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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 1: Good morning everyone. I can't be as loud as Sager,

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Speaker 1: but we are loudly internally, Crystal wishing him the best

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Speaker 1: honeymoon ever. He's off to Japan at this very moment,

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Speaker 1: so we miss him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah absolutely. I would love to go to Japan, but

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Speaker 2: I would not love the trip and the jat lag, so.

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Speaker 1: Not interested in thank you, but it is.

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Speaker 4: I'm ready for that level of travel suffering.

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Speaker 1: So everyone's in for Girl shows for the next what

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Speaker 1: three shows until Thanksgiving? Right? Yeah, that's great, So get

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Speaker 1: ready for four hour long shows.

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Speaker 2: That's right, because Emily and I when we get together,

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Speaker 2: do the longest shows ever for whatever reason. Look at

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Speaker 2: the clock, we'relyps yep indeed. But there is a lot

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Speaker 2: to talk about this morning, lots of interesting stories actually,

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Speaker 2: so it's official now Comcast is spitting off MSNBC. There's

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Speaker 2: a bit of a freak out happening over there at

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Speaker 2: the network. So obviously for me as a former MSNBC person,

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Speaker 2: it's very the tables have turned.

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Speaker 4: One might say, I'm excited for that segment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a lot a lot to say there,

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Speaker 2: so we'll get into that. Also, we have some a

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Speaker 2: look at some interesting ways that liberals are coping with

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris's loss, O bringing about as well new details

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Speaker 2: about Elon and Vivek's plans. And Emily and I are

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Speaker 2: going to talk about whether or not Trump is sort

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Speaker 2: of overreaching and over reading I guess his mandate that

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Speaker 2: he received in this election. The Jump Food Lobby is

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Speaker 2: gearing up to do battle with RFK Junior. An interesting

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Speaker 2: report there. The ICC has now officially issued arrest warrants

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Speaker 2: for both Babing net Yahoo and Yo of Goalt. So

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Speaker 2: we'll bring you those details. There's also some significant developments

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Speaker 2: on the domestic front with regard to Israel policy in

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Speaker 2: the Senate led by Bernie Sanders, So give you those

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Speaker 2: details as well. My friend Torri is going to be here.

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Speaker 2: He has some very interesting reporting from inside the Kamala

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Speaker 2: Harris campaign where basically the campaign chair, like the person

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Speaker 2: who's running the campaign, doesn't really like Kamala Harris and

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Speaker 2: was sort of like sabotaging her from within, which is

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Speaker 2: not a great thing when you're trying to win the presidency.

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Speaker 2: So she was a Biden loyalist, General Malle Dillon. She

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Speaker 2: was one of the people who was always like sort

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Speaker 2: of smearing Kamala to the press behind the scenes, trying

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Speaker 2: to undercut her. And so you have to stick with

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Speaker 2: Biden because this lady's terrible and she's not electable. And

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Speaker 2: then she ends up in charge of the campaign. So

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Speaker 2: when you wonder why the staff never prepared Kamala, not

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Speaker 2: that it's not also on Kamala to be prepared for

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Speaker 2: this question of like how are you different from Biden

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Speaker 2: or what would you do differently? They didn't want her

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Speaker 2: to separate from Biden because they're like Biden Biden people

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Speaker 2: so he got some really interesting behind the scenes details there.

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Speaker 2: I'm taking a look at Nancy Mace and her whole

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Speaker 2: interest in the bathroom at the Capital facility, and also

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Speaker 2: how Democrats can better respond to some of these questions

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Speaker 2: about transgender issues. So a lot to say on that

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Speaker 2: one as well.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and Crystal, I am wondering who we could ask

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Speaker 1: about MSNBC. Who do we know that might have some

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Speaker 1: connectivity there into MSNBC. I think maybe you have thoughts

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Speaker 1: on everything that's going.

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Speaker 2: Down a little bit a little bit, yes, so we'll

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Speaker 2: go ahead and get into that before we do. Though, Guys,

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Speaker 2: if you can become premium subscriber, we would love you

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Speaker 2: for it, and it would support all the exciting things

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Speaker 2: that we're planning to do this year Breakingpoints dot com.

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Speaker 2: If you cannot become a premium subscriber, or you already

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Speaker 2: are a premium subscriber, make sure you like and share

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Speaker 2: the videos on YouTube. That helps us ound a lot.

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Speaker 2: We really want people to know about what we're up

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Speaker 2: to here. You know, We've got a lot of plans

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Speaker 2: in terms of this is one of the only big

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Speaker 2: Internet shows, maybe the only big Internet show that's.

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Speaker 4: Here in DC.

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Speaker 2: So we're kind of uniquely positioned to as politicians wake

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Speaker 2: up to the fact that actually, like alternative media is

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Speaker 2: really important and a lot of people watch it and

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Speaker 2: maybe you should be engaging with that or kind of

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Speaker 2: uniquely positioned to take advantage of that moment. So if

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Speaker 2: you can, like, if you can share those things all

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Speaker 2: really help us out over on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: And that is just a perfect transition to the segment. Actually,

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Speaker 1: that is true, the ripest time to support independent media

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Speaker 1: is so important to help the political class kind of

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Speaker 1: wake up to what's happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. So let's go and put the

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Speaker 2: official news up on the screen here. So Comcast has

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Speaker 2: decided and officially announced that they are going to spin

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Speaker 2: off a number of their cable channels. So it's not

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Speaker 2: just MSMBC, but this is a huge deal because they're

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Speaker 2: keeping the NBC News brand under Comcast. The spinoff, though

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Speaker 2: will include MSNBC. Raises all kinds of questions about the

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Speaker 2: future of that network, which of course is really really

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Speaker 2: struggling postcomlawst loss. You know, their whole sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: The world has just been dramatically undercut. You also had

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Speaker 2: the whole incident with Joe and Nika going down to

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Speaker 2: mar A Lago. You and Ryan reported on the fact

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Speaker 2: that even just an hour later, their audience were basically like,

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Speaker 2: screw you, We're done here.

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Speaker 1: Who could blame them?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 4: Who could blame them?

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Speaker 2: When two weeks earlier you got Joe saying Trump is

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Speaker 2: hitler and then hey, we're making nice with him, We're restarting,

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Speaker 2: restarting negotiations, restarting communications recent Yeah, so you know, they're

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Speaker 2: really in the wilderness. And I think the fact that

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Speaker 2: you have this spinoff coming right now, you know, it

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Speaker 2: genuinely raises questions about whether or not this network is

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Speaker 2: even going to be able to survive into the future.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, MSNBC is one of the most interesting places

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Speaker 1: in media right now because they're an old brand and

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Speaker 1: old traditional media property cable. Old in the sense of

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Speaker 1: like several decades cood.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, early two thousands. I guess they launched maybe in

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Speaker 2: the late nineties, nineties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I just listened to a podcast about it. It

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Speaker 1: was pretty interesting, oddly enough. But Microsoft NBC, of that's right,

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Speaker 1: because why not why not just merge corporations and news

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Speaker 1: gathering organizations?

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Speaker 2: But what could go wrong?

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Speaker 1: It seems Fine's what's interesting about it though, is that

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Speaker 1: it's developed a really niche audience, but it's still trying

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Speaker 1: to do kind of monoculture, you know, big picture reach

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people. In order to get you know,

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Speaker 1: to compete with Fox News, they would have to be

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Speaker 1: in primetime getting a couple million people at least each hour,

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Speaker 1: and that's not happening because they started, you know, marketing

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Speaker 1: themselves to a sliver of the public, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: the best analogy I use is it's Stephen Colbert versus

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Speaker 1: Johnny Carson, right, like you just everyone has more choice now,

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Speaker 1: So if you can corner one demo, you can do

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Speaker 1: really well. But that means you have to keep them

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Speaker 1: in the bubble because they don't want the content outside

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Speaker 1: the bubble. It's comfort food. Fine, it's not how I

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Speaker 1: like to get my news. But if you want to

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Speaker 1: break the comfort food bubble, you're gonna lose your audience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, last time around, after Trump won in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 2: you know, after the initial shock, MSNBC really dug in

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Speaker 2: on the whole like Russia Gate drama, and it was compelling, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean a lot of it was completely falsom phony

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Speaker 2: and a lie that they were selling their audience and

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Speaker 2: straining them along. You might think the audience would have

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Speaker 2: lost trust then, but it was compelling. People are tuning

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Speaker 2: in to Rachel Mattow every night to know, like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: what's the next shoe that's going to drop, what's the

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Speaker 2: next piece of evidence that we're going to get in

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Speaker 2: this grand conspiracy that they were spinning. And so even though,

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Speaker 2: like I said, it was not accurate, it did make

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Speaker 2: for great television and they created, you know, a bit

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Speaker 2: of a liberal juggernaut and were out pacing CNN a

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Speaker 2: lot of times because they were willing to lean into that.

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Speaker 2: You know, this time around, there is no grand conspiracy.

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Speaker 4: Trump is no longer a one off.

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Speaker 2: He just won. And the direction that MSNBC has pushed

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Speaker 2: the party in which has been not just to you know,

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Speaker 2: resist Trump, but to also even more aggressively in a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways, resist the Like Bernie Left within the

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Speaker 2: partymbraced the Nicole Wallace's the Liz Cheney's of the world

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Speaker 2: like Morning Joe was the beating heart of that embrace

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Speaker 2: of the never Trump movement as being central to the

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Speaker 2: Democratic Party and central to the strategy of the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 2: That whole notion has just been completely obliterated. So you know,

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Speaker 2: one of the big problems they're going to face is

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Speaker 2: now without having NBC News there to assist them in

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Speaker 2: any sort of news gathering, and they don't really have

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Speaker 2: their own news gathering operation.

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Speaker 1: She's NBC right, right, So.

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Speaker 2: Then they're just in the like hot takes business, you know,

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Speaker 2: like we are. We have Ryan doing real journalism and

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Speaker 2: you're doing real journalism.

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Speaker 1: You never talks about it, right, that's the difference, Like

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Speaker 1: we're fundamentally honest about it and we say we're coming

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Speaker 1: from positions of bias. And Nicole Wallace will still I

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Speaker 1: heard her the other day talking about how objectively X

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Speaker 1: Y and Z is disinformation. She was talking about it

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Speaker 1: with somebody hilarious. I forget exactly who it was. I

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Speaker 1: think it was someone from Media Matters, and she was

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Speaker 1: talking about how objectively this one fact is totally wrong.

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Speaker 1: It's like, what are you smoking, Nicole Wallace? I mean,

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Speaker 1: probably nothing, that's the sad part. She doesn't smoke anything

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Speaker 1: to be delusional, true, but I mean Fox, it's a

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Speaker 1: lot of comfort food, yes, But even when you were

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Speaker 1: on MSNBC, they had voices in that were from different

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Speaker 1: perspectives because they knew that disagreement was good for TV.

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Speaker 1: CNN is starting to try and do this again. They

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Speaker 1: really minimized it during the Trump years, but MSNBC has

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Speaker 1: really become an echo chamber of like Feds agreeing with

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Speaker 1: centrist Democrats about policies, just like nodding sagely.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. So just to give you a

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Speaker 2: little bit of like the history of MSNBC, which I'm

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Speaker 2: curious what podcast you listen to, because I want to.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious what they had to say as well. But

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Speaker 2: you know, it started off as just to try to

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Speaker 2: be like a rival to CNN and just kind of

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Speaker 2: like straight news, right, and then they kind of stumbled

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Speaker 2: into this liberal branding. It wasn't intentional from the executives

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Speaker 2: at the top, but Keith Olberman during the Iraq War days,

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Speaker 2: you know, was very He copied some of the model

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Speaker 2: of like sports newscasts, you know, and some of that

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Speaker 2: like that energy chuckerty and yeah, and he really you know,

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Speaker 2: captured a moment and so his ratings really blow up.

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Speaker 2: They lean into that. Rachel Maddow comes down of you

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Speaker 2: know that she was regular guests on that show, she

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Speaker 2: comes out on that she and then so they just

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Speaker 2: sort of lean into, Okay, this is working for us,

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Speaker 2: or we're just going to keep going down this path.

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Speaker 2: And I think the other big mistake that they made

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Speaker 2: is in that twenty sixteen Democratic primary fight, rather than

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Speaker 2: being the venue where these things are really battled out

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Speaker 2: and where you really have both sides of that Hillary

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Speaker 2: versus Birdie divide represented, instead of that, they overtly sided

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Speaker 2: with Hillary and the Democratic establishment. And you know, they

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Speaker 2: wanted to keep their access and that was important to

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Speaker 2: them and their business model, and ultimately MSNBC, in the

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Speaker 2: grand scheme of comcasts, is like a little blip on

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Speaker 2: their bottom line, so they don't even care that much

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Speaker 2: about the ratings, and you know, Hillary is more acceptable

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Speaker 2: and more comfortable for them. Were prestigious to be aligned

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Speaker 2: with these forces in the Democratic Party that have power,

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Speaker 2: but in the in the in doing that, they also

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Speaker 2: shut themselves off from not just the half of the

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Speaker 2: country that isn't Democratic, but they also shut them off

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Speaker 2: themselves off from the part of the party that was

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Speaker 2: like young and rising and energetic, and made themselves adversarial

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Speaker 2: to you know, that wing of the party as well.

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Speaker 2: So now you're slicing down your potential audience even further.

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Speaker 1: And so well, by the way, playing into the identity

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Speaker 1: politics game with Joy read and a surprising obviously and

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Speaker 1: like from the perspective of a genuine leftist like you were, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: that they're using that as their sort of fig leaf

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Speaker 1: to promote like corporatism. Of course that's what happened. Happened,

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Speaker 1: but they went all in on the sort of cultural

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Speaker 1: like progressive.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, that's that's correct. And people who watch

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Speaker 2: the show or have read Ryan's book, because he really,

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Speaker 2: you know, literally wrote the book on this, will recall

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Speaker 2: that the identity politics direction of the Democratic Party didn't

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Speaker 2: come from the Bernie Sanders left. It came directly from

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Speaker 2: the Hillary Clinton campaign trying to blunt the Bernie Sanders

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Speaker 2: movement and using these this you know, very academic language

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Speaker 2: and these niche identity issues as a way to smear

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Speaker 2: Bernie and his movement as being sexist and racist and

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Speaker 2: is not being truly progressive because all they care about

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Speaker 2: are these broad based class economic issues. And you know,

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Speaker 2: that was effective in a sense, It was effective enough

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Speaker 2: that Bernie felt the need to respond to some of

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Speaker 2: that in twenty twenty. But yeah, that's the the identity

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Speaker 2: issues have often been used, and certainly were used at

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Speaker 2: MSNBC as a way to virtue signal as if you

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Speaker 2: were on the left, virtue signal as if you were progressive,

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Speaker 2: while maintaining all of your corporate goodies for the darna

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Speaker 2: class and increasingly affluent base. It's funny people were having

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Speaker 2: this identity politics debate online and Matt Iglesias pointed out,

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Speaker 2: not the biggest Matagalasis fan, but he's correct about this.

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Speaker 2: He's like, well, one way then identity politics was quite

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Speaker 2: salient is that Biden picked Kamala Harris because of you know,

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Speaker 2: pressure from Jim Clyburn and you know, sort of promises

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Speaker 2: that he had made on the campaign trail about diversity.

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Speaker 2: So he ends up picking this vice presidential candidate who

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Speaker 2: had no demonstrated track record of electoral success and had

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Speaker 2: in fact been rejected in the Democratic primary. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I pointed out, yeah, that's true, but take note of

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Speaker 2: where that came from. That didn't come from the left

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Speaker 2: of the party. That came from Joe Biden and the

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Speaker 2: centrist So now in the you know post mortems to

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Speaker 2: then turn around and try to blame the Bernie Sanders

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Speaker 2: left for the identity politics that you all invented and

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Speaker 2: used and weabinized against the Bernie Sanders left.

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Speaker 4: Is just like, it's not too perfect. Yeah, it's not

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Speaker 4: it too perfect.

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Speaker 2: So, as I mentioned before, Joe and Mika, they're the

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Speaker 2: you know, beating heart of the never Trump embraced the

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Speaker 2: Liz Cheney mode of the Democratic Party, and they had

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Speaker 2: a little bit of gallows humor on the show of

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Speaker 2: what this Comcast MSNBC spinoff might mean for them. Let's

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Speaker 2: take a listen to that.

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Speaker 7: Our parent company, NBC Universal, plans to spin off it's

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Speaker 7: cable TV networks. That's according to the Wall Street Journal

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Speaker 7: and people familiar with the situation. The company will separate

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Speaker 7: off entertainment and news channels, including MSNBC, CNBC USA, Oxygen E,

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Speaker 7: Sci Fi, and the Golf Channel, so it's spinning on.

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Speaker 7: The new cable venture will reportedly have an ownership structure

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Speaker 7: that mirrors Comcasts.

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Speaker 8: I mean, I could be completely wrong. We could all

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Speaker 8: be fired a year from that. Well, it has happens.

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Speaker 8: You never know what's going to happen Tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Art.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: But in this case, though, Willie, what they're doing is

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Speaker 8: what other media firms are doing. You spin off the

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Speaker 8: cable channels which seven years ago were making a ton

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Speaker 8: of money. Now they've got to figure out how to

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Speaker 8: make them profitable. Disney, which by the way, huge media news.

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Speaker 8: Disney figured out now how to make streaming profitable. Peacock

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Speaker 8: had an extraordinary success in the Olympics.

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Speaker 5: So they're talking about spinning this off.

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Speaker 8: Comcast still owns I think Brian Roberts still owns a.

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Speaker 5: Third of that.

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Speaker 8: And because Comcasts didn't jump into the bidding war like

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Speaker 8: everybody else throwing stupid money at streaming services and then

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Speaker 8: watch it up, Comcast has a ton of cash. So

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Speaker 8: now they spin this off and they're in a position

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Speaker 8: to what do you all say, to to get a

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Speaker 8: lot of to get a lot of vilidate and consolidate,

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Speaker 8: but also to just ramp up. And so you get

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Speaker 8: a lot of people, a lot of different channels together

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Speaker 8: and so whatever that endedy is going to be, there'll

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Speaker 8: probably be a lot of cable channels and to be

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Speaker 8: in a much better position.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, this is to keep these networks like this network

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Speaker 9: healthy and to keep Comcasts thriving the way it is,

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Speaker 9: and this is just the way it's going.

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Speaker 10: People are cutting the cord right there.

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Speaker 9: The cables subscribers are down across the board. This is

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Speaker 9: something Bob Iger talked about last year doing.

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Speaker 1: Crystal Willie Geist is an NBC News employee. That's true.

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Speaker 1: Throwing that question to him was dangerous.

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Speaker 2: True. Yeah, no, that is a great point. And you know,

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Speaker 2: one of the things that these people are going to

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Speaker 2: have to reckon with is like their business model where

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Speaker 2: Joe and Mika are making millions a year. You know,

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Speaker 2: they've got a bunch of highly paid talent, they have

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Speaker 2: large teams, production teams, you know, huge overhead costs. That

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Speaker 2: business model just doesn't really work anymore, you know, as

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Speaker 2: your rating slide, and then more importantly, as cable companies

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Speaker 2: start to ask themselves like is this really worth it

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Speaker 2: for me to be paying you the cable carriage rate?

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Speaker 2: That is what they really depend on in terms of

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Speaker 2: their budget. So yeah, they're they're in for it because

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Speaker 2: now effectively they're basically in the same business set we are,

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Speaker 2: and try to figure it out with this giant behemoth

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Speaker 2: and all this overhead and all these overpaid like celebrity

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Speaker 2: hosts that no one really cares about or wants to

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Speaker 2: hear from, and so it's going to be difficult for them.

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Speaker 2: Put let's put some of the specifics up here on

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Speaker 2: the screen about what the concerns are internally and how

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Speaker 2: this was all delivered. So, they said, the prospect of

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Speaker 2: being separated from NBC News raised news has raised alarms

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Speaker 2: among journalists at the company because MSNBC and CNBC routinely

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Speaker 2: share reportage contributors and war and because much of MSNBC's

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Speaker 2: daytime schedules filled with correspondents who are affiliated with the

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Speaker 2: more traditional NBC News, not the opinion programs that are

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Speaker 2: MSNBC's most watch properties. Let's put the next piece up

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Speaker 2: on the screen. They say that they could also have

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Speaker 2: to consider changing their name and familiar markings, so they

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Speaker 2: may not be able to hold on to that NBC

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Speaker 2: part of the MSNBC or CNBC name. Let's go and

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Speaker 2: put the next piece up on the screen. So they

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Speaker 2: describe the new company as a quote well funded startup.

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Speaker 2: These people said indicated they would have a presence in Manhattan,

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Speaker 2: but noted that executives were not certain at present where

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Speaker 2: the corporation would be based.

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Speaker 1: That is brutal a well funded startup, and that really

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Speaker 1: is I mean, it's not a bad place to begin,

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Speaker 1: by the way, because imagine if they understood new media.

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Speaker 1: CNN actually does some big numbers on YouTube. Imagine if

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Speaker 1: they understood new media and figured out what they could do.

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Speaker 1: We're about to talk about what Piers Morgan does on

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Speaker 1: his show in just a bit. Yeah, Like, they don't

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Speaker 1: have the will to lean into what people actually really

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Speaker 1: want other than a pretty small slice of the public

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Speaker 1: that wants to eat up whatever Nicole Wallace they're serving

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Speaker 1: day in, day out. But that's not a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: It definitely exists, but it's not a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, I mean, you can be a well

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Speaker 1: funded startup and you can figure some of this stuff

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Speaker 1: out if you're smart enough to and if you're actually

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Speaker 1: if you have the political stomach for quote unquote platforming

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Speaker 1: all of these debates. But that's the question for them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and the other thing is, you know, CNN

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Speaker 2: doesn't have to live and die just by like their

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Speaker 2: YouTube revenue stream, because again, the numbers would not work out.

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Speaker 2: Even as they get good numbers on YouTube, the numbers

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Speaker 2: would not work out to support, you know, multimillion dollar

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Speaker 2: salaries for their hosts who don't really drive views in particular,

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Speaker 2: like no one really cares how much what Wolf Flizzer

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Speaker 2: has to say at all. Well, Splitzer monologue, large production overhead,

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Speaker 2: like you know, they have other revenue streams still, So

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Speaker 2: this is yeah and the other thing. So let me

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Speaker 2: show you this club, because to me, it just demonstrates.

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Speaker 2: This is Mike Barnacle who was weighing in on this

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Speaker 2: poll that came out about how many people now, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, get their news from social media and from

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Speaker 2: YouTube and other, you know, other places other than cable

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Speaker 2: news and newspapers. And what's evident to me in this

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Speaker 2: conversation is that they really have never thought about this,

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Speaker 2: Like they don't get it at all. It's like a

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Speaker 2: foreign world to them that they've never had to grapple

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Speaker 2: with it for the first time. They're like, holy shit,

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Speaker 2: I got to wrap my head around what is going

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Speaker 2: on over here.

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Speaker 1: And just before we tossed to it, Yeah, Ryan and

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Speaker 1: I talked yesterday about Joe Scarborough coming back from his

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Speaker 1: announcement that Meka and he had gone to Amoral ago

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Speaker 1: the next day and saying for the first time in

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Speaker 1: my life, I have seen how out of touch social

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Speaker 1: media is with reality. And it's like, Bro, you have

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Speaker 1: been covering the news for how many years, and just

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Speaker 1: now because it affected you, you noticed that there's a

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Speaker 1: disconnect between social media and the outside world.

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Speaker 2: But to me, it's actually the exactly wrong time to

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Speaker 2: learn that lesson, because to me, one of the big

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Speaker 2: parts of this election was like, oh, actually, social media

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Speaker 2: does bear a lot of resemblance to the real world.

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Speaker 2: That there's been a flip now where it used to

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Speaker 2: be able to say, oh, what's happening on Twitter is

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Speaker 2: not real life, Like what's happening in these spaces and

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Speaker 2: not real life? It's like, no, actually, this is real

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Speaker 2: life now. This is representative of something larger that's going

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Speaker 2: on and not just like a niche online bubble sentiment.

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Speaker 2: And that's why this election you flip into being the

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Speaker 2: podcast election. How successful that strategy was ultimately for the

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Speaker 2: Trump campaign. I think it's the exact wrong time to

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Speaker 2: learn that lesson. If anything, at this point you should

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Speaker 2: be saying, you know, there actually is more going on

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Speaker 2: there than I really thought so, but he's got to

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Speaker 2: protect himself and believe that the people who are in

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Speaker 2: his role it about home calling him are the ones

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Speaker 2: who really get have their finger on the pulse of

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Speaker 2: what's going on out there. Yeah, it's amazing, Yeah, incredible.

