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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Congressman Jamie Raskin has announced his cancers.

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Speaker 2: In remission, we have a jam pack show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Joyce Fance, who co hosts the Sisters in Law podcast,

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Speaker 1: will bring us up to date on the many many

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Speaker 1: lawsuits surrounding are politicians, mostly just Trump though, and the

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Speaker 1: Egene Carol case.

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Speaker 2: Then we'll talk to The New York Times.

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Speaker 1: Hannah Dreyer about her blockbuster reporting on child labor across

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Speaker 1: the United States. But first we have Rolling Stone editor

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Speaker 1: in chief Noah Shackman. Welcome to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 3: Now, Hi, Hi, before.

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Speaker 1: We start having a fancy interview, you are the reason

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Speaker 1: that I have a podcast.

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Speaker 3: No, you're the reason you have a podcast. You said, YO,

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Speaker 3: give me a fucking podcast or else, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: that's a terrible idea, and you were like, if you don't,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to burn down Brooklyn. And so we did

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Speaker 3: a bunch of them. We did a bunch of demos,

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Speaker 3: and we did a bunch of stuff and I was like, uh,

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Speaker 3: Molly's so awesome, fine order of bone and then.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about I want to start with got

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Speaker 1: to Grow to Stay alive, because I think about, like,

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Speaker 1: you've now been at Rolling Stone, what a year and

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Speaker 1: a half?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not quite, but around there.

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Speaker 1: You kind of brought that same Daily Beast ethos to

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Speaker 1: Rolling Stone in a totally different way.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think part of it is that, you know,

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Speaker 3: when I was at the Daily Beast, we kind of

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Speaker 3: stole from old Rolling Stone DNA, and so I'm kind

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Speaker 3: of just returning the DNA back to its host. And

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Speaker 3: that's like there's a combination of politics and pop culture,

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Speaker 3: which you know, you and I both love. There's a

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Speaker 3: you don't give a spirit, which I know we both

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Speaker 3: love too, and there's also a respect for great journalism,

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Speaker 3: and so you kind of do all those things and

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Speaker 3: you wind up with a pretty good mix.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, like, where does traffic come from?

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Speaker 3: Where does traffic come from?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So, I mean part of it is, right, one

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Speaker 2: of the things you've done since you've been at Rolling Stone.

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Speaker 1: Is that you've gotten people back to Rolling Stone, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, traffic is up, but traffic is

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Speaker 3: basically just a function of are we doing stuff that's

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Speaker 3: hot or not are we doing reporting that's good? And

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Speaker 3: you know there's there are bad ways to get traffic,

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Speaker 3: right if we wanted to just like as you can imagine, right,

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Speaker 3: Rolling Stone ranks very high on Google for like Paul

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Speaker 3: McCartney and Mick Jagger, and so if we wanted to

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Speaker 3: just write about the Rolling Stones and the Beatles all day,

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Speaker 3: we would probably get even better traffic, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean, because Google would keep feeding it to us.

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Speaker 3: But you know, like Rolling Stone has ultimately got to

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Speaker 3: be about you know, what's happening in pop culture and

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Speaker 3: politics now, not be the museum of rock and roll.

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Speaker 3: And so I've actually made a bunch of decisions that

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Speaker 3: are probably like on their face, bad for traffic, but

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Speaker 3: you know, ultimately are better for the operation. And so

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Speaker 3: you know, if you look at our covers or you

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Speaker 3: look at for profiling, it's not your articles Rolling Stone,

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Speaker 3: it's your kids anyway. And on the traffic question, you know,

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Speaker 3: we get traffic from old variety of sources and it's like,

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Speaker 3: you know, you get original information and cool shit. You

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Speaker 3: know the traffic will come from it.

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Speaker 1: So much we talk about traffic as like a pejorative thing,

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Speaker 1: or it tends to have a perjorative connotation. But as

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Speaker 1: a writer, I mean, if somebody doesn't read it, then

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Speaker 1: what are we even doing?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's definitely some of that, But you know,

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Speaker 3: you don't want to tie it too closely, right, because

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Speaker 3: there are sometimes when you know, the thing you fart

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Speaker 3: out happens to catch, like the particular algorithm. Therefore you

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Speaker 3: get a lot of traffic, whereas something you work hard

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Speaker 3: on doesn't always, And so there's a lot of different

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Speaker 3: ways to get recognition. For example, we did this super long,

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Speaker 3: deep dive investigative piece about a Serbian war criminal back

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Speaker 3: in the nineties who had turned out had a very

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Speaker 3: lucrative djaying career in the techno scene.

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Speaker 2: It hits all the metrics.

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Speaker 3: Right Yeah, no, but I'm just saying so, like that story,

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Speaker 3: like in terms of traffic, was a total bomb, right,

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Speaker 3: But we just won a national magazine award for it.

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Speaker 3: We just were the finalist for an Overseas Press Club

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Speaker 3: Award with it. Done a lot of stuff and in

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Speaker 3: that community it's been hugely successful. And so would I

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Speaker 3: do a story again called the dj as a war criminal? Fuck? Yes,

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Speaker 3: you know, even though it didn't get like, it didn't

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Speaker 3: blow up on Twitter or whatever.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the most recent piece

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Speaker 1: that I've read that was kind of mind blowing about

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Speaker 1: the total cross and appo file.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's mind blowing, but it also makes total sense.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it totally makes sense.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, I mean Fox has a long history that

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Speaker 3: everybody can look up about keeping basically oppo research files

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Speaker 3: on their biggest stories to keep those stars in check

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Speaker 3: and to make sure that they didn't talk against the company.

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Speaker 3: And those are kept by a woman named Arena Briganti,

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Speaker 3: who is the well known multi decade fear closed, terrified

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Speaker 3: of head of PR for Fox News. She is one

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Speaker 3: of the most powerful people at the networks, you know,

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Speaker 3: right right up there at the top. And so we

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Speaker 3: broke a story a couple of days ago about how

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Speaker 3: how Arena in our shop had kept an opposition research

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Speaker 3: file one Tucker Carlson and had for a long time

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Speaker 3: and had that information, you know, sort of at the

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Speaker 3: ready in case he decided to start shitting on the

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Speaker 3: bosses or shitting on the networks. Whether that oppo file

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Speaker 3: is the same thing as these anonymous leaks that are

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Speaker 3: coming out saying that Tucker said all kinds of racist

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Speaker 3: and sexist and horrible things in text messages. Right.

