WEBVTT - Can I Read Your Mind 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios, 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:13.880 How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:17.600 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.520 I Heart Radio and How Stuff Works and a love 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:23.320 of all things tech and A couple of recent stories 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.560 in the summer of twenty nineteen have been about the 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:32.919 subject of brain computer interfaces or b C eyes. That's 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.640 a topic I've touched on with previous episodes of Tech Stuff, 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:40.000 and if you listened to the show Forward Thinking, we 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.320 covered it on that show as well. But since we've 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.720 now got people like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg behind 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.680 the efforts of creating BC eyes, I figured to be 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.720 a good time to revisit the topic, talk about what 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:57.160 it is, how far along or not far along we 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.640 are with the technology and the ethical can iterations we 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:03.760 need to keep in mind when we're developing tech like this. 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:09.120 So a brain computer interface is exactly what it sounds like. 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.399 It's a methodology to allow a user to control or 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:17.160 interact with a computer directly through brain activity through thought. 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:22.480 It marries the complicated subjects of neuroscience and computer science 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.560 and a lot of media outlets sort of gloss over 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:31.319 how truly complicated this is. We have a tendency to 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.960 either think of our brains as being kind of like computers, 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:38.440 or of computers as being kind of like brains, but 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.040 really they're quite different, and creating an interface that can 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.280 translate the operations of one so that it makes sense 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:50.200 to the other is harder than it sounds. The goal 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.240 of a brain computer interface is to strip away as 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:58.160 much of the barrier between our intent and the computer's 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:02.040 actions as possible, is to get beyond the limitations of 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.280 other types of interfaces. So let's talk about those other 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.960 interfaces for a second to kind of have a comparison here. So, 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:13.000 in the very early days of computers, like the earliest 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:19.160 electro mechanical computers, the interface was incredibly complicated. It consisted 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:23.120 of switches and plugs, so you'd have to physically make 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.080 changes to the machine to run a different calculation. You 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:32.600 programmed it by physically changing the connections. Operating a computer 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.400 required learning a pretty intricate system, so it was a 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:40.120 very high barrier to using computers. But on the other hand, 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:45.040 there were hardly any computers to use, so it wasn't 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.320 like people were stumped all the time. It wasn't like 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:49.640 you were in the I. T Department looking at a 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:53.000 manual that was five thousand pages long. There are only 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.559 a few computers in the world at all. Now, gradually 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.360 this gave way to other interface systems, and it first 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:04.320 they were still incredibly complicated, at least by today's standards. 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.799 The punch cards of yesterday are a really good example. 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.480 You could feed a series of punch cards which represented 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.760 a program, to a computer. The computer would read the 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:20.200 punch cards, make whatever calculations were indicated by those punch cards, 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:22.720 and then it might in turn spit out a different 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.560 set of punch cards, or it might light up some 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.840 indicator lights. Maybe if you were lucky, you had a 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.560 printer and it would print out a result. But boy, 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.679 it was still a pretty tough barrier of entry as 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:38.600 far as computer use was concerned. It wasn't something the 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:42.000 average person could tackle on his or her own. Now. 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:46.760 A huge breakthrough was the incorporation of computer displays and keyboards, 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.320 and there were other advances in computers at the time 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:51.880 that also made a huge difference, like the development of 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.920 operating systems and high level programming languages. And we obviously 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.800 still use keyboards and displace today. So these were really 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:04.920 sticky types of interfaces so to speak. Actually that could 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.840 be literal if you tend to drink sugary sodas while 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:12.680 you're computing, but I'm mostly talking about the metaphorical here. Anyway. 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:16.480 The computer mouse would then expand how we would interact 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:21.280 with computers, as would the graphic user interface or gooey. 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.479 This would allow us to have new ways to interact 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.400 with our machines, and then we would see further advancements 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:31.720 like voice recognition systems and touch screen interfaces. It was 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.400 pretty typical that each advance in technology, if it was 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:41.240 implemented well, would make interactions with computers easier and more natural. 