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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is Noah.

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Speaker 4: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with

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Speaker 4: our super producer Dylan Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 4: are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want

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Speaker 4: you to know. We are recorded on October ninth. If

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Speaker 4: you're hearing this the evening this show publishes, then welcome

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Speaker 4: to Strange News. And for all our friends in the

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Speaker 4: path of Hurricane Milton, we hope this finds you in

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Speaker 4: good health. We will have an update with several conspiracy

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Speaker 4: theories about these back to back hurricanes Helene and Milton

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Speaker 4: in our listener mail program, publishing later this week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but we're recording this right now at three twenty

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Speaker 2: nine pm ET and watching the radar as the hurricane

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Speaker 2: is slamming all across Florida, and we're just thinking about

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Speaker 2: everybody who's going through it in this moment as we're recording,

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Speaker 2: and you know, fourth dimensionally, as you're hearing this.

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Speaker 5: Episode, just you know, hearing the I believe mayor of

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Speaker 5: Tampa saying, if you don't leave these evacuation zones, you're

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Speaker 5: going to die. I don't think I've ever heard an

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Speaker 5: official say something quite that pointed. It made me scared

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Speaker 5: for the couple of people I know in the area

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Speaker 5: who luckily did evacuate. But I have one friend who

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Speaker 5: made it to higher ground but is technically still in

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Speaker 5: an evacuation zone.

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Speaker 3: And scares the crap out of me. You guys, so thinking.

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Speaker 4: About scares the crap out of them.

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Speaker 5: Dude, I can only imagine, of course, No, I mean,

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Speaker 5: on his behalf. I'm just like thinking about putting myself

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Speaker 5: in that position and thinking like I mean, he was

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Speaker 5: so zen about it in the conversation that I was

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Speaker 5: privy to. But I'm just thinking about you man. You know,

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Speaker 5: you know you are if you're listening. I'm not going

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Speaker 5: to name any names, but good Lord, what a thing

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Speaker 5: to be a part of.

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Speaker 4: And we also, some of us have family members in

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Speaker 4: the path of Milton, many of our fellow conspiracy realists

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Speaker 4: tuning in tonight or in the path of these natural disasters.

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Speaker 4: We wanted to underline and emphasize that at the beginning

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Speaker 4: of this evening Strange News, we have a lot of

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Speaker 4: stuff we're going to explore, including some true crime, including

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Speaker 4: some villainy on behalf of the irs, perhaps not in

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Speaker 4: the way you might imagine, But before we go to

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Speaker 4: our cold open, guys, this made me think again about

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Speaker 4: something that is very familiar to those of us in

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Speaker 4: the Southeastern United States, specifically the waffle House Index. The

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Speaker 4: waffle House Index is an unofficial thing that the US

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Speaker 4: government and the media does treat as though it is official,

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Speaker 4: with some of us in the audience tonight maybe asking

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Speaker 4: what is the waffle House index, and some of us

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Speaker 4: may be asking what is waffle house? Is it a

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Speaker 4: house built of waffles? Very fair question. This is our

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Speaker 4: cold open, and we've returned. We know the waffle house index, right,

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Speaker 4: do you guys remember this one?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, I mean it's just the waffle house.

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Speaker 5: Waffle Houses are twenty four hour diners that are very

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Speaker 5: popular around these parts on the Southeast, and they they

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Speaker 5: never close. And when you start seeing them getting boarded

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Speaker 5: up and them locking the doors, that's a bad sign.

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Speaker 4: M Yeah, I think that's a great insummation because waffle

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Speaker 4: house is a chain. The first one is actually here

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Speaker 4: in the Atlanta metro area.

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Speaker 3: There's a museum attached to it. Apparently.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but you have to call in advance. Okay, But

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Speaker 4: at least these days, it is best known for being

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Speaker 4: a twenty four hour, three hundred and sixty five day

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Speaker 4: a year operation. So when waffle House closes, therefore, it

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Speaker 4: is seen as kind of a canary in the disaster

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Speaker 4: coal mine. And right now old Tampa, Florida locations of

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Speaker 4: waffle House have closed again as we're recording on the

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Speaker 4: evening of October ninth. A lot of this is I

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Speaker 4: don't know. Again, it's unofficial, but I think most people

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Speaker 4: in the southeastern United States do pay attention to the

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Speaker 4: waffle House index. It's got three colors. If everything's green,

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Speaker 4: the waffle house in your area has power minimal absent damage.

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Speaker 4: If things go to yellow, they might be using a generator,

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Speaker 4: and they might have a limited menu because supply chains

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Speaker 4: are broken. And if it's red, like just what happened

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Speaker 4: in Tampa, the restaurant is closed.

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Speaker 3: If it's beige, waffles aren't available. What color is beige unclear,

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Speaker 3: somewhere between white and brown. I'm joking.

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Speaker 5: Obviously about the Waffle situation, but no, I mean gosh,

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Speaker 5: in these situations, really, all you can do is make

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Speaker 5: light occasionally, because it is absurd to gauge a disaster

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Speaker 5: of the magnitude of Milton, also with a ridiculous name

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Speaker 5: like Milton. I'm sorry to anyone out there named Milton.

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Speaker 5: It's just seems like, does it seem like the name

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Speaker 5: of something that has this much catastrophic power? But to

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Speaker 5: gauge it using a chain of waffle restaurants does seem

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Speaker 5: a little absurd. But Ben, You're absolutely right, it is real.

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Speaker 5: It is absolutely accurate. And one of the dudes from

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Speaker 5: Internet today, it's just a show I think we all

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Speaker 5: enjoy on YouTube. Ricky is from the Tampa area and

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Speaker 5: he posted on his Instagram today they closed my hometown

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Speaker 5: waffle House.

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Speaker 3: This is serious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, because they're so well known for disaster preparedness.

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Speaker 2: Waffle House, along with a couple other big chains I

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Speaker 2: think specifically, I know Home Depot and Walmart feel how

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Speaker 2: you will feel about any of these organizations companies, but

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Speaker 2: they are really good at having team members that go

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Speaker 2: back in immediately after some kind of disaster, no matter

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Speaker 2: how big or bad. It is and attempt at least

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Speaker 2: to reopen so that there are materials available like at.

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Speaker 3: A home depot.

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Speaker 2: Right then you a homeowner might need some lumber real quick,

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Speaker 2: or you know, just something a tart, and then you

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Speaker 2: might need some eggs in dang bacon and if you

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Speaker 2: if you can get to a waffle house, you can eat.

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Speaker 4: Or potable water as well, which is often given away

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Speaker 4: for free. So big shout out to FEMA administrator Craig Fugate,

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Speaker 4: who coined the term in May of twenty eleven. We

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Speaker 4: may do a ridiculous history on the waffle house index unclear,

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Speaker 4: maybe it's a wallfalls episode.

