1
00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,360
Speaker 1: Are adams mostly empty space? What kind of host should

2
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:11,360
Speaker 1: a parasite chase?

3
00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,320
Speaker 2: Do other particles travel at the speed of light? Why

4
00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:17,920
Speaker 2: is dark chocolate better than white?

5
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:23,960
Speaker 1: Biology? Physics, archaeology, forestry. Thankfully no one asked about chemistry.

6
00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,360
Speaker 2: But whatever question keeps you up at night, Daniel and

7
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,200
Speaker 2: Kelly's answer will make it right.

8
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 1: Welcome to Another Listener's Questions episode on Daniel and Kelly's

9
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 1: Extraordinary Universe. Hello, I'm Kelly Waiter Smith. I study parasites

10
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:51,080
Speaker 1: and space.

11
00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,720
Speaker 2: Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist. I study particles

12
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,200
Speaker 2: and the spaces between them.

13
00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:58,480
Speaker 1: Ah well, one of the first questions that we have

14
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,240
Speaker 1: today is about ball, which makes me wonder. You know,

15
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,840
Speaker 1: usually when you think about scientists, be they ecologists or physicist.

16
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,800
Speaker 2: I'm about to make a family inappropriate balls joke, Kelly, Oh.

17
00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,720
Speaker 1: No, no, okay.

18
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,160
Speaker 2: I just felt like the audience was like, uh, oh,

19
00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 2: where are we going with this?

20
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,080
Speaker 1: This is a joke about sports.

21
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, sports balls?

22
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead, Oh my goodness, There's.

23
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,039
Speaker 2: Never been an inappropriate joke about balls and sports. You

24
00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:25,399
Speaker 2: know what, I.

25
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,000
Speaker 1: Feel like you're pigeonholing me here. Daniel and I've got

26
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,160
Speaker 1: a lot more range than you're giving me credit for.

27
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,880
Speaker 2: I'm just looking out for the audience. You know, their

28
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:36,840
Speaker 2: kids in the backseat listening to this, and I just

29
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,120
Speaker 2: want to make sure this joke is clean or anyway,

30
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 2: go ahead, tell us about sports balls.

31
00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,280
Speaker 1: And it's not even a joke. It's a question how

32
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,880
Speaker 1: you've raised all the expectations. So my question is, you know,

33
00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,840
Speaker 1: usually when you think about scientists, you don't immediately think, oh, wow,

34
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,680
Speaker 1: they're great at sports, although many of us are. So

35
00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,800
Speaker 1: are there any sports where being a physicist would give

36
00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:01,520
Speaker 1: you an advantage? Now there is a all right clean question, Daniel.

37
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:02,640
Speaker 1: I'll point out it is.

38
00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 2: A very clean question, yes, very family appropriate. But not

39
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,560
Speaker 2: an easy question, you know, because I feel like sports

40
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,840
Speaker 2: don't rely on calculations. You might think, oh, you're playing baseball,

41
00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,919
Speaker 2: you want to calculate to the trajectory of the pitch

42
00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,320
Speaker 2: so it gets exactly in the right spot. But nobody

43
00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,800
Speaker 2: has time for that. All this stuff is intuitive, you know,

44
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 2: it's all muscle memory. It's amazing that your brain can

45
00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,679
Speaker 2: do that all so fast. It's got this heuristic physics

46
00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,000
Speaker 2: engine inside of it. It's just like almost instantly tells

47
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,640
Speaker 2: you exactly how to kick the ball so it goes

48
00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,959
Speaker 2: exactly where you want it to go, though of course

49
00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,120
Speaker 2: it's not that easy. But does being a physicist help

50
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,600
Speaker 2: you in any sport? I don't think the answer is yes.

51
00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,920
Speaker 2: The only thing I can imagine is that being a

52
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 2: physicist might make it more enjoyable to be a sports fan,

53
00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,480
Speaker 2: because you have the science to know, like how difficult

54
00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,680
Speaker 2: something is, Like to accelerate a baseball at t one

55
00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,720
Speaker 2: hundred miles an hour. That's tough, to put enough spin

56
00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 2: on a soccer ball so that it goes around the defenders,

57
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,240
Speaker 2: like that's some serious work. So you know, maybe, if anything,

58
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,040
Speaker 2: it helps you appreciate the sports.

59
00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,560
Speaker 1: I like that. I do feel like in general, science

60
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,880
Speaker 1: makes me appreciate just about everything about the world more.

61
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 1: And you know, I've talked to people who are like, well,

62
00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,960
Speaker 1: why does it increase your joy to know the chemical

63
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 1: reaction that makes firefly butts glow? And I'm like, I

64
00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,080
Speaker 1: don't know. Just the fact that nature came up with

65
00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,320
Speaker 1: that makes it even more wonderful and amazing. And anyway,

66
00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 1: science makes everything better.

67
00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,720
Speaker 2: Science does make everything better. I was just visiting some

68
00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,440
Speaker 2: folks at teen Harvard and talking to them about the

69
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,440
Speaker 2: value of science in society. I was talking to a

70
00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,640
Speaker 2: young guy and he was making the argument that science

71
00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,040
Speaker 2: has its own value. You know, people often say science

72
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 2: has value because it develops technology and changes our lives,

73
00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,680
Speaker 2: and that's all true, but I could see that he

74
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 2: was trying to express something deeper, which is that, like,

75
00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,960
Speaker 2: science makes the universe more wonderful and our experience of

76
00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,080
Speaker 2: it deeper and more pleasurable, in the same way that

77
00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 2: like art does. You know, what value does art add

78
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,760
Speaker 2: to society? Adds to the experience of being human and science,

79
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,080
Speaker 2: though it does have these spinoffs, I think it also

80
00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,880
Speaker 2: deepens our appreciation of the universe just in and of itself,

81
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,000
Speaker 2: the same way that art does. And I really respect that.

82
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 2: I think that a lot, but I think it's not

83
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,080
Speaker 2: often said that really science has its own intrinsic value

84
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:17,839
Speaker 2: to humanity.

85
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I study galls, which are these growths

86
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,559
Speaker 1: on trees and they can take lots of different shapes,

87
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,840
Speaker 1: but insects live inside of them, and every once in

88
00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,680
Speaker 1: a while you'll see an insect come out of them

89
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,120
Speaker 1: that's like iridescent and just absolutely gorgeous, and it's so

90
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,120
Speaker 1: small that if you don't get it under a microscope,

91
00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,320
Speaker 1: you don't get to see how gorgeous it is. But

92
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:35,479
Speaker 1: nature has all.

93
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,000
Speaker 2: Of this tiny but fabulous.

94
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,599
Speaker 1: It is tiny but fabulous. There's so much about the

95
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,640
Speaker 1: world that we don't even know yet. Some of these

96
00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,960
Speaker 1: insects that emerge, they haven't even been described by science yet,

97
00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 1: and they're gorgeous. There's just so much cool stuff happening

98
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,039
Speaker 1: in nature. We don't even know all about it. And

99
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,160
Speaker 1: the more science teaches us, the more amazing it is.

