WEBVTT - An Underwhelming Robotaxi Rollout, X Strong-arms Advertisers 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:07.000 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:09.520 Let me tell you we have a new star. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.680 A star is born Elon On Mars Juthan Kennemy. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.520 He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.040 Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:21.800 I feel for the guy. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.319 I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:26.920 But those two percent. 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.880 That are nasty, they are our pit in four post. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.280 We were meant for great things in the United States 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.640 of America, and Elon reminds us of that. 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:37.400 I'm very disappointed in Elan. 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:38.640 I've helped Elon a lot. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.960 Welcome to Elan and Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.880 It's Tuesday, June twenty fourth. I'm your host, David Popadopoulos. 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.959 So over the weekend, while the world was transfixed by 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:01.600 the war raging in the Middle East, US quietly rolled 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:05.399 out the Tesla robotaxi on the mean streets of Austin, Texas. 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.280 It didn't stay quiet for long though. In fact, it 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:11.080 sounded a little like. 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:15.679 This, This is a big day for Tesla robo taxi 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:17.679 experience is. 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:18.720 About to be crazy. 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:24.280 We are fastened, we have our location here estimated rival 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.240 start ride. Our ride is complete, but it looks like 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.800 the Robotaxi is waiting for its next call. 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.440 Bloomberg EV reporter Kara Carlson was there for it all, 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.440 and she makes her elon Ink debut today to tell 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:40.480 us about it. Welcome to the show, Kara. 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:41.360 Yeah, thanks for having me. 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:45.600 Then later on, our man Kurt Wagner, just off the 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.520 plane from the French Riviera, will join us to break 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:53.600 down Ex's participation or perhaps absence, from the all important 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.560 Lions Advertising Festival. Of course, an episode of elon Ink 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.760 ain't an episode of elon Ink without the pre one, 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:01.960 Max Chafkin. 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.320 I was wondering who if you were going to introduce 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.560 me or what here? I was very patiently. 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.960 You were nervous, worried. All right, So Max will have 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:15.400 for you today, in no particular order, reports on enchiladas, 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:21.360 exploding rockets in Musk's odd computer situation. But we do 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:25.080 indeed start in Austin with you, Kara. You were there 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.920 for the launch on Sunday. What did you see? 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.120 Yeah, so I started off bright and early. 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.640 You know, six am is when they were potentially going 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:38.120 to start launching, So I didn't see any four hours 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.880 they end up launching it about too. But I live 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.280 in one of the neighborhoods they're launching, so I actually 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.040 was seeing some of their vehicles just driving around, you know, 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.359 my neighborhood streets in the morning as we were waiting 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:52.280 and watching streams. I ended up watching the first three 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:54.959 rides through the stream of some of these people with 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.280 early access before heading out, and there was only a 0:02:58.320 --> 0:02:59.799 few cars out, so it was actually a bit of 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:01.959 a game to try to find any of them. 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:06.240 Okay, So in other words, like there was no starter gun, 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:11.520 there was no pomp and circumstance or a hype man, 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.800 there was no musk, there was nothing that said the 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:15.040 Robotaxi launch. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:15.200 No. 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.880 Suddenly they just started popping up here and there. 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:22.160 Yeah, they've been in areas of south and southeast Austin 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.680 for a few months now. They're not labeled Robotaxi, the 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.080 ones they've been using for testing. They're just model wise 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:31.720 that they just recently refreshed. And I started noticing there's 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:33.920 a lot with you know, manufacturer plates just kind of 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:37.160 popping up. Sometimes they had some roof racks with sensors 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.920 on them. They're just kind of driving around. I think, 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:42.600 you know, Elon Musk said, they're driving around in circles, 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.360 and that really is what some of these neighborhoods have 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:45.840 felt like we. 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.320 Should probably just like lay out the basics of this launch. 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.320 Kara mentioned it very small number of cars. I think 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:55.280 we think, what like about ten, Tara, is that right. 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.120 About ten to twenty? I would say from what I observed, 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.000 that feels like the right number. And that's what Tesla's 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:00.680 said before. 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.360 I feel like you maybe saw every single one of them. 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:05.960 Very small area, I mean, you know, it doesn't include 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:12.120 downtown Austin. And really importantly, there was a safety monitor 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:16.640 in the passenger seat, which so a guy sitting in 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:21.120 the passenger seat, not behind the wheel, but somehow babysitting 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:24.159 in the car. In a lot of these videos, the 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.960 safety monitor has his finger on a button which I 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:33.400 think most people assume is an emergency brake. Yeah, it's 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.120 the it's the button that kills you if you tweet 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:38.400 something mean about the ROBOTAXI while you're in it. 