WEBVTT - 6: Plunder

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<v Speaker 1>In two thousand and two. Ken van Muzbergen is, like

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<v Speaker 1>many Atari fans, on the lookout for vintage Atari items,

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<v Speaker 1>and by this point pretty much anything Atari is considered vintage.

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<v Speaker 1>The heyday of the classic twenty six hundred console has

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<v Speaker 1>come and gone. The video game scene is dominated by

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<v Speaker 1>Nintendo Sony and the upstart Microsoft. Atari is the retro choice,

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<v Speaker 1>an echo of childhood. It's fun to pick up old

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<v Speaker 1>games on eBay and usually pretty cheap, but not always cheap.

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<v Speaker 1>Ken is on eBay and he sees a listing that

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<v Speaker 1>stops him in his tracks. The one thing, it's the price.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was an excess of eight to ten

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>For another, it's the game.

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<v Speaker 2>And then all of a sudden, this prototype in quotes

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<v Speaker 2>my air quotes shows up on eBay, so request air

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<v Speaker 2>World like no, can't be.

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<v Speaker 1>Like many Atari collectors, he's well aware of sword Quest,

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<v Speaker 1>the contest that promised players a pile of gold treasure

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<v Speaker 1>for winning one of four games, Earth World, fire World,

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<v Speaker 1>water World, and the mythical final game air World.

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<v Speaker 2>Tara It's our final challenge, a world made of air,

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<v Speaker 2>Quick to the Flying Horse.

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<v Speaker 1>Those first three games were released, then In nineteen eighty six,

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<v Speaker 1>Atari's new management team canceled the contest, throwing the remaining

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<v Speaker 1>prizes into limbo and the fourth game, Airworld, into the

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<v Speaker 1>proverbial trash. It never appeared on store shelves.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is probably the most sought after prototype

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<v Speaker 2>in the history of the Atari twenty one hundred. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean Airworld, the fourth part to the sword Quest series,

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<v Speaker 2>the never released Airworld.

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<v Speaker 1>But here it is, i'm eBay of all places, an

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<v Speaker 1>original air World cartridge, never before seen, long thought to

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<v Speaker 1>be vaporware, never even finished on a programming level. If

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<v Speaker 1>it existed at all, it could have only been as

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<v Speaker 1>a single copy kept within the walls of Atari alone.

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<v Speaker 1>Prototype Ken is so captivated by the game that it

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<v Speaker 1>takes him a minute to register the price thousands and

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<v Speaker 1>still going.

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<v Speaker 2>But then, you know, the bids start to get astronomically high.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I got no chance of getting this. Hopefully

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<v Speaker 2>it goes to someone I know.

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<v Speaker 1>But then there's trouble. Even with the bidding increasing, the

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<v Speaker 1>auction is suddenly terminated and.

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<v Speaker 2>Then it ends just as abruptly, like, Okay, this is

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<v Speaker 2>kind of fishy here.

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<v Speaker 1>Air World is a part of the Lost sword Quest treasures.

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<v Speaker 1>Like the prizes themselves, it appears to keep slipping through

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<v Speaker 1>the hands of collectors.

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<v Speaker 2>So what is this? I was curious to found just

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<v Speaker 2>what it was. Was it something that escaped the lab? Oh? No,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a lot of weird stuff went on Atari

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<v Speaker 2>at the end. There were so many things going on.

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<v Speaker 2>No one knew what was going on.

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<v Speaker 1>But where had it come from? Who was selling it?

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<v Speaker 1>And if Airworld had finally surfaced, was it possible the

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred thousand dollars in missing prizes wouldn't be far behind?

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<v Speaker 1>For iHeartRadio, this is the legend of sword Quest. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>your host, Jamie Loftus and this is episode six Plunder.

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<v Speaker 1>Sixteen years before Airworld popped up on eBay like a

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<v Speaker 1>missing kid on a milk carton, Atari had done away

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<v Speaker 1>with sword Quest. The prizes vanished. They were all made

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<v Speaker 1>by the Franklin Mint, the collectibles company that specialized in

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<v Speaker 1>limited edition art, and some believed they were returned to

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<v Speaker 1>the Mint, only to be destroyed or sold to someone

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<v Speaker 1>at the yard sale. See the last episode for details.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of collectors in pop culture historians care about

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<v Speaker 1>the fate of those prizes, but some Atari collectors are

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<v Speaker 1>Kart people. They scoured the internet for classic cartridges, preferably

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<v Speaker 1>still in the original box and with the owner's manual.

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<v Speaker 1>The rarer the better. The original Mario Brothers game, which

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<v Speaker 1>came out for the Atari twenty six hundred before Nintendo

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<v Speaker 1>launched in America. That might go for a grand in

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<v Speaker 1>good condition. Joust Asteroids a few hundred bucks plus shipping

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<v Speaker 1>Moon Patrol without a box, Well, that one we can

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<v Speaker 1>let go for under twenty dollars no refunds. For Ken,

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<v Speaker 1>a software developer based in San Diego, getting back into

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<v Speaker 1>Atari after experiencing it as a kid wasn't just about

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<v Speaker 1>watching games pile up. It was a kind of therapy.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole story about me getting back into Atari is

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<v Speaker 2>an interesting story in its own, but it was when

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<v Speaker 2>my mom was diagon gnosed with als lugeeric disease in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety six. The social worker. That's a pretty devastating

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<v Speaker 2>thing the news to get to that at that time

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<v Speaker 2>in your life. Really, you know, the person that's been

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<v Speaker 2>there for you, has been your strength for you, is

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<v Speaker 2>now at some point not going to be there anymore,

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<v Speaker 2>And the best thing to do is to not think

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<v Speaker 2>about that. Of course, that's easier said than done. But

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<v Speaker 2>find a hobby, find something that brought you joy in

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<v Speaker 2>your life at one point, and maybe revisit it. So

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<v Speaker 2>I sort of like, I really loved that Attori twice

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred. So I dug it out of storage, found

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<v Speaker 2>all my games again, found all my stuff again, and

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<v Speaker 2>started collecting. I picked up Atari computers. I started picking

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<v Speaker 2>up all their consoles I didn't own before, like the television,

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<v Speaker 2>the Clco vision, got the AIO hundred Exil for the

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<v Speaker 2>first time, so I started getting all that stuff again

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<v Speaker 2>and getting back into that, which really helped.

