Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. When I hear or see
Speaker 1: the word judge, I have a lot of mixed emotions.
Speaker 1: Several judges help me in contempt. Several judges made bad
Speaker 1: rulings that hurt my case. Several judges that I practiced
Speaker 1: in front, I've made horrible mistakes that ended up getting
Speaker 1: cases reversed. On the other hand, most judges I've ever
Speaker 1: encountered and or practiced before are some of the most
Speaker 1: decent and honorable people I've ever met. So exactly how
Speaker 1: does a Texas judge end up sentenced to the death penalty?
Speaker 1: I mean, see Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you
Speaker 1: for being with us here at Crime Stories and on
Speaker 1: Serious XM one eleven. Let's just start at the beginning.
Speaker 1: Take a listen to.
Speaker 2: This January thirty. First, a nine to one to one
Speaker 2: call comes in. The caller tells the operator that a
Speaker 2: man has been shot. Around nine am. Five shots were
Speaker 2: fired and seconds later three more shots were fired. Police
Speaker 2: arrived at the scene swiftly and find Chief Assistant District
Speaker 2: Attorney for the Kaufman County Criminal District Attorney's Office, Mark
Speaker 2: hassee bleeding. No traces were left at the crime scene,
Speaker 2: not even bullet casings the only evidence eyewitnesses. One witness
Speaker 2: said the shooter was completely dressed in black and after
Speaker 2: firing the shots, jumped into the back seat of a
Speaker 2: white sedan and disappeared. Another witness, according to medium dot Com,
Speaker 2: said he heard Hassee shotting loudly. No, no, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: Hasse dies.
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, I'm trying to drink in everything that I
Speaker 1: just heard. A prosecutor in the Kaufman County dish Attorney's
Speaker 1: office mark Hasse is dead. No traces left behind as
Speaker 1: to who the perp could be. The shooter observed by
Speaker 1: a witness clad totally in black, which says this was
Speaker 1: premeditated and the park dressed up like a ninja, and
Speaker 1: that Hasse pled for his life. That's what I know
Speaker 1: right now. Joining me in All Star panel, but first
Speaker 1: I want to go to special guests. Hayden Sparks joining us,
Speaker 1: senior reporter for The Texan and you can find Hayden
Speaker 1: at the Texan dot News. Hayden, thank you for being
Speaker 1: with us. Let's just start with Hesse's death. What can
Speaker 1: you tell me about it?
Speaker 3: I think you highlighted one of the most disturbing aspects
Speaker 3: of this case, and that is that he pled for
Speaker 3: his life before he died. This type of violence is
Speaker 3: something that one would expect a war torn country, not
Speaker 3: a peaceful community on abouts of Dallas. And I think
Speaker 3: the death of Mark is tragic.
Speaker 1: I know this much. Let me go to renowned medical
Speaker 1: examiner and pathologist, former detective with the Lexington County Sheriff's
Speaker 1: Department thru Us to the forefront of our media generation
Speaker 1: during the Alex Murdog double homicide case, author of money,
Speaker 1: mischief and murder, the Murdog saga. The rest of the story.
Speaker 1: I'm referring, of course, to doctor Michelle Duprie. You can
Speaker 1: find her at d Michelle dupremd dot com. I know this,
Speaker 1: doctor Duprix. I know that ballistics show that the victim,
Speaker 1: Mark Hasse, was shot with an assault rifle. Wow, well,
Speaker 1: can you tell me about assault rifles and what damage
Speaker 1: would that do to a human body.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's atrocious. Actually, assault rifles do a lot of
Speaker 4: damage because of high velocity and so it will literally
Speaker 4: leave holes, gaping holes in the body. And I haven't
Speaker 4: seen the autopsy report, but from what I have seen,
Speaker 4: he was shot multiple times.
Speaker 1: With this shot multiple times with an assault rifle. To
Speaker 1: Alan Bennett joining me, a former district attorney now civil
Speaker 1: attorney at Gunter Bennett and ANTHISGBA firm dot com. Alan,
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What is your experience
Speaker 1: with assault rifles and how are they different from let's
Speaker 1: just say twenty two or thirty eight.
Speaker 5: Well, and you're absolutely correct, Nancy. An assault rifle is
Speaker 5: generally thought of as its name implais, it is a
Speaker 5: rifle used to commit assaults. Typical examples will be an
Speaker 5: AR fifteen carried by our US military and AK forty
Speaker 5: seven carried by Soviet former Soviet block countries. They're generally
Speaker 5: regarded as military weapons used by members of a standing army,
Speaker 5: large capacity magazines, extremely high velocity bullets which do tremendous
Speaker 5: damage to the human body, primarily designed to be used
Speaker 5: on a battlefield.
