1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Alson Media. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to It could happen here a podcast 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 2: about things falling apart in this week, podcast about Agenda 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 2: forty seven, Donald Trump's plan for you know, what to 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 2: do if he winds up winning re election and being 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 2: back in all of our lives in the sense of 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: having political power as opposed to just back in all 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: of our lives, because he never shuts the hell up, 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: and neither do any of the journalists who report on him. 10 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: So we're talking about that all week. You've been listening 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 2: to the episodes put together one of my colleagues. Today, 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,959 Speaker 2: I'm going to be talking about Trump's border policy, particularly 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 2: has promised to declare war on the cartels and use 14 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 2: the United States military to attack them. Before we get 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: into it, I do want to note, if you notice 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: this sounds a little bit different. I am in Texas currently. 17 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 2: My father has leukemia. He's being treated for on chemo 18 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 2: in the hospital. Just finished came out actually, but anyway, 19 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: I had to fly down to Texas last minute, and 20 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: I'm not recording this in my normal space. We should 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: be back to normal, you know, very soon here. But 22 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: I just wanted to explain if if you think it 23 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: sounds different. It's not me fucking something up. I just 24 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 2: had to fly across the country. So let's talk about 25 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: Agenda forty seven and the cartels. Back in two thousand 26 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: and eight, when I was still a baby and in 27 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 2: fact in Dallas, Texas, as i am right now, I 28 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 2: worked as the secretary for a financial planner named Al Jones. 29 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 2: I was bad at this job, and I didn't really 30 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: know much about financial planning then, but I have since 31 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: come to suspect that Al was not great at his 32 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: job either. The first sign at this might have been 33 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: the fact that when I took the job, Al got 34 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: excited because I mentioned during our little interview that I 35 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 2: wanted to be a writer someday and he was like, 36 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: I'm a novelist, and I was like, or a financial planner. 37 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: And then he hands me a copy of his self 38 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 2: published novel Operation night Watch. Now, the plot to this 39 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 2: motherfucker was barkingly mad. Spurred on by an epidemic of 40 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: inner city violence. The government sent in a team of 41 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 2: special Forces guys to take on the criminals. I think 42 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: it's the government who sends them. They may just be 43 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: a bunch like Green Berets and Navy seals who decide 44 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: to fight crime on their own. It's been a while 45 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: since I read the thing. I'm trying to have a 46 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: hardcover delivered to me, but there's not a lot of 47 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 2: them left, so you may get to hear more from 48 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: this book. But anyway, the idea of this is that, like, yeah, 49 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: there's all of these very much racially coded criminals in 50 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 2: the streets making life too dangerous for regular people, these 51 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: evil drug dealers and robbers, and we just need our 52 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: special forces guys to murder them, right. There was a 53 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:53,839 Speaker 2: lot of uncomfortable fetishization of brutal violence from this very 54 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 2: mild mannered seeming dude who mostly held meetings at Texas 55 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: roadhouses with old people to try to get them to 56 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 2: invest in annuities or whatever a split annuity is. I've 57 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: since forgotten so again, obviously, even at that point in time, 58 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 2: mostly having lived either in the country the suburbs, I 59 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 2: had spent enough time in Dallas to know that his 60 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 2: description of inner city life was not precisely accurate. But 61 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: what I remember most about the book is that it 62 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: wasn't even really a story. It was and talking to 63 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: Al made this clear. A literal description of the policy 64 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: he wanted to see. The thin characters that he included 65 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: in the story were basically just there to help dress 66 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: up what was again a policy proposal, and that policy was, 67 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: we should use the US military to kill quote unquote 68 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: drug dealers. Right now, over the last fifteen years or so, 69 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: mainstream Republican policy has actually caught up to my old boss, 70 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: and now President Trump has included in Agenda forty seven 71 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: a promise to invade Mexico with US special forces. That's 72 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: not the extent of the promise. We will be talking 73 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: about that all through this fun episode. On Deceiver twenty second, 74 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, the Trump campaign uploaded a page titled 75 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: President Donald J. Trump declares War on Cartels to his 76 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: campaign website. And I don't know about you, guys, I'm 77 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 2: pretty sick in the motherfucker's voice, So I'm just gonna 78 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: read how this opens. But if you go to the website, 79 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: you can listen to him say this if that makes 80 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 2: you happier. The drug cartels are waging war on America, 81 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 2: and it's now time for America to wage war on 82 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 2: the cartels. In this war, Joe Biden has cited against 83 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 2: the United States and with the cartels. They're making more 84 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 2: money than they've ever made before. Times ten. There's never 85 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: been anything like it. They're major, major companies. They're bigger 86 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: than even some of our biggest companies. Biden's open border 87 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: policies are a deadly betrayal of our nation. He's definitely 88 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 2: got a unique diction. Yet you know, Trump came up 89 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,679 Speaker 2: with that one more or less on his own. Didn't 90 00:04:58,720 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: need to be scripted. 