Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2: All right, we're wasting no time.
Speaker 3: Let's get straight to our exclusive conversation with Jamie Diamond
Speaker 3: Shaman and CEO of JP Mantt and Chase Jimmy cand
Speaker 3: Have you with us, and thanks for having us here.
Speaker 1: Happy to be here.
Speaker 3: The bond market is front and center. We're seeing yields
Speaker 3: at the highest levels in decades. Yet we see the
Speaker 3: stock market keeps rallying in factice again in the money today.
Speaker 2: Should we be notice or not?
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's always reasonable in the investment world
Speaker 1: to be nervous a little bit because you've mentioned the opening.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of geopolitical risk. You have a bunch
Speaker 1: of wars going on, which I hope are properly resolved.
Speaker 1: You have bond rags going up. Inflation is a little
Speaker 1: bit higher than people thought. So yeah, but I'm not surprised.
Speaker 1: I think when people say you should be surprised bond
Speaker 1: raigs can go up, the notion that somehow people said
Speaker 1: they'll never go up is the wrong notion. And so
Speaker 1: companies like us prepare for higher rates, lower rates, and
Speaker 1: you know, figure those things can happen. So the thing is.
Speaker 3: There at the highest level in decades. I mean that
Speaker 3: is where the surprise could be.
Speaker 1: I think they could be much higher they are today.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And you know you say decades, but we've
Speaker 1: had like one of the greatest bullmark other than brief COVID.
Speaker 1: You know, since the Great Financial Crisis, we've had a
Speaker 1: huge bull market, huge uh lower rates for the most
Speaker 1: part for a long period of time. But the world changes,
Speaker 1: you know, like we may have gone from a savings
Speaker 1: glut to a to not enough savings, you know, and
Speaker 1: you know the AI investments you come about in America
Speaker 1: loan four and fifty billion last year, seven and fifty
Speaker 1: this year, a trillion next year. Global deficits that are
Speaker 1: all time highs and they are huge. So the government's
Speaker 1: including ours, has to borrow huge sums of money more
Speaker 1: next year than this year. So you know, people who
Speaker 1: owned bonds, they tend to look at these things and
Speaker 1: both inflation and you know, demands for capital can push
Speaker 1: up rates.
Speaker 3: The thing is, it's not just an inflation story right now,
Speaker 3: it's also I guess credibility story, right I mean, we
Speaker 3: we have off an environment where everybody's trying to pay
Speaker 3: debt and governments around the world have so much debt
Speaker 3: at a higher level.
Speaker 2: I mean, at some point it's going to hit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is going to head. Like the US government
Speaker 1: debt is thirty trillion. The average rate is three and
Speaker 1: a half percent, you know, so even today they can't
Speaker 1: possibly refinite it, finance it at lower than that rate.
Speaker 1: They have another two trillion dollars to do this year.
Speaker 1: So yeah, But the thing is, we don't know when
Speaker 1: we don't know when the world gets too scared about that,
Speaker 1: when inflation makes it, where people don't want own long
Speaker 1: term duration securities, and where it's just a demand for capital.
Speaker 1: There have been examples in history where there's so much
Speaker 1: demand for capital rates are going up. But it's very
Speaker 1: good reason people are making productive investments in the world.
Speaker 1: Government spending is often not that government spending is much
Speaker 1: more consumptual later, which doesn't help future productivity. So all
Speaker 1: that spending too drives corepate profits, so people should be
Speaker 1: that surprised that core profits are doing quite well too,
Speaker 1: which helps obviously the stock market.
Speaker 3: The question, I guess, if I could get you to
Speaker 3: live in the crystal ball right at what yield would
Speaker 3: that be spillover to the economy, to policy, to markets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm very questions about crystal balls, because I
Speaker 1: don't think anyone has a crystal ball. We look at
Speaker 1: all potential possible outcomes, and you'd be surprised from recessions
Speaker 1: with inflation, from recession with no inflation, from your home
Speaker 1: price is down forty percent, of stock right down forty percent.
