Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is Noah.
Speaker 4: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with
Speaker 4: our super producer Dylan Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
Speaker 4: are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want
Speaker 4: you to know. We are recorded on October ninth. If
Speaker 4: you're hearing this the evening this show publishes, then welcome
Speaker 4: to Strange News. And for all our friends in the
Speaker 4: path of Hurricane Milton, we hope this finds you in
Speaker 4: good health. We will have an update with several conspiracy
Speaker 4: theories about these back to back hurricanes Helene and Milton
Speaker 4: in our listener mail program, publishing later this week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we're recording this right now at three twenty
Speaker 2: nine pm ET and watching the radar as the hurricane
Speaker 2: is slamming all across Florida, and we're just thinking about
Speaker 2: everybody who's going through it in this moment as we're recording,
Speaker 2: and you know, fourth dimensionally, as you're hearing this.
Speaker 5: Episode, just you know, hearing the I believe mayor of
Speaker 5: Tampa saying, if you don't leave these evacuation zones, you're
Speaker 5: going to die. I don't think I've ever heard an
Speaker 5: official say something quite that pointed. It made me scared
Speaker 5: for the couple of people I know in the area
Speaker 5: who luckily did evacuate. But I have one friend who
Speaker 5: made it to higher ground but is technically still in
Speaker 5: an evacuation zone.
Speaker 3: And scares the crap out of me. You guys, so thinking.
Speaker 4: About scares the crap out of them.
Speaker 5: Dude, I can only imagine, of course, No, I mean,
Speaker 5: on his behalf. I'm just like thinking about putting myself
Speaker 5: in that position and thinking like I mean, he was
Speaker 5: so zen about it in the conversation that I was
Speaker 5: privy to. But I'm just thinking about you man. You know,
Speaker 5: you know you are if you're listening. I'm not going
Speaker 5: to name any names, but good Lord, what a thing
Speaker 5: to be a part of.
Speaker 4: And we also, some of us have family members in
Speaker 4: the path of Milton, many of our fellow conspiracy realists
Speaker 4: tuning in tonight or in the path of these natural disasters.
Speaker 4: We wanted to underline and emphasize that at the beginning
Speaker 4: of this evening Strange News, we have a lot of
Speaker 4: stuff we're going to explore, including some true crime, including
Speaker 4: some villainy on behalf of the irs, perhaps not in
Speaker 4: the way you might imagine, But before we go to
Speaker 4: our cold open, guys, this made me think again about
Speaker 4: something that is very familiar to those of us in
Speaker 4: the Southeastern United States, specifically the waffle House Index. The
Speaker 4: waffle House Index is an unofficial thing that the US
Speaker 4: government and the media does treat as though it is official,
Speaker 4: with some of us in the audience tonight maybe asking
Speaker 4: what is the waffle House index, and some of us
Speaker 4: may be asking what is waffle house? Is it a
Speaker 4: house built of waffles? Very fair question. This is our
Speaker 4: cold open, and we've returned. We know the waffle house index, right,
Speaker 4: do you guys remember this one?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, I mean it's just the waffle house.
Speaker 5: Waffle Houses are twenty four hour diners that are very
Speaker 5: popular around these parts on the Southeast, and they they
Speaker 5: never close. And when you start seeing them getting boarded
Speaker 5: up and them locking the doors, that's a bad sign.
Speaker 4: M Yeah, I think that's a great insummation because waffle
Speaker 4: house is a chain. The first one is actually here
Speaker 4: in the Atlanta metro area.
Speaker 3: There's a museum attached to it. Apparently.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you have to call in advance. Okay, But
Speaker 4: at least these days, it is best known for being
Speaker 4: a twenty four hour, three hundred and sixty five day
Speaker 4: a year operation. So when waffle House closes, therefore, it
Speaker 4: is seen as kind of a canary in the disaster
Speaker 4: coal mine. And right now old Tampa, Florida locations of
Speaker 4: waffle House have closed again as we're recording on the
Speaker 4: evening of October ninth. A lot of this is I
Speaker 4: don't know. Again, it's unofficial, but I think most people
Speaker 4: in the southeastern United States do pay attention to the
Speaker 4: waffle House index. It's got three colors. If everything's green,
Speaker 4: the waffle house in your area has power minimal absent damage.
Speaker 4: If things go to yellow, they might be using a generator,
Speaker 4: and they might have a limited menu because supply chains
Speaker 4: are broken. And if it's red, like just what happened
Speaker 4: in Tampa, the restaurant is closed.
Speaker 3: If it's beige, waffles aren't available. What color is beige unclear,
Speaker 3: somewhere between white and brown. I'm joking.
Speaker 5: Obviously about the Waffle situation, but no, I mean gosh,
Speaker 5: in these situations, really, all you can do is make
Speaker 5: light occasionally, because it is absurd to gauge a disaster
Speaker 5: of the magnitude of Milton, also with a ridiculous name
Speaker 5: like Milton. I'm sorry to anyone out there named Milton.
Speaker 5: It's just seems like, does it seem like the name
Speaker 5: of something that has this much catastrophic power? But to
Speaker 5: gauge it using a chain of waffle restaurants does seem
Speaker 5: a little absurd. But Ben, You're absolutely right, it is real.
Speaker 5: It is absolutely accurate. And one of the dudes from
Speaker 5: Internet today, it's just a show I think we all
Speaker 5: enjoy on YouTube. Ricky is from the Tampa area and
Speaker 5: he posted on his Instagram today they closed my hometown
Speaker 5: waffle House.
Speaker 3: This is serious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, because they're so well known for disaster preparedness.
Speaker 2: Waffle House, along with a couple other big chains I
Speaker 2: think specifically, I know Home Depot and Walmart feel how
Speaker 2: you will feel about any of these organizations companies, but
Speaker 2: they are really good at having team members that go
Speaker 2: back in immediately after some kind of disaster, no matter
Speaker 2: how big or bad. It is and attempt at least
Speaker 2: to reopen so that there are materials available like at.
Speaker 3: A home depot.
Speaker 2: Right then you a homeowner might need some lumber real quick,
Speaker 2: or you know, just something a tart, and then you
Speaker 2: might need some eggs in dang bacon and if you
Speaker 2: if you can get to a waffle house, you can eat.
Speaker 4: Or potable water as well, which is often given away
Speaker 4: for free. So big shout out to FEMA administrator Craig Fugate,
Speaker 4: who coined the term in May of twenty eleven. We
Speaker 4: may do a ridiculous history on the waffle house index unclear,
Speaker 4: maybe it's a wallfalls episode.
Speaker 5: And really quickly, guys, I just want to I mentioned
Speaker 5: previously that I've experienced some catastrophic damage to the home
Speaker 5: that I owned in Augusta, Georgia, and I just wanted
Speaker 5: to say I had some success with the resource that
Speaker 5: anyone out there who's dealing with this might not be
Speaker 5: aware of. I called the Army Corps of Engineers and
Speaker 5: they referred me to a site called Crisis Cleanup dot
Speaker 5: org where you give them all your information, your case info,
Speaker 5: and they put you on lists that go out to
Speaker 5: numerous different volunteer groups, and they said it was a
Speaker 5: long shot. They had thousands and thousands of cases. But
Speaker 5: I did hear back from somebody from a group called
Speaker 5: Team Rubicon that is actually a team of a nonprofit
Speaker 5: that is staffed by veterans, Army veterans, and they, you know,
Speaker 5: are going to send somebody out to my property to
Speaker 5: help with the cleanup. And they even said, you know
Speaker 5: it is if you have an insurance, it's going to
Speaker 5: pay for water mitigation. We will come out and do
Speaker 5: it and it'll save you something on your policy.