100
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,119
Speaker 2: All right, well, though it might get us even further

101
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,159
Speaker 2: off track. I have a philosophy of biology question. I

102
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,760
Speaker 2: always wondered about that. I I now want to ask

103
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,719
Speaker 2: you because you brought it up essentially, And that's why

104
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,120
Speaker 2: do we find nature beautiful? Like? Do you think it's

105
00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 2: possible that we could have evolved on a planet and

106
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,520
Speaker 2: been like, Eh, it's kind of ugly here. Does every

107
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,120
Speaker 2: species love the vistas and the fabulousness of the critters

108
00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,279
Speaker 2: on their planets? Are their aliens out there that are

109
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,080
Speaker 2: like an Our whole planet's kind of brown? And but

110
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,320
Speaker 2: you know, if you evolved on Mars, you'd be like, wow,

111
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:27,960
Speaker 2: look at the glorious red.

112
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,839
Speaker 1: That's a great question I don't know the answer to.

113
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,039
Speaker 2: I'm glad that we do enjoy the beauty of nature.

114
00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,360
Speaker 2: I mean it would suck, yeah, right. I wondering if

115
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 2: there's like a reason for that, if it's evolutionary, if

116
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,719
Speaker 2: it's just luck, or if the universe is just inherently beautiful,

117
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,240
Speaker 2: or if it's something about us. Then humans just like

118
00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:48,440
Speaker 2: to find beauty and things.

119
00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,520
Speaker 1: I mean, so I'm just a bitballing here. I don't

120
00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,040
Speaker 1: know that there's a solid final answer here, but I mean,

121
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,159
Speaker 1: I think all animals are to some extent queued into

122
00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,800
Speaker 1: the things that other animals are doing around them, because

123
00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:00,520
Speaker 1: you need to like make sure, you know, get eaten,

124
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,360
Speaker 1: you need to find the food you're going to eat.

125
00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 1: So I think we're all paying attention to whatever degree

126
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: our sensory systems will allow us to. But do we

127
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,960
Speaker 1: find it beautiful? I just don't know how we could

128
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,840
Speaker 1: even ask that. I mean, when you see a dog

129
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,200
Speaker 1: playing in the snow, do they think that's beautiful or

130
00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:19,279
Speaker 1: do they think that's fun?

131
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,240
Speaker 2: I think it's beautiful. How much fun we're having that

132
00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,799
Speaker 2: makes me happy? Yeah, it's incredible. I think this connects

133
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 2: to the whole philosophy of consciousness discussion we have with

134
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,599
Speaker 2: Megan Peters recently about the nature of your experience, what

135
00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,200
Speaker 2: it's like to be you or an alien or a dog,

136
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,320
Speaker 2: and how little we understand about that. So maybe someday

137
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,679
Speaker 2: the cognitive scientists will be able to answer that question,

138
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:40,600
Speaker 2: but not today.

139
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 3: That's right.

140
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:42,960
Speaker 1: We'll have to get Megan Peters back on the show

141
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,279
Speaker 1: in a couple of years and she'll give us the answer.

142
00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,760
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, we do have some questions from

143
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 2: listeners that might actually have answers, or at least we're

144
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:52,960
Speaker 2: going to do our best to provide the answers, and

145
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,560
Speaker 2: then we're going to check in with the listeners to

146
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,960
Speaker 2: see whether or not we have satisfied their curiosity or

147
00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,119
Speaker 2: just inflamed it further.

148
00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:00,919
Speaker 1: And it's part of two. So let's listen to the

149
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:01,479
Speaker 1: first question.

150
00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:07,000
Speaker 4: Since every atom is mostly empty space, and we know

151
00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,960
Speaker 4: how much matter there is in the universe, how big

152
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 4: would a ball be if we made one only out

153
00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 4: of the protons, neutrons, and electrons, and we just eliminated

154
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,560
Speaker 4: the empty space. Would that fit in my trunk?

155
00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,559
Speaker 2: All right? What do you think of this question from Martin?

156
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,160
Speaker 2: Is this the kind of thing you think about also

157
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:25,320
Speaker 2: keeps me up at night.

158
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:27,720
Speaker 1: Well, you know it's why. Actually, the more you and

159
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 1: I talk, the more interested I am and what the

160
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,040
Speaker 1: right way is to visualize an atom, Because you know,

161
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:34,600
Speaker 1: the more we talk, the more clear it is to

162
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,640
Speaker 1: me that the sort of diagrams that I saw in

163
00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,520
Speaker 1: my science textbook is no longer how we think about it.

164
00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,920
Speaker 1: And so well, I haven't personally thought of this question

165
00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,120
Speaker 1: prior to hearing it. I'm excited to hear the answer.

166
00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm excited to talk about it because this

167
00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,800
Speaker 2: isn't the kind of thing you hear about in popular

168
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 2: science all the time. It's like a g whiz fact.

169
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,440
Speaker 2: The atom is all filled with empty space that I

170
00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 2: think is cool to say, but if you dig into

171
00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,920
Speaker 2: it doesn't really have a lot of meaning. Actually misleads

172
00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,480
Speaker 2: people into the nature of these quantum particles and the

173
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,880
Speaker 2: atom rather than giving them any clarity. So I'm actually

174
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,240
Speaker 2: looking forward to the chance to unpack it and give

175
00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,000
Speaker 2: people a clearer sense for what's going on inside the atom.

176
00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,520
Speaker 1: Can I ask a question that we'll test how well

177
00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,640
Speaker 1: I've been listening in the past, Yes, Oh boy, All right,

178
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,200
Speaker 1: here we go. Historically, when I've done this, I've usually

179
00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,560
Speaker 1: embarrassed myself. But I'm moving forward anyway.

180
00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:24,800
Speaker 2: So that's what I'm hoping for here.

181
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know I aim to please. Okay, So

182
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 1: in the past we've talked about how, you know, particles

183
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,319
Speaker 1: aren't like points, they're like waves, and so you know,

184
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,319
Speaker 1: if you're thinking about empty space, is there less empty

185
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,760
Speaker 1: space because it's not points, it's waves and those waves

186
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,080
Speaker 1: take up a lot of space inside the atom, or

187
00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,440
Speaker 1: you know, you can think of those waves as filling

188
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 1: a lot of the atom. Is that part of the

189
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,000
Speaker 1: answer or did Kelly totally miss the point again?

190
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,160
Speaker 2: No, that's totally part of the answer. You shouldn't be

191
00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,440
Speaker 2: thinking these particles as just point particles. In some of

192
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,720
Speaker 2: our calculations, it's convenient to do that, and when it

193
00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,439
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, we do it. But when you do zoom

194
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,559
Speaker 2: in on these things, it doesn't make sense to think

195
00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 2: of them as points but little distributed wave packets. And

196
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,920
Speaker 2: the answer has a couple more wrinkles to it. One

197
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,680
Speaker 2: is like, well, what does it mean to have the

198
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,760
Speaker 2: size of a particle? What are we talking about here?

199
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,040
Speaker 2: Do particles have a surface? The way he's imagining packing

200
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,679
Speaker 2: these things together where the surface is touched. And then

201
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,040
Speaker 2: also is the space in the atom even empty at all?

