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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods presented by first Light, creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First

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Speaker 1: Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by my buddy Tony Peterson to

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Speaker 2: discuss how lateral thinking and the fostering of diverse new

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Speaker 2: skills and pursuits, and maybe even learning how to play

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Speaker 2: the guitar can help you become a better deer hunter.

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Speaker 2: Hey guys, I got to interrupt the podcast here real

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Speaker 2: quick for an update about a special opportunity that I

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Speaker 2: think some of you might be interested in. Here's the deal.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever wanted to have a sit down or

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Speaker 2: discussion with myself and Tony Peterson to answer your very

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Speaker 2: own hunting questions. Did you ever wish that you could

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Speaker 2: send us a map of your hunting property and have

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Speaker 2: us pinpoint the spots that we think would be good.

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Speaker 2: Have us talk through our ideas on how you might

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Speaker 2: be able to access your property or your hunting locations,

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Speaker 2: or maybe where to put food plots or all sorts

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Speaker 2: of stuff like that. Well, guess what that chance is

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Speaker 2: available now as a part of meat Eater's auction House

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Speaker 2: of Oddities, we are auctioning off a one hour private

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Speaker 2: digital consultation. I guess it's an hour long zoom call

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Speaker 2: with me and Tony to talk through whatever you want

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Speaker 2: to talk about when it comes to white tails. We

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Speaker 2: will review your maps, take a look at your property,

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Speaker 2: answer any questions, spitball, strategize, We'll do it all. And

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Speaker 2: as a part of this thing, As a part of

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Speaker 2: this auction, this item which you can bid on, or

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Speaker 2: many others that are out there as well, like some

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Speaker 2: guided fishing trips, hunting trips, all sorts of different bizarre

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Speaker 2: things like a I don't know, like a fur covered

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Speaker 2: buyo harness, I think the beaver fur pillows. All sorts

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Speaker 2: of stuff over at the auction House of Oddities. But

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Speaker 2: this auction house is benefiting Meat Eater's Land Access initiative,

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Speaker 2: and this time around, the land Access Initiative is supporting

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Speaker 2: the ongoing legal fees. So the funds from these auctions

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Speaker 2: will go to help fund the ongoing legal fees of

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Speaker 2: the Wyoming Corner Crossing case and the outcome of this

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Speaker 2: case in Wyoming can be applied to twenty seven thousand

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Speaker 2: plus corner crossings across eleven Western states. So that means

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Speaker 2: if this thing finally gets finalized in our favor, it

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Speaker 2: could open up eight million acres of public land that

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Speaker 2: would finally clearly be legal for you and me to access.

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Speaker 2: So that's what we're doing here with this auction. If

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Speaker 2: you go over to Auctionhouseofodities dot com or just go

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Speaker 2: to the meat eater dot com and then you'll be

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Speaker 2: a find links there heading over to the auction house,

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Speaker 2: bid on this digital hunting consultation with me and Tony

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Speaker 2: or any of the other items, and help support this

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Speaker 2: Wyoming corner crossing case and let's open up eight million

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Speaker 2: acres of new public land for you and me. And

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Speaker 2: just a heads up on timing. The auction house is

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Speaker 2: open from now until April ninth, twenty twenty four. Now

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Speaker 2: back to the show. All right, Welcome back to another

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Speaker 2: episode of the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought to you

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Speaker 2: by First Light and their Camo for Conservation initiative. This

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Speaker 2: whole initiative means that a portion of every sale of

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Speaker 2: first Light Spectr cameo pattern, which is the white Tail

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Speaker 2: pattern that Tony and I wear out there all season long.

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Speaker 2: If you buy anything with that pattern on it, a

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Speaker 2: portion of that sale is going to go to the

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Speaker 2: National Dear Association, which I'm a fan of. Now today

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Speaker 2: we've got a different kind of episode for you. I've

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Speaker 2: got my buddy Tony Peterson with me to help with this.

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Speaker 2: And here's the idea. I kind of want to set

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Speaker 2: the stage for the conversation we're going to have here,

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Speaker 2: kind of lay out my pitch I suppose for you,

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Speaker 2: and then and then we'll see where it goes. But

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Speaker 2: here's the idea, the pitch I have. The concept I

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Speaker 2: want to consider today is this idea, This idea that

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Speaker 2: if you want to be the best possible deer hunter

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Speaker 2: you can be, you need to do other things than

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Speaker 2: deer hunting. If you want to have specialist level success

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Speaker 2: as a deer hunter, you know what we assume a

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Speaker 2: specialist has, which is like the very most deer hunting

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Speaker 2: success you could get. If you want to have that

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Speaker 2: kind of success, you actually need to be more of

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Speaker 2: a generalist. So this is kind of a backwards thought here,

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Speaker 2: But this is this argument that I have something that

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Speaker 2: Tony and I have kind of dabbled around the edges

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Speaker 2: and past conversations, but today I really want to focus

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Speaker 2: on this idea that to get better deer hunting, to

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Speaker 2: have more success, to have more satisfaction with this thing

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Speaker 2: that we talk about every week, actually want to and

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Speaker 2: should diversify our activities and our year. We actually should

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Speaker 2: think about adding in more seasonality to what we're doing.

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Speaker 2: We should actually consider some changes in pace. We need

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Speaker 2: to invest in different kind of activities that kind of

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Speaker 2: spark our mind in different ways, that challenge us in

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Speaker 2: different ways, and all of this kind of stuff. By

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Speaker 2: stepping away from your standard way of thinking about deer hunting,

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Speaker 2: the standard deer hunting things we do, it will actually

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Speaker 2: come back around and help us. That's the pitch. That's

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Speaker 2: the idea that I want to consider here, Tony. Before

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Speaker 2: I lay into like some of my inspiration for this,

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Speaker 2: the first thing I want to know from you is

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Speaker 2: does any of this resonate like, does this seem like

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Speaker 2: something that makes sense to you? Or do I sound

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Speaker 2: like I'm off my rocker?

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Speaker 3: No? Man, I've been pushing this message more and more

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Speaker 3: probably the last four or five years, as I just

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Speaker 3: realized it about myself that you know, I like a

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Speaker 3: lot of people who are listening to this, and I

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Speaker 3: know you have. It's easy to go real deep on

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Speaker 3: wanting to be the best white tail hunter ever. And

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Speaker 3: I'm only going to scout white tales. I'm only gonna

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Speaker 3: think about white tails. I'm only gonna hunt white tails.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think it makes I don't think that's

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Speaker 3: the recipe to make a good hunter in a lot

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Speaker 3: for a lot of people. And I think that being

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Speaker 3: a generalist and being interested in other stuff, not just

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Speaker 3: outdoor activities, not just we're not just talking fishing or

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Speaker 3: fast at hunting or whatever, but just having things that

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Speaker 3: challenge you, that keep you working toward goals and kind

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Speaker 3: of that that intermittent progress. I just I think it's

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Speaker 3: as I age, that becomes so much more evident to

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Speaker 3: me how important that is. You know, it's just a

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Speaker 3: long game thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I think something that will probably come back around to,

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Speaker 2: but that I've been thinking a lot about, is this

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Speaker 2: just idea of having like my white tail mind always

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Speaker 2: on in the background while doing different things and so

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Speaker 2: engaging in a lot of different activities, but having that

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Speaker 2: white tail whisper in the back of my mind that's

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Speaker 2: whispering like, hey, this would actually work really good when

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Speaker 2: you're making decisions as a deer hunter, or Hey, this

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Speaker 2: kind of skills that you're building is going to be

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Speaker 2: very useful come October or November, whatever it is. And

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Speaker 2: like just kind of having that awareness on at all times,

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Speaker 2: even outside of deer hunting season, even when I'm doing

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Speaker 2: something completely unrelated to deer hunting. I think it's important

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Speaker 2: to kind of just have that awareness boiling in the

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Speaker 2: back of your subconscious so you can pick and grab

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Speaker 2: and choose and remember these different things or jump on

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Speaker 2: these little opportunities when they arise. I think all of

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Speaker 2: that stuff helps build this next level deer hunting ability.

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Speaker 2: I guess here's one thing that I've thought about. There's

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Speaker 2: like different levels or stages of growth as a deer

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Speaker 2: hunter that I think I've experienced at least, and I

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Speaker 2: imagine most people have this. You've got that first stage

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Speaker 2: where you're just trying to figure out, like what the

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Speaker 2: hell am I doing right where you just need like

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Speaker 2: a foundation of what is this stuff I'm looking at?

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Speaker 2: What are these things I'm trying to do? Where do

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Speaker 2: these things live? How do they operate? Like you have

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Speaker 2: to have a base level amount of knowledge, right, And

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Speaker 2: then there's like the second tier, which is like a

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Speaker 2: big one where like how do I become good at

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Speaker 2: this stuff? Like how do I really understand the nuance?

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Speaker 2: How do I really get to the two oh one

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Speaker 2: three oh one level? Stuff like this is that stage

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Speaker 2: where people go from just killing deer to like how

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Speaker 2: do I consistently kill you know, older deer? Right? And

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people maybe stop there. But

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Speaker 2: then there's this next level that I think there's probably

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Speaker 2: two ways to go about getting there. I think there's

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Speaker 2: one level where there's the person who just wants to

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Speaker 2: be the specialist, the guy or girl who says, I'm

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Speaker 2: doing nothing else but deer hunting. I'm gonna spend ten

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Speaker 2: thousand hours becoming an expert in this thing and this

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Speaker 2: is the only thing, and that that might be one

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Speaker 2: way to do it, Like I can I can point

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Speaker 2: to some examples of that, But I guess what I

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Speaker 2: want to talk about today is a different way to

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Speaker 2: get there, which is this this way of pulling in

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Speaker 2: from the outside world that will then help you on

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Speaker 2: this inside whitetail world become better. And so part of

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Speaker 2: this this is a long, roundabout way of getting to

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Speaker 2: what I want to say here, Tony. But there's a

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Speaker 2: book I've been reading. It's called Range by David Epstein.

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Speaker 2: You've ever heard of that. So the book here is

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's right about what we're talking about here.

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Speaker 2: The book's called Range Why generalists triumph in a specialized world?

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Speaker 2: And the general thesis here is that there's if we

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Speaker 2: were to oversimplify, there's kind of two different ways or

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Speaker 2: environments within this world that we live in that you

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Speaker 2: could break things up. There's something that they refer to

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Speaker 2: some studies that point to kind learning environments, and kind

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Speaker 2: learning environments are kind learning activities are the kinds of

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Speaker 2: things where you know, there are clear rules, there are

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Speaker 2: clear patterns, there's very immediate and clear feedback, and you

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Speaker 2: can then, you know, operate in an environment like that

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Speaker 2: or in an activity like that and very clearly understand, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is what you're supposed to do. I do the thing,

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Speaker 2: it worked or it didn't work, and then I adjust.

