Speaker 1: Strap on your parachute. It's time for What Goes Up
Speaker 1: with Sarah Ponza and Mike Reagan. Hello and welcome to
Speaker 1: What goes Up at Bloomberg Weekly Markets Podcast. I'm Mike Reagan,
Speaker 1: a senior editor at Bloomberg. I'm Katie Greifeld, a reporter
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg, filling in for Sarah. Peck was off this week.
Speaker 1: So this week on the show, after a few weeks
Speaker 1: in which it seemed like the market was under the
Speaker 1: control of day traders and Robin Hood and Reddit, things
Speaker 1: seem like they're starting to get back to normal. We
Speaker 1: don't want to jinx it, but they're starting to seem
Speaker 1: like the market's getting back to normal. So we're gonna
Speaker 1: get back to talking about fundamentals, and this episode is
Speaker 1: going to be all about one of the most important
Speaker 1: elements of the stock market, which is dividends. Our guest
Speaker 1: is a portfolio manager who helps run a strategy that
Speaker 1: focuses on earning income from stocks with high dividends, and
Speaker 1: as always, will close out this episode with our tradition,
Speaker 1: the craziest thing I saw in markets this week, And remember,
Speaker 1: if you saw something crazy, give us a call on
Speaker 1: the What goes up hotline at six or six three
Speaker 1: two four three four nine zero, leave us a voicemail
Speaker 1: and maybe we'll play it on the show, and Katy
Speaker 1: before we get started. One programming note, Um, for some
Speaker 1: strange reason, there's a lot of interest among our listeners
Speaker 1: as to what my nickname in high school was. I
Speaker 1: let it slip that I had a couple of nicknames
Speaker 1: in high school, and I said, we had about a
Speaker 1: hundred and forty seven ratings on Apple Podcasts at the time.
Speaker 1: I said, if we get ten more, if we get
Speaker 1: to one fifty seven, I would reveal one of two nicknames. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the more flattering one would be revealed first, and if
Speaker 1: we got to two hundred, I'd reveal the really embarrassing nickname.
Speaker 1: Sure enough, the listeners have weighed in. We're now to
Speaker 1: about a hundred and sixty three ratings, a little more
Speaker 1: than I bargained for. So I do o listeners a nickname, however,
Speaker 1: uh with Sarah Off. Sarah insists that she'd be around
Speaker 1: when I for the big reveal for the for the
Speaker 1: big reveal of the nickname. So I hate to disappoint
Speaker 1: the listeners. Um, So I think you know what this
Speaker 1: means is that you're on the hook to cough up
Speaker 1: a nickname this week. You know, you really got my
Speaker 1: hopes up. I thought this was the big moment and
Speaker 1: it's not. I know, I know there's they're they're there's
Speaker 1: gonna be outrage among the listeners. But can you come
Speaker 1: on give them something? I know you must have had
Speaker 1: some some horsey nickname. I'm guessing in high school. No
Speaker 1: one called me horse girl. There's nothing like that. No,
Speaker 1: My nin name was really boring. I mean, my name
Speaker 1: is Katie Greifelt. They just called me KG because there's
Speaker 1: another Katie on the cross country team, so I had
Speaker 1: to differentiate somehow. Just KG. It's totally vanilla, like Kevin
Speaker 1: gart Like Kevin Garnett. That's pretty good. That's not a
Speaker 1: bad uh, not a bad namestake. All right, Well that's
Speaker 1: the best we can do for nicknames this week. But
Speaker 1: two to next week, and if you get us the two,
Speaker 1: you'll get the embarrassing nickname as well as the the
Speaker 1: flattering nickname. But let's get to our guest here and
Speaker 1: full disclosure. This week's guest is a is a very
Speaker 1: good friend of mine, also one of my favorite musicians. Uh.
Speaker 1: One of the best golfers I know, pretty much, one
Speaker 1: of the nicest guys all around I know, UM, But
Speaker 1: none of that is is the reason why he's on
Speaker 1: the show. He's on the show this week because he's
Speaker 1: also one of my favorite people to talk markets with.
