1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: the podcast that does what it says in the title, 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: I mean host Margaret Kiljoy, the Arbiter of Cool People, 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: the Arbiter of cool Stuff. Also, I discovered today I'm 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: the one who gets to determine who is sick and 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 1: who is healthy with me today, as my guest is 7 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: a cool person, a bona fide cool person. Since I'm 8 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: the arbiter of cool people, this is a good bit. 9 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: I'm very excited about this. Caitlin durante Um, best known 10 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: perhaps for hosting the show The Beachtel Cast. Caitlin, how 11 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: are you? I'm pretty good? Thank you? How are you? 12 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: I'm okay. I've been driving all day and now I'm 13 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: podcasting all day. I somehow I have two days today. 14 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, I guess I already asked how are you? 15 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: I'll answer again. All allow right, all right, all right. 16 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: Let's you said that you get to decide who is 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: sick and who is not. And that's a reference to 18 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: when we were talking off Mike about how I've been 19 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: a little sick lately and it's my responsibility to be 20 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: so like just funny and good and charming on your 21 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: episode today or I will stay sick. That will be punishment. Yeah, 22 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: and so it's up to the audience to descernment. How funny, Caitlin, 23 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: this is the worst and luckily humor is completely objective. 24 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: That's true, so classically yeah, famously yeah, yeah, Okay, well, 25 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. Well, at the end, we'll let 26 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: it'll be Sophie and I will decide how about that 27 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: instead of as the audience, Yes, our producer, uh and 28 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: fellow arboriter of illness and well healthy Sophie. Sophie, how 29 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: are you doing? I mean, I'm doing well, and I 30 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: feel like I feel like, uh, you know, Caitlin, who 31 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: does have a master's integrating, we'll we'll do really well 32 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: at um. I mean, I know you don't like to 33 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: mention it, but we'll do really well. I mean, I 34 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: hate it, will do really well and making us go ah, 35 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: and therefore will not have to be unwell, Okay, Like 36 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: I feel I feel confident that because Kaylin has a 37 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: master's screwding, that this is going to go really well 38 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: for all of us. I mean, I've met a lot 39 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: of people with masters in screenwriting and otherwise who are 40 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: not good at making people laugh, So it's not. But 41 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: what I mean is, yes, s freaking funny. That's good. Good, 42 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: I'm glad. So to considue our credits, our sound engineers Ian, 43 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: and our theme music was written by the esteemable musician 44 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: known only under the mysterious name on Woman, also under 45 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: other names to friends. But so, Caitlin, you have a 46 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: master's degree in screenwriting, is what I hear? That makes 47 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: you kind of an expert on film stuff. And last 48 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: time we had you on we talked about film stuff 49 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: Max Shrek who Since that recording, we did a bectel 50 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: past episode on Batman Returns, which famously has a character 51 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: played by Christopher Walkin named Max Shrek. The character was 52 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: named after the actor whoa he discussed at length. I 53 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: watched a nose ferato Since the last time I saw you, 54 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 1: I watched and you did not watch Twilight, so you 55 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: will not get Caitlin eyes jokes that still continues to 56 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: be true now. Instead I had to watch like something 57 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: like Okay, who's the the director who likes getting shot 58 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: on camera and jumping into thanks full of cactuses and 59 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: making documentaries about how terrible the world is? Dead Pan Germany? Um, 60 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, his name he did Grizzly Man and stuff. Yeah, 61 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: I think so, oh what is his name? I normally 62 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: this is like a name I normally know in my 63 00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: daily life. Same. Uh it's um Oh. I am googling 64 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: it because I have to know. I watched The Verner 65 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: her Zog Knows ferrall too since last I really liked it. 66 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: But then I watched on The Devil's based on Aldie 67 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: Huxley book, and like, this makes me sound like I'm 68 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: very much like an old film buff, which is I'll 69 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: pretend like it's true in order to get the cred 70 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: and viewed as pretentious that that will allow me to 71 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: have access to but every every all the other movies 72 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: I watched this, Like last week, I kind of wiped 73 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: away by The Devil's Um, it was really good m 74 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: But this time we're not talking about film stuff. I 75 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: just like having you on. Thank you so much. Today 76 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about labor union Hobos. We traveled 77 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: around the US on freight trains and later in r 78 00:04:53,240 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: vs who were printers and printed newspapers. No kidding, I 79 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: also have a master's degree in that, so I don't 80 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: know this episode. Yeah, exactly master's degree in freight train writing. Yeah, excellent. 81 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: So these tramp printers laid out a ton of the 82 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: newspapers that did a ton of the political ship that 83 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: made a ton of things happen in this country, lots 84 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: of good things and bad things. M They were the hard, drinking, 85 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: hard fighting, hard cussin book reading, lonely road rail writing, 86 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: short living, morally complicated and not boring tramp printers. All right, 87 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: but first, have you ever heard of a printing press? 88 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: I have heard of a printing press. Yes, excellent. Um, 89 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta talk. In order to talk about 90 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: these people. I thought I'd be able to like cut 91 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: right in, to be like and then they had a union, 92 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: and then they did this off and then like slowly 93 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: I realized that the like, the physical form of printing 94 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,679 Speaker 1: really ties into a lot of stuff about their culture. 95 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: So we got a flashback to like, that's my guests 96 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: for the date that a printing press was invented. Well, 97 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: there might have been a printing press invented, but it 98 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: is not when the printing presses we're talking about were invented? 99 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: Is the main European one. I think it's in my script, 100 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: and so therefore I totally know it and I don't 101 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: ever forget things, and like a whatever animal it is 102 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: that doesn't forget things. Um, that's also a good bit. 103 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: It's a joke. Yeah, thank you, all right. So on 104 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: some level, printing seems like a chore that is just 105 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: part of what we read, right, It's part of the 106 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: process of making things. But printing is really the core 107 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: of media and mass communication, and like the origin of 108 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: mass communication, without hands set type, there wouldn't be mass literacy, 109 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: at least in the Western world. There was a good 110 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: amount of literacy in the Eastern world going back a 111 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: thousand years before Europe figured out how to read without 112 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: using movable type, even though they had movable type. Whatever 113 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: I'm getting ahead, mhm. Europe was kind of a backwater 114 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: of the world until people they're figured out that they 115 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: could colonize everyone and be monsters. And movable type, like 116 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: a lot of things, was first invented in what is 117 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: now China, or I guess was China at the time too. 118 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: In the eleventh century, guy named b Shang mostly used porcelain, 119 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: but he also used wood, and he made movable type 120 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: with all of the different characters and stuff and it 121 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: didn't really catch on at the time he invented it, 122 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: and it was used for some stuff, but it wasn't 123 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: like it didn't replace woodblock cutting m pretty quickly. Uh, 124 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: some folks in China and some folks in Korea figured 125 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: out metal movable type started using it. Again, didn't really 126 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: take off, basically, would block printing with whole pages carved 127 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: at a time stayed the normal way of printing stuff. 