Speaker 1: This is It's okay that You're not okay, and I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Megan Divine. This week it is all about boundaries,
Speaker 1: how to make them, how to keep them, and sometimes
Speaker 1: how to break them, with special guest doctor Alexander Solomon,
Speaker 1: host of the podcast Reimagining Love. Stay tuned. Everybody will
Speaker 1: be right back after this first break before we get started.
Speaker 1: Two quick notes. One, this episode is an encore performance.
Speaker 1: I am on break working on a giant new project,
Speaker 1: so we're releasing a mix of our favorite episodes from
Speaker 1: the first three seasons of the show. This episode is
Speaker 1: from season one, in which I answered listener questions, sometimes
Speaker 1: on my own, sometimes for the guest. So if you
Speaker 1: want more of these Q and A style episodes, you
Speaker 1: can find the entire collection from season one wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Second note, while we cover a lot
Speaker 1: of emotional relational territory in our time here together, this
Speaker 1: show is not a substitute for skilled support for the
Speaker 1: license mental health provider, or for professional supervision related to
Speaker 1: your work. I really want you to take what you
Speaker 1: learn here, take your thoughts and your reflections out into
Speaker 1: your own world and talk about it all. Hey, friends,
Speaker 1: So one of the questions I get asked the most
Speaker 1: often is some variation of how do I get this
Speaker 1: person to do what I want them to do when
Speaker 1: they don't want to do it. That sounds a little
Speaker 1: bit creepy, right, It sounds manipulative. How do I get
Speaker 1: this person to do what I want them to do
Speaker 1: and they don't want to do it. Here's the thing, though,
Speaker 1: it's normal for people to want things from other people,
Speaker 1: things like connection or some kind of action or a
Speaker 1: change in behavior. Requests of other people are not manipulative,
Speaker 1: not by their very basic nature. That relational give and
Speaker 1: take between people is normal. But it does get tricky
Speaker 1: when you've got conflicting needs and interests that result in
Speaker 1: some relational lines drawn in the sand that might not
Speaker 1: feel very good. So we either need to create boundaries
Speaker 1: in order to keep somebody out of our lives or
Speaker 1: some aspect of our lives, or we're encountering barrier somebody
Speaker 1: else has put up when we'd really like to be
Speaker 1: let back in. Now, I've actually put off a show
Speaker 1: on interpersonal boundaries for a bit, waiting for just the
Speaker 1: right guest to dive into the tricky territory boundaries and
Speaker 1: relationships are really messy. So you know who I turned
Speaker 1: to when relationships get complicated, Doctor Alexandra Solomon. Doctor Solomon
Speaker 1: is one of the most trusted voices in the world
Speaker 1: on relationships, and her work on relational self awareness has
Speaker 1: reached millions of people around the world. She's a licensed
Speaker 1: clinical psychologist at the Family Institute at Northwestern University and
Speaker 1: the author of two best selling books, Loving Bravely and
Speaker 1: Taking Sexy Back. You might know her from her popular
Speaker 1: Instagram channel or from her podcast Reimagining Love. Doctor Solomon
Speaker 1: and I recorded an episode for her podcast a few
Speaker 1: weeks ago, and now she is back in the studio
Speaker 1: with me for this week's show. Alexander, I am so
Speaker 1: glad to be together with you again, one of my
Speaker 1: favorite people in the world.
Speaker 2: I like where this relationship is heading. I'm here for it.
Speaker 2: I love this.
Speaker 1: We're a relationship building right now on air. Everybody, Okay.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things about your work is how
Speaker 1: you dive straight into the complicated heart of things. It's
Speaker 1: also why we're friends. So no fluff or anything. On
Speaker 1: your website you wrote something really interesting. You said, our
Speaker 1: best and bravest work is to practice relational self awareness.
