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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Welcome Back to the Book of Joe Podcast with Me,

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Speaker 1: Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of things I want to dive into. It's a really

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Speaker 1: interesting time of year as we turned a page into September,

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Speaker 1: Pennant races in full swing and a lot of young

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Speaker 1: players hitting the wall, a lot of pictures getting you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to say hurt, but especially fatigue this

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Speaker 1: time of year. But we have to start with sho

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Speaker 1: Hey Otani because once again it's found that he has

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Speaker 1: a tear in the UCL second time in five years. Listen,

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Speaker 1: I know how much you know what makes this guy

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Speaker 1: tick Joe and for me, I look at Otani and

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Speaker 1: a lot of people have speculated on how this harms

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Speaker 1: his free agency. I actually don't think it's going to

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Speaker 1: hurt his free agency that much. I think this guy

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Speaker 1: will be so much in demand. You know, show hey.

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Speaker 1: He loves to play the game of baseball. He is

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Speaker 1: going to pitch again, folks. It won't be until twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five, but I don't see this guy giving up

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Speaker 1: that side of the game. He loves this game, and

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Speaker 1: he's gone through this before.

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Speaker 2: This is a setback.

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Speaker 1: But when you're talking about signing Shohei Otani for the

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Speaker 1: next eight, nine, ten, eleven years, he's going to pitch

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Speaker 1: and hit for somebody again. So does the final number

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Speaker 1: that he signs for come down a little bit?

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Speaker 2: I mean, maybe he's not.

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Speaker 1: Going to pitch in twenty twenty four, so maybe a

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Speaker 1: factor that probably misses the first month hitting as a

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Speaker 1: DH in twenty twenty four, but he's still going to

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Speaker 1: hit the market as an Aaron Judge type hitter who's

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Speaker 1: younger than Aaron Judge when Judge hit free agency, and

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Speaker 1: with the possibility you're getting an ACE and I think

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Speaker 1: a probability starting in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: So that's my take. Joe, you know what makes this

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Speaker 2: guy tick?

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Speaker 1: Give me kind of your take when you first heard

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Speaker 1: about show Hey going down and not pitching for the

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Speaker 1: rest of this year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's awful.

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Speaker 4: I mean, he's having the probably the most historic season

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Speaker 4: every surpassing things he's done in the past.

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Speaker 3: So it's too bad with that.

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Speaker 4: The industry needs him, They love him, the fans love him.

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Speaker 4: What he's done to recreate interest in our game is incomparable. Actually,

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Speaker 4: it's just everything that he's done.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, all of that.

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Speaker 4: Having said all that is moving it forward. Okay, I'm

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Speaker 4: just a little surprised a little bit that he continuing

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Speaker 4: to hit based on what may happen next year. In

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Speaker 4: other words, I would think that if you were there

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Speaker 4: to shut it down now, if in fact he needs

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Speaker 4: surgery to do that, now shut it down now, then

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Speaker 4: permit him at least to hit next year, knowing that

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Speaker 4: he's not going to pitch next year. So there's something

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Speaker 4: to be said about that. The longer he waits, he

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Speaker 4: may miss the first part of the year, and again,

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Speaker 4: will that impact his worth?

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 4: When it comes to evaluating how much you want to

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Speaker 4: pay him next year, there might be some impact, like

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Speaker 4: you suggested, but there also may be like these incredible

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Speaker 4: amount of incentives built into his contract for when he

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Speaker 4: comes back as a pitcher.

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Speaker 3: Now, I know you've.

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Speaker 4: Said that, and I believe that he will pitching him,

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Speaker 4: but there's still some considerations there because when he came

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Speaker 4: back after the first one, I saw him in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 4: and it's not like he just got back on a

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Speaker 4: horse and just started throwing the ball like he had

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Speaker 4: in the past, So even though he comes back, there

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Speaker 4: still might be a building period to that. I know

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Speaker 4: it's twenty twenty five, and maybe he doesn't pitch like

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Speaker 4: he can until the middle of that year. So there's

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Speaker 4: a lot of uncertainties about this. He's still going to

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Speaker 4: be great. He's going to come back and hit and

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Speaker 4: pitch again. Yes, how do you determine what you want

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Speaker 4: to give him for that? I think there's going to

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Speaker 4: be a lot of people at organizations clamoring around same numbers,

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Speaker 4: But then there may be one outlier that just goes

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Speaker 4: above and be honest, is you know the heck with

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Speaker 4: that we want him, We're going to pay him like

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Speaker 4: he's well. I think you have to evaluate him, you know,

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Speaker 4: two ways he's not well. Then if there's some people

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Speaker 4: that are going to say, we're just gonna evaluate him

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Speaker 4: as though he's well because we believe he's going to

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Speaker 4: be that again and we want him. So there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of uncertainty with this, But he will be back.

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Speaker 4: He'll be back as a hitter and a pitcher and

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Speaker 4: they'll do both really well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you do make a good point, Joe, about when

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Speaker 1: these guys come back off these surgeries, We should not

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Speaker 1: expect them to just hit the ground running, right, And

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Speaker 1: I think it's especially true with second Tommy John surgeries.

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Speaker 1: Now we don't know for sure if he's going to

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Speaker 1: have one. He does have a tear, so let's assume

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Speaker 1: for the moment that there is a surgery coming for

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Speaker 1: show Hey. Those are called revisions, these second Tommy John surgeries,

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Speaker 1: and the statistics will tell you that the recovery period

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Speaker 1: is longer generally about an average of twenty one months,

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Speaker 1: believe it or not, and that the rate of return

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Speaker 1: to the same level of play is much lower after

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Speaker 1: the second Tommy John surgery than the first Tommy John surgery.

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Speaker 1: And generally you're also going to find that the amount

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Speaker 1: of workload a pitcher can take after the second Tommy

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Speaker 1: John surgery is lower. You're seeing that with a guy

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Speaker 1: like Nathan Ivaldi. Yes, he's pitching again with the second

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Speaker 1: Tommy John surgery. He's had one qualified season since his

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Speaker 1: second Tommy John surgery. So there is an attrition factor,

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Speaker 1: there's no question about it. But again, I just think

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Speaker 1: Shohey is such a fantastic hitter.

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Speaker 2: He's such a gait attraction.

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Speaker 1: Like really, the game has not seen in a very

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Speaker 1: long time that the teams that want shohey Atani or

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Speaker 1: the teams that wanted him before this tour, they still

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Speaker 1: want him and the price is still going to get

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Speaker 1: really high.

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Speaker 4: Well, I agree with all that, it's just a matter

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Speaker 4: of how much do they want to risk these different groups,

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Speaker 4: and I'm sure they're going to be privy to all

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Speaker 4: this Stocker information. How bad is this terror?

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Speaker 3: And that's another thing. I mean, like.

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Speaker 4: The fact that there's not been revealed that he needs

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Speaker 4: surgery or not. I mean, how often do guys not

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Speaker 4: get surgery with something like this and event surely returned

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Speaker 4: to what they had been. I I don't even know

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Speaker 4: what that number might be, but it's got to be low,

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Speaker 4: so you almost have to assume surge is going to occur.

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Speaker 4: And again just to wait, wait, wait, that's the part

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Speaker 4: I don't quite get to mean. I think there are

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Speaker 4: like eleven out on the wild card or something like

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Speaker 4: that right now. And I know, you know, just from

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Speaker 4: his perspective, he's so proud and maybe chasing numbers that

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Speaker 4: had not been done before. Possibly, But I'm just be

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Speaker 4: curious representation wise, what the discussions, like, what are the

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Speaker 4: reasons to continue along this avenue without really prepping for

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Speaker 4: the future. I'm just curious about that, even to the

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Speaker 4: point where I guess he refused an MRI originally. Whatever

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Speaker 4: the the different things I'm hearing that he had the MRIs,

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Speaker 4: you know, possibly got a tear, and he's still playing.

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Speaker 4: All these things just are a little bit and congruent

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Speaker 4: to me based on my experiences in the past.

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Speaker 3: So he sounds like he's got a big.

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Speaker 4: Voice in what's going on right now, which I guess

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Speaker 4: is appropriate because it's him, it's his it's his career,

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Speaker 4: and he's the best. So but I still believe everything

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Speaker 4: I'm hearing is best suited for him to stop playing

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Speaker 4: right now, get this thing done.

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Speaker 3: And get back to being Showhy as soon as possible.

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Speaker 1: Well, Joe, you know, you know firsthand, you lived it.

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Speaker 1: Show Hey's going to do what he wants to do.

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Speaker 1: He's on his own program, and yes, he wants to play.

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Speaker 1: It's as simple as that. And you look at the

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Speaker 1: standings and you say, you know, listen, if you're being

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Speaker 1: really honest, these games are not meaningful for the Angels, right,

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Speaker 1: and why not go ahead and get it.

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Speaker 2: But I do think it's this simple.

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Speaker 1: He loves to play the game of baseball, whether that's

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Speaker 1: chasing numbers or just being out there and playing baseball.

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Speaker 1: He wants to continue to do that while he can,

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Speaker 1: and he can right now as a hitter. Now, the

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Speaker 1: last time this happened, he had his Tommy John surgery

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Speaker 1: on October one and he didn't get back into the

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Speaker 1: lineup until sometime in May the following year. So yes,

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Speaker 1: by continuing to play, let's say he plays September, right,

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Speaker 1: he's actually punting April of next year for whoever his

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Speaker 1: next team is. And that's assuming all things well as

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Speaker 1: they did last time, agreed.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's that's what we're talking about here. It's

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Speaker 4: got to be like a multi layered conversation would show

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Speaker 4: the Angels front office and.

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Speaker 3: Of course his representation.

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Speaker 4: I think primarily right now it's between show Hey and representation,

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Speaker 4: even more so than the organization itself, based on the

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Speaker 4: looming free agency. So it's again typically with him, it's

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Speaker 4: like it's a first time situation.

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Speaker 3: There's really no precedent to all of this.

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Speaker 4: And again, I just listen, I want what's best for him.

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Speaker 4: I want him to continue to do this all baseball

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Speaker 4: does so.

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Speaker 3: And let me.

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Speaker 4: Conclude with this, I mean, he's really smart. I think

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Speaker 4: that part of this is even though they are out

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Speaker 4: of it, he doesn't think that they're out of it completely.

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Speaker 4: So if he gets to the point where he's totally

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Speaker 4: convinced that they're done, that he may choose to do

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Speaker 4: something else. I just he's so loyal to his group

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Speaker 4: and interact so well with the group, and he so

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Speaker 4: much wants to win.

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Speaker 3: Think think that's still part of the equation to him.

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Speaker 1: Well, that leads us to another subject, and we're talking

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Speaker 1: about pitching injuries, Joe, and that is pitching development and

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Speaker 1: trying to keep these guys healthy.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: Another news of last week, of course, we had Stephen

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Speaker 1: Strasburg un officially announcing his retirement from the game. And

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Speaker 1: we all know famously the operations shutdown for Steven Strasburg

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Speaker 1: when the Nationals sat him down as a young pitcher

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Speaker 1: because they did not want to keep adding on innings

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Speaker 1: to his yearly jump. And that was a team that

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Speaker 1: was in the postseason and they did so without Stephen

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Speaker 1: Strasburg for preventative reasons. We also saw Tony Gonsolin of

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Speaker 1: the LA Dodgers now shut down Tommy John surgery and

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Speaker 1: he joins Dustin May, who's already had Tommy John surgery

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Speaker 1: and now has a forearm flexer issue. We'll see what

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Speaker 1: happens if he needs a second surgery as well. So

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Speaker 1: let me give you some numbers, Joe, on these young

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Speaker 1: pitchers comes to Gonsolin in May. Gonsolin to May, and

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers system combined have thrown three hundred and fifteen

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Speaker 1: professional games. Neither one has ever thrown one hundred and

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Speaker 1: ten pitches in a game. They've exceeded one hundred pitches

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Speaker 1: between the two of them only three times in three

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifteen professional games, and guess what, they still

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Speaker 1: broke down. So I don't know where you're at, Joe,

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Speaker 1: in terms of what we're doing with young pitchers. And

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Speaker 1: there's some other young pitchers we're going to get into

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Speaker 1: here who're getting to the big leagues with ridiculously low

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Speaker 1: pitch count totals. I know it's a big subject and

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Speaker 1: there's some science involved here, and maybe there's some pseudoscience

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Speaker 1: as well, but it seems to me, we're getting these

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Speaker 1: pitchers to the major leagues. We're not extending them at all.

