Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic, and welcome to Next Question Today.
Speaker 1: Now to growing concerns about the deadly coronavirus officially hitting
Speaker 1: the US. Los Angeles County, where ten million people live,
Speaker 1: has declared a public health emergency. In Washington State, they
Speaker 1: are confirming now the first US death. There is a
Speaker 1: confirmed case here in New York City. Coronavirus is now
Speaker 1: in the nation's capital, Texas, Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Massachusetts. What
Speaker 1: began as a distant and mysterious illness in China at
Speaker 1: the end of twenty nineteen has made its way around
Speaker 1: the world and is now spreading across the US. As
Speaker 1: of this recording, the majority of states have confirmed cases
Speaker 1: of coronavirus that range from a few to hundreds. Here
Speaker 1: in New York City, where I live, there at least
Speaker 1: thirty six confirmed cases, and Mayor Bill de Blasio says
Speaker 1: they're coming in intensely. Just this week, I had my
Speaker 1: own brush with the virus, which is now officially called
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. On Saturday, March seven, I ran into an
Speaker 1: old friend, Rick Cotton, who's the head of the New
Speaker 1: York and New Jersey Port Authority. Two days later news
Speaker 1: broke that he had tested positive for COVID nineteen. We
Speaker 1: only had seen each other on the street very briefly
Speaker 1: and didn't have any physical contact, but still, in this climate,
Speaker 1: you can never be too careful. After I heard the news,
Speaker 1: I immediately went home and called the c d C.
Speaker 1: I also called the New York State Department of Health
Speaker 1: and spoke to my own doctor as well. In addition
Speaker 1: to them, I spoke to the first guest on this podcast.
Speaker 1: They all assured me I was at very low risk
Speaker 1: for contracting COVID nineteen and there was no need to
Speaker 1: self quarantine. So I'll continue to take the same precautions
Speaker 1: as you are, hopefully washing my hands, staying away from
Speaker 1: large crowds, and monitoring my symptoms. But all of this
Speaker 1: leads me to my next question, what is coronavirus and
Speaker 1: how can we protect ourselves and our loved ones. To
Speaker 1: understand more about COVID nineteen, I called up someone who's
Speaker 1: working on the front lines of this outbreak. Hi Maria, Hi,
Speaker 1: how are you to be there? So nice to hear
Speaker 1: your voice, you too. Dr Maria van Kirkhove is ahead
Speaker 1: of the Outbreak Investigation Task Force for the World Health Organization.
Speaker 1: She lives in Switzerland, but she traveled to China just
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago to study the virus. How would
Speaker 1: you assess the current situation with an understanding that it
Speaker 1: seems to change almost by the hour. Yes, so this
Speaker 1: is an evolving situation, you know. So this is this
Speaker 1: is an outbreak that began in December UM with a
Speaker 1: cluster of patients with pneumonia UM in Wuhan, China, and
Speaker 1: then it has spread to other parts of China. UM
Speaker 1: over the course of the month. In January, there were
Speaker 1: case says that were being detected in other parts of
Speaker 1: the world, mainly in Asia to begin with, but also
Speaker 1: in other countries. And this started with a travel link. UM.
Speaker 1: And this is we we we found cases that were
Speaker 1: identified in a number of countries, and the outbreak has
Speaker 1: grown since then. UM. What is interesting is that this
Speaker 1: is a new virus. UM. Very early on, the first
Speaker 1: cases were alerted to US in late December early January,
Speaker 1: but within a week, within one week, the Chinese authorities
Speaker 1: were able to identify that this was a new pathogen.
Speaker 1: This was a novel coronavirus. That's where that word comes from. UM.
Speaker 1: And that and that's very important. So they were able
Speaker 1: to identify that within a week using full genome sequencing,
Speaker 1: was looking at the parts of the virus itself UM,
Speaker 1: and in finding that new virus, they were able to
Speaker 1: share that with the world and say, this is a
Speaker 1: novel pathogen. Here's the sequence, which they made publicly available,
Speaker 1: and that allowed countries all over the world to develop
Speaker 1: PCR tests for laboratory detection tests so that they could
Speaker 1: start looking for that virus. What exactly is a pathogen? Ah,
Speaker 1: so the pathogen that we we normally call these pathogenes
Speaker 1: either viruses or bacteria. This new pathogen happens to be
Speaker 1: a virus. I lead a group on emerging diseases and zoonoses,
Speaker 1: and most of the new viruses that we find come
Speaker 1: from animals and they they spill over from an animal
Speaker 1: to human, and we were constantly on the lookout for
Speaker 1: new pathogens, new viruses that are infecting humans. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about this one. What animal was responsible for the coronavirus?
Speaker 1: As of today, we don't know, UM, but there's a
Speaker 1: lot of investigations right now that are looking for what
Speaker 1: was the animal source of this outbreak? UM. This is
Speaker 1: a coronavirus, and we know that coronaviruses have a link
Speaker 1: back to bats um. Most viruses, most viruses come from baths,
Speaker 1: but coronaviruses come from baths initially. But what we think
Speaker 1: happened here is that there was another animal, or what
Speaker 1: we call an intermediary host, that animal was infected, and
Speaker 1: that animal was responsible for infecting humans. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of investigations underway in animal markets because some of the
Speaker 1: initial cases in December UM had reported a link to
Speaker 1: one particular market, and so that gave us a clue
Speaker 1: that there could be an animal force. Tell us about
Speaker 1: how contagious this is compared to other pathogens you've just
Speaker 1: you've studied. So this is this This virus causes a
Speaker 1: respiratory disease, and so people who get sick have respiratory symptoms.
Speaker 1: And the way that it's transmitted between people is through
Speaker 1: droplets um, which means if you cough or if you
Speaker 1: sneeze on somebody, you are releasing some of these droplets
Speaker 1: from your mouth, these little droplets of fluid, and those
Speaker 1: droplets can go into the eye, his nose, and mouth
Speaker 1: of someone else if they're in close distance to you.