Speaker 1: So that we can meet differences with curiosity and compassion
Speaker 1: rather than criticism and derision. So that is a bit
Speaker 1: of a mouthful if you're trying to follow that. Everybody
Speaker 1: a bit of a mouthful out of context. But you
Speaker 1: and I are about to dive into some complex interpersonal
Speaker 1: boundary work. So can you tell me a little bit
Speaker 1: about how you see that relational self awareness as like,
Speaker 1: I don't know the gateway to navigating differences with curiosity
Speaker 1: rather than criticism. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: Relational self awareness is the through line of all of
Speaker 2: the work that I do. And one of the principles
Speaker 2: of relational self awareness is that we are willing again
Speaker 2: and again to kind of run a complicated relationship dynamic
Speaker 2: through the following formula that I call the golden equation
Speaker 2: of love my stuff plus your stuff equals our stuff.
Speaker 2: It's so easy in relationship to get caught up in
Speaker 2: these cycles of blame and shame. Blame is when I imagine
Speaker 2: that our stuff is because of your stuff, right. Shame
Speaker 2: is when I believe that our stuff is because of
Speaker 2: my stuff. And so we come back to curiosity and
Speaker 2: care and mindfulness when we piece apart. Okay, So what
Speaker 2: am I bringing into this dynamic? And what are you
Speaker 2: bringing to this dynamic? And how is that creating the
Speaker 2: heatree dish? You know of interplay where I'm misunderstanding you
Speaker 2: and you're misunderstanding me, and I'm stepping all over your
Speaker 2: old wounds and you're stepping all over my old wounds.
Speaker 2: Those are the conversations where we don't fall into easy answers.
Speaker 2: We sit in the complexity. Yeah, and I love that.
Speaker 1: What did you call it? The golden equation of relationships?
Speaker 2: The golden equation of love?
Speaker 1: The golden equation of love. I love. I love love equations,
Speaker 1: the only kind of math I really like. What I
Speaker 1: really really like about what you just said is, you know,
Speaker 1: this tendency we have because we are human is to
Speaker 1: think that either everything is all about us, or everything
Speaker 1: is all about the other person, right, they're doing this
Speaker 1: terrible thing to me, or I'm not getting what I
Speaker 1: want in this relationship because I'm doing something horrible. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've said this a million times, like binaries don't work
Speaker 1: on humans at all. And this one person is all
Speaker 1: right and the other person is all wrong. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a binary system that doesn't work right.
Speaker 2: That's right exactly. And I think sometimes we miss it
Speaker 2: because by the time we start analyzing what's going on,
Speaker 2: we've become so polarized, right, our positions have we've become
Speaker 2: cut off from each other, or we've said things that
Speaker 2: are so big and so extreme. You know, I spend
Speaker 2: so much time in therapy and teaching rewinding the tape,
Speaker 2: right rewinding, So in chapter five it looks like you
Speaker 2: are behaving like a complete a hole. But in chapter one,
Speaker 2: you know, I said something that hurt your feelings and
Speaker 2: you bit your tongue and then you pulled back, and
Speaker 2: when you pulled back, then I pursued, and when I pursued,
Speaker 2: and then we got to the point where we were
Speaker 2: so polarized. So it's that a lot of that, like
Speaker 2: looking in the rear view mirror to understand how did
Speaker 2: we get here? In the service of going forward, right,
Speaker 2: we don't look in the rear y mirror in order
Speaker 2: to assign ultimate blame. We look in the rear view
Speaker 2: mirror to see what was the first moment of misunderstanding
Speaker 2: that we didn't tend to, What was the first moment
Speaker 2: where I bit my tongue instead of inviting you to
Speaker 2: sit with me in a little bit of truth, and
Speaker 2: that's oftentimes what leads up to these big the big explosion,
Speaker 2: the big cut off, the big drama. Yeah. So a
Speaker 2: lot of us this sort of like relational detective work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I love that the way that you talk
Speaker 1: about that it's rooted in kindness, right, It's actually rooted
Speaker 1: in loving action. That we're not sort of doing this
Speaker 1: relational review in order to find more facts to persecute
Speaker 1: somebody more fully, or to persecute ourselves more fully. We're
Speaker 1: really doing this as a way of looking at what's
Speaker 1: actually happening here, and how do we treat what's happening
Speaker 1: with kindness and tenderness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I feel like I'm sure you feel
Speaker 2: like this too, Like as a therapist, like I have
Speaker 2: infinite compacts. Like when I'm sitting with a couple, Oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, I my heart is just like wide open
Speaker 2: to both people right about. Oh my god, that moment
Speaker 2: must have been so painful for you. In this moment
Speaker 2: must have been so painful for you, right that it's
Speaker 2: it's not hard to hold. I mean, sometimes the things
Speaker 2: we do when we feel hurt are really gnarly and
Speaker 2: shady McGrady. But the pain underneath, the self protective strategy,
Speaker 2: the pain underneath it's so easy to have infinite amounts
Speaker 2: of compassion for I felt so unseen, I felt so devalued,
Speaker 2: I felt so afraid of losing you. Right, those kind
Speaker 2: of core tender pieces just pull you know so much
Speaker 2: compassion forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, these are the complex interpersonal and personal
Speaker 1: relationship issues that you deal with with such I don't
Speaker 1: know the word I want here, like precise compassion. I
Speaker 1: really really love that about your your language and your
Speaker 1: approach here. So that foundation that you have of greeting
Speaker 1: those complex interpersonal relationship issues with both kindness and self
Speaker 1: awareness is obviously why I wanted to have you on
Speaker 1: specifically this week to talk about some challenging interpersonal boundary stuff.