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Speaker 2: We don't know, right, we don't know.

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Speaker 3: Whether those are the same things or whether those are

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Speaker 3: different things. I think you can imagine if there's an

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Speaker 3: Apple file on Chucker, Like, it feels like the opportunities

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Speaker 3: for there to be bad stuff and there feel numerous

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Speaker 3: considering everything he does that's so vile, Like in public.

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Speaker 1: Right after you published a story, did Arena Burganti call

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Speaker 1: you and scream at you? She didn't, So does that

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Speaker 1: mean that like there's going to be a horse's head

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Speaker 1: in your bed?

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Speaker 2: Or I mean, is that a worse sign?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good question. Ordinarily Fox reaches out about

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Speaker 3: the smallest slight, right, right, I mean they issued a

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Speaker 3: denial to be clear, you know, they issued it on

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Speaker 3: the record denial. I think there's two interpretations. One is

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Speaker 3: they're so busy with other stuff and they're so fighting

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Speaker 3: in coming that they don't have time to bother with

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Speaker 3: little rolling style, or they are so or there's there's

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Speaker 3: nothing I can.

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Speaker 2: Say because it's true, Because it's true. Yeah, it does

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Speaker 2: seem like eight sources seems like a lot of sources.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we had eight sources for the story that does

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Speaker 3: seem like a lot, And I would say since then,

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Speaker 3: we've heard from others that confirm the same stuff. So

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Speaker 3: it is kind of an open secret at Fox.

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Speaker 1: And there's probably APO files on a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what we know from Roger Ayle's time was

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Speaker 1: that that was sort of how they did it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it stated operating procedure, and this was true on

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Speaker 3: Bill O'Reilly and Stewart Party and those kinds of people,

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Speaker 3: And so I'd be shocked if they didn't have one

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Speaker 3: on everyone.

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Speaker 1: I want to like kind of get you to speculate

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Speaker 1: for a minute on the future of Tucker Carlson.

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Speaker 2: Yow.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to do this to you because it's me,

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Speaker 1: but it's also we're interested. Like part of me thinks, like,

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Speaker 1: this guy is so singularly powerful and dangerous because he's smart,

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Speaker 1: because he really does speak to a group that is

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Speaker 1: willing to do anything for him. Yeah, part of me thinks, like,

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Speaker 1: could he could go off and do some really destructive things.

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Speaker 1: But then part of me thinks, like, what happened to

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Speaker 1: Bill O'Reilly, what happened to Glenn Back?

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Speaker 3: Well, Glenn Back, you know, continue to operate a media

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Speaker 3: company still continues to for a long time.

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Speaker 2: Right, but he's not the figure he once was.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Bill O'Reilly continues to drink beer and cry in

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Speaker 3: his corn beef with Tucker look at I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I would say that though. Unlike those other two people,

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Speaker 3: he has both like huge mainstream media connections, and he's

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Speaker 3: got a coterie of followers not only on the right

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Speaker 3: and befar right, but on a group of people that

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Speaker 3: formerly identified themselves as being part of the left right.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's sort of a tulsy gabbered section of

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Speaker 3: people that at least cosplayed as being on the left

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Speaker 3: that I think would follow Tucker into the gates of hell.

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Speaker 3: So I do think that makes him a rather different figure. Honestly,

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Speaker 3: if I were him, I would try to mess around

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Speaker 3: with another network or do you anything like that, Like

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Speaker 3: any other network is going to make him look small,

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Speaker 3: And I would go to Rumble basically and do a

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Speaker 3: video show from there. And I'm sure raake in the

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Speaker 3: bucks That's what I would do if I were him.

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Speaker 3: I know there's talk about him running for office.

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Speaker 2: Why would anyone do that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I don't even understand the upside of

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Speaker 3: it for him, The guy like just kind of stays

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Speaker 3: in his house and can be very rich and very

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Speaker 3: powerful that way. Running for office seems like way too.

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Speaker 2: Much work, right, That is my sense too.

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Speaker 1: But when you saw that video of him last night,

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Speaker 1: do you watch that video?

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Speaker 3: I did.

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Speaker 2: He has this stick.

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Speaker 1: Which is has worked very well for him and is

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Speaker 1: very appealing to the Fox audience. But I mean, we

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Speaker 1: don't know again what his noncompete is, and we also

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Speaker 1: don't know what his Like I wondered how much NDA

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Speaker 1: there was there, right because he didn't mention Fox.

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Speaker 3: I would be shocked if there was some kind of

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Speaker 3: contractual mechanism that was keeping him speaking out against Fox

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Speaker 3: in public. It would be shocked if that was my case,

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Speaker 3: at least for a time, at least for six months

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Speaker 3: or a year or whatever, until Rupert comes back from

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Speaker 3: the dead. But I got to say, you know, if

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Speaker 3: you had never heard of Tucker Carlson before, like if

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Speaker 3: you didn't know what pure evil this guy was peddling,

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Speaker 3: I don't know you'd listened that two minutes and to

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Speaker 3: be like, yeah, that's fucking right. There is a place

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Speaker 3: for truth in this world, and there is a place

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Speaker 3: for open debate, and yeah, totally and I got to say,

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Speaker 3: I was like watching my video last night on my

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Speaker 3: phone while waiting for my kid's courus recital. It was

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Speaker 3: kind of weird. I was in a middle school in Manhattan.

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Speaker 3: It's a strange juxtaposition. And I was thinking to myself, Man,

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Speaker 3: this guy is good. He's really good. He is he

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Speaker 3: is really good at the demagoguery. He is excellent at

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Speaker 3: it because he builds a persuasive case for absolutely terrible stuff.

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Speaker 1: I thought the vagueness hurt him, like he's so vague

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Speaker 1: part of what he does successfully and again this is

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Speaker 1: not and in no way as a compliment, is that

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Speaker 1: he sort of picks a target and focuses on that

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Speaker 1: and he can't really do that right now.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. To me, I sort of read it

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Speaker 3: the other way, which was like the vagueness of it

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Speaker 3: allowed him to sort of mold together Fox and you know,

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Speaker 3: the non crazy part of the media into a giant

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Speaker 3: other that he could then attack and really set himself apart,

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Speaker 3: and kind of due to Fox, with Fox into the

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Speaker 3: mainstream media, which is to say, like you can't trust them,

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Speaker 3: but you can only trust me, and now give me money.

