1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: Strap on your parachute. It's time for What Goes Up 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: with Sarah Ponza and Mike Reagan. Hello and welcome to 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: What goes Up at Bloomberg Weekly Markets Podcast. I'm Mike Reagan, 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: a senior editor at Bloomberg. I'm Katie Greifeld, a reporter 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg, filling in for Sarah. Peck was off this week. 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: So this week on the show, after a few weeks 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: in which it seemed like the market was under the 8 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: control of day traders and Robin Hood and Reddit, things 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: seem like they're starting to get back to normal. We 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: don't want to jinx it, but they're starting to seem 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: like the market's getting back to normal. So we're gonna 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: get back to talking about fundamentals, and this episode is 13 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: going to be all about one of the most important 14 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: elements of the stock market, which is dividends. Our guest 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: is a portfolio manager who helps run a strategy that 16 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: focuses on earning income from stocks with high dividends, and 17 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: as always, will close out this episode with our tradition, 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: the craziest thing I saw in markets this week, And remember, 19 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: if you saw something crazy, give us a call on 20 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: the What goes up hotline at six or six three 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: two four three four nine zero, leave us a voicemail 22 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: and maybe we'll play it on the show, and Katy 23 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: before we get started. One programming note, Um, for some 24 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: strange reason, there's a lot of interest among our listeners 25 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: as to what my nickname in high school was. I 26 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: let it slip that I had a couple of nicknames 27 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: in high school, and I said, we had about a 28 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: hundred and forty seven ratings on Apple Podcasts at the time. 29 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: I said, if we get ten more, if we get 30 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: to one fifty seven, I would reveal one of two nicknames. Obviously, 31 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: the more flattering one would be revealed first, and if 32 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: we got to two hundred, I'd reveal the really embarrassing nickname. 33 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: Sure enough, the listeners have weighed in. We're now to 34 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: about a hundred and sixty three ratings, a little more 35 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: than I bargained for. So I do o listeners a nickname, however, 36 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: uh with Sarah Off. Sarah insists that she'd be around 37 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: when I for the big reveal for the for the 38 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: big reveal of the nickname. So I hate to disappoint 39 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: the listeners. Um, So I think you know what this 40 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: means is that you're on the hook to cough up 41 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: a nickname this week. You know, you really got my 42 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: hopes up. I thought this was the big moment and 43 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: it's not. I know, I know there's they're they're there's 44 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: gonna be outrage among the listeners. But can you come 45 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 1: on give them something? I know you must have had 46 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: some some horsey nickname. I'm guessing in high school. No 47 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,679 Speaker 1: one called me horse girl. There's nothing like that. No, 48 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: My nin name was really boring. I mean, my name 49 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: is Katie Greifelt. They just called me KG because there's 50 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: another Katie on the cross country team, so I had 51 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: to differentiate somehow. Just KG. It's totally vanilla, like Kevin 52 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: gart Like Kevin Garnett. That's pretty good. That's not a 53 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: bad uh, not a bad namestake. All right, Well that's 54 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: the best we can do for nicknames this week. But 55 00:02:58,160 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: two to next week, and if you get us the two, 56 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: you'll get the embarrassing nickname as well as the the 57 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: flattering nickname. But let's get to our guest here and 58 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: full disclosure. This week's guest is a is a very 59 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: good friend of mine, also one of my favorite musicians. Uh. 60 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: One of the best golfers I know, pretty much, one 61 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: of the nicest guys all around I know, UM, But 62 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: none of that is is the reason why he's on 63 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: the show. He's on the show this week because he's 64 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: also one of my favorite people to talk markets with. 65 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: He is, as we mentioned at the intro there, he 66 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: focuses on stocks with high dividends. UH runs an equity 67 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: income strategy. UH. He's a partner and portfolio manager at 68 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: Hamlin Capital Management UM, which is a firm that has 69 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: about four point eight billion dollars under management in two 70 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: main strategies, once a high yield municipal bond strategy and 71 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: the other is a dividend equity strategy, which is where 72 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: our guests comes in. He helps manage that strategy. His 73 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: name is Chris Dagnus. Chris, welcome to this show. Thanks 74 