91 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: Now. 92 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: Trump goes on to state after this that when he 93 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 2: is president again, the United States government will treat cartels 94 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 2: the same way they treated Isis, which you might recall 95 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: still exists and recently carried out an attack in Russia. 96 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 2: Republicans might note that this attack was by Isis k 97 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 2: or Isis Kruson, which is true. And boy, howdie does 98 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: Afghanistan come back into the story in a little bit. 99 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: So just keep that in mind. But first let's continue 100 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 2: with Trump. He claims that under his presidency we had 101 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: a quote very very strong border and in fact, the 102 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: strongest border in the history of the country, and quote 103 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: drugs were at a low for forty five years. Now, 104 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: it's important to fact check things that both Joe Biden 105 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: and Donald Trump say the use the diction he uses 106 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: here does make fact checking slightly difficult. The strongest border 107 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,119 Speaker 2: kind of a meaningless term, right, But the claim about 108 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: drugs being at a low for forty five years can 109 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 2: be fact checked to some degree, although again his approach 110 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: to grammar makes it hard to tell what he's claiming here. Right, 111 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: is drugs at a low for forty five years? Mean, 112 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 2: like drug use is at a low, drug smuggling is 113 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 2: at a low? I don't know. He has made variations 114 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: of this claim often, though, including a note on his 115 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 2: campaign website in January twenty twenty three that under his presidency, quote, 116 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 2: drug overdose deaths decline nationwide for the first time in 117 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: nearly thirty years. So let's assume that that's kind of 118 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: what he meant to claim, that drug overdose deaths were 119 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 2: the lowest they've been for forty five for forty five years, right, 120 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 2: which is again, I mean, it's just wrong on its 121 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 2: face because earlier he said for thirty years, So like, 122 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 2: which is it? Donald? But whatever, Let's say that what 123 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,559 Speaker 2: he meant to claim is that under his presidency, drug 124 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 2: overdose deaths were at the lowest point in a long time. Right, 125 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 2: If we're being fair. That's the fairest I could be 126 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: to him. And it is true that the overdose death 127 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: rate dropped during Trump's presidency for one year eighteen. That's 128 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: the only year that it dropped. During each of the 129 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 2: other three years he was in office, the overdose rate rose, 130 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 2: and in fact, it rose by record numbers in twenty twenty. 131 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: PolitiFact also notes quote looking at overdose deaths from synthetic opioids, 132 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: the closely watched category that accounts for the largest share 133 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: of all opioid overdose deaths, the rate rose every year 134 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: of Trump's presidency. This is worth noting because all of 135 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: the things he wants to do at the border to 136 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: the cartels, all of his justifications for really needing to 137 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 2: crack down on human trafficking, for wanting to use the 138 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: Navy seals or whatever to kill cartel guys to basically 139 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 2: invade Mexico, it's to stop fentonl which he describes as 140 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: an existential threat to the country. And you know, makes 141 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 2: the claim that basically when I was president, you know, 142 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: all that stuff was where we were taking care of it, 143 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 2: it was all all declining, and then when Biden took over, 144 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: it got a lot worse, No, the rate of finnyl use, 145 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: wrote in Finyl related deaths in particular rose every single 146 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: year of Trump's presidency, every single year anyway, Trump promises 147 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: no mercy to the cartels and that he will designate 148 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: the major Ones foreign terrorist organizations with the goal of 149 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: cutting off their access to global financial systems. Incidentally, this 150 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: would provide a pretext to basically charging every drug user, 151 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: whether or not their drugs had anything to do with 152 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 2: a cartel, with material support of a terrorist organization, and 153 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: thus allow night marrish penalties for people caught dealing weed 154 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: or LSD or whatever, on the justification that they're aiding 155 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: the cartels with whom we are at war. Trump also 156 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: states that he will ask Congress to pass legislation to 157 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: allow the death penalty for quote drug smugglers and human traffickers. Now, 158 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: He's made similar statements around drug dealers in the past. 159 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: Here's how this particular rant on the Agenda forty seven 160 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: website ends. The drug cartels and their allies and the 161 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: Biden administration have the blood of countless millions on their hands. 