Speaker 1: What's that.
Speaker 2: Bed? It's booky, joky, I'm really sure it's dead. It's coming,
Speaker 2: it's a way. Wait a minute, I'm ghosted.
Speaker 3: I usays, Hey boo, it's me Roz.
Speaker 2: I'm joined today by River Butcher, a hilarious comedian that
Speaker 2: I have been a fan of for years, and we're
Speaker 2: going to get into it in just a moment. I'll
Speaker 2: make it just just just a brief little intro today.
Speaker 2: There's a video version of this episode that you can
Speaker 2: find in the link in the show notes and on
Speaker 2: social media and on YouTube and all that stuff, So
Speaker 2: please go check out the video version on Patreon. This week,
Speaker 2: I've got a bonus clip with River talking about an
Speaker 2: eBay haunted doll and that it'll be an episode of
Speaker 2: me looking up paranormal stuff on Patreon this week, and
Speaker 2: a video of me talking about some stuff this week,
Speaker 2: so check that out. All of that info is in
Speaker 2: the description of this episode. Anyway, here we go, me
Speaker 2: and River Butcher talking about the paranormal and with the show.
Speaker 2: I'm joined by River Butcher.
Speaker 1: Hello, oh my god, Hello, how are you. I'm good, Ross,
Speaker 1: how are you doing today?
Speaker 2: So good? We were just talking about Teal Swan and
Speaker 2: our fascination of cult leaders and psychics, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were really going down our own rabbit hole
Speaker 1: of our own experiences going down rabbit holes over but.
Speaker 2: You've never been to a psycond which I want to
Speaker 2: write about. Psychics and cults are different.
Speaker 1: Different things, are different things overlap, but two different things.
Speaker 1: But like tears and rectangles.
Speaker 2: Because you were somebody that had told me about what's
Speaker 2: it called the Deep End?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I made a joke about it on a
Speaker 1: show that we were on together.
Speaker 2: But which in my mind you were speaking to me first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I just want to remind people I am working.
Speaker 2: Yes, we were doing we were both booked, we were
Speaker 2: we were on the and everything. Yeah, and you talked
Speaker 2: about Teal Swan did, and I was like, I gotta
Speaker 2: figure out who this is. And she's a little psychic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she claims to be.
Speaker 2: She claims to be, but she's also a cult.
Speaker 1: Leader hardcore And she says she's not a cult leader
Speaker 1: because she was formerly in occult So how could she
Speaker 1: possibly be a cult leader? Which is the most flawed
Speaker 1: logic I've ever heard in my life.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure that's sure about.
Speaker 1: That, saying I'm queer. How could I possibly be a
Speaker 1: bad person? You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't
Speaker 1: those two things are not You can't that doesn't work
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I'm queer and I'm a bad person too.
Speaker 2: You've never been to a psychic No, I haven't.
Speaker 1: Why that's a great question. I do think I had
Speaker 1: a lot of like fear of them from childhood or
Speaker 1: whatever because I went to Catholic schools. Me too, not Catholic.
Speaker 1: But are you Catholic? I mean technically, I.
Speaker 2: Mean I was raised Catholic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like your family's Catholic. Yeah yeah, Like here's my
Speaker 1: family is not Catholic.
Speaker 2: Okay, but they did you have to do like sacraments
Speaker 2: or stuff like that going to the school.
Speaker 1: No, because the school that I the first school that
Speaker 1: I went to that was a Catholic school was I
Speaker 1: used to know the word for this, but they didn't
Speaker 1: have it was non parochial. It was just a standalone.
Speaker 1: It was like a Nuns school. It had a convent
Speaker 1: of Dominican nuns.
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with nuns.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, me too. My first crush was in Madeline.
Speaker 1: You know that. I've used to know her name, but
Speaker 1: I don't remember now, right, a woman in uniform, you.
Speaker 2: Know Adeline, Sister Act None, Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: Sister Act too. Back in the habit. I think they
Speaker 1: pitched that one first and then they worked backwards.
Speaker 2: It's a perfect name. It's a perfect name, and it
Speaker 2: has Lauren Hell.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: So okay, so you never went, second, never went. But
Speaker 2: so you weren't Catholic. But you think the Catholic school,
Speaker 2: they they scared the demons. Audio.
Speaker 1: I don't know if this was your experience in Catholic school,
Speaker 1: but it's like I was given the long list of
Speaker 1: bad things and not given the very short list of
Speaker 1: here's how to be a kind person, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like as an adult now you look but
Speaker 1: I look back and I see things like love thy
Speaker 1: neighbor as thyself, Like this is this is not the
Speaker 1: It was like, don't do that, don't do that, and
Speaker 1: don't do that, don't be this, don't do that, don't
Speaker 1: do that. You know, anything fun, anything fun, anything like human,
Speaker 1: you know, like but not a lot of emphasis on
Speaker 1: caring for other people, you know, trying to be you know,
Speaker 1: kind and open and accepting and tolerant and all those things.
Speaker 2: But when we talk about the paranormal. Yes, well, I
Speaker 2: always talk about the Catholic religion, in my opinion, is
Speaker 2: the most paranormal of any of them. Spooky uky totally.
Speaker 2: Like someone was just talking about which is spread to
Speaker 2: start with, Yeah, I mean these people or somebody was
Speaker 2: recently telling me about which is being paranormal, and I
Speaker 2: was like, sure, maybe, but to me, like Catholic, a
Speaker 2: Catholic priest and getting the demons and the turn of
Speaker 2: the blood into water to wine or or vice versa.
Speaker 1: Transsubstantiation and all that stuff. You know, what's interesting is
Speaker 1: have you ever read Transgender Warriors by Leslie Feinberg. No,
Speaker 1: I haven't think it came about ninety six or something.
Speaker 1: I've been slowly working my way through there, and they
Speaker 1: pause it that like, essentially those the Catholic Church, because
Speaker 1: it is the the church of like the Crusades and everything,
Speaker 1: borrowed a ton of the sort of pagan I mean,
Speaker 1: I know that this is we've already talked about this,
Speaker 1: but like borrowed all this pagan ritual to pull the
Speaker 1: Pagans away and get them into the church. And that's
Speaker 1: why it's so performance based and like all the yes,
Speaker 1: and then say it's bad when they do it, but
Speaker 1: when we do it, it's good. That's a lot of that,
Speaker 1: uh huh, A lot of that, which is you know,
Speaker 1: like all the witchy stuff.
Speaker 2: You know, it's very witchy, it's very witchy. It's a
Speaker 2: lot of spell work going on during a mass incenseations.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I love that sensory.
Speaker 2: I love it as like a performance.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, as a performance art piece, if you can
Speaker 1: set aside all the rest of it, yeah for sure.
Speaker 2: Right yeah, right, So where how do you feel about
Speaker 2: ghosts and all this stuff?
Speaker 1: It's a really funny question.
Speaker 2: It's a question to me, very normal actually every.
Speaker 1: Day I feel about ghosts. No, it's just like a
Speaker 1: funny question to consider, like how do I feel about ghosts? Yeah?
Speaker 2: How you feel?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there was a time where I
Speaker 1: used to be really creeped out by it, and I
Speaker 1: don't know what that aligns with in my own life,
Speaker 1: but thinking about it and coming on this show, it's like,
Speaker 1: I totally believe in ghosts one hundred percent, you know,
Speaker 1: like in varying ways. But when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: I used to feel like I was talking to my
Speaker 1: dead relatives that I had never met you know, what
Speaker 1: do you mean? I mean like at night, I would
Speaker 1: like talk to my great grandmother that I never knew.