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: so much, Mike. UH. You've given me a lot to 75 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: live up to there, so I'll do I'll do my best. 76 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely all true, by the way, all true, all 77 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: absolutely true. But Chris, I didn't want to start off 78 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: getting you a little bit out of your wheelhouse and 79 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: talking about some stocks that actually do not pay dividends, 80 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: because I find this fascinating and I want to sound 81 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,799 Speaker 1: like an old man here a little bit, which I guess, 82 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: you know, if if the shoe fits right. But you know, 83 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: it used to be back in the day, if you 84 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: were to become one of the biggest stocks in the 85 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: country or in the world, you pretty much had to 86 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: pay a dividend. I mean there were a few exceptions, 87 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: especially in the dot com era, but you know, paying 88 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: a dividend was was more or less expected of a mature, 89 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: big mega cap company. Now these days, you know, you 90 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: look at the biggest stocks in the SMP five hundred 91 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: and okay, Apple, Microsoft the two biggest, they pay dividends, 92 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: probably not at any yield that that would get you excite. 93 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: But then after that you go, oh for five um, 94 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: you know, with Amazon and alphabet Tesla uh and Facebook, 95 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: not a dividend to be found. Berkshire Hathaway is up 96 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: there too. I mean, that's sort of an outlier. Warren 97 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: Buffett follows his own rules, and I guess one of 98 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: them is he likes to cash dividend checks but not 99 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: write them. But I'm just curious how as a dividend 100 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: oriented investor you look at these big mega cap tech companies. Um, 101 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: it seems to me like they almost are avoid They 102 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 1: want to be sort of almost in sort of a 103 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: sustained adolescents. You know, they don't want to give up 104 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: that notion of being a growth company that's always reinvesting. 105 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: But walk us through how you would look at companies 106 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: like that. Isn't inevitable that the facebooks of the world, 107 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: that the alphabets of the world will someday have to 108 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: pay a dividend, do you think? Yeah? I think I 109 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: think that's right, Mike, and and you brought up a 110 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: couple of important points. They're one is that Apple inevitably 111 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: and created its dividend in two thousand and ten, and 112 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: Microsoft initiated its dividend in two thousand and three. And 113 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: once a company gets to a point where it has 114 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: a lot of free cash flow and maybe not as 115 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: much to reinvest back into the business, maybe the opportunity 116 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: set is is not as good. You eventually see that 117 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: these these companies will will likely come around and started 118 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: a dividend payment to shareholders. I would not be surprised 119 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: to see that from Facebook or or Google or or 120 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: some of the big ones. As long as they have 121 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: that free cash flow and the wherewithal in capacity to 122 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: to do it. What's interesting is that there's not much 123 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: we're missing out on today. If you can believe it, 124 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: four hundred and twenty of the five companies in the 125 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 1: SMP actually pay a dividend. Now. Back in that number 126 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: was as high as four hundred and sixty nine companies, 127 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: and in two thousand and one it fell all the 128 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: way to around three hundred and fifty companies. So the 129 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: number of companies has actually been growing over to the 130 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: last ten or twenty years of companies paying paying dividends. 131 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: So I think we're getting back to it a little bit. 132 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: And I think one thing you're gonna see is that 133 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:18,239 Speaker 1: the demographics of this country, we're aging as a country, 134 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: and we need income. Seniors need income, retirees need income. 135 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:27,119 Speaker 1: It has gotten very difficult to find income anywhere. So 136 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: why not have those big companies or demand from those 137 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: big companies that they share some of the cash with 138 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: their shareholders. I think you're gonna I think you're gonna 139 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: see that, uh going forward. I think I think the 140 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: demographics are going to really really require it and ask 141 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: for it. Uh. And and just lastly, one one last point. 