Speaker 1: It's a wide range of outcome. I think when people
Speaker 1: think this is our forecast, that that's what's going to happen,
Speaker 1: I think that's an intellectual error. I think you should
Speaker 1: be much more thinking about range of outcomes, possibilities, probabilities,
Speaker 1: and for us, we want to handle all of them
Speaker 1: so we can serve our clients. So I'm not that
Speaker 1: worried about, you know, our profits going down in the
Speaker 1: stock going That doesn't worry me at all. I want
Speaker 1: to serve our clients and do a good job. And
Speaker 1: I do worry about the geopolitics for the future of mankind.
Speaker 1: That's a far more important issue in my mind. But
Speaker 1: just looking forward, I think it's a pretty my own
Speaker 1: view and it's just different than other people. Is that
Speaker 1: race can easily go up more and credits, breads can
Speaker 1: go up more.
Speaker 2: I know everything's going to be okay even with the
Speaker 2: rates going on.
Speaker 1: No, at one point you can have a lot of
Speaker 1: people who have to refight higher rates. So there's this
Speaker 1: general assumption that, oh, I can refi all this debt
Speaker 1: at roughly the similar rate. Well, if credit breads go up, people,
Speaker 1: companies and governments will have to pay more, and so
Speaker 1: that can put stress in the system and easily could
Speaker 1: cause a recession type of thing. Again, I'm not terrified
Speaker 1: at recession other than you know, hurst people will get
Speaker 1: laid off. But I think as a scenario that's a
Speaker 1: very possible scenario.
Speaker 3: There are risks people have cult time on the credit market.
Speaker 3: If heels continue to rise, there'll be a lot more
Speaker 3: pressure on the credit market. How might that play out.
Speaker 1: Oh, a lot of companies are levers. There's you know,
Speaker 1: there's five six trillion dollars of levers loans out there.
Speaker 1: They're gonna have a hard time refine at those rates.
Speaker 1: The equity values will be considerably less. Some will be
Speaker 1: prepared for it, some hedge for it. A lot of
Speaker 1: people didn't hedge for it, so which means that people
Speaker 1: don't think about But that means to take an interest
Speaker 1: rate risk, you know, and that they should be very
Speaker 1: cost to take interest rate risk. And so as you said,
Speaker 1: this could put pressure on the system high yield.
Speaker 3: That's been so much demand for it, never mind that
Speaker 3: inflation is sticky.
Speaker 2: Is this worrying or not?
Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned at the top there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of exuberance in the marketplace. Personally, I'm not a buyer
Speaker 1: of credit spreads. I am not that instruy what other
Speaker 1: people do. I would not buy credit spreads at these levels,
Speaker 1: and you know other people have other views. But a
Speaker 1: lot of people out there, remember they have passive, passive
Speaker 1: funds buy it. You know, people have to meet indexes.
Speaker 1: A lot of reasons people have to buy, and they're
Speaker 1: just trying to create a little bit of outfit for
Speaker 1: themselves as opposed to would you go absolutely long credit
Speaker 1: spreads or not? So I would have a luxury saying
Speaker 1: we don't have to enough. Of course, we're in the business,
Speaker 1: so we continue to make loans that I think may
Speaker 1: be more stressed than people think. But that's part of
Speaker 1: a long term strategy. That's not because I like it
Speaker 1: at this price.
Speaker 3: But the thing is so much demand. What's behind that demand?
Speaker 3: Is it that complacency?
Speaker 1: I suppose yes, But demand changes. You know, people forget sentiment.
Speaker 1: If you look at you know what happened before the
Speaker 1: crash of seventy three, the crash of eighty two, or
Speaker 1: the bond market in ninety four, the crash of two
Speaker 1: thousand or eight. That was all true. And then things change,
Speaker 1: and even the things change about when people talk about liquidity, Well,
Speaker 1: what happens when things get tough is sentiment changes and
Speaker 1: people want more cash. And you know, so the liquidity
Speaker 1: requirements change, money supply changes, central banks change, banks pull
Speaker 1: back and that all can you know, pull liquidity of
Speaker 1: the market precise the wrong time and when people need
Speaker 1: cash they sell risky assets. So you might predict that
Speaker 1: all we have no but I wouldn't be surprised if
Speaker 1: that happens.
