WEBVTT - Part Two: How Jeffrey Epstein Helped Build the Modern World

0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.760
<v Speaker 1>As media.

0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Ah, welcome pod to Behind the Bastard Cast episodes Epstein, Jeffrey,

0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:13.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm Robert Evans.

0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:15.040
<v Speaker 3>Hi.

0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:17.279
<v Speaker 2>How are you doing? Andrew T?

0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.960
<v Speaker 4>Like that you said the last sentence in syntactical order. Yeah.

0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's upsetting, isn't it?

0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:25.360
<v Speaker 4>Ever? Robert? Am I?

0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.000
<v Speaker 2>What am I up to? What's my plan? You know?

0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:30.920
<v Speaker 2>What's my ultimate goal? What am I working towards here

0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.239
<v Speaker 2>by doing this? I don't know, Andrew T. I just

0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know. How are you okay?

0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:38.800
<v Speaker 4>I just ate the top half of a tomato, and

0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:40.280
<v Speaker 4>I actually feel pretty energized.

0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.839
<v Speaker 2>Best half of a tomato, to be honest, like the

0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:45.839
<v Speaker 2>bottom half of a tomato. That's for chumps idiots.

0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.320
<v Speaker 4>Really, Yeah, stem side, you gotta nibble around the stem.

0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Gotta nibble the stem, baby. I'm always saying that. That's

0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.440
<v Speaker 2>that's why, that's my motto, Baby, nibble the stem. You

0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:59.960
<v Speaker 2>know you put it on T shirts? That's right? Wow, Andrew?

0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Where can people find you on the internet? Before we

0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.440
<v Speaker 2>get into our episodes for Today, where we continue the

0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.640
<v Speaker 2>tale of Jeffrey Epstein birthing the modern world, man birthing

0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:08.479
<v Speaker 2>the modern world.

0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:11.680
<v Speaker 4>Thanks, I guess I don't know Andrew on social media.

0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.360
<v Speaker 4>But I do you know as this racist the podcast

0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.760
<v Speaker 4>and we have our premium shows at Suboptimalpods dot com,

0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:20.880
<v Speaker 4>which are fun. We've been doing one called starter Trek,

0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:23.720
<v Speaker 4>which is really fun, a little how slightly insider look

0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:27.920
<v Speaker 4>at star Trek my lovest Tawny Newsome knows everything about

0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.400
<v Speaker 4>Star Trek. She writes on Startrek Academy. She was the

0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.520
<v Speaker 4>voice of Beckett Mariner other stuff.

0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.280
<v Speaker 2>I think Keeper of the Flame. Well, I also want

0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:41.080
<v Speaker 2>to send people somewhere. The Artist Mentorship Program in Portland

0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:47.480
<v Speaker 2>helps primarily youth experiencing homelessness, get essential supplies and job training,

0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:49.760
<v Speaker 2>and have music and art programs at the heart of

0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.480
<v Speaker 2>their work. If you want to support the good things

0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:54.919
<v Speaker 2>that they do and have done for more than thirty years,

0:01:55.040 --> 0:02:00.360
<v Speaker 2>go to AMPPDX dot org. That's AMPPDX dot org. Okay,

0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:01.640
<v Speaker 2>that's all that, Robert.

0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.800
<v Speaker 4>I appreciate the chance to before all the Haydes shit

0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.560
<v Speaker 4>gets set. Yes, yes, do you like the separation.

0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's important to plug before the Heinus shit gets said,

0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:15.320
<v Speaker 2>because people are going to feel markedly less good about

0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:19.840
<v Speaker 2>the world once we continue talking about Jeffrey Epstein creating

0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.120
<v Speaker 2>all of the bullshit that you deal with on a

0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:26.080
<v Speaker 2>daily basis as a person in society. Sorry about that,

0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:38.920
<v Speaker 2>so Part two. One of the frustrating things about delving

0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.040
<v Speaker 2>into the Epstein files is that you are repeatedly confronted

0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.400
<v Speaker 2>by the fact that Jeffrey Epstein was a person, and

0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.440
<v Speaker 2>like any person, he had nicknames for people in words

0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.040
<v Speaker 2>that he used in an idiosyncratic fashion that only his

0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.920
<v Speaker 2>friends and his social circle fully understood. Everyone's like this,

0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:57.480
<v Speaker 2>but it's weird to be confronted by these very human

0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.200
<v Speaker 2>aspects of the life of a monster. It's frustrating because

0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:03.480
<v Speaker 2>it means there's a lot that will never fully understand.

0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:08.200
<v Speaker 2>For example, Epstein started sending girls, and again, since the

0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.200
<v Speaker 2>term girls was used in the email, and this is

0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:16.040
<v Speaker 2>Jeffery Epstein, we must assume they were underaged kids to brock,

0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.760
<v Speaker 2>or at least there's a good chance they were to brock.

0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:23.079
<v Speaker 2>One of these girls Epstein described as my little Susie

0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.840
<v Speaker 2>or Sue in emails he's sent during the spring of

0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.959
<v Speaker 2>twenty twelve. Youw, I don't think we have a great

0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.480
<v Speaker 2>idea of who this was yet. I haven't figured. At

0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.760
<v Speaker 2>least my clumsy searching around did not figure out who

0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Sue was, and given that she's probably a victim, I

0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.600
<v Speaker 2>don't know that we need to look too hard into this,

0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.520
<v Speaker 2>but she grew very close to Brock Pierce, or at

0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.240
<v Speaker 2>least that's the way Epstein and Brock's emails portray it.

0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:53.640
<v Speaker 2>And Epstein asked regularly after Brock's relationship with Sue with

0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.200
<v Speaker 2>a kind of interest that makes me think that because

0:03:56.240 --> 0:04:00.200
<v Speaker 2>he connected them, maybe Epstein saw Sue as his in

0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.320
<v Speaker 2>to Brock, who he considered a valuable contact. Right, Maybe

0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.280
<v Speaker 2>it was a situation where Epstein quote unquote discovered this girl,

0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.640
<v Speaker 2>however old she actually is, sends her to Brock, They

0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:15.640
<v Speaker 2>become close, and Epstein is curious about this relationship because

0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:20.160
<v Speaker 2>it's his leverage basically, right. Pierce, though, seems to have

0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.640
<v Speaker 2>valued Epstein as well. On May first of twenty twelve,

0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.760
<v Speaker 2>he messaged Jeffrey saying, I know a girl in New York.

0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.839
<v Speaker 2>You may like, how should I introduce you? And then

0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.599
<v Speaker 2>at Jeffrey's like, basically, like, you know, you can send

0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.520
<v Speaker 2>me her Facebook or whatever, and so he sends her.

0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:40.440
<v Speaker 2>He gives her a name and asks like, hey, can

0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.920
<v Speaker 2>you check her out on Facebook? And Jeffrey just replies, cute,

0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:47.680
<v Speaker 2>so great. You know, like this just gives you kind

0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.880
<v Speaker 2>of an insight into how things worked, right, this is

0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.480
<v Speaker 2>brock Is. It seems graduated from being the kind of

0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.800
<v Speaker 2>person that Jeffrey just supplies with girls to being the

0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.560
<v Speaker 2>kind of person who is connecting Jeffrey to girl. Yeah, right,

0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.240
<v Speaker 2>which is an evolution of their relationship. Again, I don't

0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:09.600
<v Speaker 2>know how old this person is, but he does use

0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:14.200
<v Speaker 2>the word girl, so it's not legally he's questionable to wonder.

0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.080
<v Speaker 4>Right. It's also like this thing where it's so like

0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.080
<v Speaker 4>because you start to also kind of get the sense that,

0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.760
<v Speaker 4>I mean, on some level, they knew what they were doing.

0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Was wrong, but it doesn't feel like.

0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:26.800
<v Speaker 4>It was illegal. Yeah.

0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't think the knew it was wrong in

0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.599
<v Speaker 2>im morals. They certainly don't believe it, but they know

0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.560
<v Speaker 2>that if people find out, they could get in trouble.

0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah about a lot of what they're doing, right, Yeah,

0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.440
<v Speaker 4>they don't seem to consider what they're doing to be wrong.

0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:45.919
<v Speaker 2>No, they think they treat sex trafficking of underage girls

0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.520
<v Speaker 2>the way I think normal people treat like doing drugs, right,

0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.600
<v Speaker 2>where like it's illegal. You want to be a little

0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:55.800
<v Speaker 2>careful about it because you could get in trouble if

0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.080
<v Speaker 2>you get caught. But you're not judging your friend because

0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:03.480
<v Speaker 2>they do acid once a year or take mushrooms occasionally, right, right,

0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.479
<v Speaker 2>That's very much how they treat it, right, right. So

0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:12.320
<v Speaker 2>a month after this email chain where Brock sends Epstein

0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.960
<v Speaker 2>this girl's Facebook page, Pierce told Epstein that he was

0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.960
<v Speaker 2>taking a trip to Moscow, Kiev and Odessa because that

0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.400
<v Speaker 2>was an itinerary you could have back in twenty twelve.

0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Epstein asked him to take photos and find me a present,

0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.839
<v Speaker 2>and Pierce replied, will do, and then a smiley face,

0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:34.560
<v Speaker 2>and those photos are photos of girls, and the present

0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:36.480
<v Speaker 2>is girls.

0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:36.920
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.919
<v Speaker 2>Several days later, Pierce replied with more than a dozen

0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.040
<v Speaker 2>images of what we have to I believe we're naked

0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.800
<v Speaker 2>young women, or at least scantily clad young women. It's

0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:48.560
<v Speaker 2>a little clear to me because of how you know

0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.039
<v Speaker 2>the email is preserved. But he sends these photos with

0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.919
<v Speaker 2>the sentence the Ukraine is now my favorite country. Smiley face,

0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:57.840
<v Speaker 2>just Ukraine. But I don't know. I feel like when

0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.560
<v Speaker 2>you're the sex trafficking is I shouldn't be a pedant

0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:04.599
<v Speaker 2>about language here, No, and again, we don't know that

0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:06.360
<v Speaker 2>this is sex trafficking. I don't know what age these

0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:11.000
<v Speaker 2>these people are. You know, it's just gross. Brock is

0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:15.840
<v Speaker 2>both being provided by Epstein and also providing too at

0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.560
<v Speaker 2>this point, right, which gives you an idea of how

0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:20.840
<v Speaker 2>a lot of his relationships ships function. This is we're

0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:22.880
<v Speaker 2>talking about him and Pierce, but he had a number

0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.880
<v Speaker 2>of famous dudes who he had similar relationships with where

0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.160
<v Speaker 2>it presumably starts with him feeding them women, but they

0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.840
<v Speaker 2>also you know, push people his way, right, That's how

0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.360
<v Speaker 2>a lot of this certainly funk. Like this like low

0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.320
<v Speaker 2>rent frat house shit where you're like, right, right, exactly,

0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:42.120
<v Speaker 2>it's and they talk about it that way, right. They

0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.280
<v Speaker 2>don't talk about it like we're doing a secret criminal enterprise.

0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:47.400
<v Speaker 2>They talk about it like dudes talking about a hot

0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.120
<v Speaker 2>chick at college, except for the chick is thirty years

0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:54.040
<v Speaker 2>younger than them, right, Yeah, and they met her fucking

0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:58.160
<v Speaker 2>because Gilan Maxwell Spider outside of a high school or something.

0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:02.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Yeah, it's gross. Also in twenty twelve,

0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Epstein continued to gather influence in the world of video games.

0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.640
<v Speaker 2>He started emailing regularly with Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotik.

0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Actually it may have been earlier. In this, we don't

0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.400
<v Speaker 2>know exactly how long he and Bobby were in regular contact.

0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:17.920
<v Speaker 2>The email show at least as far back as November

0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.800
<v Speaker 2>of twenty twelve, which is in that month Kotik visited

0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.560
<v Speaker 2>New York, but they had been friends previously, right. We

0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:27.600
<v Speaker 2>know the two planned to meet in person during that

0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.240
<v Speaker 2>November twenty twelve trip, and we know that Epstein even

0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.000
<v Speaker 2>tempted Kotek to come a day earlier by saying, Hey,

0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.200
<v Speaker 2>if you show up early, you can hang out with

0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Woody Allen. Ew oh boy is well, yeah, I'm on board.

0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:42.160
<v Speaker 2>You don't want to hang with Woody Allen.

0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:47.640
<v Speaker 4>I mean, look, at least these guys morality is consistent. Yeah,

0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:48.480
<v Speaker 4>I did.

0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:50.760
<v Speaker 2>The first time I saw Woody in one of these,

0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:52.320
<v Speaker 2>I had a moment of free kunters like, oh god,

0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.319
<v Speaker 2>is it Woody Harrelson. That would really bum me out?

0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:58.360
<v Speaker 2>And it's like, oh, no, exists, It's gotta be Woody Allen, right, yeah,

0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.439
<v Speaker 2>and it is. It is Woody Allen. It's what's interesting

0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:06.439
<v Speaker 2>to me is that Epstein brings up Woody Allen other times, right,

0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.480
<v Speaker 2>like when he's talking with Elon Musk and he's trying

0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.160
<v Speaker 2>to convince Elon Musk to hang out one Christmas. He

0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.520
<v Speaker 2>also brings out like Woody Allen's gonna be there. It

0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.000
<v Speaker 2>could be you and me and Woody Allen partying together.

0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:18.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he seems to think this is like a

0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.840
<v Speaker 2>big get for a lot, like this is maybe if

0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.640
<v Speaker 2>I sweeten the pot with Woody Allen, this rich, famous

0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:24.960
<v Speaker 2>guy will want to hang out with me.

0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.480
<v Speaker 4>I mean, to be fair, Manhattan is basically what these

0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:32.320
<v Speaker 4>guys are trying to aspire to like at all times.

