Speaker 1: Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for all of Jessica Jones's stuff,
Speaker 1: all of their story arcs, all her seasons from the
Speaker 1: eponymous Jessica Jones television show on Netflix, and.
Speaker 2: For her work in The Defenders.
Speaker 1: I continued, Jesu's under the worst. It's not good, but
Speaker 1: it's not there's moments anyway, Now.
Speaker 3: Twenty years later, after all we've been through.
Speaker 1: Hello, my name is Jason Eccepcion and I'm Rosey Night,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to x Revision of the podcast, where
Speaker 1: we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics of
Speaker 1: pop culture. Coming you from my heart, We're bringing three
Speaker 1: episodes a week, plus news plus DAWs.
Speaker 3: In today's episode, we are revisiting those major events from
Speaker 3: the Netflix series Jessica Jones. Remember when that came out
Speaker 3: twenty fifty eleven years ago, a totally different time. We
Speaker 3: could have believe it. We were getting multiple MCU ground
Speaker 3: level shows on Netflix of all places. Of course, the
Speaker 3: streaming landscape has changed, but we're here to prep you
Speaker 3: for what hasn't changed. Before her appearance in dard Evil
Speaker 3: Born Again Season two, will then recommend a little bit
Speaker 3: of her comic book history some of our fabe arcs
Speaker 3: and will predict to how Jessica will respond to a
Speaker 3: Wilson Fisk round New York. I'm predicting not very well.
Speaker 3: But first, let's recap those episodes.
Speaker 1: First season one of Jessica Jones, which debuted in twenty
Speaker 1: fifty to twenty fifty.
Speaker 2: My god, eleven years ago. I can't believe it. Twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1: The show opens with Jessica Jones, already having been through
Speaker 1: a whole lot. Family died in a car crash when
Speaker 1: she was a teenager. She is severely injured in the crash,
Speaker 1: and mysterious organization called Igh pulls Jessica out of the wreckage,
Speaker 1: does experiments on her, and as a result, she has
Speaker 1: superhuman strength, superhuman endurance, and ability to withstand damage, and
Speaker 1: she can kind of fly. She calls it guided falling.
Speaker 1: She gets adopted by Dorothy Walker, a stage mother of
Speaker 1: the most ambitious and ruthless variety, who takes Jessica in
Speaker 1: partly as like a promo stunt to promote her daughter,
Speaker 1: Patsy's television show. But the good thing is Jessica and
Speaker 1: Patsy hit it off and they become best friends. Then
Speaker 1: there's Kilgrave Kevin Thompson, who as a kid was experimented
Speaker 1: on by his parents in order to create like a
Speaker 1: cure for a degenerative brain disease. And did it work?
Speaker 1: Did it not work?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: If the goal was to create a person with the
Speaker 1: power to control other people's minds and make them do things,
Speaker 1: then yeah great. His parents realized they created a monster,
Speaker 1: so they fled, and young Kevin, soon to be killed
Speaker 1: Grave grows up alone, basically learning to use his powers
Speaker 1: to survive and becoming a completely amoral whoops, don Donna said,
Speaker 1: I hate kill Grave. She's becoming an amoral, vicious abuser.
Speaker 1: He finds Jessica Jones controls her for a period of
Speaker 1: eight months. He keeps her in captivity, essentially abuses her
Speaker 1: sexually assaults her. But the thing that finally breaks Jessica
Speaker 1: free is when she is ordered to kill a woman
Speaker 1: named Reva Connors, who she barely knows and is the
Speaker 1: wife of someone that later on she's gonna care about
Speaker 1: a lot. Jessica escapes, she moaves to Hell's kitchen. She
Speaker 1: becomes a private detective. She becomes an alcoholic. Later, a
Speaker 1: college athlete named Hope Schlatman goes missing her, her parents
Speaker 1: hire Jessica. Jessica finds out that this whole thing is
Speaker 1: probably a setup. She recognizes the outlines of what has
Speaker 1: happened here. There's a nice girl, this new man the
Speaker 1: hotel room. Folks, it's kill Grave. He set a trap
Speaker 1: in order to find Jessica. Jessica gets hope out, puts
Speaker 1: her on a bush, walks off the bus, shoots both
Speaker 1: her parents in an elevator under Killgrave's control.
Speaker 3: Kill Grave's back, folks, Dude, that's one of the craziest
Speaker 3: endings to a model will ever And you Jessica just
Speaker 3: walking away once again in that horrific feeling of like,
Speaker 3: this is my fault. Everyone that I try and help
Speaker 3: gets hut. But of course the fault is at the
Speaker 3: hands of kill Grave. But yeah, that episode ending shocked
Speaker 3: me when we.
Speaker 2: Rewatched Very Dark.
Speaker 1: Wow, this whole season is.
Speaker 2: It's so so dark.
Speaker 1: So Jessica wants not just to capture and kill kill Grave,
Speaker 1: but to essentially he reveal his powers and his existence
Speaker 1: to the world, to document what he's done in order
Speaker 1: to clear the names of his victims and hopefully get
Speaker 1: people to realize that this man is a superpowered villain,
Speaker 1: and those do exist. Along the way, she meets Luke
Speaker 1: Cage Bulletproof Bartender. They have a relationship, but of course
Speaker 1: Jessica's got a lot of trauma. She's got a lot
Speaker 1: of secrets she can't tell him, and when she eventually
Speaker 1: does tell him, it's a devastating reveal. Killgrave gets worse
Speaker 1: and worse. He buys Jessica's child at home. He gets
Speaker 1: his father, Albert Thompson, the guy who did the experiments
Speaker 1: on him as a child, to perform a different procedure
Speaker 1: in order to amplify his powers, which he then goes
Speaker 1: out and like tag, yeah, no, do that. Hope Schlatman
Speaker 1: kills herself in prison. It's a terrible moment of agency
Speaker 1: by her, a desire to take control before kil Grave
Speaker 1: can take it back. And it's important because it frees
Speaker 1: Jessica from the obligation to try and save Hope also,
Speaker 1: and it just frees her to just stop kill Grave.