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<v Speaker 1>Ken played sword Quest as a kid. It was an

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<v Speaker 1>exercise in keeping one's expectations in check.

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<v Speaker 2>We just couldn't figure out what was going on. For

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<v Speaker 2>the most part. I was mainly in it for the

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<v Speaker 2>story in the comics and pretty much playing the games

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<v Speaker 2>for the games. I actually had more fun reading the

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<v Speaker 2>comic books than I did playing the games. Quite honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>the comics really helped. I mean I read the comic

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<v Speaker 2>and then I wanted the other games for the comic.

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<v Speaker 2>Quite honestly. I mean, we still played the games, but

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<v Speaker 2>I want to know where the story went. We got

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<v Speaker 2>all those games because the comics were in them.

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<v Speaker 1>Ken played Earthworld, Fireworld, water World, and then watched the

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<v Speaker 1>video game industry burn to the ground before anyone could

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<v Speaker 1>get Airworld. For over a decade, it was understood that

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<v Speaker 1>Airworld was never finished. The game was intended to be

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<v Speaker 1>a first person adventure, with Tor, one of the two

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<v Speaker 1>heroes of the story, riding astride a flying horse as

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<v Speaker 1>one does. It was supposed to be based on the

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<v Speaker 1>I Chain, just as all the sword Quest games were

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<v Speaker 1>inspired by different philosophies. It would be the grand finale

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<v Speaker 1>to the series, with players finally finding out the fate

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<v Speaker 1>of siblings Tour and Tara in their fight against King Tyrannus.

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<v Speaker 1>But since DC never created a comic, you'll have to

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<v Speaker 1>use your imagination.

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<v Speaker 2>You're a jerk, King Terrannist. I hope you get bought

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<v Speaker 2>out by a capitalist who forgets you eat.

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<v Speaker 3>Exist up yours, Tour. It's a free market. Atari Sports

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<v Speaker 3>Quarter revenue forecast. We're a disaster. They sealed their own bait.

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<v Speaker 1>Go play in traffic Tyrannus.

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<v Speaker 4>Ah.

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<v Speaker 1>Although Airworld was never released, that doesn't mean that no

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<v Speaker 1>one worked on it. Pod Fry, the creator of sword Quest,

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<v Speaker 1>started programming it before everything went south. Here's Todd.

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<v Speaker 4>I started working on Airworld before water World was done.

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<v Speaker 4>So the story there is that I finished Fireworld and

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<v Speaker 4>put it in the pipeline, and I started working on

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<v Speaker 4>air World, and I had some concept animation and some

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<v Speaker 4>concept art, and I had this thing, some pretty interesting

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<v Speaker 4>stuff to me, and I got asked to do Zivius.

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<v Speaker 4>I got pulled off air World. Zevius was a popular

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<v Speaker 4>coin up game at the time, maybe and management wanted

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<v Speaker 4>it done. Other programmers threw up their hands in despair,

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<v Speaker 4>and they asked me to give it a shot, and

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<v Speaker 4>I went ahead and did it.

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<v Speaker 1>By the time he got back to Airworld, there was

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<v Speaker 1>no more sword Quest. The final game was only partially assembled.

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<v Speaker 1>That should have been case closed, except well, except Todd

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<v Speaker 1>Fry left Atari in nineteen eighty four. It's possible that

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<v Speaker 1>Todd began working on Airworld, sure, and he didn't finish it,

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<v Speaker 1>but that doesn't mean someone else at Atari didn't complete

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<v Speaker 1>the game. So it could be released without being associated

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<v Speaker 1>with the contest. They wouldn't even have to call it

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<v Speaker 1>air World. There was precedent for games being abandoned and

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<v Speaker 1>then rediscovered in the nineteen nineties, someone went to a

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<v Speaker 1>flea market and picked up a bizarre Atari cartridge that

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<v Speaker 1>was unlabeled. When they plugged it into their vintage Atari console,

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<v Speaker 1>they saw a game that was never known to exist,

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<v Speaker 1>aqua Venture. The game, which was about an underwater explorer

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<v Speaker 1>searching for lost treasure, had never been released by Atari.

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<v Speaker 1>Somehow the prototype had found its way out of the

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<v Speaker 1>offices and at a yard sale. So who's to say

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<v Speaker 1>this eBay listing for Airworld couldn't be a similar situation.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe this was an incomplete version set aside when Todd left,

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<v Speaker 1>or a complete version finished by someone else. So Ken

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<v Speaker 1>van Mersbergen clicked on the eBay username of the seller

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<v Speaker 1>offering Airworld and dashed off a message he wanted more

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<v Speaker 1>details where the game him come from, But he can

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<v Speaker 1>get a copy for archival purposes. Can wait it. And

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<v Speaker 1>then he got to notice a new message.

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<v Speaker 2>But he was always there's always an excuse as to

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<v Speaker 2>why he couldn't send me the carters to dump for him.

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<v Speaker 2>He didn't trust FedEx, hedn't trust ups, doesn't trust anybody.

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<v Speaker 1>The seller didn't want to send Ken the game so

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<v Speaker 1>he could dump it. That's a slang term for making

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<v Speaker 1>a copy of a game from a rom chip as

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<v Speaker 1>a kind of backup, and well, you can see his point.

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<v Speaker 1>He had something valuable, why make a copy of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Atari collectors were beginning to buzz about the listing for gamers,

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<v Speaker 1>this was a grail. And then the seller introduced himself

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<v Speaker 1>to the Atari community. He posted on Atari Age, a

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<v Speaker 1>forum for Atari devotees. He explained how he had taken

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<v Speaker 1>possession of air World.

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<v Speaker 2>I think a story was he bought it from an

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<v Speaker 2>Exittari employee, then later it was his who got it

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<v Speaker 2>from the Exitari employer. He got it from his brother

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<v Speaker 2>and it probably morphed again.

