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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hello again and welcome to the Book of Joe Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I am Tom Berducci. I am here as always with

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Speaker 1: Joe Madden. We'd like to call this the most interesting

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Speaker 1: baseball podcast.

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Speaker 2: On the planet.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to make a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: detour right now to talk about football and Joe Madden's

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Speaker 1: favorite quarterback in the league right now, Rock Party. His

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Speaker 1: dad obviously play pitch for Joe Madden in the minor

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Speaker 1: leagues and the Angels system and Brock Party.

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Speaker 2: Joe keeps doing brock purty things.

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Speaker 1: The guy picked last in the National Football League Draft

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Speaker 1: is taking the San Francisco forty nine ers to the

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl. This is now two weeks in a row

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Speaker 1: where Brock Perty it looked like a pitcher who didn't

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Speaker 1: have his a game on the mound somehow found it

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Speaker 1: late in the game.

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Speaker 2: Two weeks in a row.

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Speaker 1: If you look at his win over Green Bay, Joe,

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Speaker 1: now this win on Sunday against Detroit, in those critical

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Speaker 1: moments with his team down, he completed nineteen out of

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Speaker 1: twenty three passes for two hundred and eighty four yards.

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Speaker 1: And he's now twenty one and five as a starting

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Speaker 1: quarterback in the NFL. Joe, you've seen it with some

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Speaker 1: baseball pitchers and maybe you don't grade out on the

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Speaker 1: analytics numbers with over the top stuff, but some guys

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Speaker 1: just know how to win.

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Speaker 2: Huh.

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Speaker 3: That's it. That sums it all up. That's well done. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's makeup, brother, it's makeup. It's competitive nature. Of course,

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Speaker 3: he has talent. I mean people will speak about him

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Speaker 3: as though he's void of talent, that he can't throw.

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Speaker 3: Whatever you watch, he made some nice throws yesterday and

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Speaker 3: some tight windows. Early on, he was not he was off.

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Speaker 3: He was off. He looked like it might have been

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Speaker 3: a little bit quick his confidence was it quite there yet,

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Speaker 3: or that rhythm was not there yet. But eventually they

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Speaker 3: showed one tight shot of him talking to Shanahan on

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Speaker 3: the sidelines, and I thought, Shanahan look like this, like

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Speaker 3: through the side of his mouth, saying something a little

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Speaker 3: bit more stern than normal, and you could see Brock

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Speaker 3: listening listening. Took it. I got it. I got it.

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Speaker 3: And then eventually he comes out in the second half

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Speaker 3: and does what he normally does. It was beautiful. I

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Speaker 3: love that and you're right, you're putting together a team,

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Speaker 3: a baseball team or a football team whatever, that's not

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Speaker 3: At some point, I think you have to almost begin

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Speaker 3: with what are we looking for here? Makeup, competitive nature, accountability.

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Speaker 3: These are the kind of things that he just drips with,

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Speaker 3: all those intangibles, and I think that's it. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he only got drafted when he got drafted because they

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Speaker 3: recognized that within him. They probably talked to somebody as

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Speaker 3: coach whatever, whomever, and this kid's got great intangibles. He competes,

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Speaker 3: he never quits. The guy's rally around him. That's probably

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Speaker 3: why he got drafted. And of course you know, his

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Speaker 3: arm's definitely good enough. And then here comes at the

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Speaker 3: biggest stage. Last year he kind of walked in there

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Speaker 3: without any expectations and kind of nailed it. This year

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Speaker 3: a little bit more expectations, and so there might have

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Speaker 3: been those moments when it was a little bit quicker,

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Speaker 3: a little bit fuzzier, but he eventually was able to

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Speaker 3: slow it down and get it done. So that's what

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Speaker 3: I see. And yeah, they went in deep breath, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we got this, Like you said, make a few adjustments.

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Speaker 3: Whereas the other team, I thought Detroit, was like looked

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Speaker 3: up and all of a sudden, like, wow, look where

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Speaker 3: we're at. One bad break and all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: it got fast and that's what happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and listen, you know his dad, Well, there was

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Speaker 1: a great shot there of his dad and the stands after.

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Speaker 1: You know, brought me at a couple of great plays

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Speaker 1: with his feet there a couple of times, even put

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Speaker 1: his shoulder down.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't going into the slide mode.

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Speaker 1: You could see him competing in the in the tightest

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Speaker 1: moments of the game, going for every yard that he could.

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Speaker 1: And his dad at one point got up in one

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Speaker 1: of the up there one of those runs and you

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Speaker 1: could read the lips and you heard the atta boy

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Speaker 1: right there, Joe.

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Speaker 2: Our listeners can go back and listen.

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Speaker 1: To our podcast with brock Perty's dad, give us an

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Speaker 1: idea of what he was like as a competitor and

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Speaker 1: a picture for you.

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Speaker 3: I just described hi when I was talking about his kid, right,

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Speaker 3: That's that's how he was. You know, he wasn't the

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Speaker 3: most gifted by any means, but and he wasn't like

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Speaker 3: a tall right hander like you're always looking for. Not

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Speaker 3: a perfect body either, but really focus He's the kind

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Speaker 3: of guy when you had a conversation with him that

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Speaker 3: you're right in the eyeballs, had like this really deep

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Speaker 3: focused look about him, heard everything you said, highly respectful,

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Speaker 3: and was obviously always looking for an edge, always looking

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Speaker 3: to get better. So when he pitched, he kept getting better.

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Speaker 3: And I don't he never made it to the big leagues, right,

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Speaker 3: We got through Triple A, I think with the Giants,

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Speaker 3: isn't that right? Right?

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Speaker 2: That's right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then he kind of started closing games there

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Speaker 3: because his makeup was so good. But if you're going

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Speaker 3: to go out there as a scout with the gun

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Speaker 3: and watch this and put the gun behind home plate

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Speaker 3: and see what's he doing, not, you're not going to

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Speaker 3: be blown away by anything that he's doing nothing excepting

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Speaker 3: to take it in its entirety. The guy was just

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Speaker 3: such so competitive and wanted to win and cared so

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Speaker 3: much and again full of respect and accountability. Oh okay,

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Speaker 3: you talk about Sean, you talk about his kid Brock,

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Speaker 3: same dudes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: And obviously, as you mentioned that, the forty nine ers

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Speaker 1: saw something in him, it did take a while to

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Speaker 1: get drafted and weren't jumping out on him early, but

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Speaker 1: they saw something there. And give credit to that coaching

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Speaker 1: staff too, because one of the great things I like

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Speaker 1: about Brock is, you know, he played a lot in college.

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Speaker 1: He had a lot of reps under his belt in

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Speaker 1: a lot of different circumstances. So playing that position, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing like the experience of reps under center from the snap.

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Speaker 2: So give them credit for sticking with a guy.

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Speaker 1: Again, he doesn't have anything I would say, Joe, that

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Speaker 1: grades out physically as extraordinary. He does a lot of

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Speaker 1: things well, but you know, arm strength, size, speed, those

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Speaker 1: kinds of things, nothing is going to value. So give

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Speaker 1: credit to that staff because if you've paid attention a

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Speaker 1: little bit to the NFL, Joe, you've seen that the

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Speaker 1: same thing that has happened in baseball is happening in

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Speaker 1: the NFL, where teams are putting more faith in analytics

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Speaker 1: departments and they're growing in size, and each one comes

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Speaker 1: with their own agenda and their own kind of information

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Speaker 1: and they're feeding that to the coaching staffs. Another coaching

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Speaker 1: staffs are put in a position where they know the

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Speaker 1: analytics group, you know, that's.

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Speaker 2: All coming from upstairs.

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Speaker 1: So to deny what they're bringing to you is to

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Speaker 1: deny your bosses essentially, So there's a little push and

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Speaker 1: pull going on there that we've seen happen in baseball,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's why you see people like you know,

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Speaker 1: Mike Vrabel getting fired that Bill Belichick can't get a

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Speaker 1: job despite his resume, because to bring in a big

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Speaker 1: Bill Belichick, you essentially have to, you know, reform or

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Speaker 1: repurpose your analytics department because they're not going to have

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Speaker 1: the same sway with a guy like Bill Belichick because

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Speaker 1: a lot of people just don't want to undo what's

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Speaker 1: put in place with the analytics department and hire a

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Speaker 1: coach who's going to have the larger say when it

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Speaker 1: comes to whether it's personnel or planning, So less similarities

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Speaker 1: there as information grows around the game and these these

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Speaker 1: groups grow larger and larger. That's why, to circle back

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Speaker 1: to brock Purty, I give Shanahan the forty nine ers

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Speaker 1: staff credit for sticking with guy and seeing that there

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Speaker 1: was something in the in the way this guy can

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Speaker 1: run a game, especially in a tight spot.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how you measure that, but coaches know

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Speaker 2: when they see it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what you're talking about there obviously too, It happens

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Speaker 3: in baseball football. Whatever the deeper the draft gets or

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Speaker 3: the likely the less tools that the player probably has,

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Speaker 3: and that's where you got to really dig into the makeup.

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Speaker 3: I think the deeper a draft gets you, you're still

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Speaker 3: gonna have a gut there with maybe one big tool,

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Speaker 3: maybe two, So they're gonna you're gonna go after that

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Speaker 3: and bet on that that that might surface and eventually

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Speaker 3: you can fill in the blanks with the other parts

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Speaker 3: of his game that may need some more work. So again,

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Speaker 3: like we're talking about Brock, you just can't discount the pact. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he could throw the football, and he throws well on

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Speaker 3: the run, and he moves and he got great vision

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Speaker 3: and all this other stuff. So those are the things

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Speaker 3: that probably got him drafted or whether they stayed with him,

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Speaker 3: and I got to believe just the conversation with them

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Speaker 3: how to be very very impactful. Next point on the

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Speaker 3: analytical component infiltrating football. Now, Campbell gets a lot of

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Speaker 3: credit for having a lot of boldness with what he does,

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Speaker 3: and I agree. I listen, I would have played for

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Speaker 3: this guy in a heartbeat, But I also believe going

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Speaker 3: for it on fourth down like he has as often

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Speaker 3: as he has has been encouraged by the people that

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Speaker 3: works within his analytical department, so it's easier for him

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Speaker 3: to make that decision, and then when it doesn't go well,

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Speaker 3: he's okay because he's going to be supported with that.

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Speaker 3: I've talked about this before and the best way I

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Speaker 3: could describe it, and I do believe it to be

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Speaker 3: true that analytics provides a safety net for decision making.

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Speaker 3: In other words, when you are basing a decision completely

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Speaker 3: and entirely on analytics and it doesn't go well, everybody's

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Speaker 3: okay with that because it's been supported by all the

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Speaker 3: group upstairs, all the guys we've fired, this vast number

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Speaker 3: of analysts that says it's it's wise er, it's you know,

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Speaker 3: let's let's do it on this particular situation. It's it's

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Speaker 3: a good bet, let's do it, et cetera. And if

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Speaker 3: it doesn't work out, just keep doing it because eventually

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Speaker 3: it's going to That's where the safety net is provided.

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Speaker 3: So coaches that are fully bought into analytical departments can

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Speaker 3: make decisions somewhat more freely or easily because they are

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Speaker 3: being supported in that regard. Now, if there's not so

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Speaker 3: much analytics involved me if there is analytics involved, and

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Speaker 3: say the coach kind of goes rogue on analytics and

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Speaker 3: makes decisions based on even he'll admit after the game

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Speaker 3: with something I felt, something I had thought about in

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Speaker 3: the past, something that's worked for me before. And if

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Speaker 3: he provides that kind of an explanation, that does not

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Speaker 3: play well with the way front offices and information is

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Speaker 3: gathered today. So there's there in lies the rubs. So

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Speaker 3: when you get an aggressive coach that takes chances in

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Speaker 3: an NFL football game or collegiately whatever, just know that

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Speaker 3: he is being highly supported by his department up stairs,

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Speaker 3: which then permits him to make this decision more freely.

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Speaker 3: Because if it's not right, it's cool. But when you

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Speaker 3: make decisions like a Belichick or a Rabel or the

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Speaker 3: other guys that may have been looking for a job

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Speaker 3: right now, and it doesn't go right, then it's really

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Speaker 3: frowned upon and you need to start listening more. You know,

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Speaker 3: play the dots defense will wherever they is. Whatever I

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Speaker 3: tell you the players shortstop, play them on this count,

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Speaker 3: because that's what the dots say, That's what it's that's

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Speaker 3: what it's really evolved into so just trying to give

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Speaker 3: an overarching view on all this, that's what's going on.

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Speaker 3: You've got a player and a Scott, a department that

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Speaker 3: takes a chance on rock Party for all these human reasons,

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Speaker 3: and then you get a guy like Campbell taking chances

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Speaker 3: that might be part of his personnel it appears to be.

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Speaker 3: But when you're supported by front office analytical departments, it's

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Speaker 3: easier to make a decision like that and be wrong

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Speaker 3: and be good with it. John.

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Speaker 1: I like the way you put that, calling it a

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Speaker 1: safety net when you have the numbers behind you, and

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Speaker 1: that certainly I think leads to the widespread adoptions to

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Speaker 1: some of the things we're seeing. For instance, in the end,

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Speaker 1: it has become I would say routine now that on

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Speaker 1: fourth and two or less, depending on where you are

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Speaker 1: on the field, I would say mid midfield in teams

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Speaker 1: are going to go for it. You know, we're not surprised,

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Speaker 1: and now we have I love this graphic the TV

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Speaker 1: networks will throw up there on fourth down, they'll say,

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Speaker 1: the analytics say, and they'll be Ingreen go for it

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Speaker 1: like it's coming from the you know, the voice of God,

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Speaker 1: like that's the absolute right decision. When we all know

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Speaker 1: analytics is based on huge sample sizes, right You're playing

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Speaker 1: percentages is exactly what you're doing To me, I thought

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Speaker 1: Campbell got a little bit more of a pass. I'm

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Speaker 1: going for it because, as you said, that's part of

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Speaker 1: his personality.

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Speaker 2: They do play a very aggressive game.

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Speaker 1: It dovetails with the analytics, but I think given that

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Speaker 1: particular situation, you have to make the best call, the

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Speaker 1: best decision in terms of those elements that are in

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Speaker 1: play at that point, not the large sample size. I

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Speaker 1: think on the road, you got to tie that game,

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Speaker 1: and I've realized the field goal was not forty something yards.

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Speaker 2: I get it.