Speaker 1: This week, we've got two listener questions related to keeping
Speaker 1: someone in your life when they really aren't so happy
Speaker 1: to be there, and then cutting somebody out of your
Speaker 1: life when they really want to stay close to you.
Speaker 1: So two big, thorny boundary interpersonal issues. You ready to
Speaker 1: dive into the first.
Speaker 2: One with me? I'm so ready. Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's do it. So this listener wrote, I have
Speaker 1: two adult step daughters that have cut me out of
Speaker 1: their lives since my husband passed away from sudden cardiac
Speaker 1: arrest late last year. I feel like I want to
Speaker 1: reach out to them, but I have so many concerns
Speaker 1: about how to do this. We haven't had any contact
Speaker 1: since about a month after he died. My husband's birthday
Speaker 1: is coming up, and I would really like to reach
Speaker 1: out to his daughters. But should I, If I do,
Speaker 1: what do I say? I doubt myself in everything these days?
Speaker 1: So where do we go with this?
Speaker 2: There's a lot of layers here that I'm really I'm
Speaker 2: grateful that she sent this question to you, because I
Speaker 2: think this is going to land. I think different parts
Speaker 2: of it will land, you know, for different listeners. You know,
Speaker 2: I was so touched in this last sentence of I
Speaker 2: doubt myself self and everything these days, And I know
Speaker 2: you have so much to say about grief and self doubt. Right.
Speaker 2: This is while she probably she was a stepmom for
Speaker 2: some length of time, and it was very likely the
Speaker 2: first time in her life she ever had been a stepmom, which,
Speaker 2: by the way, I think is probably one of, if
Speaker 2: not the most difficult role in the family system, and
Speaker 2: so that was her first time being a stepmom, and
Speaker 2: then she lost her husband, and so it is her
Speaker 2: first time being a widow, and so self doubt makes
Speaker 2: so much sense. It's so understandable because these are spaces
Speaker 2: she has not been in before, right, and her emotions
Speaker 2: are big and I'm sure threatened to overwhelm her at times,
Speaker 2: and now she's approaching the first birthday without her husband.
Speaker 1: There are so many different moving parts to this. I
Speaker 1: love that you said this is the first time she's
Speaker 1: had to do these roles or sort of act in
Speaker 1: these roles, and that is something that we don't want
Speaker 1: to underestimate the power of or the pressure of, to
Speaker 1: be honest, like, I don't want to this up. I
Speaker 1: need to do this correctly, And I really hear that
Speaker 1: in this listener's question, like tell me exactly what I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to do here, because this relationship is really important
Speaker 1: to me and I don't want to screw it up.
Speaker 2: We're talking a bit more of these days about cutoffs,
Speaker 2: and my understanding of the research around cutoffs, is this
Speaker 2: the way this one's playing out. It's it's pretty typical
Speaker 2: that most often it is the adult child generation that
Speaker 2: cuts off the parent generation. Cut offs go in that
Speaker 2: direction more often than a parent generation cutting off a kid.