Speaker 3: They were okay with that.
Speaker 5: So I mean, that's it's just really neat the level
Speaker 5: of care they were offering, you know, even for me
Speaker 5: who does not rely on this place for my you know,
Speaker 5: main domicile, they were very willing to help. And I
Speaker 5: thought that was cool. So Chrisis Cleanup dot org check
Speaker 5: it out if it's not something you're aware of.
Speaker 4: Right up there with Convoy of Hope, big thanks to
Speaker 4: GP Scooch forgive them a shout out. Pretty top tier
Speaker 4: charitable organizations, and I love the shout out you gave there, Noll,
Speaker 4: because resources do matter, and it can be so difficult
Speaker 4: to locate those especially at a very difficult time of
Speaker 4: your life.
Speaker 5: Well yeah, I mean, and it's you know, even for
Speaker 5: me with not being someone who's out of home because
Speaker 5: of this, I just found it overwhelming, like not knowing
Speaker 5: the next step. I've been texting with you guys about it,
Speaker 5: just the levels of stress and just knowing what the
Speaker 5: next right thing to do is. So to have any
Speaker 5: kind of resource that you maybe weren't aware of of,
Speaker 5: anyone that can lend a hand, is a huge deal,
Speaker 5: just knowing. So just you know, thank you been in
Speaker 5: first and Scooch for the other recommendation. But you know,
Speaker 5: I've talked to numerous people who are dealing with I
Speaker 5: had no idea what kind of resources might be available.
Speaker 4: To them, because luckily, for now, this sort of emergency
Speaker 4: and disaster is not normalized larger questions about the future.
Speaker 4: Speaking of questions, I have a question for you guys
Speaker 4: and all of us listening along at home. Would you
Speaker 4: prefer to hear about espionage or space bricks? Space bricks?
Speaker 3: Well, jeez, Ben, when you put it that way, how
Speaker 3: about space bricks to start?
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, all right, tilted the scale just a bit,
Speaker 4: just the gilded the lily, right, there we go. The
Speaker 4: question that I'm sure we are all asking at numerous
Speaker 4: times in our lives is when the age of space
Speaker 4: exploration reaches its apex, how are we going to build structures?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 4: For a lot of fellow Nosferatu in the crowd, the
Speaker 4: answer is, of course, human blood.
Speaker 3: Right, got one for sure?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Okay, all right, I like that face. So there
Speaker 4: is a study that answered a question seriously, no one
Speaker 4: has asked. And this study out of Manchester, published in
Speaker 4: Open Engineering recently concluded that potatoes are better than human
Speaker 4: blood for making space bricks.
Speaker 2: Congratulations, humanity, we figured it out.
Speaker 3: This is a question. Who asked for this exactly?
Speaker 2: Idaho potatoes and the.
Speaker 5: Potato they're trying to extend it out into the cosmos.
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually it was the vampires were like, yes, we
Speaker 2: need the bloods.
Speaker 5: Yes, that's why potatoes greater than blood when it comes
Speaker 5: to space breaks. Is that? Okay? I'm just wondering where
Speaker 5: this equivalency came from. Where Where did the need to
Speaker 5: compare these two materials come from?
Speaker 4: Well, you're getting situations. The portmanteau for it is star
Speaker 4: creet like concrete, but you know stars because of space.
Speaker 4: I don't think that's a long walk, but.
Speaker 2: Ben was the idea of it. All the humans that
Speaker 2: are making these trips are gonna have blood, so we'll
Speaker 2: just take some of that and make bricks and urine.
Speaker 4: They will be peeing the entire time.
Speaker 2: What about of the poo poo, precious, precious, that's the
Speaker 2: night soil, right, we talked about that.
Speaker 4: That's our gunk we mentioned earlier. So shout out to
Speaker 4: Alied Roberts, A L. E. Ed Roberts, the lead researcher
Speaker 4: for this thing called the star Crete project, and they're
Speaker 4: actually they're they're answering these questions that might sound silly
Speaker 4: in a popsy headline, but they do. I don't know,
Speaker 4: it's such it's such a weird after the fact kind
Speaker 4: of disclosure, like when we're talking about psychic power countermeasures
Speaker 4: when Stargate not star Crete, when Stargate was declassified and
Speaker 4: people said, yeah, we we did look into that. It
Speaker 4: was cool, but we're not doing it anymore. You can
Speaker 4: get a little bit of fomo as a taxpayer or
Speaker 4: as an interested member of civilization. And so the idea,
Speaker 4: like the the idea of coming out with a study
Speaker 4: that says potato starch is better than human blood for
Speaker 4: making space bricks. There are at least three to four
Speaker 4: questions pulled it in to the least statement.
Speaker 5: I think we addressed a couple of them. But why
Speaker 5: don't we Let's just knock them off one at a time.
Speaker 2: I gotta say, but it doesn't help when space dot
Speaker 2: Com at the end of their article says Comma scientists say, yes,
Speaker 2: I feel like that phrase after anything makes you go
Speaker 2: oh the scientists said it, Oh okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's also like adding ellipses. Officially the two.
Speaker 2: Things right according to officials.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The best statement from Roberts that tells us about this.
Speaker 4: This is a series of studies. Robert says, quote, astronauts
Speaker 4: probably don't want to be living in houses made from
Speaker 4: scabs and your We've all been there, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 3: Debatable.
Speaker 4: There's like one astronaut who's super into it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds great. Do you think he's the worst astronaut?
Speaker 3: Is that come along with Neil?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Neil not Armstrong? Different Neil?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that guy. Guy's a monster. He's at Applebee's right now.
Speaker 2: Mmmm.
Speaker 3: The leg wek and what they said.
Speaker 4: Is uh, you know, as gross as it may sound,
Speaker 4: they are looking with real science, right, with genuine methodology
Speaker 4: and rigor. And in their initial study they explored the
Speaker 4: possibility of blood and urine and other human fluids as
Speaker 4: binding agents to create something like concrete. Because to your
Speaker 4: earlier point there, these should be considered renewable resources. They're
Speaker 4: one of the few things that will always be consistently
Speaker 4: produced by humans living in space and other you know,
Speaker 4: terrestrial organisms. So they did this second study and they
Speaker 4: looked into potato flakes, and they found that not only
Speaker 4: are potato flakes and alternative source of star creet, but
Speaker 4: they are indeed less ghoulish and perhaps more efficient. The
Speaker 4: specific salt compound they're using as something called magnesium chloride.
