WEBVTT - Project Minerva 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.200 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:14.800 Forward Thinking, and Welcome to Forward Thinking, the podcast that 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:18.200 looks at the future and says schools out forever. I'm 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:23.239 John in Strickland and I'm Joe McCormick. So we were 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.400 talking about what we were going to record this week, 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.200 or you know, we like to brainstorm different ideas about 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:31.600 stuff about the future that'd be kind of cooled. And 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.080 then I noticed that, you know, we needed one. I 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.559 talked about maybe another future of education episode, and I 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.760 had just read an article in The Atlantic which we 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:45.240 will be referring to numerous times in this podcast called 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:51.519 the Future of College question Mark, and it was the 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:59.520 author Graham would It was Wood's experience trying out something 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.840 called the Minerva Project. And so we wanted to talk 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:08.479 about what the Minerva Project is, how it contrasts with 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:14.000 the standard university experience as well as other alternatives to 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.240 universities as far as higher learning goes. So in order 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:24.080 to do that, first thing, one of the premisees that 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:27.080 the Minerva Project is based upon is that there's something 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.600 wrong with the university system, right. That's like, that's like, 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:31.920 that's one of the that's one of the first reasons 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:34.199 for its supposed to you know, one of the first 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.160 supposed reasons for its existence. How could you say that 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.640 you anti intellectual? Uh? Well, I mean, I'm just reporting 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.600 what has been said. But but if I had to 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:48.800 wager a guess, I would say that, And actually I 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:50.320 don't have to because this is all laid out in 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:55.160 the article. It's largely about the problem of cost. When 0:01:55.160 --> 0:02:00.840 it comes to pursuing a degree from from a college university, 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:05.080 they can be pretty expensive. And yes, cost has always 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:09.120 been one barrier to access to higher education, but it's 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:15.160 gotten particularly bad in recent years, hasn't it. Yeah, so, Joe, 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:19.280 you found this article in Bloomberg about the increase in 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:23.519 costs in uh in college tuition, and according to that article, 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.560 the tuition costs have increased by five hundred thirty eight 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.440 percent since n The article itself was written in two 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.320 thousand and thirteen, so those numbers are probably even a 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.440 little different today. I guess that's for US higher education. Yes, yeah, 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:38.600 specifically the United States. In fact, a lot of what 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.160 we're going to talk about today is going to focus 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.960 on the United States. That's where we live, so that 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.280 tends to be our frame of reference, and it's where 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.520 the Manerva project is based as well. Yes, currently there 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.760 will be other locations for the Minerva Project, assuming everything 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.320 goes well and that it doesn't collapse in on itself. 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.200 So let's say you're a person who looks this whole situation, 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:05.079 all the great things about college and university and the 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.160 mess that it's in right now. Also, so you see 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.480 it as a trade off. You see, well, obviously college 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.639 and university in America is one of the most culturally 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.520 and economically and intellectually important things I can do with 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.160 my life. But at the same time, you see that 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.639 is so much money, and I might not be getting 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:28.239 the value that I want out of this investment, and 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.919 lots of other concerns to me, Maybe I can't necessarily 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.960 get into the college I want to go to the most. Well, 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.480 on top of that, there's just the cultural pressure of 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.080 attending college in the first place. And there may be 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:44.000 people who don't necessarily want to go to college, but 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:48.400 there is an intense social pressure to go into college, 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.200 even if that's not what you would prefer. So it 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.920 may be that there might be a different pathway after 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.960 high school that would suit you better. Maybe you want 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.920 to go into a trade rather than going to a college, 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.160 but because of social pressures, you feel the need to 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:08.360 actually go into this other uh area. And that one 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:11.600 increases demand because now you've got people who don't even 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:16.440 necessarily really want to be there pursuing those those limited slots, 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:20.279 and to it means that this person's life gets put 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:24.360 on hold for however long they're in college, and and 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:27.520 in the meantime they may be you know, accruing debt. Sure, 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:31.120 And it's an industry pressure as well, because, especially as 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:36.279 more job application happens online and more algorithms are sorting 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:40.400 through people's resumes, not having a college degree to check 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.440 off can get you automatically filtered out of a lot 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.840 of potential jobs. Yeah, even if you might be best 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:49.200 suited for that job, and someone who has a degree, 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.560 maybe they might be fine at it, but maybe they 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.240 didn't wouldn't have done the job as well as you 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.520 would have had. Then that doesn't matter if that algorithm 