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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 3: I'm David Ego from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently

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Speaker 3: hit the number one science podcast in America. I mean

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Speaker 3: neuroscientists at Stanford and I've spent my career exploring the

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Speaker 3: three pound universe in our heads.

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Speaker 4: Join me weekly to explore the relationship.

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Speaker 3: Between your brain and your life, because the more we

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Speaker 3: know about what's running under the hood, better we can

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Speaker 3: steer our lives. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman

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Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get

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Speaker 3: your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Daniel, do you ever think about what the night

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Speaker 2: sky looked like to our ancestors?

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Speaker 1: I do. I wonder how it looked at them. And

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Speaker 1: I also like thinking even further back in the past,

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Speaker 1: like what did the dinosaurs see in this guy?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they probably should have looked at this guy more carefully,

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Speaker 2: you know, looking for meteors for example.

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Speaker 1: I know dinosaur astronomers totally fell down on the job,

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Speaker 1: but you can even think further back, like the first

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Speaker 1: eyeballs on Earth five hundred million years ago, you mean.

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Speaker 2: Like microbe astronomers, or you know, I think to the future.

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Speaker 2: I wonder what the night sky will look like to

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Speaker 2: humans billions of years from me.

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Speaker 1: It could be totally different.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if there even are humans.

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Speaker 1: Then Yeah, Well, I'm thinking about the future cockroach astronomers

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Speaker 1: and hoping they will keep an eye on the stars for.

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Speaker 2: Us so whatever they see doesn't bug them. I am

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Speaker 2: more hamm and cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist. And that was

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Speaker 1: the first time I ever said cockroach on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: And astronomers in the same sentence Publicly.

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Speaker 1: I love astronomers. I love astronomy. I'm nothing but pro astronomers.

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Speaker 1: I do like the idea of dinosaur astronomers. That's pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: My favorite story about dinosaur astronomers is that they really

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Speaker 1: did have a chance to save themselves.

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Speaker 2: Your favorite I feel like you thought about this before.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely. You know that the meteor that came

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Speaker 1: and wiped out the dinosaurs made a near pass by

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Speaker 1: the Earth ten years earlier, no way, Yeah, and came

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Speaker 1: close enough that they should have been able to look

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Speaker 1: up and see it in the sky. So if they

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Speaker 1: had funded their version of NASA, they could have saved

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Speaker 1: their own.

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Speaker 2: Lives ten years. You think dinosaurs could have built spaceships.

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Speaker 1: And necessity is the mother of invention, right, do you think.

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Speaker 2: They should have called the dinosaur Bruce Willis, or put

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Speaker 2: them on a spaceship and get him to deflect that

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Speaker 2: asteroid in ten years.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know the other option is what happened, So

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Speaker 1: anything is better than that.

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Speaker 2: But anyways, welcome to our podcast. Daniel and Jorge talk

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Speaker 2: about dinosaur astronomers. That's all we do.

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Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge digress in the very first moments of

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Speaker 1: the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. Now, welcome to our podcast. Daniel and

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Speaker 2: Jorge explained the universe the production of iHeartRadio, in which.

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Speaker 1: We talk about all the amazing and beautiful and crazy

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Speaker 1: things about the universe, the violent events, the incredible drama

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Speaker 1: happening in the inside of stars, the tiny little particles

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Speaker 1: that apparently make up everything you see and touch and taste.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all of the spacey stuff out there, happening in

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Speaker 2: the universe and even in our own backyards, or I

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Speaker 2: guess our solar system backyard.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because when you look out into the night sky,

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Speaker 1: you are not seeing a still picture. You are not

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Speaker 1: seeing a flat image. You are seeing a drama unfolding

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Speaker 1: on cosmic distance scales and time scales. If you were

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Speaker 1: to look at the night sky sped up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: You would see incredible events, huge explosions, massive collisions. It

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Speaker 1: would put Hollywood to shame.

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Speaker 2: It's like a cosmological telenovella, a lot of twist and turns.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody's really like backstabbing anybody, or.

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Speaker 2: Does the Earth have an evil twin on the other

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Speaker 2: side of the Sun Planet x dum extreme close up.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if there's so much political intrigue, but

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Speaker 1: there is definitely drama. There are things that happen rapidly

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, There are sudden changes of fate.

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Speaker 1: There are things that are happening, and so I think

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Speaker 1: it's fun to think about how our solar system will evolve.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because as we as humans find out about one

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Speaker 2: hundred years ago, the universe is not static. Things are changing.

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Speaker 2: The stars are moving, the galaxies are blazing across the universe,

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Speaker 2: and new stars are being born all the time.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and stars can change right there, formed from

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Speaker 1: the collapse of gases into a hot, dense object that confuse.

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Speaker 1: Eventually they turn into something else, like a black hole

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Speaker 1: or a white dwarf. They go through this evolution, and

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Speaker 1: so it's natural to also wonder, like, what about planets?

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Speaker 1: Do planets have future stages in their evolution? Are they

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Speaker 1: like Pokemon? They can evolve into different versions.

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Speaker 2: The same that Earth is only stage one.

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Speaker 1: I don't know enough about Pokemon to even really make

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Speaker 1: that joke. I just watch my kids play, so I

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Speaker 1: can say energy cards and pokemons evolve. Then we're at

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Speaker 1: the end of my knowledge.

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Speaker 2: I think our planet is Earth type.

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Speaker 1: Is it an EX or a GX? Does it have

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Speaker 1: the shiny glint on.

