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Speaker 1: From UFOs two, Ghosts and government cover ups. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. If you've heard the intro music, hopefully

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Speaker 1: that means you're in the right place. I'm Ben and

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Speaker 1: I null and most importantly, you're you and you're here,

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Speaker 1: which makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Now.

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Speaker 1: This episode has a lot of stuff going on, and

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Speaker 1: hopefully you'll find it as interesting as we do. But

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Speaker 1: before we get to the dark heart of today's topic,

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Speaker 1: we have some very big news. Uh, ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: Matt Frederick has returned. That is right, I have returned.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome, Welcome, that's Frederick. Thank you. Noticed

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Speaker 1: I'm it is you, though right, you're not vampire dressed

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Speaker 1: up as our friend Matt. I cannot confirm or deny that.

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Speaker 1: Are you a replicant? That is perhaps I am so

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Speaker 1: sleep deprived at this moment. Seriously, two and a half

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Speaker 1: hours last night, and I tried very hard to get

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Speaker 1: some sleep last night and it did not happen. So

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Speaker 1: perhaps this is an inkling of Matt Frederick. Now, Matt,

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Speaker 1: is that because vampires don't actually sleep at night? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't armchair biologists? Or is it because of something else.

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Speaker 1: That's the little thing we talked about before. You know, babies, babies,

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Speaker 1: babies everywhere. Did you tend to make sounds at odd hours? Yes?

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Speaker 1: They do, and I have found out that my wife

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Speaker 1: sleeps right through those sounds, and I do not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do not. But I also am terrified to where

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Speaker 1: earplugs or something just in case something does go wrong

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Speaker 1: or I need to hear that sound. So at this point,

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Speaker 1: I'm just kind of living with it. You know, It's

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Speaker 1: all good. Though. Do you have one of those new

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Speaker 1: fangled video baby monitors or you get that stay yet? Not?

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Speaker 1: We I have one. It's not a new fangled point.

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Speaker 1: It's literally a security camera that I can broadcast essentially

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Speaker 1: over bluetooth a couple of other things. So I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: use that with frequency Watch your baby. You know what

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Speaker 1: Christians Sacer guest on our show today. I'm gonna get

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Speaker 1: to that later. I'm not even gonna address that comment

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Speaker 1: right now. No, Christie raises like a good point, because

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Speaker 1: when you say security camera does sound like you think

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Speaker 1: your baby's gonna steal or something. Oh yeah, well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, look, I'm not gonna say anything against Mr.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say his name. I don't know have

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Speaker 1: I said his name before on here. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that you've spoken his name. I don't think I'm going to.

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Speaker 1: I have a son, Mr. Ms, which is a mosquito

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Speaker 1: service in Atlanta. I don't know if anybody knows that.

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Speaker 1: Oh I get it, like a like a miss to

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Speaker 1: PESTI said, miss. There we go. We have also, as

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Speaker 1: you could tell, buried the lead a little bit, because

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Speaker 1: we do have a fourth person on the show today

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Speaker 1: who just got introduced to you. Um, but we're going

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Speaker 1: to We're going to do it again because we love

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Speaker 1: introducing this guy. You'll remember him from some earlier episodes

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Speaker 1: that we have done. Our our friend and colleague, co

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Speaker 1: host of Stuff Deploy your Mind, writer of numerous things,

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Speaker 1: here at how Stuff Works one more time for Christian Seger.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here on this

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Speaker 1: momentous occasion. And I didn't realize that in the Stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know that they were Nazi

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Speaker 1: vampires sometimes Nazi replicant. Okay, Nazi replicant vampires. Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad to be here to learn the deep dark secret.

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Speaker 1: There's this, there's another leader bearing slightly? Is that with

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Speaker 1: you know, no explanation. Last week's episode was Matt was back. Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's a very came back. It was a John Tyder

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Speaker 1: moment and discuss it um and just you know, just

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Speaker 1: to shed a little light on that. That was an

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Speaker 1: episode we had recorded right before Matt took his leave,

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Speaker 1: and um, it's the first in this series is that

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Speaker 1: we're working on. So one of the last things I

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Speaker 1: want to say before we get into the meat of

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Speaker 1: this is a huge thank you to super producer Noel

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Speaker 1: brown Stiff for taking over and just being awesome on

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Speaker 1: the show. Thank you Ben for basically helming everything while

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Speaker 1: I was gone, from the videos to you know, the

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Speaker 1: podcast everything. Thank you Christian for making sure the house,

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Speaker 1: how stuff works, headquarters you know, is in order. Every

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Speaker 1: single thing, everything, everything's fine. Did you you realize it

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Speaker 1: sounds a little like an awards speech, right? Okay, So

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Speaker 1: I also want to thank you. I'm no academy. Also

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Speaker 1: want to thank Mr Mr Mr Mr for having those

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Speaker 1: signs that I noticed and stayed in my head until

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Speaker 1: I came on this podcast. So also rock Star Energy

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Speaker 1: Drink for keeping me awake when I have to be

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Speaker 1: a little native advertising. Yeah there, you know you like that.

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Speaker 1: Give me some free energy drinks please. That's where the

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Speaker 1: money comes from. People, stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: That's right. The vampire Nazis drink Monster Energy drinks. It's

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Speaker 1: the only thing it's replaced blood. Uh, not just in

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Speaker 1: matts system, not just mats circulatory system, but in that

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Speaker 1: of Nazi vampire, Nazi replicant vampire around the world. So guys,

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Speaker 1: we're uh, we're several minutes into the beginning show. And

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Speaker 1: it's good that we started out with some levity and

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Speaker 1: some friends returning and well met, because today we are

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Speaker 1: we are going into a dark subject. We're returning to one.

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Speaker 1: You will recall listeners that if you're listening to these

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Speaker 1: podcasts in order, previously we started the can we get

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Speaker 1: like a previously who's got a good voice? Previously stuff

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Speaker 1: that they don't want you to know. Boy, that was

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Speaker 1: that was great, you guys, so previous we did the

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Speaker 1: we did this topic earlier. The people that asked us

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Speaker 1: about you had asked us over Twitter Facebook YouTube comments

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Speaker 1: to cover the so called Highway of Tears. And while

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Speaker 1: we were looking into that in this series with with

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Speaker 1: another Fritish show Scott Benjamin Christian, we started talking off

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Speaker 1: air about other disturbing things related to serial killers and

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Speaker 1: we found and we found, um, what's I guess worse

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Speaker 1: than disturbing. We found some horrifying things about serial killers

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Speaker 1: on the loose. Yeah, I'll put it this way. So

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Speaker 1: we've also done a video about this subject, which I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming is gonna be live by the time this podcast

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Speaker 1: is really will correspond, Yes, yes, perfect, So you can

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Speaker 1: go watch that video and here's a little behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes for you. We went were very jocular, as you've

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Speaker 1: just heard. We went in to go shoot that episode

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Speaker 1: and just could not muster the humor that we normally

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Speaker 1: have because it's a very dark topic and it really

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Speaker 1: kind of brought brought the tone down. Uh so that

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Speaker 1: the video, the video is like the dark sister to

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Speaker 1: this podcast, BROB. But I think too, I mean, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about a lot of the same subject sure today. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I also think that it's kind of fascinating though in

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Speaker 1: its own way, in that true crime and serial killers

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Speaker 1: and especially uncaught serial killers. The stories behind them, I think,

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Speaker 1: are they they encapsulate something about American culture. I don't,

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Speaker 1: I can't put my finger on it, but they encapsulate

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Speaker 1: something about it at these like moments in time that

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Speaker 1: are kind of perfect. Have you ever read um Norman

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Speaker 1: Mailer's The Executioners Song before? Oh wow? Yeah, a long

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Speaker 1: time ago. It's just this great, uh true crime book.

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Speaker 1: It's it's nonfiction. Actually, I'm sure he you know, put

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Speaker 1: some hyperbole in their huge book, but about a guy

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Speaker 1: responsible for murder on death row and uh, just a

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Speaker 1: great way to capture kind of this particular moment in

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Speaker 1: American history. And I feel the same way about some

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Speaker 1: of these stories that we're about to tell today, although

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Speaker 1: they're not only in American, are they? Right? Absolutely we

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Speaker 1: have also we've also seen similar things such as the

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Speaker 1: Devil in the White City, Right, yeah, that's another one's

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Speaker 1: droughing welfare, the way that John Wayne Gacy fundamentally altered

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Speaker 1: the Western perception of clowns, and it's probably responsible for

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Speaker 1: a lot of uh cooro phobia. I think it's the word.

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Speaker 1: So I have an a side that will maybe help

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Speaker 1: us out here. I have a friend who is currently

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Speaker 1: staying in a clown motel in the desert. I believe

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Speaker 1: it's in Arizona for one month. What is a clown motel?

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Speaker 1: A clown themed motel in the middle of the desert.