436
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 2: All right, let's take a listen to Mike Barnacle and

437
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 2: how he was grappling with us.

438
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 8: And Mike, that's the challenge you grew up in a

439
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 8: newsroom like Jean drow up in a newsroom. I mean,

440
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 8: that's a lot of challenge. That's a challenge for a

441
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 8: lot of mainstream media sources. Do they make themselves relevant again?

442
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 8: To here twenty percent of adults who actually get influencers

443
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 8: on social media.

444
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 5: I don't know how.

445
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 8: Maybe somebody who makes baskets and while they're making baskets

446
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 8: say look up and say vote for Canada Acts.

447
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 11: I don't know how they make themselves we make ourselves

448
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,679
Speaker 11: relevant again because we can't compete with twenty second snippets

449
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 11: on an iPhone walking up corcles, getting your entire news

450
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 11: digest of the day in less than a minute on

451
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 11: your phone as you're walking into the crowd with coffee in.

452
00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 5: One hand on your phone and the other. I don't

453
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 5: know how how we catch up to that.

454
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, So Gene Robinson, do you agree with Mike because

455
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 8: I find this hard to believe that younger voters would

456
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 8: be more interested in getting and entertaining twenty news twenty

457
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 8: second news snippet than watching a cable news show for

458
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:21,959
Speaker 8: four hours from six a years. It seems like an

459
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 8: easy choice to us here, what is.

460
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 10: Wrong with these people? Exactly?

461
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that segment says so much. First of all,

462
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 2: the example that Joe gives of, like somebody's like, we've

463
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 2: in baskets and then they look up and they're like,

464
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 2: vote Canada. Have you literally ever been on YouTube? Have

465
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 2: you ever listened to a podcast?

466
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: Have you?

467
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 2: Where have you been? And then Mike Barnacle like, oh

468
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 2: my god, they're just consuming these twenty second snippets. And

469
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 2: the thing that's funny to me coming out of the

470
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 2: cable news world and into this world is I had

471
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 2: the exact opposite experience of like, oh, in cable news,

472
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: you have these truncated segments where you get maybe like

473
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 2: five minutes in an interview if you're gonna do we

474
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 2: used to do monologues at the cycle. They had to

475
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 2: be three minutes long. I was lucky if I could

476
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 2: make one point effectively. And so yeah, some of what's

477
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 2: happening is TikTok and YouTube shorts like these very short

478
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:18,719
Speaker 2: snip is that some of what's happening or you know,

479
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 2: people on Twitter or whatever, but also some of what's

480
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 2: happening is actually really long form and the medium enables

481
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 2: you to do whatever. Now, I have personally become very

482
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 2: disenchanted with alternative media because I think a lot of

483
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 2: it is slop, propaganda junk has in some ways worse

484
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 2: incentives than mainstream media spaces. So I'm not going to

485
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: act like this is all but it's all great that

486
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: like there's a transition intependent media, because I think there's

487
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 2: a lot of problems there as well. But it's striking

488
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 2: to me how little they have interacted with or thought

489
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: about this world. And part of it, especially on the

490
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 2: MSNBC democratic side, part of it is that the left

491
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 2: alternative media ecosystem all sprung up around Bernie Sanders and

492
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 2: since they have total like contempt and disgust for that

493
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 2: movement and think that it's like a bunch of irrelevant,

494
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 2: you know, like useful idiots for Trump or whatever. Since

495
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 2: they have total contempt for that part of the party,

496
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: they've always just you know, overlooked it, dismissed it, thought

497
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 2: it was unimportant, And now suddenly the check is coming

498
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: do and they're realizing like, oh shit, this is the

499
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: world we live in and I have no idea what

500
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 2: to do about that.

501
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: Well, they're also demanding that you take seriously people like

502
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: Mike Barnacle, who's a serial plagiarists. He had to resign

503
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: from the Boston Globe over massive plagiarism scandal. He was

504
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: plagiarizing George Carlin. He was lying then about plagiarizing things.

505
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: It's just like you are putting these people in front

506
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,239
Speaker 1: of us and nobody in this new media atmosphere. I mean,

507
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: baby boomers are still kind of okay with that, like

508
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 1: they get to know TV personalities, whatever else. But everybody

509
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: wants way more authenticity now, meaning like if you want

510
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: to put Mark Barnicle in front of people dan in

511
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: day out, it's probably going to have to talk about

512
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: what happens sometimes because in like YouTube, TikTok Instagram world,

513
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: people just want to trust more than anything. Like they'll

514
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: listen to a socialist tell them the news, right, they

515
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: just want to trust the person like they want to

516
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: hear that. Here's what I'm saying, Here's what I believe.

517
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: I trust that you're smart enough to make your own

518
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: mind up about whether it's true. Yeah, and that's not

519
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: the model that they operate on, and it's not clear

520
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: to me. I mean, we see this at other corporations

521
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: that just you know, one place I think continues to

522
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: not quite get it. Probably get in trouble for saying this,

523
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: But the Hill like still doesn't quite understand what to

524
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: do with rising, right, because they don't understand.

525
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: They're a mess, right, But.

526
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: They don't understand what you have to do in new media.

527
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: They don't understand how different it is and can't quite

528
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: figure it out.

529
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean with regard to Morning Joe too, their

530
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 2: self seriousness and Mike Barnacle acting like, oh, their news protection,

531
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 2: their four hour cable news show, which, by the way,

532
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 2: no one is watching Morning Joe for four frickin hours.

533
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 2: But anyway, I.

534
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: Think some of the boomers are some retirees like posting

535
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: up with five cups.

536
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: Don't do that.

537
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 4: Joe Biden probably watches it.

538
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: Critical Biden demo, but.

539
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 2: That you know, it serves my point, which is that

540
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: probably no group of media figures has been more complicit

541
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: in the destruction of the Democratic Party and thorough abandonment

542
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 2: of the working class than Joe Amica. You know, if

543
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: you think about it, how integral they were in terms of,

544
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: you know, bashing the left populist movement that organically sprung up,

545
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 2: which was a much better response to trump Ism than

546
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 2: the you know, rotting husk of neoliberalism that they were

547
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 2: absolutely dedicated to. They're central to making never Trump Republicans,

548
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: which basically only exist in cable news green rooms, central

549
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 2: to the Democratic Party strategy. They're central to helping Joe

550
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 2: Biden hold on to power long after he should.

551
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 4: I mean, they cozy up to Joe Biden. They were

552
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 4: the Biden.

553
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: Whispers, I mean just told, embedded in this administration which

554
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: is devastatingly unpopular and in which obviously Joe Biden should

555
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 2: never have been running for a second term to begin with.

556
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: Even after that debate, they're still out there running cover

557
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: for him, trying to keep him in, and then ultimately,

558
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 2: you know, being part of blocking any sort of a

559
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 2: democratic process so that Democrats could have chosen a candidate

560
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: who may have been better equipped to go up against

561
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 2: Donald Trump, like They're at the scene of every major

562
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: Democratic Party crime over the past let's say decade, and

563
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: so for them to still think that their news reporting

564
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: and their commentary and whatever helped people to understand the

565
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 2: world during this time period, I mean that's why they're

566
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: ultimately that's why their viewers have just completely fled because

567
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: not only did you not help me understand the world,

568
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: but also you've just exposed yourselves as being just complete liars,

569
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 2: where you said the things that you thought we wanted

570
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: to hear when it was for you about the threat

571
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: of Trump, and someone who thinks Trump is genuinely a threat,

572
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 2: I think that by going down tomorrow Lago and just

573
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 2: instantly bending the knee like that, they also undercut the

574
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 2: seriousness of the threat for those of us who are

575
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 2: saying that, because it makes it look like all of

576
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: us are just out here like saying what we think

577
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 2: people want to hear. So in any case, I think

578
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: you know, they've they've in a lot of ways made

579
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: their own bed, and I think they're in. I do

580
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: not think we will once we will ever again see

581
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: Joe and Mika have the level of power and influence

582
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: that they did during the Biden administration or previous Democratic administrations,

583
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: but especially during the Biden administration and during the first

584
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: Trump administration, Like I think that era is completely over.

585
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: Two final questions. One, is part of the benefit or

586
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: was part of the benefit of having MSNBC as a

587
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: Comcast property, the access that you get by running a

588
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: news channel, Like I'm genuinely curious. I don't. I have

589
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: no idea whether or not that's true, But just do

590
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: you have like important people circling in and out they

591
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: have to be somewhat responsive. I mean, obviously they already

592
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: have NBC News, but you get a little bit more

593
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: leverage over Democrats. That's my second question, Like I saw

594
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: how Rush Limbaugh and the Drudge Report shaped Republicans. Yeah,

595
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: shaped conservatives. Just these media, these media outlets, these formats,

596
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: they shape the way Republicans acted and behaved. And you

597
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: were just making this point about never Trump Republicans driving

598
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: messaging in the Democratic Party partially has a response to

599
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: the content on MSNBC. But does that sort of I mean,

600
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: did Comcast see part of the benefit of keeping MSNBC

601
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: around is having a little bit of sway on the left?

602
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I think, And this is because, like I said,

603
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: and this NBC in the grand scheme of Comcast is

604
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: like a gnat on their ass, right, like it's nothing.

605
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: And in some ways that's a positive for the network

606
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: because then like even if revenue jobs like it doesn't

607
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: really hurt Comcasts that much. On the other hand, I

608
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: think that's a big part of the reason why they

609
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: ultimately made the decision they did in twenty sixteen to

610
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 2: be all in on the Hillary establishment side of the party,

611
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,479
Speaker 2: because that's also the part that you know, the executives

612
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 2: are comfy with, and that's the part they wanted to

613
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: ascend and ultimately since MSNBC for them was mostly sort

614
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: of like a prestige play, like you said, having Cachet

615
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: being a voice in the room whatever. You know, even

616
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: if the ratings and the energy were on the side

617
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: of the Birding movement, and they could have done better

618
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: from a business perspective, I think they could have if

619
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 2: they had leaned into that or at least had those

620
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: voices present at all on the network. They didn't really

621
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: care that much about the revenue because it was so

622
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 2: insignificant to the overall corporate bottom line that they would

623
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 2: rather just try to elevate the part of the party

624
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: that was most comfortable for them and their class interests.

625
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: So to me, that was the biggest significance of having

626
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 2: the large like Comcast brand. On the one hand, you

627
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 2: would think the fact that they don't have to care

628
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 2: that much about small changes in revenue, etc. Would be

629
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: a benefit, but it actually ended up being you know,

630
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: a detriment in terms of having a you know, a

631
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: robust discussion within the Democratic part and hosting all of

632
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: those voices and being able to continue to serve some

633
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: of the younger parts of the Democratic Party that were

634
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: more interested in this left populist direction. I do think

635
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: that it's possible if Kamala wins, because this is kind

636
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: of like a prestige play for them. I do think

637
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: it's possible. I Kamala wins, they don't actually make this move, yeah,

638
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: because then they you know, they continue to have access.

639
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: You know, it's not a problem for them in terms

640
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: of like, you know, with the Trump administration coming in now,

641
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: Comcast has to worry about their own corporate needs with

642
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: regards to its administration and MSNBC out there with host saying

643
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: Trump is hitler and he's a fascist and all of

644
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: these things like that. Can become a problem for the

645
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: larger corporate entity in terms of avoiding you know, regulatory

646
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: backlash and the government being weaponized against them, which obviously

647
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 2: Trump is willing to do. So I don't think the

648
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 2: timing here is an accident. And you know, I suspect

649
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: if Kamala will never know, but I suspect if Kamala

650
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 2: had won, they may not have made this move because

651
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: the prestige place still would have made sense for them

652
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 2: in the grid scheme of like their corporate goals.

653
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: And priorities, say, pharma advertising gets banned from television. If

654
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: RFK juniors confirmed.

655
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: I'll believe that when I see a girl SAME's it happens.

656
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: Goodbye to cable news. True, you can't sell Boniva on

657
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: MSNBC ANDELS.

658
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: Anymore across the board, I mean all of these networks

659
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,479
Speaker 2: and that and that is important to point out too,

660
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 2: is like Fox obviously is a larger audience, partly because

661
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 2: conservatives don't feel like they have representation in other mainstream places.

662
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 4: So it was like, Okay, this will be a.

663
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: Magnet for all conservatives, whereas liberals feel like they've got

664
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: all kinds of places where they can go and get

665
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: their News.

666
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: Well, and a lot of duns watch Fox too because

667
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: they put Buddha Judge on, Like they have a higher

668
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: proportion of Democrats watching them, and that any of the

669
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: other networks have Republicans watching them.

670
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: Yeah so, but all of these networks are facing at decline. Yeah,

671
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: like all of them are on very stages of this

672
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 2: same level of decay. But MSNBC, it's going to be

673
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: interesting to see what happens and if they're able to

674
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: hold on at all. But they are not going to

675
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: be the force that they were previously, and that to

676
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: me is a really really positive actual development. All right,

677
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 2: let's go ahead and talk some about various liberal coping mechanisms.

678
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: So this was hilarious. Jank Euger went on Piers Morgan. Actually,

679
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: my heavy Kyle was on there as well during this show,

680
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: but married.

681
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 4: Really at my wedding la.

682
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: Anyway, Jank went on and had a heated exchange with

683
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: Alan Lichtman, famous for his keys which did not turn

684
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: out to be accurate in this particular election, and the uh,

685
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: the result is pretty hilarious. So let's take aism look.

686
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 12: I debated Professor Lickman before I told him his theories

687
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 12: about the keys were absurd.

688
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 10: I was right. He was wrong. I said he'd lose

689
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 10: his keys.

690
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 13: Wrong, and that's a cheap shot. And I won't stand

691
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 13: for who won should not be watched me?

692
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 14: Who want to make.

693
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 13: You make denial? I read your own followers comments and

694
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 13: they all trashed you, every one of them, and supported me.

695
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 13: Right with your personal find out again, make whatever point

696
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 13: you want it, don't make it.

697
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 10: You don't know anything. You don't know. You attacked me personally,

698
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 10: so deluded. I've only been a profession I've never been

699
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 10: able to finish.

700
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 13: How many books have you published?

701
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 5: Then?

702
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 13: No, because you're personally attacking me again, Say whatever you want,

703
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 13: but I'm not brother. You got it wrong, you strously

704
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 13: and stupidly wrong. So okay, all right, Can I just

705
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 13: finish your goddamn stupid ever on this show? No, not

706
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 13: if you're personally admitted I was wrong. I don't need

707
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 13: you to call me stupid.

708
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 5: Okay you.

709
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 13: Wanted, Hey, Alan, you deserve a tall glass of shut

710
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 13: up juice?

711
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 14: So can you just shut up for a second and

712
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 14: let someone who knows.

713
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: When they're doing right?

714
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 13: So I will not sit here and sell for personal

715
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 13: attacks for blasphemy against me.

716
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 2: You don't need to do that.

717
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 5: You don't blast me against Jesus Christ lose her.

718
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: So, you know, incredible stuff there. I personally love the

719
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 2: Alan Lichtman like arc.

720
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 4: I've enjoyed it very much.

721
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: And jenk and I don't know if you had seen this,

722
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: but before the election, actually back of Biden was still

723
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: in the race because even then Lickman claimed his keys said.

724
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 4: That Biden would win.

725
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: Incredible and he and Jank had a big debate about it,

726
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: and Jank would be like, okay, well, you know, he

727
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 2: would offer some preposterous example like let's say the person

728
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 2: like has a heart attack and is incapacitated and like

729
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 2: wheelchair bound. That's not going to be reflected in your keys,

730
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 2: So how can that make any sense? And he's like, oh,

731
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: the keys just you know, it still works out. So anyway, oh,

732
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 2: the keys always know it is true. Like in this election,

733
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 2: almost all of the people who had been at all

734
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 2: reliable in the past, like all of them got a

735
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 2: rite sales or is now retired, which we didn't talk about.

736
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 2: Who put out the Iowa poll that had Comelon winning

737
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: by three and would she end up in that state

738
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: loser by thirteen? Yeah, So you know, just a little

739
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 2: sixteen point miss.

740
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: But there was a lot of stuff like that going on.

741
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: There was so Ralston, you know in Nevada has had

742
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 2: never been wrong at the presidential level, and he got

743
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 2: it wrong. Now, in fairness, like that race ended up

744
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: being very close in the state of Nevada, so he

745
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 2: wasn't that far off, and he did say that it

746
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 2: would be really close. But still this was someone that

747
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: like you know, had a perfect track record. Lichtman for

748
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: all of his whatever he called Trump in twenty sixteen,

749
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 2: he was one of the only people that.

750
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: Did so bold move.

751
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you know, now going forward, like they've all

752
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 2: been wiped off the map there, you know, like all

753
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 2: anything that had been predictive in the past has now

754
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 2: been completely cleared out. And I saw this was interesting

755
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: to me, the polymarket whale, you know, who bet so

756
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: much money on Trump that it like moved the whole

757
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: average odds or whatever. He said that what he had

758
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 2: looked at and I think commissioned his own polling of

759
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 2: not what people said they were going to do, but

760
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: what they.

761
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 4: Thought their neighbors were going to do.

762
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 2: Yes, And I thought that was really fascinating approach. I mean,

763
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: obviously he ended up getting it right and making a

764
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,439
Speaker 2: lot of money, yeah, because of it. But I thought

765
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 2: that was an interesting way of getting it. Like, you know,

766
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: if I'm not able to get a representative sample of

767
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: people who are Trump supporters or I don't really believe

768
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: in the shy Trump supporter theory anymore. I think it's

769
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 2: more just you can't really get the people on the phone.

770
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 2: If people have an accurate sense of what their neighbors

771
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 2: are going to do, maybe that ends up helping you

772
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: understand what's going on. And they're better than traditional polling methods.

773
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: I actually started asking that question when I was talking

774
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: to voters this cycle, like do you think all of

775
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: your friends are doing this? Because it's that to me

776
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 1: back in twenty sixteen, if people have been asking that question,

777
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: probably would have been more predictive.

778
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. So anyway, that'll be

779
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 2: something to look at going forward as we try to

780
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: make sense of the world. This one I had to

781
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,959
Speaker 2: I just had to get in here. So this woman

782
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: is a polster and has been at times an advisor

783
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 2: to the DNC. Rachel BETAKOFVRA. I don't know if you've

784
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 2: seen her. She's a big like resistance liberal figure. She's

785
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 2: kind of losing her mind online right now, and we

786
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: can put this up on the screen. So Wally Shahid,

787
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 2: who was involved with the Uncommitted movement, which ultimately you'll recall,

788
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 2: like you know, Wally and others they backed Kamala, one

789
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: of people like we're very clear eyed about the threat

790
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 2: of Trump and all those things. She tweets him and says,

791
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 2: I probably won't be able to stop the shod in

792
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 2: Florida when Shawhead gets deported FAFO, which is f around

793
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 2: and find out so this supposed like liberal, you know,

794
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 2: humanitarian type figure who was opposed presumably to the Trump

795
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: mass deportation policies the second that things don't work out

796
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 2: her way. First of all, rather than ever blaming the

797
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: Democratic Party for any fault on their part, she singles

798
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 2: out this Muslim man and is excited, expressing her glee

799
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 2: that he could be deported under a Trump administration. And

800
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: she doesn't stop there either, Emily, So let's put this

801
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: up on the screen. This one was to me in.

802
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 4: A way even more wild.

803
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: So she says, here's a full list of people I'll

804
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: be shot in freuding over when the trump check comes toe.

805
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 2: By the way, I saw someone on Twitter say it

806
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 2: was like appropriate that she resorted to German anyway, the

807
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: climate nuts who attack cultural artifacts, hut down traffic, the

808
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: pro hamas people, working class people who just voted themselves

809
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: back to pedantry, Blacks for Trump, McConnell R's latinos for ours,

810
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 2: women for ours? What am I missing? And to me,

811
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: it's so noteworthy here that, of course the demographic group

812
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: first of all, like doing this whole like demographic slicing.

813
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 2: I obviously I think is girls. Put that aside. But

814
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 2: the demographic grip that actually voted for Trump the most

815
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: was white men, and somehow they.

816
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 4: Escape her ire.

817
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: It's just these various like minority demographics that didn't obey

818
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: her commands and the way she thought they were supposed

819
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: to act.

820
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: In the world, voted themselves back to peasantry.

821
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 2: They're the ones that she's excited to be for them

822
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 2: to be deported and you know, put back into peasantry

823
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: and sent to camps or whatever. And it's like, lady,

824
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 2: how are you different from the people you claim to oppose?

825
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: Like you are cheerleading the ugliest possible imaginable things here

826
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 2: and doing it publicly and apparently unrepentantly. Now, producer Griffin says,

827
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 2: she's now deleted these tweets. Incredible, like days later, has

828
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 2: now deleted the tweets. But she's going she's gone through it.

829
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 2: It seems she's going through it.

830
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: I'm reading her author bio on the random House website

831
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: and she's It says she worked with Democratic Party candidates

832
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: and organizations to implement negative partisanship strategy in the twenty

833
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: twenty two midterms. So obviously Crystal she knows exactly what

834
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: she's talking about. It's funny because she's a political scientist

835
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: like she I believe that she's actually a professor.

836
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's a Virginian. I've met her before.

837
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: Amazing that this is the science of politics, is just

838
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: telling people that they voted themselves back to peasantry because

839
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: you are an academic and you know better than these

840
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: voters who thought about this decision and made up their

841
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: own minds, because they are humans with equal worth and

842
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: dignity to you, Rachel.

843
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 2: And that's I mean, it's the voter blaming. And it's

844
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 2: also just like you know, if you oppose a policy

845
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: that I consider to be cruel and inhumane. It's not

846
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 2: supposed to be subject to like what that person's political

847
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 2: views and voting patterns happen to be. Like, those are

848
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: supposed to be universal values that you hold. And Rachel

849
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: is not the only one that I've seen out there

850
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: doing this, but she's one of the most prominent ones

851
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 2: to just be out and out like I can't wait

852
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 2: for you to get to be to be deported, which

853
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 2: is just outrageously disgusting. So anyway, those are some of

854
00:41:58,520 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 2: the things that are going on over in the.

855
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: Liberal everything's going well. And actually, Crystal, what we're going

856
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: to talk about is some of the things that are

857
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 1: going on in the Republican world. Right now, let's pivot

858
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: to B one. We can put B one up on

859
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,399
Speaker 1: the screen because votes are still being counted, and Dave

860
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: Wasserman noted on ACCE yesterday he's a new cook political

861
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: Over one hundred and fifty four million votes now counted,

862
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: Trump's popular vote lead is down to one point sixty

863
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: five percent. Trump is, of course, claiming that his popular

864
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: vote margin is a mandate and his electoral college margin

865
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: combined is a mandate for him and his administration as

866
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: they prepare to come into office in January, Crystal, and

867
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: you know, listen, he won. Most people didn't expect him

868
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: to win. Many people didn't expect him to win. He

869
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 1: still has a popular vote margin. He was successful in

870
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: the battleground states. I do think, as much as the

871
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: left was wrong about this election, that the right finds

872
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: itself in a very precarious position as well, because almost

873
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: fifty percent of the country voted for Kamala Harris, who

874
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 1: was a terrible, truly terrible candidate. I think Alan Lickman

875
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: not entirely wrong that some giant chunk of the country

876
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: would have voted for Joe Biden because they are so

877
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: either they're so genuinely afraid of Donald Trump or they

878
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: hate Donald Trump so much. This is not like the

879
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: vibe shift. I think a lot of people are now

880
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: seeing it as it's significant. There's no doubt about it.

881
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: I don't think Donald Trump is wrong at all to

882
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: be taking a victory lap. I do think Republicans should

883
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: realize that it isn't as though the country has suddenly

884
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: embraced Donald Trump warmly and brought him in and said

885
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: we love you, Grandpa, like please guide us to a

886
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: better future.

887
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: Well, and in some ways The trouble is even more

888
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: clear down ballot because in most of the swing state

889
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 2: Senate races they lost. I mean, they were able to

890
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: very narrowly pick up Pennsylvania and then obviously they won Montana,

891
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 2: where actually Dohn Tuster outperformed more than almost any other Democrat.

892
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 2: I think he outperform Kamala by thirteen points. But in

893
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 2: Montana that's odd enough. They picked up West Virginia their

894
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 2: obvious one, but when you're talking about you know, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada,

895
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: they weren't able to pull it off. And so, you know,

896
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: Trump seems to be a bit of a unique figure.