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Speaker 1: I thought right away, you've got to go for the tie,

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Speaker 1: put the points on the board, don't turn the ball

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Speaker 1: over if you don't get this first down. I thought,

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Speaker 1: specific to that situation, going for it was the right

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Speaker 1: thing to do. But I don't like the idea that

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Speaker 1: just because of quote unquote analytics say it's the right

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Speaker 1: thing to do, then you get a pass, because that

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Speaker 1: takes all thinking out of the equation.

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Speaker 3: Joe, absolutely, and again it's happened in our sport also,

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Speaker 3: where it'll be said, well, he's been doing it that

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Speaker 3: way all year, Right, we've been doing it that way

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Speaker 3: all year, Thus it's okay to do it again and

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Speaker 3: then not have it work out. That's exactly what had happened.

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Speaker 3: And it's, like I said, it's easier to accept when

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Speaker 3: it doesn't work because of that reason, I thought. I'm

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Speaker 3: pretty certain I heard after the game, I think it

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Speaker 3: was Jim Nansen said he was curious to see how

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Speaker 3: analytics would like frame this game or the different kind

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Speaker 3: of components of what was going to be said analytically

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Speaker 3: after this game. He was curious to hear that breakdown,

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Speaker 3: and I thought that was really curious. So a guy

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Speaker 3: with his ilk and all the years that he's been

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Speaker 3: doing this, all of a sudden he wants you hear

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Speaker 3: the analytical breakdown of the game. And I found that

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Speaker 3: curious because it's becoming to the point now where it's

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Speaker 3: like everything else, even the media has bought into this

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Speaker 3: so much, the analytical component that they're really kind of

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Speaker 3: almost recommending it or putting it forward right out front

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Speaker 3: because they I don't know if they really consider it

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Speaker 3: that import or they're just playing along. That's That's what

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Speaker 3: I'm having a hard time understanding.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the easy thing to do.

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Speaker 1: You know, you put your faith in the numbers, and

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Speaker 1: we all think mathematics can't be wrong. But you know,

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Speaker 1: analytics have to choose numbers to put into the equation

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Speaker 1: and actually have to put a formula together.

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Speaker 2: Who does that? Well, the analytics people do that. That's right,

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Speaker 2: and that reminds.

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Speaker 3: Me, Joe.

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Speaker 2: I'll give a little bit of a spoiler alert here.

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Speaker 1: You and Terry Franconas sat with me and Bob Costas

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Speaker 1: recently to look at review Game seven of the twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen World Series, and by the way, thanks for doing that.

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Speaker 2: It was awesome when that airs. People.

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Speaker 1: You really have to watch that, a deep dive into

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Speaker 1: the greatest game that I have seen in my forty

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Speaker 1: some odd years covered Major League Baseball, and just so

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00:14:13,878 --> 00:14:17,958
Speaker 1: many twists and turns, and one of them this conversation

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Speaker 1: brought me back to it, Joe, was when Terry Francona

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00:14:20,838 --> 00:14:23,438
Speaker 1: bunted early in that game with his number nine hit

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Speaker 1: of Roberto Perez. He's trailing in Game seven of the

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Speaker 1: World Series, and I went back and I checked, and

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00:14:29,038 --> 00:14:32,518
Speaker 1: he had not bunted with a position player trailing in

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Speaker 1: a game before the seventh inning. And I think this

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00:14:35,918 --> 00:14:38,358
Speaker 1: was the third inning, Game seven of the World Series,

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00:14:38,398 --> 00:14:41,158
Speaker 1: so it's something he had not done all year long.

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Speaker 1: He's essentially playing for one run when he's down one,

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Speaker 1: And obviously I asked Terry about in his thinking, and

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Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with the analytics, of course,

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Speaker 1: it was about the flow of the game. Actually, I

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Speaker 1: think he was down more than one. I think it

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Speaker 1: was multiple runs at that point. You might have been

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Speaker 1: up three, Joe, but he felt like to get his

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Speaker 1: team back into the game. He wanted a point on

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Speaker 1: the board. He also pointed out that his usual starting catcher,

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00:15:05,718 --> 00:15:08,438
Speaker 1: the better offensive hitter, Yan Gomes, was not in the lineup.

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Speaker 2: This is his number nine.

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Speaker 1: Hitter, backup catcher, Roberto Perez, And just the flow of

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Speaker 1: the game told Terry Francona, who has seen thousands of

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Speaker 1: games that is in his major league playing and managing career,

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Speaker 1: told him this is the right time to play for

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Speaker 1: one run. If you went strictly by an analytics chart,

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Speaker 1: you would never do that. And I thought that was

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Speaker 1: a great window into what a veteran baseball manager process

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Speaker 1: is at the time, rather than looking at a chart

328
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Speaker 1: at saying analytics say don't. But he did essentially what

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Speaker 1: his experience told him to do.

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Speaker 3: He wanted the runner at third base with the next

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Speaker 3: hitter coming up. Prez was the hitter and obviously on

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Speaker 3: his great catcher but not that good with the bat.

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Speaker 3: He definitely wanted that runner move ninety fit to facilitate

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Speaker 3: him scoring, which he did following that bunning him up

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Speaker 3: to third base. So yeah, that's the whole point. Every

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00:16:00,078 --> 00:16:05,598
Speaker 3: situation is different. You cannot manage every situation ideally, the scoreboard,

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00:16:05,678 --> 00:16:08,718
Speaker 3: the outs, the hitter, how's he doing, who's on deck,

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00:16:08,758 --> 00:16:11,318
Speaker 3: who's in the hole, how's this picture throwing? What are

339
00:16:11,318 --> 00:16:12,598
Speaker 3: they willing to do? They're gonna play the in field

340
00:16:12,598 --> 00:16:14,038
Speaker 3: then and play the in field back. I mean, there's

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Speaker 3: so many different things to consider, and the analytical component

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00:16:18,278 --> 00:16:21,638
Speaker 3: just treats everything the same as a cookie cutter to

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Speaker 3: a number, to analytically speaking, whereas it's not. It's this

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Speaker 3: human element that has so many variables, nuances, layers textures

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00:16:29,758 --> 00:16:32,438
Speaker 3: to it that has to be considered in a nanosecond.

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Speaker 3: And that's the best way I can describe it. And

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00:16:34,598 --> 00:16:37,958
Speaker 3: that's why Tito did what he did. And respectfully, I mean,

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00:16:37,998 --> 00:16:40,438
Speaker 3: of course, you know, we'll take the outright there. But

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Speaker 3: nevertheless he got what he wanted to and what he

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00:16:43,918 --> 00:16:46,398
Speaker 3: had spoken about, had already brought it up in that conversation,

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Speaker 3: is that our big thing was the score first, which

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00:16:48,878 --> 00:16:52,238
Speaker 3: we did first, that bat dex or dead center. But

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00:16:52,398 --> 00:16:54,558
Speaker 3: all of those things are being thought of and it's not.

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Speaker 3: You just can't. You just can't put in his big

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Speaker 3: bucket of analytics and feel and believe as though it's

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00:17:01,838 --> 00:17:05,998
Speaker 3: going to fit all sizes, all moments, aritectures, all situations.

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Speaker 1: So for you as a fan, when you're watching these

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00:17:08,558 --> 00:17:12,118
Speaker 1: games at home and you see that analytics says, go

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00:17:12,278 --> 00:17:15,678
Speaker 1: for it or punts or whatever it says, keep in

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00:17:15,718 --> 00:17:18,358
Speaker 1: mind that's just a rule of thumb. That's what the

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00:17:18,478 --> 00:17:22,958
Speaker 1: overall largest sample size, the larger percentage will tell you

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00:17:23,078 --> 00:17:25,078
Speaker 1: is the quote unquote right thing to do. But it

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00:17:25,118 --> 00:17:29,118
Speaker 1: does not weigh in the specific personnel, the weather, the

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00:17:29,158 --> 00:17:31,798
Speaker 1: momentum of the game that you know, all those things

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00:17:31,798 --> 00:17:35,358
Speaker 1: that are difficult to quantify are not formulated in there.

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Speaker 1: So when you see those numbers what the analytics suggests,

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Speaker 1: think of it as yeah.

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00:17:40,438 --> 00:17:43,318
Speaker 2: That's probably, you know, the likely thing.

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Speaker 1: To do, but it does not address the actual situation

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Speaker 1: at hand.

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00:17:48,478 --> 00:17:50,758
Speaker 2: Hey, a lot more baseball to talk about here.

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Speaker 1: I know we started with football, but obviously we got

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Speaker 1: into some parallels there. How about this, Would you give

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00:17:56,038 --> 00:17:58,678
Speaker 1: a player who never played a day in the major

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00:17:58,798 --> 00:18:03,238
Speaker 1: leagues almost thirty million dollars? Well, one team did, and

376
00:18:03,278 --> 00:18:17,118
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that, Joey. You might have caught the

377
00:18:17,158 --> 00:18:22,598
Speaker 1: news the Detroit Tigers signed young second baseman Colt Keith,

378
00:18:23,158 --> 00:18:26,478
Speaker 1: He's twenty two years old, to a six year contract

379
00:18:26,478 --> 00:18:30,838
Speaker 1: that guarantees him twenty eight point six million dollars. They

380
00:18:30,838 --> 00:18:34,438
Speaker 1: also get three option years, so they essentially bought out

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00:18:34,598 --> 00:18:37,518
Speaker 1: his first three years of free agency, besides all of

382
00:18:37,518 --> 00:18:41,838
Speaker 1: his arbitration years and his first six years of control.

383
00:18:42,198 --> 00:18:45,038
Speaker 1: So Colt Keith is someone who's going to compete for

384
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Speaker 1: the starting second base job for the Tigers. He is,

385
00:18:48,478 --> 00:18:51,478
Speaker 1: I think, probably more naturally a third baseman. But if

386
00:18:51,478 --> 00:18:54,078
Speaker 1: you want to comp to this young man, the best

387
00:18:54,118 --> 00:18:56,678
Speaker 1: one I came up with was Jason Kipness. He's a

388
00:18:56,718 --> 00:18:59,758
Speaker 1: bat first second baseman who's got a really advanced approach

389
00:18:59,798 --> 00:19:02,238
Speaker 1: at the plate. He's got popped. He's going to be

390
00:19:02,278 --> 00:19:05,718
Speaker 1: a good offensive player. He's going to be i'd say

391
00:19:05,798 --> 00:19:09,078
Speaker 1: adequate defensively and with the opportunity to get better. He's

392
00:19:09,078 --> 00:19:11,118
Speaker 1: a good athlete. He's a big guy, six ' two

393
00:19:11,118 --> 00:19:15,118
Speaker 1: sixty three about two twenty strong guy. But Joe, I

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00:19:15,158 --> 00:19:18,798
Speaker 1: love this signing for Detroit first of all, based on

395
00:19:18,838 --> 00:19:20,878
Speaker 1: where they are in the winning curve there. This team

396
00:19:20,958 --> 00:19:23,238
Speaker 1: is coming on. They've got a good core of young players.

397
00:19:23,278 --> 00:19:25,998
Speaker 1: It's a great message that you believe in your players.

398
00:19:26,278 --> 00:19:28,158
Speaker 1: You're not going to do this with everybody. You're going

399
00:19:28,198 --> 00:19:30,598
Speaker 1: to do this with someone you feel confident about. A

400
00:19:30,878 --> 00:19:33,278
Speaker 1: is going to be an everyday player at the big leagues,

401
00:19:33,878 --> 00:19:35,998
Speaker 1: and B he's got the kind of work ethic and

402
00:19:36,038 --> 00:19:38,958
Speaker 1: makeup that you can trust him that his motivation, his

403
00:19:39,078 --> 00:19:41,718
Speaker 1: desire is all that work ethic is not going to

404
00:19:41,798 --> 00:19:44,998
Speaker 1: change now that you've given him security. What's in it

405
00:19:45,038 --> 00:19:47,558
Speaker 1: for the Tigers? They save a lot of money. I'll

406
00:19:47,558 --> 00:19:50,118
Speaker 1: give you an example. My comp to him right now

407
00:19:50,158 --> 00:19:53,798
Speaker 1: in the big leagues is Glabor Torres, bat first, second baseman,

408
00:19:54,078 --> 00:19:57,078
Speaker 1: good player, He's made the All Star team twice in

409
00:19:57,118 --> 00:20:00,438
Speaker 1: his first six years. He's going to make about thirty

410
00:20:00,478 --> 00:20:04,438
Speaker 1: eight million dollars. So the Tigers are saving money. They're

411
00:20:04,478 --> 00:20:06,998
Speaker 1: saving ten to twelve million dollars. And you also factor

412
00:20:06,998 --> 00:20:09,358
Speaker 1: in the free agent years tours is free agent years

413
00:20:09,358 --> 00:20:12,598
Speaker 1: are value between I don't know, fifteen and twenty million dollars.

414
00:20:12,598 --> 00:20:15,478
Speaker 1: They're getting this kid at thirteen million free agent years.

415
00:20:15,918 --> 00:20:16,718
Speaker 2: So that's what you get.

416
00:20:16,798 --> 00:20:20,958
Speaker 1: When you get security, you give up maximum value that

417
00:20:21,038 --> 00:20:22,958
Speaker 1: you can earn by going year in, year out.

418
00:20:23,718 --> 00:20:25,958
Speaker 2: So Joe, we don't see this often.

419
00:20:26,118 --> 00:20:29,238
Speaker 1: He's the seventh player to get a contract without having

420
00:20:29,278 --> 00:20:31,838
Speaker 1: played a big leagues that is extended for this long.

421
00:20:31,918 --> 00:20:33,838
Speaker 1: Give me your thoughts as a guy, and I'll ask

422
00:20:33,878 --> 00:20:36,158
Speaker 1: you to put your scouting hat back on. When you've

423
00:20:36,158 --> 00:20:38,518
Speaker 1: got a young player twenty two years old, he's done

424
00:20:38,518 --> 00:20:40,718
Speaker 1: well in the minor leagues and you're projecting out what

425
00:20:40,798 --> 00:20:42,758
Speaker 1: he can do in the big leagues. You're betting this

426
00:20:42,758 --> 00:20:45,638
Speaker 1: guy's going to make it, not just be a contributor,

427
00:20:45,958 --> 00:20:48,358
Speaker 1: but an everyday player. So give me your thoughts on

428
00:20:48,438 --> 00:20:50,398
Speaker 1: giving that kind of security to a young player.