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Speaker 1: When I say extending them, I'm talking about pitching a

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Speaker 1: sixth inning or getting to one hundred pitches even and

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Speaker 1: they're still breaking down. We all see the rates every

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Speaker 1: year with these pitchers and injuries you've seen to change

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Speaker 1: in the arc of your career, Joe, I'd like to

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Speaker 1: get your thoughts on it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that is multi layered, right, I mean, I don't

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Speaker 4: even know where to begin with that. Let's just say

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Speaker 4: say that I don't agree with the limiting the number

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Speaker 4: of innings and pitches that a guy throws in the

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Speaker 4: minor leagues at the point that he never develops. You know,

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Speaker 4: even in our book, The Book of Joe, you chronicle

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Speaker 4: different situations. Even as a minor league manager, wh I

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Speaker 4: permitted some young pitchers to throw way more than that

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Speaker 4: number and they survived and they pitched well in the

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Speaker 4: big leagues.

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Speaker 3: I think a part of it, first of all.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, staying with that vein, if you want to teach

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Speaker 4: a young man how to pitch and get him beyond

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Speaker 4: the hundred pitch mark and get him into the seventh inning,

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Speaker 4: eighth inning, let him pitch, Let him learn how to

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Speaker 4: get out of jams, let him, let him learn how

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Speaker 4: to pitch when things just aren't, you know, perfect, It's

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Speaker 4: not always going to be perfect.

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Speaker 3: You're going to be sort of things are going to

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Speaker 3: be bothering you.

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Speaker 4: And to think that you're always going to feel hundred

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Speaker 4: percent well and get out there every fifth or sixth day,

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Speaker 4: that is a bad assumption.

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Speaker 3: It just doesn't work that way.

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Speaker 4: So you got to learn at some point how to

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Speaker 4: work through these little lakes and pains and how to

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Speaker 4: be creative and how to get guys out That a

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Speaker 4: part of the game. I mean, we rely so much

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Speaker 4: on this velocity driven system right now, and that's part

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Speaker 4: of the injuries, I think, is the fact that you know,

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Speaker 4: the way they're teaching guys, they're not teaching they're just

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Speaker 4: teaching them to throw hard. Like put a mattress up

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Speaker 4: against my wall over there, take two cro hoops and

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Speaker 4: throw as hard as you can. We're going to increase

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Speaker 4: your velocity and spin rate.

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Speaker 3: That is such a bad method, and you're just you're

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Speaker 3: just building them to get hurt and not building them

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Speaker 3: to pitch. So I think there's again there's so many

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Speaker 3: different things with this I like.

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Speaker 4: I like the idea, even in even rookie ball, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't want my guys going.

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Speaker 3: More than maybe one hundred pitches and rookie ball. I

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Speaker 3: get that, and I listen.

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Speaker 4: I was part of the development of Kirk McCastle or

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Speaker 4: Bono Lugo, Bobby Kipper, all these dudes at young ages

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Speaker 4: coming out of college in high school, and we did

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Speaker 4: not We weren't so restricted, and these guys made it

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Speaker 4: through it and did really well as they moved further along.

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Speaker 3: We didn't have. And when you said science, I think

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Speaker 3: it is pseudo signs.

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Speaker 4: Quite frankly, there's no there's no way to predict when

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Speaker 4: a guy's going to get injured other than if he

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Speaker 4: has a bad delivery, his armstroke is bad and he's

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Speaker 4: trying to throw too hard and he comes out of

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Speaker 4: his delivering the latter part of the game. That to

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Speaker 4: me is a predicator regarding whether guy's going to get

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Speaker 4: injured or not. So I would much prefer a more

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Speaker 4: aggressive approach. I guess is the way to put it.

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Speaker 4: Start him out slowly, but really be cognizant of building

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Speaker 4: them up a ball high AAA whatever is remaining in

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Speaker 4: the minor leagues right now. I build up arm strength,

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Speaker 4: make them throw long toss and have him pitch the

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Speaker 4: adversity and have them finished games, have them walk off

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Speaker 4: the mound and shake hands with the catcher and everybody

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Speaker 4: joining on the mound there to congratulate them pitching a

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Speaker 4: complete game and understanding how to do this. I think

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Speaker 4: that's important. And with that, you're going to build better bullpens.

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Speaker 4: You're not going to burn out bullpens every two three

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Speaker 4: years because guys are just trying to three hundred miles

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Speaker 4: an hour and getting hurt.

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Speaker 3: There's so many things that are interconnected with this.

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Speaker 4: Like I said, we could take it one topic at

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Speaker 4: a time, but yeah, I believe in in a different

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Speaker 4: developmental system them. I don't believe that what they're saying

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Speaker 4: is accurate. It's just a it's just a safe method

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Speaker 4: based on if the guy throws too many pitches, he's

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Speaker 4: going to get hurt. My god, if a guy throws

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Speaker 4: too many pitches, he might build up arm strengths.

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Speaker 3: So it works both ways.

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Speaker 1: That's a great point, and especially it's been all thirty

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Speaker 1: teams treating every pitcher the same way when it comes

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Speaker 1: to those workloads. And I don't think either one of

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Speaker 1: us really likes that one size fits all approach. But

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Speaker 1: you know, we had Glenn Flisich on this show a

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Speaker 1: while back, Joe, and remember we talked about this where

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Speaker 1: it used to be the two biggest red flags for

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Speaker 1: pitching injuries were overuse and poor mechanics. Well, very few

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Speaker 1: pictures if anybody gets overused. I think we can say

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Speaker 1: that very safely. And the game has really gotten a

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Speaker 1: lot better with mechanics because of technology, and we can

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Speaker 1: break down these pitching deliveries and know where the stress

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Speaker 1: points are and address them and what's happening And this

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Speaker 1: isn't his words all paraphrase. We've done such a better

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Speaker 1: job as an in industry cleaning up mechanics. And I

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Speaker 1: think over over correcting on workload, that we are teaching

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Speaker 1: guys to throw harder, and that now has become the

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Speaker 1: red flag, which is velocity, which is redlining every time

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Speaker 1: you go out there. You're talking about is chasing velocity,

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Speaker 1: and that's where the injuries are coming from.

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Speaker 3: It.

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Speaker 1: It's not that the system of limiting guys innings in

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Speaker 1: the minor leagues and pitch counts, that's not saving pictures

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Speaker 1: from anything. So I think the industry has to relook,

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Speaker 1: you know about what is the attrition rate for these

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Speaker 1: young pictures.

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Speaker 4: When you talk about teaching mechanics, who's doing the teaching

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Speaker 4: and what is the basis for their teachings. You know,

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Speaker 4: a lot of this has to do with stick figures

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Speaker 4: and slow motion video and all this other kind of stuff.

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Speaker 4: That young people might be able to attempt to accumulate

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Speaker 4: a databank mentally and try to watch a picture pitch

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Speaker 4: may backtracked. They're not watching the picture pitch and trying

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Speaker 4: to correct them. They're watching a picture pitch. Then they

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Speaker 4: go and they turned to an iPad and then attempt

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Speaker 4: to imparts some wisdom. I was around Marcel Latschman, I

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Speaker 4: was around Joe Coleman as two examples. I was around

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Speaker 4: mister Paul Paul. I was around some really good pitching

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Speaker 4: coaches that were outstanding and regarding correcting deliveries not just

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Speaker 4: in a bullpen session, but also real time in the game.

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Speaker 4: And that's where it's really pertinent, too pertinent. I don't

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Speaker 4: know that, Listen, I'm not indicting everybody, but I'm just

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Speaker 4: telling you, if you haven't had the experience to really

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Speaker 4: do these kind of things, I just believe that you're

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Speaker 4: going to do in game based on your vision as

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Speaker 4: compared to like a lot of these guys just need

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Speaker 4: to be able to look at an iPad and tell

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Speaker 4: you what they think. I was around the best, and

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Speaker 4: I believe in game corrections. I believe things get sideways

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Speaker 4: sometimes and you'll be able to That's what I want

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Speaker 4: my pitching to be able to go out there that

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Speaker 4: to settle the guy down, have him breathed, or if

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Speaker 4: he's legitimately seeing something, I'll tell you what. Junior Coleman

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Speaker 4: and Marcel Latchman outstanding at those two items and I

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Speaker 4: saw it. And teaching mechanics, I mean, I don't even

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Speaker 4: know if it's incongruent to say that I'm going to

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Speaker 4: teach them to throw as hard as they possibly can.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to teach good mechanics.

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Speaker 4: At the same time, I don't know that that doesn't

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Speaker 4: make sense to me, because when you're treating the guy

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Speaker 4: to like throw throw hard, throw hard, throw hard, and.

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Speaker 3: That's really much the main objective.

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Speaker 4: It's like hitters chasing exit velocity and launch angles, you're

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Speaker 4: really not learning how to hit. So these are the

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Speaker 4: things that I hear, Okay, I'll listen to it. But

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Speaker 4: at the end of the day, I know what Jimmy

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Speaker 4: Leffiever did. I know what Benny Hines did.

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Speaker 3: I know what Rick Down did. I know what Marshall did.

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Speaker 4: I know what Joe Coleman did, And we had eventually

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Speaker 4: there was some video that was brought into it. But

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Speaker 4: these guys were really good with eyeballs, man, and they're

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Speaker 4: really good in the dugout. They're really good when the

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Speaker 4: guy moses up alongside them. They don't have to look

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Speaker 4: at an iPad to take what they're seeing. They'll tell

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Speaker 4: you what they're seeing. So, yeah, I going to old

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Speaker 4: school a little bit, but I'm also a believer in

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Speaker 4: this other stuff.

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Speaker 3: But I'm telling you, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: a good cod coach sees things by himself, independent of

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Speaker 3: a device.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not going to argue with you there.

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Speaker 1: And I think it gets back to one of our

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Speaker 1: favorite words, Joe, and that's balance.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I do want that pitching coach who can see something

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Speaker 1: in real time and has got experience. But I also

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Speaker 1: know that if you looked at Steven Strasburg, if you

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Speaker 1: looked at Mark Pryor, and you put them now on

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Speaker 1: the technology we have today, you realize there were major

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Speaker 1: red flags in their deliveries. They were late getting that

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Speaker 1: ball loaded. In other words, that front foot is on

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Speaker 1: the ground, that ball is still not above the shoulder

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Speaker 1: at a loaded position. That's a red flag there that

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people missed early on. And

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Speaker 1: they could have protected Steven Strasburg all they wanted in

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Speaker 1: terms of pitch counts. But when you've got that kind

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Speaker 1: of a flaw and you're stressing the shoulder and eventually

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Speaker 1: the elbow by being a late loader, you're going to

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Speaker 1: get hurt.

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Speaker 2: It's as simple as that.

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Speaker 1: And I think with technology we can jump on some

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Speaker 1: of those things early and smooth out some of those things.

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Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, I think a balance is the

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Speaker 1: best way to go.

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Speaker 3: Let me just if I may on that one with

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Speaker 3: Steven Strasburg, which this guy when he was good, was

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Speaker 3: really good.

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Speaker 4: That's got to go back to when he's like twelve

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Speaker 4: or thirteen or fourteen. I think, yes, it's hard. It's

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Speaker 4: hard to take an armstroke like they're doing with Giolito.

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Speaker 4: They've done with Giledo in with the White Sox coupiers

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Speaker 4: go with that abbreviated pull back with the raking of

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Speaker 4: the ball, which I kind of like. But to just

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Speaker 4: change somebody's armstroke and become a big league player and

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Speaker 4: think you're going to be successful with it, man, that's

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Speaker 4: not easy to do.

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Speaker 2: Not easy, especially when the guy is having success.

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Speaker 3: Of course.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if there's a lot on it. I like

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Speaker 4: the idea of like really accomplish players. If there's any

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Speaker 4: video of them when they were in high school, as

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Speaker 4: an example, hitting or throwing the baseball, I'd love to

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Speaker 4: see video of that, and then see a video of

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Speaker 4: them now.

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Speaker 3: I would bet high.

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Speaker 4: Percentage wise what they look like as a senior in

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Speaker 4: high schools, what they look like is twenty seven year

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Speaker 4: old in the big league, regarding how they threw the ball,

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Speaker 4: how they swung the bat, how they start at the bat,

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Speaker 4: et cetera. Once you build in those body movements, man,

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Speaker 4: it's hard. It's hard to change that stuff. You could

439
00:20:10,398 --> 00:20:13,158
Speaker 4: do like little tweaks, you could do like minor adjustments,

440
00:20:13,158 --> 00:20:15,358
Speaker 4: but it's hard to make mate to do major surgery.

