Speaker 1: Uh, who, what's Joseph my note? All right, it's coming
Speaker 1: in hot. Yeah, yeah, what's Joseph my Nope? Take two,
Speaker 1: Take two, everybody, This is Behind the Bastard's a podcast
Speaker 1: about the worst people in all of history. And let's
Speaker 1: just rip off that band aid. We're talking about Joseph
Speaker 1: Mangela for the next four episodes. Yeah, the working title
Speaker 1: of the doc is just Joseph Mangela Jesus Christ. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so stoke, Stoke can be here. How you doing, Matt,
Speaker 1: I'm doing good. You know, I've been I've been stoked
Speaker 1: to come back on the show. Um, and I've I've
Speaker 1: had this bit, you know, ready to go for a while.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for I knew we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: Joseph Manglo. I switched to the soundboard and it's all
Speaker 1: it's a jar Binks. Great, and I now I'm realizing
Speaker 1: the jar jar soundboard's not going to work from this
Speaker 1: particular episode. Well, you know, a lot of people will
Speaker 1: say this is actually an argument historians will make all
Speaker 1: the time that oh no, I love it personally. A
Speaker 1: lot of historians will argue that Mangelow was the jar
Speaker 1: Jar Binks of the Nazi regime in that in that
Speaker 1: he was an embarrassing and kind of sad character who
Speaker 1: nonetheless had an almost Forrest Gump like availability around many
Speaker 1: of the most significant moments in the history of the
Speaker 1: Third Reich. Yeah, he was just around inventing has smiley
Speaker 1: faced T shirts and seeing what what what? What will
Speaker 1: happen if twins put together? He also he was also
Speaker 1: briefly friends with Qui Gonjin. But that's a separate separate matter,
Speaker 1: separate matter, separate matter, very very bad. So this is
Speaker 1: I'm probably not gonna do much charge this episode just
Speaker 1: based on subject matter alone. Oh boy. Yeah, but I'm enjoying. Yeah. Good. Look,
Speaker 1: there's a lot we can say about the wisdom of
Speaker 1: that particular decision, but what I respect is that you
Speaker 1: made a choice. Mat Yeah, A lot of people in
Speaker 1: this life, you know, never have the courage to choose,
Speaker 1: and you did, so thank you. Yeah. I'm unfortunately, I'm
Speaker 1: someone who I like to commit to a bit um,
Speaker 1: you know, subject matter be damned. I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: even if people don't so much enjoy jar Jar coming
Speaker 1: in out in out of an episode with a evil
Speaker 1: Nazi doctor, It's like, Hey, at least he's committed right, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: exactly not Mangla. Yeah, well he he was committed to.
Speaker 1: You got to give that to the man. So m
Speaker 1: we have you know, we have like we do and
Speaker 1: go like, let's talk about I don't know, fucking something
Speaker 1: fun cats. Yeah, so no, we're not going to do that.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk although josephs or cats as in James
Speaker 1: Gordon in a bad costume. That's a bastard. We should
Speaker 1: talk about. That is a bastard. We should talk about.
Speaker 1: Joseph Mangela also liked cats, so there you go. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: he had a few. So here's the thing. You know,
Speaker 1: we do a history podcast here where we talk about
Speaker 1: the worst people ever, um, and we have a lot
Speaker 1: of different subjects, and because you know we've been doing
Speaker 1: this for so long, we'll alternate between, oh, this week
Speaker 1: we're talking about a dictator. This week we're just talking
Speaker 1: about a fascist who was pretty good at chess, or
Speaker 1: we're making fun of Ben Shapiro's book. And whenever we
Speaker 1: do those kind of like less in tense episodes, we
Speaker 1: get a message from We get messages from people being like,
Speaker 1: how dare you cover this guy who's not as bad
Speaker 1: when you haven't done this. Other worst guy yet used
Speaker 1: to be it used to be the person that we
Speaker 1: would get most often for that was was Kissinger. Right.
Speaker 1: People would be like, how how dare you talk about
Speaker 1: I don't know so and so when you haven't taught
Speaker 1: you Jordan Peterson when you haven't done Kissingers, Like, well,
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson was a little more fun than kissing Jerry right. Um,
Speaker 1: since we've done the Kissinger episodes, now it's Joseph mangela um,
Speaker 1: and all I have to say to the people who
Speaker 1: have been messaging me about him is be careful what
Speaker 1: you wish for shit birds, because here he fucking is,
Speaker 1: so use have shit birds. By the way, one of
Speaker 1: my favorite words that was synergistic to you know, can
Speaker 1: I do my plug up top just in manga? Absolutely,
Speaker 1: this is the time to do the plug man. Okay?
Speaker 1: Uh So it's I have a why Are and Sopranos
Speaker 1: rewatch podcast. It's called pod Yourself a gun. That's that's
Speaker 1: what you look for on the iTunes store. You guys
Speaker 1: have lots of reviews, like so many reviews. I feel
Speaker 1: like people listen to your podcast. So I'm gonna say, hey,
Speaker 1: sure you don't even have to listen a pod yourself
Speaker 1: a gun. Just give us five stars in review and
Speaker 1: you know, and a George or a quote and I'll
Speaker 1: be happy. Dog Yeah, review bomb them, yeah, positively please. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's other wire podcasts. Sabotage them, cut their break lines,
Speaker 1: you know, go out, go out there and do good. Yeah, Matt, Well,
Speaker 1: first off, I want to ask what do you know
Speaker 1: about Joseph Mangela? Like if a caveman got thought out
Speaker 1: of ice and wanted you to explain the Holocaust to him,
Speaker 1: how would you explain who Joseph Mangola was? Um, all
Speaker 1: of my knowledge of Joseph Mangela comes from the Slayer
Speaker 1: song Angel of Death, which doesn't tell you much, but
Speaker 1: it's that. And I saw an info like one of
Speaker 1: those like infographic you know, like kurtzcause it's like a
Speaker 1: YouTube channel that has like what if, you know, an
Speaker 1: asteroid hit the Earth and it's like a scientific yeah
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. So some weird like off brand channel tried
Speaker 1: to do the same thing with Mangola and it's terrible,
Speaker 1: like because the person who's like narrating it is still
Speaker 1: trying to do like a happy, engaging voice and you
Speaker 1: can't really do that. Yeah, when you're talking about sewing
Speaker 1: twins together. So, um, I know that he did that.
Speaker 1: I know that he was I know how it ends.
Speaker 1: I know, um that he's I know he's bad and
Speaker 1: I know he was evil doctor. Also, the video ends
Speaker 1: with sound off in the comments if you agree with
Speaker 1: doctor Mangola's experiments, and I was like, that's not what's
Speaker 1: for serious. That's how it ends. Yeah, that's how it ends.
Speaker 1: And I was like, that's a mistake. That is a weird,
Speaker 1: weird shit some unhinged. No, that's unhinged. Yeah, it's interesting
Speaker 1: that you bring up because you you've brought up a
Speaker 1: couple of times the sewing twins together stuff. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of stories about Mangola. First off, your basic contention
Speaker 1: he was an evil doctor, absolutely accurate. Obviously, this is
Speaker 1: behind the bastards. We're covering him. A lot of the
Speaker 1: stories about stuff Mangola did at Auschwitz are not entirely accurate,
Speaker 1: in that they are things that happened, but they're not
Speaker 1: necessarily things that Mangola did, and we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about that. The actual the story of Manglo that has
Speaker 1: kind of emerged is more robust historiography has come out
Speaker 1: is a lot worse, I think than the stories that
Speaker 1: we're coming out in the seventy The Boys from Brazil
Speaker 1: era sort of like a depiction of him. I think
Speaker 1: it's worse than you know, but it's also different in
Speaker 1: some important ways. So I do want to let people know,
Speaker 1: up top, this is going to be maybe not the
Speaker 1: series you're expecting. We're going to spend all this week
Speaker 1: actually talking about as much as we talk about Mangola's
Speaker 1: early life, we're going to be talking about the birth
Speaker 1: of the Nazi racial science medical community, because you cannot
Speaker 1: extracate Mangola's acts from that larger medical apparatus. Um So,
Speaker 1: without further ado, Joseph Rudolph the Red Nose Mangola, Why
Speaker 1: did I do that? Was born on March sixteenth, nineteen eleven,
Speaker 1: in a little I mean I like that. You were
Speaker 1: just like, hey, you know what, why not from Christmas? Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a March baby, He's not that far off, And
Speaker 1: you were like, he got what as say? Okay, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: go ahead, good god, I can the ADL is preparing
Speaker 1: to fire bomb us both out of our homes. I
Speaker 1: just up top, I am Jewish, and I also get
Speaker 1: constantly brigaded by Nazis online. So yeah, and up top,
Speaker 1: I did not ask you to put in the jar
Speaker 1: Jar Binks soundbox. I was a peer peer you. I
Speaker 1: did make the Rudolf the red Nose. I don't know
Speaker 1: why anyway. He was born in a town called Gunsberg
Speaker 1: on March sixteenth, nineteen eleven, in southern Germany. His father,
Speaker 1: Carl Mangola, was an engineer who designed farming equipment and
Speaker 1: owned a small manufacturing firm that produced it. If you
Speaker 1: are particularly in Europe and in Latin America, if you're
Speaker 1: like hang out on farms, you will see equipment often,
Speaker 1: that says Mangola on it still yeah, yeah, no, there's
Speaker 1: still a thing utty recently. It definitely had an impact
Speaker 1: on the brand. I mean, I'm not going to say
Speaker 1: you have to respect them for continuing the name. It's
Speaker 1: like if Hitler had a cousin who made calculators and
Speaker 1: in like nineteen forty six he was like, look, man,
Speaker 1: I was like, fuck that guy, but I'm not changing
Speaker 1: the name. Yeah, it's the t I eighty eight m
Speaker 1: So Carl started his small manufacturing firm repairing farm equipment.