0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, Manhattan or fucking I mean, we don't

0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:41.960
<v Speaker 2>need to talk about Woody Allen movies. So that said Kotech,

0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:44.720
<v Speaker 2>and again we can we know they were emailing regularly

0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.000
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twelve. Kotech is connected to Epstein for quite

0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.600
<v Speaker 2>a while longer than that. We have a two thousand

0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:52.760
<v Speaker 2>and four April of two thousand and four email between

0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.240
<v Speaker 2>him and Gilan Maxwell where he's talking about Gillen's sexy body.

0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.320
<v Speaker 2>So they the two of them seem to have had

0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:02.319
<v Speaker 2>an affair of some sort, which at least Gillen's an adult.

0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:07.320
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know, Bobby, you get the maybe had

0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.840
<v Speaker 2>sex with an adult while hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein Award,

0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.800
<v Speaker 2>which is not much of an award, Bobby Kotick not

0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:18.720
<v Speaker 2>much of an award. The most significant aspect of Kotek

0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.400
<v Speaker 2>and Epstein's friendship was that Jeffrey used as an influence

0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:25.160
<v Speaker 2>over Bobby to push for more micro transactions in video games.

0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.400
<v Speaker 2>He's really trying to convince Bobby this is the future

0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:31.520
<v Speaker 2>of gaming, right. Bobby's already convinced of this, but Epstein's

0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.480
<v Speaker 2>further piling on right and is trying to encourage some

0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:36.880
<v Speaker 2>specific ways that this should develop. I don't mean to

0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.800
<v Speaker 2>say that like Epstein introduced the idea to Bobby Kotick.

0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.120
<v Speaker 2>He's the kind of soulless school who would always have

0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.600
<v Speaker 2>loved this thing and was pushing for it previously, but

0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.600
<v Speaker 2>Epstein is trying to shift him in specific directions as

0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.120
<v Speaker 2>relates to this stuff. On May second of twenty thirteen,

0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Kotik asked Epstein for advice ahead of a meeting with

0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.880
<v Speaker 2>New York City Department of Education Chancellor Joel Klein. Specifically,

0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.600
<v Speaker 2>he asked if Epstein knew of any Edu tan games

0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.640
<v Speaker 2>that we're doing it right, and what I assume was

0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.880
<v Speaker 2>happening here is that as CEO of Activision Blizzard, he's

0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.840
<v Speaker 2>meeting with the Department of New York City Education Chancellor

0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:10.480
<v Speaker 2>to see if, like, can we make a deal about

0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.679
<v Speaker 2>like providing educational games to the school system New York. Right, Like,

0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.560
<v Speaker 2>that's probably the reason for this. And again, because I

0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.920
<v Speaker 2>can't say directly, here is how Epstein influenced how Kotik

0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.240
<v Speaker 2>felt about micro transactions. Here's what he introduced the industry.

0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:26.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't have a clear thing for that, but what

0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.800
<v Speaker 2>I can say is Bobby Kotik valued Epstein's opinions enough

0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.360
<v Speaker 2>that he asks him for advice ahead of a meeting

0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.360
<v Speaker 2>like this, and he listens when Epstein tells him what

0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.040
<v Speaker 2>he thinks should be happening with this stuff, which suggests

0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Epstein is influencing the development of micro transactions in gaming

0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.480
<v Speaker 2>to some level, right, and not the creed, not the

0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.480
<v Speaker 2>main but he's one of the dominoes there.

0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, I'm with Kotik. This is like if we're

0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.480
<v Speaker 1>in twenty thirteen. He got divorced in twenty twelve, this

0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:57.160
<v Speaker 1>before he starts publicly dating Cheryl Sandberg.

0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.320
<v Speaker 4>Yes it is, but this is this is.

0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.520
<v Speaker 1>Just like an interesting timeline for this.

0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.800
<v Speaker 2>From Gillen Maxwell to Sharon Sandberg. What a what a

0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.160
<v Speaker 2>fascinating romantic life this man's had.

0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.959
<v Speaker 1>Disturbing weird little guy, was it?

0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.320
<v Speaker 4>Listen, did you repost on Blue Sky's something about like,

0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:18.400
<v Speaker 4>all right, maybe you're going to get to this about

0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.240
<v Speaker 4>like one of the one of the reasons is to

0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.160
<v Speaker 4>like indoctrinate kids into like.

0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, we're talking about all that right now. So

0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Kochik emails and being like, do you have any suggestions

0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.240
<v Speaker 2>for this meeting with this guy from you know, the

0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Department of Education, New York, and Epstein says you should

0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.640
<v Speaker 2>play Medal of Honor or Call of Duty and then

0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.520
<v Speaker 2>quote you will learn war history, right, basically saying video

0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.080
<v Speaker 2>games are already great at teaching kids about war, which

0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:40.559
<v Speaker 2>they're not.

0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:42.320
<v Speaker 4>I don't think people learn a.

0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.880
<v Speaker 2>Lot you're at war history from goll of Duty or

0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Medal of Honor some stuff.

0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:51.240
<v Speaker 4>Sure well, they certainly learned that their two equal sides

0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:55.880
<v Speaker 4>are Allies and the gervis. It's morally fine to be

0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:00.480
<v Speaker 4>on either, to play either, right now.

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.520
<v Speaker 2>What's interesting to me about this is that Epstein's initial response, like,

0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.679
<v Speaker 2>just played either these video games and you can learn

0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 2>war history. Games are great at teaching kids stuff. That's

0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.240
<v Speaker 2>kind of like the throwaway response you expect from Epstein.

0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:16.040
<v Speaker 2>But what follows is really unique because after that initial line,

0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.120
<v Speaker 2>he writes out like a five paragraph essay laying out

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.760
<v Speaker 2>his thoughts on this subject. And this is not a

0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.360
<v Speaker 2>normal response for Jeffrey. The biggest difference from his normal

0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.480
<v Speaker 2>correspondence is that nearly every word in this essay is

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.640
<v Speaker 2>spelled properly and the grammar is mostly correct. It's very weird,

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.800
<v Speaker 2>Like you see dozens hundreds of emails of him where

0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 2>he's just like spelling like a dipshit. And then you

0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.440
<v Speaker 2>see this like almost a page of writing that's like

0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.880
<v Speaker 2>well formatted and like, I don't know if someone else

0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:44.720
<v Speaker 2>wrote it for him.

0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.280
<v Speaker 4>Right, he like copy pasted from a white paper.

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.439
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he clearly had a document, but it sounds like idiosyncratic,

0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:54.240
<v Speaker 2>like it's in his voice. If he had someone else

0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.520
<v Speaker 2>type it up, I don't know. It's weird. And in

0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:01.080
<v Speaker 2>this essay, Epstein argues that video games quote already great

0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.920
<v Speaker 2>at teaching, and then expresses something almost identical to how

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:08.719
<v Speaker 2>pro AI people argue chatbots are going to revolutionize education fundamentally.

0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.840
<v Speaker 2>The thing that works is a one to one student

0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.920
<v Speaker 2>teacher ratio. Even if you have a shitty teacher or tutor,

0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:15.760
<v Speaker 2>you will learn a lot because that person gets to

0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.720
<v Speaker 2>know you and challenges you at your level. That doesn't scale,

0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.120
<v Speaker 2>but computers do. So we have to use computers to

0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:25.320
<v Speaker 2>replace teachers or at least augment them. Thank you, Jeffrey,

0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.440
<v Speaker 2>thanks for seeding that into society.

0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.400
<v Speaker 5>No, no, it's interesting to see like this is, you know,

0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.600
<v Speaker 5>a deca years later going to be a decade or

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:36.320
<v Speaker 5>so later, going to be what like all the AI

0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 5>bros Are saying about education, And it's interesting to see

0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.080
<v Speaker 5>Jeffrey Land of the same spot in like twenty twelve.

0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:44.040
<v Speaker 2>But also because.

0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.400
<v Speaker 4>That's largely just the right wing thing is like who cares?

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Got to get rid of teachers?

0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, get rid of teachers. Give your people the dumbest,

0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.640
<v Speaker 4>most uninformative thing. It's fright.

0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.040
<v Speaker 2>And he's not talking about this, but you have to

0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.520
<v Speaker 2>think again, Epstein's angry. He's been judged by you know,

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.480
<v Speaker 2>what he believes is a prudish society for something that

0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:07.600
<v Speaker 2>he shouldn't be punished for. He's angry, and he probably

0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:11.080
<v Speaker 2>sees to a degree the education system and the things

0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 2>it's taught women as being responsible for his woes. So

0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.080
<v Speaker 2>I suspect there's more than a little. Well we can

0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.280
<v Speaker 2>if we do this, then we have control of the

0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.000
<v Speaker 2>computers that are teaching kids and thus the things that

0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:22.600
<v Speaker 2>they learn.

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.600
<v Speaker 4>Right, But do you think it's that in affair, because

0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:31.360
<v Speaker 4>that's the thing that I do is like, well, yeah,

0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:33.280
<v Speaker 4>but it's or I guess what I mean is like

0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 4>that not nefarious, but not because they're so dumb and

0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.560
<v Speaker 4>not details oriented otherwise that I like have trouble squaring

0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.320
<v Speaker 4>like this grand vision and actually pulling it off. I

0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:46.280
<v Speaker 4>guess yeah.

0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.280
<v Speaker 2>It's less of a grand because you know, Epstein isn't

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.000
<v Speaker 2>the guy making this stuff. He's just kind of talking

0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.560
<v Speaker 2>to people who will be owning the companies that own

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:56.280
<v Speaker 2>it about what he how he wants to see it

0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:00.840
<v Speaker 2>used right, right, And I don't think Epstein's not engaged

0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.160
<v Speaker 2>in a cohesive plot with a bunch of other rich

0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.920
<v Speaker 2>guys to destroy education. I think he just sees this

0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.200
<v Speaker 2>as beneficial and a better way to do society right.

0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 2>And I think part of why he sees it is that,

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:16.320
<v Speaker 2>like he doesn't like or respect a lot of people

0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.840
<v Speaker 2>in this yeah, who are doing this job, right.

0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 4>And you know what, and I guess like the vision

0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.440
<v Speaker 4>versus the execution is what, right, That's what ice is.

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.480
<v Speaker 4>Ice is the vision and the execution of that vision,

0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:27.640
<v Speaker 4>which is Gooddy.

0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:29.960
<v Speaker 2>And he's he's just kind of got and he's talking

0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:31.920
<v Speaker 2>with his other rich friend because he's he's and he's

0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.520
<v Speaker 2>an idea guy. Right, That's Epstein's whole brand. So he

0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.600
<v Speaker 2>goes on in this essay to say that the real

0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.640
<v Speaker 2>issue is that today's with educational games is that today's

0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 2>video games just don't try to teach stuff we care about.

0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 2>And it's unclear who we is. I think he's referring

0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.280
<v Speaker 2>to we as in like people like you and me, Bobby,

0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.280
<v Speaker 2>like smart, rich guys care about quote. Right. The best

0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.440
<v Speaker 2>scheme I've come up with so far is to use

0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.800
<v Speaker 2>the X Prize or something like it to co opt

0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 2>the existing video game industry. You want to skip convincing

0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.040
<v Speaker 2>educators and parents about this stuff and just go straight

0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:10.480
<v Speaker 2>for the kids. Ew I mean I can get him

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:11.640
<v Speaker 2>to be fair.

0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.359
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, not not that this is a good use, but

0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.760
<v Speaker 4>the probably one of the least sinister uses of go

0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.000
<v Speaker 4>straight for the kids. Jeffrey Epstein has ever.

0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, this is yeah, right, like grading on a curve

0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.440
<v Speaker 2>that continue because as soon as he says, you want

0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:30.680
<v Speaker 2>to skip convincing parents and teach it, just go straight

0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.000
<v Speaker 2>for the kids by making a game that gets them addicted.

0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.399
<v Speaker 2>Then Epstein provides his own suggestion for like what an

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.720
<v Speaker 2>educational game might look like, and he he suggests a

0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.480
<v Speaker 2>game that would teach a player how to read and

0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:47.040
<v Speaker 2>pronounce Japanese kanji. Quote. Imagine you are looking at a

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.400
<v Speaker 2>door in a video game. It has some squiggly symbols

0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.560
<v Speaker 2>printed on it. Little munchkins walk up to that door

0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.480
<v Speaker 2>and say conichiwa. The door opens, and they are greeted

0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.000
<v Speaker 2>by a hot princess with big tits and a thong.

0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 2>The door closes in your face. You are going to

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:01.760
<v Speaker 2>fucking learned to read and pronounce kanji.

0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:08.280
<v Speaker 4>That's why I'm like, they're so dumb. I just can't

0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.160
<v Speaker 4>believe we're ruled by these boks.

0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.320
<v Speaker 2>There's the there's the the line between. I'm not saying

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.200
<v Speaker 2>Jeffrey Epstein controlled all of this as the puppet master,

0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.639
<v Speaker 2>but he had a lot of ideas that he helped

0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 2>to seed in powerful people who then took those ideas further.

0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.840
<v Speaker 2>And also the way he thinks about all This shows

0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.440
<v Speaker 2>you how the ruling class thought about and thinks about

0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.320
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff and was talking about it, and he

0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.640
<v Speaker 2>influenced that, right. I mean to me, it's just.

0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.760
<v Speaker 4>Like all these unfuckable dweves finally like forced their way

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.320
<v Speaker 4>into some sex through violence and coercion. Yeah, now they're

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:40.320
<v Speaker 4>money pressed the man.