Speaker 2: And then families, you know, blended families are more at
Speaker 2: risk of cutoffs than not blended families. So in some
Speaker 2: ways they've got a couple of risk factors here for
Speaker 2: this to happen. And this, you know, the man, this
Speaker 2: man was kind of the fulcrum of the system, right.
Speaker 2: He was the tie for the daughters, and he was
Speaker 2: the tie for this wife. And so these two women,
Speaker 2: the stepdaughters and this step mom, they don't have a tie,
Speaker 2: a blood tie, right, If and as they were to
Speaker 2: continue their relationship, it would be really based on choice,
Speaker 2: some a lot of history. We don't know how much history,
Speaker 2: but it really would be a relationship truly of choice,
Speaker 2: not duty, not blood, and you know all that factors in.
Speaker 1: That's a really good point that you brought up there,
Speaker 1: that we don't know the backstory here. We don't know
Speaker 1: what kind of relationship this listener had with the stepdaughters
Speaker 1: before her husband's death. Was it a tense relationship, was
Speaker 1: it a good relationship. We don't have a lot of
Speaker 1: backstory there, but I think that we can make some
Speaker 1: guesses here that the relationship right now feels broken or
Speaker 1: tenuous and tender. I love what you said there about
Speaker 1: if they're going to move forward with a relationship. It's
Speaker 1: a relationship of choice, right, It's not a relationship of
Speaker 1: obligation or duty or you know, even something that really
Speaker 1: has a good roadmap to it.
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, that's right, there's not. These would be three
Speaker 2: women choosing a kind of relationship that certainly has got
Speaker 2: his memory as part of it, like as sort of
Speaker 2: the connective tissue. But it would be a relationship that
Speaker 2: they would choose, and to see each other I imagine
Speaker 2: highlights perhaps the pain of his loss. Right when she's
Speaker 2: looking in those women's eyes, maybe they look like if
Speaker 2: they look like him, right, So she is face to
Speaker 2: face with all the ways that he lives on in them,
Speaker 2: and they when they look at her, they see the marriage,
Speaker 2: whatever that marriage meant to them. So I imagine there's
Speaker 2: potentially pain that maybe these daughters are protecting themselves from,
Speaker 2: but also then a really important gateway to reminiscence and memory.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think there can be a real longing
Speaker 1: and I hear that in this listener, this real longing
Speaker 1: for a continued relationship. Right. It sounds like not only
Speaker 1: her husband died, but she also lost a relationship that
Speaker 1: mattered to her, whatever that relationship looked like. Right, So
Speaker 1: she's in a way grieving three losses, and that's something
Speaker 1: that we want to bring into the room here too.
Speaker 1: There's just really that longing and it's not like being
Speaker 1: connected is going to solve anything for anybody. You brought
Speaker 1: up how much pain there is involved in all of this.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't know if these adult children won
Speaker 1: or both of them if it's too painful for them, Like,
Speaker 1: we don't know what's going on for them. We don't
Speaker 1: really know what's going on for any of them until
Speaker 1: we sort of get to the point where we can
Speaker 1: have that conversation.
Speaker 2: Well, that's one of the things that I was thinking
Speaker 2: about with this question, is the stepmom's story is that
Speaker 2: the daughters have cut me off. You know, we were
Speaker 2: saying before, like the way in which these these sort
Speaker 2: of like chapter five may look like the girls cut
Speaker 2: her off. But I wonder if the girl's story is
Speaker 2: in chapter one she didn't follow up after the funeral,
Speaker 2: or she didn't do this, or when we ask for this,
Speaker 2: she didn't you know, respond, there may have been things
Speaker 2: in which the daughter's story might be she really pulled
Speaker 2: away from us, and that is not I am not
Speaker 2: saying that at all in any way to blame or
Speaker 2: put responsibility on this question writer. I am just invit
Speaker 2: the possibility that she has put together the data in
Speaker 2: a particular way that may not be the way this
Speaker 2: story lives inside of one or both of the daughters.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's really what you said when when we
Speaker 1: first started chatting here, is like, we want to widen
Speaker 1: out the scope of the story and wonder about the
Speaker 1: other characters and what's their perspective and what is their reasoning,
Speaker 1: what does their story look like, and how do those
Speaker 1: stories compare. I think sometimes we can be like, oh,
Speaker 1: the stepmom clearly did something terrible and that's why these
Speaker 1: people don't want to talk to her anymore, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe we certainly don't have enough information
Speaker 1: on that. But one of the things that you really
Speaker 1: said so clearly is that nobody is one hundred percent
Speaker 1: to blame in any of these directions, Right, We really
Speaker 1: just need to be curious about sort of the full
Speaker 1: breadth of the story in order to build this relationship
Speaker 1: of choice.