Speaker 1: The finale, kill Grave takes over an auditorium. He commands
Speaker 1: Jessica and it seems like it's working, but unbeknownst to everyone,
Speaker 1: she has spent weeks building a tolerance to his power
Speaker 1: because she's kind of understands now how the power works,
Speaker 1: and she's allowed herself, through controlled exposure, one session at
Speaker 1: a time, to make herself resistant the way you kind
Speaker 1: of resist a virus, which is his power works very
Speaker 1: similar to a virus. She lets him believe right up
Speaker 1: until the last moment that she is under his control,
Speaker 1: and then she breaks his neck. He dies mid sentence,
Speaker 1: mid delusion, absolutely convinced that she is coming back to
Speaker 1: him and he's dead. A wonderful ending, yes, very very dark, scotic.
Speaker 3: Paul and Larry's Durnock season great, great, just terrible experience
Speaker 3: to watch that show, but in like a really cathartic way.
Speaker 3: And of course now we are onto Jason's not faith,
Speaker 3: but he will defend it the Defenders. He is the
Speaker 3: Defender Defender, just like I am the Eternal's eternal fan.
Speaker 3: All four heroes are at some kind of rock bottom
Speaker 3: when we meet them in The Defenders twenty seventeen. Matt
Speaker 3: Murdock has quit being dead of or he's gone back
Speaker 3: to law. It never lasts long, but you know he's trying.
Speaker 3: He's trying. Luke Caate's just go out of prison. Will
Speaker 3: they stop putting him in there never that's his curse.
Speaker 3: Apparently Danny Rand just got back from kodlun Well, and
Speaker 3: Jessica is just still Jessica. She's still going through it.
Speaker 3: Her current case is a missing husband, which we know
Speaker 3: is what she traffics in. John Raymond, an architect married
Speaker 3: to a woman named Michelle, has vanished. Jessica traces him
Speaker 3: to tunnels underground beneath a gleaming Manhattan skyscraper called Midland Circle.
Speaker 3: John Raymond left explosives behind. He wanted to destroy it himself,
Speaker 3: and that's when we find out that the Hand none
Speaker 3: other than the iconic Marvel villain group. The Hand is
Speaker 3: in the tunnels underneath the building, an ancient criminal organization
Speaker 3: that's been threading its way through all four solo series,
Speaker 3: converging now because New York sits on one of the
Speaker 3: last deposits of the substance powering their resurrection.
Speaker 1: This is rituals, this is where is this stuff? Goofy Absolutely,
Speaker 1: it's so, it's kind of fun, it's kind of yeah.
Speaker 2: But this.
Speaker 1: I will defend it. I will continue to.
Speaker 2: Do I get it.
Speaker 3: You're saying, you're not necessarily this is going the specifics
Speaker 3: of the resurrection ritual magic running under Wishbusters.
Speaker 1: It's very Ghostbusters and you just wish the hand was
Speaker 1: better and not run by a white woman. Also, like
Speaker 1: this is how.
Speaker 3: Weird, especially strange, especially when they had actually already introduced
Speaker 3: like multiple incredible like Asian, American and Asian women in
Speaker 3: the in the lead up to the hand reveal. So
Speaker 3: that white woman Alexander Ree and her weapon is oh
Speaker 3: bad news for Matt Murdoch. Electra Nacchios's ex girlfriend, who
Speaker 3: is killed at the end of Dead Level season two
Speaker 3: and has now been resurrected as the Black Sky. The
Speaker 3: four heroes come together badly. They attack a hand. They
Speaker 3: deal with a hand attack at a Chinese restaurant that
Speaker 3: forces the issue, allowing them to have that big Avengers
Speaker 3: esque fight for the first time. It takes a little
Speaker 3: bit long to get there, but works pretty well. I
Speaker 3: think that fight scene hat stands up and it is
Speaker 3: pretty satisfying. Jessica's response to learning there are other powered
Speaker 3: people is not wonder or solidarity, though it is mild
Speaker 3: dry contempt. She is interested in the case, that is all,
Speaker 3: though I don't believe her because I know her eyes
Speaker 3: lit up. Yeah, she saw dead evil Matt Murdoch come on,
Speaker 3: the Hand needs Danny Brandt specifically, Oh really, that seems unlikely.
Speaker 3: It seems like the kind of choice little white person
Speaker 3: running the Hand would make. And Iron Fist is the
Speaker 3: only one who can open the chamber below Midland Circle.
Speaker 3: It is Iron Fist and the rest of the series
Speaker 3: is the four hero is trying and mostly failing to
Speaker 3: prevent that from happening. Alexandra gets killed by Electra. That's
Speaker 3: Calma baby who hands. He takes over the Hand and
Speaker 3: starts acting on instinct love that former Electra pushing through.
Speaker 3: Matt can see it, and he won't leave it alone
Speaker 3: because he loves her. The finale goes underground, the fights ugly.
Speaker 3: Matt stays behind. He's made his choice about Electra and
Speaker 3: nobody's talking him out of it. Jessica, Luke and Danny
Speaker 3: get out, Midland Circle collapses. Matt Murdoch is, by all
Speaker 3: available evidence dead.
Speaker 2: He's that's it. That's it.
Speaker 3: You're never gonna see him again, guys, Sorry if you
Speaker 3: like that character. Jessica Jonas, who has resisted every step
Speaker 3: of this, walks back out into the city and just
Speaker 3: goes back to work in New York and god damn it,
Speaker 3: we respect her for it.
Speaker 1: That leads us to season two of Jessica Jones from
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, also feeling like a million years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this season is primarily about Igh and what they did,
Speaker 1: what else they did in addition to experimenting on Jessica,
Speaker 1: there is a killer who is working through everyone connected
Speaker 1: to Igh, eliminating them before Jessica can talk to them.