0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well and the fucking the whole you see, just

0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:47.560
<v Speaker 2>like the the fact that women don't really matter to

0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:49.720
<v Speaker 2>him is made very evident, just in the fact that

0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.520
<v Speaker 2>he's like, yeah, hot princess, big tits in a thong,

0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 2>that'll teach him how to read kanji, and yeah, the

0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:59.800
<v Speaker 2>little girls kind of being enticed. I have issues believing

0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:02.160
<v Speaker 2>this would work on boys, But like, are they gonna

0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:06.040
<v Speaker 2>want the big titted, hot princess Jeffrey in this game

0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:12.400
<v Speaker 2>for schools that you want to put in school. Epstein

0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:17.000
<v Speaker 2>then concludes edutainment is for pussies because once kids catch

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.639
<v Speaker 2>on you are trying to teach them something, they shut down.

0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.320
<v Speaker 2>We have to keep the boobs and guns in profit.

0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:24.840
<v Speaker 2>You see how much money video games are making these days.

0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Fuck educational reform, we need educational subversion. And what he's

0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.080
<v Speaker 2>saying here is that like this stuff. You don't want

0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:33.840
<v Speaker 2>to make educate. You want to make games that get

0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:37.119
<v Speaker 2>kids addicted and you teach them and push messages through

0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.719
<v Speaker 2>the games that they're playing while also profiting off of them.

0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:42.879
<v Speaker 2>And the way to do that is make games that

0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:47.320
<v Speaker 2>they are addicted to playing. They are compulsively like attractive

0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:51.080
<v Speaker 2>to them. Right, your goal is to subvert the educational system.

0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.480
<v Speaker 2>You're almost saying, we want these games to teach kids

0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.080
<v Speaker 2>a separate set of things that they're learning in school

0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:57.920
<v Speaker 2>and society.

0:19:58.320 --> 0:19:58.520
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.680
<v Speaker 2>You want to think about, like how gaming culture has

0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.400
<v Speaker 2>been used by guys like Bannon who are attached to Epstein.

0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:09.320
<v Speaker 2>You can see some really direct through lines here, right. Yeah, Now,

0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:13.040
<v Speaker 2>after Epstein goes on this very weird rant, Bobby Kotik

0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.639
<v Speaker 2>doesn't respond, are you fucking crazy? And Steady responds, X

0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.560
<v Speaker 2>prize is a good idea, but key is real world rewards,

0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.960
<v Speaker 2>learn to read, earn cell phone minutes, iPhone credits, virtual

0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:27.040
<v Speaker 2>items and games. Eh, that's a funny email in its

0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:30.520
<v Speaker 2>own right. Future ist Pablos Holman, who's looped into Epstein,

0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:35.359
<v Speaker 2>loops Poblos into this conversation, and Pablos responds with just

0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.240
<v Speaker 2>a dig at Bobby Kotek, saying I'm all for indoctrinating

0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.920
<v Speaker 2>kids into an economy you gotta love who His example

0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:45.000
<v Speaker 2>for real world rewards is virtual items and games, which is,

0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Pablos, you're a You're tied to Jeffrey Epstein

0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:49.960
<v Speaker 2>forever and now. So that's shameful, but that is a

0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:50.720
<v Speaker 2>pretty good dig.

0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:57.680
<v Speaker 4>I mean, like every time you don't respond only with

0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:00.920
<v Speaker 4>what the fuck are you guys talking about? With shit?

0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:05.080
<v Speaker 2>Dipshit. Yeah, and Holman is obviously correct that Kotik is

0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.160
<v Speaker 2>a visionless slug of a man who ruined at least

0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:10.080
<v Speaker 2>one great company. These amails were sent just a few

0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.920
<v Speaker 2>weeks after the launch of Call of Duty Black Ops two,

0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.080
<v Speaker 2>the first Call of Duty game to feature micro transactions.

0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Per an article in The Gamer by James Lucas, Call

0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.240
<v Speaker 2>of Duty Ghosts, which launched later that year, went even

0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.879
<v Speaker 2>further with paid special characters, voiceover packs, skins, camo, and

0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:28.479
<v Speaker 2>even weapons. It's not hard to draw line between these

0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.440
<v Speaker 2>conversations with Epstein and industry figures and the sudden boom

0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:34.199
<v Speaker 2>and micro transactions that occurred around the same time period,

0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.359
<v Speaker 2>but what's most concerning is the apparent interest to normalize

0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:41.840
<v Speaker 2>aggressive monetization strategies towards younger audiences, as suggested in remarks

0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:46.240
<v Speaker 2>made by Epstein's associates and the DOJ documents. And Epstein again,

0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't invent the idea of micro transactions in children's games.

0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Bobby's thinking about this before Epstein starts talking about it,

0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:55.159
<v Speaker 2>but Epstein is influencing his thoughts on it. And Epstein

0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.680
<v Speaker 2>is talking a lot about how we need to normalize

0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:02.360
<v Speaker 2>using games to deliver propaganda to kids by addicting them.

0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Right that, like the fact that the game is addictive

0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:08.119
<v Speaker 2>and has the guns and the tits and you know,

0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.080
<v Speaker 2>makes money is part of like what keeps the kid

0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.119
<v Speaker 2>paying attention, what allows you to influence them with the

0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.800
<v Speaker 2>content and the game. And this is a big part

0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:20.919
<v Speaker 2>of the modern micro transaction industry. Right, Like what we

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.920
<v Speaker 2>ultimately landed on is fuck teaching kids anything. Just get

0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:27.360
<v Speaker 2>them hooked, like get them get them playing games where

0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.159
<v Speaker 2>they're going to be sending money regularly and gambling for

0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:31.320
<v Speaker 2>stuff like loot boxes.

0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:34.440
<v Speaker 4>Right. And it's it's also like that most of these

0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:38.719
<v Speaker 4>are built on whales, Like it doesn't broadly the kids.

0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:42.679
<v Speaker 4>It's like the unfortunate I don't know what is it

0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:45.040
<v Speaker 4>like four or five percent somewhere in there who are

0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:47.680
<v Speaker 4>like paying for everything else and more.

0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:50.360
<v Speaker 2>No, but it is I mean the fact that these

0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:52.399
<v Speaker 2>are present in the games. Even though most of the

0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.360
<v Speaker 2>money isn't coming from randomly, it still affects them right.

0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Researchers from the Australian Consumer Policy Research Center the CPRC

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:03.520
<v Speaker 2>and Monash University in twenty sixteen identified twenty dark patterns

0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:06.600
<v Speaker 2>of monetization in modern games, the worst of which were

0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:09.359
<v Speaker 2>gambling like features such as paid loot boxes like the

0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.480
<v Speaker 2>ones Bobby Kotik helped push at Activision Blizzard. Per an

0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:16.280
<v Speaker 2>investigation by ABC Australia, quote, the design features were not

0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:18.680
<v Speaker 2>in all games, but ninety five percent of adult players

0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:21.159
<v Speaker 2>surveyed had come across them at eighty three percent had

0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:26.800
<v Speaker 2>suffered negative consequences. So this is a harmful industry and

0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:30.720
<v Speaker 2>it's one that you know Jeffrey is a cheerleader for. Again,

0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:33.200
<v Speaker 2>he's not the founder of it, but he's one of

0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.240
<v Speaker 2>the He's one of the dominoes here. Today, the global

0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:38.840
<v Speaker 2>online micro transaction market is more than worth more than

0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:41.760
<v Speaker 2>seventy five billion dollars a year, As Epstein said, we

0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:43.880
<v Speaker 2>have to keep the boobs and guns in profit.

0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:44.320
<v Speaker 5>Right.

0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:47.520
<v Speaker 2>An article into BBC by Catherine Latham makes the end

0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.800
<v Speaker 2>result of all this very clear. Gaming companies use behavioral

0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:54.560
<v Speaker 2>psychology to manipulate users into spending, says professor Sarah Mills,

0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:57.879
<v Speaker 2>and the link between gaming and gambling is becoming increasingly blurred,

0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:00.520
<v Speaker 2>she explains. Ms Mills is a profess sort of human

0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:04.280
<v Speaker 2>geography at Loughborough University, where research found gambling techniques make

0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:06.760
<v Speaker 2>gamers play for longer and spend more money and drive

0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:09.720
<v Speaker 2>repeat buying. And we could go on from here to

0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:12.840
<v Speaker 2>discuss the outrageous proliferation of gambling apps for young people

0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:15.439
<v Speaker 2>and how companies like Activision Blizzard paved the way for

0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:16.520
<v Speaker 2>shit like Caushi.

0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:16.880
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:21.119
<v Speaker 2>And Epstein is a piece of that story. Right, But

0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:23.679
<v Speaker 2>that's also getting us all away from the Epstein of it,

0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:27.120
<v Speaker 2>because this is stuff that's largely occurred since the end

0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:27.840
<v Speaker 2>of his life.

0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:28.840
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:31.159
<v Speaker 2>I think we've done enough to establish how harmful this

0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:33.960
<v Speaker 2>trend is, and that Jeffrey was a prominent voice urging

0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:36.320
<v Speaker 2>developers to go down this road and urging developers at

0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:38.280
<v Speaker 2>a high level talking to the C suites.

0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:38.600
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:42.120
<v Speaker 2>I should also note that Epstein and Kote's friendship went

0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:45.400
<v Speaker 2>deeper than just work related conversations. These aren't just guys

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.960
<v Speaker 2>who are talking shop. Per Kotaku article by Ethan Gatsch,

0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:52.919
<v Speaker 2>Emails between the two were allegedly exchanged multiple times in

0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:56.120
<v Speaker 2>twenty thirteen, as well. A February twenty fourth, twenty thirteen

0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:59.280
<v Speaker 2>emails stated that Epstein was in La planning a visit

0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:01.439
<v Speaker 2>to SpaceX that week and was trying to link up

0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 2>with Kotik while in town. Thanks but rather see you,

0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Epstein wrote in one email taking girls after to bell Air.

0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:10.600
<v Speaker 2>Ko Tik at one point allegedly wrote back, come with

0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:13.240
<v Speaker 2>your friends to buy house Beverly Hills ten minutes from

0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:13.720
<v Speaker 2>bel Air.

0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:18.240
<v Speaker 4>Great. Also, that's an insane thing to put in an email.

0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Down it's crazy. Got to hang out with Elon Musket

0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:27.200
<v Speaker 2>SpaceX before taking my girls to the CEO of Activision

0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Blizzard's house.

0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:32.120
<v Speaker 4>And again notably invited.

0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:34.159
<v Speaker 2>Right Elon's Oh, I mean you don't want him at

0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:36.520
<v Speaker 2>at the good parties? You know you don't want You

0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:38.439
<v Speaker 2>don't want him and Bobby Kotik in a room at

0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:42.520
<v Speaker 2>the same time. That's just too much cool. You know

0:25:42.560 --> 0:25:43.520
<v Speaker 2>who else is cool?

0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:44.919
<v Speaker 5>Me?

0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Some would say, sure, of course, Sophie, Yes, Andrew T Sure,

0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:53.399
<v Speaker 2>Andrew T. Okay, you know, and also the sponsors of

0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:54.719
<v Speaker 2>this podcast.

0:25:54.880 --> 0:26:02.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Evans, Robert.

0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:11.600
<v Speaker 2>And we're back. You know, we're talking Jepstein, Jeffrey Epstein.

0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:15.560
<v Speaker 2>So Epstein's friendship with Brock Pierce continued along a similar

0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:18.159
<v Speaker 2>tenor to his friendship with Bobby Kotick. In May of

0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:20.720
<v Speaker 2>that year, Pierce told Epstein that he had plans to

0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:23.679
<v Speaker 2>purchase what was at the time the largest bitcoin exchange

0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:28.080
<v Speaker 2>on Earth, Mount Gox. Now this is a side story

0:26:28.080 --> 0:26:31.040
<v Speaker 2>from a larger, much funnier story, because mount gox was

0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:33.399
<v Speaker 2>for years the place to go if you were new

0:26:33.720 --> 0:26:36.159
<v Speaker 2>to crypto and looking to get into it. Right, if

0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:38.960
<v Speaker 2>you wanted to get started with bitcoin or whatever, mount

0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:41.800
<v Speaker 2>gox is probably where you were starting. And mount gox

0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:44.320
<v Speaker 2>got its name from its original purpose, which was it

0:26:44.359 --> 0:26:47.840
<v Speaker 2>was a place to sell and trade magic the gathering cards.

0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:51.960
<v Speaker 2>Mount gox stands for Magic the Gathering online exchange. Right,

0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:55.640
<v Speaker 2>they started going by mount gox when the slightly more

0:26:55.680 --> 0:26:59.320
<v Speaker 2>sensible libertarian crypto enthusiasts pointed out that like, hey, regular

0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:02.480
<v Speaker 2>people don't want to or their life savings at a

0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:06.280
<v Speaker 2>business run by people who sell magic cards for a living. Right, Like,

0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:10.440
<v Speaker 2>that's not really like a bank. It doesn't give a bank.

0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:13.199
<v Speaker 4>I could have been called the chaos Orb. So I

0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:15.120
<v Speaker 4>guess it could have been called.

0:27:14.880 --> 0:27:17.520
<v Speaker 2>The chaos Orb. Yeah, I mean we're further along on

0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:21.040
<v Speaker 2>our decline now. Per an article on the website protest

0:27:21.080 --> 0:27:25.280
<v Speaker 2>dot com by caspanc quote Epstein, who was unfamiliar with

0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:27.359
<v Speaker 2>the exchange, asked if it had been seized by the

0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:30.600
<v Speaker 2>US government. It hadn't. The purchase had never occurred, and

0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:32.880
<v Speaker 2>in April of twenty fourteen, it was revealed that mount

0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:35.760
<v Speaker 2>gox had lost the majority of its users' money. All

0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:38.119
<v Speaker 2>of the money in mount Gox gets stolen, right, the

0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:41.640
<v Speaker 2>whole bank gets stolen because again the magic the gathering

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:44.160
<v Speaker 2>online exchange is a bad place to keep your savings.