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Speaker 5: And really quickly, guys, I just want to I mentioned

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Speaker 5: previously that I've experienced some catastrophic damage to the home

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Speaker 5: that I owned in Augusta, Georgia, and I just wanted

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Speaker 5: to say I had some success with the resource that

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Speaker 5: anyone out there who's dealing with this might not be

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Speaker 5: aware of. I called the Army Corps of Engineers and

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Speaker 5: they referred me to a site called Crisis Cleanup dot

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Speaker 5: org where you give them all your information, your case info,

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Speaker 5: and they put you on lists that go out to

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Speaker 5: numerous different volunteer groups, and they said it was a

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Speaker 5: long shot. They had thousands and thousands of cases. But

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Speaker 5: I did hear back from somebody from a group called

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Speaker 5: Team Rubicon that is actually a team of a nonprofit

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Speaker 5: that is staffed by veterans, Army veterans, and they, you know,

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Speaker 5: are going to send somebody out to my property to

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Speaker 5: help with the cleanup. And they even said, you know

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Speaker 5: it is if you have an insurance, it's going to

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Speaker 5: pay for water mitigation. We will come out and do

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Speaker 5: it and it'll save you something on your policy.

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Speaker 3: They were okay with that.

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Speaker 5: So I mean, that's it's just really neat the level

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Speaker 5: of care they were offering, you know, even for me

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Speaker 5: who does not rely on this place for my you know,

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Speaker 5: main domicile, they were very willing to help. And I

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Speaker 5: thought that was cool. So Chrisis Cleanup dot org check

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Speaker 5: it out if it's not something you're aware of.

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Speaker 4: Right up there with Convoy of Hope, big thanks to

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Speaker 4: GP Scooch forgive them a shout out. Pretty top tier

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Speaker 4: charitable organizations, and I love the shout out you gave there, Noll,

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Speaker 4: because resources do matter, and it can be so difficult

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Speaker 4: to locate those especially at a very difficult time of

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Speaker 4: your life.

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Speaker 5: Well yeah, I mean, and it's you know, even for

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Speaker 5: me with not being someone who's out of home because

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Speaker 5: of this, I just found it overwhelming, like not knowing

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Speaker 5: the next step. I've been texting with you guys about it,

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Speaker 5: just the levels of stress and just knowing what the

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Speaker 5: next right thing to do is. So to have any

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Speaker 5: kind of resource that you maybe weren't aware of of,

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Speaker 5: anyone that can lend a hand, is a huge deal,

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Speaker 5: just knowing. So just you know, thank you been in

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Speaker 5: first and Scooch for the other recommendation. But you know,

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Speaker 5: I've talked to numerous people who are dealing with I

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Speaker 5: had no idea what kind of resources might be available.

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Speaker 4: To them, because luckily, for now, this sort of emergency

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Speaker 4: and disaster is not normalized larger questions about the future.

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Speaker 4: Speaking of questions, I have a question for you guys

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Speaker 4: and all of us listening along at home. Would you

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Speaker 4: prefer to hear about espionage or space bricks? Space bricks?

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Speaker 3: Well, jeez, Ben, when you put it that way, how

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Speaker 3: about space bricks to start?

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, all right, tilted the scale just a bit,

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Speaker 4: just the gilded the lily, right, there we go. The

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Speaker 4: question that I'm sure we are all asking at numerous

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Speaker 4: times in our lives is when the age of space

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Speaker 4: exploration reaches its apex, how are we going to build structures?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 4: For a lot of fellow Nosferatu in the crowd, the

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Speaker 4: answer is, of course, human blood.

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Speaker 3: Right, got one for sure?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Okay, all right, I like that face. So there

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Speaker 4: is a study that answered a question seriously, no one

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Speaker 4: has asked. And this study out of Manchester, published in

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Speaker 4: Open Engineering recently concluded that potatoes are better than human

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Speaker 4: blood for making space bricks.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations, humanity, we figured it out.

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Speaker 3: This is a question. Who asked for this exactly?

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Speaker 2: Idaho potatoes and the.

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Speaker 5: Potato they're trying to extend it out into the cosmos.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, actually it was the vampires were like, yes, we

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Speaker 2: need the bloods.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that's why potatoes greater than blood when it comes

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Speaker 5: to space breaks. Is that? Okay? I'm just wondering where

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Speaker 5: this equivalency came from. Where Where did the need to

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Speaker 5: compare these two materials come from?

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Speaker 4: Well, you're getting situations. The portmanteau for it is star

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Speaker 4: creet like concrete, but you know stars because of space.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that's a long walk, but.

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Speaker 2: Ben was the idea of it. All the humans that

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Speaker 2: are making these trips are gonna have blood, so we'll

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Speaker 2: just take some of that and make bricks and urine.

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Speaker 4: They will be peeing the entire time.

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Speaker 2: What about of the poo poo, precious, precious, that's the

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Speaker 2: night soil, right, we talked about that.

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Speaker 4: That's our gunk we mentioned earlier. So shout out to

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Speaker 4: Alied Roberts, A L. E. Ed Roberts, the lead researcher

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Speaker 4: for this thing called the star Crete project, and they're

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Speaker 4: actually they're they're answering these questions that might sound silly

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Speaker 4: in a popsy headline, but they do. I don't know,

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Speaker 4: it's such it's such a weird after the fact kind

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Speaker 4: of disclosure, like when we're talking about psychic power countermeasures

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Speaker 4: when Stargate not star Crete, when Stargate was declassified and

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Speaker 4: people said, yeah, we we did look into that. It

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Speaker 4: was cool, but we're not doing it anymore. You can

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Speaker 4: get a little bit of fomo as a taxpayer or

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Speaker 4: as an interested member of civilization. And so the idea,

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Speaker 4: like the the idea of coming out with a study

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Speaker 4: that says potato starch is better than human blood for

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Speaker 4: making space bricks. There are at least three to four

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Speaker 4: questions pulled it in to the least statement.

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Speaker 5: I think we addressed a couple of them. But why

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Speaker 5: don't we Let's just knock them off one at a time.

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Speaker 2: I gotta say, but it doesn't help when space dot

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Speaker 2: Com at the end of their article says Comma scientists say, yes,

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Speaker 2: I feel like that phrase after anything makes you go

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Speaker 2: oh the scientists said it, Oh okay.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's also like adding ellipses. Officially the two.

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Speaker 2: Things right according to officials.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The best statement from Roberts that tells us about this.

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Speaker 4: This is a series of studies. Robert says, quote, astronauts

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Speaker 4: probably don't want to be living in houses made from

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Speaker 4: scabs and your We've all been there, you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean.

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Speaker 3: Debatable.

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Speaker 4: There's like one astronaut who's super into it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds great. Do you think he's the worst astronaut?

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Speaker 3: Is that come along with Neil?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Neil not Armstrong? Different Neil?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that guy. Guy's a monster. He's at Applebee's right now.

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Speaker 2: Mmmm.

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Speaker 3: The leg wek and what they said.

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Speaker 4: Is uh, you know, as gross as it may sound,

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Speaker 4: they are looking with real science, right, with genuine methodology

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Speaker 4: and rigor. And in their initial study they explored the

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Speaker 4: possibility of blood and urine and other human fluids as

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Speaker 4: binding agents to create something like concrete. Because to your

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Speaker 4: earlier point there, these should be considered renewable resources. They're

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Speaker 4: one of the few things that will always be consistently

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Speaker 4: produced by humans living in space and other you know,

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Speaker 4: terrestrial organisms. So they did this second study and they

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Speaker 4: looked into potato flakes, and they found that not only

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Speaker 4: are potato flakes and alternative source of star creet, but

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Speaker 4: they are indeed less ghoulish and perhaps more efficient. The

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Speaker 4: specific salt compound they're using as something called magnesium chloride.

