Speaker 1: Missing in Arizona contains graphic depictions of violence and may
Speaker 1: not be suitable for all listeners. There are people out
Speaker 1: there who have information that could help solve this case.
Speaker 1: Persons of interest, including someone who allegedly spoke to Robert
Speaker 1: Fisher after the murders, someone with whom he was having
Speaker 1: an ongoing affair, and the camper who located Mary Fisher's
Speaker 1: SUV and then himself disappeared. Some have key details but
Speaker 1: are likely not involved in any other way. Some may
Speaker 1: have helped Robert before the murders, some may have helped
Speaker 1: him after. At the least they can help us understand
Speaker 1: what happened. At the most they can help us find
Speaker 1: him today. Just proving he lived past April two thousand
Speaker 1: and one and did not die in the wilderness would
Speaker 1: be a huge break in the case. In this episode,
Speaker 1: I'm going to examine these people. Who are they, what
Speaker 1: do they know? What did they do? From iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Neon thirty three, I'm John Walzac and this is Missing
Speaker 1: an air the story of a man who disappeared after
Speaker 1: allegedly killing his wife and kids, blowing up their suburban home,
Speaker 1: and escaping into the wilderness. Twenty three years later. I'm
Speaker 1: hunting Robert Fisher and I need your help.
Speaker 2: Sean.
Speaker 1: April thirteenth, two thousand and one, three days after the
Speaker 1: Fisher house explodes, nine to fifteen PM, a phone rings
Speaker 1: at the Scottsdale Police Department. An informant shares the name
Speaker 1: of a man, Sean, who allegedly knows where Robert Fisher
Speaker 1: is hiding in the mountains. Detectives are intrigued. This is
Speaker 1: the second time in only seventy two hours that Shawn's
Speaker 1: name has come up. A US Marshall heard from a
Speaker 1: different informant that Sean was speaking to Fisher after the
Speaker 1: murders by phone. So now two sources have said that
Speaker 1: Shawn either knows where Fisher is or that he's currently
Speaker 1: in contact with him. Police interviews Sean. He confirms that
Speaker 1: he and Robert are friends. They met at Paradise Springs
Speaker 1: Community Each church seven or eight years ago. They also
Speaker 1: shared two close mutual friends, Ken Hodgson and Sandy Gillespie.
Speaker 1: In recent years, Robert acted erratically, Sean says, on hunting
Speaker 1: trips he would randomly shoot guns at inappropriate times. He
Speaker 1: was also likely having affairs, but Sean doesn't know with
Speaker 1: whom the area's Robert knows best. He says, our unit
Speaker 1: twenty three near Young and five B south north of Payson.
Speaker 1: Detectives ask if he's talking to Robert by phone. Absolutely not,
Speaker 1: He says. The murders are a tragedy. If Robert contacts him,
Speaker 1: he'll call the police immediately. In twenty twenty three, I
Speaker 1: speak to Sean by phone after Robert disappeared. After the murders,
Speaker 1: the police got hundreds, if not thousands of tips. One
Speaker 1: of the tips that they got was from an infour
Speaker 1: minute who alleges that you were speaking to Robert after
Speaker 1: he disappeared, trying to get him to turn himself in,
Speaker 1: and that he was in the mountains near Winslow. Can
Speaker 1: you address that? Was that accurate at all?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: No, no, I never spoke to Robert after that. I
Speaker 4: mean I would have made a cistans arrest, you know,
Speaker 4: and turn him in. That kind of behavior is unacceptable
Speaker 4: if he deserves.
Speaker 2: To pay for his crimes. I mean I really liked
Speaker 2: his son. He was cool.
Speaker 1: If Robert were to have reached out to anybody in
Speaker 1: terms of a friend, who do you think he would
Speaker 1: have reached out to?
Speaker 4: Well, he had a pretty close relationship with pastor Ken
Speaker 4: Hodginson from Paradise Springs Church. I think Ken had some
Speaker 4: insight into his personality that went beyond anybody else that
Speaker 4: were just acquaintances with him.
Speaker 2: I think Robert probably talked to him because that's what
Speaker 2: Ken does.
Speaker 4: That's his speciality is helping people with their demons. He's
Speaker 4: as much of a therapist counselor as he is a minister.
Speaker 1: Shawn never expected to hear from Robert after the murders because.
Speaker 4: He knew my personality. I'm not going to go along
Speaker 4: with that. I mean, that's heinous, that's evil man. I
Speaker 4: was pissed for a long time out of smoke.
Speaker 2: Check him.
Speaker 4: Who would have come down to that, either made an
Speaker 4: assisting resident. He didn't go quietly. I'd had to shoot him.
Speaker 4: I was perfectly prepared to take steps. That's just some
Speaker 4: evil shit. So no, yeah, that's totally false. I'd be
Speaker 4: curious to find out who the informal was it said
Speaker 4: that Ken Hodgson.
Speaker 1: Everyone tells me that if anyone knows Robert's secrets, it's
Speaker 1: Ken Hodgson. Ken and Robert grew up together in Tucson.