0:27:45.480 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's fine though not regulated. No FDI not at

0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:49.680
<v Speaker 4>all regulated.

0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Baby, we don't need an FDN. See, we don't need that.

0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:56.359
<v Speaker 2>That's big government. Well we'll talk about why that's fundy.

0:27:56.400 --> 0:27:59.119
<v Speaker 2>But what's really what's funny immediately here is that even

0:27:59.160 --> 0:28:01.760
<v Speaker 2>after the whole bank bank gets stolen, Pierce doesn't give

0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:05.199
<v Speaker 2>up acquiring mount Gox. He tries after it collapses to

0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:07.879
<v Speaker 2>buy it, and he starts his initiative called Gox Rising,

0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:11.159
<v Speaker 2>which like, why are you tied to the magic the

0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:15.479
<v Speaker 2>gathering bank, that god that lost everything? Like why are

0:28:15.520 --> 0:28:18.600
<v Speaker 2>you invested in continuing that journey?

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:18.960
<v Speaker 4>Brock?

0:28:20.280 --> 0:28:23.360
<v Speaker 2>Is it just the name Mount Gox is so appealing

0:28:23.400 --> 0:28:24.520
<v Speaker 2>to you? I don't get it.

0:28:24.840 --> 0:28:27.080
<v Speaker 4>I mean, look, brand recognition, you know, the.

0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Brand recognition is that place that lost everyone's money?

0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:36.000
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, but not anymore. Yeah, we couldn't possibly lose

0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:36.520
<v Speaker 4>it twice.

0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:39.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it happened twice. That's crazy, So you should The

0:28:39.800 --> 0:28:41.720
<v Speaker 2>fact that Pierce still thinks this is a good idea

0:28:41.760 --> 0:28:43.840
<v Speaker 2>should tell you something about Pierce, And the fact that

0:28:43.880 --> 0:28:47.360
<v Speaker 2>Epstein continues to treat this kid as genius should let

0:28:47.400 --> 0:28:50.440
<v Speaker 2>you know that Jeffrey Epstein was not nearly as intelligent

0:28:50.520 --> 0:28:54.280
<v Speaker 2>as he gets credited with being. Sometimes the same month

0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:57.760
<v Speaker 2>Brock started trying to buy Mount Gox, Epstein reaches out

0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:00.280
<v Speaker 2>to his friend Bill Gross, who is the co founder

0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:04.520
<v Speaker 2>of a major investment management company Pimco, about an exciting

0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:06.960
<v Speaker 2>new crypto project that Brock was working on. And this

0:29:07.000 --> 0:29:09.120
<v Speaker 2>is the project that he gets involved with really after

0:29:09.520 --> 0:29:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Mount Gox, and it's called Tether Have you ever heard

0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:15.200
<v Speaker 2>of the cryptocurrency Tether.

0:29:15.280 --> 0:29:19.120
<v Speaker 4>Yes, I think I have some. I don't remember why.

0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:23.560
<v Speaker 2>It's prominent people know about it. And the idea behind tether.

0:29:23.600 --> 0:29:25.600
<v Speaker 2>You brought up the FDIC earlier that like, oh, the

0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:28.080
<v Speaker 2>whole bank got stolen. Maybe that's a good idea that

0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:32.080
<v Speaker 2>the regular financial system ad Tether is Brock. I mean,

0:29:32.120 --> 0:29:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Brock is one of the guys behind tether. Tether is

0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:37.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of the attempt to add sort of an FDIC

0:29:38.040 --> 0:29:40.720
<v Speaker 2>type deal to crypto. It doesn't work the way the

0:29:40.800 --> 0:29:43.160
<v Speaker 2>FDIC does, but the idea is it's a way to

0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:48.160
<v Speaker 2>make cryptocurrency less dangerous and volatile. Right, Tether is what's

0:29:48.560 --> 0:29:50.880
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be a stable coin. That's the idea.

0:29:51.040 --> 0:29:53.120
<v Speaker 4>I say, I think the only reason I have any

0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:57.080
<v Speaker 4>cryptocurrency is to play quasi legal international digital poker.

0:29:58.080 --> 0:30:03.280
<v Speaker 2>Of course, Andrew, So the idea behind Tether is that

0:30:03.320 --> 0:30:06.040
<v Speaker 2>it's what's called a stable coin. Normal crypto is way

0:30:06.080 --> 0:30:08.280
<v Speaker 2>too volatile to be a good store of value, right,

0:30:08.320 --> 0:30:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Like you don't want to store your savings something could

0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:12.560
<v Speaker 2>be worth zero tomorrow.

0:30:12.640 --> 0:30:12.840
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:30:14.040 --> 0:30:17.720
<v Speaker 2>Tether was ostensibly pegged to the US dollar, and so

0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:20.760
<v Speaker 2>basically the idea is that like it's backed up by

0:30:20.880 --> 0:30:24.760
<v Speaker 2>real money, right, so we can't it can't become worth nothing,

0:30:25.240 --> 0:30:27.960
<v Speaker 2>And as a result, tether is today the most successful

0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:31.000
<v Speaker 2>and the largest stable coin. But the fact that what

0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:34.000
<v Speaker 2>it's supposed to be and what it actually is are

0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:37.880
<v Speaker 2>two different things. Because the idea is that tether is

0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:39.960
<v Speaker 2>pegged to the dollar, but that's not even even on

0:30:40.040 --> 0:30:42.000
<v Speaker 2>its face real, because tether is meant to actually be

0:30:42.080 --> 0:30:46.160
<v Speaker 2>fifty percent backed by cash or cash equivalents. Right now.

0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Obviously banks don't have as much cash on hand as

0:30:50.320 --> 0:30:54.280
<v Speaker 2>they have people with money invested in the bank or

0:30:54.320 --> 0:30:56.640
<v Speaker 2>money in the bank, right, and that's why we have

0:30:56.640 --> 0:31:00.680
<v Speaker 2>the FDIC. Right, if your bank goes bust, the FDIC

0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:03.280
<v Speaker 2>will reimburse at least for no, I think it's up

0:31:03.320 --> 0:31:04.760
<v Speaker 2>to a quarter a million dollars in an account or

0:31:04.760 --> 0:31:06.480
<v Speaker 2>something like that, but they'll reimburse your losses.

0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:06.720
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:31:07.240 --> 0:31:10.000
<v Speaker 2>The government is saying, if the bank fucks up, you're

0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:12.680
<v Speaker 2>not screwed as a regular person because there's an FDIC

0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:16.240
<v Speaker 2>backed bank. Tether doesn't really work that way, but they're

0:31:16.320 --> 0:31:18.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of trying to make people think that it works

0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:20.479
<v Speaker 2>that way. Right that like no, no, no, like this

0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:23.640
<v Speaker 2>is bank banks don't have fifty percent of their assets

0:31:23.680 --> 0:31:26.400
<v Speaker 2>backed by cash er equivalents. Right, So Tether's actually more

0:31:26.400 --> 0:31:29.280
<v Speaker 2>realistic than a bank, right. And the reality is there

0:31:29.360 --> 0:31:32.440
<v Speaker 2>have been like pseudo bank runs on Tether, and at

0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:35.200
<v Speaker 2>times people behind Tether have just refused to redeem the

0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:38.520
<v Speaker 2>cash value of their cryptocurrency because that's what they could do,

0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:42.080
<v Speaker 2>that to stop a bank run, right, which is also

0:31:42.120 --> 0:31:44.440
<v Speaker 2>something they get to do because they're not a bank. Right.

0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:47.640
<v Speaker 2>It's you're just throwing money to some fucking freaks who

0:31:47.720 --> 0:31:48.920
<v Speaker 2>are gonna do what they want with it.

0:31:49.160 --> 0:31:52.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, some racists are holding your money. Right.

0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:56.080
<v Speaker 2>Tether would prove though, to be a very wise financial

0:31:56.120 --> 0:31:59.360
<v Speaker 2>bet for Brock. The company is profitable at this moment, right,

0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:01.120
<v Speaker 2>and it's made lot of money over the course of

0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:03.000
<v Speaker 2>its lifetime. I'm sure he did very well on this.

0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:04.200
<v Speaker 4>Now.

0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Brock is not the creator of the idea behind tether.

0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:08.160
<v Speaker 2>That would be a guy named J. R. Willett, but

0:32:08.200 --> 0:32:10.960
<v Speaker 2>he co founds the company and initially calls it real

0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Coin when it launches in July of twenty fourteen. In

0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:17.120
<v Speaker 2>twenty nineteen, tethers surpassed bitcoin and trading volume, and it

0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:19.680
<v Speaker 2>is currently tied to about half of all bitcoin sales,

0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:21.920
<v Speaker 2>even though The Wall Street Journal has reported on Tether

0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:24.360
<v Speaker 2>increasingly showing up in cases of money laundering and the

0:32:24.360 --> 0:32:28.040
<v Speaker 2>financing of terrorist groups. In twenty twenty one, the Commodity

0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:31.280
<v Speaker 2>Futures Trading Commission announced that Tether was not in fact

0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:34.520
<v Speaker 2>fully backed by real currency, which sparked a sell off.

0:32:34.840 --> 0:32:37.880
<v Speaker 2>The CFTC ordered Tether to pay forty one million dollars

0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:41.600
<v Speaker 2>for violations of the Commodity Exchange Act. Now I've left

0:32:41.600 --> 0:32:44.200
<v Speaker 2>into the future, passed the life span of Jeffrey, just

0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:46.920
<v Speaker 2>to make it clear. This was a shady business from

0:32:46.960 --> 0:32:50.200
<v Speaker 2>the beginning, right, This is never a good business.

0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:52.840
<v Speaker 4>Like all this shit, yeah, of course.

0:32:52.720 --> 0:32:57.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, like all of this shit. So Epstein leans

0:32:57.600 --> 0:33:01.360
<v Speaker 2>into this fact right in his email to Gross because

0:33:01.360 --> 0:33:04.480
<v Speaker 2>he's trying to talk a finance guy into getting on

0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:05.280
<v Speaker 2>the crypto board.

0:33:05.320 --> 0:33:05.480
<v Speaker 4>Here.

0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:08.120
<v Speaker 2>Gross is the guy who works at PEMCO who's trying

0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:10.120
<v Speaker 2>to get to invest in the idea that becomes Tether,

0:33:10.680 --> 0:33:14.560
<v Speaker 2>and Epstein acknowledges in this email that there are issues

0:33:14.560 --> 0:33:18.320
<v Speaker 2>with cryptocurrency. The good is that bitcoin uses an algorithm

0:33:18.320 --> 0:33:21.960
<v Speaker 2>to limit supply, unlike the variable of gold or other commodities. However,

0:33:22.000 --> 0:33:25.080
<v Speaker 2>two main issues one the government doesn't like it. Money laundering,

0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:28.120
<v Speaker 2>money transmitting, aiding, and abetting all types of crimes too.

0:33:28.440 --> 0:33:32.280
<v Speaker 2>All transactions are arguably taxable and therefore extra tricky. The

0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Bitcoin guys came to see me early in the process

0:33:35.080 --> 0:33:36.960
<v Speaker 2>and made it clear they were all willing to go

0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:39.880
<v Speaker 2>to jail for their ideas. I'm not there is a

0:33:39.920 --> 0:33:41.920
<v Speaker 2>way to do it, but it turns the bitcoin model

0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:44.320
<v Speaker 2>on its head. Talk to you soon. This is argument

0:33:44.360 --> 0:33:47.240
<v Speaker 2>for tether, right. But what's interesting to me in that

0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:49.920
<v Speaker 2>is him saying the Bitcoin guys came to see me

0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:52.040
<v Speaker 2>early in the process and made it clear they were

0:33:52.080 --> 0:33:53.440
<v Speaker 2>all willing to go to jail with their ideas. We

0:33:53.440 --> 0:33:55.479
<v Speaker 2>know he's in touch with Gavin. We don't know who

0:33:55.560 --> 0:33:58.280
<v Speaker 2>else necessarily, I mean, we will talk later. There's other

0:33:58.320 --> 0:34:01.800
<v Speaker 2>guys that Bitcoin's attached to. But this is some more evidence,

0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:04.400
<v Speaker 2>at least that he wants other people to think he's

0:34:04.440 --> 0:34:07.760
<v Speaker 2>really maybe he's lying about this, right, But also we

0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:09.520
<v Speaker 2>know he was talking to Gavin, we know he's in

0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:11.160
<v Speaker 2>touch with a number of these guys, and we know

0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:15.000
<v Speaker 2>that they're talking ideologically about what this means to each other.

