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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from houst

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Deblie a chalk reboarding and I'm scared out. And we

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Speaker 1: recently did an episode on Delphine Lallie and her former

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Speaker 1: mansion at eleven forty Royal Street in New Orleans and

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Speaker 1: French Quarter, which some call the most haunted house in America,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about some of the spooky things that

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Speaker 1: people have seen and experience there. But of course, there

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Speaker 1: are many haunted houses throughout the country, in the world

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Speaker 1: that are historically haunted, so to speak, so we thought

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Speaker 1: it would be fun to cover a few more of

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Speaker 1: them in our own little Halloween Haunted House Tour. Now,

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Speaker 1: before you start emailing us already, we do realize that

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Speaker 1: talking about ghosts and hauntings on a history podcast maybe

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Speaker 1: a little bit controversial, since we did normally, of course,

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Speaker 1: try to focus on things that are indisputably based on

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Speaker 1: fact or at least theories. But we think that whether

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Speaker 1: you believe in ghosts or not, you can appreciate the

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Speaker 1: history behind some of these homes, regardless some of the

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Speaker 1: history that's even led to them being regarded as haunted.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty fun stuff in a lot of cases, or

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Speaker 1: at least spooky for Halloween. And in cases where history

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Speaker 1: does amount to little more than legend, we are going

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Speaker 1: to try to do our best to point that out,

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Speaker 1: as we did with the Laalaure episode of separating the

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Speaker 1: fact from the fiction. So with that, let's go ahead

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Speaker 1: and get started. The first haunted house on our list

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Speaker 1: has a backstory that's actually very similar to that of

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Speaker 1: the Lollay Mansion in that the creepy legend that's linked

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Speaker 1: to it has to do within this treatment of slaves

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Speaker 1: and is quite possibly largely embellished or even entirely made up.

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Speaker 1: The legend we're referring to is the legend of Antie Palmer,

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Speaker 1: also known as the White Witch, and that's not the

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Speaker 1: White Witch meaning the good Witch either, not at all,

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Speaker 1: not at all, so, as the story goes, Annie was

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Speaker 1: born in either England or Ireland sometime in about eighteen

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Speaker 1: o two, and when she was still a very young girl,

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Speaker 1: she moved to Haiti with her parents, and it was

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Speaker 1: in Haiti that she was said to have learned all

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Speaker 1: about voodoo from her Haitian nanny, who was supposedly a

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Speaker 1: voodoo priestess, and eventually Annie's parents were said to have

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Speaker 1: died while living in Haiti, and some believe that at

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Speaker 1: that point Annie was raised to adulthood by this voodoo priestess,

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Speaker 1: so steeped in voodoo from an earth heavily influenced by it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and Annie wanted wealth, and the way for her to

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Speaker 1: get that was to marry a rich guy. So at

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Speaker 1: about seventeen or eighteen years of age, she moved to

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Speaker 1: Jamaica to find herself a well to do husband. She

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Speaker 1: met John Palmer, owner of the Rose Hall Plantation, and

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Speaker 1: according to an article in Canadian Travel Press by Ian Stalker,

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Speaker 1: about two thousand slaves that lived on that plantation as well,

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Speaker 1: and John and Annie married in about eighteen twenty or so.

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Speaker 1: But Annie soon grew bored of her marriage, and a

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Speaker 1: few years in she was having affairs with slaves, perhaps

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Speaker 1: because they clashed about her indiscretions, or maybe just because

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Speaker 1: she didn't want to wait to inherit his fortune, Annie

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Speaker 1: killed John Palmer by poisoning his wine. According to The

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Speaker 1: Rough Guy to Jamaica. After that first marriage, she's also

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Speaker 1: said to have married three other guys and killed them

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Speaker 1: as well, something that really reminded me of Delphine's legend

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Speaker 1: as well. Meanwhile, though, she just kept having affairs and

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Speaker 1: and not just with slaves on the plantation, but also

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Speaker 1: with other employees there. Just because she was seducing all

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Speaker 1: of these folks, though, didn't mean that she was being

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Speaker 1: nice to them. Descriptions of Annie Palmer as a extremely

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Speaker 1: cruel slave owner rival descriptions of Delphine La Laurie like

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Speaker 1: I just meant that they seemed kind of like twins almost.