Speaker 2: It's not just about markets, it's about AI. It's about tech.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, jefpy Morgan has come up to
Speaker 3: say it is actually a tech company that just happens
Speaker 3: to be a bank. You have a huge tech budget.
Speaker 3: I think nine billion dollars three billion for twenty million,
Speaker 3: and then I think three billion for cybersecurity. Talk to
Speaker 3: us about how you're mobilizing the capital a party.
Speaker 1: So we don't actually deploy capital by saying we'll put
Speaker 1: capital there. We and everywhere we do in every business
Speaker 1: we grow in China like here, if you look at
Speaker 1: just China, we've gone from banking ten companies to banking
Speaker 1: I think it's two or three hundred. We've gone from
Speaker 1: banking thirty multinationals coming here to banking six hundred multinationals
Speaker 1: coming here. And as we serve them, it deploys capital.
Speaker 1: So the deployment of capital, deployment loans are an outcome
Speaker 1: of building the business. That's true for every country. It's
Speaker 1: true we open branches in the United States, it starts
Speaker 1: to demand capital as people will give us deposits, we
Speaker 1: start to make loans. So we are pretty Comforanty. We
Speaker 1: get deploy capital intelligently serving clients. We don't deploy capital
Speaker 1: like an investor saying, oh, this is the best place
Speaker 1: to put it. It's kind of an outcome of how
Speaker 1: we kind of grow with the business.
Speaker 2: And always us ay I though, I mean how are invested?
Speaker 1: Absolutely AI, if you would any business meaning we have
Speaker 1: and we've been doing it for thirteen years, and every
Speaker 1: business meaning you have, we talk about how you can
Speaker 1: use technology do better job for your clients. What are
Speaker 1: the projects you have? So we're using AI for risk fraud, marketing, design,
Speaker 1: document management, who you should call in the morning, salesforce
Speaker 1: type things, branch location, hedging, and it's a tip of
Speaker 1: the iceberg. You know, it's moving very very quick coding,
Speaker 1: it's moving very quickly. So we want to just stay
Speaker 1: up there and use AI to serve our clients. And
Speaker 1: we're going to do that. How can I do a
Speaker 1: better job for our clients using a technologic called AI,
Speaker 1: just like we did it with a technology called digital,
Speaker 1: a technology called cloud, and way back at technology called mainframe.
Speaker 1: Like it's no different. We got to do a better
Speaker 1: job for a client because that's how we compete.
Speaker 3: So how will Jimmy Malgan look like in three to
Speaker 3: five years and on the back of developments in AI?
Speaker 1: How will what?
Speaker 2: How will Jimmymugan look like? I mean, how will are
Speaker 2: your business?
Speaker 1: I hope with thriving? But what's not going to change?
Speaker 1: People would have to hold money, movement and invest money,
Speaker 1: raise money. I think how it happens? Will I change?
Speaker 1: You know, we use blockshain. There may be more blockshain
Speaker 1: being used to do that. There may be more people
Speaker 1: in AI jobs and less people in certain jobs, you know,
Speaker 1: so it'll all morph. But that's our job to serve
Speaker 1: the client. And of course, you know, I always point
Speaker 1: out that we in the old days, we had you know,
Speaker 1: the big banks were big competitors and the investment banks
Speaker 1: and that was global, different banks in every country. Now
Speaker 1: it's fintech in every country, and they're good. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of these people in Revolute Stripe and Citadel,
Speaker 1: they're quite good. So we have to compete with all
Speaker 1: and a lot of that competition will be technology and AI.
Speaker 1: So we are investing that money to be competitive to
Speaker 1: do a better job for our clients. And if we're
Speaker 1: not fast and nimble, we'll lose.
Speaker 2: And you're false and nimble, right.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we're faster and nimbal Sometimes I feel like we're
Speaker 1: I feel like we're a dinosaur and elephant riding a bronco.
Speaker 2: It is about menpower.
Speaker 3: In the end, we've had the license power menpa, women power.
Speaker 2: It's about the workforce.