Speaker 1: He is, as we mentioned at the intro there, he
Speaker 1: focuses on stocks with high dividends. UH runs an equity
Speaker 1: income strategy. UH. He's a partner and portfolio manager at
Speaker 1: Hamlin Capital Management UM, which is a firm that has
Speaker 1: about four point eight billion dollars under management in two
Speaker 1: main strategies, once a high yield municipal bond strategy and
Speaker 1: the other is a dividend equity strategy, which is where
Speaker 1: our guests comes in. He helps manage that strategy. His
Speaker 1: name is Chris Dagnus. Chris, welcome to this show. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much, Mike. UH. You've given me a lot to
Speaker 1: live up to there, so I'll do I'll do my best.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely all true, by the way, all true, all
Speaker 1: absolutely true. But Chris, I didn't want to start off
Speaker 1: getting you a little bit out of your wheelhouse and
Speaker 1: talking about some stocks that actually do not pay dividends,
Speaker 1: because I find this fascinating and I want to sound
Speaker 1: like an old man here a little bit, which I guess,
Speaker 1: you know, if if the shoe fits right. But you know,
Speaker 1: it used to be back in the day, if you
Speaker 1: were to become one of the biggest stocks in the
Speaker 1: country or in the world, you pretty much had to
Speaker 1: pay a dividend. I mean there were a few exceptions,
Speaker 1: especially in the dot com era, but you know, paying
Speaker 1: a dividend was was more or less expected of a mature,
Speaker 1: big mega cap company. Now these days, you know, you
Speaker 1: look at the biggest stocks in the SMP five hundred
Speaker 1: and okay, Apple, Microsoft the two biggest, they pay dividends,
Speaker 1: probably not at any yield that that would get you excite.
Speaker 1: But then after that you go, oh for five um,
Speaker 1: you know, with Amazon and alphabet Tesla uh and Facebook,
Speaker 1: not a dividend to be found. Berkshire Hathaway is up
Speaker 1: there too. I mean, that's sort of an outlier. Warren
Speaker 1: Buffett follows his own rules, and I guess one of
Speaker 1: them is he likes to cash dividend checks but not
Speaker 1: write them. But I'm just curious how as a dividend
Speaker 1: oriented investor you look at these big mega cap tech companies. Um,
Speaker 1: it seems to me like they almost are avoid They
Speaker 1: want to be sort of almost in sort of a
Speaker 1: sustained adolescents. You know, they don't want to give up
Speaker 1: that notion of being a growth company that's always reinvesting.
Speaker 1: But walk us through how you would look at companies
Speaker 1: like that. Isn't inevitable that the facebooks of the world,
Speaker 1: that the alphabets of the world will someday have to
Speaker 1: pay a dividend, do you think? Yeah? I think I
Speaker 1: think that's right, Mike, and and you brought up a
Speaker 1: couple of important points. They're one is that Apple inevitably
Speaker 1: and created its dividend in two thousand and ten, and
Speaker 1: Microsoft initiated its dividend in two thousand and three. And
Speaker 1: once a company gets to a point where it has
Speaker 1: a lot of free cash flow and maybe not as
Speaker 1: much to reinvest back into the business, maybe the opportunity
Speaker 1: set is is not as good. You eventually see that
Speaker 1: these these companies will will likely come around and started
Speaker 1: a dividend payment to shareholders. I would not be surprised
Speaker 1: to see that from Facebook or or Google or or
Speaker 1: some of the big ones. As long as they have
Speaker 1: that free cash flow and the wherewithal in capacity to
Speaker 1: to do it. What's interesting is that there's not much
Speaker 1: we're missing out on today. If you can believe it,
Speaker 1: four hundred and twenty of the five companies in the
Speaker 1: SMP actually pay a dividend. Now. Back in that number
Speaker 1: was as high as four hundred and sixty nine companies,
Speaker 1: and in two thousand and one it fell all the
Speaker 1: way to around three hundred and fifty companies. So the
Speaker 1: number of companies has actually been growing over to the
Speaker 1: last ten or twenty years of companies paying paying dividends.
Speaker 1: So I think we're getting back to it a little bit.
Speaker 1: And I think one thing you're gonna see is that
Speaker 1: the demographics of this country, we're aging as a country,
Speaker 1: and we need income. Seniors need income, retirees need income.
Speaker 1: It has gotten very difficult to find income anywhere. So
Speaker 1: why not have those big companies or demand from those
Speaker 1: big companies that they share some of the cash with
Speaker 1: their shareholders. I think you're gonna I think you're gonna
Speaker 1: see that, uh going forward. I think I think the
Speaker 1: demographics are going to really really require it and ask
Speaker 1: for it. Uh. And and just lastly, one one last point.