Speaker 2: Like where did this come from? Was this just on
Speaker 2: your own? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean my mom. I mean, I lived in an
Speaker 1: intergenerational house, so it, I guess made sense to me.
Speaker 1: There were paintings of these great grandmothers and they were
Speaker 1: very like integral to her story that she shared, you
Speaker 1: know that she was like telling me when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, and so I think that I felt their
Speaker 1: presence through that, and then just it made sense to
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, I'll just talk. I mean, I very
Speaker 1: much had an active like imaginary friend group, you know.
Speaker 1: And so to me, when you when I think back
Speaker 1: on that, I'm like, is it imaginary or is it intuitive?
Speaker 1: I don't know, And is it why? Why would I
Speaker 1: just diminish or dismiss the possibility that I was actually
Speaker 1: talking to them?
Speaker 2: Oh, you totally were. I mean, if you're talking to that,
Speaker 2: they might not be talking about they might not be.
Speaker 1: Talking back, yeah that's the thing.
Speaker 2: But still or they might be communicating another way.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, through other things, through other things.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well okay, So do you know people that have
Speaker 2: had stories and you believe, like, you know, if they
Speaker 2: telt me it's real, then it must be real.
Speaker 1: And yeah, like like do I have friends who have
Speaker 1: ghost stories?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I wish I could think of them, any
Speaker 1: of them specifically right now. But I totally I don't
Speaker 1: dismiss anybody's experience. It's your experience, and if you like
Speaker 1: interpret or feel that way about it, then who am
Speaker 1: I to say that it's not right real?
Speaker 2: What about you?
Speaker 1: I mean again, same thing. I don't know that I've
Speaker 1: I've definitely had experiences where I've felt like I've seen
Speaker 1: one where I'm just like, what the hell was that?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: What was that?
Speaker 1: Like just floating things in the sky that are very fast,
Speaker 1: you know, not on any substances or like that, just
Speaker 1: very you know, like totally unexplained and unexplainable where here
Speaker 1: out here in Ohio, like all over the place they're
Speaker 1: trying to communicate with the Yeah, I think so, But
Speaker 1: I don't, you know, I can't. I can't imagine that
Speaker 1: we on this tiny little rock are the only you know,
Speaker 1: divine beings or the only beings with what we have,
Speaker 1: you know, like the rains that we have and all
Speaker 1: those things I do. I watched like that. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've seen that UFO documentary that's like six
Speaker 1: hours long on I have seen them all.
Speaker 2: Well, the power just went out. It was creepy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it has happened before.
Speaker 1: It's ghosts, absolutely, either ghosts or aliens, one or the other.
Speaker 1: And who could say that they're not the same thing.
Speaker 2: That's true. It's possible they could. They could be us
Speaker 2: from the future.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying this documentary that I was talking
Speaker 1: about before the aliens pulled the plug, right, is that
Speaker 1: you know that that is sort of the I just
Speaker 1: never thought of aliens in that context before, like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're us, just very far into the future. They's just interesting.
Speaker 2: It makes sense.
Speaker 1: Well, that makes a lot of sense given that we
Speaker 1: live with animals that were us in the past, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like that we came from so
Speaker 1: it makes sense that there would be other beings that
Speaker 1: are us in the future.
Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense. Yeah, Now if they
Speaker 2: were to take you up there, would you go or
Speaker 2: would you want to go? Uh? I mean I'm not.
Speaker 1: Big into heights, and I'm definitely scared of space because
Speaker 1: I'm only recently back into swimming, and I feel like
Speaker 1: space is just you know, water, even more terrifying, right
Speaker 1: because there's no error, you know, So I just have
Speaker 1: like those would be my fears, not I don't think
Speaker 1: they're gonna probe me or anything, like they already understood,
Speaker 1: they already know what's going on back there.
Speaker 2: I never think about aliens floating floating like wherever they are,
Speaker 2: there's no gravity up in wherever planet they live on,
Speaker 2: wherever they go to. I never think about that, and yeah.
Speaker 1: Like what kind of there I would be scared? Would
Speaker 1: I try to do it? Probably? I don't think that
Speaker 1: they would be. I tend to, uh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like aliens, if they are us as future beings,
Speaker 1: hopefully they would be on a list colonialism vibe and
Speaker 1: they would be like, yeah, check out what we've created,
Speaker 1: as opposed to like I'm going to steal you, right,
Speaker 1: you know, but which is a very uh you know,
Speaker 1: colonialist settler like projection that an alien would could only
Speaker 1: want to hurt you, you know, because that's like the
Speaker 1: perpetuation of that.
Speaker 2: Totally. I think they come in peace.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: My thought constantly lately is I know what's happening on
Speaker 2: this planet, and I don't love it, so I'll take
Speaker 2: my chance.
Speaker 1: To go wherever. Yeah, why not would you go to Mars?
Speaker 2: Like with Elon Musk or something in that. Now, I'm
Speaker 2: not going on a plane or a spaceship or anything
Speaker 2: with Elon Musk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, with anything that even remotely has to do
Speaker 1: with Elon Musk or some sort of person trying to
Speaker 1: be like Elon Musk. Like, no, thank you, No, I'm
Speaker 1: like all the rich people should just go to Mars.
Speaker 2: Can I tell you about something called the bell Mez faces?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yes, please?
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of it?
Speaker 1: No? I haven't. I mean faces I've heard of, yes,
Speaker 1: but not the bill mes.
Speaker 2: These are a very specific kind of face. It's a
Speaker 2: face that was found in and Luthia, Okay, and it's
Speaker 2: in a city called Bellemes de la Mora, La la
Speaker 2: Mora Lea. I'll tell you more about it, Lera. It
Speaker 2: was in nineteen seventy one, Okay. There was a woman
Speaker 2: named Maria Gomez Perera and she notices a weird stain
Speaker 2: on her kitchen floor one day. Now, the stain, it
Speaker 2: starts to form into a face over time, like over
Speaker 2: I think maybe a couple of days. I'm not really
Speaker 2: sure the exact details. Every time you look this stuff up,
Speaker 2: there's like one source says this, so I'm kind of
Speaker 2: compiling a bunch of different sources. But essentially, she starts
Speaker 2: to notice that the stain on the ground is forming
Speaker 2: a face, and so she she's like, I get the
Speaker 2: swift for jet out and she's scrubbing it. She's doing everything. No,
Speaker 2: this face is just like thanks for the facial Like
Speaker 2: it's not going anywhere. So she gets her husband and
Speaker 2: her son to take a pick axe to it and
Speaker 2: they just tear the face up. They re cement it.
Speaker 2: A couple weeks later. Guess what, faces are back and
Speaker 2: so is our audio who so, but this time it's
Speaker 2: brought its crew. It's like it's like this family. They
Speaker 2: they try to mess with me, I'm gonna get my friends.
Speaker 2: So now there's a bunch of faces on the floor.
Speaker 2: So word starts traveling around the town. Everyone's come in.
Speaker 2: They want to see these faces on this lady's floor.
Speaker 2: They want to see the face floor. So the many
Speaker 2: faces exactly, and the police are doing crowd control. There's
Speaker 2: so many people come in to see the face floor.
Speaker 2: I don't think there was much going on in this
Speaker 2: small town.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it sounds like it. Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: a can be terrified by a stain and be all
Speaker 1: those people show up, not a lot going on in
Speaker 1: your town. I'm just glad they didn't let the cops
Speaker 1: mess with the faces because they probably would have killed
Speaker 1: those faces.
Speaker 2: Yeah they didn't. These These were Spanish cops that are
Speaker 2: just like trying to make sure that people aren't getting
Speaker 2: in there. I think they didn't want them to destroy
Speaker 2: the faces.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were like these faces and make some money
Speaker 2: on these faces exactly tourism of course, you know. And
Speaker 2: so they start having professionals, parapsychologists and stuff start coming in.