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Speaker 4: Without getting into the chemical weeds, the main wind for

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Speaker 4: magnesium chloride is that you can get it from the

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Speaker 4: dirt on Mars. So looks like at this point either

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Speaker 4: or preferable, but like, if any of it works, these

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Speaker 4: are pretty great because, as we talk about so often,

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Speaker 4: you can't actually move concrete through space, not in a

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Speaker 4: reasonable way.

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Speaker 3: You know, yeah, you have to make it there.

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Speaker 5: I mean whatever whatever it's made at, it would have

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Speaker 5: to be manufactured on site with like movable materials. I

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Speaker 5: mean that's true of construction sites too, like they mix

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Speaker 5: the stuff like there, it would be prohibitively. I mean,

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Speaker 5: there are certain I guess concrete structures you might see

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Speaker 5: on the back of a flatbed, but it's pretty rare.

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Speaker 3: Usually you have to pour that stuff on the construction site.

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Speaker 2: I'm imagining you have to use some kind of water

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Speaker 2: as well with the mixture, because you can't just make

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Speaker 2: a powdered thing. You know, you make a powder thing,

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Speaker 2: you add water to it. That's one of the first

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Speaker 2: ways you get to being able to even form a brick,

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Speaker 2: right and then dry the thing out. Have they thought

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Speaker 2: about just spinning up all the waste together instead of

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Speaker 2: separating the blood or the urine or any of the

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Speaker 2: other stuff.

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Speaker 3: Like suicide, like well, you know when you mix all

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Speaker 3: the sodas well.

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Speaker 2: I'm just imagining all of the waste products that the

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Speaker 2: astronauts produce as one thing goes into one chamber, and

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Speaker 2: that chamber then siphon's directly into wherever they're brick building.

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Speaker 4: Mm hmmm, yeah, yeah, there literal beating your their literal

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Speaker 4: brickjit house.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you just feed the astronauts mostly potato flakes,

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Speaker 2: and then there are it's already in there. It's just

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Speaker 2: broken down a little.

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Speaker 4: And the weirdest thing is if you make this star

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Speaker 4: creak with potato starch, that magnesium chloride, and what we

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Speaker 4: believe to be lunar or martian dirt, it is twice

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Speaker 4: as strong as the known concrete recipe we have on

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Speaker 4: the planet today. If you want to learn more about it,

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Speaker 4: check out that excellent article referenced earlier from space dot

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Speaker 4: com by the journalist Josh Dinner, which is just an

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Speaker 4: awesome name.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty great.

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Speaker 4: It's pretty great, you know, if you could choose a name,

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Speaker 4: that's a good choice. And uh, I don't know, like

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Speaker 4: it seems as though it's a silly question, but it

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Speaker 4: does I think like a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 4: hypothetical research or theoretical research for space exploration. It tells

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Speaker 4: us even more about life on the ground here, right,

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Speaker 4: the you know, one of the big questions vampire stuff

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Speaker 4: aside is the idea of whether or not we should

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Speaker 4: use food sources as means of construction, and if so,

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Speaker 4: to what degree kind of like water.

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Speaker 5: Power, right, I mean, it's interesting in like a futurist

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Speaker 5: kind of conversation too, because it certainly does make you

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Speaker 5: think about, like we talked about this, I believe even

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Speaker 5: is the idea of building materials here on Earth and

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Speaker 5: like things that are more sustainable and what like. I

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Speaker 5: believe there was a story we did about like insect

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Speaker 5: kitan that was used to generate some sort of futuristic

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Speaker 5: kind of building material. I mean, I'm just I don't know.

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Speaker 5: It just got me thinking about that kind of stuff

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Speaker 5: as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and also, uh, to that point in the world

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Speaker 4: of folklore and mythology, it reminds me a bit of

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Speaker 4: ild Nordic myths about a ship made of fingernails to

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Speaker 4: survive the end of the world.

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Speaker 2: Oh God, yeah, man, No, uh, I just got a

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Speaker 2: picture now of Okay, if you let's say you're on

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Speaker 2: the lunar surface, you're building these bricks, right, Let's say

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Speaker 2: in this case, we're building the slightly less strong but

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Speaker 2: more strong than bricks on Earth, bricks with blood and urine.

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Speaker 2: We're making those, right, Yeah, And we're constructing stuff on

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Speaker 2: the moon. Are we creating some kind of giant artificial

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Speaker 2: dome that all of those bricked buildings exist in where

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Speaker 2: we can take off our helmets and smell the bricks

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Speaker 2: or are we walking around in helmets in these things?

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Speaker 2: Because how do you make the artificial atmosphere in a

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Speaker 2: brick made building?

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Speaker 4: Ah, the smell that Matt like, just yeah, I mean, you're.

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Speaker 2: Gonna pump enough oxygen and nitrogen and carbon dioxide into

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Speaker 2: that brick building that you made out of, you know,

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Speaker 2: even if it's potato flake bricks.

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Speaker 4: Do you have to figure out you have to figure

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Speaker 4: out a scrubbing method for the air. Also classic human

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Speaker 4: for space exploration to work out. And every off Earth

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Speaker 4: base smells vaguely of old French fries or piss, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean. Now that's there. These are all

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Speaker 4: free Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, and uh and we're gonna

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Speaker 4: we're gonna move on before we get to you an

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Speaker 4: ad break. We do want you to know that the

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Speaker 4: government of China has been confirmed to hack major US

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Speaker 4: telecom firms. This confirmed for firms. We'll let it ride.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So what is it that you say, no, really,

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Speaker 5: no way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And we also know that, in addition to these accusations,

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Speaker 4: the government of China has of course predictably ramped up

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Speaker 4: information campaigns as we go into the US election doesn't

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Speaker 4: matter what your ideology is. They want the chaos.

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Speaker 5: Well, when these types of allegations surface, does the government

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Speaker 5: of China just say, how dare you, sir, accuse us

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Speaker 5: of such malfeasance?

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Speaker 3: We would never.

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Speaker 4: Typically, historically the response has been, we didn't actually tell

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Speaker 4: anyone to do this. You know, the fifty cent army

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Speaker 4: which we mentioned earlier. It's just a bunch of private

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Speaker 4: citizens who happen to be lockstep in march with party goals.

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Speaker 3: Some plausible deniability is sort of what they're leading. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, And if you want to learn more about the

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Speaker 4: AI weaponization, which is going to be a thing going forward,

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Speaker 4: check out the article in Fortune dot com by Diddy

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Speaker 4: Tang David Klepper And, of course, with some love from

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Speaker 4: the Associated Press, shout out to the seventy two year

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Speaker 4: old man who has been sentenced to prison in Rush

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Speaker 4: is a US national. He is allegedly, or conclusively, according

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Speaker 4: to the Russian government, a mercenary. Stephen James Hubbard sentenced

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Speaker 4: to six years and ten months in prison as a

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Speaker 4: seventy two year old man on accusations of being a

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Speaker 4: mercenary for Ukraine. And we don't know how many merks

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Speaker 4: are in the crowd tonight. We don't know how many

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Speaker 4: you know, you have personally met in your life, but

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Speaker 4: I think it's safe to say, you guys, most of

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Speaker 4: them are not seventy two years old.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean they will be, or they became seventy

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Speaker 2: two at some point.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but you know, probably after their careers, you know

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Speaker 4: what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Look, if somebody's been a mercenary, even at seventy two,

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Speaker 2: you're not going to mess with that seventy two year

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Speaker 2: old ex mercenary. No, it's what he's saying, there's.