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Speaker 2: It it used to? I think it needs to go

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Speaker 2: a shiny flint too.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And we did a podcast recently in which

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Speaker 1: we talked about Jupiter and how close Jupiter was to

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Speaker 1: having become a star, and a bunch of listeners wrote

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Speaker 1: in asking us about that. Jim Sanchez, Doug Dodds, and

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Speaker 1: Ryan Kirkas all wrote and asked us, like, well, is

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Speaker 1: Jupiter on the verge of becoming a star? Could it

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Speaker 1: one day eventually become a star?

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Speaker 2: Because I guess it's kind of a fine line between

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Speaker 2: being a giant cloud of dust and being a giant

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Speaker 2: gas planet and maybe being a giant ball of flaming

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Speaker 2: gas like the Sun. It's kind of a fine line

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Speaker 2: it turns.

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Speaker 1: Out, how final line is it either on fire or

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Speaker 1: you're not. That seems pretty clear cut to me.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, what does it take, like a match

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Speaker 2: or you know, a spark. I guess that's the question

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Speaker 2: we'll be talking about today.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: So to the other program, we'll be asking the question

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Speaker 2: could Jupiter become a star? Is it too late for

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Speaker 2: Jupiter or can it still you know, find the right

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Speaker 2: role and suddenly be the new darling of Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: Hey, you know, jump onto TikTok and anybody can become

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Speaker 1: a star.

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Speaker 2: Oh, hey, that's what Jupiter needs.

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Speaker 1: That's right. But there was some actual serious talk about this.

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Speaker 1: A couple of decades ago. NASA sent a probe out

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Speaker 1: to study Jupiter, and they didn't want the probe to

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Speaker 1: infect any of Jupiter's moons where we think there might

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Speaker 1: potentially be life, right, microbia life. And we didn't want

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Speaker 1: to crash Galileo this probe onto any of Jupiter's moons

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Speaker 1: because we didn't want to bring any earth microbes. Right,

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Speaker 1: once you bring Earth's microbes, you can no longer ask like,

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Speaker 1: are there native microbes? And so instead they crashed the

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Speaker 1: probe into Jupiter itself.

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Speaker 2: Oh, because we don't care about infect.

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Speaker 1: For Jupiter, I think the idea was that it would

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Speaker 1: burn up and get crushed because Jupiter has this incredible

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Speaker 1: atmosphere so get immolated in descent, whereas the moons don't

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Speaker 1: have those atmospheres, and so it would actually land on

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Speaker 1: the surface and potentially survive.

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Speaker 2: But there was some concern about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, people were wondering, like, if Jupiter is on the

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Speaker 1: verge of becoming a star, if it's this huge ball

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Speaker 1: of gas and you drop a match into it, essentially,

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Speaker 1: is there a possibility that it could have ignited the

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Speaker 1: atmosphere or Jupiter and birth a new.

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Speaker 2: Star, Because I mean Jupiter, if you think about it,

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Speaker 2: it's a giant ball of hydrogen, right, kind of like

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Speaker 2: the Hindenberg.

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Speaker 1: Kind of like the Hindenburg, but much bigger.

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Speaker 2: That's what I mean. It's like a big balloon made

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Speaker 2: out of hydrogen and all you need is a little

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Speaker 2: flame and some oxygen.

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Speaker 1: All of a sudden, it sounds very unstable.

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Speaker 2: Right, does it sounds like a nineteen twenties idea?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And you know this actually appears in science fiction

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Speaker 1: as well, in the well known series two thousand and

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Speaker 1: one twenty ten, et cetera. They turn Jupiter into a star.

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Speaker 1: Oh on purpose, Yeah, on purpose, I guess. You know,

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Speaker 1: the aliens. We don't really ever understand their psychology, but

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Speaker 1: they turn it into a new star. They call it Lucifer.

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Speaker 2: Nice, the aliens call it Lucifer.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember the details that book. Who calls it Lucifer,

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Speaker 1: whether it's the aliens naming it or you know, earthbound

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Speaker 1: cartoonists who are elected to a naming committee who gave

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Speaker 1: it that name.

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Speaker 2: But I do remember the sequel to two thousand and one,

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Speaker 2: two thousand and ten. I think that at the end,

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Speaker 2: Jupiter does become a star sorry spoiler, becomes a star

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Speaker 2: at the end of that movie. And I always wondered, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's pretty interesting, But what does that mean? Is that

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Speaker 2: going to change our solar system or what's the big deal?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Exactly. So it's an interesting question. It's right here

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Speaker 1: in our backyard. It seems relevant. So we thought we

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Speaker 1: would try to figure out how close is Jupiter to

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Speaker 1: becoming a star? If you wanted to turn it into

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Speaker 1: a star, what would you have to do?

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Speaker 2: So, as usual, Daniel went out there into the wilds

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Speaker 2: of the internet and ask people to submit their answer

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Speaker 2: to the question could Jupiter become a star?

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Speaker 1: That's right, So thank you to everybody who participated, And

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Speaker 1: if you'd like to participate in future rounds of person

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Speaker 1: on the Internet interviews, please send us a note to

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Speaker 1: questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. We'd love for

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Speaker 1: you to answer our questions.

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Speaker 2: And before you listen to these answers, think about it

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Speaker 2: for a second. Do you think Jupiter could become a star.

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Speaker 2: Here's what be glad to say.

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Speaker 5: I think anyone who claims to know whether Jupiter can

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Speaker 5: turn into a start absolutely is probably exaggerating their knowledge

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Speaker 5: in order to make up for deficiencies.

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Speaker 6: I think Jupiter is like a failed star because it's

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Speaker 6: not massive enough to have the fusion reactions at the core.

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Speaker 6: The only way I can think of that it could

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Speaker 6: become a star would be if it pulled in enough matter.

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Speaker 7: Well it isn't for our reason, I suppose not enough mass.