897
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 2: You had huge numbers of voters who voted only for

898
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: Trump and then just left the rest of the ballot bank.

899
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 2: Which was a phenomenon that Democrats saw with Obama, which

900
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: ended up being a little bit of a canary in

901
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 2: the coal mine for their own parties problems because Obama famously,

902
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 2: while he's very good at getting himself re elected, he

903
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 2: was very poor at expanding the Democratic Party. In fact,

904
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party was really destroyed in rural areas under

905
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: the Obama administration. They end up you know, losing the House,

906
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 2: losing the Senate and then ultimately handing the presidency over

907
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 2: to Donald Trump. So that was a warning sign for

908
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 2: them that like, Okay, you've got this one figure that

909
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 2: can really drive up turnout, and people, you know, give

910
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 2: him this sort of like unique and special status that

911
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily translate to the rest of the party. So

912
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 2: the other thing that I think, Emily is that while

913
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: Trump was saying a lot of you know, the more

914
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 2: extreme in my view, things that he's going to do

915
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: in the administration, that the R and C they're holding

916
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 2: up signs the same mass deportation now and certainly you know,

917
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: characters like Matt Gates and RFK Junior and whatever, like,

918
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: no one would be surprised that they're in this orbit, etc.

919
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: I also think and Trump said things like i will

920
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 2: be your retribution. I'm going to suspend the Constitution. I'll

921
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 2: be a dictator on day one. So it's not like

922
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: he wasn't saying these things. But I know among a

923
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 2: lot of Wall Street people, I think among a lot

924
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 2: of people in general, they felt like, well, it's just

925
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: Trump and he doesn't really mean these things, because you know,

926
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 2: we saw him in action before and he didn't do

927
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 2: like the craziest things that he claimed he was going

928
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: to do, so they were able to the fact that

929
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: he's like, really dishonest and just makes a lot of

930
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 2: stuff up all the time. Ended up being a benefit

931
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 2: because they could pick and choose which parts of what

932
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 2: he was saying they liked and the parts that they

933
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: didn't like because he's not serious about that peace and now,

934
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 2: at least in the early phases of the administration, it

935
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 2: is very much my sense that he was serious about

936
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 2: all the things that he was saying, including you know,

937
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about Elon and Vivek. I know

938
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 2: it's been sort of floated that this is like a

939
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 2: make work project that they're put on but to massively

940
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 2: slash government spending and social safety net programs and all

941
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 2: of these things. I don't think that's really true, because

942
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 2: the administration also appears to be looking at what powers

943
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 2: they have to unilaterally make these sorts of cuts without Congress.

944
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 2: So I think they're serious about that. Our friend Jeff

945
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 2: Stein has done a lot of reporting on that. He

946
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 2: also we had him on early this earlier this week

947
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 2: to talk about they're also looking at how they can

948
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 2: use you know, existing code and doesn't require Congress to

949
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,760
Speaker 2: implement a massive increase in tariffs potentially across the board.

950
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 2: So I think he's serious about that too. And you know,

951
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: that's very likely to lead to inflation, a lot of

952
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 2: like economic chaos in terms of the markets and all

953
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: those sorts of things. So I think, you know, those

954
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: things should be taken seriously. And we've certainly seen what

955
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 2: the personnel choices with regard to immigration that you know,

956
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 2: the mass deportation plans, Trump reiterating that he wants to

957
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 2: use the military and declare a national emergency to engage

958
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 2: in mass deportation. Like I think that was that was

959
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 2: true as well. So the Trump people seem to have

960
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 2: had this feeling that like and this mandate for a

961
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 2: truly like revolutionary type government like Reagan in eighty four.

962
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 2: And I think there's some part of the populace that

963
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 2: voted for that and wants to see that. And I

964
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 2: think there's some part that was just like, you know,

965
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,800
Speaker 2: like prices were lower and let and there were fewer

966
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 2: wars under the Trump administration. I'd like to get back

967
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,439
Speaker 2: to that, and didn't actually sign up for like Matt

968
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 2: Gates and all of like the whole program that is

969
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: now being put into place, or.

970
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: They were willing to risk that in order to prevent

971
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,919
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris from becoming president, which is interesting. It doesn't

972
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: necessarily mean they support it, though, it means that they

973
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: might vote it out four years later or in the midterms.

974
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, I think the election was really close.

975
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: The popular result, the popular vote continues to get smaller

976
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 1: and smaller. I think it's very significant that Donald Trump

977
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: won the popular vote, especially after all of the law

978
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: fair I think it's very significant after that he won

979
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: the popular vote after January sixth, like all of these

980
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: things do absolutely kunt like it's not. I think there

981
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: is a vibe shift of foot. There is like a

982
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: cultural shift of foot. I don't think that this is

983
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 1: obviously mathematically plainly, this is not a Ronald Reagan nineteen

984
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: eighty four type of mandate. And if you look at

985
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: Florida in particular, Florida had two very interesting amendments that

986
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: voters were deciding, Amendment three and Amendment four. They had

987
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: to get to the sixty percent threshold right in order

988
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: to pass. So this is weed and abortion. Enshrining these

989
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: into the constitution of the state and recreational weed. And

990
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: what's really interesting about this is most of the headlines

991
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: have been, Okay, these amendments failed, well, they failed barely

992
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: so in a state where you had these pretty dramatic

993
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: shifts among different demographics towards Trump, Trump handily, Republicans are

994
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: doing great, Rick Scott wins. All of that happens, you

995
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 1: also almost have voters. I mean it was really really

996
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: close on abortion and shining it into constitution.

997
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 5: Like that.

998
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was exactly and the same thing with Weed.

999
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: And think I posted this a couple of weeks ago,

1000
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: I said, Kamala Harris a terrible candidate when forty seven

1001
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: percent of the popular vote. Most American sport abortion, access,

1002
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: gate marriage, legal immigration, tax hikes on corporations in the rich,

1003
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: a robust social safety net, et cetera. Trump understood that

1004
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: better than most of the Republican Party and neutralized some

1005
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: of the vulnerabilities. But those vulnerabilities are still there, and

1006
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: Democrats have a lot to work with if they can rebrand.

1007
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,439
Speaker 1: It's obviously a very very big if.

1008
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 4: That's a big if, ye.

1009
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: But Republicans like enjoy their victory. Sure, but man, this

1010
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: is I mean, the long term future of the Republican

1011
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: party isn't as clear cut after Trump as I think

1012
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: some people are interpreting it round.

1013
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 2: There's still a lot of question marks. I mean, here's

1014
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 2: another one. I mentioned this in my monologue. So in

1015
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 2: New York they passed a constitutional amendment that they call

1016
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 2: it equal Rights Amendment includes like protections for people based

1017
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 2: on their pregnancy status, so it's meant to protect people

1018
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 2: based on abortion, but they also add in their gender identity.

1019
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 2: And the opponents to this constitutional amendment ran ads saying,

1020
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 2: this is going to codify into the constitution a right

1021
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 2: for transgender girls to play in girl sports leagues, and

1022
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 2: it's going to codify a right for undocumented immigrants to

1023
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: get drivers' licenses. Like they you know, they did the

1024
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 2: whole list of like the you know, conservative like the

1025
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 2: scariest things imaginable that can happen. I thought the trans

1026
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 2: piece was especially important. It was approved overwhelmingly. It was

1027
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 2: you know, not even close, so it was like, you know,

1028
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 2: two thirds to one third effectively, even with that sort

1029
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 2: of messaging being run. And at the same time, New

1030
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: York is the state in the country that moved the

1031
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 2: most to Trump, eleven and a half points that it

1032
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 2: shifted towards Trump. So you know, I just would like,

1033
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 2: it's easy to project on the population that, Okay, well

1034
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 2: they must have wanted like Matt Gates's ag then if

1035
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 2: they voted for Trump, and they must have wanted Vivek

1036
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 2: to come in and slash two trillion dollars from the

1037
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 2: budget and elon and like get rid of you know,

1038
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 2: every social safety net program. You can imagine, because that's

1039
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 2: what we were broadcasting, we were going to do in advance.

1040
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 2: But I don't like, I don't think it's accurate to imagine.

1041
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 2: And if there had been a few different decisions made

1042
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,879
Speaker 2: on the Democratic side, you can easily imagine them being

1043
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 2: able to win. And then the projection as, oh, this

1044
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 2: is this massive rejection of trump Ism whatever. You know,

1045
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 2: it's still very much a fifty to fifty country. So

1046
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 2: what I would say is for the Democratic Party, the

1047
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 2: trends are death right. If that Latino realignment continues to happen,

1048
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,240
Speaker 2: if the working class realignment continues to happen, then they're

1049
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 2: in like permanent minority status territory. But those trends are

1050
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 2: far from settled at this point exactly. And Donald Trump

1051
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,280
Speaker 2: is truly this sort of like uniquely charismatic political figure

1052
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 2: that you know, could be like Obama, where Obama is

1053
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 2: able to put together this coalition that actually included a

1054
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: lot of white working class voters that other Democrats are

1055
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 2: just not ever able to put back together again, that's

1056
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 2: also a future possibility. So a couple of the things

1057
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 2: we wanted to share with you guys, so we could

1058
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 2: put B two up on the screen. This is I

1059
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 2: want to take a note here. So this is the

1060
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 2: approval ratings for these various Trump nominees after people have

1061
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 2: been read some like negative things about them.

1062
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 1: Oh, you're right, it's a progressive firm, right.

1063
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: It's a progressive firm. And this is like, okay, once

1064
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 2: we tell you a little bit about RFK Junior, how

1065
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: do you feel about them now? But all of these

1066
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 2: attacks against these people, like they are very salient in

1067
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 2: the media right now, and so it's not crazy to

1068
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 2: imagine that people are taking in some of the negative

1069
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 2: commentary about each of these individuals and they've got all

1070
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 2: of them underwater. RFK Junior minus eight, Lee Zelden, who's

1071
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 2: been put up for EPA minus fifteen, Chelsea Gabbard minus seventeen,

1072
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: Hegseth minus nineteen and no surprise, Gates coming in the

1073
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 2: worst here at minus twenty eight. So, you know, not

1074
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 2: exactly like a clear man for any of these appointments.

1075
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 2: And then this was interesting to me as well, Emily,

1076
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 2: So as we talked about on the show earlier this week,

1077
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 2: as I talked about with Sager and with Shelby Talcott,

1078
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 2: Trump has affirmed his intention to use the military to

1079
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 2: help facilitate mass deportations, which, you know, armed military officers

1080
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 2: in cities going door to door into workplaces or whatever.

1081
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 2: You know, that's quite an image and not something that

1082
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 2: we've done before here, at least not in recent times

1083
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 2: in this country's history. And Rand Paul has come out

1084
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,479
Speaker 2: and said that he's very much opposed to that. Let's

1085
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 2: to listen to that.

1086
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 15: I think what I would do if I were in

1087
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 15: charge of the immigration situation, would to be the first to.

1088
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 5: Go after those who have committed crimes.

1089
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 15: You know, the big news right before the election was

1090
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 15: that there were fifteen thousand people in our country who

1091
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 15: have committed murder. There are about thirteen thousand that have

1092
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 15: committed sex crimes, violent sex crimes.

1093
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 5: That's twenty eight thousand people.

1094
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 15: Why don't we start with that twenty eight thousand, why

1095
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 15: don't we put out at all points bulletin and when

1096
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 15: we have them removed, I think we.

1097
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 5: Start there will be fine.

1098
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 15: I'm not in favor of sending the army in uniforms

1099
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 15: into our.

1100
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 5: Cities to collect people.

1101
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 15: I think it's a terrible image and that's not what

1102
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 15: we use our military for.

1103
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 5: We never have, and it's actually been.

1104
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 15: Illegal for over one hundred years to bring the army

1105
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 15: into our cities. Army and our military are trained to

1106
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 15: shoot the enemy. They're not trained to get a warrant

1107
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 15: to do what they're doing. The police have a difficult job,

1108
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 15: but the people removing people from our country need to

1109
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 15: be a police enforcement domestic agency.

1110
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:32,360
Speaker 5: Not the military.

1111
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 15: As I'm all for remain in Mexico, I will not

1112
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 15: support an emergency to put the army into our cities.

1113
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 5: I think that's a huge mistake.

1114
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 2: What did you make of that from Rin Paul? I

1115
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:45,879
Speaker 2: thought it was, you know, I mean, at this point,

1116
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 2: with Trump with such a lock in the Republican Party,

1117
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 2: for him to remain principled in this regard I thought

1118
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 2: was really not worthy.

1119
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I agree with that, and libertarians obviously

1120
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 1: tend to be more pro immigration and even pro like

1121
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: just open borders in general, like explicitly borders. There should

1122
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: not be borders. And Rand Paul saying he wants to

1123
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: combine remain in Mexico with this opposition to having the

1124
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 1: military go rounding up undocumented immigrants is really interesting. And

1125
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: something that's very interesting about immigration in particular is polsters

1126
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: use a stupid word, their most static in terms of

1127
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 1: describing public opinion on immigration, which means we all remember

1128
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: during the Trump administration, one of the reasons Alexandria A.

1129
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,760
Speaker 1: Kasio Cortez was going to the border fence and weeping

1130
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: is that public opinion had shifted throughout the course of

1131
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 1: the Trump administration, like people got steadily more pro immigrant

1132
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: because they were opposed to, at least the version of

1133
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:40,359
Speaker 1: what Donald Trump was doing that the media was telling.

1134
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: There was funny business going on there that people in

1135
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: the press were reporting that what Donald Trump did had

1136
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,320
Speaker 1: not happened under the Obama administration, or they were acting

1137
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: like it hadn't happened under the Obama administration. So you

1138
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 1: have to take that with a little bit of a

1139
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: grain of salt. But Rand Paul just said, it's a

1140
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: terrible image, like he was talking about in some ways

1141
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: the public relations of having the military. I think he's

1142
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 1: a poster on the substance too. The public relations of

1143
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: it is clearly clearly going to be more dangerous than

1144
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 1: I think some people in hardcore Trump circles realize that

1145
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: said mass deportations actually pull well, which is surprising given

1146
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: how negative the media coverage of something like a mass deportations.

1147
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 1: I think it speaks to some people just like total

1148
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: discussed with what they're told is okay. So yeah, mass deportations.

1149
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 1: You're asking me about that, of course, like you're saying

1150
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be in support of this, Like I'm in

1151
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: support of it because they've been told over and over

1152
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 1: again this isn't a problem. You're not allowed to care

1153
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 1: about it. So I feel like that shows up in

1154
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: the polling when you actually see it done, if you're

1155
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: actually using the military to do it instead of we

1156
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: already have, by the way, militarized immigration forces, we have ICE,

1157
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: we have CBB, like this is these agencies exist. So

1158
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Grandpaul is offering a very useful

1159
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,320
Speaker 1: dose of caution to the Trump administration. The incoming Trump administration.

1160
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's exactly right, because I mean, we

1161
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 2: all remember those images from the first Trump administration of

1162
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 2: children who are crying and being you know, sort of

1163
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 2: mocked by border patrol agents, and it was truly horrifying.

1164
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 2: Like I think people were really shocked and horrified by that.

1165
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 2: And to your point, the support for increasing immigration into

1166
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 2: the country reached like modern heights in opposition to that.

1167
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 2: But the other important thing you had then that was

1168
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 2: a distinction is that you had a Democratic party that

1169
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 2: was unified against that view of immigrants and against the

1170
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 2: Trump total immigration policy, and.

1171
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: You did well in the midterms.

1172
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 2: That's right, and Biden won on a very like pro

1173
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 2: immigrant and oppositional to the Trump immigration policy. That was

1174
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 2: the message that he ran on. You guys will remember

1175
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty primary and them speaking their high school

1176
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 2: Spanish or whatever. And so you had this unified democratic

1177
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 2: critique that you don't have anymore. And I've been saying

1178
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 2: the whole time that I thought it was a mistake

1179
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 2: the way that the Biden Harris people tried to handle

1180
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 2: us of being like, you know what, we're going to

1181
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 2: do the hawkish border thing too, We're going to dare

1182
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 2: Republicans to pass it, and then Kama is going around

1183
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 2: talking about like how basically she's the one who's tougher

1184
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 2: on the border.

1185
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 4: No one is going to believe that.

1186
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 2: But you will help to foment more like right word

1187
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 2: shift in terms of people's views on immigration, because if

1188
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 2: you a lot of people who are partisans just like

1189
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 2: get their cues from the party, and if you have

1190
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 2: both major parties like basically immigrants are bad and they

1191
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 2: should all just be shipped down on mass and know,

1192
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 2: we shouldn't have a pathway to citizenship, Yeah, the public

1193
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 2: is going to shift to the rights of I do

1194
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: want to say though, that even in that context, I

1195
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 2: just was looking at some polling. Immigration is one of

1196
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 2: those subjects in particular where it depends so much on

1197
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 2: how you ask the question, because people continue to have

1198
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 2: very complex views on the topic where they continue to

1199
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 2: feel immigrants are you know, a net positive for the

1200
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 2: country and our core part of like American identity, and

1201
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 2: you know, there continues to be significant support for things

1202
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 2: like a pathway to sit citizenship. So even on this issue,

1203
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 2: where I'm not going to deny that there's been a

1204
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 2: right word shift, I certainly think there has been a

1205
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 2: right word shift that which has to do with the

1206
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 2: Democratic Party position, also does have to do with the

1207
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 2: fact that there has been an increase in immigrant crossings

1208
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:17,479
Speaker 2: under the Biden administration. But even there, it's not as

1209
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 2: clear cut as it is sometimes portrayed and depends a

1210
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 2: lot on how things are presented. And yeah, people may

1211
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 2: you know, when you just say, like do you want

1212
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 2: to deport people, that's very you don't actually have to

1213
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 2: see those human beings and what that looks like or

1214
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 2: military in your city, in the workplace, whatever, and what

1215
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 2: that looks like, and that you know, can create a

1216
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 2: very different sense around the policy totally.

1217
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1218
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people who are very pro

1219
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 1: immigration voted for Donald Trump because they're also very pro

1220
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: quote unquote law and order. Like people see those two

1221
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: things as not being mutually exclusive. That's why you're seeing

1222
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 1: him making gains, for example, with Hispanic voters, because people

1223
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: can hold two of those complicated beings in their head

1224
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: at the same time. So yeah, I mean, I think

1225
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: the Biden administration's policy was really worst of all worlds,

1226
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: where they know they swung the pendulum way too far

1227
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: in one direction by their like sort of bureaucratic tweaking

1228
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: and asylum policy and all of that, But then on

1229
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: the other hand, tried to lie about it, you know

1230
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: what I mean, So like, instead of just saying we're

1231
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: doing this because people are fleeing gang violence or trafficking

1232
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: or whatever, instead of just owning it and saying, that's

1233
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: exactly why these you know, policies that we put in

1234
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: place immediately after taking office, a lot of bureaucratic administrative

1235
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: decisions that they made in the first one hundred days.

1236
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: Instead of owning it and saying what they were doing,

1237
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: they like lied about it, acted like it wasn't happening,

1238
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: and still claimed that they were being tough on the

1239
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: border and cracking down on the way. It was like,

1240
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: what are you? It's the worst of both possible worlds.

1241
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 1: And I think that's part of why public opinion where

1242
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: it was during the Trump years. It swung so far

1243
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 1: because Biden just had probably the worst possible policy.

1244
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 2: Ryan also always points out that they also continued like

1245
01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 2: the push, like the sanctions regimes that helped them push

1246
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 2: people and you know, the incredible chaos in Haiti that

1247
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 2: we are always complicit in. The sanctions on Cuba, sanctions

1248
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 2: on Venezuela, like this is a major part of the

1249
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 2: migrant crisis as well. So let me just get to

1250
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 2: these next pieces because this is important as well. We

1251
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 2: have an op ed from Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswami

1252
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 2: in the Wall Street Journal indicating some of their plans

1253
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 2: for what they want to do with this Department of

1254
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 2: Government Efficiency. Jeff Stein was tweeting about this. We can

1255
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 2: put this up on the screen some of the details.

1256
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 2: They say they think that SCOTIS could open the door

1257
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 2: to unilateral spending cuts, meaning that they wouldn't have to

1258
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 2: go through Congress based on what they say is the

1259
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 2: unconstitutionality of the nineteen seventy four budget law. He says

1260
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,919
Speaker 2: that could be an absolutely massive pivotal fight. I think

1261
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 2: that is correct, And you know, the basic idea here

1262
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 2: is that they argue, yes, Congress has to authorize spending,

1263
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 2: but you're not then required to spend it. So if

1264
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 2: the executive wants to come in and basically say, like

1265
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 2: we're going to slash all of these agencies and social

1266
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 2: safety net programs, like, we can unilaterally do that because

1267
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 2: we aren't obligated to actually spend the funds that Congress

1268
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 2: has authorized and appropriated. Let's put the next piece up

1269
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 2: on the screen. Also from Jeff summarizing this op ed,

1270
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 2: so he says, they gave us our first DOGE roadmap.

1271
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 2: As I understand the key steps. Number one put DOGE

1272
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 2: people at each US agency, then use advanced technology potentially

1273
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 2: AI to have them identify thousands of regulations to cut

1274
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 2: across government. Number two, give Trump a list of thousands

1275
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 2: of regulations to cut and have him approve their elimination.

1276
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 2: Number three identify the minimum number of employees necessary to

1277
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 2: maintain each agency's core function, which should be lower. Ones

1278
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 2: two is complete. For example, Musk oversaw about eighty percent

1279
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 2: reduction in x headcount. Number four cut the federal employees.

1280
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 2: Number five cut programs where Congress's specific spending authorization has lapsed.

1281
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 2: That includes things like VA health Care, NASA, and many

1282
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 2: anti poverty programs. Number six approve a temporary suspension of

1283
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 2: payments amid large scale audits. Don't really know what that means.

1284
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 2: Number seven assert POTUS authority to stop spending with out

1285
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 2: congressional approval by challenging that budget law we were talking

1286
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 2: about before. All seems to be without Congress. And then

1287
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 2: go and fight whatever you need to in the courts.

1288
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 2: And this is another thing where I think when people

1289
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 2: see this, a lot of people's natural instinct will be like, Okay,

1290
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 2: that sounds great, like government efficiency, like musk is you know. Personally,

1291
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 2: I think must like the idea of having the richest

1292
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 2: man in the world having who is, by the way,

1293
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 2: the I think largest Pentagon contractor are one of the

1294
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 2: largest Pentagon contractors in charge of just like, hey, do

1295
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 2: what you want, and by the way, has a bunch

1296
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 2: of legal issues with the federal government because of labor

1297
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 2: alleged labor violations and environmental violations and all kinds of

1298
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 2: other things. Now he gets to go in and be

1299
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 2: like those regulations that I was running foul of, no problem.

1300
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 2: Let me make sure I'm getting my taxpayer goodies are

1301
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:01,919
Speaker 2: coming to me. But my competitors or maybe I down

1302
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 2: like you know, and just the general thrust of if

1303
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 2: you are a plutocrat, the weaker the government is, the

1304
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 2: better it is for you, because that's the only entity

1305
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 2: that can really check you and your impulses and the

1306
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 2: things that you want to do as the self appointed

1307
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 2: master of the universe.

1308
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:18,479
Speaker 4: That's my view.

1309
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 2: But I think a lot of people look at this

1310
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 2: and like government efficiency sounds good, yep. But again, like

1311
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 2: with the deportation, then when it's like that means that

1312
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 2: Social Security is getting cut, or payments aren't going out,

1313
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 2: or via healthcare stops, or you know, various other important

1314
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 2: social safety net programs, or school funding gets cut, whatever

1315
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 2: it is. When you actually get down to the specifics

1316
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 2: of what this looks like, it's another thing. Because the

1317
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 2: budget is basically defense, which you know, Musk is going

1318
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 2: to continue to get his contracts, so I'm and Trump

1319
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 2: has always increased the defense budget. I would be shocked

1320
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 2: if he did any different this administration. So it's defense,

1321
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 2: and then if you're not cutting defense, then everyth else

1322
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 2: is basically like Social Security and medicare. The other items

1323
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 2: in the budget are comparatively like, relatively trivial, So if

1324
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 2: you're making massive cuts, you are almost inherently cutting those

1325
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 2: programs which are extremely popular and extremely important to the public.

