1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: In two thousand and two. Ken van Muzbergen is, like 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: many Atari fans, on the lookout for vintage Atari items, 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: and by this point pretty much anything Atari is considered vintage. 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: The heyday of the classic twenty six hundred console has 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: come and gone. The video game scene is dominated by 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: Nintendo Sony and the upstart Microsoft. Atari is the retro choice, 7 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: an echo of childhood. It's fun to pick up old 8 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: games on eBay and usually pretty cheap, but not always cheap. 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: Ken is on eBay and he sees a listing that 10 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: stops him in his tracks. The one thing, it's the price. 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: I think it was an excess of eight to ten 12 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: thousand dollars. 13 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: For another, it's the game. 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, this prototype in quotes 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: my air quotes shows up on eBay, so request air 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: World like no, can't be. 17 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: Like many Atari collectors, he's well aware of sword Quest, 18 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: the contest that promised players a pile of gold treasure 19 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: for winning one of four games, Earth World, fire World, 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: water World, and the mythical final game air World. 21 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: Tara It's our final challenge, a world made of air, 22 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,199 Speaker 2: Quick to the Flying Horse. 23 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: Those first three games were released, then In nineteen eighty six, 24 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: Atari's new management team canceled the contest, throwing the remaining 25 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: prizes into limbo and the fourth game, Airworld, into the 26 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: proverbial trash. It never appeared on store shelves. 27 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: I mean, this is probably the most sought after prototype 28 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: in the history of the Atari twenty one hundred. I 29 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: mean Airworld, the fourth part to the sword Quest series, 30 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: the never released Airworld. 31 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: But here it is, i'm eBay of all places, an 32 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: original air World cartridge, never before seen, long thought to 33 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: be vaporware, never even finished on a programming level. If 34 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: it existed at all, it could have only been as 35 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: a single copy kept within the walls of Atari alone. 36 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: Prototype Ken is so captivated by the game that it 37 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: takes him a minute to register the price thousands and 38 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: still going. 39 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: But then, you know, the bids start to get astronomically high. 40 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: I'm like, I got no chance of getting this. Hopefully 41 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: it goes to someone I know. 42 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: But then there's trouble. Even with the bidding increasing, the 43 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: auction is suddenly terminated and. 44 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 2: Then it ends just as abruptly, like, Okay, this is 45 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: kind of fishy here. 46 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: Air World is a part of the Lost sword Quest treasures. 47 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: Like the prizes themselves, it appears to keep slipping through 48 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: the hands of collectors. 49 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: So what is this? I was curious to found just 50 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 2: what it was. Was it something that escaped the lab? Oh? No, 51 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 2: it was a lot of weird stuff went on Atari 52 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 2: at the end. There were so many things going on. 53 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: No one knew what was going on. 54 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: But where had it come from? Who was selling it? 55 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: And if Airworld had finally surfaced, was it possible the 56 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars in missing prizes wouldn't be far behind? 57 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: For iHeartRadio, this is the legend of sword Quest. I'm 58 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: your host, Jamie Loftus and this is episode six Plunder. 59 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: Sixteen years before Airworld popped up on eBay like a 60 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: missing kid on a milk carton, Atari had done away 61 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: with sword Quest. The prizes vanished. They were all made 62 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: by the Franklin Mint, the collectibles company that specialized in 63 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: limited edition art, and some believed they were returned to 64 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: the Mint, only to be destroyed or sold to someone 65 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: at the yard sale. See the last episode for details. 66 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: A lot of collectors in pop culture historians care about 67 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: the fate of those prizes, but some Atari collectors are 68 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: Kart people. They scoured the internet for classic cartridges, preferably 69 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: still in the original box and with the owner's manual. 70 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: The rarer the better. The original Mario Brothers game, which 71 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: came out for the Atari twenty six hundred before Nintendo 72 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: launched in America. That might go for a grand in 73 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: good condition. Joust Asteroids a few hundred bucks plus shipping 74 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: Moon Patrol without a box, Well, that one we can 75 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: let go for under twenty dollars no refunds. For Ken, 76 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: a software developer based in San Diego, getting back into 77 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: Atari after experiencing it as a kid wasn't just about 78 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: watching games pile up. It was a kind of therapy. 