Speaker 1: He had a little business partner for a while. They
Speaker 1: had a foundry where they would produce you know, tool pieces.
Speaker 1: But the foundry burnt down and it might have been
Speaker 1: a little bit sketchy. I don't know. This happens to
Speaker 1: Karl like two or three times, Like his factory will
Speaker 1: burn down and he'll get a bunch of insurance money
Speaker 1: and make a better factory. But also this is night
Speaker 1: like the early nineteen hundreds, so I'm not surprised that
Speaker 1: a bunch of German foundries are burning down. It's yeah,
Speaker 1: ship burned down a lot back in those days. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they didn't have fire extinguishers, they didn't believe in wind.
Speaker 1: You know, it was a different time. Um. So at
Speaker 1: the time that Joseph was born, Carl employed seven workers
Speaker 1: and was probably what you'd call upper middle class, starting
Speaker 1: to verge on wealthy. Joseph's mother was the formidably named
Speaker 1: while Burga Mangola. And with a name like that, you
Speaker 1: know you're talking about a tough customer. Well, yeah, oh
Speaker 1: for sure. Now she was three years older than her
Speaker 1: husband and from a well off family in Gunsberg, and
Speaker 1: as a result of being rich and very very ang
Speaker 1: grief she had kind of no fucks to give. Decades later,
Speaker 1: Joseph would describe his father as good natured and soft hearted,
Speaker 1: but his mother as determined and forceful. And you know,
Speaker 1: periodically she would have to come in and like work
Speaker 1: the factory when her husband wasn't there or whatever, and
Speaker 1: like biographers will note, like all of his employees were
Speaker 1: fucking terrified of her. I don't think this has any
Speaker 1: bearing on the man Mangela becomes, but it's fun context.
Speaker 1: So Carl and Walburga's firstborn baby had died a couple
Speaker 1: of days after being born, and so when Joseph came out,
Speaker 1: I think a year or so later and was healthy,
Speaker 1: he was celebrated by his whole family. In writings years later,
Speaker 1: Joseph would describe his early childhood as a secure, full home,
Speaker 1: surrounded by extended family and hired help who all nourished
Speaker 1: and obsessed over him. During the first three years of
Speaker 1: his life, he was joined by two younger brothers, Carl
Speaker 1: and Aloise. Just you know, whenever you I come on
Speaker 1: this show and you talk about like Nazis, I'm always
Speaker 1: waiting for like more of the like at home, like trauma,
Speaker 1: like you know, early childhood trauma to like explain stuff,
Speaker 1: and I think consistently that's almost never been the case. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that just that bums me out more than Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. We just did Coco Chanelle, who came from
Speaker 1: like a nightmare background, maybe like the most difficult childhood
Speaker 1: of any person we've ever talked about on this show.
Speaker 1: And we were talking during that about like, how often
Speaker 1: is it with these monsters that they have like some horrible,
Speaker 1: horrible childhood versus you know not And honestly, I think
Speaker 1: the worst of them tend to grow up and reasonably
Speaker 1: secure homes. You know Hitler. Hitler's dad was kind of
Speaker 1: a dick, although I don't think exceptionally for the age.
Speaker 1: They were very poor though his mom was sick, but
Speaker 1: she loved him, like he grew up with like love
Speaker 1: and a family who cared about him. That's just night
Speaker 1: not a not that doesn't seem to have much of
Speaker 1: a protective effect from being one of history's greatest monsters.
Speaker 1: A lot of loving homes produce war criminals. I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to raise my daughter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever I need to do to make her
Speaker 1: not do race science, I'll do it, and if it
Speaker 1: means being more strict, I guess I'll have to do it.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, I mean the answer is I think
Speaker 1: nobody knows. Nobody knows how to not make war criminals,
Speaker 1: which is why we have so many of them. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: I don't. Maybe like if she ever considers doing a
Speaker 1: war criminal, like get one of those like little little
Speaker 1: spray bottles and like right in the knees, like like
Speaker 1: a cat. Like. No, yeah, exactly, don't do that. No,
Speaker 1: no ethnic cleansing her as she's trying to measure a skull. No, no, no.
Speaker 1: So Joseph's family was conservative and Catholic, so that may
Speaker 1: be a bit of a red flag. Though um Norman Stone,
Speaker 1: who's an Oxford professor who analyzed Joseph's memoirs on his
Speaker 1: own life, later has claimed that quote respect rather than affection,
Speaker 1: seems to have ruled the household. M and Gerald Posner,
Speaker 1: who wrote an early positive, entertailed biography of Mangla, to
Speaker 1: embrace this view of Mangola's early life that like the
Speaker 1: family was secure but not warm. He wrote, the relationship
Speaker 1: between his parents did not improve the emotional austerity of
Speaker 1: the Mangola home. They were known as a quarrelsome pair.
Speaker 1: Joseph wrote bitterly of his father as a cold figure
Speaker 1: and of his mother as not much better at loving,
Speaker 1: although he came to admire her energy and decisive nature
Speaker 1: for the early parts of his life. And Nanny, called Monica,
Speaker 1: fulfilled the dominant maternal role, coaxing it at times, intimidating
Speaker 1: Joseph into holding fast the Catholic faith for his parental legacy.
Speaker 1: At last, Mangola was grateful. In his autobiography, he wrote,
Speaker 1: one could feel flattered that the family tradition going back
Speaker 1: generations was continued with the name of the father of Christ, Joseph.
Speaker 1: And this is you know, it's weird, because that seems
Speaker 1: to be like him saying, well, it was kind of
Speaker 1: a cold relationship. It wasn't very loving. Some of Mangola's
Speaker 1: own writings contradicts that, and David Marwell, who wrote a
Speaker 1: better biography of Mangola, I think than Posner, tempers this
Speaker 1: attitude because he really does emphasize he has a big family.
Speaker 1: He seems to be very much wanted as a kid um,
Speaker 1: he has a lot of resources poured into him. Obviously,
Speaker 1: no childhood is perfect. The fact that he's deeply cared for,
Speaker 1: and that his parents could be distant and stern can
Speaker 1: both coexist. You know, they're fucking German. Yeah, they're they're German,
Speaker 1: right Like, yeah, this sounds like default German parents. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like that's how you say I
Speaker 1: love you? Yeah, way, yeah, I remember talk I brought that.
Speaker 1: Bring this guy up. One of the Nazis that i've
Speaker 1: one of the old school Nazis, former Nazis that I
Speaker 1: talked to, you know earlier in my life was a
Speaker 1: guy who'd been in the Hitler youth as a kid,
Speaker 1: Warranted when he was fourteen, and he would talk about
Speaker 1: like his family life, and one of the stories he
Speaker 1: would tell is that like and he's he framed. This
Speaker 1: is a pretty common kind of thing, is you know,
Speaker 1: the father in Prussian culture in particular, was like the
Speaker 1: dictator of the family. This was actually a big aspect
Speaker 1: of kind of the way the Nazis talked about how
Speaker 1: the state should work. The father is the dictator of
Speaker 1: the family, and the father follows the fearer in a
Speaker 1: way that's very much like that, right, right, this is
Speaker 1: the Fatherland, I get it. Yeah, And so he was like, well,
Speaker 1: a couple of times a week when we would have
Speaker 1: an egg, because eggs were hard to come by, we
Speaker 1: would all sit around the table and watch us my
Speaker 1: father ate the entire egg. And that was like a
Speaker 1: thing we did as a family. You're going to watch
Speaker 1: me eats a hard boiled egg alone. Imagine less salt.
Speaker 1: Imagine this egg is the frontier of Poland and we
Speaker 1: must crack it. Friends of West Jesus, I love I
Speaker 1: love like dogging your family like that, just like watch
Speaker 1: me eat the egg. You gotta watch me eat this egg.