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.880 Uh wait, women, so literally the whole time he or 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:47.240 she has their finger like just hovering over the button. 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.279 Yeah, or or just kind of on it. It seems 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.600 like there may have been some other types of you know, 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.360 controls or ways to provide input in the vehicle. You 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:59.320 also have, at least according to statements that that Musk 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.800 and others have made you know, on the earnings call, 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.560 some tele operation as well, So they're probably in addition 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.200 to that safety monitor is a guy sitting at a 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:13.640 desk watching the ride who is also able to intervene 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:15.479 one way or another world. I don't think we know 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.680 exactly what that intervention could be. It could be anywhere 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:24.680 from sort of giving the ROBOTAXI some commands or suggestions 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:26.720 all the way to you know, maybe a steering wheel 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:28.720 or whatever where where that person could literally take you. 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.960 But we don't know exactly what That tele operation. 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.040 A lot of supervision. Now, obviously the idea is at 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:37.000 some point, once this thing gets you know, a little 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:39.159 more experience out there, the training wheels come off and 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.520 it's out on its own in the wild. Now, Kara, 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:46.080 who got to take these initial rides? Was it just 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.159 picking up random strangers on the street. 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:52.159 So Friday night, a bunch of Tesla influencers and retail investors, 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.080 and these are accounts that you know, really are interacting 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:57.120 with Elon Musk get interacting with a lot of like 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.679 Tesla News at all times. That's kind of whole brand. 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:04.000 Got emails that said you have early access to the 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.200 Robotaxi starting Sunday, and then you know, some other Tesla 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.520 fans ended up coming in and kind of going as 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:10.440 their plus ones. 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:11.880 They were allowed one guest per. 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.719 Ride, but it was really just a handful of pretty 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:16.480 loyal influencers for the most part. 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.040 These are not like automotive influencers like we've seen Elon 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:24.520 Musk kind of include like these sort of YouTubers who 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.560 review cars and stuff in at you know, at at 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.480 at earnings calls and so on. This was like Elon 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:34.719 Musk influencers. These are people who are very, very very 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:39.000 enthusiastically on the Musk train, which Karen and I found 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.520 out when we tried to be asked them if they 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.680 would take us as their their plus one and were 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.000 at least in my chance in hell, yeah, repeatedly denied. 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.479 Right, Well, I can't blame them in your case now, 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.359 I don't care. I'm just getting to know you. But 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:55.640 in Max's case, yeah no, I also wouldn't ride in 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.240 a vehicle with you, all right, So how in general 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:04.400 these vehicles perform and how are they continuing to perform. 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.680 There has been there have been some videos that have 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:14.400 started to go a bit viral about some unconventional, shall 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:18.280 we say, driving techniques. But on the whole and these 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:19.840 things held up okay so far. 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.480 They drive pretty much as any other car. 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.200 They you know, they were doing pretty predictable driving behavior 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.160 when we were following them around. But there have been 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:31.040 a few videos that have shown some concerning behavior. There's 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.280 been some mild speeding, you know, a few miles over 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.320 the limit, which people are you know, humans too too, 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.880 but it is strange for a robotaxi to speed typically. 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.800 There's been one instance that a lot of people have 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.640 poined us particularly concerning. So there's a vehicle that was 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.360 starting to turn left, peared to maybe decided it was 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.000 going to go straight instead, and the spearing wheel really 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.440 jerked around and it started to go straight instead, and 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.000 it was going in the wrong direction, in the wrong 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.440 lane for a few seconds there and then. 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.160 Got well, wait, so it was going into potentially into 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.800 oncoming traffic, did go it did go in downcom then, 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.920 but then it got it right two hours later, figured 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:10.160 it out. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.600 It got back into them. 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:14.480 Well that doesn't sound good. 