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Speaker 2: This would be stuff like chess, This would be stuff

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Speaker 2: like solving math problems. This is stuff like golf, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, different activities like that. And then there's what

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Speaker 2: you know. Epstein makes the argument in his book there's

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Speaker 2: a different kind of a learning environment, which is where

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Speaker 2: the world is trending more and more now. He originally

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Speaker 2: speaks to the fact that kind of the old world

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Speaker 2: was more of like that kind learning environment, like working

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Speaker 2: in a factory. It's like you take this thing, you

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Speaker 2: put it in this hole, and you move it down

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Speaker 2: the line. Right, It's like, just do this, do this,

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Speaker 2: do this, move it down. And now we're moving into

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Speaker 2: a new kind of world, which is what they call

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Speaker 2: a wicked learning environment and a wicked learning environment. I'm

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Speaker 2: just going to read you the quote here. A wicked

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Speaker 2: and learning environment are these activities where patterns are harder

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Speaker 2: to discern, and feedback is delayed or inaccurate. Information is

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Speaker 2: hidden even when it isn't. Feedback may be delayed, it

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Speaker 2: might be infrequent, it may be non existent. It may

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Speaker 2: be partly accurate or inaccurate. So sometimes in wicked learning environments,

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Speaker 2: the wrong types of behavior are reinforced. What is that

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Speaker 2: soundly to you? That sounds like deer hunting, right.

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Speaker 3: Well, it kind of sounds like war, but it also

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Speaker 3: sounds like deer hunting.

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Speaker 2: Yes, kind of sounds like war. But like if we're

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Speaker 2: if we're saying that which one of these two buckets

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Speaker 2: does deer hunting fit into? Man, it is not chess

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Speaker 2: like I know we like to say, like, oh, deer

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Speaker 2: hunting is a chess game, but it's not at all. Right.

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Speaker 2: We don't get to see all the pieces on the table.

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Speaker 2: We don't get We try something and we don't know

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Speaker 2: if this is the right thing, right. How many times

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Speaker 2: have we talked about asking why and we try to

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Speaker 2: figure out the why something happened, but we never really know, right,

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Speaker 2: there's no clear feedback, there's no accurate feedback. All the time,

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Speaker 2: we're dealing with a tremendous amount of uncertainty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we say something, the rules change all the time,

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Speaker 3: and we don't know until it's way too late.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And so the argument in this book is

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Speaker 2: that wicked learning environments favor a generalist approach. It favors

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Speaker 2: not a specialized, narrow field of knowledge and expertise, but

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Speaker 2: a broader base of knowledge to pull from because it

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Speaker 2: allows something called lateral thinking. So the simplified version of

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Speaker 2: what lateral thinking is just like being able to connect

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Speaker 2: disparate ideas, being able to take an idea from one

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Speaker 2: world and apply it to another, taking a concept from

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Speaker 2: one realm and pulling into your world, like combining different

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Speaker 2: things in creative ways problem solving, right, And that I

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Speaker 2: think is what we're kind of trying to get at today.

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Speaker 2: I think that.

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Speaker 3: Does this make you think? Because immediately what this makes

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Speaker 3: me think of is guys like Andy May and Zach

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Speaker 3: Farrinbau who've hunted white tails in so many different environments

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Speaker 3: where that you know, maybe on paper don't seem like

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Speaker 3: they'd be all that connected, but because of the experience

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Speaker 3: doing it over and over in different places, it just

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Speaker 3: becomes easier everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think a lot of what this does

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Speaker 2: the studies that I'm reading about in this book and

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Speaker 2: some others, it puts language to and validation to some

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Speaker 2: ideas that we've kind of thought, we believed. Like we've

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Speaker 2: talked about this a lot, right, You and I have

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Speaker 2: talked about the importance of hunting new places, doing new things,

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Speaker 2: you know, trying new approaches, and how all of that,

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Speaker 2: you know, can make you a better deer hunter. And

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Speaker 2: I think this is pointing to man, there's like higher

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Speaker 2: level studies and higher level stuff going on here that

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Speaker 2: points to, yeah, that being true, whether it be diversity

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Speaker 2: in your deer hunting or diversity in everything you're doing.

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Speaker 2: And again, like being able to pull from all of

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Speaker 2: those different places, being able to pull from all those

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Speaker 2: different activities, strengthening these different muscles hype like metaphorical muscles,

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Speaker 2: mental and physical in some case, and how all that

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Speaker 2: comes back and helps you as a deer hunter. Like

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Speaker 2: the thing is if you just do the same thing

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Speaker 2: over and over and over again, if you just hunt

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Speaker 2: the same way over and over and over to a degree,

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Speaker 2: you'll get better at that thing for a while. But

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Speaker 2: there's that plateauing, right, And we don't live in a

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Speaker 2: static deer hunting world, right. Things are always changing around.

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Speaker 2: It's the habitat is changing, hunting pressures changing, There's all

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Speaker 2: sorts of things that can go haywire. If you're not

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Speaker 2: able to stay up on that, if you're not too

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Speaker 2: able to adjust with the times, if you're not able

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Speaker 2: to be just as dynamic as the wild world is,

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Speaker 2: you're never going to enjoy the success that you probably

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Speaker 2: could have otherwise.

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Speaker 3: And I want to say something on that, because I

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Speaker 3: think you're making a really good point I think this

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Speaker 3: ties to what you said way at the beginning, where

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Speaker 3: you talked about having no matter what you're doing, having

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Speaker 3: this kind of background noise of white tail thought going

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Speaker 3: because I just randomly, like two nights ago, I was

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Speaker 3: laying in bed, just about to start reading, and I

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Speaker 3: started thinking about small mouth, like we're what what are

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Speaker 3: the best doing right now? And it kind of like

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Speaker 3: my wife walked in and I was like, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to ask my wife if she ever thinks about small

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Speaker 3: mouth any other time than when I'm like we should

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Speaker 3: go because right like she fishes with us, you know,

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Speaker 3: and like we we go up to the lake a lot.

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Speaker 3: And so I'm like, does she does it ever occur

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Speaker 3: to her to think about small mouth in March or

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Speaker 3: you know, April or whatever. So I asked her, I

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Speaker 3: was like, in any given month when we're not like

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Speaker 3: going to the lake, do you ever think about what

295
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Speaker 3: those small mouths are doing in our lake? And she

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Speaker 3: looked at me and she was like no, like why

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Speaker 3: why would I? And it just it kind of like

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Speaker 3: it made me think about how often you talk to

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Speaker 3: somebody who's a deer hunter, you know, like and I'm

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Speaker 3: kind of stereotyping here. But you know, maybe there's somebody

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Speaker 3: who goes up for the rifle opener and the you know,

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Speaker 3: up in the up at the cabin or whatever for

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Speaker 3: three days, and that's their hunt. They're probably not thinking

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Speaker 3: about white tails, like what what what are the deer

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Speaker 3: doing up there in march? And I think that so

306
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Speaker 3: when you talk about, you know, learning in this wicked

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Speaker 3: environment that we're going to get into here and and

308
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Speaker 3: becoming a generalist, I think one of the easiest things

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Speaker 3: for you to do is to start thinking about this

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Speaker 3: stuff more like just start just put some mental horsepower

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Speaker 3: to it. You can't always go out and scout. You

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Speaker 3: can't always be a part of it in that world,

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Speaker 3: but you can not even not even necessarily eat scouting.

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Speaker 3: You can be thinking about this more like why do

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Speaker 3: the deer do this? Or why do they do that?

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Speaker 3: Like I'll give you a quick example here before we

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Speaker 3: move on. I took one of my daughters out scout

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Speaker 3: turkeys just like a week ago, and we went and

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Speaker 3: sat and on this property we I have permission on

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Speaker 3: and that the owner has one redneck blind on this

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Speaker 3: food plot. It's a great it's great set up to

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Speaker 3: glass turkeys just it just is right. So we went

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Speaker 3: in there and sat and we watched a dough in

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Speaker 3: a fawn and then three bucks come out. Three shed

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Speaker 3: bucks come out, And what they did was they're at

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Speaker 3: that blind the whole time and feed in the corner

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Speaker 3: of the food plot and kind of move off and

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Speaker 3: browse and come back out. And then it got dark

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Speaker 3: and they went past, but they I was like, they're

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Speaker 3: still avoiding this blind, and like it kind of struck

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Speaker 3: me as like you know, when you hunt there, like

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Speaker 3: I hunted their Muzzloder season and of course the deer

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Speaker 3: is super kGy because they've been hunted out of their

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Speaker 3: whole bunch. But in my brain that sort of shut

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Speaker 3: off once the season ended, like I just assumed they

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Speaker 3: would get real comfortable again. But we were talking almost

337
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Speaker 3: you know, almost four well three and a half months

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Speaker 3: out from the gun season or the end of the

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Speaker 3: bow season, and those deer are still like that's the

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Speaker 3: danger spot. And it kind of made me realize, like

341
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Speaker 3: I wasn't thinking about that correctly, but they are like

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Speaker 3: they're still like we don't want to get close to there,

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Speaker 3: even though we haven't had any negative interactions with that

344
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Speaker 3: in months, it's still ingrained in there, and it kind

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Speaker 3: of it was kind of an eye opener to me.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's this kind of this thing that happens when

347
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Speaker 2: you put yourself in a different environment. In this case,

348
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Speaker 2: you were kind of in the same environment, but a

349
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Speaker 2: different kind of year or a different time of year. Right,

350
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Speaker 2: It's like if you allow yourself to go into a

351
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Speaker 2: different place in a different set of circumstances and then

352
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Speaker 2: kind of circle back to deer hunting while you're in

353
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Speaker 2: that different place, it like makes new things fire, It

354
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Speaker 2: makes new ideas pop out. I mean, this is like

355
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Speaker 2: a thing in writing, I'm sure in like all sorts

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Speaker 2: of creative and creative endeavors, right when people have like

357
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Speaker 2: writer's block, or people are struggling to write something new

358
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Speaker 2: or paint a new picture or whatever. It is like

359
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,040
Speaker 2: a common practice is to you got to shake things up.

360
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Speaker 2: You've got to put yourself into a new environment. You

361
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Speaker 2: need to you know, create something new in your environment

362
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Speaker 2: mentally or physically to then you know, get your body

363
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Speaker 2: and brain thinking differently. And so I think that same

364
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 2: thing applies. So it's like in your case, scouting turkey's

365
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,639
Speaker 2: hunting turkeys, whatever you had this pseudo epiphany because you

366
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Speaker 2: were in the deer hunting world but in a different time.