Speaker 1: You gotta learn respect. You know, one day you'll be
Speaker 1: the father eating the eggs, not sharing eggs and your
Speaker 1: family incredible stuff. You want some say, are you kidding
Speaker 1: biens America. We are coming back around to the age
Speaker 1: of eggs and short supply. So the same year that
Speaker 1: Joseph was born, Carl bought his first Bins automobile. He
Speaker 1: was well respected as a boss due to the fact
Speaker 1: that he was willing to get his hands dirty. He
Speaker 1: put in long hours. He seems to have been like
Speaker 1: a reasonably like easygoing guy, so I think his workers
Speaker 1: generally liked him. In nineteen fourteen, when Carl was or
Speaker 1: when Joseph was just three. A disastrous sandwich run ended
Speaker 1: with a habsburg and shortly dying, and shortly thereafter a
Speaker 1: war that destroyed much of Western Europe. Carl's workforce had
Speaker 1: ballooned to about thirty men by this point, but the
Speaker 1: war takes Carl away from his child in business, and
Speaker 1: he spends the next two years serving at the front.
Speaker 1: Joseph's mother had to take over for her husband, but
Speaker 1: that actually did not go badly for the family. World
Speaker 1: War One is terrible for everyone else in Germany, but
Speaker 1: the the mangel Is kind of do great because under
Speaker 1: her leadership, their firm gets awarded a bunch of government contracts.
Speaker 1: They're making military vehicles and carts and ship for the army.
Speaker 1: Carl returns after two years at the front because the
Speaker 1: firm has gotten so much bigger that like the government's like,
Speaker 1: we need you running your company rather than fighting. Um.
Speaker 1: Over the course of the warriors, the Mangela family business
Speaker 1: triples in size and becomes one of the largest employers
Speaker 1: in the city of Gunsberg. Um. So everyone else spins
Speaker 1: World War One starving and uh desperate, but the Mangels
Speaker 1: get rich. Um, Yeah, that's that's good. He ate. Oh
Speaker 1: he was having. He was having three four eggs a week,
Speaker 1: sometimes matt making making, all the goons of Gunsberg watching.
Speaker 1: When the fighting stopped, Carl led a seamless pivot for
Speaker 1: his company back to the production of farming equipment, and
Speaker 1: by the early nineteen twenties it was the third largest
Speaker 1: threshing company in Germany. Um and if you know Germans,
Speaker 1: they loved a thresh, big thresh colture, thistles, thistle threshles.
Speaker 1: Absolutely so Mangola was now Gunsberg's largest employer, and Joseph's
Speaker 1: family was the first family in a growing city. Of course,
Speaker 1: the twenties were good for more than just threshing. They
Speaker 1: also yielded a bumper crop of fascists. Karl was not
Speaker 1: quite a fascist early on, but he was a wealthy conservative,
Speaker 1: and so he was not very far from the fascist
Speaker 1: side there canabis maybe Yeah, he was fash curious, you know.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote now from mar Well's Unmasking The
Speaker 1: Angel of Death. Mangela's father was at least at some
Speaker 1: point a member of the German National People's Party. He
Speaker 1: was not then a supporter of the Nazi Party, as
Speaker 1: suggested by some whose site his having made one of
Speaker 1: his factory buildings available to Hitler for a campaign event
Speaker 1: in October thirty two. In fact, Carl first joined the
Speaker 1: Nazi Party in May of nineteen thirty three, only after
Speaker 1: it gained power in connection with his own bid for
Speaker 1: a seat on the city council, which had eluded his
Speaker 1: prior attempts in nineteen twenty four and nineteen twenty nine.
Speaker 1: According to historian Znezoff Uh, Carl Mangela's political aspirations were
Speaker 1: less ideological than grounded in his desire to influence the
Speaker 1: local business climate and the local Gunsberg. Nazi Party officials
Speaker 1: accused him of purchasing his seat through a generous contribution,
Speaker 1: so he is he is not an ideological Nazi. He's like,
Speaker 1: I want to have Hitler speak at my factory because
Speaker 1: it will help me like get a tax break later on,
Speaker 1: Like I can I can work my way into the
Speaker 1: city council. No, yeah, it is kind of insane to
Speaker 1: me to like go Nazi just to be like the
Speaker 1: president of the Chamber of Commerce, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's like twenty percent of the Nazi Party. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like it's a city and it's the twenty percent who
Speaker 1: had all the money. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, you could.
Speaker 1: We can say something about the way various business associations
Speaker 1: and special economic districts are kind of like uh, reservoirs
Speaker 1: for fascism in the modern American context. These are the
Speaker 1: people pushing to put a lot of homeless folks in
Speaker 1: camps and stuff. Um. And how a lot of Carl
Speaker 1: Mengelas are still out there. Um, so that's good stuff anyway. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the Nazis. The Nazis get electoral power in Weimar thanks
Speaker 1: in large part to the fact that people like Carl
Speaker 1: are there to help fund them. Um. And also people
Speaker 1: like Carl, these upright businessmen who are not like wild
Speaker 1: eyed Nazi mystics, right, they're not shouting all of the
Speaker 1: crazy shit. So normal conservatives are like, well, Carl's now
Speaker 1: with the Nazis. So I guess maybe they're okay, you
Speaker 1: know he's yeah, Um, look at all the eggs he eats. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he's this guy's got money, he's eating all the eggs.
Speaker 1: Maybe there's something maybe this Hitler guys gonna take us
Speaker 1: some good places. Um. So for his part, Joseph's affluence
Speaker 1: allowed him to avoid all of the traumas of the
Speaker 1: era he was raised in. You know, the Wimar years
Speaker 1: are a tumultuous period for most Germans. He is not
Speaker 1: ever starving, His family is not ever dealing with like
Speaker 1: the inflation hits them too, but it's not causing them
Speaker 1: to be unable to pay for things that they need. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: like eggs and so he has a happy childhood. His
Speaker 1: family tends to recall him as a sunny and fun
Speaker 1: loving child. Um. He liked to ride horses. His favorite
Speaker 1: way to help out the family business was to pull
Speaker 1: company transports away from the railroad on his draft horse.
Speaker 1: Very early, he's he's doing railroad shit, which is unfortunate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was just like, you know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is about trains, but I just just feel drawn
Speaker 1: to him. Yeah. So, Matt, this is gonna be a
Speaker 1: bleak story, but I have some good news for you.
Speaker 1: I have some really good news for you. This is
Speaker 1: gonna make everything a lot easier for us because it no,
Speaker 1: it's it's a nickname. Joseph Mengela has a nickname, and
Speaker 1: his nickname is Beppo, which is Italian for Giuseppe or
Speaker 1: Joseph and also is why the Bucca to Beppo chain
Speaker 1: of Italian restaurants, which is part of A proud Ash's
Speaker 1: culinary conditioner, is named that they're named in his honor.
Speaker 1: You can look it up. Yeah, well, Buca Beppo literally
Speaker 1: means Beppo's hole, which is referring to Joseph Mangela's throat
Speaker 1: because he loved pasta so much. Look it up. Look
Speaker 1: it up. Yeah, I believe it. I believe it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was a throat coat, you know, proto throat Buca
Speaker 1: de Beppo. When you're here, you're a Nazi. A lot
Speaker 1: of people don't know this. Every thousand dollars you spend
Speaker 1: at Bucca de Beppo restaurants buys a sea mine to
Speaker 1: blow up a transport taking migrants from the north coast
Speaker 1: of Africa to Italy. I think guarantee. Yeah, so did
Speaker 1: we did we succeed in getting that big, big Beppo
Speaker 1: sponsorship Yet for some reason I haven't heard back. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe Olive Garden will take us one. I mean, we go.
Speaker 1: You gotta keep trying. I mean, they have such big
Speaker 1: plates of pasta, massive flots of bust, but do it
Speaker 1: in front of the jewel So Bepo was a gifted student.
Speaker 1: He was never quite top of his class, which is
Speaker 1: also a thing you see with a lot of these
Speaker 1: like Nazi functionaries, where like they do okay in school,
Speaker 1: but they're never quite the best. That's one of the
Speaker 1: things Nazism offers people who feel like they should have Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel I did okay, but I feel like i
Speaker 1: should have done better based on the fact that I'm white.
Speaker 1: The Nazis will make me feel special exactly. Yeah, these students,
Speaker 1: people think you all, I don't know, seconds tier joins
Speaker 1: the Nazis, and we'll convince you that. Nah, you deserve
Speaker 1: to be in the first tier. Yeah, well we'll give
Speaker 1: you a chance to conduct the invasion of Russia and yeah,
Speaker 1: because you deserve to get better grades. So he was
Speaker 1: a he likes music. One of the things he does
Speaker 1: when he's a little kid is he writes a airy
Speaker 1: tale to put on for the benefit of a local orphanage. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's going to have a lot of stories that involve
Speaker 1: orphanages over the next few years. Yeah. Yeah, less nice
Speaker 1: than others mostly, Yeah, a couple. So he was as
Speaker 1: community oriented as was pretty normal for a German kid
Speaker 1: from his class. In those days, he joins the Red
Speaker 1: Cross as a volunteer. He's in the gross Deutsche Jugenbund,
Speaker 1: which is a boy Scouts analog that was pretty fascist.