Speaker 1: Ken later became a pastor Robert attended his church in
Speaker 1: the lead up to the murders, Robert told Ken that
Speaker 1: Mary wanted a divorce. Ken later speculated to the FBI
Speaker 1: that Robert was gay. Even if he has inside information,
Speaker 1: though he's in a tough spot as a pastor, he's
Speaker 1: obligated to keep secrets, not share them except in extreme circumstances.
Speaker 1: After the murders, Ken feared for his safety. He no
Speaker 1: longer lives in Arizona. I try to reach him. He
Speaker 1: never responds Dale Hodgson, Ken's brother and Robert's former hunting buddy.
Speaker 1: If Robert confided in Ken and Ken confided in anyone else,
Speaker 1: it's likely Dale. Dale is also a key witness about
Speaker 1: another person of interest, the Hermit. I'll get to him
Speaker 1: in a minute, but first, when I contact Dale, this
Speaker 1: is what he tells me via email.
Speaker 5: John, I do not know anything about Robert's personal life.
Speaker 5: I went hunting with him a couple of times, and
Speaker 5: that's it. I would love to see Robert brought to justice.
Speaker 5: I do not know about the hermit, or about anyone
Speaker 5: in his personal life, male or female.
Speaker 2: Good luck Dale the Hermit.
Speaker 1: Though Dale now says he doesn't know anything about the hermit.
Speaker 1: That's not what he told police in two thousand and one.
Speaker 1: In December two thousand, four months before the murders, he
Speaker 1: said he and Robert went on an elk hunting trip
Speaker 1: about twenty miles north of Payson. Dale's son accompanied them.
Speaker 1: They stayed at the Happy Jack RV Park near the
Speaker 1: town of Clint's Well, arriving the night of Thursday, December seventh,
Speaker 1: and leaving the morning of Sunday, December tenth. Robert stuck
Speaker 1: around a bit longer by himself. Much of the trip.
Speaker 1: Dale and his son went one way, Robert another. One day,
Speaker 1: while riding his ATV, Robert stumbled upon another man also
Speaker 1: on an ATV. The hermit, an older guy who lived
Speaker 1: in the area year round in a small trailer. Dale
Speaker 1: only met him twice for about ten minutes. He described
Speaker 1: him as a white male about seventy years old, five
Speaker 1: to nine, one hundred and eighty pounds, with whiskers, wearing
Speaker 1: insulated overalls and a black beanie cap. The hermit was
Speaker 1: from Mesa. He had a white collar career, possibly at Motorola.
Speaker 1: Then he had heart problems, quit his job, got a divorce,
Speaker 1: gave up on society, and retreated into the woods sometime
Speaker 1: around nineteen ninety three or ninety four. He started with
Speaker 1: a barebones trailer. Over time, he added solar power, a
Speaker 1: fridge that ran on propane, and possibly a TV, though
Speaker 1: he didn't watch it. He spent his days collecting firewood
Speaker 1: and only went into town once a month for medication.
Speaker 1: Robert loved all of this, the solitude, the languid days outside,
Speaker 1: a crisp pine scented pulsating breeze, and escape from society.
Speaker 1: The two men spent a lot of time together. Dale
Speaker 1: says alone after the trip, Robert told at least two
Speaker 1: other people about the hermit, Van Hodgson and a co
Speaker 1: worker who doesn't want to be named. Robert told the
Speaker 1: co worker that the hermit lived at a campsite in
Speaker 1: a shack like shed, which differs from Dale's description of
Speaker 1: a trailer. He said that while writing his ATV, he
Speaker 1: came across the hermit walking in the woods, which differs
Speaker 1: from Dale's account that both men were writing ATVs. The
Speaker 1: hermit gave Robert directions to his home. The next day,
Speaker 1: Robert visited him for five to six hours. The hermit
Speaker 1: had a dog, but was lonely. Robert said he also
Speaker 1: had a good supply of fuel and food, including wild turkeys,
Speaker 1: which he penned up in his yard. The hermit came
Speaker 1: into town only once a year for supplies, Robert told
Speaker 1: his coworker, which differs from Dale's account that he came
Speaker 1: into town once a month. He was a business person
Speaker 1: or maybe a lawyer. He got tired of his job
Speaker 1: and society and one day left it all behind. He
Speaker 1: cut off communication with the outside world. Robert said the
Speaker 1: hermit was in his forties, which differs from Dale's account
Speaker 1: that the hermit was in his seventies. Robert showed his
Speaker 1: coworker photos from the trip. Police never located them. They
Speaker 1: presumably burned in the Fisher House fire. Ken Hodgson told
Speaker 1: police that Robert and Dale both referred to the hermit
Speaker 1: as quote the guy with the cornpipe. Police asked Ken,
Speaker 1: Dale and the co worker if Robert expressed any hermit
Speaker 1: fantasies of his own. No, they said, in part because
Speaker 1: of his back pain. He might idealize that rugged kind
Speaker 1: of life, as millions do, but he wasn't cut out
Speaker 1: to live it. The details here come from interviews police
Speaker 1: conducted a week after the murders. They spoke to the
Speaker 1: coworker on April seventeenth, two thousand and one, and to
Speaker 1: Ken and Dale Hodgson the next day, April eighteenth. So
Speaker 1: I'm comparing contemporaneous accounts of the hermit, not fresh memories
Speaker 1: from two thousand and one to stale ones today, which
Speaker 1: otherwise could explain some of the minor discrepancies. The hermit
Speaker 1: is important for two key reasons. First, he inspired Robert,
Speaker 1: if not to live in the woods, then at least
Speaker 1: to dramatically alter his life. Their encounter was serendipitous. It
Speaker 1: came right before Robert fell sick with an apparent STI,
Speaker 1: days before his life started to pancake and rapidly collapse.