Speaker 3: We had from Sena Chanta shedding about eight thousand jobs
Speaker 3: of a spread of three years. We also had metas
Speaker 3: saying it's shutting the same number of people. I mean,
Speaker 3: how are you looking at manpower, women power? How are
Speaker 3: you looking at the workforce on the back of you know,
Speaker 3: advance is being made an effort.
Speaker 1: The most important thing is we do a good job
Speaker 1: for our clients and use AI. Will it change the
Speaker 1: structured jobs? Yes?
Speaker 2: Will?
Speaker 1: I think there's been very few announcements are AI related.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of coming to too much bureaucracy,
Speaker 1: and they may use AI to cover up the fact
Speaker 1: that they should never hire those in the first place.
Speaker 1: But AI is going to change jobs, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think we'll overdo some of our jobs down the road.
Speaker 1: I don't think you'll be all different types of jobs,
Speaker 1: and you have to deploy it at a level like
Speaker 1: I think we'll be hiring more AI people and probably
Speaker 1: less bankers in certain categories, and it'll make them more productive.
Speaker 1: So when you get up in the morning and you
Speaker 1: want to interview someone, it'll lay out what I've said
Speaker 1: in fourteen different places. They'll give you questions. Your job
Speaker 1: will be the same, you'll just be much smarter how
Speaker 1: you execute that job. So, but we will retrain and
Speaker 1: redeploy people. You know, we have ten percent attriction a year,
Speaker 1: which means our headcamp's going down twenty five thirty thousand
Speaker 1: a year, and we are We're gonna be prepared to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: we love these people, they're great, We're gonna take care
Speaker 1: of them. We're going to give them reskilling, new skills,
Speaker 1: better jobs, move them somewhere else, maybe early retirement, and
Speaker 1: then I think society maybe need to do a little
Speaker 1: bit of that, get prepared. In my view, that's got
Speaker 1: to take place locally. So some jobs are across a nation,
Speaker 1: like AI and cyber and maintaining certain types of equipment
Speaker 1: and cars. Other jobs are very specialized. You know, this
Speaker 1: is a mining town, and that's a car manufacturing town,
Speaker 1: and that's a chemical town. And so the local schools
Speaker 1: and that's I mean high schools, community colleges, and colleges
Speaker 1: should work with the local businesses say I'm going to
Speaker 1: give these kids certificates in the twelve weeks or one
Speaker 1: year of training they need to have that job. There
Speaker 1: are going to be eight million trade jobs which pay
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars a year available in the United
Speaker 1: States in the next five years. So we're not helpless.
Speaker 1: We just have to get prepared, kind of have a plan.
Speaker 1: The plan is if it happens too quick, it may not,
Speaker 1: but I might view whatever you think there might be
Speaker 1: a risk, prepare for and if it doesn't happen, so
Speaker 1: be it used to. Most of the stuff you did
Speaker 1: in preparation you should have done anyway.
Speaker 2: I just want to be clear.
Speaker 3: So yours is basically about natural attrition. You're not looking
Speaker 3: to n downsides because of the efficiencies of an E
Speaker 3: that's going to happen.
Speaker 1: It will cause that, but you know that's that happens,
Speaker 1: and that's been having my whole life. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you look at all our jobs, they've always been changing
Speaker 1: how you do jobs. But we will do it to
Speaker 1: do a better job for clients. And yes, it will
Speaker 1: do some jobs. We know that. I can't tell you
Speaker 1: specifically what because you know it's kind of at the
Speaker 1: early stages. It is every app every process, every job
Speaker 1: will be affected, some will be more productive, some will
Speaker 1: be not enough jobs and then will help our people
Speaker 1: have a good career.
Speaker 3: Jimmie, there's been a lot of backlash on social from
Speaker 3: what stunshot CEO The Winters said. He talked about how
Speaker 3: you know AI will wipe out the lower value human capital.
Speaker 3: And a lot of people took issue with how clinical
Speaker 3: and how cold and how perhaps insensitive that was.
Speaker 2: Can you weigh on that?
Speaker 1: I mean, Builds a friend of mine, and all of
Speaker 1: us say something incorrectly, He's already come back into you know,
Speaker 1: taking that back. It was an artful way to say something.