Speaker 1: Not in the air, but in they're actually in there
Speaker 1: within three feet of you or so UM and so
Speaker 1: if you're common contact with an infected person UM, you
Speaker 1: could potentially be infected by them. And what we know
Speaker 1: about this virus is that for every person who's infected,
Speaker 1: on average, they infect two to two and a half
Speaker 1: more people, and that means that you have the possibility
Speaker 1: for this outpret to take off. What's important to know
Speaker 1: here is that um it's a new virus, which means
Speaker 1: everyone is susceptible UM and so what we're trying to
Speaker 1: do with all of the information that we put out
Speaker 1: is to try to tell individuals what they can do
Speaker 1: to protect themselves from being infected. So everyone is susceptible
Speaker 1: because nobody has built up the immunities to prevent them
Speaker 1: from getting this virus. Having said that, um it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem as dangerous for young children as far as everything
Speaker 1: I've read, um and it's much more dangerous for either
Speaker 1: older people or those who have compromised immune systems. Is
Speaker 1: that accurate? Yes, that's right. What we know from initial
Speaker 1: data is yes, indeed, young children seem to not be
Speaker 1: infected as much UM or develop severe disease. So most
Speaker 1: of the children that we are learning about that are
Speaker 1: infected UM have a mild disease. We do know that
Speaker 1: people of older ages over sixty seventy eight years old UH,
Speaker 1: and people who have underlying conditions like cardiovascular disease, diabetes,
Speaker 1: chronic respiratory diseases have a higher risk of severe disease
Speaker 1: and death. You mentioned how it can be transferred from
Speaker 1: human to human. A lot of people are also concerned,
Speaker 1: Marie about how long it stays on surfaces. UM, what
Speaker 1: are you learning about that? So we are learning that
Speaker 1: this virus can stay on surfaces. So one of the
Speaker 1: ways that it gets on surfaces is if you cough
Speaker 1: or if you sneeze, These droplets come out of your
Speaker 1: mouth and they move some distance from you and then
Speaker 1: they settle down on surfaces UM, you know, like a tabletop,
Speaker 1: UM or a door knob for example. But they can
Speaker 1: be killed by disinfectants. So it's very important that surfaces
Speaker 1: are clean regularly with the chlorine bleach for example, UM,
Speaker 1: and then you can remove the virus from those surfaces.
Speaker 1: And what are you learning about the lifespan? Because I've
Speaker 1: heard everything from a few hours to several weeks in general,
Speaker 1: it's a few hours. I mean, well, it could be
Speaker 1: a few hours. I should qualify what that means. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean one or two hours. It could be up
Speaker 1: to a day or two. That's still hours. But that
Speaker 1: sounds like a really long time, doesn't it. I think, Katie,
Speaker 1: what's important is for people to know that they have
Speaker 1: some control over this. You know that they can um
Speaker 1: protect themselves, they can protect their families in a simple way.
Speaker 1: Is is regularly disinfecting your word space. You know, if
Speaker 1: you look at your keyboard and you look at your
Speaker 1: phone surface, making sure that that's clean, making sure your
Speaker 1: handlebars are are cleaned a few times per day, making
Speaker 1: sure you wash your hands. I mean, I know what
Speaker 1: people must be so tired of us saying this, but
Speaker 1: washing your hands with soap and water is a lifesaver,
Speaker 1: not just for COVID nineteen but for many things. And
Speaker 1: if you can't wash your hands, making sure you use
Speaker 1: an alcohol rub well. You know you mentioned and I
Speaker 1: noticed that things that are are cleansers are Purel. Sorry
Speaker 1: to use a brand name, but they're antibacterial. And if
Speaker 1: this is a virus, how does Purel protect you from
Speaker 1: from it? If it's in fact antibacterial. Well there are
Speaker 1: with the alcohol that's in these alcohol rubs, Um, you
Speaker 1: are removing that virus from from your hands. I mean,
Speaker 1: the best thing for you to do is wash your
Speaker 1: hands with soap and water and make sure you follow
Speaker 1: the steps and you get all of the surfaces of
Speaker 1: your hands and you can remove those viruses from your hands.
Speaker 1: But the alcohol rubbed alcohol has to be six or
Speaker 1: above alcohol and that will remove that virus from the
Speaker 1: from your hands. You were very kind to talk to
Speaker 1: me after I realized I had a sixty to ninety
Speaker 1: second conversation with someone who was later diagnosed with coronavirus
Speaker 1: and was probably about three feet away, didn't touch and
Speaker 1: basically just had a casual conversation. Can you please direct
Speaker 1: some of what you would say to people who are
Speaker 1: panicked that I actually, you know, was talking to somebody
Speaker 1: who was later diagnosed with coronavirus who at the time
Speaker 1: was it was asymptomatic. Yeah. So, so, first of all,
Speaker 1: it's it's important to acknowledge that people are scared. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of information that's out there, UM, some
Speaker 1: of it is accurate, much of it is inaccurate, UM,
Speaker 1: And people are scared. It's a new dis ease, it's
Speaker 1: a new virus UM, it's spreading around the world, and
Speaker 1: people people can be quite fearful of that. What's important
Speaker 1: for us to understand is, you know, why are people scared?
Speaker 1: What is it that makes them scared? To try to
Speaker 1: address some of those UM. The thing that you you've
Speaker 1: mentioned is you you've indicated the type of exposure that
Speaker 1: you may have had or you did have with this individual.
Speaker 1: Knowing what the risk is UM is really important. So
Speaker 1: you've indicated you know, the person was asymptomatic, you were
Speaker 1: more than three feet away. It was a very it
Speaker 1: was a very short encounter. You know. Putting all that
Speaker 1: into context, what's important for everyone to do is to
Speaker 1: assess their own risks. You know, look at what their
Speaker 1: exposure was, UM, what their potential exposure was, because most
Speaker 1: of the times it's even potential exposure is not actually
Speaker 1: real exposure to the virus. And then there's certain things
Speaker 1: you need to take into consideration. What is your age,
Speaker 1: what are your underlying conditions? UM? And then what do
Speaker 1: I do? So if you are concerned, what should I do? UM?