Speaker 1: Incredible timing. Second, and this is critical, Dale Hodgson told
Speaker 1: police that he thought Robert might be with the hermit,
Speaker 1: that he could have fled there after the murders, which
Speaker 1: makes sense. Robert meets a hermit in the woods four
Speaker 1: months before he kills his family. The hermit is cut
Speaker 1: off from society, he's not following the news. He has
Speaker 1: a stockpile of food and fuel. It's an ideal off
Speaker 1: the grid refuge. The hermit could have helped Robert without
Speaker 1: knowing what he did. Robert could have lied, for example,
Speaker 1: saying his wife kicked him out and he needed a
Speaker 1: place to stay. The hermit was lonely, he likely would
Speaker 1: have obliged. He would have welcomed company from a kindred spirit.
Speaker 1: Police attempted to locate him in two thousand and one.
Speaker 1: They apparently failed. Dale Hodgson and his son left the
Speaker 1: hunting trip early on Sunday, December tenth, two thousand. Robert
Speaker 1: stayed behind. Another friend, Steve Peach, arrived the night of
Speaker 1: time whose day December twelfth, meaning Robert had two and
Speaker 1: a half days at Happy Jack alone, two and a
Speaker 1: half days he could have spent with the hermit who
Speaker 1: when Steve arrived, Robert failed to mention, which seems strange right,
Speaker 1: almost like he decided to minimize who knew about him. Now,
Speaker 1: let me circle back to a lead I discussed in
Speaker 1: episode five. After the murders, a tow truck driver claimed
Speaker 1: he pulled Robert out of a ditch near Blue Ridge Reservoir.
Speaker 1: While I'm skeptical of this claim, I do want to
Speaker 1: point out that the hermit lived only five miles from
Speaker 1: the reservoir. In twenty twenty three, I interview Robert's coworker,
Speaker 1: the one he told about the hermit.
Speaker 2: Yes, the hermit story is true.
Speaker 1: The hermit and his lifestyle fascinated Robert.
Speaker 6: And there were only like two or three of us
Speaker 6: who knew of this. A very small piece, very limited
Speaker 6: number of people knew.
Speaker 1: That Robert admired the hermit's home for its minimalist efficiency and.
Speaker 6: Because it was kind of out in the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 6: so it wasn't like you went to loot some scraps
Speaker 6: at home deep over or you found some on the
Speaker 6: side of the road.
Speaker 2: So it was just kind of stuff that he yelp
Speaker 2: from your forest and stuff like that. And I know
Speaker 2: he mentioned.
Speaker 6: It was almost like you didn't see it, so they
Speaker 6: actually saw the person before he said, we actually saw
Speaker 6: where he was living.
Speaker 1: Summer twenty twenty three, our producer Chris and I decide
Speaker 1: to search for the hermit. We leave Phoenix Drive to
Speaker 1: Happy Jack.
Speaker 7: It's thro on this like.
Speaker 1: Windy rocky forest for a very rocky forest road, like
Speaker 1: through the forests. We've got a polar pop from Circle
Speaker 1: K and you can hear it jiggling around. I don't
Speaker 1: know how good the mic is. I hope it picks
Speaker 1: up the jiggling ice. Nobody else is on this road.
Speaker 1: It's very bumpy. There's a looks like it's spelled to rain.
Speaker 1: It's pretty cloudy, and it's seventy three degrees. It's actually
Speaker 1: really nice. We criss cross side roads, including one with
Speaker 1: a sizeable no trespassing sign. Should just go down it.
Speaker 1: Let's go down. Let's go down a little bit and
Speaker 1: then turn around.
Speaker 7: Go what are they going to do?
Speaker 2: Arrest us? Come on?
