1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here, 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent. 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible. 7 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means 8 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that, 9 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 2: let's get to the show. 10 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: It has been ten years since the city of Flint, Michigan, 11 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: was poisoned with lead, and there is one journalist I 12 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: know who never gave up on the story, never left 13 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: the story, and has continued to break explosive news about 14 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: what was an unbelievable criminal cover up and conspiracy that 15 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: did poison an entire American town. That would be Jordan 16 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: Cheriton of Status Kup. And he has a new documentary 17 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: coming out that tells the entire story in a way 18 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: that I think has never been told before. 19 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 4: What matters right now is this that that Flint River 20 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 4: right there is still right there, okay, And those people 21 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 4: that are victims of what was played on them are 22 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 4: still victims. The seven thousand babies are still brain dammage. 23 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 4: You fucked up the fact that the matter is. Now, 24 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 4: what do you do about it? Now? You left a 25 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 4: lot of people dead and laying in the street, and 26 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 4: you still got people dead and laying in the streets. 27 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 4: Excuse my friendship. 28 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 5: They told us we were disposable. 29 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 6: That's what they told us, is that we are disposable people. 30 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 7: Do you think this will ever be fixed? 31 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 4: No? 32 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 8: And you know I don't. 33 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 7: I'm never gonna see my baby again, and they're never 34 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 7: gonna see their loved ones again. 35 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 6: I don't know how to. 36 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 7: Deal with that. These aren't all elderly people. We're talking 37 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 7: people in there, oh, forties, fifty. 38 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 9: About eight years old? Oh wow, I'm talking about I 39 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 9: know a young girl have breast casting, eight years. 40 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 3: Old, my grandson. 41 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 5: He was no longer an AB student, but a d 42 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 5: e F student. 43 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 10: Year ten of the water crisis and my eighth year 44 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 10: of covering this. I first went to Flint in twenty sixteen, And. 45 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 11: I guess we should start from the beginning. 46 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 12: What is happening here in Genesee County? And is this 47 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 12: cancer crisis connected to the water switch? 48 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 7: Newly released data. 49 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 12: From the Health Department reveals cancer rates here significantly higher 50 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 12: than anywhere else in the state of Michigan. 51 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 11: Is the ten year anniversary of the Flint water crisis, 52 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 11: and it's not something from the past. 53 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: Jordan's always great to see you, Hey, thank you for 54 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: having me. Yeah, of course, So just talk to us 55 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: a little bit about what's new in this documentary and 56 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: why you felt it was so important to stay on 57 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: the story. 58 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 59 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 11: I think in today's news cycle, where it's hard to 60 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 11: remember what happened yesterday, it is incredibly hard, since the 61 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 11: media stopped covering Flint long ago, to remember what Flint 62 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 11: is about and also realize that it's actively still a crisis, 63 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 11: not something from the past. 64 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 7: So I've reported there. 65 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 11: Twenty times since twenty six and each time I go back, 66 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 11: it's truly shocking and really horrifying that it's still actively 67 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 11: a crisis. You know, we've become numb to that word, 68 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 11: but it's still a crisis. And in this documentary you'll 69 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 11: see cancers through the roof in Flint, and it's not 70 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 11: from the weather, it's from the water. Teens are sadly 71 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 11: now committing suicide. They were children when they were poisoned. 72 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 11: There is serious, serious mental health problems, education problems, in Flint. 73 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 11: You'll learn that a lot of the money that Congress 74 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 11: and elsewhere earmarked for Flint mysteriously did not go to 75 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 11: Flint and water relief. So it's kind of a mix 76 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 11: of showing the active crisis, yes, the water is still toxic, 77 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 11: and the domino effect with the cancers, the teen suicides, 78 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 11: and really a city that is actively in crisis. 79 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: Tell us of what residents that you spoke with want 80 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: people to know about what has been done to them. 81 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 11: For the most part, residents desperately want people to know 82 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 11: that they are still actively in crisis. 83 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 7: Residents I speak with. 84 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 11: Still ten years later get rashes from the water. Residents 85 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 11: I speak to still their eyes burn when they shower, 86 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 11: still in many cases getting smelly or discolored water. On 87 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 11: the other side, residents are nearly going bankrupt paying for 88 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 11: medical bills because they did not get universal health care 89 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 11: like some other cities with similar issues had Libby, Montana, 90 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 11: for example, with an asbestos disaster. 91 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 7: They're predominantly white. 92 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 11: They got Medicare for All for their crisis rightfully, so 93 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 11: Flint did not. Residents desperately want the media to pay attention. 94 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 11: You know, I know we're in a twenty four to seven, 95 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 11: never ending Trump and Russia and now you know understandably 96 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 11: Israel Gaza. But they even get their local media to 97 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 11: continue covering their issues with the water, much less national media. 98 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 11: So I think between the water, the medical problems, the children, 99 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 11: the Lost generation, children who are having serious learning problems, 100 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 11: reading problems, learning disabilities, autism on. 101 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 7: The rise, and also crime is on the rise. 102 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 11: We know that heavy metal poisoning, lead poisoning, there's research 103 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 11: to shows that could lead to higher crime. And there 104 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 11: is no kind of understanding or sympathy being shown to 105 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 11: flint teenagers or young adults that are committing crimes, not 106 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 11: to defend those crimes, but you know a lot of 107 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 11: that is because their brain was damaged and they have 108 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 11: volatile mood swings. 