441
00:20:15,878 --> 00:20:17,678
Speaker 4: The big thing, the difference to me, and we don't

442
00:20:17,678 --> 00:20:19,878
Speaker 4: talk about this enough, is what they're thinking. And that's

443
00:20:19,878 --> 00:20:22,398
Speaker 4: where like a Kenriviza was so invaluable, and so is

444
00:20:22,958 --> 00:20:26,998
Speaker 4: Harvey Dorfin in that particular growth group, Carl Keel, because

445
00:20:27,078 --> 00:20:29,198
Speaker 4: it's about what we think it's ability to breathe, it's

446
00:20:29,198 --> 00:20:32,118
Speaker 4: about slowing things down, which permits me to see things better.

447
00:20:32,678 --> 00:20:35,518
Speaker 4: Nobody talks about that enough, and I think, to me,

448
00:20:35,638 --> 00:20:39,278
Speaker 4: that's a real underrated method of teaching this game, or

449
00:20:39,318 --> 00:20:42,478
Speaker 4: teaching any sport. So all again, balance, all these things

450
00:20:42,518 --> 00:20:45,598
Speaker 4: have to be included, but we're so focused on I

451
00:20:46,078 --> 00:20:48,118
Speaker 4: watch a game and the right away a guy hits

452
00:20:48,118 --> 00:20:49,318
Speaker 4: the ball heart and they're going to tell me how

453
00:20:49,678 --> 00:20:51,718
Speaker 4: how hard he hit it? What was the miles prober? God,

454
00:20:51,718 --> 00:20:54,078
Speaker 4: that's so boring to me, I swear. And the same

455
00:20:54,118 --> 00:20:56,358
Speaker 4: thing with a picture. I mean, god, he's throwing ninety

456
00:20:56,398 --> 00:20:57,078
Speaker 4: nine miles an hour.

457
00:20:57,118 --> 00:20:57,358
Speaker 3: Good.

458
00:20:57,558 --> 00:20:59,318
Speaker 4: But if it's straat and it's and it's right there,

459
00:20:59,358 --> 00:21:01,758
Speaker 4: I've seen some guys get really turned around easily with that.

460
00:21:02,398 --> 00:21:04,998
Speaker 4: It's just it's not as important to being a good picture,

461
00:21:05,038 --> 00:21:07,598
Speaker 4: a good hitter and being able to breathe and being

462
00:21:07,998 --> 00:21:10,878
Speaker 4: beat your opposition mentally. It's not always about beating them physically.

463
00:21:10,998 --> 00:21:12,878
Speaker 2: Joe, we're gonna take a quick break and we got

464
00:21:12,998 --> 00:21:14,638
Speaker 2: we come back. I've got a story.

465
00:21:14,638 --> 00:21:17,478
Speaker 1: I think you're going to like something happened Monday night

466
00:21:17,558 --> 00:21:21,198
Speaker 1: in Kansas City that hasn't happened in two years.

467
00:21:21,318 --> 00:21:23,598
Speaker 2: Believe it or not. I'll tell you that story right

468
00:21:23,598 --> 00:21:23,958
Speaker 2: after this.

469
00:21:24,198 --> 00:21:24,438
Speaker 3: Cool.

470
00:21:34,558 --> 00:21:36,278
Speaker 2: Okay, Joe. This is Kansas City.

471
00:21:36,598 --> 00:21:42,958
Speaker 1: They're playing Pittsburgh Monday night and Johann Oviedo, twenty five.

472
00:21:42,798 --> 00:21:45,718
Speaker 2: Year old pitcher for the Pirates, is just dealing.

473
00:21:46,518 --> 00:21:51,518
Speaker 1: He's through eight innings and he's got ninety seven three

474
00:21:51,838 --> 00:21:56,478
Speaker 1: ninety something pitches. Derek Shelton, the manager, and Oscar Marine,

475
00:21:56,518 --> 00:21:59,358
Speaker 1: the pitching coach, they're prepared as the game is today,

476
00:21:59,878 --> 00:22:00,598
Speaker 1: to shut him down.

477
00:22:00,598 --> 00:22:02,598
Speaker 2: That's it. Nice job, shake his hand, you're done.

478
00:22:04,158 --> 00:22:07,678
Speaker 1: Rodriguez, their young catcher, goes up to Oviedo and said,

479
00:22:07,718 --> 00:22:08,078
Speaker 1: let's go.

480
00:22:08,438 --> 00:22:09,598
Speaker 2: You're finishing this game.

481
00:22:10,518 --> 00:22:13,478
Speaker 1: And the manager of the pitching coach, to their credit,

482
00:22:14,278 --> 00:22:16,638
Speaker 1: took that as a cue from their young catcher and said,

483
00:22:16,678 --> 00:22:19,158
Speaker 1: you know what, Let's send him out there for the ninth.

484
00:22:20,278 --> 00:22:22,958
Speaker 1: Johann Alvito goes one, two three in the ninth inning,

485
00:22:23,398 --> 00:22:27,838
Speaker 1: finishes with one hundred and twelve pitches, complete game. Huge

486
00:22:27,918 --> 00:22:31,558
Speaker 1: hug after the game, uh Rodriguez and Ovieda. They said

487
00:22:31,558 --> 00:22:33,438
Speaker 1: it was the best hug they've ever had in their lives.

488
00:22:33,558 --> 00:22:35,798
Speaker 1: It was just a great moment for a team. Let's

489
00:22:35,838 --> 00:22:39,038
Speaker 1: face it's not playing for anything. Let me tell you,

490
00:22:39,118 --> 00:22:42,998
Speaker 1: Joe age twenty five, pitcher throwing nine innings at one

491
00:22:43,078 --> 00:22:46,718
Speaker 1: hundred and twelve pitches. It's the first time that's happened

492
00:22:46,798 --> 00:22:51,918
Speaker 1: in two years. So again, credit starts with the catcher

493
00:22:52,038 --> 00:22:55,078
Speaker 1: and he Rodriguez. This guy's just full of energy. Reminds

494
00:22:55,078 --> 00:22:58,958
Speaker 1: me of a young Wilson Contreras. And credit to the

495
00:22:58,958 --> 00:23:01,398
Speaker 1: manager and the pitching coach as well for not being

496
00:23:01,438 --> 00:23:06,558
Speaker 1: so locked in to some imaginary limit of a pitch

497
00:23:06,638 --> 00:23:08,438
Speaker 1: count for Johann al Vieda. And how do you think

498
00:23:08,518 --> 00:23:12,278
Speaker 1: Johan Johann Alvieda Field felt after the game the next morning,

499
00:23:12,798 --> 00:23:17,118
Speaker 1: after throwing a CGH and his catcher bringing him through

500
00:23:17,118 --> 00:23:18,038
Speaker 1: that ninth inningk.

501
00:23:18,038 --> 00:23:20,278
Speaker 3: That is a perfect game. That's the first perfect game

502
00:23:20,318 --> 00:23:22,678
Speaker 3: of the year. I love hearing all that stuff, the innings,

503
00:23:22,718 --> 00:23:24,718
Speaker 3: the number of pitches that could really.

504
00:23:24,558 --> 00:23:27,838
Speaker 4: Catapult this young pitcher. Definitely when he gets in trouble

505
00:23:28,038 --> 00:23:29,958
Speaker 4: and in a latter part of the game in the future,

506
00:23:29,998 --> 00:23:31,718
Speaker 4: he's going to know how to work through that a

507
00:23:31,758 --> 00:23:35,918
Speaker 4: little bit more readily. He's gonna look for that finish

508
00:23:35,958 --> 00:23:37,918
Speaker 4: line every time he goes out there. That's going to

509
00:23:38,038 --> 00:23:40,798
Speaker 4: benefit the bullpen, that's going to benefit the team. There's

510
00:23:40,878 --> 00:23:43,278
Speaker 4: all these ancillary benefits that occur in that moment that

511
00:23:43,438 --> 00:23:46,598
Speaker 4: nobody wants to attempt to evaluate and construct.

512
00:23:46,638 --> 00:23:48,638
Speaker 3: It's true. It's just true.

513
00:23:48,358 --> 00:23:51,318
Speaker 4: I've had so many examples of that, and we've used

514
00:23:51,318 --> 00:23:54,198
Speaker 4: the Jake Ariota thing with in Minnesota several years ago.

515
00:23:54,758 --> 00:23:57,758
Speaker 4: But my thing was always like a couple years ago

516
00:23:58,678 --> 00:24:03,278
Speaker 4: with the Agels, I think I read Devers pitch a

517
00:24:03,358 --> 00:24:04,078
Speaker 4: complete game.

518
00:24:04,118 --> 00:24:05,718
Speaker 3: At some point we had a no hitter. I know that,

519
00:24:05,758 --> 00:24:08,958
Speaker 3: but you just let these guys go, let him go

520
00:24:09,038 --> 00:24:10,798
Speaker 3: into the half of you.

521
00:24:10,518 --> 00:24:13,438
Speaker 4: You always have somebody ready in the bullpen. You have

522
00:24:13,478 --> 00:24:16,478
Speaker 4: somebody playing catch, not necessarily standing up, but get them

523
00:24:16,478 --> 00:24:17,518
Speaker 4: get him close to being loose.

524
00:24:17,678 --> 00:24:19,278
Speaker 3: We need this quickly. We'll do this.

525
00:24:19,918 --> 00:24:22,758
Speaker 4: But when you give a young man an opportunity like this,

526
00:24:23,318 --> 00:24:27,518
Speaker 4: it could be life altering as a pitcher and organizationally. Hopefully,

527
00:24:27,958 --> 00:24:30,758
Speaker 4: I hope there wasn't a phone call afterwards with some.

528
00:24:30,798 --> 00:24:32,878
Speaker 3: Kind of concern about, well, you.

529
00:24:32,798 --> 00:24:35,078
Speaker 4: Know, don't let that happen again kind of a thing. No,

530
00:24:35,398 --> 00:24:37,758
Speaker 4: I hope that did not happen because it's possibly that

531
00:24:37,838 --> 00:24:41,878
Speaker 4: it did. This is something again hopefully that the other

532
00:24:41,918 --> 00:24:44,078
Speaker 4: young pictures on that team notice and they want to

533
00:24:44,078 --> 00:24:44,478
Speaker 4: do also.

534
00:24:44,918 --> 00:24:48,758
Speaker 1: By the way, in twenty eleven, Clayton Kershaw did it

535
00:24:48,798 --> 00:24:49,638
Speaker 1: four times.

536
00:24:49,878 --> 00:24:52,318
Speaker 2: I think his career turned out Okay, yeah, it's not bad.

537
00:24:52,438 --> 00:24:55,558
Speaker 1: So the other night, speaking of young pitchers, I saw

538
00:24:55,718 --> 00:24:58,398
Speaker 1: Jordan Wicks make his major league debut for the Cubs.

539
00:24:58,438 --> 00:25:01,598
Speaker 1: If you haven't seen him pitch, love his mechanics. He

540
00:25:01,638 --> 00:25:05,718
Speaker 1: has got a plus plus change up, kind of middling velocity.

541
00:25:05,798 --> 00:25:09,718
Speaker 1: He's a college kid, went to Kansas State, but man,

542
00:25:09,798 --> 00:25:13,438
Speaker 1: he's really really impressive in terms of his baseball IQ,

543
00:25:14,158 --> 00:25:17,998
Speaker 1: the cleanliness of his arm stroke and again he's blessed

544
00:25:18,038 --> 00:25:20,438
Speaker 1: with just a change up. He can tell you it's

545
00:25:20,478 --> 00:25:23,838
Speaker 1: coming and hitters still have trouble with it. It's really

546
00:25:23,838 --> 00:25:26,678
Speaker 1: that good. And looking at his career, Joe again, he

547
00:25:26,718 --> 00:25:29,238
Speaker 1: went to Kansas State, pitched three years there, pitched a

548
00:25:29,278 --> 00:25:31,398
Speaker 1: couple of years in the minor leagues. He made his

549
00:25:31,518 --> 00:25:35,558
Speaker 1: major league debut without ever throwing even ninety pitches as

550
00:25:35,558 --> 00:25:41,038
Speaker 1: a professional. He only went beyond five innings once in

551
00:25:41,078 --> 00:25:43,758
Speaker 1: the minor leagues. So I was talking to David Ross

552
00:25:43,798 --> 00:25:46,478
Speaker 1: about this, and you know, this is what teams do

553
00:25:46,878 --> 00:25:50,158
Speaker 1: quote unquote to keep pitchers healthy. Right, So now you

554
00:25:50,198 --> 00:25:52,838
Speaker 1: get to the major leagues and you know, ROSSI took

555
00:25:52,878 --> 00:25:55,878
Speaker 1: him out after five innings. A kid pitched great, first

556
00:25:55,878 --> 00:25:58,478
Speaker 1: three guys, he went home run, single walk, and after

557
00:25:58,478 --> 00:25:59,678
Speaker 1: that he goes fifteen.