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Speaker 7: I think you almost became a star. Well, well maybe

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Speaker 7: if are a lot of planets struck it.

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Speaker 5: I think the universe is very unlikely to happen, But

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Speaker 5: it happened, so perhaps it's just it does unlikely that

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Speaker 5: Jupiter would turn into a star.

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Speaker 8: But I suppose it could happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what kind of star. Jupiter is a gas giant

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Speaker 2: and it's made of gas, and stars are also made

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Speaker 2: of gas.

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Speaker 9: So I think maybe if a smallest star came into.

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Speaker 4: It, I suppose if it became big enough and had

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Speaker 4: enough gravity, it could turn on and become a star.

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Speaker 4: But I'm not aware that it's growing.

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Speaker 1: My short answer is, I don't think so.

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Speaker 8: Yes, I think that it's eight times more massive that

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Speaker 8: it would need to become in order for Jupiter to

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Speaker 8: start burning hydrogen and fusing it into helium. But even

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Speaker 8: if you were to combine all the planets in the

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Speaker 8: Solar System, you wouldn't get to the mass needed. So

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Speaker 8: by natural means, no, it's not possible. But theoretically could

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Speaker 8: Jupiter become a star then yes, you just need to

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Speaker 8: add eat more jupiters to it.

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Speaker 2: If Jupiter's ap does extremely well, I think Jupiter might

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Speaker 2: be able to become a star.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 10: I believe that the gas giants have cleaned up our

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Speaker 10: Solar system enough that it is unlikely that Jupiter would

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Speaker 10: be able to get enough mass to turn into a star. Well, theoretically, possible,

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Speaker 10: it's unlikely. I think the way that it might happen

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Speaker 10: is maybe if there are a rogue planet that collided

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Speaker 10: with Jupiter or sufficient other material like comets and asteroids

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Speaker 10: and so on. But that seems implossible.

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Speaker 2: All right. Some great answers I like the one that

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Speaker 2: said yes, I mean, no, wait, what's the star?

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Speaker 1: If you're not going to be accurate, you should at

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Speaker 1: least be well.

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Speaker 2: I guess that perfectly reflects I feel. I'm like, yes, no, wait,

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Speaker 2: let's the finest star.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it is an interesting question because you know,

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Speaker 1: different stuff out there have evolutions, you know, we see

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Speaker 1: stuff changing in the universe, and we haven't ever talked

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Speaker 1: about the question of like is a planet stable? Could

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Speaker 1: a planet just hang out forever or does it have

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Speaker 1: a next natural stage in its evolution?

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Speaker 10: Mmmm?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Is this possible that we suddenly have two stars

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Speaker 2: in our sky? You know, kind of like star wars?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah? And what would that mean for when you

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Speaker 1: have to go to work?

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Speaker 2: It would probably make our days longer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it would make our days longer and much more irregular. Right,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't have regular patterns you have times when both

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Speaker 1: stars were in the sky and times when only one

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Speaker 1: of them was in the sky. Have you ever read

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Speaker 1: the three body problem? You know that the calendar on

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Speaker 1: that planet is very complicated.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's jump into it, Daniel. What makes something

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Speaker 2: a star versus a planet? I guess let's start with

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Speaker 2: that question. What happens at that fourth in the road

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Speaker 2: for a big ball of gas where it it turns

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Speaker 2: into a Jupiter, or it turns into a star, and

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Speaker 2: or can it can it switch over?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So really it's all about matt Like, if you

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Speaker 1: are a big enough blob of stuff, then gravity will

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Speaker 1: pull you in and compress you hard enough that you

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Speaker 1: will start to fuse. You'll create the conditions necessary to

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Speaker 1: squish these particles together so that they fuse, which releases

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Speaker 1: a huge amount of energy. And that's really the distinction

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Speaker 1: between a planet and a star. A star is fusing,

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Speaker 1: it's releasing energy, it's burning itself, and a planet is

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Speaker 1: much more inert than no fusion happening at the center

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Speaker 1: of the Earth or at the center of Jupiter, for example.

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Speaker 2: And that's just because we don't have enough stuff. Like

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Speaker 2: if we had more stuff, it would be heavier and

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Speaker 2: things would get more compressive. You sort of get to

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Speaker 2: that pressure where fusion happens.

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Speaker 1: That's right. It's all about the stuff, and it depends

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Speaker 1: on which kind of stuff. Like if you're just hydrogen,

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Speaker 1: just gas, then you need less stuff than if you

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Speaker 1: are like a huge ball of oxygen or carbon, because

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Speaker 1: the heavier elements take higher pressure or higher temperature conditions

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Speaker 1: in order to fuse. So hydrogen is the easiest. So

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Speaker 1: if you're going to go all hydrogen, you need a

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Speaker 1: big ball of gas. If you're gonna go all carbon

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Speaker 1: or all oxygen or something heavier, you need a bigger bone.

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Speaker 1: But in principle, if you took the Earth and made

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Speaker 1: it much more massive, same stuff, same mixture of stuff,

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Speaker 1: it would turn into a star.

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Speaker 2: Wow, how much more stuff? I guess? I guess The

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Speaker 2: question is what does it take to be a star?

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Speaker 2: How much stuff do you need?

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Speaker 1: We can think about it in terms of like pounds

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Speaker 1: or kilograms or squirrels, but those units are hard to

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Speaker 1: grasp because the numbers are so big.

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Speaker 2: Let's just talk about it in terms of stuff.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about it in terms of units of

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Speaker 1: like one son. So the minimum amount of stuff you

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Speaker 1: need to reach any sort of fusion is about one

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Speaker 1: to one hundredth of the mass of the Sun, of

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Speaker 1: our sun, of our sun. Yeah, we're using our sun

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Speaker 1: here as a unit.