109 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there is no cure, There is no recovery, 110 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: There is no moving on from lead poisoning. Talk to 111 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: us about the process of accountability of any of the 112 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: politicians who were involved. Have they been held accountable to 113 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: any extent? 114 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 11: You know, it's funny all we hear about cover a 115 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 11: lot is all this hubbabaloo about saving democracy. 116 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 7: Well, how's this for democracy? A US city. 117 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 11: Of one hundred thousand people was poisoned a decade ago, 118 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 11: and not one government official, private and individual has been 119 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 11: held accountable. Not one has even seen a jury, and unfortunately, 120 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 11: it does not seem anyone will be held accountable. 121 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 7: Not to get two in the weeds. 122 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 11: But Attorney General Dana Essel of Michigan, she is a 123 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 11: beloved you know MSNBC resistance hero for some of the 124 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 11: cases she brought against Republicans the election scheme, but she 125 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 11: basically tanked the criminal investigation the Michigan State Supreme Court 126 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 11: throughout her offices criminal prosecution, stating that they essentially violated 127 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 11: the state constitution in the way they brought it. As 128 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 11: a result, former Governor Rick Snyder's charges were thrown out. 129 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 11: Eight other state officials charges were thrown out. In many cases, 130 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 11: the statute of limitations has passed those crimes, and as 131 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 11: we speak, the criminal investigation has ended, so it seems 132 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 11: no one will be held criminally accountable. 133 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: Jordan, Lastly, what do you think that this story tells 134 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: us about America? 135 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 11: I think the story of Flint tells us about America 136 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 11: that the capitalist system, if you're in the wrong city 137 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 11: at the wrong time, if you have leaders that want 138 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 11: to you know, run government like a business, throw emergency managers, 139 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 11: which are unelected czars to take over power, try to 140 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 11: you know, privatize things, which is what led to this. 141 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 7: The government is not going to help you, really help you. 142 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 11: If you are poisoned, whether it's water, whether it's fracking, mining, 143 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 11: whether a train blows up in your town in Ohio, 144 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 11: you know you'll get some kind of artificial surface help 145 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 11: and that the headlines will say you're getting money, but 146 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 11: at the end of the day, they will leave you 147 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 11: to slowly die. And that's what's happening in Flint, between 148 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 11: the cancer and other illnesses from lead and other things 149 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 11: that we're in that water. It's basically a city that's 150 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 11: been abandoned by the government and the media. 151 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: And there are so many places like that around the 152 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: country which you have done maybe a better job than 153 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: anyone on covering and staying with the story even after 154 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 1: a lot of the cameras go away. Thank you for 155 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: joining us, Thank you for doing this incredible work on 156 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: the documentary, and thank you also for letting us post 157 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: this on our channel. We're really proud to be able 158 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: to premiere this and show off the work that you've 159 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: done and bring this story to you to the country, 160 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: So everybody make sure you check out Jordan's documentary and 161 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: any last thoughts Jordan or any additional advice on how 162 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 1: to follow your work. 163 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 7: And thank you to breaking points. 164 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 11: There are no mainstream media outlets that are willing to 165 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 11: stay on Flint, so you're not a mainstream outlet and 166 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 11: that's why you're airing it. Yes, you can check out 167 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 11: and subscribe to Status Coup on YouTube Status coup where 168 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 11: we cover Flint, East Palestine and many similar stories, and 169 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 11: you could support our work at status cu dot com, slash. 170 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: Join statisticcou dot com. Guys, go check it out. They 171 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: do really important work that is totally overlooked by the 172 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: mainstream press. 173 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 13: Jordan always great to see and talk to you. Thank you, sir. 174 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 7: So. 175 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: One thing we have been covering here for quite a 176 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: while is the massive role in the US and really 177 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: global economy of the behemoth Amazon. So we're lucky to 178 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: be joined this morning by an author of a new 179 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: book about that corporate giant. The title is The Everything War, 180 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: Amazon's ruthless quest to own the world and remake corporate power. 181 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: The author is Dana Mattioli. She's a Wall Street Journal 182 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: Amazon reporter, and she joins us. Now, Dana, great to 183 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: meet you and welcome. 184 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 5: Good to see you, Thanks for having me. 185 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, So tell us what is sort of 186 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: the core thesis of the book. 187 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 8: Yeah, the book tracks Amazon's rise from this garage startup 188 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 8: to really the most dominant force in corporate America, but 189 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 8: the world of writ large, its effects on the economy, 190 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 8: job creation, competition, and how it's found itself in the 191 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 8: center of this monopoly lawsuit because of the habit it's 192 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 8: reaped across different industries. So it's an investigation to the 193 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 8: company's business practices and the results of it having accumulated 194 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 8: so much power. 195 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: One of the things that you go into data is 196 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: about monopoly itself and the definition. I'm wondering if you 197 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 2: could lay that out from our audience, because I know 198 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: it's a bit complicated, But what's the effect of that 199 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: and how regulators are looking at the power of Amazon. 200 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 5: Yeah. 201 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 8: So these anti trust laws were first derived in the 202 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 8: Gilded Age to stop the trust like standard oil, and 203 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 8: for years, in the years decades it was enforced to 204 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 8: allow competition, to protect smaller rivals to compete. 205 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 5: There was a change in the way that it was 206 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 5: enforced in the nineteen seventies and eighties. 207 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 8: Where the lens shifted to looking at these laws and 208 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 8: competition through its effect on prices and efficiency. Companies were 209 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 8: offering low prices and they could be more efficient. There 210 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 8: was a standard of letting that happen, and we stopped defending, 211 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 8: you know, David versus Goliath so vehemently, and that's sort 212 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 8: of given rise to companies like Amazon. In the early days, 213 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 8: in particular, it was known as this low cost retailer. 