162 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: Millions and millions of families and people are being destroyed. 163 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 2: When I am back in the White House, the drug 164 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 2: king and vicious traffickers will never sleep soundly again. We 165 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: did it once, and we did it better than anyone else. 166 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 2: There's never been a better border than we had just 167 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: two years ago. It was strong, it was powerful, and 168 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 2: it was respected all over the world. And now we're 169 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 2: laughed at all over the world. And we're not going 170 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: to let that happen much longer. We have to take over. 171 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: We have to be tough, and we have to be smart, 172 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 2: we have to be fair. But if we don't do 173 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 2: something immediately, our country is gone. Now that's all ridiculous, 174 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 2: but it behooves us to look into the origins of 175 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 2: this particular violent fantasy. When President Trump was still in office, 176 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 2: he repeatedly floated variations of a single idea using US 177 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: missiles to destroy so called drug factories, specifically those producing 178 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: either fentanyl or methamphetamine. Obviously, cartels do operate sizable facilities 179 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 2: and where they prepare drugs for smuggling and sale. They 180 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: have places where they cut fentanyl, which generally comes from elsewhere, 181 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: into other drugs, or make it into pills, etc. And 182 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 2: they've got places where meth is cooked. Obviously, so as 183 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 2: best as the New York Times has been able to trace. 184 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: His obsession with military action against Mexico seems to have 185 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 2: started in late twenty nineteen. So while the coronavirus is spreading, 186 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 2: our president, rather than focusing on a response, it's kind 187 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: of obsessed with the fentanyl crisis, which is serious. But 188 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: his way of dealing with it was to hold these constant, 189 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 2: large oval office meetings that people absolutely had to attend. 190 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 2: Quote some part tennsis from the New York Times. Some 191 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 2: participants felt the meetings were of little use because officials 192 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: tended to perform for mister Trump, and he would perform 193 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 2: for them. And that does put the fun idea in 194 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 2: my head of Donald Trump and a bunch of friends 195 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 2: all dancing about like, I don't know whatever kind of 196 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 2: animal you would train to dance. I'm spacing on that 197 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: right now. So why don't we just roll to ads 198 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 2: for a second. Well, I think of animals. We're back 199 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: to continue that quote from the New York Times. When 200 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 2: the idea of military intervention was brought up at one 201 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: such meeting, mister Trump turned to Brett Geroor, who was 202 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 2: there in his role as the US Assistant Secretary for Health. 203 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 2: Mister Gerrore was also a four star admiral in the 204 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 2: Commission Corps of the US Public Health Service, and he 205 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 2: was wearing his dress uniform. His main point was that 206 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 2: the United States was unable to combat the crisis with 207 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 2: treatment alone. According to a person briefed on his comments, 208 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 2: it was clear from the way mister Trump singled out 209 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 2: mister Gerror that he had mistakenly thought he was in 210 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 2: the military because of his dress uniform. According to two 211 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: participants in the meeting, mister Geror, in his response, suggested 212 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 2: putting lead to target. The two participants recalled that seems likely. 213 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: Gerroor denies this right. He claims, well, the President knows 214 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 2: me really well. We met all the time. He would 215 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 2: never mistake me for a soldier. And like, sure, buddy. 216 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 2: For one thing, I totally believe he could meet with 217 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: Trump regularly and Trump not remember him. But also, it 218 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 2: kind of sounds assume I mean again, and these are 219 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: all maybe not the best sources, but assume the people 220 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 2: who are like he said we should put lead to 221 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: target are telling the truth. That sounds to me like 222 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: this guy wearing his uniform because he knows it'll impress. 223 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: Trump was also trying to use military metaphors because he 224 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: I think maybe was just trying to have this impact 225 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: on Trump, right, make Trump think of him as like 226 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 2: a military official giving advice. There's some claims that people 227 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: in the administration were so concerned about this and were 228 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 2: so terrified that like Trump might actually attack Mexico that 229 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: they asked Jeror to stop wearing his uniform to meetings, 230 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 2: basically being like, he's hypnotized by this shit man, Like 231 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 2: if you dress like a soldier, he'll take you seriously 232 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 2: when you say this crazy bullshit. Anyway, at the same 233 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 2: time this is all going on, Attorney General William Barr 234 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 2: had also started floating the idea to the President that 235 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 2: maybe the United States should consider carrying out some attacks 236 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 2: in Mexico to kill cartel guys to stop the fentanyl. 