Speaker 1: Some people just come out yelling at us as a shotgun
Speaker 1: or something. That's better than being arrested. We're just lost,
Speaker 1: just some lost to us. Looking for hermit. We find
Speaker 1: some shacks that could belong to the hermit. There's no
Speaker 1: way to know for sure, but one thing we can
Speaker 1: say by now, he's likely dead and regardless, this area
Speaker 1: has changed a lot since two thousand and one. It's
Speaker 1: much more developed. So moving on to Brad. Brad started
Speaker 1: a new job at the Mayo Clinic Hospital in Phoenix
Speaker 1: in December two thousand. He met Robert at orientation on Thursday,
Speaker 1: December seventh. The same day Robert left after work on
Speaker 1: the elk hunting trip Robert and Brad quickly bonded over
Speaker 1: their love of guns and nature, as well as their
Speaker 1: past military experience. In February two thousand and one, two
Speaker 1: months before the murders, Brad gave Robert a bunch of
Speaker 1: MREs Field rations three to five five cases. Each was
Speaker 1: ten to twelve meals, enough to last at least two
Speaker 1: to three weeks. Police never found them. They could have burned,
Speaker 1: or Robert could have hidden them somewhere. Brad was the
Speaker 1: last coworker to see Robert. They exited the hospital together
Speaker 1: around four pm on April ninth, shortly before the murders. Initially,
Speaker 1: police were suspicious of Brad, but later they determined it
Speaker 1: unlikely that he helped Robert in any way other than
Speaker 1: innocently gifting him some MREs. I agree with that assessment.
Speaker 2: German shepherd man, this.
Speaker 1: One is confounding. I don't know what to make of it.
Speaker 1: The night of April ninth, two thousand and one, a
Speaker 1: teacher named Marge Lopez witnessed something odd at Supi Middle
Speaker 1: School outside the National Junior Honor Society event. She saw
Speaker 1: a man tying up a blonde colored German shepherd. She
Speaker 1: didn't pay him much attention. When he walked in, he
Speaker 1: sat down next to her. It was Robert Fisher. Lopez
Speaker 1: asked about the shepherd, speaking in a harsh, monotone voice.
Speaker 1: Robert quote indicated very sternly that it was not him
Speaker 1: that was outside with the dog. According to a police report,
Speaker 1: Lopez said the man with the shepherd were the same
Speaker 1: black ball cap as Fisher. She was confident it was Fisher.
Speaker 1: There are only two options here. Either Lopez was mistaken
Speaker 1: or it was Fisher, in which case, what was he
Speaker 1: doing with the blonde German shepherd? And whose shepherd was it?
Speaker 1: If you're thinking maybe she saw Robert tying up his
Speaker 1: dog Blue, I doubt it. Blue was a different breed,
Speaker 1: an Australian cattle dog, not a German shepherd. He was black,
Speaker 1: white and gray, not blonde. And anyway, why would Robert
Speaker 1: deny that he was the guy outside.
Speaker 2: The Paulden Survivalists.
Speaker 1: We reported this one in episode nine. On April first,
Speaker 1: two thousand and one, while returning to Scottsdale from a
Speaker 1: wedding in Sedona, Robert unexpectedly stopped at a survivalist compound
Speaker 1: in Paulden. He made Mary Wade in the car She
Speaker 1: had no idea what he was doing. He disappeared for
Speaker 1: an hour, then came back. This is obviously mysterious. Who
Speaker 1: were these people? Why did Robert meet with them nine
Speaker 1: days before the murders? Did they in any way help him?
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I found something of note. According
Speaker 1: to Phoenix Magazine, that area was at the time a
Speaker 1: hot spot for outlaw biker gangs, including the Skull Valley
Speaker 1: chapter of the Hell's Angels, based in Chino Valley, only
Speaker 1: ten minutes south.
Speaker 2: Of Paulden Brian Ballard.
Speaker 1: On June twenty seventh, two thousand and one, four Scott
Speaker 1: Steel detectives followed up on a lead from a local
Speaker 1: inmate that Robert Fischer stayed with a man named Brian
Speaker 1: Ballard after the murders. A woman nicknamed Ninja, whose real
Speaker 1: name is redacted in a police report, allegedly helped. From
Speaker 1: the report quote, it was reported that had brought Fisher
Speaker 1: to after the murders, Detectives interviewed at least eight people,
Speaker 1: including Stacy Metcalf, an inmate in Phoenix, Donovan Solstak, s
Speaker 1: l z Stak, also an inmate in Phoenix, Sally Metcalf,
Speaker 1: Jessica Baker and two neighbors who lived across the street
Speaker 1: from possibly a safe house where Robert Fisher stayed after
Speaker 1: the murders. The neighbors didn't have any information on Fisher,
Speaker 1: but there was a lot of traffic into and out
Speaker 1: of the house. They said they suspected it was used
Speaker 1: to deal drugs. That's all I got from a records request.