214 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 8: So as long as it was offering low prices for consumers, 215 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 8: it was allowed to get away with lots of other 216 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 8: types of behavior that would have been enforced in years past. 217 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 5: And you see that throughout big tech with Google and 218 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 5: Apple and Facebook as well. 219 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: So one of the things that you point to an 220 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: anecdote that you have in the story just so people 221 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: can get like a finer point on the type of 222 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: behavior you're talking about, is how when Amazon decided they 223 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: wanted to go into the food business and have a 224 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: private label, their approach was just to higher up some 225 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: former Trader Joe's execs and be like, give us everything 226 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: you have about what their top items are and we're 227 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: just going to copy them, and that's what we're going 228 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: to do to just tell us about that anecdote and 229 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,479 Speaker 1: how that connects to their typical business practices. 230 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 8: So in twenty fifteen, Amazon was launching this food brand 231 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 8: called Wickedly Prime, and they wrote this paper internally to 232 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 8: Pitchet to management and it said, we want to replicate 233 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 8: the top two hundred items at Trader Joe's. Problem was 234 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 8: they didn't know what those items were. So they set 235 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 8: out and hired this executive from Trader Joe's, didn't really 236 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 8: tell her what she'd be working on, and her first 237 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 8: week in Seattle, she stumbles across this very secretive conference room. 238 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 8: It has brown paper covering the windows in the door 239 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 8: so no one could see inside, and she walks in 240 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 8: and it's filled with boxes or Trader joe Snacks, the 241 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 8: exact area that she worked in at Trader Joe's. She 242 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 8: starts getting alarmed, and from there her manager starts pressuring 243 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 8: her to give any sorts of documents she had retained 244 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 8: from her employment at Trader Joe's, even though she has 245 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 8: an NDA and whatnot. 246 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 5: She caves to the pressure. 247 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 8: She gives them an Excel spreadsheet with the top items 248 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 8: from Trader Joe's, the sales volume over the course of 249 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 8: a week. But then he just keeps hounding Graces. I 250 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 8: want the margins data, he screams at her. She cries 251 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 8: in the middle of Amazon's headquarters. And someone reported this 252 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 8: to legal so the people that were involved did get 253 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 8: let go. But everyone I've spoken to has said this 254 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 8: was so indicative of the pressure people at Amazon are 255 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 8: under to perform. They need to improve their numbers, they 256 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 8: need to hit their targets because at the end of 257 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 8: the year, the bottom six percent gets cut, and that 258 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 8: has effects on the type of behavior that play out 259 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 8: across the company. And this is like not an isolated 260 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 8: incident by any means. 261 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: Right well, And in this instance, they didn't have access 262 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: to the Trader joe information, and it's not something that 263 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: you can get publicly, So their approach was, all right, 264 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: we're going to hire this person and we're just going 265 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: to steal the information and then we're going to copy it. 266 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: But in lots of cases, you know, they have this 267 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: giant marketplace with lots of independent sellers. 268 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 13: They can see exactly which. 269 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: Products are selling really well and performing really well among 270 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: their customers. They can replicate those products, and then they 271 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: can use their own algorithm to make sure that when 272 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: a shopper is looking for something like that product, it's 273 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: not that original independent sellers product who gets pushed. It's 274 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: their business line that gets pushed, so that they get 275 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: to reap the benefits of every aspect of this marketplace. 276 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 5: And they've been doing that for years. 277 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 8: The book gets into details about how, first of all, 278 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 8: Amazon has unprecedented access to data not just from its sellers, 279 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 8: but its rivals. It's partners that you see time and 280 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 8: time again in really shocking ways, Amazon uses that information 281 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 8: to undercut them and to reverse engineer their hits and 282 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 8: claim it as their own. On the private label side, 283 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 8: they were spying on their sellers, taking their data on 284 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 8: about what's selling well, and then reverse engineering it in 285 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 8: shins in and just putting some of these sellers out 286 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 8: of business. But we also saw that the on the 287 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 8: VC arm, you know Amazon, because they're so big there, 288 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 8: there's many tentacle octopus with such big market share everywhere. 289 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 8: Founders come and pitch them on an acquisition or funding, 290 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 8: and so many of the people I spoke to came 291 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 8: out of those meetings saying was that a deal making 292 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 8: talk or was that corporate espionage? 293 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 4: M Wow? 294 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: Fascinating, David, So in the future, what do you expect 295 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: now that Amazon is already what is it, the second 296 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: largest employer in the United States, Their power is only increasing. 297 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 2: They are eventually going to brush up against actual legislative 298 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: action or even the FTC. Where do you see the 299 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: future going for Amazon right now? 300 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 8: So, the FTC filed a lawsuit against Amazon saying that 301 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 8: you're a monopoly. It will go to court in twenty 302 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 8: twenty six, so that's still some times away from here. 303 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 8: But what's kind of interesting to me is that they 304 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 8: don't seem at all rattled. They Andy Jasse, the CEO 305 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 8: right now, has told his deputies that we could be 306 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 8: a ten trillion dollar company. Their general counsel a few 307 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 8: weeks after this lawsuit was filed against Amazon, got on 308 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 8: stage in All Hands and was asked about his outlook 309 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 8: for the monopoly lawsuit, and he said, haters are. 310 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 5: Going to hate, going to shake it off. So we 311 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 5: just quoted, you know, Taylor Swift. So they really don't seem. 312 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: Phased or to have any shame about ringe comments like that. Dane, 313 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: My last question for you is just to give the 314 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: other side, like, you know, there's a lot of people 315 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: who love Amazon, who are like Amazon's amazing and they're 316 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: super convenient, and guess what, Like they did amazing and 317 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: they grew to such size because people really like what 318 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: they had to offer and it's super cool that I 319 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: can get you know, my toilet paper delivered next day 320 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: or whatever. And you know something I saw you got 321 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: a question about before. You got a lot of independent 322 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: sellers who may be in some small town in Kansas 323 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: or wherever, and now they're able to each reach this 324 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: global marketplace. Isn't that glorious for them? So what's your 325 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: response there? 