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Speaker 1: As media.

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Speaker 2: Ah, welcome pod to Behind the Bastard Cast episodes Epstein, Jeffrey,

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Speaker 2: I'm Robert Evans.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 2: How are you doing? Andrew T?

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Speaker 4: Like that you said the last sentence in syntactical order. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's upsetting, isn't it?

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Speaker 4: Ever? Robert? Am I?

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Speaker 2: What am I up to? What's my plan? You know?

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Speaker 2: What's my ultimate goal? What am I working towards here

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Speaker 2: by doing this? I don't know, Andrew T. I just

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Speaker 2: don't know. How are you okay?

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Speaker 4: I just ate the top half of a tomato, and

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Speaker 4: I actually feel pretty energized.

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Speaker 2: Best half of a tomato, to be honest, like the

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Speaker 2: bottom half of a tomato. That's for chumps idiots.

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Speaker 4: Really, Yeah, stem side, you gotta nibble around the stem.

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Speaker 2: Gotta nibble the stem, baby. I'm always saying that. That's

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Speaker 2: that's why, that's my motto, Baby, nibble the stem. You

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Speaker 2: know you put it on T shirts? That's right? Wow, Andrew?

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Speaker 2: Where can people find you on the internet? Before we

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Speaker 2: get into our episodes for Today, where we continue the

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Speaker 2: tale of Jeffrey Epstein birthing the modern world, man birthing

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Speaker 2: the modern world.

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Speaker 4: Thanks, I guess I don't know Andrew on social media.

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Speaker 4: But I do you know as this racist the podcast

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Speaker 4: and we have our premium shows at Suboptimalpods dot com,

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Speaker 4: which are fun. We've been doing one called starter Trek,

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Speaker 4: which is really fun, a little how slightly insider look

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Speaker 4: at star Trek my lovest Tawny Newsome knows everything about

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Speaker 4: Star Trek. She writes on Startrek Academy. She was the

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Speaker 4: voice of Beckett Mariner other stuff.

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Speaker 2: I think Keeper of the Flame. Well, I also want

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Speaker 2: to send people somewhere. The Artist Mentorship Program in Portland

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Speaker 2: helps primarily youth experiencing homelessness, get essential supplies and job training,

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Speaker 2: and have music and art programs at the heart of

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Speaker 2: their work. If you want to support the good things

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Speaker 2: that they do and have done for more than thirty years,

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Speaker 2: go to AMPPDX dot org. That's AMPPDX dot org. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's all that, Robert.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate the chance to before all the Haydes shit

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Speaker 4: gets set. Yes, yes, do you like the separation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's important to plug before the Heinus shit gets said,

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Speaker 2: because people are going to feel markedly less good about

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Speaker 2: the world once we continue talking about Jeffrey Epstein creating

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Speaker 2: all of the bullshit that you deal with on a

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Speaker 2: daily basis as a person in society. Sorry about that,

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Speaker 2: so Part two. One of the frustrating things about delving

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Speaker 2: into the Epstein files is that you are repeatedly confronted

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Speaker 2: by the fact that Jeffrey Epstein was a person, and

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Speaker 2: like any person, he had nicknames for people in words

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Speaker 2: that he used in an idiosyncratic fashion that only his

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Speaker 2: friends and his social circle fully understood. Everyone's like this,

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Speaker 2: but it's weird to be confronted by these very human

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Speaker 2: aspects of the life of a monster. It's frustrating because

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Speaker 2: it means there's a lot that will never fully understand.

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Speaker 2: For example, Epstein started sending girls, and again, since the

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Speaker 2: term girls was used in the email, and this is

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Speaker 2: Jeffery Epstein, we must assume they were underaged kids to brock,

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Speaker 2: or at least there's a good chance they were to brock.

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Speaker 2: One of these girls Epstein described as my little Susie

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Speaker 2: or Sue in emails he's sent during the spring of

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Speaker 2: twenty twelve. Youw, I don't think we have a great

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Speaker 2: idea of who this was yet. I haven't figured. At

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Speaker 2: least my clumsy searching around did not figure out who

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Speaker 2: Sue was, and given that she's probably a victim, I

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Speaker 2: don't know that we need to look too hard into this,

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Speaker 2: but she grew very close to Brock Pierce, or at

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Speaker 2: least that's the way Epstein and Brock's emails portray it.

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Speaker 2: And Epstein asked regularly after Brock's relationship with Sue with

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Speaker 2: a kind of interest that makes me think that because

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Speaker 2: he connected them, maybe Epstein saw Sue as his in

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Speaker 2: to Brock, who he considered a valuable contact. Right, Maybe

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Speaker 2: it was a situation where Epstein quote unquote discovered this girl,

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Speaker 2: however old she actually is, sends her to Brock, They

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Speaker 2: become close, and Epstein is curious about this relationship because

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Speaker 2: it's his leverage basically, right. Pierce, though, seems to have

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Speaker 2: valued Epstein as well. On May first of twenty twelve,

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Speaker 2: he messaged Jeffrey saying, I know a girl in New York.

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Speaker 2: You may like, how should I introduce you? And then

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Speaker 2: at Jeffrey's like, basically, like, you know, you can send

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Speaker 2: me her Facebook or whatever, and so he sends her.

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Speaker 2: He gives her a name and asks like, hey, can

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Speaker 2: you check her out on Facebook? And Jeffrey just replies, cute,

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Speaker 2: so great. You know, like this just gives you kind

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Speaker 2: of an insight into how things worked, right, this is

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Speaker 2: brock Is. It seems graduated from being the kind of

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Speaker 2: person that Jeffrey just supplies with girls to being the

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Speaker 2: kind of person who is connecting Jeffrey to girl. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: which is an evolution of their relationship. Again, I don't

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Speaker 2: know how old this person is, but he does use

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Speaker 2: the word girl, so it's not legally he's questionable to wonder.

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Speaker 4: Right. It's also like this thing where it's so like

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Speaker 4: because you start to also kind of get the sense that,

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Speaker 4: I mean, on some level, they knew what they were doing.

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Speaker 2: Was wrong, but it doesn't feel like.

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Speaker 4: It was illegal. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think the knew it was wrong in

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Speaker 2: im morals. They certainly don't believe it, but they know

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Speaker 2: that if people find out, they could get in trouble.

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Speaker 4: Yeah about a lot of what they're doing, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: they don't seem to consider what they're doing to be wrong.

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Speaker 2: No, they think they treat sex trafficking of underage girls

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Speaker 2: the way I think normal people treat like doing drugs, right,

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Speaker 2: where like it's illegal. You want to be a little

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Speaker 2: careful about it because you could get in trouble if

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Speaker 2: you get caught. But you're not judging your friend because

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Speaker 2: they do acid once a year or take mushrooms occasionally, right, right,

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Speaker 2: That's very much how they treat it, right, right. So

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Speaker 2: a month after this email chain where Brock sends Epstein

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Speaker 2: this girl's Facebook page, Pierce told Epstein that he was

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Speaker 2: taking a trip to Moscow, Kiev and Odessa because that

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Speaker 2: was an itinerary you could have back in twenty twelve.

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Speaker 2: Epstein asked him to take photos and find me a present,

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Speaker 2: and Pierce replied, will do, and then a smiley face,

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Speaker 2: and those photos are photos of girls, and the present

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Speaker 2: is girls.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: Several days later, Pierce replied with more than a dozen

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Speaker 2: images of what we have to I believe we're naked

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Speaker 2: young women, or at least scantily clad young women. It's

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Speaker 2: a little clear to me because of how you know

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Speaker 2: the email is preserved. But he sends these photos with

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Speaker 2: the sentence the Ukraine is now my favorite country. Smiley face,

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Speaker 2: just Ukraine. But I don't know. I feel like when

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Speaker 2: you're the sex trafficking is I shouldn't be a pedant

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Speaker 2: about language here, No, and again, we don't know that

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Speaker 2: this is sex trafficking. I don't know what age these

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Speaker 2: these people are. You know, it's just gross. Brock is

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Speaker 2: both being provided by Epstein and also providing too at

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Speaker 2: this point, right, which gives you an idea of how

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Speaker 2: a lot of his relationships ships function. This is we're

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Speaker 2: talking about him and Pierce, but he had a number

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Speaker 2: of famous dudes who he had similar relationships with where

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Speaker 2: it presumably starts with him feeding them women, but they

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Speaker 2: also you know, push people his way, right, That's how

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Speaker 2: a lot of this certainly funk. Like this like low

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Speaker 2: rent frat house shit where you're like, right, right, exactly,

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Speaker 2: it's and they talk about it that way, right. They

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Speaker 2: don't talk about it like we're doing a secret criminal enterprise.

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Speaker 2: They talk about it like dudes talking about a hot

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Speaker 2: chick at college, except for the chick is thirty years

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Speaker 2: younger than them, right, Yeah, and they met her fucking

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Speaker 2: because Gilan Maxwell Spider outside of a high school or something.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, it's gross. Also in twenty twelve,

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Speaker 2: Epstein continued to gather influence in the world of video games.