128 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: And there's lots of like reasons why this is. But 129 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: like a lot of history that has to do with 130 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: Western historians writing about Asian history, everyone's like, I'm not 131 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: really sure if they're being objective or I'm not really 132 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,119 Speaker 1: sure he's being objective in these histories. Sure, it seems 133 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: like it didn't catch on basically because it wasn't necessary 134 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: based on the way that typography worked and like the 135 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 1: way that the written language has worked in different places. 136 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: So for like a thousand years, the Eastern world was 137 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: using woodblock printed books and they were doing quite well, 138 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: while Europe was still scribbling away by candle light with 139 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: quill and ink. And so once again that's how I 140 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: send my tweets out. It's quill and ink. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 141 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: no that. Um, yeah, you know, I feel like at 142 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: this point, tweets are probably about as long as I 143 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: used to handwrite all my like fiction, no kidding, yeah, 144 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: I I couldn't imagine doing that anymore. I don't know, 145 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: because of a man named Johannes Guttenberg. I don't know 146 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: if I said his first name, right. He was probably 147 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: born around the year fourteen hundred. And I'm really annoyed 148 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, I'm gonna do this deep 149 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: Divan Gutenberg for this part of this episode. He's really boring. Like, yeah, 150 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, maybe some would have 151 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: proved me wrong, but everything I've read about him not 152 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: like the most interesting guy, one of the most influential 153 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: figures in history, like kind of up there with like 154 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: Jesus and Mohammed in terms of like pure cultural impact, 155 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: you know. But um, by the mid fourteen hundreds, he 156 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: was like, hey, guys, I've got an idea, and he 157 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: changed basically everything about the world ever since. Not necessarily 158 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: for the better, because Europe no longer being a backwater 159 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: has actually worked out really badly for everyone, right, but 160 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: he certainly changed the world. Okay, As a tangent, I 161 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: used to stay in the squat in Amsterdam years ago, 162 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: and there was this, um, this little piece of graffiti 163 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: that said changed the world, make it worse, um, and 164 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: then someone changed it to change the world, make it 165 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: hoarsey instead of worse. But okay, nice anyway, I already know. 166 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 1: And then I think about that one. I'm feeling really 167 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: cynicals changed the world make it worse, which is what 168 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: Guttenberg managed to do. Maybe I don't know. Whatever, I'm 169 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: not trying to put a moral judgment on this particular character. 170 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: He invented movable type again sort of in four it's 171 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: like one or whatever date I said, right, yes, sorry, yeah, okay, 172 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: well for now we'll go on the wrong one, the 173 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: one that I got off offers. Yeah, Um, I didn't 174 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: ask you. I should have asked you. So historians like 175 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: to argue about whether or not movable type found its 176 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: way over from China or whether it was like invented 177 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: whole cloth separately. Um. There's a couple other people who 178 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: were like, no, I swear I invented at the same 179 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: time over in the Netherlands. It just didn't like take off, right, 180 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: And so a lot of people were like thinking about 181 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: these concepts at the same time. And Gutenberg of force 182 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: also didn't like solely invented. He was working with a 183 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: bunch of other people whose names are forgotten from mystery, 184 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: who I didn't feel like writing into my script, so 185 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: they will continue to be forgotten. And he still did 186 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: a lot no matter what. He got an immovable type, 187 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: and he also invented an alloy of lead, tin and 188 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: antimony called type metal that was very good to cast 189 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: type out of, basically like making you know, casting each 190 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: individual letter so that you can print with it. Sure, 191 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: he developed really neat ways of casting type. He developed 192 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: oil based inks that did a really good job of printing, 193 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: and just like all around good job Gutenberg. He he 194 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: took things further than anyone else had taken them as 195 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: far as I can tell, mhm. And this time movable type. 196 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: It takes off. Within a decade, it's all over Europe. 197 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: You've got this massive explosion of media and literacy and 198 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: all kinds of neat ship. The most famous thing he 199 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: did is in that fourteen fifty five or you know, 200 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: before he even invented this, in he printed the Gutenberg Bible, 201 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: which was the first type set Bible, which probably did 202 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: a lot for people being Christians. I guess, I don't know. 203 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: The printing press first reached Mexico and the fifteen hundreds, 204 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: it first reached what became later the US in early 205 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: sixteen hundreds, when a woman actually started the first printing 206 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: press in the United States, Elizabeth Glover feminist icon, I know, 207 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: and like many medieval feminist icons or Renaissance femist icons 208 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: or whatever, she became in charge of things through the 209 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: old fashioned method of her husband dying. Her husband was like, 210 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: we're taking this print and press to America, babe, and 211 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: she was like, all right, that's cool. And then on 212 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: the boat over he mysteriously died. I don't actually think 213 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: she murdered him, but I wish she had. That would 214 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: have been more. I like that headcanon though, And so 215 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: you know, he probably died of smallpox. Because it's the 216 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: seventeenth century, right, So women have been involved in printing 217 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: since the beginning of printing, basically before it was the US. 218 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: The first woman editor of a newspaper was named Katerina Zanger, 219 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: who took over the business from her husband. And this 220 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: time she took over because he was in jail for printing. 221 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: Like pamphlets critical of the governor, and then later he 222 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: died and so she became the first woman editor of 223 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: a newspaper. Mm hmm. Western World gets ahold of the 224 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: printing press and printing they did. And the thing that's 225 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: really interesting is that for fucking hundreds of years, more 226 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: or less than toil than eighteen eighties, the basic idea 227 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: of how printing was done didn't change mm hmm. Like 228 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: it was a stationary and not entirely right. There was 229 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: like different things people developed, but overall more or less 230 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: like a mature technology for like four hundred years. Okay, 231 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: you know, when it's not broke, don't fix it. Yeah, 232 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: until whatever e eighties and then fix it. Yeah, and yep, Wow, 233 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: amazing contribution, Caitlin. I'm killing it and being so funny 234 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: and charming and hilarious. Yeah, you're totally going to get 235 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: your cold here. Thank you, Sophie get at left. I 236 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: don't know why I were doing this bit where if 237 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: you don't perform, you stay sick. You invent I know, 238 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: but but why did you let me? I thought you 239 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: were in charge? No, this is yeah, you're the arbiter 240 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: of accountability. So interesting, not funny kitly. Oh no, I 241 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: feel so sick. So the way that people sit type 242 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: for hundreds of years, going back to Gutenberg, is that 243 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: type setters would spell out each word letter by letter. 