Speaker 1: He eventually becomes the leader of his town's Yugenbund chapter,
Speaker 1: which consisted of sixty boys and thirty girls. So, hey,
Speaker 1: you know they're at least a mixed gender. That's good.
Speaker 1: Look at that. Yeah, you know, good for you, Yugen Boond. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe they'll be all right. Yeah. So Joseph would later
Speaker 1: reminisce over one of the Solstice celebrations that he organized
Speaker 1: for the Yugen Boond and oh boy, Matt quote, we
Speaker 1: were proud of our big solstice fire, which blazed into
Speaker 1: the heavens on a ridge opposite the hometown, announcing that
Speaker 1: a small group of boys and girls today celebrated the
Speaker 1: Solstice with fervent thoughts and desires in their hearts to
Speaker 1: awaken and arouse the people of their homeland to the
Speaker 1: holy struggle of liberation from the shackles of the nefarious
Speaker 1: Versailles Treaty. The fame should the flames should liberate us
Speaker 1: and illuminate our way. They should warm us with the
Speaker 1: love of our great people. And of its high culture,
Speaker 1: and they should incinerate all discord among us Germans. Look,
Speaker 1: I brought punch speaking like this, people going to make smalls.
Speaker 1: But now things have gotten died. So this was a
Speaker 1: bun file by this guy talking about it dest So yeah,
Speaker 1: I should note that the hugen Bound did not accept Jews, because,
Speaker 1: as Joseph would explain later in his diary, the quote
Speaker 1: characteristic qualities of the German people could not be expressed
Speaker 1: if there was alien incrustation allowed to flourish. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: can't say the K word. Yeah, that's literally just like,
Speaker 1: oh she's a Jews came. Also, we can't tell our
Speaker 1: killer Joe. Yeah. Now you could look at this and say, like, ah,
Speaker 1: obviously he was going to grow into a Nazi, but
Speaker 1: historians will note that, like this is pretty normal German
Speaker 1: anti Semitism, Like this, this is pretty normal for the
Speaker 1: people who don't become Nazis. Like the fact that this
Speaker 1: is a part of his his upbringing. Obviously it influences
Speaker 1: the Nazi he becomes. But we shouldn't pretend like he
Speaker 1: was being directed into fascism. It was more that like
Speaker 1: this was like all over the fucking place, people were
Speaker 1: racist as out right. Yeah, you can't just look at Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just part of the norm. It was the normal.
Speaker 1: Everyone was. There's communists who have this childhood right in
Speaker 1: this period, people who grow up to be communist who
Speaker 1: who have experiences like this. It's not uncommon. Um. Obviously
Speaker 1: those people often did a much better job of getting
Speaker 1: past it. But like he has a pretty normal upbringing
Speaker 1: racism wise, Um, you hand to Jews the normal amount
Speaker 1: just hate Jews, normal amount. Yeah, yeah, fine, I can
Speaker 1: live with the normal amount. Well yeah, maybe put a
Speaker 1: pin in that one man. So, given that this was
Speaker 1: the very early nineteen hundreds, Joseph's young life also had
Speaker 1: its requisite brushes with death. When he was six, Beppo
Speaker 1: fell into a rain barrel and very nearly drowned. Um, comrade, comrade,
Speaker 1: anti fascist rain barrel. Tried it shried. How do you
Speaker 1: fall into a rain barrel? Beppo? Just a flag with
Speaker 1: a rain barrel that says, I tried the fascist rain.
Speaker 1: It did its best. It did more than us, you know,
Speaker 1: it did more to try to stop Mangola. Um. And
Speaker 1: it's going to this rain barrel Incident's gonna linger with
Speaker 1: him for a while because he gets a case of rain. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he winds up sick after this and kind of
Speaker 1: like a long series of illnesses leads him to getting
Speaker 1: steel myelitis, which is a bone marrow inflammation. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so he's going to be after this rain barrel incident,
Speaker 1: and like some incidents that come after it, he's going
Speaker 1: to be like a really sick kid all told. Though
Speaker 1: he's on what you might call the precocious gifted kid
Speaker 1: track in school. He earns really good grades in primary school,
Speaker 1: kind of average grage, and his secondary school because he's
Speaker 1: absent so often because he's sick, he gets kidney infections
Speaker 1: all because of the barrel. And anyway, all of the
Speaker 1: health problems leads to his family sitting down and being like, well,
Speaker 1: we wanted him to run the company, but he's kind
Speaker 1: of like always dying, So maybe maybe we give his
Speaker 1: little brother the company and he can just figure his
Speaker 1: own shit out if he ever stops dying. That's the
Speaker 1: decision his very German family makes, and so Aloys is
Speaker 1: groomed to lead the family firm, and Joseph, as he
Speaker 1: nears graduation, is forced to find something new to do
Speaker 1: with his life. It isn't right about this in detail.
Speaker 1: He seems to have been kind of ashamed of this.
Speaker 1: I think this really fucked him up, and to be honest,
Speaker 1: it fucked a lot of us up because we would
Speaker 1: all prefer Joseph Mangola Farming Machine manufacturiously dude on one
Speaker 1: of the greatest mistakes ever is now just giving him
Speaker 1: control of the company. Yeah, let me invented some nice
Speaker 1: combination have tractors or shit, you know, yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 1: would have been fine. Questions and at plants at the
Speaker 1: same time. The combination machine you need. Um, speaking of
Speaker 1: combination machines, you know, Mangola Machine Works makes an incredible
Speaker 1: range of domestic plows, of threshing machines, of mowers. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, why don't we why don't we have our
Speaker 1: sponsors at Mangola just kind of cut in here and
Speaker 1: throwing ahead. They get a promo code for you. Um,
Speaker 1: so if you want twenty percent off of Mangola products,
Speaker 1: just enter promo code. Not that Mangola. Wow, ah, we're back,
Speaker 1: so good stuff. So, as he's kind of nearing graduation
Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what he's going to do
Speaker 1: with his life now that the thing he'd prepared for
Speaker 1: as a child was not a possibility for him anymore.
Speaker 1: Joseph thought back off into his favorite high school teacher, Uri,
Speaker 1: a gifted educator who, to the detriment of all mankind,
Speaker 1: succeeded in sparking in Joseph a lifelong love of the sciences. Um, again,
Speaker 1: never teach children. It's a horrible idea. This is this
Speaker 1: is why I'm against women in stem because I don't
Speaker 1: want them to become Mangolas. It's that simple that it, Um,
Speaker 1: and no one in science know. This is why we
Speaker 1: need to put more lead in the gasoline. Yeah, make
Speaker 1: it impossible for people to do science, and we'll solve
Speaker 1: all of our problems. Yeah exactly. Yeah, you know, we'll
Speaker 1: just have plagues every now and then. But a plague's
Speaker 1: nobody's fault, you know. Yeah, that's God. Yeah, that's God.
Speaker 1: He's probably angry at us because we didn't pray enough
Speaker 1: for rain or something. You know, who knows. Maybe we
Speaker 1: gotta up now, yea, Now we're sacrificing people again. It
Speaker 1: all comes back to child sacrifice, one way or the other.
Speaker 1: So Yuri teaches him to love science, which would prove
Speaker 1: to be a horrible mistake, and as he ends the
Speaker 1: nears the end of his primary school days, which the
Speaker 1: Germans called gymnasium um. Joseph's favorite subjects are all hard science.
Speaker 1: He especially loved zoology and biology, but his favorite course
Speaker 1: of study was the budding new discipline of anthropology. Oh boy, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote now from David Marwell's Mangola. In April
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty, he passed his abatur the high school exams
Speaker 1: with a promising but an exceptional grade. His father had
Speaker 1: counseled him that counted was what one achieved, not what
Speaker 1: one set out to achieve. Initially, Joseph considered becoming a dentist,
Speaker 1: since he was convinced it would be very profitable. There
Speaker 1: was not even one dentist in my native town. But
Speaker 1: after discussions with his school friend Julius Diceback, a young Mangelt,
Speaker 1: decided dentistry was too specialized. He opted instead from medicine,
Speaker 1: with an emphasis on anthropology and human genetics. So I
Speaker 1: can study the whole range of medicine. Thus, Joseph, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's good. That. Yeah, don't go specific. You don't want
Speaker 1: to be a specialist. You want to get real broad.