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Speaker 1: Right, that will be the question what scoops are coming

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Speaker 1: at in Rolling Stone that we need to read right now.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I'd be happy to tell you about everything that

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Speaker 3: we've got coming up.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, just everything before it's gone through illegal just

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Speaker 1: tell us now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate that. Well, I would say this is

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Speaker 3: not necessarily the fast politics overlap you were expecting. I'd say, like,

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Speaker 3: our exclusive with Kesha this week was awesome. I love Kesha,

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Speaker 3: And we had a very funny exclusive with this pop

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Speaker 3: star and great songwriter named Bedie Reksha, who our writer

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Speaker 3: gave the classic Rolling Stone assignment and they went to

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Speaker 3: a dispensary and in Los Angeles and got high as

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Speaker 3: fucked together and talked about music and life. I really

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Speaker 3: liked all that. Yeah, we've got to really true. She's

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Speaker 3: stuff coming up that I'm not going to tell you about.

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Speaker 3: Don't work.

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Speaker 2: I mean, come on, come on, just give us something.

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Speaker 3: No nothing, huh, it's some stuff about you know things.

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Speaker 2: Is there more coming about this APPO file?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean obviously we're trying to dig up more

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Speaker 3: on that if we had it nailed down and be

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Speaker 3: published already, because it's a super competitive story. If you

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Speaker 3: just think about it, there's definitely other shoes to drop

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Speaker 3: in Fox on the dominion fallout, if you just think

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Speaker 3: it through, I think there's going to be more there,

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Speaker 3: and we're trying to shake that loose. We are working

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Speaker 3: on some interesting stories about your president, Donald J. D. Trump.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the best, Yeah, he is the best. Tell

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Speaker 3: me more turns out even best er than you thought.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe you.

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Speaker 3: That's our story. Yeah, So we've got a lot of

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Speaker 3: stuff on that. This isn't something I've got to sign,

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Speaker 3: but I think there's a lot of work to be

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Speaker 3: done on this. Inability of the baby boomers to kind

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Speaker 3: of just let it go and the real gracelessness with

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Speaker 3: which some of these powerful boomers are aging is really

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Speaker 3: tough to handle it. You know, it wouldn't be so

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Speaker 3: bad except that these people are still holding on to

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Speaker 3: incredible reins of power. Whether we're talking about Murdock, you know,

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Speaker 3: whether we're talking about Trump, talking about Diane Feinstein, or

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Speaker 3: you know, frankly about Biden. I just think it's it's

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Speaker 3: insane that he's running again personally, and I think he's

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Speaker 3: done a great job as president personally as a citizen.

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Speaker 3: But the idea that this guy could be one heart

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Speaker 3: attackle one stroke from handing the presidency back to Trump

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Speaker 3: is just nuts. It's really your response. So I definitely

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Speaker 3: want to dig in on that issue.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 3: Oh my God, my pleasure. Ananta.

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Speaker 1: Joyce Vance is an MSNBC contributor and the host of

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Speaker 1: the podcast Sisters in Law and Cafe Insider Welcome Too

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Speaker 1: Fast Politics.

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Speaker 4: Joyce Vance, Good morning, Mollie.

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Speaker 1: I'm so delighted to have you, and I think of

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Speaker 1: you as like a friend, a genius, a legal expert,

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot of legal shit going on right now.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you the first thing, the thing

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Speaker 1: that's top of mind to me right now, And perhaps

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Speaker 1: because I was named checked this morning and it is

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Speaker 1: the Egene Carol case, it strikes me that there are

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Speaker 1: some very hopeful things about this case, but also some

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Speaker 1: really tough parts of this case.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think that's exactly the right way to look at it.

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Speaker 4: I mean, this this is a case about defamation involving

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Speaker 4: a former president who in twenty twenty two made ugly

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Speaker 4: comments about Egen Carroll over her allegation that he had

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Speaker 4: raped her in the mid nineteen nineties, and so she

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Speaker 4: sues for defamation, but also for battery, which is sort

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Speaker 4: of the civil equivalent of assault, under a newly passed

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Speaker 4: statute in New York that lets adult survivors of sexual

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Speaker 4: abuse bring civil cases that would otherwise be barred by

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Speaker 4: the statute of limitations the time you have to sue.

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Speaker 4: So here Egen Carroll is in court, and on the

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Speaker 4: one hand, it's this tremendous moment where the former president

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Speaker 4: may finally be held accountable for the horrendous conduct that

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Speaker 4: he has displayed against a number of women over the years,

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Speaker 4: never been held to account. But at the same time,

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Speaker 4: it's this tremendously painful moment where you know, we are

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Speaker 4: seeing what women in America go through every day. This decision.

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Speaker 4: Do I report this kind of incident? Maybe I don't,

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Speaker 4: because powerful men can do damaging things to women who

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Speaker 4: make these sorts of allegations and bring them to light.

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Speaker 4: But Egene Carroll is particularly strong. And although we can't

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Speaker 4: watch the trial, there are no cameras in federal courts,

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Speaker 4: which is sort of a favorite bugaboo of mine, but

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Speaker 4: there are people inside the courtroom who are live tweeting.

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Speaker 4: Carol is just a woman who is remarkably brave.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That was the thing that I was struck by was

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Speaker 1: when she was talking about the abuse. You know, we

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Speaker 1: don't talk about the abuse that much, the sort of

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Speaker 1: online abuse.

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Speaker 2: What happens when we are targeted.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've had that experience, but I

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Speaker 1: certainly have had the experience of being targeted by those trolls.

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Speaker 1: And even though like on some level you saying, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm me and this is irrelevant and these people don't

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Speaker 1: even know me, it does actually take a toll.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it really does. And look, it's not

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Speaker 4: just the online stuff. I mean, there are peopleeople who

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Speaker 4: will decide to physically stalk you or send threatening letters.