Speaker 1: But I also think it'll be old jobs. I don't
Speaker 1: think it would be higher level, lower level. I think
Speaker 1: it'll be more than you think. But it will also
Speaker 1: create some jobs, so you know, in some ways of
Speaker 1: you if you know, back office jobs disappear, we need
Speaker 1: more front office jobs to cover more clients. So so look,
Speaker 1: you get a lot of noise from this ice O,
Speaker 1: the backlash and data centers and AI. I do think
Speaker 1: it's incumbent about us society to think through if it
Speaker 1: happens too fast, what do we do about it. You
Speaker 1: aren't going to stop at all, you know, and you
Speaker 1: can talk all you want, do the work, get prepared,
Speaker 1: take care of your people, take care of society, and
Speaker 1: I think we'll be okay.
Speaker 3: We hear that you'll be speaking to New York mayor,
Speaker 3: Ma'm donnie along with David Solomon of course we know
Speaker 3: he wants to increase taxes for the wealthy in the city.
Speaker 3: What's the message you're sending him. What will be your
Speaker 3: conversation with you?
Speaker 1: No, I did be with him, and I told him,
Speaker 1: you know exactly all of the great things that Jap
Speaker 1: Morgan does, the employees, the taxes, the philanthropy, the biggest
Speaker 1: in New York, the biggest fofordable lender, how we take
Speaker 1: care of our people, how they all get medical or
Speaker 1: minimum wage of twenty five, just so he understand, and
Speaker 1: that a lot of what we do in New York
Speaker 1: is exported around the world, so it's a huge export
Speaker 1: for the United States, a competitive avantage for the city,
Speaker 1: any competitive avantage for the United States of America. And
Speaker 1: there were good citizens and we always have been known.
Speaker 1: And we talked about affordable housing and childcare, which are
Speaker 1: his two things. Well, of course, you know, anyone I
Speaker 1: know thinks we should do more affordable housing. But I
Speaker 1: told him it's a smart policy that gets that. You
Speaker 1: can say it all you want, but if you watch governments,
Speaker 1: they do some things that have the absolute opposite effect
Speaker 1: what they say. And I can go through exacts. The
Speaker 1: same for childcare it's got to be then right, it's
Speaker 1: got to be effectively, it's got to be place based,
Speaker 1: it's got to work, it's got to be thoughtful and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Every city. But he had read my
Speaker 1: chairman's letter and we went through that every city. He
Speaker 1: has to compete, and they have to compete at every
Speaker 1: level arts, science schools. That is what it is. I'm
Speaker 1: not inventing that he can be an id logue. He
Speaker 1: has to compete too, And we'll see will he learn
Speaker 1: that he's got to make the city a place where
Speaker 1: people want to grow and build and live and have
Speaker 1: families and work. And he's got to compete with Shanghai
Speaker 1: and Hong Kong and Singapore and Nashville. And people vote
Speaker 1: with their feet. So it isn't this morality thing that
Speaker 1: people talk about. It's like, are you building a great
Speaker 1: city of lower crime and stuff like that. Howls. I
Speaker 1: want to point it out that I did mention to
Speaker 1: him because it's important to me that I am against
Speaker 1: racism of all types, including anti Muslim racism, anti Jewish racism,
Speaker 1: which I considered anti semitism, anti Jewish, and I think
Speaker 1: Israel has a right to have a state. So I
Speaker 1: think there's a little confusion between anti Semitism. So you
Speaker 1: may not like what a country's doing. I don't like
Speaker 1: what i Ran is doing. It doesn't make me anti Muslim,
Speaker 1: and so I think we have to be a little
Speaker 1: careful of this. But why, I want to be absolutely clear.
Speaker 1: And he acknowledged it, and he said, I think he
Speaker 1: kind of agrees.
Speaker 3: I want to go back to the Texas that she
Speaker 3: wants to impose. At what point do you think those
Speaker 3: taxes will make New York less competitive? At what point
Speaker 3: do you think you know there'll be an erosion of
Speaker 3: talent within the city.
Speaker 1: I think it's already doing that, you know. And my
Speaker 1: letter I pointed out that these are just numbers. JP
Speaker 1: Morgan when I got there, had thirty five thousand employees
Speaker 1: in New York City and now it's twenty six thousand.