1326
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: The political viability of doing this was experienced by the

1327
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 1: Republican Party when Donald Trump was first elected, and they

1328
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 1: had campaigned for nearly a decade on repeal and replace Obamacare,

1329
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: repeal and replace, repeal and replace and then when the

1330
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: reality hit them, and senators including John McCain, who said

1331
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 1: he would repeal and replace, ultimately voted down the legislation

1332
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: that had been I mean, if there was a repeal

1333
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 1: and replace bill that could be as friendly to most

1334
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: of the party as possible, it's what they were ultimately

1335
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: voting on. Lost by one vote, and it's because Republicans

1336
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:51,919
Speaker 1: got really spooked by the reality of how voters would

1337
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: react when things changed. Would they be able to actually

1338
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 1: implement a change that was better than what they'd been

1339
01:05:58,120 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: saying they were going to repeal and replace? Does the

1340
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: replace part of that? You can repeal regulations and I

1341
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 1: think a lot obviously I support a lot of that,

1342
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: but how do voters react to it? It's a pretty

1343
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: pretty serious question that nineteen seventy four budget law in

1344
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 1: policy circles that has just electrified the nerds like going

1345
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 1: crazy over what you actually because it's really consequential. Yeah,

1346
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 1: the president can just I mean, if they operate on that,

1347
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 1: and I'm sure it would be a lawsuit no matter what.

1348
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: But if they start operating on that principle, there's so

1349
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: much that they can do. And that's partially because there's

1350
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 1: so much administrative bloat. I mean, that is definitely part

1351
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 1: of it. But at the same time, the way that

1352
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: some of this happens, you know, they're going to have

1353
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: to make sure that there's an off ramp, and that

1354
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 1: is what seems less certain that they want to do

1355
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: that like for some of these programs, that there will

1356
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: actually be a way for people to adjust that isn't

1357
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: shocking and then translates into political losses.

1358
01:06:58,120 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 2: It also comes into conflict, is a good way to

1359
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 2: say to our next piece. It also comes in conflict

1360
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 2: with what Rfk Junior claims he wants to do at AJHS,

1361
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 2: because what he wants to do would actually be to

1362
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 2: implement more regulations and you know, to ban certain substances

1363
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 2: from our foods and things of that nature, and to

1364
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 2: actually increase some of the regulatory state. And you know,

1365
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 2: that cuts not only against what Musk and the Vager

1366
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 2: task with do him, but also cuts completely against what

1367
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 2: the Trump administration did last time around. Emily, you've been

1368
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 2: taking a look at this, Yeah, I.

1369
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 1: Mean, this is incredibly interesting, and we can put this

1370
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 1: Lee Fong piece up on the screen. This is C

1371
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 1: one and Lee sort of did a dive into how

1372
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: lobbyists in the food and drug industry in particular, are

1373
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: reacting to the nomination of Robert F. Kennedy Junior to

1374
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 1: serve as the head of the Health and Human Services Agency,

1375
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 1: which is honestly, if you are OURFK Junior and you

1376
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 1: have spent your career working on these issues, it's a

1377
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 1: fantasy come to life. I mean, this is truly like

1378
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 1: sort of being president. This is truly like the most

1379
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 1: powerful position he could find himself in here. So Lee

1380
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: was looking into the freak out that's happening and the

1381
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 1: effort to mobilize lobbyists starting to talk about advertising on

1382
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: a new media platforms, which is absolutely hilarious, like totally

1383
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan is literally listed in the Fong story like

1384
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 1: you guys want to Bobby for what pepsi on Joe

1385
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 1: Rogan Show.

1386
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 2: But let me say, I mean, we saw with the

1387
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 2: whole ten of Media thing that a bunch of these

1388
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 2: quote unquote independent podcasters are willing to take money from

1389
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:35,599
Speaker 2: whatever and hill for whatever, because they're not really independent media.

1390
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 2: They're you know, outside of the legacy media, but they're

1391
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:43,759
Speaker 2: they'll take the money. Like I think it's a smart

1392
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 2: strategy from these junk food makers like start advertising, but

1393
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 2: some others Yeah, but I mean maybe I don't know,

1394
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 2: but but some others certainly. And yeah, that's the way

1395
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 2: that you buy influence, because if you're getting a giant

1396
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: paycheck from freedo lay or whatever, and then how critical

1397
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 2: are you ultimately going to be? So you know, they

1398
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 2: know that these people can be bought in the same

1399
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:11,519
Speaker 2: way that the mainstream outlets can be bought as well,

1400
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 2: and in a lot of senses, not just I mean,

1401
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 2: it's very clear. The connection is actually more direct because

1402
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:20,959
Speaker 2: if you do work at a CNN or an MSNBC,

1403
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,600
Speaker 2: you're not the one as a host who's talking to

1404
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 2: the advertisers. You're not the one doing the ad reads,

1405
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 2: whereas in many instances in these alternative media spaces, like

1406
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:33,760
Speaker 2: you're talking directly to these corporate sponsors. This is why

1407
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 2: we don't do any of this here, and why it's

1408
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 2: really important that we not do any of this here

1409
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 2: so that there's not even the appearance of potential corruption

1410
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 2: with regard to these you know, food companies or anything

1411
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 2: else that you might be shilling. And then not only

1412
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 2: are you talking directly to them, you're the one doing

1413
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 2: the ad read for whatever it is. So you know,

1414
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 2: I think it is an intelligent influence pedaling strategy and

1415
01:09:57,280 --> 01:09:58,719
Speaker 2: we'll probably see some success.

1416
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I've done some small like adroids for small

1417
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 1: companies and you have to be even that you have

1418
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 1: to be really, really really careful course, because you have

1419
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 1: to like drill down and see like the it's it's

1420
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: especially if you don't have a corporate bureaucratic infrastructure to

1421
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: kind of make some of those legal decisions. You just

1422
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 1: have to be so careful. And a lot of people

1423
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:17,839
Speaker 1: aren't obviously.

1424
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, people will you know, all kinds of things that

1425
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 2: are like do you really stand by this product? Yeah,

1426
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,720
Speaker 2: or some of the financial advice stuff I mean that

1427
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 2: to me, or the supplements or whatever, like you really

1428
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 2: feel confident that this is that this works and it

1429
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 2: does what they say and it doesn't have blowback whatever.

1430
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, in any case, I don't think that this

1431
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 2: is a crazy strategy. I think it will probably be

1432
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:38,919
Speaker 2: pretty effective.

1433
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 1: Now if we put C two up on the screen.

1434
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: This is more from Lee's story about the details on

1435
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: how the industry is trying to disrupt potentially what ourf

1436
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 1: continu to be able to do. So he starts with

1437
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 1: Senate confirmation, and he says they note that as RFK

1438
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: meets with senators, they will discreetly, they will ask discreetly

1439
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: that he trades major MAHA policy items away in or

1440
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 1: or to get fifty votes. So pressure senators to get

1441
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: concessions prematurely, preemptively from Bobby Kennedy Junior in exchange for

1442
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 1: them actually voting him. Through the second part of it,

1443
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 1: we just talked about Joe Rogan and independent podcasts. They

1444
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 1: call for shifting advertising budgets of major snack producers and

1445
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:22,639
Speaker 1: processed foods. Don't just fund legacy media in the Beltwait press. Thirdly,

1446
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 1: they go with appropriations, and they note that congressional voices,

1447
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 1: according to Lee, can block RFK from implementing any of

1448
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:32,480
Speaker 1: his policy goals by freezing funding for the FDA or HHS.

1449
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:35,759
Speaker 1: Similar strategies were used previously to force regulators to count

1450
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 1: frozen pizza as a vegetable ethic. Actual, Yeah, classic, many

1451
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: such cases, as Donald Trump would say, not entirely unusual

1452
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:46,640
Speaker 1: at all, but obviously a very very core part of

1453
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 1: their ability to thwart what Bobby Kennedy Junior wants to

1454
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 1: do if he is confirmed as Secretary of HHS. And

1455
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 1: to your point, Crystal, it's interesting because his agenda is

1456
01:11:55,200 --> 01:12:01,760
Speaker 1: a patchwork of deregulate and hyper regulategulate milk, deregulate all

1457
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 1: of these different like it's not just raw milk. He

1458
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:06,200
Speaker 1: wants to deregulate different types of foods that he thinks

1459
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 1: are overregulated, and some of it is you get this

1460
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: like patchwork. This is the most disgusting part about our system.

1461
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: We were talking about, Elon, this patchwork that we're different.

1462
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 1: Loopholes have been carved out by special interests over time.

1463
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 1: So what we regulate what we don't regulate, especially in

1464
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 1: food and drugs, is so so inconsistent because we've just

1465
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:27,760
Speaker 1: been oh you want this in this bill. Sure, oh

1466
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 1: you want this in this bill, Like just concessions made

1467
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 1: over the course of decades that make absolutely no sense.

1468
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 1: So he wants to do a little extra regulating, a

1469
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,679
Speaker 1: little less regulating, and it's like, where does that drive

1470
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 1: with the Vivec and Elon. I think that's probably the

1471
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: most interesting tension in the entire Trump administration because they're

1472
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 1: all close, Like that's a group of people, Elon, Viveke

1473
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:54,240
Speaker 1: and RFK Junior that have become a serious like that

1474
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 1: would say tightly nit part of the Trump coalition. And

1475
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 1: so I'm pretty curious just to in practice, in practice,

1476
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 1: when Elon and Vivek start making these recommendations to deregulate. Yeah,

1477
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 1: where does RFK junior fault if he's confirmed? And that

1478
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 1: is a very big if.

1479
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think always in government, even putting Elon in

1480
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 2: this cast of characters aside, always in government it's easier

1481
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:20,200
Speaker 2: to sort of tear down than it is to build.

1482
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 2: So I think RFK is much more likely to have

1483
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:28,599
Speaker 2: success in like deregulating raw milk and which okay, whatever, fine,

1484
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 2: And also in you know, he wants to really like

1485
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 2: he wants to really clean house at places like that

1486
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 2: DA and the NIH. And you know, I'm the first

1487
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 2: to be critical of the revolving door and the corruption

1488
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:48,800
Speaker 2: between those agencies and the businesses that they're supposed to regulate.

1489
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 2: But if you want to actually have food and drug

1490
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 2: regulation and you know, be able to go and do

1491
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:58,640
Speaker 2: inspections and these things which are important. Mean, we just

1492
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 2: had this huge lost lifesteria outbreak at Boar's Head and

1493
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 2: Jaddi Coli and McDonald like, it's important that you have

1494
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 2: as regulatory bodies. I think it's much more likely that

1495
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 2: you're going to get the libertarian like stripping away the regulations,

1496
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:14,960
Speaker 2: getting rid of the employees, you know, letting people do

1497
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,160
Speaker 2: what they want with ram hilk, which again, okay, fine

1498
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:20,560
Speaker 2: if you want to, then you are those other pieces

1499
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 2: of adding in new regulations and keeping things out of

1500
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:27,280
Speaker 2: the food supply and having a body that's able to

1501
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 2: go and do those inspections and make sure that that's

1502
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 2: actually happening, because that also would some of that at

1503
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:36,519
Speaker 2: least would would require acts of Congress as well, And

1504
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 2: as Lee indicates in this piece, I mean as whatever

1505
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:44,160
Speaker 2: Republicans want to say publicly, like they are getting tons

1506
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:47,320
Speaker 2: of money from big food and big AG and they're

1507
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 2: not going to want to give that up lightly. In fact,

1508
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:52,519
Speaker 2: we could put C four up on the screen here.

1509
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 2: Guys like Chuck Grassley, who obviously senator from Iowa. Corn

1510
01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:01,759
Speaker 2: very famously very important there, and the government's subsidizes corn production.

1511
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 2: That's why if you go in the grocery store, like

1512
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 2: most of the center aisles are just different ways that

1513
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 2: you can combine corn into different food items. He says

1514
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 2: he wants to meet with RFK junior. However, he says,

1515
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 2: I may have to spend a lot of time educating

1516
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,640
Speaker 2: him about agriculture, and I am willing to do that,

1517
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:25,760
Speaker 2: so grassly skeptical. A bunch of rural farm state Republicans

1518
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 2: who are very much like I said on the take

1519
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 2: floor with Big agg and with you know, big food,

1520
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 2: are going to be pretty skeptical of making any big changes.

1521
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that they won't necessarily vote to confirm RFK,

1522
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:41,960
Speaker 2: but then if he actually wants to come to them

1523
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 2: to do anything, that is a whole other can of worms.

1524
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 1: I actually asked a source about this recently, because Trump

1525
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:50,800
Speaker 1: has been open on this tension. You know, he said,

1526
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 1: We're not gonna let Bobby go anywhere near the liquid

1527
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:56,160
Speaker 1: natural gas. He said, like have fun, Bobby, but liquid gold.

1528
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 1: Like stay away from the liquid gold. And I asked

1529
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 1: a source whether there would be enough people to staff

1530
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:08,840
Speaker 1: HHS under RFK Junior. Because what's interesting is that some

1531
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 1: even Tea Party senators like Iron Johnson have very sincerely said.

1532
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:14,719
Speaker 5: We were wrong.

1533
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,960
Speaker 1: We are changing our views on food and on drugs,

1534
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 1: and we were way too deferential to corporate interests, and

1535
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 1: like whatever anybody thinks of Ron Johnson. That man is

1536
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 1: entirely sincere about this new world view, and he's been

1537
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 1: pretty like transparent about what changed his mind and opened

1538
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:32,800
Speaker 1: his eyes. And there are a lot of people in

1539
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 1: the greater conservative world. This first started with cultural issues

1540
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: that became very disillusioned with the Chamber of Commerce in

1541
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:45,640
Speaker 1: corporate America and now have no relationships with those prior supporters, donors, allies,

1542
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: and have sincerely come around on the question of food

1543
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:50,519
Speaker 1: and drugs. But when I asked the source, like, are

1544
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 1: there enough people to even go into the government and

1545
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: give him staff, person was like, no, there's a lot

1546
01:16:56,320 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 1: of appetite, but there's not a lot of actual and

1547
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:03,559
Speaker 1: power that genuinely believes. And we can put this this

1548
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 1: is C three, I think up on the screen. This

1549
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:07,679
Speaker 1: is some polling. We can put this up on the screen.

1550
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 1: Voters disapproves, disapprove of recess appointments. They disagree with Trump

1551
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:14,320
Speaker 1: nomine's controversial statements, and some of that is related to

1552
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:17,080
Speaker 1: Robert F. Kennedy Junior. This is voters disagree with various

1553
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:20,960
Speaker 1: statements made by HHS Secretary nominee Robert F. Kennedy Junior.

1554
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 1: And if you're looking here at some of the like

1555
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:28,680
Speaker 1: most this really is crystal some of the most controversial

1556
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:31,559
Speaker 1: stuff that RFK Junior has said that's being pulled here.

1557
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:34,600
Speaker 2: This is I'm going to go for it. It's not controversial.

1558
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 2: Most of the stuff is batshit insane. Vaccines do not

1559
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:44,000
Speaker 2: cause autism, HIV is the cause of AIDS. That suggest otherwise,

1560
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 2: you know, this is where like you know, I know,

1561
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 2: there's like some of the things RFK says about food

1562
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 2: and whatever, I'm totally on board with, even as I'm

1563
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 2: completely skeptical that any of this is actually got any

1564
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 2: of the positive things I would want to see are

1565
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:58,920
Speaker 2: actually going to happen. This is why I think putting

1566
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 2: him at AJHS is honestly terrifying, because while he is

1567
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:08,559
Speaker 2: skeptical of anything that is mainstream science, including Settle signed

1568
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:11,920
Speaker 2: like the measles and the polio vaccines were a great

1569
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:16,640
Speaker 2: benefit to society, and to suggest otherwise, I think is

1570
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:19,240
Speaker 2: deeply damaging. And to have someone in a piece of

1571
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:23,559
Speaker 2: position of power who believes that is quite scary and yeah,

1572
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:28,639
Speaker 2: to be an AIDS truther in this like that's that

1573
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:32,560
Speaker 2: is so frightening to me and potentially damaging that you

1574
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:34,920
Speaker 2: could have someone like that in a position of power.

1575
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 2: You know, this crazy thing is that about like COVID

1576
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:40,160
Speaker 2: nineteen was ethnically targeted. The new one that I like

1577
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 2: is that he had a conspiracy that actually was the

1578
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:46,600
Speaker 2: Trump administration that developed COVID nineteen as like a bioweapon.

1579
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 1: Excellent.

1580
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that audio just came out. The chemicals in

1581
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:54,920
Speaker 2: the drinking water are transing the kids. Like, this is

1582
01:18:54,920 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 2: where it's online and the kids and the kids. This

1583
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:03,759
Speaker 2: is where the online bubble is a real bubble because

1584
01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 2: overwhelmingly people do not believe these things and you know,

1585
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,840
Speaker 2: do not support them whatsoever. But if you, you know,

1586
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:12,840
Speaker 2: if you go online and say, hey, you know what,

1587
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 2: vaccines actually are good and have been good for humanity,

1588
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:17,400
Speaker 2: you will get instantly dogfiled.

1589
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 1: To the point where we were having the conversation we

1590
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 1: were having earlier about social media is in some ways

1591
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 1: totally overlapping it is real life. And then in other

1592
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:28,800
Speaker 1: ways it is disproportionately a platform for echo chamber stuff too,

1593
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 1: still very much so. And that's where it's like, I

1594
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:34,360
Speaker 1: was curious why I asked this person, you know, and

1595
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,879
Speaker 1: this is a person is a longtime Capitol Hill senior staffer,

1596
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:42,759
Speaker 1: like does this exist even in like professional Republican circles,

1597
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 1: like A people who are comfortable with the anti corporatism

1598
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 1: of RFK Junior, and then B who are willing to

1599
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 1: sort of put up with some of that. No, like

1600
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 1: that just is not like the middle of that. Then

1601
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 1: diagram is not big enough that you get people who

1602
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,360
Speaker 1: are comfortable, you know, potentially being in a position. And

1603
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:04,000
Speaker 1: this is RFK Junior. Also, he has to make his

1604
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:06,400
Speaker 1: decision about what he would prioritize if he's confirmed, and

1605
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 1: as he's having conversations with senators, they're going to ask

1606
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 1: him about every single one of those. So he has

1607
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:14,080
Speaker 1: to decide, you know, you are in this fantasy position

1608
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:16,760
Speaker 1: that you've dreamed of being in for decades. Do you

1609
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 1: touch vaccines? Do you touch It's hard to see how

1610
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 1: he wouldn't, but do you touch aids? Like, what do

1611
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:26,560
Speaker 1: you actually do on those topics? Good luck figuring that

1612
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 1: one out.

1613
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:31,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And my experience in interviewing him is that even

1614
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:34,160
Speaker 2: as he talks about corporate power, he is actually much

1615
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:36,679
Speaker 2: more of a libertarian at this point, which is why

1616
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:39,200
Speaker 2: you know, something like universal healthcare was never something that

1617
01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:41,800
Speaker 2: he embraced, at least not in this campaign. Maybe he

1618
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:44,479
Speaker 2: did in past iterations, but you know when I asked

1619
01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 2: him about that, he was oppositional. When you know, he'll

1620
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 2: talk about corporate green how this is such a bad

1621
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 2: part in terms of the food and drug systems. But

1622
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:55,479
Speaker 2: then it's like, Okay, well, do you want to you know,

1623
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:59,040
Speaker 2: do you want to nationalize some of these pharmaceutical companies.

1624
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:00,800
Speaker 2: Do you want to do like what they do in

1625
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 2: California of having state produced insulin that can compete at

1626
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 2: least to you know, provide lower costs. Like, he's not

1627
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 2: interested in any of those sorts of things. So I

1628
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 2: find the his comments about corporate power, skepticism of corporate

1629
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 2: power to not be backed up with policy that would

1630
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:23,519
Speaker 2: actually challenge corporate power. So in any case, we'll see

1631
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 2: how all of this goes. But you know, many of

1632
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:30,759
Speaker 2: the things that he believes in and he supports are

1633
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 2: you know, effectively a rollback of some of the most

1634
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:38,559
Speaker 2: important advances in modern medicine that have helped to eradicate measles,

1635
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:42,240
Speaker 2: have helped to eradicate polio, And you know, we could

1636
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:45,600
Speaker 2: face another pandemic, we could face another situation where this

1637
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:50,759
Speaker 2: becomes incredibly important and have someone who is skeptical certainly

1638
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:55,080
Speaker 2: of corporate profit motives. Great, but who is so credulous

1639
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,760
Speaker 2: when it comes to any sort of like insane crackpot

1640
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:03,479
Speaker 2: theory floated by Rando's on Facebook or whatever, is to

1641
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:04,719
Speaker 2: me very frightening.

1642
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 1: My position on this is basically like we all know

1643
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 1: that HHS and the revolving door situation with food and

1644
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 1: drug is a complete mess and disaster, or same thing

1645
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:18,320
Speaker 1: with FDA, same thing with NIH like these are obviously

1646
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:22,080
Speaker 1: obviously agencies that desperately need to be uprooted. I don't

1647
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 1: know how much anyone could do in terms of doubling

1648
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:28,680
Speaker 1: down on their existing power or being a metaphorical grenade

1649
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 1: to their existing power. In four years. I genuinely like,

1650
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:35,559
Speaker 1: if you're worried about RFK Junior, I think he'll be

1651
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 1: more powerful than people fully understand because of the regulatory

1652
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:40,720
Speaker 1: control that you have as a cabinet head. But I

1653
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:43,719
Speaker 1: think even then you just in four years, I don't

1654
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:47,600
Speaker 1: know how much you can metaphorically grenade all of this.

1655
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:53,719
Speaker 1: So we will see crystal. Speaking of metaphorical grenades, Bernie

1656
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:56,200
Speaker 1: Sanders lobbed one on the floor of the Senate just yesterday.

1657
01:22:56,280 --> 01:23:00,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right, so Bernie Sanders offered in I

1658
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:03,240
Speaker 2: know it's a resolution, I'm not sure what the technical

1659
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 2: term is for it, but he basically offer an opportunity

1660
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:09,559
Speaker 2: for people to vote against continuing to fund this Israeli

1661
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 2: onslaught in Gaza, and he was able to garner more

1662
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:18,040
Speaker 2: support than we've ever seen for such a measure. Still

1663
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:21,360
Speaker 2: far too few senators ultimately voting for it. But let's

1664
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:23,880
Speaker 2: take a listen to Bernie Sanders on the Senate floor

1665
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 2: right now making the case.

1666
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:29,920
Speaker 6: The Foreign Assistance Act and the Arms Export Control Act

1667
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:36,680
Speaker 6: are very clear. The United States cannot provide weapons to

1668
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:44,479
Speaker 6: countries that violate internaturally recognized human rights or block US

1669
01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 6: humanitarian aid. Let me repeat that, because that is the

1670
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:57,639
Speaker 6: essence of this entire debate, not complicated. The United States

1671
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 6: government cannot provide weaponapons to countries that violate internationally recognize

1672
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 6: human rights or block US humanitarian aid. That is not

1673
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:19,639
Speaker 6: my opinion. That is what the law says, mana President,

1674
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:25,680
Speaker 6: According to the United Nations, according to much of the

1675
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 6: international community, according to virtually every humanitarian organization on the

1676
01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 6: ground in Gaza, Israel is clearly in violation of these laws.

1677
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 6: Under these circumstances, it is illegal for the United States

1678
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 6: government to provide Israel with more offensive weapons.

1679
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:57,200
Speaker 2: So that speech and this vote came just before the

1680
01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 2: International Criminal Court has now officially issued arrest warrants for

1681
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:06,080
Speaker 2: both bb NA, Yahoo and for former Defense Minister Joav Gallant.

1682
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:08,760
Speaker 2: We can put this up on the screen, Jeremy Scahill

1683
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:11,920
Speaker 2: tweeting out this news, and he goes on to say

1684
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:14,679
Speaker 2: that the ICC said there is reasonable grounds to assert

1685
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:18,559
Speaker 2: both Natanyahu and Galant engaged in quote the war crime

1686
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:21,720
Speaker 2: of starvation as a method of warfare, which by the way,

1687
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:24,759
Speaker 2: relates directly to what Bernie Sanders was just saying there,

1688
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 2: and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other

1689
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 2: even humane acts. The warrant remains classified in part to

1690
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:35,519
Speaker 2: protect witnesses. He also points out Jeremy Scahill does is,

1691
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:38,200
Speaker 2: of course, Ryan's partner over at drop site. This week,

1692
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:40,759
Speaker 2: the incoming Senate Majority leader John Thune called on Congress

1693
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:46,280
Speaker 2: who passed bipartisan legislation sanctioning ICC prosecutors attempting to prosecute

1694
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 2: Israeli officials. So obviously this is a significant move. It's

1695
01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:53,600
Speaker 2: one we've been expecting for quite some time. You know,

1696
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:57,360
Speaker 2: while there is no police force that can go out

1697
01:25:57,400 --> 01:26:01,080
Speaker 2: internationally and go to Israel and arrest and Yahoo, there

1698
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 2: are quite a lot of countries worldwide where he will

1699
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 2: now no longer be able to travel without being in

1700
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:11,360
Speaker 2: danger of arrest. And for the Israeli Psyche also to

1701
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 2: have their prime minister now arrest warrant issued for these

1702
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:19,400
Speaker 2: crimes against humanity is quite significant. But just to go

1703
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:22,200
Speaker 2: back to Bernie here for a moment, like I said,

1704
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:26,000
Speaker 2: this relates directly to what Bernie was saying. He's pointing out,

1705
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:28,200
Speaker 2: we don't have to even look at international law, which

1706
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:29,800
Speaker 2: I think we should look at international law, but you

1707
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 2: don't have to. The US has laws on the books

1708
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:36,519
Speaker 2: that says you cannot supply military weapons to a country

1709
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:38,840
Speaker 2: that is blocking humanitarian.