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<v Speaker 1>After that, the seller fielded a lot of questions. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>the game crashes, he said, when picking up an object

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<v Speaker 1>or entering your room. It was glitchy, but that was

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<v Speaker 1>all to be expected for an old prototype. Even Todd

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<v Speaker 1>Fry posted to say it was possible the seller had

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<v Speaker 1>gotten hold of an incomplete version that had somehow escaped

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<v Speaker 1>Atari's offices. The seller also had, as the kids would say,

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<v Speaker 1>though was seen.

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<v Speaker 2>And then because everybody's asking, well, can you post some screenshots?

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<v Speaker 2>Can you post some video? Can we see something?

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<v Speaker 1>One troubling thing was that the screenshots looked extremely clear clean.

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<v Speaker 1>This was a console that was twenty years old by

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<v Speaker 1>this point, so how had the seller gotten such sharp images?

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<v Speaker 2>When they started examining the screenshots, he said they were

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<v Speaker 2>taken off a video capture card, which you said, is

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<v Speaker 2>this sophisticated one? But the AHTI all and wonder ve.

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<v Speaker 2>The VE stands for Value Edition. It's a consumer level

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<v Speaker 2>video card, and he says he's achieving these crystal clear

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<v Speaker 2>screenshots from an RF modulator from a twenty six hundred,

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<v Speaker 2>which wasn't known. They have the best video anyway. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a non modern system, he says, And it happens to

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<v Speaker 2>be the same resolution as the screenshots from the Stella emulator. Coincidence,

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<v Speaker 2>I think not.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's translate Kenn here. Basically, the game looked like it

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<v Speaker 1>was coming from an emulator, which runs old games on

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<v Speaker 1>modern equipment as opposed to old games on old systems.

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<v Speaker 1>Imagine someone telling you they found an old VHS tape

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<v Speaker 1>and then showing you a screenshot that looked like it

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<v Speaker 1>came from a Blu ray. It didn't add up. Some

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<v Speaker 1>collectors began doing a detailed analysis of the screenshots, treating

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<v Speaker 1>it like this appruder film this pixel looks like it

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<v Speaker 1>might be from an earlier sword Quest game. That pixel

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<v Speaker 1>could wouldn't have been generated on Atari technology of the era.

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<v Speaker 1>It became a matter of forensics. The character in the

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<v Speaker 1>game had a pink head, red shirt and black pants.

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<v Speaker 1>One single tiny pixel meant to represent his hand was green.

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<v Speaker 1>Green was a background for the original Earth World game.

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<v Speaker 1>It was as though someone had simply cut and pasted

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<v Speaker 1>the graphic from an existing sword Quest title. And another

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<v Speaker 1>bit of incriminating information, the horse on the title screen

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<v Speaker 1>looked a lot like a horse from another game.

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<v Speaker 2>The horse and rider is from the Lord of the

0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:39.000
<v Speaker 2>ringsportotype developed by Parker Brothers. And he said, oh, back then,

0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.360
<v Speaker 2>forms artis used to reduce gravies all the time. Yeah,

0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:45.680
<v Speaker 2>but these are two different companies, Atari and Parker Brothers,

0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.679
<v Speaker 2>and they did not have that kind of working relationship.

0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.599
<v Speaker 1>The air World story was getting stranger, but there was

0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.960
<v Speaker 1>one element of the Seller story that rang true. The

0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.520
<v Speaker 1>idea that something of value could get lost at a

0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:03.839
<v Speaker 1>Tari was no fiction. When the video game industry collapsed,

0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.640
<v Speaker 1>Atari went up for sale, and like a lot of transactions,

0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:12.400
<v Speaker 1>it was messy, chaotic, and some things or prizes may

0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.840
<v Speaker 1>have gone flying under the radar or in this case,

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:27.000
<v Speaker 1>under someone's jacket. It's reasonable to imagine Atari would take

0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.840
<v Speaker 1>precautions over the sword quest prizes, like a bank watching

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.240
<v Speaker 1>over valuables at a safety deposit box. And at the

0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:38.800
<v Speaker 1>contests they did, normally a security guard was standing over them.

0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.200
<v Speaker 1>But that doesn't account for the absolute chaos that was

0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Atari changing ownership. In summer nineteen eighty four, Warner Communications

0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:53.240
<v Speaker 1>sold Atari to Jack Tremmel, a computer hardware mastermind who

0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:55.880
<v Speaker 1>had made the Commodore sixty four one of the best

0:14:55.880 --> 0:15:01.440
<v Speaker 1>selling personal computers in history. That's true, even to Warner

0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:05.040
<v Speaker 1>held a kind of fire sale, selling Jack Atari's consumer

0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:10.440
<v Speaker 1>division and handing over the company's property, filing cabinets, chairs, desks,

0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:19.720
<v Speaker 1>even entire buildings. It all happened very quickly, but the

0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:24.200
<v Speaker 1>new leaner Atari didn't need so much stuff. Buildings had

0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:28.680
<v Speaker 1>to go, space had to be consolidated, and so did employees.

0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.480
<v Speaker 1>It was possibly the darkest chapter in Atari's long history.

0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:38.320
<v Speaker 1>In Hallway after Hallway, where star programmers like Todd Fry

0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:42.120
<v Speaker 1>once ran up and down and smoked incredible amounts of weed,

0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.800
<v Speaker 1>there was just silence in side offices. People had left

0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.160
<v Speaker 1>so abruptly that they had left monitors on gone in

0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.040
<v Speaker 1>mid assignment. It was like the rapture had hit Atari,

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.360
<v Speaker 1>with most people disappearing completely out of sight. Here's an

0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:02.400
<v Speaker 1>example of the confusion. The lack of inventory keeping was

0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.960
<v Speaker 1>so profound that it wasn't until months later that one

0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Atari employee discovered Atari owned a large warehouse full of BMW's.

0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 1>These were very expensive cars that were leased for upper management.

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 1>They were told to drop off the cars, which were

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 1>packed in so tightly that some workers had to crawl

0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:30.080
<v Speaker 1>out of the warehouse window to get out. An entire

0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:35.040
<v Speaker 1>fleet of company vehicles were left to collect dust, virtually forgotten.