202
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,000
Speaker 2: And the answer is no, But let's just talk about

203
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,440
Speaker 2: the first one. Because this idea of like taking the

204
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 2: particles and making a ball of just them with no

205
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,960
Speaker 2: empty space packing them together really leans on your mental

206
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,280
Speaker 2: image of particles as balls that you could like squeeze

207
00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,640
Speaker 2: together so the surface is touch Like if you have

208
00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,440
Speaker 2: a pile of tennis balls, you can think about how

209
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 2: to pack them into an object, right, So they're touching,

210
00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,959
Speaker 2: they're squeezed in together, and it's actually a really interesting

211
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,120
Speaker 2: mathematical problem, like how many spheres can you pack into

212
00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,880
Speaker 2: a cube. It's hard and it's fascinating. It's complicated, but

213
00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,920
Speaker 2: it requires these things to have a specific shape, right.

214
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,800
Speaker 2: Packing tennis balls requires them to have a surface, a

215
00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,880
Speaker 2: well defined point where the tennis ball ends and the

216
00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,480
Speaker 2: new one can start. And usually you think about these

217
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,679
Speaker 2: things as rigid and because tennis balls you could squeeze,

218
00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,120
Speaker 2: but imagine like a perfectly rigid sphere, it has an

219
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,760
Speaker 2: edge to it, a surface, right, And we think about

220
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,079
Speaker 2: stuff as having surfaces because we live in a world

221
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,559
Speaker 2: where they seem to you put your butt in the chair,

222
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,240
Speaker 2: there's a contact between the surface of your butt and

223
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,160
Speaker 2: the surface of the chair, and your butt doesn't phase

224
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 2: through the chair, and you can say where one starts

225
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 2: and the other one ends. Right. So in our classical

226
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,320
Speaker 2: macroscopic world, this makes a lot of sense to have

227
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,280
Speaker 2: a surface and to pack things together. And now we're

228
00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 2: trying to take that and apply it to quantum particles,

229
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,640
Speaker 2: protons and neutrons and electrons, and that only works if

230
00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,040
Speaker 2: they also have a well defined surface, if you can

231
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,320
Speaker 2: even talk about what it means for them to have

232
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 2: a size.

233
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,600
Speaker 1: And I feel like the answer is that it doesn't

234
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,960
Speaker 1: make sense because of the wave stuff we were talking about.

235
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,120
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense because of the wave stuff. But

236
00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,920
Speaker 2: even more deeply, it doesn't make sense because the size

237
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,000
Speaker 2: of an object depends on how you poke it. Unfortunately,

238
00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,760
Speaker 2: so in our macroscopic world, the reason when you poke

239
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,080
Speaker 2: the wall your finger doesn't go through it is that

240
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,600
Speaker 2: there are forces there. There's like a mesh of atoms

241
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,720
Speaker 2: in the wall and a mesh of atoms in your finger,

242
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 2: and those things are repelling each other electromagnetically, right, So

243
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,840
Speaker 2: that's what defines the surface, is these charge particles repelling

244
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,079
Speaker 2: each other. Okay, so think about an electron. Right, take

245
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,120
Speaker 2: an electron and poke it with another electron. What happens, Well,

246
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,600
Speaker 2: it gets repelled because like charges repel each other. Right, Well,

247
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,360
Speaker 2: what happens if you poke it with a neutrino? Phases

248
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,679
Speaker 2: right through because the electron and the neutrino don't interact.

249
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,720
Speaker 1: So then the point is that you can't find the

250
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,280
Speaker 1: exterior of the electron because it just goes through and

251
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,480
Speaker 1: you don't see where they bounce off. If that's where

252
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,600
Speaker 1: you're going, why can't you just define the outside of

253
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,800
Speaker 1: electron by what it does when you throw another electron

254
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:50,160
Speaker 1: at it?

255
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,040
Speaker 2: You could, and that works if you're just packing electrons. Right,

256
00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,720
Speaker 2: The answer depends And this is also even true for

257
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,840
Speaker 2: like macroscopic objects. Take for example, the Earth. Right, where's

258
00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:02,480
Speaker 2: the edge of the Earth. Well, I don't know. I

259
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,239
Speaker 2: mean the atmosphere peters out and it's kind of gradual,

260
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,120
Speaker 2: and so like what happens if you shoot a rock

261
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 2: at the Earth. It also depends on the size of

262
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,560
Speaker 2: the rock. Right, does it bounce off the atmosphere, does

263
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,560
Speaker 2: it penetrate the atmosphere? Does it destroy the earth? The

264
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,760
Speaker 2: same thing is true if you shoot charged particles at

265
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,080
Speaker 2: the Earth, so like where you would say the edge

266
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,480
Speaker 2: of the Earth is depends on how you probe it.

267
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,319
Speaker 2: What finger you are using. Are using a finger that's

268
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,440
Speaker 2: electrically charged, are using a finger that's only charged in

269
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,839
Speaker 2: the weak force, are using something that has no charge

270
00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,320
Speaker 2: at all? Like, it depends on how you probe it. Unfortunately,

271
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 2: and you might think, oh, this is nippicking. Can't you

272
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,800
Speaker 2: just choose a definition. You can choose a definition, but

273
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,439
Speaker 2: I just want to highlight that, like, these quantum objects

274
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,320
Speaker 2: don't have a well defined surface the way classical objects

275
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,000
Speaker 2: do because classical objects only interact with the electromagnetism, right,

276
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,120
Speaker 2: All these other charges are essentially irrelevant. That's why it

277
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,600
Speaker 2: seems like you have a simple, crisp definition of an

278
00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,439
Speaker 2: edge for a ball or a shoe or the wall.

279
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,400
Speaker 2: But for quantum objects, they have all these other kinds

280
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 2: of interactions. So it really depends on how you're poking them.

281
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,960
Speaker 2: And if we're going to pack protons and neutrons and

282
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,200
Speaker 2: electrons together, we have all those charges at.

283
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,360
Speaker 1: Work, all right, Yeah, this stuff is complicated. When you

284
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,440
Speaker 1: go to space conferences, you could talk to space geeks

285
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,199
Speaker 1: for like literally days about the definition of where space

286
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,000
Speaker 1: starts and where Earth ends or begins. But okay, so

287
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,560
Speaker 1: we've been talking about how you measure how big things

288
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,240
Speaker 1: are and why that's complicated. Have scientists to some extent

289
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:29,040
Speaker 1: agreed on how big any of the particles are electrons, protons, neutrons,

290
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,160
Speaker 1: or do we just have no definition for any of them?

291
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,160
Speaker 2: No, we have some definitions, and of course the answer

292
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:36,480
Speaker 2: is it depends.

293
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,880
Speaker 1: Aha, just like ecology, I know, you're no better.

294
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,160
Speaker 2: Literally, there's a twenty page paper just on this question

295
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,160
Speaker 2: how do we define the size of a proton? Because

296
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,280
Speaker 2: people have come up with a bunch of different ways

297
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,760
Speaker 2: to do it, like shoot this thing at it and

298
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,680
Speaker 2: measure at what angle it starts to change its deflection,

299
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. There's a few different ways, and

300
00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,199
Speaker 2: there's a whole paper trying to like harmonize them into one.

301
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,920
Speaker 2: But the answer is it's not simple to define the

302
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,480
Speaker 2: size of a proton. Basically, though, what you do is

303
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 2: you shoot electrons at the proton, and you shoot it

304
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,240
Speaker 2: at various angles, and you see the deflection and like,

305
00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,320
Speaker 2: at some point, basically the electron gets gently deflected and

306
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,280
Speaker 2: then suddenly it starts to get more dramatically deflected, like

307
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,400
Speaker 2: it's bouncing back right, there's more of a collision there.