367
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Speaker 2: I think similar things might happen, Like when you're out

368
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Speaker 2: small mall fishing. I bet you when you're out small

369
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Speaker 2: mall fishing, there will be moments when you're out there

370
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Speaker 2: fishing and then all of a sudden you're like, man,

371
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,919
Speaker 2: this is a lot like what deer do. And it's

372
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Speaker 2: kind of funny because I realized that small mothor we

373
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Speaker 2: you know, adjusting to this rock pile in a certain way,

374
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Speaker 2: and that's just how a buck's going to use structure

375
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Speaker 2: when he's traveling or I don't know what it is,

376
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Speaker 2: but like there's probably these different, like analogous things that

377
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Speaker 2: we can see or understand more clearly from our deer

378
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 2: hunting world when we look at them through the lens

379
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Speaker 2: of something different. And that's I think that's like the

380
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Speaker 2: whole thing that I'm hoping we can get at here

381
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Speaker 2: today is like how we can do that a little

382
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Speaker 2: bit better or examples of how we've done that at least,

383
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Speaker 2: and maybe that's useful for other folks.

384
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Speaker 3: Well, can we can we go down that little, small

385
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Speaker 3: old rabbit hole for a second, Yeah, because I think

386
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Speaker 3: one of the things that I've learned after fishing. You know,

387
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Speaker 3: I fished all over, but I fish one like a lot,

388
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 3: and you know when they school up in the summer

389
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 3: where the schools are. But you know, like in my head,

390
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Speaker 3: I go to this rock pile and if they're there,

391
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Speaker 3: we catch them. If not, I move on to the

392
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 3: next one, and they'll be there. And when you start

393
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Speaker 3: to break it down, you go, Okay, they live in

394
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 3: this I don't know how big of an area. It's

395
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Speaker 3: not like a huge area at least from spring through fall.

396
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 3: But they're not necessarily on that rock pile, you know,

397
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,679
Speaker 3: postponed to the you know, getting their feedbags on in

398
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 3: the fall. You'll find them on there. Sometimes sometimes they're

399
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,439
Speaker 3: just not there. They're over on that sand drop, and

400
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 3: it's you know, because a mental hatch or the crayfish

401
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 3: or molting or something. And I always think about that

402
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 3: with white tails, because we talk about them like that

403
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 3: buck beds in that swamp and he feeds in that field,

404
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 3: and it's like, yeah, two out of every seven days

405
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 3: he probably does that. But there are so many things

406
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,719
Speaker 3: going on that where that might have been affected by

407
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 3: a predator, might have been affected by hunters, or it

408
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 3: just could be that they felt like going the other

409
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 3: way and browsing or whatever. And we kind of try

410
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 3: to boil this down to like there's a simple solution

411
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Speaker 3: to this, right he here's his bed. I know he

412
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 3: uses this, I know he feeds in that alfalfa simple

413
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 3: but they don't follow that, like they that pattern is

414
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,719
Speaker 3: not like a day to day thing, especially if you

415
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,679
Speaker 3: get outside of that summer pattern bleeding into the fall season.

416
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,360
Speaker 3: You know, like if you get in past the first

417
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Speaker 3: couple of weeks of the September season, you know, if

418
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,399
Speaker 3: you can hunt that, those patterns start to die real quick.

419
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 3: Those deer didn't probably move, but they're not they're not

420
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,639
Speaker 3: following what we think is like an A to B

421
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 3: thing all the time. It's like so much more dynamic

422
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Speaker 3: than that.

423
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Speaker 2: So so can you you kind of said this, but

424
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Speaker 2: give me a little more detail. What what do you

425
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Speaker 2: do when you go to that first rock pile and

426
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 2: they're not there the way you were hoping they're going

427
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:45,919
Speaker 2: to be? What do you do after that?

428
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 3: Go to the next most likely? So you always break

429
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 3: it down like we're we're looking for something quick, give me,

430
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 3: give me some kind of look right. So we're throwing

431
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 3: a top water, we're throwing a swim bait. We're not

432
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Speaker 3: We're not flipping jigs, dragging two tubes. It's like, fast,

433
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 3: give me a clue, what's going on? You throw it

434
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 3: over that rock pile fifty times and you don't get

435
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 3: a blow up and nobody picks anything up. Then you're like, okay,

436
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 3: now we need to change. Are they here and they're

437
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 3: just not looking up? So we need to flip it.

438
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 3: Go through there again. Now you don't get bit and

439
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 3: you're like, they're probably not here because they should be biting.

440
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 3: The sun isn't up yet, the conditions are right, then

441
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 3: it's time to move. Or you know, like it's it's

442
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 3: always I know you see this a lot, but it's

443
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 3: always like you have this idea. You're like, I'm going

444
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 3: to go out and do this. They're going to eat

445
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 3: this way, or I'm going to catch them this way,

446
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 3: or I'm going to shoot a deer this way, and

447
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 3: then you get out there and it's just never quite

448
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 3: what you expect. You're out, you're making a million little

449
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 3: decisions to just because it's just it just doesn't work

450
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 3: that way. Like as much as we try to set

451
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 3: it up to be like they always come into the

452
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 3: food plot. Now always kill them on Halloween, Like okay, well,

453
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 3: now you have an east wind and it's eighty five

454
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 3: degrees or whatever, like, it just doesn't work.

455
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, how useful would it be for someone to take

456
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 2: that same approach you took when fishing for small moth

457
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 2: when they're not where they are or the way where

458
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 2: you wanted them to be in the first place. Take

459
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 2: that same approach and apply that to deer hunting. There's

460
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: probably a lot of folks that go and sit that

461
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 2: same rock pile and then just sit it again and

462
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 2: then set it again and don't know why am I

463
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 2: not seeing my deer here at the rock pile? Right?

464
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 2: But take what you just learned about what works in

465
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 2: small moth fishing, going to the next spot, testing a

466
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 2: couple different things. If you don't see what you're looking

467
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: for after those couple different tests, which might be a

468
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: couple sits, or looking for certain amounts of sign in

469
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 2: these areas or whatever it is, the way you're testing

470
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 2: the theory like you're talking about, and then moving to

471
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: the next metaphorical rock pile. That's a perfect example of

472
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 2: doing a non deer hunting thing and being able to recognize, oh,

473
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 2: this is a thing that could be applied to deer hunting.

474
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense when think about it

475
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 2: that way.

476
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 3: I'll do you one better on that, because this has

477
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 3: really been hitting home for me the last couple of years.

478
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 3: So if you if you think about what probably holds

479
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 3: back most deer hunters, it's that you know, probably this

480
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 3: is like the wird to hunt audience is probably a

481
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 3: weird does it doesn't entirely apply to them, but general

482
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 3: deer hunters want the hunt to happen where they want

483
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 3: it to happen. So they go to the stands they like,

484
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 3: They go to the spots they like, and they cross

485
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 3: their fingers and hope the hunt happens there. And when

486
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 3: it doesn't, they try it again, and they hope the

487
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 3: weather brings them in, or the seasonal timing or whatever.

488
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 3: I see so many parallels when I'm out bass fishing

489
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 3: to walleye fishermen that way, where it's like early season,

490
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,239
Speaker 3: if you've got some current or something, you know like

491
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 3: they're gonna be they're going to be coming back from

492
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 3: where they spawn and stopping at this point, in this

493
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 3: point before they get into their summer pattern out on

494
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,199
Speaker 3: the lakes, and you know then they're going to be

495
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 3: on a mud flat or a drop off or some

496
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 3: kind of reef or something. And so most of the

497
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 3: walleye fishermen I see, they come out for three or

498
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: four months and go to the same spots and they're

499
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 3: like they're either biting or they're not. So they're either

500
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 3: eating the worms I'm dragging or the minneros on a

501
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: jig or whatever, or they're not eating. Well, what I

502
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 3: started noticing the last couple of years is this like

503
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 3: shiner hatch going on in August. And what happened is

504
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: if I could find a bait ball, It's just like

505
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 3: fishing in the ocean. Walleyes northern is in Smallmouth are

506
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,719
Speaker 3: just following them around, and oftentimes they're pretty shallow and

507
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 3: blown up on a wind blown island or shore or whatever.

508
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 3: So what's happening is walleye fishermen are going. The walleyes

509
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 3: are out here. They're either in ten feet of water,

510
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 3: twenty feet of water or whatever. And if I if

511
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: I'm catching them, they're here. If not, they're here, but

512
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 3: they're not biting. And I'm in a situation where I'm

513
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: not looking for them. You know, it's bright sun, it's August,

514
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 3: it's hot. They're in three feet of water, just gorging

515
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 3: on this you know here today, gone to morraw food source.

516
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 3: So all it is is like when you when you're

517
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 3: a white tail hunter and you're like, I've got three stands,

518
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: I hunt this farm and you go out there over

519
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 3: and over again, and you're like, once every ten years,

520
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,479
Speaker 3: I get a shot at a big one and it's like,

521
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: the big ones are there. You got a Montreal camera.

522
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: You know they're there. So what's wrong. You're not going

523
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 3: to find them. You're you're only You're you're hoping that

524
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 3: it happens the way you want it to happen. But

525
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 3: that's not how it works because they know that they

526
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: know you want it to happen there because that's where

527
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,479
Speaker 3: you always go. And I think we don't think about that,

528
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 3: so we go, all right, well I didn't kill him

529
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 3: on the opener. I'm gonna I'm gonna lay low during October.

530
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 3: I'm gonna come back in and he's gonna he's gonna

531
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 3: follow a dough in during the run. And yeah, sometimes

532
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 3: that happens, but to really be in the game. You

533
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 3: have to look at it and go, if it's not

534
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 3: happening for me, it's not because they're not here, you know,

535
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 3: like it's it's because they're avoiding me, or they're doing

536
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 3: something different. What is that? Like? How can you solve

537
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 3: that problem? And that's the parallel to all this stuff

538
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 3: we're talking about, is it's just like a series of

539
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 3: proper problem solving over and over and over again, you know.

540
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 2: So yeah, so there's there's certain activities that we can

541
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,479
Speaker 2: do outside of deer hunting that will have that very

542
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: direct crossover. Like any kind of phishing I think is

543
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:19,719
Speaker 2: very applicable. Any different type of hunting is very applicable.

544
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 2: I think there's like a heck, I don't know, any

545
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 2: kind of decision making based activity anything that like really

546
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: puts stress on you to make decisions under pressure analyzing data.

547
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 2: I mean, I know we said chess isn't a good comparison,

548
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 2: but to what degree it is. There's like a certain

549
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: amount of like predicting moves and strategic decision making like

550
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. I think flex is a muscle

551
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: that helps you make better decisions as a deer hunter.