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.120 just you know, just because yeah, yeah, you're you go 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:01.120 into the trash pile because you didn't have this one 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:05.320 box checked. Okay, Well, now that we've discussed the problem, 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:07.560 I think we should look at this idea of the 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.960 Minerva Project and see how that compares to what the 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.560 other options are today. I mean, so we obviously have 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.159 traditional college or traditional university, and then we also have 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:22.840 other sort of strange alternative options like massive open online courses, 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.880 which we've talked about on this podcast before. And then 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.919 there's this new thing, the Minerva Project. How does it 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:33.400 stack up? What is it and does it really compare? Uh, 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:37.680 it's an odd duck. It's it's a startup company and 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.920 what it's meant to do is to take the place 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.280 of an IVY League education. Now IVY League for those 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.839 who are not in the United States, IVY League refers 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.159 to a group of eight different colleges in the northeastern 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:57.839 United States that are known for being incredibly selective, prestigious. 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.239 They're they're considered to be uh, you know, a degree 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.640 from one of these institutions is considered to be a 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.640 very high achievement. Uh. When I say very selective, I'm 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:12.040 talking about sometimes they're they're uh accepting that the only 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.800 accept six percent, like some of the one of the 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.599 colleges in particular, six percent is how many out of 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.960 all the people who apply they get they get Uh, accepted. 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.880 Can you guess which one it is? Hey, you got 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.720 it in one. Harvard has a six percent rate of 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:32.200 accepting new students, meaning percent of people who apply do 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:36.800 not get in. So there's there's obviously a demand for 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.799 this level of education. There's also a lack of supply 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.480 for that education, which means that this education gets really expensive. 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.960 So a fellow by the name of Ben Nelson came 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.279 up with this idea for the Minerva Project and thought, 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.159 what if we were to create a new institution that 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:57.279 could give an Ivy League level education to students for 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.000 far less money than what it would cost to attend 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.440 one of these colleges. Uh. Not all of the issues 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:07.120 are solved. For example, the issue about a limited number 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.080 of slots is very much not solved by the Minerva 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:15.200 Project because they limit their entire class to thirty people, 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:19.320 Which I mean, that's it thirty that's that's thirty slots 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:23.920 for the entire project, Like graduating class. Yeah, you're graduating 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:27.320 class is thirty people. So if we're talking about the 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.320 pros and cons of the idea of the Minerva Project, 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.080 is the future of education? Really we're talking about it's 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:37.360 sort of model, not its specific right, because because it 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:42.080 is technically a single private college that is very very small, Yes, 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:46.040 extremely exclusive as it turns out, UM. And also yeah, 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.840 it's not scalable by its very nature. What the Minerva 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:55.720 Project is cannot scale larger. Based upon the approach they're 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.960 wanting to take with a teacher to student relationships, well, 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.120 they are hoping to gale it up to hire enough 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.520 teachers to be able to provide for more students. But 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.360 when you've got a when you've got a class limits 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.520 size of nineteen, you cannot have more than nineteen people 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:13.280 enrolled in a single class. You rapidly reach a point where, 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.400 unless you have grown to gargantuan levels, you're not going 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.560 to have enough faculty to support the number of students 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.480 that would be needed to fill out you know, you know, 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.280 a class of a hundred thousand or something that you 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.600 might see in an enormous university. UM. But at any rate, 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.800 Minerva Project, the model is what we really need to 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.640 focus on. Okay, but let's hear the story. What's the 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:39.240 story of the Minerva Project. So Nelson, he comes up 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.040 with this idea. He, by the way, had come from 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:47.520 an interesting background. He had been the president of a uh, 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.840 a company called Snapfish. Have you heard of it? Online 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.200 photo sharing? Yeah? So he was president of that, uh. 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.280 And then that company got bought by another little company 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:02.800 called HP good Packard. Yeah so uh. He fresh with cash, 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.000 had thought about this for a while, about the idea 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:12.640 of creating a private, for profit company that essentially sells 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.680 an ivy League level education, meaning that you would actually, 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:17.400 you know, you would as a student have to do 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:20.360 the work. It's not like they're selling a degree. It's 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.280 not a it's not some sort of diploma factory. It's 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.000 not like that, but that it would take the place 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.600 of what he thought of as an antiquated system. And 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:31.160 we have more to say about that a little bit 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:37.079 later too. So uh. At any rate, the he had 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.640 a round of venture funding held back in two thousand twelve, 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.840 