Speaker 4: Without getting into the chemical weeds, the main wind for
Speaker 4: magnesium chloride is that you can get it from the
Speaker 4: dirt on Mars. So looks like at this point either
Speaker 4: or preferable, but like, if any of it works, these
Speaker 4: are pretty great because, as we talk about so often,
Speaker 4: you can't actually move concrete through space, not in a
Speaker 4: reasonable way.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, you have to make it there.
Speaker 5: I mean whatever whatever it's made at, it would have
Speaker 5: to be manufactured on site with like movable materials. I
Speaker 5: mean that's true of construction sites too, like they mix
Speaker 5: the stuff like there, it would be prohibitively. I mean,
Speaker 5: there are certain I guess concrete structures you might see
Speaker 5: on the back of a flatbed, but it's pretty rare.
Speaker 3: Usually you have to pour that stuff on the construction site.
Speaker 2: I'm imagining you have to use some kind of water
Speaker 2: as well with the mixture, because you can't just make
Speaker 2: a powdered thing. You know, you make a powder thing,
Speaker 2: you add water to it. That's one of the first
Speaker 2: ways you get to being able to even form a brick,
Speaker 2: right and then dry the thing out. Have they thought
Speaker 2: about just spinning up all the waste together instead of
Speaker 2: separating the blood or the urine or any of the
Speaker 2: other stuff.
Speaker 3: Like suicide, like well, you know when you mix all
Speaker 3: the sodas well.
Speaker 2: I'm just imagining all of the waste products that the
Speaker 2: astronauts produce as one thing goes into one chamber, and
Speaker 2: that chamber then siphon's directly into wherever they're brick building.
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm, yeah, yeah, there literal beating your their literal
Speaker 4: brickjit house.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you just feed the astronauts mostly potato flakes,
Speaker 2: and then there are it's already in there. It's just
Speaker 2: broken down a little.
Speaker 4: And the weirdest thing is if you make this star
Speaker 4: creak with potato starch, that magnesium chloride, and what we
Speaker 4: believe to be lunar or martian dirt, it is twice
Speaker 4: as strong as the known concrete recipe we have on
Speaker 4: the planet today. If you want to learn more about it,
Speaker 4: check out that excellent article referenced earlier from space dot
Speaker 4: com by the journalist Josh Dinner, which is just an
Speaker 4: awesome name.
Speaker 3: It's pretty great.
Speaker 4: It's pretty great, you know, if you could choose a name,
Speaker 4: that's a good choice. And uh, I don't know, like
Speaker 4: it seems as though it's a silly question, but it
Speaker 4: does I think like a lot of a lot of
Speaker 4: hypothetical research or theoretical research for space exploration. It tells
Speaker 4: us even more about life on the ground here, right,
Speaker 4: the you know, one of the big questions vampire stuff
Speaker 4: aside is the idea of whether or not we should
Speaker 4: use food sources as means of construction, and if so,
Speaker 4: to what degree kind of like water.
Speaker 5: Power, right, I mean, it's interesting in like a futurist
Speaker 5: kind of conversation too, because it certainly does make you
Speaker 5: think about, like we talked about this, I believe even
Speaker 5: is the idea of building materials here on Earth and
Speaker 5: like things that are more sustainable and what like. I
Speaker 5: believe there was a story we did about like insect
Speaker 5: kitan that was used to generate some sort of futuristic
Speaker 5: kind of building material. I mean, I'm just I don't know.
Speaker 5: It just got me thinking about that kind of stuff
Speaker 5: as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and also, uh, to that point in the world
Speaker 4: of folklore and mythology, it reminds me a bit of
Speaker 4: ild Nordic myths about a ship made of fingernails to
Speaker 4: survive the end of the world.
Speaker 2: Oh God, yeah, man, No, uh, I just got a
Speaker 2: picture now of Okay, if you let's say you're on
Speaker 2: the lunar surface, you're building these bricks, right, Let's say
Speaker 2: in this case, we're building the slightly less strong but
Speaker 2: more strong than bricks on Earth, bricks with blood and urine.
Speaker 2: We're making those, right, Yeah, And we're constructing stuff on
Speaker 2: the moon. Are we creating some kind of giant artificial
Speaker 2: dome that all of those bricked buildings exist in where
Speaker 2: we can take off our helmets and smell the bricks
Speaker 2: or are we walking around in helmets in these things?
Speaker 2: Because how do you make the artificial atmosphere in a
Speaker 2: brick made building?
Speaker 4: Ah, the smell that Matt like, just yeah, I mean, you're.
Speaker 2: Gonna pump enough oxygen and nitrogen and carbon dioxide into
Speaker 2: that brick building that you made out of, you know,
Speaker 2: even if it's potato flake bricks.
Speaker 4: Do you have to figure out you have to figure
Speaker 4: out a scrubbing method for the air. Also classic human
Speaker 4: for space exploration to work out. And every off Earth
Speaker 4: base smells vaguely of old French fries or piss, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean. Now that's there. These are all
Speaker 4: free Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, and uh and we're gonna
Speaker 4: we're gonna move on before we get to you an
Speaker 4: ad break. We do want you to know that the
Speaker 4: government of China has been confirmed to hack major US
Speaker 4: telecom firms. This confirmed for firms. We'll let it ride.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So what is it that you say, no, really,
Speaker 5: no way.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And we also know that, in addition to these accusations,
Speaker 4: the government of China has of course predictably ramped up
Speaker 4: information campaigns as we go into the US election doesn't
Speaker 4: matter what your ideology is. They want the chaos.
Speaker 5: Well, when these types of allegations surface, does the government
Speaker 5: of China just say, how dare you, sir, accuse us
Speaker 5: of such malfeasance?
Speaker 3: We would never.
Speaker 4: Typically, historically the response has been, we didn't actually tell
Speaker 4: anyone to do this. You know, the fifty cent army
Speaker 4: which we mentioned earlier. It's just a bunch of private
Speaker 4: citizens who happen to be lockstep in march with party goals.
Speaker 3: Some plausible deniability is sort of what they're leading. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And if you want to learn more about the
Speaker 4: AI weaponization, which is going to be a thing going forward,
Speaker 4: check out the article in Fortune dot com by Diddy
Speaker 4: Tang David Klepper And, of course, with some love from
Speaker 4: the Associated Press, shout out to the seventy two year
Speaker 4: old man who has been sentenced to prison in Rush
Speaker 4: is a US national. He is allegedly, or conclusively, according
Speaker 4: to the Russian government, a mercenary. Stephen James Hubbard sentenced
Speaker 4: to six years and ten months in prison as a
Speaker 4: seventy two year old man on accusations of being a
Speaker 4: mercenary for Ukraine. And we don't know how many merks
Speaker 4: are in the crowd tonight. We don't know how many
Speaker 4: you know, you have personally met in your life, but
Speaker 4: I think it's safe to say, you guys, most of
Speaker 4: them are not seventy two years old.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean they will be, or they became seventy
Speaker 2: two at some point.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you know, probably after their careers, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean.
Speaker 2: Look, if somebody's been a mercenary, even at seventy two,
Speaker 2: you're not going to mess with that seventy two year
Speaker 2: old ex mercenary. No, it's what he's saying, there's.