0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 1>If that could happen to cars, what could happen to

0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:43.200
<v Speaker 1>some contest prizes. Here's another thing about Atari. At this time,

0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.440
<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of employee turnover. Marketing. Employees with

0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.320
<v Speaker 1>knowledge of the contest were out the door. Atari's new

0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.640
<v Speaker 1>management knew about sword Quest, they had to address it,

0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.280
<v Speaker 1>but they may not have known about the prizes until

0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.720
<v Speaker 1>they went missing. Along the hallways of a Atari were

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:06.160
<v Speaker 1>stacks of computers, printers, keyboards, files, and plenty of employees

0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:10.240
<v Speaker 1>just wandering through, some of whom seized an opportunity to

0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.879
<v Speaker 1>grab some work from home supplies despite their employment status.

0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.119
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't as though Atari fired everyone. It's just that

0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:22.760
<v Speaker 1>most employees weren't part of the sale and weren't being retained. Actually,

0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.360
<v Speaker 1>let's just be blunt. There was employee left during the transition,

0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:31.320
<v Speaker 1>mostly office equipment. This chaos went on for days, for

0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.280
<v Speaker 1>over a week, stuff being wheeled out, people being ushered out,

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.520
<v Speaker 1>papers being shredded. No one aware that BMW's were just

0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 1>sitting around, and possibly no one noticing that a bundle

0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.800
<v Speaker 1>of very expensive prizes were in the hands of a

0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:52.520
<v Speaker 1>disgruntled employee, one who was being unceremoniously dumped in an

0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.560
<v Speaker 1>effort to trim down costs. It could have gone under

0:17:55.600 --> 0:18:00.600
<v Speaker 1>someone's coat or in a filing cabinet. Here's Todd Fry.

0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.399
<v Speaker 4>I don't know how much the prize that exists and

0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.680
<v Speaker 4>known as so I wouldn't be surprised if a couple

0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:10.800
<v Speaker 4>of them disappeared in inventory shrinkage. And I'm saying I

0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:16.000
<v Speaker 4>wouldn't be surprised if someone melted them down and you know.

0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:16.040
<v Speaker 5>Bought drugs.

0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.840
<v Speaker 4>It's like down payment of a house back then. Actually,

0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.160
<v Speaker 4>it's alcurely really shocking. You could like buy a car,

0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.800
<v Speaker 4>put yourself through college. It's been done. I wouldn't be

0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.159
<v Speaker 4>surprised if a couple of them just straight up disappeared

0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:33.840
<v Speaker 4>to conversion. I would be relatively surprised if someone had

0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:35.280
<v Speaker 4>them and was hiding them.

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.320
<v Speaker 1>The Great Atari Exodus of nineteen eighty four could have

0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:44.480
<v Speaker 1>seen the remnants of sword Quest disappear forever in someone's trunk,

0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.119
<v Speaker 1>in a safe that was wheeled out on a dolly,

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.879
<v Speaker 1>in a warehouse that no one even knew existed. Isn't

0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:54.840
<v Speaker 1>that how most of history is lost, not by purposeful neglect,

0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.280
<v Speaker 1>but by the passage of time and the changing of

0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:01.280
<v Speaker 1>the guard. No one was responsible for guarding those treasures,

0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.800
<v Speaker 1>and it's possible someone simply plundered them.

0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.280
<v Speaker 4>What a strange thing to have is part of my history.

0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.600
<v Speaker 4>I don't think about this that often, but I made

0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:17.840
<v Speaker 4>that sword come into existence through an act of manifestation.

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:26.720
<v Speaker 4>I thought grail Quest sort of sorcery Franklin meant, and poof,

0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:33.359
<v Speaker 4>there was sixty thousand dollars precious metals and stones, and

0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.520
<v Speaker 4>it is out there somewhere. It may have been disassembled

0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:41.160
<v Speaker 4>for cash, but somewhere out there is this product of

0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.879
<v Speaker 4>my imagination weird.

0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.600
<v Speaker 1>At least the other product of Todd's imagination, air World

0:19:49.119 --> 0:20:01.200
<v Speaker 1>had been found, hadn't it? Ken was frustrated. He decided

0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.479
<v Speaker 1>to take another look at the message Todd fry had

0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:08.240
<v Speaker 1>posted in support of this mythical air World find. This time,

0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.639
<v Speaker 1>he looked more closely at the return email. It was

0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.120
<v Speaker 1>your standard letter number combo. When he searched for it,

0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.760
<v Speaker 1>he found it was mentioned in another post, this time

0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:22.200
<v Speaker 1>along with the email used by the ebayseller Jeremy.

0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.040
<v Speaker 2>When I first saw the posting was signed you know

0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.200
<v Speaker 2>a Fry, thought, did he actually say this? It's really

0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.320
<v Speaker 2>tough to know. And then I did some more digging

0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.600
<v Speaker 2>and I found the email address that posted that. That

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:41.119
<v Speaker 2>email was linked to Jeremy's other account. Didn't take too

0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:45.600
<v Speaker 2>much digging to find that, And then I posted that saying, Okay,

0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.800
<v Speaker 2>he's faked the email, which just so happens to describe

0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:56.240
<v Speaker 2>this prototype he has, so it gets deeper and everyone's

0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.280
<v Speaker 2>coming out of the woodwork on it. We got Todd

0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Frye even looked at the photograph and said, no, that's

0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:01.720
<v Speaker 2>not our world.

0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:07.680
<v Speaker 1>The seller was being confronted virtually anyway, with overwhelming evidence

0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.840
<v Speaker 1>he had faked the whole thing, the game, the email

0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:17.800
<v Speaker 1>from Todd Fry, the screenshot. He acted surprised, He apologized

0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.119
<v Speaker 1>and vowed to find out what might have happened. He

0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.600
<v Speaker 1>asked that Angry Collectors didn't use any more foul language.

0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:29.800
<v Speaker 1>He didn't, of course take any responsibility. He had been

0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:30.959
<v Speaker 1>a victim too.