Speaker 2: They stuff flying in far and wide, and they're doing
Speaker 2: all kinds of tests on the floor and it's leading
Speaker 2: some of them. Some of them are led to believe
Speaker 2: that it is a hoax, that this family has somehow
Speaker 2: figured out a way to make these faces so that
Speaker 2: they can charge a fee and get people. But I
Speaker 2: don't know. To me, I'm like, why would they allow
Speaker 2: professionals to study it if it was a hoax?
Speaker 1: So are their photographs?
Speaker 2: Oh you better believe I got some for you right
Speaker 2: here here.
Speaker 1: I mean that that's but that's the thing Ros And
Speaker 1: this kind of goes back to whom we mentioned at
Speaker 1: the top, te Swan teal Swan, is that like the
Speaker 1: confidence of I mean con is short for confidence, you know,
Speaker 1: Like is that true? Yeah, if you're a con man,
Speaker 1: you know to use the gender term. But if you're
Speaker 1: a con person con man, you're a confidence man.
Speaker 2: I never knew that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so you are playing, all you have to
Speaker 1: do is be confident in what it is that you're doing. Well,
Speaker 1: people will believe it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're the type of person that is half.
Speaker 1: Of stand up comedy, ninety five percent of it.
Speaker 2: It's a bunch of cons Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sometimes in a positive way. It's like, oh, I
Speaker 1: just need to be confident of what I'm saying, and it.
Speaker 2: Works sure, because I mean maybe confidence is concealing, not confident,
Speaker 2: lack of confidence. Confidence. So okay, this here is I
Speaker 2: believe the first face right here, and then it they
Speaker 2: noticed that the face is a more face. No, no, this
Speaker 2: is the same face. The faces.
Speaker 1: Oh this is pre pickax. Both of these I.
Speaker 2: Think this is post pickax, post pickax. Something I didn't
Speaker 2: mention was that the faces they're noticing are changing expressions,
Speaker 2: not like right in front of their face, but they'll
Speaker 2: come back and now the face is like.
Speaker 1: So we're talking, this is like a stone floor. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: so do you believe this?
Speaker 2: Well, we'll get to some of the reasons why it's sketchy,
Speaker 2: but let me show you literally here's another one. I mean,
Speaker 2: this stuff kind of reminds me of do you remember
Speaker 2: when also in Spain, there was that older woman that no,
Speaker 2: not toes, but I love anytime Jesus is on toes.
Speaker 2: There was that woman that took that Gesus is painting
Speaker 2: that like old Fresco, and she like read that's maybe
Speaker 2: the funniest news story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty incredible, you know.
Speaker 2: It's like, ironically also Spanish that I think is maybe
Speaker 2: the second funniest news story of all time. The second
Speaker 2: funniest new story is Hilaria Baldwin. Like both of those,
Speaker 2: ye are like the funniest.
Speaker 1: It's Hilario.
Speaker 2: Now look at this like they start having full families.
Speaker 2: The floor, that's the floor, damn.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can say so it does seem to me,
Speaker 1: just like looking at these in context with each other,
Speaker 1: it does seem like Saturday afternoon family fun time, you know,
Speaker 1: arts and craps, exactly, like let's get out the charcoals.
Speaker 2: It really does seem like that vine charcoal. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: They they were having a good Maybe they went down
Speaker 2: to Joeanne Fabrics. They bought some Michaels. But okay, So
Speaker 2: there was a professor who came from Madrid and he's
Speaker 2: doing some research and he finds that there was a
Speaker 2: seventeenth century governor of Madrid who was born in this
Speaker 2: town bel Mez, and I actually think it's bell Mes
Speaker 2: And this old seventeenth century governor murdered five members of
Speaker 2: his family in and around this house. So could it
Speaker 2: be that these are the ghosts? That was one theory.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was also allegedly discovered that the house was built
Speaker 2: over an old cemetery and the floor was dug up
Speaker 2: and they found several human skeletons and some of them
Speaker 2: were as old as the thirteenth century. Whoa. And reportedly
Speaker 2: some of them didn't have heads. Whoa. So maybe their
Speaker 2: heads were showing up on the kitchen floor.
Speaker 1: Yikes.
Speaker 2: So you know, they dug all that up, they replaced
Speaker 2: the floor, they bury the bodies in a nearby Catholic cemetery,
Speaker 2: and in April of nineteen seventy two, once again the
Speaker 2: Flora's serving face. So they do all these investigations, like
Speaker 2: these people are really in there trying to figure this
Speaker 2: thing out, and if the family's conning, they're like, this
Speaker 2: is great. Like they're in the other room just counting
Speaker 2: their points, which I don't know if they were charging
Speaker 2: an admission fee at this point. But they actually captured
Speaker 2: one of these investigations. They captured some voices. They did
Speaker 2: EVP electronic voice phenomena recording, and this is actually a
Speaker 2: real recording of some of the they believe faces speaking.
Speaker 2: Are you ready for this?
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, okay, that sounds like a scream? Yeah, So
Speaker 4: who recorded that one of these investigators depends an actual
Speaker 4: like investigator. But I would also say, and again at
Speaker 4: the beginning of this, I said, I believe these things.
Speaker 4: You know, there's also you know, human error, and an
Speaker 4: investigator would have an impetus to prove it to be true,
Speaker 4: because then that keeps their business afloat, you know, like
Speaker 4: if you're an investigator who never proves anything happening unless
Speaker 4: that's your chosen path, of like, I'm going to disprove
Speaker 4: all of this.
Speaker 2: That's one way to look at it. But I think
Speaker 2: also paranormal investigators, I think, in my opinion, what they're
Speaker 2: supposed to do is find all the logical explanations for
Speaker 2: why this isn't paranormal, and when you can't find it.
Speaker 1: Then there you go.
Speaker 2: Then there is that. Yeah, so it's one way to
Speaker 2: look at it, but I don't know that right there.
Speaker 1: That's pretty creepy.
Speaker 2: It's pretty creepy. But okay, So another experiment that they do,
Speaker 2: the professor puts foil on the floor. He's trying to
Speaker 2: avoid any funny business from this family and their little
Speaker 2: arts and crafts night because at this point people are
Speaker 2: really suspecting that it's the family. And he actually paid
Speaker 2: to have a new kitchen made for them so that
Speaker 2: he could study this kitchen. And I guess, so this
Speaker 2: is what I'm reading online. Never take facts from me,
Speaker 2: but this is what I read. Someone else wrote this
Speaker 2: online a couple of places. And so they make this
Speaker 2: new kitchen. I guess what happens in the new kitchen, honey?
Speaker 2: Call it call it just for laps, honey, because there's
Speaker 2: new faces. So a writer and paranormal investigator named Jose
Speaker 2: Martinez Romero shows up and he starts studying it, and
Speaker 2: he notices that the lady of the house, Maria, is
Speaker 2: if she's not feeling well, then the faces are, and
Speaker 2: so he has this theory that when she dies, maybe
Speaker 2: the faces will disappear, like it's connected to her emotions.
Speaker 2: Because I should also note that she was a self
Speaker 2: proclaimed psychic.
Speaker 1: Oh of course, yeah.
Speaker 2: So you know there are there were theories in the
Speaker 2: paranormal sense that maybe what she was doing is called thoughtography,
Speaker 2: which is when you think of something and then it
Speaker 2: gets burned into a surface.