308
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,800
Speaker 2: And you can measure the size of a proton like

309
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 2: this is different than what happens with an electron. Electron

310
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,520
Speaker 2: is either a fundamental and a point particle or it's

311
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,080
Speaker 2: just really really small. We can't tell the difference right now.

312
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,480
Speaker 2: We're gonna have a whole episode soon about like probing

313
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 2: the inside of the electron. The electron is so small

314
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,200
Speaker 2: that we can't measure its size, but the proton is

315
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,640
Speaker 2: definitely bigger than the electron. We can roughly measure its size,

316
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,920
Speaker 2: and you know, people argue about the exact definition, but

317
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,000
Speaker 2: roughly it's ten to the minus fifteen meters. It's really

318
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,560
Speaker 2: really really tiny thing.

319
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:59,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so now we have a handwavy guess for

320
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,040
Speaker 1: how big proton is. But that's only one of the

321
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:03,880
Speaker 1: three things we need to pack together. So where do

322
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 1: we go from here?

323
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 2: Yes, so now trying to imagine taking these objects and

324
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,360
Speaker 2: trying to make a ball out of them. So you know,

325
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,760
Speaker 2: Martin's question is basically, take all the protons and neutrons

326
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,040
Speaker 2: and neutrons in the universe and squeeze them together with

327
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 2: no empty space. How big is that? Right? So can

328
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,000
Speaker 2: you pack that stuff together? Well, you can pack protons

329
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,200
Speaker 2: and neutrons together, right, And that's what the nucleus is,

330
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,240
Speaker 2: a bunch of protons and neutrons packed together. Right, And

331
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,200
Speaker 2: so far we've seen ones with you know, hundreds of nucleons.

332
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 2: Definitely not you know, ten to eighty like we have

333
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,760
Speaker 2: in the universe. But in principle, you can pack these

334
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,400
Speaker 2: things together. And for example, the hearts of neutron stars

335
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,640
Speaker 2: are a bunch of these things just all squeeze together.

336
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,000
Speaker 2: So that's definitely possible. But again, you're not packing them

337
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 2: like tennis balls. The distance between these things is not

338
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,480
Speaker 2: the physical edge of them, but it's where those bonds determine.

339
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 2: They're happy to be, right, because you squeeze them together

340
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,480
Speaker 2: enough and they change into something else. Like he squeeze

341
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,080
Speaker 2: to newrons together, you're going to form something that's not

342
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,480
Speaker 2: a neutron. Like actually, at the heart of neutron stars,

343
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,520
Speaker 2: they're not neutrons anymore. They form this weird new state

344
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,080
Speaker 2: of matter called nuclear pasta, which is nearly as delicious

345
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:11,800
Speaker 2: as it sounds.

346
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 1: Do you physicists work hungry? All the time, and is

347
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,040
Speaker 1: that how we came up with spaghetification and stuff like this.

348
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,840
Speaker 2: You know, if you read papers about the hearts of

349
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,400
Speaker 2: neutrons starts, they have these figures showing these like weird

350
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,160
Speaker 2: sheets of matter and they're like, this is nuclear lasagna,

351
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,640
Speaker 2: and if you keep squeezing it you get like nuclear

352
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,240
Speaker 2: RIGATONI and like it's really regular areas.

353
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 1: I'm on board. That sounds great, But.

354
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,440
Speaker 2: The point is you're not just squeezing them together based

355
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,440
Speaker 2: on this radius. There are bonds here, and the balance

356
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,320
Speaker 2: of these forces determine how you could actually pack them together. Now,

357
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,800
Speaker 2: try to add some electrons, right, Martin wants us to

358
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 2: squeeze in all the particles. So you might think, well, well,

359
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,440
Speaker 2: how close could you really bring electrons to these particles. Well,

360
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,080
Speaker 2: the answer is the hydrogen atom. That's what the hydrogen

361
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 2: atom is. It's the closest you can bring an electron

362
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 2: to be happy near a proton and a neutron. It's

363
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,920
Speaker 2: already in its minimum state. You can't localize electrons more

364
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,920
Speaker 2: than that because of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Their really

365
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,960
Speaker 2: tiny mass means a small uncertainty in their momentum means

366
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,200
Speaker 2: a huge uncertainty in their velocity. So basically, you can't

367
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,920
Speaker 2: bring electrons closer to protons and neutrons than they already

368
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,399
Speaker 2: are the most of the universe. Right, And you might think, okay,

369
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 2: but I'm doing this mental thought exercise where I'm bringing

370
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,720
Speaker 2: them together to touch their surfaces. No, they don't have surfaces, right.

371
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,400
Speaker 2: The concept of a surface should be replaced in your

372
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,359
Speaker 2: mind with like the forces between these things. How happy

373
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 2: are they to come close together?

374
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,920
Speaker 1: Okay, so say you squish everything together and the forces

375
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,800
Speaker 1: get as close as they're comfortable getting together. I know

376
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 1: that when you answer a question, you go big or

377
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 1: you go home. So you've done this calculation.

378
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:54,720
Speaker 2: This is just one more thing I want to say

379
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,000
Speaker 2: before we get there, which is I think this also

380
00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,760
Speaker 2: should change your view of the atom. Like if you're

381
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,440
Speaker 2: thinking about the atom as these tiny little dots orbiting

382
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,920
Speaker 2: with mostly empty space, remember that these dots are where

383
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 2: they are because it's a balance of the forces, which

384
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,679
Speaker 2: means is a lot of energy being exchanged constantly. So

385
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,919
Speaker 2: if you like the particle picture of forces, that like

386
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,440
Speaker 2: the way things indirect or electromagnetically is by exchanging photons,

387
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,159
Speaker 2: you should take your mental image that's like filled with

388
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,280
Speaker 2: darkness between all these particles and replace it with like

389
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,159
Speaker 2: a blinding ocean of photons. And the center of the

390
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,359
Speaker 2: atom is not empty. It's a sea of frothing energy, right,

391
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,360
Speaker 2: and so it's not really empty in any sense. But yeah,

392
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 2: let's take Martin's question at face value. We know you

393
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 2: can't treat these things as tiny balls, but let's try, right, So,

394
00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,680
Speaker 2: ignoring the balance of the forces, let's just assume that

395
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,400
Speaker 2: the proton is a hard little sphere like a billiard ball,

396
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,879
Speaker 2: with a radius of ten to the minus fifteen meters.

397
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 2: Then you can calculate its volume, and that would be

398
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 2: ten to the minus forty five meters cubed roughly. Now,

399
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,959
Speaker 2: there's a lot of protons in the universe. We estimate

400
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,160
Speaker 2: is about ten to the eighty protons in the observable universe.

401
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,679
Speaker 2: We don't know how big the full universe is, but

402
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 2: the sphere that we can observe, we know it's volume,

403
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 2: we know its density, we know how much matter there is.

404
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 2: So that's a number we can calculate, and that's a

405
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 2: really really big number. It's like nobody can hold that

406
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,400
Speaker 2: number in their mind. But fortunately our mathematics can describe it.