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Speaker 1: She would keep bear traps out in the woods to

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Speaker 1: discourage slaves from running away. She apparently liked to stand

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Speaker 1: out on a second floor balcony and watched slaves being

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Speaker 1: mistreated as if it were some sort of show down

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Speaker 1: at at the Colosseum, and she had her slaves kill

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Speaker 1: people for her too, and then had those slaves killed

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Speaker 1: by other slaves so that they couldn't talk and tell. Eventually, though,

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Speaker 1: as the legend goes, all this violence did come back

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Speaker 1: to her. She was strangled in her bed by the

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Speaker 1: grandfather of a pretty servant girl that she killed because

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Speaker 1: the girl happened to catch the eye of Annie's lover.

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Speaker 1: Annie was entombed in an above ground coffin in the

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Speaker 1: east garden of the house, which apparently is still there.

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Speaker 1: People tried to cast spells to confine her to the tomb,

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Speaker 1: but many believed that it didn't work, and that her

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Speaker 1: ghost still haunts Rose Hall, along with the ghosts of

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Speaker 1: all the people that she killed. So fast forward in

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Speaker 1: a few years and the family bought the home in

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Speaker 1: nineteen o i've according to a book called World's Most

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Speaker 1: Haunted Places by Jeff Bellinger, but they quickly moved out

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Speaker 1: when their maid died a mysterious death there. She apparently

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Speaker 1: fell from a balcony. She was pushed, they believed, by

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Speaker 1: some unknown force, and this was the same balcony that

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Speaker 1: you mentioned that Annie used to stand out on and

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Speaker 1: watch people get mistreated. So in nineteen then a couple

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Speaker 1: of entrepreneurs from the United States, John and Michelle Rawlins,

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Speaker 1: bought the place and restored it turned it into a museum,

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Speaker 1: a pub, gift shop, banquet hall. The bathrooms and gift

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Speaker 1: shop are apparently located in the dungeon of the house

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Speaker 1: um and today visitors and employees claimed that they can

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Speaker 1: hear our doors slamming, screaming, sometimes windows closed, and can't

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Speaker 1: be opened no matter how hard the staff try. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that's a kind of a symptom of

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Speaker 1: being in the Jamaican climate. I'm guessing if it's anything

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Speaker 1: like Georgia, but or ghosts, you never know. According to

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Speaker 1: Bellinger's book, to some staff members have even seen specters,

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Speaker 1: although it happens to be male employees who see them

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Speaker 1: more than women for some reason. Yeah, I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: what's going on there, except for maybe just that she

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Speaker 1: used to pick on guys a little more since that's

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Speaker 1: who she had her affairs with. But those who have

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Speaker 1: looked into the actual documented history of Annie Palmer, though,

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Speaker 1: have come up empty handed. It seems like she never

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Speaker 1: really even existed, at least not in the way people

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Speaker 1: think that she did. According to Polly Thomas's Rough Guide

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Speaker 1: to Jamaica that we mentioned, there was an Annie Palmer.

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Speaker 1: There's even a concrete grave for her if you take

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Speaker 1: a tour, But she doesn't seem to have any real

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Speaker 1: connection to this legend that we just recounted for you.

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Speaker 1: She might have been confused with Rosa Palmer, who was

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Speaker 1: the original mistress of Rose Hall. Rosa also had four husbands,

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Speaker 1: but she's remembered as being quite virtuous. Still many continue

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Speaker 1: to have these spooky experiences at the house and over

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Speaker 1: the years, mediums claimed to have sent something here. So

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Speaker 1: who knows what's going on. Maybe there's more to Rosa,

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Speaker 1: perhaps than the historical counts tell us. Now that would

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Speaker 1: be interesting, wouldn't it if some research went into Rosa's

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Speaker 1: life because of the supposed haunting. Yeah, if there's anything

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Speaker 1: to find, who knows. Okay, So that was a that

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Speaker 1: was a good spooky start to this, But we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get even more historical, I think for the next one.

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Speaker 1: The next entry, which is Blickling Hall, is got some

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Speaker 1: familiar some familiar names in it, people who popped up

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Speaker 1: on the podcast before. Yeah, someone that I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of listeners will be familiar with, and that's Anne

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Speaker 1: Boleyn Henry the eighth second wife and mother of Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: the first And how she said to haunt is Blickling Hall,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned in Norfolk, England, and that's her childhood home.