237 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: Right. 238 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 2: His argument though, was not so much that we should 239 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 2: do it, but that if we threaten Mexi with military action, 240 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 2: that will force the Mexican government to be more aggressive 241 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 2: against the cartels. Now, William Barr is not a guy 242 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 2: I consider very smart, and this is in fact a 243 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 2: dumb idea because like Mexico's government has tried a bunch 244 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 2: of different ways to fight the cartels. They haven't destroyed 245 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 2: them right now. The current president of Mexico is is 246 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 2: more on the left, and he has a policy described 247 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 2: as hugs not bullets, right, which is not using the 248 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,719 Speaker 2: stick to fight the drug cartels. But that doesn't mean 249 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 2: that hasn't been tried. The Mexican government and the Mexican 250 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,359 Speaker 2: military have carried out a number of very high intensity 251 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 2: operations against cartels over the years. It's just like, it's hard. 252 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 2: The cartel problem is a massive, massive, complicated thing, and 253 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 2: the idea that like, if we threaten Mexico, they'll finally 254 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: do it kind of understates the degree to which Mexico 255 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: is capable of ending this epidemic or ending this problem 256 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 2: right of somehow taking back this territory and rendering the 257 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 2: cartels unable to function. I don't actually know that they are, 258 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 2: you know, I don't know that. I certainly wouldn't say 259 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: that the current president's plan is working. But no one 260 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 2: else has stopped them either, so I don't know. I 261 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 2: think Barr is rather silly when he thinks that it's 262 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 2: just a matter of threatening Mexico with an invasion that'll 263 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 2: force him to take care of this shit. I don't 264 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 2: really know that they have the ability to do that 265 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: either way. So for his part, Barr does not seem 266 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: to have actually wanted at military action in Mexico. Again, 267 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: he's thinking that the threat will do the trick. And 268 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 2: in fact, when Trump pushed back that like, well, maybe 269 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 2: we could just shoot some missiles into Mexico, Barr pushed 270 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: back on this and was like, well, if we fire, 271 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 2: missiles will hit, we might hit the wrong target, right, Basically, 272 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 2: civilian casualties you know, could happen, so we should avoid that. 273 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 2: And that really kind of showcases how fucking dangerous someone 274 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: like Barr is because his plan is he's thinking he's 275 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: playing forty chess or whatever. It's like, yeah, you know, 276 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 2: the Mexican government will get scared and they'll take care 277 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 2: of these cartels for us. But when you start floating 278 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 2: that adu to a guy named Trump, he's gonna be like, well, yeah, 279 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 2: let's just shoot him with missiles. And you may you 280 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: may push back against that initially, but when your stupid 281 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: plan to bully Mexico into destroying the cartel's doesn't work 282 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: because they can't or because they don't want to be bullied, 283 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 2: then what where are you, right, you can't step down 284 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 2: at that point. You can't back off once you've threatened 285 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 2: to bomb them, right, because if you threaten to attack 286 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 2: and they don't do shit and then you just kind 287 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: of like back off, you're gonna look weak. And that's 288 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 2: the worst thing in the world to these people. Right. 289 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: Trump's certainly not going to accept something like that. It's 290 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 2: part of why, like what bar was doing here is 291 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: just like incredibly irresponsible. Just with a guy like Trump, 292 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: you can't pull that shit. So this means again that 293 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 2: at some point, if this kind of process goes on, 294 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 2: if Trump wins office, if he's to carry out something 295 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: like what Bar was suggesting or something like what yourr 296 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: was suggesting, at some point, Trump's kind of need to 297 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 2: use military assets to strike Mexico if only save face. 298 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: And again, the safest thing for him to use would 299 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 2: be missiles to basically fire missiles, you know, guided missiles 300 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 2: at factories or whatever making drugs. This avoids risking US servicemen, 301 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 2: It certainly avoids the risk of them getting captured. Anyway. 