244 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen a type case, like an actual 245 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: physical object that holds type. I have no idea how 246 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: common about I think in real life, but I feel 247 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: like I've seen it in a movie, maybe at the 248 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: end of like Little Women or something like that. Yeah. Probably, 249 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: you know. It's funny too to me because like, um, 250 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the like little like knickknack shelves that 251 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: people have in their house, like the little tiny knick 252 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: knack shells, a little tiny squares cut out of it 253 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: or whatever, right, Like I think actually a lot of 254 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: them are literally type cases wooden cases like trays meant 255 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: for holding type. And certainly that that's an easy way 256 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: to imagine a type case. And this is where upper 257 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: case and lower case letters come from. Is like literally 258 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: the capitals were in the upper case and the non 259 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: capitals were in the lower case. So you pull out 260 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: a letter one at a time, and you put it 261 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: upside down and backwards onto something called a composity and stick, 262 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: which is a little stick that you can fit type into. 263 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: You do it one line at a time until it 264 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: goes into an iron frame called a chase, and you 265 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: fill everything, all the rest of it up with like 266 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: blocks of wood or different slugs of lead and all 267 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: this other ship in order to like fill it all 268 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: up right to do the layout, and then that gets 269 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: inked and printed. And some folks still do this. I 270 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: got to do it once. I used to have business. 271 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm totally not pretentious. I used a business cards that 272 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: I like. Yeah, I use my friends letter press to 273 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: hand set all the type on my fun And did 274 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: that take a very long time. It's like I don't 275 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: have the longest name in the world. I don't even remember. 276 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,719 Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't know what I was doing. And 277 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: my poor friend had likes it over my shoulder and 278 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: be like, now you're doing it wrong, like several times. Um, 279 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: but I don't know. I didn't didn't take an hour 280 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: just to lay out my name or whatever. You know. Yeah, 281 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: I guess a business card doesn't have a lot of 282 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: text on it. Yeah, unless I get into like the 283 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: Dr Bronner's style business cards or something which food for thought. Yeah, 284 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: if someone hand me a business carden, it was like 285 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: full of indecipherable, complicated theology. I would probably be more 286 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: interested in what in my own fighting into my life. 287 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: So the type setting is a nasty business in the 288 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: colonial era, and actually for a long long time, presses 289 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: were cleaned with urine to get the end lie and 290 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: all kinds of off. You don't really want to hang 291 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: out with urine. I don't know, and I wish I did, 292 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: and nothing I immediately read would tell me mm hmm. 293 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's animal urine or whether like 294 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: a lot of these printers drank a lot of beer, 295 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: so it could have just been there urine, I don't know. 296 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: In dark, unventilated basements is where you were working, they'd 297 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: be like lit by like whale oil lamps or kerosene, 298 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: depending on the era. Sometimes these rooms are a hundred 299 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: and thirty degrees because of all the type molten crap 300 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: that they're fucking dealing with. Typesetters would hold lead type 301 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: in their mouths in order, you know, in the same 302 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: way that you hold a nail while you're being a 303 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: cartoon character on a ladder with a hammer. So they're 304 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: getting lead poisoning. They're breathing in piss fumes, it's hot, 305 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: it's you know, there's flammable lamps. Yeah, getting knocked over, 306 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: I'm guessing. Yeah, yeah, actually that gets us. That's guess 307 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: to someone I want to mention. In the eight hundreds, 308 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: at one point um it was estimated at twelve percent 309 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: of printers had had the symptom spits blood. M I 310 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: don't know. He's just spinning some blood up every now 311 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: and then he's like, oh, hold on, guess it's some 312 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: blood up, which I've seen a movie. I don't know 313 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: if you've ever seen a movie, but if someone is 314 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: coughing there, they might die. If someone is spitting up blood, 315 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: they are not even making it to the last act 316 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: of the film. They're they're already dead. And that's what 317 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: I will get sick with if I'm not funny Enough's 318 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: blood my hardcore band. So they contracted a friend of 319 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: the pod tuberculosis at about twice the rate of everyone else, 320 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: which was saying something because everyone else got a lot 321 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: of tuberculosis and venture and the presses themselves were crazy dangerous. 322 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: Like at one point it was like like they would 323 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: like eat fingers, you know, like because why it's just 324 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: like you get your finger in the wrong way and like, whoops, 325 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: it gets sliced off. Whatever. Sorry, I thought you were 326 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: talking about the people who worked at the press and 327 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: they were just just that's why the printers roamed as 328 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: they needed new flesh eat. So it's like that movie. Um, 329 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this would have been a good joke 330 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: if I could have thought of the title of the 331 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: movie I just saw two days ago. No, klin are 332 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: you coughing? You can't get the joke out. It's the 333 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: Blood Bones and all buns and all. Well, that's a 334 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: good name for a movie. I've never heard of it. Um, 335 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: it's about like cannibal, like the early twenties cannibal people 336 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: calling in love anyway, So you're speaking of the machine 337 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: itself eats people's fingers, not the people. Are people probably 338 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: not eating a ton of fingers, Like, can't say never sure, 339 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: But you know what else won't eat your fingers? You 340 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: don't know that. You know what else probably won't eat 341 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: your fingers most of the time. Approved is it the 342 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: products and services you're about to hear about? It is? 343 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: And if it's one of those true crime podcasts about 344 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: people who eat people, then I was wrong and we 345 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: didn't authorize it. Here's some podcasts. No, here's some ads, 346 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: usually for podcasts. And we are back, Kalen. What do 347 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: you think of those, um buying goods and services? Oh 348 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: my favorite. Yeah, they're so good, except for the terrible ones. Yeah, yeah, 349 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: which is a lot of them. So the other ways 350 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: that prints would die, uh sometimes they would dry the 351 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: type like the ink over flame. And sometimes for some 352 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 1: odd reason, drying ink on paper over flame would ignite. 353 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: Uh uh yeah, and so that wasn't very good. Um. 354 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: And then my other weird self insert about printing into 355 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: this episode is that I apprenticed as a as a 356 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: printer for one summer once when I was bored, and 357 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: and the first day I showed up Charles Oberbeck, who 358 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: wrote the book Tramp Printers, which is a lot of 359 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: what I'm pulling from. It's a very good book. He 360 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: was like, you need to tie your hair back. If 361 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: that falls into the machine, it will rip your hair 362 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: out of your scalp. So and that's the modern offset printers. 363 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: That's not so. I don't know whether people were losing 364 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: their hair or not. I can't speak to that part. 365 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: I mean, if they're losing fingers, they're probably losing hair, Yeah, totally. 366 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: So the life expectancy for printers from about eight eighteen 367 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: five D was you want to guess this fun was 368 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: it like thirty seven years old? It's so optimistic less, 369 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: I guess probably the average lifespan that during that time, 370 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: let's thirty seven. So let's say twenty six, it was 371 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: twenty eight years old. Okay, that's how long printers were lasting. 