407
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 2: So take ten to the eighty tiny little balls, each

408
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,360
Speaker 2: of which has this tiny little volume, and you pack

409
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 2: it together and you end up with something whose volume

410
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 2: is really quite large. It's ten to the thirty five

411
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 2: cubic meters. And it's flobergasting to think about, because you're

412
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,639
Speaker 2: taking these objects whose individual volumes are ten of the

413
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,879
Speaker 2: minus forty five cubic meters, and you end up with

414
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,159
Speaker 2: a total volume of ten to the thirty five. And

415
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,480
Speaker 2: the reason that number still ends up so big is

416
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 2: just the sheer number of protons in the universe is

417
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,560
Speaker 2: just such a big number that, even though they're so tiny,

418
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 2: they add up to make a really big ball. It's

419
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 2: not easy to visualize ten to the thirty five cubic meters.

420
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 2: But that's a sphere whose radius is about a trillion meters,

421
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,880
Speaker 2: which is like seven au or about fifteen hundred times

422
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 2: the radius of the Sun. So if you did this,

423
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 2: took all the protons in the universe and like centered

424
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 2: them in the center of the Solar System, it would

425
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 2: be a sphere whose edge was between Jupiter and Saturn's orbit.

426
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that was a great question, Martin. There

427
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 1: was so much unpacked there, So.

428
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 2: No, Martin, you can't put it in your trunk. Ah

429
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 2: un THISUS. Martin's got a really big truck.

430
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes some really big trucks in the US.

431
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,119
Speaker 2: It makes it ridiculously big trucks that are good of

432
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 2: running over pedestrians or hauling the universe. All right, Martin,

433
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,439
Speaker 2: let us know what you think of our answer.

434
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 4: That was absolutely fantastic.

435
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

436
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 4: Not only did it answer my question, but it also

437
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 4: answered twenty other questions I.

438
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 2: Didn't even know I had.

439
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 4: And my original question actually came up because it was

440
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 4: moving apartments. So now I know that with my van,

441
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 4: I guess I'd have to do at least four drives

442
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 4: round trip if I wanted to move the universe. So

443
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 4: thank you very much.

444
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,159
Speaker 1: All right. Next up, we have a biology question from Ricky.

445
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 3: I've been trying to figure out the way to even

446
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 3: phrase this question for a long time. When you have

447
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 3: a carnivore, they tend to run down the sick, the weak,

448
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 3: and the elderly. But argument says they prefer an elephant

449
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 3: in its prime if they could get it. So my

450
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 3: question is parasites, how opportunistic are they? Is there a

451
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 3: level of health that they tend to be looking for.

452
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 3: Do they want to go after the healthiest or do

453
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 3: they tend to infect the sick, the young, and the elderly.

454
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 1: Oh, this is a fun question.

455
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 2: Mmmmm. I was hoping you'd react that way.

456
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it has parasites in it, so I'm

457
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: immediately excited about it.

458
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 2: So glad you're excited about this question. Help me understand

459
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 2: Ricky's question. Is he saying that carnivores tend to eat

460
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 2: the sick and the weak and the elderly because those

461
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 2: are the ones they can catch. But if they have

462
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 2: their druthers, they would rather eat a big, meaty specimen

463
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 2: in its prime because it's more food, or because it's

464
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 2: healthier and therefore were going to be better food. Is

465
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 2: that the idea?

466
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 1: I think that is the idea. I can understand the

467
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,239
Speaker 1: motivation here that a carnivore probably would like to have

468
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: the largest packet of food possible, and an animal that's

469
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: easy to catch could be an animal that's sick, so

470
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 1: the quality of the meat could be lower. But I

471
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: think in general animals are quite happy to go for

472
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: the sick, the elderly, the babies like whatever they're able

473
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 1: to catch, because you know, taking down an elephant in

474
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 1: his prime is dangerous for for example, a lion that

475
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: could get stopped to them. And so for a lot

476
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 1: of reasons, I think animals tend to go for whatever

477
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: prey they can catch. And this is something that parasites

478
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: actually take advantage of. So, for example, there is a

479
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: tapeworm parasite called Aconococcus granulosis and it infects moose and

480
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 1: it lives in the moose lungs and it replicates and

481
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 1: produces this giant, fluid filled sack. It's kind of like

482
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: a tumor, and inside the sack there's all these baby parasites.

483
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 1: But having a huge sack in your lungs makes it

484
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: harder to run away from wolves, and so these animals

485
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: get debilitated, they are sick, it's hard for them to

486
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 1: get away from wolves, and so wolves end up catching

487
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: these moose and then they end up eating the parasites

488
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: while they're eating the moose and they get infected.

489
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 2: Is that good for the parasites or not good for

490
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: the parasites.

491
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: That is great for the parasites. So these tapeworms need

492
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: to get from the moose to the wolves to complete

493
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: their life cycle. Wow, yeah, it's incredible. When they're in

494
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: the wolves, they often don't seem to cause that much damage.

495
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: And frequently when you get these parasites that have to

496
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: go from a prey to a predator and they get

497
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: transmitted by the predator eating the prey, the predators when

498
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: they harbor the parasites don't tend to be that debilitated.

499
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 1: It seems like the parasites tend to live. For example,

500
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: in their gut they produce eggs, and when you're in

501
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 1: what's called the definitive host, which is where you find

502
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: a mate, you produce eggs that pass like with the

503
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: host feces out into the environment again. And so if

504
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: that predator is eating a lot, pooping a lot, going

505
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 1: all over the place, then your eggs are transmitted everywhere,

506
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: and so they tend to not damage this particular host

507
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: in the life cycle. But then when you get into

508
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: a host that needs to get eaten by the predator,

509
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: you do often see those kinds of hosts getting debilitated

510
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: or messed up in some way by the parasites because

511
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: that facilitates transmission.

512
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 2: So let's see if I understand these things end up

513
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: in a moose, and they want the moose to get

514
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 2: caught by wolves, so they end up in the low lungs,

515
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 2: slowing the moose down. Wait, hold on, nerdy question. Plural

516
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: of moose is mease? I don't know, mices, moses, moses, mooses,

517
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. So they slow the moose down and

518
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 2: then the wolf eats them gets the parasite, which is

519
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 2: what the parasite wants. But somehow the parasite manages to

520
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: not slow down the wolf because it wants the wolf

521
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 2: to be healthy. How does it manage to end up

522
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 2: in the moose lungs the mease lungs, but not in

523
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 2: the wolf lungs? Does it know when it is in

524
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: wolf or moose? It does taste the flesh and like

525
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 2: this tastes wolfy well, so when.

526
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: It's in the moose, it makes the fluid filled sex.

527
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: I don't know how it knows that it's in the moose,

528
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: but there might be some sort of cues that tell

529
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: it what host it's in.

530
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 2: I feel like if I was injected in a random animal,

531
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 2: I could tell the difference between a moose and a wolf.

532
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: But maybe not.

533
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: I really doubt it. I mean, maybe it takes longer

534
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: to pass through an herbivores digestive system than a carnivores,

535
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: so maybe you could track how long it took before

536
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: you were pooped out. How would you tell the difference, Daniel.

537
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: I mean they taste different, right, like ones a predator

538
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 2: ones an herbivore. I'm pretty sure if you put like

539
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 2: a moose steak and a wolf steak in front of me,

540
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 2: I could taste the difference.