0:34:15.360 --> 0:34:17.799
<v Speaker 2>So I don't really think this is a lie. This

0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:21.680
<v Speaker 2>seems consistent with other things we have evidence of, right,

0:34:22.080 --> 0:34:25.720
<v Speaker 2>and it's further evidence that Jeffrey is an influential person

0:34:26.120 --> 0:34:29.239
<v Speaker 2>in this period of development for bitcoin and cryptocurrency as

0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:34.319
<v Speaker 2>a whole. Right now, obviously we don't. This doesn't mean

0:34:34.360 --> 0:34:38.560
<v Speaker 2>that he was like making big final decisions on bitcoin,

0:34:38.640 --> 0:34:41.360
<v Speaker 2>but it means that he's he's got some influence with

0:34:41.400 --> 0:34:44.080
<v Speaker 2>the people doing it right, and that there's not no

0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:48.320
<v Speaker 2>reason for that. As we'll talk about in twenty fourteen,

0:34:48.520 --> 0:34:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Epstein helps brock Pierce in could deal with Noble Bank

0:34:51.640 --> 0:34:53.960
<v Speaker 2>to create a Puerto Rico based company that would act

0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:57.360
<v Speaker 2>as the real money bank for Tether, right like, this

0:34:57.480 --> 0:34:59.399
<v Speaker 2>is the actual bank that's going to provide the cash

0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:02.400
<v Speaker 2>that's supposed to he backs up this stable point. This

0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:05.480
<v Speaker 2>further establishes Epstein as a foundational figure in the history

0:35:05.480 --> 0:35:08.000
<v Speaker 2>of crypto because Tether, as I noted, is a very

0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:12.080
<v Speaker 2>significant cryptocurrency. And Epstein not only is he advising peers

0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:15.040
<v Speaker 2>and the beginning stages of Tether becoming a thing, but

0:35:15.120 --> 0:35:17.440
<v Speaker 2>he helps make a deal with the bank that acts

0:35:17.480 --> 0:35:22.160
<v Speaker 2>as like the the backing for Tether. He's important in

0:35:22.239 --> 0:35:26.600
<v Speaker 2>this right and this is the particularly the stage of

0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:29.080
<v Speaker 2>crypto development he's a part of. Is not the initial

0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:31.279
<v Speaker 2>stage where you have these guys like he talks about,

0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:33.200
<v Speaker 2>who are willing to go to jail for these weird

0:35:33.239 --> 0:35:36.440
<v Speaker 2>libertarian ideas they have. Right, we don't have to You

0:35:36.440 --> 0:35:38.759
<v Speaker 2>don't have to like or respect what they see to

0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:42.600
<v Speaker 2>be Like, oh, a lot of these people will, right. Yeah,

0:35:42.640 --> 0:35:45.200
<v Speaker 2>they really wanted to weaken the power of the state

0:35:45.239 --> 0:35:49.239
<v Speaker 2>in the Federal Reserve by decoupling currency from the government, right,

0:35:49.280 --> 0:35:51.239
<v Speaker 2>And that's they were willing to go to prison for it.

0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:53.280
<v Speaker 2>There are guys like that in the early history of crypto.

0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:56.600
<v Speaker 2>Epstein comes in and has his influence in the stage

0:35:56.600 --> 0:35:59.960
<v Speaker 2>of crypto in which it starts slowly trying to replicate

0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:03.560
<v Speaker 2>the features of the real financial system in order to

0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:06.839
<v Speaker 2>achieve widespread adoption. Right, Tether is a piece of this.

0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:09.600
<v Speaker 2>It's an acknowledgement that like, this is way too volatile,

0:36:09.840 --> 0:36:12.160
<v Speaker 2>too many people are losing money. We need something that

0:36:12.400 --> 0:36:15.839
<v Speaker 2>we can at least market as a safe cryptocurrency that's

0:36:15.880 --> 0:36:16.800
<v Speaker 2>backed up by cash.

0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:17.080
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:36:17.440 --> 0:36:20.240
<v Speaker 2>So that's what Epstein's involvement in cryptos during the period

0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:22.879
<v Speaker 2>in which it's starting to take on, it's at least

0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:26.760
<v Speaker 2>starting to dress up in the drag of a real financial.

0:36:26.320 --> 0:36:32.560
<v Speaker 4>System trappings of actual money, right, exactly, exactly, digital lottery

0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:33.799
<v Speaker 4>ticket right.

0:36:33.600 --> 0:36:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Right, as opposed to the thing my friends used to

0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:38.839
<v Speaker 2>buy drugs in two thousand and nine with Eagle right.

0:36:39.640 --> 0:36:41.719
<v Speaker 2>And again, part of the point the idea behind tether

0:36:41.840 --> 0:36:43.840
<v Speaker 2>is we want to make rich people feel comfortable to

0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:48.239
<v Speaker 2>put their money into crypto, right, so other crypto millionaires

0:36:48.239 --> 0:36:50.319
<v Speaker 2>can cash out using the real money they put in.

0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:53.200
<v Speaker 2>So brock piercingly like, that's that's why you want the

0:36:53.280 --> 0:36:56.120
<v Speaker 2>real money, right, That's why Teather's valuable.

0:36:55.840 --> 0:36:59.120
<v Speaker 4>Pyramid scheme, the puremid needs to be at the base.

0:36:59.640 --> 0:37:03.360
<v Speaker 2>This is safe. Put your money in, then we cash

0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:05.480
<v Speaker 2>out our holdings to get real money.

0:37:05.920 --> 0:37:06.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:37:06.840 --> 0:37:10.360
<v Speaker 2>In twenty fourteen, Epstein put three million dollars of his

0:37:10.440 --> 0:37:14.560
<v Speaker 2>own money into an investment in a new bitcoin trading exchange, Coinbase,

0:37:14.840 --> 0:37:19.920
<v Speaker 2>founded by the Stevens brothers. Bradford Bart Caspiance writes, perhaps

0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:23.080
<v Speaker 2>most embarrassing about the Epstein Coinbase investment is that they

0:37:23.160 --> 0:37:25.880
<v Speaker 2>knew who had put the money in there to purchase shares.

0:37:26.239 --> 0:37:28.640
<v Speaker 2>As Pierce rushed to get the deal closed, he shared

0:37:28.680 --> 0:37:31.960
<v Speaker 2>one awkward, hurried email with Epstein. I need permission to

0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:33.719
<v Speaker 2>let the founder know who you are.

0:37:34.360 --> 0:37:34.600
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:37:35.120 --> 0:37:38.759
<v Speaker 2>So Epstein is putting this money into fund Coinbase, which

0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:42.759
<v Speaker 2>is like Pierce is helping to broker this deal to

0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:46.560
<v Speaker 2>provide the basic funding to get Coinbase off the ground.

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:50.680
<v Speaker 2>And Pierces as he's communicating with the people he's working

0:37:50.680 --> 0:37:55.200
<v Speaker 2>with a Coinbase realizes Epstein is a convicted sex criminal.

0:37:55.560 --> 0:37:57.239
<v Speaker 2>And if I get these people to invest in a

0:37:57.239 --> 0:37:59.640
<v Speaker 2>company that he's a major investor in and I don't

0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:02.160
<v Speaker 2>let them know, that could be fraud.

0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:02.719
<v Speaker 5>Right.

0:38:03.040 --> 0:38:04.680
<v Speaker 2>You can't convince them to partner with you in a

0:38:04.680 --> 0:38:06.919
<v Speaker 2>major venture and not let them know that one of

0:38:06.960 --> 0:38:09.719
<v Speaker 2>the people funding the company is a convicted pedophile. It's

0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:14.080
<v Speaker 2>kind of important, right, And Epstein gives his permission, So

0:38:14.120 --> 0:38:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Brock lets the Coinbase people know that Jeffrey Epstein, who

0:38:18.040 --> 0:38:21.440
<v Speaker 2>by this point it's been years since his conviction for

0:38:21.560 --> 0:38:24.719
<v Speaker 2>child sex trafficking, is one of the funders. And the

0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:27.160
<v Speaker 2>Coinbase people are like, yeah, that's fine with us, right,

0:38:29.280 --> 0:38:33.279
<v Speaker 2>cool stuff. And Coinbase is the new mount Gox, that's

0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:35.520
<v Speaker 2>the big exchange people get into now when they're starting

0:38:35.719 --> 0:38:39.320
<v Speaker 2>in crypto, right, yeah, yeah, yeah stuff.

0:38:39.360 --> 0:38:42.919
<v Speaker 4>There do they still have Super Bowl ads? I guess

0:38:42.920 --> 0:38:44.160
<v Speaker 4>we'll find out.

0:38:43.840 --> 0:38:46.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't think they're doing Super Bowl that ads anymore,

0:38:46.840 --> 0:38:51.240
<v Speaker 2>but they're still around something. Yeah yeah, that Matt Damon

0:38:51.320 --> 0:38:54.160
<v Speaker 2>run money ran out though. But you know who does

0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:58.160
<v Speaker 2>have the money to hire Matt Damon. Not the sponsors

0:38:58.160 --> 0:39:01.800
<v Speaker 2>of this show. Maybe us. If you buy enough of

0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:04.400
<v Speaker 2>the products that advertise on our show, Sophie and I

0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:06.799
<v Speaker 2>might get the money to bring Matt Damon onto the show.

0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:08.920
<v Speaker 2>And I know that's what all of our listeners have

0:39:08.960 --> 0:39:11.879
<v Speaker 2>been clamoring for all you dame heads out there.

0:39:12.400 --> 0:39:13.799
<v Speaker 4>Oh I'm really mad.

0:39:14.120 --> 0:39:16.440
<v Speaker 1>I really just want to take this as an excuse

0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:18.960
<v Speaker 1>to talking about ben Affleck back tattoo again.

0:39:20.160 --> 0:39:22.360
<v Speaker 2>I'll always talk about ben afflex back tattoo.

0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:23.800
<v Speaker 1>I know it's great.

0:39:24.080 --> 0:39:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Let's all think about that while these ads run. We're

0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:37.120
<v Speaker 2>back and woay, I sure love ben afflex back tattoo

0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:37.760
<v Speaker 2>of Phoenix.

0:39:38.560 --> 0:39:43.920
<v Speaker 1>Ben af Back well done. Yeah yeah, that was relaxing

0:39:43.920 --> 0:39:44.880
<v Speaker 1>for me, to be honest.

0:39:45.360 --> 0:39:47.120
<v Speaker 2>In June of two thousand and four, This part's not

0:39:47.160 --> 0:39:49.840
<v Speaker 2>going to be relaxing, Sophie, because in June of twenty fourteen,

0:39:50.400 --> 0:39:54.320
<v Speaker 2>Jeffrey Epstein asked Brock Pierce if he knew the Winklevoss twins.

0:39:57.560 --> 0:40:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Of course, those weird looking fuckers show up this I

0:40:00.680 --> 0:40:04.879
<v Speaker 2>know now, the winkle Vi, if you're not familiar, were

0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:08.680
<v Speaker 2>the guys who allegedly Mark Zuckerberg maybe stole the Facebook

0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:13.680
<v Speaker 2>idea from and then they get hardcore into crypto after

0:40:14.239 --> 0:40:18.000
<v Speaker 2>suing Mark Zuckerberg, I think several times. So they get

0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:21.399
<v Speaker 2>really into crypto, and like every celebrity who gets really

0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:25.320
<v Speaker 2>into crypto, they're totally not a scam crypto product eventually

0:40:25.360 --> 0:40:29.640
<v Speaker 2>gets sued by the SEC right now. Thankfully, the winkle

0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:32.800
<v Speaker 2>v were intelligent enough to donate heavily to Donald Trump's

0:40:32.840 --> 0:40:36.440
<v Speaker 2>reelection campaign, and per tech Crunch, quote also backed his

0:40:36.520 --> 0:40:40.480
<v Speaker 2>family's business ventures, which means his family's crypto grifts. So

0:40:40.640 --> 0:40:43.160
<v Speaker 2>on January twenty fourth, twenty twenty six, just a few

0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:45.600
<v Speaker 2>days before I started work on these episodes, the SEC

0:40:45.800 --> 0:40:48.880
<v Speaker 2>dropped their lawsuit against Gemini, the crypto exchange founded by

0:40:48.880 --> 0:40:49.920
<v Speaker 2>the Winklevoss twins.

0:40:50.200 --> 0:40:51.600
<v Speaker 4>Right cool, So I love that.

0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So Pierce replies that he does know the Winklevoss twins,

0:40:55.840 --> 0:40:58.600
<v Speaker 2>because of course he does, and Epstein says, okay, I'm

0:40:58.600 --> 0:41:01.880
<v Speaker 2>gonna send Setlana to them to get a download of

0:41:01.920 --> 0:41:04.640
<v Speaker 2>the company that they're planning to launch. Right to get

0:41:04.640 --> 0:41:08.560
<v Speaker 2>a look at the business they're starting, Anna great, great question.

0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:13.759
<v Speaker 2>Sophie as Piance notes this was likely Svetlana Positiva, who

0:41:13.800 --> 0:41:16.000
<v Speaker 2>is a Russian citizen who was the daughter of a

0:41:16.040 --> 0:41:19.080
<v Speaker 2>former colonel in the Red Army. Her family lives in

0:41:19.120 --> 0:41:23.080
<v Speaker 2>an apartment building initially constructed for NKVD staffers, and per

0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:26.640
<v Speaker 2>the News England Herald, attended a Moscow university, once described

0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:30.160
<v Speaker 2>as an incubator for the KGB. She joined a modeling

0:41:30.200 --> 0:41:33.360
<v Speaker 2>agency as a young woman, one run by John Luke Brunell,

0:41:33.520 --> 0:41:36.320
<v Speaker 2>who has been alleged to have recruited girls and women

0:41:36.400 --> 0:41:37.080
<v Speaker 2>for Epstein.

0:41:37.360 --> 0:41:37.480
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:41:37.520 --> 0:41:39.759
<v Speaker 2>Brunell is one of the people who is funneling young

0:41:39.840 --> 0:41:43.799
<v Speaker 2>models towards Jeffrey Epstein. Svetlana claims that she was just

0:41:43.840 --> 0:41:46.440
<v Speaker 2>a model interested in charitable endeavors and Epstein had a

0:41:46.480 --> 0:41:48.920
<v Speaker 2>lot of connections in that world and so they became friends.