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Speaker 2: He started emailing regularly with Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotik.

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Speaker 2: Actually it may have been earlier. In this, we don't

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Speaker 2: know exactly how long he and Bobby were in regular contact.

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Speaker 2: The email show at least as far back as November

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Speaker 2: of twenty twelve, which is in that month Kotik visited

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Speaker 2: New York, but they had been friends previously, right. We

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Speaker 2: know the two planned to meet in person during that

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Speaker 2: November twenty twelve trip, and we know that Epstein even

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Speaker 2: tempted Kotek to come a day earlier by saying, Hey,

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Speaker 2: if you show up early, you can hang out with

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Speaker 2: Woody Allen. Ew oh boy is well, yeah, I'm on board.

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Speaker 2: You don't want to hang with Woody Allen.

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Speaker 4: I mean, look, at least these guys morality is consistent. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I did.

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Speaker 2: The first time I saw Woody in one of these,

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Speaker 2: I had a moment of free kunters like, oh god,

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Speaker 2: is it Woody Harrelson. That would really bum me out?

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Speaker 2: And it's like, oh, no, exists, It's gotta be Woody Allen, right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it is. It is Woody Allen. It's what's interesting

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Speaker 2: to me is that Epstein brings up Woody Allen other times, right,

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Speaker 2: like when he's talking with Elon Musk and he's trying

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Speaker 2: to convince Elon Musk to hang out one Christmas. He

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Speaker 2: also brings out like Woody Allen's gonna be there. It

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Speaker 2: could be you and me and Woody Allen partying together.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he seems to think this is like a

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Speaker 2: big get for a lot, like this is maybe if

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Speaker 2: I sweeten the pot with Woody Allen, this rich, famous

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Speaker 2: guy will want to hang out with me.

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Speaker 4: I mean, to be fair, Manhattan is basically what these

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Speaker 4: guys are trying to aspire to like at all times.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Manhattan or fucking I mean, we don't

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Speaker 2: need to talk about Woody Allen movies. So that said Kotech,

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Speaker 2: and again we can we know they were emailing regularly

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Speaker 2: in twenty twelve. Kotech is connected to Epstein for quite

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Speaker 2: a while longer than that. We have a two thousand

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Speaker 2: and four April of two thousand and four email between

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Speaker 2: him and Gilan Maxwell where he's talking about Gillen's sexy body.

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Speaker 2: So they the two of them seem to have had

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Speaker 2: an affair of some sort, which at least Gillen's an adult.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know, Bobby, you get the maybe had

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Speaker 2: sex with an adult while hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein Award,

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Speaker 2: which is not much of an award, Bobby Kotick not

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Speaker 2: much of an award. The most significant aspect of Kotek

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Speaker 2: and Epstein's friendship was that Jeffrey used as an influence

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Speaker 2: over Bobby to push for more micro transactions in video games.

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Speaker 2: He's really trying to convince Bobby this is the future

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Speaker 2: of gaming, right. Bobby's already convinced of this, but Epstein's

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Speaker 2: further piling on right and is trying to encourage some

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Speaker 2: specific ways that this should develop. I don't mean to

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Speaker 2: say that like Epstein introduced the idea to Bobby Kotick.

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Speaker 2: He's the kind of soulless school who would always have

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Speaker 2: loved this thing and was pushing for it previously, but

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Speaker 2: Epstein is trying to shift him in specific directions as

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Speaker 2: relates to this stuff. On May second of twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 2: Kotik asked Epstein for advice ahead of a meeting with

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Speaker 2: New York City Department of Education Chancellor Joel Klein. Specifically,

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Speaker 2: he asked if Epstein knew of any Edu tan games

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Speaker 2: that we're doing it right, and what I assume was

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Speaker 2: happening here is that as CEO of Activision Blizzard, he's

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Speaker 2: meeting with the Department of New York City Education Chancellor

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Speaker 2: to see if, like, can we make a deal about

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Speaker 2: like providing educational games to the school system New York. Right, Like,

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Speaker 2: that's probably the reason for this. And again, because I

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Speaker 2: can't say directly, here is how Epstein influenced how Kotik

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Speaker 2: felt about micro transactions. Here's what he introduced the industry.

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Speaker 2: I don't have a clear thing for that, but what

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Speaker 2: I can say is Bobby Kotik valued Epstein's opinions enough

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Speaker 2: that he asks him for advice ahead of a meeting

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Speaker 2: like this, and he listens when Epstein tells him what

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Speaker 2: he thinks should be happening with this stuff, which suggests

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Speaker 2: Epstein is influencing the development of micro transactions in gaming

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Speaker 2: to some level, right, and not the creed, not the

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Speaker 2: main but he's one of the dominoes there.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I'm with Kotik. This is like if we're

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Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen. He got divorced in twenty twelve, this

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Speaker 1: before he starts publicly dating Cheryl Sandberg.

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Speaker 4: Yes it is, but this is this is.

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Speaker 1: Just like an interesting timeline for this.

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Speaker 2: From Gillen Maxwell to Sharon Sandberg. What a what a

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Speaker 2: fascinating romantic life this man's had.

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Speaker 1: Disturbing weird little guy, was it?

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Speaker 4: Listen, did you repost on Blue Sky's something about like,

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Speaker 4: all right, maybe you're going to get to this about

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Speaker 4: like one of the one of the reasons is to

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Speaker 4: like indoctrinate kids into like.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, we're talking about all that right now. So

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Speaker 2: Kochik emails and being like, do you have any suggestions

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Speaker 2: for this meeting with this guy from you know, the

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Speaker 2: Department of Education, New York, and Epstein says you should

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Speaker 2: play Medal of Honor or Call of Duty and then

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Speaker 2: quote you will learn war history, right, basically saying video

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Speaker 2: games are already great at teaching kids about war, which

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Speaker 2: they're not.

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Speaker 4: I don't think people learn a.

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Speaker 2: Lot you're at war history from goll of Duty or

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Speaker 2: Medal of Honor some stuff.

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Speaker 4: Sure well, they certainly learned that their two equal sides

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Speaker 4: are Allies and the gervis. It's morally fine to be

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Speaker 4: on either, to play either, right now.

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Speaker 2: What's interesting to me about this is that Epstein's initial response, like,

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Speaker 2: just played either these video games and you can learn

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Speaker 2: war history. Games are great at teaching kids stuff. That's

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Speaker 2: kind of like the throwaway response you expect from Epstein.

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Speaker 2: But what follows is really unique because after that initial line,

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Speaker 2: he writes out like a five paragraph essay laying out

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Speaker 2: his thoughts on this subject. And this is not a

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Speaker 2: normal response for Jeffrey. The biggest difference from his normal

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Speaker 2: correspondence is that nearly every word in this essay is

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Speaker 2: spelled properly and the grammar is mostly correct. It's very weird,

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Speaker 2: Like you see dozens hundreds of emails of him where

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Speaker 2: he's just like spelling like a dipshit. And then you

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Speaker 2: see this like almost a page of writing that's like

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Speaker 2: well formatted and like, I don't know if someone else

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Speaker 2: wrote it for him.

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Speaker 4: Right, he like copy pasted from a white paper.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he clearly had a document, but it sounds like idiosyncratic,

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Speaker 2: like it's in his voice. If he had someone else

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Speaker 2: type it up, I don't know. It's weird. And in

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Speaker 2: this essay, Epstein argues that video games quote already great

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Speaker 2: at teaching, and then expresses something almost identical to how

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Speaker 2: pro AI people argue chatbots are going to revolutionize education fundamentally.

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Speaker 2: The thing that works is a one to one student

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Speaker 2: teacher ratio. Even if you have a shitty teacher or tutor,

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Speaker 2: you will learn a lot because that person gets to

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Speaker 2: know you and challenges you at your level. That doesn't scale,

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Speaker 2: but computers do. So we have to use computers to

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Speaker 2: replace teachers or at least augment them. Thank you, Jeffrey,

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Speaker 2: thanks for seeding that into society.

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Speaker 5: No, no, it's interesting to see like this is, you know,

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Speaker 5: a deca years later going to be a decade or

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Speaker 5: so later, going to be what like all the AI

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Speaker 5: bros Are saying about education, And it's interesting to see

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Speaker 5: Jeffrey Land of the same spot in like twenty twelve.

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Speaker 2: But also because.

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Speaker 4: That's largely just the right wing thing is like who cares?

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Speaker 2: Got to get rid of teachers?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, get rid of teachers. Give your people the dumbest,

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Speaker 4: most uninformative thing. It's fright.