Speaker 1: You know, the way we think about it actually is
Speaker 1: that the dividend really imposes a lot of discipline on
Speaker 1: the company and the management team, and without it, you
Speaker 1: really can invest in just about about anything you want.
Speaker 1: But if you're committed to a dividend, if you've committed
Speaker 1: to your shareholders you're going to pay that dividend, well,
Speaker 1: you better deliver on it. And you know what, your
Speaker 1: shareholders are gonna want you to grow that dividend over time,
Speaker 1: and so you've got to really operate the business efficiently,
Speaker 1: make good decisions, make discipline decisions. You just can invest
Speaker 1: in everything. And I think that's a very important concept
Speaker 1: of why this strategy has worked over time. It's the
Speaker 1: governor on the capital allocation process. And eventually, maybe Amazon
Speaker 1: or Google or Tesla, especially maybe Tesla do something shareholders
Speaker 1: are not pleased with, and if they forced the management
Speaker 1: team to implement that dividend, it's gonna be harder for
Speaker 1: them to do that. So that would be that would
Speaker 1: be my my comment on all that. I would say,
Speaker 1: we don't feel we've missed out. There's been plenty of
Speaker 1: really exciting dividend stories out there and companies we've been
Speaker 1: able to own and tech has been a big part
Speaker 1: of that over the last five or ten years because
Speaker 1: a lot of the tech sector has initiated dividends. So
Speaker 1: to your point that you know, you there's actually a
Speaker 1: fair number of companies in the SMP five hundred that
Speaker 1: are paying dividends, it brings some mind. There's this really
Speaker 1: interesting note from Bank of America last week that looked
Speaker 1: at dividend yields in the SMP five hundred. They found
Speaker 1: that over sixt of stocks in the SMP hun five
Speaker 1: hundred have a higher dividend yield than current ten year
Speaker 1: treasury yields. And it might have shifted around a bit
Speaker 1: since then, but their point was that, you know, in
Speaker 1: this rising rate environment, this big reflation trade we're seeing,
Speaker 1: if the ten year reaches their year end target of
Speaker 1: one point seven five by the end of the year,
Speaker 1: then that would kind of diminish the appeal of stocks
Speaker 1: to some extent. And I wanted to hear your thoughts
Speaker 1: on that. You know, if if we truly are in
Speaker 1: a rising rate environment, what does that mean for your strategy?
Speaker 1: Is that a headwind? A lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: good questions in their Katie on the number of companies
Speaker 1: that yield more than than the tenure Mike made a
Speaker 1: funny joke about UM being a senior or an elder
Speaker 1: when we began this call. When when someone talks about
Speaker 1: a one point seven ten year treasury being too high,
Speaker 1: I really feel old. Uh that that that is that
Speaker 1: is not a big number in in my mind. UM,
Speaker 1: And it's it's hard to to recall, but the tenure
Speaker 1: treasury UH in the late nineties during the tech bubble
Speaker 1: was somewhere north of five percent, and the SNP yield
Speaker 1: at the time was one point five percent. In other words,
Speaker 1: it was fine with a much higher treasury yield. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's really all about future earnings growth and and dividend
Speaker 1: growth earning. You that that lower yield and what does
Speaker 1: that look like? Uh? Now you bring up a interesting
Speaker 1: uh point on you know, how does this strategy handle
Speaker 1: higher higher yields. Um. It it's really been a misnomer
Speaker 1: over time that dividend pang stocks don't like higher yields. Uh.
Speaker 1: There are certain groups within our universe, maybe more bond
Speaker 1: proxy like groups. Utilities and reats would be the obvious
Speaker 1: ones that over time have not performed as well. Maybe
Speaker 1: during a brief period of rates moving up, but actually
Speaker 1: we really want rates to go higher. We think it
Speaker 1: has been a huge headwind for our strategy. Um it
Speaker 1: has been a big tail wind for growth stocks with
Speaker 1: such a low rate environment. Higher higher rates generally mean
Speaker 1: better growth, more inflation, and dividend paying stocks. Companies that
Speaker 1: are paying out a dividend and want to grow that dividend,
Speaker 1: they want more inflation. They want to be able to
Speaker 1: raise prices on their products and service because then they
Speaker 1: can pass that through in the form of faster earnings growth,
Speaker 1: faster dividend growth. That's good. If they can't raise price
Speaker 1: on their product and service, then and they're trying to
Speaker 1: grow their dividend, you might see a payout ratio start
Speaker 1: to go up and the dividend gets called into question
Speaker 1: and the stock is under pressure. I think we've seen
Speaker 1: more of that over the last UH ten or fifteen
Speaker 1: years now because we've been in this low growth, low
Speaker 1: inflation environment, and that's just been really good for growth
Speaker 1: stocks because because valuations are getting pushed higher and higher.