Speaker 4: A respect aside.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's probably damage to be done there if it
Speaker 2: was either necessary or intended.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like what they lose in vinegar, they more
Speaker 4: than make up for inexperience and knowledge with that. If
Speaker 4: you happen to have some opinions we'll say, or hypothetical
Speaker 4: anecdotes about the world of merks and third party operators,
Speaker 4: we'd love to hear from you, conspiracydiheartradio dot com. We're
Speaker 4: going to take a pause for a word from our sponsors,
Speaker 4: and we will return with more strange news.
Speaker 2: And we're back, guys. I have a tale for us
Speaker 2: today from our own backyard from the Atlanta Greater Metropolitan Area,
Speaker 2: and it is a strange one. It's a tragic story.
Speaker 2: It's pretty sad, it's very confusing, and that's why we're
Speaker 2: going to talk about it. This is a quick warning
Speaker 2: ahead here. You are going to hear audio in this
Speaker 2: segment of some of the final moments of a person's life.
Speaker 2: But it is not the moments when that person's life ended.
Speaker 2: It is just the run up to an incident where
Speaker 2: shooting occurred. So just be aware of that that's going
Speaker 2: to happen in this segment. Okay, before we even get
Speaker 2: into the story, you guys, let's talk about something called
Speaker 2: Crime Is Toast. Have you ever heard of this before? Nope, Okay,
Speaker 2: I had never heard of it either. This is an
Speaker 2: annual awards ceremony. It's an awards breakfast that is put
Speaker 2: on by the Atlanta Police Foundation for the Atlanta Police Department.
Speaker 2: This year, the Crime Is Toast Awards occurred on September
Speaker 2: twenty fourth, so you know what, a couple of weeks
Speaker 2: ago from the day we're recording this episode, and I'm
Speaker 2: just going to give you a couple of pieces of
Speaker 2: information from that awards ceremony. And this is coming from
Speaker 2: the Atlanta Journal Constitution. You can read about it search
Speaker 2: for officers recized for response to Atlanta food court shooting,
Speaker 2: Comma bus hijacking. Atlanta Mayor Andre Dickens was there speaking,
Speaker 2: you know, to this audience of police officers and supporters
Speaker 2: of the APD, praising them for reducing homicides by twenty
Speaker 2: one percent over the course of the year. And here's
Speaker 2: a quick quote from Mayor Andre Dickens, and he's speaking
Speaker 2: about the APD together they have fostered a coordinated effort
Speaker 2: to fight crime, make our neighborhood safer, and provide opportunities
Speaker 2: for our youth. Many of you here today represent that
Speaker 2: united effort. We know that the job of making Atlanta
Speaker 2: safer is never finished. This is important because this is
Speaker 2: just showing this is the City of Atlanta, at least
Speaker 2: the leadership of the City of Atlanta putting on you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know a PEP rally. I suppose in a
Speaker 2: way for the police officers that protect the city or
Speaker 2: are paid to serve and protect the city. There are
Speaker 2: several words of note that were given out that are
Speaker 2: mentioned in this a JC article that's the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
Speaker 2: A police officer named Lamar Jacobs received the Medal of
Speaker 2: Honor award, which is the highest honor the APD can bestow,
Speaker 2: and that was for his response to the Midtown food
Speaker 2: court shooting. Do you guys remember hearing about that That
Speaker 2: happened on June eleventh. This is an area where Dragon
Speaker 2: Cohn occurs every year. Most people who don't live in
Speaker 2: Atlanta would know it as that area. It was a
Speaker 2: big deal, so he received the Medal of Honor. Sergeant
Speaker 2: Terrence Epps was recognized as Supervisor of the Year for
Speaker 2: responding to a bus hijacking. Officers Francis Raymondville Watson, and
Speaker 2: Ruben Miranda were named Officers of the Year, and another man,
Speaker 2: investigator Aubrey Horton, was named Investigator of the Year. On
Speaker 2: September twenty fourth of this year. As we're recording this episode, Okay,
Speaker 2: remember that name, Aubrey Horton. Here we go. Let's move
Speaker 2: on to what has occurred in what this story is
Speaker 2: actually about. According to eleven Alive News, who wrote an
Speaker 2: article titled APD investigator shot after breaking into Douglas County home,
Speaker 2: authorities say, see that thing we mentioned before, The authorities.
Speaker 3: Said it like the scientist didn't say exactly.
Speaker 2: I'm going to read directly from this article. Thank you
Speaker 2: for writing it. Eleven alive. An Atlanta Police Department officer
Speaker 2: died after being shot by a homeowner on the morning
Speaker 2: of Friday, October fourth, So from September twenty fourth to
Speaker 2: October fourth, Okay, that's not many days at all. The
Speaker 2: officer was identified as Investigator Aubrey Horton, the very same
Speaker 2: one we just spoke about, who received Investigator of the
Speaker 2: Year by the APD. The Douglas County Sheriff's Office and
Speaker 2: deputies were called to a home. I'll give you the
Speaker 2: exact thing, so you can look it up if you'd like,
Speaker 2: to a home on orkneyrkn e Y Way, near East
Speaker 2: Carroll Road in the Saint Andrews Country Club neighborhood in Winston, Georgia.
Speaker 2: It was around five am when this occurred and there
Speaker 2: was a shooting, so the Sheriff's office were called almost
Speaker 2: immediately after five am that morning. Investigator said Horton appeared
Speaker 2: to be either experiencing a mental health episode or under
Speaker 2: the influence of narcotics when he tried to break into
Speaker 2: a home in that neighborhood and Horton, according to tax records,
Speaker 2: lives in the same neighborhood. But at some point in
Speaker 2: whatever occurred, investigator Horton made his way into the home,
Speaker 2: was confronted by the homeowner and was shot, and he
Speaker 2: shot fatally and killed while inside the home that he
Speaker 2: broke into. So, first of all, this is very strange
Speaker 2: that somebody who joined the police force in twenty fifteen
Speaker 2: has been doing I guess good enough work to be recognized,
Speaker 2: you know, as one out of all of the police
Speaker 2: officers in the Atlanta Police Department as Investigator of the Year.
Speaker 2: To go through something whatever it was, to then try
Speaker 2: to break into some home and then get shot and killed,
Speaker 2: very very weird. Do you guys have any thoughts initially
Speaker 2: just at all about this. I know we haven't really
Speaker 2: talked about anything that we can even discuss yet. It's
Speaker 2: it's just weird.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for contexts. As we mentioned age of death, again,
Speaker 4: the investigator was only in their early thirties in thirty two,
Speaker 4: so that's a very that's a very high career trajectory
Speaker 4: to get. As you mentioned, the highest possible award that
Speaker 4: can be bestowed the investigation of course, as you mentioned,
Speaker 4: Matt is ongoing. However, Georgia does have self defense laws,
Speaker 4: so even if you know, it reminds me a bit
Speaker 4: of the Leonard Peltier case, where you know, a big
Speaker 4: a big part of the the shootout in which those
Speaker 4: two FBI agents were murdered, A big part of the
Speaker 4: questions the jury held where did the people know that
Speaker 4: they were firing on FBI agents? To this point, it
Speaker 4: seems that if the guy lives just a half mile
Speaker 4: away from where the incident occurs, there's a very high
Speaker 4: likelihood that these folks may have been familiar with each other.