142 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: You know, the way we think about it actually is 143 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: that the dividend really imposes a lot of discipline on 144 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: the company and the management team, and without it, you 145 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: really can invest in just about about anything you want. 146 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: But if you're committed to a dividend, if you've committed 147 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: to your shareholders you're going to pay that dividend, well, 148 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: you better deliver on it. And you know what, your 149 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: shareholders are gonna want you to grow that dividend over time, 150 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: and so you've got to really operate the business efficiently, 151 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: make good decisions, make discipline decisions. You just can invest 152 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: in everything. And I think that's a very important concept 153 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: of why this strategy has worked over time. It's the 154 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: governor on the capital allocation process. And eventually, maybe Amazon 155 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: or Google or Tesla, especially maybe Tesla do something shareholders 156 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: are not pleased with, and if they forced the management 157 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: team to implement that dividend, it's gonna be harder for 158 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: them to do that. So that would be that would 159 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: be my my comment on all that. I would say, 160 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: we don't feel we've missed out. There's been plenty of 161 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: really exciting dividend stories out there and companies we've been 162 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: able to own and tech has been a big part 163 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: of that over the last five or ten years because 164 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: a lot of the tech sector has initiated dividends. So 165 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: to your point that you know, you there's actually a 166 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: fair number of companies in the SMP five hundred that 167 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: are paying dividends, it brings some mind. There's this really 168 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: interesting note from Bank of America last week that looked 169 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: at dividend yields in the SMP five hundred. They found 170 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: that over sixt of stocks in the SMP hun five 171 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: hundred have a higher dividend yield than current ten year 172 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: treasury yields. And it might have shifted around a bit 173 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: since then, but their point was that, you know, in 174 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: this rising rate environment, this big reflation trade we're seeing, 175 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: if the ten year reaches their year end target of 176 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: one point seven five by the end of the year, 177 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: then that would kind of diminish the appeal of stocks 178 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: to some extent. And I wanted to hear your thoughts 179 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: on that. You know, if if we truly are in 180 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: a rising rate environment, what does that mean for your strategy? 181 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: Is that a headwind? A lot of a lot of 182 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: good questions in their Katie on the number of companies 183 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,599 Speaker 1: that yield more than than the tenure Mike made a 184 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: funny joke about UM being a senior or an elder 185 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: when we began this call. When when someone talks about 186 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: a one point seven ten year treasury being too high, 187 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: I really feel old. Uh that that that is that 188 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: is not a big number in in my mind. UM, 189 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: And it's it's hard to to recall, but the tenure 190 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: treasury UH in the late nineties during the tech bubble 191 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: was somewhere north of five percent, and the SNP yield 192 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: at the time was one point five percent. In other words, 193 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: it was fine with a much higher treasury yield. Uh. 194 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: It's really all about future earnings growth and and dividend 195 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: growth earning. You that that lower yield and what does 196 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: that look like? Uh? Now you bring up a interesting 197 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: uh point on you know, how does this strategy handle 198 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: higher higher yields. Um. It it's really been a misnomer 199 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: over time that dividend pang stocks don't like higher yields. Uh. 200 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: There are certain groups within our universe, maybe more bond 201 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: proxy like groups. Utilities and reats would be the obvious 202 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: ones that over time have not performed as well. Maybe 203 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: during a brief period of rates moving up, but actually 204 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: we really want rates to go higher. We think it 205 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: has been a huge headwind for our strategy. Um it 206 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: has been a big tail wind for growth stocks with 207 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: such a low rate environment. Higher higher rates generally mean 208 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: better growth, more inflation, and dividend paying stocks. Companies that 209 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: are paying out a dividend and want to grow that dividend, 210 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 1: they want more inflation. They want to be able to 211 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: raise prices on their products and service because then they 212 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: can pass that through in the form of faster earnings growth, 213 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: faster dividend growth. That's good. If they can't raise price 214 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: on their product and service, then and they're trying to 215 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: grow their dividend, you might see a payout ratio start 216 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: to go up and the dividend gets called into question 217 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: and the stock is under pressure. I think we've seen 218 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: more of that over the last UH ten or fifteen 219 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: years now because we've been in this low growth, low 220 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: inflation environment, and that's just been really good for growth 221 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: stocks because because valuations are getting pushed higher and higher. 