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Speaker 1: He raised money on Kickstarter to do this. Okay, he's

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Speaker 1: staying there and writing about his experiences and uh. Part

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Speaker 1: of the Kickstarter the rewards was that he has to

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Speaker 1: dress up like a clown every once in a while

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Speaker 1: in his room. Just sit there. I mean we've all

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Speaker 1: done that, right, guys. Yeah, sure, I've one last side

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Speaker 1: on this. Um. My wife showed me a picture two

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Speaker 1: weeks ago of one of her best friends who was

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Speaker 1: hanging out a bar because she was moving away from Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: and it was like their goodbye party. There was a

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Speaker 1: gentleman drinking alone at the bar, and all that he

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about was this picture he had on

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Speaker 1: his cell phone, an old picture that he'd taken a

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Speaker 1: picture of of him as a kid and John Wayne

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Speaker 1: Gacy at his birthday party, making blome him. I remember

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Speaker 1: you telling me about this, or maybe you shared it.

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Speaker 1: I don't. I think she may be shared. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. It was Chandler, our coworker.

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Speaker 1: He was there. He was there and he told me

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Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, very strange, and it's it's also strange

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Speaker 1: when you consider that what we're going to examine now

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Speaker 1: will be the likelihood of a serial killer uncaught running

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Speaker 1: free range swear in your town, swearing your neck of

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Speaker 1: the woods. And we'll take a look at the statistics

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Speaker 1: and the facts here. But you've probably had this thought before,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, guys, Well, Matt Christian, have you ever

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Speaker 1: been in a crowd and thought, you know, I wonder

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Speaker 1: what the worst thing someone has done in this crowd is.

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Speaker 1: Because it's true that it's more difficult to get away

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Speaker 1: with murder nowadays than it was, you know, when our

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Speaker 1: parents or grandparents were our age. But it's a it's

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Speaker 1: paranoid thought. The good news is that serial killers, as

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Speaker 1: we're going to find, are relatively rare birds in the

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Speaker 1: gray aviary of crime. Right, But what so? First off,

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Speaker 1: like Matt, what is a serial killer? Serial killer as

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Speaker 1: defined by the FBI's Crime Classification Manual. It essentially says

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Speaker 1: that they have to kill in several places, so at

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Speaker 1: least three places during different events, and there has to

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Speaker 1: be a cooling off period in between these deaths, these killings. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and that's it's a commonly accepted definition at least. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that is, when the FBI says, hey, we're going to

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Speaker 1: define this crime as this, then generally I go, okay, FBI.

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Speaker 1: You know what's something that I hadn't thought about until now,

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Speaker 1: and I think could bear some further research from maybe

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Speaker 1: another episode. Is that the FBI is defining that serial

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Speaker 1: killer feels like a very American phenomenon. Right. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it's not. I'm sure it happens in plenty of other countries,

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Speaker 1: but I wonder how it's defined and other cultures, and

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Speaker 1: especially since we're going by that classification, right, Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: the FBI, you'll often hear it called serial murdering or something.

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Speaker 1: There were there were some closely related types of homicide

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Speaker 1: that we looked at in the video, right, that you

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Speaker 1: have to distinguish between. Yeah, well, right, you've got mass

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Speaker 1: murders and those are basically they're the reason why they're

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Speaker 1: different from serial killers is because that's when you have

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Speaker 1: four or more victims, but it's in one specific time

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Speaker 1: and location. Right. So unfortunately, this is something we're familiar

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Speaker 1: with recently because we've had kind of a spat of them. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then there's also spree killers, which are a little different. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And the FBI refers to these as killers that tend

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Speaker 1: to keep killing over a period of days or weeks.

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Speaker 1: But they're in different locations, right, Uh. And they don't

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Speaker 1: have the cooling off period, so unlike a serial killer

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Speaker 1: who would maybe you know, uh, take like a month

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Speaker 1: between killing or or maybe longer. These there isn't that

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Speaker 1: kind of pattern, right. These people may continue killing until

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Speaker 1: they are stopped literally. Uh. There's another thing here that

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Speaker 1: we could add while we're defining what makes a serial killer,

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Speaker 1: and then is there's often some sort of psychological aspect

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Speaker 1: to the crime, some sort of exploration of an emotional trauma,

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Speaker 1: for instance. Uh, some sort of ritualized thing that is

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Speaker 1: based on and as based on a pre existing mental condition. Right,

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Speaker 1: So people are reliving certain moments, or people are responding

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Speaker 1: to a pathological problem with a parent and childhood or

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Speaker 1: something like that. But that's this, This is what we

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Speaker 1: have when we're when we're loosely defining these things. And

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Speaker 1: the phrase serial killer comes to us first from a

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Speaker 1: book called The Complete Detective, published in nineteen fifty. But

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Speaker 1: going back to this conversation about serial killers and the

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Speaker 1: the very American nature of it, which I agree, many

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Speaker 1: many cultures across the world associate serial killers with the

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Speaker 1: US and the other the only other big one being

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Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper, But the the the idea, the actual

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Speaker 1: idea of a serial murderer comes was coined in ninety

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Speaker 1: one in Germany to a in reference to a killer

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Speaker 1: named Pe You're cryptin, you know, I think the media

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Speaker 1: in the US has certainly distorted maybe our view of

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Speaker 1: what what a serial killer looks like, what they sound like,

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Speaker 1: I agree, you know, how they function, what their problems

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Speaker 1: are psychologically. And one of the big things that I

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Speaker 1: know is the FBI kept reiterating is that serial killers

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Speaker 1: don't all look the same way. They do not all

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Speaker 1: follow a pattern. There are so many things that you

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Speaker 1: have to look at when you're trying to profile somebody

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Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, exactly. I think that that is the

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Speaker 1: thing that's actually scary about thinking about uncaught serial killers,

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Speaker 1: right is the idea that in our entertainment that we

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Speaker 1: almost fetishize this serial killer entertainment culture, right, Uh, think

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Speaker 1: about like shows like Hannibal. Right, so the whole show

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Speaker 1: is about one profiler who's profiling all these different serial

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Speaker 1: killers that just happened to all happen around Baltimore, Maryland. Right.

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Speaker 1: I love that show, but uh, it does you know,

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, and a lot of police procedurals do

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Speaker 1: sort of not glorified but um create a somewhat fantasy

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Speaker 1: version of what this is like and there and there's

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Speaker 1: always an assumption that there's like one specific incident like

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Speaker 1: that grandma wasn't nice to them when they were in

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Speaker 1: ten or uh, you know what, what's Hannibal Lecter's incident

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Speaker 1: something with his sister? Right, Well, this this okay spoiler

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Speaker 1: alert officially, I don't know if we want to do

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Speaker 1: a sound cue for that or something. But he was

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Speaker 1: forced to participate in Next Accountableism Child and that it

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Speaker 1: that'll do it. Right. I think that's an excellent point

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Speaker 1: because it's one of the myths, and there is this

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Speaker 1: mythology about serial killers. But we have to be clear.

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Speaker 1: A serial murderer doesn't necessarily have to have some physiological

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Speaker 1: injury or a neurological injury to their brain like oddist tool, right. Um,

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Speaker 1: it can instead be a lack of empathy could be

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Speaker 1: part of the ingredients. There There have been, of course.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's that famous triumvirate that was proposed earlier

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Speaker 1: that suggested a relationship between We're suggested there were three

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Speaker 1: red flags to see someone come growing up to become

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Speaker 1: think pyromaniac, a sexual deviants, and possibly a serial killer,

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Speaker 1: which were bed wedding, to late age, torturing animals. Almost

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Speaker 1: the third one, the torturing animals, is the one I

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Speaker 1: always remember. I don't know, yeah, the oh fire was

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Speaker 1: our striving a Honda Odyssey Christian that I'm not allowed

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Speaker 1: to comment on that actually, But but here's our point.

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Speaker 1: We have a hard time as a society, at least

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Speaker 1: in the States, profiling what a serial killer is because

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Speaker 1: they can be very different. We're not looking at we're

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Speaker 1: not looking at the root of a perpetrator criminal. We're

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Speaker 1: looking at the work that they have done, and we're

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Speaker 1: looking at the crimes they have committed. And that makes

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Speaker 1: it very, very difficult to to find the source of it,

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Speaker 1: which is why one of the biggest myths about serial

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Speaker 1: killers that they get caught all the time, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think that too, like that's part of the

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Speaker 1: myth of the entertainment spreads as well as and no

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Speaker 1: offense to any criminal profilers out there, But I don't

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Speaker 1: think that it works like it does on TV, right, Like, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they want to get caught kind of, so they play

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Speaker 1: a little game and they all have like like a

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Speaker 1: little theme about how they do it, you know, like

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Speaker 1: as we're about to find out that's the the m

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Speaker 1: O isn't always the same first of all, Um, but

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Speaker 1: but but also just that like it's not so easy

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Speaker 1: to nail down exactly what kind of person this is

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Speaker 1: so that you can narrow down the field of potential suspects. Right.

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Speaker 1: So us just as a warning for everyone who is

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Speaker 1: listening to the podcast, we are entering the part of

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Speaker 1: the show where we're going to talk about some grizzly details,

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Speaker 1: and we were doing this, Um, we're doing this because

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Speaker 1: this is true crime, which is something that interests all

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Speaker 1: of us associated with this. Uh, this is also an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to shed some light on some things that are misportrayed.