Speaker 1: We had twelve thousand in Texas and now it's thirty
Speaker 1: three thousand. That is because of individual taxes, corporate taxes,
Speaker 1: state taxes, but also the schools in Dallas. They've become
Speaker 1: very good. The life in Dallas. You know, the Dallas
Speaker 1: mayor calls up all the time saying what can I
Speaker 1: do to help you out. I have land over here,
Speaker 1: I have you know, And that is pro business and
Speaker 1: pro people love living there. And that's what New York City.
Speaker 1: New York's a wonderful place too. But that is a
Speaker 1: result when I grew up in New York City. And
Speaker 1: this is an amazing number. In the seventies they had
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty of the fortune, five hundred were
Speaker 1: in New York City in those ten years. Are about
Speaker 1: those ten years, sixty left or failed or immerged out,
Speaker 1: mostly because of things like taxes and crime and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. And those are big names like ge Ibm,
Speaker 1: American Airlines, you know, and and is that what you want?
Speaker 1: You know? And that's what it sees people even want.
Speaker 1: They think that somehow being anti business is going to
Speaker 1: help the city. It's not. So we all want to
Speaker 1: pay fair taxes. Not that's not the point. But at
Speaker 1: one point people vote with their feet. And there are
Speaker 1: a lot of studies that have shown that all these
Speaker 1: people moved out, and they they're obviously the tax obviously
Speaker 1: in New York booming, so you're not gonna see it
Speaker 1: this year's taxes, but a lot of people are paying
Speaker 1: billions dollar taxes left. Why do you want that? How
Speaker 1: does that help the lower paid person in New York?
Speaker 2: Just one final question before we let you go.
Speaker 1: I also want to hear these people talk. But they
Speaker 1: say fair taxes, fair share, what do they mean? Like,
Speaker 1: I agree with the fact that, you know, if up
Speaker 1: to me, I saw Jeff Bezos, who I love, schmash buckling,
Speaker 1: you know, fight, I don't think the lower people make
Speaker 1: it under certain amount have been a tax at all,
Speaker 1: you know, I would agree with that. But when they
Speaker 1: say fair share, what do they mean? I mean they
Speaker 1: should give a number and say that's a fair share.
Speaker 1: So we'll see.
Speaker 3: So what do you make of the beef he has
Speaker 3: mcdoney has with Ken Griffin. I mean, there's been a
Speaker 3: lot of pushback as well.
Speaker 1: From my view is I need to speak to him
Speaker 1: about that. I think he realized he made a mistake
Speaker 1: in naming Ken, vilifying a name and a person, and
Speaker 1: you know Villa and even Villa, you know, my grand
Speaker 1: perhaps with all Greek immigrants. Okay, you know, I've been
Speaker 1: working my ass off now for a long time. I
Speaker 1: think vilifying people, simplifying arguments, you know, even if you
Speaker 1: think it's politically is a bad idea. And I think
Speaker 1: he probably realizes that was a bit. It's probably why
Speaker 1: he's seeing a bunch of us now. And I'd like
Speaker 1: to maybe have a better relays with the business community.
Speaker 1: But we'll all be doing to the same thing. What
Speaker 1: does he do. I don't care what he says. What
Speaker 1: does he do? I will judge that and so well
Speaker 1: what actually happens, because you can have you can talk
Speaker 1: about morality and ideology all you want, but if things
Speaker 1: don't get better, you didn't do a good job. And
Speaker 1: my view, and I'm talking about him now, I have
Speaker 1: seen mayors who make statements and they make it worse
Speaker 1: and worse and worse, you know, and they don't know
Speaker 1: they can't get in the details of why why is
Speaker 1: the foible housing not there anymore? Why does not work?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And so I you know, hopefully he'll learn. I want
Speaker 1: him to do a good job. I'm not against him.
Speaker 3: So, Jamie, I've been REMISSI not to ask you about China.
Speaker 3: We are in China, after all, we saw that. I
Speaker 3: guess one chemistry between the two leaders, just you being
Speaker 3: as role Donerald Trump, does that change your perspective on China?