Speaker 2: Do you think that in terms of like applying just
Speaker 2: a really strict grief lens, do you think it's possible
Speaker 2: that the stepdaughter is like in an effort to almost
Speaker 2: like bind the enormity of the grief. It's sort of
Speaker 2: like easier to somehow blame, like maybe they don't Yeah,
Speaker 2: if she hadn't blah blah blah, then Dad would still
Speaker 2: be here.
Speaker 1: I think, especially with a sudden death. Certainly happens in
Speaker 1: other kinds of losses as well, but in a sudden
Speaker 1: death that really sort of messes with your understanding of
Speaker 1: the safety and predictability of the world. There is a
Speaker 1: big temptation to point a finger, and I think for
Speaker 1: a lot of people, anger is a much easier emotion
Speaker 1: than intense sadness. It's easier to sort of be hot
Speaker 1: and angry. And if you hadn't done this, this wouldn't
Speaker 1: be happening like that as a normal human impulse. So
Speaker 1: we really don't know the full story here, and honestly,
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, I don't think we need
Speaker 1: to know the full story in order to talk about
Speaker 1: where does this listener go from here? So you said
Speaker 1: something on your Instagram recently. That kind of speaks to
Speaker 1: where where do we go from here? You wrote, the
Speaker 1: difference between walking on eggshells and quote handling with care
Speaker 1: is whether you can talk together about how tender the
Speaker 1: dynamic feels. Handling with caution is a kindness we can
Speaker 1: offer each other, building trust without compromising authenticity. So one
Speaker 1: yet another awesome thing that you write on your Instagram.
Speaker 1: Everybody should follow you. But what are some ways that
Speaker 1: this listener might handle this tender dynamic with caution?
Speaker 2: I really do love the idea of her reaching out
Speaker 2: if she can do it with zero attachment to the
Speaker 2: outcome right, and of course she's going to have preferences
Speaker 2: of how it goes or it doesn't go. But if
Speaker 2: she can, if this conversation helps her feel really grounded
Speaker 2: in curiosity and care and love, then I imagine whatever
Speaker 2: words she chooses to reach out with will convey that,
Speaker 2: and then that way she can and just allow their
Speaker 2: reaction to be what it is, right, and it can
Speaker 2: be sort of almost like a data gathering like that.
Speaker 2: She's you know, she's doing her work to ensure that
Speaker 2: she doesn't have an angle or an axe to grind.
Speaker 2: She is reaching out with curiosity and care and love,
Speaker 2: and then just releasing the outcome, which is so darn
Speaker 2: hard to do, so possible. Then whatever happens next, then
Speaker 2: she gets to go from there, right, She's got to
Speaker 2: There's this beautiful Martin Luther King quote about how hard
Speaker 2: it is to take the first step when you can't
Speaker 2: see the full staircase. That's what I would invite her
Speaker 2: to do. If it feels like she's you know, well resourced,
Speaker 2: and she can do this without feeling like the outcome
Speaker 2: will devastate her, you know, or be too much for her,
Speaker 2: then I would like her to kind of take it
Speaker 2: that first step even though she can't see the full staircase.
Speaker 1: I love that idea. Idea in air quotes here, the
Speaker 1: idea of letting go of outcome. This is sort of
Speaker 1: like the whole draya, like, don't care about the outcome?
Speaker 1: No like that. Okay, so that's not really gonna happen. However,
Speaker 1: I think we can have sort of as a practice
Speaker 1: or an operating principle that I will reach out, I
Speaker 1: will take this action with as much skill and self
Speaker 1: awareness and reflection as I am able to access, and
Speaker 1: I can't control their reaction to that, Ah, I love it.