raised about twenty five million dollars to really develop this 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:50.120 idea and partnered with the Keck Graduate Institute kg I 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:54.400 to actually develop the curriculum and structure this institution, which 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.040 is very small right now, I mean with thirty incoming 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.280 class members. Keep in mind this is for two fourteen, 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:04.800 So for the year of two thousand fourteen, there will 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.040 only be thirty people kind of running through it. Think 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.240 of it like a pilot program. Uh, they're given a 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:16.000 free ride for this particular project, a four year, four 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.959 year free scholarship for the thirty people that would in 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.199 exchange for kind of being a psych experiment. Yeah yeah, 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.839 I mean, you know, the considering that I think only 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.000 two of their actual degrees are accredited right now. Uh, 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:32.920 it might be a bit of a gamble. I mean, 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.520 unless you're majoring in one of those two, in which 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.160 case you're like suck as um because you're like, I've 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.480 already got my degree accredited, I just have to earn 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.479 it now. Uh. But at any rate, it's it's definitely 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.600 going to be an interesting experiment. Now, normally it would 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:53.079 cost ten thousand dollars a year to attend this particular school, 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.840 which is much much lower than one of the Ivy 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.240 League college certainly at that that that rivals. And I 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.720 went to college ten years ago, my my public school education. 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.600 So yeah, see when I went to college, it cost 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.520 you a song and a sandwich. That's how long ago 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:14.439 it was. Now it was significantly expensive at any rate. Uh, 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:16.840 Like if you wanted to go seriously, how much did 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:22.479 you pay in shekels? Actually it was these giant stone 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:27.080 coins that took forty men to roll down, and that's 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:30.199 why Athens streets are in such bad repair these days. 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:35.839 People paying for their No, no, that was the year 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.720 before me. At any rate, UM, so ten thousand dollars 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.240 a year is significantly less expensive than say, if you 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.000 were going to Harvard. Harvard, by the way, UH in 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.520 two thousand fourteen, a year at Harvard costs just tuition 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:52.280 alone cost forty three thousand dollars ninety three thousand nine 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.600 or thirty eight dollars. Then you have to tack on 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.840 another fourteen thousand, six d sixty nine dollars for room 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.160 and board, which ends up for one year being fifty 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.720 eight thousand, six hundred seven dollars. That's one year at Harvard. 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.520 So a ten thousand dollar versus fifty eight thousand dollars, 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:12.040 you can easily see the difference. But um then you know, 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.480 getting back to the story of the Minerva project. UH. 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.720 Once he had made this decision and the and partnered 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.320 with k g I and they got this this funding, 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:25.080 they started looking around to find the people who would 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.160 be in charge of developing the actual courses that students 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.959 would take and right now. It's it's pretty much an 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:35.520 elite group of of uh, you know, talk about celebrity faculty. 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:37.880 You've got some celebrities on this one. So the dean 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.080 of the faculty is Stephen Kostlin, who is the the 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.840 former dean or a a former dean at Harvard University. 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:49.720 Um specialty is in cognitive psychology and neuroscience. Then you 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.040 have other people like Diane F. Halpern, who's Dean of 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.920 Social Studies and as a former president of the American 0:12:55.960 --> 0:13:01.920 Psychological Association a p A YEP, Eric Bonnabo, who is 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:06.640 Dean of Computational Sciences and founder of Ico System Corporation, 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:12.120 which does really complicated problem solving stuff using math to 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.520 a point that's uncomfortable for me. And then you have 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.480 James D. Sterling, who's Dean of Natural Sciences and a 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:22.360 founding member of the Keck Graduate Institute. Then you've got 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:26.200 Daniel Levitton, who is Dean of Arts and Humanities and 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.920 the director of the Laboratory for Music, Perception, Cognition and 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.559 Expertise at McGill University. And they do, like you said, Lauren, 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.319 they plan on hiring more faculty in the next couple 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.240 of years. To bless out that group. But this is 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.560 already a pretty you know, rock star kind of ensemble 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.920 that they've got together. I'm imagine that's where a lot 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.040 of that twenty million dollars is going to right now. Um, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.520 although probably not a huge amount of that because there 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:55.760 are other costs that you have to associate with this. 