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Speaker 1: So just a little background on boln. She was born

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Speaker 1: about fifteen o seven, the daughter of Sir Thomas Boleyn,

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Speaker 1: and she was introduced to the English court in fifty

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Speaker 1: two of course, King Henry the Eighth had already had

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Speaker 1: an affair with Anne's older sister, but when he met Anne,

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Speaker 1: he fell in love with her and however, refused to

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Speaker 1: become his mistress. So Henry started the process of divorcing

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Speaker 1: Catherine of Aragon, and ultimately, after many many years went

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Speaker 1: by and became pregnant with Elizabeth the First, and at

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Speaker 1: that point it really sped the divorce up with Catherine

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Speaker 1: and we're secretly married by June of fifteen thirty three

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Speaker 1: and was crowned Queen. But I mean, everybody knows where

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Speaker 1: this story goes. After miscarrying a son and wasn't able

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Speaker 1: to produce a male heir, that was of course what

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Speaker 1: Henry the eighth really wanted, and so with various political

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Speaker 1: intrigues going on, he ultimately had her charged with adultery

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Speaker 1: and incest and she was beheaded for this May nineteen,

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Speaker 1: fifteen thirty six. So good grounds, i'd say for a haunting, yes,

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Speaker 1: And every year on the anniversary of her death, Anne's

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Speaker 1: headless ghost is said to visit Blickling Hall in a

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Speaker 1: carriage driven by a horse with a headless rider. She

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Speaker 1: supposedly holds her head on her lap during these visits,

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Speaker 1: so pretty spooky. Some other ghosts are said to haunt

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Speaker 1: the place to Anne's father, Sir Thomas, who, according to

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Speaker 1: an article by Nick McDermott in The Daily Mail, is

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Speaker 1: supposedly cursed for doing nothing to save his daughter. Other

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Speaker 1: ghosts that tend to frequent Blickling Hall include Sir John Fastolf,

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Speaker 1: a fifteenth century night who sold the house to Sir Thomas,

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Speaker 1: and he was Shakespeare's false staff inspiration. Suddenly these hauntings

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Speaker 1: are starting to sound a little more fun to me.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if if the real life false staff is

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Speaker 1: hanging around, that sounds better than the headless rider in

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Speaker 1: the carriage and the head on the lap, that's true.

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Speaker 1: I see that like Marry Potter a little bit the

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Speaker 1: fun ghost, you know, I get it. I get it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I see where you're going. Another ghostly resident of Blickling

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Speaker 1: Hall is Sir Henry Hobart, who was killed in a

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Speaker 1: duel there in s so visitors reports seeing them, especially

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Speaker 1: close to May nineteen. So for some reason they all

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Speaker 1: kind of come around during the anniversary of and beheading.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting and then, according to a two thousand seven

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Speaker 1: article in the Telegraph, volunteers who work at Blickling Hall

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Speaker 1: have spotted some other unusual things going on at the house,

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Speaker 1: including a gray lady who sometimes comes through the wall

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Speaker 1: and then disappears again. And in two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: the National Trust actually named Blickling Hall number one on

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Speaker 1: its list of Britain's most haunted historic property. So clearly

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Speaker 1: some of these stories have gotten some some traction over

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Speaker 1: the year. Yeah, and according to Famous Ghosts and Haunted

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Speaker 1: Places by Gordon Jay Lynch, Diane Canwell and Jonathan Sutherland,

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Speaker 1: and Administrator the National Trust supposedly saw Ann's ghost there

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Speaker 1: in n wearing a long gray gown with a white

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Speaker 1: lace collar, and he spoke to her. He asked her

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Speaker 1: if he could help her, and she replied, quote that

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Speaker 1: for which I seek has long since gone. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I should say something serious there since that is

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Speaker 1: a quote, But I mean good move on Ann's part.

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Speaker 1: She knew the right people to talk to. She did

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Speaker 1: go app here before the administer for the National Trust,

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Speaker 1: not just some Joe Blow visiting the palace. Right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So moving on the next entry on our list, We're

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Speaker 1: gonna head south for it. It's considered one of the

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Speaker 1: most haunted houses in Australia and it's located in June

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Speaker 1: in New South Wales, uh Of, an area of the

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Speaker 1: country we talked about quite a bit last year with

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Speaker 1: all of our Outlaws. It was built in the late

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, around eighteen seventy six or so as the

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Speaker 1: home of the Crawley family. So Christopher Crawley had acquired

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Speaker 1: the land it was built on through the Robertson Land

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Speaker 1: Act of eighteen sixty one, and act that basically tried

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Speaker 1: to get rid of squatters in the area by allowing

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Speaker 1: free selectors to purchase land for a quarter of the

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Speaker 1: purchase price as long as the purchaser intended to live

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Speaker 1: on the land. This reminded me a lot of the

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Speaker 1: Outlaw episode. But Christopher and his wife Elizabeth, through this

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Speaker 1: process got a whole lot of land under the Act.