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Speaker 1: And also these are real monsters. These are the closest

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Speaker 1: thing to genuine monsters, you know, and and they're even

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Speaker 1: there's a great folkloric supposition or theory that reports of

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Speaker 1: werewolves and stuff. We're really these older cultures, right, trying

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Speaker 1: to understand serial killers. But why right, So we have

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Speaker 1: several examples of serial killers who are currently not apprehended.

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Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and get started with number one.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to throw this to Christian because I

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Speaker 1: know you did a lot of research on this fellow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I am this person. Yeah. I mean that's another thing, right,

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Speaker 1: is that it's often assumed that serial killers are male.

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Speaker 1: Uh So this particular one is known as the New

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Speaker 1: Bedford Highway killer. And I chose uh to look deeper

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Speaker 1: into this one because I'm from the Boston area and

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Speaker 1: New Bedford's pretty close to Boston, Massachusetts. Uh And one

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Speaker 1: of my good friends grew up there actually, and I've

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Speaker 1: spent some time there. So I had a bit of

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Speaker 1: an idea of the locale in my head when I

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Speaker 1: was reading this. It wasn't so it wasn't just like

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Speaker 1: reading texts in research, you know what I mean. Like

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Speaker 1: I had an idea of what the culture was like there.

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Speaker 1: Um So in n uh, somewhere between nine and eleven women.

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Speaker 1: They don't know if all of them were victims of

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Speaker 1: this particular killer. We're murdered between April and September in

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Speaker 1: New Bedford. And if you're not familiar, New Bedford is

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Speaker 1: the town where Herman Melville set Moby dick Um. So

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Speaker 1: it's a seaside town in Massachusetts. Uh used to have

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Speaker 1: a strong uh fishing culture industry, and it fell on

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Speaker 1: hard times. UH. So all of these bodies were dumped

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Speaker 1: by the side of various highways leading outside of New Bedford,

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Speaker 1: Root one forty and Roots six uh and all of

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Speaker 1: these women were thought of as sex workers. UH. And

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Speaker 1: they all were thought of as having drug problems. Now,

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Speaker 1: I will say like in some of the research there

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Speaker 1: were parents of these victims who disputed that uh and

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Speaker 1: and and I was telling you guys off air that

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Speaker 1: my my buddy, who grew up in this town, said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not all that surprised. There's like a

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Speaker 1: particular type of person who like hangs out downtown and

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Speaker 1: it's they're just assumed to be involved in drugs or

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Speaker 1: the sex trade or something like that, and they're just

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Speaker 1: largely ignored by the rest of the community. So so

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Speaker 1: he wasn't all that surprised that they were sort of

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Speaker 1: labeled that way. Uh, and it's easy I think for uh,

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Speaker 1: that that idea to sort of fall through the cracks

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Speaker 1: to right and say like just slap that on and say, well,

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Speaker 1: of course that's why they got killed, right, and then

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Speaker 1: they would And then it's also from the killer's perspective,

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Speaker 1: less likely to draw attention. Yeah. Absolutely. Um So the

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Speaker 1: thing that was really interesting about the actual finding of

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Speaker 1: the bodies is that, I mean, this New Bettor is

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Speaker 1: a fairly populated area. Most of these bodies were badly

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Speaker 1: decayed and already exposed to animals and the elements by

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Speaker 1: the time they were found. And we're talking about on

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Speaker 1: the side of the highway and not like in the forest,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. So the problem here was that there

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Speaker 1: was a lack of physical evidence for the police to

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Speaker 1: really work with. Uh. They just had these bodies and

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Speaker 1: they didn't really have you know, I mean they've they've

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Speaker 1: been exposed for for quite some time, so there there

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Speaker 1: wasn't a lot to work with there. So what went

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Speaker 1: on was in nineteen nine, Sorry, like I said, New

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Speaker 1: Bedford was on hard times. Uh. In Massachusetts is generally

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Speaker 1: acknowledged as kind, um, you know, being a little bit

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Speaker 1: shady it's a place where you can get uh, coke

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Speaker 1: and heroin. Uh and it was regarded, you know, as

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Speaker 1: having a bit of a heroin problem. There's a local

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Speaker 1: clinic there at the time that estimated that it was

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Speaker 1: treating at least four hundred heroin addicts a day. So

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Speaker 1: that's second to Boston in the state. Um. Uh So

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Speaker 1: you know, again, like that helps paint a picture, but

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Speaker 1: it also gives you an idea of sort of like

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Speaker 1: why the police I think gravitated to this idea of

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Speaker 1: just like okay, so their sex workers and their drug addicts,

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Speaker 1: so that's how they're getting napped, right. Um. The other

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Speaker 1: problem here is that many of the original investigators that

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Speaker 1: were involved either have retired or moved away, or they've

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Speaker 1: like moved up the ranks in the Massachusetts Police Force

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Speaker 1: and they're in command positions now that can't be abandoned

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Speaker 1: so that they can follow up on leads on this case,

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Speaker 1: so like their chief now, and they because of that,

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Speaker 1: they can't go back to decades old cases. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: and honestly, like when I was looking into sort of

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Speaker 1: the broader range of uncaught serial layers, I think that

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Speaker 1: that's a fairly common problem with finding these guys decades later,

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Speaker 1: you know, is that uh, like the other one I'll

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Speaker 1: talk about in this episode had a sort of similar

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Speaker 1: thing where you know, people have retired, moved away, or

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Speaker 1: they just you know, had moved on to bigger positions

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Speaker 1: and and unfortunately these cases they're not forgotten, They're still there,

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Speaker 1: but they're not being worked. I guess it's like you know,

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Speaker 1: from from how entertainment is terming it, it would be

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Speaker 1: a cold case. Right, So this is just me thinking

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Speaker 1: inside the podcast room, and I know this might be horrible,

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Speaker 1: but that that fact also kind of makes me a

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Speaker 1: bit suspicious of the law enforcement. And I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: and you know, as a blanket way a law enforcement

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Speaker 1: in those areas, But I don't know if in the

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Speaker 1: wildest of theories, if someone was involved in the law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: then you know, if they have moved up and they

404
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Speaker 1: are no longer involved in such things, or perhaps I

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Speaker 1: don't are able to cover up some actions, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it does make sense in these allegations of potential cover ups, right,

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Speaker 1: It's something it's a trope we see often in different films. Yeah, again,

408
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Speaker 1: is it just media muddying my perception? Not not necessarily,

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Speaker 1: because there are cases such as the Atlanta child murders

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Speaker 1: from seventy one, which is, as listeners know, the town

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Speaker 1: where we record this show. There was an Atlanta native

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Speaker 1: named Wayne Williams who was who was convicted for murders.

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Speaker 1: The child murders were grizzly and included almost thirty kids,

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Speaker 1: you know, And at this point, um, there are many

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Speaker 1: people who believe that Wayne Williams was set up or

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Speaker 1: as a murderer who had something attributed. And another way

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Speaker 1: this corruption could happen would be if you consider the

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Speaker 1: story of Henry Lee Lucas, who has suspected and I

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Speaker 1: hope you care air quotations here guys suspected of hundreds

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Speaker 1: of murders. But there's also a question whether law enforcement was,

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Speaker 1: you know, goading him into confessing things or incentivizing him

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Speaker 1: to get that off the books. So this is an aside. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but let me let me formulate something here on stuff

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Speaker 1: to blow your mind. We did an episode about the

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Speaker 1: psychology of necrophilia, and uh. It was an intense episode,

426
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: but it was also really interesting to dive into the

427
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: research and surprisingly there's a ton of research out there. Uh,

428
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 1: And UH, you know, if you want to learn more,

429
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: we you know, go listen to that episode of Robert

430
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: and I talking about people having sex with the bodies.

431
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: But uh, there is in necrophilia under it's understood that

432
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: as a mental disorder. It's something that develops when people

433
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to take part in it due to

434
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: their career. So there's like a good chunk of necrophilia

435
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: acts that are associated with it, and only perform those

436
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: acts because you know, they work in a hospital or

437
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: um or perhaps they work in a morgue or something

438
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: like that, they come into contact with dead bodies and

439
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 1: they have the opportunity. So alright, establishing that, moving back

440
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: to where we are on Uncaught serial killers, you know,

441
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: the police are also in a situation in which they

442
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: are often working with dead bodies. That's you know, that's

443
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 1: that's interesting because I'm not saying police all police are necrophilias.

444
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they're serial killers. I'm just saying that

445
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: if there was the potential for a mental disorder, the

446
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: career puts them in a situation where they have the

447
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: opportunity to indulge in such fantasies. But that's an opportunity,

448
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: you know it It It reminds me of another statistic I

449
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: read where apparently and this was only conducted with men,

450
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: I think apparently male uh shoe store employees have a

451
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: higher likelihood of a foot fetish, which maybe that also

452
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: stars to opportunism. But but of course, you know, we

453
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,479
Speaker 1: have a we have a lot of law enforcement that

454
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: listens to this show. It has written into us before

455
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,719
Speaker 1: about um corruption in a police course or in in

456
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: a military organization. I think at a certain point, you know,

457
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: there's a calculation that comes with power and with um

458
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,479
Speaker 1: opportunity and people who haven't seen the wire. I know

459
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: everyone gets tired of people trying to proselytize for the wire.