Speaker 1: You know that thing that that people do, that thought
Speaker 1: over there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you have a thought and then all
Speaker 2: of a sudden it just burns into the wall.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sometimes I think it jokes and then it just
Speaker 1: burns into my wall, burns there goes my deposit exactly.
Speaker 1: So it needs a set list when you can just
Speaker 1: burn it into.
Speaker 2: The Yeah, I don't know, I think also knowing that
Speaker 2: she's a psychic kind of she says she's a psychic.
Speaker 2: Now I don't know her abilities. Of course, I don't
Speaker 2: know what she was doing with that, but it leads
Speaker 2: you to believe that she's somebody that believes in this stuff,
Speaker 2: so that could make you skeptical.
Speaker 1: Totally, I mean, And then for me, the other possibility
Speaker 1: is finding out that there was you know, Okay, so
Speaker 1: let's say I totally believe this, she's a conduit for
Speaker 1: this information, and for these people conduit confident do it?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. I mean, to me, the
Speaker 1: point of it is for people to realize that these
Speaker 1: people had been probably murdered, you know, like executed if
Speaker 1: they don't have heads.
Speaker 2: But then they dig up the bike, I know, and
Speaker 2: then they.
Speaker 1: Put them in a Catholic As soon as you're like,
Speaker 1: then they put them in a Catholic cemetery, I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's even worse because it was probably Catholics that beheaded
Speaker 1: them in the beginning to begin with. Oh, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, just thinking globally about history, it would
Speaker 1: have been Catholics in Spain doing that in the thirteenth century.
Speaker 1: So I'm just like, yeah, this makes sense to me
Speaker 1: that it's probably real in some way because you found
Speaker 1: something out, you know. Like, to me, paranormal activity is
Speaker 1: literally just trying to say, hey, you know, like something
Speaker 1: is uh like look at this, you know, like of
Speaker 1: like having that wee like, ooh, this is something is
Speaker 1: chilling in here. This is a weird space. And then
Speaker 1: you find out, oh, someone was killed in here. To me,
Speaker 1: the purpose of that chill was to give that human
Speaker 1: being and that person's existence the dignity that it deserved,
Speaker 1: which is remembering them, right. You know.
Speaker 2: I was thinking recently, like, Okay, I know that, like
Speaker 2: common belief, the kind thing to do is to like
Speaker 2: honor somebody's grave. You don't like step on someone's grave
Speaker 2: or build a house on someone's grave. But I also,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I personally feel like there's a spirit
Speaker 2: and there's a body, and they're different and to me,
Speaker 2: like my bones like I don't care. Oh yeah, I'll
Speaker 2: be under your kitchen me too.
Speaker 1: I totally agree, because a there's just too many human
Speaker 1: beings on the planet to not now bones everywhere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's less about it's less about the like sacrilege
Speaker 1: of the body and more about the remembrance of the life,
Speaker 1: even if you don't know their name or all those things,
Speaker 1: but just knowing, oh there were people here who were
Speaker 1: beheaded like that, uh, just like acknowledging that that happened,
Speaker 1: even to me, is why that would happen to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: what was up with that? And maybe look into that
Speaker 1: as opposed to like, oh, we just need to put
Speaker 1: these in a nicer place. To me, that's what you know.
Speaker 1: It's like, it's not about recycling, it's about like, wait,
Speaker 1: why why were these people missing their heads? Like That's
Speaker 1: where I would go instead of going towards the drawings continually,
Speaker 1: I would be like, wait, this is this is the
Speaker 1: story that I'm supposed to know?
Speaker 2: Probably, God you it would have been a really great
Speaker 2: reporter and seventy one in Spain like that would have
Speaker 2: been such a great story. Back. I know a lot
Speaker 2: of press, especially in Spain, has covered this, so I
Speaker 2: wonder if people have gone that angle with it. But
Speaker 2: I love that there was an investigation in that was
Speaker 2: on German TV where they sealed off the room with
Speaker 2: wax so that nobody could get into the room, and
Speaker 2: they photographed all the faces and then they covered the
Speaker 2: faces and sealed the covering over the faces, and they
Speaker 2: had the town notary present. Apparently they're trying to do
Speaker 2: whatever they can to make sure this family's not in
Speaker 2: there while the family is like with their little paint brushes,
Speaker 2: dying to get in there. And they came back three
Speaker 2: months later. The faces had now moved along the floor
Speaker 2: and changed their expressions.
Speaker 1: And none of the seals had been broken or anything
Speaker 1: apparently not yeah.
Speaker 2: Wild, which I love it.
Speaker 1: The faces they are just like they're like, Okay, keep trying, bitch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nice try. So there's a lot of Some of
Speaker 2: the reasons why people think that it's a hoax is
Speaker 2: that the slabs were taken to the Institute of Ceramics
Speaker 2: and Glass Oh wow, and uh, they did not find
Speaker 2: that there were any paint, any paint or dyes, so
Speaker 2: they don't think it was that. But a lot of
Speaker 2: people think that it was chemicals of some sort, and
Speaker 2: some studies suggest that they could even see the size
Speaker 2: of brush hairs that were used to paint with these chemicals.
Speaker 2: That's what That's what some of the studies say. A
Speaker 2: lot of people believe that it was the woman's son
Speaker 2: who she had in the house. I believe maybe it
Speaker 2: was him playing a joke, because that's I always say
Speaker 2: with hoaxes, like it starts out fun and then the
Speaker 2: whole neighborhood starts coming and then the press starts coming,
Speaker 2: and then what do you do?
Speaker 1: Then you have to keep it up. You have to
Speaker 1: keep it You really have to keep it up. And
Speaker 1: then we find thirteen headless bodies under the thing, and
Speaker 1: you're like, well, shit, I didn't know this. Yeah, you're like,
Speaker 1: this is perfect, this is exactly in a line with
Speaker 1: what I was thinking.
Speaker 2: Or did they somehow know that the bodies were under
Speaker 2: there the whole time?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I don't know. So then the woman Maria died in
Speaker 2: two thousand and four, and you know, the theory from
Speaker 2: that one guy was that maybe the faces would stop,
Speaker 2: but apparently they still.
Speaker 1: These faces are still going in this house.
Speaker 2: As far as I can tell, they are still telling
Speaker 2: you just.
Speaker 1: Do the research on the bodies, like, let's get this
Speaker 1: over with.
Speaker 2: Let's get it over with. But I think it's really
Speaker 2: actually it's a good thing for tourism in that sure
Speaker 2: small little area.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I just want to see Maria showing up, like
Speaker 2: giving the middle fingers.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I want her to be on the floor being like,
Speaker 2: y'all you all thought the floor bitch. Yeah. So that's
Speaker 2: the story of the bell Mez faces.
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that story with me.
Speaker 2: What do you think going back to that voice, what
Speaker 2: do you think or the sounds it sounded like people
Speaker 2: underground screaming. Yeah it did.
Speaker 1: I mean it had this the feeling, the distinct feeling
Speaker 1: of like wind, you know, and then howling, which is
Speaker 1: very bizarre.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that was like, I don't know
Speaker 2: where it was recorded. It was kind of hard to
Speaker 2: I don't speak great Spanish, so it was kind of
Speaker 2: hard to find.
Speaker 1: But I mean it was definitely creepy, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like, how do you make that sound?
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just the sun in the other room.