326 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 8: I would say for consumers, we should be thinking about 327 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 8: at what costs? So what was very telling to me 328 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 8: is I went back to some of Amazon's earliest employees 329 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 8: from the nineteen nineties, the people. 330 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 5: That helped build this machine. 331 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 8: They've become fabulously wealthy from their stock options at the time, right, 332 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 8: I mean, they're living really well, and I've gone back 333 00:17:59,040 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 8: to them to say, like, how do you. 334 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 5: Fel about the company now? 335 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 8: So many of them have canceled their prime accounts, a 336 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 8: lot of them avoid Amazon wherever they can, and some 337 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 8: of them have even said I feel like I helped 338 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 8: build a monster. 339 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 5: Like they have regrets about this. 340 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 8: They worry about its impact on innovation, main street, the economy. 341 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 8: I mean, if you look at just the jobs in 342 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 8: retail in twenty eighteen, there's a net loss of seven 343 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 8: hundred thousand retail jobs according to one study, and then 344 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 8: between twenty one and twenty seventeen, half a million department 345 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 8: store jobs were evaporated. That's eighteen times as many as 346 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 8: they were lost in coal mining, to give you an example, right, 347 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 8: And that's just one of their tentacles. And you know, 348 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 8: when I speak to those CEOs, the mall retailer CEOs, 349 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 8: the CEOs of the department stores, of the other retailers, 350 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 8: they point directly at Amazon. 351 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 2: Really a lot to think about. I recommend everybody go 352 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 2: and buy the book. We'll have a link in the description. 353 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. 354 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, great to have you, Dana, Thank you, Thank you 355 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: very much. 356 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 3: Welcome to Breakpoints Beyond the Headlines. 357 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 7: My name is James Lee. 358 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 6: Joining us today is Jen Peerlman. She is running against 359 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 6: Debbie Wasserman Schultz in the Democratic primary to represent Florida's 360 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 6: twenty fifth congressional district. 361 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 3: Jen Welcome to the show. 362 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 13: Thank you so much for having me on. 363 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 6: Of course, of course, first question has to be I think, 364 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 6: why are you running? Because we all know that the 365 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 6: Democratic Party probably doesn't want you to run. So tell 366 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 6: us what makes your candidacy different than that of your opponent, 367 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 6: Debbie Wasserman Schultz. 368 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 14: Okay, So the main reason that I ran in twenty 369 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 14: and the same reason that I'm running now is this 370 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 14: idea of transforming politics into service, this idea that this 371 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 14: is supposed to be a term of service and not 372 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 14: a career, and it is certainly not meant to be. 373 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 13: A lucrative career. 374 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 14: So the idea of having somebody in there in representing 375 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 14: this district that is not behold into the military industrial complex, 376 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 14: big pharma, APAC, you name, it is very appealing to 377 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 14: a lot of people in the district. And some people, yes, 378 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 14: there's policy and stuff that they're concerned with, but I 379 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 14: got to tell you, for the most part, what people 380 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 14: want is to get rid of the corruption and as 381 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 14: somebody who isn't looking for a second career and doesn't 382 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 14: need this job and generally gets like a five year, itch. 383 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 14: This is not this is not a career choice for me. 384 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 14: It has to be like, I'm not gonna sit there. 385 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 14: And the only reason I feel like it's hard right 386 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 14: now is unseating a corporate incumbent that's backed by APAC. 387 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 13: Right, this is about. 388 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 14: Unseating a corporate monolith and returning this seat and potentially 389 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 14: even the state of Florida to people that may have 390 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 14: its best interest at heart over people that do not. 391 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 6: I wanted to ask you. You brought up APAX several times, 392 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 6: so I wanted to ask you. Recently, they've been openly 393 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 6: bragging about their influence in Congress, whether with the big 394 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 6: build now to Israel, and also how their support basically 395 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 6: get and tease election to Congress and your opponent takes 396 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 6: millions from a pack. And there's been a lot written about. 397 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 3: This as well. 398 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 6: How much control do you think pro Israel lobbies have 399 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 6: on members of Congress? 400 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 7: Oh? 401 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 14: I think they seem to own them. They seem to 402 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 14: own actually all three branches of government and the fourth estate. 403 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 14: I find it terrifying. Everybody should be asking themselves why 404 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 14: isn't APAC registered as a foreign agent? Why is APAC 405 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 14: the only lobbying group on behalf of a foreign entity 406 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 14: that does not have to have his lobbyist registered as 407 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 14: foreign agents. Why is that so they can give unlimited dollars. 408 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 13: It's that's why. 409 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 14: And so you know, obviously we have we're being ruled 410 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 14: by the zion Estate. You can always tell who's in 411 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 14: charge by what you're not allowed to speak out against. 412 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 14: So if I can sit here and I can talk 413 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 14: about Joe Biden, no problem. I could talk about you know, 414 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 14: I could talk about my congressman, no problem. 415 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 13: But you talk about Israel, then that's it. 416 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 14: So that's clearly who's in charge. 