Speaker 4: Is that fair to conjecture?
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, that's something you'd think, especially if because it
Speaker 2: is a country club kind of thing, it's likely that
Speaker 2: people at least that are aware of each other. He
Speaker 2: didn't live far away at all, in the same neighborhood. However,
Speaker 2: investigators there have made it very clear that they did
Speaker 2: not know each other at least, and this is crucial
Speaker 2: to me at least as we continue forward, the homeowner,
Speaker 2: the man that lived there, who fired the fatal shot,
Speaker 2: who attempted to answer the door when this person came
Speaker 2: up to the door, and then the person broke in
Speaker 2: and then shot whoever this person was. He did not
Speaker 2: know who Officer Aubrey was.
Speaker 4: And that's why I was asking, because I think that's
Speaker 4: one of the first questions those of us listening along
Speaker 4: at home will ask.
Speaker 2: Yes, But there are multiple people who live at the
Speaker 2: house too, so it's unknown if just the homeowner was
Speaker 2: unaware of this person. So that is an answer that
Speaker 2: I kind of still have, but i'm you know, if
Speaker 2: I was an investigator, I'd be asking questions about that.
Speaker 5: And one thing that came up in the Peltier story too,
Speaker 5: is like, does the fact that a police are entering
Speaker 5: your home automatically make that a legitimate act?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 5: Or or the fact that police or federal agents or
Speaker 5: whatever are rating your property or coming for you in
Speaker 5: some form or fashion. If it's not legitimate, do you
Speaker 5: have the right to defend yourself?
Speaker 4: Okay, yes, in a self defense situation in states that
Speaker 4: have that kind of legislation, you do have the right,
Speaker 4: depending on the first is it a uniformed member of
Speaker 4: El EO or is it some guy who is not
Speaker 4: in uniform does not have a warrant. We have to
Speaker 4: remember history is again closer than it looks in the
Speaker 4: rear view mirror. It is not too long ago that
Speaker 4: people employed by the Atlanta Police Department conducted an erroneous
Speaker 4: kick door at the wrong address and they killed an
Speaker 4: elderly woman, absolutely a grandmother.
Speaker 2: Well, that's something that has occurred across this country, right
Speaker 2: where the wrong door gets kicked in, wrong person gets attacked.
Speaker 2: But I have to go back to exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 2: If it is a police officer coming into your house,
Speaker 2: that's one thing this person. According to the AJAC. You
Speaker 2: can look this up. It is titled in more details
Speaker 2: and fatal shooting of APD investigator accused of breaking into home.
Speaker 2: It's published on October seventh. This is a quote. When
Speaker 2: Sheriff's Office investigators arrived at the scene, they were initially
Speaker 2: unable to identify Horton because he didn't have ID, and
Speaker 2: he was not wearing shoes and not wearing a shirt.
Speaker 5: And he was not well. This man was in a
Speaker 5: fugue state of some kind or under the inf I mean,
Speaker 5: something was going on.
Speaker 2: What the hell something was wrong, which leads us guys
Speaker 2: to the video footage, which is then released. There were
Speaker 2: security cameras set up by the homeowner because his house
Speaker 2: had been burgled or an attempted burglary earlier, so he
Speaker 2: set up a bunch of ring cameras on his house.
Speaker 2: So the authorities released this video on Facebook, which was
Speaker 2: then picked up by everybody from you know, Fox five
Speaker 2: Atlanta to eleven Alive to WSB and guys. Since this
Speaker 2: is an audio only medium, I figured we would listen
Speaker 2: to the audio and imagine being in the homeowner's shoes
Speaker 2: at least for a moment, and hearing this at five
Speaker 2: am in the morning, immediately after your spouse has left
Speaker 2: for work, like we're talking almost immediately after your spouse
Speaker 2: leaves for work. Then you hear this, yes, oh no,
Speaker 2: tell me recording. Now we should note this is happening
Speaker 2: on the front doorstep.
Speaker 5: This is terrifying, isn't terrify ying that's someone having a
Speaker 5: psychotic episode or under the influence of serious drugs.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can discern that something is very, very very
Speaker 2: wrong and what you cannot hear very well in this audio,
Speaker 2: but you can. I've enhanced it a little bit so
Speaker 2: we could hear the background in just a moment, but
Speaker 2: you can hear the homeowner speaking through the door and
Speaker 2: asking for his spouse's name, which I guess we can
Speaker 2: say because this video has been released. Her name is Pam,
Speaker 2: and he's calling out for Pam, like wondering if Pam
Speaker 2: is okay, because she literally just left. There's a moment
Speaker 2: we maybe we don't have to. I don't know. Is
Speaker 2: this two morbid guys? To listen to this?
Speaker 3: Oh? I mean it's fascinating and terrifying.
Speaker 5: Yes, it's morbid, Matt, but I think it's an important
Speaker 5: part of the story.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, we're going to continue on and listen to
Speaker 2: what occurs because you can hear mister Horton's kind of
Speaker 2: just sitting there on the porch for a little bit
Speaker 2: and at some point he exclaims, which kind of again
Speaker 2: frightened the homeowner. And right after this audio ends is
Speaker 2: when there's some sort of altercation at the door where
Speaker 2: the homeowner opens the door just slightly, you know, like
Speaker 2: barely a jar, and Horton pushes his way in, and
Speaker 2: that's when the shooting occurs. So let's just continue a
Speaker 2: little bit further here. That's the homeowner.
Speaker 3: Yeah, who are you? Wow? What is going on with
Speaker 3: this guy?
Speaker 4: I love you?
Speaker 1: No, k.
Speaker 2: That's him. Falling backwards. Sounds like he says, I miss
Speaker 2: happiness or something like that.
Speaker 3: I love you, just kill me. Yeah, So.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Chilling, dude.
Speaker 2: I just it is chilling. And to me, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to put my mind in everybody's position in this, especially
Speaker 2: the homeowner's position, or in the responding officer's position. Just
Speaker 2: in any and even in mister Horton's position, I can't
Speaker 2: imagine what you would have to be going through to
Speaker 2: to be saying those things and doing those things. But
Speaker 2: in the homeowner's position, just this is terrifying and you
Speaker 2: want to find out what's going on. You live in
Speaker 2: a fairly uh what would be I do quotation marks
Speaker 2: safe area, so you're probably not expecting anything like this,
Speaker 2: although he did his house was broken into, right, That's
Speaker 2: why he put the cameras up, So he's also primed
Speaker 2: for another break in of some sort, because there's something
Speaker 2: that that does to you mentally when you put a
Speaker 2: bunch of security cameras up in your house and other
Speaker 2: you know, things to protect your home, you think about
Speaker 2: it more often a little bit at least. I don't
Speaker 2: know we can continue on, guys. I just, uh, it
Speaker 2: really weirded me out this whole thing. Hearing all that stuff.
Speaker 2: It sounds like he's calling out to a specific person
Speaker 2: that maybe he thinks is in this house.
Speaker 3: But didn't you say he said the spouse's name?