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Speaker 4: A respect aside.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's probably damage to be done there if it

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Speaker 2: was either necessary or intended.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like what they lose in vinegar, they more

390
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Speaker 4: than make up for inexperience and knowledge with that. If

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Speaker 4: you happen to have some opinions we'll say, or hypothetical

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Speaker 4: anecdotes about the world of merks and third party operators,

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Speaker 4: we'd love to hear from you, conspiracydiheartradio dot com. We're

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Speaker 4: going to take a pause for a word from our sponsors,

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Speaker 4: and we will return with more strange news.

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Speaker 2: And we're back, guys. I have a tale for us

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Speaker 2: today from our own backyard from the Atlanta Greater Metropolitan Area,

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Speaker 2: and it is a strange one. It's a tragic story.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty sad, it's very confusing, and that's why we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about it. This is a quick warning

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00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 2: ahead here. You are going to hear audio in this

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Speaker 2: segment of some of the final moments of a person's life.

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Speaker 2: But it is not the moments when that person's life ended.

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00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: It is just the run up to an incident where

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Speaker 2: shooting occurred. So just be aware of that that's going

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Speaker 2: to happen in this segment. Okay, before we even get

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Speaker 2: into the story, you guys, let's talk about something called

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Speaker 2: Crime Is Toast. Have you ever heard of this before? Nope, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I had never heard of it either. This is an

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Speaker 2: annual awards ceremony. It's an awards breakfast that is put

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Speaker 2: on by the Atlanta Police Foundation for the Atlanta Police Department.

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Speaker 2: This year, the Crime Is Toast Awards occurred on September

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Speaker 2: twenty fourth, so you know what, a couple of weeks

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Speaker 2: ago from the day we're recording this episode, and I'm

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Speaker 2: just going to give you a couple of pieces of

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Speaker 2: information from that awards ceremony. And this is coming from

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Speaker 2: the Atlanta Journal Constitution. You can read about it search

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Speaker 2: for officers recized for response to Atlanta food court shooting,

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Speaker 2: Comma bus hijacking. Atlanta Mayor Andre Dickens was there speaking,

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Speaker 2: you know, to this audience of police officers and supporters

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Speaker 2: of the APD, praising them for reducing homicides by twenty

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Speaker 2: one percent over the course of the year. And here's

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Speaker 2: a quick quote from Mayor Andre Dickens, and he's speaking

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Speaker 2: about the APD together they have fostered a coordinated effort

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Speaker 2: to fight crime, make our neighborhood safer, and provide opportunities

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Speaker 2: for our youth. Many of you here today represent that

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Speaker 2: united effort. We know that the job of making Atlanta

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Speaker 2: safer is never finished. This is important because this is

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Speaker 2: just showing this is the City of Atlanta, at least

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Speaker 2: the leadership of the City of Atlanta putting on you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know a PEP rally. I suppose in a

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Speaker 2: way for the police officers that protect the city or

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Speaker 2: are paid to serve and protect the city. There are

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Speaker 2: several words of note that were given out that are

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Speaker 2: mentioned in this a JC article that's the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

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Speaker 2: A police officer named Lamar Jacobs received the Medal of

437
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 2: Honor award, which is the highest honor the APD can bestow,

438
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: and that was for his response to the Midtown food

439
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: court shooting. Do you guys remember hearing about that That

440
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 2: happened on June eleventh. This is an area where Dragon

441
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 2: Cohn occurs every year. Most people who don't live in

442
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 2: Atlanta would know it as that area. It was a

443
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 2: big deal, so he received the Medal of Honor. Sergeant

444
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: Terrence Epps was recognized as Supervisor of the Year for

445
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,239
Speaker 2: responding to a bus hijacking. Officers Francis Raymondville Watson, and

446
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: Ruben Miranda were named Officers of the Year, and another man,

447
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: investigator Aubrey Horton, was named Investigator of the Year. On

448
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: September twenty fourth of this year. As we're recording this episode, Okay,

449
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 2: remember that name, Aubrey Horton. Here we go. Let's move

450
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: on to what has occurred in what this story is

451
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 2: actually about. According to eleven Alive News, who wrote an

452
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 2: article titled APD investigator shot after breaking into Douglas County home,

453
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 2: authorities say, see that thing we mentioned before, The authorities.

454
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: Said it like the scientist didn't say exactly.

455
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to read directly from this article. Thank you

456
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 2: for writing it. Eleven alive. An Atlanta Police Department officer

457
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: died after being shot by a homeowner on the morning

458
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 2: of Friday, October fourth, So from September twenty fourth to

459
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 2: October fourth, Okay, that's not many days at all. The

460
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 2: officer was identified as Investigator Aubrey Horton, the very same

461
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: one we just spoke about, who received Investigator of the

462
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: Year by the APD. The Douglas County Sheriff's Office and

463
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 2: deputies were called to a home. I'll give you the

464
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 2: exact thing, so you can look it up if you'd like,

465
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: to a home on orkneyrkn e Y Way, near East

466
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 2: Carroll Road in the Saint Andrews Country Club neighborhood in Winston, Georgia.

467
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 2: It was around five am when this occurred and there

468
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 2: was a shooting, so the Sheriff's office were called almost

469
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,959
Speaker 2: immediately after five am that morning. Investigator said Horton appeared

470
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 2: to be either experiencing a mental health episode or under

471
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: the influence of narcotics when he tried to break into

472
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 2: a home in that neighborhood and Horton, according to tax records,

473
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: lives in the same neighborhood. But at some point in

474
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 2: whatever occurred, investigator Horton made his way into the home,

475
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: was confronted by the homeowner and was shot, and he

476
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 2: shot fatally and killed while inside the home that he

477
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: broke into. So, first of all, this is very strange

478
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: that somebody who joined the police force in twenty fifteen

479
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 2: has been doing I guess good enough work to be recognized,

480
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 2: you know, as one out of all of the police

481
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: officers in the Atlanta Police Department as Investigator of the Year.

482
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: To go through something whatever it was, to then try

483
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: to break into some home and then get shot and killed,

484
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 2: very very weird. Do you guys have any thoughts initially

485
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: just at all about this. I know we haven't really

486
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 2: talked about anything that we can even discuss yet. It's

487
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: it's just weird.

488
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, for contexts. As we mentioned age of death, again,

489
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 4: the investigator was only in their early thirties in thirty two,

490
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 4: so that's a very that's a very high career trajectory

491
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 4: to get. As you mentioned, the highest possible award that

492
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 4: can be bestowed the investigation of course, as you mentioned,

493
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 4: Matt is ongoing. However, Georgia does have self defense laws,

494
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 4: so even if you know, it reminds me a bit

495
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 4: of the Leonard Peltier case, where you know, a big

496
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 4: a big part of the the shootout in which those

497
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 4: two FBI agents were murdered, A big part of the

498
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 4: questions the jury held where did the people know that

499
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 4: they were firing on FBI agents? To this point, it

500
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 4: seems that if the guy lives just a half mile

501
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 4: away from where the incident occurs, there's a very high

502
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 4: likelihood that these folks may have been familiar with each other.