Speaker 3: And perhaps you know the appetite for investments here.
Speaker 1: Not really. Look, I think I look, we have China
Speaker 1: and America have real differences, and I think these wars
Speaker 1: also highlight that, you know, America, we want Ukraine to
Speaker 1: end up as a free and democratic date. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I don't know about the war, but
Speaker 1: I'd like to see i Ran end up without nuclear
Speaker 1: weapons and no one controlling the straits of her moves.
Speaker 1: And so object to the notion that somehow Iran was
Speaker 1: in the threat. They've been killing and murdering people for
Speaker 1: forty seven years. That's not a threat, okay. And a
Speaker 1: lot of Americans, a lot of Muslims, a lot of Jews,
Speaker 1: a lot of other people. They've been having proxy wars,
Speaker 1: you know, for forty I don't know why you allow
Speaker 1: these proxy war thing. So that makes it more complicated.
Speaker 1: But put Taiwan aside, America and China a lot in common, okay.
Speaker 1: We want to help our people. You know, you've this
Speaker 1: country's grown dramatically. I think that's a wonderful thing. We
Speaker 1: have a lot of common interests and anti terrorism, anti
Speaker 1: nuclear proliferation, proper the proper control of some of these
Speaker 1: ai thinks that can damnage society. So they should engage
Speaker 1: all the time at every level. You know, work out
Speaker 1: the trade differences. There were gonna be some real differences
Speaker 1: in that, and then you know, have a good proper relationship.
Speaker 1: I think it's good for both pay I think it's
Speaker 1: good for the world. You know, the world has got
Speaker 1: to deal with these two huge, powerful countries and we
Speaker 1: should help each other. And they help the world and
Speaker 1: so well. So I like the fact that they did,
Speaker 1: like PLoud, they're doing it.
Speaker 2: What's the biggest rust for the Chinese economy right now?
Speaker 1: You think the Chinese economy. You know, they've been very
Speaker 1: smart imagine their economy for years. But I would say
Speaker 1: too much reliance on exports. They know that that's been
Speaker 1: their plans. That's that irritates a lot of the countries
Speaker 1: around the world. I think that there are neighbors around
Speaker 1: the site China see are getting quite upset with about
Speaker 1: their behaving the South China see, not because of anything
Speaker 1: that America does and trade. We should work out trade
Speaker 1: in a way that doesn't damage the global economy. So
Speaker 1: but I look, they've been quite and also some of
Speaker 1: the cap allocation in real estate and some of the
Speaker 1: local stuff. But my experience with the Chinese that they
Speaker 1: kind of know these issues and they kind of go
Speaker 1: about attacking them strategically correctly over time.
Speaker 3: But is there a sense that China has become somewhat
Speaker 3: of a safe haven given you know, all the chaos
Speaker 3: elsewhere in the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's yes, but it's somewhat artificial. I mean,
Speaker 1: America is still a safe have. I mean just we
Speaker 1: just surprised people, you know that recently. But we're still
Speaker 1: probably one of the safest countries in the world, the
Speaker 1: best investment destination in the world, the most secure rule
Speaker 1: of law. When you give you a dollar, you can
Speaker 1: do whatever you want with it. But China has become
Speaker 1: a large, important country and I applaud that. I'm not
Speaker 1: against that, and they, of course think that they're more
Speaker 1: they're more consistent with other countries that've been true a
Speaker 1: little bit recently. That's not forever, that's recently.
Speaker 2: But is that changing the perception of investors though? I mean,
Speaker 2: are they looking to China.
Speaker 1: As a little bit But if I was an investor,
Speaker 1: I'd always be looking at place like China, you know,
Speaker 1: have you know, when you look at China, when any
Speaker 1: investor comes here, you just have to be impressed with
Speaker 1: their cars and their batteries and their solar and their
Speaker 1: machine tools and their capability. So of course that's how
Speaker 1: investors are seeking out opportunities around the world. There'll be
Speaker 1: plenty of opportunities here.
Speaker 3: I've been messaged and I was still to wrap it up.
Speaker 3: Jamie all is at Playure like if you're joining us
Speaker 3: on jamis Folks Shaman and CEO of JP Mogan Chase