Speaker 1: Low uh it seems like a strange concept, right. Low
Speaker 1: growth is great for growth, but when there is no
Speaker 1: growth out there, you really are going to pay anything
Speaker 1: for those growth companies that are showing any growth, and
Speaker 1: I think that's what's happening. I think you're seeing very
Speaker 1: high valuations on the great, big large growth companies, the
Speaker 1: Russell one thousand growth you know, those twenty five companies
Speaker 1: in the top twenty five of that index, they're nearly
Speaker 1: forty times earnings. I think they're around thirty nine times
Speaker 1: earnings on average right now. That's that seems to be
Speaker 1: fairly elevated. And I think I think rates going up
Speaker 1: might might pull that valuation back down, so we we
Speaker 1: would love it. We think it would probably level the
Speaker 1: playing field between growth and value a little bit if
Speaker 1: you saw a little more inflation and higher interest rates.
Speaker 1: You know, Chris, it's it's interesting every now. Then I'll
Speaker 1: just do a screen of stocks and I don't know
Speaker 1: either the Russell, say the Russell three thousand or the
Speaker 1: SMP five hundred, and just sort them by dividend yield,
Speaker 1: and it kind of reminds me. You know, my dad
Speaker 1: was in the insurance business and and he was uh
Speaker 1: claims guy early on it. He'd always tell stories about
Speaker 1: having to go out to the whatever the flood or
Speaker 1: a big fire or something blew up somewhere, And whenever
Speaker 1: you do the dividends screen like that, it reminds me
Speaker 1: of that because often that the highest yielders or some
Speaker 1: company something's going wrong, something, something's blowing up. UM. And
Speaker 1: especially last March last spring, in the middle of the
Speaker 1: covid UH craziness and the and the bear market. You know,
Speaker 1: I looked at sort of the highest dividends stocks in
Speaker 1: March of last year, and it's just eye popping some
Speaker 1: of the yields that were on offer at that time.
Speaker 1: But I'm curious how your approach fits in with that
Speaker 1: sort of mentality. Um. You know, picking out a really
Speaker 1: high dividends stock, say temper Center More is obviously risky
Speaker 1: but can be very rewarding. So so what's Hamlin's kind
Speaker 1: of approach for sorting out the disasters from stocks that
Speaker 1: have just been dumped, you know, baby with the water
Speaker 1: type of situation, Especially how you navigated UH last spring.
Speaker 1: I always can only imagine you were working around the
Speaker 1: clock trying to figure out, you know, some of these
Speaker 1: stocks with these humongous double digit yields, you know, what
Speaker 1: were the opportunities and what we're Can you talk to
Speaker 1: us a little bit about your process for sorting through uh,
Speaker 1: you know, high high paying stocks, especially at at a
Speaker 1: chaotic time like that like we saw about a year ago. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my last last March. I don't think I slept for
Speaker 1: three weeks straight and we probably talked during that period
Speaker 1: at some point. I'm sure. I'm sure I sounded like it. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So you what you've brought up is a is a concept,
Speaker 1: uh that we call a yield trap. You don't want
Speaker 1: to be stuck in a yield trap. Some call it
Speaker 1: a value trap. Yield trap is is worse. It's the
Speaker 1: same as a value trap, except you're getting paid while
Speaker 1: you're getting killed, so you feel better about it. But
Speaker 1: it's a problem. So there's that, and then of course
Speaker 1: there's the accidental high yielder, and the accidental high yielder
Speaker 1: you want to own because that yield will compress back
Speaker 1: over time and it's just being thrown out. So how
Speaker 1: do you find that accidental high yielder. There are very
Speaker 1: few episodes in one's career, like last March, where the
Speaker 1: SMP drops in three weeks or four weeks. In fact,
Speaker 1: it's it's never happened. That was the fastest beare market ever.
Speaker 1: So usually you have a lot of time to sift
Speaker 1: through UH and last year was was just different. March
Speaker 1: was just different than anything we've we've ever faced. But
Speaker 1: the process for selecting stocks that doesn't that doesn't change.