417 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 13: I basically have told Apak to bring it. Bring it. 418 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 14: You can call me a self loathing Jew. You can 419 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 14: do what ever you want to do. It's of no 420 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 14: matter to me. But I will say to people who 421 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 14: would like to defeat the concept that electing someone like 422 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 14: me as an anti Zionist Jew over someone like Debbie 423 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 14: would be the strongest signal message that the collectively we 424 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 14: could send to APAC. Seriously, that would be like the 425 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 14: biggest fu to APAC. Because right now there aren't any 426 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 14: anti Zionist Jews running for Congress, and I haven't seen any. 427 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 14: But maybe a couple even sort of maybe kind to 428 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 14: say something that are in there, so you know, I'm 429 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 14: the last thing that they want. 430 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 6: Yeah, speaking of conflation of maybe anti Zionism anti Semitism 431 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 6: a lot. It's been going on in college campuses, most 432 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 6: recently at Columbia with the Gaza and campus sitting sitting. 433 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 6: And I also saw this morning footage from ny You 434 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 6: now reports of MIT tough other universities doing the exact 435 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 6: same thing, and some in the mainstream are really calling 436 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 6: these students terrorists. I've heard that thrown out there, some 437 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 6: members of Congress saying similar you know, not going as far, 438 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 6: but they're saying similar things, basically portraying them as not 439 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 6: anti Zionist protests but also anti Semitic, targeting Jews. I've 440 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 6: seen some videos, you know, both good and bad videos. 441 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 6: So I'm wondering, based on your values that you just 442 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 6: talked about, what's your reaction to what the students are doing. 443 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 14: I could not be prouder like I could almost cry 444 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 14: like I I those kids are the future of everything. 445 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 14: Those kids are smart and capable and organized, like serious say, 446 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 14: could cry, I am so proud of those kids. They're 447 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 14: not even my kids. But I mean, okay, I'm old 448 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 14: enough to be their mother, but I feel like, you know, 449 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 14: they are doing they are kicking ass. I could not 450 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 14: stand a more solidready. And as far as the people 451 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 14: that are calling them names and calling them out, that 452 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 14: is called the death throws of empire and the death 453 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 14: rows of capital. 454 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 13: And while it looks ugly, it's it's really a sign. 455 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 13: It's a sign. I know that people. 456 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 14: You know, it's scary, you know, like what's going on 457 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 14: is scary, but I you know, this is this is 458 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 14: how it needs to be before it can be different. 459 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 14: And so I understand that it's very uncomfortable for people. 460 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 14: But like those students, that is all my goal in 461 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 14: life is to consolidate those people with the union, the 462 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 14: labor movement, with the environmentalist movement, with the block cop 463 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,239 Speaker 14: city movement and everybody, and like that's the coalition that 464 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 14: we need to build. So those those kids are you know, 465 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 14: they're fighting for everyone. I'm very pleased with them, and 466 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 14: they need to I am, and I'm also will stand 467 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 14: in solid area with the professors that are putting their 468 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 14: careers on the line for standing up for these students. 469 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 14: And so you know, that is something that I yeah, 470 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 14: major respect. 471 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 6: If you're I'm curious, if you were one of the 472 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 6: university presidents, how would you handle this, because it's obviously 473 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 6: a very controversial, it's it's uncomfortable and that they're in 474 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 6: a tough spot, So I'm curious, how would you handle this. 475 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 14: I can actually tell you exactly how I would handle it, 476 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 14: because I can go back to the first time I 477 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 14: saw it was the mi T president and the pen 478 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 14: I think back like it was like a few months 479 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 14: ago when they were sitting in front and being questioned 480 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 14: by that vile woman up in New. 481 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 13: York, and. 482 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 14: She was asking them basically trying to get them to say, okay, 483 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 14: that they condone the basically that they condone the suggestion 484 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 14: of genocide, okay by saying that words like intifada and 485 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 14: phrases like from the river to the sea are chants 486 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 14: for genocide. And right there, when neither of those people 487 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 14: spoke up in that moment and looked her in the 488 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 14: face and said, nobody's calling for a genocide. That's not 489 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 14: what that means. And given that woman the. 490 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 13: History lesson that she needed it at the time. 491 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 14: I am so tired of people calling things what they 492 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 14: are not those chants have nothing to do with anti Semitism. 493 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 14: In fact, they are ethnic cleansing terms that were created 494 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 14: by the Lequd party in Israel. So if anybody, and 495 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 14: I will say this, like I say every time, every 496 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 14: single thing that Zionists accuse others of our only admissions 497 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 14: of stuff that they do. 498 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 13: And you know they're lying when their lips are moving. 499 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 13: And I know this because I. 500 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 14: Was trained and brainwashed and grown up all Zionist and proud, 501 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 14: and it's taken me about fourteen years to deprogram. 502 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 3: How did you deprogram yourself? What was your journey there? 503 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 14: It's you know what, It's taken a long time, and 504 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 14: it was it was definitely like a process. But it 505 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 14: started around the time of the Second Antifada, which was 506 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 14: also around the time that I started hearing about BDS. 507 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 14: And then I started hearing about anti BDS legislation. 508 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 13: This was like. 509 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 14: Early two thousands, and I started looking into that and 510 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 14: then it just sort of unfolded like a house of 511 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 14: cards online. Because I am someone who very much believes 512 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,239 Speaker 14: in the First Amendment, and so the idea that I 513 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 14: am not allowed to boycott a foreign entity and also 514 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 14: get a contract with a city for you know, for work. 515 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 14: That seems like a violation of my first Amendment to me. 516 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 14: And so then I started looking into why are we 517 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 14: so scared of BDS? Where does that come from? 518 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 13: You know? And it just it was a rabbit hole. 519 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 14: And up until even twenty nineteen, I still thought that 520 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 14: a two state solution was possible. 