372 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 1: Later they get unionized and we'll talk about that part 373 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: of the story in a little bit, and their life 374 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: expectancy went up dramatically, so much so that by the 375 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: average printer lived to be forty one years Wow for them. Yeah, 376 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: so printing was actually this very no future job. It 377 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: was very punk rock in all of the negative ways, 378 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: you know. Hell yeah, printing was fairly cheap all told. 379 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: During this time. With this style of printing, you could 380 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: start a press without a ton of capital compared to 381 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: a lot of other business ventures. So presses followed the 382 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: westward expansion across the US as part of the great 383 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: colonial project that they don't really have very many positive 384 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: things to say about. Often, mere days after a town 385 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: or something would show up, ox drawn carts would bring 386 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: hand presses out to the frontier, and some of which 387 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: were up and running and like printing that town's newspaper 388 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: before buildings were erected to house the presses. Because the 389 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: presses are these like giant hulking industrial machine, not giant hulking, 390 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: but like they're sturdy, right, sure you can. You can 391 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: have it out in the weather a little bit. And 392 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: at least in the beginning of Paddington too, I've seen 393 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: a printing press, yeah, totally. And I've know who Paddington 394 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: Bear is. For those listening eight full twenty six minutes 395 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: for Caitlin's reference Paddington And that is a new record, 396 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: my friend. How long do you think it will take 397 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: into my reference Titanic? It's right now. It just happened. 398 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: We just well, we actually already talked about Shrekh, although 399 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: in a different way to speak of the green ogre 400 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: Shrek who was also have that come up? Mm hmm. Anyway, 401 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: So one of the other dangers of printing presses was 402 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: that you could say stuff with printing presses very easily. 403 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: And some people don't like it when you talk shit, 404 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: but it's a very good machine for talking. Ship a 405 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: lot of people started getting shot and stabbed over what 406 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: they said in their papers, especially in the US Frontier, 407 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: especially when they were saying stuff like maybe pretending like 408 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: you own people is a bad thing. So I don't 409 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: know if you knew this, but the entire US had 410 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: this whole big argument about that concept. At one point 411 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: it got kind of violent. Yeah, yeah, I remember, I 412 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: was no, I wasn't there. So take, for instance, Susan B. 413 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: Anthony's brother. He was a newspaper editor named Daniel Read Anthony. 414 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: He moved to Kansas and he set up an anti 415 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: slavery newspaper because he wanted to, and that is a 416 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: good thing to want to do and a good thing 417 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: to do. So he's our first named cool person who 418 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: did cool stuff in this episode. Nice. His first week 419 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: running that paper living in Kansas, he was attacked three 420 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: times by pro slavery mobs, and that motherfucker he spent 421 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: his life walking around with two horse pistols on his waist. 422 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: What is a horse pistol, you might ask, I was 423 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: just gonna ask, I had to ask. I asked the internet. 424 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: Horse pistol is his old timey pistol that's so large 425 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: that you can't comfortably carry it at your waist, you 426 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: carry it on your horse alongside the saddles. Just a 427 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: big old pirate gun. And now do you think that 428 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: when you saw that bit of graffiti in you said Amsterdam, 429 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: and I said, like for originally it said what was 430 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: it like, change the world make it worse? The world, 431 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: make it worse, and then someone change changed that to 432 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: said to say make it horsey. Do you think that's 433 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: what they meant by make it horsey? Probably to introduce 434 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: some horse pistols. Yeah. It was actually a a big 435 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: second pro Second Amendment movement in Amsterdam where they said 436 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: we should amend things so that we can carry horse pistols. 437 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,479 Speaker 1: Very specific argument that they that they were making. So 438 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: our guy, Daniel Reid Anthony he uh, he carried two 439 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: of them at his waist, even though they specifically were 440 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: designed for being too big to carry at your waist. 441 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: And the two of them, I think, I think these 442 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 1: are single shot pistols. Is like long enough ago, right, 443 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: I don't think that. I think that's why he is too. 444 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: It's not so he's like dual wielding them anime style, 445 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: but the whole thing has a very anime vibe of 446 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: like two oversized guns mm hmm. He also got into 447 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: arguments with other publishers. There was a rival pro slavery 448 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: publisher who called him a coward. Daniel Reid Anthony, not 449 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: being a coward, challenged him to a duel. I am 450 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: not coming in one way or the other about the 451 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: dual argument and masculinity and autonomy and all kinds of 452 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: weird ship. Sure, he told the guy h and shot 453 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: him to death in the street and was acquitted at trial. 454 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure his defense was we were dueling, it's Kansas, 455 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: leave me alone. I feel like that was a valid 456 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: defense back in the day. Yeah, during the Civil War, 457 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: after he shot a one pro slavery guy to death, 458 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: he volunteered and joined the cavalry, and so he probably 459 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: was able to vent this point to start keeping his 460 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: horse pistols on his horse because using the cavalry. He 461 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: later he gets out and he goes back to Kansas 462 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: and he keeps publishing papers. A rival publisher shoots him 463 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: in the chest, not in a duel, just ambushes him, 464 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: and she was I know she was. People when you're dueling, 465 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: consensual shooting. When you're dueling, you know what you're getting into. 466 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: You're like, I might be shot. I might shoot someone, 467 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: but we're both it's two consenting parties. Yeah, well I 468 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: think that that's what Kansas was a fine, that's consent state. 469 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: If you're if you have an opinion pro or anti 470 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: slavery in Kansas, you're consenting to shoot or be shot 471 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: at the other side. Yeah. So he survives getting shot 472 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: right next to the heart, and like everyone thought he 473 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: was dead, and he was like, no, I'm not dead, 474 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: I'm fucking Daniel read Anthony, And so he kept publishing 475 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: a bunch of dangerous ship and another paper. During all 476 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,719 Speaker 1: of this stuff. There was like he was not the 477 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: only newspaper writer. It was like shooting and getting shots 478 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: right all this He's just the one who I found 479 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: most interesting. Another paper at the time wrote that someone 480 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: should quote stuff and preserve a specimen Kansas editor before 481 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: the race becomes extinct altogether, because they were all dying 482 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: so much. Who knew that between having to work in 483 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: weird little basements covered in piss while you're spitting up 484 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: blood and getting shot all the time for the rhetoric 485 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: that you're printing, that it would be one of the 486 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: most dangerous professions of the time. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, 487 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: like a real like rough and tumble job. And and 488 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: one of the things is going to come up a 489 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: little bit later. But at the time, newspaper editors mostly 490 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: came out of being type setters rather than later, once 491 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: type setting became a less specialized craft with the additional 492 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: addition additional machinery, more and more type setters were coming 493 00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: out of like journalism school. And I'm not making an 494 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: opinion about this, um, but basically it was like we 495 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: had to be a weird, rough and tumble type setter 496 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: in order to end up being a newspaper editor for 497 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: a while. So they should make a movie about that anyway. 