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Speaker 2: And he's not talking about this, but you have to

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Speaker 2: think again, Epstein's angry. He's been judged by you know,

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Speaker 2: what he believes is a prudish society for something that

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Speaker 2: he shouldn't be punished for. He's angry, and he probably

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Speaker 2: sees to a degree the education system and the things

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Speaker 2: it's taught women as being responsible for his woes. So

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Speaker 2: I suspect there's more than a little. Well we can

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Speaker 2: if we do this, then we have control of the

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Speaker 2: computers that are teaching kids and thus the things that

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Speaker 2: they learn.

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Speaker 4: Right, But do you think it's that in affair, because

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Speaker 4: that's the thing that I do is like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 4: but it's or I guess what I mean is like

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Speaker 4: that not nefarious, but not because they're so dumb and

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Speaker 4: not details oriented otherwise that I like have trouble squaring

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Speaker 4: like this grand vision and actually pulling it off. I

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Speaker 4: guess yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's less of a grand because you know, Epstein isn't

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Speaker 2: the guy making this stuff. He's just kind of talking

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Speaker 2: to people who will be owning the companies that own

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Speaker 2: it about what he how he wants to see it

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Speaker 2: used right, right, And I don't think Epstein's not engaged

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Speaker 2: in a cohesive plot with a bunch of other rich

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Speaker 2: guys to destroy education. I think he just sees this

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Speaker 2: as beneficial and a better way to do society right.

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Speaker 2: And I think part of why he sees it is that,

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Speaker 2: like he doesn't like or respect a lot of people

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Speaker 2: in this yeah, who are doing this job, right.

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Speaker 4: And you know what, and I guess like the vision

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Speaker 4: versus the execution is what, right, That's what ice is.

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Speaker 4: Ice is the vision and the execution of that vision,

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Speaker 4: which is Gooddy.

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Speaker 2: And he's he's just kind of got and he's talking

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Speaker 2: with his other rich friend because he's he's and he's

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Speaker 2: an idea guy. Right, That's Epstein's whole brand. So he

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Speaker 2: goes on in this essay to say that the real

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Speaker 2: issue is that today's with educational games is that today's

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Speaker 2: video games just don't try to teach stuff we care about.

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Speaker 2: And it's unclear who we is. I think he's referring

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Speaker 2: to we as in like people like you and me, Bobby,

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Speaker 2: like smart, rich guys care about quote. Right. The best

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Speaker 2: scheme I've come up with so far is to use

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Speaker 2: the X Prize or something like it to co opt

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Speaker 2: the existing video game industry. You want to skip convincing

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Speaker 2: educators and parents about this stuff and just go straight

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Speaker 2: for the kids. Ew I mean I can get him

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Speaker 2: to be fair.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, not not that this is a good use, but

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Speaker 4: the probably one of the least sinister uses of go

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Speaker 4: straight for the kids. Jeffrey Epstein has ever.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this is yeah, right, like grading on a curve

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Speaker 2: that continue because as soon as he says, you want

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Speaker 2: to skip convincing parents and teach it, just go straight

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Speaker 2: for the kids by making a game that gets them addicted.

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Speaker 2: Then Epstein provides his own suggestion for like what an

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Speaker 2: educational game might look like, and he he suggests a

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Speaker 2: game that would teach a player how to read and

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Speaker 2: pronounce Japanese kanji. Quote. Imagine you are looking at a

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Speaker 2: door in a video game. It has some squiggly symbols

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Speaker 2: printed on it. Little munchkins walk up to that door

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Speaker 2: and say conichiwa. The door opens, and they are greeted

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Speaker 2: by a hot princess with big tits and a thong.

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Speaker 2: The door closes in your face. You are going to

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Speaker 2: fucking learned to read and pronounce kanji.

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Speaker 4: That's why I'm like, they're so dumb. I just can't

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Speaker 4: believe we're ruled by these boks.

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Speaker 2: There's the there's the the line between. I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein controlled all of this as the puppet master,

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Speaker 2: but he had a lot of ideas that he helped

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Speaker 2: to seed in powerful people who then took those ideas further.

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Speaker 2: And also the way he thinks about all This shows

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Speaker 2: you how the ruling class thought about and thinks about

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Speaker 2: all this stuff and was talking about it, and he

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Speaker 2: influenced that, right. I mean to me, it's just.

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Speaker 4: Like all these unfuckable dweves finally like forced their way

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Speaker 4: into some sex through violence and coercion. Yeah, now they're

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Speaker 4: money pressed the man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well and the fucking the whole you see, just

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Speaker 2: like the the fact that women don't really matter to

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Speaker 2: him is made very evident, just in the fact that

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Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, hot princess, big tits in a thong,

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Speaker 2: that'll teach him how to read kanji, and yeah, the

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Speaker 2: little girls kind of being enticed. I have issues believing

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Speaker 2: this would work on boys, But like, are they gonna

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Speaker 2: want the big titted, hot princess Jeffrey in this game

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Speaker 2: for schools that you want to put in school. Epstein

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Speaker 2: then concludes edutainment is for pussies because once kids catch

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Speaker 2: on you are trying to teach them something, they shut down.

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Speaker 2: We have to keep the boobs and guns in profit.

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Speaker 2: You see how much money video games are making these days.

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Speaker 2: Fuck educational reform, we need educational subversion. And what he's

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Speaker 2: saying here is that like this stuff. You don't want

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Speaker 2: to make educate. You want to make games that get

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Speaker 2: kids addicted and you teach them and push messages through

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Speaker 2: the games that they're playing while also profiting off of them.

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Speaker 2: And the way to do that is make games that

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Speaker 2: they are addicted to playing. They are compulsively like attractive

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Speaker 2: to them. Right, your goal is to subvert the educational system.

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Speaker 2: You're almost saying, we want these games to teach kids

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Speaker 2: a separate set of things that they're learning in school

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Speaker 2: and society.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: You want to think about, like how gaming culture has

388
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,400
Speaker 2: been used by guys like Bannon who are attached to Epstein.

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00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 2: You can see some really direct through lines here, right. Yeah, Now,

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00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 2: after Epstein goes on this very weird rant, Bobby Kotik

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Speaker 2: doesn't respond, are you fucking crazy? And Steady responds, X

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Speaker 2: prize is a good idea, but key is real world rewards,

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Speaker 2: learn to read, earn cell phone minutes, iPhone credits, virtual

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Speaker 2: items and games. Eh, that's a funny email in its

395
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Speaker 2: own right. Future ist Pablos Holman, who's looped into Epstein,

396
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 2: loops Poblos into this conversation, and Pablos responds with just

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Speaker 2: a dig at Bobby Kotek, saying I'm all for indoctrinating

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Speaker 2: kids into an economy you gotta love who His example

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Speaker 2: for real world rewards is virtual items and games, which is,

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Speaker 2: I mean, Pablos, you're a You're tied to Jeffrey Epstein

401
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 2: forever and now. So that's shameful, but that is a

402
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 2: pretty good dig.

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Speaker 4: I mean, like every time you don't respond only with

404
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 4: what the fuck are you guys talking about? With shit?

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Speaker 2: Dipshit. Yeah, and Holman is obviously correct that Kotik is

406
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Speaker 2: a visionless slug of a man who ruined at least

407
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Speaker 2: one great company. These amails were sent just a few

408
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Speaker 2: weeks after the launch of Call of Duty Black Ops two,

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Speaker 2: the first Call of Duty game to feature micro transactions.

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Speaker 2: Per an article in The Gamer by James Lucas, Call

411
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Speaker 2: of Duty Ghosts, which launched later that year, went even

412
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Speaker 2: further with paid special characters, voiceover packs, skins, camo, and

413
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,479
Speaker 2: even weapons. It's not hard to draw line between these

414
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 2: conversations with Epstein and industry figures and the sudden boom

415
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,199
Speaker 2: and micro transactions that occurred around the same time period,

416
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Speaker 2: but what's most concerning is the apparent interest to normalize

417
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 2: aggressive monetization strategies towards younger audiences, as suggested in remarks

418
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 2: made by Epstein's associates and the DOJ documents. And Epstein again,

419
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Speaker 2: he doesn't invent the idea of micro transactions in children's games.

420
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 2: Bobby's thinking about this before Epstein starts talking about it,

421
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 2: but Epstein is influencing his thoughts on it. And Epstein

422
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 2: is talking a lot about how we need to normalize

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Speaker 2: using games to deliver propaganda to kids by addicting them.

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00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 2: Right that, like the fact that the game is addictive

425
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 2: and has the guns and the tits and you know,

426
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 2: makes money is part of like what keeps the kid

427
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 2: paying attention, what allows you to influence them with the

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Speaker 2: content and the game. And this is a big part

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Speaker 2: of the modern micro transaction industry. Right, Like what we

430
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Speaker 2: ultimately landed on is fuck teaching kids anything. Just get

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Speaker 2: them hooked, like get them get them playing games where

432
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 2: they're going to be sending money regularly and gambling for

433
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 2: stuff like loot boxes.

434
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 4: Right. And it's it's also like that most of these

435
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,719
Speaker 4: are built on whales, Like it doesn't broadly the kids.