0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.560
<v Speaker 2>He never admits that it's fake. He's he's thinking if

0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:35.399
<v Speaker 2>it's a fake, that he's a victim too, because he

0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.720
<v Speaker 2>bought it from somebody that they obviously faked it, but

0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.320
<v Speaker 2>he would never let any of us examine it. And

0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:43.920
<v Speaker 2>the photo of the character was always crainy. I mean,

0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:47.199
<v Speaker 2>everybody was thanking me for outing him for faking that email.

0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:51.399
<v Speaker 2>That was just like the final straw. And then he

0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:55.199
<v Speaker 2>also he made a second account on atari age to

0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.680
<v Speaker 2>be a friend of him, who is the engineer who

0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:00.560
<v Speaker 2>set up the graphics workstation that took the pictures. And

0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:04.520
<v Speaker 2>then Albert, who was the moderator of atari Age, found

0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:06.920
<v Speaker 2>out that both those accounts originated from the same IP

0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:10.000
<v Speaker 2>address in the same physical location. He was trying either

0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:13.720
<v Speaker 2>to raise the value of his bs or something. He

0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.760
<v Speaker 2>disappeared around two thousand and four and we haven't heard

0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:17.359
<v Speaker 2>from him since.

0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Even now, Ken isn't sure what the seller's endgame was.

0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Has he programmed the game so anyone buying it would

0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:27.639
<v Speaker 1>be fooled into thinking it was air World? Would he

0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:30.240
<v Speaker 1>simply insist it must have gotten even.

0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:35.120
<v Speaker 2>Glitchier make some money at someone else's expense. And at

0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:38.080
<v Speaker 2>the time, eBay did not have the protections they have now.

0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:40.920
<v Speaker 2>If you pretty much can't get scanned on eBay now,

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:43.440
<v Speaker 2>But back then, once the buyer paid his money and

0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:46.680
<v Speaker 2>the seller showed a tracking number or a shipment, eBay

0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:47.320
<v Speaker 2>was off the hook.

0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:51.440
<v Speaker 1>When Airworld was revealed as a fraud, it was a

0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:56.320
<v Speaker 1>total bummer for the Atari collecting community. Here was hope

0:22:56.400 --> 0:23:00.719
<v Speaker 1>something lost had been preserved and recovered. Only the it

0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:04.919
<v Speaker 1>was an impostor if you're a completist, someone who wanted

0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:08.760
<v Speaker 1>to see the series finished, then it was almost maddening.

0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:13.120
<v Speaker 1>But think about movies or books for a second. Sometimes

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:18.400
<v Speaker 1>authors or filmmakers leave behind unfinished works. Sometimes creators don't

0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:22.200
<v Speaker 1>get a chance to have their full vision realized. Orson

0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:24.840
<v Speaker 1>Wells didn't have the money to finish his Opus The

0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Other Side of the Wind, but another director, Peter Bogdanovitch,

0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:33.280
<v Speaker 1>helped complete it. Decades later, Frank Herbert couldn't keep writing

0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:37.720
<v Speaker 1>Dune books because Well he died, so his son Brian

0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:41.520
<v Speaker 1>took up the mantle. In video games, some players become

0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:47.040
<v Speaker 1>programmers and their hobby becomes more participatory. So, following the

0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:51.359
<v Speaker 1>Great air World scandal, Ken van Muzbergen decided to become

0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:55.840
<v Speaker 1>the Bogdanovich to Todd fryes orson Wells, he decided he

0:23:56.320 --> 0:23:59.680
<v Speaker 1>would complete air World. He had been planning on a

0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:02.720
<v Speaker 1>home brew or homemade game for a while.

0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:06.200
<v Speaker 2>Then I was thinking to myself, Okay, what game should

0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:09.440
<v Speaker 2>I do? So I had to look back and think, okay,

0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:13.280
<v Speaker 2>sword quests Airworld never came out.

0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:17.520
<v Speaker 1>Ken reached out to Todd, the real Todd for advice.

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:20.119
<v Speaker 2>Hey told me the air World was based on the

0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Eaching because all of the short quest games were based

0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:26.600
<v Speaker 2>on something. Earthworld was on the zodiac, Fireworld was the

0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Tree of Life, and I forget what Water Word was

0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:32.359
<v Speaker 2>based on, but it was it was something similar in

0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:37.000
<v Speaker 2>those veins. So Airworld being, you know, the Philosopher's Stone

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:39.840
<v Speaker 2>was your prize that the e Ching was chosen as

0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:44.600
<v Speaker 2>the basis, and the different trigrams and there's sixty four

0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:46.960
<v Speaker 2>different texagrams and then things of that.

0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.480
<v Speaker 1>This was a radical undertaking. Precious little of the game

0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:55.080
<v Speaker 1>had been made, and what there was had to be

0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:59.560
<v Speaker 1>described by others. For another thing, the narrative which had

0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:02.720
<v Speaker 1>been provided I did by DC Comics was canceled right

0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:05.760
<v Speaker 1>along with the game. Ken wanted to see if that

0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:08.800
<v Speaker 1>lost comic had ever been completed.

0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:12.160
<v Speaker 2>Like if I'm going to do air World, it has

0:25:12.280 --> 0:25:15.720
<v Speaker 2>to have a comic book, because the first three did

0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:20.960
<v Speaker 2>and the story was left kind of hanging there. I

0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:23.680
<v Speaker 2>always wondered what happened to those guys. So I got

0:25:23.680 --> 0:25:26.600
<v Speaker 2>in touch with Dick Giordano over at DC Comics. He

0:25:26.680 --> 0:25:29.760
<v Speaker 2>was still working there. He was the producer at the

0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:33.280
<v Speaker 2>time back then of special projects, and sword Quest was

0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:35.520
<v Speaker 2>one of those projects they did for Atari because at

0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:38.080
<v Speaker 2>the time they were both owned by Warner Communications, and

0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:40.520
<v Speaker 2>The Franklin Mint was also owned by Warner at the time,

0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:43.439
<v Speaker 2>so that stories of how that connection worked, and I

0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:46.359
<v Speaker 2>asked him was the fourth part ever written? Because I

0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:48.760
<v Speaker 2>did a little research on how comic books are created,

0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:53.359
<v Speaker 2>and usually the story is scripted out first, then storyboarded,

0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:56.040
<v Speaker 2>and usually all the parts of the story are done

0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:59.400
<v Speaker 2>before they start even beginning on the artwork. So figured, well,

0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe it was boarded and scripted and just never came out.