Speaker 1: And yeah, you want to get so broad that you're
Speaker 1: just taking wild guesses based on Yeah, you want to
Speaker 1: convince yourself that you have a much deeper understanding than
Speaker 1: you do, because you you skimmed a couple of textbooks
Speaker 1: about like very history and race and ear shape. That's
Speaker 1: going to be good for you. So part of why
Speaker 1: he's drawn to this so much is that no one
Speaker 1: in his family had done anything like this. There weren't
Speaker 1: any PhDs in his family. There weren't any scientists in
Speaker 1: his family. He brags to his friend des Back. My
Speaker 1: family will be very impressed when I become the very
Speaker 1: first Mangelis scientist. Yes, people will remember the name doctor Mangela.
Speaker 1: He's not wrong. There is a bunch of shit he
Speaker 1: writes when he's young about how I want people to
Speaker 1: remember my name and mission accomplished. He didn't, buddy. So
Speaker 1: this is where we're going to have to have the
Speaker 1: first of a couple of detours, because you can't tell
Speaker 1: the story of Joey Mang's properly without telling the story
Speaker 1: of anthropological sciences in the late eighteen hundreds in early
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds and how they became wedded to nationalist politics
Speaker 1: in the post war German state. The origins of race science,
Speaker 1: as Mangela came to do, it actually start back in
Speaker 1: like the seventeen hundreds. One of the earliest developments in
Speaker 1: what will become Mangalis field happened in seventeen twenty seven
Speaker 1: when the Earl of Boulanvillier attempted to make a scientific
Speaker 1: argument that the French nobility were descended from a superior race,
Speaker 1: some long headed Nordics. The French peasantry, he argued, were
Speaker 1: just descended from the Gaulls that Caesar had beaten, and
Speaker 1: thus the rule of the French royal family was enshrined
Speaker 1: in immutable biological law. Wait, hold on, are you trying
Speaker 1: to tell me that science was just used in order
Speaker 1: to justify royal nobility and king's rules. Yeah. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: kind of like the root of a lot of genetics science.
Speaker 1: In addition to the stuff that was like I want
Speaker 1: to see if we can crossbreed peas, which is you know,
Speaker 1: groundbreaking work, was also like, oh maybe this will allow
Speaker 1: us to find another reason why we should never, never
Speaker 1: not be in charge. Well, you gotta take you good
Speaker 1: with the bad. Yeah, yeah, that's really the history of
Speaker 1: genetics in a nutshell. Yeah, you gotta take good with
Speaker 1: the bad. I mean, you know, you gotta assure genocides
Speaker 1: here and there. But also seedless watermelon, also seedless watermelons. Exact. Look,
Speaker 1: you get some seedless watermelons, you get you know, hundreds
Speaker 1: of thousands of people being burnt to a crisp and Auschwitz.
Speaker 1: Who's to say, you know, who's to say? And if
Speaker 1: you know, if you think and dwell on that and
Speaker 1: you feel bad, smoke some sense, Amelia, dude. Yeahs. Seedless
Speaker 1: weed also bred using the great science of Galton or Lynette,
Speaker 1: yeah whatever. I think it was Galton who did that shit.
Speaker 1: So his argument the Earl of Boulognevillier or whatever did
Speaker 1: not spread that far beyond France, but the work of
Speaker 1: early naturalists would provide a shot in the arm for
Speaker 1: future rich assholes looking to make similar arguments to justify subjugation.
Speaker 1: One of the first scientists in this field who's not
Speaker 1: a bastard, was the father of modern taxonomy and binomial nomenclature,
Speaker 1: Careless Linnaeus, who you probably heard about in middle school
Speaker 1: or high school. Careless obviously not a Nazi, he saw,
Speaker 1: you know. And in fact, there's some really progressive attitudes
Speaker 1: towards what he thought about the world. He saw humanity
Speaker 1: as another species in the animal kingdom, which, given the
Speaker 1: way Christians talked about animals in this period of time,
Speaker 1: was a pretty noteworthy belief. Um Linnaeus noted that there
Speaker 1: were many subspecies of other mammals, like dogs and cats.
Speaker 1: You know, you've got wolves, and you've got coyotes, and
Speaker 1: you've got all these different an I don't know if
Speaker 1: he used that specific example, but that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: and he was like, well, you should probably categorize humans
Speaker 1: the same way, which, given the era of science he's in,
Speaker 1: is not a bad thing, but it's gonna cause some
Speaker 1: problems later because he divides the human race into four
Speaker 1: subspecies European, American, Asiatic, and African. Um. I don't think
Speaker 1: careless means much by it, but it's gonna become a problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he tried his best, but I
Speaker 1: gotta say that classification is a bit careless. Oh oh sorry, Wow,
Speaker 1: sounds like all right, move on, No, you know what,
Speaker 1: that's a T shirt right there. Um, yeah, we'll figure
Speaker 1: it out all of that, put it all in a shirt.
Speaker 1: So Linnaeus is a Swede, and one of his most
Speaker 1: influential colleagues is a dutch Man, the anatomy professor Petrus Camper.
Speaker 1: Camper spent way too much time and Linnaeus again groundbreaking scientist.
Speaker 1: Uh Camper is a little sillier because one of the
Speaker 1: things this guy does is he spends a shitload of
Speaker 1: time looking at old statues like that the Greeks had
Speaker 1: made and being like, God, why are these people so hot?
Speaker 1: They must this must be this must be evidence that
Speaker 1: they are like the master race and we've all we're
Speaker 1: all like like descendants of them whose blood has been
Speaker 1: dirtied by race mixing. Is kind of just described the
Speaker 1: mindset of like so many times it's it's all it's yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: all of these like traditional vibes, Twitter accounts, They're like,
Speaker 1: look at the statue, Why do we look like this anymore?
Speaker 1: It's just what that's a normal penis side. It's very
Speaker 1: funny because like a thousand years from now, after you know,
Speaker 1: the nuclear or the mushroom plague or whatever gets us,
Speaker 1: some scientist is going to find old copies of US
Speaker 1: magazine and start doing a racial taxonomy. There's four subspecies.
Speaker 1: There's the Beyonce, there's the Pascal, there's the Cruise, and
Speaker 1: there's like yeah, no, seriously, they're just going to be
Speaker 1: like there were no flaws anywhere in their skin. Sometimes
Speaker 1: they had no belly button, which may have been a
Speaker 1: rush mistake. I'm just I'm just imagining, like year four thousand,
Speaker 1: Nazis like marching half naked under a banner of post malone,
Speaker 1: just looking at a bunch of fucking like old vines,
Speaker 1: being like you know, Zimaster race of z time sometimes
Speaker 1: had this, Uh, they had dog ears and when they
Speaker 1: would open their mouth a tongue would roll out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and as they would have zipuch of flies around their eyes.
Speaker 1: So future mixing has destroyed us future Catholic stained glass release.
Speaker 1: Instead of like having the halos above their head, they're
Speaker 1: just all yasified, salsified Jesus. It was seventeen ninety five
Speaker 1: that we first get the term Caucasian, coined by Johann Blumenbach,
Speaker 1: who was, of course a German. Blumenbach used the term
Speaker 1: to quote describe the variety of mankind that originated on
Speaker 1: the southern slopes of Mount Caucasus along eastern Europe's eastern border.
Speaker 1: He described Caucasians as the original race and the most beautiful.
Speaker 1: Now okay, well yeah, here we go. Yep, we're off
Speaker 1: to the races now, man, let's do it. None of
Speaker 1: this can be separated by from the Atlantic slave trade,
Speaker 1: which is starting to roar at the time, or from
Speaker 1: the ongoing genocides in the Americas, both of which cry
Speaker 1: out for a scientific, rational explanation that lets enlightenment Europeans
Speaker 1: feel good about the crimes against humanity there committee right,
Speaker 1: It would be one thing to be like, I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: look back at the Romans, look back at like fucking Hanschi,
Speaker 1: look at people forever. We always are murdering and raping
Speaker 1: and and slaving each other. We're just like that. But
Speaker 1: Europeans don't want to do that. They want to be
Speaker 1: like no, but we're liberals. Yeah, we want to there's
Speaker 1: a scientific reason we should be doing. Yeah, we read
Speaker 1: philosophy and we understand, you know, how precious the human
Speaker 1: soul is. Yeah, but I think science as those guys
Speaker 1: are not humans. So yeah, kill yeah. Yeah. It's really
Speaker 1: easier for someone else to make my drinks for me.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna I'm gonna write a lot of books exactly, dude,
Speaker 1: that's why you is just to justify exploiting every person.
Speaker 1: This is like fully half of genetic science. Yes, um so.