Speaker 1: I was unable to reach anyone named in the report. However,
Speaker 1: I did identify Brian Ballard as Brian Douglas Ballard nickname Purebread,
Speaker 1: ilias Mark Laylor, La Lar occupation drywall contractor. Date of
Speaker 1: birth July twenty seventh, nineteen sixty one, so he was
Speaker 1: the same age as Robert Fisher. Height six ' one
Speaker 1: wait one hundred and seventy five pounds, hair, blonde, eyes hazel,
Speaker 1: so in some ways he physically resembled Fisher too. He
Speaker 1: has an extensive criminal record, including charges for drug possession, larceny, forgery, trafficking,
Speaker 1: stolen property, assault, weapons related defenses, disorderly conduct, shoplifting, and
Speaker 1: driving while impaired. On July twenty first, two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: three months after the Fisher murders, a Phoenix police officer
Speaker 1: pulled him over and issued him three citations. Five days later,
Speaker 1: Phoenix police raided the home he shared with his girlfriend,
Speaker 1: Colinda Lee Davis eighty twenty four North twenty ninth Avenue, which,
Speaker 1: if you're curious, is twenty miles from the Fisher House.
Speaker 1: They found meth syringes, drug pipes, counterfeit bills, and pieces
Speaker 1: of counterfeit checks. Ballard said he was working as an
Speaker 1: informant for the Glendale Police Department. He claimed he would
Speaker 1: obtain counterfeit bills from a guy named Tuma, then turn
Speaker 1: them over to the cops at his house. During the raid,
Speaker 1: or at least four other people Skyler Lee Writtenauer, Sandra
Speaker 1: Luis Radell, Michael Thomas Beck, and Augustine Vdalas Velasquez or Vasquez.
Speaker 1: The spelling is inconsistent in a police report. The report
Speaker 1: also names Michael William Lampy Lampe, Carl a Pert, and
Speaker 1: Lester Whitezel, though it's unclear how they're tied to the case.
Speaker 1: On August fifth, two thousand and one, ten days after
Speaker 1: the raid, Ballard was pulled over again while out on
Speaker 1: bail by the same cop who stopped him on July
Speaker 1: twenty first, in his front pocket, the cop found seven
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty milligrams of meth. Ballard claimed the pants
Speaker 1: were not actually his, but he quickly gave up that ruse. Yes,
Speaker 1: he said, they're my pants. Yes, it's my meth. The
Speaker 1: officer also found a jiggle key used to pick locks
Speaker 1: on his floorboard, as well as keys to other vehicles,
Speaker 1: all of which Ballard claimed were his. It's unclear if
Speaker 1: Phoenix police were aware that Ballard was a person of
Speaker 1: interest in the Fisher case. They raided his house a
Speaker 1: month after. Scottsdale Police investigated whether or not he sheltered
Speaker 1: Robert after the murders. Robert wasn't known to use illegal drugs,
Speaker 1: but he was seemingly addicted to opioids. He had a prescription,
Speaker 1: but it's possible he also obtained them illegally, which could
Speaker 1: explain a connection to someone living in a house used
Speaker 1: to sell drugs. When arrested in two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: Ballard was described as an unemployed addict. If anyone from
Speaker 1: the criminal underworld helped Robert after the murders, it likely
Speaker 1: would have been in exchange for money. They may not
Speaker 1: have even been aware of what he did. If I
Speaker 1: were law enforcement Here's what I do. Now, Double check
Speaker 1: this lead. Interview Ballard and everyone else tied to his case.
Speaker 1: Compare his fingerprints which are on file to Prince recovered
Speaker 1: from Mary's forerunner. If the keys found in his vehicle
Speaker 1: in two thousand and one are in storage, see if
Speaker 1: any fit the fore runner. Examine other evidence recovered from
Speaker 1: his house. Check his medical records, see if he was
Speaker 1: ever treated at one of Robert's hospitals. Finally, if Ballard
Speaker 1: had ties to someone who produced counterfeit ca and checks,
Speaker 1: he could have easily had ties to someone who produced
Speaker 1: falsified identity documents which Robert could have used to escape.
Speaker 1: So I'd review document forgery cases in the Phoenix metro
Speaker 1: from say, nineteen ninety eight to two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: Track down the forgers and interview them. Also, let me
Speaker 1: say this, if you were involved in a legal activity
Speaker 1: in two thousand and one and helped Robert Fisher escape
Speaker 1: or know who did, you could still be eligible for
Speaker 1: reward money. The cops don't care about you. They don't
Speaker 1: care about drugs or fake bills from twenty three years ago.
Speaker 1: They want to catch a guy who killed his wife
Speaker 1: and children. Please come forward or at least submit information
Speaker 1: anonymously to law enforcement or US. We'll tell you how
Speaker 1: to reach us at the end of.
Speaker 2: This episode the Unit ten Rancher.
Speaker 1: Some people theorize that after the murders, Robert fled to
Speaker 1: a remote ranch somewhere in Arizona, disconnected from society. Maybe
Speaker 1: he's living there today. They say, I find it hard
Speaker 1: to believe that he's still on some isolated property in
Speaker 1: state twenty three years later, but it's certainly possible that
Speaker 1: he used one as a layover while escaping. That exact
Speaker 1: scenario played out in a high profile way in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven, when the FBI found Chevy Keyhoe, a white supremacist,
Speaker 1: hiding under a fake name, on a Utah ranch one
Speaker 1: hundred miles northwest of the Grand Canyon. Keyho helped kill
Speaker 1: a family in Arkansas, including an eight year old girl,
Speaker 1: and has suspected ties to the Oklahoma City bombing. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: one of Robert's friends told police that before he killed
Speaker 1: his family, Robert befriended quote a rancher up in Unit ten.