Speaker 1: The killer is Alyssa Jones, Oh, Jessica's mom, who Jessica
Speaker 1: believed was dead in that car crash seventeen years ago.
Speaker 3: Except crazy.
Speaker 1: Alyssa's injuries were so catastrophic that Igh's treatment took many,
Speaker 1: many years to work, and when she came out the
Speaker 1: other side of it, she I guess you would essentially say,
Speaker 1: has like borderline personalities interest She goes from a very loving,
Speaker 1: like generous mom to like a ruthless killer.
Speaker 2: At the drop of a hat.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really interesting choice, and it's one of
Speaker 3: many that we get in season two where they kind
Speaker 3: of start to bring about different versions of is that
Speaker 3: we've seen before.
Speaker 1: Yes, right, so Alissa has spent this intervening seventeen years
Speaker 1: trying to kind of manage these wild swings in her
Speaker 1: personality with the help of doctor Carl Malice, an igh
Speaker 1: scientist who experimented on both mother and daughter and with
Speaker 1: whom she has fallen apparently sincerely in love with.
Speaker 3: No no, no, no, no baby. This is bad news.
Speaker 1: It's not as there's a lot of problems with this,
Speaker 1: but it's hard to explain that to Alyssa in her
Speaker 1: current state. Meanwhile, Trish is spiraling separately. She is feeling
Speaker 1: like she doesn't have agency, doesn't have control of her life,
Speaker 1: and she really wants powers. She's always wanted them. She
Speaker 1: wants to be a superhero. She gets access to combat
Speaker 1: enhancer that turns Simpson into a liability. She uses it,
Speaker 1: she gets addicted and tells herself everything she's doing is
Speaker 1: to help Tessica. Jerry Hogarth finds out she has als.
Speaker 1: She gets conned by two people who offer her a
Speaker 1: healer and then rob her.
Speaker 2: And leave her disy.
Speaker 3: Also, like I do, I will say did completely forget
Speaker 3: to shout out that there's a lot of like hot
Speaker 3: Trinity action lesbian action in the first season of Jessica Jones,
Speaker 3: which you know does does continue here.
Speaker 1: Yes, Malice dies Alica escapes, Jessica goes with her towards
Speaker 1: Canada with the police, you know, hot on their trail.
Speaker 1: Alyssa pulls over at a fair ground she and Jessica
Speaker 1: visited when Jessica was a child.
Speaker 3: Then Trish shoots her because she's been taking that nuke,
Speaker 3: that crazy taking.
Speaker 1: That new mothery, and she tells Jessica she did it
Speaker 1: to protect her. Jessica and Tricia's friendship continues, It survives, like.
Speaker 3: Those two are so fucked up by Tricia's mind.
Speaker 1: Of course, Jessica is more alone at the end of
Speaker 1: season two than she was at the beginning and even
Speaker 1: at the beginning of season one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, that takes us to Jessica Jones's last on
Speaker 3: screen appearance, Jessica Jones Season three from twenty nineteen. The
Speaker 3: villain is Gregory Salinger, an unpowered serial killer, formula champion wrestler,
Speaker 3: and a man who has built an entire philosophy around
Speaker 3: the idea that exceptional ability is cheating, that it devalues
Speaker 3: human achievement, and the gifted people of frauds who deserve
Speaker 3: to be exposed. He is methodical. He understands evidence and
Speaker 3: how to avoid leaving it he studies Jessica specifically and
Speaker 3: adjusts around her. And honestly, I gotta say, Jessica, you
Speaker 3: were really gonna get this happened into you at some point,
Speaker 3: because you've just been going around lifted around cars.
Speaker 2: Like even after the Battle of.
Speaker 3: New York, when everyone was pretty like anti the events
Speaker 3: and the superheros, you were still just like throwing a car,
Speaker 3: like threatening a guy with laser eyes. So this was
Speaker 3: probably gonna happen for you. Now Trish has those powers,
Speaker 3: she has those enhanced reflexes, that agility, night vision, the
Speaker 3: kind of feline precision that the comics will call hell
Speaker 3: Cap because that is who Patsy Walker is originally. And
Speaker 3: the take that they did is very interesting on this
Speaker 3: notion of her being kind of a fictionalized version, just
Speaker 3: like she is in the comics, but here she's the
Speaker 3: fictionalized version pushed on by a kind of fame hungry mother.
Speaker 3: It's very interesting. So now we have another superhor vigilante
Speaker 3: on the streets, hell Cat, and then Salaja is like,
Speaker 3: I gotta do something about this. I'm sick of these vigilantes.
Speaker 3: This is sounding very akin to what we saw Wilson
Speaker 3: do in Born again, so I think we could definitely
Speaker 3: see some parallels here. But he breaks into Dorothy Walker's
Speaker 3: home and murders her. Dun, dun. It's Trish who finds
Speaker 3: the body, and that is it. She's over it. She
Speaker 3: stops trying to work within any system. She hunts Salndary down,
Speaker 3: finds him in a courthouse elevator and chains and kills him. Wow,
Speaker 3: not even able to defend himself.
Speaker 2: Crazy.
Speaker 3: And Jessica, who is kind of spent the whole season
Speaker 3: holding Trish back, is now kind of having to face
Speaker 3: what season two asked her to face, which is like, Babe,
Speaker 3: your friend just shot your mom in the head, Like,
Speaker 3: got to do something about that. So she just to
Speaker 3: expose Trish publicly. Not the way I would have dealt
Speaker 3: with it, but you know, go for it, Babe. Turns
Speaker 3: her into a fugitive, very Spider Man esque, turns her
Speaker 3: into a small airport on Long Island, where Trish is
Speaker 3: trying to flee the country in a coffin, literally in
Speaker 3: a coffin. This is so Sunset Beach, Like, I love
Speaker 3: this insane plot. Like in the final confrontation, Trish tries
Speaker 3: to stab Jessica through the chest, but Jessica lets it
Speaker 3: go through her hand knocks her, you know, kind of
Speaker 3: adopted sister and best friend out, and then Trisha ends
Speaker 3: up in the raft. Bro I feel like that was
Speaker 3: kind of hardcore, Like, I mean, the raft is crazy. Yes,
Speaker 3: that's where they put the Avengers when they won't sign
Speaker 3: the fucking like so Kovia accords. This woman just like
Speaker 3: stabbed a couple of people that have us all the time.