558
00:25:59,358 --> 00:25:59,878
Speaker 2: In a row.

559
00:26:00,638 --> 00:26:02,518
Speaker 1: But Rossi, he took him out of the game obviously

560
00:26:02,958 --> 00:26:05,438
Speaker 1: because he's not really stretched out, and that's what he

561
00:26:05,558 --> 00:26:07,198
Speaker 1: is at this point in his young career.

562
00:26:07,198 --> 00:26:10,038
Speaker 2: He's actually twenty four years old, so he's not a baby.

563
00:26:11,598 --> 00:26:12,558
Speaker 2: Ross he talked about.

564
00:26:12,558 --> 00:26:15,038
Speaker 1: This is how they were developing pitchers in the minor leagues,

565
00:26:15,878 --> 00:26:19,318
Speaker 1: relief pitchers under restrictions of being able to pitch only

566
00:26:19,438 --> 00:26:21,598
Speaker 1: twice a week in the minor leagues, and you get

567
00:26:21,598 --> 00:26:24,238
Speaker 1: to the major leagues, you better be ready to go

568
00:26:24,358 --> 00:26:26,798
Speaker 1: two three days in a row, three or four times

569
00:26:26,838 --> 00:26:29,878
Speaker 1: a week. So as a major league manager, you're inheriting

570
00:26:29,958 --> 00:26:32,478
Speaker 1: these guys who still have training wheels on. And if

571
00:26:32,518 --> 00:26:36,198
Speaker 1: you're in a pennant race like a David Ross boy,

572
00:26:36,278 --> 00:26:39,438
Speaker 1: it just seems like, you know, you got your hands

573
00:26:39,438 --> 00:26:41,238
Speaker 1: strung a little bit here in terms of how much

574
00:26:41,238 --> 00:26:43,838
Speaker 1: you can work with these kids. But anyway, I thought

575
00:26:43,838 --> 00:26:47,318
Speaker 1: that would really you know, it was very interesting to

576
00:26:47,358 --> 00:26:50,278
Speaker 1: see a kid brought up, a college pitcher who had

577
00:26:50,358 --> 00:26:52,758
Speaker 1: yet to throw ninety pitches as a professional, and there

578
00:26:52,758 --> 00:26:54,678
Speaker 1: he is making his major league debut.

579
00:26:54,998 --> 00:26:59,038
Speaker 4: I mean, all this protectionism, I just really don't understand it.

580
00:26:59,158 --> 00:27:01,878
Speaker 4: And what you just said, there are two times a week,

581
00:27:01,918 --> 00:27:04,358
Speaker 4: for two times a week for relief that your man.

582
00:27:04,398 --> 00:27:06,838
Speaker 4: That's you know, I ran into those problems that the

583
00:27:06,878 --> 00:27:08,998
Speaker 4: latter part with the Angels be based on how they

584
00:27:09,038 --> 00:27:11,038
Speaker 4: wanted to protect relief pictures, and now they're going to

585
00:27:11,078 --> 00:27:15,278
Speaker 4: get hurt. And it's just it's it's not it's not true,

586
00:27:15,278 --> 00:27:16,838
Speaker 4: and it's not good. I'm just telling you right now,

587
00:27:16,838 --> 00:27:20,838
Speaker 4: it's not I don't know what, like you called it pseudoscience,

588
00:27:20,838 --> 00:27:23,518
Speaker 4: and I'm going to go with that. Regardless of how

589
00:27:23,558 --> 00:27:25,718
Speaker 4: we pitch pitchers, they still end up getting hurt. There's

590
00:27:25,758 --> 00:27:27,398
Speaker 4: there's no way to put a guy in a bubble

591
00:27:27,958 --> 00:27:29,678
Speaker 4: and predict that he's not going to get hurt if

592
00:27:29,678 --> 00:27:31,918
Speaker 4: we do this all the time. I don't believe that.

593
00:27:31,998 --> 00:27:35,478
Speaker 4: And and again with the the infrequency with relief pitchers

594
00:27:35,518 --> 00:27:39,078
Speaker 4: you do hamstring managers, it becomes increasingly more difficult, and

595
00:27:39,078 --> 00:27:42,878
Speaker 4: and and again. I've been I got to reference myself here,

596
00:27:42,878 --> 00:27:44,758
Speaker 4: but even back in the minor leagues, back in a

597
00:27:44,878 --> 00:27:46,198
Speaker 4: ball and even a double a midland.

598
00:27:46,198 --> 00:27:48,358
Speaker 3: Whatever you keep it, you keep it charge.

599
00:27:48,398 --> 00:27:49,998
Speaker 4: You know how many times a week a guy pitching,

600
00:27:49,998 --> 00:27:52,198
Speaker 4: how many pitches that he threw, and you knew how

601
00:27:52,238 --> 00:27:53,278
Speaker 4: much time to give him off.

602
00:27:53,318 --> 00:27:55,678
Speaker 3: After he threw so many pitches or pitched a couple

603
00:27:55,678 --> 00:27:56,478
Speaker 3: of days in a row.

604
00:27:56,358 --> 00:27:59,118
Speaker 4: You knew that it hasn't changed. You have to talk

605
00:27:59,158 --> 00:28:03,038
Speaker 4: to the player. Everybody's different. Some guys can handle greater workloads,

606
00:28:03,038 --> 00:28:06,158
Speaker 4: some guys cannot. They're not all the same. It's not

607
00:28:06,238 --> 00:28:09,558
Speaker 4: a cookie cutter in the industry or situation, but we're

608
00:28:09,558 --> 00:28:12,438
Speaker 4: trying to make it into one. You just can't always

609
00:28:12,478 --> 00:28:15,158
Speaker 4: apply an equation to a human being and think that

610
00:28:15,238 --> 00:28:17,998
Speaker 4: you have all the answers based on math or data.

611
00:28:18,238 --> 00:28:19,278
Speaker 3: It's just not true.

612
00:28:19,438 --> 00:28:21,758
Speaker 2: So Joe, let me ask you this, because you lived it.

613
00:28:21,838 --> 00:28:23,518
Speaker 1: You saw some of the you know, guys get to

614
00:28:23,558 --> 00:28:25,798
Speaker 1: the big leagues who weren't really stretched out. You know,

615
00:28:25,838 --> 00:28:28,398
Speaker 1: you couldn't pitch them a third time through a lineup,

616
00:28:28,518 --> 00:28:31,158
Speaker 1: or they didn't know how to pitch to get out

617
00:28:31,158 --> 00:28:32,758
Speaker 1: of a jam a third time in the course of

618
00:28:32,758 --> 00:28:35,478
Speaker 1: a game. They were never allowed that opportunity. Here's a

619
00:28:35,518 --> 00:28:37,718
Speaker 1: comparison for you, because we don't need to go back

620
00:28:37,758 --> 00:28:40,078
Speaker 1: to the sixties and seventies. Right when guys are throwing

621
00:28:40,118 --> 00:28:43,038
Speaker 1: three hundred innings, we realized that was probably overkilled. Back

622
00:28:43,038 --> 00:28:46,158
Speaker 1: in the day, the game's completely different. There's more velocity. Okay,

623
00:28:46,758 --> 00:28:50,998
Speaker 1: how about let's compare Jordan Wicks to Sonny Gray. Okay,

624
00:28:51,398 --> 00:28:54,838
Speaker 1: Jordan Wicks at a college twenty first overall pick in

625
00:28:54,918 --> 00:28:57,918
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Ten years earlier, Sonny Gray at a

626
00:28:57,958 --> 00:29:02,358
Speaker 1: college Vanderbilt was the eighteenth pick. Sunny Gray's first full

627
00:29:02,398 --> 00:29:04,838
Speaker 1: two full seasons, the Miners through one hundred and fifty

628
00:29:04,838 --> 00:29:07,238
Speaker 1: two and one hundred and eighty two innings. In those

629
00:29:07,238 --> 00:29:10,518
Speaker 1: two years, Jordan Wicks has gone ninety four and ninety

630
00:29:10,518 --> 00:29:15,998
Speaker 1: six innings. Sonny Gray was averaging five point six innings

631
00:29:16,078 --> 00:29:19,398
Speaker 1: per start in the minor leagues. Ten years later, Jordan

632
00:29:19,478 --> 00:29:23,198
Speaker 1: Wicks is throwing three point nine and four point six

633
00:29:23,878 --> 00:29:29,158
Speaker 1: three point nine. He went beyond five innings once in

634
00:29:29,198 --> 00:29:31,998
Speaker 1: two years. Basically he was out of the most games

635
00:29:32,038 --> 00:29:35,358
Speaker 1: in the fourth inning because that's what was scripted.

636
00:29:35,998 --> 00:29:39,118
Speaker 2: Now, you tell me, Joe, what has changed. We're talking

637
00:29:39,158 --> 00:29:44,038
Speaker 2: only ten years between Sonny Gray and Jordan Wicks.

638
00:29:44,238 --> 00:29:46,318
Speaker 4: I mean, the expectation is we only want them to

639
00:29:46,358 --> 00:29:47,518
Speaker 4: go four or five innings.

640
00:29:47,238 --> 00:29:49,038
Speaker 3: Because we want to go to the bullpen. We don't

641
00:29:49,038 --> 00:29:50,238
Speaker 3: want them to pitch a third time. Two.

642
00:29:50,278 --> 00:29:53,318
Speaker 4: These are all hard and fast lines that have been

643
00:29:53,358 --> 00:29:57,318
Speaker 4: drawn in the baseball dirt sand so that they're developing.

644
00:29:57,398 --> 00:30:00,078
Speaker 4: So if this kid only goes that many innings per

645
00:30:00,118 --> 00:30:02,638
Speaker 4: in the minor leagues, that's fine. That's fine because we

646
00:30:02,718 --> 00:30:05,398
Speaker 4: still we want to row take this group of relief

647
00:30:05,398 --> 00:30:07,958
Speaker 4: pictures in the latter part of the game, especially with

648
00:30:07,998 --> 00:30:08,278
Speaker 4: the win.

649
00:30:08,718 --> 00:30:11,518
Speaker 3: I mean it's always funny too, Like if you're losing.

650
00:30:11,278 --> 00:30:14,078
Speaker 4: It's easier to go longer with certain guys, but when

651
00:30:14,078 --> 00:30:16,118
Speaker 4: you're winning, they want them out of there immediately.

652
00:30:16,118 --> 00:30:19,118
Speaker 3: At a certain point, it's not right. Sonny Gray is

653
00:30:19,158 --> 00:30:21,198
Speaker 3: a great example. I love him as a picture man.

654
00:30:21,238 --> 00:30:23,518
Speaker 4: He had those couple of tough years, but boy, this

655
00:30:23,598 --> 00:30:25,238
Speaker 4: guy is really good and.

656
00:30:25,158 --> 00:30:28,238
Speaker 3: He's not that big. He's not a tall guy. Strom

657
00:30:28,358 --> 00:30:28,798
Speaker 3: was the same way.

658
00:30:28,838 --> 00:30:31,278
Speaker 4: There's some guys that are just strong and they repeat

659
00:30:31,278 --> 00:30:33,678
Speaker 4: their delivery as well. So I just think when you

660
00:30:33,718 --> 00:30:35,438
Speaker 4: hear that story like you just gave it to me.

661
00:30:36,078 --> 00:30:39,118
Speaker 4: The front office or front office is that's all they

662
00:30:39,158 --> 00:30:41,958
Speaker 4: want out of their starters. And I think when you

663
00:30:42,078 --> 00:30:44,118
Speaker 4: nurture starters like that quite frankly enough to pay them

664
00:30:44,118 --> 00:30:46,198
Speaker 4: as much and then you could you rely on relief

665
00:30:46,198 --> 00:30:48,278
Speaker 4: pictures even were there's a lot of built ins here

666
00:30:48,718 --> 00:30:52,558
Speaker 4: that aren't as obvious and aren't spoken about enough. But

667
00:30:52,598 --> 00:30:57,598
Speaker 4: there's different reasons why organizations like this method, well beyond

668
00:30:57,758 --> 00:31:00,438
Speaker 4: just the fact that the third time through is a problematic.

669
00:31:00,718 --> 00:31:02,998
Speaker 2: All right, we're gonna talk more about young pictures here.