436
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 4: It's like the unfortunate I don't know what is it

437
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 4: like four or five percent somewhere in there who are

438
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 4: like paying for everything else and more.

439
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,360
Speaker 2: No, but it is I mean the fact that these

440
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 2: are present in the games. Even though most of the

441
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 2: money isn't coming from randomly, it still affects them right.

442
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 2: Researchers from the Australian Consumer Policy Research Center the CPRC

443
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 2: and Monash University in twenty sixteen identified twenty dark patterns

444
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 2: of monetization in modern games, the worst of which were

445
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 2: gambling like features such as paid loot boxes like the

446
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 2: ones Bobby Kotik helped push at Activision Blizzard. Per an

447
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 2: investigation by ABC Australia, quote, the design features were not

448
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 2: in all games, but ninety five percent of adult players

449
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 2: surveyed had come across them at eighty three percent had

450
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: suffered negative consequences. So this is a harmful industry and

451
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: it's one that you know Jeffrey is a cheerleader for. Again,

452
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 2: he's not the founder of it, but he's one of

453
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: the He's one of the dominoes here. Today, the global

454
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 2: online micro transaction market is more than worth more than

455
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: seventy five billion dollars a year, As Epstein said, we

456
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 2: have to keep the boobs and guns in profit.

457
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 5: Right.

458
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 2: An article into BBC by Catherine Latham makes the end

459
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 2: result of all this very clear. Gaming companies use behavioral

460
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 2: psychology to manipulate users into spending, says professor Sarah Mills,

461
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 2: and the link between gaming and gambling is becoming increasingly blurred,

462
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 2: she explains. Ms Mills is a profess sort of human

463
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: geography at Loughborough University, where research found gambling techniques make

464
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: gamers play for longer and spend more money and drive

465
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 2: repeat buying. And we could go on from here to

466
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: discuss the outrageous proliferation of gambling apps for young people

467
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 2: and how companies like Activision Blizzard paved the way for

468
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 2: shit like Caushi.

469
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 4: Right.

470
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 2: And Epstein is a piece of that story. Right, But

471
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 2: that's also getting us all away from the Epstein of it,

472
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 2: because this is stuff that's largely occurred since the end

473
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 2: of his life.

474
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 4: Right.

475
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 2: I think we've done enough to establish how harmful this

476
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: trend is, and that Jeffrey was a prominent voice urging

477
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: developers to go down this road and urging developers at

478
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: a high level talking to the C suites.

479
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 4: Right.

480
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 2: I should also note that Epstein and Kote's friendship went

481
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 2: deeper than just work related conversations. These aren't just guys

482
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: who are talking shop. Per Kotaku article by Ethan Gatsch,

483
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 2: Emails between the two were allegedly exchanged multiple times in

484
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, as well. A February twenty fourth, twenty thirteen

485
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 2: emails stated that Epstein was in La planning a visit

486
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 2: to SpaceX that week and was trying to link up

487
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: with Kotik while in town. Thanks but rather see you,

488
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 2: Epstein wrote in one email taking girls after to bell Air.

489
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 2: Ko Tik at one point allegedly wrote back, come with

490
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: your friends to buy house Beverly Hills ten minutes from

491
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: bel Air.

492
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 4: Great. Also, that's an insane thing to put in an email.

493
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 2: Down it's crazy. Got to hang out with Elon Musket

494
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 2: SpaceX before taking my girls to the CEO of Activision

495
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: Blizzard's house.

496
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 4: And again notably invited.

497
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 2: Right Elon's Oh, I mean you don't want him at

498
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: at the good parties? You know you don't want You

499
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 2: don't want him and Bobby Kotik in a room at

500
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: the same time. That's just too much cool. You know

501
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: who else is cool?

502
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 5: Me?

503
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: Some would say, sure, of course, Sophie, Yes, Andrew T Sure,

504
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 2: Andrew T. Okay, you know, and also the sponsors of

505
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 2: this podcast.

506
00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, Evans, Robert.

507
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 2: And we're back. You know, we're talking Jepstein, Jeffrey Epstein.

508
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 2: So Epstein's friendship with Brock Pierce continued along a similar

509
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 2: tenor to his friendship with Bobby Kotick. In May of

510
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 2: that year, Pierce told Epstein that he had plans to

511
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 2: purchase what was at the time the largest bitcoin exchange

512
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 2: on Earth, Mount Gox. Now this is a side story

513
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: from a larger, much funnier story, because mount gox was

514
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 2: for years the place to go if you were new

515
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 2: to crypto and looking to get into it. Right, if

516
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 2: you wanted to get started with bitcoin or whatever, mount

517
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 2: gox is probably where you were starting. And mount gox

518
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: got its name from its original purpose, which was it

519
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: was a place to sell and trade magic the gathering cards.

520
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: Mount gox stands for Magic the Gathering online exchange. Right,

521
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 2: they started going by mount gox when the slightly more

522
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: sensible libertarian crypto enthusiasts pointed out that like, hey, regular

523
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: people don't want to or their life savings at a

524
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: business run by people who sell magic cards for a living. Right, Like,

525
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 2: that's not really like a bank. It doesn't give a bank.

526
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 4: I could have been called the chaos Orb. So I

527
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 4: guess it could have been called.

528
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: The chaos Orb. Yeah, I mean we're further along on

529
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 2: our decline now. Per an article on the website protest

530
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: dot com by caspanc quote Epstein, who was unfamiliar with

531
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: the exchange, asked if it had been seized by the

532
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: US government. It hadn't. The purchase had never occurred, and

533
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 2: in April of twenty fourteen, it was revealed that mount

534
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 2: gox had lost the majority of its users' money. All

535
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 2: of the money in mount Gox gets stolen, right, the

536
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 2: whole bank gets stolen because again the magic the gathering

537
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: online exchange is a bad place to keep your savings.

538
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's fine though not regulated. No FDI not at

539
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 4: all regulated.

540
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: Baby, we don't need an FDN. See, we don't need that.

541
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: That's big government. Well we'll talk about why that's fundy.

542
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 2: But what's really what's funny immediately here is that even

543
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: after the whole bank bank gets stolen, Pierce doesn't give

544
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 2: up acquiring mount Gox. He tries after it collapses to

545
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 2: buy it, and he starts his initiative called Gox Rising,

546
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 2: which like, why are you tied to the magic the

547
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 2: gathering bank, that god that lost everything? Like why are

548
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: you invested in continuing that journey?

549
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 4: Brock?

550
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 2: Is it just the name Mount Gox is so appealing

551
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: to you? I don't get it.

552
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 4: I mean, look, brand recognition, you know, the.

553
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: Brand recognition is that place that lost everyone's money?

554
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 4: But yeah, but not anymore. Yeah, we couldn't possibly lose

555
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 4: it twice.

556
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it happened twice. That's crazy, So you should The

557
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 2: fact that Pierce still thinks this is a good idea

558
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: should tell you something about Pierce, And the fact that

559
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: Epstein continues to treat this kid as genius should let

560
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 2: you know that Jeffrey Epstein was not nearly as intelligent

561
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 2: as he gets credited with being. Sometimes the same month

562
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: Brock started trying to buy Mount Gox, Epstein reaches out

563
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: to his friend Bill Gross, who is the co founder

564
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: of a major investment management company Pimco, about an exciting

565
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 2: new crypto project that Brock was working on. And this

566
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: is the project that he gets involved with really after

567
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: Mount Gox, and it's called Tether Have you ever heard

568
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 2: of the cryptocurrency Tether.

569
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 4: Yes, I think I have some. I don't remember why.

570
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: It's prominent people know about it. And the idea behind tether.

571
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: You brought up the FDIC earlier that like, oh, the

572
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: whole bank got stolen. Maybe that's a good idea that

573
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 2: the regular financial system ad Tether is Brock. I mean,

574
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: Brock is one of the guys behind tether. Tether is

575
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: kind of the attempt to add sort of an FDIC

576
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 2: type deal to crypto. It doesn't work the way the

577
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: FDIC does, but the idea is it's a way to

578
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 2: make cryptocurrency less dangerous and volatile. Right, Tether is what's

579
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: supposed to be a stable coin. That's the idea.

580
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 4: I say, I think the only reason I have any

581
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 4: cryptocurrency is to play quasi legal international digital poker.

582
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 2: Of course, Andrew, So the idea behind Tether is that

583
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: it's what's called a stable coin. Normal crypto is way

584
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 2: too volatile to be a good store of value, right,

585
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: Like you don't want to store your savings something could

586
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: be worth zero tomorrow.

587
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 4: Right.

588
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: Tether was ostensibly pegged to the US dollar, and so

589
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: basically the idea is that like it's backed up by

590
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: real money, right, so we can't it can't become worth nothing,

591
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: And as a result, tether is today the most successful

592
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: and the largest stable coin. But the fact that what

593
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: it's supposed to be and what it actually is are

594
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: two different things. Because the idea is that tether is

595
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: pegged to the dollar, but that's not even even on

596
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: its face real, because tether is meant to actually be

597
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: fifty percent backed by cash or cash equivalents. Right now.

598
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: Obviously banks don't have as much cash on hand as

599
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 2: they have people with money invested in the bank or

600
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: money in the bank, right, and that's why we have

601
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: the FDIC. Right, if your bank goes bust, the FDIC

602
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: will reimburse at least for no, I think it's up

603
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: to a quarter a million dollars in an account or

604
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: something like that, but they'll reimburse your losses.

605
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 4: Right.

606
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: The government is saying, if the bank fucks up, you're

607
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: not screwed as a regular person because there's an FDIC

608
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 2: backed bank. Tether doesn't really work that way, but they're

609
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 2: kind of trying to make people think that it works

610
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,479
Speaker 2: that way. Right that like no, no, no, like this

611
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 2: is bank banks don't have fifty percent of their assets

612
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: backed by cash er equivalents. Right, So Tether's actually more

613
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: realistic than a bank, right. And the reality is there

614
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 2: have been like pseudo bank runs on Tether, and at

615
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: times people behind Tether have just refused to redeem the

616
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: cash value of their cryptocurrency because that's what they could do,

617
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: that to stop a bank run, right, which is also

618
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 2: something they get to do because they're not a bank. Right.

619
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 2: It's you're just throwing money to some fucking freaks who

620
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 2: are gonna do what they want with it.

621
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, some racists are holding your money. Right.

622
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: Tether would prove though, to be a very wise financial

623
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: bet for Brock. The company is profitable at this moment, right,

624
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: and it's made lot of money over the course of

625
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: its lifetime. I'm sure he did very well on this.

626
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 4: Now.

627
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 2: Brock is not the creator of the idea behind tether.

628
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: That would be a guy named J. R. Willett, but

629
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: he co founds the company and initially calls it real

630
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: Coin when it launches in July of twenty fourteen. In

631
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, tethers surpassed bitcoin and trading volume, and it

632
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: is currently tied to about half of all bitcoin sales,

633
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: even though The Wall Street Journal has reported on Tether

634
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 2: increasingly showing up in cases of money laundering and the

635
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 2: financing of terrorist groups. In twenty twenty one, the Commodity

636
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: Futures Trading Commission announced that Tether was not in fact

637
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: fully backed by real currency, which sparked a sell off.

638
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: The CFTC ordered Tether to pay forty one million dollars

639
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: for violations of the Commodity Exchange Act. Now I've left

640
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: into the future, passed the life span of Jeffrey, just

641
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: to make it clear. This was a shady business from

642
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: the beginning, right, This is never a good business.

643
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 4: Like all this shit, yeah, of course.

644
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, like all of this shit. So Epstein leans

645
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 2: into this fact right in his email to Gross because

646
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: he's trying to talk a finance guy into getting on

647
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: the crypto board.

648
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 4: Here.

649
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: Gross is the guy who works at PEMCO who's trying

650
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 2: to get to invest in the idea that becomes Tether,

651
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: and Epstein acknowledges in this email that there are issues

652
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: with cryptocurrency. The good is that bitcoin uses an algorithm

653
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 2: to limit supply, unlike the variable of gold or other commodities. However,

654
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: two main issues one the government doesn't like it. Money laundering,

655
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: money transmitting, aiding, and abetting all types of crimes too.

656
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: All transactions are arguably taxable and therefore extra tricky. The

657
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: Bitcoin guys came to see me early in the process

658
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: and made it clear they were all willing to go

659
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: to jail for their ideas. I'm not there is a

660
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 2: way to do it, but it turns the bitcoin model

661
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: on its head. Talk to you soon. This is argument

662
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 2: for tether, right. But what's interesting to me in that

663
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: is him saying the Bitcoin guys came to see me

664
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: early in the process and made it clear they were

665
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: all willing to go to jail with their ideas. We

666
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 2: know he's in touch with Gavin. We don't know who

667
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 2: else necessarily, I mean, we will talk later. There's other

668
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: guys that Bitcoin's attached to. But this is some more evidence,

669
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: at least that he wants other people to think he's

670
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: really maybe he's lying about this, right, But also we

671
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: know he was talking to Gavin, we know he's in

672
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: touch with a number of these guys, and we know

673
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: that they're talking ideologically about what this means to each other.

674
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: So I don't really think this is a lie. This

675
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: seems consistent with other things we have evidence of, right,

676
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 2: and it's further evidence that Jeffrey is an influential person

677
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 2: in this period of development for bitcoin and cryptocurrency as

678
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 2: a whole. Right now, obviously we don't. This doesn't mean

679
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: that he was like making big final decisions on bitcoin,

680
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 2: but it means that he's he's got some influence with

681
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: the people doing it right, and that there's not no

682
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 2: reason for that. As we'll talk about in twenty fourteen,

683
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 2: Epstein helps brock Pierce in could deal with Noble Bank

684
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 2: to create a Puerto Rico based company that would act

685
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 2: as the real money bank for Tether, right like, this

686
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 2: is the actual bank that's going to provide the cash

687
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 2: that's supposed to he backs up this stable point. This

688
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: further establishes Epstein as a foundational figure in the history

689
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: of crypto because Tether, as I noted, is a very

690
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: significant cryptocurrency. And Epstein not only is he advising peers

691
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: and the beginning stages of Tether becoming a thing, but

692
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: he helps make a deal with the bank that acts

693
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 2: as like the the backing for Tether. He's important in

694
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: this right and this is the particularly the stage of

695
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: crypto development he's a part of. Is not the initial

696
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 2: stage where you have these guys like he talks about,

697
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 2: who are willing to go to jail for these weird

698
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 2: libertarian ideas they have. Right, we don't have to You

699
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 2: don't have to like or respect what they see to

700
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: be Like, oh, a lot of these people will, right. Yeah,

701
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 2: they really wanted to weaken the power of the state

702
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 2: in the Federal Reserve by decoupling currency from the government, right,

703
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: And that's they were willing to go to prison for it.

704
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 2: There are guys like that in the early history of crypto.

705
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: Epstein comes in and has his influence in the stage

706
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: of crypto in which it starts slowly trying to replicate

707
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 2: the features of the real financial system in order to

708
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 2: achieve widespread adoption. Right, Tether is a piece of this.

709
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 2: It's an acknowledgement that like, this is way too volatile,

710
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: too many people are losing money. We need something that

711
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 2: we can at least market as a safe cryptocurrency that's

712
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 2: backed up by cash.

713
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 4: Right.

714
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 2: So that's what Epstein's involvement in cryptos during the period

715
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 2: in which it's starting to take on, it's at least

716
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 2: starting to dress up in the drag of a real financial.

717
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 4: System trappings of actual money, right, exactly, exactly, digital lottery

718
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 4: ticket right.

719
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 2: Right, as opposed to the thing my friends used to

720
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 2: buy drugs in two thousand and nine with Eagle right.

721
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 2: And again, part of the point the idea behind tether

722
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 2: is we want to make rich people feel comfortable to

723
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 2: put their money into crypto, right, so other crypto millionaires

724
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 2: can cash out using the real money they put in.

725
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: So brock piercingly like, that's that's why you want the

726
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: real money, right, That's why Teather's valuable.

727
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 4: Pyramid scheme, the puremid needs to be at the base.

728
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 2: This is safe. Put your money in, then we cash

729
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 2: out our holdings to get real money.

730
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

731
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 2: In twenty fourteen, Epstein put three million dollars of his

732
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: own money into an investment in a new bitcoin trading exchange, Coinbase,

733
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: founded by the Stevens brothers. Bradford Bart Caspiance writes, perhaps

734
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 2: most embarrassing about the Epstein Coinbase investment is that they

735
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 2: knew who had put the money in there to purchase shares.

736
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: As Pierce rushed to get the deal closed, he shared

737
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: one awkward, hurried email with Epstein. I need permission to

738
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 2: let the founder know who you are.

739
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 4: Right.

740
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 2: So Epstein is putting this money into fund Coinbase, which

741
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 2: is like Pierce is helping to broker this deal to

742
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: provide the basic funding to get Coinbase off the ground.

743
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: And Pierces as he's communicating with the people he's working

744
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: with a Coinbase realizes Epstein is a convicted sex criminal.

745
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: And if I get these people to invest in a

746
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: company that he's a major investor in and I don't

747
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 2: let them know, that could be fraud.

748
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 5: Right.

749
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: You can't convince them to partner with you in a

750
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 2: major venture and not let them know that one of

751
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 2: the people funding the company is a convicted pedophile. It's

752
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: kind of important, right, And Epstein gives his permission, So

753
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 2: Brock lets the Coinbase people know that Jeffrey Epstein, who

754
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: by this point it's been years since his conviction for

755
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 2: child sex trafficking, is one of the funders. And the

756
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: Coinbase people are like, yeah, that's fine with us, right,

757
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: cool stuff. And Coinbase is the new mount Gox, that's

758
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: the big exchange people get into now when they're starting

759
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 2: in crypto, right, yeah, yeah, yeah stuff.