Speaker 1: And I think it's important that people know that they
Speaker 1: can contact their local health authorities UM Departments of Health. UM.
Speaker 1: You know within the US you have the U s C,
Speaker 1: d C. There are hotlines that you can call. You
Speaker 1: can call your own GP and ask the questions that
Speaker 1: here's here's my concern, here's my potential risk. What should
Speaker 1: I do? We need people to know what they can do.
Speaker 1: And what is different about this virus compared to flu
Speaker 1: is that containment is not possible with influenza, but containment
Speaker 1: is possible with this coronavirus. And the reason we can
Speaker 1: say that is because we've seen such incredible efforts by
Speaker 1: a number of countries, including China UM that have really
Speaker 1: showed us that transmission can be reduced, case numbers can
Speaker 1: go down, and in many parts of China they have
Speaker 1: their zero reporting cases. So what are they doing right?
Speaker 1: They have their entire population mobilized to against this. Every
Speaker 1: single person in the population knows what they can do
Speaker 1: in terms of these three things I mentioned, handwashing, respiratory etiquette,
Speaker 1: social distancing. UM. They're Chinese authorities and other countries. Is
Speaker 1: not just China that has shown us. Singapore is another
Speaker 1: good example. UM. They've shown that if you identify all
Speaker 1: of your cases and all of your contacts UM, and
Speaker 1: that they're isolated so that that you remove them from
Speaker 1: transmitting to other people, UM care for them, making sure
Speaker 1: they get appropriate clinical care, making sure that they're communicated
Speaker 1: with and so that they know what their risk is,
Speaker 1: and and and by keeping them either in quarantine or isolation,
Speaker 1: that they're they're performing a public health good. There's been
Speaker 1: a lot of suspension of public gatherings UM, and there's
Speaker 1: been some movement restrictions in several temporary movement restrictions in
Speaker 1: many cities across China, and so all of those that
Speaker 1: combination of of UM efforts has has driven down transmission UM.
Speaker 1: In some situations has been quite dream and we've seen
Speaker 1: that in Wuhan where we've seen a total lockdown of
Speaker 1: some cities, and you're hearing about some of this happening
Speaker 1: in Italy as well. But that restriction of movements of
Speaker 1: individuals prevents the spread UM of the viruses. So what
Speaker 1: we're doing for all countries, Katie, is we're talking to
Speaker 1: all of governments UM and saying the more aggressive action
Speaker 1: you have early on, the better chances you have to
Speaker 1: stop the outbreaks of starting UM. And we have evidence
Speaker 1: that this works in several countries and we want to
Speaker 1: see that happen in the rest of the world. So
Speaker 1: you mentioned UH self quarantine or quarantining populations. When should
Speaker 1: self quarantine or any kind of quarantine be put into effect?
Speaker 1: Who makes recommendations on this? But it's up to national
Speaker 1: governments to implements, and different governments have implemented different measures
Speaker 1: in this respect, so it's important to follow the national
Speaker 1: guidance of what each country recommends. UM. What you did
Speaker 1: in a perfect example of this is that you had
Speaker 1: an exposure and you went home and you self isolated
Speaker 1: or you self quarantine. You went home and that was
Speaker 1: a good measure before you and then you made those
Speaker 1: phone calls to say, okay, what is my risk UM?
Speaker 1: What we recommend It depends on the type of exposure
Speaker 1: you have. If you're a contact of a known case UM,
Speaker 1: then we recommend a quarantining of that individual so that
Speaker 1: there's no chance of them passing it on to another individual.
Speaker 1: They're monitored for fourteen days, which is the incubation period,
Speaker 1: which is the time from UM infection to the development
Speaker 1: of symptoms UM, so that for over those fourteen days,
Speaker 1: people are monitored and they're checked for symptoms to make
Speaker 1: sure if they have any fever or if they have
Speaker 1: any respiratory symptoms, and then tested. If we do that,
Speaker 1: if we actually find all of the cases, find all
Speaker 1: of the context, and we we can by doing that,
Speaker 1: we can actually stop transmission from from happening. We can
Speaker 1: stop human to human transmission from happening. So, not to
Speaker 1: make it all about me, but I did have contact
Speaker 1: with a known case, was it Maria because it was
Speaker 1: before the diagnosis was confirmed, or because I had very
Speaker 1: limited exposure that I would not have to be quarantined
Speaker 1: because everyone said that wasn't necessary. So it's it's both.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, like you explain, it's the nature
Speaker 1: of the exposure that you would have with someone, and
Speaker 1: if they had symptoms themselves, um, what type of contact
Speaker 1: you had with them, if you had physical contact with them. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, one of the things we most worry about
Speaker 1: our health care workers. You know, health care workers who
Speaker 1: are our frontline workers. They have a different type of
Speaker 1: contact with patients right there, touching them, They're very close
Speaker 1: to them, they're spending a longer period of time with them, etcetera.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, And so it's important that you
Speaker 1: assess the risk based on that level of exposure that
Speaker 1: you had. I know that a person can be infected,
Speaker 1: but asymptomatic can the can the virus spread when someone
Speaker 1: is asymptomatic before a diagnosis has taken place? And how
Speaker 1: difficult has that been that the incubation period is so long.