Speaker 1: You just have to go through it a little more
Speaker 1: quickly and be a little more active in terms of
Speaker 1: your conversations with companies and management teams and your colleagues
Speaker 1: and figuring it all loud. We we have a process
Speaker 1: to help us avoid the so called yield trap. So
Speaker 1: when we select a stop for this portfolio, we we
Speaker 1: do like a high yield. We we would call a
Speaker 1: high yield two times that of the SNP five, So
Speaker 1: that number moves around today, that's around three. You know,
Speaker 1: we'll look at anything one point five to jute times
Speaker 1: the yield of the SMP or higher. Um. We also
Speaker 1: want a company who is very much committed to dividend growth,
Speaker 1: so that's sort of our starting point. But then the
Speaker 1: key to this entire strategy is that the dividend is sustainable.
Speaker 1: This won't work if that dividend has to be cut.
Speaker 1: It's got to be sustainable and it has to be
Speaker 1: able to grow over time. So there were three really
Speaker 1: important factors we consider number sort of. Our third criteria
Speaker 1: is the bound sheet. You need to have a uh
Speaker 1: quality bound sheet. Low debt. Uh. We don't want too
Speaker 1: much leverage. The deadholders need to be paid before the
Speaker 1: equity holders, so you want to keep the debt at
Speaker 1: a manageable level. Are sort of fourth important criteria is
Speaker 1: cash flow coverage of the dividend. There should be enough
Speaker 1: free cash to pay that dividend and then some. And
Speaker 1: then the fifth thing we look for is a quality
Speaker 1: business and we look at returns on capital. There should
Speaker 1: be uh, you know, mid teams are higher returns on
Speaker 1: equity over over time. We think that defines a good business.
Speaker 1: So as long as that's all in place and that's there,
Speaker 1: you've got a really good starting point and really good
Speaker 1: framework we think to avoiding the the yield trap. It
Speaker 1: was a chaotic period, but having that framework, that repeatable
Speaker 1: process that has worked for us over twenty years, that
Speaker 1: that really helped get us through. I feel like I
Speaker 1: have to ask you at least one question about Game
Speaker 1: Stop in the Material East and over. You know, you
Speaker 1: mentioned that you did actually own game Stop in so
Speaker 1: it's kind of amazing about how the world has changed.
Speaker 1: But you know, I gotta ask, are you worried at
Speaker 1: all about you know, you mentioned you have a pretty
Speaker 1: concentrated portfolio. Are you worried about getting, you know, reddited
Speaker 1: and having one of the names you own sort of
Speaker 1: caught up in a similar frenzy? Uh, Kitty's so funny. Um,
Speaker 1: it's so so funny. You brought that up in Uh
Speaker 1: typical value Manager. Right we were we were eight years
Speaker 1: early on Game Stop, always too early. But because this
Speaker 1: was my favorite part of the notes Chris sent over.
Speaker 1: You know, we often get notes from the guests on
Speaker 1: some stuff that's on their mind. This was buried at
Speaker 1: the end number ten of the bullet points. Not necessary
Speaker 1: to discuss unless it somehow fits the conversation. But we
Speaker 1: actually did own Game Stop, Like, not necessarily to discuss.
Speaker 1: Come on, Chris, you yeah, you know where we're gonna
Speaker 1: hit you with that one, but yeah, to talk us
Speaker 1: through it. It was two thirteen. Yeah, I guess I
Speaker 1: should have guessed that that would come out. What what fits?
Speaker 1: What fits a better current event than that? Um, And
Speaker 1: it's funny. I It's something I have literally not thought
Speaker 1: about in in eight years until a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: I didn't think anyone even knew with this company was um.
Speaker 1: But once upon a time, game Stop yielded four percent,
Speaker 1: had no debt on its bound sheet, had a ton
Speaker 1: of free cash flow, and it covered that dividend. Vine.
Speaker 1: Now we owned game Stop in for a short period
Speaker 1: in two thousand and thirteen. At the time, it was
Speaker 1: literally treading at seven or eight times earnings, and it
Speaker 1: was at a big discount because everyone was worried that
Speaker 1: the business would eventually be disrupted. Uh So here we
Speaker 1: are eight years later, still talking about the same thing. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's a great example of what you were asking
Speaker 1: a little bit about earlier. Mike. You know, how do
Speaker 1: you how do you know? How do you know? You're
Speaker 1: dealing with a value trap or or a yield trap.