460
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: But it does, it does provide a very good look

461
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: at the internal political machinations. It's not you know, it's

462
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: not necessarily when we say corruption or cover up, we're

463
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 1: not necessarily saying you know, um, we're not saying that

464
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: Scott Benjamin, Lieutenant Scott Benjamin is a police officer just

465
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: so he can continue poisoning the elderly and ambulances. Uh.

466
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: But we're saying that that's a plot of a bad

467
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: like procedural TV show. But what is much more right.

468
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: What's much more possible is that someone wants their record

469
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: to look good to affect their chances of promotion. Well yeah,

470
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: and so get to get back to this case. Actually,

471
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: there there's a really good example of of of that

472
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: very kind of common every day uh political slash law

473
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: enforcement corruption that happened in this case that led to

474
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 1: it being unsolved. So, um, this the victims again, you know,

475
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: let me just remind you there were nine to eleven women. Uh,

476
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,479
Speaker 1: they were all strangled. That was the only kind of

477
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: common thing in the m O. But none of the

478
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: research that I could find listed any methods of murder

479
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: beyond that, like whether they were strangled with a rope

480
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: or with hands or there was just not a lot listed,

481
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: which made me think maybe the police never released the details.

482
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: They're holding onto that information. And again, remember this happened

483
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: in a pretty short span of time, so they might

484
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: not have wanted to release the information Asian. Well, yeah,

485
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: so anyone calling in wouldn't they would have to have

486
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: or if anyone had details beyond some of the very

487
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: very general perhaps that's someone you could look at exactly. Yeah,

488
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: and so so okay, so they're strangled, they were always

489
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: found nude abandoned on the side of the highway. Uh

490
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: and two of the victim's bodies were never found. So

491
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: that's why there's that nine to eleven things. They don't

492
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: know what happened to these two particular women, but there's

493
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: some really fascinating leads in this case. Um, again, it's unsolved,

494
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: but this is what we know. There's a guy named

495
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: Tony de Grazia in the area who had a history

496
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: of sexual assault with prostitutes, specifically that you know, kind

497
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: of area culture of prostitution and drug use that was

498
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: in in New Bedford at the time. However, there was

499
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: no evidence to link him to this case, and in fact,

500
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,719
Speaker 1: he committed suicide in h if I remember correctly from

501
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: the research. One of his relatives speculated that the suicide

502
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: was probably brought on by all the attention that was

503
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: focused on him from this case. So there, you know,

504
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: there's no evidence to link him to this other than

505
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: that he just happened to be a guy who you know,

506
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: hung around, I guess with that crowd, but also was

507
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: a known sort of violent offender. UM. The other possible theory,

508
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: and this is something that I ran by my friend

509
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,479
Speaker 1: who lived in New Bedford at the time. Is that

510
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: the killer was also a killer that was known as

511
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: the Lisbon Ripper that was operating in Portugal in the

512
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. Uh. And the reason for this is that

513
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: New Bedford has a very large Portuguese community. So the

514
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: idea was that this guy could potentially have been flying

515
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: back and forth between the continents and performing various murders

516
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: and then you know, uh, I guess the cooling down

517
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: period would be him going to a you know, a

518
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: different location I see. And that that's one speculation as

519
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: to why they were in every able to get him.

520
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,479
Speaker 1: This is the deep one, and this is the one

521
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: that has a little bit of corruption connected to it.

522
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: The other guy was a lawyer in the area named

523
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: Kenneth Ponte, and he was actually indicted for the murder

524
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: of one of the women that was involved, you know,

525
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: one of one of the victims. Uh, but his case

526
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: ended up being dropped due to a lack of evidence.

527
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: Again uh. And both the investigators in the case and

528
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: the surviving family members of the victims say that they

529
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: don't think it was him. However, here's how things played

530
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: out with this guy over the course of a couple

531
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: of years, um, Ponte, the reason why he was a

532
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: suspect was that he also knew some of the victims

533
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: and he actually served as one of their attorneys. However,

534
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: he had uh personal feud going on with the local

535
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: district attorney, a guy named Ron Pena. Uh the way

536
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: that I saw in in several reports that I read

537
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: for this episode, Uh, apparently it stemmed from the fact

538
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: that their mothers were neighbors and they didn't like each other,

539
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: and therefore there's just this kind of family few that

540
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: had gone back for a while. So Ron Peena is

541
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: the district attorney. He gets a special grand jury to

542
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: indict Ponti. So that's where the indictment came down from.

543
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: When Pena loses his election as a special prosecutor, they

544
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: have to drop the charges because there's no evidence. Wow

545
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: again Ponte, you know, there's no evidence, there's nothing. They

546
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: can't actually connect him to the case. Um. And there

547
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: were also like a lot of reports about jurisdictional issues

548
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: between the state police, local police, and the FEDS. So

549
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: again that's another thing that we see in entertainment crime

550
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: stories all the time. Right. But as far as the

551
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: research for this case, that was an actual thing that

552
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: held up them being able to really nail down evidence

553
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: in this case. And at this point the murders remain unsolved.

554
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: They do. In fact, Ponte while having drug problems and

555
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: being disbarred and was even later caught shoplifting. Uh, you know,

556
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: they were never able to find anything. In two thousand seven,

557
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: the police went back to his old house and dug

558
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: up the front of the house because they thought there

559
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: might be something there. They didn't find anything, and he

560
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: died in two thousand and ten. So that's all the

561
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: new Bedford Police, Massachusetts State Police, and the FBI had

562
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: for this case, you know, at least as far as

563
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: we know publicly. Obviously, you know, as we were saying earlier,

564
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: they must have had other information that they just didn't release.

565
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: But uh, this person remains uncought. Whoever committed these crimes.

566
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: You know what's fascinating about that is it shows another

567
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: it shows another possibility that I first read into with

568
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: the Zodiac killings, I was not involved. Just to go

569
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: on record there, I'm not old enough. We believe you,

570
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: thanks math uh So the uh, the one of the

571
00:33:54,000 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: suppositions was that the murders stopped because the one of

572
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: the suspects was incarcerated on a different charge and died

573
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: in prison or died somewhere else as a result. So

574
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: it is it is completely possible, you know that, Um, well,

575
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: obviously not Ponte, probably not. Yeah, I mean there was

576
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: like a good twenty years in between the end of

577
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,439
Speaker 1: these murders and him passing away where nobody was killed

578
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: in the area. That doesn't mean that, you know, maybe

579
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: there was potential evidence that could have connected him to

580
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: the case, but they may never found it. And let's

581
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: look at another another one that is a little bit

582
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: different because this person was actually apprehended and did go

583
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 1: to jail. But wait, that's not the end of the story, ladies, gentlemen.

584
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Pedro Alonso Lopez, also known

585
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: as the Monster of the Andes. He is suspected of

586
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: killing more than three hundred and fifty girls, primarily in Ecuador,

587
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: Umbia and Peru. Originally, authorities didn't believe his story. Three

588
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: fifty dead children is a lot. Well, yeah, because he

589
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: was in jail for something else, right, and then he

590
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: was talking to an officer who was like dressed up

591
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: as an inmate and basically boasting about all of these

592
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: girls that he had killed, and he was naming off

593
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: like hundred in Peru, a hundred over here in Columbia,

594
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: hundred in Ecuador. And they, you know, if you hear

595
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: a grandiose story like that, that is awful. I don't

596
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: think you believe him on the first account. And they

597
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: didn't either until he led police to a mass grave

598
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: of fifty three victims in Ecuador, all girls between nine

599
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 1: to twelve years old. And here's this strange thing Alonso

600
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: Lopez though, was when he was prison it wasn't his

601
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: first brush with a judicial system. When indigenous villagers in

602
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: Peru caught him trying to abduct Chill Dre and they

603
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 1: buried him up to his neck. Uh, and we're pouring

604
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: honey on him and preparing to have him die by

605
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: having ants consume him until western white missionaries um prevented

606
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: this horrible pagan practice and said that she would take

607
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: him to the cops. She drove him to the border

608
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: and let him go. That was his first that was

609
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: his first brush with the consequences of these deranged actions.

610
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: So here's his time frame. He was first active sixty

611
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: nine through nineteen eighty or so. And while he was

612
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: in prison. Uh it was deemed too costly and complicated

613
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: to have him on trial in both Columbia and Peru,

614
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: so Peruvian authorities in August of support him to Columbia,

615
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: where he was found insane and held in a mental

616
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: ward until nine when he was released to the public.

617
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: The last that we have heard of Pedro Donso Lopez

618
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 1: is in two thousand to an interpool released an advisory

619
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: for his arrest in on suspicion of another another homicide,

620
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: and he has again primarily killed female children, also male

621
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: um As of two thousand and fifteen, the year we

622
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: recorded this, Lopez would be sixty seven years old if

623
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: he remains alive. And again it sounds this guy is

624
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: a little bit unique because you can read purported a

625
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: purported interview with him, which I wasn't able to verify

626
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: to the my ideal standards, but it seems pretty it

627
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: seems pretty legitimate, and just you know, I'm trying to

628
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 1: I'm trying to verify that stuff as well right now,

629
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: and I agree I can't verify it, but the way

630
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: the way some of their the things are written, and

631
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: then knowing what we already know about him, I would

632
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: agree with you right, probably in the interviewer is real. Absolutely.