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:16.960 I mean, I almost feel like I don't need to 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:20.600 say this, but this is very much a demonstration, in 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:25.680 a very controlled demonstration, so we're evaluating it. So so 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:27.560 part of why Kara is bringing up these like what 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.440 they sound like very minor examples, and they are, except that, like, 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.480 this is a situation where you're where there is a 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.440 ton of monitoring, where they're where the roots have been 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.280 traveled over many times, where it's like a very controlled 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.840 and we're even getting the information we're getting from these 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.920 rides is also very controlled because it's being filtered through 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:53.959 these fans. But the thing is, like what they've done 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.760 here really is a long way from what Elon Musk 0:08:57.800 --> 0:08:59.720 has said they're going to do, and what he said 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.080 they're going to do, just to remind people, is to 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:07.040 be able to have any tesla anywhere driving around unsupervised. 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.680 None of that is true right now. There is a 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.920 very small geographic area, a very small fleet, and there 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.040 is a ton of supervision, and I think it would 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.880 have been it would have been surprising if something really 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:24.040 bad happened with these tests. Even these minor, you know, 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.360 screw ups are a little bit surprising just because again, 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.720 this is not all that different from what we saw 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.920 in October, you know on the soundstage, right, it's just 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.559 like a charger version of that thing, and which, okay, 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.520 maybe that's some progress, but still. 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.880 Right, which gets me to the next point, Cara, which 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:46.480 is despite how sort of you know, just okay, this 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:51.040 whole launch seemed the stock really popped yesterday Tesla stock 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:54.160 did it? It rallied eight percent, which by Tesla standards 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.200 because it's a very volatile stock, it's not some enormous move, 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.400 and yet eight percent is eight percent. It's certainly did 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:05.080 not go down, So I guess the market market's first 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.400 take is like, wow, this is great, big hit. 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.000 Yeah, I mean, this is an event that people have 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.959 been waiting years and years for. Elon Musk has really 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:17.120 bet the entire company on autonomy, on AI, on the 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.400 ability to launch a network like this, and investors are 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:21.640 just glad it's meeting that mark on. 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.120 A lot of levels. They will be closely watching to 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.120 see if it actually can scale from here. 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.959 Is something that even the most polish investers are really 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:29.880 keeping an eye on right now. 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.840 Though, Yeah, I mean, is is ten percent in a 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.480 day for Tesla a huge move. That's like it's like 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:37.600 a Wednesday or something. 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.200 You know, it's nothing. Esha Day Bloomberg Tesla reporter told 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:42.959 me she doesn't even get up for an eight percent move. 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.600 She's Tesla, right, you yeah, for most other stocks, but no, 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:47.880 so yes, correct. 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:52.120 Look, the other thing is for this stock, eight percent 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.760 is not a huge jump. This is a very volatile stock. 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.480 But also like there were versions of this day that 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.840 could have been a lot worse. Right, One thing that 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.160 has surprised me, frankly, is how cautious Elon Musk is 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:08.920 being with this launch, like it in certain ways, like, yes, 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.360 he's putting these cars that in a lot of ways 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:14.520 don't seem to do the thing that he says they're 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.640 do on public roads. On the other hand, he's kept 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.960 this to be a very modest demo, I think, much 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.600 more modest than anybody believed or anybody would have thought. 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.000 Like he's he's talking about teleoperation, which is something that 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.720 it hadn't talked about before, or he had said if 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.080 if there was tele operation, that would be a bad sign. 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:34.720 So in other words, like he's being safe at least 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.480 or maybe safer than he otherwise could have been or 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.000 some of his actions like we didn't see as you know, 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.800 maybe concerning or whatever. As the incident we talked about 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.240 with the Tesla crossing over the double line is you know, 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.880 there wasn't anything worse. So maybe it's slightly beat expectations 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:52.760 that some people had. 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.599 I do think apparently the bar was pretty damn. 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.560 Well, I'm say a very low bar. But I'm they're 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:02.360 also maybe like the enthusiasm may fade because like the 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.959 novelty here of being able to drive like from one 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.480 end of part of Austin to the other, it's is 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:08.120 gonna face. 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.480 Yeah, it's like the boring company right where you can 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:12.480 go from what I want. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.200 One end of the yea from the Las Vegas Convention 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:16.720 Center to the resorts world. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.360 You know, Max, last week when you launched your acronym 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:21.560 a report. 