Speaker 1: In the eighteen hundreds a generation of scientists arose that
Speaker 1: took the start Bloominbach and Camper and Linaeus had made
Speaker 1: and extended their conclusions much further. Samuel Morton theorized in
Speaker 1: the mid eighteen hundreds that intelligent was linked to brain size,
Speaker 1: declaring that white people had larger skulls and with a
Speaker 1: superior yeah this is okay, He's like, this is like
Speaker 1: one of the one of the precursors to phrenology for sure. Yea.
Speaker 1: Morton's work is quoted and shared extensively by journalists and
Speaker 1: teachers in the era, and it becomes accepted as settled
Speaker 1: science by a lot of white people. Now, there was
Speaker 1: disagreement even in this period by principled men of science
Speaker 1: like Friedrich Tiedeman, who is also a German. To be fair, like,
Speaker 1: the Germans are on both sides of this fighting against
Speaker 1: it as well, and Teteman, using the very best scientific
Speaker 1: methods of the day, tries to replicate Morton's research about
Speaker 1: like you know, well, obviously white people have the biggest brains,
Speaker 1: and he can't repeat it. Repeatability as a cornerstone of
Speaker 1: the scientific method, the whole thing, Yes, it's a big
Speaker 1: part of it. Yeah, and he can't do it. So
Speaker 1: he's like, I'm gonna quote actually from a write up
Speaker 1: and facing history that kind of summarizes this. He also
Speaker 1: found no evidence for the racial hierarchy, a kind of
Speaker 1: racial lad on which Caucasians always stood at the top
Speaker 1: and Africans at the bottom, that Morton had claimed to uncover.
Speaker 1: Tetaman's work did not attract much attention. It was largely
Speaker 1: ignored or dismissed as unscientific. Um. But I don't think
Speaker 1: we should I think, like, as much shit as we're
Speaker 1: going to rightfully give the German scientific establishment this episodes,
Speaker 1: we should note there are always guys like Teetaman being like,
Speaker 1: fuck this shit, what are you talking about? People are
Speaker 1: like idiots, like not true, and he's not right, yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's not the whole idea of like, you know,
Speaker 1: on its face, it is just the dumbest, funniest thing
Speaker 1: that these guys are scientists and they're going, oh, the
Speaker 1: bigger brain may make more smart and I'm just like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck are you? Like, it's like the same
Speaker 1: reason that people, you know, green like movies like The
Speaker 1: Meg where they're like, what if shark big? Yeah, your
Speaker 1: shark better shark. It's like very stupid. You gotta be
Speaker 1: kind of you gotta you gotta be kind of a
Speaker 1: dumb guy to be like yeah, big brain. Yeah. A
Speaker 1: lot of it's just like you know, the the under
Speaker 1: like this kind of belief that I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people, particularly people who are kind of inherently conservative,
Speaker 1: have that, Like it's uncomfortable thinking that there might be
Speaker 1: other equally valid ways to live that are also require
Speaker 1: an equal but different level of development and scientific understanding.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite examples of this, there's a great story.
Speaker 1: There's this place in God it's somewhere in the Amazon.
Speaker 1: I forget exactly which modern day country it's in, but
Speaker 1: it's generally known to anthropologists archaeologists. Is the lost city
Speaker 1: of z that like they were in like the late
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, I think early nineteen hundreds, a bunch of
Speaker 1: these you know, exploration age Western scientists are always trying
Speaker 1: to find because I think they're supposed to be gold
Speaker 1: there or some shit. And one of the guys who's
Speaker 1: who's looking for at the most, does like three trips there,
Speaker 1: and every one of them goes the same way. He
Speaker 1: enters the Amazon with like one hundred men and like
Speaker 1: six of them come out a year and a half later,
Speaker 1: and everyone else has died horribly and I'll like his
Speaker 1: third t been there. They're all starving, they're on the
Speaker 1: edge of death, they're sick, and they finally run into
Speaker 1: a group of natives who are like willing to talk
Speaker 1: with them. And the natives are like, you guys, look
Speaker 1: like shit, what's going on? And they're like this this
Speaker 1: jungle is a green desert. There's no food at all,
Speaker 1: and they like break like this. They've grabbed this plant
Speaker 1: and break it in half and like toss it in
Speaker 1: a pond and a bunch of fish float up to
Speaker 1: the top because the plant was full of a nurotoxin
Speaker 1: that they knew. You just dumped this in the water,
Speaker 1: stunts the fish. Then you just grab them. They're like, look,
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of food around here. What's wrong with
Speaker 1: you guys? Have you all just been dying and not
Speaker 1: not knowing this? Oh? Yeah, yeah, because yeah, I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: they had spent all of their time writing books about
Speaker 1: skull shape, whereas these people had spent their time figuring
Speaker 1: out how to turn their home into a fucking giant
Speaker 1: grocery store. Um. I don't know, I know what I
Speaker 1: find more impressive, but um, I mean Europeans do other
Speaker 1: stuff too, right, They make they make boats so that
Speaker 1: those are cool. Um. So that's how we get the
Speaker 1: movie master and commanders. So who's to say, right, you know, true,
Speaker 1: who's to say discount that that was a triumph? That
Speaker 1: was a triumph? Um that's occurring around this period of time. Um.
Speaker 1: And also, unfortunately, the scientists on that boat, the doctor
Speaker 1: guy probably had some race science books on that boat
Speaker 1: with him. Like, I mean, I'm afraid it's unavoidable. They
Speaker 1: have all sorts of books you can't so yeah, you
Speaker 1: can't fall to them. Um, I don't know, I've I've
Speaker 1: only read one of the books that that movie is
Speaker 1: based on. Good movie though, So Teetaman is not the
Speaker 1: only guy who's pushing back scientifically on the arguments of
Speaker 1: kind of scientific bigots in his period. Um. Now to
Speaker 1: be noteworthy the guys who are like arguing against some
Speaker 1: of this early race science. Their science is often bad too, right,
Speaker 1: the fact that they are like see properly, that their
Speaker 1: colleagues are making bad arguments doesn't mean their arguments are
Speaker 1: scientifically flawless. A good example of this is the seventh
Speaker 1: President of Princeton, Samuel Smith, who speculated that black people
Speaker 1: were human beings just like white people, and they were
Speaker 1: just black because a large freckle had spread over their
Speaker 1: entire body due to sun exposure. It's close, Okay, it's melanie.
Speaker 1: His heart is in the right place. Yeah, I get
Speaker 1: where he's yeah, yeah, he's not almost there. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: got pieces of it. So doctor Benjamin Rush meanwhile argued
Speaker 1: that all babies are born white and that black skin
Speaker 1: was the result of mild leprosy. Now this kind of
Speaker 1: shows how sloppy the scientific method is because, like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, you can just look at a baby, Like
Speaker 1: that's pretty easy to disprove. You can just look at
Speaker 1: a baby, but you know whatever, as a general rule,
Speaker 1: the scientists arguing that they were perceived. So basically you
Speaker 1: have kind of two groups here. You have the scientists
Speaker 1: arguing there is a racial hierarchy and these are different subspecies, right,
Speaker 1: and you have the scientists are arguing that like all
Speaker 1: of the differences that we see are the result of
Speaker 1: either nurture or environmental exposure, not immutable characteristics. And the
Speaker 1: ones who are making that argument, even when their science
Speaker 1: is bad, are at least less likely to espouse racism
Speaker 1: to justify entrenched power structures. Now that doesn't mean it
Speaker 1: doesn't happen, because a decent chunk of like the people
Speaker 1: arguing for slavery and the eighteen hundreds are being like, oh, eventually,
Speaker 1: will you raise them up to be our equals. It's
Speaker 1: just we have to keep them enslaved until then. So
Speaker 1: that is like, you know, there's a lot of different
Speaker 1: things being said in this period. Yeah, so there's a
Speaker 1: lot of cool stuff happening in early race science. One
Speaker 1: of my favorite guys here is Lord Munbado, a Scottish
Speaker 1: philosopher who believed that he's one of these guys who
Speaker 1: it's all about environmental exposure and what like nurture and stuff.