429
00:20:50,638 --> 00:20:52,478
Speaker 3: You've got to be certain, man, and I guess there

430
00:20:52,638 --> 00:20:55,278
Speaker 3: are certain players that you're going to feel that strongly about.

431
00:20:55,678 --> 00:20:58,238
Speaker 3: I'd have to be convinced about his makeup and his

432
00:20:58,278 --> 00:21:01,598
Speaker 3: accountability and that I'm not going to see anybody different

433
00:21:01,598 --> 00:21:03,598
Speaker 3: over the next couple of years because I could go

434
00:21:03,638 --> 00:21:06,838
Speaker 3: back to the minor leagues. We've talked about this had

435
00:21:06,838 --> 00:21:08,998
Speaker 3: Mark maclamourn. I'm just gonna use Fluffs as an example.

436
00:21:09,038 --> 00:21:11,918
Speaker 3: And you know, he's wonderful with great friends. But he

437
00:21:12,078 --> 00:21:14,158
Speaker 3: was doing really well as a nineteen year old with

438
00:21:14,198 --> 00:21:16,998
Speaker 3: the Angels coming up through the minor leagues. Gets hurt.

439
00:21:17,038 --> 00:21:18,758
Speaker 3: We sent him to Anaheim for a couple of weeks

440
00:21:18,758 --> 00:21:20,998
Speaker 3: to rehab. He comes back to Middland and all of

441
00:21:20,998 --> 00:21:22,878
Speaker 3: a sudden, I get a different guy. You know, all

442
00:21:22,878 --> 00:21:25,358
Speaker 3: of a sudden things have changed. He wasn't the same cat,

443
00:21:25,758 --> 00:21:28,758
Speaker 3: and things kind of went different regarding you know, this

444
00:21:28,918 --> 00:21:32,118
Speaker 3: work ethic and how he thought about himself and the motivation,

445
00:21:32,198 --> 00:21:36,118
Speaker 3: et cetera. Just was departed a bit, right. So I've

446
00:21:36,158 --> 00:21:37,838
Speaker 3: always had that in the back of my mind. But

447
00:21:38,038 --> 00:21:40,518
Speaker 3: I and again, I don't things have changed, times have changed,

448
00:21:40,798 --> 00:21:43,118
Speaker 3: and I don't know this kid. But I'm always a

449
00:21:43,158 --> 00:21:46,758
Speaker 3: little bit concerned. I'd have to be, like, really convinced

450
00:21:46,758 --> 00:21:49,478
Speaker 3: solidly that this is who this guy is. I'm not

451
00:21:49,478 --> 00:21:51,998
Speaker 3: going to see anybody different. After a little bit of success,

452
00:21:52,038 --> 00:21:54,278
Speaker 3: I got to be guaranteed of his work ethic, which

453
00:21:54,318 --> 00:21:56,758
Speaker 3: I'm sure they are. I know Scotti Harris really well

454
00:21:57,198 --> 00:21:59,358
Speaker 3: with the taggers, and I could absolutely see that, AJ,

455
00:21:59,558 --> 00:22:01,998
Speaker 3: these guys are really good. So I would have to

456
00:22:02,038 --> 00:22:03,758
Speaker 3: be convinced on that. I think, you know, when it

457
00:22:03,798 --> 00:22:07,078
Speaker 3: come down to his abilities as tools, that would be obvious. Okay, Yeah,

458
00:22:07,118 --> 00:22:10,638
Speaker 3: he's got a great swing, he shows you, got great

459
00:22:10,678 --> 00:22:14,718
Speaker 3: plate discipline, he's got the power potential that I'm looking for.

460
00:22:14,838 --> 00:22:16,638
Speaker 3: He knows what to do with two strikes, you know,

461
00:22:16,718 --> 00:22:19,478
Speaker 3: so how to make adjustments during that bat, all that stuff.

462
00:22:19,518 --> 00:22:21,838
Speaker 3: Now defensively, I'm here what you're saying there, and I

463
00:22:21,878 --> 00:22:24,878
Speaker 3: would have to believe just dor repetition and again with

464
00:22:25,118 --> 00:22:29,278
Speaker 3: getting some good information from good infield coach, that's going

465
00:22:29,358 --> 00:22:32,478
Speaker 3: to naturally just improve. I don't even know what his

466
00:22:32,598 --> 00:22:35,478
Speaker 3: arm looks like, so it would just be so much

467
00:22:35,478 --> 00:22:37,318
Speaker 3: of that to me is about his makeup and how

468
00:22:37,358 --> 00:22:41,118
Speaker 3: I perceive his personality to be and if that was firm,

469
00:22:41,198 --> 00:22:45,078
Speaker 3: because that's the harder part to ascertain. The easier part

470
00:22:45,118 --> 00:22:48,158
Speaker 3: again is the tools. The tools will be obvious, and

471
00:22:48,238 --> 00:22:51,638
Speaker 3: if I could be convinced that he matches up on

472
00:22:51,758 --> 00:22:55,278
Speaker 3: the mental tools, I'd probably be I would be all

473
00:22:55,278 --> 00:22:55,718
Speaker 3: in on that.

474
00:22:56,278 --> 00:22:59,158
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you there, and also like you you know,

475
00:22:59,478 --> 00:23:01,438
Speaker 1: I put a lot of trust in the Scottie Harris

476
00:23:01,478 --> 00:23:03,638
Speaker 1: and aj Hinch to make that decision. And his kid's

477
00:23:03,638 --> 00:23:05,518
Speaker 1: been in their minor league system for what three or

478
00:23:05,558 --> 00:23:09,158
Speaker 1: four years. They know the player well, they know his

479
00:23:09,198 --> 00:23:13,318
Speaker 1: work ethic. You don't make this blindly just on talent alone,

480
00:23:13,398 --> 00:23:15,238
Speaker 1: this kind of commitment. So I'm with you, and in

481
00:23:15,278 --> 00:23:17,918
Speaker 1: this case, I will trust that the team knows the

482
00:23:17,918 --> 00:23:20,678
Speaker 1: player better than all of us two and they wouldn't

483
00:23:20,718 --> 00:23:23,638
Speaker 1: be reaching out like this unless they were convinced that

484
00:23:23,758 --> 00:23:25,438
Speaker 1: he's the right guy to make this decision on.

485
00:23:25,598 --> 00:23:26,198
Speaker 2: As far as the.

486
00:23:26,158 --> 00:23:28,438
Speaker 1: Talent goes, he's played two hundred and thirty nine games

487
00:23:28,478 --> 00:23:29,878
Speaker 1: in the miners and against the miners.

488
00:23:29,918 --> 00:23:31,198
Speaker 2: But this is what we have to go by.

489
00:23:31,718 --> 00:23:35,798
Speaker 1: His slash line is three hundred three eighty two five twelve.

490
00:23:36,158 --> 00:23:38,678
Speaker 1: That's pretty impressive. I mean that's an ops of eight

491
00:23:38,878 --> 00:23:42,358
Speaker 1: ninety four. The swing and miss, the strikeout percentage is

492
00:23:42,398 --> 00:23:46,198
Speaker 1: about average. It's not poor, it's not exceptional. As far

493
00:23:46,198 --> 00:23:48,158
Speaker 1: as putting the ball play, it's about average, not bad.

494
00:23:48,198 --> 00:23:51,438
Speaker 1: But an eight ninety four OPS. Compare that to I

495
00:23:51,518 --> 00:23:54,438
Speaker 1: mentioned Labor Torres. Torres was seven eighty four in the

496
00:23:54,438 --> 00:23:58,478
Speaker 1: minor leagues. Nolan Gorman another guy you can compare him

497
00:23:58,478 --> 00:24:00,278
Speaker 1: to at the Cardinals, who's a big swing and miss

498
00:24:00,318 --> 00:24:03,638
Speaker 1: guy with a little more power. Eight thirty four ops.

499
00:24:03,678 --> 00:24:06,958
Speaker 1: That's below what Keith has put up. And actually keith

500
00:24:06,998 --> 00:24:10,118
Speaker 1: Is slugging percentage is higher. And I mentioned Jason Kipness

501
00:24:10,478 --> 00:24:14,438
Speaker 1: eight sixty three ops. It's very comparable to what Keith

502
00:24:14,478 --> 00:24:16,318
Speaker 1: has put up. So the numbers are there that this

503
00:24:16,398 --> 00:24:19,398
Speaker 1: guy's going to produce in the big leagues. Now, if

504
00:24:19,438 --> 00:24:21,598
Speaker 1: you're a naysayer, you're gonna say, well, wait a second.

505
00:24:21,718 --> 00:24:25,918
Speaker 1: Remember when the Phillies signed Scott Kingrey six years, twenty

506
00:24:25,918 --> 00:24:29,358
Speaker 1: four million dollars. Hey, remember when the Mariners signed Evan White,

507
00:24:29,398 --> 00:24:32,518
Speaker 1: the first baseman, six years, twenty four million dollars. Had

508
00:24:32,558 --> 00:24:35,718
Speaker 1: those workout And going back a little farther, John Singleton

509
00:24:35,798 --> 00:24:38,518
Speaker 1: with the Astros got ten million dollars for five years.

510
00:24:38,558 --> 00:24:41,118
Speaker 1: It was a bust. Here's my take on those, Joe,

511
00:24:41,198 --> 00:24:44,478
Speaker 1: It does happen. You know, you overvaluate your old players.

512
00:24:45,798 --> 00:24:47,718
Speaker 1: First of all, these guys haven't put up the kind

513
00:24:47,758 --> 00:24:50,518
Speaker 1: of production that Keith has in the minor leagues. But also,

514
00:24:50,598 --> 00:24:53,118
Speaker 1: even if you're wrong, for a club twenty four million

515
00:24:53,158 --> 00:24:55,958
Speaker 1: dollars over six years is not going to break your franchise.

516
00:24:56,318 --> 00:24:58,438
Speaker 1: To me, it's the whole risk reward here, Joe, that

517
00:24:58,758 --> 00:25:01,398
Speaker 1: you can make this investment in the young player. You

518
00:25:01,438 --> 00:25:03,558
Speaker 1: can give him security, you can believe in the player,

519
00:25:04,038 --> 00:25:06,918
Speaker 1: and if it doesn't work out, it's not preventing you

520
00:25:06,998 --> 00:25:09,518
Speaker 1: from doing other things. I think the ability to give

521
00:25:09,518 --> 00:25:11,958
Speaker 1: the player of security, he doesn't have to worry about

522
00:25:11,998 --> 00:25:14,238
Speaker 1: his service time clock, he doesn't have to worry about

523
00:25:14,238 --> 00:25:15,878
Speaker 1: his value on a year to year basis.

524
00:25:15,998 --> 00:25:17,038
Speaker 2: Just go out there and play.

525
00:25:17,158 --> 00:25:19,358
Speaker 1: The message you send to your other minor league players

526
00:25:19,398 --> 00:25:21,918
Speaker 1: that we take care of our own. I think that's

527
00:25:21,958 --> 00:25:24,918
Speaker 1: all worth the quote unquote risk of handing out twenty

528
00:25:24,918 --> 00:25:26,478
Speaker 1: four million dollars over six years.

529
00:25:26,638 --> 00:25:28,478
Speaker 3: The two of those gentlemen you talk about White and

530
00:25:28,598 --> 00:25:31,078
Speaker 3: is it Singleton or Singletary with the Houston a killer.

531
00:25:30,918 --> 00:25:33,718
Speaker 2: Singleton yeah, John Singleton, yeah yeah.

532
00:25:33,278 --> 00:25:35,718
Speaker 3: Both first basemen. You know, these guys just absolutely have

533
00:25:35,798 --> 00:25:39,478
Speaker 3: to hit to be successful, right, and you're going to

534
00:25:39,518 --> 00:25:41,398
Speaker 3: pay for the bat. I mean, they're not gonna give

535
00:25:41,758 --> 00:25:44,278
Speaker 3: Detroit's not gonna give the kid that much money if

536
00:25:44,318 --> 00:25:46,518
Speaker 3: they did not think he was gonna hit. Your pain

537
00:25:46,878 --> 00:25:48,958
Speaker 3: in today's game, you're paying for the bat first, they're

538
00:25:48,958 --> 00:25:51,358
Speaker 3: not gonna pay because he's gonna be a great defensive

539
00:25:51,398 --> 00:25:54,438
Speaker 3: second basement. So that's always the risk there. And again

540
00:25:54,518 --> 00:25:57,238
Speaker 3: never having seen him swing, now Singleton Man, when he

541
00:25:57,318 --> 00:26:00,198
Speaker 3: first showed up, boy that was good and White. White

542
00:26:00,198 --> 00:26:01,718
Speaker 3: to me was a wizard with the glove, and he

543
00:26:01,798 --> 00:26:04,398
Speaker 3: was playing first base. He was a great la I mean,

544
00:26:04,438 --> 00:26:06,558
Speaker 3: he made plays against this all you of those unreal

545
00:26:06,918 --> 00:26:09,118
Speaker 3: So there's all of these things they consider. And again,

546
00:26:09,118 --> 00:26:10,318
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you brought it up

547
00:26:10,798 --> 00:26:13,918
Speaker 3: to me, the most important factor there is knowing the

548
00:26:13,958 --> 00:26:17,158
Speaker 3: guy and your player and all the coaches that have

549
00:26:17,238 --> 00:26:20,558
Speaker 3: come in contact with him. And you know Garko, Ryan

550
00:26:20,598 --> 00:26:23,198
Speaker 3: gark was he had been in charge of the minor

551
00:26:23,278 --> 00:26:25,398
Speaker 3: league system and Gark's pretty good at this stuff too.

552
00:26:25,878 --> 00:26:29,998
Speaker 3: So all these evaluations are there, everybody's on board, and

553
00:26:30,038 --> 00:26:32,838
Speaker 3: when everybody's on board like that, it's so much easier

554
00:26:33,198 --> 00:26:35,238
Speaker 3: to go ahead and make a decision like this. And

555
00:26:35,238 --> 00:26:37,918
Speaker 3: then we said something there that I think is really important.