Speaker 1: You know, I remember the first time I saw an
Speaker 1: assault weapon used. It was in a murder case. And
Speaker 1: what I especially remember about it is the defense attorney
Speaker 1: who later became a prosecutor, Paul Howard. His defense was
Speaker 1: transferred intent because who his defendant murdered was a little
Speaker 1: schoolboy named Moonbeam. His nickname played in the school band
Speaker 1: and was going home to his mom after school, and
Speaker 1: the defendants meant to shoot another drug dealer, but they
Speaker 1: shot this little kid instead, who in the end was
Speaker 1: crawling toward his home calling out for his mother. And
Speaker 1: I saw that weapon and held it in court. It
Speaker 1: was one of the ugliest I've ever seen. Looked like
Speaker 1: a machine gun, and it looked like it had been
Speaker 1: spray painted Matt black. That's what an assault rifle is like.
Speaker 1: It's pure evil, and that's what was used. Multiple rounds
Speaker 1: pumped into these victims. And when I say victims, that's right.
Speaker 1: The first victim was prosecutor Mark Hasse. And back to
Speaker 1: you again, Alan Bennett. When you prosecuted as I don't
Speaker 1: know if you went through this, but I did you
Speaker 1: get threats. You get death threats. I had my tire slash,
Speaker 1: my front door kicked in, my mailbox locked over, blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. But I think in the back of my mind,
Speaker 1: I never really thought that anyone was going to kill me.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I thought that after so many
Speaker 1: attacks on my car and my my house and threats,
Speaker 1: but I never really thought it would happen. What about you.
Speaker 5: I'm in that same boat, Nancy, and I think part
Speaker 5: of that is just our human conditioning to think, well,
Speaker 5: that's just so extreme, that is so rare. It's in
Speaker 5: that same mindset of thinking, well, that will never happen
Speaker 5: to me. That's something that only happens to other people.
Speaker 5: You only read about the news and the Unfortunately, from
Speaker 5: time to time we wake up one day and realize
Speaker 5: that we are those other people in the news and
Speaker 5: that it can happen to us. I think it's that
Speaker 5: false sense of security that we naturally assume just by
Speaker 5: the rarity of those actual instances.
Speaker 1: Well another thing too, Karen Start joining us renowned therapist
Speaker 1: psychologist joining us out of Manhattan. You've seen her on TV,
Speaker 1: on radio as a trauma expert and consultant. She's at
Speaker 1: Karenstart dot com. Karen, I think part of it is
Speaker 1: I don't know how you could live life at all
Speaker 1: if you are constantly afraid.
Speaker 6: Well, that's with out of doubt, Nancy, because anything could
Speaker 6: happen to anyone right at any moment. You could cross
Speaker 6: the streets people always use that example, and get hit
Speaker 6: by a car. It just doesn't seem like something that
Speaker 6: could possibly happen to anyone.
Speaker 1: Well I mentioned that Mark Hassey was the first victim.
Speaker 1: The story goes on. Take a listen.
Speaker 7: Just two months after Assistant District Attorney Mike Costs is
Speaker 7: gunned down, Kaufman County Criminal District Attorney Mike mcleland and
Speaker 7: his wife, Cynthia mcleland plan an Easter dinner for friends
Speaker 7: and family. Dallas Police Officer CJ. Tomlinson is a family friend.
Speaker 7: His mother is supposed to drop off vegetables for Cynthia
Speaker 7: mcleland to prepare for dinner. When she doesn't get the
Speaker 7: mclelland's on the phone, she asked her son, Tomlinson to
Speaker 7: check on the couple. Tomlinson and his stepfather go to
Speaker 7: the mcleland home. The front door is open, showcasing's are
Speaker 7: on the entryway floor. Mike and Cynthia Cleland both have
Speaker 7: been shot dead. One of the shots was directly into
Speaker 7: Cynthia mclelland's head. Tomlinson describes the scene as a home
Speaker 7: invasion style assault.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm trying to make sense of what I'm hearing.
Speaker 1: Mike and Cynthia McClelland also shot dead, with Cynthia McClelland
Speaker 1: being shot execution style in the center of the forehead.
Speaker 1: Again in their own homes. And this is Easter dinner
Speaker 1: for friends and family. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace back
Speaker 1: to Hayden Sparks joining us I investigative reporter with the
Speaker 1: Texan What happened to them?
Speaker 3: The husband and wife were in their home and joining dinner,
Speaker 3: and they had the piece of their home and faded
Speaker 3: by this individual and they were barbarically attacked as they
Speaker 3: enjoyed the privacy of their home.
Speaker 1: Now I understand they're getting ready for an Easter dinner
Speaker 1: and they've invited friends and family over a police officer.
Speaker 1: Of course, one of them must be a prosecutor, which.
Speaker 3: One Mike McClellan was a prosecutor with the Cofton County
Speaker 3: District Attorney's Office.