552
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,959
Speaker 2: There's another kind of line of activities that are not

553
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: deer hunting related but really help with a lot of

554
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: deer hunting things. And it's something both you and I've

555
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 2: talked about some of the past. We're both pretty active

556
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 2: and now and that's just like running or physical fitness,

557
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 2: different stuff like that, right, And we've we've dabbled in

558
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: this a little bit. But I think I find myself

559
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: going deeper and deeper and deeper into this world and

560
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 2: finding that A I'm getting like more enjoyment out of it,

561
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: and B I'm seeing how it's translating into the deer

562
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: hunting world. The more I like allow myself to do that,

563
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Yeah, So I think the

564
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,719
Speaker 2: last time we talked, I told you that I had

565
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: signed up for that Mountain Trail run thirty k right,

566
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 2: mm hm. So I've been training for that, and then

567
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: in training for that, I realized, like, oh man, that

568
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: thing's gonna kill me. I need to have like a

569
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 2: training race leading up to that. So now I'm signed

570
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: up for another trail half marathon that's like middle of

571
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: the road elevation game, but still a lot harder than

572
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: anything I've done in the past. So that's coming up

573
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: in a month and I'm actually like realizing that something

574
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: crazy happened. I don't know if you do this or not, Tony,

575
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: but for years I've just been like a road runner,

576
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 2: and then now I'm doing more and more trail running

577
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: and now I'm actually like really enjoying it. Like before

578
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: it was the thing I knew I should do, and

579
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: I did it and I liked it, but I kind

580
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: of didn't like where I was at. But now I'm

581
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: finding places where I can like just be out in

582
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: the woods, out in the hills or whatever, and that's

583
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: just like fun just being out there and noticing things.

584
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: And I've actually been trail running in some places that

585
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: I can deer hunt the public Liane, I can deer runt,

586
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: and I've been noticing like, oh, man, like look at that,

587
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: or I'm bumping deer off a little knowle. I'm like, huh,

588
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: interesting how they're betting here. And so it's another interesting

589
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 2: example of something that you know, I know, you preach

590
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: all the time, which just finding excuses to be in

591
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: the woods, finding any kind of excuse to be out there,

592
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: and you don't have to be dead set focused on deer,

593
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 2: but just being out there you have the opportunity to

594
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 2: have these little aha moments. You have the opportunity to

595
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: have these little discoveries, and that's been popping up my

596
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: deer in my running now more than I originally expected.

597
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look what you did there. Though, if

598
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 3: you want to talk about problem solving again, the first

599
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 3: problem you have is just how do I become a runner,

600
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 3: which is a hard one for most people to solve.

601
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 3: And then you start that and you run on a

602
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 3: treadmill or you run on the road, and you're like, okay,

603
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 3: I've gotten past the part where I'm of not being

604
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 3: a runner to being a runner, and then but you

605
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 3: still struggle, like it's still not like every day you're

606
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 3: like I cannot wait to go running. I mean, there's

607
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: a lot of times you're like this, I have to

608
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 3: solve for this daily to find this motivation or more

609
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 3: likely the discipline. And then you're like, okay, how do

610
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 3: I hold myself accountable If I sign up for this,

611
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: I'm not backing out. And then you discover along the

612
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 3: way you're like, well, it's actually a hell of a

613
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 3: lot more enjoyable to run through the woods than it

614
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 3: is on the road, and that's a hell of a

615
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: lot more enjoyable than running on a treadmill. And so again,

616
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 3: it's like, do something that challenges you at an incremental level,

617
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 3: that forces you to hold yourself accountable and it feeds

618
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 3: into everything else.

619
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's and that's exactly where I'm at now.

620
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: I'm the thing you just spelled out was exactly my trajectory,

621
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: like that I had, Like it was a struggle to

622
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: get like motivated to put on the running shoes and

623
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: go out for the run and do that stuff years ago,

624
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: and now like I am legitimately excited about it every time,

625
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: Like I'm looking forward to my next run. I'm looking

626
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 2: forward to a nine mile run with a bunch of

627
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: elevation gain, something I thought I never would want to do.

628
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: But that sounds like, man, that's gonna be great. That's

629
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: the best part of my day. And that just took,

630
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: like that incremental work. It took finding goals along the way,

631
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: it took challenging myself to do these things, and it

632
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: took like how do I find the version of this

633
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,959
Speaker 2: that's enjoyable for me? And like you said, that's a process.

634
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 3: So you've actually gotten to a point because I I

635
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 3: feel like I don't know. With my running. I'm I'm

636
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 3: kind of at a I'm at a weird spot with it.

637
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 3: I'm running quite a bit, and but I'm like, I

638
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: do it because it makes me feel good when i'm done.

639
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not doing it because like during my

640
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 3: runs and like I'm not super happy, like it's okay,

641
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: Like I'm I'm not. I don't hate it obviously, but

642
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: it seems like you found you're at a better place

643
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: with it because not only are you you're anticipating it,

644
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 3: You're you're enjoying the process. And I'm sure it makes

645
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 3: you feel pretty good, you know, knocking another good run

646
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 3: out at the end.

647
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I'm actually yeah, now, I'm actually like in

648
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: the moment just enjoying it. And I think there's two

649
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 2: things going on there. One is like it's been years

650
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: of building like a base. It kind of is back

651
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: to the deer hunting trajector, right, like you have to

652
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: have a long time of building that foundation to where

653
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 2: you just get it right enough to now be creative

654
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 2: with it. And so in this case, like the analogy

655
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: of running, for me, it's like just building a running

656
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 2: foundation so that doesn't hurt when you're running right, so

657
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: you can just like comfortably do it without it being miserable.

658
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: Like I'm I'm, I'm enough of a runner now that

659
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: it's not miserable to run. And then like the secret

660
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 2: sauce more recently has been like this is like so obvious,

661
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: but like go in a pretty place where there's not

662
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 2: a bunch of people and you don't need to worry

663
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: about getting hit by car. What on aha moment that

664
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: is and all of a sudden, like my run is

665
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: looking around like, man, this is beautiful. I like to

666
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 2: go hiking. I like to be outside hunting, Like this

667
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: is just being outside and getting a better workout. That's

668
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: like an easy win when you can make it enjoyable,

669
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: make it good for you, and also like you are

670
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: still building good habits that help you in so many

671
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: other things too, right, discipline.

672
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 3: Well for sure, And I don't I don't know do

673
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 3: you listen to podcasts when you run or do you

674
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 3: listen to music or what?

675
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 2: So I would say fifty percent of the time I

676
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: listen to a podcast or audiobook. I'm trying to do

677
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 2: more just no sound and just like thinking, so I'm

678
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: trying to I'd say it's a fifty to fifty now,

679
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: and I'm trying to encourage myself to do more no

680
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: listening so that I can have that like open space

681
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 2: to like think and you know, have those like free

682
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: association type moments happen.

683
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just curious because I when I left, I

684
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 3: love to listen to music, but I hate listening to podcasts.

685
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 3: When I run, I like listening to podcasts, but I

686
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 3: just if I listen to music, I tend to just

687
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: go in my head, like I can't zone out and

688
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: kind of take in the story or whatever. But I've

689
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 3: also found there's been times where, for whatever reason, I don't,

690
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 3: you know, my headphones are dead or whatever, but I'm

691
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 3: going running and I'll do that, and I'll be like, man,

692
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 3: I'm actually really enjoying this, just being able to think

693
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 3: through and kind of disassociate a little bit. And I

694
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 3: read something a long time ago when I was kind

695
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 3: of getting into this about how one of the biggest

696
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 3: mistakes people make when they try to like become a

697
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 3: runner or go to the gym and use the elliptical

698
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 3: or whatever, it is like it takes them too long

699
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 3: to settle into their routine on a daily basis. So

700
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 3: you know, you get there, it's like, oh, am I

701
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 3: going to log in a Netflix and watch a show?

702
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 3: Or am I going to try to find a podcast

703
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 3: now or something? And like, so what you find when

704
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 3: you when you sort of get into this habit is

705
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 3: like you're managing it. Like if I have a podcast

706
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 3: I really want to listen to, it makes me want

707
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 3: to run more. Like it was just dumb, but it's true.

708
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 3: And so you end up again you're you're solving for

709
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 3: a problem you anticipate. In case, my motivation isn't there

710
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 3: to just be like what can I do to make

711
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 3: this a little easier? You know, I look at this

712
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 3: like I've been doing a lot of work in the

713
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 3: white Tail Woods this winter because we've had such a

714
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 3: mild winter, and it makes me feel so good because

715
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 3: I'm I'm way ahead of where I knew. I had

716
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 3: a list of things I'm just gonna do, whether I

717
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 3: do them in May, June, July, or December, January, February, whatever,

718
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 3: and just getting to the point where I'm like, man,

719
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 3: I feel so set up for my little girls already

720
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 3: in Wisconsin on a lot of stuff and some of

721
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 3: the things I want to do and just those like

722
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 3: getting through those things, it helps you so much to

723
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 3: get to the next one and the next one and

724
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 3: understand what that process is, just for thinking about it

725
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 3: and planning around it and looking for that motivation.

726
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you brought up a couple of things that

727
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: I try to do in a lot of my deer

728
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 2: hunting world, and a lot of it stems from this

729
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 2: book called Atomic Habits. I know I've talked about. Have

730
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 2: you read that one? Yeah, so you know, in that one,

731
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 2: he just such a great job of pinpointing some of

732
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 2: those key ways to help you, you know, establish a

733
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: good habit or break a bad habit. And two of

734
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 2: the things you mentioned, make it obvious, make it easy,

735
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 2: make it rewarding. Like if you can do those things,

736
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: that really makes it more achievable, and it's going to

737
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 2: help you consistently do the thing you want to do.

738
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 2: So whether it's scouting, or whether it's shooting your bow

739
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 2: more often, or whether it's getting up in the morning

740
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: and going to the tree stand, like anything you can

741
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: do ahead of time, to make it obvious, to make

742
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 2: it rewarding, to make it easier. So like in the

743
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: case of going on to shoot, like I wrote, about

744
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 2: this in the Wired Dunt newsletter the other day. I

745
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,919
Speaker 2: want to shoot more consistently. If you want to shoot

746
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,439
Speaker 2: more consistently, ways you can do that are okay, Well,

747
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 2: you need to trigger something that reminds you, oh I

748
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: gotta go shoot. So okay, how about I hang the

749
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 2: bow right by the door and the back door, so

750
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: every time I walk it in out of the house,

751
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: I'm reminded, oh shit, I got to shoot today, and

752
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: then make it easy. Okay, so how about let's make

753
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: sure that you've got target right out the back door

754
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 2: close so that you don't even need to like, not

755
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 2: everybody can do this, but this is just an example.

756
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 2: Let's say there's a target right at the back door,

757
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 2: so you can see that trigger. Okay, there's the bow

758
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: I got to shoot today. All right, Well, I got

759
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 2: the target right there. I've got my arrows leaned up

760
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 2: here in the corner. Let me just grab them. I'll

761
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: get four arrows right now and just check that box.

762
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: At least get a little bit of a little bit

763
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: of a session in right now, and then make it rewarding.