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.839 So when you see a kid look at a screen 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.760 and the kid has never really played with keyboard, mouse 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.360 or even touch screens, yet you might see them reach 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.160 out and try to touch things on the screen, Well, 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.000 that tells you, oh, a touch screen might work better 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:02.599 for certain things. Maybe not everything, but certain things. And 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.159 then you start to implement that kind of interface in 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.880 low and behold, you see I've created a new way 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.839 to interact with this machine. Well, brain computer interfaces would 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:17.880 remove even those small gaps between our intent and executing 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.160 a command on a computer. Ideally, you would have a 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.200 non invasive technology, meaning you wouldn't have to have any 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.160 kind of surgery or anything in order to actually use 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.320 this stuff, and that technology would be able to interpret 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.279 your thoughts as commands, and then the computer would carry 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.719 those out, and the computer could potentially send information back 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.839 to you through those same channels that you could interpret 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:43.360 in some meaningful way. And there are a lot of 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:47.440 potential uses for this kind of technology, and many of 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:51.839 those uses are truly noble in their mission. For example, 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:53.839 and I'll talk a lot about this in this episode, 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.919 it could allow people who have severe mobility issues and 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.680 outlet for interacting with the world around on them that 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.559 they might not otherwise have. With the proper interface, someone 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.160 who is paralyzed and may not be able to move 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.880 or even speak could use the interface to activate commands 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.880 on a computer in order to communicate with others or 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.640 carry out tasks with the help of robotics and automated systems. 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:22.400 We've actually seen applications of brain computer interfaces do this 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:27.360 kind of thing already to a limited degree, and frankly, 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:32.440 it's amazing and inspiring. I I highly recommend you seek 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:37.080 out stories and videos about these types of projects because 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:42.560 they are phenomenal. But there are use cases beyond helping 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.320 people gain more autonomy, and some of them are a 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:49.520 bit well, let's say they're a bit questionable. So let's 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.680 walk down the history of brain computer interfaces and then 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:59.120 we will revisit these specific examples, as well as what 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.760 is currently going on with Elon Musk and Facebook getting 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.799 into the game. Well before such a thing could even 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.920 be theorized as a brain computer interface, we first had 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:15.240 to understand more about how the brain itself works. And 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.480 this is a non trivial thing. The brain was largely 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.680 an organ of mystery for a very long time. In 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:27.240 the late nineteenth century, physicians and scientists were first starting 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.560 to learn that there is electrical activity in the brains 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:33.720 of mammals. We started to get an understanding that our 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:39.480 nervous system is an electrochemical system, that electricity and chemicals 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.080 play a very important part in sending messages through this 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.960 system in a very sophisticated way. Now, this was the 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:52.000 same time that physicists were getting a better understanding about energy, 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:56.000 and so there was a curiosity about energy in the brain. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.280 The brain does stuff, It must get energy, it must 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.240 use energy. What is that mechanism? What the physicists of 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.480 the time didn't yet understand was that the brain was 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:10.040 this electro chemical machine. They didn't have a complete picture yet. 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:15.640 So for a few decades, research mostly with animals like dogs, rabbits, 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:20.200 and monkeys, showed that brains generated electrical activity in some fashion, 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.560 and by the early twentieth century we had a rudimentary 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:29.320 understanding of brain waves. Then Hans Burger, a German psychiatrist 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.680 and physicist, recorded the first human E E G. In 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:38.280 the mid nineteen twenties. Now, Burger was interested in investigating 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:42.840 psychical energy in the brain. He was convinced that there 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.520 is some energy beyond what is needed to do quote 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:50.680 unquote work that would be thinking and operating the human body. 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.920 He never did uncover any sort of psychical energy and 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:59.240 his research, but his invention of the electro and cephalogram 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.040 would set the stage for neuroscience in the twentieth century. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:05.440 And I'll have to do a full episode about Burger 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:09.160 in the future because he was a really interesting person. 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:15.520 His life story is full of drama. Now, over the 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:20.520 next several decades after Burger's invention of the e G, 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.040 or at least the the refining of the e G, 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.920 since there were sort of precursors to the E e 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.280 G before Burger got involved anyway. Over the following years, 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:34.840 scientists and doctors refined their understanding of electrical activity in 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:38.560 the brain, and they observed phenomena like R E M sleep. 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:43.679 They identified different types of brain waves. Neuroscientists also got 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.440 a deeper understanding about what the different parts of the 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:50.960 brain do and are responsible for, and that gets really 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.800 super complicated. Their sections of the brain that are dedicated 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.400 to very specific tasks and major parts of the brain 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:02.040 include stuff like the frontal lobe, the parietal lobe, the 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.320 temporal lobe, the occipital lobe, cerebellum, and more. And I 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:11.120 am no neuroscientist, and to go into deep detail on 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.680 all of these parts would necessitate at least a couple 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.200 of episodes plus an expert on the subject matter. So 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.000 I'm just gonna leave the general discussion of the brain 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:27.920 with an acknowledgement that they are really complicated. Now, there's 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.240 still a ton that we don't know about the brain, 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.480 and probably there's stuff we don't know that we don't 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:38.640 know but we've made a lot of progress, which has 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:43.520 led to some enterprising researchers, scientists, and technologists to look 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:47.040 into ways to create an interface between the machine in 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:51.520 our heads and the computers around us. In the nineteen sixties, 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:57.119 a neurophysicist named William gray Walter demonstrated that the electrical 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:01.960 signals and brains could do useful work outside of our noggins. 