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Speaker 1: And even though they had a lot of land initially

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Speaker 1: they kind of struggled at trying to farm it. For

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Speaker 1: a couple of years. They lived in a little cottage

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Speaker 1: on the homestead, didn't have a whole lot of luck.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't until the Great Southern Railway started up in

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Speaker 1: about eighteen seventy eight that their fortunes finally began to

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Speaker 1: turn around. The Crawley's opened a hotel right across from

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Speaker 1: the railway station and became very wealthy and bought up

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Speaker 1: a lot more land in the area. They built a

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Speaker 1: grander house on their property as their wealth brought them

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Speaker 1: better standing in the community. I think it was about

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighty four so that that happened. But that old

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Speaker 1: saying that money can't buy you happiness, that old clich

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Speaker 1: saying it truly does apply here. Several unfortunate events happened

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Speaker 1: at the homestead and to the family that ultimately added

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Speaker 1: up to a rather troubled history. Yeah. The first one

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Speaker 1: is a true tragedy. A servant dropped the Crawley's daughter, Ethel,

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Speaker 1: who was only an infant at the time, down a staircase,

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Speaker 1: and the little girl was killed by the fall. Afterward,

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Speaker 1: the servant chocked up the fall to some sort of

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Speaker 1: unseen for she said that Ethel had been pushed out

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Speaker 1: of her arms by some power she she couldn't see

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Speaker 1: or know. They had seven other children who survived, but

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Speaker 1: in nine Christopher Crawley died at the age of sixty

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Speaker 1: nine from heart failure after getting an infection, and after

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Speaker 1: this Elizabeth Crawley became something of a recluse. Just as

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Speaker 1: an aside for you here, she's said to have been

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Speaker 1: shunned by locals because of her aboriginal hairriage. So maybe

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Speaker 1: this had something to do with her hiding out at

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Speaker 1: home to not just the fact that she was grieving

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Speaker 1: about her husband. We're not entirely sure they're but she

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Speaker 1: supposedly left the homestead only twice in her remaining twenty

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Speaker 1: three years of life. There's kind of a darker side

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Speaker 1: of this this these years alone though in the house.

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Speaker 1: A lot of sources say that Mrs Crawley started acting

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Speaker 1: very cruel towards her servants after her husband's death. There

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Speaker 1: are some sources, including Zanthi Kleinig's article in the Daily Telegraph,

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Speaker 1: that suggests that it was both Mr and Mrs Crawley

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Speaker 1: who were pretty tough on their servants, even saying they

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Speaker 1: quote ruled their home with an iron fist, but it

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Speaker 1: might have been Mrs Crawley. According to an article by

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Speaker 1: Dana Platter in The Sunday Mail, Mrs Crawley also always

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Speaker 1: wore black dresses, a lace cap with a cape, and

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Speaker 1: a beated collar. All things that sound to me like

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Speaker 1: distinctive ghost outfits. That's a very good point you have there,

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Speaker 1: But there were several other deaths and acts of cruelty

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Speaker 1: that occurred while Mrs Crawley was living in the house.

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Speaker 1: There was a maid who fell from a balcony and died.

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Speaker 1: According to Klining, the maid was said to be pregnant,

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Speaker 1: so it's unclear whether she was pushed or committed suicide

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Speaker 1: in this instance. There was also a mentally impaired man,

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Speaker 1: supposedly the housekeeper's son, who was chained up outside of

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Speaker 1: the main house and what used to be used as

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Speaker 1: a dairy room for almost forty years. In in in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty one, the caretaker of the homestead was shot dead,

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Speaker 1: also in that dairy room, by a local kid who

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Speaker 1: would watched the film Psycho three times before heading up there.