633
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: But so here's the thing that this leaves us with.

634
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: He's sixty seven years old. He wouldn't He most likely

635
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 1: is not going to be in the best of shape.

636
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: Not everyone is Sean Connery, right, so he we this

637
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: would make us think that maybe he's too frail, right,

638
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: we hope, we hope. Um, I would hope that he

639
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: is dead. But part of the reason I hope that

640
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 1: is remembering that his victims are children, and that many

641
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: that were confirmed, and then all the other ones, the

642
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: hundreds that are suspected, right, often poor, often street kids,

643
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: often um in rural areas, not part of mainstream society.

644
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: That so again it's like a population that's sort of

645
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: at the limits and uh ignored. Right, that's where we

646
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: see this succeeding. So let's let's look at another case,

647
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: because that's that's the other thing. Folks, if you haven't

648
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: seen the video yet, there are numerous cases of unconst

649
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: real killers. We just picked a few. Yeah, yeah, we're

650
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 1: only talking about like four or five today, and I

651
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: think when we were looking at the general research, there

652
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: were at least just in a cursorysearch, like uncased serial

653
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: killers that are pretty widely known, and the number of

654
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: missing persons that perhaps aren't even attached to any known killer.

655
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: Are there. There are a crazy amount of evil that

656
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: go missing every year. Well, for the this next one,

657
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: I again, I chose one from you know, the nick

658
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: of the Woods that I grew up in, which is uh,

659
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, I'm from Massachusetts. I went to school in

660
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: New Hampshire. Uh. This is the Connecticut River Valley serial killer.

661
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: Connecticut River Valley is uh this border area between western

662
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: New Hampshire and Vermont. Uh. And this killer basically stopped

663
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: that area in the nineteen eighties and six women were killed, uh, stabbed,

664
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: lee and their bodies were dumped in the woods near

665
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: an area called the Sugar River. The time frame for

666
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: this is much wider than in the previous case that

667
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: I talked about, So that was one summer. This took

668
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: place over ten years, from nineteen seventy eight to nine

669
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: eighty eight. The first bodies actually turned up in eighty five,

670
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: but they believed that he started in seventy eight based

671
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 1: on you know, like decom decomposition uh in that they've

672
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: found at least five of the women by seven So UH,

673
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: the m O of this particular killer was that he

674
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: would find isolated women. Again I'm using he as sort

675
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: of just a general gender term, not knowing who it is. Uh,

676
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: but he would find these isolated women, usually hitch hood

677
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: hiking or alone at night. Three of the victims were nurses,

678
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: so they were traveling at a late night schedules because

679
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: of their shifts. Uh. He would stab them in the

680
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: throat and then repeatedly stabbed them across their bodies and

681
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: then took the bodies and dumped them into this particular

682
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: area in the woods. Sometimes Uh he'd used like a

683
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: black tarp sort of like kind of try to hide

684
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: the bodies a little bit. Okay, So there are several

685
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 1: victims leading up to August six, when a woman named

686
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: Jane Barowski, who was pregnant at the time, was at

687
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: a convenience store late at night in the area. UM.

688
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: The reason again I should have probably mentioned this earlier.

689
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: One of the reasons why I'm referring to him as

690
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: a hymn is because of this particular incident, she identified

691
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: her attacker as male. Uh. He attacked her, stabbed her

692
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: twenty three to twenty seven times uh, and she basically

693
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: did everything she could just you know, kind of protect

694
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: her baby, so um, to make sure that that area

695
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: of her body wasn't wasn't hit. Um. By playing dead,

696
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: she was able to survive and basically, um, crawl and

697
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: then like I think, walk to the nearest location where

698
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 1: I think she knew somebody local and get help. And

699
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: I think she might have even driven with that many wounds. Um.

700
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: So there's a couple of things here that are they're interesting, right,

701
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: So she survives, so we know that it's a it's

702
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: a male killer. We know a little bit about how

703
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: he attacked her, but um, he didn't take her body

704
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: like the others, which is curious to me because you know,

705
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, the m O was he stabbed

706
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: them and he would take them, bring them to the woods,

707
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: dumped them. But he left her there. So if she

708
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: was playing dead, was he going to come back later

709
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: or something, or maybe it was because of the pregnancy.

710
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: Nobody knows, well And how how could you ever prove

711
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: that this is the same guy? Right, exactly right? And

712
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 1: in fact, there are four other cases that may be linked,

713
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: but there's no proof connecting them. Right. So again there's

714
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: some fascinating leads in this case, but but nothing nailed down.

715
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: No one has ever been apprehended for this. The first

716
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: lead is a guy named Michael Nikolau and he was

717
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: a Vietnam veteran who actually in two thousand five killed

718
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: his wife and his stepdaughter and then himself in West Tampa, Florida. UM.

719
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: He had previously been linked to the case by a

720
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: private investigator who had been looking for his ex wife,

721
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 1: a woman named Michelle Ashley. She basically in n she

722
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: disappeared from the Holyoke, Massachusetts area, which is kind of

723
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: close to that relatively speaking, close to that Connecticut River

724
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 1: Valley arena. Uh. And so when this private investigator contacted him,

725
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: he said, oh, I don't know where she is, but

726
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: she ran off with a drug dealer and left me

727
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 1: to raise our two kids alone. So, uh, his ex

728
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: wife's missing, right. Um. She looks into him, the private investigator,

729
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: I mean, and she finds out that while he was

730
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: in the Vietnam War, people who were in his platoon

731
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 1: reported that he would go human hunting with a knife. Uh.

732
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 1: And he would go and basically killed civilians during the war. Uh.

733
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: And she believes that this is connected to this case

734
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: because there was a millis military style association with the

735
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: way that the victim's necks were cut, so with these

736
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: stabbutes and knives, right, so that this was like again

737
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: like so we were talking earlier about how when you're

738
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: in a career that sort of puts you in a

739
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: position in which you're coming into contact with dead bodies

740
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: are in this case killing people. Uh that you know,

741
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: it provides the opportunity to sort of bring about this disorder,

742
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: if that's what you want to call this kind this

743
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: type of serial killing. Uh. So, so it's possible, you know,

744
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: based on this private investigator's theory that if Nikolau was

745
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 1: the one who did it, that he kind of got

746
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: into this during Vietnam and then brought it back with

747
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 1: him to the States afterwards. The thing that is interesting

748
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: to me is that, uh, if his m O was stabbing,

749
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: remember that when he you know, had his meltdown in

750
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: two thousand five and killed his family and himself, he

751
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: did it by shooting them. So uh, you know who knows, uh,

752
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: but it's curious, uh, you know, discrepancy there. Uh. However,

753
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: Jane Borowski, that woman I was talking about earlier, the

754
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: one who was pregnant and survived. She identified him as

755
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: the man who attacked her. This is much later, but

756
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: she looked at you know, photos of him and after

757
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: he was was gone and said, yeah, that's the guy.

758
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: So she identified it as Nicolaon. That's pretty strong. But wait,

759
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: it gets weirder. No, Uh, here's where it gets crazy.

760
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: Go for it all right. Guy named Gary Westover is

761
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: from the area and uh. He had been paralyzed from

762
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: a diving accident and he at the time thought he

763
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: was dying. So he called upon his uncle, who was

764
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: a former sheriff's deputy in Grafton County, New Hampshire, again

765
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: part of this area. Yeah, on his deathbed. Uh, And

766
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: he tells his uncle, he says, Okay, a couple of

767
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: years previous to this, three of my friends picked me

768
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 1: up and they wanted to go partying in a van.

769
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: And I kind of joked about this with you guys,

770
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: because you know, being living in New Hampshire for a

771
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: long period of time, that's kind of a thing you do,

772
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,919
Speaker 1: like like you just get into somebody's car or van

773
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: and you know, get some get some drinks, some booth,

774
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 1: some of the things. Matty's and Fatty's was a common

775
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: term when I was going to high school up there.

776
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: The party in a van is the thing people do.

777
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: I mean, go somewhere in It's not unusual. Yeah, exactly,

778
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: Like I don't want listeners to think like, oh that's weird.

779
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: Like just driving around in a van with it was

780
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 1: kind of yeah. Let me tell you I've I've done it,

781
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: so but I haven't done this next part. Uh. So,

782
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: so Gary west Over says, Okay, my friends picked me up,

783
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 1: we get in this van. Uh. And then they abduct

784
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 1: a woman and they killed her and dumped her body

785
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: off on a back road. And he said, you know,

786
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: he didn't participate, but that he was forced to be there. Uh.