498 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: And actually, yeah, like the Cowboys of the West, but 499 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: they're typesetters, type setters. Yeah, now these people like this 500 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: is like why I like picked this topic because I 501 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: had heard a little bits and hints because the person 502 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: I promised underwrote the book about them and would talk 503 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: about them sometimes, you know, and I would like to 504 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: hear these little bits and hints of this like culture 505 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: that I had no idea about, and no one I 506 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: this is not a not to be like, oh I've 507 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: uncovered this forgotten, but it's just like it's it's just 508 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: not the ship we talk about, you know, it's not 509 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: within the specific mythos of like the wild West that 510 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: people talk about. Mm hmm. So there was another enemy 511 00:31:53,440 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: that editors and printers faced, which was capitalist exploitation, and 512 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: I've heard of it. Yeah, yeah, I'm glad that this 513 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: is a it's a relic of the nineteenth century. It's 514 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: thank goodness it's no longer. They figured out a way 515 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: to fight against that, and which brings us to some 516 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: of the coolest and some of the well the big 517 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: one funk off on cool. Part of what we're going 518 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: to talk about is their labor union done. That's my 519 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: like clippanger even I'm about to go into it because 520 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: at the end of the episode, thank you appreciate that 521 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: we're going back in time again. The U S didn't 522 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: even have a constitution yet. That would come next year, 523 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: and it only had its name the United States of 524 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: America for ten years. And so some printers in Philadelphia 525 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: they were like, we're being treated like ship, and we 526 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: don't like it. And a couple of years earlier, some 527 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: printers in New York have been like, we're being treated 528 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: like ship. We don't like it. If you don't pay 529 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: us more, we'll walk off the job. And the editors 530 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: have been like, all right, well, here's some money. And 531 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: so they tried to do the same thing in Philadelphia. 532 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: They were like, we're being treated like shit. We want 533 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: a dollar a day. Because at the time, a lot 534 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: of labors are getting paid by the day, and you 535 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: have this like nasty thing that employers would do where 536 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: if you're paying someone by the day, you hire them 537 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: during the summer when the days are long, and then 538 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: you fire them in the winter when the days are short. Yeah, 539 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: And so the printers were getting that happening, and they 540 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: were like, look, we want a dollar a day, and 541 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: they went on strike. Only they didn't use the word 542 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: strike because it was so long ago that strike wasn't 543 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: used in that context in the US. Yet it became 544 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: a in case anyone was curious. It became a verb 545 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: in seventeen sixty eight when English sailors struck, which is 546 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: probably a reference to them taking down the sales, striking 547 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: the sales. And it's likely that it didn't become a 548 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: noun like a strike until a long time later. But 549 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, I do know. I read 550 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: some matemology about it, but I'm not sure entirely believe it. 551 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: The thing I read claimed it wasn't until the eighteen 552 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: hundreds that people used to the down, and but it 553 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: was like what it was a verb like hundred years 554 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: before that anyway, whatever, I know, you really came here 555 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: for the amology of strike. So what they did they 556 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,959 Speaker 1: called a turnout, and turn out they did, and they won. 557 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: And this was America's first labor strike as America and 558 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:24,240 Speaker 1: um and it was one apparently fairly handily all right, nice, 559 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: And so they start being like, printers are like, oh, 560 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: we we stick together, right, And they already had kind 561 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: of a guild model going on, sort of based on 562 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 1: the craft guilds that you would have like the medieval 563 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: guild system of apprenticeships and all that ship, right, And 564 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: but it's like unionizing started kind of coming around. They 565 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: were like, we're going to form a union, and it 566 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: started off informally, like a lot of good things do. 567 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: They agreed that they would never give up the right 568 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: to strike, and they went for a long apprent They 569 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: like coalesced and held strong this idea of printers would 570 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: have a long apprenticeship program before they would like become 571 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: guild members or union members or whatever, and they emphasized 572 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: being like really good at the work and taking pride 573 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 1: in a job well done instead of just like just 574 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: being laborers or whatever. They also worked for closed shops, 575 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: basically being like, no, everyone who works in the shop 576 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: must be a member of the union. They also worked 577 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 1: to keep printing a sort of secret society which had 578 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: actually been going on for hundreds of years. There's this 579 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,359 Speaker 1: whole weird, ironic and kind of interesting thing I want 580 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: to know more about some point where with a history 581 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: of printing in the Western world, most information about printing 582 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: passed by word of mouth rather than the printed word. Yeah, 583 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: and that's irony. I know, I mean, I think it is. 584 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: I got my brain got broken when two people told 585 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: me when I was a teenager and they told me 586 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: that lensmore SAT's song ironic isn't ironic, And so then 587 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: I just stopped comprehending the word people to even have 588 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: the capacity to understand what irony is. Yeah, I know, 589 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: I'm I'm like, is this irony? I still don't quite know. 590 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: There was like a Freemason's but for like printers. Yeah, basically, wow, 591 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: teenage Margaret's mind would have been blown, whoa, it isn't 592 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: that ironic. Maybe I don't think it's probably not sardonic. 593 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 1: I feel like I have a stronger handle on that, 594 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: which is like sarcast. See I don't even know what 595 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: sardonic means even a little bit unsick. Oh wait, grimly 596 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: I'm not even joking about grimly, mocking or cynical. Well 597 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 1: that describes me quite a bit. So yeah, you're fairly sardonic. Yeah, 598 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: I mean thanks, Yeah, wow, Okay. I was glad I 599 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: had listened to beckdel Cast before I came onto beckdel Cast, 600 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: because I was like, ah, I see this is the 601 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 1: dry humor, which I really like. I really like dry humor. 602 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 1: But thank you. Yeah yeah, so u s printers. They 603 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: took this close shot mentality seriously and they distributed rat lists, 604 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: which was that everyone who worked for too cheap um 605 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: or otherwise betrayed everyone else, because if you took a 606 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: printing job for less than the going rate, you funk 607 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 1: up everyone's ability to get that rate. So these were 608 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: like the scabs, yeah exactly. And it was kind of 609 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: before this came about, even before they were a union, 610 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: I believe, so it wasn't even quite scabbing. Because they 611 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: weren't necessarily like working on a place that was on strike. 