541
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're not eating steaks of the different animals

542
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: for comparison, they're blind inside of an animal's gut.

543
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm eating it right, Like, how are these

544
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 2: things surviving?

545
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 5: Uh?

546
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: They are sort of absorbing nutrients across their skin. They're

547
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: not sampling the steak.

548
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I understand they're not going to be like

549
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 2: having a baked potato and a one sauce or whatever.

550
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 2: But they are interacting with They're eating nutrients from this animal,

551
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,719
Speaker 2: so that information is there. I don't know parasites are

552
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 2: sophisticated enough to tell the difference, but it's possible in.

553
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: Principle, right, Yeah, Yeah, And I think there are some

554
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: cues that parasites can use to figure out what host

555
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: they're in. But also, you know, just because of the

556
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: way things often happen in nature, there's like a cycle

557
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: to what host you can expect you're gonna find yourself

558
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: in next. Like, if you are in a moose's lung,

559
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: you're probably not going to end up in the moose's

560
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: lungs again, because moose don't tend to eat each other's lungs.

561
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: But you are pretty likely to end up in a

562
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: wolf gut, for example.

563
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 2: So it could just be first host, second host.

564
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: It might not even know, yeah, right, just working through

565
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: its life cycle, and it doesn't form those fluid filled

566
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: sacs in wolves. It's just they find mates, they make eggs,

567
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: and the eggs pass into the environment, and then the

568
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: moose accidentally eats the eggs and that's how they get infected.

569
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: Man, it's good to be a wolf. But I think

570
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 2: that Ricky's question is essentially about choosing the host, right,

571
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 2: So in this case, they debilitate the host. But do

572
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: they want to start from a healthy moose or do

573
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 2: they not care? Are they happy to get into a

574
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: moose that's about to get gobbled by a wolf anyway?

575
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 2: Does it matter whether the moose is healthy or not?

576
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: But I think Ricky's question is do parasites try to

577
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: choose the host that they end up in.

578
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 2: I think Ricky's question is do they care about the

579
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: health of the host the same way that carnivores are

580
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 2: choosing the sick and the feeble and easy to catch.

581
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: Do parasites care about the health of the host that

582
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: they're infecting.

583
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of choice, and so so

584
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: for a kind of caucus granulosis, I don't think it

585
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: has a preference for the host that it's in, as

586
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: long as it can debilitate that host and get it

587
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: eaten by wolves. You maybe don't want to infect a

588
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: host that is like super sick and is about to

589
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: die tomorrow, because after a parasite infects a host, it

590
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: takes days to weeks before it's mature enough that it

591
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: could survive jumping to the next host, and so they

592
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: probably don't want the host to die immediately. But in general,

593
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: most parasites don't have a lot of choice because parasites

594
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: aren't very mobile. You might think back to are we

595
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: called it dirt worms, but these are the geo helmets,

596
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: the nematodes that live in the soil. And when we

597
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: were talking about that parasite. We were talking about how

598
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: the hookworms need to burrow through the feet, burrow through

599
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: the skin to get into their hosts. They can't be

600
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: very choosy. They like move away from the feces and

601
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: then they just have to wait and hope something steps

602
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: on them. And so if like, these feet are stinky,

603
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: I'd rather not infect this person. Like, they don't have

604
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: a choice. They take what they.

605
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: Can, not having a choice and not having a preference

606
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: or different things. Right the way we were talking about

607
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: appreciation nature, it might be that they don't have a

608
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: choice and end up in whatever moose. But there are

609
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: some moose that they're like, mmm, this is a primo moose. Yeah,

610
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: I'm really loving this one. Other ones are like, man,

611
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: this moose kind of sucks.

612
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: Like and there's some moose that probably have better immune

613
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: systems than others. And so if you're going to try

614
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: to infect a moose, you'd rather have the moose that's

615
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: immune system isn't going to slow your growth. They don't

616
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: really get like a choice, you know, they don't get

617
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: like a platter with five different moose and they get

618
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: to pick which moose looks the most delicious. You know,

619
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: like when you go to the seafood store and you're like,

620
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: I want that lobster. They don't get to pick.

621
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: But if we invited it on the podcast, it might

622
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 2: still have an opinion.

623
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I mean, you know, maybe we all have opinions.

624
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: Do but we don't have that. Instead, we have the

625
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 2: president of the hell Menothological Society of Washington speaking for

626
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: all parasites.

627
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know that I get to speak on

628
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: behalf of the parasite.

629
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: But you are, you're telling us what they prefer.

630
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: I'm telling you they might have preferences, which is hedging

631
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: my best even more. But and then when we were

632
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: talking about the dirt worms, we also talked about whipworms

633
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: and and they get into hosts when their eggs are

634
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: accidentally consumed, and there too, they don't have a choice,

635
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: like they just get eaten by whoever they get eaten by,

636
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: and then they got to make the best out of

637
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: the situation that they're in. There are trematods, So these

638
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: are if you've heard of schistosomiasis or liver flukes, there's

639
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: some trematode diseases that are bad in like Asia and Africa.

640
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: We don't have too many to worry about here. Swimmers itch.

641
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of swimmers?

642
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 5: Itch?

643
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 2: Sounds uncomfortable.

644
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: It is uncomfortable. So the idea with trematods is that

645
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: they typically start in snails. They often castrate the snail

646
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: and they reproduce asexually, so they make tons and tons

647
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: and tons of these free swimming infectious stages that leave

648
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: the snail and they go off in search of something else.

649
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: Swimmers itch is when you get these free swimming stages

650
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: that are going off in search of a bird to

651
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: infect snacks, but they accidentally hit you and they've taken

652
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: what they can get. Maybe they can't tell the difference,

653
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: but they burrow into you and then your immune system

654
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: kills them almost immediately. But then you get this horrible

655
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: itch afterwards because you have an immune reaction to it

656
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: for some reason.

657
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: Because it's called swimmers ith, I'm imagining this itch is

658
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: in a very uncomfortable place.

659
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: Oh geez, Daniel, you just keep bringing the conversation back there.

660
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: But it could be there. But my colleagues and I

661
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: usually get it on like our calves because we're in

662
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: salt marshes and it's yeah, don't worry don't worry. That's

663
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: free swimming stage of the parasite. Depending on the species

664
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: that you're looking at, they often have strategies to try

665
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: to get closer to where their hosts usually hang out.

666
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: So if they're leaving a snail and hoping to infect

667
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: a fish, some of them will respond by swimming towards

668
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: whatever light source you give them, so they're trying to

669
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: swim up to the water surface where they're more likely

670
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,479
Speaker 1: to encounter certain kinds of fish. But once they encounter

671
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: a fish, they'll take what they can get. They're not

672
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: choosy because literally two thousand of these free swimming stages

673
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: of trematade called you Up work as California Asis. It's

674
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: the one that I studied for my PhD. Two thousand

675
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: of them leave the snail every day like that's how

676
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: many need to be made in the hopes that some

677
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: of them encounter a fish. Because there's a low probability game,

678
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: so in general, there's not a lot of evidence of choosiness.