Speaker 1: So this is a very good question, and this is
Speaker 1: a very important one. UM. We are working with all
Speaker 1: of our member states to better understand three things. One,
Speaker 1: when cases are reported, UM, are any of them reported
Speaker 1: as being asymptomatic And what I mean by asymptomatic is
Speaker 1: having no symptoms at all UM. And what we're finding
Speaker 1: in some countries a small number of individuals are being
Speaker 1: reported as asymptomatic UM. Most of those people are contexts
Speaker 1: of known cases UM, and so the good the good
Speaker 1: news there is that they've they've already been identified. Many
Speaker 1: of them have either self isolated at home or are
Speaker 1: in quarantine, and so they're already UM restricting their their
Speaker 1: their contact with other people. Many of those asymptomatic people
Speaker 1: do go on to develop symptoms. So having one that's
Speaker 1: truly asymptomatic UM. Among the reported cases that we know
Speaker 1: about is rare. UM. What we know from virus shedding studies,
Speaker 1: and these are studies of looking at people where you
Speaker 1: test them regularly, you take a sample from their nasal
Speaker 1: swab or their throats. UM. We're looking at those individuals
Speaker 1: before they develop symptoms, if there's any virus there, and
Speaker 1: then after they develop symptoms. And what we know is
Speaker 1: from some people, UM, they can shed virus, which means
Speaker 1: they can they are shedding virus before they develop symptoms. UM.
Speaker 1: So there is a theoretical risk. There's a possibility that
Speaker 1: someone who is asymptomatic and transmit, but right now we
Speaker 1: don't believe that that's a major driver of transmission because
Speaker 1: we do not have many documented instances where someone who
Speaker 1: is asymptomatic transmitted to other people. Do you think that
Speaker 1: this will diminish as the weather gets warmer, Um, that's
Speaker 1: a good question. I get that question quite a lot. UM.
Speaker 1: The true answer is we don't know. UM. We have
Speaker 1: no reason to believe that this virus will act differently
Speaker 1: UM in different climates. You know, we're seeing cases being
Speaker 1: popping up in different types of climates. UM. We have
Speaker 1: a couple of cases in Africa. We've seen cases in Singapore.
Speaker 1: We've seen some cases in Brazil, UM, and so we
Speaker 1: want everyone to be ready and to be aggressive and
Speaker 1: to assume that it will behave the same way. The
Speaker 1: difference with with with not the virus, but there are
Speaker 1: differences in the way people behave When the weather is nicer,
Speaker 1: they spend more time outdoors as opposed to being indoors.
Speaker 1: So we will have to see how this virus behaves
Speaker 1: once the northern hemisphere winter ends. But remember the southern
Speaker 1: hemisphere winter will begin. So UM, we want to make
Speaker 1: sure everyone is acting as aggressively as possible to contain
Speaker 1: this virus and to stop transmission. And I know you
Speaker 1: have to go, you have such important work to do, Maria.
Speaker 1: But could this surpass the flu in terms of the
Speaker 1: mortality rate Because everyone keeps comparing the number of deaths
Speaker 1: due to of flu versus this UM is it just
Speaker 1: still early early stages. So mortality of of COVID nineteen
Speaker 1: is higher than flu UM. From all of the information
Speaker 1: that we have from across the country's um more people,
Speaker 1: the mortality rate is higher than flu UM. What is
Speaker 1: really important that from all the cases that we know
Speaker 1: UM to date, eighty percent of them have experienced what
Speaker 1: is more of a mild moderate disease which is not
Speaker 1: require hospitalization, but about individuals will develop severe disease or
Speaker 1: critical disease which will require some respiratory support UM and hospitalization,
Speaker 1: perhaps ventilation, UM, and then a small proportion will have
Speaker 1: died so far, UM. What we need people to understand
Speaker 1: is that this is a serious disease. UM, that it
Speaker 1: can cause severe disease and it can kill UM. And
Speaker 1: so we hear a lot I hear a lot of Oh,
Speaker 1: it's maybe just the flu, or it's just the add flu.
Speaker 1: It's not that we need everybody to understand that maybe
Speaker 1: even their own individual risk. Maybe you are young, maybe
Speaker 1: you are healthier, in your family is healthy, and that's wonderful.
Speaker 1: But if you prevent prevent yourself from getting infected, you
Speaker 1: also prevent yourself from transmitting into somebody else who may
Speaker 1: be part of a vulnerable population, somebody who may be older,
Speaker 1: somebody who may have an underlying condition. And so that's
Speaker 1: really important. Again, we all have a role to play here.
Speaker 1: If we can minimize our own risk of infection, then
Speaker 1: we can minimize that spread to vulnerable populations, and those
Speaker 1: individuals have a higher chance of death. How do you
Speaker 1: make people cautious but not so paralyzed with fear? And
Speaker 1: I know you want people to take it seriously, but
Speaker 1: you don't want mass panic and hysteria either. Absolutely not,
Speaker 1: we don't. We just want people to be ready. UM.
Speaker 1: We want people to be safe. We want people to
Speaker 1: be smart. We want people to inform themselves with the
Speaker 1: latest information. This situation is moving very rapidly. It's evolving quickly.
Speaker 1: Every day we're learning something new. Keep up with us,
Speaker 1: be patient with us, um as we learn information and
Speaker 1: we share that with you. And and be kind to
Speaker 1: one another, help each other out. Um. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of stigma, and there's a lot of negative
Speaker 1: things that are happening. But on the other side, we
Speaker 1: can see the best in people. You can help them out. UM.
Speaker 1: If you have neighbors that can't get out themselves, help
Speaker 1: them with the groceries, you know, offer offer some social support. Um.
Speaker 1: Just be kind to one another. Um. Those are the
Speaker 1: things we need people to do. Be ready, be safe,
Speaker 1: be smart, and be kind. Well those are words to
Speaker 1: live by. Corona or no corona, right, Dr Maria. Really,
Speaker 1: I've loved being able to talk to you. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. That was Dr Maria van Kirkov, infectious disease
Speaker 1: epidemiologist with the World Health Organization coming up. One Chinese
Speaker 1: American man tells us what it was like to be
Speaker 1: smack in the middle of the epidemic. You Len Yin
Speaker 1: lives in Minnesota with his wife Anne, and their two daughters.
Speaker 1: In January of this year, he was scheduled to travel
Speaker 1: to Wuhan province in China, where he was born, for
Speaker 1: New Year's celebrations with his family and friends. But as
Speaker 1: he was getting ready, rumors began to emerge that there
Speaker 1: was a mysterious illness in the region. You Lynn and
Speaker 1: his family tried to find out more and I looked online.