1710
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 4: Aid law Blake he law exactly.

1711
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:46,040
Speaker 2: The Biden administration before the election sent out this letter,

1712
01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 2: you have thirty days time Israel to prove to us

1713
01:26:49,439 --> 01:26:52,160
Speaker 2: that you are not blocking humanitarian aid and to improve

1714
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 2: the situation on the ground. They laid out specific benchmarks

1715
01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:58,559
Speaker 2: of the number of eight trucks that they wanted to

1716
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:02,320
Speaker 2: see going. We all know Israel did not meet those benchmarks.

1717
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:04,719
Speaker 2: Now the State Department. Ryan pressed them, and other journalists

1718
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:06,920
Speaker 2: pressed them as well. They said, we don't really know,

1719
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 2: We can't really say, we didn't really assess, and it's like, well,

1720
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:12,120
Speaker 2: you wrote the letter, you laid down the benchmark, and

1721
01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:14,400
Speaker 2: now you don't know and you can't say. But long

1722
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:17,559
Speaker 2: story short, once the election was over, oh lo and behold,

1723
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:20,840
Speaker 2: we're just going to keep doing what we have been doing.

1724
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:22,840
Speaker 2: So let me just put this next piece up on

1725
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:24,760
Speaker 2: the screen and then Emily I'll get your reaction. This

1726
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 2: is D two. So Bernie did garner some significant support.

1727
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 2: As I said, this is far too few, but you

1728
01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 2: had eighteen Democratic senators and one voting present, but eighteen

1729
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:40,200
Speaker 2: who voted in support of blocking those tank rounds to Israel.

1730
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:45,759
Speaker 2: They were Heinrich herono Kin, Tim Kain, Angus King, Marky

1731
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:49,160
Speaker 2: Murkley Ossoff. That's an interesting one because he is Georgia

1732
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:51,760
Speaker 2: swing state up for reelection in twenty and in this

1733
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:53,559
Speaker 2: next election cycle, so that's interesting.

1734
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:54,080
Speaker 4: Bernie.

1735
01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:58,160
Speaker 2: Of course, Shots Smith, Elizabeth Warren, Peter Welch, Dick Durbin,

1736
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:03,519
Speaker 2: Chris fin Holland, Jean Shaheen, Luhan Warnock. Aff's obviously partner

1737
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:07,439
Speaker 2: down there in Georgia and Chris Murphy and Baldwin was

1738
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 2: Baldwin was the president. Krper was a yes, then flipped

1739
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:16,120
Speaker 2: to no. So again, obviously no, we're close to a majority,

1740
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:20,080
Speaker 2: but we've never seen this level of resistance to continuing

1741
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:23,240
Speaker 2: to fund and supply Israel, So in that way, it

1742
01:28:23,320 --> 01:28:23,919
Speaker 2: is noteworthy.

1743
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:26,040
Speaker 1: Well, and John Osoff Ryan pointed this out on x

1744
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 1: that is the only Democrat to vote to restrict those

1745
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 1: weaponshipments to Israel from a state that Donald Trump won.

1746
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:33,880
Speaker 1: He is up for reelection this coming cycle as well,

1747
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 1: and that is John Asoff, So that I do think

1748
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:40,200
Speaker 1: does speak to the nature of how differently people are

1749
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:43,640
Speaker 1: seeing this conflict right now. In John Ossoff, by the way,

1750
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:48,400
Speaker 1: he's a very interesting figure. He's sort of far left

1751
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:52,760
Speaker 1: progressive on some populist questions. He also obviously has a

1752
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:55,240
Speaker 1: base in Georgia, so he has to you know, I

1753
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:58,280
Speaker 1: think he's genuinely kind of centrist on other things. But

1754
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:00,800
Speaker 1: all that is to say he has this thumb very

1755
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:03,720
Speaker 1: firmly on the pulse of like younger voters. Yeah, you've

1756
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:05,920
Speaker 1: probably noticed this too, and that's one of the things

1757
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 1: boomer politicians are confounded by when they look at public

1758
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 1: opinion polling on Israel. I think they totally missed in

1759
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:15,000
Speaker 1: the election. For example, You've talked about this in your monologues,

1760
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:19,759
Speaker 1: like how significantly that either depressed the youth vote, depressed

1761
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:23,919
Speaker 1: youth turnout, depressed youth support for Kamala Harris, or shifted

1762
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:25,960
Speaker 1: some people to Donald Trump. And we can disagree with

1763
01:29:25,960 --> 01:29:28,160
Speaker 1: the reasons that they would have done that, but younger

1764
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:31,920
Speaker 1: Americans are just see this conflict so incredibly differently because

1765
01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:33,679
Speaker 1: their experiences are post nine eleven.

1766
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:36,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also Black Americans tend to have a very

1767
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:39,760
Speaker 2: different view of this conflict. And obviously Georgia, with a

1768
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:42,920
Speaker 2: large black population, Reverend Warnut coming out of the black

1769
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:45,680
Speaker 2: church tradition would be very much in touch with that

1770
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:48,960
Speaker 2: and those historic connections between black civil rights movements and

1771
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:52,640
Speaker 2: the struggle for liberation in Palestine. The other thing with

1772
01:29:52,720 --> 01:29:54,519
Speaker 2: the other question with us off is you know, is

1773
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,559
Speaker 2: this a guy who has presidential ambition who for him

1774
01:29:57,600 --> 01:29:59,920
Speaker 2: this vote is also you know, laying down a marker

1775
01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 2: to distinguish himself on an issue that I think is

1776
01:30:02,360 --> 01:30:05,200
Speaker 2: going to end up being a litmus test in the future.

1777
01:30:04,920 --> 01:30:05,679
Speaker 4: For this party.

1778
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:09,280
Speaker 2: As I hope history reckons with the whoors that unfolded

1779
01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:12,599
Speaker 2: thanks to the Biden administration. And the other thing that's

1780
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 2: become really clear is we can put this up on

1781
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:16,320
Speaker 2: the screen. You know, there was a bit of a

1782
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:19,599
Speaker 2: question going into the election, is d three guys. There's

1783
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:22,679
Speaker 2: a bit of a question heading into the election, like, oh,

1784
01:30:22,760 --> 01:30:24,800
Speaker 2: are the Biden Harris people just sort of doing the

1785
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:27,280
Speaker 2: wrong calculation about how the politics of this work. And

1786
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:29,559
Speaker 2: they're still in this old model where they think you

1787
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:32,479
Speaker 2: just have to support Israel and that it's electorally damaging

1788
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:35,200
Speaker 2: not to do so. And maybe once the election is over.

1789
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:37,200
Speaker 2: I never really thought this was the case, but anyway,

1790
01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:39,759
Speaker 2: this was a theory, right, maybe once the election is over,

1791
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,680
Speaker 2: then maybe Biden, Look, Yolo, you've got only probably not

1792
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:45,680
Speaker 2: that much longer time on this first, but certainly not

1793
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:48,800
Speaker 2: that much longer time in the White House, like you

1794
01:30:48,840 --> 01:30:51,679
Speaker 2: can take a Firmer line, you can actually be moral

1795
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:54,880
Speaker 2: and do the right thing. But the White House was

1796
01:30:54,880 --> 01:31:00,800
Speaker 2: whipping aggressively against this measure from Bernie Sanders, including saying

1797
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:04,200
Speaker 2: that if you oppose these weapons, you're basically hamas classic

1798
01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:09,640
Speaker 2: and also in this these talking points that Huffposts was

1799
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:14,320
Speaker 2: able to get their hands on they also really undercut

1800
01:31:14,520 --> 01:31:18,120
Speaker 2: their public messaging that they want a ceasefire and talked

1801
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 2: about how now's the time for Israel to put the

1802
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:23,880
Speaker 2: pressure on and continue fighting. So, you know, even this

1803
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:27,000
Speaker 2: public posture that they were supposedly in favor of ending

1804
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:30,960
Speaker 2: the fighting and seeking a ceasefire is really undercut by

1805
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:33,120
Speaker 2: the way that they were whipping against this. Chuck Schumer

1806
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:36,719
Speaker 2: was also involved in pressing senators to, you know, back

1807
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:41,280
Speaker 2: the continuing flow of military equipment to Israel. So you know,

1808
01:31:41,360 --> 01:31:44,880
Speaker 2: if anything, actually, I think what we know now is

1809
01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:49,639
Speaker 2: that the electoral calculation they did realize that they were

1810
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:52,320
Speaker 2: couldn't just be all in for Israel. They had to

1811
01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:56,839
Speaker 2: at least give some rhetorical nod to restraint with regards

1812
01:31:56,880 --> 01:32:00,439
Speaker 2: to this conflict. And now that the election is over,

1813
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:05,360
Speaker 2: Biden can go fully, you know, fully embrace his I guess,

1814
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 2: genicidal instincts here and you know, not even pretend like

1815
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:11,000
Speaker 2: he wants to seas fire at this point.

1816
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 1: One of the things that huff Post Piece points out

1817
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:15,200
Speaker 1: is something Ryan talked about yesterday. This is really the

1818
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:18,719
Speaker 1: first time that Congress has considered banning weapon shipments to Israel.

1819
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:24,240
Speaker 1: So Bernie introduced these joint resolutions of disapproval, and it

1820
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:27,360
Speaker 1: was basically blocking six weapon transfers, so that would be

1821
01:32:27,439 --> 01:32:30,320
Speaker 1: things like guided missiles, tank grounds, mortars, tactical vehicles, and

1822
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:34,320
Speaker 1: F fifteen fighters. So it's very rare that you're actually

1823
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:36,080
Speaker 1: forcing members of Congress to go on the record on

1824
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:38,800
Speaker 1: this question. And the Biden administration, to the point you

1825
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:41,360
Speaker 1: were just making, was pushing so hard precisely because of that.

1826
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 1: It's not something that they want people going the record

1827
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:46,240
Speaker 1: in the middle of the war to point out, because

1828
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:51,040
Speaker 1: that's just not something we've done historically. We've bear hugged historically,

1829
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:55,080
Speaker 1: and absolutely for you know, Israeli politicians, Israeli voters to

1830
01:32:55,080 --> 01:32:58,400
Speaker 1: see this, I think does really change things going forward.

1831
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and at the same time, you know, also to

1832
01:33:01,040 --> 01:33:04,760
Speaker 2: that point about how the Biden administration really feels, let's

1833
01:33:04,760 --> 01:33:06,760
Speaker 2: put this next piece up on the screen.

1834
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:07,320
Speaker 16: D four.

1835
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:11,360
Speaker 2: They just vetoed another UN Security Council resolution that demanded

1836
01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:16,320
Speaker 2: an immediate, unconditional permanencies fire and release unconditional release of

1837
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:20,720
Speaker 2: all hostages. Fourteen voted in favor. One that's US opposed.

1838
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:24,960
Speaker 2: And you know, there's a contrast with when Obama was

1839
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:28,479
Speaker 2: on the way out, he actually allowed some resolution of

1840
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:31,600
Speaker 2: condemnation of Israeli content I think of the Israeli occupation

1841
01:33:32,040 --> 01:33:34,880
Speaker 2: to go through the UN Security Council. You know, once

1842
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:37,920
Speaker 2: he was already okay, you know we're done here. I'm

1843
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:39,800
Speaker 2: not running for like I can't run for reelection. He

1844
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:41,840
Speaker 2: allowed that to go through, and that was noteworthy. Here

1845
01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:46,479
Speaker 2: we have Biden administration choosing the polar opposite direction. Noteworthy

1846
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:50,960
Speaker 2: speech given from the Palestinian representative really, you know, laying

1847
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:53,679
Speaker 2: things out about the double standards as applied to Israel.

1848
01:33:53,720 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to a little bit of that.

1849
01:33:55,320 --> 01:33:57,640
Speaker 17: But then, President, the world should not go accustomed to

1850
01:33:57,680 --> 01:34:05,160
Speaker 17: the death of Palestinians, to seeing Palestinian children starving, to

1851
01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:08,280
Speaker 17: seeing mothers carrying their children from one place to another

1852
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:13,960
Speaker 17: forcibly displaced. They should not get accustomed to seeing journalists

1853
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:20,120
Speaker 17: killed and humanitarians killed, to see Palestinians detained, abducted, carried

1854
01:34:20,120 --> 01:34:24,479
Speaker 17: on trucks to go be tortured, sexually, absused, and raped.

1855
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:27,639
Speaker 17: Is there a UN charter for Israel that is different

1856
01:34:27,640 --> 01:34:28,840
Speaker 17: from the chapter you all have.

1857
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:30,960
Speaker 5: Tell us?

1858
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,880
Speaker 17: Is there an international law for them, an international law

1859
01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:39,519
Speaker 17: for us? Do they have the right to kill and

1860
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:41,799
Speaker 17: the only right we have is to die.

1861
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:44,680
Speaker 2: And as you were saying, Emily, you know, if you

1862
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:47,639
Speaker 2: ask people did they vote on foreign very few say

1863
01:34:47,640 --> 01:34:50,120
Speaker 2: that the foreign policy was their number one issue. But

1864
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 2: just to give you guys a little bit of a teaser,

1865
01:34:52,200 --> 01:34:54,680
Speaker 2: we actually been interviewing some of those Griffin's been out

1866
01:34:54,720 --> 01:34:57,519
Speaker 2: interviewing some of those AOC Trump voters, and I listened

1867
01:34:57,520 --> 01:35:00,920
Speaker 2: to the first one yesterday, and the first thing she

1868
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:03,800
Speaker 2: said of why she voted for Trump and AOC is

1869
01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:06,160
Speaker 2: because she wanted peace yep, and.

1870
01:35:06,200 --> 01:35:07,760
Speaker 1: Trump was talking about that on the campaign trill. He

1871
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:09,160
Speaker 1: kept saying, I'm the candidate of peace.

1872
01:35:09,280 --> 01:35:11,639
Speaker 2: Now I think that Trump is not the candidate of peace.

1873
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:15,800
Speaker 2: But if you are trying to position yourself as the

1874
01:35:16,200 --> 01:35:19,280
Speaker 2: campaign that has the moral high ground, making an argument

1875
01:35:19,320 --> 01:35:22,240
Speaker 2: and for favor of democracy, human rights, et cetera, and

1876
01:35:22,360 --> 01:35:25,679
Speaker 2: voters are looking on their phones every day and seeing

1877
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:28,920
Speaker 2: these horrors unfold in their name with their tax dollars,

1878
01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:32,120
Speaker 2: that's kind of going to undercut your position as the

1879
01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:36,160
Speaker 2: you know, morally superior party. And when you're on there

1880
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 2: claiming you're going to be the best for the working

1881
01:35:38,120 --> 01:35:40,120
Speaker 2: class or the or the middle class. Was the language

1882
01:35:40,120 --> 01:35:42,599
Speaker 2: that Kamala use which I prefer working class, but anyway,

1883
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:44,880
Speaker 2: we'll put that aside. When you're out there claiming that

1884
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:46,880
Speaker 2: you're going to deliver for people in middle class, that's

1885
01:35:46,920 --> 01:35:48,840
Speaker 2: what you're going to be focused on. But what they

1886
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:51,320
Speaker 2: see is that you seem to be and certainly Biden

1887
01:35:51,560 --> 01:35:54,760
Speaker 2: the way he talked definitely seemed to be way more

1888
01:35:54,760 --> 01:36:00,360
Speaker 2: focused on NATO Aucus Ukraine and you know, backing Israel lessly.

1889
01:36:00,760 --> 01:36:03,160
Speaker 4: People rightly question whether your.

1890
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:06,760
Speaker 2: Commitment to those economic issues is real, and whether your

1891
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:09,519
Speaker 2: commitment to using their tax dollars actually help them rather

1892
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 2: than fuel these foreign conflicts is real. So you know,

1893
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:15,640
Speaker 2: it's not things are not isolated in the way that

1894
01:36:15,960 --> 01:36:21,479
Speaker 2: polsters portray or that pundits portray. I think that I'm

1895
01:36:21,479 --> 01:36:23,080
Speaker 2: not going to say it was the only issue. I

1896
01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:25,280
Speaker 2: don't know that it was determinative, but it was significant

1897
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 2: that the backing of these horrors undercut the Kamala Harris

1898
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:34,200
Speaker 2: campaign and you know, helped to usher back in the

1899
01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:37,160
Speaker 2: next Trump administration. In my view, there is no doubt

1900
01:36:37,200 --> 01:36:39,920
Speaker 2: in my mind, and you know, people are not wrong

1901
01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:44,040
Speaker 2: to be horrified by what this administration has done, and

1902
01:36:44,240 --> 01:36:46,439
Speaker 2: now that the election is over, their true colors are

1903
01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:48,760
Speaker 2: only coming out to an even greater extent than they

1904
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:49,440
Speaker 2: were previously.

1905
01:36:49,520 --> 01:36:51,880
Speaker 1: Two points of breaking news. Ryan just posted that the

1906
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:55,960
Speaker 1: State Department is canceled it's briefing today and secondly, Bankavier

1907
01:36:56,439 --> 01:36:59,360
Speaker 1: I'm relying on a translation that Yasher Alia is reading here,

1908
01:36:59,400 --> 01:37:03,320
Speaker 1: but just very recently tweeted that Israel should, as Jasher

1909
01:37:03,400 --> 01:37:05,719
Speaker 1: puts it, react to the news of ICC arrest warrants

1910
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:09,200
Speaker 1: by annexing the occupied West Bank. Combine that with US

1911
01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:13,160
Speaker 1: incoming ambassador to Israel, Mike Kakab, and the way Mike

1912
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:16,840
Speaker 1: Kakabi sees the West Bank. For example, I don't know

1913
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:18,479
Speaker 1: that Trump will be the candidate of peace.

1914
01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:21,000
Speaker 2: Well, and Miriam Maddilson, who back to Trump to the

1915
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:22,920
Speaker 2: twoe of some one hundred million dollars, has said this

1916
01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:25,960
Speaker 2: was a top priority for her, the annexation of the

1917
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:30,640
Speaker 2: West Bank. So you know, Huckabee Adelson and now I

1918
01:37:30,640 --> 01:37:34,200
Speaker 2: would say Trump more aligned with like the Ben Gaverers

1919
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:37,280
Speaker 2: and the Smotriches of the world. Then you know, not

1920
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:39,200
Speaker 2: that this is like a great difference, but the Biden

1921
01:37:39,240 --> 01:37:41,479
Speaker 2: administration was like Youoev Golan, who also is a monster

1922
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 2: and was just just you know, arrest warrant out for

1923
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:47,759
Speaker 2: him from the ICC as well, but he at least

1924
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:50,479
Speaker 2: posture like he was interested in some sort of a

1925
01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:53,280
Speaker 2: peace deal. So anyway, I think that's that's likely where

1926
01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:59,200
Speaker 2: we are headed wild. Yeah. Indeed, very happy to be

1927
01:37:59,280 --> 01:38:02,680
Speaker 2: joined this morning by my great friend and independent substack

1928
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:05,879
Speaker 2: journalist Torrey. You can follow him over at his Culture

1929
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:08,200
Speaker 2: Fry's substack. Right to see you, my friends.

1930
01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 10: Nice to see you.

1931
01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:12,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, So you did some fantastic reporting here.

1932
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:13,960
Speaker 2: You can put this up on the screen about some

1933
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:17,960
Speaker 2: of the internal dynamics within the Kamala Harris A campaign.

1934
01:38:18,040 --> 01:38:21,600
Speaker 2: And you asked the question, did Jen O'Malley Dylan, a

1935
01:38:21,720 --> 01:38:26,080
Speaker 2: Biden loyalist, doom Kamala's presidential bid? You say, Harris was

1936
01:38:26,120 --> 01:38:28,639
Speaker 2: forced to run with a Biden loyalist who stabbed her

1937
01:38:28,760 --> 01:38:32,000
Speaker 2: in the back. Just explain some of these dynamics that

1938
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:34,799
Speaker 2: were going on behind the scenes, tore according to your reporting.

1939
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:37,960
Speaker 12: Yeah, I just started calling my friends in DC at

1940
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:42,599
Speaker 12: democratic high places, and people kept talking about Jen O'Malley Dylon,

1941
01:38:42,680 --> 01:38:46,599
Speaker 12: who was the campaign chair for Kamala Harris twenty twenty four,

1942
01:38:47,160 --> 01:38:51,120
Speaker 12: but in twenty twenty three, when Biden felt threatened that

1943
01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:53,599
Speaker 12: the party might try to push him out and replace

1944
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:55,920
Speaker 12: him with Kamala, or forced him to force them to

1945
01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:56,599
Speaker 12: do a primary.

1946
01:38:57,560 --> 01:38:57,960
Speaker 10: Biden.

1947
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:01,720
Speaker 18: People like gen o' mally dillon started messaging to media

1948
01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:02,759
Speaker 18: against Kamala.

1949
01:39:02,840 --> 01:39:05,120
Speaker 10: So there's these articles from twenty twenty three.

1950
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:09,720
Speaker 18: Saying maybe Biden should dump Tamala as VP. Those are

1951
01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:14,360
Speaker 18: coming from Jen O'Malley Dylan. So the person who Kamala

1952
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:16,679
Speaker 18: would later have to take on as their campaign chair

1953
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:18,920
Speaker 18: because there's one hundred days left, we don't have time

1954
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:21,120
Speaker 18: to look for a new person. We have a million tasks.

1955
01:39:21,439 --> 01:39:24,120
Speaker 18: We have to accept her. She had been messing doing

1956
01:39:24,120 --> 01:39:27,960
Speaker 18: it against her. Beside the fact that the entire campaign

1957
01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:31,559
Speaker 18: was constructed for Joe Biden, they just put a different

1958
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:33,759
Speaker 18: space on it, and I think a lot of people

1959
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:37,920
Speaker 18: understood there's a Frankenstein nature to this campaign. So it

1960
01:39:37,960 --> 01:39:41,559
Speaker 18: didn't feel right, it didn't fit right, And you've done

1961
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:44,679
Speaker 18: a lot of criticism of the consulting class. Jeno melly

1962
01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:47,400
Speaker 18: Dylan is one of these people who has an ad

1963
01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:51,759
Speaker 18: buying company. So when a candidate places a television ad,

1964
01:39:52,280 --> 01:39:56,160
Speaker 18: Jen O'Malley Dylan or someone like her is personally enriched

1965
01:39:56,360 --> 01:40:00,240
Speaker 18: by that decision. In a campaign where television add as

1966
01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:05,479
Speaker 18: were maybe not decisive, and Trump going on podcasts and

1967
01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:08,400
Speaker 18: the Bros spear the man of fear and seeming like

1968
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:11,120
Speaker 18: a man of the people. Somehow, when that was working,

1969
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:14,600
Speaker 18: Jeneal malle Dillon and people like her are incentivized to

1970
01:40:14,840 --> 01:40:18,400
Speaker 18: not notice that trend. They are being personally enriched by

1971
01:40:18,439 --> 01:40:20,679
Speaker 18: putting her on TV ads again and again.

1972
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:23,799
Speaker 10: So these are some of the reasons why people keep.

1973
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:27,080
Speaker 18: Telling me Jenel Malladan was a big problem, but Kamala

1974
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:30,320
Speaker 18: couldn't get away from her because the campaign did not

1975
01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:30,880
Speaker 18: have time.