Speaker 1: Unit ten is a hunting area sandwiched between Williams, Arizona,
Speaker 1: and the Grand Canyon. Another friend said that Robert quote
Speaker 1: had a ranch near the Grand Canyon, presumably not that
Speaker 1: he owned one, but that he frequented one in the area.
Speaker 1: The unit ten rancher has never been identified. There's one
Speaker 1: more Rance related lead. I purposely left it out of
Speaker 1: episode five. Tell me about the Cherry Creek story lead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one is bizarre.
Speaker 1: True Crime Arizona host Brianna Whitney.
Speaker 3: It was in the late two thousands and this woman
Speaker 3: named Jesse Clanbal and her friend were going to the
Speaker 3: Cherry Creek Store to give people an idea of what
Speaker 3: that looks like. It's a really small convenience store that
Speaker 3: has some groceries, but it's more like a like a gas.
Speaker 2: Station convenience store.
Speaker 7: And it's in Young and.
Speaker 3: It's in Young, right, so there's not much off of
Speaker 3: the road in Young, Like this is the main store
Speaker 3: that's there, which is.
Speaker 1: Just south of where the Forerunner was fould right.
Speaker 3: So tinytown in the woods. If you're listening and trying
Speaker 3: to visualize this tinytown in the woods, one road, not
Speaker 3: much around it. The Cherry Creek Store is probably the
Speaker 3: main grocery store, but when you think of it, it's
Speaker 3: like a gas station convenience store to set the scene,
Speaker 3: and Jesse Clanbial was living in young she had young
Speaker 3: kids at the time. She and her friend went to
Speaker 3: the Cherry Creek store to get whatever they needed to
Speaker 3: get and at the front was a picture of Robert Fisher.
Speaker 3: You know most wanted. Here's his picture that we've all
Speaker 3: seen a million times. While they were in there, this
Speaker 3: old man, I think with an oxygen tank came in
Speaker 3: with like aanch hand, a younger ranch hand, and she
Speaker 3: said that. When they got to the front counter, the
Speaker 3: old man said, why do you have a picture of
Speaker 3: my friend?
Speaker 2: What is that?
Speaker 3: And you know it's Robert Fisher. He's wanted for murdering
Speaker 3: his family. As this old man got real irate and upset, like, no,
Speaker 3: this man lives on my ranch with me. He would
Speaker 3: never do such a thing. He's a great person. This
Speaker 3: cannot be him. Why are you paid to him in
Speaker 3: this picture? No way, you have the wrong person, and
Speaker 3: got really upset at the fact that he claimed whoever
Speaker 3: was on his ranch was in this picture. And I
Speaker 3: guess eventually he asked the ranch hand, you know, let's go,
Speaker 3: let's go, let's get out of here. And so Jesse
Speaker 3: watched this go down and thought, well, that was a
Speaker 3: weird interaction, and ended up calling the FBI with the tip.
Speaker 3: The problem is that nobody could track down who the
Speaker 3: old man was or what ranch he lived on in
Speaker 3: the area. And you might think, oh, maybe there's a
Speaker 3: couple of ranches. No, there's a lot of ranches in
Speaker 3: northern Arizona, so to know exactly which one we're talking
Speaker 3: about would be nearly impossible.
Speaker 1: And part it's interesting because of what Robert Fisher did
Speaker 1: for a living, that he was cardiovascular and respiratory tech
Speaker 1: at the Mayo Clinic, And so I think you highlighted
Speaker 1: the importance of this man rolling in with an oxygen
Speaker 1: tank because it's a little anecdotal piece of information, but
Speaker 1: it ties into what Fisher did professionally.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, I think that part stands out. And when
Speaker 3: I talked to Robert Fisher's sister on the phone, she
Speaker 3: also made mention of that she felt that this was
Speaker 3: the most credible tip because she said she could see
Speaker 3: Robert helping somebody. He knew how to work an oxygen
Speaker 3: type tank. He was a respiratory therapist at the Mayo Clinic,
Speaker 3: very well renowned. So yeah, I mean, could he have
Speaker 3: been living there.
Speaker 1: Sure, or maybe the man had dementia and was confused.
Speaker 3: We just don't know, and that's what's so frustrating.
Speaker 1: If you like this show, please download our first two seasons,
Speaker 1: Missing in Alaska and Missing on nine to eleven. For updates,
Speaker 1: visit neon thirty three dot com or follow me on
Speaker 1: Twitter at John Waalzac joenl Czak.
Speaker 7: Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: There are three people left who are critical to this case.