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Speaker 1: That's a creepy modern addition to the story. Elizabeth Crawley,

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Speaker 1: though died and the rest of the family left the

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Speaker 1: house by the late nineteen forties. But even though the

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Speaker 1: house was put up on the market, it failed to

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Speaker 1: sell for a very long time, which left it open

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Speaker 1: for looters and vandals who really took their toll on

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Speaker 1: what had once been considered a beautiful home, so the

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00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 1: house was in pretty bad shape when Reginald Ryan and

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Speaker 1: his wife Olive finally bought the place in nineteen sixty three,

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Speaker 1: and once they were there they started noticing some pretty

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Speaker 1: strange stuff too. For example, according to Platter's article, they

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Speaker 1: drove up the long driveway one night and saw that

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Speaker 1: basically all the lights in the house were on. But

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Speaker 1: by the time that they had pulled up to the house,

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00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,680
Speaker 1: all the lights went off, and they heard sounds of kids, voices,

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Speaker 1: figures that weren't really there. But apparently this was not

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Speaker 1: a turn off for this new property they had bought.

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Speaker 1: They weren't too bothered by it, and instead they stayed.

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00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,400
Speaker 1: They authentically restored the property, and eventually they opened the

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Speaker 1: house for ghost tours and they themselves acted as as

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Speaker 1: tour guides and still do. I think. In Plotter's article,

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Speaker 1: Ryan actually said quote it changed my life, meaning the

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Speaker 1: house changed his life from the day I saw it.

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Speaker 1: I love of this place. They'll have to take me

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Speaker 1: out feet first. I'm going to be the next ghost.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, I think if you're going to live

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Speaker 1: in a dream, yeah, yeah, that's the right attitude to

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Speaker 1: have their So all told, there are said to be

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Speaker 1: up to seven ghosts residing at the homestead. A man

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Speaker 1: in a brown suit with a long white beard has

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Speaker 1: been spotted, for example, and assumed to be Mr Crawley.

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Speaker 1: Mrs Crawley is thought to be hanging around as well,

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Speaker 1: and apparently makes her presence known in the homes drawing room.

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Speaker 1: In the past, she's done this by taking down a

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Speaker 1: giant tapestry there. I'm not sure that's what I mean

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Speaker 1: by her her distinctive outfit. Then that would be good

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00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,760
Speaker 1: to establish that for a few years before you come

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Speaker 1: back as a ghost. Then people will know who you are, like, oh,

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00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,640
Speaker 1: that's yep, that's her. So there are supposedly some other

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00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,920
Speaker 1: spooky things that sort of tip people off to paranormal

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00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 1: activity in the house, and that's these random cold spots

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Speaker 1: as you walk through the house. Also, several visitors have

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Speaker 1: experienced strange asthma attacks and this kind of just feeling

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00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,760
Speaker 1: like they are struggling to breathe in certain spots and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden it passes almost as quickly

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Speaker 1: as it came. On the corridor on the second floor.

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Speaker 1: I think is an example of one of the places

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Speaker 1: where this happens a lot to people. Some people also

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00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 1: hear piano music, but there's not a piano in the house,

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Speaker 1: And according to Clinix article, guests sometimes her kids playing

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Speaker 1: out back around four am, and the owner Ryan, he

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Speaker 1: says it's always around four am for some reason, but

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Speaker 1: he doesn't know why. It's those little things like that

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00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 1: that that seemed more disturbing than like there's false staff

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Speaker 1: walking through. Okay, so our our next entry is a

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Speaker 1: truly upsetting story. And as you've probably noticed by now,

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Speaker 1: a common theme with these historical haunted homes is tragedy

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Speaker 1: and and the next entry on this list is really

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Speaker 1: a prime example of that. So we'll start with the

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Speaker 1: sad event itself. On June nine, Joe and Sarah Moore

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Speaker 1: and their four kids head out to a service at

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Speaker 1: their Presbyterian church in Vliska, Iowa. Vliska at this point

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Speaker 1: is a quiet little town. People who live there, for example,

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Speaker 1: lither doors unlocked, that sort of thing. According to a

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Speaker 1: Salon dot com article by Nick kawal Chick, the Iowa

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00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 1: Touring Atlas had just named Valiska quote one of the

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Speaker 1: finest cities in the state. So it was thought of

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Speaker 1: as a nice little town, maybe even someplace you would

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Speaker 1: want to go visit. The Moor's return home that night,

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Speaker 1: oh changed all of that. They came home with two

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Speaker 1: other kids in tow, Lena and Iina Stillinger, who were

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Speaker 1: friends of the More kids. The Stillingers were going to

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00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 1: be sleeping over that night. No one's quite sure what

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00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: happened after that, but the next morning, a neighbor named

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Speaker 1: Mary Peckham, who is sixty three years old around that time,

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00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 1: notices that the More house is and usually quiet. Joe

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00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 1: Moore at that time ran a farm equipment store and

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00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 1: typically got up pretty early to do chores before heading

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00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,719
Speaker 1: to work, and Sarah usually got the kids up early,

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Speaker 1: and since the eldest kid was only eleven, as you

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Speaker 1: would imagine, things get pretty noisy. It's not at all quiet,

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Speaker 1: so Mary Peckham goes over and knocks on the door.