503
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 4: Is that fair to conjecture?

504
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, that's something you'd think, especially if because it

505
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 2: is a country club kind of thing, it's likely that

506
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: people at least that are aware of each other. He

507
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 2: didn't live far away at all, in the same neighborhood. However,

508
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: investigators there have made it very clear that they did

509
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: not know each other at least, and this is crucial

510
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: to me at least as we continue forward, the homeowner,

511
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: the man that lived there, who fired the fatal shot,

512
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: who attempted to answer the door when this person came

513
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: up to the door, and then the person broke in

514
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: and then shot whoever this person was. He did not

515
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: know who Officer Aubrey was.

516
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 4: And that's why I was asking, because I think that's

517
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 4: one of the first questions those of us listening along

518
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 4: at home will ask.

519
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 2: Yes, But there are multiple people who live at the

520
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: house too, so it's unknown if just the homeowner was

521
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: unaware of this person. So that is an answer that

522
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: I kind of still have, but i'm you know, if

523
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 2: I was an investigator, I'd be asking questions about that.

524
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 5: And one thing that came up in the Peltier story too,

525
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 5: is like, does the fact that a police are entering

526
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 5: your home automatically make that a legitimate act?

527
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 4: You know?

528
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 5: Or or the fact that police or federal agents or

529
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 5: whatever are rating your property or coming for you in

530
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 5: some form or fashion. If it's not legitimate, do you

531
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 5: have the right to defend yourself?

532
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 4: Okay, yes, in a self defense situation in states that

533
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 4: have that kind of legislation, you do have the right,

534
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 4: depending on the first is it a uniformed member of

535
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 4: El EO or is it some guy who is not

536
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 4: in uniform does not have a warrant. We have to

537
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 4: remember history is again closer than it looks in the

538
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 4: rear view mirror. It is not too long ago that

539
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 4: people employed by the Atlanta Police Department conducted an erroneous

540
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 4: kick door at the wrong address and they killed an

541
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 4: elderly woman, absolutely a grandmother.

542
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 2: Well, that's something that has occurred across this country, right

543
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: where the wrong door gets kicked in, wrong person gets attacked.

544
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 2: But I have to go back to exactly what you're saying.

545
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: If it is a police officer coming into your house,

546
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: that's one thing this person. According to the AJAC. You

547
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: can look this up. It is titled in more details

548
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: and fatal shooting of APD investigator accused of breaking into home.

549
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: It's published on October seventh. This is a quote. When

550
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: Sheriff's Office investigators arrived at the scene, they were initially

551
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: unable to identify Horton because he didn't have ID, and

552
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 2: he was not wearing shoes and not wearing a shirt.

553
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 5: And he was not well. This man was in a

554
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 5: fugue state of some kind or under the inf I mean,

555
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 5: something was going on.

556
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: What the hell something was wrong, which leads us guys

557
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 2: to the video footage, which is then released. There were

558
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: security cameras set up by the homeowner because his house

559
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 2: had been burgled or an attempted burglary earlier, so he

560
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: set up a bunch of ring cameras on his house.

561
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 2: So the authorities released this video on Facebook, which was

562
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: then picked up by everybody from you know, Fox five

563
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: Atlanta to eleven Alive to WSB and guys. Since this

564
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: is an audio only medium, I figured we would listen

565
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: to the audio and imagine being in the homeowner's shoes

566
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: at least for a moment, and hearing this at five

567
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: am in the morning, immediately after your spouse has left

568
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: for work, like we're talking almost immediately after your spouse

569
00:32:47,720 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: leaves for work. Then you hear this, yes, oh no,

570
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: tell me recording. Now we should note this is happening

571
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: on the front doorstep.

572
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 5: This is terrifying, isn't terrify ying that's someone having a

573
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 5: psychotic episode or under the influence of serious drugs.

574
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: Yes, you can discern that something is very, very very

575
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 2: wrong and what you cannot hear very well in this audio,

576
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: but you can. I've enhanced it a little bit so

577
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 2: we could hear the background in just a moment, but

578
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: you can hear the homeowner speaking through the door and

579
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: asking for his spouse's name, which I guess we can

580
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: say because this video has been released. Her name is Pam,

581
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: and he's calling out for Pam, like wondering if Pam

582
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: is okay, because she literally just left. There's a moment

583
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: we maybe we don't have to. I don't know. Is

584
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 2: this two morbid guys? To listen to this?

585
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 3: Oh? I mean it's fascinating and terrifying.

586
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 5: Yes, it's morbid, Matt, but I think it's an important

587
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 5: part of the story.

588
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, we're going to continue on and listen to

589
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 2: what occurs because you can hear mister Horton's kind of

590
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: just sitting there on the porch for a little bit

591
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 2: and at some point he exclaims, which kind of again

592
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: frightened the homeowner. And right after this audio ends is

593
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: when there's some sort of altercation at the door where

594
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: the homeowner opens the door just slightly, you know, like

595
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: barely a jar, and Horton pushes his way in, and

596
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: that's when the shooting occurs. So let's just continue a

597
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: little bit further here. That's the homeowner.

598
00:34:53,239 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, who are you? Wow? What is going on with

599
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 3: this guy?

600
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 4: I love you?

601
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: No, k.

602
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 2: That's him. Falling backwards. Sounds like he says, I miss

603
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 2: happiness or something like that.

604
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 3: I love you, just kill me. Yeah, So.

605
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 2: I don't know.

606
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:33,959
Speaker 3: Chilling, dude.

607
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,479
Speaker 2: I just it is chilling. And to me, I'm trying

608
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: to put my mind in everybody's position in this, especially

609
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: the homeowner's position, or in the responding officer's position. Just

610
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: in any and even in mister Horton's position, I can't

611
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: imagine what you would have to be going through to

612
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: to be saying those things and doing those things. But

613
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: in the homeowner's position, just this is terrifying and you

614
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: want to find out what's going on. You live in

615
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 2: a fairly uh what would be I do quotation marks

616
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 2: safe area, so you're probably not expecting anything like this,

617
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: although he did his house was broken into, right, That's

618
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 2: why he put the cameras up, So he's also primed

619
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 2: for another break in of some sort, because there's something

620
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: that that does to you mentally when you put a

621
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: bunch of security cameras up in your house and other

622
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 2: you know, things to protect your home, you think about

623
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 2: it more often a little bit at least. I don't

624
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: know we can continue on, guys. I just, uh, it

625
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 2: really weirded me out this whole thing. Hearing all that stuff.

626
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 2: It sounds like he's calling out to a specific person

627
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: that maybe he thinks is in this house.

628
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 3: But didn't you say he said the spouse's name?

629
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 2: The husband, the homeowner calls out for his spouse.

630
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 3: Misunderstood, got it to my ears.

631
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: It sounds like Horton says, I miss happiness and then

632
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: states a name or something or another word after that

633
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 2: that I can't discern.

634
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 4: And if it's, if it's, we'll say this, folks. We

635
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 4: are very well aware. Like when you see the video,

636
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 4: Matt did a great job bringing out like so we

637
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 4: can hear more clearly the statements there from someone who's,

638
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 4: as we say, clearly disturbed. One thing that's important is

639
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 4: we have to remember it can be dangerously tempting to

640
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 4: read tea leaves from video or audio. There is, I assume,

641
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 4: and let me know if this is incorrect. There is

642
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 4: an active investigation, perhaps into the circumstances surrounding these tragic events,

643
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 4: like as far as what led this guy to this

644
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 4: situation just days after the awards ceremony.