Speaker 3: But very interesting. I definitely think this is one of
Speaker 3: the ultimate threads that could be brought back because we
Speaker 3: are going back to the raft. Also, we know they're
Speaker 3: trying to fill those damage control prisons. We could see
Speaker 3: prisoners from the raft less important prisons.
Speaker 2: And up there.
Speaker 3: Jessica then hands over ALIAS investigations to Malcolm her kind
Speaker 3: of ally throughout this, she goes to a bus take
Speaker 3: and buys a ticket to El Paso, Texas, and then
Speaker 3: she stands there hearing kill Grave's voice. It's really just
Speaker 3: her PTSD, don't worry the anxiety of it, given strength
Speaker 3: and sound, and he's telling her, yeah, give up, like
Speaker 3: go away, this is what you should do. Run away
Speaker 3: like you always do. You're right, And in that moment,
Speaker 3: she turns around and she goes back to New York
Speaker 3: because she's like, fuck kill Grave and fuck PTSD, fuck
Speaker 3: ol Paso, Texas too. I guess she's like, I'm staying
Speaker 3: in New York. I'm paying forty five hundred dollars for rent.
Speaker 3: It's important.
Speaker 1: Let's say a quick break and we'll discuss the lasting
Speaker 1: legacy of Jessica Jones Seasons one, two, and three plus
Speaker 1: The Defenders.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're back.
Speaker 1: First of it's crazy, it feels like this show came
Speaker 1: out a lifetime ago. This was like the heat of
Speaker 1: Me Too, and this show was responding to it in
Speaker 1: a way that it feels, I mean, rewatching this, it
Speaker 1: was like I'm back in that time. I felt like
Speaker 1: I was back in it. The show grapples with those
Speaker 1: kinds of with that kind of subject matter, the idea
Speaker 1: of trauma, the idea of trauma related to sexual assault, control,
Speaker 1: coercive behavior, getting people to believe you, and turns it
Speaker 1: into really gripping, a dark drama. I think it absolutely
Speaker 1: stands up, but it's also like, it also feels like
Speaker 1: such a it's crazy to be like, God, I wish
Speaker 1: we could go back to twenty fifteen a little bit.
Speaker 3: TI Generation definitely kind of deal is kind of like
Speaker 3: we remember that arrow at twenty fifteen we were like, oh,
Speaker 3: that was like we're doing some stuff was happening, And
Speaker 3: from twenty sixteen on whatevery year, we're like, wait, let's
Speaker 3: go back man, Like I think that was the last one.
Speaker 3: It does feel crazy to watch a show like this
Speaker 3: that was just roundly celebrated when it came out. There
Speaker 3: was no controversy. It was not like it's well, I'm
Speaker 3: sure there was a little bit, but the conversation was
Speaker 3: not it's too woke, it's anti men. It was a
Speaker 3: conversation going, wow, here is a show that has been
Speaker 3: adapted by women from comics made by men that had
Speaker 3: their own subversive, radical nature, but also needed to be evolved,
Speaker 3: just like Jessica Jones as a character will need to
Speaker 3: be evolved. And some of the choices that we were
Speaker 3: made in season one of Jessica Jones, especially around Reava
Speaker 3: and Luke, those still don't hit very well for people.
Speaker 3: And that's a project of its time and who made
Speaker 3: the show too. But it did feel like it was
Speaker 3: moving in the right direction. It was the ark of
Speaker 3: justice is going towards like you know, justice not the
Speaker 3: other way. So I think it feels crazy to watch
Speaker 3: something and just be able to feel like wow, like
Speaker 3: this is so definitively about how wrong this man's actions are,
Speaker 3: and it uses superheroes as a way it's always been
Speaker 3: done to tell this really analogous, powerful story. I found
Speaker 3: this stuff with Hope in the first episode so heartbreaking,
Speaker 3: because there's that moment where Jessica goes into the hotel
Speaker 3: and literally has to drag her out of the room
Speaker 3: and she's going, I can't leave, and she's screaming and
Speaker 3: she's holding on, and we know it's because kill Grave,
Speaker 3: not kill Manger. He would never do that. A radical man.
Speaker 3: Kill Grave has programmed her and that is why we
Speaker 3: know she's doing it. But the response looks like a
Speaker 3: woman who is so scared to leave her abusive partner
Speaker 3: that she doesn't want to leave in case she gets
Speaker 3: in trouble or something happens to her or she upsets him.
Speaker 3: It's really visceral stuff, and I think it really does
Speaker 3: feel like it has so much more edge and so
Speaker 3: much more grit than what we get now in superhero
Speaker 3: shows in general, and it's very interesting. One of my
Speaker 3: favorite things about watching these odd shows is seeing what
Speaker 3: they were allowed to say and not allowed to say.
Speaker 3: Like you don't get a lot of character mention names,
Speaker 3: don't get a lot of stuff about you know in
Speaker 3: the comics, as we will get into, but like Jessica
Speaker 3: Jones was originally going to be Jessica Drew, so there
Speaker 3: are all these Spider Man connections but obviously couldn't do that.
Speaker 3: We have these connections to Carol Danvers, but she wasn't
Speaker 3: in the MCU yet. So it's really and this is
Speaker 3: when you know, Jeff Loebe was still running TV and
Speaker 3: five you was still running the movies. So it's also
Speaker 3: this really interesting historical time piece of how they worked
Speaker 3: around those kind of issues and write and legacy and license, which,
Speaker 3: by the way, guys, as me and Jason always say,
Speaker 3: is one of the reasons that MCU is so amazing
Speaker 3: because it was working against all of those things that
Speaker 3: was causing them to be interesting. Do different takes take
Speaker 3: from different places. So I think you really feel that
Speaker 3: coming through, and I hope that it can bring a
Speaker 3: little bit more of that grit back. I also just
Speaker 3: thought the banter between her and Luke was so good,
Speaker 3: like that just struck me. This is great flirtatious writing.