670
00:31:03,078 --> 00:31:05,118
Speaker 1: Kyle Harris, I don't know if you caught him for

671
00:31:05,158 --> 00:31:08,598
Speaker 1: the San Francisco Giants, punched out eleven in his second start.

672
00:31:09,158 --> 00:31:12,278
Speaker 1: He a lefty taking out a high school in twenty twenty.

673
00:31:12,958 --> 00:31:16,598
Speaker 1: That's the COVID draft obviously. And listen, they've had governors

674
00:31:16,638 --> 00:31:20,118
Speaker 1: on him as well. Seventy one pro starts. He's thrown

675
00:31:20,118 --> 00:31:23,918
Speaker 1: a hundred pitches just twice. In the miners in twenty

676
00:31:23,958 --> 00:31:26,718
Speaker 1: twenty three, he threw more than five innings just once.

677
00:31:27,038 --> 00:31:29,518
Speaker 2: So here he is in the rotation for the Giants.

678
00:31:29,518 --> 00:31:30,598
Speaker 2: They're in a pennant race.

679
00:31:31,758 --> 00:31:34,518
Speaker 1: He was so efficient striking out eleven that he actually

680
00:31:34,558 --> 00:31:36,918
Speaker 1: took the ball into the seventh inning, and Gabe Kapler

681
00:31:36,998 --> 00:31:40,118
Speaker 1: talked about being nervous watching this guy as he's just

682
00:31:40,158 --> 00:31:43,878
Speaker 1: mowing down the Reds. But it made me think. You've

683
00:31:43,878 --> 00:31:46,798
Speaker 1: got the Cubs with Jordan Wicks. You've got the Giants

684
00:31:46,878 --> 00:31:50,798
Speaker 1: with Kyle Harrison. You've got the Marlins with Urdy Perez,

685
00:31:51,238 --> 00:31:53,998
Speaker 1: you got the Orioles with Grayson Rodriguez, the Mariners with

686
00:31:54,038 --> 00:31:57,438
Speaker 1: Bryce Miller, the Astros with Hunter Brown. These are all

687
00:31:57,478 --> 00:32:01,158
Speaker 1: teams in a pennant race who've got these young pitchers

688
00:32:01,158 --> 00:32:04,158
Speaker 1: in their rotations who still have their training wheels on.

689
00:32:04,998 --> 00:32:08,158
Speaker 1: So if you're the manager and your job is to

690
00:32:08,158 --> 00:32:10,998
Speaker 1: get the team into the postseason, how do you handle

691
00:32:11,038 --> 00:32:12,318
Speaker 1: these guys down the stretch.

692
00:32:12,678 --> 00:32:14,438
Speaker 4: Well, you probably have to handle them down the stretch

693
00:32:14,478 --> 00:32:17,718
Speaker 4: like you've handled them all year. And even I think

694
00:32:17,718 --> 00:32:20,558
Speaker 4: you mentioned or alluded to it earlier, the longer season

695
00:32:20,678 --> 00:32:22,678
Speaker 4: people getting fatigued or more tired.

696
00:32:22,358 --> 00:32:24,638
Speaker 3: At the end of the year. That's just obvious. Everybody does.

697
00:32:24,678 --> 00:32:27,318
Speaker 4: But if you've not been stretched out to a certain point,

698
00:32:27,358 --> 00:32:29,918
Speaker 4: the chances are you're going to be that way. And

699
00:32:29,958 --> 00:32:32,638
Speaker 4: they always try to limit innings or pitches so that

700
00:32:32,718 --> 00:32:34,518
Speaker 4: they could get more meaningful innings out of them in

701
00:32:34,518 --> 00:32:35,438
Speaker 4: September and October.

702
00:32:35,438 --> 00:32:36,998
Speaker 3: That's not necessarily what's going to happen.

703
00:32:37,318 --> 00:32:40,398
Speaker 4: It's just just by playing longer, that extra month or

704
00:32:40,438 --> 00:32:42,598
Speaker 4: two months mentally just beats the crap out.

705
00:32:42,798 --> 00:32:44,878
Speaker 3: Again, that's not even considered. It's just the fact that

706
00:32:44,958 --> 00:32:46,958
Speaker 3: if we limit the number of pitches that they've thrown,

707
00:32:47,518 --> 00:32:49,998
Speaker 3: almost automatically, they're going to be successful when it comes

708
00:32:50,038 --> 00:32:52,638
Speaker 3: to the end of the year when everything is dialed up,

709
00:32:52,758 --> 00:32:55,718
Speaker 3: everything is dialed up, and they're dialed up mentally.

710
00:32:55,318 --> 00:32:59,518
Speaker 4: Man, And it's really comes down to that. The mentally

711
00:32:59,558 --> 00:33:01,478
Speaker 4: tough groups are the groups you really got to be

712
00:33:01,558 --> 00:33:03,478
Speaker 4: careful with because they're not going to quit, they're not

713
00:33:03,518 --> 00:33:05,638
Speaker 4: going to give up, and they're gonna be very dangerous

714
00:33:05,678 --> 00:33:07,678
Speaker 4: in the latter part of the season.

715
00:33:08,118 --> 00:33:10,238
Speaker 3: So these kind of kids.

716
00:33:10,038 --> 00:33:11,678
Speaker 4: Right here, Yeah, they're all got great arms, they've all

717
00:33:11,718 --> 00:33:13,798
Speaker 4: but they're they're not established. They haven't done this for

718
00:33:13,838 --> 00:33:16,518
Speaker 4: a period of time. Uh, They're they're they're short lived.

719
00:33:16,558 --> 00:33:19,438
Speaker 4: To this point, you have to see this again over

720
00:33:19,518 --> 00:33:22,478
Speaker 4: over time to to really believe that they can do

721
00:33:22,598 --> 00:33:24,478
Speaker 4: this repeated on an annual basis.

722
00:33:24,478 --> 00:33:27,918
Speaker 3: They can be good to great and they talked about Kershaw.

723
00:33:28,758 --> 00:33:32,118
Speaker 4: You've got to build into this greatness and it just

724
00:33:32,158 --> 00:33:34,998
Speaker 4: doesn't happen overnight. A couple months of success or maybe

725
00:33:35,038 --> 00:33:36,838
Speaker 4: one or two years in the minor leagues of success

726
00:33:37,158 --> 00:33:41,878
Speaker 4: does not equate into becoming this this, this animal and

727
00:33:41,958 --> 00:33:45,598
Speaker 4: a major league level. And that's that's that's the assumptions

728
00:33:45,598 --> 00:33:47,238
Speaker 4: that are going to be made by limiting them. Her

729
00:33:47,278 --> 00:33:50,318
Speaker 4: pitches that he pitches, a number of appearances that he makes,

730
00:33:50,358 --> 00:33:51,998
Speaker 4: that all of a sudden he's going to figure it

731
00:33:51,998 --> 00:33:54,118
Speaker 4: out and be great. These these are the things that

732
00:33:54,398 --> 00:33:57,598
Speaker 4: timmy are counterintuitive. But more than anything, the length of

733
00:33:57,638 --> 00:34:00,358
Speaker 4: the season heads up. It's a mental grind where than

734
00:34:00,358 --> 00:34:01,358
Speaker 4: it is a physical one.

735
00:34:01,678 --> 00:34:04,678
Speaker 1: Yeah, one last stat for you here on pitchers twenty

736
00:34:04,718 --> 00:34:07,718
Speaker 1: five and younger throwing one hundred and ten pitches. It's

737
00:34:07,758 --> 00:34:10,398
Speaker 1: only been forty six of those games this year. Just

738
00:34:10,478 --> 00:34:12,838
Speaker 1: ten years ago. Again, we're not going back to Asian

739
00:34:12,918 --> 00:34:15,918
Speaker 1: ancient times, folks. Just ten years ago there were six

740
00:34:16,038 --> 00:34:18,998
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty seven of those games. The game has

741
00:34:19,158 --> 00:34:22,238
Speaker 1: changed very quickly. And one more pitching injury. You got

742
00:34:22,278 --> 00:34:25,238
Speaker 1: to mention you, darbish, Joe. I know you had him,

743
00:34:25,518 --> 00:34:28,078
Speaker 1: you like him and really nobody can spin a baseball

744
00:34:28,158 --> 00:34:30,838
Speaker 1: quite like you. Darbish, his elbow now is barking for

745
00:34:30,878 --> 00:34:33,838
Speaker 1: a San Diego team, that's just I mean, listen, they

746
00:34:33,998 --> 00:34:36,878
Speaker 1: never got on track, and now this is probably it

747
00:34:36,918 --> 00:34:37,678
Speaker 1: for the Padres.

748
00:34:37,678 --> 00:34:40,958
Speaker 2: They had a tough series against the Brewers. Now you lose, Darbish.

749
00:34:41,118 --> 00:34:42,438
Speaker 1: You know, this is the team I thought could go

750
00:34:42,518 --> 00:34:44,478
Speaker 1: to the World Series, and on paper it certainly looked

751
00:34:44,518 --> 00:34:46,558
Speaker 1: that way, Joe. But I wanted to get your thoughts

752
00:34:46,558 --> 00:34:49,398
Speaker 1: on San Diego because we use that word chemistry a lot,

753
00:34:49,758 --> 00:34:52,398
Speaker 1: and it's sort of one of these things, like you

754
00:34:52,478 --> 00:34:54,758
Speaker 1: know when you see it right, And I look at

755
00:34:54,758 --> 00:34:56,838
Speaker 1: that San Diego team and the way things have just

756
00:34:56,998 --> 00:34:58,678
Speaker 1: not come together for them, and you look at the

757
00:34:58,718 --> 00:35:02,438
Speaker 1: way they play offensive team baseball, and it's non existent.

758
00:35:02,478 --> 00:35:05,598
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you some numbers here for the Padres offense.

759
00:35:05,638 --> 00:35:08,398
Speaker 1: When they have two strikes this year, they're hitting one

760
00:35:08,518 --> 00:35:12,598
Speaker 1: sixty three. That's twenty second in baseball. You put runners

761
00:35:12,638 --> 00:35:16,478
Speaker 1: out there in scoring position, they hit two thirty. That's

762
00:35:16,558 --> 00:35:20,558
Speaker 1: twenty ninth in baseball. Only Oakland is worse. How about

763
00:35:20,838 --> 00:35:24,678
Speaker 1: late and close in games? They hit one p eighty five,

764
00:35:25,398 --> 00:35:29,238
Speaker 1: that's thirtieth in baseball. How about going to the opposite

765
00:35:29,318 --> 00:35:34,518
Speaker 1: field twenty two percent, that's twenty eighth in baseball, and

766
00:35:34,718 --> 00:35:39,038
Speaker 1: swinging at pitches in the zone. They're dead last in baseball.

767
00:35:39,158 --> 00:35:41,998
Speaker 1: So that tells you they take more strikes. I mean,

768
00:35:42,078 --> 00:35:46,718
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's across the board offensive failure. For

769
00:35:46,838 --> 00:35:52,118
Speaker 1: a team that in the last decade, Joe, they've brought

770
00:35:52,158 --> 00:35:55,918
Speaker 1: back the same hitting coach only once they've gone through

771
00:35:56,078 --> 00:35:59,558
Speaker 1: I think the number is twelve hitting coaches in ten years.

772
00:35:59,998 --> 00:36:04,478
Speaker 1: That offense is broken. They haven't played team baseball. So

773
00:36:04,598 --> 00:36:09,038
Speaker 1: despite all the names on that star studded roster, they

774
00:36:09,198 --> 00:36:14,038
Speaker 1: never played team baseball. To me, that's a lack of chemistry.

775
00:36:13,558 --> 00:36:14,278
Speaker 3: No question.

776
00:36:14,398 --> 00:36:17,478
Speaker 4: And you know people always make fun of that. We

777
00:36:17,598 --> 00:36:19,358
Speaker 4: mock what we don't understand. If you've never been in

778
00:36:19,398 --> 00:36:21,158
Speaker 4: a position that you have to create this kind of

779
00:36:21,238 --> 00:36:22,558
Speaker 4: culture chemistry.

780
00:36:22,118 --> 00:36:22,718
Speaker 3: Within a group.

781
00:36:23,238 --> 00:36:25,918
Speaker 4: You're going to say that it's winning creates the chemistry.

782
00:36:25,998 --> 00:36:28,558
Speaker 4: Winning solves all problems. But how do you get to

783
00:36:28,598 --> 00:36:32,438
Speaker 4: that particular point? And I listen, I'm a big believer

784
00:36:32,798 --> 00:36:37,078
Speaker 4: in the creation of culture and chemistry. I believe I

785
00:36:37,118 --> 00:36:38,958
Speaker 4: have methods, I have thoughts, I have ideas on how

786
00:36:38,998 --> 00:36:41,358
Speaker 4: to do that. So I think if you've never been

787
00:36:41,358 --> 00:36:45,358
Speaker 4: in that position before, you kind of make light of that.