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.800 And it was a fairly primitive demonstration, but an effective one. 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:10.520 He had subjects who had electrode implants for e g s. 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:14.400 By the way, e g s can either involve having 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:20.520 surgical implants of electrodes or electrodes that are part of 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.640 you know, the sticky pads that stick against the scalp. 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.520 They have to be positioned in very precise places. But 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.679 you can have invasive or non invasive e g s. 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:35.040 What William gray Walter was working with were the invasive types. 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.199 So he had these people who are wired up e 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.959 g s and they were navigating through a slide show 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:45.280 with an old slide show projector, and they were using 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:49.280 a remote control to advance to the next slide. So 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.280 when they were done looking at a slide, or if 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.160 they were told to go to the next slide. They 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:55.840 would push a button and it would go to the 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.440 next slide. But what Walter didn't tell these people who 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.760 had their e g s hooked up to the system 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:06.440 was that the remote control was a nert it. It 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:10.360 didn't work at all. It was just a dummy remote. Rather, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:15.440 when the subject's brain sent the command I'm going to 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.600 use the remote now, the electrodes would pick up that 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:23.319 brain activity and it would send those signals onto an amplifier, 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.560 which would boost the signal enough to send a command 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.520 to go to the next slide to the projector. It's 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.319 a very simple one, just the same sort of electrical 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.200 impulse that the projector would get if you push the 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:40.160 button now. The subjects reportedly were startled by this experience 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.200 because frequently they would make the decision that they were 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.760 going to go to the next slide, and they would 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.600 be in the process of pushing the button when the 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:54.480 slide would change in advance before they had pushed the button. 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.400 They said it started to feel like the slide projector 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.760 had anticipated their action. It had guessed that they were 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.160 ready to move on even though they had not yet 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.440 pushed the button. And in a way, that's exactly what 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.600 it had done, or rather it was able to act 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.800 faster than the subject was, and it raised some really 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:19.600 interesting questions about consciousness because the implication was that we 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:23.320 can arrive at a decision to do something before we 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.480 are actually aware of the decision we have made. And 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.199 so in theory, if you have a brain computer interface, 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.400 you might get the sensation that you're working with a 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.080 machine that's actually anticipating what you want to do before 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.840 you are aware that you wanted to do it, which 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.320 is both kind of creepy and amazing. Now, in reality, 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.080 it's because you wanted to do that thing, but your 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:51.680 awareness of your desire hasn't caught up yet. It's brains 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.120 are funny things. It's also possible that because of those 0:13:55.160 --> 0:14:00.400 implanted electrodes, which can detect activity and relatively small regions 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.480 of the brain, allowed for more precision when looking for 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.080 signals that would indicate I'm going to push the button, 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.560 rather than signals that would indicate something like blink now 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.480 or eat soon or whatever. So, in other words, it's 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.400 very important to target the neurons that are going to 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.840 be responsible for whatever activity you're looking for. You can't 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:23.600 just have, you know, a general brain reading device that's 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.320 looking for any electrical activity in the brain. There's always 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.840 electrical activity in the brain, so you have to be 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.520 looking for precise activity, or else you would have a 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:38.680 system that's constantly activating under no particular impulse. Jacques J. 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:45.520 Vidal coined the phrase brain computer interface in nineteen The 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.080 DOLL presented a plan towards establishing the technology for such 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.479 an interface at the University of California at Los Angeles. 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.160 And it should come as no surprise that one of 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.920 the big organizations that has funded a lot of research 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.720 into brain computer interfaces is DARPA, or the Defense Advanced 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.920 Research Projects Agency in the United States. This is the 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.560 part of the Department of Defense that oversees money that 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.640 can be granted to projects that relate back to national 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:18.200 security and defense strategies for the United States. Sometimes these 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:22.040 projects have an obvious connection to national defense, such as 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:26.040 research into new types of weaponry. Other times the connection 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.720 might not be quite as clear, such as the DARPA 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:33.720 Grand challenges that help bootstrap the development of driverless car technologies. 