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Speaker 4: And I think that that's something that we've all experienced

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Speaker 4: at this point in time, and my background, obviously, you know,

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Speaker 4: coming out of federal law enforcement, I think you're better

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Speaker 4: equipped to deal with that. When you are a private

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Speaker 4: citizen like Egene Carroll and you're being subjected to the

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Speaker 4: worst that people who are motivated by Trump's bad behavior

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Speaker 4: can throw at you, it's extremely unpleasant. It should be.

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Speaker 4: You know, this is like a sign in glaring letters

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Speaker 4: that says do not reelect. And I hope people will

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Speaker 4: pay attention.

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Speaker 1: Right, I mean that is the big question is like

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Speaker 1: will this man get another term in office, which he

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Speaker 1: certainly might. This is not a criminal trial. Will you

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Speaker 1: just talk about this a little more so? That's a

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Speaker 1: really important point here. This is not a criminal rape prosecution.

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Speaker 1: No one goes to prison at the end of this case.

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Speaker 1: That's because you know, the case is old. It would

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Speaker 1: be barred by the statute of limitations. Here's a really

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Speaker 1: interesting thing about civil versus criminal cases, Molly, and you'll

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Speaker 1: forgive me. You know, I'm a former appellate lawyer. I'm

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Speaker 1: a little bit dirty when it comes.

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Speaker 4: To this stuff. In a criminal case, guilt would have

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Speaker 4: to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt to the satisfaction

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Speaker 4: of the jury. In a civil case, the judge will

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Speaker 4: instruct the jury that they must find Carol's allegations are

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Speaker 4: true by a preponderance of the evidence. That means more

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Speaker 4: likely than not or fifty one percent if you want

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Speaker 4: to put it in numerical terms. That's obviously an easier

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Speaker 4: burden for a plaintiff to meet in a civil case.

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Speaker 4: And you know, a lot has been made about the

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Speaker 4: fact that Carol's memory is imperfect. She doesn't remember the

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Speaker 4: exact date or even the exact year that this took place.

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Speaker 4: She didn't go to law enforcement immediately. But in my mind,

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Speaker 4: those are both strengths in this civil case. If Carol

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Speaker 4: wanted to make up allegations about Trump, she would have

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Speaker 4: known what the date was, right, And so I think

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Speaker 4: ultimately this is a very strong case.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: That is a really good point.

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Speaker 1: I also thought what she said where she talked about

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Speaker 1: there's no real upside to these cases. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe she gets a little money, Ultimately it's going to

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Speaker 1: cost more in lawyers fees.

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Speaker 2: Will you just talk about that for a minute. This

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Speaker 2: is not an easy win for anyone.

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Speaker 4: Now, I mean, this is what I think of as

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Speaker 4: a woman of valor prosecution. This is someone who's bringing

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Speaker 4: a lawsuit that she really didn't want to bring because

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Speaker 4: it's the right thing to do. I think Carol is

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Speaker 4: someone who appreciates the moment, she understands the trajectory of history.

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Speaker 4: It's very unlikely that the jury will give her a

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Speaker 4: monetary award that's sufficient to even cover the damages she

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Speaker 4: suffers after she is fired by L Magazine. Of course,

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Speaker 4: L Magazine said that they didn't terminate her contract because

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Speaker 4: of her allegations about Trump, but the timing is very interesting.

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Speaker 4: You know, she lost readers, she lost income. The jury

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Speaker 4: might decide to compensate her for the but that's certainly

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Speaker 4: not a sure thing. And so this is a case

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Speaker 4: I think that's more about principle than it is about money.

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Speaker 1: Right, These are the kind of things they're traumatic to

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Speaker 1: be involved in. So now there are some things under

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Speaker 1: the radar that are going on with Trump that I

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Speaker 1: was hoping you could talk about, Like, for example, he

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Speaker 1: came to New York, made.

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Speaker 2: A big show of seeing.

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Speaker 1: Alvin Bragg, you know, the Da Da Da Da, and

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Speaker 1: then he came later and saw Tiss James and made

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Speaker 1: that it was completely sort of snuck in. Will you

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Speaker 1: talk about those two different cases, because they were like

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Speaker 1: a week apart.

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Speaker 4: Lawsuits everywhere. Trump is under criminal indictment in Manhattan, and

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Speaker 4: I love the way you phrased it. You know that

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Speaker 4: he made a big deal about showing up to see

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Speaker 4: Manhattan Da Alvin Bragg, as one does when one is

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Speaker 4: under arrest and submitting for processing because one has been

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Speaker 4: indicted in a criminal case. And then the second situation

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Speaker 4: that you're referencing. He comes back the following week because

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Speaker 4: he's been ordered to sit for a deposition. And this

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Speaker 4: is the New York Attorney General's prosecution again civil not criminal,

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Speaker 4: of bad business practices by his corporate entities. And this

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Speaker 4: case may really be the sleeper in the whole mix

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Speaker 4: of Trump's legal problems because it could involve imposing a

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Speaker 4: corporate death penalty on his ability to function in the

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Speaker 4: state of New York.

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Speaker 1: Can you say more about a corporate death penalty? That

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Speaker 1: is some interesting wording.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So, you know, this case looks into manipulation of values

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Speaker 4: and other loose practices, and something that James can ask

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Speaker 4: the court to order is that Trump be forced to

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Speaker 4: stop doing business in the state of New York. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's interesting about the time that this case got serious,

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Speaker 4: Trump filed for a duplicate corporate entity in Delaware. He

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Speaker 4: began the paperwork to do that. It may be that

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Speaker 4: he sees the writing on the wall, but it would

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Speaker 4: be a real gut shot for Trump to be an

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Speaker 4: able to do business in the state of New York.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I want to talk about his CEO is

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Speaker 1: already in jail, Alan Weiserberg.

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Speaker 4: He is He's sitting in Rikers Island, which is not

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Speaker 4: a pleasant place for anyone to sit, you know, let

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Speaker 4: alone a man of his age. One of the big

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Speaker 4: wild cards in both the Manhattan DA's criminal prosecution and

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Speaker 4: Tiss James civil case is will Weislberg finally decide he's

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Speaker 4: had enough and that he wants to cooperate so he

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Speaker 4: doesn't spend his last years in prison. He has seemed

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Speaker 4: to be very motivated to stay in Trump's good graces.