0:41:49.360 --> 0:41:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Since Fetlana is alleged to have spent a lot of

0:41:51.480 --> 0:41:54.319
<v Speaker 2>time with Prince Andrew, which he denies, and Epstein clearly

0:41:54.360 --> 0:41:57.360
<v Speaker 2>connected her to other influential people, a lot of people

0:41:57.400 --> 0:42:00.239
<v Speaker 2>suspect that she was a Russian agent working as a

0:42:00.239 --> 0:42:03.759
<v Speaker 2>part of that government's influence operation to utilize Epstein as

0:42:03.760 --> 0:42:06.279
<v Speaker 2>a clandestine source. And this may have been true. There

0:42:06.280 --> 0:42:10.719
<v Speaker 2>are a number of connections to Epstein and Russian intelligence. Yeah,

0:42:11.320 --> 0:42:13.920
<v Speaker 2>and this this episode isn't primarily about that stuff, but

0:42:13.960 --> 0:42:15.839
<v Speaker 2>this may be one more example of it. We really

0:42:15.840 --> 0:42:19.719
<v Speaker 2>don't know, Like like I don't know, Maybeana was but

0:42:19.800 --> 0:42:22.399
<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe yeah. Yeah.

0:42:22.440 --> 0:42:25.520
<v Speaker 4>But also it is like kind of increasingly clear that

0:42:25.680 --> 0:42:29.640
<v Speaker 4>like no matter what like a foreign government might want

0:42:29.680 --> 0:42:32.879
<v Speaker 4>to do to us, it's pretty clear like our most

0:42:32.920 --> 0:42:36.000
<v Speaker 4>powerful citizens were willing to do it anyway. So it's

0:42:36.080 --> 0:42:39.840
<v Speaker 4>sort of just like like do you think alleged Wendy

0:42:39.920 --> 0:42:42.160
<v Speaker 4>Dang's behavior. She wakes up and he's like, they already

0:42:42.160 --> 0:42:45.200
<v Speaker 4>did everything I was ordered to make them do well.

0:42:45.200 --> 0:42:46.920
<v Speaker 2>And that's the part of the thing is that like this,

0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:51.080
<v Speaker 2>the most effective shit that the Russian government did using

0:42:51.120 --> 0:42:54.360
<v Speaker 2>its influence operations worked because of how fucked up the

0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:58.760
<v Speaker 2>US is. Right, they were they were like in pushing

0:42:58.880 --> 0:43:01.560
<v Speaker 2>and kind of like fanning the flames of like vaccine

0:43:01.560 --> 0:43:04.319
<v Speaker 2>denial and COVID denial and all this stuff. They were

0:43:04.520 --> 0:43:08.400
<v Speaker 2>just standing on the shoulders of American giants who started

0:43:08.440 --> 0:43:12.080
<v Speaker 2>that process here, right, No, you could usually see.

0:43:11.840 --> 0:43:15.239
<v Speaker 4>All of everyone at the whatever the the what is

0:43:15.360 --> 0:43:18.360
<v Speaker 4>whatever the KGB is now is just like it's this

0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:21.680
<v Speaker 4>is easy mode. This is destabilization on cheat codes because

0:43:21.680 --> 0:43:24.680
<v Speaker 4>they simply do it time and.

0:43:24.600 --> 0:43:27.040
<v Speaker 2>You just find the levers like Epstein who have the

0:43:27.080 --> 0:43:31.319
<v Speaker 2>connections you can push people in and you know, yeah, yeah,

0:43:31.360 --> 0:43:34.719
<v Speaker 2>good stuff. Now. Another fun thing that's happening at the

0:43:34.719 --> 0:43:37.600
<v Speaker 2>time is that Brock's friends are being sued over the

0:43:37.640 --> 0:43:39.880
<v Speaker 2>massive number of sexual assaults that are alleged to have

0:43:39.920 --> 0:43:44.200
<v Speaker 2>occurred during the parties that they threw. Right, So during

0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:46.799
<v Speaker 2>this period of time, this is like twenty fourteen or so,

0:43:47.080 --> 0:43:50.080
<v Speaker 2>Brock emails Epstein asking if he knows a lawyer named

0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:53.200
<v Speaker 2>Jeff Herman, quote, he is suing four of my friends.

0:43:53.280 --> 0:43:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Any dirt you have could prove helpful. Epstein described Herman as.

0:43:58.800 --> 0:44:05.600
<v Speaker 3>In writing yeah, yeah, yeah, a voice note at least

0:44:05.960 --> 0:44:09.960
<v Speaker 3>in an email, and Epstein responds, Yeah, Herman's a really

0:44:09.960 --> 0:44:10.399
<v Speaker 3>bad guy.

0:44:10.480 --> 0:44:12.960
<v Speaker 2>He represented several of the women who were accusing me

0:44:13.040 --> 0:44:14.360
<v Speaker 2>of six christs.

0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:18.200
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, he sounds like a bad guy. Cool stuff.

0:44:18.280 --> 0:44:21.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, sounds like a bad guy, Jeff. So Brock and

0:44:21.840 --> 0:44:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Jeffrey's friendship grows closer and closer over this period of time,

0:44:25.080 --> 0:44:28.040
<v Speaker 2>and Epstein continues to expand his involvement into crypto separate

0:44:28.080 --> 0:44:31.160
<v Speaker 2>from Brock as well, he donates extensively to the MIT

0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:34.279
<v Speaker 2>Media Lab, which was run by a guy named Joi Edo.

0:44:35.040 --> 0:44:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Joichi Joi Edo was born in Kyoto, Japan, on June nineteenth,

0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:42.560
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty six. His family immigrated to Canada when he

0:44:42.640 --> 0:44:45.160
<v Speaker 2>was three, and then the United States, where they ultimately

0:44:45.200 --> 0:44:47.960
<v Speaker 2>settled in a suburb of Detroit. His father was a

0:44:48.000 --> 0:44:50.719
<v Speaker 2>research scientist and his mother was a secretary for an

0:44:50.719 --> 0:44:55.280
<v Speaker 2>early tech company that made photovoltaic products Ovonyx. He became

0:44:55.400 --> 0:44:58.279
<v Speaker 2>Timothy Leary's godson, which should tell you most of what

0:44:58.320 --> 0:45:00.520
<v Speaker 2>you need to know about the social and political dynamics

0:45:00.560 --> 0:45:05.399
<v Speaker 2>with which joy Eto was raised. The company founder huh yeah, yeah,

0:45:05.480 --> 0:45:10.920
<v Speaker 2>why old shit Right's child went to the company founder.

0:45:11.000 --> 0:45:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Stanford Ofchinsky kind of adopted Itto as a protege when

0:45:14.560 --> 0:45:16.320
<v Speaker 2>he was a little kid. He just sees this kid's

0:45:16.560 --> 0:45:19.960
<v Speaker 2>really into you know, technology and to code, into like

0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:22.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, engineering and stuff, and to the extent that

0:45:22.840 --> 0:45:25.759
<v Speaker 2>like he starts just kind of like talking with him

0:45:25.840 --> 0:45:28.920
<v Speaker 2>and helping him out and coaching him. He eventually hires

0:45:28.960 --> 0:45:32.080
<v Speaker 2>him to do actual work with actual scientists when Itto

0:45:32.200 --> 0:45:35.800
<v Speaker 2>is thirteen years old. Ofshinsky later claimed he was not

0:45:35.920 --> 0:45:39.120
<v Speaker 2>a child in the conventional sense, And the fact that

0:45:39.120 --> 0:45:41.200
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of the story for both brock Pierce and

0:45:41.280 --> 0:45:43.319
<v Speaker 2>joy Eto is kind of interesting to me that like,

0:45:43.520 --> 0:45:45.359
<v Speaker 2>these are both guys are going to be really tied

0:45:45.400 --> 0:45:49.759
<v Speaker 2>to Epstein in some very shady ways involving underage people allegedly,

0:45:50.040 --> 0:45:53.240
<v Speaker 2>and they're also both guys who don't have childhoods themselves. Interesting,

0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:58.759
<v Speaker 2>interesting dynamic, right the family maintained Eto's family maintained strong

0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:01.520
<v Speaker 2>connections to their Japanese and moved back to Japan when

0:46:01.520 --> 0:46:04.600
<v Speaker 2>he was fourteen. He returns to the US after he

0:46:04.680 --> 0:46:08.080
<v Speaker 2>graduates to get his computer science degree from Tufts University,

0:46:08.080 --> 0:46:10.879
<v Speaker 2>which is where he meets future eBay billionaire Pierre oh

0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:15.239
<v Speaker 2>midyar Ito drops out of two different colleges, ultimately because

0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:18.680
<v Speaker 2>he's frustrated with the stupidity of the higher education system.

0:46:18.920 --> 0:46:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Ito also becomes an influential part of the musical counterculture

0:46:21.960 --> 0:46:25.279
<v Speaker 2>in Japan. He runs nightclubs in Japan. He helps to

0:46:25.280 --> 0:46:28.279
<v Speaker 2>bring industrial music to the country, and he's also an

0:46:28.320 --> 0:46:30.880
<v Speaker 2>angel investor in Kickstarter, in Twitter, as well as a

0:46:30.920 --> 0:46:33.840
<v Speaker 2>shitload of other less well known ventures like photopedia.

0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:38.680
<v Speaker 4>He wins, are the only cool person you've talked about

0:46:38.719 --> 0:46:39.080
<v Speaker 4>so far.

0:46:39.560 --> 0:46:43.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's not gonna stay cool for long. He wins

0:46:43.600 --> 0:46:47.160
<v Speaker 2>a twenty eleven Lifetime Achievement Award from the Oxford Internet

0:46:47.239 --> 0:46:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Institute for his achievements advocating for digital freedom. He writes

0:46:50.280 --> 0:46:52.960
<v Speaker 2>a monthly column for Wired, and he is a visiting

0:46:53.000 --> 0:46:55.880
<v Speaker 2>professor at Harvard. He does a lot of shit, and

0:46:55.960 --> 0:46:58.960
<v Speaker 2>then on April twenty fifth of twenty fifteen, he sends

0:46:59.000 --> 0:47:03.279
<v Speaker 2>an email to Jeffreypp asking for money. Edo is in

0:47:03.320 --> 0:47:06.960
<v Speaker 2>a tight spot. So the Bitcoin Foundation, which is the

0:47:07.120 --> 0:47:09.759
<v Speaker 2>organization that is paying the salaries of three of the

0:47:09.840 --> 0:47:13.960
<v Speaker 2>five developers for bitcoin, had just been declared bankrupt by

0:47:13.960 --> 0:47:17.120
<v Speaker 2>one of its board members. Right, so suddenly three of

0:47:17.160 --> 0:47:21.959
<v Speaker 2>the five people who are actually developing and furthering Bitcoin's

0:47:22.440 --> 0:47:26.560
<v Speaker 2>evolution are no longer getting paid. And here's how Edo,

0:47:26.719 --> 0:47:30.600
<v Speaker 2>in his email describes their importance is He's sending this

0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:34.320
<v Speaker 2>to Epstein. The five core developers are like Linus Torvold's

0:47:34.320 --> 0:47:36.719
<v Speaker 2>of Linux. They decide what changes are made to the

0:47:36.719 --> 0:47:40.279
<v Speaker 2>core code, you know. Further informs Epstein that quote, many

0:47:40.360 --> 0:47:43.200
<v Speaker 2>organizations scramble to step into the vacuum created by the

0:47:43.200 --> 0:47:46.919
<v Speaker 2>Foundation and take control of the developers. He puts take

0:47:46.960 --> 0:47:49.960
<v Speaker 2>control in quotation marks. I don't know who he's quoting,

0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:52.040
<v Speaker 2>but I do know the fact that he puts emphasis

0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:54.399
<v Speaker 2>on this is extremely important because he's framing this as

0:47:54.520 --> 0:47:59.160
<v Speaker 2>whoever is paying these developers has control over these developers,

0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:03.480
<v Speaker 2>who themselves control the future of bitcoin. Ito continues, We

0:48:03.600 --> 0:48:06.440
<v Speaker 2>moved quickly talking to all of the various stakeholders, and

0:48:06.480 --> 0:48:09.279
<v Speaker 2>the three developers decided to join the Media Lab. This

0:48:09.320 --> 0:48:11.719
<v Speaker 2>is a big win for us. And he's sending this

0:48:11.800 --> 0:48:14.960
<v Speaker 2>to Jeffrey. He's talking about this big win because Jeffrey

0:48:15.000 --> 0:48:17.680
<v Speaker 2>made this big win possible because the money that the

0:48:17.680 --> 0:48:21.359
<v Speaker 2>Media Lab uses to pay these developers comes from the

0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Epstein Foundation. Ito asks Jeffrey for this money. Jeffrey sends

0:48:26.719 --> 0:48:28.960
<v Speaker 2>him the money, and this email just quoted from is

0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Itto celebrating after they basically hire these developers, buy these developers, right, yeah,

0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:36.520
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:48:37.239 --> 0:48:40.399
<v Speaker 4>By all the printing, the money printing, they buy like.

0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:44.640
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, exactly yeah, or at least yeah, the guys the

0:48:44.760 --> 0:48:47.959
<v Speaker 2>keys to Fort Knox. Maybe yeah, well, or they buy

0:48:48.040 --> 0:48:50.640
<v Speaker 2>like the actual money printing machine and now they can

0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:54.440
<v Speaker 2>be turned to do whatever. And after kind of writing

0:48:54.480 --> 0:48:58.240
<v Speaker 2>everything that I've I've quoted from here, Itto emails Epstein

0:48:58.280 --> 0:49:01.839
<v Speaker 2>saying FYI used gift funds, that the money Epstein sent

0:49:01.920 --> 0:49:05.000
<v Speaker 2>him to underwrite this which allowed us to move quickly

0:49:05.040 --> 0:49:06.000
<v Speaker 2>and win this round.