788
00:36:45,478 --> 00:36:47,038
Speaker 4: But I'm here to tell you it is true and

789
00:36:47,078 --> 00:36:51,198
Speaker 4: it does work. Now these hitters adaptations, there's no adaptations

790
00:36:51,238 --> 00:36:54,038
Speaker 4: happening within these at bats. It's just it sounds like

791
00:36:54,038 --> 00:36:56,398
Speaker 4: a one size fits all swings and we're not really

792
00:36:56,438 --> 00:37:00,198
Speaker 4: concerned about moving the baseball in different situations, being a

793
00:37:00,238 --> 00:37:02,998
Speaker 4: tougher route. And again, that's metal We could talk about

794
00:37:03,038 --> 00:37:05,998
Speaker 4: all the physical we want. That's a mental adjustment for me.

795
00:37:06,518 --> 00:37:08,718
Speaker 3: I am going to move the ball. I am going

796
00:37:08,758 --> 00:37:10,398
Speaker 3: to hit the ball the opposite field. I am going

797
00:37:10,438 --> 00:37:11,918
Speaker 3: to get this run in somehow.

798
00:37:11,958 --> 00:37:16,238
Speaker 4: That's as pertinent as any kind of physical approach you

799
00:37:16,238 --> 00:37:17,358
Speaker 4: could possibly think of.

800
00:37:17,878 --> 00:37:20,598
Speaker 3: Last point, the firing of coaches. That always bothers me.

801
00:37:20,958 --> 00:37:24,358
Speaker 4: Now there's sometimes a coach is I don't know, really

802
00:37:24,398 --> 00:37:30,118
Speaker 4: not good at what he does? Why, disinterested? Possibly, although

803
00:37:30,158 --> 00:37:36,438
Speaker 4: I've met very few coaches that are disinterested, Maybe inability

804
00:37:36,438 --> 00:37:40,558
Speaker 4: to connect, maybe hypercritical guys that to the point where

805
00:37:40,638 --> 00:37:44,718
Speaker 4: it really beats guys down, beats down their confidence, whatever.

806
00:37:44,798 --> 00:37:47,878
Speaker 4: But I get really annoyed when I see coaches getting

807
00:37:47,918 --> 00:37:51,798
Speaker 4: fired during the course of a season. And again it's

808
00:37:51,958 --> 00:37:56,518
Speaker 4: when that happens, somebody's got to be the escape whatever.

809
00:37:56,638 --> 00:38:00,158
Speaker 4: That's fine, but I think that's overblown. I don't think

810
00:38:00,198 --> 00:38:04,958
Speaker 4: it's necessary. I think within the players themselves that's really

811
00:38:05,638 --> 00:38:08,198
Speaker 4: where the magic lies. Whether whether or not the acquisitional

812
00:38:08,238 --> 00:38:11,918
Speaker 4: process it wasn't good, we over evaluated some people, or

813
00:38:11,958 --> 00:38:15,078
Speaker 4: within the group itself, there's no real leadership. It is

814
00:38:15,118 --> 00:38:17,638
Speaker 4: a lot of dignity guys that aren't into team concepts.

815
00:38:17,678 --> 00:38:21,318
Speaker 4: There's all these things that consider but never are. So

816
00:38:21,598 --> 00:38:24,438
Speaker 4: I am not into firing coaches. I don't quite understand

817
00:38:24,478 --> 00:38:27,398
Speaker 4: that unless you've made an absolute mistake, and you'll know that.

818
00:38:27,638 --> 00:38:30,478
Speaker 4: You'll know that actually very quickly. And then when it

819
00:38:30,478 --> 00:38:34,518
Speaker 4: comes to the players themselves, it's the mental adaptations during

820
00:38:34,518 --> 00:38:37,678
Speaker 4: the season. For me, physical mechanics should be taught less

821
00:38:37,678 --> 00:38:38,238
Speaker 4: and less.

822
00:38:38,038 --> 00:38:40,238
Speaker 3: As the season goes along. In other words, you got

823
00:38:40,278 --> 00:38:41,958
Speaker 3: to talk a lot about it in spring training. I

824
00:38:41,998 --> 00:38:43,558
Speaker 3: get it. I'm in there, I was there.

825
00:38:43,918 --> 00:38:46,198
Speaker 4: I think by the end of the season, at least

826
00:38:46,238 --> 00:38:49,238
Speaker 4: seventy five percent of your teaching, maybe eighty, maybe even

827
00:38:49,278 --> 00:38:51,478
Speaker 4: more than that. It's got to be a mental approaches

828
00:38:51,558 --> 00:38:54,558
Speaker 4: compared to a physical approach. So when it comes down

829
00:38:54,998 --> 00:38:58,118
Speaker 4: to hitting coaches. You know, if the guys it's mister

830
00:38:58,118 --> 00:38:59,358
Speaker 4: Goodrich and that's all he knows.

831
00:38:59,398 --> 00:39:00,758
Speaker 3: Maybe I can see that getting old.

832
00:39:01,118 --> 00:39:03,078
Speaker 4: But when you get a nice balance with your coaches

833
00:39:03,118 --> 00:39:07,278
Speaker 4: that able to see very quickly one thought, one word

834
00:39:07,278 --> 00:39:09,638
Speaker 4: to Tom and put them back in place. But I

835
00:39:09,678 --> 00:39:13,158
Speaker 4: could repeat my mental mechanics to you daily daily. I

836
00:39:13,158 --> 00:39:15,518
Speaker 4: could come back with the mental approach to you every day,

837
00:39:15,518 --> 00:39:17,158
Speaker 4: and I'm not going to wear you out. But if

838
00:39:17,198 --> 00:39:19,278
Speaker 4: I come back with the physical approach every day, I'm

839
00:39:19,278 --> 00:39:20,038
Speaker 4: going to wear you out.

840
00:39:20,198 --> 00:39:22,278
Speaker 1: Joe, I'm glad you brought up that point about coaches

841
00:39:22,318 --> 00:39:25,598
Speaker 1: getting to blame much too quickly. I go back to

842
00:39:25,638 --> 00:39:28,758
Speaker 1: a conversation I had with Chad Mottola, the Rais hitting coach,

843
00:39:28,798 --> 00:39:31,158
Speaker 1: early in the season. The Rays were just on fire

844
00:39:31,278 --> 00:39:32,838
Speaker 1: the first couple of months in the season. They were

845
00:39:32,838 --> 00:39:36,038
Speaker 1: the best offensive team in baseball. And one of the reasons,

846
00:39:36,078 --> 00:39:38,598
Speaker 1: in his words, why they get off to a good start.

847
00:39:38,718 --> 00:39:41,998
Speaker 1: He said, listen, we have now some continuity here. You know,

848
00:39:42,038 --> 00:39:43,718
Speaker 1: the Rays, like a lot of teams, have kind of

849
00:39:43,718 --> 00:39:46,238
Speaker 1: flipped their roster a lot, but he was working with

850
00:39:46,278 --> 00:39:48,198
Speaker 1: the same group of guys and it's almost like that

851
00:39:48,278 --> 00:39:50,678
Speaker 1: college basketball coach. It's got you know, a couple of

852
00:39:50,678 --> 00:39:53,598
Speaker 1: point guards who are four year seniors. Right, You've got

853
00:39:53,598 --> 00:39:56,758
Speaker 1: things established, You've got culture established, and that matters. So

854
00:39:56,798 --> 00:39:59,958
Speaker 1: I think continuity with a staff having that message kind

855
00:40:00,038 --> 00:40:05,318
Speaker 1: of cement itself. And if you continually and you're getting

856
00:40:05,398 --> 00:40:08,158
Speaker 1: rid of coaches because you don't like the results, well

857
00:40:08,198 --> 00:40:10,238
Speaker 1: maybe that's more about your process than it is about

858
00:40:10,238 --> 00:40:12,518
Speaker 1: the coach. So I'm glad you brought that up. I'm

859
00:40:12,518 --> 00:40:15,438
Speaker 1: a big believer that there should be continuity. Like you said,

860
00:40:15,438 --> 00:40:17,558
Speaker 1: if there's certain rare cases where the guy has to

861
00:40:17,598 --> 00:40:19,798
Speaker 1: go because he's just not doing a good.

862
00:40:19,678 --> 00:40:22,398
Speaker 2: Job for whatever reason, yeah, that can happen.

863
00:40:23,638 --> 00:40:26,238
Speaker 1: But you hired a guy because you believed he's good

864
00:40:26,958 --> 00:40:29,958
Speaker 1: and knowledgeable, and you have to sometimes let these things

865
00:40:29,998 --> 00:40:30,718
Speaker 1: take root.

866
00:40:30,838 --> 00:40:33,558
Speaker 4: Just like players have to when they play with one another,

867
00:40:34,038 --> 00:40:36,838
Speaker 4: they get better as a group. But whether it's baseball, basketball,

868
00:40:36,838 --> 00:40:38,638
Speaker 4: we could talk about all different sports, the same thing

869
00:40:38,638 --> 00:40:41,078
Speaker 4: with the coaching staff. And I'm glad you brought that

870
00:40:41,158 --> 00:40:43,318
Speaker 4: up also because that is absolutely true. What Chad said

871
00:40:43,398 --> 00:40:47,518
Speaker 4: is great. It matters to the continuity within the coaching

872
00:40:47,558 --> 00:40:51,118
Speaker 4: staff when a season might break down or a player

873
00:40:51,198 --> 00:40:53,158
Speaker 4: too has a bad year. Again, somebody's got to be

874
00:40:53,198 --> 00:40:55,078
Speaker 4: blamed for this, and you never blame the player.

875
00:40:56,518 --> 00:40:57,798
Speaker 3: So I like.

876
00:40:58,398 --> 00:41:00,158
Speaker 4: I've had situations where I've been able to keep a

877
00:41:00,198 --> 00:41:03,678
Speaker 4: coaching staff together when you have as a manager enough

878
00:41:04,518 --> 00:41:07,798
Speaker 4: voice regarding who you can keep, who you cannot, who's

879
00:41:07,838 --> 00:41:09,038
Speaker 4: going to be in that room or who's not.

880
00:41:10,478 --> 00:41:12,718
Speaker 3: That I would I would always choose to keep. And

881
00:41:12,798 --> 00:41:15,158
Speaker 3: like we just you just mentioned, it has to be

882
00:41:15,238 --> 00:41:15,838
Speaker 3: a real.

883
00:41:17,678 --> 00:41:20,398
Speaker 4: Breakdown somewhere that would not would want me to not

884
00:41:20,518 --> 00:41:23,038
Speaker 4: want somebody in that room that I've had for a

885
00:41:23,078 --> 00:41:27,638
Speaker 4: couple of years. A coach's room could make and break success.

886
00:41:27,758 --> 00:41:31,118
Speaker 4: A perfect example the two thousand and two Angels. That

887
00:41:31,278 --> 00:41:34,958
Speaker 4: coaching staff for me was the best one that I've

888
00:41:34,958 --> 00:41:38,718
Speaker 4: ever been involved with from so Shawn down. And I've

889
00:41:38,718 --> 00:41:40,678
Speaker 4: had some great coaching staffs, and I've had some great

890
00:41:40,678 --> 00:41:46,878
Speaker 4: groups of Chicago, Tampa Bay and Anaheim. But that group there, Wow,

891
00:41:47,758 --> 00:41:50,278
Speaker 4: that group there made an impact on that team. That

892
00:41:50,318 --> 00:41:54,558
Speaker 4: group there, each position, each each group, each each department

893
00:41:54,638 --> 00:41:58,958
Speaker 4: head was so good at what they did. And I'll

894
00:41:58,998 --> 00:42:02,278
Speaker 4: tell you what, if you want some spirited pre series meetings,

895
00:42:02,678 --> 00:42:07,518
Speaker 4: sit in that room with Mickey Hatcher, Alfredo Griffin, Ronnie Rennicky, myself,

896
00:42:07,558 --> 00:42:10,878
Speaker 4: Buddy Black. You sit in that room, sit in that room,

897
00:42:10,998 --> 00:42:12,718
Speaker 4: and you want to hear some disagreements that I give

898
00:42:12,758 --> 00:42:15,678
Speaker 4: social credit because Sosh would take it because it would

899
00:42:15,718 --> 00:42:19,518
Speaker 4: get loud sometimes because Sosh and Ronnie and Mickey and

900
00:42:19,598 --> 00:42:22,358
Speaker 4: Alfredo had played together. So it's different. I mean, they knew,

901
00:42:22,438 --> 00:42:23,358
Speaker 4: they knew well enough.