Speaker 1: That's I think that's just slightly different, a different approach
Speaker 1: than like, I don't care what happens, whatever the outcome
Speaker 1: is is like no, no, no, like that. Let's be
Speaker 1: realistic here. But I do think that it can take
Speaker 1: some of the pressure off to feel like it's all
Speaker 1: on you to do this perfectly, and if you don't
Speaker 1: do it perfectly, the future relationship is screwed. Right, I
Speaker 1: think that is undue pressure, agreed to me. This is
Speaker 1: really about taking the time to really ask yourself what
Speaker 1: am I hoping for here? What would be the best
Speaker 1: possible outcome in this situation? And what is it that
Speaker 1: I really want to convey to these people that I
Speaker 1: very clearly care about, right, And spending some time in
Speaker 1: that self reflection, that relational self awareness that you talk
Speaker 1: about spending some time and that so that you can
Speaker 1: show up with skill to a very tender dynamic.
Speaker 2: I think that's a really important distinction that you're making,
Speaker 2: and that she will right, there are particular outcomes that
Speaker 2: she has a preference for and particular outcomes that she
Speaker 2: fears or dreads, and if it goes in a way
Speaker 2: that it is one of the feared or dreaded outcomes.
Speaker 2: I would wish her sadness but not shame, right, I
Speaker 2: would wish that she could kind of stay with sadness
Speaker 2: and notice if there's an urge to kind of turn
Speaker 2: it against herself, right, that any sort of like sense
Speaker 2: that she did it wrong or this happened because of
Speaker 2: some aspect of her character, Which is why I think
Speaker 2: it's so important how you're focusing her on the kind
Speaker 2: of skill and gentleness going in that will help her
Speaker 2: hopefully sit with whatever next step happens on there. And
Speaker 2: that she has absolutely no.
Speaker 1: Control, absolutely no control. Yeah, and having just come off
Speaker 1: of the loss of her partner over which she also
Speaker 1: had no control. Lack of control is really challenging. So really, briefly,
Speaker 1: if we want to talk about some scripting maybe for
Speaker 1: this person, So I would suggest something like, you know,
Speaker 1: after you've done your reflection, after you've really looked at
Speaker 1: what's my goal here? What would I really like? You
Speaker 1: don't want to really like dump all of that information
Speaker 1: onto somebody after no contact, you know, like here's a
Speaker 1: text that's seventeen thousand words long. No, Yeah, maybe something
Speaker 1: more like, don't send a text to both of the
Speaker 1: adult children at the same time, so individual contact is
Speaker 1: important here, and to say something like, I know we
Speaker 1: haven't been in touch since your dad died, and I
Speaker 1: have wanted to really respect your privacy and your timing.
Speaker 1: His birthday is coming up, and I just want to
Speaker 1: let you know that I would love to continue a
Speaker 1: relationship with you, whatever that might look like.
Speaker 2: Feel like my whole chest opens as you provide that
Speaker 2: keep going nice.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love a visceral reaction. It's it's
Speaker 1: really what we're going for here is some elegance in
Speaker 1: the difficulty. And of course you know, when I give
Speaker 1: you or when Alexander gives you suggestions for scripting, you
Speaker 1: want to make things sound like you and not like us,
Speaker 1: right because you want to be able to maintain it
Speaker 1: without having to, like, you know, go back and listen
Speaker 1: to us. But I think the message here is I've
Speaker 1: wanted to respect your space and your timing, and I
Speaker 1: want to extend an invitation and let you know that
Speaker 1: I would love to see what kind of relationship we
Speaker 1: might grow together, if there is one, and what that
Speaker 1: would look like like. There's a real permission giving in
Speaker 1: there that I really appreciate.
Speaker 2: There's a complete and total absence of should or obligation
Speaker 2: or duty or good people xys that you know, there
Speaker 2: is just permission and some vulnerable. Right, there's a bit
Speaker 2: of vulnerability on her part. I would love to continue.
Speaker 2: So she's stating what she would like, and that's vulnerable.
Speaker 2: It's vulnerable to state what you would like. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: in that language, you're inviting her to say, I would
Speaker 2: love to continue a relationship with you. However that would
Speaker 2: look to you.