Speaker 2: Oh shit. But because like there's a part where wait
Speaker 2: a second, there's a part where at first you don't
Speaker 2: hear anything and then it's like whistling right there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Can I play you some ghost voices? Yes, Okay, it's
Speaker 2: time for EVP or ev please perfect. EVP is electronic
Speaker 2: voice phenomena. It's when they believe ghosts have been captured,
Speaker 2: like what we heard. We heard two different recordings of
Speaker 2: ghosts captured allegedly. So I go to YouTube dot com,
Speaker 2: I type in EVP, same thing, say, drive up to
Speaker 2: YouTube honestly, same thing I do on EP. Yeah, and uh,
Speaker 2: and I just find random EVPs that people have posted
Speaker 2: that they believe they've captured of a ghost speaking. And
Speaker 2: so I'm gonna play you too, and I want you
Speaker 2: to tell me what you hear. No, I'll give you
Speaker 2: some options, the correct answer being what this ghost hunter
Speaker 2: believes they've comet. Okay, Okay, so.
Speaker 1: You're gonna give me like a multiple choice.
Speaker 2: Sure or no? Yeah, yeah, but first let's hear what
Speaker 2: you think this is saying. So this first one is
Speaker 2: from Robert Kirk hyphen Hats, and it's at the Mansfield Reformatory.
Speaker 1: Just got to say before you get into it. So far,
Speaker 1: lots of names on all these folks, a minimum of
Speaker 1: three names for everybody.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's very good in the paranormal. Just you have
Speaker 2: to have three names. Noticing that, Yeah, which you know,
Speaker 2: I recently changed my name and I could not think
Speaker 2: of a good middle name. And now I'm like, if
Speaker 2: I want to be taken seriously in the paranormal, yeah,
Speaker 2: I might have to go through that process again. Okay,
Speaker 2: So Robin Kurtz hyphen Robin Kirk hyphen Hats at the
Speaker 2: Mansfield Reformatory, which is in.
Speaker 1: Your words, Yeah, I know exactly where that is. Have
Speaker 1: you ever been I've been by it. I've never gone
Speaker 1: into it.
Speaker 2: You gotta go in one of these days and start recording.
Speaker 1: That's where they shut the redemption.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's very haunted. The paranormal TV shows love it,
Speaker 2: and so does Robin Kurt hyphen Hotts. All right, what
Speaker 2: is this ghost saying? Did you hear it?
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: Now there is people stepping or hammering something.
Speaker 1: But okay, oh wow, I really heard at that time
Speaker 1: something like I don't want to go or something like that.
Speaker 2: Totally wait, I can't.
Speaker 1: There's a step right on the last part. I know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't want to something.
Speaker 2: I don't want to something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that's all, Like, that's all I can get.
Speaker 2: Wow, what is it? A? Iowascous? B? I don't want
Speaker 2: to go? We see final Warning or D fine, I'll
Speaker 2: watch a stupid show. I'm gonna go with B because
Speaker 2: that's what it sounded like to me. I hear, fine,
Speaker 2: I'll watch your stupid show. I literally hear that. Yes,
Speaker 2: it is B. I don't want to go. Yes, that
Speaker 2: was pretty good. You're good at this. You might have
Speaker 2: a future in this if you if you want to,
Speaker 2: you know do three native. Okay, we're going to figure
Speaker 2: out how to do this one. This next one. This
Speaker 2: next one is from Gerald Reynolds. Just two names, so
Speaker 2: we'll figure out how good this e VP will be.
Speaker 2: It's in Rancho Camulos, which is in Peru, California, in
Speaker 2: Ventura County. Apparently it's a real haunted place. And what
Speaker 2: is this ghost saying?
Speaker 1: I gotta get close to it? It's like two and
Speaker 1: a half or that or something like that. Two and
Speaker 1: a half of it.
Speaker 2: Two and a half of that. That sounds like a
Speaker 2: Mary Kay n Ashley movie or something. Yeah, two and
Speaker 2: a half of that, two.
Speaker 1: And a half of that or an episode of Sex
Speaker 1: and the City.
Speaker 2: Totally, they did not think it was two and a
Speaker 2: half of that?
Speaker 1: Okay, is it a ge?
Speaker 2: What happened? M B? Have you seen my husband? C
Speaker 2: take your hat off? Captain? Or d tickle tickle tickle?
Speaker 1: What was a again?
Speaker 2: Gee? What happened?
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with ag what happened? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Totally yeah, g what happened?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're good at this. Yeah. They believe
Speaker 2: it was g what happened?
Speaker 1: What happened? Like it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 1: Man, those recordings it's pretty crapin.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, would you go paranlem investigating for one of those?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Really, because I would want to see I would
Speaker 1: want to be there for the recording to be because
Speaker 1: it's just like it sounds so it sounds so fake.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not saying it's fake, right, I'm saying
Speaker 1: it sounds like somebody is going to get it.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, yeah, what the hell. Well, I've recorded
Speaker 2: things like this before, and the thing is, most of
Speaker 2: the time you don't hear it.
Speaker 1: In the Yeah, that's what I mean. I would want
Speaker 1: to go so I'd be like, I did not hear
Speaker 1: that exact where did that come from? You know what?
Speaker 2: I mean to like, my creepiest one that I believe
Speaker 2: is one hundred percent real because I was there. I
Speaker 2: was the only one there. I was in a bathroom.
Speaker 2: I've played it on the show before, but I'll just
Speaker 2: tell you I was in the bathroom at this very
Speaker 2: haunted former hospital turned hotel. What could go wrong? Would
Speaker 2: you do that in the middle of nowhere in Arizona,
Speaker 2: up in the mountains and you hear a voice say
Speaker 2: I pooped here you hear it?
Speaker 1: That's my kind of a ghosts, you know, totally. It's
Speaker 1: just that's that's how I when I move on to
Speaker 1: the next plane, I really want to spend a little
Speaker 1: time going I pooped.
Speaker 2: Her, totally do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can take your hat off, Captain.
Speaker 2: You can have a lot of fun with that, and
Speaker 2: I appreciate a ghost that is having fun. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to fire off some paranormal phenomena and
Speaker 2: I want to hear what you have to say. How
Speaker 2: do you feel about and now I'm so and now
Speaker 2: I'm noticing that I asked it that way. How do
Speaker 2: you feel about?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Sure, demons?
Speaker 1: Can you tell me more about what you mean?
Speaker 2: What are your demons?
Speaker 1: I mean, I've definitely experienced them. I don't think they're
Speaker 1: in external power.
Speaker 2: Though, okay, so well they're within you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My experience of demons is that it is uh. I
Speaker 1: think that demons are a human construct. To explain.
Speaker 2: Are more.
Speaker 1: Hmm. Evil is too hard of a word, you know,
Speaker 1: because I don't mean like evil, but like, you know,
Speaker 1: tendencies towards destructive things as opposed to creative things, you know,
Speaker 1: the negative as opposed to the positive. Like I feel
Speaker 1: as though humans created them as metaphors, ah to explain that, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, and I feel it's a powerful and accurate
Speaker 1: metaphor because I've had that feeling of like I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm overwhelmed by this super negative or bad or
Speaker 1: evil or destructive power totally, like I've literally had the
Speaker 1: experience of of you know, like the devil and the
Speaker 1: angel on your shoulder. Like I always thought that was
Speaker 1: just like a cartoon thing, and then I had that
Speaker 1: in a moment once and I was like, Oh, that's
Speaker 1: where that came from. Is like literally feeling like torn
Speaker 1: between these two choices essentially.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, so, but not it's not something that's attached
Speaker 2: to like a manifestation, a physical manifestation or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Like exorcism or like a like a possession by or
Speaker 1: something like that. I mean, I think I think it
Speaker 1: fits in alignment with what I'm talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: is that like I think exorcisms were for people who
Speaker 1: were probably experiencing like severe psychic breaks or you know,
Speaker 1: women who were being treated you know, like being told
Speaker 1: that they were crazy or what. You know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like totally it all like I think it's real, but
Speaker 1: not in the way it's being presented to us, if
Speaker 1: that makes sense historically speaking, totally so yes, but also
Speaker 1: not not in the way that there's like a pitchfork
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, It's more of a feeling.