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:26.280 Talking about mammoot or Madra, there were multiple, right, there 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:27.920 were two, you had two. It was a two fer. 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.400 I must forgot about Madra no when you were Okay, 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.520 so when you were launching your acronyms, a bit of 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.880 a riff on Taco, Trump always chickens out. Hence uh 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:44.760 stock investors by stocks, we had asked our listeners our 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.480 legions of listeners to put forth any ideas they may 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.480 have for acronyms that could improve upon if such a 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.440 thing could be done that would improve upon mammoot. And 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:56.960 you know we got a brilliant idea. 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:01.360 Yeah, we got some fun responses. My favorite and Grant, 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.720 who responded with a lot of good ideas, but also 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:09.280 complaining that we hadn't seen that he had his own acronym, 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.400 which was enchilagaha. 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.520 Way, so he launched it. He alleges he launched it before. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:21.040 Unfortunately, the time stamps uh confirm his his his launch 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:26.120 uh elon never completes his innovative level for autonomous driving 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:27.960 announcements enchilada. 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:28.520 Uh. 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.559 This guy obviously, you know, something of a bear. I 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:35.640 would I would guess. He also, in response to mamoot, 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:41.040 which he thought was, you know, insufficiently creative, uh, suggested 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.120 a few others with the help I believe of chat Ept, 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:49.200 including and now these are replacements for mamoot, which was 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:53.439 musk always makes up with Trump. These include kso Coral 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:59.120 until eventually snuggling online salsa spats are loud. Still amigos 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:06.199 guawk grudges usually aren't consistent. Burrito billionaires ultimately reconcile, regardless 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:10.960 of Internet tempestuous outbursts. None of them are perfect. But Grant, 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.920 thank you Grants for these ideas. They are all hilarious, 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.560 and I regret missing Enchilada. 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:19.080 Grant's given this a lot of thought. 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:20.160 I know a lot to work with. 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.720 I like just about all of them, Enchillada in particular 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.160 because there's a just a mouthful quile. It's very long, 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:32.840 it's slightly incomprehensible. Elon never completes his innovative level four 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:37.200 autonomous driving announcements. That's all good, But Kara, now that 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:42.920 the robotaxi is is roaming the streets of Austin, is 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.840 that still true? Is en shallota truer? Was the acronym 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:51.360 launched only immediately to be vanquished, defeated and go away? 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.280 I think it depends on kind of where we go 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:54.760 from here. 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:56.440 No, no, no, no, no, depends well. 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.000 Level of autonomy they're using. 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.720 They haven't actually revealed a lot about what kind of 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:02.760 the text stack behind this. 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.280 Looks like level four autonomy is like a lot of 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:06.920 are you doing it. 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.120 Without any kind of supervision? I don't think this counts. 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.480 He's good, Kara, You think there's even a question here. 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:16.240 I think we need to wait and see what level 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.400 of autonomy they claim it to be, and they will 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.040 have to self report in the very least suite to Texas. 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.200 Well, wait a minute, but if there's a dude in 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:29.000 the vehicle with his finger always hovering over the emergency 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.200 eject button, I don't know. I mean that doesn't sound 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:37.040 I think Grant's good. I think is good now for now. Okay, 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:38.960 very good, Cara. We will talk again soon. 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:39.800 So good. 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.680 We are now joined by Bloomberg ex reporter Kurt Wagner. Kurt, 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:50.240 welcome back to the show. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.520 Hi David, thank you for having me, so. 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:54.280 Listen, Kurt. Let me just get this out of the 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.400 way and get it off my chest. But fuck you, Kurt. 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:02.040 Okay, Max and I been sweating it out on the 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:06.080 mean streets of Manhattan, earning an honest living, and you're 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.960 sipping Royal vespers and taking in the sea breeze at 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:11.120 La Belle Epoc. 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.360 What kind of gig is this that you have? 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.360 I feel like this wasn't even the worst introduction you've 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.120 ever given me on this show, so I feel like, 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.480 you know, by that standard, I'm actually moving up in 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.080 the world. That's right, David. While you were sweating here 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.000 in New York, I was sweating in the south of France. 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.960 And it's a hard life out there, you know, you 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.240 get up early at the meetings. 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.200 You know, looking out at the French River. 