Speaker 2: The husband, the homeowner calls out for his spouse.
Speaker 3: Misunderstood, got it to my ears.
Speaker 2: It sounds like Horton says, I miss happiness and then
Speaker 2: states a name or something or another word after that
Speaker 2: that I can't discern.
Speaker 4: And if it's, if it's, we'll say this, folks. We
Speaker 4: are very well aware. Like when you see the video,
Speaker 4: Matt did a great job bringing out like so we
Speaker 4: can hear more clearly the statements there from someone who's,
Speaker 4: as we say, clearly disturbed. One thing that's important is
Speaker 4: we have to remember it can be dangerously tempting to
Speaker 4: read tea leaves from video or audio. There is, I assume,
Speaker 4: and let me know if this is incorrect. There is
Speaker 4: an active investigation, perhaps into the circumstances surrounding these tragic events,
Speaker 4: like as far as what led this guy to this
Speaker 4: situation just days after the awards ceremony.
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely yes, it's a tragic situation. But there's also
Speaker 2: the thin blue line thing going on where there is
Speaker 2: an officer who knows what fully is going to come
Speaker 2: out about it because he is the one who ended
Speaker 2: up getting hurt. He did not make anybody else a victim,
Speaker 2: and the homeowner is not being charged. Well, I guess
Speaker 2: the victim is the homeowner because it was a break.
Speaker 4: In, right, right, but again self defense, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: So homeowners not being charged. The authorities are saying there
Speaker 2: are a bunch of conspiracy theories basically being generated about
Speaker 2: this right now, mostly having to do with mister Horton
Speaker 2: knowing the homeowner or somebody else that he was trying
Speaker 2: to contact in that moment. Anyway, weird stuff. You can
Speaker 2: look more into this. It just felt strange enough that
Speaker 2: we should mention it. Let's move on and hear a
Speaker 2: word from our sponsor, and we'll be right back with
Speaker 2: more strange news.
Speaker 5: And we're back with one more piece of strange news.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 5: You know the thing they say that they and stuff
Speaker 5: they don't want you to know maybe, is that there
Speaker 5: are two things that are certain in this life.
Speaker 3: You know those aren't death and taxes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've also heard death taxes in trouble. Shout out
Speaker 4: the black thought.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there you go, not necessarily on that bingo card.
Speaker 5: Of the prerequisites for existence to become a hostage of
Speaker 5: a foreign entity, be it a terrorist group or a
Speaker 5: foreign country. We know this happens. US citizens traveling abroad
Speaker 5: can end up on the wrong side of the law,
Speaker 5: or are used as bargaining chips, or they can be
Speaker 5: used in order to leverage, you know, power against the
Speaker 5: US government, et cetera. And we talked about extradition and
Speaker 5: hostage exchanges and all of that. We know that sometimes
Speaker 5: US citizens traveling abroad can be scooped up in order
Speaker 5: to leverage in exchange of a political prisoner, you know,
Speaker 5: the the US is holding, right Ben shut.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 5: So we know this is something that happens oftentimes. You know,
Speaker 5: people are held obviously against their will for a long time.
Speaker 5: You know, it can be years, and hopefully, through the
Speaker 5: through diplomacy, they are returned to the United States in
Speaker 5: order to you know, return to their normal lives and
Speaker 5: and be with their families and you know, go back
Speaker 5: to their jobs and all of that. And you would
Speaker 5: think that the last thing that anyone in that situation
Speaker 5: would need to worry about would be answering the question
Speaker 5: of did I pay my taxes? Well, the IRS seems
Speaker 5: to think that that's exactly what they should be asking themselves.
Speaker 5: And I told a friend of mine when I happened
Speaker 5: upon this story, is this not the most IRS thing
Speaker 5: you've ever heard? Just like the idea like no one
Speaker 5: is safe, even apparently political prisoners.
Speaker 4: It's like that thing where if you sell drugs, the
Speaker 4: I R. S isn't mad at you, but they want
Speaker 4: you to report your income.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we even talked about I believe we had an interview.
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, I'm forgetting his name now. I think
Speaker 5: it was we interviewed this that guy who was like
Speaker 5: buddies with Dick Gregory and so he was like a
Speaker 5: street performer in Venice Beach and he was like.
Speaker 3: A poet and then a really interesting dude.
Speaker 5: And he gosh, I'm so sorry that I'm forgetting his name,
Speaker 5: but we had him on the show and he was
Speaker 5: talking about how his street performances in Venice became so
Speaker 5: lucrative for him and so popular that they started sending
Speaker 5: undercover IRS agents to keep tabs on him and see
Speaker 5: how much income he was generating so they could then
Speaker 5: send him a bill.
Speaker 3: So this is real.
Speaker 5: This is the kind of stuff that the government does
Speaker 5: when it comes to getting paid.
Speaker 3: They are all up in your business.
Speaker 2: No, you're saying, this is not some kind of like
Speaker 2: accidental oversight.
Speaker 3: This is like, this is the law of the land.
Speaker 3: O lord.
Speaker 4: And this was the person interviewed referenced earlier was Michael Collier.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we'll get into some more specifics here too.
Speaker 5: I wanted to reference a fabulous extended peace in the
Speaker 5: Economic policy section of the Washington Post written.
Speaker 3: By Jacob Bogage or Bogage and Julie Zosmer.
Speaker 5: Wile US hostages still owe taxes, Congress might not help.
Speaker 5: So the implication here in the headline says it all
Speaker 5: is that this would take an Act of Congress to
Speaker 5: do something about because representatives from the IRS have said, yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean sure, this seems a little rough, but it
Speaker 5: is not within our legal rights to waive these fees,
Speaker 5: because we are talking about back taxes, the taxes themselves,
Speaker 5: but also late fees and interest fees, interest payments, you know,
Speaker 5: for the time spent away presumably under lock and key,
Speaker 5: with zero access to any kind of ability to pay
Speaker 5: your taxes.
Speaker 4: And this is not punitive. Like shout out to Hattah
Speaker 4: Errant and the concept of the banality of evil right
Speaker 4: and cold systems. This feels like at least well you
Speaker 4: tell me no. It feels as though this is one
Speaker 4: of those things where you might write to the IRS
Speaker 4: and say, hey, bt dubs, I barely survive being held
Speaker 4: hostage and I didn't really have income that year, and
Speaker 4: they might they might say, well, hey, man.
Speaker 3: We'll cut you a check. You know, Hey, here's what.
Speaker 4: You're saying, Well, we've got the system and we don't
Speaker 4: really have Like the IRS is very form oriented, right Well,
Speaker 4: I don't think there's a ten to forty z's right
Speaker 4: or whatever for a.
Speaker 3: Hostage situation, right Ben.
Speaker 5: And you know, and I don't know that we're going
Speaker 5: to get into some some specifics of some individuals that
Speaker 5: were in this situation, so I don't know the specifics
Speaker 5: of their finances. But one would also imagine that that
Speaker 5: amount of time spent away would be time where you
Speaker 5: weren't earning income, and therefore you would think there would
Speaker 5: be something, some arrangement that could be made.
Speaker 3: This would not be a punitive situation. But apparently the IRS.