Speaker 1: So he and Hassei were both prosecutors. Okay, Mike McClellan,
Speaker 1: Assistant District Attorney and his wife Cynthia are preparing this
Speaker 1: Easter meal a Dallas County police officer, which explains why
Speaker 1: their friends with the cop because he's probably been a
Speaker 1: witness for them a million times. CJ. Thomlinson's a family
Speaker 1: friend and his mom is supposed to drop off veggies
Speaker 1: for the Easter dinner, but she can't get them on
Speaker 1: the phone, so she asked her son, the cop, to
Speaker 1: check in on them. The cop, Tomlinson, and a stepdad
Speaker 1: go over to the home when nobody answers and the
Speaker 1: front door is why open now? Right there? Phil Waters?
Speaker 1: Phil Water is joining me, former homicide detective for Houston PD,
Speaker 1: president's CEO of Kindred Spirits Investigations and Security. You can
Speaker 1: find to make Kindred Spirits Investigations dot com. Feil your
Speaker 1: former homicide detective. When I see an open door on
Speaker 1: somebody's home or apartment right now, I'm like, Okay, something's wrong,
Speaker 1: because that's been true in every case I've seen where
Speaker 1: the front door is wide open, well exactly.
Speaker 8: On homicide, we'd call that a clue. Right, So, yeah,
Speaker 8: when you see something that is not in its natural state,
Speaker 8: which the door being closed, for a police officer approaching
Speaker 8: a scene like that, certainly the spider sense is going
Speaker 8: to go off and they're going to enter that property
Speaker 8: with the expectation if they're going to find something that's
Speaker 8: going to be out of the norm.
Speaker 1: It also to me that the perp didn't care if
Speaker 1: people saw the front door open or he and statistically
Speaker 1: it's always a he left in a hurry, he didn't
Speaker 1: bother to shut the door behind them. The floor strown
Speaker 1: with shells. It was described as a home invasion. Front
Speaker 1: door opened, shellcasing all over the entryway door, which tells
Speaker 1: me that Purp started shooting the moment he came in
Speaker 1: to you again. Doctor Michelle Dupree the author of another book,
Speaker 1: Homicide Investigation Field Guy. She literally wrote the book on
Speaker 1: homicide investigations. What does this tell you? That one of
Speaker 1: the shots was directly into the forehead of the prosecutor's wife,
Speaker 1: Cynthia McClelland, Nancy.
Speaker 4: That's a statement that is execution style, and I'm obviously intentional.
Speaker 4: So she was a target just like her husband.
Speaker 1: Execution style. When you say execution style, doctor dupre explain
Speaker 1: that interpret that for everyone.
Speaker 4: Well, basically, you know, there is something a lot of
Speaker 4: people call the T zone, which is in your forehead
Speaker 4: if you make it too straight down your forehead into
Speaker 4: your nose where if a gunshot is in that area,
Speaker 4: it is most likely to be fatal. And usually there
Speaker 4: is a couple of shots to the chest and wanted
Speaker 4: a head in order to make sure that that person
Speaker 4: is actually dead, and so that would be execution style.
Speaker 1: Joining me right now is a special guest, and I
Speaker 1: want to start questioning Early Wiley out of Texas as well,
Speaker 1: with a very narrow line of questioning. Early Wily, thank
Speaker 1: you for being with us or bank you nancon Early?
Speaker 1: Did you know these three victims, Mike McClellan, Cynthy McClellan
Speaker 1: and Mark.
Speaker 9: Absolutely. Kaufman County is a small community, so sure, and
Speaker 9: particularly ten years ago, everyone knows each other, particularly you
Speaker 9: work at the courthouse together. You know, from your background experience,
Speaker 9: you get to know the players. You see him every
Speaker 9: day and you work with them as a prosecutor. And
Speaker 9: then at the time I.
Speaker 1: Was a judge, are you still called judge Wiley?
Speaker 9: I am. I think it's, you know, one of those
Speaker 9: we don't like titles in our country. But I retired
Speaker 9: from the bench when I became the elected district attorney
Speaker 9: because Mike wasn't an Ada, he was the elected prosecutor.
Speaker 1: I'm glaud you told me that because that is a
Speaker 1: very very important distinction, and not an assistant DA, the
Speaker 1: elected DA. Judge Wiley was a judge, always a judge.
Speaker 1: The other day. The other night, my daughter, he is
Speaker 1: so shy, as a football manager at her high school,
Speaker 1: and they had a banquet. And I went to the banquet,
Speaker 1: of course, and at a distance I saw someone I
Speaker 1: thought I recognized him, And after the banquet, I went
Speaker 1: up to him and it was a judge I had
Speaker 1: tried many many cases before when I first became a prosecutor,
Speaker 1: and I naturally referred to him as judge, Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1: Another thing that you mentioned is the I guess, for
Speaker 1: lack of a better word, camaraderie that you form with
Speaker 1: people in the courthouse, the clerks, the judges, the court reporters,
Speaker 1: the prosecutors, even the defense attorneys in a weird hybrid way,
Speaker 1: because you were really in the trenches and you were
Speaker 1: together in very very difficult combat duty. Every day. Every
Speaker 1: day there are murderers, rapists, child molesters, drug lords walking
Speaker 1: by you in the hall, chain together, I hope. Wandering
Speaker 1: the courthouse, there are everybody's got a gun on them,
Speaker 1: and you're trying cases that break your heart, investigating them,
Speaker 1: doing the legal research, making arguments, feeling your stomach clinch
Speaker 1: when you get a question from the jury. I mean,
Speaker 1: you go through so much together, it's like really beating
Speaker 1: the foxhole together. Right.