556
00:26:38,198 --> 00:26:40,238
Speaker 3: The example that it sets for the rest of the group,

557
00:26:40,318 --> 00:26:44,678
Speaker 3: the other young Detroit players coming on up and in

558
00:26:44,718 --> 00:26:47,798
Speaker 3: the future, the loyalty that you may be able to

559
00:26:47,838 --> 00:26:50,918
Speaker 3: purchase by doing something like that. I've always I wrote

560
00:26:50,918 --> 00:26:53,358
Speaker 3: a paper in nineteen eighty something about something like that

561
00:26:53,398 --> 00:26:56,318
Speaker 3: where ownership I thought, should pay more attention to minor

562
00:26:56,398 --> 00:26:58,238
Speaker 3: league players and actually go out and see minor league

563
00:26:58,278 --> 00:27:01,838
Speaker 3: teams during the course of a season in order to

564
00:27:01,838 --> 00:27:06,598
Speaker 3: buy some kind of loyalty. Potentially it might be impossible anymore,

565
00:27:06,598 --> 00:27:10,838
Speaker 3: but I mean, I like the kid that that matters too.

566
00:27:11,838 --> 00:27:14,798
Speaker 3: If the kid that recognizes, hey, these guys had this

567
00:27:14,878 --> 00:27:17,958
Speaker 3: kind of trust in me. Shoot, the owner showed up

568
00:27:17,998 --> 00:27:20,878
Speaker 3: in some a ball town in the middle of June

569
00:27:20,918 --> 00:27:22,558
Speaker 3: one year and he came out and talked to all

570
00:27:22,598 --> 00:27:24,918
Speaker 3: of us, and he came up to me specifically. Doesn't

571
00:27:24,958 --> 00:27:28,078
Speaker 3: that have some kind of cachet eventually or is it

572
00:27:28,198 --> 00:27:31,118
Speaker 3: just totally about money and the way the thing is

573
00:27:31,158 --> 00:27:34,438
Speaker 3: constructed now? But that matters. I want to believe that

574
00:27:34,438 --> 00:27:37,998
Speaker 3: that matters. That this kid's got to feel the loyalty

575
00:27:38,438 --> 00:27:40,878
Speaker 3: and the confidence that they have in him. At some

576
00:27:40,958 --> 00:27:42,278
Speaker 3: point that's got to pay off.

577
00:27:42,358 --> 00:27:43,158
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you.

578
00:27:43,198 --> 00:27:45,398
Speaker 1: And by the way, you're right, Evan White, defensive skills

579
00:27:45,438 --> 00:27:47,918
Speaker 1: are tremendous, but at first base man you got to

580
00:27:47,958 --> 00:27:50,158
Speaker 1: bring the stick. Yeah, it doesn't matter how well you

581
00:27:50,198 --> 00:27:52,718
Speaker 1: can pick it over there, correct, And it's a great

582
00:27:52,718 --> 00:27:55,958
Speaker 1: point about and I said, I think Joe, especially for Detroit,

583
00:27:56,078 --> 00:27:58,318
Speaker 1: I mean, seventh straight losing seasons, they had a really

584
00:27:58,398 --> 00:28:00,198
Speaker 1: nice finish to the year last year, and there are

585
00:28:00,278 --> 00:28:02,398
Speaker 1: to me a dark horse candidate to actually win the

586
00:28:02,438 --> 00:28:05,638
Speaker 1: American League Central this year. I think that highly of

587
00:28:05,678 --> 00:28:07,878
Speaker 1: what Scotty Harris and aj Hinch are doing there.

588
00:28:08,198 --> 00:28:11,158
Speaker 2: They've got a good, really good core of young players.

589
00:28:11,238 --> 00:28:14,398
Speaker 1: Now when you think about you know, Keith, we just

590
00:28:14,478 --> 00:28:17,638
Speaker 1: mentioned him, Jase Young, Josh Young's brother is probably going

591
00:28:17,678 --> 00:28:19,758
Speaker 1: to be in big leagues this year. Another infielder hits

592
00:28:19,838 --> 00:28:22,958
Speaker 1: left handed. You got, of course Riley Green, the former

593
00:28:23,038 --> 00:28:26,998
Speaker 1: number one pick. You've got a Carpenter, You've got Parker Meadows.

594
00:28:27,438 --> 00:28:31,238
Speaker 1: They've got this core jo of young left handed position

595
00:28:31,438 --> 00:28:34,558
Speaker 1: players who are either ready right now or just on

596
00:28:34,598 --> 00:28:37,238
Speaker 1: the doorstep of being ready. And it really reminds me

597
00:28:37,318 --> 00:28:39,958
Speaker 1: a lot of what Arizona and Baltimore have done in

598
00:28:39,958 --> 00:28:42,118
Speaker 1: the last couple of years. When you look at how

599
00:28:42,118 --> 00:28:44,358
Speaker 1: those teams turned it around, made it in the postseason

600
00:28:44,438 --> 00:28:46,318
Speaker 1: last year, each of them Arizona.

601
00:28:45,958 --> 00:28:46,838
Speaker 2: To the World Series.

602
00:28:47,278 --> 00:28:51,478
Speaker 1: They were loaded with good young left handed hitters, and

603
00:28:51,518 --> 00:28:53,238
Speaker 1: if you want to have an imbalance on your team.

604
00:28:53,278 --> 00:28:55,838
Speaker 1: I've always thought it's much better to have more lefties

605
00:28:55,878 --> 00:28:58,838
Speaker 1: than righties, just because the preponderance of right handed pitching.

606
00:28:59,318 --> 00:29:01,998
Speaker 1: And I kind of like what Detroit is building here

607
00:29:02,118 --> 00:29:05,478
Speaker 1: would not surprise me if they're on the you know this,

608
00:29:05,478 --> 00:29:09,518
Speaker 1: this really quick trajectory now to get into postseason play,

609
00:29:09,558 --> 00:29:10,958
Speaker 1: if not this year, the next year.

610
00:29:11,158 --> 00:29:13,998
Speaker 3: And sometimes winning within the city is contagious. Right. That's

611
00:29:14,078 --> 00:29:18,278
Speaker 3: right right across the street from from Camerica is Ford Field,

612
00:29:18,318 --> 00:29:20,278
Speaker 3: where the Lions play. And then you got the Tigers

613
00:29:20,318 --> 00:29:21,278
Speaker 3: right across the street.

614
00:29:21,318 --> 00:29:24,358
Speaker 1: Hey, Michigan did pretty well this year in college football.

615
00:29:24,038 --> 00:29:26,918
Speaker 3: And Michigan wasn't that bad. You're right, how about the

616
00:29:26,918 --> 00:29:28,838
Speaker 3: hockey team. I don't even know what's going on with

617
00:29:28,878 --> 00:29:32,478
Speaker 3: the Red Wings, but sometimes that happens cities. Cities catch

618
00:29:32,518 --> 00:29:35,038
Speaker 3: on fire athletically with their sports teams, and all of

619
00:29:35,078 --> 00:29:37,798
Speaker 3: a sudden it becomes a contagion. I mean, that's what

620
00:29:38,078 --> 00:29:40,398
Speaker 3: you're just almost. You're talking about the Tigers, and I'm

621
00:29:40,398 --> 00:29:43,238
Speaker 3: thinking about Lions right there, and I think, exactly, you

622
00:29:43,238 --> 00:29:45,958
Speaker 3: know how they got to where they've gotten to so quickly,

623
00:29:46,478 --> 00:29:49,638
Speaker 3: And there is that that that epiphany. That moment's almost

624
00:29:49,638 --> 00:29:51,958
Speaker 3: like the point where Detroit might struggle a bit early

625
00:29:51,998 --> 00:29:54,478
Speaker 3: in the season next year, but by the middle and

626
00:29:54,598 --> 00:29:56,638
Speaker 3: end of that season they should pretty much get their

627
00:29:56,678 --> 00:29:59,718
Speaker 3: act together. Based on all these players you're talking about,

628
00:30:00,038 --> 00:30:03,078
Speaker 3: they have been through their struggles somewhat. They know who

629
00:30:03,078 --> 00:30:06,918
Speaker 3: they are right now. They their identity, their personal philosophy, philosophy,

630
00:30:06,958 --> 00:30:08,598
Speaker 3: and you'd like to believe that at some point it's

631
00:30:08,638 --> 00:30:12,078
Speaker 3: going to take roots. So that's I'm always aware of that.

632
00:30:12,078 --> 00:30:15,438
Speaker 3: I always look at that stuff, you know, Baltimore Orioles

633
00:30:15,438 --> 00:30:19,038
Speaker 3: this year, Baltimore Ravens. Of course, too bad that Baltimore

634
00:30:19,038 --> 00:30:21,758
Speaker 3: Bullets still aren't there in that little arena downtown Baltimore.

635
00:30:22,078 --> 00:30:25,918
Speaker 3: But all this stuff, somehow it happens. It just happens

636
00:30:25,918 --> 00:30:26,238
Speaker 3: that way.

637
00:30:26,358 --> 00:30:28,678
Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me back in nineteen sixty nine with

638
00:30:28,798 --> 00:30:30,798
Speaker 1: the Mets, the Jets, and the Knicks.

639
00:30:31,038 --> 00:30:34,318
Speaker 2: That's right, called back aways for that ancient history.

640
00:30:34,398 --> 00:30:37,878
Speaker 3: But it happens against Bullets, Bullets, Colts and the what

641
00:30:38,198 --> 00:30:40,718
Speaker 3: am I missing? Orioles, The Oriols, right, so they beat

642
00:30:40,758 --> 00:30:41,558
Speaker 3: them in all three.

643
00:30:42,198 --> 00:30:44,838
Speaker 1: It's probably their young listeners are like who Bullets, who

644
00:30:44,878 --> 00:30:45,838
Speaker 1: are the Bullets.

645
00:30:45,518 --> 00:30:50,078
Speaker 3: The Baltimore Earl, the Pro Monroe folks, Bobby dan Ridge,

646
00:30:50,358 --> 00:30:53,318
Speaker 3: Jack Marin. But that was good stuff, really good.

647
00:30:53,758 --> 00:30:55,878
Speaker 2: Hey. That reminds me of the the Orioles.

648
00:30:56,078 --> 00:30:58,278
Speaker 1: We talked about the Orioles with their the way they've

649
00:30:58,318 --> 00:31:00,598
Speaker 1: come on, your buddy Brandon Hyde, taking them to the

650
00:31:00,638 --> 00:31:03,158
Speaker 1: best record of the American League last year, hadn't been

651
00:31:03,198 --> 00:31:05,998
Speaker 1: swept all regular season and that's how.

652
00:31:05,878 --> 00:31:08,238
Speaker 2: They wound out, went out in the postseason to Texas.

653
00:31:08,278 --> 00:31:10,678
Speaker 1: But Joe, I look at that team and you talk

654
00:31:10,718 --> 00:31:11,998
Speaker 1: about locking guys up.

655
00:31:12,278 --> 00:31:14,638
Speaker 2: First of all, let me ask you this, it's a

656
00:31:14,718 --> 00:31:15,358
Speaker 2: quick question.

657
00:31:15,758 --> 00:31:18,558
Speaker 1: Locking up a position player at that age you probably

658
00:31:18,638 --> 00:31:20,678
Speaker 1: just can't do it right because of the injury factory.

659
00:31:20,918 --> 00:31:23,358
Speaker 1: I mean talking about pitcher rather than a position player.

660
00:31:23,598 --> 00:31:25,918
Speaker 3: Yeah, with the pitcher, it's tough. It is tough. It's

661
00:31:25,998 --> 00:31:29,718
Speaker 3: a lot easier to open up your check book if

662
00:31:29,758 --> 00:31:33,558
Speaker 3: the pay to the order two is with their position

663
00:31:33,598 --> 00:31:34,438
Speaker 3: player over a pitcher.

664
00:31:34,518 --> 00:31:36,038
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I agree with that. Okay.

665
00:31:36,038 --> 00:31:37,878
Speaker 1: So I look at the Baltimore Orioles and to me,

666
00:31:37,958 --> 00:31:41,518
Speaker 1: they have potentially, if not right now, four franchise players.

667
00:31:41,998 --> 00:31:44,238
Speaker 2: Grayson Rodriguez, he's got a great arm.

668
00:31:44,358 --> 00:31:47,438
Speaker 1: Personally, I'm a little concerned about his mechanics, but this

669
00:31:47,558 --> 00:31:50,598
Speaker 1: kid has got terrific stuff, really good makeup. Had to

670
00:31:50,758 --> 00:31:53,238
Speaker 1: really breakout year last year, especially in the second half

671
00:31:53,278 --> 00:31:56,238
Speaker 1: of the season. Of course, you've got Attlee Rushman behind

672
00:31:56,238 --> 00:31:58,758
Speaker 1: the plate, You've got Gunner Henderson, the rookie of the year,

673
00:31:58,758 --> 00:32:02,118
Speaker 1: and now you have Jackson Holiday coming on. So Brandon's

674
00:32:02,118 --> 00:32:04,758
Speaker 1: got a nice problem to have. He probably pushes Gunner

675
00:32:04,838 --> 00:32:07,118
Speaker 1: to third and Holiday at short in the perfect world,

676
00:32:07,118 --> 00:32:09,678
Speaker 1: but both the great athletes can go back and forth

677
00:32:09,918 --> 00:32:11,838
Speaker 1: if they have to. You know, my question is, you've

678
00:32:11,838 --> 00:32:14,678
Speaker 1: heard the Baltimore Orioles. You got the foundations here for

679
00:32:14,718 --> 00:32:16,638
Speaker 1: these guys to play it together for a long time,

680
00:32:17,118 --> 00:32:19,438
Speaker 1: and with position players, let's say Grayson out of the

681
00:32:19,478 --> 00:32:22,198
Speaker 1: equation for a minute. With position players, these guys are

682
00:32:22,358 --> 00:32:25,318
Speaker 1: so good, Joe, and in the cases of Rushman and Henderson,

683
00:32:25,318 --> 00:32:26,918
Speaker 1: you've seen it on the big league level.

684
00:32:27,438 --> 00:32:29,638
Speaker 2: Man, don't go year to year with these guys.

685
00:32:29,758 --> 00:32:33,358
Speaker 1: You know, make sure your fans can buy a jersey

686
00:32:33,398 --> 00:32:35,558
Speaker 1: one of these guys and realize he's not gonna wind

687
00:32:35,638 --> 00:32:37,678
Speaker 1: up playing for the Yankees or the Dodgers, but he's

688
00:32:37,678 --> 00:32:41,038
Speaker 1: gonna be the next Cal Ripken commit to these guys,

689
00:32:41,078 --> 00:32:43,238
Speaker 1: send that message that we talked about to the rest

690
00:32:43,238 --> 00:32:44,958
Speaker 1: of the people, not just on the major league team,

691
00:32:44,958 --> 00:32:46,678
Speaker 1: but on the minor league teams, that you take care

692
00:32:46,718 --> 00:32:49,318
Speaker 1: of your own, that you're building something long term. I

693
00:32:49,318 --> 00:32:52,078
Speaker 1: think this is a real opportunity for the Orioles, who,

694
00:32:52,158 --> 00:32:54,358
Speaker 1: let's face it, they don't go out there and sign

695
00:32:54,398 --> 00:32:55,198
Speaker 1: big free agents.