302 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 2: I'm gonna quote from the New York Times against here, 303 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: at least twice during twenty twenty, mister Trump privately asked 304 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 2: as Defense Secretary mister Esper about the possibility of sending 305 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 2: patriot missiles into Mexico to destroy the drug labs and 306 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 2: whether they could blame another country for it. Patriot missiles 307 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 2: are not the kind that would be used. They are 308 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 2: surface to air weapons, but mister Trump had had a 309 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: habit of colleg all missiles patriot missiles. According to two 310 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: former senior administration officials, I just find that fuddy, like, man, 311 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 2: you are the you're the commander in chief, and you 312 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: don't know, like you don't even know that. Like it's 313 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 2: I don't expect the President to say, like I want 314 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: you to fire this exact version of missile. You know, 315 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: that's maybe a little more granular than is necessary for 316 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 2: him to know. But like you should know that patriot 317 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 2: missiles don't get fired at ground targets. That's not what 318 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: they do. They're kind of a major part of like 319 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 2: our military or min anti missile defense. It's just it's 320 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: just very silly of him. All this nonsense came to 321 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 2: a head for the first time in twenty twenty when, 322 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 2: during one of these interminable fentanyl meetings, Trump looked over 323 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 2: to Defense Secretary Mark Esper and asked, can we blow 324 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 2: up these drug labs with a missile and make it 325 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 2: look like another country did it? Now? That's you know, bad? Right? Like? 326 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 2: It brings up a lot of questions, namely like what 327 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 2: other country is in a position to fire missiles into Mexico? 328 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: Right Like, if you're saying, oh, it wasn't US, are 329 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 2: you say it's Canada because they'd have to kind of 330 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 2: cross a lot of space to do that. He's saying 331 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 2: Guatemalas firing missiles into Mexico because it doesn't really seem 332 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 2: like a Guatemala move. You know, who are you going 333 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 2: to blame? Thankfully? Esper was one of those rare Trump 334 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 2: appointees who possessed a basic minimal capacity for rational thought, 335 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 2: and we never, thankfully got the answer to the question 336 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 2: what would have had happened if he'd fired a missile 337 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 2: into Mexico. Esper argued against the idea, and then he 338 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 2: wrote about it in his memoir, which I have an 339 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 2: issue with. He's one of these guys who, yeah, maybe 340 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 2: we should have noted about that when it happened, rather 341 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 2: than waiting for your fucking book. But people got to 342 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 2: get paid, I guess reactions from Mexico to these revelations 343 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 2: about Trump considering missiling them and now the fact that 344 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 2: he's got on his website like our plan is to 345 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: use military assets to attack the cartels. Reactions from Mexico 346 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 2: have been pretty universally negative for reasons I probably don't 347 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 2: need to elaborate on. President Lopez Obrador told reporters in March, quote, 348 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 2: this initiative of the Republicans, besides being irresponsible, is an 349 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 2: offense to the people of Mexico, a lack of respect 350 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 2: to our independence, to our sovereignty. If they do not 351 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 2: change their attitude and think they are going to use 352 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 2: Mexico for their propaganda, their electoral and political purposes, we 353 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 2: are going to call for not voting for this party 354 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 2: because it is interventionalist and human, hypocritical and corrupt. I 355 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 2: don't know he's wrong there. I don't know how much 356 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 2: ability the president of Mexico has to shift votes in 357 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: the United States. But you know, it is interesting. You 358 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 2: don't often hear a world leader, specific particularly not of 359 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 2: the US's largest trading partners, say that they're going to 360 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 2: take sides in an election, not that openly at least, 361 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 2: but you know who never takes sides except for your side, 362 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 2: because they're always on your side. The products and services 363 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: that support this podcast and or program, we're back. So 364 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 2: the opposition candidate in next year's Mexican presidential elections also 365 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: made a statement that was it was a little bit 366 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 2: more moderated than obradors, but it belittled Trump's comments about 367 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 2: using military force on Mexico and stated, rather than threats, 368 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 2: we should work in a smart way. So nobody's really 369 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: happy with this down in Mexico. Not surprising to see why. Meanwhile, 370 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 2: in US politics, conservatives are now falling over themselves to 371 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: justify military intervention in Mexico. As soon as Trump adopts this, 372 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 2: it now becomes basically the standard Republican line that we 373 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 2: need to be sending our special forces guys in to 374 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 2: fight the fucking cartels. I'm not going to go over 375 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 2: a laundry list of all the dumbfucks who have embraced 376 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 2: this crap idea, but I do want to read one 377 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 2: quote from an ABC News article quote House Oversight Committee 378 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 2: Chairman James Comer, Republican Kentucky, on Tuesdays said that it 379 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 2: was a mistake that then President Donald Trump did not 380 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 2: bomb meth labs in Mexico after he had reportedly asked 381 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 2: his defense secretary about the possibility. In twenty twenty, One 382 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 2: of the things we learned post Trump presidency is that 383 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: he had ordered a bombing of a couple fentanyl labs 384 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: crystal meth labs in Mexico just across the border, and 385 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 2: for whatever reason, the military didn't do it. Comer said 386 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: on Fox and Friends, I think that was a mistake. 