,

598
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: we speak past of that. And if you go, oh

599
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 2: my god, so when was your first boxing class?

600
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: What?

601
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: Why do you like that so much? Like is there

602
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 2: something do you really like expressing yourself physically? That kind

603
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: of that feels like I come on to be honest,

604
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: but you know what I mean. But you know, yeah,

605
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 2: accidental and that kind of stuff. But it's like, spend

606
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: more time getting deep about the things that feel shallow.

607
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: Is like what I'm here? You say the other thing,

608
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: like I was reflecting on it, and honestly, I was

609
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 2: reflecting on in the sense that I did this wrong.

610
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 2: Maybe not wrong, but I definitely made this mistake. Don't

611
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 2: sacrifice your independent life too quickly, and don't don't I

612
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,959
Speaker 2: get the feeling of being like I want to see

613
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 2: you every day. I want to I want to, of course,

614
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 2: I want to go on a date with you every

615
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 2: night of the week. I want you to stay over.

616
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: But if you're like canceling plans with your friends to

617
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: do that, if you're leaving things early to do that,

618
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: I think what that indicates to me. And I will

619
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 2: say I am guilty of doing that. When I first

620
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: started dating Tom, I did that all the not all

621
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: the time, but there were definitely moments I had to

622
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 2: catch myself, And I think what that ends up happening,

623
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: What ends up occurring as a result of that, is

624
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: that pretty quickly they're everything. They consume all other dimensions

625
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 2: of who you are, because you know your friends are

626
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: only going to be responsive to you canceling plans so

627
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 2: many times, They're only going to invite you so many

628
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: times if you ditch them to go and hang out

629
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: with this person that you met like three weeks ago

630
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: on a dating app. Right, And so I think that

631
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: it's about and I say this all the time, like

632
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 2: you can't be a partner without being a person, and

633
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: you have to maintain those like individual parts of yourself.

634
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 2: Do you have any other advice on how to do that?

635
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 2: In the early days.

636
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 3: I think my advice when we're in those early stages

637
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 3: is to have fun. I really I'm stuck on what

638
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 3: you're saying, though, because I'm like, yeah, that actually needs

639
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 3: to be like number one, scoot that to the top

640
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 3: of the list. Not losing yourself in that. It takes

641
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 3: time to integrate people into our lives. It takes time

642
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 3: for them to become like a steady person in a

643
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 3: very intentional and grounded way.

644
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 4: So I totally agree.

645
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 3: Then I think fun is really important, So I want

646
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 3: to scoot that up to the top of the list.

647
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 3: Remembering to have fun, especially when so many people are

648
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 3: erencing burnout or so many people are struggling in relationships,

649
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 3: fun can really be can really infuse the early relationship

650
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 3: with the kind of connection that takes it to the

651
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 3: next level. Sometimes what we're missing in our connections is fun.

652
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 3: We forget that dating like, yes, it's a big important

653
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 3: thing in our life, but it's supposed to be adding

654
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 3: to our lives and not taking away, And so this

655
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 3: fun piece is important while we're also being serious many

656
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 3: of us. I'm sure I would be doing this too,

657
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 3: especially after being a therapist so long, and I have

658
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 3: moments of being too serious.

659
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 4: I would show up. Let's say it's me.

660
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 3: I would show up to a date and be like

661
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 3: focused on sharing my intentions. But and it's very like dryway,

662
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 3: like this is what I'm looking for? What are you

663
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: looking for? And I forget to like laugh, to joke

664
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:04,439
Speaker 3: about things, or to people watch with them or talk

665
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 3: about something funny I heard.

666
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 4: And so.

667
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just a strong believer these days and like

668
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 3: loosening up and really enjoying the journey. It can feel

669
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 3: counter when there are these hurts we experienced along the way.

670
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 3: So I try to experience new relationships of all kinds

671
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 3: as new relationships, and so let them be new. That

672
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 3: means let yourself be new in the new connections as well,

673
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 3: and have fun.

674
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: And I remember you said something earlier that I loved,

675
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: which was it should look a lot like a friendship,

676
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 2: and like that's a huge part of friendship, right, It's

677
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 2: like laughing and having fun with somebody, and like experiencing

678
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 2: joy and play playing and like going on an adventure

679
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 2: and like just being outdoors with whatever it is is

680
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 2: also so important. I think the other thing I would

681
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 2: say is try and do daytime dates.

682
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 4: Daytime dates.

683
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Are you a big proponent of the daytime date?

684
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 2: I absolutely love it. First of all, some people we

685
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 2: need to be going to sleep a little earlier. Some

686
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: of us are not getting enough rest. So I and

687
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: I am one of those people.