612 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: But just basically, if you were like working for cheap 613 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: as a printery, you or a fucking rat. And if 614 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,919 Speaker 1: you taught non union workers how to print, you would 615 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: be ostracized, ship talked, or just jumped. And that actually 616 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 1: will tie back into the really messy thing about all 617 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 1: of this. Got it. Eventually they created the National Typographical 618 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,760 Speaker 1: Union in eighteen d two, which was the first national 619 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: trade union in the US. And the union was so 620 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,760 Speaker 1: old school that it stuck to a bunch of medieval 621 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: ship I think left over from it being basically a guild. 622 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: The local union was called a chapel, and the chapel 623 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: elected a father as the chairman, who is the most 624 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:22,879 Speaker 1: senior member of the shop. Okay, what about a mother? Well, 625 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: sound we'll talk. Actually this isn't the big route. They 626 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: did let women in. But first, do you know who 627 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: else has a craft or profession that they operate within 628 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: a marketplace in order to feed themselves and other people 629 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: and then advertise the things that they create on podcasts? 630 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, you know who 631 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: else let women in? That's where I thought you were 632 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: going with that, the Highway State Patrol. Who oh yeah, 633 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: I don't think it's advertised on this show in a 634 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: very long time, maybe never on this one. No. Yeah, 635 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 1: I we actually were able to get them removed. It 636 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: just took an absurd amount of time and we had 637 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,280 Speaker 1: no power over it, and it made me very unhappy. 638 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 1: I'm so tired. Well, all of the ads that you 639 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: were about to listen to were handpicked by Caitlyn Durante. 640 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: And if you have any problem morally ethically whatever the 641 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: difference who those two words is? Speaking of words, I 642 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 1: don't know the difference between I use all the time. 643 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: You can talk to Caitlyn Durrante about your problems with 644 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: the ads that are now about to be her, and 645 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: you can tweet at her at at I right, okay, yeah, 646 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: that's okay, like oklahoma, not okay, like okay, okay, and 647 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,919 Speaker 1: we are back. Yeah. So your father was the most 648 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: senior member of your shop most most of the time. Uh. 649 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: I don't know whether or not any specific ones had mothers, 650 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: or whether women in that role called fathers. Anyway, the 651 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: cool thing, I don't know if you knew this, but 652 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: sometimes we're written out of history and they only talk 653 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: about boys. What. I've never heard that before. Yeah, I 654 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: mean that would be a massive Was that me being sardonic? 655 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 1: I still don't understand quite now. I don't know mo 656 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: being sardonic when you say that, I don't know, or 657 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: am I being ironic? I don't know. I don't know. 658 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: We should ask the expert. What if one day we 659 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: get just giving people the we don't know ironic, the 660 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,280 Speaker 1: we don't know? I think Caitlyn sardonic. I think Caitlyn 661 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: is sardonic as well. I take that as a huge compliment. Yeah, 662 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 1: it's intended you don't give me the ick, and I 663 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 1: haven't seen you being ironic in the last four minutes. 664 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with sardonic. Yeah, okay, cool passive illumination. Yeah, 665 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: this is gonna be the thing that we get the 666 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: most random Internet people giving us feedback on on anything 667 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 1: that's done on the shop. Yeah. Actually, sardonic means blah 668 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Also, um, somebody some I'm like again 669 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 1: at I write okay on Twitter, that is where you 670 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: can send that feedback. Yeah, and if you want to 671 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: get through I write okay spam filters, you have to um, 672 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: the secret code is you look up the word pedant 673 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: and then you put the copy and paste the definition 674 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: of the word pedant into it. All right, which wasn't 675 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,240 Speaker 1: a slight at I right, Okay, it was a slight 676 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,720 Speaker 1: about people who have a problem with Okay whatever. Anyway, 677 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 1: all right, so all of this should have ruled all 678 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: this stuff about the union, Like they sound fucking cool 679 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: as hell, And I started off this episode researching and 680 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: being like, hell, yeah, these people rule. Um. They did 681 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 1: a lot of good stuff. They supported strikes, they organized 682 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: legal defense funds, They built retirement homes for their union printers. 683 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,759 Speaker 1: They soon became the international type of epical union when 684 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: they started including Canadian printers. They struck for the shorter 685 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: hour work day for decades. They lost the fight for 686 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: the nine hour workday in eight seven, but they won 687 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: the eight hour worked in nineteen o seven after organizing 688 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: strikes all across the country, and this paved the way 689 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,440 Speaker 1: for other trades to win the same concessions. So they 690 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: did all of this amazing groundbreaking work. They were one 691 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: of the first unions to let women in. Uh. They 692 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: absorbed the Women's Typographical Union of New York in eighteen 693 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: seventy one, and the logic they used makes sense. They 694 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 1: were like, well, if we allow women into the union, 695 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,919 Speaker 1: then women won't be hired as scabs, you know, because 696 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,399 Speaker 1: they're with us, right And and most of what I'm 697 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 1: talking about today, the most of the stuff that's woken 698 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: into the history is mostly about individual men. But there 699 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,280 Speaker 1: were women there too. For a lot of printing presses. 700 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: Through a couple of the different decades that I'll be 701 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,399 Speaker 1: talking about, the majority of printers were women. Um, they 702 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: were a minority of the tramp printers. They still did 703 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: do that, but for a lot of well basically, women 704 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 1: didn't have a fucking never have an easy time in 705 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,880 Speaker 1: the workplace, and so they faced a lot of harassment 706 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: in the workplace. And so like randomly going to new 707 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: shops all the time as a tramp printer meant exposing 708 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,760 Speaker 1: yourself to harassment on the road and meant exposing yourself 709 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 1: to a whole new set of people. Um, just like 710 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: being a comedian, like a woman in comedy. Yeah, going 711 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:30,799 Speaker 1: on the road, everyone's being gross at you. Anyway, Well, 712 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: clearly you must have been doing it in the nineteenth century, 713 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,720 Speaker 1: because now that would never happen exactly if you imagine 714 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: it happening, you're wrong and incorrectly assessing the amount of 715 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 1: harassment that you're receiving. Yes, um, somehow I wish I 716 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,840 Speaker 1: knew what time they stopped using gas for gaslights, so 717 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 1: I could somehow tight it in a little bit more efficiently, 718 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,439 Speaker 1: because no one got gasolate in the twentieth century because 719 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 1: it was electrical. That's my joke. I'm desperately trying to 720 00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 1: make jokes as if I'm the one who's gonna get 721 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,359 Speaker 1: sick if I sucked this up. Well, you know what, 722 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:11,919 Speaker 1: the tables have turned. Helen Torrante decides who lives and dies. Yeah, 723 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: put that on a T shirt and well, so one 724 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: thing that was cool by the women in the Union 725 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,879 Speaker 1: were given equal pay same as men hundred fifty years 726 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: ago printing women in the Union got the same equal 727 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 1: pay for white women. That's the bad part. This is 728 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 1: the part that we're going to talk about. Here's where 729 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,879 Speaker 1: the story gets shitty. They didn't let black people into 730 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: the union. For a long time, I've run across conflicting 731 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,359 Speaker 1: information about this in a couple of books, like as 732 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: best as I can tell. For the first very long time, 733 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 1: at least for the first seventy years of the union, 734 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 1: they either explicitly excluded black workers from joining or they 735 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,800 Speaker 1: have allowed individual locals to choose to exclude black workers. 