Speaker 9: I would agree with that. I think your descriptors are
Speaker 9: so accurate because, like you said, you know, I would
Speaker 9: always tell my young prosecutors, Hey, when you go in
Speaker 9: a room, you own it. So you make sure, because
Speaker 9: we always sit by the jury box, that you make
Speaker 9: good eye contact with that reporter. She's going to tell
Speaker 9: you if you're going too fast and the judge doesn't,
Speaker 9: she's going to tell you how you're doing. She's looking
Speaker 9: at the jury. But you own that space that you
Speaker 9: do work with everyone you work with the clerks. First
Speaker 9: lesson I ever learned when I was a Dallas prosecutor.
Speaker 9: Don't tick off a clerk.
Speaker 1: Oh no, they'll make your life h E double l
Speaker 1: If you are rude or arrogant to a clerk, first
Speaker 1: of all, why would you be. They're working really long,
Speaker 1: horrible hours at roy and I would say that, believe
Speaker 1: it or not. My best friends of all these years
Speaker 1: have been a defense attorney, female defense attorney, and a
Speaker 1: court reporter that tra We tried cases together for years,
Speaker 1: and of course my investigator Eizabeth all the time.
Speaker 9: Oh my gosh, we couldn't do it with that then, no,
Speaker 9: no way.
Speaker 1: I mean, the bond do you have with these people,
Speaker 1: so you know these people might Cynthia McClellan and Mark
Speaker 1: hasse right.
Speaker 9: Of course we were. We had been entertained at at
Speaker 9: the McClellan's house because he's elected. I was elected judge
Speaker 9: at Christmas party. Mark was in my office the night
Speaker 9: before in chambers because we were working late with our
Speaker 9: treatment cort and he came by and so we all,
Speaker 9: of course knew each other. It wasn't as casual because
Speaker 9: I was a judge. You keep a little bit of difference,
Speaker 9: but we still knew each other. And if you were
Speaker 9: there late, you walk each other out, because me and
Speaker 9: my coordinator that ran the after hours treatment court program
Speaker 9: were there and he was talking to her and that
Speaker 9: he walked out, went his way, and I had a
Speaker 9: closer parking because I was a judge.
Speaker 1: You know, people also don't get it. Your hours are insane.
Speaker 1: How I'd be at the courthouse on weekends, late, late,
Speaker 1: late at night, and you sometimes I had it all
Speaker 1: to myself, but usually there'd be somebody else, an investigator,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the assistants, wandering around and when
Speaker 1: you said there's a big difference between an assistant district attorney,
Speaker 1: which what I was, and the elected district attorney. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember my boss, Lewis Slayton. He
Speaker 1: was then the longest serving district attorney in the US
Speaker 1: thirty seven years. He's like a grandfather to me.
Speaker 9: Wow.
Speaker 1: And he allowed me to become a trial lawyer, which
Speaker 1: has always been my life until I had the twins. Guys,
Speaker 1: you were hearing Judge Early Wiley, who let me just
Speaker 1: say and I let her explain the whole thing to you,
Speaker 1: came that close to having a bullet in her forehead too.
Speaker 1: So we now have three murder victims, all connected to
Speaker 1: the district Attorney's office, and nobody knows what the hey
Speaker 1: is going on. But now that you've got two DA's,
Speaker 1: what cases were they working together? Why those two das?
Speaker 1: Why not another assistant DA? Well, they got a break.
Speaker 1: They got a break because of home security surveillance. Take
Speaker 1: a listen to our reporter Sidney Sumner from Crime Online.
Speaker 2: Then came a break.
Speaker 1: An acquaintance of Eric Williams.
Speaker 2: Said that a few months ago he had been asked
Speaker 2: to rent a garage in his name. Police find the
Speaker 2: white sedan in the garage, as well as police uniforms, badges, weapons,
Speaker 2: and even homie napalm. There were also more than thirty guns,
Speaker 2: but there was no weapon matching the one that shot
Speaker 2: the victims. And there was still one question to be answered.
Speaker 2: If the suspect jumped into the back seat to speed
Speaker 2: away from the crime scene, who was driving?
Speaker 1: So that bit the white sedan, the jumping into the
Speaker 1: backseat of a car and speeding away, somebody had to
Speaker 1: be driving. Man, And then this an acquaintance on Eric
Speaker 1: Williams said a few months before he had been asked
Speaker 1: to rent a garage in his name. In that garage,
Speaker 1: they find a white sedan and now they're onto it.