222 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: Low uh it seems like a strange concept, right. Low 223 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: growth is great for growth, but when there is no 224 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: growth out there, you really are going to pay anything 225 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: for those growth companies that are showing any growth, and 226 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: I think that's what's happening. I think you're seeing very 227 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: high valuations on the great, big large growth companies, the 228 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: Russell one thousand growth you know, those twenty five companies 229 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: in the top twenty five of that index, they're nearly 230 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 1: forty times earnings. I think they're around thirty nine times 231 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: earnings on average right now. That's that seems to be 232 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: fairly elevated. And I think I think rates going up 233 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: might might pull that valuation back down, so we we 234 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: would love it. We think it would probably level the 235 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: playing field between growth and value a little bit if 236 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,719 Speaker 1: you saw a little more inflation and higher interest rates. 237 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: You know, Chris, it's it's interesting every now. Then I'll 238 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: just do a screen of stocks and I don't know 239 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: either the Russell, say the Russell three thousand or the 240 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: SMP five hundred, and just sort them by dividend yield, 241 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: and it kind of reminds me. You know, my dad 242 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: was in the insurance business and and he was uh 243 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: claims guy early on it. He'd always tell stories about 244 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,719 Speaker 1: having to go out to the whatever the flood or 245 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: a big fire or something blew up somewhere, And whenever 246 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: you do the dividends screen like that, it reminds me 247 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: of that because often that the highest yielders or some 248 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: company something's going wrong, something, something's blowing up. UM. And 249 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: especially last March last spring, in the middle of the 250 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: covid UH craziness and the and the bear market. You know, 251 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: I looked at sort of the highest dividends stocks in 252 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: March of last year, and it's just eye popping some 253 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: of the yields that were on offer at that time. 254 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: But I'm curious how your approach fits in with that 255 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: sort of mentality. Um. You know, picking out a really 256 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: high dividends stock, say temper Center More is obviously risky 257 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: but can be very rewarding. So so what's Hamlin's kind 258 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: of approach for sorting out the disasters from stocks that 259 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: have just been dumped, you know, baby with the water 260 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: type of situation, Especially how you navigated UH last spring. 261 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: I always can only imagine you were working around the 262 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: clock trying to figure out, you know, some of these 263 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: stocks with these humongous double digit yields, you know, what 264 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: were the opportunities and what we're Can you talk to 265 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: us a little bit about your process for sorting through uh, 266 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: you know, high high paying stocks, especially at at a 267 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: chaotic time like that like we saw about a year ago. Yeah, 268 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: my last last March. I don't think I slept for 269 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: three weeks straight and we probably talked during that period 270 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: at some point. I'm sure. I'm sure I sounded like it. Um. Yeah, 271 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: So you what you've brought up is a is a concept, 272 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: uh that we call a yield trap. You don't want 273 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: to be stuck in a yield trap. Some call it 274 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: a value trap. Yield trap is is worse. It's the 275 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: same as a value trap, except you're getting paid while 276 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: you're getting killed, so you feel better about it. But 277 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: it's a problem. So there's that, and then of course 278 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: there's the accidental high yielder, and the accidental high yielder 279 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: you want to own because that yield will compress back 280 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: over time and it's just being thrown out. So how 281 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: do you find that accidental high yielder. There are very 282 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: few episodes in one's career, like last March, where the 283 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: SMP drops in three weeks or four weeks. In fact, 284 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: it's it's never happened. That was the fastest beare market ever. 285 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: So usually you have a lot of time to sift 286 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: through UH and last year was was just different. March 287 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: was just different than anything we've we've ever faced. But 288 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: the process for selecting stocks that doesn't that doesn't change. 