1976
01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:34,599
Speaker 1: And there's reporting that there were still Biden sidens up

1977
01:40:34,640 --> 01:40:38,080
Speaker 1: inside Kamala Harris headquarters on election day because it just

1978
01:40:38,320 --> 01:40:41,600
Speaker 1: hadn't They hadn't fully like shifted. Could you talk to

1979
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:44,520
Speaker 1: us a little bit about General Mallaydlan just as an operative,

1980
01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:46,439
Speaker 1: like who she is, where she came from, like the

1981
01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:49,000
Speaker 1: context about her. So I think it's sort of telling

1982
01:40:49,040 --> 01:40:50,840
Speaker 1: and you're right about this, I mean it's sort of

1983
01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:53,880
Speaker 1: telling us to what ended up happening the.

1984
01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:57,360
Speaker 18: Long term Biden person. She was huge in the victorious

1985
01:40:57,439 --> 01:41:00,599
Speaker 18: Biden campaign. She was also huge and the Disasters Better

1986
01:41:00,920 --> 01:41:05,479
Speaker 18: Work for President campaign. She was the Deputy White House

1987
01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:08,599
Speaker 18: Chief of Staff, so she isn't the real Biden person.

1988
01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:12,040
Speaker 18: And people talked about how Biden did not let do

1989
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:15,360
Speaker 18: people in. Almost everybody around him had been around him

1990
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:16,400
Speaker 18: since the seventies.

1991
01:41:17,080 --> 01:41:20,040
Speaker 10: Many of them shared his last name or in his family.

1992
01:41:20,280 --> 01:41:23,240
Speaker 18: So let somebody else do into the group, like General

1993
01:41:23,240 --> 01:41:25,759
Speaker 18: Mallley Dillon. She had to be really loved and trusted.

1994
01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:30,160
Speaker 18: So this is the person who signed up to work

1995
01:41:30,200 --> 01:41:32,919
Speaker 18: for Biden, who believed in Biden as far as the campaign,

1996
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:36,559
Speaker 18: who felt like this is the guy. It's hard to

1997
01:41:36,680 --> 01:41:40,280
Speaker 18: run a campaign when the people around you didn't sign

1998
01:41:40,360 --> 01:41:42,559
Speaker 18: up for you and don't necessarily believe in you.

1999
01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:45,200
Speaker 10: And we see it. Jen's the example. A lot of

2000
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:46,720
Speaker 10: people are like she.

2001
01:41:47,080 --> 01:41:51,440
Speaker 18: They never liked her. Jen just never was impressed by Kamala.

2002
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:53,720
Speaker 10: Didn't want her to be the VP. How do you

2003
01:41:53,840 --> 01:41:55,879
Speaker 10: have that sort of a person who.

2004
01:41:55,720 --> 01:42:00,640
Speaker 18: Doesn't really believe in you truly deeply important to your campaign.

2005
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:04,240
Speaker 2: I think it also, and you indicate this as well,

2006
01:42:04,720 --> 01:42:08,000
Speaker 2: could have had an impact on their inability to separate

2007
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:11,920
Speaker 2: themselves from Joe Biden. Yep, And this ends up being

2008
01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:14,519
Speaker 2: one of the most central problems. I think everyone would

2009
01:42:14,520 --> 01:42:17,040
Speaker 2: acknowledge with the campaign is Kamala Harris gets asked this

2010
01:42:17,120 --> 01:42:19,360
Speaker 2: question on the view of what would you have done differently,

2011
01:42:19,400 --> 01:42:22,759
Speaker 2: and she says not a single thing. It's like, Okay,

2012
01:42:22,960 --> 01:42:25,880
Speaker 2: you've got this guy who is profoundly unpopular. You can

2013
01:42:25,920 --> 01:42:28,120
Speaker 2: see the polls, we can all see the polls. We

2014
01:42:28,240 --> 01:42:30,920
Speaker 2: know as a change election, one of your biggest jobs

2015
01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:32,720
Speaker 2: is to try to make the case for why you

2016
01:42:32,720 --> 01:42:34,960
Speaker 2: would be different, and you're unable to do that.

2017
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:35,160
Speaker 6: Now.

2018
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:37,080
Speaker 2: Obviously, Kamala Harris a big girl like she could have

2019
01:42:37,120 --> 01:42:39,320
Speaker 2: come up with that answer herself. But when you have

2020
01:42:39,400 --> 01:42:42,479
Speaker 2: a team around you that is so deeply loyal to

2021
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:45,120
Speaker 2: Joe Biden and doesn't want to criticize him at all,

2022
01:42:45,439 --> 01:42:47,879
Speaker 2: then you aren't going to be supported from your staff

2023
01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:50,120
Speaker 2: in trying to separate yourself in the way you need

2024
01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:51,640
Speaker 2: to to be electorally successful.

2025
01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:53,439
Speaker 10: That's exactly right.

2026
01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:57,320
Speaker 18: The staff is the staff that loves Biden personally, that

2027
01:42:57,439 --> 01:43:00,120
Speaker 18: is loyal to him, that has been with him for years,

2028
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:02,679
Speaker 18: is not going to counsel her to say, hey, I'm

2029
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:03,920
Speaker 18: going to be different than Biden.

2030
01:43:04,040 --> 01:43:05,200
Speaker 10: Here's how I'm going to do it.

2031
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:08,280
Speaker 18: A Kamala staff would have done that, but a Biden's

2032
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:11,200
Speaker 18: staff advising Kamala is just not going to do that.

2033
01:43:11,439 --> 01:43:13,640
Speaker 18: And yes, a lot of people were like, she's not

2034
01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:17,280
Speaker 18: drawing enough of a contrast from the unpopular president. Well

2035
01:43:17,840 --> 01:43:21,080
Speaker 18: that then she becomes a semi incumbent where she has

2036
01:43:21,120 --> 01:43:23,320
Speaker 18: to run on his record, which she did not create.

2037
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:25,639
Speaker 18: But then she also has to deal with what has

2038
01:43:25,680 --> 01:43:27,080
Speaker 18: she done the last four years?

2039
01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:29,519
Speaker 10: So like, which is it? She was getting the worst

2040
01:43:29,520 --> 01:43:30,559
Speaker 10: of it from both sides.

2041
01:43:32,360 --> 01:43:34,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like and this is what I'm really

2042
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:37,719
Speaker 1: curious about too. I've heard some on why Kamala Harrison

2043
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:40,439
Speaker 1: decided to keep General Malley Dylan around, but it seems

2044
01:43:40,439 --> 01:43:44,040
Speaker 1: pretty clear at this point that's potentially the fatal error

2045
01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:45,760
Speaker 1: of her campaign. And I know we're going to talk

2046
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:47,519
Speaker 1: a little bit about the lack of the primary and

2047
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:50,920
Speaker 1: your position I think rightly on why that was disastrous

2048
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:54,080
Speaker 1: for Democrats. But even keeping on General Malley decision, General

2049
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:56,800
Speaker 1: O'Malley Dillon, which is a decision Kamala harrison't seem to

2050
01:43:57,040 --> 01:43:59,960
Speaker 1: have to make, but went with anyway, what do you

2051
01:44:00,400 --> 01:44:02,400
Speaker 1: I mean, was there anyway for Kamalahirs not to hire

2052
01:44:02,479 --> 01:44:03,280
Speaker 1: General Mallee Dylan.

2053
01:44:03,920 --> 01:44:07,120
Speaker 10: The people who I spoke to who understand.

2054
01:44:07,160 --> 01:44:10,720
Speaker 18: The Dems who understand campaigning were like, there was no

2055
01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:13,080
Speaker 18: way to move away from General Malley Dillon.

2056
01:44:13,120 --> 01:44:14,960
Speaker 10: We've got one hundred some days.

2057
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:16,439
Speaker 18: We got to pick a VP, we got to get

2058
01:44:16,439 --> 01:44:17,960
Speaker 18: the messaging right, we got to get ready for the

2059
01:44:18,040 --> 01:44:21,680
Speaker 18: DNC A million, gigantic tasks that we generally spend.

2060
01:44:21,400 --> 01:44:24,320
Speaker 10: A year to two years doing. We got one hundred days.

2061
01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:28,760
Speaker 18: Anything that is not on fire, we gotta leave it

2062
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:32,800
Speaker 18: be and just keep plowing forward. Yes, and General Malllee

2063
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:36,160
Speaker 18: Dylon was too much of a part of the campaign already.

2064
01:44:36,240 --> 01:44:39,720
Speaker 18: She moved there to support the Biden campaign. When the

2065
01:44:39,800 --> 01:44:42,080
Speaker 18: switch happened, which is what they all call it, the switch,

2066
01:44:42,640 --> 01:44:44,800
Speaker 18: it was too late. We have to keep going. We

2067
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:47,960
Speaker 18: can't replace her. They also had Stephanie Kutter, who was

2068
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:52,439
Speaker 18: working communications, who founded that I buying firm with General

2069
01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:53,040
Speaker 18: Malley Dylan.

2070
01:44:53,400 --> 01:44:55,960
Speaker 10: It's a very small ancestraus group.

2071
01:44:56,040 --> 01:44:59,559
Speaker 18: So I don't know how far away from that sort

2072
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:02,320
Speaker 18: of post Obama world she could have gotten away from

2073
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:04,800
Speaker 18: because all these people David Fluff is the third big

2074
01:45:04,880 --> 01:45:06,679
Speaker 18: name advising the campaign.

2075
01:45:06,760 --> 01:45:08,320
Speaker 10: These are all Obama.

2076
01:45:08,000 --> 01:45:12,960
Speaker 2: People, right right, yeah, And I mean it is a

2077
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:16,480
Speaker 2: difficult situation. She was put in let's put Torre's additional

2078
01:45:16,479 --> 01:45:18,680
Speaker 2: piece up on the screen where you talk about how

2079
01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:21,400
Speaker 2: the lack of a primary really was a disaster for

2080
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:24,120
Speaker 2: Kamala is a disaster for the party in general. And again,

2081
01:45:24,240 --> 01:45:25,880
Speaker 2: you know, the general Malley Dillans of the world are

2082
01:45:25,960 --> 01:45:28,400
Speaker 2: kind of the scene of both crimes because they're also

2083
01:45:28,439 --> 01:45:30,120
Speaker 2: the ones that are leaking to the process, Like you

2084
01:45:30,160 --> 01:45:31,920
Speaker 2: got to just stay with Biden because Kamala would be

2085
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:34,719
Speaker 2: next in line and she'd be a disaster. That helps

2086
01:45:34,760 --> 01:45:37,320
Speaker 2: to rally the troops and circle the wagon. So there

2087
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:41,720
Speaker 2: is no real democratic primary process in order to you know,

2088
01:45:41,800 --> 01:45:45,280
Speaker 2: either pick a candidate who's different from Kamala or even

2089
01:45:45,320 --> 01:45:47,280
Speaker 2: just for Kamala herself to be able to go through

2090
01:45:47,320 --> 01:45:50,759
Speaker 2: that process and become a better candidate as a result

2091
01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:51,040
Speaker 2: of it.

2092
01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:56,520
Speaker 18: Yes, all the criticism of, oh, she's not great at interviews,

2093
01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:58,639
Speaker 18: she's not great at speeches, she's not great at connecting

2094
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:01,960
Speaker 18: with voters, what have you, all of those things would

2095
01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:04,839
Speaker 18: have been strengthened if she had had time to campaign,

2096
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:07,080
Speaker 18: If she'd had a year year and a half to

2097
01:46:07,160 --> 01:46:09,760
Speaker 18: be out in the trail, connecting with voters, talking to

2098
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:13,519
Speaker 18: milli and Iowa, whatever, it would have made her better

2099
01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:15,840
Speaker 18: at all these things. But the other thing is that

2100
01:46:16,560 --> 01:46:22,439
Speaker 18: this air of illegitimacy hung around the campaign. If she

2101
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:25,559
Speaker 18: had had to fight and won, that would have conveyed

2102
01:46:25,560 --> 01:46:28,760
Speaker 18: a certain legitimacy on her campaign. I know, some folks

2103
01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:32,160
Speaker 18: are going, she's the VP. You know, a lot of

2104
01:46:32,240 --> 01:46:36,400
Speaker 18: voters left and right used words like coronation, used words

2105
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:39,520
Speaker 18: like who. They did not like the way that Kamala

2106
01:46:39,560 --> 01:46:43,360
Speaker 18: ascended to the nomination. They wanted to see some fight,

2107
01:46:43,760 --> 01:46:48,480
Speaker 18: and Kamala's message that democracy is under threat was undercut

2108
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:52,719
Speaker 18: by the not so democratic way that she got the nomination.

2109
01:46:52,920 --> 01:46:55,000
Speaker 10: It undercut her whole argument.

2110
01:46:55,520 --> 01:46:58,760
Speaker 2: Yeah no, that's so true. And also if she had

2111
01:46:58,800 --> 01:47:01,920
Speaker 2: had to go through that process, and whether it's her

2112
01:47:01,920 --> 01:47:04,360
Speaker 2: that emerges or someone else, they would have been out

2113
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:06,920
Speaker 2: there affirmatively making the case of what they wanted to

2114
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:11,040
Speaker 2: do in opposition of what Biden has already done. So

2115
01:47:11,080 --> 01:47:13,120
Speaker 2: it sort of would have rendered moot this question of

2116
01:47:13,160 --> 01:47:14,880
Speaker 2: how are you different, because you would have had a

2117
01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:17,880
Speaker 2: whole primary process playing out where people are explaining what

2118
01:47:17,920 --> 01:47:19,920
Speaker 2: their views are and how they do things different and

2119
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:21,280
Speaker 2: what it would look like going forward.

2120
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:22,519
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2121
01:47:22,640 --> 01:47:23,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, And you know, part of the thing too.

2122
01:47:24,120 --> 01:47:29,240
Speaker 18: People talked about Kamala's twenty twenty campaign was relatively short,

2123
01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:33,320
Speaker 18: so she doesn't create these deep bonds with campaign folks

2124
01:47:33,360 --> 01:47:35,880
Speaker 18: who are going to ride with her into the future.

2125
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:38,880
Speaker 18: There weren't people from that campaign who were helping her

2126
01:47:39,000 --> 01:47:43,240
Speaker 18: this campaign. And other people have pointed out that Tony West,

2127
01:47:43,280 --> 01:47:46,439
Speaker 18: who is her brother in law I believe, yeah, who

2128
01:47:46,520 --> 01:47:48,800
Speaker 18: was a huge advisor to this campaign.

2129
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:51,360
Speaker 10: At first, Kamala was.

2130
01:47:51,320 --> 01:47:53,320
Speaker 18: Saying, you know, we need to bring about prices. A

2131
01:47:53,320 --> 01:47:55,880
Speaker 18: lot of people were mad about the prices of ubers.

2132
01:47:56,479 --> 01:48:01,400
Speaker 18: Tony West was a lawyer at Uber. Please stop dissing

2133
01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:05,280
Speaker 18: Uber and Uber's prices. That was a great message for her.

2134
01:48:05,360 --> 01:48:09,960
Speaker 18: So the whole message of dealing with prices, they edged her,

2135
01:48:10,120 --> 01:48:12,960
Speaker 18: they pushed her away from because they were in that

2136
01:48:13,120 --> 01:48:16,600
Speaker 18: system being advised by people who are not helping.

2137
01:48:16,280 --> 01:48:17,040
Speaker 10: Her in the right way.

2138
01:48:17,560 --> 01:48:19,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a great point. And actually there was

2139
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:23,320
Speaker 2: a lot of reporting about how influential Tony West ends

2140
01:48:23,400 --> 01:48:25,240
Speaker 2: up being. And that's like, you know, the one person

2141
01:48:25,280 --> 01:48:27,680
Speaker 2: she brings in that she feels comfortable with, and here

2142
01:48:27,720 --> 01:48:29,600
Speaker 2: he is this corporate lawyer who's like, you know, this

2143
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:33,240
Speaker 2: price gouging stuff. I don't know about that. I don't

2144
01:48:33,240 --> 01:48:35,760
Speaker 2: know about that one. And so actually her super pac

2145
01:48:35,920 --> 01:48:38,320
Speaker 2: had tested this ad that was all about price gouging,

2146
01:48:38,360 --> 01:48:40,280
Speaker 2: and they said, you know, tested one hundred percent. It

2147
01:48:40,320 --> 01:48:43,280
Speaker 2: was the most effective ad they tested. It got virtually

2148
01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:47,920
Speaker 2: no money behind it because of that pushback from you know,

2149
01:48:48,040 --> 01:48:50,160
Speaker 2: the Tony West of the world and the other corporate

2150
01:48:50,160 --> 01:48:53,720
Speaker 2: donors who were uncomfortable with that messaging.

2151
01:48:53,960 --> 01:48:56,040
Speaker 4: So just yeah, a very.

2152
01:48:56,479 --> 01:49:00,080
Speaker 18: Somebody pointed out to me, and I hate to say it,

2153
01:49:00,160 --> 01:49:04,040
Speaker 18: but like Obama, Obama World, who else have they elected

2154
01:49:04,360 --> 01:49:09,280
Speaker 18: Beside Obama? They haven't gotten anybody else elected. And we

2155
01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:12,599
Speaker 18: can love him as a candidate and as a president,

2156
01:49:12,640 --> 01:49:16,240
Speaker 18: but like they haven't had any coattails. And this was

2157
01:49:16,280 --> 01:49:20,080
Speaker 18: another attempt to create that. And some may say like, okay,

2158
01:49:20,160 --> 01:49:23,840
Speaker 18: well Biden gets elected, like for sure, but like a

2159
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:27,000
Speaker 18: lot of other people who the Obama world tried to

2160
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:28,600
Speaker 18: push have failed.

2161
01:49:28,320 --> 01:49:32,439
Speaker 2: Well, and Obama World tried to shive Biden actually never

2162
01:49:32,479 --> 01:49:34,559
Speaker 2: had any confidence that he would succeed.

2163
01:49:35,560 --> 01:49:38,200
Speaker 4: So you know, there's there's a lot a lot there.

2164
01:49:38,439 --> 01:49:38,639
Speaker 10: Tori.

2165
01:49:38,760 --> 01:49:40,280
Speaker 4: Tell people where they can find you, where they can

2166
01:49:40,320 --> 01:49:40,880
Speaker 4: follow your work.

2167
01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:44,280
Speaker 10: I'm on substack. It's called culture Frize.

2168
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:48,160
Speaker 2: By toure fantastic, great reporting on this and always great

2169
01:49:48,160 --> 01:49:48,639
Speaker 2: to see you.

2170
01:49:49,320 --> 01:49:50,280
Speaker 10: Nice to see you, Thank you.

2171
01:49:53,320 --> 01:49:56,439
Speaker 2: Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace, smelling blood in the water and

2172
01:49:56,520 --> 01:49:59,240
Speaker 2: never wanting to miss a good opportunity for self promotion,

2173
01:49:59,400 --> 01:50:02,559
Speaker 2: decided to take aim at one of her newly elected colleagues,

2174
01:50:02,840 --> 01:50:06,599
Speaker 2: a woman named Sarah McBride, who happens to be transgender. Now, Mace,

2175
01:50:06,680 --> 01:50:08,760
Speaker 2: to in a previous incoarronation when out of her way

2176
01:50:08,800 --> 01:50:12,600
Speaker 2: to explain how she supports LGBTQ rights, is at a

2177
01:50:12,720 --> 01:50:15,920
Speaker 2: very politically expedient change of heart, because in twenty twenty four,

2178
01:50:15,960 --> 01:50:19,639
Speaker 2: Republican politics cruelty pace, and none more so than cruelty

2179
01:50:19,680 --> 01:50:22,599
Speaker 2: towards trans people. So Mace went on a self right

2180
01:50:22,680 --> 01:50:26,559
Speaker 2: as posting spree, performatively declaring herself to be the savior

2181
01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:31,040
Speaker 2: of women by policing the bathroom that one singular trans

2182
01:50:31,080 --> 01:50:34,040
Speaker 2: member of Congress might be allowed to use for her

2183
01:50:34,080 --> 01:50:36,880
Speaker 2: efforts at bullying. She of course earned raptures ovation from

2184
01:50:36,920 --> 01:50:39,360
Speaker 2: the Twitter Republican base. I'm sure the Fox News hits

2185
01:50:39,400 --> 01:50:43,640
Speaker 2: are incoming. Maso is correct to send some democratic vulnerability

2186
01:50:43,680 --> 01:50:46,320
Speaker 2: on this issue right now, as the party enters into

2187
01:50:46,360 --> 01:50:49,200
Speaker 2: a round of recriminations in which the potential role of

2188
01:50:49,240 --> 01:50:52,920
Speaker 2: trans rights in their electoral defeat looms quite large. Now

2189
01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:56,000
Speaker 2: central to this dem Party debate is the effectiveness of

2190
01:50:56,040 --> 01:50:59,920
Speaker 2: this particular Trump campaign ad, which dominated the airwaves in

2191
01:51:00,040 --> 01:51:00,960
Speaker 2: battleground states.

2192
01:51:01,400 --> 01:51:05,320
Speaker 16: Kamala supports taxpayer funded sex changes for prisoners.

2193
01:51:04,920 --> 01:51:07,360
Speaker 5: Surgery for prisoners.

2194
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:12,880
Speaker 8: For prisoners, every transgender inmate in the prison system would

2195
01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:13,599
Speaker 8: have access.

2196
01:51:14,120 --> 01:51:16,839
Speaker 16: It's hard to believe, but it's true. Even the liberal

2197
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:20,600
Speaker 16: media was shocked. Kamala supports taxpayer funded sex changes for

2198
01:51:20,720 --> 01:51:22,440
Speaker 16: prisoners and illegal aliens.

2199
01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:25,679
Speaker 5: Every transgender inmate would have access.

2200
01:51:25,920 --> 01:51:28,800
Speaker 16: Kamala's for they them. President Trump is for you.

2201
01:51:29,040 --> 01:51:29,680
Speaker 5: I'm Donald J.

2202
01:51:29,800 --> 01:51:32,240
Speaker 10: Trump, and I improve this message.

2203
01:51:31,760 --> 01:51:34,439
Speaker 2: So that ad serves several purposes at once. First, and

2204
01:51:34,479 --> 01:51:37,839
Speaker 2: most obviously, centers a deeply unpopular position held by Kamala.

2205
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:40,559
Speaker 2: Harrison has the benefit of Kamala herself being on camera

2206
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:43,320
Speaker 2: explaining her support for that fringe issue. And I do

2207
01:51:43,400 --> 01:51:48,320
Speaker 2: mean fringe. According to popular info, only two trans inmates

2208
01:51:48,560 --> 01:51:52,080
Speaker 2: have ever received surgical care, and then after long legal

2209
01:51:52,120 --> 01:51:56,160
Speaker 2: battles to achieve that care. No undocumented transgender immigrants have

2210
01:51:56,280 --> 01:51:59,720
Speaker 2: ever ever been provided with surgical care. Also happens the

2211
01:51:59,800 --> 01:52:01,720
Speaker 2: law was on the books and enforced under the Trump

2212
01:52:01,760 --> 01:52:05,080
Speaker 2: administration as well. Second, though the ad seeks to paint

2213
01:52:05,120 --> 01:52:08,519
Speaker 2: Kamala as were focused on these fringe issues than on

2214
01:52:08,600 --> 01:52:11,040
Speaker 2: the things that will improve the lives of the vast majority.

2215
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:14,559
Speaker 2: That's what makes the tagline so deviously brilliant and memorable.

2216
01:52:14,800 --> 01:52:18,959
Speaker 2: She's for they them, He's for you. So how effective

2217
01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:20,439
Speaker 2: was this ad? And to be honest with you, you can

2218
01:52:20,479 --> 01:52:22,559
Speaker 2: kind of paint the data any direction that you want to.

2219
01:52:22,920 --> 01:52:24,960
Speaker 2: For those who claim it was really damaging, there's the

2220
01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:28,000
Speaker 2: simple fact that both campaigns thought it was effective. The

2221
01:52:28,040 --> 01:52:31,000
Speaker 2: Trump campaign, of course, put tens of millions of dollars

2222
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:33,080
Speaker 2: behind it. According to The New York Times, the Harris

2223
01:52:33,120 --> 01:52:36,320
Speaker 2: campaign and their affiliated super packs, they had big debates

2224
01:52:36,320 --> 01:52:39,920
Speaker 2: internally about how and whether to respond. We'll get back

2225
01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:42,559
Speaker 2: to that in a moment. In addition, a poll after

2226
01:52:42,600 --> 01:52:44,960
Speaker 2: the election found that swing voters were most persuaded by

2227
01:52:44,960 --> 01:52:47,360
Speaker 2: the message that quote Kamala Harris has focused more on

2228
01:52:47,439 --> 01:52:51,559
Speaker 2: cultural issues like transgender issues rather than helping the middle class.