764
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: So there's got to be some way, you know, to

765
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: reward yourself after that. So maybe man if as long

766
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: as I get my shots in today, I'm allowed to

767
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 2: do X or I don't know what it would be

768
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: in the case you made a good example, like when

769
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 2: you go run, you're allowed to listen to the podcast

770
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,280
Speaker 2: you want to get caught up on. Like there's different

771
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: little tricks that we can incorporate to do the things

772
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 2: we know we should do, but sometimes they're easy to

773
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 2: slack on or easy to procrastinate on or whatever it is.

774
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 2: And I think that it's funny we came to this

775
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 2: because of running, right, And I think that's why there's

776
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,959
Speaker 2: like the whole this ties back into what I'm talking about,

777
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 2: Like we can learn how to get better at these things,

778
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 2: whether it being building good habits or being disciplined or

779
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: whatever it is, in something like running or some other

780
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 2: sport you might be doing. And oh, by the way,

781
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: that's all going to help you as a deer hunter.

782
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean this this probably sounds like BS, but

783
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 3: I firmly believe it. It's like we are masters of

784
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 3: lying to ourselves, you know, and like we're masters of

785
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 3: believing it, you know. But once once you know, you

786
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 3: get an injury and you can't do something or you

787
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 3: lose this spot to hunt or whatever, like you realize

788
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 3: like it's kind of just on you, like that. There's

789
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 3: so much in life that you know, there's kind of

790
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 3: this mentality out there a lot of times where it's

791
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,439
Speaker 3: like I gotta blame the boomer generation or I gotta

792
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 3: I gotta like somebody else. It's somebody else's fault that

793
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 3: I am where I am at, right, But when you

794
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 3: talk about and you see this, I mean you see

795
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 3: a lot of shitty stuff in the white tail world too,

796
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 3: where it's like, well, if I had that guy's place,

797
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 3: or you know, like if I had those opportunities, it's

798
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 3: like you don't. And it's easy to sort of get

799
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 3: into that mentality, but really you just have to work

800
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 3: with what you have. And if you're holding yourself accountable

801
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 3: and not believing the lies that you want to tell

802
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 3: yourself to make life easier, I think good things happen

803
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 3: and it you know, we're so conditioned to want sort

804
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 3: of instant gratification and we're so conditioned to want like

805
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 3: that shortcut. But when you do something that there is

806
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 3: no way around it, Like if you're going to run

807
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 3: a thirty k in the mountains, there's no way around it,

808
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 3: like I don't care who your parents are, Like I

809
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 3: don't care what genes you're drawing off of, Like you're

810
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 3: just you don't start. You don't go from zero to

811
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 3: that quickly. That is a year line. It's like retirement

812
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 3: or anything else. Like, it's when you learn to hold

813
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 3: your self accountable and appreciate these like baby steps and

814
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 3: building up some discipline, it goes a long way. And

815
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 3: of course it feeds hunting like that's like, that's like

816
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 3: a foundational skill that you have to have to be

817
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 3: good at it.

818
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, is there anything else on the fitness or running

819
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: side of things in your world that has translated into

820
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 2: you having a aha moment as a hunter or that

821
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 2: has particularly helped you as a hunter that we haven't covered.

822
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 3: Man, I'll tell you what. So I started working out

823
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 3: like ten years ago, right when I quit drinking, just

824
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 3: because I knew I needed something. I was terrible at it.

825
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,959
Speaker 3: I was in terrible shape. And what I started doing

826
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: just just purely I didn't have any reason for it.

827
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 3: I started doing cardio and I started lifting weights. And

828
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 3: what I have found is I still there are times

829
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: where I'm like you, where I'm like I can't wait

830
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 3: to go run tonight, like it's the right weather and

831
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 3: I'm just feeling it. There's a lot of times like

832
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 3: I had this last night where I lifted in the

833
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 3: morning and I was like, I had a window where

834
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 3: I could do a run before I had to go

835
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 3: get my girls, and I did not want to do it.

836
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 3: I was like, I just and I forced myself to go,

837
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 3: and the first mile was torture, and after that I

838
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 3: felt great and I felt so good doing it. But

839
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 3: where I'm going with this is becoming a runner was

840
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 3: really hard. Becoming somebody who lifts weights consistently was pretty hard.

841
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 3: But what it feels like now is a freaking vacation

842
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 3: compared to my cardio days. And so this thing that

843
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 3: at one point in my life was was very hard

844
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 3: to do. You know. It's like it's humiliating going into

845
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 3: a gym where you don't know anybody and you've never lifted,

846
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 3: and you're you're super weak, and it's like you're you're

847
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 3: hyper aware that you're not like a lot of other people.

848
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 3: And so now like now when I look back on that,

849
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: like how far that I've come, Like, I'm like, that's

850
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 3: like a that is not even it doesn't even feel

851
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 3: like a workout the same way going for a six

852
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 3: or eight mile run does. And I'm like that, I

853
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 3: feel so lucky to get into a spot like that

854
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: in my life where just to get through that part

855
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 3: and now enjoy it so much because I'll tell you what, dude,

856
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 3: when I go hang stands or I'm working in the woods,

857
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 3: like I've been cutting down trees like crazy that time

858
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 3: in the gym, and you know, it directly translates to

859
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 3: like elk hunting really well, but white tails. You can

860
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 3: do a lot of physical labor out there, and just

861
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: the difference on uh, you know how I feel on

862
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 3: like a traveling hunt where I have to set up

863
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 3: a camp and carry stands in you know, we're often

864
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 3: setting up for camera guys and stuff. So it's like

865
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 3: that that is so beneficial to white tail hunting that

866
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 3: I didn't I didn't do it because of that, and

867
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 3: I didn't think it would matter at all. And I

868
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 3: tell you, like, I feel it all the time where

869
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm glad I go do that because it

870
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 3: makes this white tail work so much more tolerable.

871
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what do you think is the I don't

872
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 2: know if I want to said prescription, But for lack

873
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: of a better term, what's the prescription here? Is the

874
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 2: thing like having a non hunting physical activity of some

875
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 2: kind that that pushes you, and that you can have

876
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: that you have to build some discipline around and that

877
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 2: in some way challenges you. Like is that if we

878
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 2: had to distill it down to a simplified thing, is

879
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: that the takeaway here? Like for us it's running and

880
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 2: you lifting, Is that kind of like the thing that

881
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: we've found has been like one of those outside spheres

882
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: of influence that's really helped us.

883
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 3: I mean when you when you just look at the

884
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 3: direction of a lot of white tail hunting, you know

885
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 3: there's side by sides and four wheelers and the easy paths,

886
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 3: and we were there is a there is a way

887
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 3: to make white tail hunting not very physically demanding, and

888
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 3: it just is and it's just a part of it.

889
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 3: And we we tend to kind of lean into that

890
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 3: and showcase that a lot. There's a lot of money

891
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 3: in that, you know, like advertising that. But for a

892
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 3: lot of people listening to this who are like I

893
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 3: would like to draw that iouad tag once or I'd

894
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 3: like to travel to Ohio or from Pennsylvania to wherever.

895
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 3: Just alone of even if you did twenty minutes a

896
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 3: day or thirty minutes a day of something is going

897
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 3: to make you more successful out there. And what it

898
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 3: does for you is it directly translates to being able

899
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 3: to do things better, like more efficiently, quieter, all that stuff.

900
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: But you're just more willing to do stuff, you know

901
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like you're more willing to like you know,

902
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 3: I think about it this way. When you go on

903
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 3: a public land white tail hunt somewhere and you've never

904
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 3: been there, or you haven't been there in four years.

905
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 3: Usually you get there and you're like, I got a

906
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 3: way point here, I got a way point here, I

907
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 3: got a wait point here, and you're like, I'm going

908
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 3: to go in speed scout, speed scout, speed scout, figure

909
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 3: something out. And by the time you're like two or

910
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 3: three deep, like do I want to settle or do

911
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 3: I want to keep looking for that thing that's just

912
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 3: like this is it? And what I found for myself

913
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 3: is I just don't want to settle anymore. And it's

914
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 3: just easier. The better shape I'm in, the easier it

915
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 3: is for me to just walk into a spot that's

916
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 3: a mile off the road and go I don't like it.

917
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 3: You know, there's cattle in here or whatever, the ponds dry.

918
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 3: It's just it's not right. And just keep going till

919
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 3: you find it. That stuff's important.

920
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:18,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

921
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 2: Another facet of this pivoting a little bit, and this

922
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:24,399
Speaker 2: is this is a little bit of like a yes

923
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 2: and a lot of these things we've talked about. I

924
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 2: used to not allow myself or or thought I should

925
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: not give myself the time to do some of these

926
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: things because it was taking away from the deer stuff

927
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: I should do. Right, Like, there's a certain set of

928
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 2: folks who would tell you, like, if you're not spending

929
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 2: all your time on deer, you're not dedicated enough, you're

930
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 2: not going to be as good as I am, quote

931
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 2: unquote right. And I found the opposite. I think one

932
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 2: of the things, in addition to having some kind of

933
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: physical habit that does the things we just talked about,

934
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 2: I think another suggestion I would offer people within this

935
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 2: world is to allow yourself the freedom to chase curiosities,

936
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 2: to run down rabbit holes, and if it's going to

937
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 2: take you away from deer hunting for a little while,

938
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 2: if it's a thing that happens in the fall and

939
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 2: maybe will take some of your time, I would argue,

940
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 2: do it. I think that chasing curiosities, chasing new ideas,

941
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: trying new things, even if in the short term it

942
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: might take away from your deer focus or your dear

943
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 2: time or something, I think in the long run that

944
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: can help both tangibly and I think intangibly with your

945
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: satisfaction too. You know, there's this idea. There's another book

946
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:43,399
Speaker 2: I've been reading called Slow Productivity that Kell Newport, and

947
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 2: one of the big things he talks about is this

948
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 2: importance of seasonality in your life. And his argument has

949
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 2: basically been, you know, for thousands and thousands of years,

950
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: human beings evolved with a certain seasonality to how we live.

951
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 2: Right when, for you know, tens of thousands of years,

952
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: we were hunters and gatherers across the board, and there

953
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 2: was you know, there was an up and down. There's

954
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 2: an ebbing to the seasons in which there's times and

955
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 2: you were doing a lot, and there's times you weren't

956
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: doing so much, and there's times you did this kind

957
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 2: of thing, and then there are times that you did

958
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 2: this different kind of thing. And that was what we

959
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,879
Speaker 2: evolved to do. And then even within the last ten

960
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 2: thousand years when the agricultural revolution happened, there was still

961
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 2: a certain seasonality for many, many, many many years as

962
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 2: we all lived with the ebbs and flows of that

963
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: agricultural up and down harvest, planting, et cetera. Winter. But

964
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 2: now last one hundred two hundred years since the industrial Revolution,

965
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 2: now it's like, you know, there's none of that for

966
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 2: most of us. It's cranking out every little unit of

967
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 2: productivity for as many hours as you can get away with.