688
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 3: Daytime though, I have so much energy, Like in ther

689
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 3: catch me in the morning, I'm like dancing, I'm like

690
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 3: I'm loose, and so I think what you're getting for

691
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 3: me is like knowing yourself, knowing whether you're a morning

692
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 3: person a night person, and that can change depending on

693
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 3: what your workloading is or whatever.

694
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 4: Go on dates when you can give your best.

695
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: This is counter though, I think to a lot of

696
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 3: the relationship conversations that are happening out there where people are.

697
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 4: Like, don't take me on a breakfast date.

698
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 3: I know, but our reports actually show that the number

699
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 3: one low pressure date spot for queer hande daters was

700
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 3: a coffee shop. So for queer daters coffee shops there

701
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 3: are definitely places for solid connection and I'm hoping more people.

702
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 3: I think that could be for all daters without these

703
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 3: kinds of stigmas attached to them.

704
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and I actually have a friend. Her name

705
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: is Chandera and she talks about this a lot, and

706
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 2: we definitely disagree on it. I have a lot of

707
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 2: love for her, and she's always like, don't take me

708
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: on a walk. A walk is not a day. Coffee

709
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 2: is not a day. And I was like, no, I

710
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 2: totally get why why you're saying that, But this is

711
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: like when you already kind of know that you like

712
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 2: the person. And also, like in this economy, dinner and

713
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 2: drinks is expensive. It's expensive, you end up being tired,

714
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 2: and then maybe you have a couple too many. Like

715
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: if you're too many drinks, you're a bit drunk, you're

716
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: a bit tipsy, like you're full, you're sleepy. It's like

717
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: and like during the daytime, it's like that's ow human hours.

718
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 2: That's what I always say to people, Like that's like

719
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: the time when you're the most energized. You can go

720
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: outdoors and you could just even if it's wet and

721
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 2: cold and rainy and snowy. Like, yeah, it creates play

722
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 2: within us and it creates connection. But like maybe I'll

723
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 2: get damns from people being like if somebody asked me

724
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: how to like if somebody asked me to the park,

725
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 2: I would be saying absolutely not, absolutely no way to that,

726
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: and I get it be safe, but it could be

727
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: a you know, a picnic in the park, you know,

728
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 2: live music in the park.

729
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 4: Maybe we have some qualifiers. It can be like pretty cute.

730
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 3: And for anybody that's trying to decenter, like maybe not decenter,

731
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 3: but trying to slow things down when it comes to

732
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 3: physical relationships, maybe they're the person that's often quick to

733
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 3: a sexual relationship. I think daytime dates can naturally kind

734
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 3: of shift that energy because we're so conditioned to think

735
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 3: nighttime is sexy, and so when we go on daytime dates,

736
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 3: they're often and even time parameters on the days, and

737
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 3: we know we'll be together for a couple of hours

738
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 3: and they will part ways, and so it kind of

739
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 3: helps to put those natural boundaries in place if we

740
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 3: are trying to be intentional about slowing down the physical connection.

741
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm, well.

742
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 2: There we go. There's your the low pressure first date,

743
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 2: low pressure dates. And I love what you me too,

744
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 2: and I love like I will say me and Tom,

745
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: I keep saying Tom, and then my partner hopefully by

746
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: now they know his name. But something that that was

747
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 2: our second date was we went and had a picnic

748
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 2: at beautiful this like beach lookout in the coast, like

749
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 2: around the coast of Australia, and we made it really

750
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 2: fun where we were like each of us has to

751
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 2: bring like snacks and some food and a drink, and

752
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 2: but we were like it has to be something that

753
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 2: we've never tried before. It was like the food that

754
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: we that we bring is something that we've never had,

755
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: something super strange or different or new. And it was

756
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 2: like okay, so like yeah, we're outside, we were enjoying

757
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 2: the sunshine. But then also like we had this like

758
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: joint experience pretty early on that was fun. Again, it

759
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 2: was fun. It was like a bit different and maybe

760
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 2: it's a bit lame to people, but I don't know,

761
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: it worked for me. I'm still with him. He's like

762
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 2: the love of my life, and like we actually got

763
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 2: to know each other through those moments, which was really special.

764
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

765
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, it's a beautiful example of thinking creatively about

766
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 3: that low pressure date. But I would say like, and

767
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 3: I would add that for anybody who's struggling to think

768
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 3: that that's a quality date, think about the intention, Like

769
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 3: what is it that you want to.

770
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 4: What is it that you really want from the date.

771
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 3: Sometimes I think people are focused on how much a

772
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 3: person spends on the date as a measure of whether

773
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 3: or not they're intentional or invested. And I think you

774
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 3: can assess that investment in other ways.

775
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 4: When you're on that.

776
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 3: Beautiful picnic at this gorgeous beach, lookout, how long they're

777
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 3: staring into your eyes, how many smiles you exchange, how

778
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 3: deeply they listen to your heartfelt stories from childhood. That

779
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 3: all tells you that person is intentional. And so I

780
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 3: want anybody listening to think about measuring this intention in

781
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 3: a different way, because I think these early dates could

782
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 3: be that are more low pressure, could help us to

783
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 3: communicate and engage in a different way.