Speaker 1: I'm going to discuss two of them now and save
Speaker 1: one for next week. First, the mistress, who could be
Speaker 1: one of at least four different people. In episode six,
Speaker 1: Robert's friend and co worker, Ashley's Zarsty said there were
Speaker 1: persistent rumors that Robert had an affair in the nineties
Speaker 1: with a nurse. For years, the nurse's husband left Robert
Speaker 1: threatening voicemails. It was enough to force him to move
Speaker 1: to a different hospital. Then, in nineteen ninety nine, Robert
Speaker 1: cheated on Mary with a masseuse, a one time fling
Speaker 1: at a motel. Finally, in the lead up to the murders,
Speaker 1: there was rampant speculation that he was having another affair.
Speaker 1: Confirmation seemingly came when he got sick with at least
Speaker 1: one or more a s TIS and transmitted syphilis to Mary.
Speaker 1: So was robertson fidelity in two thousand and or two
Speaker 1: thousand and one, a quick flame, an ongoing affair, or both.
Speaker 1: Would any of these women or men help him before, during,
Speaker 1: or after the murders? Did police investigate the nurse with
Speaker 1: whom he allegedly had an affair in the nineties, and
Speaker 1: most importantly, if he was having an affair in two
Speaker 1: thousand and one, who was the other person? I found
Speaker 1: four candidates. First, an unknown woman who lived in Prescott Valley, Arizona,
Speaker 1: not far from Robert's mom. Her name is redacted in
Speaker 1: police reports. Second, a woman I'll call Rita. I know
Speaker 1: her name, but for privacy's sake, I'm choosing not to
Speaker 1: name her. It's not something I can do ethically at
Speaker 1: this point. Rita's name surfaced in two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: right after the murders. Police obtained a credit report on her,
Speaker 1: but they were instructed to stop there because they didn't
Speaker 1: have any concrete evidence that she was involved with Fisher
Speaker 1: in quote an extraordinary capacity. Third, a woman all called
Speaker 1: Tina Tino worked with Robert at the Mayo Clinic Hospital.
Speaker 1: I emailed her last year. She responded, asking how I
Speaker 1: found her, then saying quote, I'm going to pass on
Speaker 1: any further discussions on this fourth a woman all call Sandra.
Speaker 1: She also worked with Fisher at Mayo. I also emailed her.
Speaker 1: She said quote, I don't have any more information to
Speaker 1: share with you that wasn't given at the time of
Speaker 1: the horrific thing that he did. Best of luck and
Speaker 1: hopefully someday he'll be found one way or the other.
Speaker 1: For now, that's all I have. Any further action needs
Speaker 1: to be taken by law enforcement.
Speaker 7: Moving on to Greg, the.
Speaker 1: Camper who found Mary's SUV in the woods north of
Speaker 1: Young on April nineteenth, two thousand and one. That day,
Speaker 1: he was driving home from Arizona to Oregon. When the
Speaker 1: sun started to set and the weather deteriorated, he stopped
Speaker 1: for the night set up a campsite. As twilight sank
Speaker 1: into the forest, he started walking down a rugged dirt road.
Speaker 1: He spotted a glint of silver an squv. He knew
Speaker 1: it could be Fisher, but come on, really, he figured
Speaker 1: it so unlikely. He returned to his campsite, had dinner,
Speaker 1: and fell asleep in his wood paneled white van. The
Speaker 1: next morning, he circled behind the suv on a hill.
Speaker 1: He peered through binoculars. It was a Forerunner. He saw
Speaker 1: movement blue, Robert's dog. Then he drove forty minutes north
Speaker 1: to a gas station, where he used a payphone to
Speaker 1: call two friends in Mesa, who in turn called the
Speaker 1: Scottsdale Police Department, sparking a massive manhunt in rugged terrain. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Greg disappeared. He left the state quickly. Police were unable
Speaker 1: to reach him for a month. Finally they tracked him
Speaker 1: down and spoke to him by phone at his brother's
Speaker 1: home in Oregon. Investigators have always suspected that he possibly
Speaker 1: helped Robert escape, that he drove him to freedom. Police
Speaker 1: reports describe him as a transient camper who roamed the
Speaker 1: nation and made money working odd jobs pouring concrete slab,
Speaker 1: for example. He first heard about the Fisher case on
Speaker 1: the radio on April nineteenth. With darkness and snow descending,
Speaker 1: he stumbled upon the Forerunner while gathering firewood.
Speaker 7: By chance.
Speaker 1: He said, it was parked exactly where he camped seven
Speaker 1: months earlier. He noticed the log across the road and thought,
Speaker 1: quote that'd be kind of cute if he Fisher went
Speaker 1: down this road and pushed that log across it, so
Speaker 1: anybody driving down there would just turn around and leave.
Speaker 1: Then he saw on suv poking out of the bushes.
Speaker 7: Quote.
Speaker 1: Now, I've been doing this camping stuff for about ten years.