Speaker 1: This is why I like Defenders, because even though the
Speaker 1: story sucks and they did a bad job with the
Speaker 1: hand and many other things, the banter between the heroes
Speaker 1: is legitimately fun. Like the restaurant attack is fun. The
Speaker 1: way they all kind of like work together get to
Speaker 1: know each other begrudgingly. The way they make fun of
Speaker 1: Maks the only one wearing a mask, is like legitimately fun.
Speaker 1: And they had Greek chemistry and that it was part
Speaker 1: of what made Jessica Jones so fun, particularly season one,
Speaker 1: which I think is among the best things that Marvel's
Speaker 1: ever done.
Speaker 3: Oh definitely.
Speaker 1: Sadly, I think season two and three hold up less well.
Speaker 2: Dea I wonder.
Speaker 3: I think they make a lot of choices around, like
Speaker 3: trying to bring in women antagonists that don't necessarily work.
Speaker 3: I think that they got a bit worried that if
Speaker 3: she had too many women, she couldn't be depressed or something,
Speaker 3: so they thought killing him all off. I don't know. Okay,
Speaker 3: but speaking of that, let me ask you, what do
Speaker 3: you think the odds are of like a Trish return.
Speaker 3: If I'm giving you like three characters that I think
Speaker 3: could return and Born Again. I'm going Trish Night nas
Speaker 3: Luke Cage. What's your ranking of likelihood that we'll see
Speaker 3: them in Born Again?
Speaker 1: I would put them all at fairly even odds to return.
Speaker 1: I think that Trish first of all, as we talked
Speaker 1: about in our Spring look Ahead Television episode, I think
Speaker 1: season three, while not like a great season of comic
Speaker 1: book television, has a lot of things that the MCU
Speaker 1: can build on going forward, namely the raft and Trish
Speaker 1: being in there and the kind of anti superhero yeah,
Speaker 1: the street level consensus that maybe superheroes aren't great all
Speaker 1: the time that is just kind of simmering at that moment,
Speaker 1: and so I think bringing Trish back, like is she
Speaker 1: still in the raft, like what's going on? Like, I
Speaker 1: think it would be that would be a really cool
Speaker 1: thing to pick up. The Night Nurse is somebody who,
Speaker 1: let's be on honest, needs to just kind of be
Speaker 1: lurking in the background of all of these street level
Speaker 1: Marvel shows.
Speaker 3: It's the ultimate suspension of disbelief thing. She's always fixing
Speaker 3: them up, so.
Speaker 1: You know, she's always there. So I kind of feel
Speaker 1: like maybe that character has the best shot of just
Speaker 1: always being in a Marvel Street level something, and Luke
Speaker 1: I just want him back.
Speaker 3: Luke I went back to also Mike Cult, you know,
Speaker 3: unbelievable in one of my most underrated TV shows, Evil.
Speaker 3: I just think he has so much more range than
Speaker 3: he was even allowed to showcase in that. I also
Speaker 3: think that the MCU has While in some ways we
Speaker 3: know that there have been issues with the quality or consistency,
Speaker 3: I also feel like the ideas of the kinds of
Speaker 3: stories they tell and the kinds of people they let
Speaker 3: to be in different kind of stories is so much
Speaker 3: broader now. I think all of those characters would be
Speaker 3: really great at that. Okay, another question I was thinking
Speaker 3: the whole time I was watching this, Jason, obviously you
Speaker 3: got wait a second, you're thinking about news stories, you're
Speaker 3: thinking about mysteries. What is left in the MCU that
Speaker 3: the gen pop of the MCU don't know that you
Speaker 3: would want Jessica to be solving if she comes back in,
Speaker 3: Like what detective stories are you putting out there for her?
Speaker 3: Like what mysteries can she still solve? Because obviously now
Speaker 3: that line between cosmic and chaos and multiverse is like
Speaker 3: a lot closer to the ground level stuff. But what
Speaker 3: would you most like to see him kind of investigating.
Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot of ways to tie
Speaker 1: in doomsday and a post doomsday MC reality to street
Speaker 1: level stuff. It is kind of inconceivable to me that
Speaker 1: Doom hasn't visited six one six a few times, you know,
Speaker 1: to just whatever, gain intel, do research, get the lay of.
Speaker 2: The land, look around.
Speaker 1: Maybe he did something that looks like a weird, mysterious
Speaker 1: unsolved crime that actually is doctor Doom lurking around on
Speaker 1: the streets stuff, stealing a thing that he needs.
Speaker 2: You know, for his mission.
Speaker 1: And I think Jessica kind of stumble on something like
Speaker 1: that could be really cool that would lead to you know,
Speaker 1: would just be one threat. You wouldn't really need to
Speaker 1: pay it off, but it'd be a good way to
Speaker 1: seed stuff happening in the future. And honestly, that's how
Speaker 1: the comics do it. You know, exactly when there's like
Speaker 1: a big event, even if a tangential character is not
Speaker 1: involved in whatever crossover event, you'll often have little easter
Speaker 1: eggs dropped in there that are like, oh, this will
Speaker 1: be more will be said about this in the up command.
Speaker 2: Big event.
Speaker 1: And so I think you can do stuff like that
Speaker 1: with Jessica, just have her stumble across interesting evidence, weird
Speaker 1: investigations that that lead to Doom.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yeah. I think that's a really good idea.
Speaker 3: And also I think that something that we can do
Speaker 3: here is essentially like we were talking about in Offspring TV.