787
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: And again remember reason a wheelchair. So uh. He basically said, look,

788
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: I feel really bad about this. I want to tell

789
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: the truth and want you to know about this to

790
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: his uncle. But he had previously been scared to say

791
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: anything because they said, well, look, you know we can

792
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: get you any time. So if you say anything, we

793
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: you know you're an easy target. And and uh. The

794
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: other thing that's kind of interesting about this is that

795
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: private investigator who had looked into Nickel Out previously also

796
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: speculated that it's possible that Gary Westover was used as

797
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: bait for one of these killings. And then because it

798
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: was particularly snowy there in the middle of a snowstorm

799
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: when this VAM party was going on, they placed him

800
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: in his wheelchair. This is her speculation, mind you, there's

801
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: no evidence for this, but they placed him in his

802
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 1: wheelchair on the side of the road so that when

803
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: one of the women drove by, she pulled over to

804
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: help him to find out what was wrong, and that's

805
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: when they killed her. Good lord. Yeah, So, uh. The

806
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: private investigator comes into this again though, because she says, well,

807
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: it's possible that that Michael Nikolau guy was one of

808
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: these three friends, uh, and that it's possible that he

809
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: and Gary west Over knew each other because they're both

810
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 1: veterans and they might have met through the local Veterans

811
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 1: Affair hospital. Uh. And so if that's true, and Gary

812
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: Westover's story is true, and even if Nicolau was the killer,

813
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: then that means that there's two other guys out there

814
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: that were accomplices or involved in these murders somehow, and reportedly,

815
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 1: you know, police have access to the names. Of course,

816
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: his uncle took this information for it. It became part

817
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: of the case. But sure you know, no arrests have

818
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: been made as of our recording today. Right. Wow, So

819
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: before we get to some statistics, we have one more

820
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: case and we'll we'll walk through this one kind of quickly. Here.

821
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: This is the Long Island serial killer and unidentified assailant

822
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: believed to have killed anywhere from ten to seventeen or

823
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 1: more people over the course of twenty plus years around

824
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: the Ocean Parkway area. Time frame here would be at

825
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: least nine six to two thousand, nine two thousand thirteen.

826
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: So what kind of victims are we talking about here?

827
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 1: It's kind of similar to a few of the other

828
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: cases that we've already looked at, where these are primarily

829
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 1: sex workers or at least believed to be sex workers,

830
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: who were killed at some location, then put into in

831
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: this case, a burlap sack, and then dumped along the parkway.

832
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: And that's particularly at Gilgo Beach in this area. So

833
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: that is so similar to the new Bedford Highway guy.

834
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,720
Speaker 1: And it's not that it's not at all on Long Island,

835
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: is not. I mean, like maybe five hours at the most,

836
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm not saying that's the same guy.

837
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: But there's also sort of like the idea that this

838
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: this motive, this is this uh, the m O could

839
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: have been spread through the media, you know, I mean

840
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: this when they started. So this happened like just about

841
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, ten years after and it continued until

842
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: almost today. I mean it's close, right, we don't know

843
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: when it ended too well. Yeah, that so the ones

844
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: that we know of go that far. Yeah, And there

845
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: were some anomalous things there as well. There was a

846
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: man of the body of a man and a toddler discovered.

847
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 1: So they went into profiling, which, as we know, can

848
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: be a dangerous game at times. And don't get me wrong,

849
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: profilers in real life are doing fantastic and vital work. Um.

850
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: But I think it's also we we talk about this

851
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: off air, folks. Every so often something comes out about

852
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics, and you can hear everybody roll roll their eyes.

853
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: You can literally hear eyes rolling in their sockets at

854
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: our office because quantum mechanics, it's it's one of the

855
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: most misunderstood things I think a popular culture and profilers

856
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: would be up in the top ten what they actually

857
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 1: do and how they do it. But here's a lot

858
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 1: of I think forensic work. Oh yeah, yeah, that's true. Oh,

859
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 1: no spoilers, but it's true. Uh. So we have this,

860
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 1: we have this look from a profile with all those caveats. Uh.

861
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: The authorities surmised that this killer is a male and

862
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: is financially comfortable, obviously owns an auto. It's transport victims,

863
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 1: and would have a job where he has access to

864
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: burlap sacks, maybe a center and nursery. I think it's

865
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: also possible that he could just be buying them. The

866
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 1: big thing is they believe he's familiar with police methods,

867
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 1: possibly working in law enforcement or having friends maybe family

868
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 1: members who do. And they're also here's another thing. They're

869
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: also certain that, well fairly certain that he buried some

870
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: of these bodies, restored them somewhere before he dumped them,

871
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: meaning that it's possible. Adding onto your earlier statement about

872
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: New Bedford, it's possible that he is visiting the area seasonally.

873
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 1: So it gives us some questions, right, could it be

874
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: abducting his victims. We'll see a note here that says

875
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,919
Speaker 1: that these all these victims are sorry. The first four

876
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: victims disappeared between Memorial Day and Labor Day. Yes, that's

877
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: almost exactly the same as the New Bedford situation. Oh wow,

878
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: it was very it was it was a summer spree.

879
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: Well okay, I'm using the term spree summer serial killer.

880
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: So you know, I just want to say another thing

881
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: that was interesting. A couple of the a couple of

882
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 1: the victims were prostitutes who are advertising on Craigslist, who

883
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: were advertising their services. So again that's someone who was

884
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: perhaps not immediately in the area, that could find someone

885
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: who was in that location and meet up with them

886
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 1: through the Craigslist meet up. I don't know, this is

887
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 1: all that. I mean, it's disturbing either way. Like you know,

888
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: it's fun to play armchair detective and and try to

889
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 1: find some kind of connections, but it's also just disturbing

890
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: in the fact that they're so similar and didn't happen

891
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 1: all that far away from one another and both are

892
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: still unsolved. Yeah, and and didn't happen that far away

893
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: from each other really in space or time, so them

894
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: and I think that's a very good catch about the

895
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: timing of the murders. So we do have some leads.

896
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of speculation in the media about

897
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: this identity of this killer. Um the street name for

898
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: this killer would be unsub not what you do and

899
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: you don't like a YouTube channel, but as a as

900
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:14,399
Speaker 1: a portmanteau for unknown subject. And they believe again he's

901
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: most likely a male, specifically a white male. I don't

902
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 1: know how they knew that part in his twenties the forties,

903
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: clearly familiar with the south shore of Long Island. But um,

904
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: there's an interesting case by or an interesting article rather

905
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: by a fellow named Dr Scott Bond. Writing for Psychology Today,

906
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: Bond said he believes the killer may have relocated or

907
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: become dormant. Uh. And we'll talk about dormancy in a second,

908
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: but he does believe the killer resided in New York

909
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: City at one point because there was a series of

910
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: phone calls that the killer made he made after he

911
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: abducted and murdered um a woman named Melissa bar Flamy. Uh.

912
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: He made seven phone calls using her phone over a

913
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: six week period in oh nine to the sister to

914
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: Melissa's sister, and these were taunting her, saying horrible things

915
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 1: about the victim, and the phone calls could be traced

916
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: roughly the Manhattan area. It's so close. Yeah, yeah, that's

917
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: one of those things that if you're in the law

918
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: enforcement looking to find this guy, like, oh my gosh,

919
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: we almost got him. And again, sorry, this sounds like

920
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: something like that you would see on like a TV

921
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: show like The following or something like that, Right, but

922
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: this is this is real. Like that this guy killed

923
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,879
Speaker 1: a woman's sister and then called her repeatedly from her

924
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: own phone. It's haunting. So yeah, and these are just

925
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:52,760
Speaker 1: four examples of the Long Island serial killer is currently

926
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: one of the I guess most recent right, but that

927
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that any of these perpetrators fit the same profile.

928
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:08,919
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that any of them are necessarily uh deceased.

929
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 1: So if you if you look at look at what

930
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: the FBI says about it, they will say that serial

931
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: killers are among us. There is no set profile. There's

932
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: an interesting thing that we've talked about off air, I believe,

933
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: which was the Highway Serial Killing Initiative. The FBI started

934
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: to map this out, and one thing we talked about

935
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 1: in Highway of Tears was that these sorts of murders

936
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: of again people in the fringes of society, right, prostitutes,

937
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: drug addicts, hitchhikers, these people are these people are prey.

938
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: And when when the FBI started mapping this, they found

939
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: within five cases that they could add to their database,

940
00:56:54,520 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: and they started to wonder if there were truckers that

941
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: we're using the opportunity again to the excellent point you

942
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:09,320
Speaker 1: made earlier to become serial murderers. And furthermore, if these

943
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: criminals were hunting in packs essentially, well, I mean that

944
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 1: goes back to the was it Gary west Over claim

945
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: about that for well, you know, he said that he

946
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: wasn't actively taking partner, but three guys were basically in

947
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 1: a driving around a van together in New Hampshire stalking women. Right,

948
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: And it's true that, which is contrary. I'd like to say,

949
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: it's very contrary to our popularized idea of serial killers. Yeah,

950
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: exactly right. And there's a there's a conservative estimate that

951
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: comes from fellow named John Douglas, a former chief of

952
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: the FBI's elite Serial crime unit and the author of

953
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: a book called mind Hunter. Uh. He says that at

954
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: his conservative estimate, there are between thirty five and fifty

955
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: active serial killers in the US at any given time,

956
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 1: and that because they have no profile, because they could

957
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: be the person you walk past on your way from

958
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: the gas pump to the cashier, because they could be

959
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: one of the six people with you in an elevator.

