1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Captain Ron. 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only, 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 2: Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates. 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: We would like to encourage you to do your own 10 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 2: research and discover the subject matter for yourself. 11 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron. Each week on Beyond Contact, 12 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 3: we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of 13 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 3: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from 14 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 3: the newest cases as we talk with the top experts. Hi, 15 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 3: and welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron, and 16 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: today we have the great pleasure of once again speaking 17 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 3: with Richard Dolan. Richard's one of the world's leading historians, authors, 18 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 3: and researchers on the UFO phenomenon. If you listen to 19 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 3: this show regularly, you know how often I'm touting him 20 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,919 Speaker 3: as a great resource for a rational view on this topic. 21 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 3: It's the perfect time to have him back on because 22 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 3: we've had so many things happen in the UFO community 23 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 3: in just the last month. There's been government UFO files released, 24 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 3: press conferences, a forum, several new entities have been created, 25 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 3: Multiple prominent investigators have threatened to release their personal files, 26 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 3: there was a Disclosure Day movie released, and much more. 27 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 3: There's no better person to get us up to speed 28 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 3: as to what it all actually means than miss Richard Dolan. 29 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 3: We need about nine shows with him, but we're going 30 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 3: to do it in two, so let's jump in. Hey Richard, 31 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 3: how are you, sir Ron. 32 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 4: It's great to be back, great to see your face, 33 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 4: and I'm looking forward to this. 34 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot happening right now. Let's start off 35 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 3: real quick. I want to hear you know, right after 36 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 3: Contact in the Desert, we had the release of the 37 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 3: Steven Spielberg Disclosure Day movie, which I understand you actually liked. 38 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 3: What was your takeaway from that film? 39 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 4: Yeah? I didn't hate it, so that that was a plus. 40 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 4: I feel like some people are not going to like 41 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 4: what I say because I'm not angry like I'm not. 42 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 4: I don't have this fury about it like a lot 43 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 4: of people seem to have. Plus, on top of that, 44 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 4: I enjoy. There's a few movie review critics out there 45 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 4: on the in the internet that I enjoy, and they 46 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 4: all hated the movie too. In fact, one of the 47 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 4: critics said, and I'm really into the UFO subject, and 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 4: he cited Jacques Phila and myself and he showed a 49 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 4: picture of my book says I know all their work, 50 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 4: and I still hated this movie. So when I heard him, 51 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 4: I'm thinking, well, I really I probably should hate the 52 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 4: movie also then, just out of respect to him, but 53 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 4: I went I went into the movie with Tracy, and 54 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 4: I saw the previews for other movies, and I didn't 55 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 4: like those because I'm getting kind of cranky about a 56 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 4: lot of movies. So I was really expecting to hate 57 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 4: this movie, and I didn't hate it. I thought, you know, 58 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 4: but I think the reason I didn't hate it is 59 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 4: a I didn't really invest my hopes and dreams and 60 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 4: aspirations for disclosure into this because, you know, a year 61 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 4: months before, when I saw the trailer or the teaser 62 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 4: or whatever the hell it was, I'm like, this doesn't 63 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 4: really look that great, So I wasn't really expecting much. 64 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 4: But actually, in fairness, what Spielberg did. So it's not 65 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 4: about disclosure, of course, there's enough. I mean it ends 66 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 4: at the moment of disclosure, Like so that's a big letdown. 67 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 4: But you know, knowing Spielberg, he brings in a lot 68 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 4: of the themes that those of us in this community 69 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 4: are very well aware of the secrecy, the privatized nature 70 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 4: of the secrecy. He has a company called Wardex which 71 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 4: is doing the cover up, Like it's kind of true. 72 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 4: The fact that there are other themes like consciousness is 73 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 4: a theme, Like for those of us who studies, we're like, yeah, 74 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 4: consciousness is kind of thing. There's even claims of telepathy. 75 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 4: They get into that remote viewing, remote influencing are in there. 76 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 4: He does all of this in a way that really 77 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 4: strange belief that you take every single scene of the 78 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 4: movie and stand on its own, You're like, that's not 79 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 4: really believable. You take the movie as a whole, You're like, 80 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 4: probably not believable. What saved this movie for me, what 81 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 4: really saves any movie for me, is the characters. So 82 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 4: if the acting, if I don't feel like I'm being 83 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 4: preached at that's a check. If I don't. If I 84 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 4: feel like the characters are somewhat psychologically plausible, I'm okay. 85 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 4: And that was really where this movie like kept me. 86 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 4: I felt the characters were more or less psychologically plausible, 87 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 4: the plot not so much, the UFO aspects not so much. 88 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 4: So I just didn't go in expecting it to be 89 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 4: a disclosure movie. In that reason, I really wasn't not disappointed. 90 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, that helped a lot, I'm sure. Okay. So there's 91 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 3: this new organization that formed or at least was rebranded 92 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 3: this year called the Disclosure Foundation, And on June ninth, 93 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 3: they put together this press conference on Capitol Hill for 94 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 3: what they described as a coordinated call for the declassification 95 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 3: and congressional action on UAPs. And this event had people 96 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 3: like David Grush and Chris Mellan and others, and they 97 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 3: even had members of Congress. What was your overall takeaway 98 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 3: from that press conference, let's call it. 99 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 4: I was basically supportive of it. I mean, first of all, 100 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 4: I would say that there was a little bit of 101 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 4: new stuff in there. Basically, when David Grush is talking 102 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 4: about energy beings or these plasma beings, plasma intelligence whatever. 103 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 4: It didn't really go deep on that, but everyone including myself, 104 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 4: was like, wait, say what come back to that. I 105 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 4: want to hear more about that. But basically that wasn't disclosure. 