679
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: They're not very mobile. They don't have a chance to

680
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: be choosy. But parasitoid wasps can be a little bit

681
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: more mobile. So parasitoid wasps lay their eggs in some insect,

682
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: and then their eggs consume the inside of the insect

683
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: and then burst out of it when they're done. This

684
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 1: is yeah, it's super creepy. There's some evidence that some

685
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: parasitoid wasps can tell if a for example, caterpillar has

686
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: already had eggs laid in it, and then they'll go

687
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: off in search of another one because they don't want

688
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: their offspring to have to compete with like older wasp

689
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: babies that are already starting to eat the caterpillar from

690
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: the inside. So there's some choosiness in the more mobile parasites,

691
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: but in general they don't get a chance to.

692
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: Do much choosing all right, So to some of the

693
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: answer for Ricky, I think that there are some outcomes

694
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: for the parasite that are better, Like if they get

695
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: into a healthy host, it lasts long enough for them

696
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: to do their whole life cycle dance. But they don't

697
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: get choices. Often, unlike carnivores, they can't pick who they're

698
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 2: going to chase. After though if we invited them on

699
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: the podcast, they might still have thoughts about where they

700
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 2: ended up. We don't know what is it like to

701
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: be a parasite nobody knows.

702
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: Maybe you should be president of the Helmetological Society of

703
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: Washington because you're doing a great job speaking for the parasites.

704
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, I want to be a philosopher

705
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: of parasitology. I don't think that exists. We just invented

706
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: a new academic field today.

707
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. There's probably no funding for it, unfortunately,

708
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: but I hope we're wrong about that. But well, let's

709
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: see if Ricky would like to fund a new position

710
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: for the philosopher of parasitology.

711
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: And if I'm wrong and you are a philosopher of parasitology,

712
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: we want to hear from you right to us. Please

713
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: two questions at Damilankelly dot org.

714
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: And while we're waiting for that email to come in,

715
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: let's see what Ricky thought of the answer.

716
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 6: First of all, it is obviously my fault because I

717
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 6: knew what question I asked, and then I was like, oh,

718
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 6: I'll listen to your answer while I'm having lunch. But

719
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 6: that aside, which was to on me, Thank you Daniel

720
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 6: for bringing it back. My real question was about preference.

721
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 6: If there were the ability to infect an quote unquote

722
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 6: ideal host, what would that look like, and I think

723
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 6: you really got there, especially with the mobile ones with

724
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 6: the parasitoid wasps, which are a big thing for me

725
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 6: as a farmer. And also I have two useless philosophy

726
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 6: degrees and I'm considering pursuing this third one. Thanks and

727
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 6: thank you Kelly for going into such incredible nerdy detail

728
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 6: for me.

729
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: All Right, for our next question, we have a question

730
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: from Wendy.

731
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 5: Hey, I'm Wendy. Came from my I have a question

732
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 5: about the speed of light. The speed of light is

733
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 5: something really fundamental, I think, because both light and gravity

734
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 5: waves travel at that speed. Does every force carrier travel

735
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 5: at the speed of light? And if that's the case,

736
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 5: it's not the speed of light. Isn't it the speed

737
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 5: of the universe?

738
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, And Wendy asks a really deep, really

739
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,479
Speaker 2: basic question about the nature of the universe and motion

740
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 2: at the speed of light and why do we call

741
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: it the speed of light? Anyway? All sorts of stuff

742
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 2: connected here that I hear a lot of people puzzling about,

743
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 2: and that I still puzzle about because the nature of

744
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 2: the universe and transmission of information is not something we

745
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: have fully understood, even if we do have a great

746
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: mathematical framework for describing it.

747
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: Well, let's start from the beginning. Does every force carrier

748
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: travel at the speed of light? I'm gonna guess the

749
00:35:54,239 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: answer is it depends. No, no, no, we.

750
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: Are watering down the crispness of physics today. Right, you

751
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: are right. The answer is it depends. But it depends

752
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 2: very precisely on something, which is whether the force carrier

753
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: has mass. You see, things that have mass cannot travel

754
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: at the speed of light. Never ever, Ever, they can

755
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 2: approach the speed of light. You can keep pushing them

756
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: and pushing them and pushing them. They will ask them talk.

757
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 2: They get closer and closer to the speed of light

758
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 2: relative to something. But things that have mass cannot travel

759
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: at the speed of light. It would take infinite energy. Sorry, sorry,

760
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: both exactly. Keep pushing though, keep pushing. And for those

761
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: of you out there thinking, don't things traveling near the

762
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: speed of light also gain mass and become infinitely massive?

763
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: The answer to that is no, they just have infinite energy.

764
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 2: And we have a whole episode talking about whether potatoes

765
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 2: turned into black holes need the speed of light. Check

766
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 2: that out if you're interested in the question of relativistic mass.

767
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 2: But the issue here is whether something has mass. So

768
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 2: things that do have mass can never travel at the

769
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 2: speed of light relative to anybody, whereas things that don't

770
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 2: have mass are always moving at the speed of light

771
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: for everybody. So when he asks, does every force carrier

772
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: travel at the speed of light? It depends on whether

773
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: they have mass. So let's quiz Kelly, what are they

774
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: some force carriers?

775
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: The electromagnetic field?

776
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what is the particle associated with that electron? No,

777
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: the photons?

778
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: Ohton, Yeah, that's what I said.

779
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: Yes, So the photon is the particle that transmits the

780
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 2: electromagnetic force. Like when two electrons are repelling each other,

781
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 2: what's happening there? Will electrons cause ripples in the electromagnetic

782
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: field because they have a charge, And check out our

783
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: episode on weak Harper charge to get like a deeper

784
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: understanding of what charge is. But essentially, it's a coupling

785
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: between two fields. And so two electrons nearing each other

786
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: are both causing these ripples and the electromagnetic field and

787
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: those ripples push on each other. And so you can

788
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 2: think about it from the field perspective, or you can

789
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: think about it from the particle perspective and say, those

790
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 2: ripples in the electromagnetic field, those are photons, and so

791
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 2: what's happening when the elect trans come near each other

792
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 2: as they are exchanging photons. That's what's meant by a

793
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 2: force carrier, the particles associated with the field that transmits

794
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: that force. So for the electromagnetic force, it's the electromagnetic

795
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 2: field and the force carrier is the photon and photons

796
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 2: they are massless, and so they do move at the

797
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: speed of light. Now, other forces have different fields and

798
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 2: different force carriers. So for example, the strong force.

799
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: Is that the one with the colors, Yes.

800
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 2: Exactly, the strong force. The charge there is not a

801
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: plus or minus. It's a red, green or blue, which

802
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 2: is really weird. And there's a bunch of gluon fields.

803
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: There's eight gluon fields, and each field carries two colors,

804
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: not just one, so it can be like red, anti

805
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 2: green or something crazy. And these gluons are also massless.

806
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 2: So gluon fields transmit information at the speed of light

807
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 2: as well. So that's two force carriers that do travel

808
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: at the speed of light. And gravitational waves also move

809
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 2: at the speed of light. Now, gravitational waves not technically

810
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: a force carrier. They are ripples. In the gravitational field

811
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: created by the acceleration of masses. But information in gravity

812
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 2: does travel at the speed of light. And we don't

813
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 2: know what a force carrier is for gravity because we

814
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 2: don't have a theory of quantum gravity, so we don't

815
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 2: know like, are there gravitons, etcetera, et cetera. But gravitational

816
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: waves definitely travel at the speed of light. But other

817
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 2: force carriers do have mass. So, for example, the weak force,

818
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 2: it's all messed up because of the Higgs boson. Higgs

819
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: comes in and it makes the W and the Z

820
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 2: have mass, whereas the photon doesn't. Makes a big mess

821
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: of the weak force. So these things are quite massive.