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Speaker 1: After a while, when she doesn't hear anything, she thinks

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Speaker 1: this is weird, so she goes to check it out.

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Speaker 1: No one comes to the door, and she gets more concerned. Yeah,

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00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 1: so eventually Joe's brother and one of his employees come

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00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,439
Speaker 1: over looking for him, come search the house and what

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00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 1: they find there when they go inside is truly horrifying.

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00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 1: Every person in the house is still in bed, but

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00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 1: they've all been bludgeoned to death, their skulls crushed by

359
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 1: an axe. And of course, a story like this became

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00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 1: national reinforcements were called in to investigate, but the killer

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00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:00,400
Speaker 1: was never caught, even though some Baliska residents it become

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00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: suspects and their reputations never quite recovered from the questioning.

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Speaker 1: With the real story still shrouded in mystery, it's easy

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00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: to understand why people have continued to visit this house

365
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 1: over the years and continue to be interested in it.

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Speaker 1: Several paranormal investigators have visited as well and believe that

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00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: they've found proof of paranormal activity there. So you can

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00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 1: also check out this house. They have tours, they have sleepovers,

369
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: You can spend the night there if you want to.

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00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: Some things that people have experienced while their children's voices,

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00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: falling lamps, flying objects. In Kalchis article, he talks to

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00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: a couple of ghost hunters who say that they've actually

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Speaker 1: felt contact with the spirits of the victims. One had

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Speaker 1: been pushed, for example, into a door jam. Another said

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00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: when you wear shorts in the summer. You can feel

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00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 1: the kids playing with your legs kind of. There's another

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00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 1: side of this, though, the hauntings, and in the book

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00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: Haunted Houses by Dinah Williams, she suggests that the main

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00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 1: spirit who haunts the house isn't that of little kids

380
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 1: messing with your toes, it's that of the killer. And

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00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: she writes that some ghost hunters have seen a ghostly

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00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 1: fog moving from room to room, like the killer must

383
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: have done that night. Some have also heard the sound

384
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: of dripping blood. So it I think that was the

385
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,199
Speaker 1: one of the stranger aspects of the haunting side of

386
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: this story that people seem to believe or experience so

387
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: different different kinds of things in this home. So to

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00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: end on a somewhat brighter note, because that last story

389
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: was pretty disturbing and a scary haunting also, and since

390
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Speaker 1: it's an election year here in the US, we're going

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Speaker 1: to finish off our Haunted House tour with one of

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Speaker 1: America's the most famous haunted houses, and that is the

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Speaker 1: White House. The White House, of course, has been the

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00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: residence of US presidents since eighteen hundred and during John

395
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 1: Adams term, the US capital moved from Philadelphia to Washington,

396
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: d C. And so President Adams and his wife Abigail

397
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: were actually the first to move into Pennsylvania Avenue, but

398
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 1: the home wasn't entirely finished when they got there. That's

399
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: where this haunting begin So, according to Haunted America by

400
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: Michael Norman and Best Scott, Ablicail Adams had a pretty

401
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 1: good attitude about living in this unfinished home. She still

402
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,199
Speaker 1: continued to entertain to throw dinner parties even with the

403
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: construction going on all around her. She did have to

404
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: get pretty creative though, when it came to getting chores done,

405
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 1: especially the laundry, and that's because most of the rooms

406
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 1: at that time were just too cold or damp to

407
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: dry clothes in. So Mrs Adams decided that the east

408
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: room was the driest place in the house and therefore

409
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 1: the best place to hang her laundry. Her ghost is

410
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: said to be seen hurrying toward the east room wearing

411
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: her signature cap and lay shawl, with her arms outstretched

412
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: as if she's carrying laundry, so much like false staff.