106 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 4: There's no documents, no photographs, no video. But I guess 107 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 4: I think it was that these people were trying to 108 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 4: apply political pressure and public pressure really on the White 109 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 4: House and on the Department of Defense and on the 110 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 4: intelligence agencies, basically on the secrecy system. I think that 111 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 4: was the real story that I saw. And what was 112 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 4: the basic claim Congress is being denied access to information 113 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 4: that it is a constitutional right to see. That's basically it. 114 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 4: Different people said this in different ways, but I think 115 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 4: that was the point. So a lot of it was 116 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 4: more than a UFO story. I think you could call 117 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 4: it a constitutional story. Whether elected representatives in Congress in 118 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 4: this case have the right or are actually able to 119 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 4: examine classified programs that involve exotic recovery technology. Do they 120 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 4: have the right to do that? And I think that's 121 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 4: really what it came down to. The rest was really 122 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 4: not that surprising, except for Grecia's statement about how did 123 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 4: he put a sentient plasma intelligence sometimes. 124 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 3: Plasma life sentient plasma life. That felt out of nowhere 125 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 3: to me. I was like, whoa what now? So some 126 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: of these things felt very easy to get your head around, 127 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 3: things like congressional oversight on special access programs as you mentioned. 128 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 3: I think everyone can see and even get on board 129 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 3: with that, even the overclassification type stuff. But these other 130 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 3: things are much tougher, Like I wonder why did he 131 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 3: even mention sentient plasmo life. This is a tough pill 132 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 3: to swallow, certainly for those outside our community. Don't you think? 133 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 4: I agree with you? And this is the problem that 134 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 4: we always have in our community because like, do you 135 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 4: think of this subject? Right? This subject ufouap. It's like 136 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 4: disclosure in a sense, there's not one level, Like you 137 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 4: can't just say we'll have disclosure. Disclosure. We can get 138 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 4: into that, But in terms of this subject, this, as 139 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 4: you know, and as most listeners probably know, is a 140 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 4: very steep. 141 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 3: Did you say both listeners? Sorry? Go ahead? Said oh 142 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 3: most listeners? Okay, sorry, of. 143 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 4: Your many listeners, yeah, all three of them? Right. I 144 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 4: just think this subject goes through many different layers of reality. 145 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 4: Like the first reality is, oh, well, there's there seems 146 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 4: to be something here that we can't really explain. That 147 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 4: doesn't really get you into hot water if you're making 148 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 4: the xp you're saying this to the public. But then 149 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 4: the deeper you go, the more crazy it gets. It's like, oh, yeah, 150 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 4: well there's been things we've been chasing them, we don't 151 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 4: we've we've failed, or you could say we've we've got 152 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 4: some of their hardware. Well, then now you're in the 153 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 4: deeper waters. Or then you can say, well, yeah, we're 154 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 4: aware that there's a variety of intelligences and now you're 155 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 4: getting into what David Gresh was basically talking about. And 156 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 4: then you could say, well, we think some of them 157 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 4: look like humans and they're walking among it like you could. 158 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 4: You could just go down the road here one hundred 159 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 4: percent deeper and deeper levels that actually could be plausible, 160 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 4: but at first seem totally outrageous. 161 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 3: One percent. You know, yes, and this brings me to 162 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 3: this what made me think about this? Let me let 163 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 3: me get your opinion on this. Do you think it's 164 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: possible that the reason for the secrecy is not all 165 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 3: the obvious things that we've been suspecting for years, adversaries, 166 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 3: world disruptions, all of those kind of things, but Rather, 167 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 3: what if it's not as simple as great aliens flying 168 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 3: here from another planet. What if it is plasmoid entities 169 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 3: using psionics to control us from another dimension or something 170 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 3: far beyond what we're prepared for. 171 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I suspect that they're if we really, if we 172 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 4: were truly to dig down to the core like sensitive 173 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 4: reality of this, something like that could very well be 174 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 4: the case. The craft behave in a way that shows 175 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 4: me that they are way, way way beyond us in 176 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 4: their capabilities and in their ability to manage our technology 177 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 4: with ease, and in their ability to kind of manipulate 178 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 4: our consciousness on many levels. And I'm not even talking 179 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 4: about telepathy. 180 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 3: Or anything like that. 181 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 4: I just mean their ability to kind of wipe us 182 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 4: for a couple of hours and make us wonder what 183 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 4: the hell just happened? Like, they clearly have a sophisticated 184 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 4: ability with this, So already there are things that they're 185 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 4: able to do that that signify something well, well beyond 186 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 4: space time manipulation. Is that impossible? Now, It's not impossible, 187 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 4: because if they're coming, whether it's another planet or another dimension, 188 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 4: they probably are doing something like that. In other words, 189 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 4: you're not just gonna be able to fly from another 190 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 4: star system to get to Earth using our type of technology, 191 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 4: you're gonna have to do something kind of exotic like 192 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 4: bend space. And if you can bend space, then that 193 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 4: means you're bending time. That means you're playing with space 194 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 4: time metrics, like as Alputof or Eric Davis would say. 195 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 4: So that's a highly advanced capability. And if they can 196 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 4: do that, then you have to ask what else can 197 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 4: they do? Like, I don't know about it on an 198 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 4: individual basis, Are they more intelligent than us? 199 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: On that? 200 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 4: Probably? But certainly the real intelligence that matters is their 201 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 4: societal intelligence, just like with us. So we now we 202 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,719 Speaker 4: have global bandwidth, global digital communications, like we're able to 203 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 4: exchange information in a very very profound way compared with 204 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 4: any prior time period. So now take what we can 205 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 4: can do and max and throw their band without times 206 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 4: one hundred times a thousand. I'm sure they're able to 207 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 4: process data and information in ways that we can't even 208 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 4: begin to fathom. So there's probably profound realities to what 209 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 4: they're about that would be very disruptive, you know. 210 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 3: No doubt about it. And even like you said, how 211 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 3: put Off and others have talked about the math works 212 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 3: that we are able to manipulate spacetime more than we realize. 