0:26:03.320 --> 0:26:06.800
<v Speaker 2>No such luck, he assumed there was. It was archived

0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:09.600
<v Speaker 2>there somewhere. He couldn't remember the details at all, but

0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:10.960
<v Speaker 2>he was going to take a look and let me know.

0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:14.159
<v Speaker 2>Well ended up never getting back to me, although I

0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:16.359
<v Speaker 2>did also get kind oft with George Perez, who was

0:26:16.359 --> 0:26:18.360
<v Speaker 2>the artist for the sword Quest series, and pretty good

0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:21.760
<v Speaker 2>art it was, and he told us that no artwork

0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:24.520
<v Speaker 2>for air World was ever begun or drawn. He said,

0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:27.600
<v Speaker 2>the authors may have done something in platform, but it

0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:29.520
<v Speaker 2>never got to the point where our work was required.

0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:33.240
<v Speaker 1>But if Ken could make a game, he could make

0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:34.080
<v Speaker 1>a comic too.

0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:37.760
<v Speaker 2>It ended up happening. Someone did respond to that challenge,

0:26:37.840 --> 0:26:42.199
<v Speaker 2>Amy Tait, now now Dingman. She offered to draw the comic,

0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:46.159
<v Speaker 2>and I said, peck, yes, let's let's see what we

0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:48.080
<v Speaker 2>can do with that. So we had to flesh out

0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:52.320
<v Speaker 2>a story. So me and her we fleshed out kind

0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:56.560
<v Speaker 2>of a story where the twins arrive in Airworld, they

0:26:57.040 --> 0:27:00.159
<v Speaker 2>wandered around. We noticed the first three stories follow a

0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:04.240
<v Speaker 2>certain pattern. They arrive, they get separated, they talk to

0:27:04.280 --> 0:27:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Mentorum and Tara, they go onto the quest, they get reunited,

0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:10.920
<v Speaker 2>and they ultimately find the prize. Right, so we went

0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:13.159
<v Speaker 2>along the same thing, although we had to put in

0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:17.400
<v Speaker 2>though the final confrontation because Conjero and Tarrannus are joining

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:19.119
<v Speaker 2>them in air World, and that's going to be a

0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:22.879
<v Speaker 2>fight to end off fights in my opinion. But what

0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:26.000
<v Speaker 2>I ended up happening in the plot for mine for

0:27:26.119 --> 0:27:30.160
<v Speaker 2>ours actually was that they would get separated in battle

0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:36.359
<v Speaker 2>and Tara would face Conjiro and Toora would face Tyrannus

0:27:37.119 --> 0:27:40.480
<v Speaker 2>in one on one combat, and that Tara would definitely

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:44.240
<v Speaker 2>be overmatched against Conjero. He's a very powerful sorcerer, but

0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:48.199
<v Speaker 2>Taranna's and tor could pretty much go even. So we

0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:51.520
<v Speaker 2>had to work that in there somehow, and we thought, okay, well,

0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Tara can be holding her own and dodging, but she

0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:56.880
<v Speaker 2>has to come up with some magical object that would

0:27:56.880 --> 0:27:59.680
<v Speaker 2>even the odds for her and be able to defeat Conjero.

0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:04.280
<v Speaker 2>So our theory was Herminus is still involved here, and

0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.119
<v Speaker 2>he finally decides whose side he's on, and he helps

0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Tara by giving her this object like tossing a turn

0:28:09.840 --> 0:28:13.360
<v Speaker 2>in the midst of battle and distracts Kunjero for him

0:28:13.359 --> 0:28:17.000
<v Speaker 2>for a moment. On the other side of air World,

0:28:17.320 --> 0:28:20.479
<v Speaker 2>you have Tyrannus and tor battling it out, and it's

0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:23.120
<v Speaker 2>got to the point where Torre has Tyrannus hanging off

0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:26.920
<v Speaker 2>a cliff where he's going to fall to his doom.

0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:30.479
<v Speaker 2>But even Tor is not going to kill Tarannus, so

0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:32.200
<v Speaker 2>he offers to help him up. But of course, what

0:28:32.240 --> 0:28:34.040
<v Speaker 2>does Tyranna's do. He grabs his hand, tries to pull

0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Tor over as well. And that's what we had there,

0:28:37.520 --> 0:28:39.800
<v Speaker 2>which I thought was a pretty good story, and that's

0:28:39.800 --> 0:28:41.560
<v Speaker 2>probably where it stood at that point. We had a

0:28:41.560 --> 0:28:44.480
<v Speaker 2>basic outline of what we wanted to do, and when

0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:47.120
<v Speaker 2>we see if we can actually get it done.

0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:50.920
<v Speaker 1>In a sense, the sword Quest saga was Ken's to finish,

0:28:51.680 --> 0:28:55.520
<v Speaker 1>not in any official way, mind you. Unlike the eBay seller,

0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:58.760
<v Speaker 1>Ken wasn't pulling any kind of fast one on the community.

0:28:59.440 --> 0:29:04.160
<v Speaker 1>A World was transparently a fan effort, something to satisfy

0:29:04.200 --> 0:29:07.320
<v Speaker 1>those who wanted a complete set of sword Quest games,

0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:10.120
<v Speaker 1>but it would still come in a box, in a

0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:13.800
<v Speaker 1>cartridge and with a comic. All Ken had to do

0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:17.400
<v Speaker 1>was find the right programmer, one ideally suited to an

0:29:17.440 --> 0:29:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Atari Homebrew.