289 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: You just have to go through it a little more 290 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: quickly and be a little more active in terms of 291 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: your conversations with companies and management teams and your colleagues 292 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: and figuring it all loud. We we have a process 293 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: to help us avoid the so called yield trap. So 294 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: when we select a stop for this portfolio, we we 295 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: do like a high yield. We we would call a 296 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 1: high yield two times that of the SNP five, So 297 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: that number moves around today, that's around three. You know, 298 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: we'll look at anything one point five to jute times 299 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: the yield of the SMP or higher. Um. We also 300 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: want a company who is very much committed to dividend growth, 301 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 1: so that's sort of our starting point. But then the 302 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: key to this entire strategy is that the dividend is sustainable. 303 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: This won't work if that dividend has to be cut. 304 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: It's got to be sustainable and it has to be 305 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: able to grow over time. So there were three really 306 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: important factors we consider number sort of. Our third criteria 307 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: is the bound sheet. You need to have a uh 308 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: quality bound sheet. Low debt. Uh. We don't want too 309 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: much leverage. The deadholders need to be paid before the 310 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: equity holders, so you want to keep the debt at 311 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: a manageable level. Are sort of fourth important criteria is 312 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: cash flow coverage of the dividend. There should be enough 313 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: free cash to pay that dividend and then some. And 314 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: then the fifth thing we look for is a quality 315 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: business and we look at returns on capital. There should 316 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: be uh, you know, mid teams are higher returns on 317 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: equity over over time. We think that defines a good business. 318 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: So as long as that's all in place and that's there, 319 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: you've got a really good starting point and really good 320 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: framework we think to avoiding the the yield trap. It 321 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: was a chaotic period, but having that framework, that repeatable 322 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: process that has worked for us over twenty years, that 323 00:18:48,160 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: that really helped get us through. I feel like I 324 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: have to ask you at least one question about Game 325 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: Stop in the Material East and over. You know, you 326 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: mentioned that you did actually own game Stop in so 327 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: it's kind of amazing about how the world has changed. 328 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: But you know, I gotta ask, are you worried at 329 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: all about you know, you mentioned you have a pretty 330 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: concentrated portfolio. Are you worried about getting, you know, reddited 331 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: and having one of the names you own sort of 332 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: caught up in a similar frenzy? Uh, Kitty's so funny. Um, 333 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 1: it's so so funny. You brought that up in Uh 334 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: typical value Manager. Right we were we were eight years 335 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: early on Game Stop, always too early. But because this 336 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: was my favorite part of the notes Chris sent over. 337 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: You know, we often get notes from the guests on 338 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: some stuff that's on their mind. This was buried at 339 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: the end number ten of the bullet points. Not necessary 340 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: to discuss unless it somehow fits the conversation. But we 341 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: actually did own Game Stop, Like, not necessarily to discuss. 342 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: Come on, Chris, you yeah, you know where we're gonna 343 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: hit you with that one, but yeah, to talk us 344 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: through it. It was two thirteen. Yeah, I guess I 345 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: should have guessed that that would come out. What what fits? 346 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: What fits a better current event than that? Um, And 347 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: it's funny. I It's something I have literally not thought 348 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: about in in eight years until a couple of weeks ago. 349 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: I didn't think anyone even knew with this company was um. 350 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: But once upon a time, game Stop yielded four percent, 351 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 1: had no debt on its bound sheet, had a ton 352 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: of free cash flow, and it covered that dividend. Vine. 353 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: Now we owned game Stop in for a short period 354 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: in two thousand and thirteen. At the time, it was 355 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: literally treading at seven or eight times earnings, and it 356 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: was at a big discount because everyone was worried that 357 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: the business would eventually be disrupted. Uh So here we 358 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: are eight years later, still talking about the same thing. Um. 359 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: But it's a great example of what you were asking 360 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: a little bit about earlier. Mike. You know, how do 361 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: you how do you know? How do you know? You're 362 