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Speaker 4: There has been speculation that that's because his family benefits

438
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 4: financially and could be devastated financially if he were to

439
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 4: join forces with the government. That's one of those ones

440
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 4: where we'll just have to wait and see.

441
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's quite interesting.

442
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: And then there was also an announcement about in Georgia,

443
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: will you talk a little bit about what's happening with

444
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: Fanny Willis?

445
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 4: Right, So, Fulton County District Attorney Fannie Willis sent a

446
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 4: letter and say, Mollie, this is pretty unusual to see

447
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,719
Speaker 4: this happen. But she sends a letter to the sheriff

448
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 4: in Fulton County and says, listen, I'm going to be

449
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 4: making an announcement she doesn't say, you know, is she

450
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 4: announcing she's indicted. Is she going to announce She's not

451
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 4: going to indict who's involved. But she says, I'm going

452
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 4: to make an announcement about, you know, this election investigation,

453
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 4: and you should be unnotice that you need to be

454
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 4: prepared for public safety purposes, to protect our citizens. So

455
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 4: she says, you know, it could happen as early as

456
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 4: July eleventh, it could happen as late as September. She's

457
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 4: sort of set a time frame for announcing her prosecutive

458
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 4: decision here.

459
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: Very unusual, Yes, very unusual, right, She's sort.

460
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 4: Of though, to be fair, it's one of those damned

461
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 4: if you do and damned if you don't. She really needed,

462
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 4: I think, to work through with state, federal, and local

463
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 4: law enforcement public security consequences of any decision she might make.

464
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 4: You know, Fulton County, with all due respect to Atlanta,

465
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 4: is not Manhattan, not as equipped for what would accompany

466
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 4: the indictment of a former president. Could she have done

467
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 4: this privately and gone to them and had conversations. Absolutely, Instead,

468
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 4: we have this letter that leaked out.

469
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you a little bit about

470
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: this documents case. So there's one other case. It's a

471
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: federal case. It's the Jack Smith case. Can you talk

472
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: about that, because there's been some new information there too.

473
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 4: Jack Smith now has both the Document's case and the

474
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 4: January sixth criminal investigations, and in the best tradition of

475
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 4: federal prosecutors, those cases are largely opaque. Right we don't

476
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 4: know what his timeline is. He could be ready to

477
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 4: drop indictments tomorrow, or he could have decided not to indict.

478
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 4: But what seems clear from what we've seen is that

479
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 4: he is working towards an indictment in the Document's case.

480
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 4: This recent case that we're seeing with this young member

481
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 4: of the military is a really good example of why

482
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 4: Trump is on a trajectory to get popped by the Feds.

483
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 4: It's not holding on to classified documents alone that gets

484
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 4: you prosecuted. It's obstruction. So in that particular case, there's

485
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 4: now evidence that indicates that the defendant tried to destroy

486
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 4: evidence to discourage other people from cooperating with the Feds

487
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 4: as they closed in on him. And there's a parallel

488
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 4: in Trump's case where he lies to Dojay and says

489
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 4: I've given you everything back when he clearly hasn't, and

490
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 4: that's the sort of conduct I think that will lead

491
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 4: to Jacksmith forward. You know, this week we've learned that

492
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 4: some of the early documents that were returned involved Trump's

493
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 4: briefings to meet with foreign leaders, which is incredibly dangerous

494
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 4: for our national security, given what we know about how

495
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 4: cavalierly Trump treated access to these sorts of documents, and

496
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 4: just given all of the evidence of obstruction that surfaced

497
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 4: in the course of this investigation, that's what we know publicly.

498
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 4: My assumption is that Smith has a lot more evidence

499
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 4: than what we know about that we're just seeing the

500
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 4: tip of the iceberg. I think this case is on

501
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 4: track for an indictment.

502
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, I think really really quite interesting. There's

503
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: still no legal world in which Trump doesn't run again,

504
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: there's nothing. It's sort of too late to stop that.

505
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 4: I mean, I think that, to be clear, is the

506
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 4: job of the political process, not of the legal process. Right,

507
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 4: legal process only determines whether or not someone committed crimes.

508
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 4: What people do once they have that information is up

509
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 4: to them, and here it's up to the Republican Party

510
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 4: that frankly could bar Trump, but lacks the spine to

511
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 4: do so.

512
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: Right, that is certainly true. I want your take on this,

513
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: Disney versus DeSantis.

514
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 4: Sorry, yeah, Disney versus DeSantis. This is a really interesting lawsuit.

515
00:26:58,840 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 3: Right.

516
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 4: It's not just a contracts case saying Florida, you can't

517
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 4: violate our contractual agreements. It's also alleging First Amendment violations.

518
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 4: And this I think is a case of be careful

519
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 4: of what you ask for, right. I mean, DeSantis thought

520
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 4: he could look like the big man by taking on Disney,

521
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 4: and now Disney has taken the bait. Yeah, I like

522
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 4: Disney's chances here.

523
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: Can you explain this lawsuit a little bit for me

524
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: because I don't quite understand it, right.

525
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 4: So, what the controversy centers around is the fact that Disney,

526
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 4: like more than one hundred other entities in the state

527
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 4: of Florida, has this special status that's designed to encourage

528
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 4: them to do business in the state of Florida, and

529
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 4: it gives them incentives and special rights. And in Disney's case,

530
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 4: they have a lot of control over the land that

531
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 4: Disney World is situated on. They provide services, they really

532
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 4: act in many ways like a local government, and there's

533
00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 4: a board that heads that work and historically they've appointed

534
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 4: by Disney. Ron DeSantis decided that he would put his

535
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 4: own people in place to do that, that he wanted

536
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 4: to strip Disney's authority in retaliation for the way that

537
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 4: you know, Disney has done horrible things like supporting gay

538
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 4: people and so on its way out the door, the

539
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 4: existing board sort of Meetcaps DeSantis in his new board

540
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 4: member's ability to do anything by entering into some contracts

541
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 4: that lock things in place for thirty years. Newboard can't

542
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 4: change that. So that's the essence of the contract suit

543
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 4: that Disney is bringing. Look, you know, Disney does everything

544
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 4: that they do immaculately. I can remember being there with

545
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 4: our kids twenty years ago and seeing this guy in

546
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 4: a business suit holding binders, who was obviously a Disney employee,

547
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 4: walking down Main Street and there were a whole bunch

548
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 4: of napkins that somebody had dropped that were on the ground,

549
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 4: and the suit stops, picks up all of the napkins

550
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 4: and puts them in the trash. And I just said

551
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 4: something like, wow, that's amazing, and he said, no, that's

552
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 4: our training. And to me, that has always epitomized Disney.