0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:21.680
<v Speaker 2>And more help arrived in the form of Ryan Campbell,

0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:25.040
<v Speaker 2>who was a programmer who basically took the skeleton that

0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:27.840
<v Speaker 2>I had written and added more stuff to it and

0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:31.480
<v Speaker 2>actually got it where we had rooms and objects and

0:29:31.640 --> 0:29:35.000
<v Speaker 2>a character that could run between the rooms. We actually

0:29:35.080 --> 0:29:39.720
<v Speaker 2>had it a basis skeleton of a program there, and

0:29:39.800 --> 0:29:40.640
<v Speaker 2>it was coming along.

0:29:41.600 --> 0:29:45.440
<v Speaker 1>The community reaction was positive. Air World seemed like it

0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:48.760
<v Speaker 1>would be moving forward. Then in two thousand and two,

0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Ken encountered his first hiccup.

0:29:52.200 --> 0:29:56.400
<v Speaker 2>But then Ryan disappeared. He ghosted me, yes is the

0:29:56.480 --> 0:29:58.880
<v Speaker 2>term you'd use now? And I don't know what happened

0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:01.000
<v Speaker 2>to him, and I knew it and complete without them.

0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:04.920
<v Speaker 1>This was a bumpier road than Ken had anticipated, and

0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:08.400
<v Speaker 1>there was an even bigger issue at play. Fan fiction

0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:12.720
<v Speaker 1>can run into copyright issues with the original manufacturer. Some

0:30:12.760 --> 0:30:16.440
<v Speaker 1>treat it as a part of fandom. Lucasfilm, for example,

0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:20.880
<v Speaker 1>has long champions Star Wars fan films, while Paramount tends

0:30:20.920 --> 0:30:24.360
<v Speaker 1>to be very strict about Star Trek fan films. Though

0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:27.880
<v Speaker 1>it had changed hands several times over the years, Atari

0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:31.400
<v Speaker 1>was still the rightful owner of sword Quest, and Ken

0:30:31.440 --> 0:30:33.480
<v Speaker 1>began to get a sense that they may not be

0:30:33.600 --> 0:30:36.600
<v Speaker 1>totally on board with his homebrew project.

0:30:36.800 --> 0:30:38.760
<v Speaker 2>I rightly don't blame him, because if you don't protect

0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:41.840
<v Speaker 2>your property, you're going to lose it. I mean, you

0:30:41.880 --> 0:30:45.840
<v Speaker 2>have to protected. Now. Our product was not on sale yet.

0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:50.440
<v Speaker 2>That's probably why I didn't get anything directly. There are

0:30:50.440 --> 0:30:53.840
<v Speaker 2>some friends of mine who are producing homebrews of Atari copyrights,

0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:58.000
<v Speaker 2>and they were getting seasoned desist letters, season desist, copyright infrigement,

0:30:58.160 --> 0:31:02.640
<v Speaker 2>trademark dissolution, whole bunch of nasty evil stuff. So at

0:31:02.640 --> 0:31:05.320
<v Speaker 2>that point, like, well, we're kind of struggling now anyway,

0:31:06.400 --> 0:31:10.200
<v Speaker 2>why not just shut it down for a while, And

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:10.840
<v Speaker 2>that's what we did.

0:31:11.640 --> 0:31:15.160
<v Speaker 1>So in two thousand and two, Ken announced there wouldn't

0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:19.080
<v Speaker 1>be an air World. That was, if we're keeping count,

0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:23.240
<v Speaker 1>the third time the game has been declared missing. But

0:31:23.360 --> 0:31:26.720
<v Speaker 1>for Ken, the project had the same effect as his collecting.

0:31:27.480 --> 0:31:29.680
<v Speaker 1>It was something that had helped him come to terms

0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:33.000
<v Speaker 1>with his mother's illness. She had gotten ill in nineteen

0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:37.600
<v Speaker 1>ninety six. The air World saga Good and Bad came

0:31:37.640 --> 0:31:39.520
<v Speaker 1>in the wake of what happened.

0:31:39.120 --> 0:31:43.520
<v Speaker 2>Next to take your mind off the inevitability of what

0:31:43.640 --> 0:31:46.720
<v Speaker 2>was going to occur. As would turn out, she would

0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:49.080
<v Speaker 2>only live for an her two years. She passed away

0:31:49.080 --> 0:31:50.160
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety eight.

0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Ken's Airworld failed to take flight. But did it matter

0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:58.880
<v Speaker 1>The work itself, even the work of debunking the fake game,

0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:03.840
<v Speaker 1>had occupied his mind, and it helped. You're likely wondering

0:32:04.320 --> 0:32:08.880
<v Speaker 1>why wouldn't Todd Fry simply finish the game. It's complicated.

0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:12.600
<v Speaker 1>For one thing, it's not really commercially viable to make

0:32:12.640 --> 0:32:16.719
<v Speaker 1>a game for an extinct gaming console. For another, it

0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:19.440
<v Speaker 1>can't be hard to go back and replicate how those

0:32:19.480 --> 0:32:23.000
<v Speaker 1>games were made. It's not unlike going back to the moon.

0:32:23.680 --> 0:32:26.760
<v Speaker 1>It's not that NASA forgot how. It's just hard to

0:32:26.760 --> 0:32:27.800
<v Speaker 1>retrace your steps.

0:32:28.600 --> 0:32:30.520
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's hard. Look, the fact of the matter

0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:34.719
<v Speaker 4>is that Airworld is my brain child. A sword Quest

0:32:34.880 --> 0:32:38.560
<v Speaker 4>is my brain child. Only I can do air World.

0:32:39.440 --> 0:32:43.360
<v Speaker 4>You can do a bunch of things that are eaching

0:32:43.760 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 4>informed Atari to twenty six hundred adventure games, but it

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:50.800
<v Speaker 4>won't be air World unless I do it. You can

0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:52.959
<v Speaker 4>call it whatever you want, and Atari gets to call

0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:55.880
<v Speaker 4>it as a trademark owner gets to call it whatever

0:32:55.920 --> 0:32:58.520
<v Speaker 4>the heck they want. I've thought about making an air

0:32:58.520 --> 0:33:01.080
<v Speaker 4>World cartridge, but boy, it is way too much work.