902
00:42:23,278 --> 00:42:24,998
Speaker 3: That they can get a little bit louder than normal.

903
00:42:25,478 --> 00:42:28,078
Speaker 4: So those are the things that make a great coaching staff.

904
00:42:28,358 --> 00:42:32,918
Speaker 4: The ability to argue independently of any kind of noise

905
00:42:32,958 --> 00:42:36,398
Speaker 4: from even from upstairs or any kind of Scott and report.

906
00:42:36,678 --> 00:42:38,398
Speaker 4: That was a difference maker for us, and it was

907
00:42:38,438 --> 00:42:40,718
Speaker 4: a big part of the two thousand and two Angels

908
00:42:40,718 --> 00:42:41,598
Speaker 4: winning the World Series.

909
00:42:41,918 --> 00:42:45,158
Speaker 1: Great story, great coaching staff as well. Man, I remember

910
00:42:45,158 --> 00:42:47,718
Speaker 1: that staff. They really stood out, and not just because

911
00:42:47,758 --> 00:42:49,358
Speaker 1: they won the World Series. They were that good. And

912
00:42:49,358 --> 00:42:51,838
Speaker 1: of course many of those went on to be successful

913
00:42:51,918 --> 00:42:55,198
Speaker 1: major league managers. We're going to take one last break here, Joe,

914
00:42:55,198 --> 00:42:58,478
Speaker 1: when we get back. This is really interesting. There's something

915
00:42:58,518 --> 00:43:02,998
Speaker 1: that was said by Kelly Stafford, the wife of Bram's

916
00:43:03,078 --> 00:43:06,238
Speaker 1: quarterback Matt Matthew Stafford, that I can't wait to ask

917
00:43:06,278 --> 00:43:07,878
Speaker 1: you about Okay.

918
00:43:07,718 --> 00:43:08,398
Speaker 3: I'm curious.

919
00:43:08,438 --> 00:43:20,598
Speaker 1: Now, Hey, welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.

920
00:43:20,798 --> 00:43:24,158
Speaker 1: And it was not on another podcast where Kelly Stafford,

921
00:43:24,198 --> 00:43:28,358
Speaker 1: the wife of Rams quarterback Matthew Stafford, talked about the

922
00:43:28,518 --> 00:43:33,438
Speaker 1: disconnect between Matthew and the younger players on the team. Now,

923
00:43:33,518 --> 00:43:36,358
Speaker 1: keep this in mind, Matthew Stafford is only thirty five

924
00:43:36,438 --> 00:43:41,878
Speaker 1: years old, right, he's young, but in NFL terms, he's

925
00:43:41,918 --> 00:43:44,718
Speaker 1: not young. So he's got these twenty one twenty two

926
00:43:44,798 --> 00:43:47,598
Speaker 1: year old kids joining the team out of college, maybe

927
00:43:47,638 --> 00:43:52,678
Speaker 1: first second year. And Kelly mentioned this that he feels

928
00:43:52,798 --> 00:43:56,158
Speaker 1: like he can't connect with them. And part of the

929
00:43:56,198 --> 00:44:00,518
Speaker 1: reason why, and I'm going to oversimplify it, is the

930
00:44:00,558 --> 00:44:03,918
Speaker 1: phones that the players, these younger guys who are immediately

931
00:44:04,078 --> 00:44:08,158
Speaker 1: on their phones. Whereas Matthew Stafford came up, and again

932
00:44:08,238 --> 00:44:10,478
Speaker 1: where he's not that old, but he came up at

933
00:44:10,478 --> 00:44:14,678
Speaker 1: a time where guys after practice would sit around, they'd

934
00:44:14,678 --> 00:44:17,678
Speaker 1: play ping pong, they would talk football, they would talk

935
00:44:17,758 --> 00:44:21,078
Speaker 1: whatever it would be. And that kind of connection, at

936
00:44:21,198 --> 00:44:24,958
Speaker 1: least for Matthew Stafford, now isn't there because everybody is

937
00:44:25,078 --> 00:44:29,318
Speaker 1: retreating to their own private space with a phone. I

938
00:44:29,398 --> 00:44:32,398
Speaker 1: thought that was very fascinating Joe, I think it's a

939
00:44:32,438 --> 00:44:33,518
Speaker 1: great observation.

940
00:44:33,758 --> 00:44:36,958
Speaker 2: It's not saying that it's bad, it's worse, it's better.

941
00:44:37,198 --> 00:44:41,198
Speaker 1: It's just different in how things have changed in terms

942
00:44:41,238 --> 00:44:44,398
Speaker 1: of locker room camaraderie. You just talked about your coaching

943
00:44:44,398 --> 00:44:47,438
Speaker 1: staff with the two Angels, and I can give you

944
00:44:47,478 --> 00:44:50,598
Speaker 1: great stories about teams like the nineteen ninety three Phillies

945
00:44:50,958 --> 00:44:52,518
Speaker 1: and back in the day when they had beer in

946
00:44:52,518 --> 00:44:55,318
Speaker 1: the clubhouse, those guys would sit around after the game

947
00:44:55,478 --> 00:44:58,998
Speaker 1: and they would talk baseball for hours before they went home.

948
00:44:59,078 --> 00:45:03,078
Speaker 1: Nobody was in a hurry to leave the clubhouse. So, Joe,

949
00:45:03,118 --> 00:45:05,838
Speaker 1: you saw this hard to change. You're a guy who

950
00:45:05,878 --> 00:45:09,358
Speaker 1: started reading Millennials for Dummies to try to connect with

951
00:45:09,438 --> 00:45:12,278
Speaker 1: these guys. Give me an idea of how much a

952
00:45:12,318 --> 00:45:16,958
Speaker 1: major league clubhouse has changed in terms of connecting with

953
00:45:17,038 --> 00:45:17,798
Speaker 1: the younger player.

954
00:45:18,118 --> 00:45:23,038
Speaker 4: Well, it's all true regarding what Stafford had said. I mean,

955
00:45:23,478 --> 00:45:25,758
Speaker 4: but it's not just in a major league clubhouse or

956
00:45:25,798 --> 00:45:29,918
Speaker 4: in an NFL locker room. At society in general, conversation

957
00:45:30,278 --> 00:45:33,838
Speaker 4: has gone by the wayside and everybody wants to communicate

958
00:45:33,878 --> 00:45:36,678
Speaker 4: through thumbs. And I hope this the story applies. But

959
00:45:36,718 --> 00:45:38,598
Speaker 4: a couple of years ago. I wanted it.

960
00:45:38,638 --> 00:45:38,998
Speaker 3: I did.

961
00:45:39,078 --> 00:45:41,998
Speaker 4: I did do like a fraternity party at Lafayette before

962
00:45:42,038 --> 00:45:44,678
Speaker 4: the loafayat Lee High game, and I wanted to support

963
00:45:44,678 --> 00:45:46,798
Speaker 4: of the school. And I got to know the president,

964
00:45:46,838 --> 00:45:49,758
Speaker 4: Alison Barley at the time, and I told Alison what

965
00:45:49,758 --> 00:45:51,638
Speaker 4: I'd like to do, and I wanted to get a

966
00:45:51,678 --> 00:45:53,878
Speaker 4: lot of the students to attend this party because they

967
00:45:53,878 --> 00:45:57,038
Speaker 4: hadn't really been doing that, and she kind of snickered

968
00:45:57,038 --> 00:45:58,958
Speaker 4: at me, but she was into it, but she said,

969
00:45:59,318 --> 00:46:03,158
Speaker 4: it's hard to get them to leave their the domicile

970
00:46:03,158 --> 00:46:06,078
Speaker 4: there there they're doing whatever because all they want to

971
00:46:06,078 --> 00:46:10,638
Speaker 4: do is communicate via their cell phones. To go out

972
00:46:10,798 --> 00:46:15,238
Speaker 4: and socialize in a fraternity house or anywhere on campus

973
00:46:15,278 --> 00:46:18,038
Speaker 4: orrock campus was a thing of the past because they

974
00:46:18,118 --> 00:46:20,678
Speaker 4: just they don't know how to interact. They really don't

975
00:46:20,678 --> 00:46:22,878
Speaker 4: know how to communicate with one another face to face

976
00:46:22,958 --> 00:46:25,438
Speaker 4: because it's all done via technology.

977
00:46:25,998 --> 00:46:26,278
Speaker 3: Now.

978
00:46:26,518 --> 00:46:28,238
Speaker 4: You know, it's maybe not as severe in a major

979
00:46:28,318 --> 00:46:31,118
Speaker 4: league locker room, because of course there's some face to face,

980
00:46:31,158 --> 00:46:34,078
Speaker 4: but I think they've been so this particular age group

981
00:46:34,118 --> 00:46:39,038
Speaker 4: has been so trained to utilize this this little device

982
00:46:39,398 --> 00:46:43,398
Speaker 4: to communicate, and that's what they pretty much do postgame.

983
00:46:44,318 --> 00:46:47,238
Speaker 3: Guys used to go out. You talk about that coaching

984
00:46:47,238 --> 00:46:48,478
Speaker 3: staff with the Angels.

985
00:46:48,118 --> 00:46:50,518
Speaker 4: Man, we went out almost every night on the road,

986
00:46:51,158 --> 00:46:52,798
Speaker 4: just tug out, you know, just talked a lot, a

987
00:46:52,798 --> 00:46:55,358
Speaker 4: little couple of beers, whatever. But now they may go

988
00:46:55,478 --> 00:46:58,038
Speaker 4: to one of the guy's rooms and play video games.

989
00:46:58,278 --> 00:46:59,838
Speaker 4: That's a big thing right now, and at least I

990
00:46:59,958 --> 00:47:03,318
Speaker 4: like that from that social perspective. It's not the post

991
00:47:03,358 --> 00:47:06,158
Speaker 4: game in the clubhouse. We got to stay here and

992
00:47:06,198 --> 00:47:09,198
Speaker 4: talk and have a beer whatever. That's pretty much gone

993
00:47:09,598 --> 00:47:12,038
Speaker 4: by the wayside. But it is at least go back

994
00:47:12,078 --> 00:47:14,878
Speaker 4: to the hotel and get in a room and play

995
00:47:14,958 --> 00:47:18,038
Speaker 4: video games whatever. But at least there's some that part

996
00:47:18,038 --> 00:47:23,278
Speaker 4: of socialization. It's every generation, if we want to. My

997
00:47:23,358 --> 00:47:25,158
Speaker 4: dad hated it what I did. My dad did not

998
00:47:25,238 --> 00:47:27,278
Speaker 4: like my hair, he did not like, you know, what

999
00:47:27,358 --> 00:47:29,718
Speaker 4: I did back in the day. And it's the way

1000
00:47:29,758 --> 00:47:33,518
Speaker 4: we're in my uniform whatever. It's just it's it's all generational.

1001
00:47:33,598 --> 00:47:34,798
Speaker 4: So I don't I don't worry.

1002
00:47:34,598 --> 00:47:35,558
Speaker 3: About that as much.

1003
00:47:35,958 --> 00:47:39,038
Speaker 4: And when I got done with the Millennials for Dummies thing,

1004
00:47:39,078 --> 00:47:42,518
Speaker 4: I realized and it just comes down to communication regardless.

1005
00:47:44,038 --> 00:47:45,838
Speaker 4: So I would attempt to text more I would, you know,

1006
00:47:45,918 --> 00:47:46,558
Speaker 4: different things I.

1007
00:47:46,518 --> 00:47:49,718
Speaker 3: Was sending, like guys emails with photographs that I would

1008
00:47:50,078 --> 00:47:51,318
Speaker 3: capture on video.

1009
00:47:51,478 --> 00:47:53,478
Speaker 4: With their hitting as an example, or something that I

1010
00:47:53,518 --> 00:47:55,398
Speaker 4: saw that I thought they needed to address, So I

1011
00:47:55,398 --> 00:47:58,678
Speaker 4: would communicate with them text wise or email wise so

1012
00:47:58,758 --> 00:48:01,398
Speaker 4: that they could technologically see what I was talking about.

1013
00:48:02,038 --> 00:48:02,878
Speaker 3: And I thought that.

1014
00:48:02,718 --> 00:48:05,998
Speaker 4: That would maybe make it easier and more acceptable to

1015
00:48:06,038 --> 00:48:09,558
Speaker 4: have that face to face conversation. So it's really the same,

1016
00:48:09,718 --> 00:48:13,878
Speaker 4: and it's really different. How do you communicate as human being?