Speaker 1: Think Chevy Avalanche in the Rex Huerman case, remember the
Speaker 1: Long Island serial killer suspect. Chevy Avalanches haven't been made
Speaker 1: since twenty thirteen. So these women were meeting up with
Speaker 1: a guy in a Chevy Avalanche. What does he have
Speaker 1: partly down in front of his house? A Chevy Avalanche. Hello,
Speaker 1: now you've got a white sedan speeding away from the
Speaker 1: McClellan's home. And now you find a white sedan in
Speaker 1: a garage with police uniforms, badges. Where are they getting
Speaker 1: that police uniforms? And I've got one badge, the badge
Speaker 1: I was given when I was sworn in an assistant
Speaker 1: district attorney, police uniforms, badges, weapons, homemade napalm? Phil Waters,
Speaker 1: Why would anybody have homemade napalm? I haven't heard that
Speaker 1: since we talked about Vietnam.
Speaker 8: Yeah, exactly. I can't imagine other than this is a person,
Speaker 8: you know, the badges and so forth. I'm not that
Speaker 8: that surprised me. And some of that. I think he
Speaker 8: had body armor and some other law enforcement related equipment
Speaker 8: in there. And I don't find that terribly strange.
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupree, What the hey is napalm? Explain? And
Speaker 1: a nutshell? I nutshell name.
Speaker 4: Palm is a very powerful explosive. It is used mostly
Speaker 4: by the military. You can make it at home if
Speaker 4: you know the recipe, but it is very devastating.
Speaker 1: What does it do to you? If it gets on
Speaker 1: your body or your eyes, it.
Speaker 4: Actually burns, It burns off the skin, it burns off,
Speaker 4: it can basically it can basically kill you.
Speaker 1: What I associate with napalm is the napalm girl that
Speaker 1: horrible and iconic photo of a nine year old girl
Speaker 1: running away after a napalm bomb struck her village all
Speaker 1: the way back in gene of nineteen seventy two. Fifty
Speaker 1: years later, she had her final round of treatment for
Speaker 1: pain and scars she suffered that day, Phil Waters, I
Speaker 1: heard you saying something about nay. Palm is known as.
Speaker 8: What jelly gasoline. It's either petrol or diesel, and when
Speaker 8: the mixture is put and applied, it sticks to the
Speaker 8: skin and the purpose of it, the jelly part of
Speaker 8: it is to stick to the skin and it burns
Speaker 8: all the way to the bone.
Speaker 10: So it's a devastating So who in the hay would
Speaker 10: have homemade napalm in a storage unit or a rented spot?
Speaker 1: So now we know a name, Eric Williams. Who's that Listen?
Speaker 2: Eric Williams seemed to be the all American boy. He
Speaker 2: grew up in azl, Texas. He was a boy scout,
Speaker 2: played in a band, and graduated from Texas Christian University,
Speaker 2: where he was in the Reserves Officers Training Corps ROTC.
Speaker 2: He met and married Kim. She was raised in Dallas,
Speaker 2: did college coursework at the Southern Methodist University and at
Speaker 2: the University of Texas at Arlington. They were a couple
Speaker 2: for more than fifteen years.
Speaker 1: Sounds like the all American Golden Boy, but then things
Speaker 1: went sideways. Listen.
Speaker 11: Eric Williams studied and passed the bar. He works as
Speaker 11: a lawyer for the Kaufman City Court Department and Justice
Speaker 11: of the Piece for Kaufman County. That is until he
Speaker 11: was caught on surveillance cameras stealing three computer monitors with
Speaker 11: a value around six hundred dollars. His rest takes place
Speaker 11: in his office as a public servant. He is charged
Speaker 11: with a felony, handcuffed and marched down in front of
Speaker 11: his coworkers. Williams claims it's all a misunderstanding. He says
Speaker 11: he bypasses standard ordering protocol, but says the monitors were
Speaker 11: for office use, not personal. But police find one of
Speaker 11: the monitors stashed in his truck.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, I'm not understanding what happened. Judge early whiley
Speaker 1: joining us out of Texas and author of an incredible book,
Speaker 1: Target on My Back, A Prosecutor's terrifying Tale of life
Speaker 1: on a hit list, tell me about these monitors there?
Speaker 9: Okay, there were computer monitors that were stored in an
Speaker 9: area at the courthouse that the Justice of the Peace
Speaker 9: worked at. And like the rest of us that work
Speaker 9: in any company or the government, when you want new equipment,
Speaker 9: you know, there's a whole process. I just don't go, oh,
Speaker 9: let me grab some of those and I'll take those home.