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.040 Unlike a massive open online course, there is actually a 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:04.920 physical location associated with this particular college, right right, there's 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.080 a couple of physical locations I believe, or they're working 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.680 towards that. There is a dorm which the students live in, 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.440 which is however, right, However, there's not a campus. No, 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.920 there's no library, there's no gem, there's no dining hall. Well, 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.960 I'm sure that's one way to save money. Yeah, yeah, 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.200 that that would be a reason, one of the reasons 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.800 why you would have a much lower buy in to 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.400 get into the Minerva project. Yeah. So I'm interested by 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.320 this because on one hand, it's not like they're going 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.880 for a super cheap option. I mean, there are colleges 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.400 you can go to I'm sure that are cheaper than this, certainly, 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:44.040 but they're trying to get a higher ratio of extremely 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:50.280 high instructor profile and quality to uh to a tuition 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.560 that is very low for what you're getting. Yeah, it's 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:57.960 kind of it's a perception of increased value, you know, 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.800 the idea that you are spending far less than you 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.720 would at a place like Harvard, but getting an education that, 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.040 at least they argue, is comparable to what you would 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.200 get if you were to go to someplace like Harvard. Now, 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:12.920 whether or not the rest of the world views it 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.080 that way is another question, right, I mean this we 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.000 haven't even gotten into what their their plan is for 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:23.160 their their teaching style, but it's there's a huge question 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.440 mark here, which is that even after this experiment has 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.520 run its course of the first the first class goes 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.760 all the way through and graduates, will those degrees actually 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:37.640 be valued by outside sources? You know, if you're if 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.960 you're a hiring manager at a company and you have 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.520 someone who has on their resume a degree from Harvard 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.280 and as someone who and someone who has a degree 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.960 from the Nerva Project, are you really going to consider 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.880 those two things to be weighed equally? And that's a 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.360 question that we can't answer yet because it hasn't happened. 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.720 Of course, the more intangible aspect is what sort of 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:00.160 personal value does it provide to the student? How does 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.960 it figure into your own feelings of intellectual development? But 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.560 that's a that's a harder thing to quantify, and I 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.360 guess the public sphere absolutely to go back to the 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:13.680 actual value of that degree. Like we mentioned earlier, accreditation 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.120 is a key point in that and tech stuff. Did 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:21.040 I believe an episode on the accreditation process we talked 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.520 a little bit about it because we've we've covered online 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.600 education before and accreditation is one of those things that 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.720 is it's it's an interesting concept. In the United States, 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.840 the way it's done is that we have private uh 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:37.880 accreditation organizations, all right, they are not part of the government. 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:41.120 They're privately operated. They are regional though they can't Yes, 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.480 they are regional, depending upon which one it is that 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.120 may have a regional scope or even a national scope. 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.080 The United States government does maintain a list of these 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:54.200 different organizations that it considers to be yeah, or at 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.200 least accredited. Yeah. The accreditation services that are considered to 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:03.280 be quality right there, they're considered to be capable of 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:08.679 of scrutinizing an institution's offering and saying whether or not 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.320 it actually has value. That's fascinating. It sounds kind of 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.160 like credit reporting agencies. It kind of is. I mean, 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.040 it's quality assurance, is what it comes down to. It's 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:22.160 like a private uh entity that's providing this major public service, 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.359 right right, and well, I don't know if you call 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.920 it service, but it's turns out to be that thing 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.879 because you know, this is where some of those small 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.080 online private colleges have wound up scamming students because they'll 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.960 enroll a student for you know, a relatively small amount 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.560 of tuition, but by the time the kid gets the degree, 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:45.679 they realize that no one accepts that degree. Yeah, and 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.400 that's that's one of the reasons why the Minerva Project 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.640 is actually I mean, they are going through this process 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.359 because while the people at the Minerva Project have a 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:57.400 lot of critical things to say with the way universities 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.119 are run in general and the way that class is 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:04.840 our run in particular, they do at least acknowledge that 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.639 there is value to this accreditation, or at least that 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:09.520 the rest of the world places value in it. So 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:11.520 you have to play the game, right. If you don't 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.320 play the game, then it doesn't really matter how well 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.120 you you do the Uh, the course work. It doesn't 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:19.959 matter how well you design it or how well you 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.200 implement it, because if no one else values it, then 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:28.080 you your customers. Your students are right where they were 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.880 before they enrolled, and that actually there. Depending upon whether 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:33.600 or not they had to pay, they may be poorer 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:37.399 for it out. Yeah, now, the like I said that 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.600 first group, since they get a free ride, we'll be 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.600 able to really Uh, you know, the biggest risk they 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.160 have is that they're they're wasting their time. They're dedicating 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.160 time to it, and you know, there's no I don't 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:54.359 think there's any argument that the students are you know, 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:56.680 about whether or not the students are gonna learn while 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.800 they're there. I think that they certainly will learn while 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:02.240 they are there, especially considering that they've got some of 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:06.360 the leading thinkers in various fields as their teachers. Uh, 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.840 they will, I think very much benefit from that experience. 