413
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: I would think that that would be kind of an

414
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: okay one to see. I wouldn't mind seeing how Gil

415
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: Adams doing her laundry, you know, maybe toss her my

416
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: hoodie or something to wash along with the rest of

417
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: her stuff. Don't mix it with the whites and colors, Abigail.

418
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: But it's funny, though, to imagine that she would spend

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00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: her her afterlife washing laundry. How many people do you

420
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: think would do that? I wonder I wouldn't. I don't

421
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: even spend my life doing laundry. Several other notable ghosts

422
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: that have been sited at the White House over the years,

423
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: among them President Andrew Jackson's ghost. He's supposedly still miffed

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00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: about losing that election to John Quincy Adams in four

425
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: and according to Norman and Scott's book, Mary Todd Lincoln

426
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: claimed that she could hear Jackson stomping around and swearing

427
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: in the corridors, and this was twenty years after Jackson's death.

428
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: And then the Rose Room, which was Jackson's bedroom, is

429
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 1: thought by many to be the most haunted room in

430
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: the White House. Lillian Rogers Part who was a seamstress

431
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: who worked in the White House for thirty years and

432
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: wrote a book about it in nineteen sixty one, claimed

433
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 1: that she had the super spooky experience in the Rose room.

434
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 1: She was in there hemming a bedspread, and she said

435
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: that she felt Jackson leaning over her. She ended up

436
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,719
Speaker 1: being too scared to turn around and look. But another

437
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: setting you have to wonder too. If Jackson is hanging

438
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: around they're upset about losing to John Quincy Adams, what

439
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: happens when he runs into Jqu's mom doing laundry. That's

440
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: true awkward to say the least. Of course, there are

441
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: other people who are unrelated to this family that you

442
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: might see in a ghost like form, most notably President Lincoln.

443
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: He's another White House ghost and perhaps it's most famous.

444
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: People have spotted him walking around the halls and in

445
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: the Lincoln Bedroom, which used to be his office when

446
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: he was president. Some just say that they feel his presence,

447
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: especially during times of national cry sis. But according to

448
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 1: history dot com, Grace Coolidge, wife of President Calvin Coolidge,

449
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 1: was the first to say that she had actually seen

450
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: Lincoln's ghost standing and looking out a window of the

451
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: Oval office. And then Winston Churchill, And this has to

452
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: be the craziest detail in the show, the very famous

453
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 1: Lincoln siting Winston Churchill after staying in the White House

454
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: during World War two told the story of walking into

455
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: his room naked, smoking a cigar after his evening bath

456
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: and seeing Lincoln sitting there by the fireplace. I mean,

457
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: what a way to end this show. What a way

458
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: to meet President Lincoln. There have been other ghost sighted

459
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: in the White House as well, not just presidents and

460
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: not just first ladies. The ghost of Annie Sarat, whose

461
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: mother was executed for her involvement in the Lincoln assassination,

462
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: and the ghost of a British soldier who helps at

463
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: the White House on fire. In way more awkward encounters here,

464
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: Annie Sara and Lincoln. I mean, yeah, there's potential for

465
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: a lot of awkward momentoes have to work it out.

466
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: I mean, they might have problems with each other if

467
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: you consider they have, you know, all these possible relationships

468
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: in life and then connections beyond life. They just have

469
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: to deal with it. I guess, well, that's why they're ghosts,

470
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: right the people. Yeah, but there they have issues to

471
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: work out, so that's why they're still hanging around. So

472
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,239
Speaker 1: maybe that's why they're all there together. They want to

473
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: work it out somehow, or maybe that's just too optimistic.

474
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: Who knows. Well, it's been fun talking about haunted houses.

475
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we discussed the type that you tour for

476
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: a scare during Halloween in one of our recent episodes.

477
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: But there is some some neat history behind a lot

478
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: of these houses, and I just think it's cool that

479
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: they get saved too. You know. Sometimes it's this weird

480
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: story that saves a historic building, which for for preservation,

481
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: you know. So that's kind of neat to think about

482
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: a lot of houses like this, Um, the abandoned one

483
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: in Australia ends up with having a second life because

484
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: it can be turned into a tourist attraction. Yeah, and

485
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: it makes people interested in history, which is something we're

486
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: always for. It does. Actually, most of these are ones

487
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: that listeners have suggested to us before, and I think

488
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: that's largely in part because they've visited these places and

489
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: they've heard these stories and ghost tours or even from

490
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: just regular tour guides who toss out a tale of

491
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: a ghost every now and then. Um, So it's clearly captivating. Yeah,

492
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: and even if you find out that the stories aren't

493
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: entirely true, maybe they have some holes in them, maybe

494
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: they have a huge hole in them, or the story

495
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: is completely false, it's still interesting. It's still fun to

496
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: learn the legend and it, you know, it creates an

497
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: opportunity to find out more about the real history that's there.