553
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 4: They are very good at picking up the.

554
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: Trash, so we will see how they pick up the trash.

555
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: To be continued.

556
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: Choyce Fans, I am so delighted to have you on

557
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: this podcast.

558
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: I hope you will come back.

559
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 4: This is a treat for me anytime. Mollie.

560
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: Hi, it's Mollie and I am.

561
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: Wildly excited that for the first time, Fast Politics, the

562
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: show you're listening to right.

563
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: Now, is going to have merch for sale.

564
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: Over at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com. You can now

565
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: buy shirts, hats, hoodies, and toe bags with our incredible designs.

566
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: We've heard your cries to spread the word about our

567
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: podcast and get a tow bag with my adorable Leo

568
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: the Rescue Puppy on it. And now you can grab

569
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: this merchandise only at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com.

570
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: Thanks for your support.

571
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: Hannah Dryer is an investigative reporter at the New York Times.

572
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Hannah, thank you for having me.

573
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: We're delighted to have you. And you did this blockbuster.

574
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to say blockbuster. There should be another word.

575
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,239
Speaker 1: It's blockbuster. It's the kind of thing that's huge, but

576
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: it's also just devastating, which is you cracked this child

577
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: labor story. Can you talk a little bit about this?

578
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, So this has sort of been an open secret

579
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 6: in immigration worlds for many years. A lot of the

580
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 6: children who cross the border by themselves are coming here

581
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 6: and ending up working. And so I knew about this

582
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 6: from reporting on you know, Trump immigration crackdowns years ago,

583
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 6: and last year I decided to try to really dig

584
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 6: into what's happening with children who are coming over the

585
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 6: border and working. And I sort of thought it would

586
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 6: be kids at restaurants, maybe it would be an agriculture story. Well, instead,

587
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 6: what I found is these kids are working in factories,

588
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 6: They're working the overnight shift, in slaughterhouses, They're working in

589
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 6: the most industrial settings. I found them in every single state,

590
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 6: and so we're talking about thousands, tens of thousands, some

591
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 6: people think, probably hundreds of thousands of kids, some as

592
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 6: young as twelve thirteen years old, who are working full

593
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 6: time in jobs where children should never be.

594
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

595
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: I mean I remember listening to an episode of The

596
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: Daily You did Wow where you talked about the sort

597
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: of how you cracked these networks.

598
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: Is that fair? Yeah?

599
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 6: The reporting was very intense. It was basically going out

600
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 6: getting on the ground in some of the places where

601
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 6: I knew there were a lot of children who had

602
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 6: been released not to their parents, but to maybe an

603
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 6: uncle they never met, or a family friend, somebody from

604
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 6: the village. And so I went to these towns all

605
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 6: over the country and tried to figure out where are

606
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 6: these kids working? And it was a lot of standing

607
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 6: around at you know, the Cheerios factory at the twelve

608
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 6: o'clock shift change, and looking for young faces as people

609
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 6: walked out of work, and then talking to some of

610
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 6: these kids and asking them how old they were, asking

611
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 6: if they were going to school the next morning. It's

612
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 6: a pretty hidden population. I initially tried to do this

613
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 6: reporting by talking to immigration lawyers or advocates, and they

614
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 6: just weren't in touch.

615
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: With these kids.

616
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 6: These kids are totally on their own.

617
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: That's the thing.

618
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: When I read this warning and when I heard you

619
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: interviewed about those these kids are.

620
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: Really on their own, and they're little kids.

621
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 6: I was expecting that I would be talking to sixteen

622
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 6: and seventeen year olds, but yeah, really, say, these are

623
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 6: you know, twelve year olds. I remember one twelve year

624
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 6: old I talked to. He had come over. He was

625
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 6: staying in a house with five other kids just like

626
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 6: him who had come over as unaccompanied minors and been

627
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 6: released by the government to the same sponsor, and he

628
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 6: was working in roofing every day. He told me he'd

629
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 6: never learned to read, and he really wanted to go

630
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 6: to school just to learn to read, and he thought

631
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 6: that he would be able to But when he got

632
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 6: to this country, he was on the hook for rent.

633
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 6: He was on the hook for paying back the cost

634
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 6: of his journey to the border. And it's just these

635
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 6: really dark situations, these kids who sort of have no

636
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 6: hope of ever escaping the situation that they're in.

637
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, the thing that was so striking to me was

638
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: just how crushingly Deckenzian this is. I mean, but the

639
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: other thing that really struck me was these are not

640
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: like I mean, some of them are like random roofing

641
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: companies whatever, but a lot of them are like blue

642
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: chip companies with publicly traded stocks.

643
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 2: Can you talk about that?

644
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, these are the biggest companies in this country.

645
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 6: We're talking about about Pepsi Co, General Mills, Ord, General Motors,

646
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 6: Fruit of the Loom, Socks. I also thought that I

647
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 6: was going to find a lot of sort of under

648
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 6: the table work. But actually what's happened is that these

649
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 6: big companies, say, you know Pepsi Coo, which makes Cheetos,

650
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 6: there's sort of a new supply system where Pepsi Coo

651
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,439
Speaker 6: will hire a manufacturer. In the case that I found,

652
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 6: it was this company Heartside in Grand Rapids, and this

653
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 6: company will start manufacturing Cheetos, but the workers that are

654
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 6: there are hired through a staffing agency. So what's happened

655
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 6: is there's all these layers and it allows a company

656
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 6: like PepsiCo to say, oh, we had no idea there

657
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 6: were children making, you know, flaming hot Cheetos. And meanwhile,

658
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 6: I'm talking to kids who are making this product and

659
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 6: tell me that their lungs burn from the spicy dust,

660
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 6: that they don't get enough sleep, that they're worried their

661
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 6: hands are going to get caught in the conveyor belts.

662
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 6: Seco sort of has plausible deniability. But at the same time,

663
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 6: just going to the factories and looking around, it's easy

664
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 6: to talk to these kids.