Speaker 1: That's really not a lot of information and my family
Speaker 1: in Wohan did not mentioned at all about that. But
Speaker 1: I was the nervous, so actually went to check with
Speaker 1: uh knem Nick. I usually go to you just asked
Speaker 1: them you've there any bacination for me? And then my
Speaker 1: wife actually check to your just acts that there's something
Speaker 1: called travel klinic, if there's anything that I should be
Speaker 1: worried or is there anything we can do to be safe,
Speaker 1: And at that time, there's really nothing so I said, okay,
Speaker 1: I just need to be careful. So you land, said
Speaker 1: goodbye to his family in Minneapolis, and boarded a plane
Speaker 1: for Wuhan. He landed on January. I remember I was
Speaker 1: at the luggage pickup. I've felt nervous definitely at that
Speaker 1: time because everybody around me were wearing masks at that time,
Speaker 1: and actually I it was the first time I saw
Speaker 1: in twenty and nine masks. I kind of feel, oh,
Speaker 1: that's a strange mask. I remember I saw it in myself.
Speaker 1: So you has the needle evolved involve seeing in the front,
Speaker 1: so actually like a breath, like a breathing thing. That's right,
Speaker 1: that's my first time I saw it. I said, well,
Speaker 1: that's really serious, serious equipment for people to wear. Maybe
Speaker 1: the pneumonia is more serious than I thought. By January,
Speaker 1: the Chinese government started to limit travel around Wuhan. No
Speaker 1: one was allowed to leave, and public transit was also
Speaker 1: shut down. For the first few days. I actually went
Speaker 1: out with my family to go to different restaurants and
Speaker 1: so that that that was the third day. I remember
Speaker 1: I because I say, having jet legs. I woke up
Speaker 1: at two o'clock in the morning and I got a
Speaker 1: message from a friend in the United States. Actually he
Speaker 1: he sent me attack saying, oh I heard wah is lockdown?
Speaker 1: Is that true? So I said what? I was thinking,
Speaker 1: what what? What do you mean lockdown? And then I
Speaker 1: looking have your search on the social media to verify
Speaker 1: the news, and then I found out there is a
Speaker 1: notice somewhere business said or the traffic coming out of
Speaker 1: Wahan locked down did not say anything coming in, so
Speaker 1: you can stay, are coming in, but you cannot leave. Actually,
Speaker 1: I remember it was not very clear at that time.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, wow, so that there's no trend going out,
Speaker 1: that there's no um, there's no flights. Can I still
Speaker 1: go by car? Actually? I was thinking, should I wake
Speaker 1: up my brother, you know, ask him to drive me
Speaker 1: to Shanahai somewhere so I can go home. Just nearly confused.
Speaker 1: At that time, it was not very clear, so it
Speaker 1: didn't seem like the government was communicating what was going
Speaker 1: on very well, and you were getting most of your
Speaker 1: information from social media. You didn't know if you could
Speaker 1: leave or if people could come in. You were kind
Speaker 1: of in limpo. It's I was like that that is correct.
Speaker 1: Just a lot of confusion. Were you worried at that point,
Speaker 1: how you were gonna get the heck out of Dodge
Speaker 1: and back to your family in Minnesota. Yeah, I was worried,
Speaker 1: but at that time I was hopeful. I was thinking,
Speaker 1: whi is the city of eleven million people. In my mind,
Speaker 1: there's no way that the lockdown can last more than
Speaker 1: say one or two weeks. So I was actually very hopeful.
Speaker 1: My trip was three weeks. I was okay, just to
Speaker 1: see how how you go. It may be the lockdown
Speaker 1: may be lifted in a couple of weeks. That that
Speaker 1: was my sinking at that time. Actually on January, when
Speaker 1: you looked out the window, what did it look like outside? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just quiet, very quiet, which is very unusual
Speaker 1: for the place where I stay and my mom my
Speaker 1: Mom's Countle. It's very is close to your street. That
Speaker 1: street actually is one of the most congestive street in
Speaker 1: when usually people tried to avoid it, so it's always
Speaker 1: always a lot of traffic. But yeah, that day, or
Speaker 1: even cover this before, it's just not many cars is empty.
Speaker 1: It's very strange. I was almost felt like it's a
Speaker 1: sci fi film, you know. The Actually I remember that
Speaker 1: there's a film title code on the day when the
Speaker 1: earth is still still I was thinking about that. By January,
Speaker 1: just five days after you land landed in Wuhan, the
Speaker 1: US government mandated evacuations of US personnel and citizens from
Speaker 1: the region. At that time, I was surprised. Actually when
Speaker 1: the first evacuation happened, Actually that's the time I started
Speaker 1: to get really really over it. I said, I was thinking,
Speaker 1: what what I did not know? Because the beginning as
Speaker 1: a gonna just wait out for the lockdown to lift,
Speaker 1: to be lifted. When when United States evacuated or the
Speaker 1: or the councilor employees and the staff and the family member,
Speaker 1: I got really verried. One heard the news um it
Speaker 1: was it was said there's the only very limited seas
Speaker 1: available for private citizens. So I tried to contact them,
Speaker 1: but at that time was already full the flight so
Speaker 1: had to wait, and there was not really worth about
Speaker 1: a new evacuation plan at all. So I asked my
Speaker 1: wife to start contacting people here in the United States.
Speaker 1: So my wife contacted UM, the state the congressional representatives
Speaker 1: from Minnesota, and they were very helpful. They talked to
Speaker 1: your state department and they found out and there are
Speaker 1: there were a new evacuation flights planned, but there's not
Speaker 1: nothing in the news. But that's how I heard about it.
Speaker 1: Then I got ragious on the State Department website and
Speaker 1: there's there's there's some confusion confusion there to you. So
Speaker 1: I registered in their website. I send an email to
Speaker 1: one email address, and then the representatives they helped to
Speaker 1: talk communicated with the State Department too. So that's how
Speaker 1: I got on the list to be evacuated. See sometimes
Speaker 1: the government works, right, I mean, thank goodness. And did
Speaker 1: you feel guilty leaving your family in China? I understand
Speaker 1: your parents lived, their cousins lived there. Did you feel bad, uh,
Speaker 1: saying goodbye to them? That you have felt really bad?