Speaker 9: And I don't do that in the you know, after
Speaker 9: hours without getting whatever you would call it a requisition
Speaker 9: order something in writing. I mean, this is government county
Speaker 9: property and our tax dollars. So the value is more
Speaker 9: than six hundred. It was over fifteen hundred because it
Speaker 9: was a third degree felony at the time in Texas
Speaker 9: ten years ago, and so he took the monitors that
Speaker 9: not the irony was there had been missing items before,
Speaker 9: and then then sheriffs set up monitors cameras so that
Speaker 9: they could see who was taking the items. Unfortunately, I
Speaker 9: believe they thought it was the cleaning crew that was
Speaker 9: taken in after hours.
Speaker 4: And what do they.
Speaker 9: Find the it the morning when they right after they
Speaker 9: had placed the camera, they actually find out that the
Speaker 9: JP with there's a picture that a lot of people
Speaker 9: have seen on camera of him, a grainy picture walking
Speaker 9: around after hours secreting items where he didn't know the
Speaker 9: new cameras were posted, and so he was caught on
Speaker 9: videos stealing county equipment after hours. And yet he said,
Speaker 9: because when you're someone like the murderer, you think you
Speaker 9: can do no wrong. So if you want computers, you
Speaker 9: just take them. If you are a JP, you can
Speaker 9: take what you want, set it up the way you want.
Speaker 9: And if somebody accuses you of something, don't believe you're
Speaker 9: lion eyes. That was who he.
Speaker 1: Was, Justice of the piece. And to think this is
Speaker 1: all about three computer monitors, Well, how do these victims
Speaker 1: Mark hassee Cynthia McClellan, Mike McClellan fit into Eric Williams
Speaker 1: swiping monitors? And when she says JP, Justice of the Peace,
Speaker 1: you think, right, why would he steal computer monitors? But
Speaker 1: that's not the end of the story. Listen.
Speaker 7: The prosecutor in William's case, Assistant District Attorney Mark Hoss,
Speaker 7: offers him a deal plead guilty to misdemeanor and abuse
Speaker 7: of office. Williams would have to resign as Justice of
Speaker 7: the Peace, but he would be allowed to keep his
Speaker 7: law license. Williams counters with an offer to make restitution
Speaker 7: but not admit guilt. The District attorney's office refuses. If
Speaker 7: Williams is found guilty of a felony, he loses his
Speaker 7: law license, his job, benefits everything. Eric Williams decides to
Speaker 7: fight the charges, but before his trial starts, more charges
Speaker 7: are brought against william for supplies he bought and built
Speaker 7: to the law library he manages. None of the supplies
Speaker 7: and equipment he bought were found in the office. The
Speaker 7: jury deliberates four hours in William's theft trial and delivers
Speaker 7: a guilty verdict. Instead of being sentenced to jail, Williams
Speaker 7: is placed on two years probation.
Speaker 1: So that is how the whole thing started. Hayden Sparks.
Speaker 1: What Hayden Sparks is joining me senior investigative reporter for
Speaker 1: the Texan. So this all starts over three computer monitors
Speaker 1: that he swipes, or he's caught swiping. Maybe he swiped
Speaker 1: other stuff, but he gets prosecuted for stealing them. He
Speaker 1: even takes it to a jury trial, he's put on probation.
Speaker 1: Does he lose his position? Hayden Sparks.
Speaker 3: I believe he was suspended and it is astonishing that
Speaker 3: all of this started with something as trivial as computer.
Speaker 1: Monitors trying to figure out O all this goes down
Speaker 1: over theft in the courthouse Time Stories with Nancy Grace
Speaker 1: to judge Early Wiley joining us, author of Target on
Speaker 1: My Back, A prosecutor's terrifying tale of life on a
Speaker 1: hit list. So tell me he insisted on taking it
Speaker 1: to a jury trial? Did he lose his position as
Speaker 1: just as the peace.
Speaker 9: He did the Texas Judicial Conduct Commission. I believe neck
Speaker 9: quickly once there was a conviction, because obviously he appealed
Speaker 9: that conviction, and there's a timeline there that we would
Speaker 9: have to go back and recall, because shortly after that appeal,
Speaker 9: I think it's when the murder start. That's not what
Speaker 9: you specifically ask me. You specifically ask me. Did the
Speaker 9: commission suspend him? Yes, and they removed him.
Speaker 1: Oh so it's not just over getting the probation. He loses,
Speaker 1: Karen Starr, you're the shrink. He loses the trappings of
Speaker 1: being a judge. That's a lot.
Speaker 6: Well, But Nancy, if you are someone who's a psychopath
Speaker 6: and someone does that to you, something like that happens
Speaker 6: to you and you lose your identity, you lose everything
Speaker 6: that all the perks that's gone along with that, you
Speaker 6: are going to be insanely angry and want revenge. That's
Speaker 6: the kind of thing that happens to a person who
Speaker 6: is not normal, who doesn't care about the consequences of
Speaker 6: his actions.
Speaker 1: Let me ask the judge, judge early whiley, it's not
Speaker 1: just getting probation. It's not just the cost of the trial.