960
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: Because of this, it's horrifying. Well, it's it's it's horrifying.

961
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 1: It's a little alarmous too, because if we consider that

962
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: there are what around three thirty million people in the US,

963
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 1: and then maybe sixty those it's a very small percentage.

964
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 1: But he also said it was a conservative estimate, and

965
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: it makes me think this is entirely supposition, But it

966
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: makes me think if these stereotypes about serial killers are

967
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: impeding apprehending them, because I'm sure, even now, in living

968
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: in a surveillance state, I'm sure it would be quite

969
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: possible for someone to be, you know, a normal, average

970
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: person and every two years they take a two week

971
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: vacation somewhere they've never been because they like to see

972
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: the sites. Then a homeless person goes missing that over

973
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: that same stretch, and then they never go to you know,

974
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: Aruba or Vegas again. So this is a thing that

975
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: we often run into here at how stuff works on

976
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: all of the shows really is I find that the

977
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: various things that we research here, I end up with

978
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: this perspective of well, from our current vantage point here

979
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: in we can look back on such and such discovery

980
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 1: and go, oh, isn't it so silly that they didn't

981
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: understand this disease or this biological factor a hundred years

982
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: ago or whatever. I really feel like the more we

983
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: look into this, that serial killer psychology is something that

984
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: we don't quite understand that well right now, and that

985
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 1: in you know, in the future, people are going to

986
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 1: look back and say, Wow, they're really in the dark

987
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: about this, and then just making lots of TV shows

988
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: and movies kind of celebrating it. Yeah. I as if

989
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: they understood it. There's this glorification in some ways. That's

990
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: that Don't get me wrong, that's some of my favorite stuff.

991
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said earlier, like I'm a huge

992
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: fan of the Hannibal TV show. You guys know, I

993
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 1: love Hill TV show, Millennium with Lance Henrickson. Oh yeah, yeah,

994
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: that's another like serial killer profiler show. But I mean,

995
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: it's just bizarre when you think about it, how we

996
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: sort of approached this thing. I guess it's sort of

997
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: like our attempt as a culture to understand it and

998
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: feel safe with it by like finding it to a story. Well, yeah,

999
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: and it's also it gives you a tremendous feeling of

1000
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: relief when the bad guy in one of those gets

1001
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: caught yeah, right, or almost gets caught, or just you know,

1002
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 1: I was watching the following yeah, and just all the

1003
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 1: times we're like, all right, well that was nice resolution.

1004
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: Oh no, he's back, right exactly. Yeah. One thing that

1005
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: I want to bring out to the audience into every

1006
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: one else before before we get towards the end of

1007
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: the show is this. I almost said the following. Your

1008
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: core choice of words is is this. We know that

1009
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 1: we live in a world of predictive data, right, big data,

1010
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: and it is possible now to gain an increasingly sophisticated

1011
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: a bill of prognostication really of an individual's future actions

1012
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: based on what they're doing. Would it be possible to

1013
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, I'm proposing this idea of pre

1014
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: crime essentially, all right, are yeah, you're talking about minority report.

1015
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: I'm talking about something like minority that kind of already happening. Now.

1016
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 1: It's just what you're gonna buy in the next six

1017
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: to twelve months. As I've found out after having a baby,

1018
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: really what happens just you're depending on what goes on

1019
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 1: your credit cards depending on what I happen to purchase

1020
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: at let's say Kroger. If I end up us sing

1021
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: my Kroger Plus card, what happens. It tracks all of

1022
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 1: the information of what I'm buying, and then it sends

1023
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 1: that information to everybody else. Roger sells that information. So

1024
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 1: on my television right before I canceled cable, every ad.

1025
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 1: Every ad was diapers or you know, something like depression medication.

1026
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding you, it was. It was happening already.

1027
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 1: It was trying to understand what my life was like.

1028
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: Depression medication. Well, yeah, because that's why Hulu keeps telling

1029
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: me to go to the gym. I'm completely serious, though.

1030
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: It really is trying to target me as it does

1031
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: everyone else. And when I say it, I mean big

1032
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: data essentially. All Right, I gotta I gotta short story.

1033
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, guys, because this is perfect for

1034
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 1: your audience. And this is anecdotal and I'm not going

1035
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: to name this person. I have a friend who has

1036
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: a PhD in computer science and has done freelance work

1037
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: for the df D before, and one of the projects

1038
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: that he was a mine too was predictive data. Uh,

1039
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 1: basically trying to map out the probabilities of government employees

1040
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 1: breaking the rules. Are you allowed to tell us based

1041
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: on He's not allowed to tell you this, I'm allowed

1042
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 1: to tell uh. Basically the idea being that, you know,

1043
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 1: based on their actions within the network and how they're

1044
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: using you know, the computer system, are they going to

1045
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 1: go snowdon Yeah. Yeah, essentially I could see that. I mean,

1046
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 1: I could see that being a necessary thing from their perspective.

1047
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 1: Oh sure, I understand it completely. Um, but it's possible. Yeah,

1048
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: it is possible. And often, you know, I'm sure we'll

1049
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: get a lot of letters from people were saying that

1050
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 1: often the idea of security is falsely, you know, is

1051
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 1: marketed in an alarm is fashion to give people to

1052
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 1: sacrifice privacy. And I think that's I think it's absolutely true. Um.

1053
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 1: But then that leads us to a philosophical quandary, which is, directly,

1054
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 1: do we let fifty people go around killing people on

1055
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: the inner state because we don't want targeted advertising? I know,

1056
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 1: I know, I'm yeah, I'm clearly I'm swaying in that way.

1057
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: This is not this is not the way that I

1058
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 1: necessarily believe it. I'm just I'm playing that question, bringing

1059
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 1: it back to al Pacino, and bringing it back to

1060
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 1: al Pacino. We're talking off air about you can probably

1061
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: tell Christian are both under the weather, and we were thinking, man,

1062
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 1: our voices are gonna be awesome in this show. Kevin

1063
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 1: Wait speaking of speaking of awesome, do you guys hear

1064
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 1: that music? You hear that just means my having a struke?

1065
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: Ye know, I kind of felt like I was having

1066
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: a stroke the other day. I got a cavity filled

1067
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: for the very first time, and whole half of my

1068
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 1: face was nomin It was very strange sensation. We made

1069
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 1: it through the fire ladies and gentlemen. It's a moment

1070
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 1: with our super producer uh Noel Brown Nolan not choosing

1071
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 1: a nickname for this episode because it feels you guys

1072
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:08,959
Speaker 1: went a little dark with it. It got a little dark,

1073
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 1: got a little dark. Yeah, So what's on your mind?

1074
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 1: What do you think? Yeah? I don't need those kind

1075
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 1: of nicknames been I just don't need them. What's on

1076
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: my mind? Yeah? Yeah, I got a little I've still

1077
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,439
Speaker 1: got this little chest cold thing. Everyone's to the weather.

1078
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: It's this crazy seasonal change. I only seem to get

1079
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: hit with something around this time except from that. Yeah,

1080
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: I know, I haven't got a guy with the baby

1081
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: is the only one who's healthy. Maybe there's an immune

1082
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: system thing that happened. Just wait till he starts school.

1083
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 1: Oh yes, and then exposed to all the other elements,

1084
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 1: the children's elements. You're sending your kid to school, you know, monster,

1085
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: I was thinking about it, but I don't know. What

1086
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 1: do you guys think? Okay, really fast, No, you don't

1087
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 1: want to get in this. You don't want to. But

1088
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 1: I'm really curious. Homeschooling Is that a thing? Ben, guys?

1089
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 1: Should were you at all? And should we? It's definitely

1090
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 1: a thing. Yeah I was not, and I'm the wrong

1091
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 1: person to ask because I don't have kids and probably won't.

1092
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: But get you though, you're so well adjusted by this

1093
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 1: because I went through the fire exactly. That's the way

1094
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: I feel too. So I'll give you my perspective just briefly.

1095
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 1: My daughter is six years old. She went to Montessori

1096
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: school from like pre kge to just now and she

1097
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: loved it. It was great. I really you know. If

1098
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: anyone doesn't know, Monastorius sort of like a um. All

1099
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 1: kids of different age groups are all in the same

1100
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 1: classroom together, and so there's this kind of like leadership

1101
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 1: involved where like the older kids sort of take the

1102
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 1: lead and said an example for the younger kids. And

1103
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 1: it's a great way to socialize kids and make them

1104
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 1: comfortable around in different situations and around different age groups

1105
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 1: of kids. Loved it worked great. I feel like it

1106
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: outlived it's usefulness. I feel like first grade, she needs

1107
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: to be in public school with the rest of the

1108
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: in the fray, you know, no more soft pedaling everything,

1109
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: and you know, I think it's time to throw her

1110
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 1: into the fire. And she's doing great. She loves it.

1111
01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 1: She loves it. So this year, she's starting this year first. Well,

1112
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 1: you you're gonna have to keep me updated with that.

1113
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: So here's the deal, guys, this is what was going

1114
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: on in my world while I was at home editing

1115
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: the video that's coming out this weekend and the one

1116
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:13,439
Speaker 1: that came out last week about serial killers. So you've

1117
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: got but see that it puts a nice bow on it.