Speaker 5: There is a according to this article in the Post.
Speaker 5: The IBS is gonna quot it because I think it's
Speaker 5: very well said here. The IRS has a long standing
Speaker 5: practice of forgiveness for people who are held hostage by
Speaker 5: non state organizations, including hamas and groups like the Islamic
Speaker 5: State or BOCO.
Speaker 3: So that's that's on the books, or again, I'm not
Speaker 3: sure exactly how it's codified.
Speaker 5: This was from a Westerley Washington Post columnist, Jason Rezion,
Speaker 5: who actually was himself a hostage. He was returned to
Speaker 5: the United States in twenty sixteen after five hundred and
Speaker 5: forty four days in Iranian captivity, and awaiting him upon
Speaker 5: his return was a six thousand dollars tax bill.
Speaker 4: Great, cool, tight, good job. Yeah, that's so messed up.
Speaker 3: The way he puts it is this.
Speaker 5: When I returned home from Iran in twenty sixteen after
Speaker 5: being imprisoned for nearly a year and a half, I
Speaker 5: found that the IRS had charged me with thousands of
Speaker 5: dollars in penalties for not filing my taxes on time.
Speaker 5: The usual penalties had compounded. I was sleeping less than
Speaker 5: three hours a night, repeatedly waking from nightmares that I
Speaker 5: was back in prison. During the day. I was distracted
Speaker 5: and having trouble concentrating, so I neglected to sit down
Speaker 5: and address the problem.
Speaker 3: What a diplomatic way of like saying, f you the irs.
Speaker 5: I had other things going on, you know, like PTSD,
Speaker 5: like night terrors, Like I mean, it's the kind of
Speaker 5: thing you think about when when you hear about often
Speaker 5: the way returning veterans can be treated, you know, like
Speaker 5: you've done this service for your country, You've given your life,
Speaker 5: you've put your life on the line, and then you
Speaker 5: come back and you are treated like a second class citizen.
Speaker 4: And yeah, we should say, real quick, it might sound
Speaker 4: odd to hear this guy Jason's name and wonder why
Speaker 4: he was held for almost two years by Iran. To
Speaker 4: be very clear, folks, especially if you have Iranian heritage
Speaker 4: and you are American, the Iranian government considers you Iranian
Speaker 4: and has very few qualms about detaining you.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and he was working for the Washington Post, right,
Speaker 2: he was, correct, Greg Hetty, He was bureau chief, so
Speaker 2: he was one of the top guys.
Speaker 3: Well, there's another wrinkle in this story, guys.
Speaker 5: I mentioned the whole idea of Congress of taking an
Speaker 5: Act of Congress to get this on the books. Well,
Speaker 5: this is being attempted. There are those in the legislature
Speaker 5: who are spearheading a bill that would deal with this
Speaker 5: unfortunate situation.
Speaker 3: This unfortunate, I would argue, pretty egregious oversight.
Speaker 5: There are members of Congress who are aligning in order
Speaker 5: to change the law so that Americans who are held
Speaker 5: wrongfully or detained by these terrorist organizations or foreign governments.
Speaker 5: Let's add that because again we know that the terrorist
Speaker 5: organization thing is already somewhat on the books, don't know
Speaker 5: exactly what the language around that is.
Speaker 3: Seems like it.
Speaker 5: Could also offer some wiggle room to prevent you know,
Speaker 5: the irs from going after these folks for these for
Speaker 5: these fees and back taxes.
Speaker 4: And it's bipartisan, right.
Speaker 3: It is bipartisan.
Speaker 5: But the problem is that something that we often see
Speaker 5: in politics and in passing of laws is there's this
Speaker 5: quid pro quot kind of situation where it's like, yeah, well,
Speaker 5: we'll vote for your thing, or we'll pass this, but
Speaker 5: it has to we have to have this other thing
Speaker 5: attached to it, and oftentimes the other thing that's attached
Speaker 5: to the thing that is bipartisan is not bipartisan, and
Speaker 5: that is the case here. Essentially, the bill was packaged
Speaker 5: with another measure that would essentially make it easier for
Speaker 5: the government to target tax exempt organizations like nonprofits and
Speaker 5: strip them of their tax exempt status if they are
Speaker 5: deemed to be in support of terrorism. And it seems
Speaker 5: to me the way the language of that act or
Speaker 5: that bill is structured, it would be a pretty easy
Speaker 5: way to go after groups that are against whatever your
Speaker 5: political beliefs are. And that is exactly the position that
Speaker 5: the folks who are not in support of this measure
Speaker 5: are taking, and that you know, folks with the ACLU
Speaker 5: are taking, is that this is dangerous because apparently there
Speaker 5: are already laws on the books that allow you to
Speaker 5: go after nonprofits strip them of their tax exempt status
Speaker 5: if they are seen to be connected with any organizations
Speaker 5: that are classified as terrorist groups. This just makes it
Speaker 5: easier and makes it like potentially able to be weaponized,
Speaker 5: you know, in a nasty way. So the whole thing
Speaker 5: is stalled essentially because of the way it was packaged,
Speaker 5: which makes.
Speaker 4: Sense because they have to be incredibly careful about this.
Speaker 4: To recap what you said earlier, there are standing laws
Speaker 4: that say if a non state actor just broadly put,
Speaker 4: has kidnapped someone, you know, that could be a cartel,
Speaker 4: that could be your local terrorist front. Then they're not
Speaker 4: on the hook with the irs. They're a victim of
Speaker 4: a crime. So it may seem strange, dare I say
Speaker 4: legalistic to need an entirely new piece of legislation saying
Speaker 4: what happens when it's a state actor, when it's a Russia,
Speaker 4: you know, when it's an Iran or whatever. But the
Speaker 4: point you make here, you know, just a moment ago,
Speaker 4: is perhaps the most mission critical aspect of this debate.
Speaker 4: It is stalling because there may be certain stakeholders or
Speaker 4: certain people in the conversation who want to twist this
Speaker 4: toward their own ends, which is always a danger in
Speaker 4: the legislative branch.
Speaker 2: I feel like that's a thing that happens when when
Speaker 2: a law comes along, or you know, something like this
Speaker 2: is pretty clear cutting, straightforward, and everybody, especially this bipartisan everything, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is great, and then something else just attaches to
Speaker 2: it because.
Speaker 4: They're not going to vote for the Patriot Act.
Speaker 2: What does it do, right, Well, just tighten these other
Speaker 2: twenty three other measures.
Speaker 4: It's the stop penalties on American hostages act like this
Speaker 4: is purposely branded as something that makes you look like
Speaker 4: a dick if you vote against it.
Speaker 3: Let's quote the article again really quickly.