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Speaker 2: You could have something one hundredth of our Sun and

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Speaker 2: it could be a star.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And that's only like really special. That's the

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Speaker 1: absolute minimum. It gets you above the shelf for the lowest, weakest,

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Speaker 1: lamest kind of fusion. And if you reach that threshold,

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Speaker 1: you're called a brown dwarf. And it's a special kind

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Speaker 1: of fusion. It's not just hydrogen fusion. It's deuterium fusion.

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Speaker 1: And deuterium, if you remember, is an isotope of hydrogen,

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Speaker 1: and the nucleus you have a proton and a neutron,

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Speaker 1: not just a proton, and that neutron is crucial because

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Speaker 1: it helps sort of bring those protons together and stick

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Speaker 1: them together.

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Speaker 2: I see that sounds small, like one hundreds the size

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Speaker 2: of the Sun, but that's it like what like ten

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Speaker 2: thousand earth.

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Speaker 1: That's yes, something like ten thousand earths. It's a lot

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Speaker 1: bigger than the Earth, and so it's not that small, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's small compared to our Sun, but it's

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Speaker 1: a big object. And they're called brown dwarfs, but they're

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Speaker 1: pretty badly named because they're not actually brown.

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Speaker 2: They're not hydrolely dwarves if they're ten thousand earths. Also,

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Speaker 2: so two strikes there for the physics community.

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Speaker 1: In one name, they're dwarfs compared to the other stars.

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Speaker 1: But they don't look at all brown. Okay, they look

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Speaker 1: magenta or like orange red, and that's just because the

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Speaker 1: kind of fusion that happens and the kind of light

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Speaker 1: that they emit icee.

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Speaker 2: But there are still sort of big balls of fiery stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're just don't glow brightly and they're kind of tinged

349
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Speaker 2: in a certain color.

350
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Speaker 1: And these things exist, and they're not that rare in

351
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Speaker 1: the universe. There's one like six and a half light

352
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,280
Speaker 1: years away from us. It's called Luman sixteen. And so

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Speaker 1: they're not that easy to see because they're not that bright.

354
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Speaker 1: But you know, theoretically we understand that they should exist

355
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Speaker 1: and we see them out there, and so this is

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Speaker 1: totally a possibility. It's the minimum threshold to become a star.

357
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,320
Speaker 2: And then those are the smallest stars. So then what's

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Speaker 2: the next step up?

359
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,680
Speaker 1: Next step up is you know, really you might call

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00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,719
Speaker 1: the first kind of real star, and this is a

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Speaker 1: red dwarf. A brown dwarf, people argue, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: is it a big, hot burning planet. Is a star

363
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,640
Speaker 1: that's a you know, kind of lame But a red

364
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,199
Speaker 1: dwarf nobody argues about, like, it's definitely a star. It

365
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,199
Speaker 1: burns hydrogen. Like essentially, this is the minimum star you

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Speaker 1: need if you just star from hydrogen. If you have

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Speaker 1: one tenth the mass of the Sun and a huge

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00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,399
Speaker 1: ball of hydrogen gas, gravity will pull it together and

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Speaker 1: squeeze it hard enough for it to fuse fuse.

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Speaker 2: But in a brown star, there's no few.

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Speaker 1: There is fusion, but it's deuterium fusion. It's not hydrogen fusion.

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Speaker 1: A brown star is not hot enough to fuse hydrogen.

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Speaker 1: You need that extra neutron in the nucleus to make

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Speaker 1: the fusion happen, and so the fusion doesn't release as

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Speaker 1: much energy either.

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Speaker 2: Oh I see.

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Speaker 1: So it's sort of like a cooler, weaker, lamer kind

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Speaker 1: of fusion, but.

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Speaker 2: It's still fusion. It's just kind of an easier fusion.

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Speaker 1: It's easier and it's not as dramatic. It doesn't produce

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Speaker 1: as much energy. So that's why the brown dwarfs aren't

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Speaker 1: so luminous.

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Speaker 6: Icy.

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Speaker 2: All right, So then when you get to one tenth

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Speaker 2: of the mass of the Sun, then you get the

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Speaker 2: real cooking going.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's a legit star. It's a red dwarf.

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Speaker 1: And you know there's one that's only six hundred light

389
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Speaker 1: years away. It has a name that's all like letters

390
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,919
Speaker 1: and acronyms, so it's totally unpronounceable. But the cool thing

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Speaker 1: about it is that it's really dense, like it has

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Speaker 1: one tenth the mass of the Sun, but it's radius

393
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Speaker 1: it's the same as Saturn.

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Speaker 2: Wow, so it's tiny.

395
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:55,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's it's compact. It's a little dwarf. It's

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Speaker 1: a little red dwarf. It's perfectly named.

397
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Speaker 2: And is it red? Is it red?

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Speaker 1: So there you go, two check marks for the astronomy community.

399
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Speaker 2: You're up to zero. Then zero zero zero physicists, this

400
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:12,520
Speaker 2: is zero public.

401
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,120
Speaker 1: But you know, something the size of a planet can

402
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,879
Speaker 1: definitely be a star. That's not an issue. It's not

403
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 1: just about size, it's about mass. I remember, gravity will

404
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 1: gather this stuff together and make it really dense for density.

405
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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, well it's clear that things about the

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Speaker 2: size of planets can become stars. And so now let's

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Speaker 2: talk about Jupiter and whether Jupiter could or could have

408
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Speaker 2: become a star. But first let's take a quick break.

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Speaker 2: All right, Daniel, we're talking about making a star in

459
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 2: our own backyard. So what do we need to grill?