Speaker 2: But those are cute, Like I love the look of.
Speaker 1: Like great style. Like one time, I remember, one of
Speaker 1: the only times I ever messed around with makeup, I
Speaker 1: painted my entire face with my mom's like lipstick samples
Speaker 1: that she got from Red Oh. Yeah, I was like,
Speaker 1: I am the devil. It's a classic style.
Speaker 2: You should shut up to Catholic school like that. I know
Speaker 2: with pants it would have turned me right around. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 2: I totally know what you mean because I have felt
Speaker 2: that feeling too, of like the demons, you know, because
Speaker 2: I'm addict. You know. It's like I have I feel
Speaker 2: that same thing, like I feel the addiction is demons
Speaker 2: crawling in I think of crawling. That's literally what I
Speaker 2: think of is.
Speaker 1: Back in totally. What do you think of.
Speaker 2: Time travel? Do you think it's real? Do you think
Speaker 2: it's possible.
Speaker 1: I think it's totally possible.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean UFOs could, Yeah, baby.
Speaker 1: I here's my interpretation of time travel. I feel if
Speaker 1: I feel as though I have time traveled, but not
Speaker 1: in the Martin even fly gets into a DeLorean and
Speaker 1: goes to the same time. I wish it was like that,
Speaker 1: you know, and I do think that that's possible, although
Speaker 1: I'm not smart enough to understand all the quantum physics
Speaker 1: of the whole thing, but I would rather I feel
Speaker 1: as I have time traveled on like an emotional level
Speaker 1: of like having an experience, like having an experience early
Speaker 1: in my life that was like say, traumatic or negative
Speaker 1: or whatever, and then later on in my life, sort
Speaker 1: of entering into another experience that feels very similar and
Speaker 1: reminiscent of that and doing it differently feels to me
Speaker 1: like time travel because that person that experienced that is
Speaker 1: traveling with me, and they're from the past and I'm
Speaker 1: from the future. And if they're traveling with me currently
Speaker 1: in the present, then I am also experiencing that past
Speaker 1: experience at the same time on an emotional level, and
Speaker 1: so that's how I consider time travel. I also like
Speaker 1: the one time was like making out with somebody while
Speaker 1: this music from my life before was happening at the
Speaker 1: same time, and it felt like, wait, am I now?
Speaker 1: Or am I then? You know, it's like this very
Speaker 1: transcendent experience, you know.
Speaker 2: So it's like emotional time travel. Oh I never think
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's the way I experience time travel. It's like
Speaker 1: second chances or opportunities to cause it's not the same experience,
Speaker 1: but to me, it feels as though it is. So
Speaker 1: it's specific to me. So A I get to decide
Speaker 1: whether it's time travel or not, you know, like it's
Speaker 1: not up to somebody else.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: But b I'm like, if I'm recalling that experience, there's
Speaker 1: part of me that is living it again, right, so
Speaker 1: traveling with me? You know?
Speaker 2: So is deja vus somewhere in this?
Speaker 1: I mean I think so? But deja vu specifically is
Speaker 1: that's about having a Is that about having a dream
Speaker 1: and then something happens from the dream.
Speaker 2: Or it's just like a like you're in a moment
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, yeah, I feel like I've done
Speaker 2: this before.
Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah, I think so, because I have that feeling
Speaker 1: all the time, really like whoa like very specifically, like
Speaker 1: someone's saying something to me. It's not it's never anything
Speaker 1: like big, you know, it's always like somebody sitting over
Speaker 1: there looking over at me, having a drink of water
Speaker 1: and then saying something and I'm like, this has totally
Speaker 1: happened before, yeah, or I dreamt it and I was
Speaker 1: told that it was going to happen for some reason,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think that reason is usually be
Speaker 1: present in your life, you know, pay attention to the
Speaker 1: things that are happening around you, because even something is
Speaker 1: like mundane, as somebody is saying, like what time are
Speaker 1: you going to the show? Is like that person cares
Speaker 1: about you, you know what I mean, So like it's
Speaker 1: like very small but important, you know.
Speaker 2: I started thinking a lot about Djevou a few years ago,
Speaker 2: and I started to feel this is my personal belief
Speaker 2: is like it is kind of all mapped out, like
Speaker 2: we're all going someplace on purpose, and then the deja
Speaker 2: vous is like confirmation you're, yeah, that you're supposed to
Speaker 2: be there. Yeah, I dig that.
Speaker 1: I don't know though, I dig that. I think that's
Speaker 1: it's similar to what I'm like, being present is confirmation
Speaker 1: that you're exactly where you need to be.
Speaker 2: I also.
Speaker 1: Believe in reincarnation. I think some of that stuff because
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, so we have science, right, and science
Speaker 1: is like matter is neither created nor destroyed. So how
Speaker 1: could we not how could we not be you know,
Speaker 1: reinstituted and recycled in things.
Speaker 2: Okay, So so our ghosts maybe that matter, not having
Speaker 2: a place to go or that's where it goes.
Speaker 1: Well, that's not matter, it's energy, you know. So it's
Speaker 1: like the we only have so many like bodies, you know.
Speaker 1: But I think so, And I think sometimes the ghosts
Speaker 1: are spirits that are done and they're just hanging out.
Speaker 1: They don't. I don't think that when our spirits are done,
Speaker 1: you know, because I do think there's a point where
Speaker 1: we have completed what we're supposed to do. Because I
Speaker 1: think that our purpose is longer than just simply the
Speaker 1: lives that were you and I are currently living right now.
Speaker 1: I think we have a more long term, you know,
Speaker 1: purpose that takes more than one, you know, eighty year
Speaker 1: life cycle to complete.
Speaker 2: So do you have any thoughts or idea of where
Speaker 2: your spiritual being has been before?
Speaker 1: Well, I was told I mean I haven't gone to
Speaker 1: a psychic, but I did get a couple like astrological readings,
Speaker 1: you know, based on my chart and stuff, and then
Speaker 1: my partner and I got one together, and I was
Speaker 1: told in the in the solo one and then in
Speaker 1: the partner one, that I'd been here multiple times and
Speaker 1: one of the previous incarnations was like a monk or
Speaker 1: some sort of religious thing, which tracks if I'm now
Speaker 1: a stand up comedian very similar purposes, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean a lot. There's a lot of comedians that
Speaker 2: people are like they're a profit.
Speaker 1: Uh huh, or just simply to me. For me, it's
Speaker 1: like just simply like spreading a message, taking a message
Speaker 1: out to people and offering that. You know, It's like I.
Speaker 2: Can see that I haven't done it. I haven't done
Speaker 2: any kind of past life regression or anything.
Speaker 1: But I didn't regress. But she just told told me
Speaker 1: like and that my partner and I had been together
Speaker 1: multiple times across those things, which is cool.
Speaker 2: That's what a lot of will tell you, is that
Speaker 2: that we live past lives, and like the characters in
Speaker 2: this life are also in that life, but they're also
Speaker 2: different characters.
Speaker 1: Right, Like my mom and my dad and I have
Speaker 1: all been on this thing together, but they weren't my
Speaker 1: mom and my dad the last time. You know. It's
Speaker 1: like it's kind of it's cool to think about it
Speaker 1: that way, you know, cause then it for me. It
Speaker 1: allows for more perspective on what this is, and I
Speaker 1: can take a lot of the power out, you know,
Speaker 1: the power dynamic that is sort of imbibed in all
Speaker 1: these relationships under capitalism specifically, and you know where we
Speaker 1: are right now, like, oh, the nuclear family is the
Speaker 1: only thing, and if it's not coming from there, then
Speaker 1: something's wrong with you. You know, Like if I just
Speaker 1: look at it as like, oh, we're three beings that
Speaker 1: have just sort of been hanging out with each other
Speaker 1: for millennia, right and this is the this is the
Speaker 1: dynamic that we're in right now. What needs to be different?