736 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: My this is the former, but I have read things 737 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:08,839 Speaker 1: that make both claims. Okay, the black author who have 738 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,120 Speaker 1: anything I've ever read by him for this show has 739 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,360 Speaker 1: just been a fucking hit and it's like amazing. W. B. 740 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 1: Dubois wrote about this in UM and this isn't a 741 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 1: magazine that on the front says is union printed quote. 742 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 1: I carry on the title page, for instance, of this 743 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: magazine the union label. And yet I know and every 744 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 1: one of my Negro readers knows that the very fact 745 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,160 Speaker 1: that this label is there is an advertisement that no 746 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,800 Speaker 1: Negro's hand is engaged in the printing of this magazine, 747 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:43,000 Speaker 1: since the International Typographical Union systematically and deliberately excludes every 748 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,840 Speaker 1: Negro that it dares from membership, no matter what his qualifications. 749 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 1: And I feel like that really cuts it. What's really 750 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:57,000 Speaker 1: important is now the label union made means white, maide 751 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 1: in this union that tries to be the union of 752 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 1: printers in the entire country. UM and this is awful 753 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 1: A ton of levels like one. It's awful because fuck 754 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: them for not allowing black people into their union. Yeah. 755 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,840 Speaker 1: And second of all, it makes everything they did that 756 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:20,439 Speaker 1: should have been really cool really shitty because closed shop 757 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,759 Speaker 1: unions are an important part of labor organizing practices right 758 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,160 Speaker 1: where you have to be union in order to work 759 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: certain industries. If you're if your clothes shop union is racist, 760 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:37,680 Speaker 1: then it's systematically excluding people from entire industries, and it's 761 00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 1: not just any industry. Printing was the only form of 762 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 1: mass communication for most of this time. Of course, black 763 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,520 Speaker 1: folks printed anyways, just not in the I t U. 764 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,240 Speaker 1: And since the I TU tried to maintain a monopoly 765 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 1: over print shops, that put them in conflict in the 766 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,120 Speaker 1: I t U s eighteen sixty nine and eighteen seventy conventions, 767 00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,400 Speaker 1: this whole thing was angrily and fiercely debated, and uh 768 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: a sizeable minority of people wanted to not be a 769 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:08,839 Speaker 1: bunch of fucking racists. They lost out, and they used 770 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,920 Speaker 1: a peculiar and shitty and hypocritical logic of how they 771 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: excluded black people. The first person who was specifically excluded 772 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: for race was Frederick Douglas's son L. H. Douglas. He 773 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,279 Speaker 1: tried to join the Union, and the argument against letting 774 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,240 Speaker 1: him was, Look, this has nothing to do with race. 775 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: We're not racists. It's just that he's a rat, and 776 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 1: we hate him because he was a rat because he 777 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:41,320 Speaker 1: had worked printing jobs because he wasn't allowed being the union, 778 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,640 Speaker 1: which was the inverse of this is exactly the argument 779 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,279 Speaker 1: that they used about why they let women in, right, 780 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:49,920 Speaker 1: because they didn't want women to be rats, so they 781 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: let them in. And I really don't like this. It 782 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: just makes me really angry. I like, I discovered this, like, 783 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,680 Speaker 1: um like three quarters of the way through researching the topic, 784 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: and I'm so angry. I'm so pissed off. It does 785 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,400 Speaker 1: really taint things. And I know that the national Organization 786 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,799 Speaker 1: did not pass a resolution um that some folks tried 787 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,919 Speaker 1: to pass stopping racial discrimination. And I don't know whether 788 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 1: or not individual locals lead in black people, because I 789 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,080 Speaker 1: know there were black tramp printers because a couple of 790 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: them came up in the reading, but they were likely 791 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,840 Speaker 1: from the later the twentieth century incarnation of tramp printing, 792 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,640 Speaker 1: which was also through the I tu the the Union, 793 00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,120 Speaker 1: but it was a different time. And I can't find 794 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,719 Speaker 1: when the Union started letting black people in my guest 795 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,359 Speaker 1: is somewhere between the twenties and the fifties, because that's 796 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,919 Speaker 1: when most of the less radical American labor unions start 797 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,400 Speaker 1: to reckon with their racism. And I do know that 798 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: they were like on the side of some splits within 799 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,759 Speaker 1: the labor movement that were like the good and less 800 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,760 Speaker 1: racist side of some splits in like the twenties and thirties. 801 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,400 Speaker 1: And it's like, I feel like I like get punished 802 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,239 Speaker 1: for like I've all the other times I've talked about 803 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: unions on the show, I've been talking about like the 804 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,600 Speaker 1: radical unions, and the radical unions were always like what 805 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,640 Speaker 1: the funk That union won't let put someone in based 806 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,120 Speaker 1: on their race? Fuck them, you know. And I'm usually 807 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,120 Speaker 1: using these unions that are kind of examples of like 808 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:14,920 Speaker 1: when people are like, oh, everyone's racist the time, and 809 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 1: be like not these fucking people, fuck you, you know, 810 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:28,120 Speaker 1: uh today, uh So anyway, whatever, Okay, So that's our 811 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 1: our union. That seems really cool, but it's kind of 812 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,360 Speaker 1: sucked up when you look under the hood. Yeah, And 813 00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk a little bit more about the systems 814 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,160 Speaker 1: that they set up and how it ties in a 815 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,960 Speaker 1: tramp printing this is this is a real kill Joy 816 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:45,359 Speaker 1: strikes again our today with this particular episode. So if 817 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:46,920 Speaker 1: you're a printer, if you want to be a printer, 818 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,960 Speaker 1: and you're a white kid, you start off as an apprentice, 819 00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,640 Speaker 1: he says. The whole thing is wildly old timey even 820 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:57,040 Speaker 1: for its day. The apprentices get called printers, devils um 821 00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,760 Speaker 1: when they're working in the chapel under the father Nothing. 822 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,040 Speaker 1: I love this language. That. Yeah, and you start at 823 00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,400 Speaker 1: the age of like twelve, there's the youngest twelve, and 824 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,000 Speaker 1: you get called a devil because you start off in 825 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,600 Speaker 1: the hot and toxic casting room, which is where all 826 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,720 Speaker 1: the damaged type gets dumped into a quote hell box 827 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,440 Speaker 1: in order to be melted down and recast. Sorry, let 828 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,239 Speaker 1: me back up for a second. They so it's this 829 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,919 Speaker 1: union that excludes black people number one, And it's also 830 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:36,440 Speaker 1: like child labor is awesome. What are you saying? Just 831 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,560 Speaker 1: checking just what I want to make sure I understand that, 832 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,759 Speaker 1: you think, Yeah, where you take the children and you 833 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,920 Speaker 1: put them in the room with the most toxic stuff. Yeah, yeah, 834 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 1: are they still cleaning things with piss? Believe? And actually 835 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,680 Speaker 1: one of the things that the union does a little 836 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,440 Speaker 1: bit later is someone develops like it was so excited 837 00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:03,280 Speaker 1: that you were like yes, like is there pp cleaning products? 838 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 1: Good to know? Fantastic? At one point, I don't think 839 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,640 Speaker 1: this person in the script at one point, uh, the 840 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,360 Speaker 1: union like they often try to stop new technologies that 841 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 1: are specific I mean a lot of the new technologies 842 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,760 Speaker 1: are specifically like let's break the union and by creating 843 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: these new technologies that lets us fire a bunch of workers. 