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: dealing with a value trap or or a yield trap. 363 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: And every so often we get these opportunities where we 364 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: have to think that we have to think that through 365 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: and through our discussions with the company at the time, 366 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: we thought, for one that this disruption was was going 367 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: to be years out. Um, It's it's pretty much happening now. 368 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: So it took it took a number of years, But 369 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: we also thought there would be a slight reprieve because 370 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: eight years ago they were going through the uh previous 371 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: video game console cycle that they're now going through the 372 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: next one. But that one was PlayStation four and Xbox one, 373 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: and they were just gonna have an enormous amount of 374 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: equipment to sell over the next twelve to eighteen months. 375 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: And we thought that would be good for them. So, 376 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: um that that was a shortholding for us. We uh 377 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: an unusual short period for a Hamlin stock and um 378 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: we we did okay by it, but there are plenty 379 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: we don't uh so uh, you know you have to 380 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: you have to keep that in mind, now, Katie. There's 381 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: just nothing we can do if those Reddit boards come 382 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: after our names. I guess we have decisions to to make, um, 383 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure any um. You know, teen sitting 384 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: on a couch playing video games is going to be 385 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 1: that excited. And what's in our portfolio today? They're not 386 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: coming after corpor Uh, we're target Well there's I guess 387 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: there's a couple they could Well, well we'll see what happens. Well, 388 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 1: it's it's an all cap strategy. So there, you know, 389 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's all over the map. I I don't 390 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: think there's a better seguay into the crazy thing segue, 391 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: uh than game stop talk. But before we do, Chris, 392 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: let me just see if if you can remember, and 393 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 1: if not, as close as you can get, what's the 394 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: highest yielding stock you've ever entered a position into. Um, 395 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: we own a company today called Enterprise Products. Enterprise Products 396 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: has had a high single digit yield over the over 397 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: the time period of of of ownership, so that would 398 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: probably that would probably be the highest yielding stock at 399 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: least in in my recollection. Yeah, it's something tells me 400 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: a double digit yielding stock is is uh, almost always 401 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: going to be a trapp or at least you don't 402 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: have to worry about it being one. I imagine you do, 403 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: and you usually don't get many opportunities that because if 404 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: it's not a trap, it won't be double digit loong. 405 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: You've got to move very quickly. Yeah, alright, well we'll 406 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: move very quickly into the Craziest Thing segment of the podcast. 407 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: Stand clear of the craziest things we saw in markets 408 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: this week. Christ I know you came prepared. You sounded 409 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 1: it sounded excited with with your crazy thing. So we'll 410 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: save yours for last and we'll get Katie's first. I'm 411 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: curious what Katie came up with. All Right, well, I'm 412 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: going to talk about doge coin. Um, I'm just gonna 413 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: pronounce it doggy coin. I think it's a lot cuter. Um. 414 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this is kind of an obvious one. It's 415 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: sword like dred percent year to date from like half 416 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: a penny to seven entire scents, so pretty crazy. And um, 417 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: what I think is even crazier is Bloomberg got an 418 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: interview with the man who created it. His name is 419 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: Billy Marcus, and he's actually cashed in all of his 420 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: doge coin doggy cooin, so he's not in it at 421 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: all because he said that he left in twenty fifteen 422 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: because the community started to shift in a direction that 423 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: he didn't go into. So it's kind of an interesting 424 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 1: Frankenstein story. But doggy Cooin off to the moon. Yeah, 425 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: and now you put that jingle from TikTok back in 426 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: my head. It hasn't left. It's been three weeks. I 427 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: just I'm gonna need like a hypno sister or something 428 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: to get that song out of my head. Oh man, 429 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard that, Chris. It's good, 430 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: good piano jam. You might want to learn that one. 431 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: It's uh, we're taking dog coin were dogg ecoin as 432 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: as I don't know if you're gonna get dogg e 433 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: cooin to stick Katie that we'll try that. I'll start 434 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: calling it that too. Yeah, I tweeted about it, so 435 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: that's all right. Let