665
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

666
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what is so striking to me, because

667
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: the reason why I wanted to talk to you was

668
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: not just because of this blockbuster reporting, but because I've

669
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: been seeing in these GOP state houses around the country,

670
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: a renewed push for child labor laws. You saw in Alabama,

671
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: in Arkansas, in all of these red states were quietly

672
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 1: seeing these child labor laws amended or changed.

673
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: And I wondered if there was a connection between these

674
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 2: two things.

675
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, that's exactly right. So it's totally outrageous

676
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 6: what's happening in these Republican states. They're basically rolling back

677
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 6: laws that have been on the books for one hundred years.

678
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 6: It's not like, oh, now a seventeen year old can

679
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 6: work without a work permit. These laws are allowing fourteen

680
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 6: and fifteen neurals to work the overnight shift legally, for

681
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 6: them to work in factories with assembly lines, stuff that

682
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 6: has never been permitted. And it really comes down to

683
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 6: the same issue, which is a shortage of workers. What

684
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 6: look on in the states say is, well, somebody's you know,

685
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 6: got to run the overnight assembly line, and nobody wants

686
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 6: to do it, except there are these kids out here.

687
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 6: And that's exactly what I heard with the migrant child

688
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 6: leab or crisis, that these companies wouldn't have turned to

689
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 6: staffing agencies except nobody wanted to. You know, work at

690
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 6: three am stamping car parts.

691
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking, it's so crushing, it's so upsetting to me,

692
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: But it also is just insane, right, Like, this is

693
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: a country that desperately needs workers, right, but here's a

694
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: situation where like it could clearly be solved by fixing immigration,

695
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: and instead we have stayed houses making it so that

696
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: children can work without these companies getting penal lost.

697
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 6: One thing that struck me about the kids I was

698
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 6: reporting on is that their parents really wish that they

699
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 6: could come and work.

700
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: Right.

701
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 6: So our process was, you know, it's very unclear that

702
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 6: a twelve year old can give consent to talk to

703
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 6: a New York Times reporter and a newspaper. So we

704
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 6: talked to all of these kids' parents back in Central America,

705
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 6: and a lot of them were, you know, crying on

706
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 6: the phone with me, talking about how they had come

707
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 6: to the border and tried to come into this country

708
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,919
Speaker 6: because they wanted to be the one sending money back

709
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 6: and providing for the family. But, like you say, the

710
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 6: way immigration law is set up right now, a child

711
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,479
Speaker 6: can come in and work, but once you're eighteen, it's

712
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 6: almost impossible to come into this country. Even if all

713
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 6: you want to do is you know, work the overnight

714
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 6: shift and send money home, right.

715
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing that strikes me.

716
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: And with children again, you know, these companies are robbing

717
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: these children of their childhood. I'm just curious, like in

718
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: this situation, Will I mean, was your sense that once,

719
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: Because now you've published the story, it's been a little while,

720
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: do you think that they or is it change from

721
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: this or do you think that what's really happening is

722
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: these state houses are passing these legislatures to protect these companies.

723
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 7: Legislation to protect these companies. I think everybody who watches

724
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 7: child labor is really disturbed by what's going right in

725
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 7: these states. And it's an open question whether that legislation

726
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 7: is really going to allow kids to work these jobs,

727
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 7: because there's still federal law that protects these kids, and

728
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 7: that's something that is going to have to get worked out.

729
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 7: People are hoping the federal law is going to trump

730
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 7: the state laws and these kids will still be banned

731
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 7: from these really adult jobs. But more globally, I mean,

732
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 7: the Biden administration says that they didn't know anything about

733
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 7: child labor or micro child labor crisis until our story

734
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 7: came out in February. There were plenty of warnings set up,

735
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 7: there was plenty of evidence that this was happening. But

736
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 7: the administration, in response to our reporting has done a

737
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 7: couple things. And one thing that they're doing is going

738
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 7: after these companies in a new way, and they're pledging

739
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 7: to go all the way of the Chaine. So if

740
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 7: a child was making Cheetos, it's not just the staffing

741
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 7: agency that gets held accountable. I think we really are

742
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,479
Speaker 7: seeing a lot of change in the labor enforcement side

743
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 7: of this. On the other side, on the sort of

744
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 7: health and human services side, looking at what kind of

745
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 7: support there is for these children. I don't know if

746
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 7: we're going to see much change. That's sort of something

747
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 7: that I'm watching closely right now.

748
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.

749
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 1: It's like, and there is a fundamental problem, like if

750
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: these kids don't get to work, these families don't get

751
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: to eat.

752
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: It's a sickle call problem.

753
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 6: I Mean, one sad thing though, is these kids could

754
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 6: work less brutal job they have.

755
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 2: I don't want to laugh because it's so horrible.

756
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 6: Go on, yes, no, no, no, no, it's horrible, and

757
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 6: it's like absurd. Yeah, exactly, you know, like most people

758
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 6: work as a teenager. I definitely had a job as

759
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 6: a teenager, but I was able to get a legal

760
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 6: and these kids could also qualify for work permits, which

761
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 6: is the thing that would allow them to just work

762
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 6: at like a grocery store or McDonald's. But they need

763
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 6: a lawyer. And so there's a lot of pressure on

764
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 6: Biden administration right now to provide basic legal services for

765
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 6: all of these kids because otherwise we know the kind

766
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 6: of jobs they end up doing.

767
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: We hear a lot of kind of noise about immigration

768
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: and about the border. Some of that from the Fox

769
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: industrial complex is really cruel and evil towards these immigrants, right,

770
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 1: they said, they're you know, I mean this Trump line.

771
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: You know, they're not good people.

772
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: But ultimately, these are children who have come here to

773
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 1: save their families, right.

774
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 2: I mean, can you talk about the pressure these kids feel?

775
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think that these children imagine that

776
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 6: they're going to come to this country and, like you say,

777
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 6: and save the family and send money back so that

778
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 6: their little siblings and can eat.

779
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and poverty.

780
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 6: Has just gotten so desperate in countries like Guatemala. But

781
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 6: they're children, so they can't really imagine what they're taking

782
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 6: on when they come here. And what they told me,

783
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 6: like child after child, was that they couldn't imagine what

784
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 6: their life was going to be like here. So it's

785
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 6: really a question of can a child consent to come

786
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 6: here and work full time and support themselves when they're

787
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 6: like thirteen, And you.