Speaker 12: It's losing your position, your position as JP as judge,
Speaker 12: respected of the community, special seats, preferential treatment.
Speaker 1: That's losing your identity for a lot of judges or prosecutors.
Speaker 9: Nancy, you're spot on, and I think the doctor's right.
Speaker 9: For a person that has the mindset that they can
Speaker 9: they're ever powerful and whatever they do, they can do
Speaker 9: whatever they want to do. That's what he thought. For
Speaker 9: those that worked with Eric, you didn't always see that
Speaker 9: side of him, because you've got to remember he was
Speaker 9: part of us. This is from the inside. But there's
Speaker 9: that other piece, like you said, just computer equipment, no
Speaker 9: losing his position, and the fact that his colleagues are
Speaker 9: the ones that said, you know, the communities, it's not
Speaker 9: going to let an unelected official take this equipment.
Speaker 1: No way, no way, you know how you're up on
Speaker 1: a pedestal as a judge Trump and when you do
Speaker 1: something that's the price of being a judge or a prosecutor.
Speaker 1: People look at you and if you screw up, oh,
Speaker 1: you become You become the escapegoat, You become the trophy.
Speaker 1: You will not get away with it once people are
Speaker 1: onto you because you're held to a higher standard, and
Speaker 1: you should be. You're a passing judgment. You're judging other people,
Speaker 1: so you darn well better be above reproach. So how
Speaker 1: are these people connected? Listen to Nicole partner in our
Speaker 1: cut six.
Speaker 7: Mark Coss and Mike mcleland acted as prosecutors in Eric
Speaker 7: Williams case, which put him on police radar. When officers
Speaker 7: checked his Internet search history, they found that Williams I'd
Speaker 7: been actively searching for information on Mark Hoss and Mike mcleland.
Speaker 7: Documents were found on a white Sedan issued in a
Speaker 7: false name, and the login and password for an account
Speaker 7: which had been leaving anonymous messages for police about the
Speaker 7: murders was found, but there was not enough evidence to
Speaker 7: charge him with the murders.
Speaker 1: Judge Wilie, how did you end up on a hit list?
Speaker 9: Nancy. I had dealt with Eric before he was a
Speaker 9: Justice of the peace. When he was in private practice
Speaker 9: as a defense attorney. Eric did counting work doing child
Speaker 9: protective services attorney at Lytam representing children. Hit all the
Speaker 9: trappings of this guy. That was great, that did the
Speaker 9: work for the children. But what we found out later,
Speaker 9: and I was asked by the administrative judge to check
Speaker 9: in to an issue, was that there was some overbilling
Speaker 9: that the auditor when they crossed checked the billing that
Speaker 9: was being turned in by some attorneys, that it didn't
Speaker 9: add up. So my work in Dallas as a former
Speaker 9: prosecutor was to do some CPS work, which is trial
Speaker 9: protective services work involving children that are abused and neglected.
Speaker 9: So I was familiar with the time it would take,
Speaker 9: and so what I did is I took that task on.
Speaker 9: An administrative judge asked, it's quite simple, Frankly, my coordinator.
Speaker 9: We pulled random files from several different attorneys, and of
Speaker 9: course we pulled the docket sheets where the judge said
Speaker 9: how long the hearings were, what the records were. It
Speaker 9: was an easy crosscheck. And what we found over and
Speaker 9: over again was that Eric Williams was stealing money from
Speaker 9: the county and over billing. So him, along with a
Speaker 9: few other attorneys I don't know, I thought because I.
Speaker 2: Was a judge.
Speaker 9: I brought them into my office, spoke to them individually
Speaker 9: and said, this is what we've determined, and I want
Speaker 9: you to stop. This is counting money. This is your warning.
Speaker 9: I'm not referring this to the DA's office, but this
Speaker 9: is something that I can see and I'm not going
Speaker 9: to have it. I will honestly tell you I never
Speaker 9: thought any more about that, because that's what you do.
Speaker 9: And if a judge calls you into their chambers and
Speaker 9: they set you down, you take it. The other two
Speaker 9: attorneys were apologetic. They told me it was their mistake,
Speaker 9: and I said, of course, no problem. I can't wait
Speaker 9: to continue to work with you. Eric Williams denied that
Speaker 9: he did it, but okay, that's fine. He left. He
Speaker 9: came back later told my coordinator, which is like the
Speaker 9: court secretary, you take me off that whill remember the
Speaker 9: guy that wants to help kids.
Speaker 1: He didn't want to do the work anymore because you
Speaker 1: busted him.
Speaker 9: Yes on, my secondary teld me that I go. I
Speaker 9: guess he never took an economics course call supplying to man,
Speaker 9: I'll just call attorneys and asked, I.