Speaker 1: When how did you leave? Um? Yeah, I it was
Speaker 1: pretty tough, especially my parents are older and um but
Speaker 1: there's a really not much I could do there to
Speaker 1: even help them do worry about my job in the
Speaker 1: United States to myself because it might have a family
Speaker 1: here to rely on me. So but it was very
Speaker 1: difficulty decision. Actually, I'm sure you were torn. Are your
Speaker 1: parents doing okay? They are doing fine in terms of coronavirus,
Speaker 1: they're okay. But my dad is older, so she actually
Speaker 1: she he felt twice already since I left, and he
Speaker 1: just couldn't get the care he needed for now. So
Speaker 1: I'm very nervous about that. Still. Oh he couldn't get
Speaker 1: Is that because all the doctors and the medical personnel
Speaker 1: were focused STU people who were getting the coronavirus so
Speaker 1: other things. Uh, we're not being prioritized that that is correct,
Speaker 1: and also frankly, we don't want to go to hospital
Speaker 1: at this time too. Right. I'm sure that was a concern,
Speaker 1: particularly for older people. And if he has any underlying
Speaker 1: health issues, well, good luck with him. I hope he's
Speaker 1: doing Okay. Let me ask about you. Uh, on the
Speaker 1: final leg of your journey, you're flying home on this massive,
Speaker 1: unmarked cargo plane. Were people on the plane sick? Were
Speaker 1: you nervous about being in such close proximity to people
Speaker 1: who were heading out of the country that they might
Speaker 1: be contagious? Yes, we're very nervous, and that that's the time. Actually,
Speaker 1: I will mask the whole time, and the people are
Speaker 1: really not talking to each other. There's not much socializing
Speaker 1: at all. Pretty much everybody have to themselves. On February five,
Speaker 1: you land landed in San Diego with the rest of
Speaker 1: the evacuees contention upon getting the flight out of China
Speaker 1: was a fourteen day quarantine on a US military base
Speaker 1: where you land tried to settle into a new strange reality.
Speaker 1: This was the the largest un quarantined since fifties. So
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody was actually prepared. So um, even
Speaker 1: I remember at the beginning the food was not enough, right,
Speaker 1: like really, yeah, we didn't have enough food to eat.
Speaker 1: That was the biggest complaint. And how we do laundry,
Speaker 1: that was a big question. We felt like a kind
Speaker 1: of like a refugees in a way because nobody really
Speaker 1: packed a lot of stuff. So first of all, god,
Speaker 1: there's oh, how do we do laundry? So they were
Speaker 1: not prepared for that. It's so little things like that
Speaker 1: and Ilso the protocol who should be who should be tested?
Speaker 1: How you know how much restriction everybody should be getting
Speaker 1: wasn't wasn't. What was clear was everyone tested. No, only
Speaker 1: people with a fever got tested. I believe the whole
Speaker 1: time we have uh nine people got tested I think,
Speaker 1: and you never exhibited any symptoms. You never got sick.
Speaker 1: I had need to be a cough. Um, So I
Speaker 1: actually went to the medical tent two. I told him
Speaker 1: I have need to be a cough. They checked me
Speaker 1: and then they say they told me nothing to wor Bob.
Speaker 1: But they did come back to me asked me to
Speaker 1: stay home when we had one confirmed the case. So
Speaker 1: they asked me to stay inside the room. Oh, one
Speaker 1: confirmed case at the military base before that. So how
Speaker 1: were you able to interact with the other people there?
Speaker 1: Did they bring food to your room? Can you just
Speaker 1: give us a little feel for your day to day
Speaker 1: activities while you were at the base. We can move
Speaker 1: quite freely on the CDC. They suggested not to wear masks.
Speaker 1: They were saying, anybody who wants to wear a mask,
Speaker 1: they can, but they do not recommend that. And we
Speaker 1: we we were told just keep a social distance, which
Speaker 1: is six ft away from each other. So the food
Speaker 1: were delivered in a like in a hole in a
Speaker 1: big lounge area. We we would pick up the food
Speaker 1: and at beginning I would pick up the food and
Speaker 1: go back to my room to eat it. And later
Speaker 1: I found out a few people that are you're hanging
Speaker 1: out around the area, so I would actually eat with them.
Speaker 1: Just again keep social descent. That's when we can chat
Speaker 1: Nibia with each other. We talk um. So every day
Speaker 1: we have a daily meeting at the two o'clock just
Speaker 1: to keep us updated and everything, the current virus itself
Speaker 1: and also if anybody got sick in in our in
Speaker 1: the current in site, and we do two times morning
Speaker 1: and evening. We have to check our temperature. So that's
Speaker 1: that's mandatory. And I was said that we really you know,
Speaker 1: we can do pretty much anything we want, and we can.
Speaker 1: We can go outside of the room and start jogging
Speaker 1: in the yard. Um, you know, there's a great science.
Speaker 1: So I have a lot more movement than when I
Speaker 1: was in China. What was it like getting home to
Speaker 1: your wife and two kids. You must have been so happy.
Speaker 1: I was really Yes, I was really happy, and it
Speaker 1: was very grateful. There are so many scenes I took
Speaker 1: for granted in life that very a lot of small
Speaker 1: things like driving my daughter to your school, even shoveling snow,
Speaker 1: all those things just you know, it seems so far
Speaker 1: away when I was quarantined. So actually what I feel like,
Speaker 1: I finally can do normal things again. That was so great,
Speaker 1: And I was really grateful for my wife. She worked
Speaker 1: really hard to get me on the flight, and she
Speaker 1: worked very hard to just to you know, make sure
Speaker 1: my daughter feels nothing strange, you know, for the last
Speaker 1: the whole months. So really grateful for that. And just
Speaker 1: you know another thing too, I can find it huck
Speaker 1: someone that's not a strange. There's no human touch during
Speaker 1: the whole ordeal. So when I come home and actually
Speaker 1: can't hug my wife, kiss my daughter, that was fel great.