1017
00:48:13,918 --> 00:48:13,958
Speaker 3: Me?

1018
00:48:14,158 --> 00:48:16,878
Speaker 4: How do you and I think we got If you

1019
00:48:16,998 --> 00:48:19,398
Speaker 4: have skills with that, you still bring it to bear.

1020
00:48:19,478 --> 00:48:21,558
Speaker 4: You still bring what you now knowing what you feel

1021
00:48:21,558 --> 00:48:25,118
Speaker 4: is the right way to do it, but be ready

1022
00:48:25,158 --> 00:48:28,558
Speaker 4: and able to adapt to the other way too, because

1023
00:48:29,278 --> 00:48:33,278
Speaker 4: they get everything they being the millennial group gen Z,

1024
00:48:33,438 --> 00:48:38,078
Speaker 4: whatever they get, their communication needs to be done that

1025
00:48:38,118 --> 00:48:40,038
Speaker 4: way because that's what they've learned how to do.

1026
00:48:40,798 --> 00:48:42,438
Speaker 3: Agree with it, don't agree with it, I don't care.

1027
00:48:42,558 --> 00:48:44,278
Speaker 3: It's just the way it is. So for me, it

1028
00:48:44,318 --> 00:48:46,238
Speaker 3: was about adaptability and I tried to do that.

1029
00:48:46,438 --> 00:48:49,478
Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe, I think your twenty sixteen Cubs team, and

1030
00:48:49,478 --> 00:48:51,758
Speaker 1: again not just because they won a World championship but

1031
00:48:52,598 --> 00:48:55,318
Speaker 1: that was the epitome of team chemistry, right, and probably

1032
00:48:55,358 --> 00:48:58,198
Speaker 1: the Game seven meeting with Jason Hayward getting the team together,

1033
00:48:58,278 --> 00:49:01,958
Speaker 1: where you know, the players under your guidance were empowered

1034
00:49:01,998 --> 00:49:04,278
Speaker 1: to do something like that on their own, whereas and

1035
00:49:04,318 --> 00:49:07,478
Speaker 1: this is no knock on Cleveland. I remember Francisco Lindor

1036
00:49:07,598 --> 00:49:10,438
Speaker 1: telling me the story that during that delay, they all

1037
00:49:10,478 --> 00:49:12,598
Speaker 1: just kind of retreated to their own spaces. He went

1038
00:49:12,678 --> 00:49:14,478
Speaker 1: back into the weight room and took a little bit

1039
00:49:14,518 --> 00:49:17,078
Speaker 1: of a nap. He looked up and he saw the

1040
00:49:17,078 --> 00:49:21,558
Speaker 1: plastic protective sheets over the lockers in case that Cleveland

1041
00:49:21,598 --> 00:49:24,318
Speaker 1: won the championship, which was kind of a just bad karma,

1042
00:49:24,358 --> 00:49:27,518
Speaker 1: I guess. But he said, we should have gotten together

1043
00:49:28,038 --> 00:49:31,918
Speaker 1: and talked among ourselves, like hey, let's reset, and they

1044
00:49:31,998 --> 00:49:34,278
Speaker 1: just kind of didn't. So and it's not a knock

1045
00:49:34,318 --> 00:49:36,718
Speaker 1: on Cleveland. That's probably the natural reaction when the game

1046
00:49:36,798 --> 00:49:38,918
Speaker 1: hits a pause like that. But to your guys credit,

1047
00:49:39,278 --> 00:49:41,358
Speaker 1: and it didn't happen by accident. You know this, Joe,

1048
00:49:41,358 --> 00:49:44,118
Speaker 1: that there was enough invested person into person, player to

1049
00:49:44,158 --> 00:49:46,878
Speaker 1: player in the course of six months that not just

1050
00:49:47,038 --> 00:49:49,478
Speaker 1: enabled that to happen, but made it happen.

1051
00:49:49,678 --> 00:49:53,238
Speaker 4: One hundred percent. I agree with that totally. You threw

1052
00:49:53,238 --> 00:49:56,838
Speaker 4: out Jason's name right there. I don't remember which spring

1053
00:49:56,878 --> 00:50:01,318
Speaker 4: trending was specifically, but I was attempting to purchase a

1054
00:50:01,438 --> 00:50:05,038
Speaker 4: phone booth, an old school phone booth, from eBay somewhere

1055
00:50:05,038 --> 00:50:06,998
Speaker 4: in Texas. I was going to have it sent there,

1056
00:50:07,118 --> 00:50:09,358
Speaker 4: and if you had to make a phone call, I

1057
00:50:09,398 --> 00:50:10,878
Speaker 4: was going to try to get it set up somehow.

1058
00:50:11,918 --> 00:50:13,278
Speaker 3: Then you had to go to that phone booth to

1059
00:50:13,318 --> 00:50:14,118
Speaker 3: make the phone call.

1060
00:50:14,278 --> 00:50:16,238
Speaker 4: So just like kind of like limit your ability to

1061
00:50:16,278 --> 00:50:19,358
Speaker 4: do that ab I also talked to Jason about how

1062
00:50:19,398 --> 00:50:21,678
Speaker 4: about if we did this. When you check in the morning,

1063
00:50:21,798 --> 00:50:24,198
Speaker 4: you turn in your cell phone, you give it to VJ.

1064
00:50:24,398 --> 00:50:26,158
Speaker 4: We put it in a lock box, and you cannot

1065
00:50:26,198 --> 00:50:28,038
Speaker 4: pick it up until you leave at the end of

1066
00:50:28,078 --> 00:50:30,678
Speaker 4: the day. And if there's any kind of an emergency,

1067
00:50:30,718 --> 00:50:36,678
Speaker 4: you give your give your wife, whatever, your vj's phone umber,

1068
00:50:36,718 --> 00:50:39,158
Speaker 4: they could call in a case of emergency. I still

1069
00:50:39,158 --> 00:50:40,558
Speaker 4: would like to do that. I mean, if I ever

1070
00:50:40,598 --> 00:50:42,398
Speaker 4: get an opportunity again, I want to bring that up.

1071
00:50:42,718 --> 00:50:45,118
Speaker 4: You walk in the door, let's check these things in.

1072
00:50:45,438 --> 00:50:47,518
Speaker 4: Here's a number to give to people that are important

1073
00:50:47,518 --> 00:50:49,878
Speaker 4: to you that to call if in fact something is

1074
00:50:49,918 --> 00:50:54,238
Speaker 4: an emergency and see if we can just live communicatively

1075
00:50:54,838 --> 00:50:57,638
Speaker 4: the old fashioned way by talking to somebody eyeball to eyeball.

1076
00:50:57,918 --> 00:50:59,838
Speaker 4: And Jason was all into it. He thought it was

1077
00:50:59,838 --> 00:51:02,918
Speaker 4: a great idea and I just never got around to

1078
00:51:02,958 --> 00:51:06,118
Speaker 4: getting it done. My fault, my bad, as they say, so, yeah,

1079
00:51:06,158 --> 00:51:10,758
Speaker 4: it's an interesting thing, and to empower people to feel comfortable.

1080
00:51:10,758 --> 00:51:12,838
Speaker 3: Doing that, knowing that I wouldn't care. I mean, of

1081
00:51:12,878 --> 00:51:14,918
Speaker 3: course I want you to do that. Do we have

1082
00:51:14,918 --> 00:51:16,398
Speaker 3: to go ask Joe to do that? And of course not.

1083
00:51:17,118 --> 00:51:18,038
Speaker 3: You guys are grown ups.

1084
00:51:18,038 --> 00:51:21,318
Speaker 4: You guys are guys A Major leaguers. You guys have families,

1085
00:51:21,358 --> 00:51:24,558
Speaker 4: your fathers. Go do it if you see that as

1086
00:51:24,598 --> 00:51:27,398
Speaker 4: being necessary, So you're right. I was pleased that Jason

1087
00:51:27,478 --> 00:51:30,998
Speaker 4: felt comfortable doing that. Ab at some point I'd like

1088
00:51:30,998 --> 00:51:32,478
Speaker 4: to see the check into the cell phone as you

1089
00:51:32,558 --> 00:51:33,478
Speaker 4: walk into the clubhouse.

1090
00:51:34,158 --> 00:51:38,118
Speaker 1: Very interesting, a great idea. It'd be hard to pull off,

1091
00:51:38,158 --> 00:51:39,758
Speaker 1: but I like the way you think.

1092
00:51:39,918 --> 00:51:40,518
Speaker 2: As usual.

1093
00:51:40,798 --> 00:51:42,718
Speaker 1: Hey, Joe, this is why we call this the most

1094
00:51:42,718 --> 00:51:46,358
Speaker 1: interesting podcast on the planet, because man, we had some

1095
00:51:46,438 --> 00:51:49,878
Speaker 1: deep dives today, so the pressure's on you to take

1096
00:51:49,958 --> 00:51:53,358
Speaker 1: us out with something worthy of this episode.

1097
00:51:53,558 --> 00:51:56,758
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think it works for mister Jackie Robinson

1098
00:51:57,838 --> 00:52:01,038
Speaker 4: really talked about this a lot. Read Lee Low and

1099
00:52:01,038 --> 00:52:04,118
Speaker 4: Fish's book about the ferocious gentleman mister Branch Ricky.

1100
00:52:03,958 --> 00:52:06,838
Speaker 5: And I was so impressed with that, and it took

1101
00:52:06,878 --> 00:52:09,118
Speaker 5: me back in time to the you know, nineteen sixteen

1102
00:52:09,238 --> 00:52:12,038
Speaker 5: or so, I think, when Ricky was a player coach

1103
00:52:12,078 --> 00:52:14,078
Speaker 5: and player manager with the Saint Louis Browns until he

1104
00:52:14,118 --> 00:52:16,478
Speaker 5: got to the Cardinals eventually, and of course him and

1105
00:52:16,558 --> 00:52:20,318
Speaker 5: Jackie Robinson, and you would imagine that this quote comes

1106
00:52:20,358 --> 00:52:22,158
Speaker 5: from Jackie himself, and God, I wish I.

1107
00:52:22,078 --> 00:52:25,878
Speaker 4: Had met this man, but I think it applies kind

1108
00:52:25,878 --> 00:52:27,918
Speaker 4: of what we're talking about. A life is not important

1109
00:52:27,918 --> 00:52:31,478
Speaker 4: except in the impact it has on other lives. A

1110
00:52:31,478 --> 00:52:33,518
Speaker 4: life is not important except in the impact it has

1111
00:52:33,558 --> 00:52:38,318
Speaker 4: another lives. Communication, getting to know one another, good deeds,

1112
00:52:38,518 --> 00:52:43,118
Speaker 4: great culture, all these different things. So that's what we need,

1113
00:52:43,918 --> 00:52:45,918
Speaker 4: not only in the game but everywhere else in our lives,

1114
00:52:47,078 --> 00:52:49,118
Speaker 4: you know, to get out there and actually go eyeball

1115
00:52:49,158 --> 00:52:53,038
Speaker 4: to eyeball in a conversation, sits socially, have a pretty

1116
00:52:53,038 --> 00:52:54,958
Speaker 4: good time, and it just could just be about having

1117
00:52:54,958 --> 00:52:57,518
Speaker 4: a pretty good time. I'd love to see more of that.

1118
00:52:57,638 --> 00:53:00,158
Speaker 4: I try to nurture that here in Sugar Loafe. I

1119
00:53:00,158 --> 00:53:02,918
Speaker 4: got a great patio. I've had a lot of folks

1120
00:53:02,918 --> 00:53:05,398
Speaker 4: over the course of this summer, just for if you're

1121
00:53:05,398 --> 00:53:08,158
Speaker 4: out of the keg Raider, maybe a burger, maybe a

1122
00:53:08,198 --> 00:53:11,398
Speaker 4: pizza night whatever, watching a ballgame outside on a tube.

1123
00:53:12,318 --> 00:53:14,558
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have to communicate. The impact we have another

1124
00:53:14,638 --> 00:53:15,598
Speaker 3: lives really sets us.

1125
00:53:15,558 --> 00:53:19,558
Speaker 2: Apart, truly, words to live by. Thanks Joe, We'll see

1126
00:53:19,598 --> 00:53:20,118
Speaker 2: you next time.

1127
00:53:20,438 --> 00:53:23,758
Speaker 4: It's my pleasure brother, see you bye.

1128
00:53:27,918 --> 00:53:31,118
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1129
00:53:31,358 --> 00:53:36,238
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1130
00:53:36,478 --> 00:53:38,238
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