822
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go ahead and interject that I'm not

823
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: the one who added fuzziness to physics.

824
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:42,240
Speaker 2: It was Higgs.

825
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was Higgs. Go ahead, tell me more about this.

826
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the W and the Z bosons are really

827
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: quite massive. The w's mass is like eighty times the

828
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 2: mass of a proton and the Z is like ninety times.

829
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 2: These are super duper massive particles. And it's one reason

830
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: why the weak force is so weak, because it's force

831
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,760
Speaker 2: carriers are so massive. They don't travel at the speed

832
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: of light, and they're very unstable. They decay very quickly

833
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 2: into other stuff. And so these force carriers that W

834
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: and Z do not travel at the speed of light,

835
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 2: so it depends on whether they're massless.

836
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so we've answered the first part of the question

837
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: that no, every force carrier does not travel at the

838
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 1: speed of light. Okay, So where do we go from there?

839
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so she's asking, like, why do we call

840
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 2: it the speed of light if other things travel at

841
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,879
Speaker 2: that same speed. It's not special to photons, And she's right,

842
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 2: photons are the first thing we saw that was massless

843
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: that traveled at the maximum speed of the universe, and

844
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: so it really is the maximum speed of information in

845
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: the universe, and all massless things can travel at this

846
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 2: massless speed and have to travel at this massless speed.

847
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's the speed of information or the speed

848
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 2: of causality, or the speed of the universe. You could

849
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 2: also call it the speed of gluons. Right. We call

850
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: it the speed of light because light was the first

851
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: thing we discovered that mood at this so it's just

852
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 2: sort of historical, but it's also really fascinating, like philosophically,

853
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: why the universe has a maximum speed, and why it's

854
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: this number and why it means that all observers have

855
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: to see massless things moving at this speed.

856
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: So, first of all, I think I prefer speed of

857
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: the universe. I don't know, that sounds more epic. But why, yeah,

858
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: why is this the speed of the universe?

859
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody knows currently, we don't even know if there

860
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 2: is an explanation. One possibility is that it comes out

861
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: of the way space is built. You know, space could

862
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 2: be quantized. It could be a bunch of pixels and

863
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: these pixels could interact with each other through quantum entanglement,

864
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,919
Speaker 2: and that's how space is woven together from a bunch

865
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 2: of like little space pixels, and that the speed of

866
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 2: information is connected to that entanglement, and so it could

867
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: come out of some deeper understanding of space. That's just

868
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: a speculation currently, we don't know. Currently, it's just a

869
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 2: number that we measure, and it could be anything. It

870
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 2: could be twice as big, it could be half as big.

871
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 2: And it's important number because it really determines what it's

872
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: like to be in the universe. Like, on one hand,

873
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 2: having the speed of light be as small as it

874
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 2: is relative to the size of the universe means we

875
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 2: can't see that far right, Like the whole regions of

876
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: the universe we can't even see because in the fourteen

877
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: billion years of its history, life hasn't had time to

878
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: get here. Imagine if the speed of light was a

879
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: thousand or a billion times higher, we could see so

880
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 2: much further into the universe, and the information in our

881
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 2: neighborhood wouldn't be as out of date. That would be amazing.

882
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,439
Speaker 2: The other hand, there'd be downsides also, like the fact

883
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 2: that the speed of light is not infinite protects us

884
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: from alien death rays. For example, you know, if an

885
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: alien shoots a death ray at Earth from Andromeda, that's

886
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 2: a few million light years away. We got a few

887
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 2: million years before it comes here, So that's cool. If

888
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: the speed of light was like instantaneous or much much higher,

889
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 2: then we would be vulnerable to alien death rays in

890
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: a much bigger volume. So it isolates us in a

891
00:42:58,760 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 2: protective way.

892
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 1: No time to get our affairs together.

893
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Talk to your parasites, get everything in order.

894
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: Are your parasites in your will? Have you figured out

895
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 2: all that out? Kelly?

896
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: You know I don't have a will. Yet. Oh no,

897
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,439
Speaker 1: I know, that's like literally on my to do list

898
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: for this week, but I'll make sure someone good gets

899
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: my parasites.

900
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's really fascinating. We don't know the answer.

901
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: It's possible that the value of the speed of light

902
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: is determined by some deeper physics we don't know yet,

903
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: or it's possible it's just like a random number and

904
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 2: when the universe cools and settles, it turns out to

905
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 2: be this number. And in the multiverse, different universes have

906
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: different values of this number. We don't know the answer

907
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 2: to that, but it is fascinating and it's something I

908
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 2: hear a lot of people sort of misunderstanding when they're

909
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 2: writing to me and asking questions about it. You know,

910
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: for example, there is this constant question like what is

911
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: it like to be a photon? You know, do photons

912
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: experience time in the universe that we've talked about that

913
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 2: I think reveals a sort of misunderstanding about the nature

914
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: of these massless objects and their velocity.

915
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: Well, let's see if you've cleared this all up for Wendy.

916
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for your lucid and straightforward answer

917
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 5: about the speed of force carriers. I also appreciated your

918
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 5: elaboration on the speed of the universe why it is

919
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 5: what it is, which is also a question I've pondered.

920
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 5: Of course, I'm left wondering about why the weak force

921
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 5: is so different from the strong force gravity and electromagnetism.

922
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 5: Why it froze out of the electroweak force as the

923
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 5: universe cooled. But that's another question altogether. Thanks again.

924
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: All right, well, thank you so much to everyone who

925
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: submitted questions, and we are looking forward to hearing your questions.

926
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: You can write us at questions at Danielankelly dot org

927
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: and we will definitely write you back, either with an

928
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: answer if we know it right away, or if you've

929
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: kind of stumped us, or it's a question we get often,

930
00:44:58,360 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: we'll answer it on the show.

931
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: Right as family friendly questions, Kelly doesn't have to cringe

932
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: when I'm responding to them.

933
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: You know, Daniel, I feel like you took family friendly

934
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: topics and sort of morph them into something not family friendly,

935
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: so I don't think our listeners can win.

936
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: I have a special gift to that.

937
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: You would have thought that the co host with the

938
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: last name wider Smith would.

939
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: Have that gift. There you go, that was you, and

940
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 2: that was all you.

941
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: We're a good team, all right, everybody, Until next time.

942
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.

943
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe is produced by iHeart Reading.

944
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: We would love to hear from you, We really would.

945
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: We want to know what questions you have about this

946
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 2: Extraordinary Universe.

947
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: I want to know your thoughts on recent shows, suggestions

948
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: for future shows. If you contact us, we will get

949
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: back to you.

950
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 2: We really mean it. We answer every message. Email us

951
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 2: at questions at Daniel and Kelly dot org.

952
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: You can find us on social media. We have accounts

953
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: on x, Instagram, Blue Sky and on all of those platforms.

954
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: You can find us at D and K universe.

955
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: Op chaye right to us.