213 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 3: When we come back, we're going to ask Richard about 214 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 3: the second event that took place in June, also held 215 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 3: by the Disclosure Foundation on June twenty fifth. You're listening 216 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 3: to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 217 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 3: AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact 218 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 3: speaking with Richard Dolan. Richard, this Disclosure Foundation group held 219 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 3: a second event on June twenty fifth, where they called 220 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 3: it a public Policy Forum, and they had a whole 221 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 3: day forum intended to move this conversation from the whistleblower 222 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 3: allegations and more to public policy, science, national security, and oversight. Again, 223 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 3: they had several sitting members of Congress participate, along with 224 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 3: former intelligence officials, scientists, military officers, and journalists. What do 225 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 3: you think was the most significant takeaway from that event? 226 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 4: Probably the fact that it went for seven and a half. 227 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 4: It was very long, Yes, I mean, first of all, 228 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 4: what it did not have like if you were hoping 229 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 4: for a dramatic new revelation were I don't think there 230 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 4: were any nothing like that. But if I would say so, 231 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 4: if you want to understand where the disclosure movement stands 232 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty six. I think this was kind of 233 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 4: an important event because disclosure, I often feel, is a 234 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 4: process rather than an event, and I think that forum 235 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 4: kind of reinforces like I think the thing that stood 236 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 4: out to me is that it represents how the disclosure 237 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 4: movement has really changed over the last decade or even more. 238 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 4: In some ways you could say it's matured. In other ways, 239 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 4: you could say it's coming institutionalized. I think I think 240 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 4: it's fair to say that. So whether whether that's ultimately 241 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 4: a strength or weakness, we can discuss and come to 242 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 4: whatever conclusions. But you know, when I think of UFO 243 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 4: events or conferences from a couple of decades ago, those 244 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 4: are very different, very different. You've got a their combination 245 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 4: of researchers and witnesses and enthusiasts, and where politics was 246 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 4: sometimes in the mix but often was not in the mix. 247 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 4: This forum was basically a Washington, d C. Policy conference 248 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 4: that was built around the UFO or UAP issue. That's 249 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 4: that's how I saw it. So you had members of 250 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 4: commerce there, we had the former intelligence people there, scientists 251 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 4: and some journalists, policy advocates, basically, and they're talking about 252 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 4: legislation and things like that, and whistleblower protection, which I 253 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 4: think was probably one of the important things that they discussed. 254 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 4: I mean, if you're gonna if you're gonna have disclosure, 255 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 4: a genuine disclosure, I I would say whistleblower protection might 256 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 4: be the very first thing you need to do because 257 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 4: those there are definitely people that are within the system 258 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 4: of UAP secrecy who probably would be interested and willing 259 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 4: to talk publicly, but they are absolutely constrained by the 260 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 4: protocols and the classifications that they are guided by, and 261 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 4: they can't. So they need to be released from those obligations, 262 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 4: and that's what whistleblower protection could do. You know, all 263 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 4: of that I think was useful and important. Where will 264 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 4: actually end up how much pressure they were able to 265 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 4: put on as another question, I mean, I thought the 266 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 4: media coverage of that was very skimpy. It was very little. 267 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 3: Frankly, so very much. 268 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 4: I don't know if Yeah, I don't know if it 269 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 4: had the effect that they wanted, but I think I 270 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 4: have to laud the attempt. I think now, you know, 271 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 4: I talked with people who are very critical of this. 272 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 4: There's a lot of folks in our community. There's a 273 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 4: lot of angry people in our community. I think it's 274 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 4: a much angrier community than has ever been, and I 275 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 4: suspect it's because people's hopes are higher than they've ever been, 276 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 4: and so every time something doesn't meet those hopes, they 277 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 4: get mad. And in the case of some of these folks, 278 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 4: I often will hear they're rolling out a control disclosure. 279 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 4: They're rolling out a disclosure that doesn't benefit the public 280 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 4: but benefits whatever particular interest you can say that they 281 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 4: have to me, I just say, you know, you're dealing 282 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 4: with people who have a lifetime within the classified world. 283 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 4: These are people who are former government employees, many former 284 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 4: contractors of the government. They're not coming in to burn 285 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 4: down the house. That is not their goal. Their goal 286 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 4: is to work within the system. It's I don't see 287 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 4: why people are surprised that they're not trying to start 288 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 4: a revolution. Some people want a revolution around disclosure. These 289 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 4: people are never going to do that, so they are 290 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 4: being careful. They are measuring their words carefully. But on 291 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 4: the other hand, it's almost a minor miracle that they 292 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 4: were able to have this type of event without being 293 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 4: left out of the room. I mean this, you know 294 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 4: ten years ago that would have happened. 