Speaker 5: The post piece, free speech and pro Palestinian advocacy groups
Speaker 5: oppose that provision, concerned that it would be leveraged to
Speaker 5: silence organizations with the scent views or halt the work
Speaker 5: of humanitarian agencies that operate an area is controlled by
Speaker 5: terrorist entities, especially in the context of the Israel Hamas
Speaker 5: war in Gaza. That opposition probably dooms the House bills
Speaker 5: chances in the Senate. And here is an interesting that
Speaker 5: Chris Kuhns. Senator Chris Kuhns of Delaware Democratic Delaware is
Speaker 5: one of the supporters who was referring to this, saying
Speaker 5: that he hopes that the House will recognize they have
Speaker 5: a chance to just send the bill to us and
Speaker 5: it goes directly to the President's desk because they tried
Speaker 5: to use something called a deeming resolution, which essentially, let's
Speaker 5: not get it the political minutia of it, but allows
Speaker 5: them to do what he just said, It allows it
Speaker 5: to kind of give it a fast path to ratification
Speaker 5: because it just is so uncontroversial a thing like this,
Speaker 5: but because of the way the House packaged it up
Speaker 5: and added that unrelated bill to it, it changed the
Speaker 5: language of the original bill, which rendered that deeming resolution
Speaker 5: null and void essentially, So now they have to kind
Speaker 5: of go back to square one. An interesting perspective from
Speaker 5: the side of the Isle. I guess that is sort
Speaker 5: of holding things up here is worth reading as well.
Speaker 5: The chair of the Ways and Means Committee, Jason T. Smith,
Speaker 5: who's a Republican from Montana, said the following, referring to
Speaker 5: the fact that Hamas are believed to be holding seven
Speaker 5: American hostages in Gaza, four of whom are thoughts to
Speaker 5: be alive when they are released. Even those folks could
Speaker 5: face these tax burdens when they return. So Smith had
Speaker 5: this to say, Our hearts break for the hostages kidnaped
Speaker 5: by Hamas on October seventh, including the Americans still being
Speaker 5: held captive. Russia and other nations continue to wrongfully detain
Speaker 5: other Americans abroad as well. The last thing these Americans
Speaker 5: and their families need are penalties for the irs for
Speaker 5: a situation entirely out of their control. At the same time, sorry,
Speaker 5: it's like a butt, big old butt US based organizations
Speaker 5: that enjoy not for profit status in our tax code,
Speaker 5: while supporting terror or providing financial support to terrorist organizations
Speaker 5: should not be able to benefit from tax exempt status.
Speaker 5: I just don't understand what those two things have to
Speaker 5: do with one another. He's making it. It's a false equivalent. See,
Speaker 5: it feels like it just seems like that that one
Speaker 5: is controversial, and by packaging it with such a non
Speaker 5: controversial build, it seems pretty slippery.
Speaker 3: Guys, I don't know.
Speaker 5: And because of that, it seems like anybody that does
Speaker 5: get released in the situation, they will also be facing
Speaker 5: these tax bills when they come back.
Speaker 2: It's what happens when you build a giant machine that's
Speaker 2: way too big to see the ants that are running
Speaker 2: the machine. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3: It does.
Speaker 2: We're not people anymore, We're just batteries for the taxes.
Speaker 4: Again, the bidality of evil. Right, there's the idea of
Speaker 4: dodging accountability by saying, oh, there's a system, and we
Speaker 4: don't have a form for that. Additionally, no, just to
Speaker 4: game this out, Devil's advocate a bit, we have to
Speaker 4: think through some painful hypotheticals like there's a non zero chance,
Speaker 4: for instance, and I'm sure some members of Congress are
Speaker 4: thinking about this. There's a non zero chance that let's
Speaker 4: say you're a billionaire and you don't want to pay taxes,
Speaker 4: so you just go get kidnapped for legal reasons for
Speaker 4: you know, a year or two. That is cartoonish, but
Speaker 4: it is not outside the realm of possibility.
Speaker 3: But billionaires already don't have to pay taxes.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, significantly less, it would seem because
Speaker 5: the loopholes in the tax code.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what I'm saying, it could be weaponized.
Speaker 5: That's a very not there's not a non zero chance
Speaker 5: that that could be attempted. It would be a way
Speaker 5: of a further loophole. Interesting stuff, pretty interesting view into
Speaker 5: the political process. And how to your point, Matt, heartless,
Speaker 5: it can be where it's like, well I love to
Speaker 5: help you out, but if you don't do this thing
Speaker 5: for me, then I can't do this thing for you.
Speaker 5: And it just seems, unfortunately all too common, and it
Speaker 5: is a it happens on both sides of the aisle.
Speaker 5: You know, this is a pretty non part isn't problem.
Speaker 5: I would argue that there are people on both sides
Speaker 5: of the isle that play these types of cards when
Speaker 5: it comes to getting what they want politically, and it just.
Speaker 3: Sort of sucks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, speaking of sort of sucks, we obviously don't want
Speaker 4: anyone to ever be held hostage. I think that's that's
Speaker 4: how we can all agree. And you brought up some
Speaker 4: fantastic points things that we can chew on collectively here,
Speaker 4: not just about how the legislative sausage gets made, but again,
Speaker 4: like I was pointing out earlier, the work of Hannah
Speaker 4: Errant with the banality of evil, right, because most people
Speaker 4: don't think of themselves as the bad guy. They think
Speaker 4: of themselves as someone working within a system, often with
Speaker 4: a of somehow changing that system for the better. So
Speaker 4: hopefully anybody who has survived the harrowing trauma of a
Speaker 4: hostage situation doesn't automatically get smacked with some whackadoo bill
Speaker 4: by the boffins and the being counters. And we have
Speaker 4: people in the irs who are listening to this show,
Speaker 4: and we know that you know, I guess, without sounding
Speaker 4: too cavalier, we obviously know these are just people trying
Speaker 4: to do their best at their career. There's no one
Speaker 4: waking up one day steepling their hands. Monty Byrne style
Speaker 4: and saying, this guy just survived the DPRK. I can't
Speaker 4: wait to ruin his april, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: No one is doing that. And Noel again, can't thank
Speaker 4: you enough for bringing this story, which was in specific
Speaker 4: new to me. Do you have any last words.
Speaker 5: Where particularly you guys both made excellent points, and I
Speaker 5: think this is something that people should be aware of
Speaker 5: and just and it makes you a little sick considering
Speaker 5: what I just said about how many loopholes there are
Speaker 5: that benefit the super rich, you know, and the folks
Speaker 5: that are put through the most traumatic experience they could
Speaker 5: possibly go through are coming home to this kind of draconian,
Speaker 5: you know, awfulness.
Speaker 3: I just it really makes you a little bit, a
Speaker 3: little bit angry.
Speaker 4: Weirdest thing about the United States, man, it's expensive to
Speaker 4: be poor in many cases. With that, we're going to
Speaker 4: call it an evening. We're out to noctificate, which is
Speaker 4: our fancy dancy word for night walk. In the meantime,
Speaker 4: we cannot wait to hear from you, fellow conspiracy realist.
Speaker 4: Be safe out there. Let us know your thoughts on
Speaker 4: the waffle House index. Let us know your thoughts on
Speaker 4: the ongoing investigations in your neck of the global woods.
Speaker 4: We'll come back with updates in the following weeks. Let
Speaker 4: us know your weird surreal encounters with the irs. And
Speaker 4: if you've a space brick and you're out of potato,
Speaker 4: starch and human blood, what would you use and why
Speaker 4: can't wait to hear from you? Try to be easy
Speaker 4: to find online.
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