521 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 13: I was still what you. 522 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 14: Would call they call them liberal Zionists, like you believe 523 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 14: that the state of Israel has a right to exist, 524 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 14: but you believe Palestinians should have their own state. Those people, 525 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 14: and then once you do the research and you realize 526 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 14: that there was never an intent by Zionists to have 527 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 14: a Palestinian state. That was always made up talking point again, 528 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 14: like the whole thing unraveled. And so yeah, that's my background, 529 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 14: but it's very upsetting to me. I grew up in 530 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 14: a working class family that would send money to Israel 531 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 14: to plant trees in Israel. Everything was through J and F. 532 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 14: I did a high school program through the Jewish National 533 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 14: Fund called Alexander Muss High School in Israel where they 534 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 14: have us planting trees and occupied territory under armed guard, 535 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 14: and we all thought. 536 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 13: Oh, that's so cool. 537 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 14: This guy has an assault rifle and he's traveling with us. 538 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 14: And as a mother, I'm thinking, if you are taking 539 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 14: my child somewhere where you think that they need somebody 540 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 14: standing over them with an assault rifle to protect them, 541 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 14: you are somewhere you ought not be, and therefore you 542 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 14: are using my child as. 543 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 13: A human shield. 544 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 14: That's what I think, and also as a tool of 545 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 14: ethnic cleansing. So my thoughts on a pack and that 546 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 14: they can come for me all they want. I know 547 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 14: all their secrets, I know all their stories, I know 548 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 14: all their talking. 549 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 13: Points and all they have. They have money, they have money. 550 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 14: You know, they'll put out tons of constant reminding people 551 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 14: over and over again that I support terrorists, I'm a 552 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 14: Hamas lover. 553 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 13: You know they'll put that on repeat. 554 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 14: But the problem is, at the end of the day, 555 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 14: it's still only going to appeal to a very small, 556 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 14: finite echo chamber of voters and the people that will 557 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 14: watched that APAC loop over and over. It's not going 558 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 14: to expand that group of people isn't going to just 559 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 14: get bigger. You're not going to all of a sudden 560 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 14: have somebody that cares about that issue. 561 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 6: I don't think you're wrong there in terms of the 562 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 6: number of people supporting Israel in the same way they 563 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 6: have done in the past, or be smaller and smaller. 564 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 6: But we just saw this past weekend that doesn't really matter. 565 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 6: In Congress, they just you know, shove through this ninety 566 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,719 Speaker 6: five billion dollars a package Ukraine Israel. 567 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 3: A little bit of. 568 00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 14: It wouldn't have had my name on it. I could 569 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 14: tell you that right now. It would not have had 570 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 14: my name on it. And they could bundle it with 571 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 14: all sorts of other stuff. You could bundle it with everything, 572 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 14: you could put whipp cream and a cherry on top, 573 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 14: and I still would not sign that. 574 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 13: So yeah, I saw that. 575 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 14: And of course you know Debbie, she she would She 576 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 14: always gives them more money than they asked for. 577 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 6: So then, you know, we saw some of the footage 578 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 6: coming out this week from the from the weekend, just 579 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 6: members of Congress waving foreign flags, and it looked, you know, 580 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 6: it was a really striking visual to see, especially since 581 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 6: we have been more or less gridlocked on a lot 582 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 6: of these domestic legislative pieces. But then they got somehow 583 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 6: the ability to do that, also sneaking into the TikTok band, 584 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 6: which I think is a pretty unpopular legislation for for 585 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 6: the American people. So then what what do you say 586 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 6: the folks that you know that have kind of just 587 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 6: given up on the electoral process and say, well, it 588 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 6: doesn't matter who we vote in there, there's just still going. 589 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 3: To do the things that they do. 590 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 14: You know what, there is no solid answer for that. 591 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 14: I think you got to just be chipping away at it. 592 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 14: I mean, look, there were there were people that didn't 593 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 14: sign that. There were people there were even some Jewish 594 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 14: congress people that didn't sign that, So you know, it 595 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 14: can be done. You just need to start chipping away 596 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 14: at the corporate tentacles that are basically holding people. And 597 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 14: you can only do that by electing people that don't 598 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 14: take corporate money. And then it becomes even people that 599 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 14: don't take corporate money, but they're still scared of being 600 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 14: primaried from that corporate money. So even though they're not 601 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 14: taking it, they're still sort of acting in accordance with it. 602 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 14: So there's a lot of that too. And it's look, 603 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 14: I don't I can't speak for anyone else, right like, 604 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 14: I only know how it is for me, and I 605 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 14: would just always be as transparent and really bring this 606 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 14: home here, what people want, what they want to see, 607 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 14: and not just fall in line with a party or 608 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 14: fall in line with anybody if it's not in the 609 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 14: best interest or what the majority of people really want. 610 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, speak seeing a political strategy. So I've noticed that 611 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 6: if you compare them more you can say, more extreme 612 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 6: members of each party, the Freedom Caucus, those guys versus 613 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 6: say the squad one side seems much more willing to 614 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 6: play hardball to kind of get what we want. 615 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 3: Now, where would you stand? How how would you approach politics? 616 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 14: When I am sitting here and I'm on the same 617 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 14: page as people like Matt Gates and Marjorie Taylor Green 618 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 14: And this wasn't the first time, by the way. Now, 619 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 14: granted I will say this, her reasons for why she 620 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 14: would vote no to certain things are completely different than 621 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 14: my reasons. Okay, like that that's neither here nor there. 