295 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 3: They took it very seriously, and they go under the 296 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: assumption that this is a real phenomenon. They don't make 297 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 3: it like are they real? Are they here? They assume 298 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 3: that now, how can we address it? Which I thought 299 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 3: was a very good positive asa. 300 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 4: Christopher Mellon, in my opinion, really encapsulates this approach better 301 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 4: probably than anybody. I mean, Melan I've always felt is 302 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 4: he's very polished, he's very professional, always very measured. But 303 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 4: I would always say he's very like on point with 304 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 4: most of the things that he says. He doesn't really 305 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 4: hold very much back. He's been saying for years, for example, 306 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 4: that the United States Air Force has a satellite system 307 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 4: that he knows for a fact that he said that 308 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 4: they're capturing UAP data. How come we don't hear a 309 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 4: thing from the Air Force. They're totally silent. They're getting 310 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 4: a free ride here. He calls things like that out repeatedly. 311 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 4: He's a good force for this. Some people will say 312 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 4: he doesn't go far enough. In my opinion, he's probably 313 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 4: going every bit as far as he feels he's able to. 314 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: That's great. Yeah, I think he's a very important figure 315 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 3: right now myself. Yeah, sure, right. A lot of people 316 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 3: in the community are frustrated, We're growing anxious. People outside 317 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 3: this community are very frustrated that these things tend to 318 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 3: produce no real substantive thing to them. So regarding these 319 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 3: UFO government files that have been released, Anna Polina Luna 320 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: just stated the other day that they've already released the 321 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 3: meat and potatoes, like the best stuff is out already, 322 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 3: and I was in the camp that it must be 323 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 3: just ramping up. It just sounds like it's not going 324 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 3: to though now that that was the good stuff. I 325 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 3: think that this and the press conferences that aren't really 326 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 3: giving us as much as we had hoped, some strong, 327 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 3: real evidence, and that's motivated some action. I'm not sure 328 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 3: if he saw this, Richard, but in the last couple 329 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 3: of weeks, Jeremy Corbel came out and said that he's 330 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 3: prepared to release all of his private documents and videos. 331 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 3: And in the last few days, doctor Stephen Greer's given 332 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 3: the administration sixty days to respond to him or he's 333 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 3: going to release everything he has as well, and he 334 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,479 Speaker 3: calls it hard evidence. I'm not sure why, but all 335 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 3: of this is getting me very excited that we're going 336 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,120 Speaker 3: to see an onslaught of better stuff. 337 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 4: What do you think I think that I would love 338 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 4: that Jeremy and Stephen Greer both released what they have 339 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 4: if they're able and willing to do it by all means, 340 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 4: I guess this is what I would say about the releases. 341 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 4: By the way, I didn't hear Luna make that statement, 342 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 4: but that doesn't surprise me at all, because when she 343 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 4: talked about, you know, I demand these forty six videos 344 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 4: that she talked about, particularly the third release by the 345 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 4: White House, a number of the videos struck me as 346 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 4: exactly the ones, some of the ones that Luna kind 347 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 4: of referred to. And some of those videos are really 348 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 4: quite interesting. I mean, the problem with all of the 349 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 4: videos there's two aspects. There's the videos and then there's 350 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 4: the documents. So the videos, some of them I thought 351 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 4: were actually very interesting, but the problem with every one 352 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 4: of them is that all the metadata was scrubbed out, 353 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 4: so you're really unable to do a proper analysis of 354 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 4: the speed of the distance and all of these other 355 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 4: things that would be there if you had access to that. 356 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 4: And so the effect of all of those videos is 357 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 4: you're left with this situation. Like a good example would 358 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 4: be the twenty seventeen Syrian video that showed a kind 359 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 4: of instant acceleration. You might remember this. I'm sure some 360 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 4: people watching that listening to this do remember this. It's 361 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 4: a remarkable video. I mean I looked at that and 362 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 4: I thought, I cannot fathom a conventional explanation for what 363 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 4: I just saw. 364 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 3: So that's one. 365 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 4: But lacking the metadata, you can't really nail it down 366 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 4: with certainty because you don't really have normal data to 367 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 4: work with. So that's the problem with those videos. As 368 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 4: far as the documents go, I suspect most people don't 369 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 4: read the documents. The last release, third one was like 370 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 4: eighty probably eighty percent were documents of PDFs. I read 371 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 4: all of them. I didn't read all of them cover 372 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 4: to cover, but I read all of them. I know 373 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 4: it's in them, and I will just say this, I 374 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 4: would have loved to have had access to some of 375 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 4: those documents who were known about them when I was 376 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 4: writing my first couple of books, because some of them 377 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 4: are pretty damn interesting. There's a lot of classic nineteen 378 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 4: forties documents that really prove Again, like many other documents, 379 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 4: do that. The United States government was deeply, deeply engaged 380 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 4: in the UFO flying saucer topic in the nineteen forties 381 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 4: and fifties, when they were saying to the world, Oh, 382 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 4: we've got it all figured out, there's nothing to it. 383 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 4: But there are a number of documents that showed this 384 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 4: as a bullfaced lie, that they were seriously concerned. And 385 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 4: some of those documents were very sophisticated, and I thought 386 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 4: a welcome release. So I was actually happy to see, 387 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 4: particularly the second and third releases of documents I thought 388 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 4: were actually not terrible at all. Now here's the problem. 389 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 4: If the government really wanted to do disclosure, like a 390 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 4: genuine disclosure, I have something I call the hangar test. 391 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 4: It's like, you know, put an iPhone in the hand 392 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 4: of some four star general. I haven't walked through a 393 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 4: hangar and record the craft or bodies or what hecker like. 394 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:46,959 Speaker 4: It wouldn't be that difficult. 395 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 3: I say, it's that easy. That is an easy FIXX Richard. 