Speaker 1: And every so often we get these opportunities where we
Speaker 1: have to think that we have to think that through
Speaker 1: and through our discussions with the company at the time,
Speaker 1: we thought, for one that this disruption was was going
Speaker 1: to be years out. Um, It's it's pretty much happening now.
Speaker 1: So it took it took a number of years, But
Speaker 1: we also thought there would be a slight reprieve because
Speaker 1: eight years ago they were going through the uh previous
Speaker 1: video game console cycle that they're now going through the
Speaker 1: next one. But that one was PlayStation four and Xbox one,
Speaker 1: and they were just gonna have an enormous amount of
Speaker 1: equipment to sell over the next twelve to eighteen months.
Speaker 1: And we thought that would be good for them. So,
Speaker 1: um that that was a shortholding for us. We uh
Speaker 1: an unusual short period for a Hamlin stock and um
Speaker 1: we we did okay by it, but there are plenty
Speaker 1: we don't uh so uh, you know you have to
Speaker 1: you have to keep that in mind, now, Katie. There's
Speaker 1: just nothing we can do if those Reddit boards come
Speaker 1: after our names. I guess we have decisions to to make, um,
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure any um. You know, teen sitting
Speaker 1: on a couch playing video games is going to be
Speaker 1: that excited. And what's in our portfolio today? They're not
Speaker 1: coming after corpor Uh, we're target Well there's I guess
Speaker 1: there's a couple they could Well, well we'll see what happens. Well,
Speaker 1: it's it's an all cap strategy. So there, you know,
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's all over the map. I I don't
Speaker 1: think there's a better seguay into the crazy thing segue,
Speaker 1: uh than game stop talk. But before we do, Chris,
Speaker 1: let me just see if if you can remember, and
Speaker 1: if not, as close as you can get, what's the
Speaker 1: highest yielding stock you've ever entered a position into. Um,
Speaker 1: we own a company today called Enterprise Products. Enterprise Products
Speaker 1: has had a high single digit yield over the over
Speaker 1: the time period of of of ownership, so that would
Speaker 1: probably that would probably be the highest yielding stock at
Speaker 1: least in in my recollection. Yeah, it's something tells me
Speaker 1: a double digit yielding stock is is uh, almost always
Speaker 1: going to be a trapp or at least you don't
Speaker 1: have to worry about it being one. I imagine you do,
Speaker 1: and you usually don't get many opportunities that because if
Speaker 1: it's not a trap, it won't be double digit loong.
Speaker 1: You've got to move very quickly. Yeah, alright, well we'll
Speaker 1: move very quickly into the Craziest Thing segment of the podcast.
Speaker 1: Stand clear of the craziest things we saw in markets
Speaker 1: this week. Christ I know you came prepared. You sounded
Speaker 1: it sounded excited with with your crazy thing. So we'll
Speaker 1: save yours for last and we'll get Katie's first. I'm
Speaker 1: curious what Katie came up with. All Right, well, I'm
Speaker 1: going to talk about doge coin. Um, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: pronounce it doggy coin. I think it's a lot cuter. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is kind of an obvious one. It's
Speaker 1: sword like dred percent year to date from like half
Speaker 1: a penny to seven entire scents, so pretty crazy. And um,
Speaker 1: what I think is even crazier is Bloomberg got an
Speaker 1: interview with the man who created it. His name is
Speaker 1: Billy Marcus, and he's actually cashed in all of his
Speaker 1: doge coin doggy cooin, so he's not in it at
Speaker 1: all because he said that he left in twenty fifteen
Speaker 1: because the community started to shift in a direction that
Speaker 1: he didn't go into. So it's kind of an interesting
Speaker 1: Frankenstein story. But doggy Cooin off to the moon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and now you put that jingle from TikTok back in
Speaker 1: my head. It hasn't left. It's been three weeks. I
Speaker 1: just I'm gonna need like a hypno sister or something
Speaker 1: to get that song out of my head. Oh man,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard that, Chris. It's good,
Speaker 1: good piano jam. You might want to learn that one.