Speaker 1: I know the different styles of camping. There's loitering, there's camping,
Speaker 1: there's homesteading, there's free loading, and then there's hiding. This
Speaker 1: guy was part hiding. You wouldn't camp like that. Greg
Speaker 1: turned around and walked back to his campsite. I kept
Speaker 1: the fire burning real good, he said, But I didn't
Speaker 1: stand near the fire. I stood out in the dark
Speaker 1: because it was a real dark night cold. He noticed
Speaker 1: that whoever the suv belonged to didn't light their own fire,
Speaker 1: which quote raised an eyebrow. At that point, he gave
Speaker 1: it fifty to fifty odds that it was actually Fisher.
Speaker 1: The next morning, he was approached by Robert's dog, Blue,
Speaker 1: who he described as quote a dingo looking thing. The
Speaker 1: dog came about halfway to me, he said. He was
Speaker 1: acting real strange, whining and trying to wag his tail
Speaker 1: at the same time. If he even had a tail,
Speaker 1: I can't remember. He was wagging his butt anyway, and
Speaker 1: he would look at me and then look back at
Speaker 1: the ditch behind the car. There's a little dry wash
Speaker 1: back there, and I figured, well, he Robert killed himself.
Speaker 1: He's laying down in that ditch, and I really didn't
Speaker 1: want to go look at it because it might be
Speaker 1: an ambush or something. I went back and put out
Speaker 1: my fire and threw dirt on it and drove straight
Speaker 1: up to Heber. I was kind of at a loss
Speaker 1: of what to do. I don't use telephones. I don't
Speaker 1: even like them, especially payphones. They just take my money
Speaker 1: and I don't get nothing out of it.
Speaker 7: Yet.
Speaker 1: Despite his disdain for coin guzzling phones, Greg called his
Speaker 1: friends the Jackas, then sped away way as investigators and
Speaker 1: the media converged on the Forerunner. Greg spent the night
Speaker 1: twenty one miles north above Chevlon Canyon Lake. The next
Speaker 1: day he hit Winslow Flagstaff Page. He crossed into southern Utah,
Speaker 1: drove through the Escalante Staircase area, emerged near Bryce Canyon,
Speaker 1: and continued on to Oregon. Investigators asked how he felt
Speaker 1: about Robert Fisher. I'd like to see him shot dead.
Speaker 1: He said, wherever you find him, because it's going to
Speaker 1: take what seventeen years before you could ever kill him.
Speaker 1: You know, it costs so much money and all that crap.
Speaker 1: Shoot him right there and just say, well, we don't
Speaker 1: know what happened. That's my opinion. It save you a
Speaker 1: couple hundred grand. Investigators chuckled, but they were still suspicious.
Speaker 1: Why didn't Greg stick around? Why did he leave so quickly?
Speaker 1: The original detective John Kirkham died in two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: The investigators who took over the case, including Hugh Lockerby,
Speaker 1: declined a comment. What did you make of the man
Speaker 1: who located the forerunner? I mean he just kind of
Speaker 1: hit the road and was hard to track down.
Speaker 2: Pass okay.
Speaker 1: For an entire year, I try to find Greg. He
Speaker 1: doesn't have much of a paper trail, a fue old
Speaker 1: addresses here and there. I write letters, no response, send emails,
Speaker 1: they bounce back, call possible numbers, not him. By late
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, there's nothing left to do but try
Speaker 1: to track him down in person. In December, our producer
Speaker 1: Chris and I hop on a plane. We fly to Seattle,
Speaker 1: drive down to Oregon, start knocking on doors. Over the years,
Speaker 1: I've done this repeatedly. It's always a waste of time,
Speaker 1: an act of desperation.
Speaker 7: It never works.
Speaker 1: Until it Greg does Henderson next time I'm missing in Arizona.
Speaker 2: It's a fore runner. Holy shit, there's the job that damn.
Speaker 1: You can reach us by phone at one eight three
Speaker 1: to three new tips that's one eight three, three six
Speaker 1: three nine eight four seven seven, by email at tips
Speaker 1: at iheartman Media dot com, tip s at iHeartMedia dot com,
Speaker 1: online at Neon thirty three dot com, or on Twitter
Speaker 1: at John Wallzac, j O n w A. L. Czak.
Speaker 1: This episode produced by Taylor Chacoine. Paul Decan is our
Speaker 1: executive producer. Chris Brown is our supervising producer. Panna Rose
Speaker 1: Snyder is our producer. Paul Gemberline is our researcher, Ben
Speaker 1: Bolin is a consulting producer, and I'm your host and
Speaker 1: executive producer. John Wallzac recreation voiced by Ben Hackett, header's
Speaker 1: voiced by Taylor Shackoyne. Cover art by Pam Peacock Neon
Speaker 1: thirty three. Logo designed by Derek Rudy. Our intro song
Speaker 1: is Utopia by Ruby Cube. Please download the first two
Speaker 1: seasons of our show Missing in Alaska and Missing on
Speaker 1: nine to eleven, and if you're so inclined, give us
Speaker 1: a five star rating. Missing in Arizona is a co
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three.