396 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 4: I wanted to do it, yes, and so I call 397 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 4: that the hanger test. And they're not doing that. They're 398 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 4: never going to do that, right, that's not going to happen. 399 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 4: So what we're getting is not disclosure. So that's the 400 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 4: first thing we have to understand. What we are getting 401 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,479 Speaker 4: is the result of let's call it a back and 402 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 4: forth tug of war, civil war going on within the 403 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 4: National security state over this subject, okay. And the result 404 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 4: is that the bureaucracy felt pressured enough by this, and 405 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 4: Trump gave the order, but probably other people around him said, look, 406 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 4: we got to release the valve here. Let some of 407 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 4: the pressure off. Let's less some documents out, and we'll 408 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 4: call that answering the public. 409 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 3: Right, that's transparency. That's pretty fast. 410 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 4: I think that's what they did, and that's what they're doing. 411 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 3: We need to take a break here, Richard, let's pick 412 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 3: this up on the other side. Okay. We're going to 413 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 3: come back and we're going to talk to Richard Moore 414 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 3: about the value in thesewar dot gov large scale coordinated 415 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 3: releases from the government of classified documents and videos and photos. 416 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: You're listening to Beyond Contact and the iHeartRadio on Coast 417 00:21:50,800 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 3: to Coast am Paranormal podcast network. We are back on 418 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 3: Beyond Contact speaking with Richard Dolan. Richard, we're talking about 419 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 3: these file releases that started back on May eighth. We've 420 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 3: had three already, and many people are very disappointed, saying 421 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 3: there's nothing here, and you know, they just want that 422 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 3: smoking gun, the proof, the anything short of that's not enough. 423 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 3: But you're saying there's some value in here. What do 424 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 3: you see? Give us some examples of what else you 425 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 3: see that is takeaway. 426 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 4: From well, I'm just going off a memory here. Yeah. 427 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 4: First of all, as I mentioned in the last segment, 428 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 4: there were some videos that actually are genuinely interesting. I mean, 429 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 4: in the last release, for example, there was this is 430 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 4: fairly contemporary. This is actually from the Arrow Office. 431 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 3: That legitimate organization. Okay, good, that's credible. 432 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, so was this from twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, 433 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 4: I believe. So what we found were some FBI files 434 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 4: connect to the Arrow Office in which they're they're tracking 435 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 4: these orbs in the Western United States and also in 436 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 4: the eastern part of the United States. The ones in 437 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 4: the Western United States. The FBI had they hired an 438 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 4: artist who did a very sophisticated re construction of some 439 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 4: of this ORB phenomenon that what they were tracking and 440 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 4: reporting that has no explanation, logical explanation, And they made 441 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 4: it clear in their own assessment that they don't really 442 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 4: know what the hell this was, but that there were 443 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 4: a number of witnesses who were highly credible who reported 444 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 4: this orb of activity, and so they the FBI went 445 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 4: to the trouble of hiring an artist slage illustrator to 446 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 4: create a series of illustrations which are available in the release. 447 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 4: Anyone can watch it, and they even put together a 448 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 4: kind of a video showing how they think this this 449 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 4: went down, and it's like a classic identified anomalist phenomenon. 450 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 4: Not the government saying aliens are here, but it is 451 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 4: actually the government in a recent investigation, clearly indicating they're 452 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 4: taking this seriously. They cannot explain it and share as 453 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 4: hell looks like UFOs. Frankly, I was surprised that there 454 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 4: wasn't much more of a conversation about that. And then 455 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 4: you know, as I mentioned, there are other videos that 456 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 4: were at least interesting, if not proof. But then you 457 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 4: come down to the documents, and many of them are 458 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 4: historical documents, and I can understand people really not being engaged, 459 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 4: But when people say there's nothing there, I think that 460 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 4: has to be just flat out contradicted, and I have 461 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 4: to say that's wrong. So that's an incorrect statement, there 462 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 4: is something there, and if someone has the patience to 463 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 4: go through the documents in particular, they will find a very, 464 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 4: very overwhelming case at the United States government has been 465 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 4: baffled by these UFOs for years and years and years 466 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 4: and years. 467 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 3: I think that's the point, you know. For me, one 468 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 3: of the important thing is simply that all we heard 469 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 3: from nineteen forty seven to twenty seventeen was we have 470 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 3: nothing to do with UFOs. We don't track them, we 471 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 3: don't keep trackers, we don't keep files, just flat out denial. 472 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 3: And now we have all these records coming forward from 473 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 3: different agencies, mind you, showing that they in fact do 474 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 3: care and do track them and do keep records as 475 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 3: they should, regardless of what their real sources, whether they're 476 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 3: alien or not, they do keep files on this stuff. 477 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 3: So if nothing else, we know they've been lying. Right, Yeah, 478 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 3: that's right. 