387 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: Now I want to discuss for a second how impossible 388 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: it is for this plan to work. Noted earlier, there 389 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 2: are drug labs in Mexico, quite a few of them, 390 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 2: making a variety and not just making but in many 391 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 2: cases taking drugs that come from elsewhere and basically packaging 392 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 2: them in a way that they can be sold or smuggled. 393 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 2: That is, those facilities certainly exist, but they are not 394 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: like the large centralized factories that I don't know, like 395 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 2: a military rival would used to produce tanks. Right, most 396 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 2: of this work, even if it is currently being done 397 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 2: in a sizable facility, can be done in smaller facilities 398 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 2: and can be moved pretty readily. And again, it's just 399 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 2: not very intelligent to think that you can cripple this 400 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 2: the same way you can cripple an enemy's ability to 401 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 2: produce missiles or tanks. And even then that's not easy. 402 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 2: We're actually really bad at it. We've repeatedly during wars 403 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 2: bombed countries to attempt to destroy their ability to produce 404 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 2: munitions and failed to really do that to a substantial extent. 405 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 2: And so something like the narcotics industry, which is even 406 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 2: more underground, even more hard to identify by nature of 407 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 2: what it is, it's it's a big ask on the surface. Right. 408 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,719 Speaker 2: It's also worth laying out why it's dumb as hell 409 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 2: to conflate drug cartels with ISIS, because a big part 410 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 2: of why Trump, how Trump thinks things are going to go, 411 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 2: is like, well, Isis took over Raka, took over Mosel, 412 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 2: and then we beat them up, you know, we kick 413 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 2: the crap out of them, We destroyed ISIS. That's what 414 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 2: he I think, that's literally what he thinks happens, and 415 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 2: it's certainly what he wants his voters to think happened. 416 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 2: But that's not really what happened. Right when the physical 417 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 2: caliphate was liberated, ISIS went underground, and they are still 418 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 2: there and still have the potential to take in whold 419 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 2: territory again. ISIS attacks in both Iraq and Syria have 420 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 2: been raising steadily for years. There's a lot of reasons 421 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 2: for this. Big part of why things have gotten worse 422 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: in Syria is that the Biden administration has done fuck 423 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 2: all to stop the Turkish government from attacking the autonomous 424 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 2: region Rojava. Who are the folks who defeated ISIS in Syria, 425 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 2: and that has degraded their capacity to keep a fucking 426 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 2: little things. So number one, this victory he claims, wasn't 427 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 2: a total victory. And number two, the reason why ISIS 428 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: was knocked out of you know, Mosl and knocked out 429 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 2: of most of their territorial claims in a fairly short 430 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 2: period of time was because of a couple of things. 431 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 2: Number One, the US was providing support, but we were 432 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: not carrying out either operation on our own in both 433 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 2: Iraq and Syria. We were supporting other extant militant groups 434 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 2: that had a long history and a decent amount of 435 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 2: support in the region, right And number two, and maybe 436 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 2: you could make the claim that that's the case with the 437 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: Mexican army, But the other aspect is that ISIS were 438 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,959 Speaker 2: not guys who had been in charge for forever in 439 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: that region and had deep bases. Most of them were foreigners, 440 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 2: and they were foreigners who had very quickly taken urban 441 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 2: areas and then started running them like dog shit. Cartels 442 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 2: have existed for a lot longer. They have effectively and 443 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 2: do effectively rule large chunks of Mexico and have done 444 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 2: so for longer than ISIS has existed. They have deep 445 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 2: networks of local ties and in many areas, a reputation 446 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 2: for providing services better than the Mexican government has done. 447 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 2: I don't say this to whitewash how horrible these organizations are, 448 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 2: but they are not ISIS, which just came up seemingly 449 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 2: out of nowhere, took over a bunch of cities and 450 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 2: then got fucking kicked out, and you know, never had 451 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 2: a huge base of support among the populace, particularly in Iraq, 452 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,479 Speaker 2: because again there were just some assholes who showed up 453 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 2: one day as opposed to the cartels, which you know, 454 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 2: especially once the US starts bombing Mexico and killing Mexican civilians, 455 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 2: which will happen anytime we're bombing them, just the idea, 456 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 2: the amount of support it could potentially build for the 457 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 2: fucking cartels is substantial. But even beyond that, the idea 458 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 2: that you could knock these beat people out easily, they're not. Again, 459 