Speaker 1: Are you back at work? Has life returned to normal now? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm back to work. I wouldn't say back to normal
Speaker 1: because I really did not expect. And it became so
Speaker 1: serious here now because I when I one him once,
Speaker 1: I really said, when I was in quarantine, after quarantine,
Speaker 1: everything what be normal? There's no you know, nobody even
Speaker 1: talk about coronavirus anymore. I you really did not expect.
Speaker 1: Many weeks after that we are talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: lockdown in Italy or those very serious scene Right now,
Speaker 1: there does seem to be um a lot of panic,
Speaker 1: I think all across the country. And um, how is
Speaker 1: it different from what you can tell the reaction here
Speaker 1: in this country versus the reaction in China. I think
Speaker 1: once in common is there's a mistrust in government. I
Speaker 1: think that's truly, that's the same Chinese uh and American here.
Speaker 1: I don't be id think they believe um the even
Speaker 1: the official news they see. I think that's very the same.
Speaker 1: The difference is um Chinese people, I really believe they
Speaker 1: they will follow whatever the government tells them to do.
Speaker 1: The even the magic is very drastic, like say do
Speaker 1: not go outside, you have to wear a mask all
Speaker 1: the time. Even they don't believe that, but they followed
Speaker 1: that and they are hopeful that what turned out the
Speaker 1: resulting out to be good. In the United States, I
Speaker 1: believe from what I see on the Twitter or talking difference,
Speaker 1: people already have a picture that how coronavirus should be
Speaker 1: dealt with, how how what was the responsible should be like.
Speaker 1: So if the garment or the media's does not respond
Speaker 1: the way they wanted, they're just not ready to accept that.
Speaker 1: Other than realizing you shouldn't take for granted certain things
Speaker 1: like a shower, hugging your wife, or taking your daughter
Speaker 1: to school. What have you learned from this whole experience?
Speaker 1: What I learned is that the information, trusting information is
Speaker 1: so important. There are so much misinformation flying flying around
Speaker 1: on Twitter and even in the news. You have to
Speaker 1: we have to be very, very careful to check the source.
Speaker 1: And I thing I learned is listened to the experts.
Speaker 1: I'm not experting embarrassed, so I try to find experts
Speaker 1: I can trust, so I try to listen to them. Ellen,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for talking with us about your experience.
Speaker 1: We really really appreciate it. And stay safe, stay healthy,
Speaker 1: and and many many thanks. Thank you for me. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. When we come back trying to find
Speaker 1: answers to some of your burning questions about the COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen outbreak. I understand a lot of you out there
Speaker 1: are worried about COVID Night Team, and I understand why.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of information to take in. We want
Speaker 1: to answer some of the questions you sent to me
Speaker 1: via social media. So the good news is the doctor
Speaker 1: is in. Dr Shaffner. Hey, it's Katie Kuric. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Dr Schaffner. Dr Bill Shaffner is the medical director of
Speaker 1: the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases and a professor at Vanderbilt. Okay,
Speaker 1: let me go ahead and go through these questions, Dr Shaffner,
Speaker 1: because you've been so nice. K Jersey Kids asked, when
Speaker 1: do you predict or when do the authorities predict the
Speaker 1: virus will peak in the US. Wait a minute, you
Speaker 1: didn't tell me I had to have my crystal ball here. Uh.
Speaker 1: We hope, we hope that since it's a respiratory virus,
Speaker 1: and respiratory viruses like influenza, as we all know, they
Speaker 1: abate come March and April into a maybe this coronavirus
Speaker 1: will have read the textbook and does the same thing.
Speaker 1: But we don't think that will mean even if it
Speaker 1: does that, that it will go away completely. One of
Speaker 1: the things that could do is go south of the
Speaker 1: equator because as we start having summer, they start having winter,
Speaker 1: and so could it be that in Australia, New Zealand,
Speaker 1: Southern Africa, and in South America they're due for this
Speaker 1: coronavirus and then could its cycle back our next winter.
Speaker 1: Maybe all the more reason to keep research going on
Speaker 1: that vaccine, because if it does persist or come back,
Speaker 1: we'll need that vaccine down the road. We're hearing, by
Speaker 1: the way, speaking of that, that the vaccine is going
Speaker 1: to take a year, year two, a year and a
Speaker 1: half to be developed. Is that what you're hearing as well? Yep, yep, yep,
Speaker 1: And let's all take a deep breath about that. You
Speaker 1: you want people to hurry up, but not rush. Nobody
Speaker 1: wants to start delivering an unsafe or an ineffective vaccine
Speaker 1: to our population. We want to be sure we're doing
Speaker 1: it right. Let's give them a little time. Science can't
Speaker 1: be rushed. Jen Scoville asked, should we be pausing personal travel? Well, Jen,
Speaker 1: I would ask, if I may ask a personal question,
Speaker 1: are you older than sixty? Do you have one of
Speaker 1: those underlying illnesses? Because if you do, I would ask
Speaker 1: you to think twice about how essential that trip is
Speaker 1: right now, and if it's not all that essential, postpone it.
Speaker 1: And as Dr Tony Facci has said from the n
Speaker 1: I h don't even think about going on a cruise.
Speaker 1: I know, really, squid six, these are funny handles. Am
Speaker 1: I crazy to want to continue going to work out classes?
Speaker 1: I don't think you are. I think at any age
Speaker 1: you can go to a workout class that's not really
Speaker 1: a close, intense environment where you get face to face
Speaker 1: with people, take some wipes along perhaps your gym probably
Speaker 1: has them, and wipe off the seats and your bar
Speaker 1: bells and things like that before you use them. And
Speaker 1: after you use them, because that will make them more
Speaker 1: friendly to others. Uh, gentle, good exercise, good for the body.
Speaker 1: Alison wants to know how could a person tell the
Speaker 1: difference between corona symptoms and cold symptoms. That's pretty easy.