696
00:32:55,238 --> 00:32:58,438
Speaker 2: They just don't. They don't make long term commitments.

697
00:32:58,678 --> 00:33:02,918
Speaker 1: This is an opportunity now to believe in the right guys,

698
00:33:02,958 --> 00:33:04,998
Speaker 1: because I think they have the right guys there. I

699
00:33:04,998 --> 00:33:07,878
Speaker 1: wouldn't worry about giving extensions to any of those guys.

700
00:33:08,158 --> 00:33:10,198
Speaker 3: Yeah. I went through the same thing with the Cubbies too, right.

701
00:33:10,318 --> 00:33:13,158
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, we win a World Series actually,

702
00:33:13,358 --> 00:33:15,638
Speaker 3: and we still had a possibly what the youngest team

703
00:33:15,638 --> 00:33:18,638
Speaker 3: that ever won the World Series average age wise, But

704
00:33:18,678 --> 00:33:21,918
Speaker 3: then again that group was not kept together. So I again,

705
00:33:21,958 --> 00:33:24,198
Speaker 3: I don't even know when it comes to the evaluations

706
00:33:24,198 --> 00:33:26,238
Speaker 3: of front offices and how they look at things like this,

707
00:33:26,758 --> 00:33:28,518
Speaker 3: that would be a better question for them to answer

708
00:33:28,558 --> 00:33:32,558
Speaker 3: them for me, because that group than the Cubs, we

709
00:33:32,638 --> 00:33:34,198
Speaker 3: thought that that group was going to be together for

710
00:33:34,198 --> 00:33:36,038
Speaker 3: a long long time, and then of course it was not.

711
00:33:36,278 --> 00:33:37,318
Speaker 2: Well. I know this, Joe.

712
00:33:37,358 --> 00:33:40,478
Speaker 1: I know that THEO made efforts to get every one

713
00:33:40,518 --> 00:33:41,598
Speaker 1: of those guys locked up.

714
00:33:41,598 --> 00:33:45,198
Speaker 2: We were talking by Rizzo, Bryant Schwerber.

715
00:33:45,558 --> 00:33:48,158
Speaker 1: They could never get it done, and in some cases,

716
00:33:48,158 --> 00:33:50,558
Speaker 1: if not all of them, they didn't do so well

717
00:33:50,638 --> 00:33:53,158
Speaker 1: on the open market once they got there afterwards. Yeah,

718
00:33:53,198 --> 00:33:55,758
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody thinks the grass is always greener, but

719
00:33:56,078 --> 00:33:58,918
Speaker 1: it's not because THEO and that crew did not want

720
00:33:58,958 --> 00:34:01,678
Speaker 1: to keep those guys around. It just never worked out.

721
00:34:01,718 --> 00:34:03,558
Speaker 1: And you're right, those are the type of players you

722
00:34:03,558 --> 00:34:04,518
Speaker 1: do want lock up.

723
00:34:04,758 --> 00:34:06,878
Speaker 3: Well, that's my point I mean, is Okay, we weren't.

724
00:34:07,158 --> 00:34:08,998
Speaker 3: They weren't able. The Cubs weren't able to lock these

725
00:34:09,038 --> 00:34:11,638
Speaker 3: guys up for a variety of different reasons. The oriole

726
00:34:11,638 --> 00:34:13,438
Speaker 3: players that you've just described, are they going to be

727
00:34:13,478 --> 00:34:15,278
Speaker 3: any different? Do they want to be locked up? Do

728
00:34:15,398 --> 00:34:17,918
Speaker 3: they want to spread their wings? Eventually? How does that

729
00:34:17,958 --> 00:34:20,638
Speaker 3: all play out in the long term, Because when I

730
00:34:20,718 --> 00:34:22,598
Speaker 3: was there with the Cubbies, I mean, everybody's talking about

731
00:34:22,598 --> 00:34:25,838
Speaker 3: this is a dynastic situation, and of course it never

732
00:34:25,878 --> 00:34:28,118
Speaker 3: turned out to be that. So we're looking at the

733
00:34:28,118 --> 00:34:30,398
Speaker 3: Ools almost through the same lens that we looked at

734
00:34:30,438 --> 00:34:33,438
Speaker 3: the Cubs at that particular time, and eventually, like you said,

735
00:34:33,478 --> 00:34:38,318
Speaker 3: these guys went different places with the varied degrees of success.

736
00:34:38,398 --> 00:34:41,638
Speaker 3: So yeah, listen, I get it. I understand it. But

737
00:34:41,678 --> 00:34:43,958
Speaker 3: again I'm always in the back of my mind for

738
00:34:44,238 --> 00:34:46,998
Speaker 3: as much as I see a young player and think

739
00:34:46,998 --> 00:34:50,678
Speaker 3: he will never change, sometimes they do. So i'd have

740
00:34:50,758 --> 00:34:53,918
Speaker 3: to be boots underground inside the doors in the clubhouse

741
00:34:53,958 --> 00:34:56,238
Speaker 3: talking to these guys to give you a better opinion

742
00:34:56,278 --> 00:34:59,398
Speaker 3: on that, because I have seen guys change that you

743
00:34:59,518 --> 00:35:00,878
Speaker 3: thought would never change.

744
00:35:01,158 --> 00:35:02,758
Speaker 2: It happens. They're human beings.

745
00:35:02,798 --> 00:35:04,918
Speaker 1: And the other thing I'll add to that, Joe, is

746
00:35:04,958 --> 00:35:07,758
Speaker 1: that because a player is good at a young age,

747
00:35:08,238 --> 00:35:10,238
Speaker 1: and I hear this all the time, and it's just

748
00:35:10,278 --> 00:35:13,798
Speaker 1: not true. People will say, well, he's going to get better, right,

749
00:35:13,878 --> 00:35:16,918
Speaker 1: you know what happens when he gets better. It just

750
00:35:17,038 --> 00:35:19,798
Speaker 1: does not work that way, folks. Sometimes you're at your

751
00:35:19,838 --> 00:35:23,038
Speaker 1: peak at a young age. I remember when Dwight Gooden

752
00:35:23,278 --> 00:35:26,558
Speaker 1: set the world on fire at nineteen and twenty years

753
00:35:26,598 --> 00:35:30,038
Speaker 1: old in nineteen eighty four, nineteen eighty five, you know,

754
00:35:30,118 --> 00:35:32,598
Speaker 1: and people will say, my goodness, what is this guy

755
00:35:32,678 --> 00:35:35,438
Speaker 1: gonna be when he gets experience under his belt? And

756
00:35:35,478 --> 00:35:39,158
Speaker 1: he's twenty seven, twenty eight, the typical prime of a career.

757
00:35:39,678 --> 00:35:41,998
Speaker 1: And it was the late great Bob Gibson who said,

758
00:35:42,038 --> 00:35:44,118
Speaker 1: you know what, this may be as good as he

759
00:35:44,158 --> 00:35:46,158
Speaker 1: ever is. You never know, it's hard to be better

760
00:35:46,158 --> 00:35:48,558
Speaker 1: than Dwight Gooden was in nineteen eighty five, first of all,

761
00:35:49,238 --> 00:35:52,558
Speaker 1: and it was true. I mean, he had this youthfulness,

762
00:35:52,678 --> 00:35:56,478
Speaker 1: this suppleness to his delivery. The ball just exploded out

763
00:35:56,478 --> 00:35:58,438
Speaker 1: of his hand. Everything lined up at the right time.

764
00:35:58,838 --> 00:36:00,918
Speaker 1: Of course, he had some other problems issues off the

765
00:36:00,958 --> 00:36:04,438
Speaker 1: field later on. But don't fall into the track people

766
00:36:04,598 --> 00:36:07,118
Speaker 1: thinking just because a guy is good at twenty one

767
00:36:07,158 --> 00:36:09,358
Speaker 1: and twenty two, my goodness, I can't wait till he's

768
00:36:09,358 --> 00:36:11,318
Speaker 1: twenty eight, twenty nine. He's going to be even better.

769
00:36:11,958 --> 00:36:15,358
Speaker 1: Is not a linear growth path in Major League Baseball.

770
00:36:15,598 --> 00:36:18,438
Speaker 3: And conversely, the guy that has not shown so well

771
00:36:18,478 --> 00:36:20,558
Speaker 3: early on. I don't know how many times I've had

772
00:36:20,558 --> 00:36:24,718
Speaker 3: the conversation within meetings that sometimes you're the lucky team

773
00:36:24,758 --> 00:36:26,678
Speaker 3: to be the second or even the third team to

774
00:36:26,758 --> 00:36:29,318
Speaker 3: get a particular player. And the classic example for me

775
00:36:29,398 --> 00:36:32,358
Speaker 3: was always Carlos Penna with the Rays. When we got him,

776
00:36:32,398 --> 00:36:34,838
Speaker 3: he had been with the Open A's and the Detroit

777
00:36:34,958 --> 00:36:38,038
Speaker 3: Tigris to that point. And I remember the offseason Andrew

778
00:36:38,078 --> 00:36:40,878
Speaker 3: and I are talking. I'm in Brea, California, probably just

779
00:36:40,918 --> 00:36:43,038
Speaker 3: got off a bike ride. We're talking about Carlos Pinya.

780
00:36:43,118 --> 00:36:45,758
Speaker 3: I love I said, I love Carlos Paine because I

781
00:36:45,878 --> 00:36:49,318
Speaker 3: just saw him like just pretty much annihilate some baseball's

782
00:36:49,358 --> 00:36:53,158
Speaker 3: great first baseman. But it never really took root for him. Okay,

783
00:36:53,478 --> 00:36:56,598
Speaker 3: that happens. And what happens I think is that guys

784
00:36:56,638 --> 00:36:59,238
Speaker 3: that are kind of of that ILK when they're younger,

785
00:36:59,278 --> 00:37:01,558
Speaker 3: there might be high expectations. They come out with a

786
00:37:01,598 --> 00:37:05,798
Speaker 3: lot of fanfare, and they just never settle in their minds,

787
00:37:05,838 --> 00:37:08,318
Speaker 3: never really settled down. They're not able to breathe and

788
00:37:08,398 --> 00:37:11,238
Speaker 3: see like they had done in high school or college.

789
00:37:11,358 --> 00:37:14,478
Speaker 3: But eventually they do. And sometimes they got to get

790
00:37:14,518 --> 00:37:18,358
Speaker 3: away from that original parent and get out of the

791
00:37:18,398 --> 00:37:20,278
Speaker 3: house and go to high school and then go to college,

792
00:37:20,598 --> 00:37:22,798
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, you see that everything differently

793
00:37:22,838 --> 00:37:26,438
Speaker 3: and everything kind of slows down. And now all those abilities,

794
00:37:26,438 --> 00:37:29,198
Speaker 3: all that talented everybody has spoken about that you definitely

795
00:37:29,238 --> 00:37:32,678
Speaker 3: have had, now it comes to the forefront because you're

796
00:37:32,838 --> 00:37:36,118
Speaker 3: just able to think differently. You see things differently. So

797
00:37:36,238 --> 00:37:39,998
Speaker 3: sometimes the dude that was supposed to be the prodigy

798
00:37:39,998 --> 00:37:42,838
Speaker 3: and is not, just give them a little time and

799
00:37:42,918 --> 00:37:45,798
Speaker 3: maybe a team or two later, this guy is going

800
00:37:45,838 --> 00:37:47,238
Speaker 3: to be everything you thought he was going to be.

801
00:37:47,438 --> 00:37:50,838
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about locking players up and growth

802
00:37:50,878 --> 00:37:53,918
Speaker 1: patterns of players as they develop. I want to ask

803
00:37:53,998 --> 00:37:56,558
Speaker 1: joe about his take on one of the biggest free

804
00:37:56,598 --> 00:38:00,678
Speaker 1: agents that's still out there. Why has he not signed,

805
00:38:00,958 --> 00:38:03,918
Speaker 1: and in my opinion, why has he not re signed.

806
00:38:04,598 --> 00:38:06,438
Speaker 2: We'll talk about Cody Bellinger.

807
00:38:06,838 --> 00:38:21,038
Speaker 1: Right after this, Joey talked about locking players up and

808
00:38:21,078 --> 00:38:24,478
Speaker 1: finding the right spots and believing in someone's talents. Cody

809
00:38:24,478 --> 00:38:27,598
Speaker 1: Bellinger is a sort of a mystery as to why

810
00:38:27,638 --> 00:38:31,558
Speaker 1: he has not been signed yet. After a great, I

811
00:38:31,558 --> 00:38:34,078
Speaker 1: mean a great bounce back season last year, it looked

812
00:38:34,118 --> 00:38:36,198
Speaker 1: like he was lost as far as a hitter of

813
00:38:36,198 --> 00:38:38,838
Speaker 1: the last couple of years with the LA Dodgers, he

814
00:38:38,878 --> 00:38:41,478
Speaker 1: had a terrific season last year at the Chicago Cubs.

815
00:38:41,518 --> 00:38:45,718
Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger last year had the second highest batting average

816
00:38:45,758 --> 00:38:49,398
Speaker 1: with two strikes in Major League Baseball. Only Luis Ries,

817
00:38:49,478 --> 00:38:52,158
Speaker 1: who's just a magician with the bat, had a higher

818
00:38:52,158 --> 00:38:56,278
Speaker 1: batting average. Cody Bellinger hit two seventy nine with two strikes.

819
00:38:56,278 --> 00:39:00,718
Speaker 1: It's the highest buying outfielder since Mookie Betts in twenty eighteen.

820
00:39:00,998 --> 00:39:03,478
Speaker 1: Talking about two strike hitting with Cody Bellinger, when did

821
00:39:03,518 --> 00:39:04,558
Speaker 1: you ever talk about that?

822
00:39:04,918 --> 00:39:06,318
Speaker 2: But I think it spoke Joe.