2229
01:52:52,120 --> 01:52:54,040
Speaker 2: On the other hand, in the states where the ad

2230
01:52:54,200 --> 01:52:57,960
Speaker 2: was in heavy rotation, Kamala narrowed her national gap suggested

2231
01:52:57,960 --> 01:53:01,720
Speaker 2: that Kamala's ad campaign focused on economic actually outperformed the

2232
01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:05,280
Speaker 2: Trump campaign, which heavily focused on trans issues, since her

2233
01:53:05,320 --> 01:53:08,120
Speaker 2: ads did help to close the gap in contrast to

2234
01:53:08,160 --> 01:53:12,000
Speaker 2: the overall national environment. Furthermore, a Gallup poll found that

2235
01:53:12,080 --> 01:53:16,160
Speaker 2: of twenty two possible issues, voters ranked transgender issues at

2236
01:53:16,160 --> 01:53:19,679
Speaker 2: the very bottom of all twenty two issues in terms

2237
01:53:19,720 --> 01:53:22,639
Speaker 2: of importance. Now, in all of the voter interviews I've seen,

2238
01:53:22,640 --> 01:53:25,040
Speaker 2: for what it's worth, I actually haven't heard the issue

2239
01:53:25,040 --> 01:53:28,320
Speaker 2: of transgender rights mentioned a single time in either direction.

2240
01:53:28,920 --> 01:53:31,160
Speaker 2: In addition, at the same time that New York State

2241
01:53:31,240 --> 01:53:34,400
Speaker 2: moved more than eleven points towards Donald Trump, the single

2242
01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:37,639
Speaker 2: largest shift in the entire country. Voters at the same

2243
01:53:37,680 --> 01:53:43,400
Speaker 2: time overwhelmingly passed a constitutional amendment which would guarantee transgender equality.

2244
01:53:43,920 --> 01:53:46,840
Speaker 2: Critics aggressively ran against that measure. They claimed it would

2245
01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:49,679
Speaker 2: enshrine in the state's constitution a right for trans girls

2246
01:53:49,720 --> 01:53:52,880
Speaker 2: to play sports in girls leagues and to receive transgender

2247
01:53:52,920 --> 01:53:56,360
Speaker 2: surgeries without parental consent. Voters didn't care, though, and they

2248
01:53:56,400 --> 01:53:59,080
Speaker 2: passed that initiative in a vote of sixty two to

2249
01:53:59,200 --> 01:54:01,559
Speaker 2: thirty eight. So I am a little skeptical of the

2250
01:54:01,560 --> 01:54:05,000
Speaker 2: notion the issue was the deciding factor. But regardless, Democrats

2251
01:54:05,040 --> 01:54:06,920
Speaker 2: had got to figure out how they're going to respond,

2252
01:54:06,960 --> 01:54:09,040
Speaker 2: and right now they're kind of in a freak out mode.

2253
01:54:09,160 --> 01:54:12,160
Speaker 2: The Times quotes former Democratic Governor of Pennsylvania Ed Rendell

2254
01:54:12,280 --> 01:54:15,040
Speaker 2: saying that Kamma's failure to respond to the Trump attack

2255
01:54:15,080 --> 01:54:19,160
Speaker 2: ADS was quote political malpractice. But apparently it wasn't that

2256
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:21,800
Speaker 2: the Harris camp didn't want to respond, it's that none

2257
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:26,080
Speaker 2: of the responses they tested to it actually really worked. Quote. Largely,

2258
01:54:26,120 --> 01:54:29,040
Speaker 2: the campaign decided the best response was changing the subject.

2259
01:54:29,240 --> 01:54:32,960
Speaker 2: Meg Schwenzweizer, the chief analytics officer for the Harris campaign,

2260
01:54:33,040 --> 01:54:36,200
Speaker 2: said the Vice President's team determined its economic message was

2261
01:54:36,200 --> 01:54:39,640
Speaker 2: the most effective answer quote in all of our quantitative

2262
01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:42,480
Speaker 2: and qualitative research on this AD, our best testing responses

2263
01:54:42,680 --> 01:54:46,280
Speaker 2: pivoted to the economy. She said, these responses not only

2264
01:54:46,320 --> 01:54:49,440
Speaker 2: neutralize the attack, but actually move people towards us because

2265
01:54:49,480 --> 01:54:53,440
Speaker 2: they showed voters that the vice president did care about you.

2266
01:54:53,440 --> 01:54:56,200
Speaker 2: You know. To be honest, I think the campaign was

2267
01:54:56,200 --> 01:54:58,520
Speaker 2: probably right that the best thing they could do in

2268
01:54:58,560 --> 01:55:00,680
Speaker 2: the moment was just try to change the s, because

2269
01:55:00,720 --> 01:55:03,160
Speaker 2: you can't respond to these attacks with a clever messaging

2270
01:55:03,160 --> 01:55:06,560
Speaker 2: strategy or targeted ad, you have to respond with a

2271
01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:11,080
Speaker 2: completely different narrative and different world view. You see, the

2272
01:55:11,120 --> 01:55:14,080
Speaker 2: reason these attacks on transgender people have any resonance whatsoever

2273
01:55:14,240 --> 01:55:17,760
Speaker 2: is because they do fit into Trump's narrative, his story

2274
01:55:17,800 --> 01:55:21,040
Speaker 2: of the world. In that story, immigrants and cultural elites

2275
01:55:21,040 --> 01:55:24,360
Speaker 2: are destroying your communities, your way of life. Democrats are

2276
01:55:24,360 --> 01:55:27,560
Speaker 2: in league with those cultural elites who are ideologically driven

2277
01:55:27,600 --> 01:55:31,280
Speaker 2: by weird cultural fixations like transing your kids, letting homeless

2278
01:55:31,280 --> 01:55:34,160
Speaker 2: people shoot up in your driveway. If the Democrats don't

2279
01:55:34,200 --> 01:55:37,760
Speaker 2: offer a different narrative to compete with that worldview, then

2280
01:55:37,840 --> 01:55:41,400
Speaker 2: they will end up hopelessly caught in the trap that

2281
01:55:41,440 --> 01:55:45,120
Speaker 2: the Republicans laid, just as the Kamala Harris campaign was.

2282
01:55:45,680 --> 01:55:45,760
Speaker 5: So.

2283
01:55:45,800 --> 01:55:48,640
Speaker 2: If you don't respond, then you let those ugly lives

2284
01:55:48,640 --> 01:55:51,480
Speaker 2: spread and you let them define you with no response.

2285
01:55:52,040 --> 01:55:54,240
Speaker 2: If you do respond with a counter argument, then you

2286
01:55:54,280 --> 01:55:56,360
Speaker 2: give life to their narrative that you care more about

2287
01:55:56,360 --> 01:55:59,160
Speaker 2: trans girls and sports than you do about working class issues.

2288
01:55:59,720 --> 01:56:03,000
Speaker 2: And if you respond with capitulation by, for example, opposing

2289
01:56:03,040 --> 01:56:06,720
Speaker 2: transgirls in sports, then you lend credence to the Trumpian

2290
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:10,400
Speaker 2: narrative that transgender issues are central and that transgender people

2291
01:56:10,520 --> 01:56:14,000
Speaker 2: should not enjoy equal rights. After all, if both parties

2292
01:56:14,040 --> 01:56:16,200
Speaker 2: are in agreement that transgender people are a real problem,

2293
01:56:16,240 --> 01:56:19,440
Speaker 2: then it must be the case. Right This third approach

2294
01:56:19,520 --> 01:56:21,000
Speaker 2: is the worst of the lot, in my opinion, is

2295
01:56:21,080 --> 01:56:23,800
Speaker 2: proven by the Biden Harris response to a similarly difficult

2296
01:56:23,840 --> 01:56:27,440
Speaker 2: and likely more potent issue of immigration. Democrats thought they

2297
01:56:27,440 --> 01:56:32,000
Speaker 2: were so clever embracing border hawkishness, abandoning a pathway to citizenship,

2298
01:56:32,040 --> 01:56:35,240
Speaker 2: and their previous defense of the character and benefit of migrants.

2299
01:56:35,680 --> 01:56:38,400
Speaker 2: Comma Crode about how Trump blocked their efforts to be

2300
01:56:38,480 --> 01:56:42,680
Speaker 2: aggressive border hawks. This approach ultimately was a complete disaster.

2301
01:56:43,200 --> 01:56:45,600
Speaker 2: It only served to help shift the public right on

2302
01:56:45,640 --> 01:56:49,040
Speaker 2: the issue and to provide the Trumpian narrative that immigrants

2303
01:56:49,040 --> 01:56:53,120
Speaker 2: were bad and a massive problem for the country. More credence, capitulation,

2304
01:56:53,360 --> 01:56:57,440
Speaker 2: and acceptance of right wing narratives only fuels those narratives.

2305
01:56:57,840 --> 01:57:00,000
Speaker 2: The only way on of this trap is to offer

2306
01:57:00,120 --> 01:57:03,720
Speaker 2: for a broad counter narrative that is more compelling than

2307
01:57:03,760 --> 01:57:06,360
Speaker 2: the Trumpian story of the world, because it is not,

2308
01:57:06,400 --> 01:57:08,640
Speaker 2: in fact immigrants and cultural elites who are screwing you.

2309
01:57:08,720 --> 01:57:12,200
Speaker 2: It's economic elites. It's the plutocrats who rigged the political system,

2310
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:15,440
Speaker 2: bought the media, hogged all of the economic gains. Those

2311
01:57:15,480 --> 01:57:19,120
Speaker 2: plutocrats and their political puppets love to use wedge issues

2312
01:57:19,160 --> 01:57:21,880
Speaker 2: on vulnerable groups like migrants and trans people to break

2313
01:57:21,920 --> 01:57:25,200
Speaker 2: the working class apart, because a unified working class is

2314
01:57:25,200 --> 01:57:29,960
Speaker 2: their greatest nightmare. And that is exactly what Trump Nancy

2315
01:57:30,000 --> 01:57:33,560
Speaker 2: mace elon musk at all. That's what they're up to now.

2316
01:57:33,600 --> 01:57:37,879
Speaker 2: To my great shock, a Democratic representative, Jim McGovern actually

2317
01:57:37,880 --> 01:57:40,720
Speaker 2: did a solid job of articulating this message.

2318
01:57:40,800 --> 01:57:44,040
Speaker 14: The truth is that this is not what people voted for.

2319
01:57:45,000 --> 01:57:48,080
Speaker 14: They voted for their pocketbooks, and frankly, I don't blame them.

2320
01:57:48,680 --> 01:57:51,960
Speaker 14: You know who I do blame. I blame the billionaires

2321
01:57:51,960 --> 01:57:54,280
Speaker 14: who have rigged our country against working people and spent

2322
01:57:54,320 --> 01:57:57,680
Speaker 14: the last four decades squeezing every penny they could out

2323
01:57:57,680 --> 01:58:01,520
Speaker 14: of people. I blame the politicians, including the incoming administration,

2324
01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:07,000
Speaker 14: who have abandoned workers and who have done nothing while

2325
01:58:07,040 --> 01:58:10,680
Speaker 14: the rich get richer and everyone else gets screwed. My

2326
01:58:10,760 --> 01:58:13,320
Speaker 14: friends on the other side, they want to blame trans people.

2327
01:58:13,720 --> 01:58:16,760
Speaker 14: Guess what. Trans people aren't the ones raising people's grocery

2328
01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:21,560
Speaker 14: prices big corporations are. They want to blame immigrants. And

2329
01:58:21,640 --> 01:58:25,280
Speaker 14: here's the deal. Immigrants aren't the ones denying health insurance claims,

2330
01:58:25,360 --> 01:58:28,640
Speaker 14: mister speaker. It's the billion dollar insurance companies that do

2331
01:58:28,760 --> 01:58:32,040
Speaker 14: that on a daily basis, and they want to blame

2332
01:58:32,240 --> 01:58:37,280
Speaker 14: woke this and woke that. What's woke about thinking special

2333
01:58:37,360 --> 01:58:41,360
Speaker 14: interests should not be able to buy tax breaks. What's

2334
01:58:41,400 --> 01:58:45,160
Speaker 14: woke about telling Chevron and Exxon that they can't dump

2335
01:58:45,400 --> 01:58:49,360
Speaker 14: toxic chemicals into our air and water? What's woke about

2336
01:58:49,360 --> 01:58:52,400
Speaker 14: thinking it's wrong to give tax breaks to billionaires while

2337
01:58:52,440 --> 01:58:56,080
Speaker 14: the rest of us get screwed. It is time for

2338
01:58:56,200 --> 01:58:59,720
Speaker 14: us to get serious about fixing this country and making

2339
01:58:59,760 --> 01:59:03,879
Speaker 14: sure it works for everyone. And instead, we have bs

2340
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:06,760
Speaker 14: bills that allow the new administration to go after any

2341
01:59:06,800 --> 01:59:09,760
Speaker 14: group who disagrees with the government and shut them down

2342
01:59:10,960 --> 01:59:13,360
Speaker 14: so my friends on the other side can keep doing

2343
01:59:13,400 --> 01:59:16,040
Speaker 14: whatever the hell this is. Good luck with that.

2344
01:59:16,640 --> 01:59:18,640
Speaker 2: Sounds like Bernie there, and I'm certainly here for it.

2345
01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:21,320
Speaker 2: But with this narrative frame, fighting back becomes a lot

2346
01:59:21,360 --> 01:59:23,800
Speaker 2: easier because voters are then primed to understand these attacks

2347
01:59:23,840 --> 01:59:25,960
Speaker 2: on trans people. It's just part of a distraction tactic

2348
01:59:25,960 --> 01:59:29,160
Speaker 2: to hog more gains up for the rich. AOC also

2349
01:59:29,240 --> 01:59:32,560
Speaker 2: actually handed Mace's provocations pretty well. She flipped the script

2350
01:59:32,640 --> 01:59:34,840
Speaker 2: on the claim that Mace was protecting women and girls

2351
01:59:34,920 --> 01:59:37,120
Speaker 2: and also pointed out on Nancy Mace was clearly just

2352
01:59:37,160 --> 01:59:39,200
Speaker 2: shamelessly grifting for fundraising dollars.

2353
01:59:39,520 --> 01:59:42,680
Speaker 19: What Nancy Mayce and what Speaker Johnson are doing are

2354
01:59:42,760 --> 01:59:46,880
Speaker 19: endangering all women and girls because if you ask them

2355
01:59:47,360 --> 01:59:50,160
Speaker 19: what is your plan on how to enforce this, they

2356
01:59:50,200 --> 01:59:53,120
Speaker 19: won't come up with an answer. And what it inevitably

2357
01:59:53,160 --> 01:59:56,800
Speaker 19: results in are women and girls who are primed for

2358
01:59:56,960 --> 01:59:59,480
Speaker 19: assault because they want because people are gonna want to

2359
01:59:59,560 --> 02:00:03,160
Speaker 19: check their private parts in suspecting who is trans and

2360
02:00:03,200 --> 02:00:06,200
Speaker 19: who assists and who's doing what. And so the idea

2361
02:00:06,560 --> 02:00:10,400
Speaker 19: that Nancy Mace wants little girls and women to drop

2362
02:00:10,480 --> 02:00:13,320
Speaker 19: trout in front of who an investigator, who would that

2363
02:00:13,360 --> 02:00:16,760
Speaker 19: be in order because she wants to suspect and point

2364
02:00:16,800 --> 02:00:19,920
Speaker 19: fingers at who she thinks is trans is disgusting. It

2365
02:00:19,960 --> 02:00:23,400
Speaker 19: is disgusting, and frankly, all it does is allow these

2366
02:00:23,440 --> 02:00:26,840
Speaker 19: Republicans to go around and bully any woman who isn't

2367
02:00:26,840 --> 02:00:29,920
Speaker 19: wearing a skirt because they think she might not look

2368
02:00:29,960 --> 02:00:33,480
Speaker 19: woman enough. People have a right to express themselves, to

2369
02:00:33,560 --> 02:00:35,760
Speaker 19: dress how they want and to be who they are.

2370
02:00:36,040 --> 02:00:38,680
Speaker 19: And if a woman doesn't look woman enough to a Republican,

2371
02:00:39,000 --> 02:00:41,120
Speaker 19: they want to be able to inspect her genitals to

2372
02:00:41,200 --> 02:00:45,240
Speaker 19: use a bathroom. It's disgusting and everybody, no matter how

2373
02:00:45,320 --> 02:00:48,360
Speaker 19: you feel on this issue, should reject it completely.

2374
02:00:48,800 --> 02:00:49,480
Speaker 2: What are they doing.

2375
02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:51,600
Speaker 19: They're doing this so that Nancy Mace can make a

2376
02:00:51,600 --> 02:00:54,400
Speaker 19: buck and send a text and fundraise off an email.

2377
02:00:54,560 --> 02:00:57,320
Speaker 19: They're not doing this to protect people. They're endangering women.

2378
02:00:57,440 --> 02:01:01,440
Speaker 19: They're endangering girls of all kinds. Everybody should reject it.

2379
02:01:01,440 --> 02:01:04,400
Speaker 2: It's gross. Now, this is definitely way more effective than

2380
02:01:04,400 --> 02:01:06,960
Speaker 2: the duck and cover or total capitulation strategies of the

2381
02:01:07,000 --> 02:01:11,839
Speaker 2: dumb Centrists. But until the party overall embraces a populous

2382
02:01:11,920 --> 02:01:14,640
Speaker 2: class war narrative, these sorts of attacks on trans people

2383
02:01:14,680 --> 02:01:16,600
Speaker 2: and migrants are going to have way more traction than

2384
02:01:16,640 --> 02:01:18,760
Speaker 2: they should. And of course it's not enough to just

2385
02:01:18,760 --> 02:01:21,040
Speaker 2: tell a good story either. You also got a deliver

2386
02:01:21,240 --> 02:01:24,320
Speaker 2: to add credibility to your narrative frame, because if voters

2387
02:01:24,360 --> 02:01:26,880
Speaker 2: feel like you are actually delivering for them personally in

2388
02:01:26,880 --> 02:01:29,080
Speaker 2: a way that is tangible, that they can see and

2389
02:01:29,120 --> 02:01:32,240
Speaker 2: feel there'll be a lot more forgiving of cultural issues

2390
02:01:32,280 --> 02:01:35,400
Speaker 2: where inevitably there's going to be some disagreement. Bernie is

2391
02:01:35,400 --> 02:01:37,680
Speaker 2: the perfect example of this approach. He was further left

2392
02:01:37,720 --> 02:01:40,560
Speaker 2: than common on virtually every issue, yet pretty impervious to

2393
02:01:40,600 --> 02:01:43,120
Speaker 2: the attack that he does not care about working class issues.

2394
02:01:43,360 --> 02:01:46,440
Speaker 2: He has endless credibility from his years of work, bolstered

2395
02:01:46,480 --> 02:01:49,400
Speaker 2: by a narrative frame in which the millionaires and billionaires

2396
02:01:49,480 --> 02:01:52,640
Speaker 2: use issues like trans kids in sports to divide people

2397
02:01:52,720 --> 02:01:56,360
Speaker 2: up and maintain their power. Andy Basheer, twice s elected

2398
02:01:56,360 --> 02:02:00,240
Speaker 2: Democratic governor of Kentucky, offers another really powerful example of

2399
02:02:00,280 --> 02:02:03,640
Speaker 2: this approach. He defeated a Trumpian businessman back in twenty

2400
02:02:03,720 --> 02:02:07,320
Speaker 2: nineteen by running a populist campaign centered around defending public

2401
02:02:07,400 --> 02:02:10,760
Speaker 2: education amidst a mass teacher strike, fighting for union jobs,

2402
02:02:10,800 --> 02:02:14,040
Speaker 2: and affordable healthcare. In office, he is really delivered. He

2403
02:02:14,080 --> 02:02:16,920
Speaker 2: brought significant investments into the state from the auto industry

2404
02:02:16,920 --> 02:02:20,520
Speaker 2: in particular and high paying union jobs, and he's communicated

2405
02:02:20,640 --> 02:02:22,880
Speaker 2: constantly with the public about what he was up to

2406
02:02:23,000 --> 02:02:25,240
Speaker 2: and why it was he was doing it. In a

2407
02:02:25,280 --> 02:02:27,720
Speaker 2: recent New York Times op ed, Governor Basheer wrote about

2408
02:02:27,760 --> 02:02:30,000
Speaker 2: how he was able to get re elected even after

2409
02:02:30,360 --> 02:02:33,160
Speaker 2: making some decisions and cultural issues that pulled as extremely

2410
02:02:33,240 --> 02:02:37,280
Speaker 2: unpopular in his conservative state. Quote. As governor, I have

2411
02:02:37,400 --> 02:02:41,680
Speaker 2: vetoed numerous anti LGBTQ and anti choice bills, yet I

2412
02:02:41,720 --> 02:02:45,040
Speaker 2: still beat mister Trump's hand pick candidate last fall. That

2413
02:02:45,160 --> 02:02:48,440
Speaker 2: happened because even if some voters might have disagreed with

2414
02:02:48,440 --> 02:02:50,680
Speaker 2: the vetos, they knew the next day I would be

2415
02:02:50,680 --> 02:02:54,200
Speaker 2: announcing new jobs, opening a new health clinic, or finishing

2416
02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:57,000
Speaker 2: a new road that would cut twenty minutes off their commute.

2417
02:02:57,160 --> 02:03:00,000
Speaker 2: They knew my focus and effort was on their daily needs,

2418
02:03:00,320 --> 02:03:02,879
Speaker 2: and that our gains as a commonwealth would help every

2419
02:03:02,920 --> 02:03:05,600
Speaker 2: single one of our families. He goes on to say

2420
02:03:05,600 --> 02:03:08,360
Speaker 2: of his decision to veto anti trans bills, quote, I

2421
02:03:08,440 --> 02:03:11,160
Speaker 2: believe all children are children of God. And whether people

2422
02:03:11,240 --> 02:03:14,480
Speaker 2: agree with my decision, they know why I'm making it,

2423
02:03:14,640 --> 02:03:16,520
Speaker 2: they know where I am coming from.

2424
02:03:16,960 --> 02:03:17,120
Speaker 5: Now.

2425
02:03:17,200 --> 02:03:19,920
Speaker 2: Republicans, they're feeling very confident right now, but they are

2426
02:03:19,960 --> 02:03:24,080
Speaker 2: also in grave danger of overreach. After all, here Nancy

2427
02:03:24,120 --> 02:03:28,160
Speaker 2: Mace is, after just getting reelected, focusing on what happens

2428
02:03:28,160 --> 02:03:30,760
Speaker 2: in a single bathroom in the US capital rather than

2429
02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:34,080
Speaker 2: the issues that her constituents presumably sent her to Washington

2430
02:03:34,120 --> 02:03:37,440
Speaker 2: to fight for She literally posted about this. Now it's

2431
02:03:37,520 --> 02:03:40,080
Speaker 2: up to more than two hundred times about the single

2432
02:03:40,120 --> 02:03:44,560
Speaker 2: person's theoretical use of this bathroom wild stuff. It would

2433
02:03:44,600 --> 02:03:46,680
Speaker 2: not be hard at all for Democrats to point out

2434
02:03:46,880 --> 02:03:49,480
Speaker 2: the dirty game of distraction that Republicans are playing. In fact,

2435
02:03:49,640 --> 02:03:52,920
Speaker 2: congress Woman Electromcbride herself is doing her version of that,

2436
02:03:53,160 --> 02:03:55,600
Speaker 2: putting on a statement saying quote, I'm not here to

2437
02:03:55,600 --> 02:03:58,440
Speaker 2: fight about bathrooms. I'm here to fight for Delawareans and

2438
02:03:58,480 --> 02:04:02,240
Speaker 2: to bring down costs facing families. When Democrats really prove

2439
02:04:02,320 --> 02:04:05,080
Speaker 2: that by ditching the big money donors and rebuilding the

2440
02:04:05,120 --> 02:04:08,840
Speaker 2: party as a working class party, it will be manifestly

2441
02:04:09,000 --> 02:04:11,640
Speaker 2: self evident to all that the Nancy Maces of the

2442
02:04:11,640 --> 02:04:15,800
Speaker 2: world are nothing more than shameless, self promoting enforcers of

2443
02:04:15,840 --> 02:04:20,080
Speaker 2: the status quo. And Emily Nancy may seizing the moment here,

2444
02:04:20,240 --> 02:04:22,920
Speaker 2: you know, she seeson opening you had after the election.