Speaker 1: Builded this work. Yeah, I mean in every courtroom, the
Speaker 1: court where you're having plea arrangments, there are a pews
Speaker 1: full of lawyers who want appointed cases where a person
Speaker 1: doesn't have a lawyer and the public defender's office is inundated,
Speaker 1: and you find a list of good lawyers that can
Speaker 1: take appointed cases for people that don't have lawyers. So yeah,
Speaker 1: if one falls out, there's one, there's ten in line
Speaker 1: for that appointed case. But how did you find out
Speaker 1: you were actually on a hit list for murder?
Speaker 9: I found out because the special prosecutor in the case.
Speaker 9: Once the case began, our office recused because then I
Speaker 9: was the elected DA. I was told by him. He
Speaker 9: came into my office, or Ski, one of the special prosecutors,
Speaker 9: and said to me to sit down. He wanted to
Speaker 9: tell me something, and they were preparing the case. By
Speaker 9: this time, Kim Williams had become a witness for the
Speaker 9: state and she shared with them that it was Eric's opinion,
Speaker 9: and she shared that but for me taking that work
Speaker 9: away from him, he wouldn't have been in the financial problem.
Speaker 9: But they had been fortunate enough for him to become
Speaker 9: a JP as a result of that, and for Eric,
Speaker 9: my calling him out was the beginning of the end
Speaker 9: of his successful career. Of course, total responsibility shift for
Speaker 9: his conduct. And then the JP business happened with the
Speaker 9: computer saft and then that's how this list got created,
Speaker 9: and there were others.
Speaker 1: What went through your mind when you realize this guy,
Speaker 1: a judge, a justice of the peace, had you on
Speaker 1: a hit list for murder.
Speaker 9: And someone I knew, Okay, I thought, my god, you know.
Speaker 9: And it's different because, as you guys have said, you've
Speaker 9: had threats, but you've actually seen and know this guy's
Speaker 9: kill people. By this time, he was in custody, but
Speaker 9: so many people. When I was appointed to be the
Speaker 9: elected when Mike was killed the year before I took
Speaker 9: that job.
Speaker 8: When there we didn't.
Speaker 9: Have a suspect in custody, and so in my mind's eye,
Speaker 9: I mean, I really knew at that point I could
Speaker 9: have been killed. My children who were home with me
Speaker 9: then could have been killed. They're adults now, and so
Speaker 9: it is chilling. You do things and you don't even
Speaker 9: think about it. Sometimes because I took the job, I
Speaker 9: was a judge, I had a different trajectory. I took
Speaker 9: that job because I was mad, because I grew up
Speaker 9: in Coffin. I people weren't just going to kill people
Speaker 9: in Kaufman. I mean, I'm not going to sit by
Speaker 9: and let that happen. So I just thought, Wow.
Speaker 1: You know another thing, Judge that gives me real insight
Speaker 1: to this judge Eric Williams mind is that once he's
Speaker 1: finally convicted on these murders, he's filed so many appeals.
Speaker 1: One claimed his quote brain was broken and that he
Speaker 1: needed an MRI that he didn't get for his first trial.
Speaker 1: But now that was denied by Judge Mike Snipes. Now
Speaker 1: take a list an hour cut eleven. His latest attempt
Speaker 1: at a new trial. I hope you're sitting down listen.
Speaker 11: In his latest attempt to get a new death penalty trial,
Speaker 11: attorneys for Eric Williams claim they didn't have enough time
Speaker 11: to prepare for the trial that led to his conviction.
Speaker 11: The Daily Morning News reports that Williams attorneys claim in
Speaker 11: a one hundred and sixty nine page filing that there
Speaker 11: was so much evidence that they didn't have enough time
Speaker 11: to review and prepare for trial. The attorneys also claimed
Speaker 11: that Williams was tried before a bias judge and that
Speaker 11: having his trial in Rockwell County rather than Kaufman County
Speaker 11: had no effect on providing him with a fair trial.
Speaker 1: You know what, when I hear I didn't have enough
Speaker 1: time to prepare for trial, I say something along the
Speaker 1: lines of you started. You should have started preparing for
Speaker 1: trial when you pull that trigger.
Speaker 9: I like that line.
Speaker 1: Like that, Yeah, feel free to use it. The moment
Speaker 1: you pull that trigger, you should have started preparing for
Speaker 1: your trial and your a death penalty sentence. Somehow he
Speaker 1: managed to rope his wife into it. In case you're
Speaker 1: wondering who the getaway driver was. If you have information
Speaker 1: on a judge turned killer, Eric Williams and his wife,
Speaker 1: Kim Williams, dial nine seven to two nine three two
Speaker 1: three zero nine four. Do I think his case is
Speaker 1: going to get reverse? No? Do I think he's going
Speaker 1: to get the death penalty?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 1: I do, But stranger things have happened. And if you
Speaker 1: have information, we need your help because when this comes
Speaker 1: to a new trial, if it ever does, we want
Speaker 1: to be locked and loaded. We wait as just as
Speaker 1: sun foughts. Good by, send