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 2: they have a deep base of support, a deep history 460 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 2: in these areas. They have functioned for a long time, 461 00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 2: not just running things, but also constantly fighting against a 462 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 2: military and the government that has a degree of capacity 463 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 2: and technology at its back. So the idea that like, 464 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: you're just going to be able to kick these guys 465 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 2: out of whatever, Sonora, the way that you know isis 466 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 2: was quote unquote kicked out of mosl It's fanciful, right, 467 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 2: It's it's it's a farce. Now, speaking of farces, I 468 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 2: want to talk about kind of the the thing that 469 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 2: we should all see as the model for what might 470 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 2: actually how it would actually work if Trump tried to 471 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 2: go into Mexico to take out the cartels. And this 472 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 2: brings me back to Afghanistan. Right during Trump's administration, the 473 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 2: Department of Defense was empowered by the president to use 474 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 2: vastly more force and their attempts to destroy Taliban drug labs. Obviously, 475 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: Taliban funded a lot of their war effort with the 476 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 2: sale of opium, you know, heroin, whatever, and it was, 477 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 2: you know, believed that if we can cut, if we 478 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 2: can destroy their ability to grow and process this stuff, 479 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 2: we can cut the lake out from underneath the Taliban. 480 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 2: And Trump really bought into this and allowed the DoD 481 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 2: to accelerate their efforts to do this. Our forces started 482 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 2: carrying out a mix of air strikes and special operations 483 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 2: attacks on Taliban drug labs in twenty seventeen. It is 484 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 2: the same plan that they executed that Trump is pushing 485 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 2: for the United States to use in Mexico and in Afghanistan. 486 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 2: This plan was such an abysmal failure that not only 487 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 2: did it not stop drug production, it actually accelerated the 488 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: production of opiates in fucking Afghanistan at the highest level 489 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 2: in recorded history. This program failed so badly that the 490 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 2: Pentagon ended their strikes on drug labs in twenty nineteen. 491 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 2: They gave up in two years because they didn't couldn't 492 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 2: do it. They were bad at it. Now, the fact 493 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 2: that this kind of plan that Trump is pushed would 494 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 2: undeniably fail to actually destroy the cartels to stop drugs 495 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 2: and human trafficking across the border, this does not mean 496 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 2: that it would actually be a failure. For the reasons 497 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: that Trump and many of the Republicans wanted to fail, 498 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 2: which is that declaring war on cartels allows them to 499 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 2: justify a major power grap and destroy or in the 500 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 2: lives of US citizens they already see as enemies. And 501 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 2: I don't mean to say that this is more serious 502 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 2: than the lives that will be lost in Mexico. It 503 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 2: certainly not. But this is very serious as well. Last October, 504 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 2: a think tank, the Center for Renewing America, published a 505 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 2: policy paper with the fun title It's Time to Wage 506 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 2: War on Transnational Drug Cartels. Paper makes it clear that 507 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 2: illegal immigration is just as much a priority as fentanel 508 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 2: in carrying out these actions, and in fact, it lists 509 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 2: the goals of this planned military policy in Mexico this way. 510 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 2: Number one, ending the illegal flow of people trafficking victims 511 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 2: and drugs across the southern border. Now, the paper suggests 512 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 2: creating a new classification that is similar but different to 513 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 2: foreign terrorist organization for the cartels. It lists a series 514 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 2: of escalatory stages that Trump's administration should take, starting with 515 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 2: putting pressure on the Mexican government to take care of 516 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 2: things themselves, and since the Mexican government is not really 517 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 2: capable at president of ending a present of ending either 518 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 2: migration or drug cartels. Escalation is inevitable. So after this 519 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 2: phase fails, phase two is to have the President start 520 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 2: deploying military units, initially to interdict the coast, but also 521 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 2: to coordinate with the DEA to target and kill cartel 522 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 2: figures and destroy their assets. US ports will be closed 523 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,719 Speaker 2: whenever the number of illegal immigrant apprehensions that the border 524 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 2: increases past a certain level. Right, So they are also saying, 525 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 2: and again you get the feeling from this paper. While 526 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 2: Trump always harps on the drugs and the horror is 527 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 2: a fentanyl, it's very clear from this paper there is 528 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 2: concerned and if not more concerned about the fact that 529 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 2: non white people are entering the country quote well costly 530 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: to the economy. This closing sorts would incentivize the Mexican 531 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 2: government to crack down on human smugglers, migrant caravans, and 532 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 2: cartel trafficking networks. Now into the fourth and final phase 533 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: of this plan, the US government would basically carry out 534 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 2: a full scale invasion of parts of Mexico in order 535 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 2: to defeat cartels and secure the border. At no point 536 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 2: are there any suggestions made as to how this might 537 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 2: be done, or why it would be more successful than 538 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 2: the attempts that failed in Afghanistan. Instead, they just move 539 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 2: right onto the last phase, the victory phase, which includes 540 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 2: these suggestions. Congress should enact legislation that creates enhanced penalties 541 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 2: for US citizens found guilty of collaborating with the cartels. 