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.800 I expect you to understand. But yes, I was at 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.080 Canlon's last week, the Wonderful Advertising Festival. For those who 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:48.080 are unfamiliar, it's essentially everybody in the world who is 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.080 involved in the ad industry, from you know, the big 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.920 players like the Metas and Youtubes and Googles of the world, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:58.000 to these agencies to the creators who are now making 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.120 a living on this. They all show up and and 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.200 spend a week together sort of cutting deals and boondoggling 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:04.879 and all that kind of stuff. So it was a 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:05.280 good time. 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.679 Now, what was Ex's presence there, because I feel like 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:14.240 just last year its presence was kind of odd, unique, 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:16.160 and how did it play out this year? 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.720 So last year was interesting because Elon showed up himself 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.359 and I believe he did a keynote with WPP, one 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.600 of the largest ad agencies in the world, I believe, 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.680 the largest ad agency, and he kind of signaled, hey, 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.440 this is important to me by physically showing up and 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:38.720 giving his time. In years past, X formerly known as Twitter, 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:43.040 had literally like a beachside setup, you know, they set 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.760 up there was a concerts that they had, they would 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.720 hold the all there. I was. That was back in 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.240 the day. This was you know, pre COVID. When I 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.800 was there this week, I did not see a single 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:01.720 X branded sign throughout the entire conference. Just to give 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.480 you a sense, like TikTok took over an entire hotel, 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.479 essentially Meta takes over multiple floors of a hotel, has 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:12.879 a giant beachside thing, you know, like everyone is throwing 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.600 their logo in your face. Essentially you can't walk down 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.800 the street without seeing these things, just just like right 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.240 in front of you. X was nowhere to be seen. 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:22.879 And I thought that was very notable. 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.760 So how do I interpret this, Kurt? Are they just 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:27.320 giving up? What does this mean? 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:28.639 So there's two ways. 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.520 I think there's a I'll give maybe the positive X 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.359 version and the more critical X version. 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:33.800 I think the. 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.040 Positive is it's not very doge to go to can 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:38.360 right like it is not. 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:40.760 For all the reasons I stated at the time. 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.680 Yeah, yeah, Saysten, we're cutting We're cutting into it a 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:46.720 little bit. Okay, fine, I'll admit it's not the most 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:51.280 doge thing to go to. Can It's it's definitely a show, right, 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.280 It's a it's a bit of a circus. And so 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.920 if you are X and Elon is running your company, 0:18:58.040 --> 0:18:59.439 maybe the last thing you want to do is be 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.240 seen out here kind of frivolously spending money for a 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.359 Diplo concert on the beach. I shouldn't say that Yahoo 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.320 hosted a Diplo concert. I did go and it was 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.360 pretty fun, so, you know, sorry for sorry to use 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.480 that as the example. Yah was a great time. But 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.040 my point is like, maybe Elon is not wanting to 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.880 be seen doing that kind of stuff right now. That's 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.000 the positive like reason why X might not be visible. 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.560 The more negative is that, quite frankly, they either don't 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.480 have the money to do those kinds of things or 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.560 they're no longer in that tier as an advertiser. 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:31.880 What do you mean they don't have the money there? 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.040 They're a unit of Xai. Xai has got money coming 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:35.560 out the ear. 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.399 When I hear about Kurt talking about X's advertising business, 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:41.240 I have that feeling of when you hear about a 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.760 really old celebrity who you thought had already passed away 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.080 like years ago. Like it's like, oh yeah, X has 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:52.119 an advertising is I completely forgot because David, like you said, 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.200 they are now part of Xai, and it really seems 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:00.600 like this whole part, you know, this whole soilent. 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:05.120 They're simply soilent for the Xai robots. 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:07.240 Not necessarily the metaphor I would have used, but yes, 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:08.520 that's exactly what I mean. 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:10.920 That's the cynical way to look at it, right, is 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.879 that x is sort of now the you know, the 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.479 any money they make is sort of bravy, and it's 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:19.960 the back burner to this much more important thing, which 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.320 is that they're using the data to power Xai and 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.280 that's really all that matters. And so you know, if 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.480 that's the way that that X is, it's certainly nowhere 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.479 near the kind of top of the conversation that it 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.920 was several years ago in the advertising industry. But maybe 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:35.520 it has a different purpose now to your point. 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:41.080 But now, Max, it just said a minute ago that 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:45.560 oh my god, right, X advertising, you know, it's just 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:49.000 a corpse, it's a cadaver. It's it's it's long since past. 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.879