Speaker 3: This is kind of giving like Dave Filoni expanded out
Speaker 3: the MCU, I mean, expanded out Star Wars with you know,
Speaker 3: the Clone Wars. This is a way for them to
Speaker 3: give us a little bit more knowledge about the Netflix
Speaker 3: world and what is still there and what isn't still there,
Speaker 3: the same way that Born Again did in such a
Speaker 3: great way in the first season. So I love that.
Speaker 3: I would love to kind of see them seeding these
Speaker 3: strange things that are eventually gonna pay off. Because if
Speaker 3: you do have, you know, a super being, if it's
Speaker 3: got Emperor Doom or if it's just super intelligent Doom
Speaker 3: from that area with his magic, you're gonna be traces
Speaker 3: of that. He's gonna be leaving traces of that around
Speaker 3: the MCU. He's gonna be causing strange problems, little issues.
Speaker 3: I would love to see Jessica go on something that
Speaker 3: seems like a very routine case but ends up being
Speaker 3: like strangely accult or strangely connected to Doom. That would
Speaker 3: be really fun.
Speaker 1: And on a more kind of day to day level,
Speaker 1: we don't know if Jessica was blipped or not, but
Speaker 1: oh I could see her. I could see her spending
Speaker 1: time investigating disappear of people were blipped, what.
Speaker 2: Happened to them? Or she's doing did they have.
Speaker 3: People who were blipped who never came back? That would
Speaker 3: be great kind of missing missing people's question, also a
Speaker 3: really great way for them to you know, one of
Speaker 3: the shows that I know not everyone looks fondly back on,
Speaker 3: but we were really enjoying when it was coming out
Speaker 3: was The Joyous Joyous She Hulk That was just so
Speaker 3: much fun and had so much humor. And what I
Speaker 3: thought they did really well that we can look back
Speaker 3: on and take from that, and I hope they were
Speaker 3: doing these upcoming shows, is how they used day to
Speaker 3: day kind of business of the law firm to introduce
Speaker 3: multiple Marvel characters. Jessica can do that through looking for
Speaker 3: those missic people. You know, as she's exploring, you can
Speaker 3: get your three D men or your kind of funny
Speaker 3: whatever weird thing that you were really interested in. I
Speaker 3: think there's ways to do that. So I think that's
Speaker 3: a great call.
Speaker 1: You know what else she could do? I'm right about this.
Speaker 1: Right in She Hulk, did we discovered that the sokvia
Speaker 1: Of cords were repealed?
Speaker 2: Yes? They were about so.
Speaker 1: Where's Trish? Does that mean that the legal basis for
Speaker 1: detaining Trish is gone? And what if Trish never shows up?
Speaker 1: And what if Jessica's like, well, where the fuck is
Speaker 1: trishman disappeared to you? If you can't keep her anymore?
Speaker 3: Oh okay, and then what about this? Because this is
Speaker 3: just we're just riffing, so Marvel, yeah, hire us. But
Speaker 3: that could lead to your discovery of the X Mansion
Speaker 3: is basically a place that Charles Xavier has taken in
Speaker 3: not only mutants but also superpowered people who wouldn't sign
Speaker 3: up for the Sokovier cords or on the run. So
Speaker 3: I think you're right. There's so many interesting things. And
Speaker 3: it's funny because when you watch the show, it feels
Speaker 3: so separate and so different and so isolated, and it's
Speaker 3: in a way that is all complimentary. That was the point,
Speaker 3: but when you actually start looking back at it, I
Speaker 3: absolutely understand why. The storytellers and execs and everyone at
Speaker 3: Marvel was like, oh wait, there is so much to
Speaker 3: pull from here, Like we got to bring her back,
Speaker 3: and her and Mass so good together.
Speaker 1: You're so good together. I'm really excited for it. Okay,
Speaker 1: Le's seek a quick break and we'll be right back
Speaker 1: with you giving us some comics recommendations for fans of
Speaker 1: Jessica Dreams.
Speaker 3: And we're back in this very serious segment called where
Speaker 3: did You Come From? Where did You Go? Where did
Speaker 3: You Come From? Comic book character Jessica Jones. Although she
Speaker 3: is I would say best known for her stint as
Speaker 3: part of Netflix's You Know MCU affiliated now at least
Speaker 3: somewhat MCU official Defenders team, she first debuted as part
Speaker 3: of the very edgy early Marvel Max imprint. I had
Speaker 3: a lot of fun rereading this. For this, written by
Speaker 3: Brian Michael bendis obviously Marvel legend and drawn by Michael Gatos,
Speaker 3: an icon. The story had at one point originally been
Speaker 3: considered as a Jessica Drew relaunch as part of the
Speaker 3: Marvel Max imprint in two thousand and one, post the
Speaker 3: comic book Boom and Crash, Marvel was doing a lot
Speaker 3: more crazy ideas you've heard us talk about, you know,
Speaker 3: Franken Castle, Frankenstein Punisher, stuff like that, and a lot
Speaker 3: of these Marvel Knights, Marvel Max. They came out of
Speaker 3: that tumultuous time where they could try other stuff. So
Speaker 3: it became quite clear that it would probably not end
Speaker 3: up being Spider Woman. Maybe because and this is a
Speaker 3: real quote from Brian Cronin's legendary comic book Legends Revealed
Speaker 3: kind of comic book folklore, truth or no truth, kind
Speaker 3: of the early snopes of comic book news. This is
Speaker 3: a real quote that Brian Ben has said for his
Speaker 3: vision for this book originally was a pornographic dial h
Speaker 3: for hero. So you can imagine why they might have
Speaker 3: been like, maybe not Spider Woman.
Speaker 1: The first ruler of the comic is fuck exactly, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna learn more because this is the thing.
Speaker 3: So then you start to realize they need a different character.
Speaker 3: He decides he's gonna create a unique character, Jessica obviously
Speaker 3: still named after Jessica Drew, but Jessica Jones, who is
Speaker 3: no longer you know, Spider Woman, but is still a PI.