460
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 2: Some matches?

461
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: A lot of flour which is on short supply.

462
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 2: Oh no, better order a create of it. All right,

463
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 2: So let's we're talking about whether Jupiter could be one

464
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: day become a star, which is a crazy idea, but

465
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 2: you're telling me that it's all about the stuff. You

466
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: have enough stuff and you're compress it enough, then almost

467
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: anything can become a star. Yeah, And so let's talk

468
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: about Jupiter. How massive is Jupiter?

469
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: Jupiter has about one tenth of one percent of the

470
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: mass of the Sun, so one one thousandth of the Sun.

471
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 2: Okay, So it's it's ten times too small to be

472
00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: a brown dwarf.

473
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, the threshold is one hundredth of the Sun for

474
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: a brown dwarf, one tenth of the Sun for a

475
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: red dwarf. And so Jupiter it's ten times too small

476
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 1: to be a brown dwarf and one hundred times too

477
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 1: small to be a red dwarf.

478
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 2: Okay.

479
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: And it's made out of roughly the right stuff. It's

480
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: mostly hydrogen. It's just not a big enough.

481
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 2: Spoonful, I see. And you need that stuff because I mean,

482
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 2: while you like, the Earth could become a star if

483
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 2: you compress it down enough, but there's nothing really compressing

484
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 2: the Earth that much except for its gravity, and so

485
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 2: without that stuff to create the gravity, you can't turn

486
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 2: into a star.

487
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Earth is like one three hundred thousands the

488
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: size of the Sun, and so we're nowhere near massive

489
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: enough to ever become a star. Jupiter is like it's

490
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: in within shouting distance, you know, like ten times too

491
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 1: small to be a pathetic little brown dwarf is like

492
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: it's you know, ten times is not a small thing

493
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 1: to overcome.

494
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: But it's still ten times too small. Like that doesn't

495
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: seem likely to happen anytime soon.

496
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: No, And Jupiter has already really big, right, So essentially,

497
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: in order for Jupiter to become a star, you have

498
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: to multiply its mass by a factor of ten. That

499
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 1: means like, gather nine more jubiters somewhere somehow and add

500
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: it to Jupiter.

501
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 2: All right, Well, it doesn't sound very likely then that

502
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 2: Jupiter is going to turn into star. Why was NASA

503
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: worried about it twenty thirty years ago?

504
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: You know, I think they just thought that crashing a

505
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 1: probe into it could spark a reaction. You know, the

506
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: process we're talking about a sort of a natural gathering

507
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: due to gravity. You know, the Hindenburg went into flames

508
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 1: without being the mass of the Sun, and so people

509
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 1: were just worried that adding a spark to a ball

510
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: of gas could potentially ignite it. But I think that

511
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: was a small community of paranoid voices inside NASA, and

512
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: most people weren't too worried. But you know, if you

513
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: know the story, we were worried about igniting the atmosphere

514
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: when we tested the first atomic bomb in New Mexico.

515
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: Oh really, Yeah, that was a possible concern.

516
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, before they tested it, they did the calculations and

517
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: they couldn't rule out igniting the atmosphere. But you know,

518
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 1: they went ahead and tried it.

519
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: Anyway, what's the worst that can happen?

520
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: So it's not just particle physicists that are potentially ending

521
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: the world.

522
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 2: Okay, oh good, it's other kinds of physicists.

523
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: That's right, and even ending potentially other worlds. Yeah. So

524
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: if you wanted to turn Jupiter into a star, you'd

525
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: have to somehow gather these materials.

526
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about that. If you're an alien in

527
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 2: the Arthur's cy Clark novel, how would you do it?

528
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: Well, you know, where can you get these materials? Like,

529
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: what is the source of raw materials you'd need to

530
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: turn Jupiter into a star. There's really the biggest things

531
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: in the Solar System are the Sun in Jupiter and

532
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: after that everything else is a tiny detail. So the

533
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: only place to get this stuff is from the Sun.

534
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: So you have to basically steal from the Sun, siphon

535
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: off a huge amount of matter, and you know, feed

536
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: that into Jupiter somehow.

537
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 2: Really, there's not enough gas floating around or asteroids floating

538
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 2: around to kind of feed Jupiter.

539
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: There's only a tiny little bit of gas and asteroids.

540
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: Most of the stuff is coalesced into the Sun and

541
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 1: into Jupiter. And you know, even Jus like a tiny fracture.

542
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: Remember it's one to one thousands of the mass of

543
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: the Sun. So if you like made a bar chart

544
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: of all the stuff in the Solar system, it would

545
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: basically just be the Sun and then you know a

546
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: few crumbs. So Jupiter is just like the biggest crumb,

547
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: and after that there's basically nothing of note.

548
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 2: All right, So you would need Jupiter to be ten

549
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: times bigger, and so maybe let's talk about how that

550
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 2: would look like, Like, let's say we increase the mass

551
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 2: of Jupiter by two how would it look different.

552
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: It wouldn't have enough energy to fuse, right, and so

553
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: it just look like a bigger Jupiter. It just you know,

554
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: be bigger and fatter, and it would have just as

555
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: many crazy storms, but it'd be really no fundamental change.

556
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: It might emit more radiation because it would have more

557
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: activity in the interior, do the increased pressure.

558
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: Like the surface would look sort of the same, would

559
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: just be bigger.