645
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely yes, it's a tragic situation. But there's also

646
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 2: the thin blue line thing going on where there is

647
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: an officer who knows what fully is going to come

648
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 2: out about it because he is the one who ended

649
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: up getting hurt. He did not make anybody else a victim,

650
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 2: and the homeowner is not being charged. Well, I guess

651
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: the victim is the homeowner because it was a break.

652
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 4: In, right, right, but again self defense, Yeah, exactly.

653
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 2: So homeowners not being charged. The authorities are saying there

654
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: are a bunch of conspiracy theories basically being generated about

655
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 2: this right now, mostly having to do with mister Horton

656
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 2: knowing the homeowner or somebody else that he was trying

657
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: to contact in that moment. Anyway, weird stuff. You can

658
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: look more into this. It just felt strange enough that

659
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 2: we should mention it. Let's move on and hear a

660
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: word from our sponsor, and we'll be right back with

661
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 2: more strange news.

662
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 5: And we're back with one more piece of strange news.

663
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 3: Guys.

664
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 5: You know the thing they say that they and stuff

665
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 5: they don't want you to know maybe, is that there

666
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 5: are two things that are certain in this life.

667
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 3: You know those aren't death and taxes.

668
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've also heard death taxes in trouble. Shout out

669
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 4: the black thought.

670
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,959
Speaker 5: Yeah, there you go, not necessarily on that bingo card.

671
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 5: Of the prerequisites for existence to become a hostage of

672
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 5: a foreign entity, be it a terrorist group or a

673
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 5: foreign country. We know this happens. US citizens traveling abroad

674
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 5: can end up on the wrong side of the law,

675
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 5: or are used as bargaining chips, or they can be

676
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 5: used in order to leverage, you know, power against the

677
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 5: US government, et cetera. And we talked about extradition and

678
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 5: hostage exchanges and all of that. We know that sometimes

679
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 5: US citizens traveling abroad can be scooped up in order

680
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 5: to leverage in exchange of a political prisoner, you know,

681
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 5: the the US is holding, right Ben shut.

682
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that kind of stuff.

683
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 5: So we know this is something that happens oftentimes. You know,

684
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 5: people are held obviously against their will for a long time.

685
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 5: You know, it can be years, and hopefully, through the

686
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 5: through diplomacy, they are returned to the United States in

687
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 5: order to you know, return to their normal lives and

688
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 5: and be with their families and you know, go back

689
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 5: to their jobs and all of that. And you would

690
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 5: think that the last thing that anyone in that situation

691
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 5: would need to worry about would be answering the question

692
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 5: of did I pay my taxes? Well, the IRS seems

693
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 5: to think that that's exactly what they should be asking themselves.

694
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 5: And I told a friend of mine when I happened

695
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 5: upon this story, is this not the most IRS thing

696
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 5: you've ever heard? Just like the idea like no one

697
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 5: is safe, even apparently political prisoners.

698
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 4: It's like that thing where if you sell drugs, the

699
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 4: I R. S isn't mad at you, but they want

700
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 4: you to report your income.

701
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 3: That's right.

702
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, we even talked about I believe we had an interview.

703
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, I'm forgetting his name now. I think

704
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 5: it was we interviewed this that guy who was like

705
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 5: buddies with Dick Gregory and so he was like a

706
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 5: street performer in Venice Beach and he was like.

707
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: A poet and then a really interesting dude.

708
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 5: And he gosh, I'm so sorry that I'm forgetting his name,

709
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 5: but we had him on the show and he was

710
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 5: talking about how his street performances in Venice became so

711
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 5: lucrative for him and so popular that they started sending

712
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 5: undercover IRS agents to keep tabs on him and see

713
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 5: how much income he was generating so they could then

714
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 5: send him a bill.

715
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 3: So this is real.

716
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 5: This is the kind of stuff that the government does

717
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 5: when it comes to getting paid.

718
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 3: They are all up in your business.

719
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: No, you're saying, this is not some kind of like

720
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 2: accidental oversight.

721
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 3: This is like, this is the law of the land.

722
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 3: O lord.

723
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 4: And this was the person interviewed referenced earlier was Michael Collier.

724
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we'll get into some more specifics here too.

725
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 5: I wanted to reference a fabulous extended peace in the

726
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 5: Economic policy section of the Washington Post written.

727
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 3: By Jacob Bogage or Bogage and Julie Zosmer.

728
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 5: Wile US hostages still owe taxes, Congress might not help.

729
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 5: So the implication here in the headline says it all

730
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 5: is that this would take an Act of Congress to

731
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 5: do something about because representatives from the IRS have said, yeah,

732
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 5: I mean sure, this seems a little rough, but it

733
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 5: is not within our legal rights to waive these fees,

734
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 5: because we are talking about back taxes, the taxes themselves,

735
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 5: but also late fees and interest fees, interest payments, you know,

736
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 5: for the time spent away presumably under lock and key,

737
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 5: with zero access to any kind of ability to pay

738
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 5: your taxes.

739
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 4: And this is not punitive. Like shout out to Hattah

740
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 4: Errant and the concept of the banality of evil right

741
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 4: and cold systems. This feels like at least well you

742
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 4: tell me no. It feels as though this is one

743
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 4: of those things where you might write to the IRS

744
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 4: and say, hey, bt dubs, I barely survive being held

745
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 4: hostage and I didn't really have income that year, and

746
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 4: they might they might say, well, hey, man.

747
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 3: We'll cut you a check. You know, Hey, here's what.

748
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 4: You're saying, Well, we've got the system and we don't

749
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 4: really have Like the IRS is very form oriented, right Well,

750
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 4: I don't think there's a ten to forty z's right

751
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 4: or whatever for a.

752
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 3: Hostage situation, right Ben.

753
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 5: And you know, and I don't know that we're going

754
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 5: to get into some some specifics of some individuals that

755
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 5: were in this situation, so I don't know the specifics

756
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 5: of their finances. But one would also imagine that that

757
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 5: amount of time spent away would be time where you

758
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 5: weren't earning income, and therefore you would think there would

759
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 5: be something, some arrangement that could be made.

760
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,280
Speaker 3: This would not be a punitive situation. But apparently the IRS.

761
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 5: There is a according to this article in the Post.

762
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 5: The IBS is gonna quot it because I think it's

763
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 5: very well said here. The IRS has a long standing

764
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 5: practice of forgiveness for people who are held hostage by

765
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 5: non state organizations, including hamas and groups like the Islamic

766
00:43:58,640 --> 00:43:59,760
Speaker 5: State or BOCO.

767
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 3: So that's that's on the books, or again, I'm not

768
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: sure exactly how it's codified.

769
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 5: This was from a Westerley Washington Post columnist, Jason Rezion,

770
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 5: who actually was himself a hostage. He was returned to

771
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 5: the United States in twenty sixteen after five hundred and

772
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 5: forty four days in Iranian captivity, and awaiting him upon

773
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 5: his return was a six thousand dollars tax bill.