Speaker 1: It's uh, we're taking dog coin were dogg ecoin as
Speaker 1: as I don't know if you're gonna get dogg e
Speaker 1: cooin to stick Katie that we'll try that. I'll start
Speaker 1: calling it that too. Yeah, I tweeted about it, so
Speaker 1: that's all right. Let me give you a couple. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm actually gonna rely entirely on listeners for my crazy things,
Speaker 1: uh this week. One of them is a guy I know,
Speaker 1: Chris knows. Another touching resident here among us, John Mindler,
Speaker 1: who pointed out to me a tweet thread from a
Speaker 1: guy named Joe Pomplano who's a sports business journalist. He
Speaker 1: writes a newsletter called Huddle Up. He points out that
Speaker 1: at the super Bowl, and Chris, as a musician, I'm
Speaker 1: curious to hear your thoughts about this. The super Bowl
Speaker 1: entertainment doesn't get paid. You know, whether you're Janet Jackson
Speaker 1: or your Shakira, you don't get paid. And in fact,
Speaker 1: the Weekend who performed in this this last super Bowl,
Speaker 1: this guy estimates Stay gave him a budget of about
Speaker 1: thirteen minutes thirteen million for the show. He said, that's
Speaker 1: not enough. I'm adding my own seven million on top
Speaker 1: of that. To really do the show I want to do.
Speaker 1: And the reason this works its way into the craziest
Speaker 1: thing is this guy, Joe Pompliano says, it's probably a
Speaker 1: good investment that the number of downloads and the streaming
Speaker 1: you get, UH and the tour revenue you'll have actually
Speaker 1: get UH makes seven million a decent investment for the weekend.
Speaker 1: So I thought that was pretty good. One other one
Speaker 1: before we get to Chris is and this is UH.
Speaker 1: Someone tweeted this to Sarah at from the handle Softball Insider,
Speaker 1: and it's a story from market Watch and one of
Speaker 1: the craziest Chris, I'd like to specialize in the alternative
Speaker 1: asset classes when it comes to the crazy things, And
Speaker 1: one of the craziest alternative asset classes are basketball Sneakers,
Speaker 1: for some reason, are hot sellers on the secondary market.
Speaker 1: Anyone whoever came anywhere near my basketball shoes when I
Speaker 1: was playing Katie would not would not pay a dime
Speaker 1: for them unless it was for some kind of scientific
Speaker 1: experiment on the you know, uh deodorizing process. But Southby's
Speaker 1: actually has a new platform where you can they just
Speaker 1: sell something out of set price. UH. And this is
Speaker 1: a curtsy of market Watch a story a pair of
Speaker 1: Nike hyper Dunk basketball sneakers that were actually made for
Speaker 1: Barack Obama while he was still in office. So they
Speaker 1: feature the presidential seal and the number forty four is
Speaker 1: is embroidered on the side. There are only two pairs made, uh,
Speaker 1: one one to Obama and the other Nike made is
Speaker 1: just kind of a test runt, see, you know, to
Speaker 1: proof concept with the shoes. Sother bees is have the
Speaker 1: has them up for sale. And Katie, this is the
Speaker 1: time of the show where we play prices, right, what
Speaker 1: do you think the the asking price is for a
Speaker 1: pair of Barack Obama Nike hyper Dunk basketball sneakers size
Speaker 1: twelve and a half and they come with free shipping
Speaker 1: if that helps you decide. Okay, Um, you know, I
Speaker 1: actually saw that tweet and I'm kicking myself for not
Speaker 1: clicking the article, But I am going to make a
Speaker 1: completely uneducated guess to say, like three D thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Three D thousand dollars. Okay, I'm keeping my poker face. Chris,
Speaker 1: you're taking the are under on three grand for a
Speaker 1: pair of Nike hyper Dunks. Yeah, that's a that's a
Speaker 1: big number. The prices, right rules, right prices, right rules
Speaker 1: are in effect. Yeah, so you could go one dollar,
Speaker 1: I'll go three one dollar, We'll go one dollar. Okay.
Speaker 1: That is a value manager right there. If I've ever
Speaker 1: seen one, Katie, that that is a big bit ask
Speaker 1: spread right there. One dollar grand is the asking price.
Speaker 1: I had the Obama factor. I got caught up. Now
Speaker 1: I'm dying to know what Katie pays for her shoes.
Speaker 1: I I all right, Chris, what's the craziest thing you
Speaker 1: saw this week? Well, first on the on the musician
Speaker 1: at the super Bowl thing. I have heard that in
Speaker 1: the past, Mike, and I mean, don't you think the
Speaker 1: band the Commuter would do that for free? I think
Speaker 1: I think they would absolutely absolutely, Kay, Chris and I
Speaker 1: have a little dad band called the Commuters that would
Speaker 1: if anyone in uh, not to be confused, there's some
Speaker 1: other band and name the Commuters that will price so us.