me give you a couple. Um, 436 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: I'm actually gonna rely entirely on listeners for my crazy things, 437 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: uh this week. One of them is a guy I know, 438 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 1: Chris knows. Another touching resident here among us, John Mindler, 439 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: who pointed out to me a tweet thread from a 440 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: guy named Joe Pomplano who's a sports business journalist. He 441 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: writes a newsletter called Huddle Up. He points out that 442 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: at the super Bowl, and Chris, as a musician, I'm 443 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: curious to hear your thoughts about this. The super Bowl 444 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 1: entertainment doesn't get paid. You know, whether you're Janet Jackson 445 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: or your Shakira, you don't get paid. And in fact, 446 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: the Weekend who performed in this this last super Bowl, 447 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: this guy estimates Stay gave him a budget of about 448 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: thirteen minutes thirteen million for the show. He said, that's 449 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: not enough. I'm adding my own seven million on top 450 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: of that. To really do the show I want to do. 451 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: And the reason this works its way into the craziest 452 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: thing is this guy, Joe Pompliano says, it's probably a 453 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: good investment that the number of downloads and the streaming 454 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: you get, UH and the tour revenue you'll have actually 455 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: get UH makes seven million a decent investment for the weekend. 456 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: So I thought that was pretty good. One other one 457 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: before we get to Chris is and this is UH. 458 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: Someone tweeted this to Sarah at from the handle Softball Insider, 459 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: and it's a story from market Watch and one of 460 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: the craziest Chris, I'd like to specialize in the alternative 461 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: asset classes when it comes to the crazy things, And 462 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: one of the craziest alternative asset classes are basketball Sneakers, 463 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: for some reason, are hot sellers on the secondary market. 464 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: Anyone whoever came anywhere near my basketball shoes when I 465 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: was playing Katie would not would not pay a dime 466 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: for them unless it was for some kind of scientific 467 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: experiment on the you know, uh deodorizing process. But Southby's 468 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: actually has a new platform where you can they just 469 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: sell something out of set price. UH. And this is 470 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: a curtsy of market Watch a story a pair of 471 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: Nike hyper Dunk basketball sneakers that were actually made for 472 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: Barack Obama while he was still in office. So they 473 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 1: feature the presidential seal and the number forty four is 474 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: is embroidered on the side. There are only two pairs made, uh, 475 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: one one to Obama and the other Nike made is 476 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: just kind of a test runt, see, you know, to 477 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: proof concept with the shoes. Sother bees is have the 478 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: has them up for sale. And Katie, this is the 479 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: time of the show where we play prices, right, what 480 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: do you think the the asking price is for a 481 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: pair of Barack Obama Nike hyper Dunk basketball sneakers size 482 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: twelve and a half and they come with free shipping 483 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: if that helps you decide. Okay, Um, you know, I 484 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: actually saw that tweet and I'm kicking myself for not 485 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: clicking the article, But I am going to make a 486 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: completely uneducated guess to say, like three D thousand dollars. 487 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: Three D thousand dollars. Okay, I'm keeping my poker face. Chris, 488 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: you're taking the are under on three grand for a 489 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: pair of Nike hyper Dunks. Yeah, that's a that's a 490 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: big number. The prices, right rules, right prices, right rules 491 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: are in effect. Yeah, so you could go one dollar, 492 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: I'll go three one dollar, We'll go one dollar. Okay. 493 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: That is a value manager right there. If I've ever 494 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: seen one, Katie, that that is a big bit ask 495 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: spread right there. One dollar grand is the asking price. 496 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: I had the Obama factor. I got caught up. Now 497 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: I'm dying to know what Katie pays for her shoes. 498 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: I I all right, Chris, what's the craziest thing you 499 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: saw this week? Well, first on the on the musician 500 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: at the super Bowl thing. I have heard that in 501 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: the past, Mike, and I mean, don't you think the 502 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: band the Commuter would do that for free? I think 503 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: I think they would absolutely absolutely, Kay, Chris and I 504 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: have a little dad band called the Commuters that would 505 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: if anyone in uh, not to be confused, there's some 506 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: other band and name the Commuters that will price so us. 507 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. 