622 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 14: She doesn't want to give them money because she's worried 623 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 14: about China and space lasers or whatever her shit is. 624 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 14: But like their strategy of really sticking it to their 625 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 14: party is that's exactly what we need to be doing. 626 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 13: That's exactly that's. 627 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 14: The whole point of having a progressive caucus, except there's 628 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 14: like over one hundred people in the Progressive Caucus, but 629 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 14: yet only how many people signed didn't sign this resolution, 630 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 14: and that's barely being progressive. So no, I think that 631 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 14: they they are definitely feckless. I think they don't wield power. 632 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 14: I think they're more concerned with getting primaried. I think 633 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 14: that the rain Makers and the queen Bees and whoever 634 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 14: in that party just scare them and bully them. And 635 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 14: I don't Again, I don't know because I'm not there, 636 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 14: but I do know that there are a lot more 637 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 14: people listed in the Progressive Caucus then there are actually 638 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 14: seemingly progressive people. So maybe if that caucus actually stood 639 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 14: for something and really was a progressive caucus of actual 640 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 14: progressive people, not people that take like, let's say, big 641 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 14: farm and insurance money, then maybe they'd have power. But 642 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 14: they don't have any power because they're infiltrated by so 643 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 14: many different people that aren't really with them. Like there's 644 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 14: no what is that the squad isn't a real thing. 645 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 14: That's a made up term by media. That's not a 646 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 14: real thing. 647 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 6: Yeah, when I'm looking at this whole election cycle and 648 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 6: in totality all the way from the top to the bottom. 649 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 3: I kind of see. 650 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 6: So there's a lot of people, I think gravitating towards 651 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 6: the more Trump like figures. The guys who are out 652 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 6: there saying, hey, we're going to have the best country, 653 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 6: the best economy, we have the jobs coming back, strong border, 654 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 6: a little bit of that, you could say, just trust me, 655 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 6: give me the keys, and I'm going to take good 656 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 6: care of you vibes. And then I think the other side, 657 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 6: the Democrats have characterized that kind of posturing is dictatorial 658 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 6: and that's why we need to vote Joe Biden. 659 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 3: We got to save democracy. 660 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 6: They don't really talk too much about their domestic agenda 661 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 6: beyond anti Trump. So what I'm curious about is, let's 662 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 6: say the Democrats are right. Let's say we go with 663 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 6: their definition. One side is dictatorship. The other side is 664 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 6: what maybe what you just kind of characterize as a 665 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 6: pseudo democratic administration that's in effect owned by many of 666 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 6: the same groups lobby I. 667 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 14: Was talking about Congress. If you want to talk about 668 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 14: Joe now, we're not just talking now, we're talking genocidal. So, yeah, 669 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 14: you might have a dictator on one side, but you 670 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 14: got somebody genocidal on the other, but please continue. 671 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 6: So then what is one side truly that different than 672 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 6: the other? I guess what are your thoughts on this argument? 673 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 13: I think it's absurd. 674 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 14: I think the fact that we're sitting here and talking 675 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 14: about between those two individuals in particular, that that's the 676 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 14: two main choices, that's a sign that we no longer 677 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 14: have a democracy. 678 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 13: We're already there. 679 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 14: People, We have so crossed over into the realm of 680 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 14: fascist corporate takeover of this country that I just don't 681 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 14: know what to tell you anymore. But the fact that 682 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 14: that's the choice, what are you scared? 683 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 13: Seriously? 684 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 14: And the thing is the people that truly do I 685 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 14: have found this And I have been dialing for dollars 686 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 14: a lot lately, so I talk to a lot of 687 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 14: people on the phone, and I always say, you know, 688 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 14: who do you like in the election? And so I'm 689 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 14: talking to a lot of. 690 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 13: People, and without without fail, the. 691 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,720 Speaker 14: People whose primary concern is about Trump are more privileged people. 692 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 13: Without fail, the. 693 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,399 Speaker 14: People who are struggling, working, whatever they it's they don't 694 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 14: even mention Trump. They mention they mentioned healthcare, they mentioned 695 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,760 Speaker 14: in clean water, they mention wars, they mention those things. 696 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 14: So the people that are really so scared of Trump 697 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 14: at this point are really a small group of people, 698 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 14: and it is an establishment, democratic, very elitist group of people, 699 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 14: and they are completely out of touch with regular people 700 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 14: because when you talk to like vulnerable people or in 701 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 14: any moment, so for example, Palestinians at the moment, I'm 702 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 14: pretty sure that there's nothing worse than somebody who's participating 703 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 14: in genociding their family. I'm pretty sure that there's no 704 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 14: worse than that, like that, that's as bad as You're 705 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 14: not going to scare them with anything at this point. 706 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 14: So you look at the most vulnerable and oppressed people 707 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 14: at any time, and look at from their perspective, what's 708 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,879 Speaker 14: their perspective on who would be worse? Not who would 709 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 14: be worse for rich you know, you know, elitist America. 710 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 13: That doesn't concern me. You look at it for what 711 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 13: would be worse for the least of these. And I 712 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 13: am telling you from someone who. 713 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 14: Has been in the streets with the least of these 714 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 14: for the better part of the past five years. It 715 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,879 Speaker 14: is six to one half a dozen of the other 716 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 14: between those two people, I assure you. 717 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 6: Before I let you go, I want to talk about 718 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 6: your campaign specifically. So you ran twenty twenty also against W. 719 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:14,720 Speaker 6: Wasserman Schultz. 