774
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 4: Great, cool, tight, good job. Yeah, that's so messed up.

775
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 3: The way he puts it is this.

776
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 5: When I returned home from Iran in twenty sixteen after

777
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 5: being imprisoned for nearly a year and a half, I

778
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 5: found that the IRS had charged me with thousands of

779
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 5: dollars in penalties for not filing my taxes on time.

780
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 5: The usual penalties had compounded. I was sleeping less than

781
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 5: three hours a night, repeatedly waking from nightmares that I

782
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 5: was back in prison. During the day. I was distracted

783
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 5: and having trouble concentrating, so I neglected to sit down

784
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 5: and address the problem.

785
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: What a diplomatic way of like saying, f you the irs.

786
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 5: I had other things going on, you know, like PTSD,

787
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 5: like night terrors, Like I mean, it's the kind of

788
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 5: thing you think about when when you hear about often

789
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 5: the way returning veterans can be treated, you know, like

790
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,959
Speaker 5: you've done this service for your country, You've given your life,

791
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 5: you've put your life on the line, and then you

792
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 5: come back and you are treated like a second class citizen.

793
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 4: And yeah, we should say, real quick, it might sound

794
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 4: odd to hear this guy Jason's name and wonder why

795
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 4: he was held for almost two years by Iran. To

796
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 4: be very clear, folks, especially if you have Iranian heritage

797
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 4: and you are American, the Iranian government considers you Iranian

798
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 4: and has very few qualms about detaining you.

799
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 3: Right.

800
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and he was working for the Washington Post, right,

801
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: he was, correct, Greg Hetty, He was bureau chief, so

802
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 2: he was one of the top guys.

803
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 3: Well, there's another wrinkle in this story, guys.

804
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 5: I mentioned the whole idea of Congress of taking an

805
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 5: Act of Congress to get this on the books. Well,

806
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 5: this is being attempted. There are those in the legislature

807
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 5: who are spearheading a bill that would deal with this

808
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 5: unfortunate situation.

809
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 3: This unfortunate, I would argue, pretty egregious oversight.

810
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 5: There are members of Congress who are aligning in order

811
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 5: to change the law so that Americans who are held

812
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 5: wrongfully or detained by these terrorist organizations or foreign governments.

813
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 5: Let's add that because again we know that the terrorist

814
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 5: organization thing is already somewhat on the books, don't know

815
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 5: exactly what the language around that is.

816
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 3: Seems like it.

817
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 5: Could also offer some wiggle room to prevent you know,

818
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 5: the irs from going after these folks for these for

819
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 5: these fees and back taxes.

820
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 4: And it's bipartisan, right.

821
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:45,919
Speaker 3: It is bipartisan.

822
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 5: But the problem is that something that we often see

823
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 5: in politics and in passing of laws is there's this

824
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 5: quid pro quot kind of situation where it's like, yeah, well,

825
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 5: we'll vote for your thing, or we'll pass this, but

826
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 5: it has to we have to have this other thing

827
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 5: attached to it, and oftentimes the other thing that's attached

828
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 5: to the thing that is bipartisan is not bipartisan, and

829
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 5: that is the case here. Essentially, the bill was packaged

830
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 5: with another measure that would essentially make it easier for

831
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 5: the government to target tax exempt organizations like nonprofits and

832
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 5: strip them of their tax exempt status if they are

833
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 5: deemed to be in support of terrorism. And it seems

834
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 5: to me the way the language of that act or

835
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 5: that bill is structured, it would be a pretty easy

836
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 5: way to go after groups that are against whatever your

837
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 5: political beliefs are. And that is exactly the position that

838
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 5: the folks who are not in support of this measure

839
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 5: are taking, and that you know, folks with the ACLU

840
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 5: are taking, is that this is dangerous because apparently there

841
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 5: are already laws on the books that allow you to

842
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 5: go after nonprofits strip them of their tax exempt status

843
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 5: if they are seen to be connected with any organizations

844
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 5: that are classified as terrorist groups. This just makes it

845
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 5: easier and makes it like potentially able to be weaponized,

846
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 5: you know, in a nasty way. So the whole thing

847
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 5: is stalled essentially because of the way it was packaged,

848
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 5: which makes.

849
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 4: Sense because they have to be incredibly careful about this.

850
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 4: To recap what you said earlier, there are standing laws

851
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 4: that say if a non state actor just broadly put,

852
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 4: has kidnapped someone, you know, that could be a cartel,

853
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 4: that could be your local terrorist front. Then they're not

854
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 4: on the hook with the irs. They're a victim of

855
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 4: a crime. So it may seem strange, dare I say

856
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 4: legalistic to need an entirely new piece of legislation saying

857
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 4: what happens when it's a state actor, when it's a Russia,

858
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 4: you know, when it's an Iran or whatever. But the

859
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 4: point you make here, you know, just a moment ago,

860
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 4: is perhaps the most mission critical aspect of this debate.

861
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 4: It is stalling because there may be certain stakeholders or

862
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 4: certain people in the conversation who want to twist this

863
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 4: toward their own ends, which is always a danger in

864
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 4: the legislative branch.

865
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,439
Speaker 2: I feel like that's a thing that happens when when

866
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 2: a law comes along, or you know, something like this

867
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 2: is pretty clear cutting, straightforward, and everybody, especially this bipartisan everything, yeah,

868
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 2: this is great, and then something else just attaches to

869
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 2: it because.

870
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 4: They're not going to vote for the Patriot Act.

871
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 2: What does it do, right, Well, just tighten these other

872
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 2: twenty three other measures.

873
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 4: It's the stop penalties on American hostages act like this

874
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 4: is purposely branded as something that makes you look like

875
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 4: a dick if you vote against it.

876
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 3: Let's quote the article again really quickly.

877
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 5: The post piece, free speech and pro Palestinian advocacy groups

878
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 5: oppose that provision, concerned that it would be leveraged to

879
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 5: silence organizations with the scent views or halt the work

880
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 5: of humanitarian agencies that operate an area is controlled by

881
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 5: terrorist entities, especially in the context of the Israel Hamas

882
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 5: war in Gaza. That opposition probably dooms the House bills

883
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 5: chances in the Senate. And here is an interesting that

884
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 5: Chris Kuhns. Senator Chris Kuhns of Delaware Democratic Delaware is

885
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 5: one of the supporters who was referring to this, saying

886
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 5: that he hopes that the House will recognize they have

887
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 5: a chance to just send the bill to us and

888
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 5: it goes directly to the President's desk because they tried

889
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 5: to use something called a deeming resolution, which essentially, let's

890
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,280
Speaker 5: not get it the political minutia of it, but allows

891
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 5: them to do what he just said, It allows it

892
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 5: to kind of give it a fast path to ratification

893
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 5: because it just is so uncontroversial a thing like this,

894
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 5: but because of the way the House packaged it up

895
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 5: and added that unrelated bill to it, it changed the

896
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 5: language of the original bill, which rendered that deeming resolution

897
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 5: null and void essentially, So now they have to kind

898
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 5: of go back to square one. An interesting perspective from

899
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,959
Speaker 5: the side of the Isle. I guess that is sort

900
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 5: of holding things up here is worth reading as well.