968
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 2: And that doesn't just apply to work. That applies to

969
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: our hunting too. I think, I think a lot of

970
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 2: times we look at our deer hunting as if we

971
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: are a factory trying to pump out filled deer tags. Right, So,

972
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: let me read a quote from this book about this

973
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: idea of seasonality, and kind of it's talking about work,

974
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 2: but sub in deer hunting. So he says the problem

975
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 2: with the virtual factory, and he's talking about knowledge workers

976
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 2: like people walking working in offices twenty four to seven.

977
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: The problem with the virtual factory, however, goes beyond the

978
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 2: fact that it makes us unhappy. It's also ineffective the

979
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 2: process of producing value with human brain, the foundational activity

980
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 2: of many knowledge sector roles can't be forced into a regular,

981
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: unvarying schedule. Intense periods of cognition must be followed by

982
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 2: quieter periods of mental rejuvenation. Energized creative breakthroughs must be

983
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 2: supported by the slower incubation of new ideas. So what

984
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 2: he's getting at here is, if you want to be

985
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 2: able to have your best ideas, if you want to

986
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: be your most creative self, if you want to be

987
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 2: your best version of yourself as a deer hunter, someone

988
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,240
Speaker 2: who's able to be effective, who's able to make those decisions,

989
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,439
Speaker 2: who's able to problem solve. Having these periods of slow down,

990
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 2: having these periods where you try new things, having these

991
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 2: periods where you step away from the usual, all of

992
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 2: that creates an environment where you do have this space

993
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 2: to all of a sudden think of these new things,

994
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 2: or the space to come back to deer hunting and

995
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: be rejuvenated and ready to dig that next step or

996
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 2: to do that next hard thing, or to you know,

997
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 2: if you came off of learning how to do X,

998
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 2: Y and Z, all of a sudden, you come back

999
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 2: to deer hunting next week and you're like, Hey, there's

1000
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 2: this thing I learned while I was learning to surf

1001
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 2: that actually has a whole lot of applicability here in

1002
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 2: the deer hunting world. So I think that that's another

1003
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 2: concept I kind of want to throw out there for

1004
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 2: us to think about, kind of related to that whole

1005
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: idea of like chasing different ideas and carry out curiosities.

1006
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 2: You know, my son is really getting into climbing, like

1007
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: early stages, but he's like really geeking out on like

1008
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 2: rock climbing. We were just in Joshua Tree National Park

1009
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 2: and we kind of went there because he's like really

1010
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 2: fixated on this kind of thing. He's constantly wanting to

1011
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: pretend like he's climbing the walls and stuff. And so

1012
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: we're there in the park and climbing boulders and do

1013
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 2: all this kind of stuff, and I realized, like, Okay,

1014
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to learn to do all this

1015
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 2: stuff because like I just need to make sure he's safe.

1016
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 2: Like I need to make sure that I know enough

1017
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 2: to hang with him enough to help him safely navigate

1018
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 2: this until he's like old enough. So I'm going to

1019
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 2: be picking up a new hobby and figuring out and

1020
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: taking lessons and doing all that. And I used to

1021
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 2: say I would use in the past, I say like,

1022
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 2: oh man, you can't have more hobbies, you can't have

1023
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 2: new things you're learning. But I think now like it's

1024
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: going to be a net benefit. It's going to push

1025
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 2: me in new ways. I'm going to learn new things.

1026
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 2: It's going to challenge me mentally and physically in different ways.

1027
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 2: And it might take me a couple of weekends away

1028
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,399
Speaker 2: from the woods or something. But my argument to you,

1029
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 2: Tony is that I think that's actually going to circle

1030
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 2: back and be good.

1031
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 3: Just for a second here, So you're telling me and

1032
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 3: all of the listeners that you're about to become a

1033
00:50:58,239 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 3: rock climber.

1034
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 2: I don't know if I would call myself a rock climber,

1035
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 2: but I'm going to learn how to rock climb and

1036
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 2: attempt it. Yeah, all right, buddy, what do you think

1037
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 2: about that?

1038
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:15,240
Speaker 3: You see, Well, I'm I have a weird thing with heights.

1039
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 3: I used to be super scared of heights and then

1040
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,439
Speaker 3: climbing into trees over and over and over again. I'm

1041
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 3: not you know, treacy and heights don't bother me at all,

1042
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,720
Speaker 3: you know, like being up on the roof of a house,

1043
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 3: you know, cleaning the gutters whatever, don't bother me at all.

1044
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 3: But I have a window where I hit a certain height,

1045
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 3: and I'm like, this is not for me. Everything in

1046
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 3: my being is like you just you're not supposed to

1047
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 3: be here. So it's it's curious for me to hear

1048
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,479
Speaker 3: somebody who's like, ah, my little boys wants a rock climb,

1049
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 3: so I'm going to just do that. I'm like, man,

1050
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 3: more power to you, buddy. I think I mean, it

1051
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 3: looks amazing, Like I think it's I think that's an

1052
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 3: amazing activity to get into if you're wired for it. Yeah,

1053
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 3: I'm just it is not what that'd be like if

1054
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 3: you were like, hey, I'm going to just go take

1055
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 3: a bath with a bunch of spiders, I'd be like,

1056
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 3: that's exactly the opposite of anything I want to do.

1057
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all gonna have some limits. Yeah, I mean,

1058
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 2: there's certainly gonna be a max. Like we're out there

1059
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: in the parks where we were in Joshua Tree for

1060
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 2: half a week and then Red Rock Canyon for half

1061
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 2: a week there in Nevada, and there's people climbing all

1062
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 2: over the place, and like, I'm watching there's like some

1063
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 2: people on some of these walls. They're like hundreds of

1064
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 2: feet tall, like they're way up there, and a couple

1065
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 2: of times I'm like, Okay, that's more than I could

1066
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 2: ever see myself doing. But like there's people doing something,

1067
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 2: you know, don't know, climbing up there, fifty sixty seventy

1068
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,959
Speaker 2: yards up, you know, one hundred feet up, one hundred

1069
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 2: and twenty feet up, Like I think I could do that,

1070
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 2: and I can. Like it's something I've seen from Afar

1071
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 2: from a long time, like just being active in like

1072
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 2: the outdoor recreation world, and like I've always admired that

1073
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 2: and thought like that looks really cool. But I'm you know,

1074
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 2: a little bit nervous about it and just knew like

1075
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 2: it's a little bit intimidating, not just like the height stuff,

1076
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 2: but I mean, like there's all this gear you gotta get,

1077
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 2: got to learn how to do all this stuff, gotta

1078
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 2: learn the techniques and then physical different kind of physical

1079
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 2: challenge than anything I've done. But I guess having my son,

1080
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 2: who's like really getting into it now has been like

1081
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 2: just that little extra nudge. And now I think I'm

1082
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 2: just at a place where I'm I guess I'm just

1083
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 2: recognizing how much value taking on these new things is

1084
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,919
Speaker 2: giving me. Like I can now look back and see,

1085
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 2: like what the running thing and now the trail running

1086
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 2: things done in my world is like added so much,

1087
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 2: and like before that was like the fly fishing thing

1088
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 2: coming into my world. And I think all these things

1089
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 2: like I know it's all going to circle back and

1090
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 2: help with my number one. And so that's why I

1091
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 2: guess I'm more willing to push outside of the norm

1092
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 2: because I see like it's it's it's it's filling the

1093
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 2: cup that then gives me more fuel for the rest

1094
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 2: of it, If that makes sense.

1095
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 3: Dude, I wholeheartedly endorse you doing as much dangerous stuff

1096
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 3: as possible. All I see is just my chance to

1097
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,439
Speaker 3: move up the totem pole at me just a little

1098
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 3: bit more.

1099
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,360
Speaker 2: I wrote you into my will Tony. Don't worry, the

1100
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 2: keys are all yours.

1101
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 3: But no, I love it, buddy, It's just not for me.

1102
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 3: There's some dangerous things that I would love to do.

1103
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 3: That's not one of them.

1104
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't have to be like the curiosity or

1105
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 2: the new thing doesn't have to be something dangerous, right,

1106
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 2: you did A foundation's podcast recently about Goblin Mode, about

1107
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 2: your Goblin shelfs. I know you thought nobody would see this, Tony,

1108
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: but I did. Can you elaborate on what this is

1109
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 2: and it's relevance to our conversation?

1110
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 3: So where this came from is and I feel so

1111
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 3: stupid for kind of not recognizing this and myself or

1112
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 3: specifically one of my daughters. Both of them do this,

1113
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,879
Speaker 3: but one of them is really into this. So when

1114
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 3: I was last fall, when I was hunt with Steve

1115
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 3: down in Oklahoma where we were hunting every you know,

1116
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 3: like every once in a while you'd find like a

1117
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 3: turtle shell in the woods, you know, obviously from a

1118
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 3: time when it flooded and this pain turtle died or whatever.

1119
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 3: And he was picking them up for his kids, and

1120
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 3: I was picking them up for my kids, not even

1121
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 3: you know, you just see it. You're like, that's cool,

1122
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 3: put it in your pack, bring it home. Yeah. And

1123
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 3: then I, you know, I found a shed antler when

1124
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 3: we were blood trailing his buck. And what I realized

1125
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 3: is I gave them to my daughter and she's like, oh,

1126
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 3: these are so cool. And then we did this Meet

1127
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 3: Eater Live event, you know, in December and Kevin Murphy

1128
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 3: brought us swamp rabbit skulls, you know, and I'm like,

1129
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 3: I don't as one does, right Anyway, I throw that

1130
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 3: in my pack and I bring it home and I'm like,

1131
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 3: my daughter thought it was so cool. So then we

1132
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 3: were looking up swamp rabbits and just you know whatever,

1133
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,439
Speaker 3: we went down the like rabbit hole. So it got

1134
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 3: me thinking when I went into her room for something,

1135
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 3: and I was like, man, she has a lot of

1136
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 3: like just stuff from us being out in the outdoors

1137
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 3: that I didn't know she picked up or agots or

1138
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 3: fossils or you name it. And I read about it

1139
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 3: just random on something and it was like, oh, that's

1140
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 3: a goblin shelf. And I was like that is like

1141
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 3: it's such a cool concept because we don't think about it.

1142
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm looking in your like you've got a

1143
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 3: bunch of shed antlers, and you're like we all kind

1144
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 3: of have this. Most of us have this version of

1145
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 3: ourselves where we like just find cool stuff and keep it.

1146
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 3: And when you think about that, that not only is

1147
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,399
Speaker 3: that sort of the spice of hunting that you don't

1148
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 3: think about that makes it really cool, right, or fishing

1149
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 3: or whatever, like just being outdoors is like just the unknown,

1150
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 3: Like you might find something that just whatever works for you.