542 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 2: Punishment should include mandatory minimum federal sentencing of fifteen years 543 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: in prison for working with cartels labeled as transnational criminal organizations, 544 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 2: and mandatory minimum sentencing of twenty five years in prison 545 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 2: for working with cartels labeled under the new Cartel statutory guidelines. 546 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 2: Congress should enact legislation that defines material and financial supports 547 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 2: for the cartels designated under the new statutory framework has 548 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,719 Speaker 2: tantamount to engaging in terrorism against the United States. This 549 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 2: basically means, depending on how this is written, it could 550 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 2: mean that doing drugs, possessing drugs, having friends who sell 551 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 2: or use drugs could mean that you're committing terrorism by 552 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 2: supporting the cartels. It is not impossible that that is 553 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 2: how this law these laws should they be actually put 554 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 2: on the books. Ever, should this program be enacted, That's 555 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 2: not impossible that that's how it would be interpreted and 556 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: why wouldn't they want to write this would allow them 557 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 2: to lock up a shitload of people that they see 558 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 2: as being on the left. If you think back to 559 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 2: Richard Nixon. A big reason why, and this is a 560 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: stated reason why, you know, the war on marijuana was escalated, 561 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 2: is that it lets you arrest the fucking hippies and 562 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 2: anti war protesters and put them in prison. You know, 563 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 2: that is a big part of what a lot of 564 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 2: people in Trump's orbit want to do with this. And 565 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 2: I say that because the guy who wrote this fucking 566 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 2: thing is a dude named Kim Kochinelli is a major 567 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 2: anti left culture warfucker. One of his jobs under Trump 568 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 2: was he worked under Chad Wolfe, who was the illegally 569 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 2: the director of the DHS during the twenty twenty uprising. 570 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 2: In September of twenty twenty, he ordered the intelligence branch 571 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 2: of the Department of Homeland Security to downplay threats by 572 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 2: white supremacists and instead focus on the danger of Antifa. 573 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: Under his watch, DHS also compiled and tel reports on 574 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: journalists in Portland, Oregon might have some issue with this 575 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 2: guy personally, and defended the abduction by federal agents of 576 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 2: civilians in unmarked vehicles, right, you know, when people were 577 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 2: being abducted off the streets of Portland. He was a 578 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: big fan of that. Ken Guchinelli really likes that idea. 579 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: He is also essentially a white nationalist himself. In August 580 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 2: of twenty nineteen, he announced a revised regulation to go 581 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 2: into effect October fifteenth, twenty nineteen, that expanded the public 582 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 2: charge requirements for legal immigration, made it harder to get 583 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 2: green cards and visas if you were poor. Basically, he's stopped. 584 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 2: He made they basically, if we might need something like 585 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 2: food stamps, it's harder to get, you know, to immigrate 586 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 2: legally to the United States. He was asked, doesn't this 587 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 2: kind of contradict, you know, that poem on the Statue 588 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: of Liberty about welcoming you know, poor and persecuted people. 589 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 2: Kucinelli suggested a revision to the poem on the Statute 590 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 2: of Liberty, on the Statue of Liberty, give me you're 591 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,719 Speaker 2: tired and you're poor, who can stand on their own 592 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 2: two feet and who will not become a public charge, 593 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 2: So that's that's cool. He also made a point that 594 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: the poem referred to European immigrants, so you know, fuck 595 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 2: those non white people, right, you know, like the poem 596 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 2: was never meant for them. He's a fucking nazi, right, 597 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 2: He's a white nationalist at the very least, like kN 598 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 2: Kuchinelli is the kind of person that a decent society 599 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 2: would google what the Romans did with the Tarpaian rocks 600 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 2: when they had someone who was a trader to their system, 601 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 2: and that's what should happened to Ken Cucinelli. But instead 602 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 2: he's trying to get the US military to invent Mexico. 603 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 2: So that's good anyway, that's a Trump's Agenda forty seven 604 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 2: policy on the cartels. I hope you all had a 605 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 2: lot of fun anyway, Bye. 606 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 607 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 608 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 609 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 610 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 611 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.