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.080 So the question is whether or not they can leverage 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.080 the degree, which is kind of crazy when you get 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:16.560 down to it, Like we're getting to a point now 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:18.680 where we're thinking, yeah, it doesn't matter if you learn 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.159 anything or not. Why do you do you have a 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:25.719 piece of paper? Well, maybe we need to re examine this, 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.120 which I think is part of the point. But uh, 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.280 it's it's certainly one of those circular problems like how 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:35.119 do you how do you qualify what someone's education is 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.000 without that piece of paper, that's the problem. So you've 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:41.960 got Minerva getting accreditation and it's various programs. Like I said, 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.400 I think two of them right now have been accredited 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:48.160 and the other ones are still in the process. Um, 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.360 and they have a presence in San Francisco. That's where 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.800 their first non campus location is. That's they have a 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:57.439 headquarter office there and a dorm. Yeah, so the students 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.960 actually do live in San Francisco, and part of the 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.119 Minerva project plan is not just to have classes, but 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.040 also to do things like field trips to take students 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:11.040 to different areas around where the housing is. And uh, 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.480 they plan on having locations and other cities like Buenos 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:16.959 Aires and Berlin are two of the ones that they 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.600 plan on opening within the next couple of years, and 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.760 then further ones in New York, London, I think Mumbai 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.439 is one of them, and then having the students visit 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.920 for certain periods of time, perhaps a semester, perhaps a year, 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.840 different cities where these dorms exist so that they can 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.600 get that international education that a lot a lot of 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.280 universities really do promise the opportunity for but don't always 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.600 follow through with for all students. Yeah, I mean it's 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:43.879 it's hard to do. I mean, you've got a university 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:47.800 that has a physical location, and maybe you get a 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.680 chance to study abroad with a partnership program or something, 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:52.520 but it's not like you have enough money to apply 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:54.800 for a study abroad program or if you're lucky enough 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:56.879 to get a grant for it. Right, Okay, So I 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.000 want to drill down and focus on the difference this 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.760 would make in the actual classroom experience. Imagine I'm somebody 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:06.720 who enrolls in the Minerva Project and I go into 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.080 the class on a regular class day. What is that 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.600 like and how does it compare to a class in 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.560 traditional higher education? All Right, So here's where we get 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:19.240 into some compare and contrast with mooks. Because if you're 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.800 enrolled in a mook, then use a computer to log 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.639 into an online course and you can do that from 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.399 wherever in the world you happen to be, right, Well, 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.040 in this case, they have an online platform, but you 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.160 have to be at their San Francisco location. But there's 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:37.520 no necessary there's not necessarily a physical classroom you're going into. 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.960 You log in because the professors can be wherever they live. 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:44.600 The professors get the freedom of logging in from wherever 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.120 they happen to have their home base. They are probably 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.000 not in San Francisco. Probably not. And so what you 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:52.239 do is you log into the classroom along with your 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.320 fellow classmates, up to nineteen of you. There are no 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.440 more than that are allowed in a single class, and 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:02.359 everything is using webcams. Uh, there's a they have a 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:06.800 proprietary online platform that allows for the class to take place. 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:09.280 It gives the professor lots of like little bells and 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:13.080 whistles to control the classroom experience. And you had to 0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:15.720 buy a MacBook in order to be a student, was 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.440 one of the sus. Yeah, yeah you can't. Yeah you can't. 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:20.199 You don't get one to supply to you. You do 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:22.800 have to bring your own. And the way it works 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.000 is that you would log in, you log in through 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.160 the software, and you you're in the classroom. Class begins 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:33.600 and uh. The description in Wood's article was pretty interesting. 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:38.040 It's very different from a typical college experience. For like 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.280 a a freshman level class at least. All right, so 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:47.480 imagine that you log in and you're having a discussion about, um, 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:50.879 some let's say Shakespeare. Let's just say Shakespeare, because that 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:54.199 was my my focus when I was in college. Shakespeare 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:58.080 with you? You know, where's your love for Ben Johnson? Oh? 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.479 I have? Would you prefer Milton? All right, let's talk 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:04.320 about Milton. It's let's say that you're focusing on Milton, 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:08.760