823
00:39:06,158 --> 00:39:08,998
Speaker 1: To the adjustments he made in the off season. It

824
00:39:09,038 --> 00:39:11,678
Speaker 1: wasn't like the Dodgers were trying to fix him, but

825
00:39:11,678 --> 00:39:14,958
Speaker 1: as you know, sometimes you need a different voice, and

826
00:39:15,038 --> 00:39:18,078
Speaker 1: he dove into his swing in the off season at

827
00:39:18,078 --> 00:39:21,638
Speaker 1: home in Arizona, made some really key adjustments in his

828
00:39:21,758 --> 00:39:24,158
Speaker 1: set up. I think the whole key for me was

829
00:39:24,198 --> 00:39:25,998
Speaker 1: he got his hands in a better position and he

830
00:39:26,598 --> 00:39:29,078
Speaker 1: got into a ready position earlier.

831
00:39:29,278 --> 00:39:32,438
Speaker 2: Cody is a guy who used to never move.

832
00:39:32,358 --> 00:39:35,238
Speaker 1: Anything until the ball was literally coming out of the

833
00:39:35,238 --> 00:39:37,278
Speaker 1: pitcher's hand. And you can do that when you have

834
00:39:37,358 --> 00:39:40,718
Speaker 1: incredible batspeed, which he has in quick twitch muscles. But

835
00:39:40,998 --> 00:39:43,718
Speaker 1: just getting ready a little bit earlier and then especially

836
00:39:43,718 --> 00:39:46,718
Speaker 1: with two strikes, putting the ball in play and just

837
00:39:46,758 --> 00:39:48,838
Speaker 1: taking a single when it was an order, that's what

838
00:39:48,918 --> 00:39:49,318
Speaker 1: he did.

839
00:39:49,438 --> 00:39:51,318
Speaker 2: So I love the adjustments that he made.

840
00:39:51,438 --> 00:39:53,878
Speaker 1: I do think it's sustainable, but he's still out there

841
00:39:53,918 --> 00:39:55,998
Speaker 1: as a free agent. I think because teams are having

842
00:39:56,038 --> 00:39:58,518
Speaker 1: a hard time valuing what he is Joe in terms

843
00:39:58,518 --> 00:40:00,598
Speaker 1: of a guy who's gone through some ups and downs

844
00:40:00,598 --> 00:40:04,398
Speaker 1: in his career. But to circle back about extending people,

845
00:40:04,558 --> 00:40:08,118
Speaker 1: I just think Cody found a really good place both

846
00:40:08,318 --> 00:40:11,878
Speaker 1: physically and mentally last year. As they said, he lives

847
00:40:11,878 --> 00:40:14,078
Speaker 1: in Arizona, the Cubs trained there, He did a lot

848
00:40:14,078 --> 00:40:16,198
Speaker 1: of work at the complex in the off season last year.

849
00:40:16,358 --> 00:40:18,598
Speaker 1: So this to me Joe as a marriage that somehow

850
00:40:18,678 --> 00:40:21,558
Speaker 1: has to work out Cody Belger going back to the Cubs.

851
00:40:21,558 --> 00:40:23,998
Speaker 1: It still hasn't happened yet, so that puts some doubt

852
00:40:24,038 --> 00:40:26,878
Speaker 1: in your mind, But I still think this is where

853
00:40:26,878 --> 00:40:28,118
Speaker 1: it should and will wind up.

854
00:40:28,198 --> 00:40:29,838
Speaker 3: I had a couple thoughts. Let me just see if

855
00:40:29,878 --> 00:40:33,758
Speaker 3: I could, in no particular order. Analytics has something to

856
00:40:33,798 --> 00:40:35,438
Speaker 3: do with that, the fact that you just described his

857
00:40:35,518 --> 00:40:38,918
Speaker 3: two strike approach, which was outstanding, in which I love,

858
00:40:39,518 --> 00:40:42,598
Speaker 3: But analysts might look at that as being lucky. They

859
00:40:42,678 --> 00:40:45,238
Speaker 3: they'll view that as being more luck than actual talent.

860
00:40:45,878 --> 00:40:47,998
Speaker 3: And so I think a lot of the analytical departments

861
00:40:48,038 --> 00:40:51,198
Speaker 3: at kind of pushing back on such big numbers based

862
00:40:51,238 --> 00:40:52,918
Speaker 3: on that, and they have a lot of jack when

863
00:40:52,918 --> 00:40:56,598
Speaker 3: it comes to obviously the signing of somebody. So I

864
00:40:56,598 --> 00:41:00,598
Speaker 3: think that's part of the landscape right now regarding why

865
00:41:00,638 --> 00:41:02,598
Speaker 3: he's not been signed, why that number seems to be

866
00:41:02,638 --> 00:41:05,238
Speaker 3: so high that particular reason number two.

867
00:41:05,358 --> 00:41:07,718
Speaker 1: Okay, let me go to dive into number one, because

868
00:41:07,718 --> 00:41:10,158
Speaker 1: that's a great point, and you're right. If you looked

869
00:41:10,158 --> 00:41:13,078
Speaker 1: at the numbers, you will see that in twenty twenty two,

870
00:41:13,118 --> 00:41:15,958
Speaker 1: with two strikes, i'm batting average on balls in play.

871
00:41:16,118 --> 00:41:17,918
Speaker 1: When he did put the ball in play with two strikes,

872
00:41:18,318 --> 00:41:21,118
Speaker 1: he had only two sixty four, and in twenty twenty

873
00:41:21,158 --> 00:41:23,478
Speaker 1: three that was all the way up to three eighty six.

874
00:41:24,278 --> 00:41:26,558
Speaker 2: And it kills me as you and you referred to

875
00:41:26,558 --> 00:41:28,798
Speaker 2: this Joe when people will say he was lucky.

876
00:41:28,998 --> 00:41:31,478
Speaker 1: People look at a high average on batting average on

877
00:41:31,518 --> 00:41:33,158
Speaker 1: balls and play and say, well, he was lucky.

878
00:41:33,358 --> 00:41:35,038
Speaker 2: It's going to reverse next year.

879
00:41:36,198 --> 00:41:38,638
Speaker 1: If you looked at the guy how he played the game,

880
00:41:38,718 --> 00:41:41,078
Speaker 1: he had a very different swing with two strikes in

881
00:41:41,118 --> 00:41:42,078
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three.

882
00:41:42,158 --> 00:41:43,278
Speaker 2: That was not luck.

883
00:41:43,798 --> 00:41:46,038
Speaker 1: Did a couple of balls drop in, Yeah, of course

884
00:41:46,078 --> 00:41:48,958
Speaker 1: they did, but more dropped in because he cut down

885
00:41:48,958 --> 00:41:49,558
Speaker 1: on a swing.

886
00:41:50,158 --> 00:41:52,678
Speaker 2: So just to look at a number and say you

887
00:41:52,678 --> 00:41:54,398
Speaker 2: were lucky. That's just lazy.

888
00:41:54,678 --> 00:41:57,358
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's almost generated on your your your desires

889
00:41:57,478 --> 00:41:58,878
Speaker 3: or your like of the guy. In other words, if

890
00:41:58,878 --> 00:42:01,278
Speaker 3: his number was really low, they would say that he

891
00:42:01,358 --> 00:42:03,238
Speaker 3: was unlucky, that it's going to come back up, it's

892
00:42:03,238 --> 00:42:05,118
Speaker 3: going to be eye nick year. But because it was

893
00:42:05,158 --> 00:42:07,438
Speaker 3: so high, he was lucky. And of course he's got

894
00:42:07,478 --> 00:42:08,398
Speaker 3: a regress to the mean.

895
00:42:08,798 --> 00:42:11,238
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I cut you off there, Joe, but no, no,

896
00:42:11,438 --> 00:42:11,958
Speaker 1: he drives me.

897
00:42:12,598 --> 00:42:15,358
Speaker 3: But it's exactly what's going on. I've heard that so

898
00:42:15,398 --> 00:42:17,918
Speaker 3: many times. So I think that's why he's still available

899
00:42:17,998 --> 00:42:21,798
Speaker 3: number one, number two, why he was better. Watching him

900
00:42:21,838 --> 00:42:25,398
Speaker 3: swing different swing, I mean, he's not as big. He

901
00:42:25,438 --> 00:42:27,958
Speaker 3: will get big on occasion, probably more than likely when

902
00:42:28,278 --> 00:42:30,598
Speaker 3: he's ahead in the count, but I'm not seeing as much,

903
00:42:30,918 --> 00:42:32,998
Speaker 3: you know, dipping with the back shoulder, just trying to

904
00:42:32,998 --> 00:42:36,078
Speaker 3: lift the ball all the time, a much flatter approach

905
00:42:36,078 --> 00:42:38,078
Speaker 3: into the zone, and the ability to drive the ball

906
00:42:38,398 --> 00:42:41,478
Speaker 3: probably the left center more consistently, or just that dug

907
00:42:41,518 --> 00:42:45,678
Speaker 3: fart to left field that's really wonderful with two strikes

908
00:42:45,678 --> 00:42:47,878
Speaker 3: and runners in scoring positions. So I think there is

909
00:42:47,918 --> 00:42:50,238
Speaker 3: a physical difference for me compared to the year before,

910
00:42:50,558 --> 00:42:52,878
Speaker 3: which would give me reason to believe that he can

911
00:42:52,958 --> 00:42:55,758
Speaker 3: do it again. The other point was, like these numbers

912
00:42:55,798 --> 00:42:58,038
Speaker 3: and where he's gonna end up to me, part of

913
00:42:58,078 --> 00:43:01,118
Speaker 3: the I would think trepidation. And with the Cubbies, is

914
00:43:01,158 --> 00:43:03,118
Speaker 3: that to give him that big of a number, he's

915
00:43:03,158 --> 00:43:04,798
Speaker 3: going to go back there and he would be the straw.

916
00:43:05,198 --> 00:43:07,518
Speaker 3: He's the straw that posed to stir the drink. And

917
00:43:07,518 --> 00:43:09,398
Speaker 3: I think that concerns them a little bit. I do,

918
00:43:09,758 --> 00:43:12,438
Speaker 3: Whereas I think if he went to the Yankees, it's

919
00:43:12,478 --> 00:43:15,518
Speaker 3: more it's tastier because he's part of the group, and

920
00:43:15,518 --> 00:43:17,278
Speaker 3: he's gonna get lost in this group, and there's more

921
00:43:17,718 --> 00:43:19,558
Speaker 3: probability that he's going to play to the level that

922
00:43:19,598 --> 00:43:21,478
Speaker 3: he did last year, whereas all of a sudden he's

923
00:43:21,518 --> 00:43:24,558
Speaker 3: going to be the guy. And then furthermore, just giving

924
00:43:24,598 --> 00:43:26,918
Speaker 3: him a lot of number he was so motivated by

925
00:43:27,718 --> 00:43:30,558
Speaker 3: by not having done well, I got to reestablish myself.

926
00:43:30,758 --> 00:43:32,278
Speaker 3: He goes out and works at the point where he

927
00:43:32,318 --> 00:43:34,758
Speaker 3: does re establish himself. So now if we give him

928
00:43:34,798 --> 00:43:37,038
Speaker 3: a big number, is that going to change anything? So

929
00:43:37,158 --> 00:43:39,478
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm just saying these are parts of the

930
00:43:39,478 --> 00:43:44,238
Speaker 3: conversation that groups have to analyze and then knowing the person,

931
00:43:44,358 --> 00:43:46,318
Speaker 3: try to come to terms with what they believe and

932
00:43:46,358 --> 00:43:48,638
Speaker 3: what they don't believe. So that's where it's at I

933
00:43:48,678 --> 00:43:52,398
Speaker 3: think with him. For me, i'd like I understand what

934
00:43:52,438 --> 00:43:54,238
Speaker 3: you say about the Cubs. I think the ballpark's good

935
00:43:54,238 --> 00:43:55,718
Speaker 3: for him. But if I think if you put him

936
00:43:55,758 --> 00:43:58,078
Speaker 3: in a place like Yankee Stadium in centerfil where he

937
00:43:58,078 --> 00:44:00,278
Speaker 3: becomes part of the group, I think you have your

938
00:44:00,318 --> 00:44:02,958
Speaker 3: better chance of him re establishing what he had done

939
00:44:03,038 --> 00:44:05,878
Speaker 3: last year, as opposed to if you actually put him

940
00:44:05,918 --> 00:44:07,998
Speaker 3: out front a little bit more because last year was

941
00:44:07,998 --> 00:44:10,638
Speaker 3: a part of the group. Under this circumstances, he will

942
00:44:10,718 --> 00:44:11,078
Speaker 3: be the guy.

943
00:44:11,438 --> 00:44:14,238
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny because I look at it completely differently.

944
00:44:14,558 --> 00:44:17,958
Speaker 1: First of all, I believe the Yankees truly needed someone

945
00:44:17,998 --> 00:44:21,078
Speaker 1: like Bellinger, like a guy who can legit play center field.

946
00:44:21,518 --> 00:44:24,318
Speaker 1: I cannot believe they're going into the twenty twenty fourth

947
00:44:24,398 --> 00:44:27,838
Speaker 1: season thinking Aaron Judge is going to play center field

948
00:44:27,958 --> 00:44:29,638
Speaker 1: four or five times a week.

949
00:44:29,918 --> 00:44:31,238
Speaker 2: That's just madness.

950
00:44:31,238 --> 00:44:33,438
Speaker 1: For a guy with an injury history who's six foot eight,

951
00:44:33,478 --> 00:44:36,078
Speaker 1: two hundred and eighty pounds, that's just crazy. I would

952
00:44:36,118 --> 00:44:38,438
Speaker 1: never do that, but that's what they're planning on That's

953
00:44:38,438 --> 00:44:41,678
Speaker 1: why I thought, and I thought when Grisham was included

954
00:44:41,718 --> 00:44:43,838
Speaker 1: in the Sodo trade he would fill that role. But no,

955
00:44:43,878 --> 00:44:47,718
Speaker 1: they're not talking like that. So Bellinger, yes, skill set,

956
00:44:47,878 --> 00:44:49,838
Speaker 1: he's that guy. I think New York would be a

957
00:44:49,878 --> 00:44:52,798
Speaker 1: disaster for him. I think he's a complimentary player. I

958
00:44:52,838 --> 00:44:55,718
Speaker 1: don't think he would want the expectations walking into New York.

959
00:44:55,758 --> 00:44:57,158
Speaker 2: It could be another Joey Gallo.