760
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 4: There do they still have Super Bowl ads? I guess

761
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 4: we'll find out.

762
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 2: I don't think they're doing Super Bowl that ads anymore,

763
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 2: but they're still around something. Yeah yeah, that Matt Damon

764
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 2: run money ran out though. But you know who does

765
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: have the money to hire Matt Damon. Not the sponsors

766
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 2: of this show. Maybe us. If you buy enough of

767
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: the products that advertise on our show, Sophie and I

768
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 2: might get the money to bring Matt Damon onto the show.

769
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 2: And I know that's what all of our listeners have

770
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 2: been clamoring for all you dame heads out there.

771
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 4: Oh I'm really mad.

772
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: I really just want to take this as an excuse

773
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: to talking about ben Affleck back tattoo again.

774
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 2: I'll always talk about ben afflex back tattoo.

775
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: I know it's great.

776
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: Let's all think about that while these ads run. We're

777
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 2: back and woay, I sure love ben afflex back tattoo

778
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 2: of Phoenix.

779
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: Ben af Back well done. Yeah yeah, that was relaxing

780
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: for me, to be honest.

781
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: In June of two thousand and four, This part's not

782
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 2: going to be relaxing, Sophie, because in June of twenty fourteen,

783
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein asked Brock Pierce if he knew the Winklevoss twins.

784
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: Of course, those weird looking fuckers show up this I

785
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 2: know now, the winkle Vi, if you're not familiar, were

786
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: the guys who allegedly Mark Zuckerberg maybe stole the Facebook

787
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 2: idea from and then they get hardcore into crypto after

788
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 2: suing Mark Zuckerberg, I think several times. So they get

789
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 2: really into crypto, and like every celebrity who gets really

790
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 2: into crypto, they're totally not a scam crypto product eventually

791
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 2: gets sued by the SEC right now. Thankfully, the winkle

792
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 2: v were intelligent enough to donate heavily to Donald Trump's

793
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 2: reelection campaign, and per tech Crunch, quote also backed his

794
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 2: family's business ventures, which means his family's crypto grifts. So

795
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 2: on January twenty fourth, twenty twenty six, just a few

796
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: days before I started work on these episodes, the SEC

797
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 2: dropped their lawsuit against Gemini, the crypto exchange founded by

798
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 2: the Winklevoss twins.

799
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 4: Right cool, So I love that.

800
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Pierce replies that he does know the Winklevoss twins,

801
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: because of course he does, and Epstein says, okay, I'm

802
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 2: gonna send Setlana to them to get a download of

803
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: the company that they're planning to launch. Right to get

804
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: a look at the business they're starting, Anna great, great question.

805
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 2: Sophie as Piance notes this was likely Svetlana Positiva, who

806
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: is a Russian citizen who was the daughter of a

807
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 2: former colonel in the Red Army. Her family lives in

808
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: an apartment building initially constructed for NKVD staffers, and per

809
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: the News England Herald, attended a Moscow university, once described

810
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: as an incubator for the KGB. She joined a modeling

811
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 2: agency as a young woman, one run by John Luke Brunell,

812
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 2: who has been alleged to have recruited girls and women

813
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 2: for Epstein.

814
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 4: Right.

815
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 2: Brunell is one of the people who is funneling young

816
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 2: models towards Jeffrey Epstein. Svetlana claims that she was just

817
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 2: a model interested in charitable endeavors and Epstein had a

818
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: lot of connections in that world and so they became friends.

819
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: Since Fetlana is alleged to have spent a lot of

820
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 2: time with Prince Andrew, which he denies, and Epstein clearly

821
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 2: connected her to other influential people, a lot of people

822
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: suspect that she was a Russian agent working as a

823
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 2: part of that government's influence operation to utilize Epstein as

824
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 2: a clandestine source. And this may have been true. There

825
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 2: are a number of connections to Epstein and Russian intelligence. Yeah,

826
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 2: and this this episode isn't primarily about that stuff, but

827
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 2: this may be one more example of it. We really

828
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 2: don't know, Like like I don't know, Maybeana was but

829
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 2: maybe maybe yeah. Yeah.

830
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 4: But also it is like kind of increasingly clear that

831
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 4: like no matter what like a foreign government might want

832
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 4: to do to us, it's pretty clear like our most

833
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: powerful citizens were willing to do it anyway. So it's

834
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 4: sort of just like like do you think alleged Wendy

835
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 4: Dang's behavior. She wakes up and he's like, they already

836
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 4: did everything I was ordered to make them do well.

837
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 2: And that's the part of the thing is that like this,

838
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: the most effective shit that the Russian government did using

839
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 2: its influence operations worked because of how fucked up the

840
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 2: US is. Right, they were they were like in pushing

841
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 2: and kind of like fanning the flames of like vaccine

842
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 2: denial and COVID denial and all this stuff. They were

843
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 2: just standing on the shoulders of American giants who started

844
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: that process here, right, No, you could usually see.

845
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 4: All of everyone at the whatever the the what is

846
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 4: whatever the KGB is now is just like it's this

847
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 4: is easy mode. This is destabilization on cheat codes because

848
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 4: they simply do it time and.

849
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 2: You just find the levers like Epstein who have the

850
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 2: connections you can push people in and you know, yeah, yeah,

851
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 2: good stuff. Now. Another fun thing that's happening at the

852
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: time is that Brock's friends are being sued over the

853
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 2: massive number of sexual assaults that are alleged to have

854
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: occurred during the parties that they threw. Right, So during

855
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 2: this period of time, this is like twenty fourteen or so,

856
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: Brock emails Epstein asking if he knows a lawyer named

857
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 2: Jeff Herman, quote, he is suing four of my friends.

858
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 2: Any dirt you have could prove helpful. Epstein described Herman as.

859
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 3: In writing yeah, yeah, yeah, a voice note at least

860
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 3: in an email, and Epstein responds, Yeah, Herman's a really

861
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 3: bad guy.

862
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 2: He represented several of the women who were accusing me

863
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 2: of six christs.

864
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, he sounds like a bad guy. Cool stuff.

865
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds like a bad guy, Jeff. So Brock and

866
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 2: Jeffrey's friendship grows closer and closer over this period of time,

867
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: and Epstein continues to expand his involvement into crypto separate

868
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 2: from Brock as well, he donates extensively to the MIT

869
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: Media Lab, which was run by a guy named Joi Edo.

870
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 2: Joichi Joi Edo was born in Kyoto, Japan, on June nineteenth,

871
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six. His family immigrated to Canada when he

872
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: was three, and then the United States, where they ultimately

873
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 2: settled in a suburb of Detroit. His father was a

874
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: research scientist and his mother was a secretary for an

875
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 2: early tech company that made photovoltaic products Ovonyx. He became

876
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 2: Timothy Leary's godson, which should tell you most of what

877
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: you need to know about the social and political dynamics

878
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 2: with which joy Eto was raised. The company founder huh yeah, yeah,

879
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: why old shit Right's child went to the company founder.

880
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: Stanford Ofchinsky kind of adopted Itto as a protege when

881
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 2: he was a little kid. He just sees this kid's

882
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 2: really into you know, technology and to code, into like

883
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 2: you know, engineering and stuff, and to the extent that

884
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 2: like he starts just kind of like talking with him

885
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: and helping him out and coaching him. He eventually hires

886
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 2: him to do actual work with actual scientists when Itto

887
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 2: is thirteen years old. Ofshinsky later claimed he was not

888
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: a child in the conventional sense, And the fact that

889
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 2: that's kind of the story for both brock Pierce and

890
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 2: joy Eto is kind of interesting to me that like,

891
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 2: these are both guys are going to be really tied

892
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 2: to Epstein in some very shady ways involving underage people allegedly,

893
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 2: and they're also both guys who don't have childhoods themselves. Interesting,

894
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 2: interesting dynamic, right the family maintained Eto's family maintained strong

895
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: connections to their Japanese and moved back to Japan when

896
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: he was fourteen. He returns to the US after he

897
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 2: graduates to get his computer science degree from Tufts University,

898
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 2: which is where he meets future eBay billionaire Pierre oh

899
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 2: midyar Ito drops out of two different colleges, ultimately because

900
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: he's frustrated with the stupidity of the higher education system.

901
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 2: Ito also becomes an influential part of the musical counterculture

902
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 2: in Japan. He runs nightclubs in Japan. He helps to

903
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: bring industrial music to the country, and he's also an

904
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 2: angel investor in Kickstarter, in Twitter, as well as a

905
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 2: shitload of other less well known ventures like photopedia.

906
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 4: He wins, are the only cool person you've talked about

907
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 4: so far.