1151
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 3: You know, you're on the beach and you find a

1152
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 3: shark's tooth or whatever. But then I started thinking about

1153
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 3: the times we're out there and how how easy it

1154
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 3: is when I'm with my daughters for us to get

1155
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 3: distracted from the mission and you know, walk up that

1156
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 3: ravine on the hillside and look for fossils, and then

1157
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 3: when you're doing that, you're like, oh, here's a deer

1158
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 3: crossing I never knew was here. And so it kind

1159
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 3: of just got me thinking, I'm like, man, if you

1160
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,760
Speaker 3: if you kind of open yourself up to the curiosity

1161
00:56:58,200 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 3: of just not being like I have to go skull

1162
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 3: so this, this, this and this, and that's my day

1163
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 3: done or my weekend done. But if you're like, I'm

1164
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 3: gonna just go explore, Like I'm just gonna go, like

1165
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 3: maybe maybe twenty percent of my mission is just to

1166
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 3: see this area I might deer hunt, but being real

1167
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 3: open to just whatever kind of trips my trigger and

1168
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 3: keeps me out there. And I think that that is

1169
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 3: like an intangible to a lot of really good hunters.

1170
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 3: Is they just they're just looking at the world out

1171
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 3: there a little bit different than like, you know it

1172
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 3: take take like an over the counter elk hunt. A

1173
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 3: lot of people go out there and they're like, I'm

1174
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 3: gonna blow this bugle on every ridge I can until

1175
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 3: one sounds off. And you might do that the entire

1176
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 3: ten days you're there and not get a single response.

1177
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 3: And so you're like, that's a failure because I went

1178
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 3: out with this plan and it didn't work. But if

1179
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 3: you go out there and you're like, I never get

1180
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 3: to be in the mountains, you know, like I you know,

1181
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 3: you know how it is. I'm like, I spend maybe

1182
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 3: ten days a year in the mountains, and I find

1183
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 3: so much cool stuff, just like plants and you know,

1184
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 3: bear claw markings on the trees and whatever. And when

1185
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 3: you kind of go into it that way, and you're

1186
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 3: like you become a part of that environment in a

1187
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 3: way that's just like a little bit different than just

1188
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 3: like I gotta get in here killing el can get

1189
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 3: out and it leads to good stuff, like just looking

1190
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 3: for rocks leads to good stuff. And so I think

1191
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 3: going goblin mode is it's a good idea. That's why

1192
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 3: I wrote about it.

1193
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 2: Love I love it and I love that it's it's

1194
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: it's uh super nerdy first off, and the fact that

1195
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 2: you call it Goblin mode and that you talked about

1196
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 2: it in that podcast. You even reference something about Lord

1197
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 2: of the Rings and Gollum in there, which I loved,

1198
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 2: and it really added to your sci fi fantasy persona

1199
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 2: that you're developing here within the Mediator universe. You're becoming

1200
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 2: like the Gandolf of the Mediator Crew, which is kind

1201
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 2: of interesting.

1202
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 3: Dude, I'll take it. Hey, I learned a term for

1203
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 3: flat earthers the other day. You know what it is?

1204
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 3: A furf?

1205
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 2: That's great? Like that, Yeah, another part of you that

1206
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 2: people don't know as much about that I'm kind of

1207
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 2: interested in unpacking here. In addition to Spaceman Gandolf sci

1208
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 2: fi fantasy, Tony is guitar Tony, music man, Tony. What's that?

1209
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 2: What's that about for you? What role does that play?

1210
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 2: How is that in any kind of way relevant to

1211
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 2: you as a hunter.

1212
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 3: It's challenging, man, I am. I am not a natural

1213
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 3: musician at all. I can't play by ear. I mean

1214
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 3: I could a little bit now, but like a real

1215
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 3: bass level like I music for me. I love music

1216
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 3: so much but playing music. Writing music is like a

1217
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 3: it is so hard for me. It does not come natural.

1218
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 3: And so so, just as an example, my one daughter

1219
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 3: who really goes hard on the goblin shelf thing. She's

1220
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 3: I'm teaching her guitar right now, and she picks it

1221
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 3: up so much faster than I did, and I just

1222
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 3: look at it and like it's it's not effortless. She's trying,

1223
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 3: but it's just she's just more naturally inclined to it.

1224
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 3: And so for me, just loving music and loving the

1225
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:26,479
Speaker 3: idea of playing guitar, it's it's one of those things

1226
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 3: that I can do any I do it almost every

1227
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 3: day in my life to some extent, playing acoustic or whatever.

1228
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 3: But it is just kicks my ass consistently, Like it

1229
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 3: is just hard for me. And I love that because

1230
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 3: I know, you know, it's just like if you look

1231
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 3: at going out on public land and killing a big buck,

1232
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 3: you know how hard that is. Like I don't care

1233
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 3: what state you're in, you know, it's it's just generally

1234
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 3: not that easy. But there are people who can do

1235
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 3: it consistently, and they can they can take different paths

1236
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 3: to get there. And I always look at that and

1237
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 3: I go if if why not me? Right, Like, why

1238
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 3: not me? Like when I see an eight year old

1239
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 3: on YouTube who can play guitar better than me, I'm like,

1240
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 3: why not me? And it just it forces me to

1241
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 3: just keep keep working at it. And I think again,

1242
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 3: I think that you know, and you alluded to this earlier.

1243
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 3: We have pretty easy lives a lot of us, Like

1244
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 3: if we if we have the free time to hunt

1245
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 3: white tails a lot, and you can listen to a

1246
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 3: podcast a lot, like your life is probably better than

1247
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 3: a lot of people in the world, you know, but

1248
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 3: without some level of challenge, like without without us being

1249
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 3: like I'm going to put myself in an uncomfortable situation

1250
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 3: and just like try to advance myself somehow, you just atrophy.

1251
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 3: I just believe that. And so, like guitar has been

1252
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 3: one of the most frustrating things for me ever. I

1253
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 3: mean it literally is like when I first started bow hunting,

1254
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 3: and I was like, I don't know if I'm ever

1255
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 3: going to kill one. And then you know, when I

1256
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 3: finally started doing that, it was like, You're never going

1257
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 3: to kill a big one, you know, Like it it

1258
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 3: was like an almost almost unattainable thing. And so for

1259
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 3: a guitar. For me, I'm like, if I hear a

1260
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 3: you know, a song by tool or something like that

1261
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 3: sounds so amazing, I'll never be able to play it.

1262
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 3: But sometimes if you sit down and you work at it,

1263
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 3: like over time, and you build like the parts of

1264
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 3: it real slow, it becomes something that you can actually do.

1265
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 3: And I love that about music.

1266
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can see. I can see that being

1267
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 2: both a way to challenge yourself and also a way

1268
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 2: to lose yourself in something which I think has a

1269
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 2: lot of value, Like activities in which you are forced

1270
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 2: not to think about anything else. Is that the case

1271
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 2: with guitar for you?

1272
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 3: One hundred percent? I mean, if if you set out

1273
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,479
Speaker 3: to learn something new, it is a very specific kind

1274
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 3: of task, right if you like if I if I

1275
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 3: have a big writing day where I have some deadlines

1276
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 3: or something, and I will hit a wall with writing.

1277
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 3: I've learned this about myself where I have X amount

1278
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 3: of words that I can get out and then I

1279
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 3: got to do something else, And a lot of times

1280
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 3: I'll go, you know, turn on my electric or I'll

1281
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 3: go upstairs and play one of my acoustics for just

1282
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 3: like twenty minutes and I won't I won't think about

1283
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 3: I'm not learning anything new, I'm playing something I know

1284
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 3: or just messing around, and it is a mindless It's

1285
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 3: sort of like at certain points during a run where

1286
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 3: you don't think about the run at all. You're just

1287
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 3: kind of in your head like your flow state. Yeah,

1288
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 3: you're you're out somewhere else. And for me, I can

1289
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 3: come back to the computer and write again, and it's

1290
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 3: just like it's just like a reset moment, and it

1291
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 3: is very important for me because there are times where

1292
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 3: I'll try to push it and it just does not work.

1293
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely have the same kind of thing.

1294
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 3: For me.

1295
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 2: It's like when I find myself in that kind of

1296
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 2: spot where I'm blocked or just kind of hitting a wall,

1297
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 2: it's always like you got to shake it up physically,

1298
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 2: change your body, it changes your mind, and so it

1299
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 2: might be go for the run or just go out.

1300
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 2: Like yesterday, I just same thing I was writing and

1301
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 2: just needed to like get outside and shake myself out,

1302
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 2: and so I just went out in the backyard and

1303
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 2: shot hoops for fifteen minutes, just like a kid. There's

1304
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 2: like a little kid like shooting hoops and like running

1305
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 2: around like by myself. I thought to myself, like anyone

1306
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 2: who's watching this grown adult at like one in the afternoon,

1307
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 2: and my hoop is lower because my kids are like

1308
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 2: my son's like trying to get better basketball, So it's

1309
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 2: like a lower hoop. There's a grown man at one

1310
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 2: o'clock in the afternoon run around the court shooting like

1311
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 2: it might be a little weird, but it was just

1312
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 2: what I needed to kind of reset the gears, and

1313
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 2: I was able to sit back down the desk and

1314
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 2: do the thing.

1315
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 3: I love that I love thinking about you doing.

1316
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 2: That back to learning something new, though I wish that

1317
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 2: I could remember the exact details, but I know. I

1318
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 2: read about some studies that it pointed to the value

1319
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 2: of being a beginner at something again and how a

1320
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 2: lot of folks don't do that, Like they they's become

1321
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 2: adults and they learn their thing and they learn their job,

1322
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 2: and they just do the same thing forever. And they

1323
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 2: talked about how that really causes you to stagnate in

1324
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 2: so many ways. But if you can foster a beginner's

1325
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 2: mindset again, and if you can flex and exercise those

1326
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 2: like beginner learning muscles, it helps with everything else. So

1327
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 2: without remembering the specifics the basic gist of these studies,

1328
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 2: and the argument is like, by consistently tackling new things,

1329
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 2: like this year, I'm going to learn to climb, Next year,

1330
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to learn the piano. Three years from now,

1331
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to try to learn how to scuba dive.

1332
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 2: Like by doing that kind of stuff, it like helps

1333
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 2: your synapses fire and connect differently. It makes future learning,

1334
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 2: It makes whatever other tasks you're trying to do cognitively,

1335
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 2: it makes it easier to do those things because there's

1336
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 2: something special going on in your mind when you're learning

1337
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 2: something new, and if you're working those muscles, and the

1338
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 2: only way you can work those muscles is by doing

1339
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 2: the new thing, that then translates to everything else. I

1340
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 2: think I should have found these studies to be'll speak

1341
01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 2: to because that perfectly proves the kind of idea we're

1342
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 2: discussing here, which is like man adding in these new things,

1343
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 2: learning a new hobby, whatever, it's going to come back

1344
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 2: and make you mentally or physically more prepared to do.

1345
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 2: In this case, the number one deer hunting focus for

1346
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 2: a lot of us.