Speaker 3: And that enabled him to make the very controversial comic
Speaker 3: that would become a talking point because of its very
Speaker 3: hardcore sexual content. Inserting Jessica interestingly into interesting important moments
Speaker 3: through Spider Man history because of her original connection to
Speaker 3: Drew means that in the comic, she is there revealed
Speaker 3: to be there when Peter gets bitten by his radioactive
Speaker 3: spider Bendis was also able to lean into the original
Speaker 3: inspiration because Jessica Drew was a PI and that was
Speaker 3: where the comic came from. So now he had a
Speaker 3: completely original character with connections to an iconic hero and
Speaker 3: none of the worrisome ties to a more prudish time,
Speaker 3: which men he could do what he really wanted, show
Speaker 3: Jessica Jones getting railed on page by Luke Cage. That
Speaker 3: is really what this book is about, guys like that
Speaker 3: is what he wanted. That would happen in the very
Speaker 3: first issue with a multiple page sex scene of her
Speaker 3: get fuck from behind. It's very, very very graphic, immediately
Speaker 3: establishing that this wasn't a comic for kids, bi bang Pow, etc.
Speaker 3: The series would then quickly dive into Jones's past as
Speaker 3: a superheroine known as Jewel. This series is called Alias
Speaker 3: by the way, alias number one is where she debuted.
Speaker 3: You can read this on your favorite Marvel Unlimited or
Speaker 3: Libby app. You can even grab a trade and we
Speaker 3: get into some of the stuff Jason talked about from
Speaker 3: the TV show. She's Jewel, a young superheroine with a
Speaker 3: bright smile and offensively cheery costume whose peaceful life as
Speaker 3: a young child was destroyed when her family were killed
Speaker 3: on the way to Disney World crashing into a nuclear
Speaker 3: radioactive waste truck very similar to Matt Murdock's powers, and
Speaker 3: she is eventually adopted by seemingly kind parents who put
Speaker 3: her back into school and they seem to be up
Speaker 3: and up for the Radioactive Team, but her costumed career
Speaker 3: ends into tragedy after she tries to stop the nightmarish
Speaker 3: psychic villain known as Kilgrave aka the Purple Man. Fans
Speaker 3: of the show will know where that story goes, But
Speaker 3: what you might not know Marvel didn't actually have the
Speaker 3: rights at the time or the guts to have introduced
Speaker 3: a big screen female hero. So in the comics, Jessica
Speaker 3: Jones is actually saved from Kilgrave by none other than
Speaker 3: Carol Danvers, who is the only Avenger who knows who
Speaker 3: she is, and then she is taken to the X
Speaker 3: Mansion to have a psychic block put on her brain
Speaker 3: by none other than Jean Gray to help her protect
Speaker 3: herself against Killgrave. I love the version needed in the
Speaker 3: comics where they give her a bit more agency, but
Speaker 3: obviously we love Geen Gray, so that would have been
Speaker 3: nice to see in the comics. She would later on
Speaker 3: go along to fight alongside the Avengers, she would get
Speaker 3: married to Luke Cage, they would have a child who
Speaker 3: would go on to get babysat by Squirrel Girl and It.
Speaker 3: But even with all of that kind of juicy jaunty stuff,
Speaker 3: it was really her dark and noir drenched original series
Speaker 3: that fans remember. That doesn't mean she hasn't been active though,
Speaker 3: as you may have spotted Jones in the original Young
Speaker 3: Avenger series. She's like one of the few serious adults.
Speaker 3: We have multiple events that she's featured in, like Civil War,
Speaker 3: Dark Grain, and Secret Invasion, and she even got her
Speaker 3: own superhero man during the twenty tens, taking on the
Speaker 3: name of power Woman because she was married to Luke
Speaker 3: Cage power Man. Most recently, though, and most excitingly, Sam
Speaker 3: Humphries the writer this year has pited her against Slash,
Speaker 3: teamed her up with one of my favorite characters from
Speaker 3: Dead ebul kanan typhoid Mary, in a Hannibal like the
Speaker 3: Esque scheme to catch a new nefarious serial killer in
Speaker 3: the re released now new Alias series called Alias Red Band,
Speaker 3: which is that really super violent stuff marb has been doing.
Speaker 3: So that's a little bit of comic book history about
Speaker 3: Jessica Jones and where you can find her. Jason, do
Speaker 3: you remember the first time that you read Alias?
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I do. I read it in the comic
Speaker 1: book store because I didn't have money. I didn't have
Speaker 1: a lot of spending money at that particular time, so
Speaker 1: I was doing a lot of standing in the comic
Speaker 1: book store reading stuff.
Speaker 2: As it came out.
Speaker 1: And then later on I did buy the kind of
Speaker 1: like Max Compendium, but this would be after mister Bendis
Speaker 1: had kind of like ascended to being essentially like the
Speaker 1: creative the main creative force at Marvel for the early
Speaker 1: parts of the of the two thousands. So it really
Speaker 1: left an impression, you know, it was reading that at
Speaker 1: the time I had I was not like super aware
Speaker 1: of Bendis. I had, I had who had become most
Speaker 1: familiar with his work through Daredevil. But the thing that
Speaker 1: like still strikes me about Alias and Bendis's like work
Speaker 1: even to this day. I think Bendess is great. I
Speaker 1: think I think he did a lot to revitalize Marvel,
Speaker 1: like a lot, a lot, a lot, and his influence
Speaker 1: on the early MCU is something that you can't you
Speaker 1: can't can't be denied, can't underrate it, like particularly Tony's
Speaker 1: relationship to the Avengers and Steve et cetera. Like a
Speaker 1: lot of that groundwork was was laid by Brian Michael Bendis.
Speaker 1: That guy loves to pack the words.
Speaker 3: In man, he loves writer, and he's also he's just
Speaker 3: a white guy doing his best. So there's a lot
Speaker 3: of stuff in there that you know doesn't always hold up.
Speaker 3: It is a dense book, and I would definitely say
Speaker 3: for some of our audience members like take in account
Speaker 3: the trigger warnings, read about the stuff that's in there.