Speaker 1: I mean, it sends a very strong message, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: I think that the subtle or maybe not so subtle
Speaker 1: message is like I am aware and skilled enough to
Speaker 1: do a really skillful, elegant request of you into this
Speaker 1: really awkward territory. Like I think we're always we're always
Speaker 1: we're always demonstrating our skill set to other people, right,
Speaker 1: We're always demonstrating what we're standing on. I love that
Speaker 1: you came up with shame there, Like if you instead
Speaker 1: you did a message like your dad would really want
Speaker 1: us to keep in touch, like oh red black City. Right,
Speaker 1: if I am the adult child, I'm like delete, not
Speaker 1: talking to you. So we really do want to be
Speaker 1: mindful of like no matter how high the emotion is,
Speaker 1: no matter how much we desperately want to have that connection.
Speaker 1: For a multitude of reasons, you want to watch for
Speaker 1: a language that will accidentally send the other person running away.
Speaker 1: And certainly any kind of should language or your dead
Speaker 1: dad would want us xyz like oof. That sort of
Speaker 1: omniscient stuff doesn't work in any kind of support. But
Speaker 1: especially when you're in this sort of tender navigation of love,
Speaker 1: you want to be mindful of the message that you're sending.
Speaker 2: Megan, why did you start by saying that you think
Speaker 2: that she should send a text to each of them individually.
Speaker 1: Texting to each one of them individually recognizes them as
Speaker 1: individuals rather than a unit. I think that's really important.
Speaker 1: People like to be seen as who they are. We
Speaker 1: also don't want to assume that both of these adult
Speaker 1: step daughters have the same reasons for radio silence. If
Speaker 1: you think about it, like we always have different relationships
Speaker 1: with different family members, I'm sure that she didn't have
Speaker 1: the same relationship with each one. Like, they don't come
Speaker 1: as a unit. I mean, maybe they present as a
Speaker 1: unit sometimes because they're good friends, but these are individuals
Speaker 1: that we're talking about. Each one of those stepdaughters had
Speaker 1: an individual, unique relationship with their dad. They probably each
Speaker 1: have different fears, annoyances, desires as it relates to their
Speaker 1: grief and any ongoing relationship with their stepmom. I think
Speaker 1: there's a measure of respect in addressing them as individuals,
Speaker 1: because they are individuals. So we aren't kidding everybody when
Speaker 1: Alexandra and I say that almost every issue can be
Speaker 1: like boiled down to this is a boundary issue. We
Speaker 1: had so much good information to discuss and dissect around
Speaker 1: boundaries and relationships that we split the show into two
Speaker 1: parts so that you can do what we've been talking about,
Speaker 1: which is some you know, self reflection and some questioning
Speaker 1: into your own ideas about boundaries. So part two is
Speaker 1: coming next week, and that's also when you're going to
Speaker 1: find your questions to carry with you. Don't miss that
Speaker 1: next week, friends. You know how most people are going
Speaker 1: to scan through their podcast app looking for a new thing.
Speaker 1: They're going to see the show description for hereafter and
Speaker 1: think I don't want to talk about that stuff. Well,
Speaker 1: here's where you come in your reviews. Let people know
Speaker 1: it really isn't all that bad. In here. We talk
Speaker 1: about heavy stuff, but it's in the service of making
Speaker 1: things better for everyone, so everyone needs to listen. Spread
Speaker 1: the word in your workplace, in your social world on
Speaker 1: social media and click through to leave a review. Subscribe
Speaker 1: to the show, download episodes, and send in your questions.
Speaker 1: Want more Here After Grief education doesn't just belong to
Speaker 1: end of life issues. Life is full of losses, from
Speaker 1: everyday disappointments to events that clearly divide life into before
Speaker 1: and after. Learning how to talk about all that without
Speaker 1: cliches or platitudes or simplistic think positive posters is an
Speaker 1: important skill for everyone. Find trainings, workshops, books and resources
Speaker 1: for every human trying to make their way in the
Speaker 1: world after something goes hoholeably wrong at Megandivine dot Co.
Speaker 1: Hereafter with Megan Divine is written produced by me Meghan Divine,
Speaker 1: Executive producer is Amy Brown and Elizabeth Fozzio, Edited by
Speaker 1: Houston Tilley. Music provided by Wave Crush