0:49:06.440 --> 0:49:06.840
<v Speaker 4>Thanks.

0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:10.760
<v Speaker 2>And Epstein's response to this email is just Gavin is clever.

0:49:12.320 --> 0:49:17.160
<v Speaker 2>This is Gavin Andreson right. Again, very hard to say

0:49:17.200 --> 0:49:19.520
<v Speaker 2>how much contact he had with Epstein, but Epstein is

0:49:19.520 --> 0:49:23.600
<v Speaker 2>here responding to an email with Edo, who would have

0:49:23.600 --> 0:49:27.359
<v Speaker 2>been in contact with Gavin, basically saying Gavin came up

0:49:27.400 --> 0:49:30.520
<v Speaker 2>with the ideas to do that. That's kind of what

0:49:30.600 --> 0:49:35.239
<v Speaker 2>he's insinuating, right, And again it suggests that he and

0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Gavin are talking, that he and Gavin are strategizing about

0:49:38.040 --> 0:49:41.120
<v Speaker 2>the future of bitcoin. As he is definitely strategizing about

0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:44.040
<v Speaker 2>the future of bitcoin with joy Edo and providing the

0:49:44.160 --> 0:49:46.960
<v Speaker 2>money to pay for three of these five developers. That

0:49:47.160 --> 0:49:50.320
<v Speaker 2>is significant in the history of the development of bitcoin,

0:49:50.640 --> 0:49:57.799
<v Speaker 2>right yeah now. Patrick Riley a minor aspiring right wing

0:49:57.800 --> 0:50:00.279
<v Speaker 2>influencer who paid for a verified account on Twitter and

0:50:00.280 --> 0:50:04.560
<v Speaker 2>mostly seems to shill a cryptocurrency called XRP is going

0:50:04.600 --> 0:50:07.480
<v Speaker 2>to find I don't know if finally he's the first guy,

0:50:07.520 --> 0:50:09.719
<v Speaker 2>but he finds these documents in the Epstein files and

0:50:09.719 --> 0:50:11.799
<v Speaker 2>he's going to post about them, and that post is

0:50:11.840 --> 0:50:15.200
<v Speaker 2>going to cause some really interesting stuff to happen. Before

0:50:15.239 --> 0:50:18.239
<v Speaker 2>we get into the post he made about this revelation,

0:50:18.640 --> 0:50:20.480
<v Speaker 2>I want to give you a relevant example of the

0:50:20.520 --> 0:50:23.400
<v Speaker 2>previous kind of posts that Patrick L. Riley was making

0:50:23.440 --> 0:50:26.640
<v Speaker 2>on Twitter. Right, you just have an understanding of what

0:50:26.719 --> 0:50:28.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of man this is. Sophie'll have this up on

0:50:28.920 --> 0:50:32.200
<v Speaker 2>video form. This is from August tenth of twenty twenty five.

0:50:32.520 --> 0:50:36.520
<v Speaker 2>The unvaccinated are to people as XRP holders are to crypto.

0:50:36.920 --> 0:50:39.400
<v Speaker 2>Both are of the highest quality and endured a trial

0:50:39.440 --> 0:50:42.239
<v Speaker 2>that siphoned out the best of humanity. In fact, I

0:50:42.280 --> 0:50:45.040
<v Speaker 2>bet the XRP community has the highest ratio of non

0:50:45.160 --> 0:50:46.400
<v Speaker 2>vaxed in any crypto.

0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:47.439
<v Speaker 4>What a cool guy.

0:50:47.680 --> 0:50:51.040
<v Speaker 2>So that's the kind of thinker Patrick Riley? Yes, God,

0:50:52.000 --> 0:50:56.319
<v Speaker 2>So after the most recent Epstein disclosure, Patrick makes a

0:50:56.360 --> 0:50:58.920
<v Speaker 2>post and he attaches the email chain that I have

0:50:58.960 --> 0:51:02.239
<v Speaker 2>been quoting from earlier to this post, and then he

0:51:02.280 --> 0:51:05.040
<v Speaker 2>writes at the time this letter was written, there were

0:51:05.080 --> 0:51:08.399
<v Speaker 2>around twelve thousand commits to Bitcoin's code. Today there are

0:51:08.440 --> 0:51:10.840
<v Speaker 2>forty seven thousand, five hundred and eighty three commits to

0:51:10.840 --> 0:51:13.879
<v Speaker 2>Bitcoin's code. This means that seventy four point seven nine

0:51:13.920 --> 0:51:16.759
<v Speaker 2>percent of the Bitcoin core development code was committed after

0:51:16.840 --> 0:51:19.879
<v Speaker 2>Jeffrey Epstein took over the de facto senior management role

0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:22.440
<v Speaker 2>as benefactor. He may not have been Setoshi, but he

0:51:22.480 --> 0:51:25.440
<v Speaker 2>was absolutely running the executive direction of Bitcoin on behalf

0:51:25.440 --> 0:51:27.919
<v Speaker 2>of Masad. What are the odds that there are back

0:51:27.960 --> 0:51:31.040
<v Speaker 2>doors built into Bitcoin's code at this point? Porbably about

0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:37.360
<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent, he spells it, Probably horribly these brain geniuses.

0:51:37.800 --> 0:51:40.640
<v Speaker 2>So this sets off a wave of upset that verged

0:51:40.680 --> 0:51:44.319
<v Speaker 2>on nausea from many crypto true believers. For the online right,

0:51:44.440 --> 0:51:46.839
<v Speaker 2>the Epstein case is just about the most important thing

0:51:46.880 --> 0:51:50.080
<v Speaker 2>on earth. But Bitcoin is also hallowed. It's a sacred

0:51:50.120 --> 0:51:52.280
<v Speaker 2>tool for freeing money from the clutches of the state.

0:51:52.920 --> 0:51:56.480
<v Speaker 2>This post from crypto bitloord is a relevant example of

0:51:56.520 --> 0:52:01.840
<v Speaker 2>many such responses to to Patrick's I know, I know

0:52:02.480 --> 0:52:05.680
<v Speaker 2>seventy five percent of Bitcoin's code comes directly from Geoffrey

0:52:05.680 --> 0:52:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Epstein's investments. We've basically funded an elite pedophile ring since

0:52:10.080 --> 0:52:13.879
<v Speaker 2>twenty fifteen. I feel sick and like, yeah, you guys did,

0:52:14.520 --> 0:52:18.759
<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, like Rightley's wrong about a bunch. For one thing,

0:52:18.800 --> 0:52:22.320
<v Speaker 2>there's there's not evidence that the fucking massa that Epstein

0:52:22.400 --> 0:52:24.480
<v Speaker 2>was running bitcoin on behalf of messade. He was really

0:52:24.560 --> 0:52:28.360
<v Speaker 2>running bitcoin, but he was in a position to influence it.

0:52:29.080 --> 0:52:31.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't think there's not evidence that there's back doors

0:52:32.040 --> 0:52:34.640
<v Speaker 2>in bitcoin's code because you wouldn't need to. It's easy

0:52:34.680 --> 0:52:38.560
<v Speaker 2>to track bitcoin, Like what would the backdoor even be?

0:52:38.800 --> 0:52:43.239
<v Speaker 4>Right? Also, you don't you like you were funding a

0:52:43.280 --> 0:52:48.040
<v Speaker 4>global pedophile ring by participating a bitcoin before Jeffrey Epstein

0:52:48.160 --> 0:52:50.560
<v Speaker 4>was involved. That's the only thing it's good for.

0:52:50.920 --> 0:52:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that's its primary purpose. So after these posts

0:52:56.000 --> 0:52:59.480
<v Speaker 2>go viral, Bitcoin friendly press organs have to leap to

0:52:59.480 --> 0:53:01.840
<v Speaker 2>defend their favorite coin, right so that they've got to

0:53:01.920 --> 0:53:04.359
<v Speaker 2>after fucking Patrick post this and people start freaking out

0:53:04.360 --> 0:53:07.200
<v Speaker 2>over like, oh my god, refunding the pedophile cabal. Jeffrey

0:53:07.200 --> 0:53:10.200
<v Speaker 2>Epstein directed seventy five percent a bit, which also isn't

0:53:10.280 --> 0:53:13.920
<v Speaker 2>really accurate, right, Yeah, it's just that seventy five percent

0:53:14.000 --> 0:53:17.920
<v Speaker 2>of it was written after this, These developers are acquired

0:53:17.960 --> 0:53:20.799
<v Speaker 2>by joy Edo's lab, which is and that acquisition is

0:53:20.840 --> 0:53:25.000
<v Speaker 2>fund anyway. Whatever, Here's how the Bitcoin Academy website tried

0:53:25.040 --> 0:53:28.280
<v Speaker 2>to smooth all this over the funded salaries for bitcoin

0:53:28.280 --> 0:53:31.720
<v Speaker 2>core developers like Vladimir Wanderland during a cast strapped period

0:53:31.760 --> 0:53:35.080
<v Speaker 2>twenty fifteen to twenty seventeen. But here's the kicker. Epstein's

0:53:35.080 --> 0:53:38.399
<v Speaker 2>money flowed through MIT systems directly to developers. As one

0:53:38.520 --> 0:53:41.399
<v Speaker 2>x user bluntly put it, funding a university lab does

0:53:41.440 --> 0:53:45.440
<v Speaker 2>not equal running bitcoin. And this is technically true. But

0:53:45.920 --> 0:53:48.239
<v Speaker 2>when you pay the salary of three out of five

0:53:48.320 --> 0:53:51.319
<v Speaker 2>people whose votes can determine the future of bitcoin, it's

0:53:51.360 --> 0:53:55.239
<v Speaker 2>not unreasonable to say you might kind of run bitcoin, right,

0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:58.279
<v Speaker 2>Like aso, it's not unreasonable to say you have influence

0:53:58.360 --> 0:54:00.239
<v Speaker 2>in it. I'm not even saying he ran it, but

0:54:00.320 --> 0:54:02.840
<v Speaker 2>he's in a position to influence it, right.

0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:06.120
<v Speaker 4>And the technically true of it is like what a

0:54:06.360 --> 0:54:09.960
<v Speaker 4>what a like grasp of that straw, dude, Like that's sure,

0:54:10.280 --> 0:54:10.840
<v Speaker 4>I guess.

0:54:12.320 --> 0:54:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he wasn't literally guiding every step bitcoin took, but

0:54:16.280 --> 0:54:18.759
<v Speaker 2>he was in a position to guide the steps he

0:54:18.880 --> 0:54:23.160
<v Speaker 2>wanted to and to make you know, yeah, and again

0:54:23.200 --> 0:54:27.239
<v Speaker 2>The only counter argument here really is you're arguing that, like, well,

0:54:27.320 --> 0:54:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Jeffrey Epstein probably just spent half a million dollars to

0:54:29.600 --> 0:54:32.640
<v Speaker 2>get no benefit. He probably just sent that money out

0:54:32.680 --> 0:54:37.000
<v Speaker 2>because he didn't want any power or influence in bitcoin, right, Yeah,

0:54:37.000 --> 0:54:38.800
<v Speaker 2>that seems likely for Jeffrey Epstein.

0:54:38.880 --> 0:54:42.360
<v Speaker 4>But also like like the way power works is like

0:54:42.680 --> 0:54:46.759
<v Speaker 4>simply by not allowing your competitor to exert influence, you

0:54:46.880 --> 0:54:51.640
<v Speaker 4>have exerted influence like her literally done true nothing right

0:54:51.680 --> 0:54:53.920
<v Speaker 4>and as long as someone else that he didn't like

0:54:54.120 --> 0:54:56.200
<v Speaker 4>wasn't doing something something.

0:54:55.920 --> 0:54:59.600
<v Speaker 2>With it, doing a thing, that's doing a thing. Yeah. Yeah,

0:55:00.360 --> 0:55:04.280
<v Speaker 2>Now this half assed defense of bitcoin continues. Email show

0:55:04.520 --> 0:55:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Edo thanked Epstein for allowing us to move quickly and

0:55:07.600 --> 0:55:11.600
<v Speaker 2>hiring bitcoin talent. But let's be real, MIT's DCI was

0:55:11.640 --> 0:55:14.320
<v Speaker 2>one of many funders today, groups like Brink and the

0:55:14.400 --> 0:55:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Human Rights Foundation transparently support bitcoin development. Epstein's role a

0:55:18.440 --> 0:55:22.360
<v Speaker 2>shady donor, not a senior manager of bitcoin. And again

0:55:22.440 --> 0:55:26.280
<v Speaker 2>this is true and no one's surprise. Patrick Riley's tweet

0:55:26.360 --> 0:55:31.799
<v Speaker 2>was nonsense. Again, but Epstein is clearly influencing the development

0:55:31.840 --> 0:55:33.759
<v Speaker 2>of bitcoin in the mid odds. I don't see any

0:55:33.800 --> 0:55:36.000
<v Speaker 2>other way of describing this, or at least he has

0:55:36.040 --> 0:55:38.800
<v Speaker 2>influence on the men who decided how bitcoin would develop.

0:55:39.160 --> 0:55:39.279
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:42.000
<v Speaker 2>Bitcoin Academy notes that per the structure of the deal,

0:55:42.360 --> 0:55:46.760
<v Speaker 2>developers were unaware of the funding source, and maybe that's true.

0:55:47.320 --> 0:55:51.239
<v Speaker 2>Quick audience pull, How many listeners think Jeffrey Epstein would

0:55:51.239 --> 0:55:53.719
<v Speaker 2>give up a half million dollars if he didn't think

0:55:53.760 --> 0:55:56.839
<v Speaker 2>it would impact what the developers he was paying for

0:55:56.920 --> 0:55:57.279
<v Speaker 2>would do?