Speaker 3: It's a very brutal book, but it was very different
Speaker 3: for the time. And I think something that again really
Speaker 3: stood out to me on Rewatch the first season of
Speaker 3: the show is really quite similar, Like there's a lot
Speaker 3: of character imaginings. Yeah, with introducing stuff, but the meat
Speaker 3: of it, and even like the opening and the broad
Speaker 3: shape is really akin to it, which is a fun
Speaker 3: experience if you're someone who hasn't gotten to see something
Speaker 3: that's been that closely adapted. Because obviously a lot of
Speaker 3: our Infinity sagas and our kind of civil wars are
Speaker 3: very loose takes on what the comics that they were
Speaker 3: originally based on and have kind of shifted over the years.
Speaker 3: But the early stuff of Max and this is really
Speaker 3: really similar, really really similar.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of our.
Speaker 3: Favorites Jones, Jones moments or stories from the comics.
Speaker 1: Well, I would go the original alias, I think for
Speaker 1: introducing Jessica Jones. Then I would say the Pulse.
Speaker 3: Yes, I was gonna say, let's talk a little bit
Speaker 3: about that, because that's part of our history I didn't
Speaker 3: really get into.
Speaker 1: So the Pulse is like how Jessica moved from the
Speaker 1: Max universe to the mainstream markets.
Speaker 2: Basically, she takes a job.
Speaker 1: As a consultant at the Daily Bugle and is working
Speaker 1: with everybody's favorite to put upon journalist in New York City,
Speaker 1: Ben Europe, and I think it's a break and they're
Speaker 1: working on like a like a superhero centric column called
Speaker 1: The Pulse that's gonna like report on everything going on
Speaker 1: with superheroes. It's like it's like part trade magazine, like
Speaker 1: the Hollywood Reporter of Variety and part TMS, but also
Speaker 1: part like hard news. And it was just really cool,
Speaker 1: like a really cool approach to the character. I love
Speaker 1: Ben Urick, I love the Newly Bugle, I love that stuff,
Speaker 1: and so I thought it was a I thought it
Speaker 1: was a really interesting way to integrate her character into
Speaker 1: the main Marvel time.
Speaker 3: That's such a good point because also what's really unique
Speaker 3: about this book is the ability for Marvel to trust Brian,
Speaker 3: Michael Bennis and Michael Gatos to do this book as
Speaker 3: well to do the introduction, so it's still very much
Speaker 3: in line with Alias. We get to see more of
Speaker 3: Jewel here. This is just such a fun idea for
Speaker 3: a book. I was very influenced by The Pulse when
Speaker 3: I started my DC Dish column at DC, where I
Speaker 3: basically became like an in universe gossip columnist. I love
Speaker 3: that one great call. I'm also going to shout out
Speaker 3: the New Avengers. There was a New Avengers, great y'all
Speaker 3: with Bye Brian, Michael Bennis and one of the best
Speaker 3: right artists to ever do it, Olivia Koypel. We love
Speaker 3: him so much. He's so unbelievable. And you get this
Speaker 3: really great marriage issue in that one. It's a marriage
Speaker 3: story about Luke Age and Jessica Jones. The art is stunning.
Speaker 3: You get to see baby Danielle, you get to see
Speaker 3: the Avengers Tower wedding, and it's just some really interesting
Speaker 3: fun stuff that then led into you know, these big seasons.
Speaker 1: That's the wedding issue, right, it's so fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I would then go with.
Speaker 2: Blind Spot.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Kellie Thompson and Mattia d a Eulis.
Speaker 3: I believe this is I love Kelly did such a
Speaker 3: good job on.
Speaker 1: This book, did a great job. And I believe it's
Speaker 1: the first time that Jessica Jones was written by someone
Speaker 1: not Bendus.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I also think it's the first time that she This
Speaker 3: was when they launched a Jessica Jones series rather than
Speaker 3: Alias series.
Speaker 1: And that one was fun. It didn't I think it
Speaker 1: only lasted like a year and a half, but a
Speaker 1: good run. There's some uh the investigated stuff, the kind
Speaker 1: of long running arts are good. There's some like bottle
Speaker 1: Ish Shoes that are not so great. But I thought,
Speaker 1: but it proved basically that like Jessica Jones is not
Speaker 1: like a one off, it's anybody could write her, Like
Speaker 1: if you have a good idea, then yeah, give it
Speaker 1: to you know, you can use Jessica Jones. It's not
Speaker 1: just Bendis who can who has like the trademark on
Speaker 1: the character.
Speaker 3: Interestingly, they actually did like a Bendis Defender's little arc
Speaker 3: when the Defender's Show came out with Luke Cage with
Speaker 3: Iron Fist, with Jessica Jones with Dead Devil in the
Speaker 3: black and red suit with art by David Marquez. That
Speaker 3: is also really fun. Like they were doing a lot
Speaker 3: of stuff around the Marvel comics because this was at
Speaker 3: the time when they wanted to highlight the characters who
Speaker 3: are owned by Marvel and who they were making money off,
Speaker 3: so they would still make comics to tie them in,
Speaker 3: whereas they wouldn't necessarily make comics if there was you know,
Speaker 3: a Sony spider Man movie, et cetera. Some other fun
Speaker 3: ones Jessica Jones and the variants. That was a gel
Speaker 3: simone one where it was kind of this idea of
Speaker 3: like a team of all the characters she could have been.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like a time loopy, sliding doorsy sort
Speaker 3: of story. So yeah, there's a lot of fun stuff,
Speaker 3: and that new Jessica Jones book is really cool, so definitely, yeah,
Speaker 3: check out that Alias Red band right now because that's
Speaker 3: a really fun one to get into before the show
Speaker 3: comes back.
Speaker 1: On the next episode of X ray Vision, we're going
Speaker 1: to the Sun, the Sun diving into Project Tale Icarus.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening. X ray
Speaker 1: Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight and
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Fay Wax.
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator