WEBVTT - Farming While Black 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:13.560 Um um, Welcome back to Point of Origin, the podcast 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:15.840 about the world of food from around the World. I'm 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:24.360 your host, Stephen Sadderfield. Okay, so this is a podcast 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.080 and you might not know that the voice emanating from 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:30.920 your speakers is that of a black man, and that 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.720 means many things. That has many implications, but one of 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.080 the big ones that I think about a lot is 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:40.920 the internal and external generational trauma of our relationship to land. 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:43.840 And for a long time, when I thought about land, 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.960 for me, it brought up feelings of anger and discomfort. 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:49.919 And in some ways that is still true because for 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:55.200 us so called African Americans, displacement and dispossession our stories 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:57.440 that come to many of us at a young age, 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:01.120 as told through members of our family or via lived 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:05.400 experience and at school. The stories of our bondage really 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:10.520 diminished the breadth of our experience and knowledge in American agriculture. 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.679 But with all things in relationship to nature, there is duality. 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:18.840 And the older I got and began to meet other 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:22.480 black friends from around the country, I started to adopt 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.399 a new story that was just as true and just 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:29.200 as easy to tell as the traumatic one, and that 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:34.279 is the story of black resilience, ingenuity, environmentalism and health. 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.440 Today we're talking to one of the sharpest minds in 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:43.080 the US on matters of food, justice and sovereignty, Leah Pennaman. 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.520 Leah is a farmer, author, activist. She is a co 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.160 founder and co director at Soul Fire Farm and Grafton, 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.360 New York. Her book Farming While Black, which came out 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:58.360 in two thousand eighteen, quickly became an indispensable handbook for 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:03.800 all things land reclamation in sovereignty. It is an inspirational 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.640 guide and endlessly insightful as she is, as you will 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.720 soon hear. But first a man I deeply admire and 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.720 pleased to call a friend, my brother, Eugene Cook, who 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.160 is an urban farmer and educator of grow where you 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:23.320 are here in Atlanta, Georgia, and he is the very 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.280 worthy first in studio guest of our first season on 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:32.560 Point of Origin so today Point of Origin Farming While Black, 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:44.359 Part one of two. First up, Eugene Cook, Welcome back 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.880 to Point of Origin Today on our special episode Farming 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.880 While Black, we have one of my favorite black farmers, 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.239 Eugene Cook, from my hometown of Atlanta, Georgia, who is 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:01.639 an agroecologist and also founder of Grow Where you are. 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.920 Thank you for joining us live in studio. Are first 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.960 ever in studio guests for Point of Origin. Thanks for 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.560 coming through Man so great to be here. Thank you brother, definitely. 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:16.160 So we had the opportunity to meet last year and 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.639 I got a chance to see you in your element 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:23.760 on the land, moving through different plants, with ease, with knowledge, 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:28.600 with grace. Can you tell us how you began on 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.840 your journey as a farmer? First, I want to say 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.880 the title of the show is great Stephen like Point 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.760 of Origin. Yeah, you didn't mention that on the whole 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.120 way up, but this is beautiful. It's poignant too, because 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:46.840 my introduction to food, really my introduction to the understanding 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.080 of where food comes from, was through my parents and 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:55.839 my maternal grandparents, my mother's parents, who are farmers in Oklahoma. 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:57.680 We would go to that farm. I was born and 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.440 raised in California, so we'd go to that farm every 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.400 couple of years during the summertime, sometimes in other seasons 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.800 as well, and I would see what it was like 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.760 to manage large acreage of farms, which was primarily in 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.480 commodity crops, grains and soybeans and things, but then close 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.640 to the house where all the farm animals were, all 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:23.000 the home garden, and the variety of the food, the 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:27.039 freshness of the food, all of that was put into me. 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:31.520 Experientially talked about as well, but mainly experientially put into me. 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:34.719 And I was required to keep a garden at my 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.279 parents home in California on the side of the house. 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:42.200 Same thing, just fresh peppers, tomatoes, corn, nothing big, nothing major, 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:45.880 but had the clear understanding that, oh, food comes from 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.560 the soil, and if it's going to be right outside 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:52.159 my house, I'm obviously gonna keep it as clean as possible. 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.640 So that was just built into me. And then the 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.640 journey into farming came much later when I was becoming 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:04.359 a father for the first time. In and Samantha and I, 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:06.880 the mother of my oldest son, We were in a 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.240 space in Pomona. We were running a house and Pomona 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.880 that had a small backyard big enough to grow food 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.320 in for a small family. And right when I knew 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:17.000 that she was pregnant, I just went out there and 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.880 started planting food. Didn't even really think about it. She 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.679 and I had planted a plum tree and a lemon 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.600 tree prior to that. But we're in Pomona, California, and 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:27.800 there's just food growing. And people came over for a 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.680 birthing celebration and they saw all this food and they said, 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:33.359 you should teach people how to grow food. I was like, 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:34.760 I don't know how to do. I'm not in a 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.120 position to teach anybody. And they said, well, you got 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.240 more food than we have growing in our backyard. And 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:44.479 that's when it really started to click to me that yeah, 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.680 we should utilize the land close to us to ensure 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:55.440 that we can eat. Do you remember what your grandparents 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.640 in Oklahoma, what their relationship to the land was. Oh, yeah, 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:04.640 so that's my grandmother and grandfather Patterson. For them, the 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:09.480 land was their universe because they were on eighty acres 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.240 in an area that had been what they call Indian territory. Right. 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.720 My grandfather has really strong indigenous bloodlines here to the 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:23.600 United States, mixed with the African bloodline, and my grandmother 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.520 has more of the mix of the African bloodline and 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.800 the European bloodline. So for me to come through my 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.800 mother and then with my father's genetics coming from Alabama 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.719 with all that strong African and indigenous bloodline. The land 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:41.000 was just I mean, really it was the universe. That 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.320 my grandfather explained to me, it was everything that he 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:50.200 valued was outside of his house other than his family members. 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.159 You know, he kept his home clean and he and 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:57.200 all of that. But what he actually valued was outside 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.880 of the house. It was all the experiences that have 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.320 but outside it was the sky. Being able to understand 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:05.320 what was coming and what had left by looking at 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:09.120 the sky, being able to keep track of time, by 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.520 seeing what was happening in the fields. They had dug 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.840 a pond, a pretty large sized pond, had fish in there, 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.400 There were ducks, there were chickens, there were pigs there. 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.440 You know, there was just life. Yeah, it was just 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.640 all around. So I would be coming from skateboarding in 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.320 Cerritos and Compton and Lakewood in California and go on 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:32.160 a summer vacation to my grandparents house and just be 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:33.800 out where I could stand in the middle of the 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.320 gravel road, look one direction as far as I could see, 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:38.520 the other direction, as far as I can see, there's 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:45.240 nothing but the earth, no traffic, no stop signs. So 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.240 for them, the land was their university, was how where 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.280 they spent their time, their lifetime was spent on a 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:57.080 piece of land. And is that land still a part 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.880 of your family? It is, there are parts of it 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.400 are part of the family still. Yeah, there's still relatives 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.679 down there living on it, relatives living in the house. Yeah. 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.720 The fertility of it, I don't know too much about. 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:14.720 And because it had been agribusiness farmed for years and 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.840 years and years towards the end. Yeah, when you had 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:22.280 this epiphany. What was your firstborn's name, Cush Cush, So 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.960 when Cush was born, I mean you mentioned that was 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.800 kind of an impetus for you. But did you move 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:31.080 into farming like full on right away or was it 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.040 a gradual process. It was a gradual because still we 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.800 were I was in southern California. So it went from 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:41.760 there to working in partnership with nonprofit organizations doing community work. 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.520 And this is around two thousand one at the time, 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.840 and I was working with a project at the Watts 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.360 Labor Community Action Coalition, the w l c a C. 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.600 And we were doing a garden instruction program, but it 0:08:56.640 --> 0:09:00.640 was really based on wrapped around poetry and art and communication, 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:02.880 and gardening was one of the pieces that the youth 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.040 had to do so working with teenage youth, all black 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.760 and brown youth, a lot of Latino UM and Latino 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.800 X youth, and we were planting food in these community gardens. 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.200 And then people said they were watching what I was doing, 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.280 and different residents came and say, you need to meet 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.760 this brother named a Donna Jaw. He's doing work over 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:21.400 at Crenshaw High School. You need to meet him. You 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.679 need to meet him. And I was like, okay, well, 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.199 you know how do I meet him? And I ended 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:28.800 up ended up going to Crenshaw High School going to 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:30.280 the back. That's all people told me. You go to 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.240 the back of Crenshaw High School and there's a big 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:34.640 old garden. Just go back there and look for him. 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:36.880 Went back there, I started yelling his name. He never 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.240 came out. Finally I got a call on my phone 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.280 and it was him and he said, people say, you're 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.199 looking for me. You don't need to see me. You 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:46.040 need to see Dana. You don't need to talk to me, 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:47.800 You need to talk to Dana. So he said, come 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.160 out to Crenshaw you can meet Dana. And I met 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.559 sister Dana out there and I was in a food forest. 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.000 It's a three quarter acre agricultural space at a high 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.320 school in Los Angeles, calip Conia. There was designed to 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:05.040 teach agriculture back in the I guess probably the early 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.000 seventies and then had just gone into not being used. 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:13.199 So in two thousand one, there were cherries, figs, chere 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:21.080 Maya's bananas, grape vines, avocados, zapotees like stuff I had 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:26.920 just never seen tasted. It was primarily a subtropical fruit 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:31.320 food forest with vegetable understory, broccolis and charred and spinach. 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.200 And that was when it really started. I started working 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.679 with him there on almost a daily basis. The I 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:42.040 was doing a contract work with a nonprofit that ran out. 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.000 I didn't have any more money. All types of different 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.680 things happened, evictions, all types of different things happened, and 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:51.600 I found myself living and studying with this teacher, and 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:56.080 my world has been transformed ever since. Yeah, man, well, 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.240 let's uh, let's talk about your world today. I mean, 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:03.560 I know we're skipped many years, but it's relevant because 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.880 the last time we talked, you were also talking about 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:13.400 bringing some of these skills and agriculture to high schools 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:17.160 here in Atlanta. So is that still part of your 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.600 your work here. Absolutely, we've had the good fortune of 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:25.120 partnering with There's a gentleman named Dr Charles Moore, so 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.640 he works with Emery and with Grady. He's an ear 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.880 nose and throat specialist and he had the experience of 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:38.080 seeing all this this hunger and health issues throughout Atlanta 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:43.120 and has implemented a sliding scale community clinic on his 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:47.800 own time, separate from working as a doctor, and through 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.959 that he contacted us and had us do some after 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.560 school programs, some summer camp programs with the youth, and 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.480 that helped us to solidify our curriculum. So now Grow 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:03.120 where you Are has a curriculum for food system immersion. 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.960 So it is about urban agriculture and the growing, but 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.079 it's also about what happens in the restaurants. It's it's 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:13.880 about how transportation is a part of the food system, 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.679 what happens in the stores, how things are marketed. And 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.520 since then we have partnered with a musician here in 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:25.640 Atlanta named Rory and Rory he has a initiative called 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:29.000 the Woods where he's been going around the country doing 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.880 performances in the woods or at at urban farms or 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:37.880 or even suburban farms to bring his fan base, his 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:42.160 music base out of the traditional music venues where there's 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.040 alcohol and violence is being talked about. He said, I 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.360 wanted people to be able to experience music in a 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.800 natural setting and on a farm. And so those are 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:53.960 the initiatives that we've been really rolling out because in 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:56.280 the school systems, we found that they have to deal 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:01.400 with a lot of administrative oversights and x spectations that 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.200 are not really as conducive to the way that we 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.520 like to teach. We like to bring in chefs, we 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.040 like the children to have a very self guided experience 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.160 inside of safe parameters. It's difficult to do that in 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.280 the school systems right now. Yeah, and and so did 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:22.840 doctor Moore have some personal experience that led them to 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:28.839 want to specifically invest in this education. Yeah, Specifically, what 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.839 I heard was that he had been driving to work 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.960 in a particular route normally, and he went a different 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.320 direction and found himself. You know, you're from Atlanta, you 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:43.280 can make a different turn and literally we're in a 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:50.000 whole another class of lifestyle, you know, the intense oppression 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:55.280 that is part of our experience as African people here 0:13:55.920 --> 0:14:01.040 under a colonial tyranny. It's still looks like it looks 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.000 all over the world. There are aspects of this city, 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.760 Atlanta that are like third world countries um as far 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:12.079 as it is with their facilities and cleanliness and and 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.319 all that kind of thing. And so he started seeing 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.199 some of these things and was blown away and wanted 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.800 to deal with the health issues immediately because he's a doctor. 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.240 And then after that he started doing a program called 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.040 Walk with the Doc where he would take walks on 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.080 Saturday morning into some of the nature preserves and show 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:33.840 people different plants that had healing properties. So after doing that, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.400 it kind of evolved into writing prescriptions for people that 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:42.040 would be green beans instead of a prescription for diabetes medication. 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.720 So did you fulfill those prescriptions? We did fulfill the 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.280 prescriptions if people came to the farmers market. More importantly, 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.040 we were working with the children of these people who 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:55.600 were getting these prescriptions and showing them this is how 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.280 we plant this, this is where it comes from, this 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.560 is how we maintain it after we grow it. It 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:02.440 can go a couple of different directions. We can take 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.400 it to this restaurant, or we can take it to 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.680 this store, or we can take it to the farmer's market. 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:08.760 And they experienced all of those. We took them to 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.040 farmers markets, had them do a produced tour with a 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.840 manager at Whole Foods, and of course different black owned 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:29.520 farms in the Atlanta area. I'm interested in the curriculum 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:34.560 that you've developed around trying to help these young people 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:39.040 have a more comprehensive view of the food system outside 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:44.360 of just growing food, because the two are very much 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.200 related but also quite different as well. Right, one is 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.560 just about your own personal power and agency on the land. 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:55.480 But can you say more about that curriculum why you 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.080 felt it was so important to bring in a more 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.840 holistic view of the food system them instead of just 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:04.760 how to grow food. Absolutely, our curriculum is called the 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.360 New Power Generation, and we were working with young people 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.040 at that time, they were about five years old to 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.120 about thirteen years old. So grow where you are as 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.680 a collective of growers who work in the food system 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.320 in different ways. So for example, Jovannah Johnson Cook, my 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:24.800 partner who helped to really give birth to the organization. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.320 She started as a grower and she now is a chef. 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.280 She has a food delivery business for mothers who have 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.280 just given birth and the families that are in that 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:39.040 space and time, and also for private schools here in Atlanta. 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.240 Then there's Nicole Blue who started as a grower and 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.040 also makes medicines. And then we have people like you're 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.200 familiar with Chef Mari Sella Vega who comes from a 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.600 family of growers and then and is focused on doing 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:55.320 her work in the restaurants. So we have all these 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.680 key people and members in our collective that have these 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:03.200 very specific perspectives and are also coming from a place 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:09.119 of being young entrepreneurial people, some on their own businesses, 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.399 some of them just move in a way that is 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.879 an entrepreneurial spirit and they bring that and add that 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.320 value to wherever they are, similar to the work that 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.080 you do. So we wanted them to see a broad 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.639 base of people working in the food system, and we 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:26.200 wanted them to understand that the reality is for us, 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:31.960 as as people who are creating our society, that the 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:36.119 reality is that we are going to move in multiple 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.800 systems almost no matter what kind of work we're gonna do, 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.040 because to have success, I mean, you may not have 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.679 thought you were gonna have to be a radio host, 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:47.119 you know what I mean. It might not have been 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.840 anything you were thinking about, or it maybe was something 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:51.919 you were thinking about and you could always see and 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.160 if it was like that for you, then we wanted 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.119 to be like that for the youth. We want the 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.200 youth to see Yet I may really like growing food, 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.960 but I also may have a really good charismatic way 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.359 of teaching and passing this on. The curriculum is about 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:12.159 showing people that from the food everything is born. Like 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.879 all these other industries are born from agriculture, but if 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.560 we know the growing part, most likely we can shift 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.439 through a lot of the other parts. The growing really 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:26.440 provides the deepest foundational relationship to the food. I think 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:30.879 it's so essential to to organize the curriculum in that 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:36.159 way as well, because of the pressures that heavily subsidized 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.359 and grow industrial food systems put on small farms and 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:44.440 growers that to just say, well, if you grow your 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.720 own then because it's not really that simple. R not 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.560 that simple. If it's not simple for what young white farmers, 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:52.960 then we can forget it. We have to tap into 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.720 the place that we're already familiar with, which is our creativity, 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:59.880 which is our improvisation, which is our our preference for collaboration. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.719 I mean like jazz music was created from the idea that, yeah, man, 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.680 I may be out of this world on this horn, 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.439 but I sound really good if I'm next to somebody 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.200 who's out of this world on piano at the same time. 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.440 You know what I mean. And so the collaboration and 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:20.919 the creativity is what for food sovereignty to be actualized 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.120 in the way that we're talking about, and for our 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.960 communities to come into a place of healing as well 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:31.400 as a place of abundance and safety. If we don't 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.000 know how to grow food, then we're like, we're denying 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.119 how this country was founded. And not just the black 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.360 part of the country. The entire country is founded on agriculture. Period. 