479 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 4: This is a little bit of a reboot from the 480 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 4: nineteen seventies when the Freedom of Information Act first really 481 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 4: got some teeth and went into effect and was relevant 482 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 4: for the UFO subject. Is what happened then, same thing 483 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 4: the government for years and years had said, look, we 484 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 4: closed Project Bluebook, we don't investigate these UFOs. We never 485 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 4: found any evidence that they were extraordinary, and that was 486 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 4: their line until in the mid and late nineteen seventies, 487 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 4: researchers started to do the Foyer process on UFOs, and 488 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 4: you know, many, many, many, many documents were released that 489 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 4: were declassified that showed exactly the opposite, and they showed 490 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 4: the government was lying. And we're seeing a kind of 491 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 4: replay of that now. So the government, especially up until 492 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, the United States government continued to maintain despite 493 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 4: all the evidence of the contrary. They maintained, Yeah, we're 494 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 4: not We've looked into it, there's nothing there. And then 495 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 4: we find out, oh, no, you have. You had this 496 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 4: program called ASAP and this other program right tip and 497 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 4: and and then you know stories that which I think 498 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 4: are true, that that Robert Bigelow's company tried to acquire 499 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 4: i think a craft from the possession of Lockheed Martin 500 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 4: and that that was denied and blocked twice by a 501 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 4: senior CIA officer by the name of Glenn Gaffney around 502 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 4: two thousand and nine or so. That is that is 503 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 4: the claim. I think it's a true claim. So all 504 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 4: of this stuff comes out and we now can see. 505 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 4: Oh no, the US government's been very, very interested in this. 506 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 3: All yes, and they say there's millions of files they claim. 507 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 3: You know, another important aspect of this is who these 508 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 3: files went to. You see documents in there that went 509 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 3: to cabinet members, and I just wouldn't think that give 510 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 3: this to people at that level if it wasn't significant. 511 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 4: What do you think You agree completely with that. Every 512 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 4: now and then, if you're a researcher, we're lucky enough 513 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 4: to find a document like what you describe where the 514 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 4: recipient is Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State, President of 515 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 4: the United States. There's some of those I don't know 516 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 4: about in the recent releases, but in the earlier years 517 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 4: we certainly have some documents where the recipient was the president. 518 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 4: So you know, obviously this subject has the ability to 519 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 4: present enough of a sense of urgency from time to 520 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 4: time that the need has felt like this is to 521 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 4: go right to the top, like the top of the government, 522 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 4: and it has done so on a number of occasions. 523 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 3: You know, years ago you told me that it wasn't 524 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 3: that there was just one piece of evidence that pointed 525 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 3: to the UFO question being a reality, but rather with 526 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 3: the totality of the vast array of information testimony witnesses, 527 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 3: and I think it's almost the same thing here. Again, 528 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 3: they say there's millions of these files that they're pouring over. 529 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 3: I don't think we're going to see the really good stuff, 530 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 3: the proof, if you will. I don't even think the 531 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 3: agencies were asking to have the really good stuff. But 532 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 3: the fact that there's so many agencies with so many 533 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 3: files that at least provide some smoke around this issue 534 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 3: is very telling to me. I just love that they 535 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 3: have a file labeled the Roswell disc. Why would you 536 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 3: even have a file named the Roswell disc if it 537 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 3: was just a weather blonger. 538 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great question. I actually didn't remember saying 539 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 4: that to you years ago, but it sounds like me, 540 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 4: oh yeah, that there's a totality of this subject, that 541 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 4: it's real power. I suspect that, you know, if we're 542 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 4: looking through government agencies and offices, we might have a 543 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 4: hard time finding those smoking gun documents that you are 544 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 4: referring to. I'm not saying it's impossible. I suspect maybe 545 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 4: the Department of Energy, which by the way, is a 546 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 4: place that Christi Hermellen often refers to and I think 547 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 4: he's exactly right. The DOE think is no one really 548 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 4: looks at them, but they are very very deep in 549 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 4: this subject. But it's possible that some government agencies have 550 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 4: the kind of evidence that we are that we would 551 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 4: love to see. But I really wonder, and I suspect 552 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 4: that much of this has become privatized over many years, 553 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,479 Speaker 4: and that I think one of the most important questions 554 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 4: we can ask about the cover up if we're interested 555 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 4: in that, is really asking what is the actual architecture 556 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 4: of this what is the structure of this cover up? 557 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 4: What's the structure of this secrecy? That's not easy to 558 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 4: know off him. Who's who's the one ultimately in charge? 559 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 4: I asked myself this question frequently. Is it the President 560 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 4: of the United States? Then I don't think so. I don't. 561 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 4: I don't think that's how our system works. And enough 562 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 4: high level, brilliant insiders have said the exact same to me. 563 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 4: You know, personally, privately the president. Presidents come and go. 564 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 3: He's a need to know that are reliable. 565 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 4: To the insiders. Some are not, and so they're not 566 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 4: often always read in. And sometimes a president needs deniability. 567 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 4: A president has to be able to lie persuasively to 568 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 4: the public, and the best way to do that is 569 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 4: don't give the president the most sensitive information so that 570 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 4: he has to lie like you don't want to do 571 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 4: that to him. So a lot of these things are 572 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 4: kept away from the president, I think by design, not 573 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 4: just with the UFOs. I think you know, US does 574 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 4: all these regime change operations around the world and things 575 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 4: like that, those are often I think kept from the 576 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 4: from the commander in chief as well, So I think 577 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 4: with the UFP it's probably the same. And then you 578 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 4: have to ask, Okay, if it's the president out of 579 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 4: the loop, then who's in the loop? Who's really making 580 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 4: the ultimate call? And we don't we do not have 581 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 4: that answer for certain That's right. 582 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 3: That's the big one. When we come back, We're going 583 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 3: to ask Richard about all these new groups that seem 584 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 3: to have cropped up very recently, both officially in the 585 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 3: government and independently, and what they may mean for the 586 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 3: disclosure movement. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio 587 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 3: on Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast network. We are 588 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,479 Speaker 3: back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Richard Dolan. Richard 589 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 3: before I ask you about all these private groups and 590 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 3: these nonprofits that have been created recently, it's getting quite 591 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 3: crowded and confusing out there. I want to start with 592 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 3: these brand new official government bodies. First. We have this 593 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 3: UAP Governance Board, which was just established this June in 594 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 3: coordination with the FBI and the US Department of Defense 595 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 3: as an interagency board. Its stated mission is to oversee 596 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 3: federal coordination of UAP investigations and transparency efforts. Alongside with 597 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 3: investigative offices. They also created a UAP Science Advisory Console, 598 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 3: which serves as an independent scientific advisory console that reports 599 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 3: to the UAP Governance Board that I just mentioned. It's 600 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 3: stated purposes to provide scientific analysis using unclassified data to 601 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 3: help the government improve the quality of UAP investigations rather 602 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 3: than conducting classified intelligent work. Of course, that's shared by 603 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 3: AVI LOBE. What do you make of all of these 604 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 3: that the governments, you know, they said that they established 605 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 3: ARROW to handle all of this. Now we have these 606 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 3: two new groups. What are your thoughts on them? 607 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not really sure what I think because it's 608 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 4: all brand new, but this is again part of the 609 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 4: ongoing institutionalization. We can say of the we want to 610 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 4: call it the disclosure movement is as positive as it's 611 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 4: not positive. You know, back in the days when the 612 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 4: US Air Force had Project blue Book, people often said 613 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 4: similar things what you hear today. It's like Bluebook is 614 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 4: a charade, which it kind of was. Blue Book is 615 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 4: designed to explain away as much as it is to 616 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 4: explain Also true, I would say, but as much of 617 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 4: a problem as blue Book was, and as much of 618 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 4: a you know, disappointment as it was, at least it 619 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,479 Speaker 4: was our disappointment in the sense that it was an 620 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 4: official government body that was responsible to this for this subject, 621 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 4: and that the public could then use as a kind 622 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 4: of wedge to open up the issue. You know, the 623 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 4: public could always say, well, if you don't think this 624 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 4: is such a big deal, why do you even have 625 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 4: Project blue Book? And what's the real story behind blue Book? 626 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 4: So the public always had a way to kind of 627 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 4: access the subject through official channels with blue Book. When 628 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 4: blue Book closed in nineteen sixty nine, you know, my 629 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 4: position always had been that was a loss for the people. 630 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 4: As limited as Bluebook was, it was a loss from 631 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 4: the point of view of public governance and public accountability 632 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 4: on that for that reason. I think, you know, it's 633 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 4: better than to have arrow than not to have them, 634 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 4: and it's better probably to have these bodies than not 635 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 4: to have them. And another thing you might say is 636 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 4: that if you start getting crowding in the field with 637 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 4: all these agencies, whether public or private, you know, you 638 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 4: get a little bit of it. Maybe is it a 639 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 4: matter of the Darwinian survival of the fittest? Well one 640 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 4: of those agencies, in other words, turn out to be 641 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 4: actually valuable in the long run, And I don't really 642 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 4: know if any of them will or won't clearly. With 643 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 4: the scientific board that you discussed, it's well known that 644 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 4: one of the members of that is the well known 645 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 4: skeptic Michael Shermer, who is not a friend to the 646 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 4: real you know, the idea of the reality of UFOs. 647 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 4: We've known this for many, many years. But that's also 648 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 4: something you'd have to expect with a government body. You 649 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 4: can't just one cannot expect the United States government to 650 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 4: load a scientific body with just straight up believers. I mean, 651 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 4: after all, we have to remember this. The United States 652 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 4: government has not disclosed really anything about the subject. There's 653 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 4: been no disclosure. There's been pressure from Congress there's been 654 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 4: pressure from certain groups that have gotten some attention. But 655 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 4: the US government itself, aside from releasing some documents, and 656 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 4: aside from kind of saying, yeah, there's something there, we 657 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 4: don't know what it is, they've never ever, No, I'm 658 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 4: not aware of any official government statement that even hints 659 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 4: that they believe the extraterrestrial or alien explanation. 660 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 3: You know, there seems to be this onslaught of different 661 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 3: groups outside of the government too, and these nonprofits, Richard, 662 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 3: most of them formed it just like in the last 663 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 3: two years, many incredible people in them, and most of 664 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 3: them seem very well intentioned, at least by their mission statement. 665 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 3: Just real quick. What I'm referring to is like the 666 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 3: New Paradigm Institute, the American for Safe air Space, Scientific 667 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 3: Coalition for UAP studies, this Disclosure Foundation that just had 668 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 3: their two events Full Disclosure, International UAP Discovery, even the 669 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 3: GAP Project. There's tons more. What do you What do 670 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 3: you think is do you think that this is possible, 671 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 3: that this is kind of fracturing the disclosure movement or 672 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 3: do you think it's going to have a net positive. 673 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 4: I suspect it's happening because there's money there I suspect 674 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 4: that's the number one reason. Like, you know, people organizing 675 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,760 Speaker 4: these groups realize I might be able to get serious funding, 676 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 4: and that's always an attractive prospect. That the atmosphere of 677 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 4: the environment for this subject is far more open than 678 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 4: it has ever been. Again, a couple of million dollars 679 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 4: you know, as donations, that's real, and that's on the table. 