960
00:44:57,238 --> 00:44:59,278
Speaker 1: And I love Joey Gallo, but he will be the

961
00:44:59,318 --> 00:45:01,718
Speaker 1: first one to tell you he did not handle that

962
00:45:01,798 --> 00:45:05,438
Speaker 1: environment well. So coming in as a free agent, you know,

963
00:45:05,638 --> 00:45:09,918
Speaker 1: big number, big ticket, big name into New York, that

964
00:45:10,038 --> 00:45:12,198
Speaker 1: takes a certain guy, a certain mindset.

965
00:45:12,238 --> 00:45:14,158
Speaker 2: That to me, that's not Cody Bellinger.

966
00:45:14,198 --> 00:45:17,318
Speaker 1: And I think returning to the place where he had success,

967
00:45:17,718 --> 00:45:20,238
Speaker 1: the expectations are not as great. I mean, when you

968
00:45:20,278 --> 00:45:24,678
Speaker 1: switch teams, the expectations to me ratchet up. And I think,

969
00:45:24,798 --> 00:45:28,078
Speaker 1: you know, there's enough around him in Chicago that yeah, yeah,

970
00:45:28,198 --> 00:45:29,958
Speaker 1: he's probably going to be the highest paid player if

971
00:45:29,958 --> 00:45:32,478
Speaker 1: he goes back there. Yeah, But I don't think he's

972
00:45:32,518 --> 00:45:35,078
Speaker 1: the aircraft carrier that people would expect.

973
00:45:34,838 --> 00:45:36,358
Speaker 2: Him to be in Chicago. I really don't.

974
00:45:36,438 --> 00:45:38,358
Speaker 1: I think he is a complimentary player with a great

975
00:45:38,358 --> 00:45:40,678
Speaker 1: skill set that earns him a lot of money because

976
00:45:40,718 --> 00:45:44,078
Speaker 1: he's a fabulous base runner and defender as well as

977
00:45:44,078 --> 00:45:45,878
Speaker 1: a guy who's not the same power hitter he.

978
00:45:45,958 --> 00:45:47,078
Speaker 2: Was back in twenty nineteen.

979
00:45:47,118 --> 00:45:50,078
Speaker 1: He doesn't have to be, because he's a better overall hitter,

980
00:45:50,598 --> 00:45:53,758
Speaker 1: but I think the expectations would be a lot worse

981
00:45:53,758 --> 00:45:54,238
Speaker 1: than New York.

982
00:45:54,238 --> 00:45:55,278
Speaker 2: That would be in Chicago.

983
00:45:55,518 --> 00:45:57,558
Speaker 3: He's just a good baseball player. That's you're you're describing

984
00:45:57,598 --> 00:45:59,398
Speaker 3: right there, and again it's almost like a left handed

985
00:45:59,478 --> 00:46:02,798
Speaker 3: KB Chris Bryant. I mean, you describe the same kind

986
00:46:02,838 --> 00:46:05,438
Speaker 3: of skill set, very athletic, able to play more than

987
00:46:05,438 --> 00:46:08,278
Speaker 3: one position and do it really well, and then offensively.

988
00:46:08,318 --> 00:46:11,198
Speaker 3: You get this up and down chart flow with these guys,

989
00:46:11,238 --> 00:46:14,198
Speaker 3: both extremely talented, but you just don't know quite what

990
00:46:14,278 --> 00:46:17,278
Speaker 3: to expect regarding New York. I had the idea of

991
00:46:17,318 --> 00:46:20,078
Speaker 3: this pleasure now, but I had his daddy, Clay with

992
00:46:20,118 --> 00:46:22,198
Speaker 3: the Angels for a bit, and Clay of course spent

993
00:46:22,318 --> 00:46:24,478
Speaker 3: some time in New York. I don't even know if

994
00:46:24,478 --> 00:46:28,318
Speaker 3: that would permit or allow him to understand that a

995
00:46:28,318 --> 00:46:31,398
Speaker 3: little bit better. Just having that kind of experience within

996
00:46:31,438 --> 00:46:33,838
Speaker 3: the family. There's got to be a lot of conversations

997
00:46:33,838 --> 00:46:35,598
Speaker 3: with that, etc. And again, I don't even know if

998
00:46:35,638 --> 00:46:37,678
Speaker 3: there are any kind of offers going on there, but

999
00:46:37,758 --> 00:46:40,958
Speaker 3: I see, I understand what you're saying. But I say,

1000
00:46:40,958 --> 00:46:43,758
Speaker 3: if you put him in a lineup with Judge and

1001
00:46:43,998 --> 00:46:48,878
Speaker 3: Soto and that particular group at that ballpark too, is intriguing.

1002
00:46:49,038 --> 00:46:50,678
Speaker 3: I think he's a very he is a very good

1003
00:46:50,718 --> 00:46:52,958
Speaker 3: center fielder. And you're right, I mean a play Aaron

1004
00:46:53,038 --> 00:46:56,198
Speaker 3: out there often you're looking for problems with that. I

1005
00:46:56,238 --> 00:47:01,118
Speaker 3: really do believe that also, So yeah, your logic is outstanding.

1006
00:47:01,158 --> 00:47:03,558
Speaker 3: I just think that in my mind's eye, you put

1007
00:47:03,598 --> 00:47:06,638
Speaker 3: him with that New York group, le Mayh, Rizzo, all

1008
00:47:06,718 --> 00:47:09,318
Speaker 3: these guys Rizzle keep them straight, you know, Judge will

1009
00:47:09,358 --> 00:47:11,518
Speaker 3: keep them straight. And then you got Soto. It's just

1010
00:47:11,518 --> 00:47:14,158
Speaker 3: gonna all the spotlight's going to be him on him

1011
00:47:14,158 --> 00:47:16,718
Speaker 3: the whole time. I think he could actually just morph

1012
00:47:16,758 --> 00:47:17,638
Speaker 3: into there very easily.

1013
00:47:18,078 --> 00:47:20,038
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and people will say, well, you know

1014
00:47:20,078 --> 00:47:22,118
Speaker 2: what's so hard about New York? And I think I

1015
00:47:22,158 --> 00:47:24,598
Speaker 2: can put Philly and Boston in the same umbrella.

1016
00:47:24,678 --> 00:47:24,918
Speaker 3: Joe.

1017
00:47:25,918 --> 00:47:29,798
Speaker 1: It is different because the word I use is accountability,

1018
00:47:30,278 --> 00:47:32,318
Speaker 1: where there's hyper accountability.

1019
00:47:32,398 --> 00:47:34,238
Speaker 2: If you go zero for for opening.

1020
00:47:33,958 --> 00:47:36,398
Speaker 1: Day, You've got to gaggle in front of your locker

1021
00:47:36,438 --> 00:47:38,918
Speaker 1: asking you what happened. You need to explain yourself. And

1022
00:47:38,918 --> 00:47:42,918
Speaker 1: if you don't explain yourself, that's even worse. That doesn't

1023
00:47:43,038 --> 00:47:47,358
Speaker 1: happen in other markets. It's the volume of the media covering.

1024
00:47:47,958 --> 00:47:51,318
Speaker 1: It's the fact that you know, back pages need to

1025
00:47:51,358 --> 00:47:54,998
Speaker 1: be filled, stories need to be written all the time,

1026
00:47:55,278 --> 00:47:58,638
Speaker 1: so you don't have the kind of literal breathing room

1027
00:47:59,158 --> 00:48:03,038
Speaker 1: you have in other environments. Not everybody is cut out

1028
00:48:03,078 --> 00:48:05,478
Speaker 1: for that. Wan Soto, I think, is going to be

1029
00:48:05,638 --> 00:48:09,118
Speaker 1: absolutely fine. I remember, you know, when the trade was made,

1030
00:48:09,638 --> 00:48:11,918
Speaker 1: the guy who signed him for the Nationals, Johnny Depulio,

1031
00:48:12,038 --> 00:48:14,798
Speaker 1: the scout, was there and he told me Wan Soto

1032
00:48:14,878 --> 00:48:16,718
Speaker 1: has wanted to play in New York since he was

1033
00:48:16,758 --> 00:48:17,158
Speaker 1: a kid.

1034
00:48:17,238 --> 00:48:19,198
Speaker 2: He's built for this. Those are the kind of guys

1035
00:48:19,198 --> 00:48:20,478
Speaker 2: you don't worry about.

1036
00:48:21,158 --> 00:48:24,438
Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger living in Arizona a little more late We'll

1037
00:48:24,518 --> 00:48:27,918
Speaker 1: definitely a late back kind of character that he is.

1038
00:48:28,718 --> 00:48:31,758
Speaker 1: You know, I don't see him responding to that sort

1039
00:48:31,758 --> 00:48:35,838
Speaker 1: of energy and day to data accountability that you have

1040
00:48:35,958 --> 00:48:37,198
Speaker 1: to withstand in New York.

1041
00:48:37,438 --> 00:48:40,398
Speaker 3: That's point I mean in Chicago. I mean I felt

1042
00:48:40,598 --> 00:48:43,798
Speaker 3: a higher level of accountability in Chicago also, sure, and

1043
00:48:44,158 --> 00:48:47,038
Speaker 3: I really I think it's great. I mean that's what

1044
00:48:47,118 --> 00:48:51,278
Speaker 3: I think. Sometimes it's misconstrued. Whereas when you have a

1045
00:48:51,358 --> 00:48:55,038
Speaker 3: highly accountable fan base and media that really should bring

1046
00:48:55,078 --> 00:48:57,318
Speaker 3: out the best in you. I think agreed to be

1047
00:48:57,358 --> 00:49:00,678
Speaker 3: in a more lazier setting where you know, bad day,

1048
00:49:00,758 --> 00:49:03,398
Speaker 3: bad week, whatever, there's you know, people aren't really getting

1049
00:49:03,398 --> 00:49:06,198
Speaker 3: on your near as badly or as much. It gets

1050
00:49:06,198 --> 00:49:09,238
Speaker 3: a little sleepy. So I'm telling you, man, I love

1051
00:49:09,358 --> 00:49:11,478
Speaker 3: Chicago for that. You know, the fact we had not

1052
00:49:11,518 --> 00:49:12,878
Speaker 3: won in one hundred and eight years, and all of

1053
00:49:12,918 --> 00:49:16,038
Speaker 3: a sudden you do something like that, and even after

1054
00:49:16,078 --> 00:49:18,238
Speaker 3: you win, and then you're saying, you just go through

1055
00:49:18,278 --> 00:49:20,118
Speaker 3: a bad moment, even after you win for the first

1056
00:49:20,118 --> 00:49:22,558
Speaker 3: time one and eight and all of a sudden, it's like, well,

1057
00:49:22,958 --> 00:49:25,838
Speaker 3: it's almost like you forgot everything you had done to

1058
00:49:25,838 --> 00:49:28,038
Speaker 3: get you there. You're not as good as which you

1059
00:49:28,078 --> 00:49:31,638
Speaker 3: had done before. Now it turns on you could turn

1060
00:49:31,678 --> 00:49:35,478
Speaker 3: on you rather quickly, but but you go to the ballpark. Man.

1061
00:49:36,078 --> 00:49:39,358
Speaker 3: That's why the one twenty afternoon game in Chicago kind

1062
00:49:39,398 --> 00:49:42,438
Speaker 3: of works because you're not tired. The moment you walk

1063
00:49:42,518 --> 00:49:44,998
Speaker 3: into Wrigley Field for a day game, it's ten o'clock.

1064
00:49:45,398 --> 00:49:47,278
Speaker 3: I hated day games because I hate it getting up

1065
00:49:47,318 --> 00:49:50,558
Speaker 3: that early. You got to talk to everybody. You gotta

1066
00:49:50,598 --> 00:49:53,038
Speaker 3: be on from the first thing in the morning. But

1067
00:49:53,598 --> 00:49:56,238
Speaker 3: once you get used to it, it turns you on too. Man.

1068
00:49:56,558 --> 00:50:00,118
Speaker 3: So there's something about the accountability of a fan base

1069
00:50:00,558 --> 00:50:03,278
Speaker 3: and a media that I think should bring out the

1070
00:50:03,318 --> 00:50:03,918
Speaker 3: best in an hour.

1071
00:50:04,318 --> 00:50:05,198
Speaker 2: That's a great point.

1072
00:50:05,278 --> 00:50:08,918
Speaker 1: The energy that comes with all the accountability is something

1073
00:50:08,958 --> 00:50:11,998
Speaker 1: that should work in a positive direction. Now you just

1074
00:50:12,038 --> 00:50:14,998
Speaker 1: have to understand that you can't take things personally.

1075
00:50:15,118 --> 00:50:16,678
Speaker 2: And it was Greg Jeffries. I don't know if you

1076
00:50:16,718 --> 00:50:17,798
Speaker 2: remember Greg Jefferies.

1077
00:50:19,238 --> 00:50:22,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Greg Jeffries started obviously in New York, and

1078
00:50:22,598 --> 00:50:25,918
Speaker 1: he did really well, especially his first year there. But

1079
00:50:26,118 --> 00:50:28,278
Speaker 1: you know, listen, there are times that happens to everybody.

1080
00:50:28,278 --> 00:50:30,558
Speaker 1: You go in a slump and New York doesn't care

1081
00:50:30,718 --> 00:50:32,798
Speaker 1: what you've already put in the bank. You know, they

1082
00:50:32,838 --> 00:50:35,838
Speaker 1: want to hit that next time up and they'll get

1083
00:50:35,838 --> 00:50:39,158
Speaker 1: on you. Lots of great players, Derek Cheeter has been

1084
00:50:39,198 --> 00:50:42,438
Speaker 1: booed in New York. That's not a surprise. But what

1085
00:50:42,518 --> 00:50:44,998
Speaker 1: Greg Jeffries said, is then when he went to both

1086
00:50:45,038 --> 00:50:48,078
Speaker 1: Saint Louis and Kansas City, he said, it was startling

1087
00:50:48,238 --> 00:50:51,758
Speaker 1: the difference because when you were slumping there, they cheered

1088
00:50:51,878 --> 00:50:54,798
Speaker 1: harder for you. They thought of you as one of

1089
00:50:54,838 --> 00:50:58,158
Speaker 1: their own and wanted to pull you through by supporting you.

1090
00:50:58,758 --> 00:51:02,798
Speaker 1: Totally different the way different fan bases react to it.

1091
00:51:02,878 --> 00:51:05,038
Speaker 2: So each you just have to understand.