Speaker 1: And his big argument is that like, one day we
Speaker 1: will train chimpanzees to be integrated into society, like we'll
Speaker 1: have chimpanzees in parliaments. Like God, I wish he'd been right, honestly,
Speaker 1: I like where his brain's gone with that. I wish
Speaker 1: he'd been right, Yeah, because I mean, they do a
Speaker 1: better job than those clowns and Congress, that's right, I
Speaker 1: mean I would, I would. I would vote for any
Speaker 1: living chimpanzee over almost any living Congress. Probably don't have
Speaker 1: to ask the CEO of TikTok if their phones connect
Speaker 1: to Wi Fi. No, they're just happy to look at
Speaker 1: the dancing lights, you know exactly, they don't. They don't
Speaker 1: care about Wi Fi. They're they're chimpanzees and they're not cowards,
Speaker 1: and if they really disagree with someone, they will tear
Speaker 1: them limb from Oh man, can you imagine if we
Speaker 1: had like Congress fights like we had in the eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 1: but with a bunch of chimps, would be the number
Speaker 1: one that's all I watch. I would just go into
Speaker 1: Congress and like, toss a bunch of bananas in the
Speaker 1: middle of the floor. Let's get them fighting. I feel
Speaker 1: like the champanzees wouldn't go, what are you going to
Speaker 1: do about fin stuff? Yeah? Right? Embarrassing? No, no, it
Speaker 1: is embarrassing. We would have a lot more land devoted
Speaker 1: to banana cultivation. Um. I feel like they don't actually
Speaker 1: eat bananas and I heard that at some point, but
Speaker 1: fuck it. Like, look, whenever we get something like this wrong,
Speaker 1: it gives some beautiful redator a chance to be like, well, actually,
Speaker 1: and God, God bless you. I just want to make
Speaker 1: you people happy. So yeah, you should do all of
Speaker 1: these scientists now though, you know, Sophie Robert, Yes, we're back.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, I was waiting for a speaking of bananas
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah. So there's a lot of scientists in
Speaker 1: this period, the kind of anti race science, guys who
Speaker 1: believe that all of the differences between men and women
Speaker 1: in between different races that they believe existed would be
Speaker 1: reduced by social reform and legislation. And you can see
Speaker 1: kind of evidence of this in the French Revolution, these
Speaker 1: ideas of liberty, egality, and fraternity, the fact that it
Speaker 1: comes to like increased civil rights to Jewish people in
Speaker 1: the French Empire. These are all results of that intellectual tradition.
Speaker 1: But progressive ideals like this always have their limits, and again,
Speaker 1: slave owners would use versions of this argument to justify
Speaker 1: aspects of what they were doing. Once slavery falls in
Speaker 1: the United States, there's kind of a panic among a
Speaker 1: lot of people that race mixing is going to occur
Speaker 1: and thus would disastrously water down the potential of the species.
Speaker 1: Racial hygiene became a common topic of discussion among medical
Speaker 1: professionals in the late eighteen hundreds, and the two countries
Speaker 1: most associated with this movement are the United States and Germany. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's so shocking. Oh my god. Yeah, and I think, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not my America. Guy, My Americas and made up
Speaker 1: of all of the things, yeah, of my morals. So
Speaker 1: my America, you know, doesn't have stockrooms full of skulls
Speaker 1: of people that came from somewhere. Not in my America's
Speaker 1: end of milk and honey. You know, we'll talk. We
Speaker 1: have talked about race science in the United States and
Speaker 1: number of times. But right now we're getting back to Germany.
Speaker 1: So the Kaiser's Germany had started to invest in research
Speaker 1: on racial heredity a few years prior to World War One.
Speaker 1: Actually the year before Joseph Mengela is born, the Reich
Speaker 1: Health Office puts together a file on russ and hygiene,
Speaker 1: which actually sounds more racist than race hygiene. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's much worse than the German Yeah, it's so. It
Speaker 1: included studies on population control and papers on racial differences
Speaker 1: between Germans and Jews. Now, the kaiser Reich very racist.
Speaker 1: This is evidence of that. But when the war comes,
Speaker 1: all of this kind of talk of differences it doesn't
Speaker 1: go away, but it fades a lot because the Germans
Speaker 1: are suddenly like, you know, who dies exactly the same
Speaker 1: in front of a machine gun, Jews and Germans, and
Speaker 1: we need a lot more of both. If we've got
Speaker 1: to get rid of all these allied boets, we'll have
Speaker 1: opposable thumbs and a little index finger. They go pp
Speaker 1: the Jews and the Germans. We could all do it.
Speaker 1: Let's table the racing for a second for a little bit,
Speaker 1: figure out how to you know, take over Europe, I
Speaker 1: mean kind of Famously, Hitler gets awarded his Iron Cross
Speaker 1: in part due to the intervention of his officer, who's
Speaker 1: a Jewish Man. Like this is a the kaiser Reich.
Speaker 1: A lot of this stuff still exists. It's budding, it's building,
Speaker 1: but it's also not like the same as it's going
Speaker 1: to be. So as a result, it's during the Weimar
Speaker 1: years that things really take a leap forward. In nineteen twenty,
Speaker 1: the Prussian Interior Council creates a Council on Racial Hygiene
Speaker 1: to discuss how to grow the German population and halt
Speaker 1: illegal abortion. While such work always had support from the
Speaker 1: right initially at least, there is significant interest among scientists
Speaker 1: across the ideological spectrum. And to make that point, I'm
Speaker 1: going to quote now from Robert Proctor's book Racial Hygiene Medicine.
Speaker 1: Under the Nazis, many racial hygienists supported a kind of
Speaker 1: state socialism, whereby a strong central government would direct social
Speaker 1: policy towards programs to improve the race. The Society for
Speaker 1: Racial Hygiene allied itself with a number of groups advocating
Speaker 1: social reform. Conversely, many of those today remembered as progressives
Speaker 1: were attracted by the movement to improve the health of
Speaker 1: the race. Alfred Grotjohn, for example, today considered the father
Speaker 1: of German social medicine and one of the leading architects
Speaker 1: of Imar Germany's progressive health reforms, saw racial hygiene as
Speaker 1: a legitimate concern of medicine. He was one of those
Speaker 1: who defended the use of the term eugenics rather than
Speaker 1: racial hygiene, in order to avoid confusion with racist notions
Speaker 1: of the political anthropological variety. According to Grotjhon. Racial hygiene
Speaker 1: would provide long range preventative medicine for the germ plasm
Speaker 1: of humanity that would complement both traditional curative medical care
Speaker 1: and concerns for the human physical and social environment provided
Speaker 1: by public health and social medicine. Racial hygiene, along with
Speaker 1: social hygiene and personal hygiene, was simply one element in
Speaker 1: a larger, more comprehensive program of human healthcare. Grow John's
Speaker 1: views earned him the respect of more devout Rachel hygienasists.
Speaker 1: He was one of the few social hygiensists in the
Speaker 1: Weimar Republic willing to advocate compulsory sterilization. He also advocated
Speaker 1: for increased powers to commit upwards of a million defective
Speaker 1: A socials to psychiatric institutions. After nineteen thirty three, German
Speaker 1: theorists there are Nazi racial theorists were able to turn
Speaker 1: to grow John as an example of a socialist who
Speaker 1: supported strong measures in the field of racial hygiene. So
Speaker 1: this is a thing that doesn't get talked about enough.
Speaker 1: That is the father of the German welfare state. In
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, grow John, and at least in
Speaker 1: the healthcare portion of it. He is a social democrat
Speaker 1: and he is in favor of committing a million a
Speaker 1: social people involuntarily to institutions and sterilizing in mass people
Speaker 1: head of views as defective. The same thing as brushing
Speaker 1: your teeth. Yeah, it's the same. It's the same as
Speaker 1: any kind of hygiene. It's like taking a shower, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: take a shower, and then you you know, you round
Speaker 1: up people. Yeah, you start putting them in buses, camps, trains,
Speaker 1: and a lot of it's worth we taught when we
Speaker 1: talk about race science because of what happens, and because
Speaker 1: of all of the worst crimes are in fact committed
Speaker 1: by the Nazis when the right is in power, we
Speaker 1: do tend to ignore the fact that eugenics and race
Speaker 1: science in Germany are popular everywhere, including with communists. The
Speaker 1: idea of a planned genetic future is something that German
Speaker 1: communists are going to embrace as well for at least
Speaker 1: a period of time. And it's not just a German
Speaker 1: help themselves. No, well, it's not just the Germans either.
Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty five, the leadings there's a Soviet leading
Speaker 1: eugenics journal that publishes translations of German articles on racial
Speaker 1: hygiene with positive remarks and partly as a result of this,
Speaker 1: Wimar Germany and the Soviet Union establish a joint Institute
Speaker 1: for Racial Biology in Moscow between nineteen thirty one and
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight. There's overlap there with the Nazi years.
Speaker 1: There's a period of time and the point that, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's some sort of racial element for white people where
Speaker 1: they love race science. Yeah, I know how to work
Speaker 1: that into my worldview. And it's interesting. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is part of there's a bigger story here, which is
Speaker 1: like during the thirties, because both are kind of pariah nations,
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union and Weimar and the Nazi Germany actually
Speaker 1: have a lot going on together. Their militaries trained together,
Speaker 1: they do all sorts of like have all sorts of
Speaker 1: I mean, this is part of what kind of lays
Speaker 1: some of the bones for the Molotov ribbon trop packed.