Speaker 1: You know? I and I think I just need to
Speaker 1: see them as people, you know, as opposed to like
Speaker 1: if we were just people together we owned a business
Speaker 1: or something, you know, we were like merchants together and
Speaker 1: we couldn't get along. And now I'm their kid. Yeah exactly,
Speaker 1: Maybe I just need to get along with them.
Speaker 2: So when you think about this, does it take away
Speaker 2: your fear of dying? Mm hm, me too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't really have a fear of dying. I
Speaker 1: used to, but I'm not. I'm no longer like afraid
Speaker 1: of it. It's actually seems cool but that's like considering
Speaker 1: it as realizing that it's not like the end, you know,
Speaker 1: it's only the end of this whatever this is, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people consider that to
Speaker 1: be very morbid, but I think it's the opposite, you know,
Speaker 1: where I'm just like cool, I'm gonna make the best
Speaker 1: of this while I'm here. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's also like when you're in chow biz, like you
Speaker 2: get a nice gig for a minute, and then that ends.
Speaker 1: It definitely does, and then you find another. Yeah, yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: Like has that has Has that changed your perspective on dying?
Speaker 2: I mean, you work at it that way like reincar,
Speaker 2: Like people are reinventing their careers or they're doing different
Speaker 2: Oh now I'm going to do a podcast. Now I'm
Speaker 2: going to be on a sitcom like whatever. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: then that ends, yep inevitably because sometimes you do it
Speaker 2: with the same people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I was always a big fan of
Speaker 1: Six Feet Under and terrified of dying. But something that
Speaker 1: I've always thought about from that show is and it's
Speaker 1: an episode title, but somebody says it everything everywhere ends
Speaker 1: great inescapable? Why Like, yeah, why fight that? And that
Speaker 1: applies to everything, like you're saying, with jobs and stuff,
Speaker 1: and it takes a lot of the power out of
Speaker 1: the job too. You're just like, oh, this is what
Speaker 1: I'm doing right now. You know we're not doing right now,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Okay, last one? Yeah, Bigfoot?
Speaker 1: Do I believe in Bigfoot?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what are my thoughts? I mean, I think it's
Speaker 1: cool that I always appreciate anything that creates community, and
Speaker 1: I think that Bigfoot is like a stellar example of
Speaker 1: like a community. You know, people looking for something.
Speaker 2: Cult later no, because you never.
Speaker 1: A cult leader, because I think you have to be
Speaker 1: able to interface with that leader, you know. And I
Speaker 1: definitely worst cult leader ever or best for that reason
Speaker 1: because you never get to talk to them. No robes,
Speaker 1: no nothing, no weird jewelry. I don't think that it's real.
Speaker 1: I think it's a person, you know, dressed up, okay,
Speaker 1: because there's just like no other There's never been any
Speaker 1: other thing like that. So to me, I'm like, it
Speaker 1: seems like some people having some fun.
Speaker 2: You know. It's so funny. On my Patregon, I've been
Speaker 2: doing every single state I've been one at a time
Speaker 2: in our our lovely country. I've been going through each
Speaker 2: state and doing paranormal like just because I just want
Speaker 2: to like dig deeper and learn about other of cours.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't I wouldn't go to Alabama myself, but every
Speaker 2: single state I'm at. I just started doing this a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago. So I'm at Georgia. They all have.
Speaker 1: Foots like their own, their own specific Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's every state I've found so far.
Speaker 1: House and then you find additional things too, right or
Speaker 1: just do you stop at bigfoot?
Speaker 2: I mean it fascinates me that is it one dude
Speaker 2: or person or whatever that's just doing the road, you know,
Speaker 2: touring around the country or is.
Speaker 1: It the concept? Uh? That to me, is it the
Speaker 1: concept being released into the ether into the experience and
Speaker 1: then confirmation bias seeing something and making it that bigfoot?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the one video and then people are
Speaker 1: seeing because like, you know, what you seek you will find,
Speaker 1: so sure you're gonna if you're looking for bigfoot, you're
Speaker 1: gonna find them.
Speaker 2: Now, there's a thing within the paranormal that I'm obsessed with.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: There's a couple of different words for it, but one
Speaker 2: of them is agrigore, which is basically, if enough people
Speaker 2: think something it's true, they basically think it into existence,
Speaker 2: like a lot of urban legend ye type.
Speaker 1: Things like the moth Man and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that could be a lot of times things that
Speaker 2: don't have that typical like say ghost storyline of like wait,
Speaker 2: nobody died here, but why do we all keep seeing this? Y?
Speaker 2: This particular goes And there have been experiments where people
Speaker 2: write out a biography of a fake person and then
Speaker 2: they try to contact and they keep doing it repeatedly
Speaker 2: until they start making contact with this like fake thing.
Speaker 2: And so a lot of people think that Bigfoot is
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not like a huge like an animal
Speaker 2: or mammal. It's more so this being. Like that's why
Speaker 2: you can't catch it.
Speaker 1: Like a specter or like a real actual being that
Speaker 1: has come into being, because it has been.
Speaker 2: To me it's magical, ye, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: I mean, I also this is the one thing that
Speaker 1: I've been like no into it just to say, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm also totally open to it the possibility, but it
Speaker 1: just seems it totally just seems like a person dressed
Speaker 1: up and then it just like caught fire with people
Speaker 1: like lolackness or something.
Speaker 2: Like that that way, and now it's I don't know.
Speaker 1: But that concept is really interesting that it then comes
Speaker 1: into being because so many people believe in it.
Speaker 2: When the secret came out. Sure, I still use a
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. I like that think things into existence.
Speaker 2: I've never seen it with a hairy monster. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how much I believe like
Speaker 1: thinking a being into existence, but I definitely believe that
Speaker 1: if you're thinking towards something, it can happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I've had that happen. Yeah, very small things, right,
Speaker 1: I think, like a bigfoot or whatever. Like literally in October,
Speaker 1: I sent my manager an email that was like, hey, look,
Speaker 1: this is not out of desperation, but I need a job,
Speaker 1: Like I need a job. And then I literally got
Speaker 1: an email like three hours later that was like, hey,
Speaker 1: do you are you interested in this? And those two things,
Speaker 1: like that email and the second email were not connected.
Speaker 1: It's not like my manager was like, oh, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll do it right and then like called around. You know.
Speaker 1: It was really just like, hey, let's I would really
Speaker 1: love to focus towards finding something, you know. It was
Speaker 1: like that kind of a thing, and then it came
Speaker 1: it came forth totally. So it's it's not like I
Speaker 1: did that, but in being willing to say what I
Speaker 1: want and what I would like to do, I think
Speaker 1: that the universe is happy to provide. Usually doesn't happen
Speaker 1: that quickly.
Speaker 2: I love to look at things like that, and I'm
Speaker 2: glad that that to hear that you do too, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: tell the world what you want, Yeah, then it'll give
Speaker 2: it to you.
Speaker 1: That's right. I think sometimes it can just be within yourself,
Speaker 1: but I do think it's very powerful if you're willing
Speaker 1: to be because to me, that is like vulnerability, you know,
Speaker 1: being willing to say like, hey, I want this, you know,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't always work out exactly the way I
Speaker 1: want it to, but it usually works out, you know.