Speaker 1: I thought you was going to ask me the harder question,
Speaker 1: how you how can you distinguish it from flu? We'll
Speaker 1: do that as a follow up. Yea so cold, think
Speaker 1: of from the neck up, sore throat, stuffy knows, feeling
Speaker 1: kind of punk. Maybe your eyes get a little bit red,
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of fever. Not so bad. Coronavirus
Speaker 1: and flu, who are they're indistinguishable, will get down into
Speaker 1: your chest pretty quickly, cause irritation of your bronchial tubes
Speaker 1: and a cough, a kind of a dry cough. And
Speaker 1: then both of those viruses can make you more sick
Speaker 1: by having you feel really punk, losing your appetite. Some
Speaker 1: people get abdominal pain and diarrhea. And then, of course,
Speaker 1: as we move along the more serious part of the
Speaker 1: spectrum of illness, if that virus gets out into your lungs,
Speaker 1: the coronavirus, it can cause pneumonia, and if that's bad enough,
Speaker 1: you'll have difficulty breathing. By that time, you will have
Speaker 1: called your healthcare provider or shown up in the emergency room.
Speaker 1: When someone has a mild case and doesn't need hospitalization.
Speaker 1: What kind of medicines are most effective for dealing with this?
Speaker 1: Is it sort of common sense? Like syrup and plenty
Speaker 1: of fluids, chicken soup, that kind of thing, Adville thailand All.
Speaker 1: I mean, what are you recommending when people actually do
Speaker 1: test positively for this? That's perfect, You've just written the prescription.
Speaker 1: I could be a doctor, why not? So stay away
Speaker 1: from folks, and if your home, keep up your fluids.
Speaker 1: Chicken soup is wonderful. Uh. Coffee and alcoholic beverages don't
Speaker 1: count because they tend to be diuretics. They tend to
Speaker 1: draw you out, actually right, they they're very dehydrating. Yes,
Speaker 1: so they don't count. Uh. Plain water works just fine
Speaker 1: and sure for relief of symptoms. Uh, an aspirin or
Speaker 1: anything like that, A thailand All will certainly help. Should
Speaker 1: pregnant women worry, that's one question we got at the moment.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen any data to suggest that coronavirus infection
Speaker 1: in a woman can affect her baby, but it has
Speaker 1: not been well studied, and I'm sure there are physicians
Speaker 1: in China who have had experience with this who are
Speaker 1: going to tell us of their experience. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to put that one off on the side. But in
Speaker 1: terms of worry, I think you're like a normal person,
Speaker 1: except you're a bit immuno suppressed. Uh. That's a natural
Speaker 1: condition in pregnancy, and so take special care to avoid
Speaker 1: people who are coughing and sneezing. Wash those hands. And
Speaker 1: it's not a good time to travel when if you
Speaker 1: do believe you have coronavirus, either you've been diagnosed or
Speaker 1: you just feel like you have a Hopefully you you'll
Speaker 1: call your doctor if you feel like you you have it.
Speaker 1: Um At what point is it safe to go out
Speaker 1: in the world again. It's safe to go out in
Speaker 1: the world again when you're feeling better and your fever
Speaker 1: is all gone. And that's the general recommendation we make
Speaker 1: for influenza, and it would apply to the coronavirus also. Well,
Speaker 1: I know you have other patients you need to talk to.
Speaker 1: Dr Bill Shaffner. Thank you so much for spending some
Speaker 1: time answering these questions. What a pleasure, Katie. Good to
Speaker 1: be with you and call any time with more of
Speaker 1: those very interesting questions, and I'll take another one of
Speaker 1: your pop quizes. Okay, Dr Shaffner, thank you so much. Sure, bye,
Speaker 1: bye bye. That was Dr Bill Shaffner of the National
Speaker 1: Foundation for Infectious Diseases. And before we go, I want
Speaker 1: to return to Dr Maria van Kirkov for some tips
Speaker 1: and words of advice. Pay attention to what CDC is
Speaker 1: saying and what government websites are saying. You can always
Speaker 1: come to W H O, DOT, I N T and
Speaker 1: see you know the information that we have. But the basics,
Speaker 1: these fundamentals of hand washing, of respiratory etiquette. What we
Speaker 1: mean by that is making sure you sneeze into your
Speaker 1: elbow or sneeze into a tissue, UM, and put it
Speaker 1: in a closed bin, and then wash your hands. Practice
Speaker 1: social distancing, keep three feet away from people, especially people
Speaker 1: who are are are sick. Um. These things are very
Speaker 1: simple to do and everyone can do them, from your
Speaker 1: grandmother to your children, UM. And these are things that
Speaker 1: we want everybody to know and practice inner daily life.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Next Question. We really
Speaker 1: hope it's given you some important information and put you
Speaker 1: at ease at least a little bit as the story
Speaker 1: of the outbreak continue to evolve. You can find the
Speaker 1: most updated information and recommendations at CDC dot gov and
Speaker 1: the World Health Organization at w h OH dot I
Speaker 1: n T will also be updating my newsletter Wake Up
Speaker 1: Call with the latest articles and information, and by the way,
Speaker 1: you can subscribe to that at Katie Currek dot com.
Speaker 1: Stay healthy out there, Everyone, wash your hands for twenty
Speaker 1: seconds or just sing Happy Birthday twice. Until next time
Speaker 1: and my Next Question, I'm Katie Couric. Thanks so much
Speaker 1: for listening. Next Question with Katie Couric is a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Katie Currik Media. The executive
Speaker 1: producers are Katie Currik, Courtney Litz, and Tyler Klang. The
Speaker 1: supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Our show producer is Bethan Macaluso.
Speaker 1: The associate producers are Emily Pinto and Derek Clements. Editing
Speaker 1: by Derrek Clements, Dylan Fagan and Lowell Berlante, Mixing by
Speaker 1: Dylan Fagan. Our researcher is Gabriel Loser. For more information
Speaker 1: on today's episode, go to Katie Currek dot com and
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