0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:05.480
<v Speaker 4>I've gone back and done Simtari twenty six hundred coding.

0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:10.040
<v Speaker 4>It is so hard. I forgot how hard it was.

0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:12.040
<v Speaker 4>I mean, you can say, oh, yeah, that was really hard,

0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:15.800
<v Speaker 4>but I remember the fun parts. I don't remember the intense,

0:33:16.200 --> 0:33:20.480
<v Speaker 4>amazing tedium. There is a reason that we smoked pot.

0:33:20.920 --> 0:33:26.480
<v Speaker 4>It was hours and hours and hours of incredibly hard work,

0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:37.200
<v Speaker 4>incredibly tedious, detailed, unforgiving, relentlessly difficult, mind numbing work. It's like,

0:33:37.520 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 4>oh my god, And that sounds I'm grinning when I

0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:42.680
<v Speaker 4>say this, because that sounds like a good time, doesn't it.

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Like most everyone familiar with the sword Quest saga, ken

0:33:49.280 --> 0:33:52.160
<v Speaker 1>Vin Murzbergen has a theory on where the prizes may

0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:56.280
<v Speaker 1>have ended up. In fact, as an Atari historian himself,

0:33:56.560 --> 0:34:00.240
<v Speaker 1>he's looked into it. Like some collectors. He believed the

0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:03.479
<v Speaker 1>Franklin mint which made the prizes, took them back and

0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:06.440
<v Speaker 1>melted them down. We mentioned this in the last.

0:34:06.240 --> 0:34:10.600
<v Speaker 2>Episode, probably gone yeah, from the research we had done.

0:34:11.040 --> 0:34:13.080
<v Speaker 2>I just don't believe they exist. Please prove me wrong

0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:14.440
<v Speaker 2>out there, but I don't think they exist.

0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:17.880
<v Speaker 1>There's a kind of trinity of theories that have endured

0:34:18.000 --> 0:34:21.520
<v Speaker 1>over the years. One is that the prizes were returned

0:34:21.520 --> 0:34:25.120
<v Speaker 1>to the Franklin Mint, then melted down for their material value.

0:34:25.800 --> 0:34:29.320
<v Speaker 1>That's what Ken thinks. Another is that someone at Atari

0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:32.520
<v Speaker 1>walked out with the prizes during its transfer of ownership

0:34:32.520 --> 0:34:36.800
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen eighty four. The third and most pervasive theory

0:34:37.400 --> 0:34:42.160
<v Speaker 1>is that they never disappeared at all. They were just relocated.

0:34:42.880 --> 0:34:46.279
<v Speaker 1>In twenty sixteen, a number of former Atari employees came

0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:49.480
<v Speaker 1>together for a tech convention. They fielded all of the

0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:53.799
<v Speaker 1>usual questions. Then a kid stepped up to the microphone

0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:58.080
<v Speaker 1>and got real. He asked them if they knew what

0:34:58.239 --> 0:35:02.920
<v Speaker 1>had happened to the sword question surprizes. Former Atari employees

0:35:02.960 --> 0:35:06.040
<v Speaker 1>got this question a lot, and the panel gave the

0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:09.600
<v Speaker 1>usual answers. Could have been an employee, could have been

0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:13.880
<v Speaker 1>an inventory oversight. But then, as one member of the

0:35:13.920 --> 0:35:17.480
<v Speaker 1>panel was talking, someone in the audience spoke up and

0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:22.880
<v Speaker 1>offered a name. Tremmel, a name that comes up over

0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:26.480
<v Speaker 1>and over in sword quest lore. A man who loomed

0:35:26.560 --> 0:35:30.560
<v Speaker 1>almost as large in gaming history as Mario, someone who

0:35:30.680 --> 0:35:35.200
<v Speaker 1>scared some people and who even considered buying Apple. It's

0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:38.759
<v Speaker 1>time to meet the man who conquered Atari, and who

0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:41.160
<v Speaker 1>may have held the sort of ultimate sorcery up in

0:35:41.239 --> 0:35:45.239
<v Speaker 1>victory after he canceled the contest.

0:35:47.200 --> 0:35:53.239
<v Speaker 3>Oh, it's impossible, it has to be a lie.

0:35:53.480 --> 0:35:53.759
<v Speaker 2>Ha ha.

0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:57.719
<v Speaker 3>Foolish children, your search for the sword has led you

0:35:57.800 --> 0:36:00.040
<v Speaker 3>to me. I am the king, and the king he

0:36:00.320 --> 0:36:04.440
<v Speaker 3>must have his crowd. Tod decarve you both up like

0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:05.640
<v Speaker 3>a holiday.

0:36:05.239 --> 0:36:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Ham a, that's next time on sword Quest.

0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:20.000
<v Speaker 5>The Legend of sword Quest is a production of iHeart

0:36:20.040 --> 0:36:23.279
<v Speaker 5>Podcasts and School of Humans. This episode was written by

0:36:23.360 --> 0:36:27.240
<v Speaker 5>Jake Rosson and hosted by Jamie Loftus producers are Miranda

0:36:27.280 --> 0:36:32.480
<v Speaker 5>Hawkins and Josh Fisher. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, L. C. Crowley,

0:36:32.760 --> 0:36:36.719
<v Speaker 5>Brandon Barr, and Jason English. Our show editor is Mary Doo.

0:36:37.200 --> 0:36:41.200
<v Speaker 5>Audio engineering by Graham Gibson, Research and fact checking by

0:36:41.239 --> 0:36:45.640
<v Speaker 5>Austin Thompson and Jake Rosson. Original score by Jesse Niswanger.

0:36:46.200 --> 0:36:49.680
<v Speaker 5>This episode was sound designed by Jonathan Washington, with additional

0:36:49.800 --> 0:36:53.680
<v Speaker 5>editing by Josh Fisher. Mixing and mastering by Miranda Hawkins.

0:36:53.840 --> 0:36:57.520
<v Speaker 5>Show logo by Lucy Kintonia. Voices in this episode are

0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:01.680
<v Speaker 5>provided by Josh Fisher, Hayley Ellman, and Graham Parkard.