1347
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, dude, on that point, really, how many

1348
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 3: people have you talked to when you're like, oh, I'm

1349
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 3: going to X state or Y state to hunt and

1350
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 3: people are like, why you have white tails right here? Yeah,

1351
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 3: I mean that happens all the time, or you know.

1352
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 3: I mean that's a message we've been preaching a long time.

1353
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 3: When you when you go somewhere new, when you leave

1354
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 3: the home farm, that's when you grow. Like that's that

1355
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 3: and it does something for you that you're just not

1356
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 3: going to get from that place. You've hunted a lot,

1357
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 3: and we so often look at it as only a

1358
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 3: means to go kill something bigger and not be in

1359
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 3: a different environment and not get better at this, And

1360
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 3: I think that's a huge mistake, Like I think, and

1361
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 3: I don't know how again, Like I don't know how

1362
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 3: you get people to understand that without just like go

1363
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 3: do it, Like just go see what that's like and

1364
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 3: you'll realize. But you can't. You can explain that to somebody,

1365
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 3: but they're not going to understand it, Like why if

1366
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 3: I can kill one hundred and sixties at home, Like,

1367
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 3: why would I go somewhere and hunt one hundred inched

1368
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 3: to year? Like doesn't make any sense? And it's like

1369
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 3: because that's not what it's about.

1370
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's all about But number one, that's not

1371
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 2: what it's about. But number two, my argument to that person,

1372
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 2: if they want to stay with that mindset, is that

1373
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 2: it will still help you kill your one sixties more

1374
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 2: effectively in the future.

1375
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1376
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 2: Well, back to that idea, like lateral thinking, like the

1377
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 2: only way you can get new wells of knowledge to

1378
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 2: pull from to help you in your original thing. The

1379
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:39,919
Speaker 2: only way to do that is to put yourself into

1380
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 2: new situations, new environments, so you can pull these disparate

1381
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 2: ideas together. The stuff you learn the big Woods maybe

1382
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 2: will help you in Iowa. The stuff that you learn

1383
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 2: in the swamps of Florida very well, my hub help

1384
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 2: you in northern Michigan. I mean we both experienced that.

1385
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:00,040
Speaker 2: I've I've experienced that, like that year I did the

1386
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 2: deer country thing, like really pushing what I tried, Like man,

1387
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 2: so many of those things have translated back to my

1388
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 2: usual in ways I never would have expected. There's there's

1389
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 2: a whole lot that can be learned by putting yourself

1390
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 2: into these new worlds.

1391
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and that's totally true. And it's also it

1392
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 3: sort of highlights some of our blind spots too, Like

1393
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 3: what we think we know, like, I know that you're

1394
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:27,960
Speaker 3: heading down to fish down in the ocean here next month.

1395
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 3: I am too. And the first time that I ever

1396
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 3: fish was in the ocean was down in the Keys

1397
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 3: and my wife and I went on a little vacation

1398
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:40,720
Speaker 3: and I wasn't going to fish. And when we got there,

1399
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 3: there was a fishing pier. We walked out on it.

1400
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 3: There was fish everywhere, and she's like, just go to

1401
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 3: the tackle shop. Just do what you gotta do, because

1402
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 3: I know what's coming.

1403
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 2: She could see.

1404
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 3: Dude. I drove down to that tackle shop and just

1405
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 3: bought like a cheap combo whatever. And I and the

1406
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 3: guy working there, he said, well, where are you staying?

1407
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 3: And I told him and he was like, buy these

1408
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 3: jigs by some shrimp. Drop them to the bottom. You'll

1409
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 3: catch fish all day long. I'm like, dude, I know

1410
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 3: how to fish. Don't worry. But I bought the stuff anyway,

1411
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 3: just whatever. So I go out there and I walk

1412
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 3: out on that pier and I'm like, I know how

1413
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 3: to catch fish, and so I do what I do

1414
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:16,599
Speaker 3: and I cast and I caught a barracuda on the

1415
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 3: first cast, and I was like, see, like I know

1416
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 3: what I don't and then dude, I could not catch

1417
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 3: a fish. Just it was like that one barracuda who

1418
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:26,679
Speaker 3: was waiting there to make me look like I knew

1419
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 3: what I was doing. And then finally I'm like, I

1420
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,680
Speaker 3: don't know. So I did exactly what he said and

1421
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 3: it was non stop fish after that, and I was like, Oh,

1422
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,760
Speaker 3: there's plenty to learn in this stuff that, you know,

1423
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 3: like we think we think we know, Like you know

1424
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 3: how it is. You talk to people who have a

1425
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 3: good place to hunt and they kill big deer and

1426
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,680
Speaker 3: they're like experts, I can do it anywhere, and I'm like,

1427
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 3: I bet you can't. You know. I sat in a

1428
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 3: tree stand one time filming a show when I was

1429
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:58,000
Speaker 3: at bow Hunter and the camera guy we were talking

1430
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 3: about public land whitetail hunting. I was it was, you know,

1431
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 3: this was like ten years ago and I was on

1432
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 3: like a good run and a bunch of states, and

1433
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 3: he was like, yeah, I could do that if I

1434
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 3: had the time, and I was like, and I didn't

1435
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 3: know that much about him. So as we kind of

1436
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 3: got to know each other, at one point he called

1437
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 3: his dad, who had they hunt in southwestern Wisconsin, and

1438
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 3: at that point you could bait. And he was telling

1439
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 3: his dad to go put out corn by his stands,

1440
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 3: and I was like, well, do you, like, do you

1441
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 3: hunt anywhere else? He's like, well, no, we just hunt

1442
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 3: down there on the farm. And I was like, I

1443
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 3: don't think you know what you're talking about that, buddy, Like,

1444
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 3: but it's you know, in your head, you're like, well,

1445
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 3: I killed deer here, so I'm I'm a good deer hunter.

1446
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 3: And man, you know what it's like when you get

1447
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 3: out of your comfort zone, it's real easy to suck

1448
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,559
Speaker 3: so much like, it's real easy to be so bad

1449
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 3: at it. But that's part of the.

1450
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 2: Process Exhibit A and B right here. Mostly you know

1451
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 2: in the screen, in the screen, you're A just so

1452
01:10:59,160 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 2: you know so.

1453
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 3: In my head that you're AI B until you fall

1454
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:04,640
Speaker 3: off a cliff then I become here.

1455
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. So with that in mind, let's uh, well, I

1456
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 2: guess do you have anything else major within this world

1457
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:14,640
Speaker 2: of topics that you want to cover that we have

1458
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 2: and yet or should we like wrap a.

1459
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:18,480
Speaker 3: Ball in this? We can wrap her up, buddy.

1460
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 2: All right? So I feel like I'm going to try

1461
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 2: to list like the big takeaways I'm remembering here like

1462
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,600
Speaker 2: I think number one, it's the big theme here is

1463
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 2: give yourself permission to do new things, to try new things,

1464
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:37,240
Speaker 2: to let yourself out of the white tail only box

1465
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 2: or the white tail the way you always have box.

1466
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 2: I think be tackling new challenges physically and mentally. Both

1467
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 2: can push you in new ways, can help you build

1468
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 2: discipline or strengthen physical or mental muscles that are going

1469
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:53,599
Speaker 2: to help you as a deer hunter. I think number

1470
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:56,599
Speaker 2: three it's always keeping white tail mode kind of active

1471
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 2: in the back of your mind though, when you're doing

1472
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,479
Speaker 2: these things as much as possible, so that you're open

1473
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 2: to these new ideas, so that you have the opportunity

1474
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 2: to have these like lateral thinking moments like I talked about,

1475
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 2: where you can connect the dots between what you're doing

1476
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 2: is on your small moll fishing trip, or what you're

1477
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 2: doing when you're playing chess with your buddy, or what

1478
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 2: you're doing when you're playing the guitar, and all of

1479
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:20,200
Speaker 2: a sudden you have this aha, like, oh man, this

1480
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:21,640
Speaker 2: is the kind of thing that's actually gonna help me

1481
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 2: as a deer hunter. This is this is the way

1482
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:26,760
Speaker 2: to solve that problem more. Man, that's a different way

1483
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:30,439
Speaker 2: to approach the my access problem or whatever it might be, Like,

1484
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 2: You've got to put yourself into new environments, both literally

1485
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 2: and figuratively to grow to get better. We need change,

1486
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 2: we need diversity, we need seasonality in our year, even

1487
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 2: to allow yourself like the mental space to come back

1488
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 2: to deer hunting, cot contrott and ready to go. I

1489
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:55,680
Speaker 2: think those are like my big takeaways from this, and

1490
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 2: hopefully like my thought with all this was that through

1491
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 2: some of these examples of our own lives, it would

1492
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 2: either inspire folks to try some new things or help

1493
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:07,120
Speaker 2: them realize, like, oh, this other stuff I've got it

1494
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 2: is pretty valuable. I should do more of that. Or

1495
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 2: I can challenge myself in new ways, or I can

1496
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 2: convince my wife or husband that this is an okay

1497
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 2: to keep doing because it's helping in this kind of way.

1498
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:20,880
Speaker 2: That's what I think we're trying to get here. Did

1499
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 2: I miss anything? What else did you add?

1500
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 3: The only thing I would say is any anything like

1501
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 3: this just understanding how important baby I know it's cliched,

1502
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:32,720
Speaker 3: but baby steps matter. Like you, you're just not going

1503
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,440
Speaker 3: to jump the line man like on anything that's worthwhile

1504
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:39,720
Speaker 3: to do. It just takes. It takes a lot of repetition,

1505
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 3: Like you have to understand that, like whether it's you know,

1506
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,120
Speaker 3: stacking up white tail seasons until you finally start getting

1507
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 3: things right, which is a multi year deal running whatever,

1508
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:53,200
Speaker 3: just just the act of doing it, like committing to

1509
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 3: it daily, weekly, whatever. It doesn't have to be you know,

1510
01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:00,599
Speaker 3: forty hours a week, like twenty minutes a day matters

1511
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 3: a lot to a lot of stuff.

1512
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:07,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, very true. All right, buddy, Well, thanks for

1513
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:12,600
Speaker 2: joining me for this winding surprising. I don't know what

1514
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 2: else you would say to describe this conversation, but we

1515
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 2: we established that you like you have to pleate guitar.

1516
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 2: You're into the Lord of the rings. You were throwing

1517
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 2: out Lord of the rings references. You had this whole thing.

1518
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure you're pegged now. Anyways, we're gonna wrap

1519
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 2: it up before you can dispute that any further. Thank

1520
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 2: you for joining us.

1521
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 4: Everyone.

1522
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 2: We appreciate you tuning in. Take this permission slip to

1523
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 2: go try new things, to explore new areas, to bring

1524
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 2: in new ideas back to your white tail world. Take

1525
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 2: advantage of that, get out there, get outside, challenge yourself

1526
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 2: and until next time, stay wired Ton