560
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 1: It would just be bigger. Yeah, and the surface would

561
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: look sort of the same. But we don't really understand

562
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: Jupiter's like cloud patterns and what's going on there, the

563
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: crazy vortices, the red spot. That's the kind of thing

564
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: we don't understand. And if we increase Jupiter's mass, then

565
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: all the features that contribute to that craziness would be doubled,

566
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: and so we'd probably get it, as you know, twice

567
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: as many bands and much more craziness, and maybe the

568
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,239
Speaker 1: red spot would be even more insane. Right, But there

569
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,719
Speaker 1: are lots of questions about these gas giants. Remember Saturn

570
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: has a hexagon on this north pole that we don't

571
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: understand either. Right.

572
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 2: We did a whole podcast about that mystery.

573
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: It'd be a fascinating experiment to do to double the

574
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: mass of Jupiter and just see what happens, Like, hey,

575
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: turn that knob and see how crazy these planets get.

576
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it, Daniel.

577
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll ride a proposal.

578
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: What's the worst that can happen? Well, what would be

579
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 2: happening on the inside, Like I know that the inside

580
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 2: of Jupiter there's like what is it frozen hydrogen or something?

581
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: Metallic hydrogen.

582
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 1: This metallic hydrogen. Yeah, the oceans of liquid hydrogen is

583
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: all these layers of more and more compressed hydrogen, And

584
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: as you add more stuff to it, then those layers

585
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: get denser and denser, right until at the very core

586
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: that's where the fusion would begin. When you get enough mass,

587
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: you sort of like gradually approach it and you get

588
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: these layers and layers of more intensely squeezed hydrogen.

589
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: Okay, So then as I increase demand, Let's say I'm

590
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 2: pouring more hydrogen into Jupiter. Now we're at like four

591
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: times the size of Jupiter right now or the mass?

592
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: Do things still change? Like, you know, does it suddenly

593
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 2: become more solid at the core or does it become

594
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 2: like a this kind of nebulous ball of gas or

595
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: does it Would it look the same just bigger.

596
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: It would look the same, just bigger. I don't know

597
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: that you would see much different from the outside. Like again,

598
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: we don't understand the patterns on the surface, so it's

599
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: hard to predict what those would look like. But on

600
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: the inside, you be getting new layers. You'd beginning the

601
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: core would be denser. Right as you add more mass,

602
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: you're creating new layers in the core that are denser

603
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: and hotter, and eventually you're going to make the one

604
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: that's going to fuse.

605
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: Oh, I wonder if it would grow another eye. Wouldn't

606
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: that be cool?

607
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: That would be totally awesome. In fact, we'd wonder if

608
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: that happened, if it was typical or unusual. So really,

609
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: we should replicate this project. We should make like ten

610
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, double jupiters or ten quad jupiters, just to

611
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: see if it's a systematic or not.

612
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: Wow.

613
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: I mean, while we're scooping matter out of the sun

614
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: and playing god, let's be systematic about it.

615
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: It's that fun with it, all right. So now let's

616
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 2: say I keep going and I'm now I've pumped up

617
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: Jupiter up to one one hundredth the size of the

618
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 2: mass of the Sun, where it could become a brown dwarf.

619
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: I guess would it just automatically turn into a brown

620
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: dwarf or does it need like some kind of event

621
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: to trigger it, or does it happen slowly?

622
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: Jupiter wouldn't actually turn into a brown dwarf if you

623
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: got it to one one hundred the mass of the Sun,

624
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: because that's a special kind of process. It needs deuterium.

625
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: And if we're just adding hydrogen, remember which just protons

626
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: and electrons, that needs to get to one tenth the

627
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: mass of the sun. Deutyrium is a special thing, and

628
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: you need a proton and a neutron and the electron

629
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: around it, and the neutron helps that fusion happen. You

630
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: might think like, well, that's weird. Hows a neutron help

631
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: fusion happen? It's neutral anyway, right. Remember, neutrons are these

632
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: bound objects of quarks that have the strong force. The

633
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: neutron is what helps hold things together, like in heavier elements.

634
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: The neutron is the reason why the element is stable.

635
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: It keeps the proton separated, and the little residual strong

636
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: force from the quarks helps tie everything together. So the

637
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: neutrons are like the little helper assistant particles making the

638
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: fusion happen. So brown dwarfs use this special channel only

639
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: available when you have deterium. I see, so Jupiter isn't

640
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: mostly deterium, it's mostly hydrogen.

641
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 2: Oh man, all right, So I did all this work.

642
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: I inflated Jupiter to ten times in size, and apparently

643
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 2: nothing happens.

644
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So let's keep going.

645
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: I just keep pressing the accelerator and see what happens

646
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 2: to Jupiter. But first, let's take a quick break.

647
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

648
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of greeky yogurt, you're probably

649
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite.

650
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

651
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

652
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

653
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

654
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

655
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

656
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

657
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy

658
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

659
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697
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 2: All right, Daniel, If I pump up Jupiter to one

698
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: one hundreds of the size of the Sun, or the

699
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: mass of the Sun, nothing would happen. I would need

700
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: to get to one tenth of the mass of the

701
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: Sun in order for Jupiter to be star.

702
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: That's right, Make a blob of gas that's one tenth

703
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: the mass of the Sun. Then gravity will coalesce it

704
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: and it will start to fuse, and it will start

705
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: to glow and it will be a new star and

706
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: you can name it whatever you like.

707
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 2: Well, now I feel all this pressure to come up

708
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: with the grid name. But basically you need one hundred jupiters.

709
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: You need Jebert to be one hundred times bigger or

710
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,959
Speaker 2: more massive in order for it to ever become a star.

711
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 2: And even then it would be a red dwarf, which

712
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: is not like the shiniest, prettiest kind of star.

713
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: That's right, It'd be much smaller than our star and

714
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: not as bright.

715
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: And would it ignite right away or is this like

716
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 2: a slow burned where it slowly turns into a red dwarf?