680 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 4: So I'm sure that's a major motivation right there. Is 681 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 4: it fracturing the community? I don't know, because I mean, honestly, 682 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 4: this community has always been fractured. It is It's never 683 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 4: there's never been. I mean, we've had we had Moufon, 684 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 4: you know, and I'm not knocking Moufon, by the way, 685 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 4: but how much leadership can you really say that Moufon 686 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,320 Speaker 4: was able to provide during the nineteen seventies and nineteen 687 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 4: eighties and nineteen nine, I mean not very much. Limited. Again, No, 688 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,359 Speaker 4: it is not criticising them. It's just, you know, all 689 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 4: of these organizations run into the limits of what they're 690 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 4: able to accomplish. So you mentioned this Scientific Coalition of 691 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 4: Euthology and the SCU. They've been around for a little 692 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 4: while now and they've done excellent work. Abby lobes Galileo 693 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 4: Project does kind of a separate thing. This community has 694 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 4: always been like hurting cats totally. You can't when you 695 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 4: think about what it takes to research this subject like 696 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 4: a researcher, like maybe like you or like myself, I 697 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,879 Speaker 4: don't really I don't think I would work very congenially 698 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 4: within the structures of a larger institution trying to tell 699 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 4: me what to do. Like a lot of us, we 700 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,280 Speaker 4: want to research what we want to research, and we 701 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 4: go off and do our own thing. It seems to 702 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 4: me that what we're seeing is the kind of version 703 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 4: of that. We're dealing with a couple of different things here. 704 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 4: And I love the fact that the title of your 705 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 4: program is Beyond Contact, because what I always feel is 706 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 4: disclosure and contact are two totally different things. Disclosure is 707 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 4: governments and what human beings are able to do. Contact. 708 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 4: From my perspective, that's them, that's these other intelligences, and 709 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 4: I don't really personally think that we have a lot 710 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 4: of control over that. And so with these organizations, what 711 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 4: they're doing, what are they doing? Are they trying to 712 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 4: have disclosure? Are they trying to do a scientific study 713 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 4: and understand this phenomenon. I think most of them are 714 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 4: trying to do the latter, some are trying to do 715 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 4: the first, but they're not all trying to do the 716 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 4: same thing. So for me, there's a lot of room 717 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 4: or ongoing scientific exploration and examination of this subject, and 718 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 4: I support that on every level hundred percent. Yeah, the 719 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 4: disclosure initiatives, I'm supportive of those as well, but I'm 720 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,439 Speaker 4: much more skeptical that we're going to really make any 721 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 4: genuine disclosure progress. 722 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 3: I'm on record personally saying time and time again that 723 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 3: we're not going to get full big d disclosure period. 724 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 3: There's no impetus to do this. I just I'm still 725 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 3: in that camp. However, I do have this tiny little asterisk, 726 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 3: and that is this administration. Do you think that this 727 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:10,240 Speaker 3: president could actually do official disclosure, at least to a degree? 728 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,359 Speaker 4: Not impossible. Guy like Donald Trump, you, like a lot 729 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 4: of people probably would have thought he's just crazy enough 730 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 4: to do it. Like right, you could imagine a guy 731 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 4: like Trump giving a two am tweet, right, say. 732 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 3: It's real. 733 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 4: People get used to it. 734 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 3: Almost more like, look at how the Obama thing got 735 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,720 Speaker 3: him going and started this whole file release. It's almost 736 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 3: as if he thought another country was going to do it, 737 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 3: he would want to make sure that it was him. 738 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 4: The real problem that I see with president like Trump 739 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 4: making a disclosure statement is would he actually be able 740 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 4: to get access to enough data that he would be 741 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 4: able to make a persuasive disclosure to the world. Because 742 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 4: you've got in the United States and probably the rest 743 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 4: of the world, like half the people would be like 744 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,879 Speaker 4: anything he says, They're not going to believe any because 745 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 4: that's just the reality. He's got a high hurdle. But 746 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 4: any president would. So with Trump, he would have have 747 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 4: to provide I would think some receipts, you know, he'd 748 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,879 Speaker 4: have to provide some information that people can check if 749 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 4: he is able to do that. If he turns out 750 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 4: to be able to do that, that would be pretty neat. 751 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,839 Speaker 4: But you know, keep in mind that Bill Clinton had 752 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 4: a story from many, many years ago where he and 753 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 4: this has actually come from his one of his buddies, 754 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 4: Webster Hubble, who he brought into the administration with him 755 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 4: back in the nineties. He put Hubble as number two 756 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 4: for Department of Justice or as yeah, right behind the 757 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,839 Speaker 4: Attorney General, and he said, I want you to find 758 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 4: out two things for me. This is in nineteen ninety three, 759 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 4: who killed Kennedy? And are there UFOs? And Hubble wrote 760 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 4: about this, he talked about it. Was he truthful? Who knows? 761 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,839 Speaker 4: But he said he got nowhere on both of those. 762 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 4: But of course you got to wonder how hard he 763 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 4: really tried to. 764 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good story though we're completely out of time, Richard, 765 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 3: but thank you so much for all your insights. I 766 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,359 Speaker 3: really appreciate it. I'm sure the utile and it does 767 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 3: as well. You can find Richard at Richard doolanmembers dot 768 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 3: com and check out next week's Beyond Contact show. Well, 769 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 3: we're going to take a deep dive into Richard's second 770 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 3: installment on USOS called a History of USOS Unidentified Submerged 771 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 3: Objects Volume two from nineteen seventy to nineteen eighty nine. 772 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 3: You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at CID 773 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 3: Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out contact indodesert 774 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,720 Speaker 3: dot com. Stay open minded in rational as we explore 775 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 3: the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to 776 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,800 Speaker 3: Coast Paranormal Podcast Network. 777 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,399 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 778 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 1: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. 779 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 3: Make sure and check out all 780 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: Our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going to 781 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com