508 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: But if any super Bowl representatives are listening, we absolutely 509 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: would would would play that one for free. Yeah, we're 510 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: not gonna chuck in another seven million, though I don't 511 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: think so. Um. This is uh and Katie, thank you 512 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: I had no idea how to pronounce. I did think 513 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: it was doggy coined, by the way, because I thought 514 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: that was cool, and I had no idea how to 515 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: pronounce that. Um, so mine is is obvious. Uh, and 516 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: Katie was almost hinting at it. But I think the 517 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: crazy thing this week, and I'm glad you didn't ask 518 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: me to bring a normal thing because it's getting harder 519 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: to find everything is crazy. It's harder to find normal thing. 520 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: It's the craziest thing this week is the Reddit boards 521 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: went after the pot stocks, and I, um, I find 522 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: this so so crazy and so funny in so many ways. 523 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: But um, but the funny thing is to me why 524 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: I can't believe they went after this after everything else. 525 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: I would have thought this would be the first thing 526 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: that they would have all gone, all gone after, right, games, 527 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: game stop and pot stocks? I mean, how how did 528 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: that not happen? And then um, there a lot of synergy. 529 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: And then separately, I just think that it's a gift 530 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: to you guys because the headlines right themselves, right, I mean, 531 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: you know, hi, high flying uh, potstocks, um pot stocks 532 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: growing like a growing like a weed, or maybe maybe 533 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: for the kids, the weed stocks are lit and then 534 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: and then it also works on the way down right 535 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: the pot stocks are coming off their highs or the 536 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: weed stocks got stoned. I mean, there's so many like 537 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: this is such a gift to you guys, Um as 538 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: as as writers and media. Phone Absolutely absolutely, Chris, you're 539 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: pretty good at that. I gotta say, if if the 540 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: whole Um portfolio manager thing doesn't work out, we we 541 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: could bring it as a headline writer. Maybe those are 542 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: pretty good. I might be steering, we might be stealing 543 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: some of them, Katie. Write those down, get stoned. I'm ready, 544 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: they're getting smoke. Oh that's good. Yeah they do. They 545 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: write themselves. But with that, congratulations Chris, that's a pretty 546 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: good crazy thing you came. I'm gonna have to give 547 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: it to Chris. I think, yeah, it will allow it usually, Chris, 548 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: I I anoint myself the winner of the Craziest Thing competition, uh, 549 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: which is a tough, a tough crust to bear, but 550 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: I do it anyway. But I think with that said, 551 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: put that on your resume. Put that on your resume. 552 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: With that said, I think that's all the time we 553 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: have for the this week. Katie, thank you so much 554 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: for phoning in for Sarah very admirably. Thank you, Thank 555 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: you for having me and Chris always a great opportunity 556 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: to chat markets with you. Really appreciate you coming on 557 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: the show and uh maybe we'll get you back some 558 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: day if if we can really appreciate you guys having 559 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: me and letting me talk about what I what I 560 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: love to do and about my firm handling capital. So 561 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: thank you And just a quick statement from Chris's employer, 562 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: Hamlin Capital Management. This discussion is intended for educational purposes. 563 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: Please note that past performance does not reflect future results 564 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: and that it should not be presumed that any Hamlin 565 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: trade or strategy was or will be successful. Please contact 566 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: Compliance at Hamelin CM dot com for a copy of 567 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: Hamlin's disclosure statement were for a complete discussion of Hamlin's 568 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: tradings and holdings. What Goes Up will be back next week. 569 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: Until then, you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal 570 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: website and app or wherever you get your podcast. We'd 571 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: love it if you took the time to rate and 572 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: review the show on Apple Podcasts so more listeners can 573 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: find us, and you can find us on Twitter, follow 574 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: me at Reaganonymous, Sarah is at Sarah Ponzac. Our guest host, 575 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: Katie is at k Greifeld. You can also follow Bloomberg 576 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: Podcasts at podcasts and thank you to Charlie Pellett of 577 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio and the voice of the New York City 578 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: Subway system. What Goes Up is produced by Tofur Foreheads. 579 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: The head of Bloomberg Podcasts is Francesco Levy. Thanks for listening, 580 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: See you next time.