901
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 5: The chair of the Ways and Means Committee, Jason T. Smith,

902
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 5: who's a Republican from Montana, said the following, referring to

903
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 5: the fact that Hamas are believed to be holding seven

904
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 5: American hostages in Gaza, four of whom are thoughts to

905
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 5: be alive when they are released. Even those folks could

906
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 5: face these tax burdens when they return. So Smith had

907
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 5: this to say, Our hearts break for the hostages kidnaped

908
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 5: by Hamas on October seventh, including the Americans still being

909
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 5: held captive. Russia and other nations continue to wrongfully detain

910
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 5: other Americans abroad as well. The last thing these Americans

911
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 5: and their families need are penalties for the irs for

912
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 5: a situation entirely out of their control. At the same time, sorry,

913
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 5: it's like a butt, big old butt US based organizations

914
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 5: that enjoy not for profit status in our tax code,

915
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:03,919
Speaker 5: while supporting terror or providing financial support to terrorist organizations

916
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 5: should not be able to benefit from tax exempt status.

917
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 5: I just don't understand what those two things have to

918
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,439
Speaker 5: do with one another. He's making it. It's a false equivalent. See,

919
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 5: it feels like it just seems like that that one

920
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 5: is controversial, and by packaging it with such a non

921
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 5: controversial build, it seems pretty slippery.

922
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 3: Guys, I don't know.

923
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 5: And because of that, it seems like anybody that does

924
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 5: get released in the situation, they will also be facing

925
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 5: these tax bills when they come back.

926
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 2: It's what happens when you build a giant machine that's

927
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,280
Speaker 2: way too big to see the ants that are running

928
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: the machine. Does that make sense?

929
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:39,439
Speaker 3: It does.

930
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 2: We're not people anymore, We're just batteries for the taxes.

931
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,919
Speaker 4: Again, the bidality of evil. Right, there's the idea of

932
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 4: dodging accountability by saying, oh, there's a system, and we

933
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 4: don't have a form for that. Additionally, no, just to

934
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 4: game this out, Devil's advocate a bit, we have to

935
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 4: think through some painful hypotheticals like there's a non zero chance,

936
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 4: for instance, and I'm sure some members of Congress are

937
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,919
Speaker 4: thinking about this. There's a non zero chance that let's

938
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 4: say you're a billionaire and you don't want to pay taxes,

939
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 4: so you just go get kidnapped for legal reasons for

940
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 4: you know, a year or two. That is cartoonish, but

941
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 4: it is not outside the realm of possibility.

942
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 3: But billionaires already don't have to pay taxes.

943
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, significantly less, it would seem because

944
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 5: the loopholes in the tax code.

945
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, what I'm saying, it could be weaponized.

946
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 5: That's a very not there's not a non zero chance

947
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 5: that that could be attempted. It would be a way

948
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 5: of a further loophole. Interesting stuff, pretty interesting view into

949
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 5: the political process. And how to your point, Matt, heartless,

950
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 5: it can be where it's like, well I love to

951
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,879
Speaker 5: help you out, but if you don't do this thing

952
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 5: for me, then I can't do this thing for you.

953
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 5: And it just seems, unfortunately all too common, and it

954
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,959
Speaker 5: is a it happens on both sides of the aisle.

955
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 5: You know, this is a pretty non part isn't problem.

956
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 5: I would argue that there are people on both sides

957
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 5: of the isle that play these types of cards when

958
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,879
Speaker 5: it comes to getting what they want politically, and it just.

959
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 3: Sort of sucks.

960
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, speaking of sort of sucks, we obviously don't want

961
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 4: anyone to ever be held hostage. I think that's that's

962
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 4: how we can all agree. And you brought up some

963
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 4: fantastic points things that we can chew on collectively here,

964
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 4: not just about how the legislative sausage gets made, but again,

965
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 4: like I was pointing out earlier, the work of Hannah

966
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 4: Errant with the banality of evil, right, because most people

967
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 4: don't think of themselves as the bad guy. They think

968
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,359
Speaker 4: of themselves as someone working within a system, often with

969
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 4: a of somehow changing that system for the better. So

970
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 4: hopefully anybody who has survived the harrowing trauma of a

971
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 4: hostage situation doesn't automatically get smacked with some whackadoo bill

972
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 4: by the boffins and the being counters. And we have

973
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 4: people in the irs who are listening to this show,

974
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 4: and we know that you know, I guess, without sounding

975
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 4: too cavalier, we obviously know these are just people trying

976
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,919
Speaker 4: to do their best at their career. There's no one

977
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 4: waking up one day steepling their hands. Monty Byrne style

978
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 4: and saying, this guy just survived the DPRK. I can't

979
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 4: wait to ruin his april, you know what I mean.

980
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 4: No one is doing that. And Noel again, can't thank

981
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 4: you enough for bringing this story, which was in specific

982
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,320
Speaker 4: new to me. Do you have any last words.

983
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 5: Where particularly you guys both made excellent points, and I

984
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 5: think this is something that people should be aware of

985
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 5: and just and it makes you a little sick considering

986
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 5: what I just said about how many loopholes there are

987
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 5: that benefit the super rich, you know, and the folks

988
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 5: that are put through the most traumatic experience they could

989
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 5: possibly go through are coming home to this kind of draconian,

990
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 5: you know, awfulness.

991
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 3: I just it really makes you a little bit, a

992
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 3: little bit angry.

993
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 4: Weirdest thing about the United States, man, it's expensive to

994
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 4: be poor in many cases. With that, we're going to

995
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 4: call it an evening. We're out to noctificate, which is

996
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,240
Speaker 4: our fancy dancy word for night walk. In the meantime,

997
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 4: we cannot wait to hear from you, fellow conspiracy realist.

998
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 4: Be safe out there. Let us know your thoughts on

999
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 4: the waffle House index. Let us know your thoughts on

1000
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 4: the ongoing investigations in your neck of the global woods.

1001
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 4: We'll come back with updates in the following weeks. Let

1002
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 4: us know your weird surreal encounters with the irs. And

1003
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 4: if you've a space brick and you're out of potato,

1004
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 4: starch and human blood, what would you use and why

1005
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 4: can't wait to hear from you? Try to be easy

1006
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 4: to find online.

1007
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 5: You can find us online indeed at the handle Conspiracy

1008
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 5: Stuff where we exist on Facebook where we have our

1009
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 5: Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy. You can join up,

1010
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 5: Join up today, we want you. You can also find

1011
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 5: us that handle on YouTube or we have video content

1012
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 5: galore for your perusal, and on xfka, Twitter, on Instagram

1013
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 5: and TikTok. However, we are Conspiracy Stuff Show.

1014
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 2: If you'd like to give us a call and leave

1015
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 2: a voicemail, our number is one eight three three STDWYTK.

1016
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 2: When you call in, give yourself a cool nickname, then

1017
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 2: let us know if we can use your name and

1018
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 2: message on the air. You've got three minutes say whatever

1019
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 2: you'd like. And if you've got links, attachments, anything else

1020
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 2: you want to send to us, why not write us

1021
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 2: an email.

1022
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 4: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence

1023
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 4: we receive, be well aware, yet unafree. Sometimes the void

1024
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 4: writes back, I want to see what we're talking about.

1025
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 4: Join us out here at the dark Conspiracy at iHeartRadio

1026
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 4: dot com.

1027
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

1028
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:34,840
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1029
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,360
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