Speaker 1: But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
Speaker 1: But if any super Bowl representatives are listening, we absolutely
Speaker 1: would would would play that one for free. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: not gonna chuck in another seven million, though I don't
Speaker 1: think so. Um. This is uh and Katie, thank you
Speaker 1: I had no idea how to pronounce. I did think
Speaker 1: it was doggy coined, by the way, because I thought
Speaker 1: that was cool, and I had no idea how to
Speaker 1: pronounce that. Um, so mine is is obvious. Uh, and
Speaker 1: Katie was almost hinting at it. But I think the
Speaker 1: crazy thing this week, and I'm glad you didn't ask
Speaker 1: me to bring a normal thing because it's getting harder
Speaker 1: to find everything is crazy. It's harder to find normal thing.
Speaker 1: It's the craziest thing this week is the Reddit boards
Speaker 1: went after the pot stocks, and I, um, I find
Speaker 1: this so so crazy and so funny in so many ways.
Speaker 1: But um, but the funny thing is to me why
Speaker 1: I can't believe they went after this after everything else.
Speaker 1: I would have thought this would be the first thing
Speaker 1: that they would have all gone, all gone after, right, games,
Speaker 1: game stop and pot stocks? I mean, how how did
Speaker 1: that not happen? And then um, there a lot of synergy.
Speaker 1: And then separately, I just think that it's a gift
Speaker 1: to you guys because the headlines right themselves, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, hi, high flying uh, potstocks, um pot stocks
Speaker 1: growing like a growing like a weed, or maybe maybe
Speaker 1: for the kids, the weed stocks are lit and then
Speaker 1: and then it also works on the way down right
Speaker 1: the pot stocks are coming off their highs or the
Speaker 1: weed stocks got stoned. I mean, there's so many like
Speaker 1: this is such a gift to you guys, Um as
Speaker 1: as as writers and media. Phone Absolutely absolutely, Chris, you're
Speaker 1: pretty good at that. I gotta say, if if the
Speaker 1: whole Um portfolio manager thing doesn't work out, we we
Speaker 1: could bring it as a headline writer. Maybe those are
Speaker 1: pretty good. I might be steering, we might be stealing
Speaker 1: some of them, Katie. Write those down, get stoned. I'm ready,
Speaker 1: they're getting smoke. Oh that's good. Yeah they do. They
Speaker 1: write themselves. But with that, congratulations Chris, that's a pretty
Speaker 1: good crazy thing you came. I'm gonna have to give
Speaker 1: it to Chris. I think, yeah, it will allow it usually, Chris,
Speaker 1: I I anoint myself the winner of the Craziest Thing competition, uh,
Speaker 1: which is a tough, a tough crust to bear, but
Speaker 1: I do it anyway. But I think with that said,
Speaker 1: put that on your resume. Put that on your resume.
Speaker 1: With that said, I think that's all the time we
Speaker 1: have for the this week. Katie, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for phoning in for Sarah very admirably. Thank you, Thank
Speaker 1: you for having me and Chris always a great opportunity
Speaker 1: to chat markets with you. Really appreciate you coming on
Speaker 1: the show and uh maybe we'll get you back some
Speaker 1: day if if we can really appreciate you guys having
Speaker 1: me and letting me talk about what I what I
Speaker 1: love to do and about my firm handling capital. So
Speaker 1: thank you And just a quick statement from Chris's employer,
Speaker 1: Hamlin Capital Management. This discussion is intended for educational purposes.
Speaker 1: Please note that past performance does not reflect future results
Speaker 1: and that it should not be presumed that any Hamlin
Speaker 1: trade or strategy was or will be successful. Please contact
Speaker 1: Compliance at Hamelin CM dot com for a copy of
Speaker 1: Hamlin's disclosure statement were for a complete discussion of Hamlin's
Speaker 1: tradings and holdings. What Goes Up will be back next week.
Speaker 1: Until then, you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal
Speaker 1: website and app or wherever you get your podcast. We'd
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Speaker 1: review the show on Apple Podcasts so more listeners can
Speaker 1: find us, and you can find us on Twitter, follow
Speaker 1: me at Reaganonymous, Sarah is at Sarah Ponzac. Our guest host,
Speaker 1: Katie is at k Greifeld. You can also follow Bloomberg
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Speaker 1: The head of Bloomberg Podcasts is Francesco Levy. Thanks for listening,
Speaker 1: See you next time.