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.320 But I think you could agree that brain computer interfaces, 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.480 you could think of a lot of different potential uses 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:45.760 to augment national defense with that kind of technology. So 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.960 DARPA has funded a ton of research into BC eyes 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.480 and much of that work has had incredible results. Now 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.840 I'm not just talking about device that would let you control, 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.640 say a computer cursor with your mind, but technologies that 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:03.240 would help people regain lost senses like hearing or vision. 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.480 And it's all through stimulating neurons in specific ways, so 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:11.040 it becomes a bidirectional communications channel. It's incredible stuff. And 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.120 again the subject matter is vast and it would require 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.880 lots of episodes. But the bit I wanted to focus 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.880 on in the early history was a project in nineteen 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.520 seventy four. It was called the Close Coupled Man Machine 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.880 Systems Project, and later on it would undergo a name change. 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.840 It would become known as bio cybernetics. To quote the article, 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.640 DARPA funded efforts in the development of novel brain computer 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:39.080 interface technologies in the April two thousand, fifteen Journal of 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:44.520 Neuroscience Methods. Quote. This program investigated the application of human 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:49.560 physiological signals, including brain signals as measured non invasively using 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.520 either E E G or magneto and cephalography m EG, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.760 to enable direct communication between humans and machines, and to 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:04.159 monitor neural states associated with vigilance, fatigue, emotions, decision making, perception, 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:08.920 and general cognitive ability. The program yielded notable advancements such 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:13.159 as detailed understanding of single trial sensory evoked responses in 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.600 the e g. Of human participants. These efforts demonstrated that 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.680 neural activity in response to visual checkerboard stimuli alternating at 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.000 different frequencies at each of four fixation points could be 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.560 decoded in real time and used to navigate a cursor 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:33.440 through a simple maze. End quote. Fascinating stuff. Now we're 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.520 gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:37.840 I'll give a little bit more about the history and 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:50.359 talk about the different approaches to brain computer interfaces. Now 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.399 to detail every bc I project since the early nineteen 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:58.320 seventies would take us hours. There have been countless. Some 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.800 of them have led to amazing sets and breakthroughs, some 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:05.800 revealed frustrating barriers and challenges that we've yet to overcome. 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.439 I'll talk about a few more examples in a moment, 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.560 and I should stress that I'm just kind of arbitrarily 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.720 picking these examples because there's been so much amazing work 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.240 in this field. But before I get into that, I 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.560 want to talk about one of the biggest challenges in 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.840 the way of a robust brain computer interface, and that's 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:27.640 reading the signals of the brain reliably. So there are 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.080 two broad categories you can consider when it comes to 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:35.359 monitoring brain activity, and those would be invasive methods and 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:40.280 non invasive methods, or surgical and non surgical. Typically, though 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:44.399 there are some methods that are considered non invasive that 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.040 still involve implanting stuff into the brain, it's just it 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.920 tends to be through less invasive procedures like an injection 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.520 as opposed to brain surgery. And uh yeah, But generally 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.760 we're talking about technology that has to be surgically implanted 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.280 on the brain, or to anology that can monitor brain 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:05.000 activity without first having to you know, crack open a skull. 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.880 And as you can imagine, this is a pretty big 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.280 difference right between these categories. So let's break down the 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.040 pros and cons of each of them. So the cons 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.920 with invasive approaches are pretty darn easy to anticipate, right, 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.080 I mean, we use brain surgery as a stand in 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:25.360 for any activity that requires an incredible amount of knowledge, understanding, 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.280 and skill to perform. It's right out there with rocket science. 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.159 We do that because we know brain surgery is freaking hard, 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:34.919 it's risky, and I think it's safe to say that 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.640 the vast majority of people out there aren't too keen 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:41.560 to undergo a surgical procedure unless the potential benefits are 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:47.080 truly impressive, maybe life saving or life changing. Invasive methods 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:51.720 typically involve either implanting electrodes directly into brain matter or 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.880 using small sensor pads that essentially stick to the exterior 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.520 of the brain. Implanting electrodes comes with its own set 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.960 of challenge is and one is that it can cause 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.240 scarring in the brain, and if scar tissue forms near 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.240 the electrode, it can interfere with the electrodes ability to 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.600 pick up that electrical activity from neurons, so the scarring 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.080 process can prevent the electrodes from being able to do 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:18.000 their jobs. Another challenge is that sometimes an electrode could 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:21.080 shift slightly in the brain, and even a small shift 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:22.920 could mean the electrode would no longer be able to 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.159 pick up signals from the targeted neurons. There have been 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:30.320 some impressive advancements in getting around these challenges. Philip our 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.640 Kennedy of Emory University, which is just down the road 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.119 from our office in Atlanta, developed a neural electrode with 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:41.360 a tip encased in a tiny glass cone. Neurons would 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:45.560 actually grow into the cone and reach the electrode. The 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.800 cone helped protect the electrode from scarring, and the neurons 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.200 growing into the cone helped it resist any shifting. Kennedy 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:54.679 worked with a few patients to test the design and 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:58.880 work out actual useful brain computer interactions. One of those 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.200 patients was a man named Johnny Ray, a man who 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:06.560 was nearly immobile and incapable of communication after a severe stroke. 