Speaker 1: But race science is not absent from the Soviet Union
Speaker 1: in this period. Many people know that the Third reichs
Speaker 1: genocidal efforts began with the T four euthanasia program, in
Speaker 1: which people who were physically handicapped or seen as feeble
Speaker 1: minded were put to death in traveling gas vans. Less
Speaker 1: is known that in nineteen twenty eight. It was socialist
Speaker 1: doctor Ranier Fetcher who carried out some of the first
Speaker 1: sterilizations in German history. He is doing eugenic sterilizations on
Speaker 1: his own without any permission. He's like breaking the law
Speaker 1: to do this, and he's like a socialist activist. Now,
Speaker 1: the point here is not that socialists and Nazis had
Speaker 1: the same attitude towards eugenics. It's just that eugenics beliefs
Speaker 1: were popular even among socialists and communists. Yeah, obviously the
Speaker 1: Nazis are the ones who use these ideas to massacre
Speaker 1: twelve million people in the service of race science. I'm
Speaker 1: bringing this up because you have to note that when
Speaker 1: you're talking about the origins of these ideas that are
Speaker 1: accelerated by the Nazis and adopted by them, they are
Speaker 1: not controversial among a lot of science scientists, even scientists
Speaker 1: who find fascism abhorrent. There's a lot of anti fascist
Speaker 1: scientists who nonetheless believe the Nazis are not entirely wrong
Speaker 1: about race science. That's the period that we're in. So
Speaker 1: probably the most significant development in the early history of
Speaker 1: German race science is the establishment of the kaiser Villehelm
Speaker 1: Institute for Anthropology, Human Genetics and Eugenics Day Kaiser Permanente,
Speaker 1: Kaiser permanente. Yeah, yeah, that's what Kaiser permanente stands for,
Speaker 1: the permanent Kaiser. Actually, if they are responsible for your healthcare,
Speaker 1: you are legally a servant of the Kaiser. That's how
Speaker 1: it works. That's my insurience. Yeah. The Kaiser, by the way,
Speaker 1: now is an AI generated creature, because that AI is
Speaker 1: really able to go to I was going to do
Speaker 1: a hand I was going to do a hand joke,
Speaker 1: but you know what, that's not appropriate. Yeah, So that
Speaker 1: Kaiser Villehelm Institute gets started in nineteen twenty seven, also
Speaker 1: in Prussia, which is kind of the stronghold of militarist
Speaker 1: conservatism in Germany. Support for the institute came from the
Speaker 1: very top of the Weimar State, though, including the president
Speaker 1: of the State Health Office and its chief medical statistician,
Speaker 1: Emil Russell, who argued in favor of preventing marriage of
Speaker 1: the mentally ill to healthy Germans. This did not occur
Speaker 1: in a vacuum. Russell noted that England, Sweden, the United States,
Speaker 1: and Norway all had similar institutes doing similar things. When
Speaker 1: the Kaiser Villehelm Institute opened its doors. Eugene Fisher was
Speaker 1: appointed director. He was a nationalist Catholic, but not a
Speaker 1: Nazi early on, and in fact, a lot of his
Speaker 1: early research is kind of contra to the conclusions the
Speaker 1: Nazis are making. One of the things he'll argue is
Speaker 1: that hybridization leads to better health in European races. Like
Speaker 1: he does a bunch of studies about oh, actually, when
Speaker 1: you're like when you've got Germans and you know, Slavs
Speaker 1: and English and we're all breeding, everything turns out better.
Speaker 1: That's one of the things this guy argues. He's kind
Speaker 1: of an interesting guy. He One of the things he
Speaker 1: notes is that like where it has remained the most pure,
Speaker 1: the Nordic race has brought forth no great cultural achievements,
Speaker 1: which is very much not a Nazi attitude. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love it. Yeah. And that said, he's going to once
Speaker 1: the Nazis take power, he's going to stop saying this
Speaker 1: ship and start pushing hard, hard core Nazi dogma. And
Speaker 1: he's going to bring in a lot of scientists who
Speaker 1: are just straight up Nazis. And the most influential of
Speaker 1: these is a guy named Otmar von Verschure, who is
Speaker 1: a war veteran and a member of the right wing
Speaker 1: fry Core paramilitary. He is also a scientist studying genetics
Speaker 1: and race who is particularly fascinated with twins. Oh boy,
Speaker 1: bom bom bomb. Oh god, yeah no, that's not Look,
Speaker 1: there's very rarely. Does it end well when people are
Speaker 1: fascinated with twins? Yeah, one way or the other. A
Speaker 1: lot of fucked up ship comes from that. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: Nazi experiments or being weirdly attracted to those beer commercials
Speaker 1: exactly good. Yeah, or the double mint ones. So why
Speaker 1: people want to fuck twins? It's the it's the it's
Speaker 1: incest is going on. So now I'm not into it.
Speaker 1: I'm on record. Wow, that's a that's another T shirt.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, just a picture of your face. I'm not
Speaker 1: into twins. I'm not into twins, males, mad leam a
Speaker 1: statue of you breaking a packet of doublement gum in half.
Speaker 1: I'm a big guy. Now, Big reds that's an anti fascist,
Speaker 1: it really is. Big Red is literally Stalin's gum of choice.
Speaker 1: Now the anarchist gum is, of course, big league chew um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: look it up. Look it up. So after Hitler takes power,
Speaker 1: Fisher you know, starts going hardcore into the Nazi stuff.
Speaker 1: He praises the Nazis is the first political movement to
Speaker 1: recognize that culture is the product of quote the qualities
Speaker 1: of the race that has given rise to and carry
Speaker 1: it on that culture. Fisher draws a line between the
Speaker 1: Marxists and men of natural science and national socialism when
Speaker 1: he says the Marxist socialist view concerns itself with the
Speaker 1: single individual. We national Socialists, in contrast, concern ourselves with
Speaker 1: the family. Now go, there's a there's a Margaret Thatcher
Speaker 1: quote that all makes me think about, which is, there's
Speaker 1: no such thing as society. There are men and women,
Speaker 1: and there are families. But there's probably nothing to that.
Speaker 1: Probably nothing to that. He's a really relevant Margaret Thatcher
Speaker 1: quote when they about Nazi stuff. There really is. But
Speaker 1: that's a subject for another day. Let us return to
Speaker 1: our buddy, Joe Joe Mingie Pooh, so Joejoe Mengi ming Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Joe Joe the Mangola. So the Nazis are not in
Speaker 1: power when he joins Munich University as a student in
Speaker 1: philosophy and the medical schools, but they he's like doing
Speaker 1: an anthropology medical kind of thing where he's getting like
Speaker 1: his PhD and his MD kind of at the same time.
Speaker 1: It's easier to get both back then. So while the
Speaker 1: Nazis are not yet in power, race science is humming
Speaker 1: right along. When Joseph starts school, the Nazis are the
Speaker 1: second largest party in the reich Stock. He would later
Speaker 1: write about his early impressions of the National Socialist Party.
Speaker 1: I was not then old enough to vote. My political
Speaker 1: leanings were then, I think, for reasons of family tradition,
Speaker 1: national conservative. I had not joined any political organization, though
Speaker 1: indeed I was strongly attracted by the program and the
Speaker 1: whole organization of the National Socialists. But for the time
Speaker 1: being I remained an unorganized private person. But in the
Speaker 1: long run, it was impossible to stand aside in these
Speaker 1: politically stirring times. Should our fatherland not succumb to the
Speaker 1: Marxist Bolshevist attack, This simple political concept finally became the
Speaker 1: decisive factor in my life. So yeah, it all always
Speaker 1: starts with an obsession with anti communism with these guys
Speaker 1: really does, and of course Communism is Jewish in their eyes.
Speaker 1: So wow, one thing leads to another. Oh wow, wow,
Speaker 1: good God. Um, yes, jar jar, some people gonna die. Um,
Speaker 1: good God, good, good, good God. Matt, why pluggables to plug? Oh,
Speaker 1: you know the same stuff. You know, if you like
Speaker 1: the Sopranos or the Wire and you want to you know,
Speaker 1: rewatch it or just listen to guys you know, talk
Speaker 1: about it, pod yourself a gun. It is the world's
Speaker 1: only the Wire and uh, you know Sopranos podcast. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I plug that and um, you know, uh, I'll
Speaker 1: be all right, this is gonna be a fun one.
Speaker 1: I'm very excited, you know, I'm very excited for what's coming.
Speaker 1: And uh, I'm gonna just pet my child for a
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, I'm gonna pet a child too. I'll
Speaker 1: go find one. Yeah. I don't know how that wording
Speaker 1: is really good for you, buddy. No, So if I
Speaker 1: got a net it's fine. Um all right, Well that's
Speaker 1: gonna do it for us here at at Behind the Bastards.
Speaker 1: Um until next time, you know, um, there is it
Speaker 1: next time After that comment, fishing net works just as
Speaker 1: well on kids. Um. Anyway, repeating it really helps, it
Speaker 1: always does. God bless you all. Behind the Bastards is
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check
Speaker 1: us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.