2445
02:04:23,040 --> 02:04:25,280
Speaker 2: You had a couple of Democratic Congressmen immediately come out

2446
02:04:25,320 --> 02:04:27,960
Speaker 2: and be like, I oppose trans girls in sports. There's

2447
02:04:27,960 --> 02:04:30,800
Speaker 2: been a lot of discussion about this particular ad, and

2448
02:04:30,840 --> 02:04:32,600
Speaker 2: I do think Democrats are kind of caught in a

2449
02:04:32,640 --> 02:04:36,839
Speaker 2: bind because they don't have a narrative worldview that would

2450
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:39,680
Speaker 2: retrain people from you know, Trump's got his villains and

2451
02:04:39,840 --> 02:04:42,600
Speaker 2: you know, cultural elites and downstream from that, transgender people

2452
02:04:42,640 --> 02:04:45,160
Speaker 2: are part of that narrative. You have to offer a

2453
02:04:45,240 --> 02:04:48,560
Speaker 2: compelling counter narrative and back that up with credibility that

2454
02:04:48,600 --> 02:04:50,800
Speaker 2: you actually are fighting for working class people, You're not

2455
02:04:50,920 --> 02:04:53,880
Speaker 2: just doing you know, lip service to it.

2456
02:04:54,240 --> 02:04:55,840
Speaker 1: You know, I have an interesting theory about this, and

2457
02:04:55,840 --> 02:04:57,640
Speaker 1: we talked. We did a whole you guys have me

2458
02:04:57,680 --> 02:05:01,000
Speaker 1: on KKF. We did a whole episode on this debate. Yes,

2459
02:05:01,080 --> 02:05:04,640
Speaker 1: like eighteen months ago something like that. But one thing

2460
02:05:04,680 --> 02:05:07,600
Speaker 1: I think Democrats have to reckon with is that Pew

2461
02:05:07,800 --> 02:05:11,600
Speaker 1: research has found the highest opposition to the question of

2462
02:05:11,640 --> 02:05:14,800
Speaker 1: this is the specific question that people have asked that

2463
02:05:15,160 --> 02:05:17,520
Speaker 1: Pugh asked. I want to make sure the wording is

2464
02:05:17,560 --> 02:05:20,160
Speaker 1: exactly right. Whether a person is a man or a

2465
02:05:20,160 --> 02:05:22,320
Speaker 1: woman quote can be different from sex assigned at birth.

2466
02:05:22,400 --> 02:05:25,120
Speaker 1: Quote is determined by sex assigned at birth. It actually

2467
02:05:25,120 --> 02:05:29,320
Speaker 1: goes up the lower your education level is, So that's

2468
02:05:29,440 --> 02:05:33,880
Speaker 1: roughly approxy for income. So people who are lower socioeconomic

2469
02:05:33,920 --> 02:05:37,680
Speaker 1: ranks tend to be less in agreement with the sort

2470
02:05:37,680 --> 02:05:41,560
Speaker 1: of AOC position on sex and gender. And that's something

2471
02:05:41,640 --> 02:05:44,760
Speaker 1: I think is really really an obstacle because it's not

2472
02:05:44,880 --> 02:05:47,400
Speaker 1: that this is the number one issue people are going

2473
02:05:47,400 --> 02:05:48,920
Speaker 1: to the polls and voting for. I think it's a

2474
02:05:49,000 --> 02:05:51,880
Speaker 1: question of trust that if you are fundamentally telling them.

2475
02:05:51,920 --> 02:05:54,280
Speaker 1: Andy Basheer has been the key's handled this. He's such

2476
02:05:54,280 --> 02:05:56,440
Speaker 1: a good example. This is Andy Bisheer year ago he said,

2477
02:05:56,440 --> 02:05:58,919
Speaker 1: my position this has always been clear. I've never supported

2478
02:05:58,920 --> 02:06:02,040
Speaker 1: gender reassignment surgery and they don't happen in Kentucky. But

2479
02:06:02,400 --> 02:06:04,080
Speaker 1: he's also been willing to make the case that you

2480
02:06:04,240 --> 02:06:07,440
Speaker 1: just outlined, which is a path forward for Democrats because

2481
02:06:07,720 --> 02:06:10,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't give in to this problem of trust, which

2482
02:06:10,600 --> 02:06:13,200
Speaker 1: is if you are telling people that what they are

2483
02:06:13,240 --> 02:06:16,160
Speaker 1: seeing they're not seeing that. You know, if you're telling

2484
02:06:16,200 --> 02:06:20,360
Speaker 1: them that there's this like very complicated academic theory about

2485
02:06:20,400 --> 02:06:24,800
Speaker 1: the gender binary and fluidity, and that these sports teams

2486
02:06:24,880 --> 02:06:27,600
Speaker 1: like it's it's really no different. You might be able

2487
02:06:27,600 --> 02:06:30,680
Speaker 1: to defend the position of having like the sports question

2488
02:06:31,080 --> 02:06:32,600
Speaker 1: from the left, You might be able to do that,

2489
02:06:32,760 --> 02:06:34,840
Speaker 1: but you can't tell people is that they're wrong to

2490
02:06:34,840 --> 02:06:37,560
Speaker 1: see differences between men and women. And if your position

2491
02:06:38,040 --> 02:06:40,560
Speaker 1: is predicated on that, I just think you lose trust

2492
02:06:40,600 --> 02:06:43,120
Speaker 1: with voters. It's hard to sell industrial policy when voters

2493
02:06:43,160 --> 02:06:45,640
Speaker 1: are being told that they're or what voters know that

2494
02:06:45,680 --> 02:06:48,280
Speaker 1: you think maybe they're big at it because they're seeing

2495
02:06:48,280 --> 02:06:48,880
Speaker 1: what they're seeing.

2496
02:06:48,920 --> 02:06:51,360
Speaker 2: But here's the thing, Emily, is that Trump supports all

2497
02:06:51,440 --> 02:06:54,160
Speaker 2: kinds of unpopular shit, like nothing is more unpopular in

2498
02:06:54,200 --> 02:06:58,120
Speaker 2: America than abortion band with no exceptions, and which is

2499
02:06:58,160 --> 02:07:01,000
Speaker 2: why he shifted what did he put on his ticket?

2500
02:07:01,480 --> 02:07:05,400
Speaker 2: Jade Vance who support very clearly abortion band with no

2501
02:07:05,520 --> 02:07:07,440
Speaker 2: restriction but had to walk it back, had to walk

2502
02:07:07,480 --> 02:07:09,280
Speaker 2: it back. But Kama didn't talk about any of this

2503
02:07:09,360 --> 02:07:14,080
Speaker 2: in her campaign, But so what did I mean? Not really?

2504
02:07:14,240 --> 02:07:16,720
Speaker 2: Like she literally didn't say the word transgender here. There's

2505
02:07:16,760 --> 02:07:19,440
Speaker 2: a reason they had to pull clips from twenty twenty.

2506
02:07:19,760 --> 02:07:22,280
Speaker 2: So why is Trump able to get away with holding

2507
02:07:22,720 --> 02:07:28,160
Speaker 2: incredibly unpopular positions in certain instances and the Democrats aren't.

2508
02:07:28,400 --> 02:07:31,120
Speaker 2: Why is Bernie Sanders able to get away with holding

2509
02:07:31,320 --> 02:07:33,680
Speaker 2: this same position, if anything, being to the left of

2510
02:07:33,720 --> 02:07:37,320
Speaker 2: Kamala on social cultural issues and she's not. And it's

2511
02:07:37,360 --> 02:07:40,680
Speaker 2: because people buying large like they don't really like the

2512
02:07:40,720 --> 02:07:43,760
Speaker 2: sports team. Thing is they don't really care. Even Trump said, like,

2513
02:07:43,760 --> 02:07:46,160
Speaker 2: no one actually brings this up to me, right because

2514
02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:48,320
Speaker 2: it's such a friend it applies to so few kids,

2515
02:07:48,320 --> 02:07:50,760
Speaker 2: like it doesn't impact your life whatever. What they do

2516
02:07:50,880 --> 02:07:53,600
Speaker 2: care about is the sense that you're more focused on

2517
02:07:53,640 --> 02:07:55,840
Speaker 2: these niche things than you are about me. And that

2518
02:07:55,920 --> 02:07:57,920
Speaker 2: ties into like, you know, the conversation we're having about

2519
02:07:57,960 --> 02:08:00,560
Speaker 2: the war two, Like you are more focused on these things.

2520
02:08:00,800 --> 02:08:04,160
Speaker 2: And so if you don't have number one, the credibility

2521
02:08:04,360 --> 02:08:07,560
Speaker 2: where you've actually delivered for people where they can see like,

2522
02:08:07,640 --> 02:08:10,160
Speaker 2: oh no, no, it's preposterous to say that Bernie Sanders

2523
02:08:10,280 --> 02:08:12,760
Speaker 2: or Andy Basheer is more obsessed with these issues than

2524
02:08:12,760 --> 02:08:14,920
Speaker 2: they are with like delivering for me and my family.

2525
02:08:15,400 --> 02:08:17,880
Speaker 2: If you don't have that credibility, and if you also

2526
02:08:18,160 --> 02:08:22,080
Speaker 2: don't have the narrative frame of guys, this issue is

2527
02:08:22,240 --> 02:08:25,000
Speaker 2: not core to you and your family. This is just

2528
02:08:25,040 --> 02:08:27,800
Speaker 2: a distraction. And you know, we're focusing on these issues

2529
02:08:27,800 --> 02:08:30,040
Speaker 2: that unite people that are going to deliver broadly for

2530
02:08:30,160 --> 02:08:32,919
Speaker 2: you know, working class people across the board, then yeah,

2531
02:08:33,000 --> 02:08:35,280
Speaker 2: you're going to end up in a very difficult position.

2532
02:08:35,840 --> 02:08:38,040
Speaker 2: And so you know, I think that's where Democrats find

2533
02:08:38,040 --> 02:08:42,000
Speaker 2: themselves is they have lost all credibility that they actually

2534
02:08:42,080 --> 02:08:44,120
Speaker 2: are willing to stand up to the donor class, that

2535
02:08:44,160 --> 02:08:46,680
Speaker 2: they actually have, you know, a narrative view of the

2536
02:08:46,720 --> 02:08:49,720
Speaker 2: world that points fingers out a villain does not transgender

2537
02:08:49,760 --> 02:08:53,400
Speaker 2: people and is not immigrants. Ultimately, they haven't laid out that,

2538
02:08:54,040 --> 02:08:56,040
Speaker 2: the neoliberal wing of the party hasn't laid out their

2539
02:08:56,080 --> 02:08:59,400
Speaker 2: critique and has lost their credibility on delivering. So then

2540
02:08:59,440 --> 02:09:01,680
Speaker 2: these issues where they're at odds with some of the

2541
02:09:01,720 --> 02:09:05,520
Speaker 2: people that are trying to win over become absolutely more significant.

2542
02:09:05,560 --> 02:09:07,120
Speaker 1: One thing I think is interesting in that they them

2543
02:09:07,160 --> 02:09:10,880
Speaker 1: add is Sam Britton and Rachel Levine and that it

2544
02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:12,720
Speaker 1: wasn't you know, Kama Harrison didn't have to talk about

2545
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:16,400
Speaker 1: we are this administration appointed Rachel Levine and Sam Britton

2546
02:09:16,440 --> 02:09:18,400
Speaker 1: to these high but she didn't do that, She didn't

2547
02:09:18,440 --> 02:09:21,080
Speaker 1: tout it. It wasn't like her run in twenty nineteen

2548
02:09:21,160 --> 02:09:23,000
Speaker 1: or twenty twenty. But I think people just look at

2549
02:09:23,000 --> 02:09:25,520
Speaker 1: that and actually, to the point you were making, Republicans

2550
02:09:25,800 --> 02:09:29,080
Speaker 1: have weirdly turned this. I shouldn't say weirdly, but if

2551
02:09:29,160 --> 02:09:30,880
Speaker 1: you had predicted this twenty years ago, and like, what

2552
02:09:30,880 --> 02:09:33,600
Speaker 1: the hell have turned it into a class issue by

2553
02:09:33,640 --> 02:09:35,320
Speaker 1: saying like, this is what the elites are trying to

2554
02:09:35,360 --> 02:09:38,240
Speaker 1: tell you is normal, and Republicans in a way have

2555
02:09:38,440 --> 02:09:42,160
Speaker 1: realized that before Democrats, which is entirely surprising because of

2556
02:09:42,160 --> 02:09:44,920
Speaker 1: the way shifts are happening, but like it is ultimately

2557
02:09:45,040 --> 02:09:48,040
Speaker 1: the reason this resonates is from that class framework. And

2558
02:09:48,080 --> 02:09:51,120
Speaker 1: that's to your point, something that Democrats can use that

2559
02:09:51,160 --> 02:09:53,960
Speaker 1: framework like to actually wrote about it. One ndred percent agree.

2560
02:09:54,080 --> 02:09:56,640
Speaker 2: You know, even Joe Biden is a good example because

2561
02:09:56,880 --> 02:09:59,840
Speaker 2: that twenty twenty campaign was way more woke than like

2562
02:10:00,120 --> 02:10:03,200
Speaker 2: wokeness was at its peak around like the twenty twenty danc.

2563
02:10:03,520 --> 02:10:05,120
Speaker 2: If you go back and look at that, you will

2564
02:10:05,120 --> 02:10:07,920
Speaker 2: think you're in like a fever dream of another world, right,

2565
02:10:08,480 --> 02:10:13,000
Speaker 2: And yet Joe Biden in that atmosphere is able to win.

2566
02:10:13,840 --> 02:10:16,600
Speaker 2: And I think part of why is even though, like

2567
02:10:16,720 --> 02:10:18,880
Speaker 2: you know, Joe Biden's track record is very corporate friendly

2568
02:10:18,920 --> 02:10:23,360
Speaker 2: whatever whatever, he had this image and this credibility of

2569
02:10:23,400 --> 02:10:26,720
Speaker 2: being middle class Joe from Stagrim, and people felt like

2570
02:10:26,760 --> 02:10:28,600
Speaker 2: they could trust that he was kind of, you know,

2571
02:10:28,680 --> 02:10:31,960
Speaker 2: looking out for the average Joe and Jane. And so

2572
02:10:32,080 --> 02:10:34,880
Speaker 2: even though there's all this like stuff, you know, swirling around.

2573
02:10:35,200 --> 02:10:37,400
Speaker 2: I always Wrent Elizabeth Warren with the Black Lives Matter

2574
02:10:37,440 --> 02:10:41,240
Speaker 2: blocks behind or all this things like the most ridiculous

2575
02:10:41,240 --> 02:10:45,760
Speaker 2: performative wokeness you could possibly imagine. And the Democratic primary

2576
02:10:45,880 --> 02:10:48,240
Speaker 2: just happened where Kamlin everybody else was saying things like

2577
02:10:48,280 --> 02:10:49,320
Speaker 2: what is on camera there?

2578
02:10:49,800 --> 02:10:51,320
Speaker 4: That wasn't a problem for him.

2579
02:10:51,360 --> 02:10:54,200
Speaker 2: He was able to win on a pro immigrant and

2580
02:10:54,360 --> 02:10:58,720
Speaker 2: pro trans message because there was a sense of like, Okay,

2581
02:10:58,760 --> 02:11:00,960
Speaker 2: but I you know, I trust this that his core

2582
02:11:01,000 --> 02:11:04,520
Speaker 2: priority isn't that stuff, it's it's actually delivering. And also,

2583
02:11:04,560 --> 02:11:06,720
Speaker 2: by the way, we're really sick of this guy, Donald Trump,

2584
02:11:06,720 --> 02:11:08,520
Speaker 2: who was just like a kas machine over here, and

2585
02:11:08,600 --> 02:11:11,440
Speaker 2: let's do something different. So even though Joe Biden isn't

2586
02:11:11,480 --> 02:11:13,120
Speaker 2: my model of like what they should be doing in

2587
02:11:13,120 --> 02:11:15,640
Speaker 2: the future, right you need a much more clear cut

2588
02:11:16,120 --> 02:11:20,800
Speaker 2: populist class war messages that names villain purchased the donor class,

2589
02:11:20,800 --> 02:11:22,920
Speaker 2: like these things have to happen if Democratic Party is

2590
02:11:22,960 --> 02:11:25,600
Speaker 2: going to build back credibility. I even think in Joe

2591
02:11:25,640 --> 02:11:27,320
Speaker 2: Biden you can see a little bit of a model

2592
02:11:27,360 --> 02:11:30,080
Speaker 2: of how this was able to be successful in the past.

2593
02:11:30,160 --> 02:11:32,960
Speaker 2: And you know, I've pointed out with Bernie a bunch

2594
02:11:33,040 --> 02:11:35,520
Speaker 2: of times. What I just think it's really worth reminding

2595
02:11:36,000 --> 02:11:38,400
Speaker 2: that Bernie's is left on these issues as you can

2596
02:11:38,600 --> 02:11:41,240
Speaker 2: get like, no one would question his credentials there.

2597
02:11:41,520 --> 02:11:43,760
Speaker 4: And who was he strongest with young men?

2598
02:11:44,400 --> 02:11:47,160
Speaker 2: Right the famous bros that were all smeared as being

2599
02:11:47,200 --> 02:11:49,680
Speaker 2: sexist and racist, blah blah blah for supporting Bernie Sanders,

2600
02:11:49,920 --> 02:11:53,640
Speaker 2: the bros. He was very popular with Latinos. He overperformed

2601
02:11:53,960 --> 02:11:56,600
Speaker 2: and famously, you know, wins Nevada And that's like dismissed

2602
02:11:56,600 --> 02:11:58,840
Speaker 2: as who cares about that because it's not, you know,

2603
02:11:58,880 --> 02:12:01,080
Speaker 2: it's not the demographic room that we've decided is going

2604
02:12:01,120 --> 02:12:04,320
Speaker 2: to be most consequential in this election and in general

2605
02:12:04,360 --> 02:12:07,400
Speaker 2: with working class people. This map has been shared around

2606
02:12:07,440 --> 02:12:10,160
Speaker 2: recently a lot on Twitter. I don't know if you've

2607
02:12:10,160 --> 02:12:12,280
Speaker 2: seen it. Back from the twenty twenty primary, the New

2608
02:12:12,360 --> 02:12:15,480
Speaker 2: York Times put together a map of which candidates in

2609
02:12:15,520 --> 02:12:19,080
Speaker 2: the Democratic primary were getting the most grassroots donations from

2610
02:12:19,120 --> 02:12:22,920
Speaker 2: different places in the country, and the whole map was

2611
02:12:22,960 --> 02:12:27,240
Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders. They had to make a separate map, taking

2612
02:12:27,280 --> 02:12:30,320
Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders out of the equation to show some of

2613
02:12:30,360 --> 02:12:32,720
Speaker 2: the detail of like okay, but these other candidates like

2614
02:12:32,800 --> 02:12:34,920
Speaker 2: they're a little bit out performing this or that place.

2615
02:12:35,200 --> 02:12:37,880
Speaker 2: That's how dominant he was. And it was obviously not

2616
02:12:38,000 --> 02:12:41,520
Speaker 2: high dollar donors. It was like Starbucks workers and Amazon

2617
02:12:41,720 --> 02:12:45,000
Speaker 2: workers and delivery drivers, like teachers were one of the

2618
02:12:45,040 --> 02:12:48,960
Speaker 2: major professions that were contributing to him. So he shows

2619
02:12:49,240 --> 02:12:53,040
Speaker 2: proves that, you know, yes, if you pulled his views

2620
02:12:53,120 --> 02:12:55,600
Speaker 2: on transgender issues with the population, you would get some

2621
02:12:55,680 --> 02:12:59,040
Speaker 2: results that were, you know, not favorable for him. But

2622
02:12:59,120 --> 02:13:02,200
Speaker 2: because he had some much credibility built up in such

2623
02:13:02,200 --> 02:13:05,800
Speaker 2: a clear narrative of the world, no one thought that

2624
02:13:05,840 --> 02:13:08,839
Speaker 2: he was going to be obsessed with trans bathroom issues

2625
02:13:09,120 --> 02:13:11,800
Speaker 2: once he got into the Congress. And you know, if

2626
02:13:12,040 --> 02:13:14,240
Speaker 2: Democrats are able, which is a big if and very

2627
02:13:14,280 --> 02:13:16,680
Speaker 2: unlikely to happen, but if they're able to turn it around,

2628
02:13:17,120 --> 02:13:19,600
Speaker 2: then Nancy Mace is putting herself in the party in

2629
02:13:19,600 --> 02:13:22,240
Speaker 2: a much more precarious position where it's like, oh, actually,

2630
02:13:22,240 --> 02:13:23,880
Speaker 2: you all are the ones that just ran thirty five

2631
02:13:23,880 --> 02:13:26,080
Speaker 2: million dollars on trans issues. You're the one who put

2632
02:13:26,080 --> 02:13:28,520
Speaker 2: out two hundred and fifty posts in thirty six hours

2633
02:13:28,640 --> 02:13:31,480
Speaker 2: or whatever about this bathroom You all are the ones

2634
02:13:31,480 --> 02:13:34,000
Speaker 2: that are actually obsessed with these issues and won't let

2635
02:13:34,040 --> 02:13:35,440
Speaker 2: people just live their lives.

2636
02:13:36,400 --> 02:13:38,680
Speaker 1: Just to return, very very briefly, the mo with the

2637
02:13:38,760 --> 02:13:42,000
Speaker 1: highest level of support for the position that sexis assigned

2638
02:13:42,000 --> 02:13:44,839
Speaker 1: at birth is Black Americans, Like they're just there's definitely

2639
02:13:44,880 --> 02:13:47,480
Speaker 1: a class disconnect, and I think that's I agree with you.

2640
02:13:47,640 --> 02:13:51,080
Speaker 1: Joe Biden went one black voters much more strongly in

2641
02:13:51,160 --> 02:13:54,760
Speaker 1: twenty twenty than Democrats did this time around. I think

2642
02:13:54,760 --> 02:13:56,480
Speaker 1: because he handles the issue differently.

2643
02:13:57,920 --> 02:14:00,000
Speaker 2: All Right, guys, well, thank you very much for watching

2644
02:14:00,040 --> 02:14:02,720
Speaker 2: in the show, and Emily's gonna be back next week

2645
02:14:02,800 --> 02:14:05,200
Speaker 2: for some great pre Thanksgiving content.

2646
02:14:04,960 --> 02:14:06,960
Speaker 1: Another five hour show sometime of them.

2647
02:14:07,200 --> 02:14:09,800
Speaker 2: Sometimes we do goofy like pre Thanksgiving, We'll do like

2648
02:14:09,840 --> 02:14:12,360
Speaker 2: the travel or like the cost of turkey or whatever.

2649
02:14:12,400 --> 02:14:14,760
Speaker 2: I'll come up with some cheesy, like morning show style

2650
02:14:14,880 --> 02:14:16,240
Speaker 2: content for us to do next week.

2651
02:14:16,320 --> 02:14:18,680
Speaker 1: Maybe we cook like we do Kathuli and Hodo with

2652
02:14:18,680 --> 02:14:22,720
Speaker 1: like glasses of white wine, and we make that something

2653
02:14:22,720 --> 02:14:27,200
Speaker 1: that like really upset Soger, like something that really really

2654
02:14:27,200 --> 02:14:28,120
Speaker 1: would get him going.

2655
02:14:28,240 --> 02:14:29,920
Speaker 2: I will have to brainstorm on that, but I like

2656
02:14:30,560 --> 02:14:32,840
Speaker 2: you right here. I like the vibe people have been like.

2657
02:14:32,960 --> 02:14:35,600
Speaker 2: I got a lot of a lot of appreciation for

2658
02:14:35,720 --> 02:14:39,600
Speaker 2: my various dressing up schemes on this show. Excellent Raygun

2659
02:14:39,760 --> 02:14:41,640
Speaker 2: and then putting on the Mega hub. People love that.

2660
02:14:41,760 --> 02:14:44,320
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, some people really love that, Crystal.

2661
02:14:44,520 --> 02:14:47,720
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but anyway, so it's making me lean into

2662
02:14:47,760 --> 02:14:49,960
Speaker 2: more of my camp side. So we will dream up

2663
02:14:49,960 --> 02:14:50,919
Speaker 2: something good for Thanksgiving.

2664
02:14:51,120 --> 02:14:55,680
Speaker 1: Love it, well, it's giving, Ryan Murphy, come on you.

2665
02:14:55,680 --> 02:14:58,800
Speaker 2: Can all right, guys, love you. I'll have a great weekend.

2666
02:14:58,800 --> 02:14:59,880
Speaker 2: We'll see you back here next week.

2667
02:15:00,720 --> 02:15:01,920
Speaker 12: The spot

2668
02:15:06,240 --> 02:15:07,680
Speaker 14: Would bish