908
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's not gonna stay cool for long. He wins

909
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: a twenty eleven Lifetime Achievement Award from the Oxford Internet

910
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 2: Institute for his achievements advocating for digital freedom. He writes

911
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: a monthly column for Wired, and he is a visiting

912
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 2: professor at Harvard. He does a lot of shit, and

913
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 2: then on April twenty fifth of twenty fifteen, he sends

914
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 2: an email to Jeffreypp asking for money. Edo is in

915
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 2: a tight spot. So the Bitcoin Foundation, which is the

916
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 2: organization that is paying the salaries of three of the

917
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 2: five developers for bitcoin, had just been declared bankrupt by

918
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: one of its board members. Right, so suddenly three of

919
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:21,959
Speaker 2: the five people who are actually developing and furthering Bitcoin's

920
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 2: evolution are no longer getting paid. And here's how Edo,

921
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 2: in his email describes their importance is He's sending this

922
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 2: to Epstein. The five core developers are like Linus Torvold's

923
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 2: of Linux. They decide what changes are made to the

924
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 2: core code, you know. Further informs Epstein that quote, many

925
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 2: organizations scramble to step into the vacuum created by the

926
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 2: Foundation and take control of the developers. He puts take

927
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: control in quotation marks. I don't know who he's quoting,

928
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: but I do know the fact that he puts emphasis

929
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,399
Speaker 2: on this is extremely important because he's framing this as

930
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: whoever is paying these developers has control over these developers,

931
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: who themselves control the future of bitcoin. Ito continues, We

932
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: moved quickly talking to all of the various stakeholders, and

933
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 2: the three developers decided to join the Media Lab. This

934
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 2: is a big win for us. And he's sending this

935
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 2: to Jeffrey. He's talking about this big win because Jeffrey

936
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 2: made this big win possible because the money that the

937
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 2: Media Lab uses to pay these developers comes from the

938
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: Epstein Foundation. Ito asks Jeffrey for this money. Jeffrey sends

939
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 2: him the money, and this email just quoted from is

940
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 2: Itto celebrating after they basically hire these developers, buy these developers, right, yeah,

941
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: you know.

942
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 4: By all the printing, the money printing, they buy like.

943
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly yeah, or at least yeah, the guys the

944
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,959
Speaker 2: keys to Fort Knox. Maybe yeah, well, or they buy

945
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 2: like the actual money printing machine and now they can

946
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: be turned to do whatever. And after kind of writing

947
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 2: everything that I've I've quoted from here, Itto emails Epstein

948
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 2: saying FYI used gift funds, that the money Epstein sent

949
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 2: him to underwrite this which allowed us to move quickly

950
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: and win this round.

951
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 4: Thanks.

952
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 2: And Epstein's response to this email is just Gavin is clever.

953
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: This is Gavin Andreson right. Again, very hard to say

954
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 2: how much contact he had with Epstein, but Epstein is

955
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 2: here responding to an email with Edo, who would have

956
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 2: been in contact with Gavin, basically saying Gavin came up

957
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 2: with the ideas to do that. That's kind of what

958
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 2: he's insinuating, right, And again it suggests that he and

959
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 2: Gavin are talking, that he and Gavin are strategizing about

960
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: the future of bitcoin. As he is definitely strategizing about

961
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: the future of bitcoin with joy Edo and providing the

962
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 2: money to pay for three of these five developers. That

963
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 2: is significant in the history of the development of bitcoin,

964
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 2: right yeah now. Patrick Riley a minor aspiring right wing

965
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 2: influencer who paid for a verified account on Twitter and

966
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 2: mostly seems to shill a cryptocurrency called XRP is going

967
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 2: to find I don't know if finally he's the first guy,

968
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 2: but he finds these documents in the Epstein files and

969
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 2: he's going to post about them, and that post is

970
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 2: going to cause some really interesting stuff to happen. Before

971
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 2: we get into the post he made about this revelation,

972
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 2: I want to give you a relevant example of the

973
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 2: previous kind of posts that Patrick L. Riley was making

974
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 2: on Twitter. Right, you just have an understanding of what

975
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 2: kind of man this is. Sophie'll have this up on

976
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 2: video form. This is from August tenth of twenty twenty five.

977
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 2: The unvaccinated are to people as XRP holders are to crypto.

978
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 2: Both are of the highest quality and endured a trial

979
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 2: that siphoned out the best of humanity. In fact, I

980
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 2: bet the XRP community has the highest ratio of non

981
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 2: vaxed in any crypto.

982
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:47,439
Speaker 4: What a cool guy.

983
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: So that's the kind of thinker Patrick Riley? Yes, God,

984
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 2: So after the most recent Epstein disclosure, Patrick makes a

985
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 2: post and he attaches the email chain that I have

986
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 2: been quoting from earlier to this post, and then he

987
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 2: writes at the time this letter was written, there were

988
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 2: around twelve thousand commits to Bitcoin's code. Today there are

989
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 2: forty seven thousand, five hundred and eighty three commits to

990
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 2: Bitcoin's code. This means that seventy four point seven nine

991
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 2: percent of the Bitcoin core development code was committed after

992
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein took over the de facto senior management role

993
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 2: as benefactor. He may not have been Setoshi, but he

994
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 2: was absolutely running the executive direction of Bitcoin on behalf

995
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 2: of Masad. What are the odds that there are back

996
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 2: doors built into Bitcoin's code at this point? Porbably about

997
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 2: one hundred percent, he spells it, Probably horribly these brain geniuses.

998
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 2: So this sets off a wave of upset that verged

999
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 2: on nausea from many crypto true believers. For the online right,

1000
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 2: the Epstein case is just about the most important thing

1001
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 2: on earth. But Bitcoin is also hallowed. It's a sacred

1002
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,280
Speaker 2: tool for freeing money from the clutches of the state.

1003
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 2: This post from crypto bitloord is a relevant example of

1004
00:51:56,520 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 2: many such responses to to Patrick's I know, I know

1005
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 2: seventy five percent of Bitcoin's code comes directly from Geoffrey

1006
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 2: Epstein's investments. We've basically funded an elite pedophile ring since

1007
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,879
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. I feel sick and like, yeah, you guys did,

1008
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: Like yeah, like Rightley's wrong about a bunch. For one thing,

1009
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 2: there's there's not evidence that the fucking massa that Epstein

1010
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 2: was running bitcoin on behalf of messade. He was really

1011
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 2: running bitcoin, but he was in a position to influence it.

1012
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 2: I don't think there's not evidence that there's back doors

1013
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: in bitcoin's code because you wouldn't need to. It's easy

1014
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: to track bitcoin, Like what would the backdoor even be?

1015
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 4: Right? Also, you don't you like you were funding a

1016
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 4: global pedophile ring by participating a bitcoin before Jeffrey Epstein

1017
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 4: was involved. That's the only thing it's good for.

1018
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's its primary purpose. So after these posts

1019
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 2: go viral, Bitcoin friendly press organs have to leap to

1020
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 2: defend their favorite coin, right so that they've got to

1021
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 2: after fucking Patrick post this and people start freaking out

1022
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 2: over like, oh my god, refunding the pedophile cabal. Jeffrey

1023
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 2: Epstein directed seventy five percent a bit, which also isn't

1024
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 2: really accurate, right, Yeah, it's just that seventy five percent

1025
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 2: of it was written after this, These developers are acquired

1026
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 2: by joy Edo's lab, which is and that acquisition is

1027
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 2: fund anyway. Whatever, Here's how the Bitcoin Academy website tried

1028
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 2: to smooth all this over the funded salaries for bitcoin

1029
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 2: core developers like Vladimir Wanderland during a cast strapped period

1030
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen to twenty seventeen. But here's the kicker. Epstein's

1031
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 2: money flowed through MIT systems directly to developers. As one

1032
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 2: x user bluntly put it, funding a university lab does

1033
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 2: not equal running bitcoin. And this is technically true. But

1034
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 2: when you pay the salary of three out of five

1035
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 2: people whose votes can determine the future of bitcoin, it's

1036
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 2: not unreasonable to say you might kind of run bitcoin, right,

1037
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 2: Like aso, it's not unreasonable to say you have influence

1038
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 2: in it. I'm not even saying he ran it, but

1039
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 2: he's in a position to influence it, right.

1040
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 4: And the technically true of it is like what a

1041
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 4: what a like grasp of that straw, dude, Like that's sure,

1042
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 4: I guess.

1043
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, he wasn't literally guiding every step bitcoin took, but

1044
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 2: he was in a position to guide the steps he

1045
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 2: wanted to and to make you know, yeah, and again

1046
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 2: The only counter argument here really is you're arguing that, like, well,

1047
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein probably just spent half a million dollars to

1048
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 2: get no benefit. He probably just sent that money out

1049
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 2: because he didn't want any power or influence in bitcoin, right, Yeah,

1050
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 2: that seems likely for Jeffrey Epstein.