1092
00:51:05,078 --> 00:51:07,358
Speaker 1: I think when you're playing in New York, Boston, Philly,

1093
00:51:07,638 --> 00:51:10,558
Speaker 1: that's going to happen that they care so much about

1094
00:51:10,598 --> 00:51:14,518
Speaker 1: it that it's frustration that they're going to voice and

1095
00:51:14,558 --> 00:51:15,398
Speaker 1: you try not to.

1096
00:51:15,518 --> 00:51:16,958
Speaker 2: You shouldn't take it so personally.

1097
00:51:17,198 --> 00:51:19,518
Speaker 3: Trey Turner, right, last year with the Philly fan.

1098
00:51:19,398 --> 00:51:20,878
Speaker 2: Base, there you go, that was great.

1099
00:51:20,878 --> 00:51:24,318
Speaker 3: They went Bizarrow Philly. Right there, they went the exact opposite,

1100
00:51:24,318 --> 00:51:27,758
Speaker 3: They went George Costanz on it. They did the exact opposite,

1101
00:51:28,118 --> 00:51:30,158
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden it worked for him. I

1102
00:51:30,278 --> 00:51:34,198
Speaker 3: get that, but I'm just here to say Man worked

1103
00:51:34,238 --> 00:51:37,238
Speaker 3: in Anaheim, worked in Chicago, and of course worked in

1104
00:51:37,238 --> 00:51:40,438
Speaker 3: Tampa Bay. By far, the most electric feeling you have

1105
00:51:40,558 --> 00:51:43,558
Speaker 3: on a daily basis the one that really wakes you up,

1106
00:51:43,598 --> 00:51:47,238
Speaker 3: the one that makes you really rely on everything you've

1107
00:51:47,278 --> 00:51:49,838
Speaker 3: learned at that particular moment is when you walk into

1108
00:51:49,838 --> 00:51:53,798
Speaker 3: Wrigley on a Monday afternoon. I've talked you about this

1109
00:51:53,838 --> 00:51:58,758
Speaker 3: before Monday afternoon makeup game Cleveland Indians Kluber versus Lester,

1110
00:51:59,198 --> 00:52:00,718
Speaker 3: forty thousand people come on.

1111
00:52:01,198 --> 00:52:03,598
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've always said that's why those teams, to me,

1112
00:52:04,158 --> 00:52:05,558
Speaker 1: they have a little bit of an edge when it

1113
00:52:05,558 --> 00:52:09,078
Speaker 1: comes to postseason play because they've played in hostile and

1114
00:52:09,238 --> 00:52:13,478
Speaker 1: energetic environments all the time. So, just finishing up on

1115
00:52:13,598 --> 00:52:18,398
Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger, I do think he will resign with the Cubs.

1116
00:52:18,438 --> 00:52:20,718
Speaker 1: I think that's his best place. We'll see what happens.

1117
00:52:20,918 --> 00:52:23,718
Speaker 1: It's no guarantee, but I just remember he was a

1118
00:52:23,758 --> 00:52:26,438
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, now a few years ago showing

1119
00:52:26,518 --> 00:52:30,678
Speaker 1: up Philly's spring training. Pitchers and catchers already been there.

1120
00:52:30,678 --> 00:52:32,958
Speaker 1: I think the position players has showed up. And that's

1121
00:52:32,998 --> 00:52:36,558
Speaker 1: when Bryce Harper was signed. Remember spring training camps had

1122
00:52:36,598 --> 00:52:40,158
Speaker 1: opened up. Bryce Harper, coming up one hundred RBI season

1123
00:52:40,198 --> 00:52:43,278
Speaker 1: as a free agent, wasn't signed until camps had opened up.

1124
00:52:43,318 --> 00:52:46,678
Speaker 1: Of course, Bellinger and Harper both have the same agent,

1125
00:52:46,718 --> 00:52:50,558
Speaker 1: Scott Boris, so it's not a surprise that Scott Boris's

1126
00:52:50,598 --> 00:52:52,038
Speaker 1: clients are out there this late.

1127
00:52:52,518 --> 00:52:53,678
Speaker 2: It's just the way things go.

1128
00:52:53,798 --> 00:52:55,558
Speaker 1: Until he gets the number that he wants from the

1129
00:52:55,558 --> 00:52:57,878
Speaker 1: team that he wants, he'll continue to wait. It wouldn't

1130
00:52:57,918 --> 00:53:01,958
Speaker 1: surprise me if, like Bryce Harper, Cody Bellinger doesn't sign

1131
00:53:02,198 --> 00:53:03,438
Speaker 1: until the middle of February.

1132
00:53:03,918 --> 00:53:06,678
Speaker 3: Had Dexter Feller walk out onto the.

1133
00:53:06,598 --> 00:53:10,358
Speaker 2: Field, that was great. I was there, Okay, so.

1134
00:53:10,358 --> 00:53:12,918
Speaker 3: We've actually had that. I was given the heads up

1135
00:53:12,958 --> 00:53:15,638
Speaker 3: right before it had happened. And of course Dexter was

1136
00:53:15,798 --> 00:53:18,038
Speaker 3: so important to the success of that group and during

1137
00:53:18,038 --> 00:53:20,838
Speaker 3: that period of time not given nearly the credit. I mean,

1138
00:53:20,878 --> 00:53:25,798
Speaker 3: I've never been around such a consistent personality through good

1139
00:53:25,838 --> 00:53:28,358
Speaker 3: or bad on a daily basis. Turned out to be

1140
00:53:28,438 --> 00:53:32,598
Speaker 3: a really good friend. But he was that important to

1141
00:53:32,598 --> 00:53:37,198
Speaker 3: the success of the Cubs during that beautiful moment that

1142
00:53:37,278 --> 00:53:41,718
Speaker 3: we had from twenty and fifteen till nineteen. So it happens,

1143
00:53:42,278 --> 00:53:44,358
Speaker 3: and it can be very stirring for the group too

1144
00:53:44,358 --> 00:53:48,118
Speaker 3: when it happens like that, especially whenever whenever the players,

1145
00:53:48,158 --> 00:53:51,198
Speaker 3: the entire group feels as though the front office has

1146
00:53:51,238 --> 00:53:55,078
Speaker 3: done something to make you better. Wow, it's an uplifting moment.

1147
00:53:55,078 --> 00:53:57,598
Speaker 3: Of course, that happens during the trade deadline during the

1148
00:53:57,638 --> 00:54:00,278
Speaker 3: course of the season. But it actually, like we're describing

1149
00:54:00,358 --> 00:54:02,438
Speaker 3: right now, can happen in spring training. So it comes

1150
00:54:02,438 --> 00:54:05,998
Speaker 3: down to that moment and you bring the guy out

1151
00:54:06,198 --> 00:54:08,238
Speaker 3: and you're having a nice camp, or the camp just

1152
00:54:08,278 --> 00:54:11,038
Speaker 3: begins and you're pretty good to begin with, but all

1153
00:54:11,038 --> 00:54:14,038
Speaker 3: of a sudden, here comes this piece, and I'm telling

1154
00:54:14,078 --> 00:54:16,918
Speaker 3: you it's exhilarating and it could definitely stir it up

1155
00:54:16,958 --> 00:54:18,238
Speaker 3: in a positive way for the group.

1156
00:54:18,438 --> 00:54:21,838
Speaker 1: Well said, And as I said, I remember being there,

1157
00:54:21,878 --> 00:54:25,598
Speaker 1: and that was one of Theo's proudest accomplishments because Dexter

1158
00:54:25,718 --> 00:54:28,198
Speaker 1: looked like he was signed, sealed and delivered to Baltimore,

1159
00:54:28,878 --> 00:54:31,878
Speaker 1: and no one in this day and age, it's shocking.

1160
00:54:32,038 --> 00:54:35,158
Speaker 1: No one had any clue that that deal was going down,

1161
00:54:35,558 --> 00:54:38,918
Speaker 1: and when Dexter showed up, even the players were surprised.

1162
00:54:38,918 --> 00:54:42,198
Speaker 1: THEO somehow was able to keep that one under wraps.

1163
00:54:42,198 --> 00:54:44,518
Speaker 1: And I do remember how much he meant to your club, Joe,

1164
00:54:44,598 --> 00:54:48,318
Speaker 1: and that boost your team got because he completed your team,

1165
00:54:48,438 --> 00:54:49,798
Speaker 1: especially at the leadoff spot.

1166
00:54:50,158 --> 00:54:52,718
Speaker 2: So we'll see where Cody Bellinger winds up. In the meantime.

1167
00:54:52,758 --> 00:54:55,838
Speaker 1: This has been fun Joe talking about football, baseball and

1168
00:54:56,318 --> 00:54:58,598
Speaker 1: when to commit and who to commit to in time.

1169
00:54:58,758 --> 00:55:01,998
Speaker 1: So you've always been great. I'm counting on you again

1170
00:55:02,078 --> 00:55:04,838
Speaker 1: to take us out with some words of wisdom to

1171
00:55:04,878 --> 00:55:07,598
Speaker 1: finish up this latest edition of the Book of Joe Well.

1172
00:55:07,598 --> 00:55:09,358
Speaker 3: I was. I was in the football frame of mind.

1173
00:55:09,398 --> 00:55:12,198
Speaker 3: I watched pretty much both games and then in their

1174
00:55:12,318 --> 00:55:15,438
Speaker 3: entireties and Dan Cambll I've been locked in him. Man,

1175
00:55:15,558 --> 00:55:17,558
Speaker 3: I don't know the man. I'd love to meet him.

1176
00:55:17,878 --> 00:55:20,478
Speaker 3: I think he's exactly who we think he is by

1177
00:55:20,478 --> 00:55:22,838
Speaker 3: watching him and listening to him, and I think that's wonderful.

1178
00:55:23,798 --> 00:55:29,718
Speaker 3: Authenticity always plays, sincerity always plays, Accountability play always plays,

1179
00:55:29,758 --> 00:55:32,118
Speaker 3: and I think that's who he is. So I was

1180
00:55:32,158 --> 00:55:35,238
Speaker 3: looking for something along those lines. He was criticized for

1181
00:55:35,478 --> 00:55:37,518
Speaker 3: going for the touchdown as opposed to the field. I mean,

1182
00:55:37,518 --> 00:55:40,518
Speaker 3: going for the first down from Arthur Ash. You've got

1183
00:55:40,558 --> 00:55:43,158
Speaker 3: to get to the stage in life we're going for

1184
00:55:43,318 --> 00:55:46,558
Speaker 3: it is more important than winning or losing, and I

1185
00:55:46,598 --> 00:55:49,278
Speaker 3: think I've always thought in order to win, you can't

1186
00:55:49,278 --> 00:55:52,558
Speaker 3: be afraid to lose. That's what was exemplified by his

1187
00:55:53,118 --> 00:55:56,638
Speaker 3: thought process. And again I've talked about it being analytically protected,

1188
00:55:56,718 --> 00:55:59,518
Speaker 3: but nevertheless, that's who he is. I don't even know

1189
00:55:59,558 --> 00:56:02,718
Speaker 3: to what extent it is analytically protected. It just might

1190
00:56:02,758 --> 00:56:05,998
Speaker 3: be exactly how we think. But it's more important than

1191
00:56:05,998 --> 00:56:08,718
Speaker 3: when you're losing, and that's going for it. Whatever you

1192
00:56:08,718 --> 00:56:10,358
Speaker 3: believe in, you got to go for in your stage

1193
00:56:10,358 --> 00:56:13,158
Speaker 3: in life. Flast Point Playoff game playoff series against the

1194
00:56:13,198 --> 00:56:17,318
Speaker 3: Red Sox two thousand and eight at Tropic Cana Field. JD.

1195
00:56:17,438 --> 00:56:20,518
Speaker 3: Drew is going to the right field corner pop up.

1196
00:56:20,878 --> 00:56:23,758
Speaker 3: Fernando Perez on a third base taging up. So we

1197
00:56:23,798 --> 00:56:25,718
Speaker 3: thought that Drew was going to let the ball drop,

1198
00:56:25,758 --> 00:56:28,278
Speaker 3: and he did not. It was relatively shallow, but Fernando

1199
00:56:28,358 --> 00:56:31,798
Speaker 3: could fly, so Fernando tags up. He comes across the scores,

1200
00:56:32,078 --> 00:56:37,238
Speaker 3: raids win, and afterwards Fernando blurted out the phrase, we

1201
00:56:37,398 --> 00:56:40,998
Speaker 3: air on the side of aggressiveness. God that I love that.

1202
00:56:41,038 --> 00:56:42,518
Speaker 3: I wanted to kiss him on the lips when he

1203
00:56:42,558 --> 00:56:45,358
Speaker 3: said that, that is the attitude you have to have

1204
00:56:45,398 --> 00:56:48,758
Speaker 3: to be a champion. You cannot be tentative, you can't

1205
00:56:48,758 --> 00:56:52,118
Speaker 3: be mealy, you can't be wishy washy, however you want

1206
00:56:52,158 --> 00:56:54,598
Speaker 3: to describe it. Dan Campbell is not any of that,

1207
00:56:55,198 --> 00:56:58,238
Speaker 3: and Fernando is one of the brightest players I've ever

1208
00:56:58,238 --> 00:57:01,798
Speaker 3: had in the big leagues. Columbia University said, we air

1209
00:57:01,958 --> 00:57:04,558
Speaker 3: on the side of aggressiveness, and I love it till

1210
00:57:05,198 --> 00:57:06,158
Speaker 3: this day. Yeah.

1211
00:57:06,198 --> 00:57:07,878
Speaker 1: I was going to say I love that line too,

1212
00:57:07,918 --> 00:57:10,878
Speaker 1: and especially coming from one of the most literate players

1213
00:57:10,958 --> 00:57:13,998
Speaker 1: you'll ever come across in the big leagues, Fernando Jim.

1214
00:57:14,518 --> 00:57:15,118
Speaker 2: It's been fun.

1215
00:57:15,198 --> 00:57:15,358
Speaker 3: Joe.

1216
00:57:15,358 --> 00:57:17,838
Speaker 2: Thanks, we'll see you next time. Great job, Thank you brother,

1217
00:57:17,838 --> 00:57:18,158
Speaker 2: you too.

1218
00:57:24,038 --> 00:57:27,278
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1219
00:57:27,478 --> 00:57:32,478
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1220
00:57:32,598 --> 00:57:34,358
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.