Speaker 1: And then my job is to not be like critical
Speaker 1: of it, to not be like, yeah, but I'm not
Speaker 1: like that though. It's to go like, okay, I'll give
Speaker 1: it a shot because what you were thinking, it rarely is.
Speaker 1: But then that job ended up being leading to a
Speaker 1: second part of a job that was like one of
Speaker 1: my favorite experiences, Like I could it's like the best
Speaker 1: job I've ever had, and I've had a lot of
Speaker 1: good jobs, you know, so it was totally awesome. And
Speaker 1: there's there's definitely a me that would have said I
Speaker 1: need a job. That job came in and I would
Speaker 1: have been like, no, thanks, you know, like there's a
Speaker 1: me that would have done that, but like grateful to
Speaker 1: be the meat that's like, sure, I'll give it a shot.
Speaker 1: See what this is?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, also, I think a lot of that is
Speaker 2: like intuition and just being trusting your gut, like maybe
Speaker 2: maybe I should take this. You never know what it
Speaker 2: could lead to. I mean, I've been a situations like
Speaker 2: that where I'm like I don't want to, but for
Speaker 2: some reason, I feel like I have to do this,
Speaker 2: and then I do and then I meet someone. You know.
Speaker 1: That's literally what I was gonna say, because it's also
Speaker 1: for me. It's it's letting go of even the idea
Speaker 1: of what I think leading to something else looks like,
Speaker 1: because it used to be like, well, I don't know
Speaker 1: what other job it's going to lead to, and it's
Speaker 1: like letting go of the fact that like it might
Speaker 1: not be a job, you know, like it might lead
Speaker 1: to meeting somebody that's just like great, a great person
Speaker 1: to know, or like having a really great conversation in
Speaker 1: a room where you feel like you showed up for
Speaker 1: that confidently and it didn't work and you're fine, you know, like,
Speaker 1: which is all experiences that I had that I would
Speaker 1: I mean I maybe would have had otherwise, but I'm
Speaker 1: grateful that I had them all collected in one place,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had I've done so many like gigs and
Speaker 2: so many things over the years, and the worst one
Speaker 2: I've ever done. First of all, I got a great
Speaker 2: story out of it because it was that bad. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I also met such a great person that is
Speaker 2: still a good friend and has been just a wonderful
Speaker 2: person to know. But I didn't want to do that shit, sure,
Speaker 2: yeah at all, and I hated it. But we get a.
Speaker 1: Great story and a great person out of it, yeah,
Speaker 1: which is very positive.
Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to do this today. We did it
Speaker 2: and it was great.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've had a great time.
Speaker 2: Thanks for doing that.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Ross.
Speaker 2: So let's do a podcast goodbye. Yeah, tell us where
Speaker 2: you can where we can find you?
Speaker 1: Oh sure? Oh that stuff mostly on the internet, you know,
Speaker 1: at riv Butcher on Twitter and Instagram. A lot of
Speaker 1: people are calling me RIV because of that, which I
Speaker 1: don't hate, but just want to offer that I'm only
Speaker 1: RIV Butcher because River Butcher was already taken in the
Speaker 1: years some random kids on everything.
Speaker 2: Where does that?
Speaker 1: I have no idea.
Speaker 2: It makes me so mad when stuff like that happened.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: I asked people too, And here's here's like a similar
Speaker 1: story to what we were talking about before. I was
Speaker 1: going by RB for a little while before I was
Speaker 1: willing to take the leap of fully changing my name,
Speaker 1: and there's a guy on Instagram and Twitter who had
Speaker 1: RB Butcher as both, and so I wrote out messages
Speaker 1: to this person and asked. I was like, I understand
Speaker 1: that this is like a big ask, so don't please
Speaker 1: don't think I just am like gonna take this thing
Speaker 1: from you, but you know, I would really appreciate your
Speaker 1: consideration if you'd be willing to allow me to use this,
Speaker 1: you know, happy to you know, pay you whatever. And didn't.
Speaker 1: He didn't believe I was a real person, which didn't
Speaker 1: make sense because I'm verified on both of the things.
Speaker 1: He was like, can you send me something from here
Speaker 1: like this email, you know whatever. So I did that
Speaker 1: and then he was like, yeah, no, I don't want
Speaker 1: to do that because I'm known for the and like
Speaker 1: you know, the follower counts are very different. But here's
Speaker 1: what I liked about. I was upset about it, and
Speaker 1: then I realized, Oh, this guy is giving me such
Speaker 1: a gift, which is change your name. Ah, that was
Speaker 1: the gift. Was like, yeah, don't know, like no little bits,
Speaker 1: no one tiny little step, like go do the whole thing.
Speaker 1: You listen to that message and the riff thing is
Speaker 1: like it's not perfect, so great I get to just
Speaker 1: like have not exactly what I want, but live my life.
Speaker 2: Great.
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 2: Every time that I have tried to do that scenario,
Speaker 2: I'm always convinced that it's someone that died because I
Speaker 2: never can get in touch with them. Yeah, they haven't
Speaker 2: posted in ten years.
Speaker 1: That's the other thing too, Like all the people that
Speaker 1: I asked hadn't posted in forever, like had minimal posts
Speaker 1: and things. Yeah wow, but you know now here we are.
Speaker 1: So I share that because like pretty much the only
Speaker 1: thing I'm doing right now is like local shows in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Uh, I'm trying to think of I do.
Speaker 1: I am on a kid's show that's on Netflix, that's
Speaker 1: coming out sometime soon. I have no idea when cool
Speaker 1: just like one episode, but it's pretty neat called It's
Speaker 1: called Wat and Mochi Cure. It's a fun episode. Fun
Speaker 1: to work with puppets. Puppets, Yeah, that was cool.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 1: Didn't realize it was a lifelong dream. You know, you
Speaker 1: grow up, are you voicing or no? I got to
Speaker 1: be a person with the puppets.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 1: And the puppeteers were like, you're like a human puppet,
Speaker 1: and I was like, this is the compliment I've been
Speaker 1: waiting for my entire life.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, a human puppet. Yeah, is there like
Speaker 2: a dude next to you or whatever?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Wow, multiple people.
Speaker 2: I get so lost in that stuff that I always
Speaker 2: am blown away when I see like a behind the
Speaker 2: scenes what it really looks like.
Speaker 1: I know, it's so wild and it's so it's so physical,
Speaker 1: like what they have to do to do that stuff.
Speaker 2: You know, and some of those like Sesame Street, it's
Speaker 2: like three people when doing that, they're.
Speaker 1: Watching the TV while they're acting with the thing. And
Speaker 1: this is a lot. Yeah, this is a lot more
Speaker 1: than I thought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well well that's what I got going on. Perfect.
Speaker 1: Oh if you're in Los Angeles. I'm doing an hour
Speaker 1: at the Allegian on August nineteenth.
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with that place. Yeah, I love it so
Speaker 2: much fun. Thank you so much to River. Please check
Speaker 2: out the video version of this episode with the link
Speaker 2: in the description of this episode and Patreon. All that
Speaker 2: stuff is in there. And guys, you following the show
Speaker 2: you subscribed, could you please rate it five stars, read
Speaker 2: a nice review, or leave a ghost story there or
Speaker 2: send me a ghost story at ghosted by Roz at
Speaker 2: gmail dot com. I'm on Instagram at roz Hernandez TikTok
Speaker 2: and Twitter at It's Roz Hernandez. I'll be back next week.
Speaker 2: I love you all, both living and dead. But if
Speaker 2: I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't haunt me
Speaker 2: came back. Star bands are a podcast a podcast network
Speaker 2: mm hm