0:55:57.480 --> 0:55:57.919
<v Speaker 1>Quick pull?

0:55:58.000 --> 0:56:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Right, Like, do you think that they've never learned where

0:56:01.160 --> 0:56:03.880
<v Speaker 2>the money came from or who they had to keep happy?

0:56:04.440 --> 0:56:07.400
<v Speaker 4>Or they wouldn't. But that's the thing. It's like, like

0:56:07.640 --> 0:56:10.480
<v Speaker 4>I think these people are like, oh, there wasn't like

0:56:10.520 --> 0:56:13.120
<v Speaker 4>a direct like meeting which just did it for He

0:56:13.200 --> 0:56:13.920
<v Speaker 4>just did it for nothing.

0:56:14.080 --> 0:56:16.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's like, no, he did it because he

0:56:16.320 --> 0:56:17.560
<v Speaker 2>wanted a benefit to make.

0:56:19.160 --> 0:56:22.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there's just ways to communicate what you want.

0:56:22.239 --> 0:56:24.120
<v Speaker 2>I know there's a degree which this is less satisfying

0:56:24.120 --> 0:56:26.680
<v Speaker 2>because I can't say here's what he did specifically to

0:56:26.800 --> 0:56:28.960
<v Speaker 2>influence the development of crypto. I just know that he

0:56:29.080 --> 0:56:31.040
<v Speaker 2>put himself and spent a lot of money to be

0:56:31.080 --> 0:56:33.480
<v Speaker 2>in a position where he could influence the development of crypto,

0:56:33.719 --> 0:56:37.760
<v Speaker 2>which means he was doing fucking something right, and even

0:56:37.800 --> 0:56:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Bitcoin Academy couldn't entirely polish this turd. The file show

0:56:42.239 --> 0:56:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Epstein to cozy up to crypto figures. In twenty fourteen,

0:56:45.400 --> 0:56:48.879
<v Speaker 2>he reportedly invested in Blockstream via joy Itdo's fund, though

0:56:48.920 --> 0:56:52.000
<v Speaker 2>back clarifies Epstein had no direct or indirect ties to

0:56:52.040 --> 0:56:55.560
<v Speaker 2>the company. Emails reveal Epstein pitching digital currency ideas to

0:56:55.600 --> 0:56:59.000
<v Speaker 2>a Saudi advisor in twenty sixteen, but zero evidence exists

0:56:59.040 --> 0:57:02.440
<v Speaker 2>of him touching bitcoin code. His real skill name dropping

0:57:02.480 --> 0:57:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Satoshi's associates at parties, And this is true, his real

0:57:07.040 --> 0:57:10.319
<v Speaker 2>skill is name dropping famous people. But that skill has

0:57:10.480 --> 0:57:15.799
<v Speaker 2>value because people know Jeffrey can connect you to influential

0:57:15.840 --> 0:57:19.680
<v Speaker 2>and wealthy people and to funding, which is what allows

0:57:19.800 --> 0:57:23.280
<v Speaker 2>him to influence people, including the people who guided the

0:57:23.280 --> 0:57:27.560
<v Speaker 2>development of bitcoin. Yeah, it's just there's not a counter argument.

0:57:27.600 --> 0:57:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Jeffrey Epstein had the opportunity to significantly influence the development

0:57:32.000 --> 0:57:34.680
<v Speaker 2>of bitcoin and cryptocurrency as all right.

0:57:34.960 --> 0:57:38.760
<v Speaker 4>So fart matters. These two episodes have been weirdly like

0:57:39.520 --> 0:57:43.120
<v Speaker 4>he would be an odious person genuinely without the sex traffic.

0:57:43.240 --> 0:57:46.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh yeah, like if he was not a pedophile

0:57:46.400 --> 0:57:47.760
<v Speaker 2>he would still be a monster.

0:57:48.680 --> 0:57:48.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:57:49.040 --> 0:57:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that is kind of the surprising thing to

0:57:51.640 --> 0:57:53.320
<v Speaker 2>me because previously I'd been like, well, obviously he was

0:57:53.320 --> 0:57:55.360
<v Speaker 2>a bad guy because he was a sex trafficker. But

0:57:55.400 --> 0:57:57.240
<v Speaker 2>if he hadn't done any of the sex trafficking, I

0:57:57.240 --> 0:58:01.360
<v Speaker 2>would have assumed he was just another asshole finance bro. No. No,

0:58:01.680 --> 0:58:03.880
<v Speaker 2>he was unfortunately more influential than that.

0:58:04.520 --> 0:58:04.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:58:05.440 --> 0:58:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Alas anyway, that's uh, that's gonna do it for part

0:58:10.680 --> 0:58:10.960
<v Speaker 2>to it.

0:58:11.720 --> 0:58:16.000
<v Speaker 4>Wow. I mean, as far as these go, this is

0:58:16.200 --> 0:58:19.160
<v Speaker 4>this has been weirdly less stomach churning than I thought

0:58:19.280 --> 0:58:20.920
<v Speaker 4>when you said we were going to be going through

0:58:20.920 --> 0:58:23.080
<v Speaker 4>the Epstein files. I will say it a weird way

0:58:23.200 --> 0:58:23.720
<v Speaker 4>because you.

0:58:23.760 --> 0:58:26.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you're not. I'm trying to focus it on

0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:28.160
<v Speaker 2>what I think is an interesting journey, which is how

0:58:28.160 --> 0:58:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Epstein influences the development of micro transactions and video games,

0:58:32.240 --> 0:58:35.520
<v Speaker 2>of cryptocurrency, and of like the burgeoning far right, which

0:58:35.520 --> 0:58:36.680
<v Speaker 2>is more of what we're going to talk about in

0:58:36.720 --> 0:58:41.600
<v Speaker 2>the last two episodes. I think that's really compelling. Obviously,

0:58:41.640 --> 0:58:44.400
<v Speaker 2>the and we've done like four episodes on Nexteine where

0:58:44.400 --> 0:58:47.520
<v Speaker 2>we focus just on the sex crimes we are we do.

0:58:47.600 --> 0:58:49.840
<v Speaker 2>We've talked about a lot of alleged sex crimes in this,

0:58:49.960 --> 0:58:52.440
<v Speaker 2>like he and Brock talking about girls and talking about girls.

0:58:54.080 --> 0:58:56.439
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, it's just not as much. You know, it's

0:58:56.480 --> 0:58:58.960
<v Speaker 4>just odd to me that there's so much other stuff.

0:58:58.960 --> 0:59:01.880
<v Speaker 4>I guess I just I don't know. I hadn't occurred

0:59:01.960 --> 0:59:02.960
<v Speaker 4>to me, really.

0:59:03.080 --> 0:59:04.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't think it didn't to a lot

0:59:04.800 --> 0:59:07.240
<v Speaker 2>of people. He knew he was influential, but I wouldn't

0:59:07.280 --> 0:59:11.160
<v Speaker 2>have guessed a lot of this stuff was going on, right, Like, no,

0:59:11.280 --> 0:59:14.400
<v Speaker 2>it's not even surprising. It's just I wouldn't have It's

0:59:14.440 --> 0:59:16.880
<v Speaker 2>just weird for him to have had an influence here,

0:59:17.440 --> 0:59:19.200
<v Speaker 2>Like it makes sense, Like, oh, yeah, I get given

0:59:19.240 --> 0:59:21.120
<v Speaker 2>the guy he was, why he got into far right stuff,

0:59:21.160 --> 0:59:23.680
<v Speaker 2>why he was sharing all this racist ship that we'll

0:59:23.680 --> 0:59:25.280
<v Speaker 2>talk about in the next episodes, why he wanted to

0:59:25.280 --> 0:59:28.480
<v Speaker 2>get into bitcoin, all this stuff. It makes sense when

0:59:28.480 --> 0:59:30.320
<v Speaker 2>you say it. But I just would I didn't guess

0:59:30.360 --> 0:59:32.680
<v Speaker 2>it ahead of time, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I

0:59:32.680 --> 0:59:35.720
<v Speaker 2>think I'm not surprised, but I'm like, oh fuck, uh, yeah,

0:59:35.800 --> 0:59:36.760
<v Speaker 2>I didn't call that one.

0:59:37.200 --> 0:59:39.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's just an interesting angle.

0:59:40.040 --> 0:59:42.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's the Where's Waldo of evil villain.

0:59:43.080 --> 0:59:46.040
<v Speaker 2>He's a where's the where's waldough of evil pedophiles?

0:59:46.320 --> 0:59:46.840
<v Speaker 4>Kilroy?

0:59:47.720 --> 0:59:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah he's a Kilroy type dude. Well, no one knows

0:59:50.640 --> 0:59:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Kilroy was here. Was like an early meme, but we

0:59:53.000 --> 0:59:56.080
<v Speaker 2>don't really know, like why, like what it was about.

0:59:56.800 --> 1:00:01.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, well well well.

1:00:02.360 --> 1:00:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Well more next week for folks.

1:00:05.040 --> 1:00:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Uh, Sophie, I do have to say, Uh, you've

1:00:08.480 --> 1:00:13.000
<v Speaker 2>been You've been caught by the subreddit why breaking. Sophie

1:00:13.040 --> 1:00:15.760
<v Speaker 2>is not a real person. Sophie is an advanced artificial

1:00:15.800 --> 1:00:18.080
<v Speaker 2>intelligence built to serve the needs of the pod. We

1:00:18.160 --> 1:00:20.880
<v Speaker 2>have this confirmed. It's in the White Papers proof Sophie

1:00:20.960 --> 1:00:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Ray Lichtermann is an anagram for both AI policeman Thresher

1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:29.880
<v Speaker 2>and America's hit Their phone is actually strong evidence. Sophie,

1:00:29.960 --> 1:00:31.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I haven't, I haven't I have a

1:00:31.320 --> 1:00:34.080
<v Speaker 2>double checked. This could just be a lie. Probably is

1:00:34.080 --> 1:00:34.439
<v Speaker 2>a lie.

1:00:34.600 --> 1:00:34.960
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

1:00:35.000 --> 1:00:35.680
<v Speaker 2>I've done no work.

1:00:35.760 --> 1:00:40.000
<v Speaker 4>That is my favorite part about conspiracy theorists in general

1:00:40.200 --> 1:00:43.000
<v Speaker 4>is the amount of time they think people doing evil

1:00:43.040 --> 1:00:44.560
<v Speaker 4>stuff spent anagramming.

1:00:45.440 --> 1:00:48.760
<v Speaker 2>The amount of importance anagrams have to the global pedophile

1:00:48.840 --> 1:00:50.720
<v Speaker 2>ely is really funny.

1:00:50.600 --> 1:00:52.840
<v Speaker 4>Like, how do we see the actual correspondence of the

1:00:52.880 --> 1:00:54.840
<v Speaker 4>global pedophil. They can't spell.

1:00:55.160 --> 1:00:57.560
<v Speaker 2>They can't fucking spell these words.

1:00:57.720 --> 1:00:59.200
<v Speaker 4>How are they gonna do it? Anagram?

1:00:59.320 --> 1:00:59.440
<v Speaker 1>Ok?

1:00:59.600 --> 1:01:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Jeffrey Epstein can barely use a keyboard.

1:01:02.960 --> 1:01:06.160
<v Speaker 1>This is actually on the subreddit. I thought you were

1:01:06.200 --> 1:01:08.560
<v Speaker 1>just there's forty three comments.

1:01:08.640 --> 1:01:10.520
<v Speaker 4>Come on, guys, I.

1:01:10.440 --> 1:01:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Know so, I'm sorry. I thought it was funny. God,

1:01:14.520 --> 1:01:17.240
<v Speaker 2>good stuff. Andrew? Did you plug your pluggables yet?

1:01:17.640 --> 1:01:20.240
<v Speaker 4>Sure? Did Starter Trek? I don't know. Thanks, thanks for

1:01:20.320 --> 1:01:22.880
<v Speaker 4>having me. This is I won't. I cannot in good

1:01:22.920 --> 1:01:25.400
<v Speaker 4>conscience say it's fun to be here, but it's not.

1:01:25.560 --> 1:01:29.560
<v Speaker 4>We illuminated, but you are here. I have a pluggable

1:01:31.320 --> 1:01:35.280
<v Speaker 4>touch crap touch crab. You know what I should actually say.

1:01:35.720 --> 1:01:38.160
<v Speaker 4>Solidarity and Snacks is the mutual aid crew that I

1:01:38.520 --> 1:01:40.840
<v Speaker 4>run with out here in Los Angeles. They're great folks.

1:01:40.880 --> 1:01:44.120
<v Speaker 4>Solidarity and Snacks. You can find them.

1:01:44.440 --> 1:01:48.040
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, everybody, This has been Behind the Bastards,

1:01:48.160 --> 1:01:51.400
<v Speaker 2>a podcast that you just listened to. Shame on you.

1:01:54.720 --> 1:01:57.280
<v Speaker 1>Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:01:57.440 --> 1:02:00.160
<v Speaker 1>For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website hoole

1:02:00.200 --> 1:02:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Zone Media dot com, or check us out on the

1:02:02.440 --> 1:02:06.160
<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:02:06.680 --> 1:02:09.360
<v Speaker 1>Full video episodes that Behind the Bastards are now streaming

1:02:09.400 --> 1:02:12.560
<v Speaker 1>on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit Remind Me

1:02:12.640 --> 1:02:15.520
<v Speaker 1>on Netflix you don't miss an episode. For clips in

1:02:15.520 --> 1:02:18.560
<v Speaker 1>our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube

1:02:18.600 --> 1:02:22.600
<v Speaker 1>channel YouTube dot com slash at Behind the Bastards. We

1:02:22.720 --> 1:02:25.640
<v Speaker 1>love about forty percent of you, statistically speaking,