788
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 5: Know, I don't think most people could think that they

789
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 5: can really make that choice. So we have a situation

790
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 5: where there are all these kids here, hundreds of thousands

791
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 5: of kids more coming each year. There's surely going to

792
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 5: be you know, another record number this summer, and we

793
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 5: sort of haven't set up a system where anybody is

794
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 5: checking in on these kids once they're released, but there's

795
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 5: any kind of support for them.

796
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's strange because we think of this problem as

797
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: the kind of thing from another century.

798
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 2: Totally totally, and it's right now.

799
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: I mean, will you just explain a little bit, like

800
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: what happens when one of these kids gets sick? I mean,

801
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: is there anyone to take care of them? I mean,

802
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: like they're really on their own?

803
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I mean child labor laws exist basically to

804
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 6: keep kids physically safe. Like there's this idea that it's

805
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 6: good for kids to be in school, and it's not

806
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 6: good for them to have too much responsibility, and all

807
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 6: of that goes into it. But when you're thinking of

808
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 6: the turn of the century, when these laws were put

809
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 6: in place, it was all about kids' physical safety. And

810
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 6: that's what I saw again and again. These kids are

811
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 6: working really dangerous jobs and they get hurt. I found

812
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 6: twelve instances of children just in the last couple of

813
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 6: years who died on the job, like baring fifty feet

814
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 6: to their bath, getting you know, caught in machines, having

815
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 6: legs amputated, and when they get hurt, there's no one

816
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 6: to take care of them. One child I talked to

817
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 6: had his arm mangled at a chicken processing plant when

818
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 6: he was fourteen, and he was in the hospital for days,

819
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 6: and he told me nobody came to visit him because

820
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 6: he wasn't really living with anybody who had his back.

821
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 6: He was basically on his own, trying to support himself

822
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 6: on this overnight shift, and when he got hurt, he

823
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 6: was abandoned.

824
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, the cruelty is just unbelievable. So, I mean,

825
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 1: are there other ideas that you've had that you think

826
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: could or anything you've seen where you were out there

827
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: interviewing people, where you thought, oh, this might help.

828
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 2: I've talked to a.

829
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 6: Couple children who were in really bad situations where their sponsor,

830
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 6: the person who had agreed to take them in, was

831
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 6: forcing them to work, threatening them, threatening them with the

832
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 6: violence if they didn't turn over their paychecks. And these

833
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 6: children ended up escaping that situation because they had a

834
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 6: social worker who was sort of watching over them. The

835
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 6: government releases most of these kids with no support, but

836
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 6: some do get a couple months of case management, and

837
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 6: from what I've seen, that made a difference. These kids

838
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 6: at least had an adult they could call and ask

839
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 6: for help, and then in the situations thinking of the

840
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 6: social worker got law enforcement involved and the kid was

841
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 6: basically rescued. So I think it all comes back to

842
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 6: what kind of support is there for these kids? Are

843
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 6: they getting legal services? Is there a social worker, Is

844
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 6: there sort of anybody who could be a trusted adult

845
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 6: once they're released in case they end up, like a

846
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 6: lot of them do, in these really bad situations.

847
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it seems like an easy fix, and

848
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: they're I mean an easy fix. None of this is

849
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: an easy fix, and all of this is you know

850
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: it's just heartbreak, but that certainly sounds like a way

851
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: that the Biden administration could at least put another layer

852
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: of safety for these children. It's unbelievable. So can you

853
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: just for a minute or two talk about the reverberations

854
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: of this piece and what you're seeing and anything that

855
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: makes you hopeful, because now I'm so upset.

856
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 6: Look with the kids that we're writing about. Some of

857
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 6: the kids we've named have now gotten lawyers, they've gotten

858
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 6: more support, they've gotten the fund me set up for them.

859
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 6: It's a tiny fraction of the children who are out there,

860
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 6: but it's beenheartening that readers really do want to help,

861
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 6: and people do want to help what these kids are

862
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 6: in a visible place, and I think the whole issue

863
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 6: is more visible right now. So there were two Congressional

864
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,439
Speaker 6: Oversight hearings into this issue last week, there's another one

865
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 6: coming up this week. And Health in Human Services, it's

866
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 6: pledging to do a lot more as far as those

867
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 6: sort of support services on the back end, and they

868
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 6: say Congress needs to allocate money for that.

869
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 2: So we'll see. But all of this is.

870
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 6: Sort of in motion, and the advocates who work with

871
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 6: these kids most closely tell me that they feel really

872
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 6: hopeful for the first time in a couple of years

873
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 6: about this, that something might actually change.

874
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: Hanna, thank you so much for doing this work.

875
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I am so upset from talking to you

876
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: for eighteen minutes, so I can only imagine how much

877
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: this has broken your heart, having to do this, And

878
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: I just appreciate it so much. And I'm so glad

879
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 1: that the New York Times is covering this and that

880
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: you're doing this work, and it's so important, and I'm

881
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: just so grateful that you made the time to talk

882
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: to us.

883
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.

884
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me.

885
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 4: It means a lot.

886
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:14,959
Speaker 2: No moment.

887
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 8: Jesse Cannon Malei Jong fasts. There's well the Egen and

888
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 8: Carol case. I think a lot of people underestimated that'd

889
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 8: be one of the more interesting ones for mister Trump,

890
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 8: but it really started out to be interesting. What are

891
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 8: you seeing there?

892
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 1: I'm seeing my name, Yeah, and I don't like it.

893
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 2: It struck me too, I'm seeing my name. I don't

894
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: like it.

895
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: Here's what I would like. I would like when people

896
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: are in court not to mention me when they are

897
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,919
Speaker 1: on the stand. All I want in life is to

898
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 1: not be in a case, but here it is. Allow

899
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: me to quote from the transcript, where did you meet him?

900
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: The Council's asking about one George Conway Carol at a

901
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: party thrown by Erica John's daughter, Molly John fast Comma,

902
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: a respected podcaster. Hell yeah, hell yeah, our moment of fuckery.

903
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 8: That's our moment of glory. What are you talking about?

904
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: I'm just trying, man. That's our moment of full disclosure.

905
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

906
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds

907
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

908
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

909
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.