844 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,920 Speaker 1: And I think one of the technologies they stopped was 845 00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 1: a way to clean with like these like rolling devices 846 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:32,400 Speaker 1: that didn't involve hearing. In the union was like no, 847 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:38,440 Speaker 1: we we want our piss um. That was probably the 848 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,600 Speaker 1: signs that they held up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they 849 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:47,120 Speaker 1: successfully stopped that technology. So as a as a young 850 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,880 Speaker 1: printer's devil, Caitlin, it's your job to build up the 851 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,920 Speaker 1: shop fire in the morning, hall water, wash rollers and 852 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:58,880 Speaker 1: forms m piss yes, yes, with piss fold newspapers, maybe 853 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,040 Speaker 1: deliver the newspapers that her seems likely kind of blurry, 854 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 1: seems to tie into the newsiest thing, and it's probably 855 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,319 Speaker 1: different in different place. I was gonna say, wow, there's 856 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 1: a lot a lot of tie ins. Yeah, you would 857 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,560 Speaker 1: also dis the type as well, which means you take 858 00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,319 Speaker 1: they used letters out and you put them back in 859 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,800 Speaker 1: the case, which is how you learn the type cases 860 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:18,799 Speaker 1: so well, as you spend years just taking all the 861 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:20,799 Speaker 1: like when they're done printing, you just like take out 862 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,319 Speaker 1: each individual letter and put it back. M hm. And 863 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,480 Speaker 1: the apprentices were hazed mostly in jovial ways, because the 864 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,359 Speaker 1: mean part of hazing was the job, you know, like 865 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,080 Speaker 1: hanging out in lead fumes and having a short life expectancy, 866 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,680 Speaker 1: like you're twelve, you're halfway done, kid um. The fun 867 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:42,600 Speaker 1: hazing was that you would like send them out for 868 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,160 Speaker 1: impossible task. This kind of ship still happens in offices 869 00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,640 Speaker 1: and stuff like go find a left handed wrench, or 870 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,239 Speaker 1: check the case for type place, or go get a 871 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:56,720 Speaker 1: paper stretcher which doesn't exist. Okay, so these these people 872 00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,960 Speaker 1: have a sense of humor, I know, I'm noticing. They 873 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,239 Speaker 1: actually attempted to do it in an attempt to get 874 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:07,920 Speaker 1: me to spare their lives. So m and as an apprentice, 875 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,799 Speaker 1: you would be exposed to basically the two types of 876 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:15,160 Speaker 1: journeyman printers. The more experienced printers. There's the home guard 877 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,759 Speaker 1: who work in a shop day in and day out. 878 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,279 Speaker 1: They get steady paychecks, they get steady work. They get 879 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,480 Speaker 1: that thing sorts of the p that you get at 880 00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:24,879 Speaker 1: the end of your job if you have a job 881 00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:28,640 Speaker 1: that isn't like my job, pension pension. And then there's 882 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:33,799 Speaker 1: the tramp printers, a huge percentage running from twelve to 883 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,360 Speaker 1: six in different years of like some books of like 884 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,080 Speaker 1: Charts and ship of It, of the union printers of 885 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:41,279 Speaker 1: the I T I TU. They would take out a 886 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,480 Speaker 1: travel card from the union, which was basically the right 887 00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,160 Speaker 1: to show up at any chapel in the country and 888 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,520 Speaker 1: get a job. And so some printers do that for 889 00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,279 Speaker 1: a little while, or some people do it because they 890 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,279 Speaker 1: want to move from one place to another every now 891 00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:57,680 Speaker 1: and then they're like, oh fun this job. I want 892 00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,960 Speaker 1: to go somewhere else, and and or others the real 893 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:06,319 Speaker 1: tramp printers who just tramped, they're just fucking rambled, just 894 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:11,399 Speaker 1: going on the road, road road dogs. An apprentice would 895 00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,120 Speaker 1: see two distinct cultures. They would see two options in 896 00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:18,680 Speaker 1: front of him or her, you know them if and basically, 897 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,600 Speaker 1: I like to imagine it's like you're a girl in 898 00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,960 Speaker 1: a mid teens y a series. You know, um, you 899 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,480 Speaker 1: can pick between the home guard and the tramps. They're 900 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,240 Speaker 1: both fighting for the same team, the union, the white 901 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:36,120 Speaker 1: supremacist organization that m that loves child labor and piss yes. Then, 902 00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,719 Speaker 1: after years of hard work, most apprentices intentionally apply at 903 00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,200 Speaker 1: the toughest shop in town and go work there for 904 00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:46,440 Speaker 1: a little bit. To kind of close out their apprenticeship 905 00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,880 Speaker 1: by like proving they can that done. They apply for 906 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,400 Speaker 1: a journeyman's status. Journeyman's status they joined the I t 907 00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,600 Speaker 1: U and they get a travelers card. They get a 908 00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,160 Speaker 1: set of clothes and some tools, and off you go 909 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,120 Speaker 1: on the freight train or the riverboat. Time to wander 910 00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,319 Speaker 1: and put words into print, but that will have to 911 00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:13,879 Speaker 1: wait until part two. Getting better at these cliffhangers, I think, 912 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:21,200 Speaker 1: mm hmmm, Caitlin, how are you feeling? I feel good. 913 00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:28,239 Speaker 1: It's because you were funny. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not 914 00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:33,919 Speaker 1: spinning up blood. So there's that love that, Caitlin. Where 915 00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:38,840 Speaker 1: can people follow you and or see your work? You 916 00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:46,760 Speaker 1: can follow me on such social media platforms as Instagram, 917 00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,400 Speaker 1: TikTok Yeah I do. I'm kind of I'm more of 918 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:56,440 Speaker 1: these like young hip people who's on TikTok now and um, 919 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:02,160 Speaker 1: you know Twitter, uh on live Twitter jk um and 920 00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,720 Speaker 1: you can follow me at all those places at Caitlin 921 00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:09,320 Speaker 1: Durante and check out my podcast that I co host 922 00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:14,080 Speaker 1: with Jamie Loftus called The Bechtel Cast. It is produced 923 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:21,120 Speaker 1: by a one Sophie Lichtman Hi and we analyze movies 924 00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,280 Speaker 1: through an intersexual feminist lens. And guess who's been a guest. 925 00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:30,279 Speaker 1: It's me Margaret kill Joyce. Oh my gosh. She's great. Yeah. Yeah, 926 00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,680 Speaker 1: as she's kind of pretentious, well overrated, maybe a little 927 00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:38,799 Speaker 1: bit sardonic, maybe a little bit ironic the second, but 928 00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:45,960 Speaker 1: never gives any of us the yeah exactly, yeah, yeph Sophie. 929 00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:50,400 Speaker 1: Do you have anything you want to plug? Uh just 930 00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:54,000 Speaker 1: act cool zone media and all the things. Yeah, I 931 00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,120 Speaker 1: have anything to plug. Oh my god, Margaret, you have 932 00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,520 Speaker 1: a new thing to plug and it's very very well 933 00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,840 Speaker 1: titled go Yeah. Thanks. So I used to plug my 934 00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,640 Speaker 1: old book, my boring book that came out in November. 935 00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,640 Speaker 1: But um, I have a new book coming out in February. 936 00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,160 Speaker 1: It's called Escape from Insul Island and it is available 937 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,520 Speaker 1: through the publishers Strangers and the Tangled Wilderness and you 938 00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:19,160 Speaker 1: can pre order it at Tangled Wilderness dot org. Um, 939 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,960 Speaker 1: and if you preorder it, you get a poster, and 940 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,440 Speaker 1: you also make the book industry, which is otherwise in 941 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,920 Speaker 1: trouble continue a little bit, because pre orders make the 942 00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,000 Speaker 1: world go round in a way that I wish they didn't. 943 00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:35,040 Speaker 1: And it's a fiction book. It's full of lies. You 944 00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,720 Speaker 1: can't trust a word in it. Oh my gosh, who 945 00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:43,560 Speaker 1: printed it? Though? Was it? Now? I wish I like 946 00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,840 Speaker 1: kind of. I don't feel great about the decisions that 947 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,360 Speaker 1: small presses sometimes have to make in terms of working 948 00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,560 Speaker 1: with the printers that are not as ethical, well actually 949 00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,320 Speaker 1: maybe about equally ethical, depending on what time period of 950 00:57:55,360 --> 00:58:00,200 Speaker 1: I you were talking about. That's what I got. I 951 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:08,120 Speaker 1: will see you all on Wednesday. Goodbye, Goodbye. Cool People 952 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,000 Speaker 1: Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media. 953 00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts on cool zone Media, visit our website 954 00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,800 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 955 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,800 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 956 00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:20,880 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.