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.479 All the wealth that we're still pushing around is agriculturally based. 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.640 So then why are farmers the lowest and the most 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:53.920 undervalued piece of that chain. It makes no sense. No, 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:57.200 the farming know it. No, it good nowhere the food 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.600 comes from, and then from there while out into the 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:39.960 future that you want to create. Welcome back to point 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.680 of origin. So tell us how you got to Atlanta 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.840 to begin with. Through my teacher aDNA Jaw from California. 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.280 We were working and we had hired a man named 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.080 Rashid Nury to help do some paperwork for some projects 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:58.359 that we were working on. And then from that point, 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.240 Rushi did a short trip in Africa, in West Africa 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:04.360 in Ghana, and when he was in Ghana, he met 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:08.960 three women from Atlanta, Mary Casey Bay, Jeane Billingsley Brown, 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.719 and Zena Stucky and they were talking about essentially the 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:17.119 idea of creating small, many farms throughout Atlanta that would 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.040 help to support a new food system. Because these women 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.920 were very informed on the toxicities of the current food 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:26.600 system and just the lack of access to some of 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.920 the things that they wanted and had getting them fresh. 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:32.159 So they talked and they were willing to invest. They 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:34.600 were willing to introduce us to their contacts. So Rashid 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:37.000 contacted me and said, Hey, if I go to Atlanta, 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:39.679 will you come and help me do this thing. I 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.040 talked it over with my teacher and I came in 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:45.800 two thousand and six to start truly living. Well. Yeah, 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:48.560 let's talk a little bit about that, because you have 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:53.879 the right approach to growing in this modern world, given 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:57.720 the many constraints that come with land use and all 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:01.280 the rights and bureaucracy and so on. How have you 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:05.360 managed to grow food in an urban area with all 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:10.200 of that, all those restrictions. It's We're in an interesting 0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:13.560 place because Atlanta, from what I've come to know from 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.320 people who don't live here and who are involved in 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:20.440 urban agriculture and other cities, Atlanta is very much focused 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:23.000 on by other cities as a somewhat of a model 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:28.040 for urban agriculture. So there's multiple kind of models that 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:30.200 we've had to work with, but it's always comes down 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.119 to land ownership. Right now, Atlanta is one of the 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:36.159 few cities that has an Urban Agricultural Commissioner, and the 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:40.680 idea is to involve urban agriculture more in the planning 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:43.560 of the city as well as well. I shouldn't. I 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:45.840 don't know for sure, but I know that food access 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.639 was a major point for the previous mayor. His idea was, 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:54.080 I want people to have access to fresh food in 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:57.240 every half mile throughout the city of Atlanta. So it 0:22:57.240 --> 0:22:59.640 could be a community garden, it could be an urban 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:03.040 food forests, it could be a farm. The difference that 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:08.280 I'm experiencing because Grower you are is a social enterprise, 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:12.320 So we're a business that seeks to do plenty of 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:17.560 social good, both ecologically and with the general public. Yet 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:20.960 it's different than a community garden. So there's a lot 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:25.440 of investment happening in community gardens because community gardens are 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:28.760 spaces where the land is still owned most of times 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:32.840 by the city, remains in that way, and they're not businesses. 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:35.199 No matter how much food has grown there, you're not 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:37.639 really allowed to sell it from there and make a 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:40.679 business off of it. So there's a lot of folks 0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:43.440 who are have other positions in the food movement who 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:47.480 will support community gardens, but NOE won't necessarily support urban 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:51.320 farms or urban farmers, because one is about creating this 0:23:51.400 --> 0:23:56.480 kind of public not really consistent food supply because community gardens, 0:23:56.480 --> 0:23:58.880 when it gets too hot, people stop doing it. When 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:01.560 it gets too cold, people's up doing it. They go away. 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:03.600 They get plowed up every spring so they can start 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:05.520 new and and it does a good thing for the 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:08.520 feeling of the people, but it's not food security and 0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:13.120 it's definitely not food sovereignty. As urban farmers, we are 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:17.120 more inclined to be working towards food sovereignty, and that 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:21.639 means business models that function if the current agrib business 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:26.040 food business models don't function and are not sustainable without subsidies. 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:29.920 Then when we start to develop a city, a new 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:33.320 city that wants to incorporate urban agriculture and urban farming, 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:36.080 then we've got to look squarely at that because people 0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:39.000 will come to us and say, is it a sustainable 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:42.920 business model? And oftentimes the people who ask that are 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:49.760 working in nonprofits, which you feel what I mean, and 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:51.919 they're not business people. They don't have that experience as 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:54.320