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:12.400 Surgeons implanted electrodes in Ray's brain in March, and Ray 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.280 learned how to move a cursor on a screen. He 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.280 was imagining that he was moving the cursor with his 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:21.719 hand like he was making hand movements, or imagining that 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.000 because he didn't have that capability anymore. He later learned 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:27.560 to move a cursor on a screen to highlight letters, 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.879 and then he would click on them like with a mouse, 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.399 except he did it by twitching his shoulders, one of 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.479 the few muscle movements he could still do. When he 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.000 was asked by the media what he felt when he 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:43.040 moved the cursor, he spelled out the word nothing, which 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.760 doctors actually interpreted to mean that Ray no longer had 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:50.360 to even imagine moving his hand anymore. His brain had 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:54.000 become trained to move the cursor through thought alone without 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:57.320 having to have the hand as sort of an intermediate step. 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.840 And this highlights one of the biggest ed vantages that 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:05.600 the invasive methodology has over the non invasive version. Implants 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.159 have a more direct path to the neurons that they 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.800 are monitoring. They are more precise, they're more finely attuned. 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.680 They can pick up signals much more easily. Brown University 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:20.160 professor John P. Donohue is another pioneer using electrode implants 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.520 as part of research into brain computer interfaces. His team 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:27.280 created a system called brain Gate, which initially had ninety 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.600 six electrodes arrayed on a small implant, and by small 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:34.080 immunit measures about four millimeters per side. It's about the 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.040 size of a baby aspirin. As Science Daily put it, 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:40.959 the stories about brain Gate are pretty inspiring. People who 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:44.080 have become paralyzed have undergone the surgical procedure to have 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:47.480 the electrode array implanted in their brains, then they have 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.760 gone through an extensive training period to learn how to 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:54.880 use this technology. In that training period, they learn how 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:57.960 to control some exterior technology with their thoughts. It might 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.880 be a cursor on a screen, giving them the ability 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:04.200 to communicate and run applications kind of like a computer mouse. 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:07.840 It could be a robotic limb. And on top of that, 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:10.800 there's been work to create systems that can replicate a 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:14.520 sense of touch in the user. So not only can 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:17.160 the person with the implants in commands to an external 0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:21.120 piece of technology, they can also experience tactile feedback as 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:24.400 if that external tech was one of their natural limbs. 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.119 So a person outfitted with a robotic arm connected to 0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:29.960 this type of interface could not just pick stuff up, 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:33.160 which is already phenomenal with a robotic limb, they could 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:36.880 actually feel how tightly they were holding the thing they 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:39.520 picked up, and that becomes really important for things like 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:43.199 fine motor skills. And this is incredible stuff. But I 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:46.920 would still argue that it's fairly primitive in the sense 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:49.679 that I think we're just at the very dawn of 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:53.840 being able to harness this type of technology that we 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:57.000 We've made some incredible strides, but there's a long way 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:01.200 to go. Now, let's get back to the non invasive approach. 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:03.879 So a clear advantage here is that you don't have 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:07.080 to have any sort of surgical procedure to make use 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:11.359 of noninvasive technology. And an e G can be an 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:14.480 example of a noninvasive approach. Right, you just have those 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:18.400 electrodes that you slap onto your scalp, but you don't 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:22.840 have to have a transcranial system. Uh So you can't 0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:25.720 have e G s that are transcranial, meaning that they 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:28.359 it requires brain surgery and you have wires that stick 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:31.440 out through your cranium, through your skull. But you can 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:35.359 have noninvasive ones too. But even with the electrodes on 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:37.640 the scalp, we run into other problems, and a big 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:39.960 one is that the signals in our brains aren't really 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:44.920 that strong electrically speaking, and their skulls are fairly decent 0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:48.399 at muffling those signals. Plus, if we're moving around a 0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:51.399 lot having the rig we're using it, it needs to 0:24:51.440 --> 0:24:56.760 remain steady because otherwise we might end up misaligning things 0:24:56.760 --> 0:25:00.119 and again we end up reading the wrong neurons, and 0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:02.960 then an irrelevant brain signal could initiate a command that 0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:07.400