784
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 2: I think that it is like the most beautiful sentiment

785
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 2: to finish on. But actually I do want to ask

786
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 2: you one more question. Aside from the slow man's the

787
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 2: slow burne, the low pressure, Fied states, I feel like

788
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: we've been very much like take it slow and make

789
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 2: it lost. What would be your other biggest piece of

790
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 2: advice for dating in your twenties.

791
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 3: Ooh, I'm so happy you ask, because earlier in the year,

792
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 3: hinge to really these the gen Z Day reports. So

793
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 3: if anybody listening has not seen that, I encourage you

794
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 3: to go check that out. The gen z Day report

795
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 3: actually uncovered that ninety percent of gen z Hinge daters

796
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 3: are actually looking for love, but their collective worries around

797
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 3: rejection we're actually getting in the way, preventing them from

798
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 3: initiating these really important conversations or even talking to the

799
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 3: people that they like. And so my advice for anyone

800
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 3: dating in their twenties are these three things. First, embrace

801
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 3: cringe mode. So if something feels cringey, if you're worried

802
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 3: about rejection, my advice is to embrace this feeling because

803
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 3: it's just telling you that what you're really wanting is

804
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 3: what you're really wanting is connection. And we should prioritize

805
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 3: what we want over what we don't want. That's how

806
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 3: we create what we want. So then the second things

807
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 3: I encourage you to do is to be upfront in

808
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:04,240
Speaker 3: your digital body language. People in their twenties are way

809
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 3: more keenly aware of deciphering at deciphering text messages, emojis,

810
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 3: what people mean when they're not saying anything, What those

811
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 3: dots mean when they appear and they go away all

812
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 3: of their things. So we're calling that dbl at his

813
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 3: that stands for digital body language. I encourage people in

814
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 3: their twenties to just be very clear about your own DBL,

815
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 3: what you're communicating, when you're not actually communicating, what you're

816
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 3: communicating with those emojis, all of the things, all the

817
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 3: subtle cues that you're sending, because the more clear that

818
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 3: you can be, the more of the good vibes that

819
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 3: you're sending out to other people. And then the third

820
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 3: thing would be to I don't want you to be

821
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 3: afraid anymore to initiate those conversations around like what are

822
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 3: we If you're really wanting to know where a relationship

823
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 3: is going, somebody has to make that first step.

824
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 4: And what we found in the.

825
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: Gen Z Date report is that people are waiting for

826
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 3: the other person to do it. So we need to

827
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 3: go ahead and just make it known that if you

828
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 3: make that initiative, very likely there's someone on the other

829
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 3: end of that waiting to have had that conversation too.

830
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 2: My gosh, absolutely spot on. I just want to say

831
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 2: thank you again for coming on and for sharing your

832
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 2: amazing insights. This is actually just also such a fun conversation.

833
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 2: You're so wise and just like brought such a fun

834
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 2: energy to dating, which sometimes we don't have, you know,

835
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 2: sometimes it feels very serious. So where can they find you?

836
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: Where can they follow you? Where can they hear more

837
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: from you? Yay?

838
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me.

839
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 3: I can be found on Instagram and love the Out Proud,

840
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 3: so check me out. I Love out Proud. I also

841
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 3: co host a podcast with my wife called be Your

842
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 3: Own Love Goals Podcast with mo Iri and Tiffany, and

843
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 3: you can check us out on all the major streams platforms.

844
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 3: But we're also on Instagram at be your Own Love Goals.

845
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 3: So if you want to check out some cute couples content,

846
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 3: you want more lifestyle advice things for me, please connect

847
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 3: with me on social media. I'd love, you know, connecting

848
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 3: with people, and I'm looking forward to it.

849
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 2: I really hope that they do. And I'm actually really

850
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 2: keen to go and listen to your podcast now. I

851
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 2: feel like I could do some some more like wise

852
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 2: fun advice. Well, thank you again to I'll love my guest,

853
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: and as always, if you enjoyed this episode, please feel

854
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 2: free to give a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

855
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 2: wherever you're listening right now. It really helps the show

856
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 2: to grow and reach new people. If there was someone

857
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 2: who needs advice on slowing things down, maybe pointedly, maybe

858
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 2: not so pointantly, send them this episode. They might benefit

859
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 2: from it. And if you have an episode suggestion, if

860
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: you maybe just agree with our advice, or you agree

861
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 2: very highly, please shoop me a message at that psychology podcast.

862
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 2: I would love to hear from you. And until then,

863
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 2: stay safe, be kind, and of course be gentle to yourself,

864
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 2: and we will talk very soon.

865
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 3: H