717
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: Well, it depends on how dense it is when you start,

718
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 1: Like if you just start from a big diffuse cloud

719
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: of gas, the way our Solar system started, then it's

720
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: going to take a long time for gravity to pull

721
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: that together. If you start from a place where it's

722
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: already pretty dense, like about as dense as Jupiter, then

723
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 1: it's not going to take gravity that long because everything

724
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: is already pretty close together. But it will start to

725
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: burn from the in side, right, and then that we'll

726
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: have to heat it the next layers and the next

727
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: layers and the next layers. And so this isn't the

728
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: kind of thing that's going to happen, you know, in

729
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: five seconds, but it's also not going to take a

730
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: million years.

731
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 2: Oh I see, it's kind of started the inside and

732
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: then it's the heat the explosion of that. It's going

733
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 2: to gradually make it to the surface and then that's

734
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 2: when you'll see a glow.

735
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's star exactly. And it's just like any other

736
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: kind of fire, you know, the energy put out by

737
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: it sustains it keeps that temperature hot, keeps those fusion

738
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: processes going.

739
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: M all right, well it sounds like we're not likely

740
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 2: to get one hundred jupiters all in the same spot suddenly.

741
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: Although it's kind of cool to think about, and so

742
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 2: maybe step us through what is the future of Jupiter.

743
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: What's going to happen to it? It's not going to

744
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 2: become a star, but what is it going to become?

745
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, even if Jupiter did become a star,

746
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: like if it turned on, I just want to mention

747
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: that it's not going to be as bright as our sun,

748
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: and it's much further from us. A right, Jupiter is

749
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: much further from us than the Sun is, so even

750
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: if it became a star, it wouldn't be nearly as

751
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,919
Speaker 1: bright in our sky as the Sun. It wouldn't even

752
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: be as bright in the sky as the Moon is. Actually,

753
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: one of our sharp listeners did this calculation, Dimitri Rudoi,

754
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: found that a red dwarf would be a bit brighter

755
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: than the Moon in our sky. Thanks for keeping us honest, Dmitri.

756
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: So it would just be like a fairly bright star

757
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: in the sky.

758
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, even as is without inflating it Jupiter.

759
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 2: If suddenly Jupiter ignited became a star, which we said

760
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 2: it couldn't happen.

761
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: But even if you turn Jupiter into a red dwarf,

762
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: if you made it one hundred times as big and

763
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: it ignited and it was a red dwarf, it wouldn't

764
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 1: be as bright as our sun. And it's much further

765
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: away from us, so it would appear dimmer in our sky,

766
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: so it wouldn't be very bright.

767
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: Oh, the distance from us to the Sun is much

768
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: closer than us to Jupiter.

769
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, Jupiter is six times as far away from

770
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: the Sun as we are, which means that at its

771
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: closest approach, it's like four times as far away from

772
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: Earth as the Sun is. And so that makes it

773
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: one sixteenth is bright if it was the same brightness

774
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: as the Sun, but it's going to be, you know,

775
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: much smaller than the Sun at the minimum threshold, and

776
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: so maybe just not that bright in the sky compared

777
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: to the Sun or even the Moon.

778
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 2: So pretty much nothing would change if Jupiter suddenly became

779
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 2: a star.

780
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wouldn't really change at all. I mean, it

781
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 1: wouldn't be as bright as elon Musk's Starlink satellites.

782
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 2: Even we wouldn't get that dramatic two suns floating in

783
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: the sky Luke Skywalker looking out into the sundown of

784
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 2: two stars. It would just be like a bright star

785
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 2: in the sky.

786
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so for that to happen, to have like

787
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: two effective suns in your sky, you really need a

788
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: second star that's as big, as bright and as close.

789
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 2: That's really critical, and that that would probably be kind

790
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: of a mess, wouldn't it. Like if you had two

791
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: suns that close together to each other and to you,

792
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be a happy, happy solar system.

793
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if so, how created that sun and then

794
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: inserted into our existing solar system. There's no way that

795
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: any of our orbits would be stable, right, It would

796
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: like completely gravitationally perturb all the orbits. Like say, for example,

797
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: a huge sun came and ate Jupiter, like some sun

798
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: from another solar system happened to intersect our solar system

799
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: and just gobbled up Jupiter, and then we call that

800
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: the new Jupiter for some reason, that would totally destroy

801
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: our solar system. Like Earth would get flung out into

802
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: interstellar space. There's almost no chance that all the planets

803
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: would then like suddenly fall into a new stable set

804
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: of orbits around this pair of suns.

805
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: Like that's very totally disrupt our orbits and probably tosses

806
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 2: out into space.

807
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we'd become a rogue planet. We'd ended with

808
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: no stars.

809
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 2: All right, Well, so then what is more likely to

810
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: happen to Jupiter. What is Jupiter's most likely ist future?

811
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: Jupiter's future is actually not that exciting. I mean, planets

812
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: are pretty stable. They're just hunks of stuff that are

813
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: mostly inert. I mean, the stuff going on in the

814
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: center of the Earth but it's not burnt itself, it's

815
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: not consuming itself. So like stars have a lifespan because

816
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 1: they're burning their fuel and eventually they can't manage that

817
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: anymore and they collapse. Right the fire from the fusion

818
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 1: is sustaining them. But we're not really burning anything here

819
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: on Earth, and Jupiter isn't burning anything. It's just a

820
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,399
Speaker 1: lump of stuff in space. And they can do that

821
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: basically forever lump of gas. Yeah.

822
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, like if you just have a blob of gas,

823
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 2: it can just be a blob of gas forever.