1051
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 4: But also like like the way power works is like

1052
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 4: simply by not allowing your competitor to exert influence, you

1053
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 4: have exerted influence like her literally done true nothing right

1054
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 4: and as long as someone else that he didn't like

1055
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 4: wasn't doing something something.

1056
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 2: With it, doing a thing, that's doing a thing. Yeah. Yeah,

1057
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 2: Now this half assed defense of bitcoin continues. Email show

1058
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 2: Edo thanked Epstein for allowing us to move quickly and

1059
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 2: hiring bitcoin talent. But let's be real, MIT's DCI was

1060
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 2: one of many funders today, groups like Brink and the

1061
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 2: Human Rights Foundation transparently support bitcoin development. Epstein's role a

1062
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 2: shady donor, not a senior manager of bitcoin. And again

1063
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:26,280
Speaker 2: this is true and no one's surprise. Patrick Riley's tweet

1064
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 2: was nonsense. Again, but Epstein is clearly influencing the development

1065
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 2: of bitcoin in the mid odds. I don't see any

1066
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 2: other way of describing this, or at least he has

1067
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 2: influence on the men who decided how bitcoin would develop.

1068
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: Now.

1069
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 2: Bitcoin Academy notes that per the structure of the deal,

1070
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:46,760
Speaker 2: developers were unaware of the funding source, and maybe that's true.

1071
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 2: Quick audience pull, How many listeners think Jeffrey Epstein would

1072
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 2: give up a half million dollars if he didn't think

1073
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 2: it would impact what the developers he was paying for

1074
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 2: would do?

1075
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:57,919
Speaker 1: Quick pull?

1076
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 2: Right, Like, do you think that they've never learned where

1077
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 2: the money came from or who they had to keep happy?

1078
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 4: Or they wouldn't. But that's the thing. It's like, like

1079
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 4: I think these people are like, oh, there wasn't like

1080
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 4: a direct like meeting which just did it for He

1081
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 4: just did it for nothing.

1082
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, no, he did it because he

1083
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 2: wanted a benefit to make.

1084
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's just ways to communicate what you want.

1085
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 2: I know there's a degree which this is less satisfying

1086
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 2: because I can't say here's what he did specifically to

1087
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: influence the development of crypto. I just know that he

1088
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 2: put himself and spent a lot of money to be

1089
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: in a position where he could influence the development of crypto,

1090
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,760
Speaker 2: which means he was doing fucking something right, and even

1091
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 2: Bitcoin Academy couldn't entirely polish this turd. The file show

1092
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 2: Epstein to cozy up to crypto figures. In twenty fourteen,

1093
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,879
Speaker 2: he reportedly invested in Blockstream via joy Itdo's fund, though

1094
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 2: back clarifies Epstein had no direct or indirect ties to

1095
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 2: the company. Emails reveal Epstein pitching digital currency ideas to

1096
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 2: a Saudi advisor in twenty sixteen, but zero evidence exists

1097
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 2: of him touching bitcoin code. His real skill name dropping

1098
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 2: Satoshi's associates at parties, And this is true, his real

1099
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 2: skill is name dropping famous people. But that skill has

1100
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 2: value because people know Jeffrey can connect you to influential

1101
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 2: and wealthy people and to funding, which is what allows

1102
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 2: him to influence people, including the people who guided the

1103
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 2: development of bitcoin. Yeah, it's just there's not a counter argument.

1104
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein had the opportunity to significantly influence the development

1105
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 2: of bitcoin and cryptocurrency as all right.

1106
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 4: So fart matters. These two episodes have been weirdly like

1107
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 4: he would be an odious person genuinely without the sex traffic.

1108
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, like if he was not a pedophile

1109
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 2: he would still be a monster.

1110
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1111
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that is kind of the surprising thing to

1112
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 2: me because previously I'd been like, well, obviously he was

1113
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 2: a bad guy because he was a sex trafficker. But

1114
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 2: if he hadn't done any of the sex trafficking, I

1115
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 2: would have assumed he was just another asshole finance bro. No. No,

1116
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 2: he was unfortunately more influential than that.

1117
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1118
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 2: Alas anyway, that's uh, that's gonna do it for part

1119
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 2: to it.

1120
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 4: Wow. I mean, as far as these go, this is

1121
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 4: this has been weirdly less stomach churning than I thought

1122
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 4: when you said we were going to be going through

1123
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 4: the Epstein files. I will say it a weird way

1124
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 4: because you.

1125
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 2: I mean, you're not. I'm trying to focus it on

1126
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 2: what I think is an interesting journey, which is how

1127
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 2: Epstein influences the development of micro transactions and video games,

1128
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 2: of cryptocurrency, and of like the burgeoning far right, which

1129
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 2: is more of what we're going to talk about in

1130
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 2: the last two episodes. I think that's really compelling. Obviously,

1131
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 2: the and we've done like four episodes on Nexteine where

1132
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 2: we focus just on the sex crimes we are we do.

1133
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 2: We've talked about a lot of alleged sex crimes in this,

1134
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 2: like he and Brock talking about girls and talking about girls.

1135
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,439
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's just not as much. You know, it's

1136
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 4: just odd to me that there's so much other stuff.

1137
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 4: I guess I just I don't know. I hadn't occurred

1138
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 4: to me, really.

1139
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think it didn't to a lot

1140
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: of people. He knew he was influential, but I wouldn't

1141
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 2: have guessed a lot of this stuff was going on, right, Like, no,

1142
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 2: it's not even surprising. It's just I wouldn't have It's

1143
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 2: just weird for him to have had an influence here,

1144
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 2: Like it makes sense, Like, oh, yeah, I get given

1145
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 2: the guy he was, why he got into far right stuff,

1146
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 2: why he was sharing all this racist ship that we'll

1147
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 2: talk about in the next episodes, why he wanted to

1148
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 2: get into bitcoin, all this stuff. It makes sense when

1149
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 2: you say it. But I just would I didn't guess

1150
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 2: it ahead of time, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I

1151
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 2: think I'm not surprised, but I'm like, oh fuck, uh, yeah,

1152
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 2: I didn't call that one.

1153
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just an interesting angle.

1154
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the Where's Waldo of evil villain.

1155
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 2: He's a where's the where's waldough of evil pedophiles?

1156
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 4: Kilroy?

1157
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 2: Yeah he's a Kilroy type dude. Well, no one knows

1158
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 2: Kilroy was here. Was like an early meme, but we

1159
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 2: don't really know, like why, like what it was about.

1160
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well well well.

1161
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: Well more next week for folks.

1162
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 2: Wow. Uh, Sophie, I do have to say, Uh, you've

1163
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 2: been You've been caught by the subreddit why breaking. Sophie

1164
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 2: is not a real person. Sophie is an advanced artificial

1165
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 2: intelligence built to serve the needs of the pod. We

1166
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 2: have this confirmed. It's in the White Papers proof Sophie

1167
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 2: Ray Lichtermann is an anagram for both AI policeman Thresher

1168
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 2: and America's hit Their phone is actually strong evidence. Sophie,

1169
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 2: I don't know. I haven't, I haven't I have a

1170
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 2: double checked. This could just be a lie. Probably is

1171
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:34,439
Speaker 2: a lie.

1172
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1173
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 2: I've done no work.

1174
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 4: That is my favorite part about conspiracy theorists in general

1175
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 4: is the amount of time they think people doing evil

1176
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 4: stuff spent anagramming.

1177
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 2: The amount of importance anagrams have to the global pedophile

1178
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 2: ely is really funny.

1179
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 4: Like, how do we see the actual correspondence of the

1180
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 4: global pedophil. They can't spell.

1181
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 2: They can't fucking spell these words.

1182
01:00:57,720 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 4: How are they gonna do it? Anagram?

1183
01:00:59,320 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 1: Ok?

1184
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jeffrey Epstein can barely use a keyboard.

1185
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: This is actually on the subreddit. I thought you were

1186
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: just there's forty three comments.

1187
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 4: Come on, guys, I.

1188
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 2: Know so, I'm sorry. I thought it was funny. God,

1189
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 2: good stuff. Andrew? Did you plug your pluggables yet?

1190
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 4: Sure? Did Starter Trek? I don't know. Thanks, thanks for

1191
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 4: having me. This is I won't. I cannot in good

1192
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 4: conscience say it's fun to be here, but it's not.

1193
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 4: We illuminated, but you are here. I have a pluggable

1194
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 4: touch crap touch crab. You know what I should actually say.

1195
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 4: Solidarity and Snacks is the mutual aid crew that I

1196
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 4: run with out here in Los Angeles. They're great folks.

1197
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 4: Solidarity and Snacks. You can find them.

1198
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, everybody, This has been Behind the Bastards,

1199
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 2: a podcast that you just listened to. Shame on you.

1200
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1201
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website hoole

1202
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: Zone Media dot com, or check us out on the

1203
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:06,160
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1204
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,360
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1205
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1206
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1207
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,560
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1208
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,600
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1209
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 1: love about forty percent of you, statistically speaking,