720 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 3: You lost. 721 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 6: I think the vote count was about fifty five k 722 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 6: for her, twenty one for you, seventy thirty split. So 723 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,240 Speaker 6: this time in twenty twenty four, what are you trying 724 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,959 Speaker 6: to do differently? What do you see as your path 725 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 6: to victory? You know, between now in August twentieth, what 726 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 6: are the kinds of things that you and your campaign 727 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 6: are doing to strategically try to close that gap? 728 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 14: Okay, So let me be very clear, even though I 729 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 14: didn't run in twenty two, I have been working canvassing 730 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 14: in this district for the past four years, whether it 731 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 14: was for women's reproductive freedom, whether it was for other 732 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 14: candidates whatever. Okay, So just the amount of community ties, 733 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 14: name recognition, build up all of that connections in city 734 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,359 Speaker 14: commission seats that weren't there four years ago, people that 735 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,399 Speaker 14: are in positions were other people used to put their 736 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 14: hands on the wait for Debbie, hands on the scale 737 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 14: for Debbie. Just a lot of things in played there, 738 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 14: also just having my podcast having more name recognition. But 739 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 14: our district lines have also changed, and the entire Dade 740 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 14: County portion that used to be in our district, which 741 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 14: is coastal, affluent, very Jewish. That entire portion is no 742 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 14: longer in our district, and instead we gained an area, 743 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 14: a town called Mirramar, which is very working class, canvasible, 744 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 14: regular people, heavy Latino, a lot of Haitian islander you know, 745 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:46,240 Speaker 14: working people, but most importantly canvasible because the rich, hoity 746 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 14: toity high rises that got cut out of our district 747 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 14: were areas that we couldn't even canvas as a grassroots campaign. 748 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 14: So the only way in those is TV and mailers, 749 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 14: which we could do a couple but she's able to 750 00:38:58,520 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 14: like flood it. 751 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 13: So to get rid of. 752 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 14: Portions of the district that aren't canvassible is a huge 753 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 14: gain for us. But then you also look at the 754 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 14: demographic that she lost. She lost, she lost a lot. 755 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 13: Of wealthy Jewish people. 756 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 14: It's actually where I'm from is the part of the 757 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 14: district that's no longer in district where I grew up 758 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 14: is that, and so what we gained is not that. 759 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 14: So the demographic has changed, uh as well. That is 760 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 14: also in favor of people fighting for working class issues. 761 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 13: So there's been a lot of different variables. 762 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 14: And honestly, what's going on in Gaza is that that 763 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 14: makes it almost a perfect storm in terms of the 764 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 14: people that have been reaching out to me and wanting 765 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 14: to support me, and people especially in the Muslim community 766 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 14: that aren't overly politically involved normally, but are very organized 767 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 14: and involved right now. And I just feel like the 768 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 14: tide is turning. It just feels it just feels it 769 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 14: just different this time. And again it's still it's still 770 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 14: an uphill battle to unseat and incumbent, you know what 771 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 14: I mean, it's by no means, it's by no means, 772 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 14: just like a gimme no matter what. But I definitely 773 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 14: know that we have made huge advancements in terms of 774 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 14: my presence in the community as well as national for 775 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 14: fundraising and name recognition. I actually have a team this time, 776 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 14: which is amazing because last time it was my business 777 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 14: partner and I and it was just the two of 778 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 14: us basically, and we had some people helping us do stuff, 779 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 14: but were we It's. 780 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 13: This is so much better to have. 781 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 14: It's so nice to have a campaign manager, it's so 782 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 14: nice to have a finance person. It's just it's like, 783 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,240 Speaker 14: it's it feels almost luxurious to me. So I feel 784 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:41,839 Speaker 14: like the way that I did it the first time, 785 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 14: being so insane, made it that. 786 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 13: Maybe this is why it's easy or feels easier to me. 787 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 14: Maybe that's why, like people, maybe if you start this way, 788 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 14: you're just used to having a campaign manager and a 789 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 14: comms person and all that. 790 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 13: I don't. We're not used to that. 791 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 14: So I definitely feel like there's a team of people 792 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 14: working really really hard, and I'm it's yeah, it's inspiring. 793 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 6: Where can people find more information about your campaign if 794 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,720 Speaker 6: they're interested in learning more perhaps even getting involved. 795 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 14: Oh for sure at gen j e N twenty twenty 796 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 14: four dot org and go there, sign up. All of 797 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 14: the links are social media are on there. I do 798 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 14: not want to begin to tell you what all the 799 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:24,399 Speaker 14: social media handles are. 800 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 13: I just I can't. So go to GEN twenty twenty 801 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 13: four dot org. 802 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 14: And if you're local by any chance and you would 803 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,879 Speaker 14: like to help locally, we'd love to have you sign 804 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 14: up and show up in an event or something like 805 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 14: that too. But anybody can volunteer from anywhere. And if 806 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 14: you want to even host a fundraiser, we can do 807 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 14: those on Zoom. If you have like a group of 808 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 14: people that you think would be interested in having a chat, 809 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,399 Speaker 14: you know, like I could be you know, I do GEN, 810 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 14: I could do GEN talks for hire. There we just 811 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 14: there're zoom fundraisers and we have a few different things 812 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 14: coming up that are that are going to be fun. 813 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 9: Uh. 814 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 14: We're going to be having a Jess Eventura fundraise her 815 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 14: that he's going to do for us. And that's the 816 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 14: one coming up that is a public it will be 817 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 14: a public thing soon. 818 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 4: All right. 819 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 6: Well, Jen Perlman, everybody, we appreciate you for joining us 820 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 6: today on breaking points. 821 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,399 Speaker 3: Best of luck on the campaign, GRIP. 822 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 7: Thank you.