824
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And you know, the Earth has an uncertain

825
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: future because we're so close to the Sun that when

826
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: the Sun evolves and becomes a red giant, it's going

827
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 1: to become much much larger. In the end stages of

828
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,479
Speaker 1: its life, it's going to grow and eventually the Earth

829
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: will be inside the Sun. Like the Sun will grow

830
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: so large that where we are currently will be inside

831
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: the radius of the Sun.

832
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 2: But for Jupiter.

833
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: But Jupiter it's much further away.

834
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: It's got a good spot, so they're not going to

835
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: be consumed by the Sun or maybe even affected by it.

836
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, when the Sun goes red giant and absorbs the Earth.

837
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 1: Jupiter will be fine out there. I mean, the radiation

838
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: from the Sun will increase. The heat from the Sun

839
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: will increase, and so that will increase the amount of

840
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: solar radiation that lands on Jupiter. So it might get

841
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: more violent storms on its surface. It might effect that

842
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: red spot, might heat it up a little bit, but

843
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: it's not going to be a big change for Jupiter.

844
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 1: So Jupiter is in a pretty good spot. It's happy

845
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 1: to sit there forever and not really do anything.

846
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: Sounds like we're going to have to move to Jupiter

847
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: in a few billion years.

848
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend it. Jupiter is not that great a

849
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: place to land, as the Galileo probe discovered.

850
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: But maybe one of the moons of Jupiter, right, they're

851
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,959
Speaker 2: saying we could potentially live in one of them. There's

852
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: water maybe in some of them.

853
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's lots of moons of Jupiter that we think

854
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: might already have life. We did some fun podcast episodes

855
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: about what's happening in the potential underground oceans on some

856
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: of those frozen moons. Some of them have like a

857
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: thick layer of ice with water underneath, and so that

858
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: could be a nice place to live absolutely.

859
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a big ball of ice and water out

860
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 2: there just waiting for us.

861
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, assuming the aliens don't come and turn Jupiter into

862
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: a star.

863
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 2: But they can't. They would have to grow it by

864
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 2: one hundred.

865
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: They would have to grow it by one hundred, yeah, exactly,

866
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 1: So they have to steal all that mass from our Sun.

867
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: So I don't know what the aliens were thinking in

868
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: twenty ten.

869
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 2: Well, I wonder if the future Jupiter juvial and astronomers

870
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 2: are then going to be laughing at our astronomers, just

871
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 2: like we were just laughing at the dinosaur astronomers saying, man,

872
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: they should have seen the Sun. They should have known

873
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 2: that the Sun was going to turn through red giant

874
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: and gone out of the way.

875
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's going to be in like a billion years,

876
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: And so I hope that we're still doing astronomy in

877
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: a billion years, and then we have those kind of

878
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: things to think about and to worry about. But I

879
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: also hope that in a billion years we've gotten off

880
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: the planet and we have our Jovian moon colonies and

881
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: astronomy happening in the outer reaches of the Solar System,

882
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: and maybe even develop warp drives to go do other

883
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: solar systems. Hey, I guess that's one way you could

884
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: do it. You could build a wormhole that connects Jupiter

885
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: in the Sun to sort of shunt material from the

886
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: Sun directly into Jupiter.

887
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: There you go. Oh no, now, now we sparked the

888
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: imagination of a physicist. What's the worst that can happen

889
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 2: if we create a wormhole recognized Jupiter and the Sun?

890
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Well, Fortunately I don't know any engineers willing

891
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: to actually build this thing for me, so I'm free

892
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: to speculate wildly.

893
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 2: Oh good, Yeah, yeah, well we'll all make a pack.

894
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 2: All of us engineers will make a pack. Not to

895
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 2: help any physicists do any kind of crazy stuff.

896
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: Don't answer emails from Daniel, even if it seemed like

897
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: a good idea.

898
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, even if he has money, don't hit reply. All right, Well,

899
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: it sounds like a lot of the people who maybe

900
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: were worried that Jupiter was going to turn into a

901
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: star it can rest easy because it doesn't sound like

902
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 2: Jupiter is going to be a star anytime soon, or

903
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 2: can even become a star anytime soon, or maybe ever.

904
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: That's right, even though Jupiter totally dwarfs us. It's really

905
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: small compared to the thresholds necessary to become even the dimmest,

906
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: lamest kind of star. And it's much much smaller than

907
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: those cosmic giants that are out there fusing and illuminating

908
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: the cosmos. And so while there is a lot of

909
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: drama out there in the universe, stars collapsing and forming

910
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: and all sorts of crazy things happening, it seems like

911
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: Jupiter it's pretty solid.

912
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 2: So rest easy and relaxed, because Jupiter is just gonna

913
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 2: keep on floating out there, keeping its big red eye

914
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 2: on us.

915
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: That's right, and we recommend you invest in Jovian moon

916
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 1: real estate.

917
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 2: Can you is that? Listen on redfin.

918
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: Send me a check and I will send you a

919
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: title to your new property.

920
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 2: It sounds like you could get arrested for that, Daniel,

921
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: but all right, well, we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks

922
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: for joining us.

923
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: And thanks for sending in your questions. If you'd like

924
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: a question answered on the podcast, please send it to

925
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: us to questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com.

926
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: See you next time.

927
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Remember that Daniel and Jorge explain the

928
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 1: universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

929
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

930
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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. When you pop a piece of

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Speaker 3: the number one science podcast in America. I mean neuroscientists

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Speaker 3: at Stanford and I've spent my career exploring the three

943
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Speaker 3: pound universe in our heads.

944
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Speaker 4: Join me weekly to explore the relationship.

945
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Speaker 3: Between your brain and your life. Because the more we

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Speaker 3: can steer our lives. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David

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