498
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: So we have some Halloween related mail here, listener Muriel,

499
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: and it has to do with a episode that actually

500
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: you and Kristen did. I wasn't in on this one,

501
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: the tricker treating one. Yeah, I missed out. I do

502
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: love trick or treating, but you guys got to cover that,

503
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: and Kristen did an excellent job. It was very fun

504
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: co hosting with Kristen and all the other folks too.

505
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: But it looks like I get to read the letter

506
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: from listener Muriel. She says, my husband and I enjoyed

507
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: listening to your brief history of tricker treating, especially on

508
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: how today's traditions have evolved from agent customs. In the podcast,

509
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: you mentioned a couple of times that poison and candy

510
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: is just an urban legend. We both instantly thought of

511
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: a time when it was, unfortunately not an urban legend.

512
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: We lived in Houston, Texas around the time in nineteen

513
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: seventy four when Ronald Clark O'Brien, a father in the

514
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: Houston suburb of Deer Park, was convicted of putting poison

515
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: in candy pixie sticks on Halloween and handing them out.

516
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: He was charged with killing his own eight year old

517
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: son in an effort to collect insurance money. Apparently, the

518
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: poison candy was handed out to at least four their children,

519
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: none of whom ate it before the police were able

520
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: to retrieve it. One boy was found asleep in bed

521
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: later that night cradling the poison pixie sticks in his arms.

522
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: He had been unable to pry it open before he

523
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: fell asleep. Oh goodness. Following that horrific incident, trick or

524
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: treating was not done anywhere around the Houston area. Schools

525
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: held Halloween carnivals instead, and some malls encourage little ones

526
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: to trick or treat store to store, O'Brien was dubbed

527
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: the man who killed Halloween. Wow. So that was a

528
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,959
Speaker 1: very sad, interesting follow up to the trick or treating episode,

529
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: and especially since we've talked about poison in this episode.

530
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: Too scary to think about it is. I mean, it's

531
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: one of those things that even if you went through

532
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: your candy, would you have suspected that it was in there? Yeah,

533
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: now we're going to scare everyone. Sorry, now, we didn't

534
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: mean to do that, so yeah, anyway, it was just

535
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: the point we we did want to address since we

536
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: talked about that large being an urban legend and because

537
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: it is unfortunately a part of our trigger treating history

538
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: or should be. So thank you guys who wrote in

539
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: about that, and on a lighter note too, thank you

540
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: guys all of you who wrote in to tell us

541
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: about your uni suff boxes. Kristen and I were pondering

542
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: over whether that's still a thing and when it was

543
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: a thing, because we didn't really remember it from our

544
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: own trigger treating days, but we have heard from so

545
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: many people who talk about they did the unisef boxes

546
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: every year and always got a great response. So that's

547
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: a That's a nicer way to close out this Halloween

548
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: podcast get people in a celebratory mood, is go visit

549
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: a haunted house, have some fun trick or treat. Happy Halloween. Yeah,

550
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: and if you have some other Halloween stories that you'd

551
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: like to share with us, feel free to write to us.

552
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: We're at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. We're also

553
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mist in history, and we're on Facebook

554
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: and we do have a great article on haunted houses.

555
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: I think we mentioned and it in our earlier episode,

556
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: but because some of these hauntings did remind us of

557
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: Bill Pheela Laurie so much, it seems appropriate to throw

558
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: it out there again, right. We have an article called

559
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: top ten Haunted Houses and it includes some of the

560
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: ones we mentioned today as well some other ones that

561
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: you might be interested in, so you should check that out.

562
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: We also have a whole article on the Winchester Mystery

563
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: House's article crazy House. Yeah, I think it's why does

564
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: the Winchester Mystery House have Stairs that lead Nowhere? By

565
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: Molly Edmund By Molly Edmunds our friend. So if you'd

566
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: like to check that out, you can look it up

567
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: on our homepage at www dot house stuff works dot

568
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

569
00:32:48,440 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com? Do do do

570
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: you me