1118
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 1: Though I try. I try to look at that stuff

1119
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: in a positive way, you know. Yeah, My positive way

1120
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 1: was how do I make this kid not a serial killer?

1121
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: Like we're gonna make this kid the opposite. I mean,

1122
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 1: it's like a mix of nature and nurture. Right, That's

1123
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: sort of what you guys have to takeaway, is yeah,

1124
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 1: a lot of this talk. Yeah, I mean I usually

1125
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: think that based on the research for all of these things. Yeah,

1126
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 1: they just don't don't lock your kid in the basement. Okay, good,

1127
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:44,960
Speaker 1: don't have one of those yet. It's uh it is

1128
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 1: theoretically possible, not plausible nor ethical or humane, but it

1129
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: is possible to uh read someone who would be genetically

1130
01:07:56,320 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 1: predisposed to some sort of serial murdering. But the good

1131
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 1: news for you is I believe that ship is sailed.

1132
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 1: Perhaps kids already out just stay away from I would

1133
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: imagine that would require have you never get amount of

1134
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: at mean, I've never met Matt's parents. Does he have parents?

1135
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 1: We don't know where Matt came from. Wait a minute,

1136
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:20,759
Speaker 1: I met your didn't your pops come in here one day? Uh? Yeah?

1137
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 1: Sure that was my dad? Are you sure that wasn't

1138
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: a Nazi replicant vampire? So? Um? So, I guess to

1139
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: answer your question, I am. I guess. I'm partially homeschooled,

1140
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 1: like every only child is. Because I hung out with

1141
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 1: myself a lot uh m hmm. You know, okay, never

1142
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 1: mind never mind by Heman VHS tapes. At least it

1143
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 1: wasn't the master as far as I was concerned. Yeah,

1144
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 1: like you have the power. It taught me to believe

1145
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 1: in myself and to be a team player because I

1146
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 1: didn't have any brother or sisters either. And talk to

1147
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:06,599
Speaker 1: you out was that like one of little lessons at

1148
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 1: the end of every episode. And talked to you out

1149
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:11,840
Speaker 1: of or talked to you off the ledge of becoming

1150
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: a homicidal maniac, right e Skeletor, Yeah, well he was

1151
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 1: the least appealing character in the show. He had kids. No,

1152
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 1: he's fun, but hold on, want to be Skeletor? You

1153
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: identified with Skeletor No? No, well, okay, certain aspects of

1154
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 1: it I get, like Cobray Commander, you can understand, you know,

1155
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 1: kind of where they're coming from. Um, but I overall

1156
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 1: I don't agree with their approach and I never really

1157
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: understood the mythology of he Man. I saw the live

1158
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 1: action film again in recent Yeah, I just didn't under

1159
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 1: I didn't understand it, and I didn't understand how it is,

1160
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 1: something about it not being a cartoon and for Rome,

1161
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 1: I'll say it beat me if you have to know.

1162
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 1: But for a grown ass Dolph Lunggren to be walking

1163
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: around calling himself he and and have other people call

1164
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:04,720
Speaker 1: him he man, I mean, I have a I have

1165
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: a I love nicknames, don't get me wrong, but if

1166
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: I meet somebody who is our age and says like

1167
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 1: they call me, you know, spin daddy? Sorry, Derek? So

1168
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 1: how did this get made? The comedy podcast that looks

1169
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 1: at movies actually just did an episode on mass and

1170
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: they talk about this and they kind of reveal the

1171
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 1: I believe there's one of those like behind the scenes

1172
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 1: blog posts. Was it like the secrets behind Masters of

1173
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: the Universe? Talking about how Dolph Lungering got involved in

1174
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:38,600
Speaker 1: the movie. It makes me think when you think of

1175
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: the name he Man, like it just what could be

1176
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:45,080
Speaker 1: a more absurd masculine name, you know? And I'll tell

1177
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 1: you what could be there. But it works because it's

1178
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: a band called man Man, and that, to me, that's

1179
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 1: one upset, but in a great way because they're this

1180
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 1: kind of weirdo. Tom Waits he kind of like, uh,

1181
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 1: you knows pirate kind of rock band? Is it? Is

1182
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:02,599
Speaker 1: it hyphenated? I think it's one I think it's one.

1183
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,479
Speaker 1: There probably is someone somewhere in the world, because there

1184
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:09,639
Speaker 1: are billions of people here, and their name probably is Man. Man.

1185
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: It probably doesn't mean the same thing it does to

1186
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 1: us in English. But how do we get here? Guys?

1187
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 1: How do we get here? Well? You know what, after

1188
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 1: you talk about on cut Serial Killers for an hour,

1189
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 1: out a little bit of your bach, Well, guys, we

1190
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:28,719
Speaker 1: are going to head out. We know this episode went

1191
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:31,599
Speaker 1: a little bit longer, but that's one of the main

1192
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 1: complaints for Get is that people want longer episodes. So

1193
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: we hope that I don't know if enjoy is the

1194
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 1: right word to use for this, but we hope that

1195
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 1: this shed some light on some of the misapprehensions people have.

1196
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 1: And we want to thank Christian Saker for coming in again.

1197
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 1: If you like this episode, you'll also like the Comics

1198
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: Code episode we did Earlierah, that was a fun one. Uh.

1199
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:56,719
Speaker 1: And you can also find me on Stuff to Blow

1200
01:11:56,760 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: your Mind, where I podcast with our colleagues Robert and

1201
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 1: Joe about all things weird and science. E. I guess

1202
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 1: the one I would recommend the most, the sort of

1203
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 1: if you if you liked what we talked about here

1204
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: is that Science of Necrophilia episode that I mentioned earlier,

1205
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 1: but don't discount there are a lot of episodes that

1206
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,320
Speaker 1: you guys have done, especially recently since the three of

1207
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 1: you have been podcasting, that are right, I think in

1208
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 1: our listeners out Yeah, yeah, especially um all of October,

1209
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 1: we've been doing uh, not Halloween themed, but sort of

1210
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 1: October themed topics. So for instance, like those guys tackled

1211
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: natural burials, and Robert and I took a look at

1212
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:42,600
Speaker 1: the psychology of final Girls in slasher movies. Um, so

1213
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:44,799
Speaker 1: we've done some interesting stuff like that. Yeah, your audience

1214
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 1: would certainly be interested, I hope. Oh yeah, check it out.

1215
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 1: If you like stuff they don't want you to know,

1216
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 1: you'll love stuff to blow your mind. Oh wait, before

1217
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 1: we go, there's one more big announcement, which is this

1218
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 1: was our last moment with Noel. It's okay, guys, I

1219
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 1: mean terrible. I knew it was short lived, you know

1220
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 1: it was. It was nice while it lasted. Right, Wait

1221
01:13:08,439 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 1: there's more, yes, but wait, there's more. Uh. The reason

1222
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 1: it's our last moment with Noel in this episode is

1223
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 1: because from now on this is going to be a

1224
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 1: three person show. So when three person plus three person plus.

1225
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 1: Because when you when you tune in from every week,

1226
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 1: and we hope you do, you're gonna be hearing Noel

1227
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 1: and Matt and I and perhaps some special guests if

1228
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 1: I can. I mean, I already have exhausted my my

1229
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 1: podcast Karma maybe cajoling you into this. I'm sure I'll

1230
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 1: come back at some point. There's plenty of more uncought

1231
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:50,400
Speaker 1: serial killers for us to discuss, right, and hopefully something

1232
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:54,839
Speaker 1: more pleasant. Yeah, let's come up with a happier conspiracy theory. Okay,

1233
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 1: so we've we've been talking about doing something about the invisibles.

1234
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 1: That would be a fun one. Yes, that's something a

1235
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: lot of people want to know about the bear and

1236
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 1: staying bears and the Mandela effect. Uh So we'd like

1237
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 1: to pass this question to you, as always, what do

1238
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 1: you want to hear about? Our best suggestions come from you.

1239
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter and Facebook, where we

1240
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 1: are conspiracy stuff, and we have a website. We also

1241
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 1: have a live show. I'm saying all this stuff. Yes,

1242
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 1: don't forget to tune in every week for our live show.

1243
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 1: Maybe at different times we're gonna be experimenting a little

1244
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:32,639
Speaker 1: bit with that, but you can always follow us on Twitter.

1245
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 1: That's the best way to keep up with it, and

1246
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 1: we'll let you know every time we're gonna go live.

1247
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 1: We'll give you a little heads up yeah, and let

1248
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 1: your let your friends know too. In the meantime, Matt,

1249
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:43,800
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who want to talk

1250
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:46,799
Speaker 1: to us, but I think the whole social media stuff

1251
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 1: is belogning. Yes, for all those people who want to

1252
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:52,479
Speaker 1: hop on you know, their A O L accounts, they

1253
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 1: can send us an email. We are conspiracy at how

1254
01:14:55,920 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. M hmmm. For more on this

1255
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:08,839
Speaker 1: topic and other unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube dot com slash

1256
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 1: conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch on Twitter

1257
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 1: at the handle at conspiracy stuff.