79 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 2: The whole story about me getting back into Atari is 80 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: an interesting story in its own, but it was when 81 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: my mom was diagon gnosed with als lugeeric disease in 82 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six. The social worker. That's a pretty devastating 83 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,559 Speaker 2: thing the news to get to that at that time 84 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: in your life. Really, you know, the person that's been 85 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: there for you, has been your strength for you, is 86 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 2: now at some point not going to be there anymore, 87 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: And the best thing to do is to not think 88 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: about that. Of course, that's easier said than done. But 89 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 2: find a hobby, find something that brought you joy in 90 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 2: your life at one point, and maybe revisit it. So 91 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 2: I sort of like, I really loved that Attori twice 92 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: two hundred. So I dug it out of storage, found 93 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: all my games again, found all my stuff again, and 94 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: started collecting. I picked up Atari computers. I started picking 95 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 2: up all their consoles I didn't own before, like the television, 96 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 2: the Clco vision, got the AIO hundred Exil for the 97 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,559 Speaker 2: first time, so I started getting all that stuff again 98 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: and getting back into that, which really helped. 99 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: Ken played sword Quest as a kid. It was an 100 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: exercise in keeping one's expectations in check. 101 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 2: We just couldn't figure out what was going on. For 102 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 2: the most part. I was mainly in it for the 103 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 2: story in the comics and pretty much playing the games 104 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 2: for the games. I actually had more fun reading the 105 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: comic books than I did playing the games. Quite honestly, 106 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 2: the comics really helped. I mean I read the comic 107 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 2: and then I wanted the other games for the comic. 108 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: Quite honestly. I mean, we still played the games, but 109 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: I want to know where the story went. We got 110 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 2: all those games because the comics were in them. 111 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: Ken played Earthworld, Fireworld, water World, and then watched the 112 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: video game industry burn to the ground before anyone could 113 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: get Airworld. For over a decade, it was understood that 114 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: Airworld was never finished. The game was intended to be 115 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: a first person adventure, with Tor, one of the two 116 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: heroes of the story, riding astride a flying horse as 117 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: one does. It was supposed to be based on the 118 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: I Chain, just as all the sword Quest games were 119 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: inspired by different philosophies. It would be the grand finale 120 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: to the series, with players finally finding out the fate 121 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: of siblings Tour and Tara in their fight against King Tyrannus. 122 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: But since DC never created a comic, you'll have to 123 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: use your imagination. 124 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: You're a jerk, King Terrannist. I hope you get bought 125 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: out by a capitalist who forgets you eat. 126 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 3: Exist up yours, Tour. It's a free market. Atari Sports 127 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: Quarter revenue forecast. We're a disaster. They sealed their own bait. 128 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: Go play in traffic Tyrannus. 129 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 4: Ah. 130 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: Although Airworld was never released, that doesn't mean that no 131 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: one worked on it. Pod Fry, the creator of sword Quest, 132 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: started programming it before everything went south. Here's Todd. 133 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 4: I started working on Airworld before water World was done. 134 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 4: So the story there is that I finished Fireworld and 135 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 4: put it in the pipeline, and I started working on 136 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 4: air World, and I had some concept animation and some 137 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 4: concept art, and I had this thing, some pretty interesting 138 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 4: stuff to me, and I got asked to do Zivius. 139 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 4: I got pulled off air World. Zevius was a popular 140 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,119 Speaker 4: coin up game at the time, maybe and management wanted 141 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 4: it done. Other programmers threw up their hands in despair, 142 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 4: and they asked me to give it a shot, and 143 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 4: I went ahead and did it. 144 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: By the time he got back to Airworld, there was 145 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: no more sword Quest. The final game was only partially assembled. 146 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: That should have been case closed, except well, except Todd 147 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: Fry left Atari in nineteen eighty four. It's possible that 148 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: Todd began working on Airworld, sure, and he didn't finish it, 149 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean someone else at Atari didn't complete 150 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: the game. So it could be released without being associated 151 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: with the contest. They wouldn't even have to call it 152 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: air World. There was precedent for games being abandoned and 153 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: then rediscovered in the nineteen nineties, someone went to a 154 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: flea market and picked up a bizarre Atari cartridge that 155 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: was unlabeled. When they plugged it into their vintage Atari console, 156 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: they saw a game that was never known to exist, 157 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: aqua Venture. The game, which was about an underwater explorer 158 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: searching for lost treasure, had never been released by Atari. 159 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: Somehow the prototype had found its way out of the 160 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: offices and at a yard sale. So who's to say 161 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: this eBay listing for Airworld couldn't be a similar situation. 162 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: Maybe this was an incomplete version set aside when Todd left, 163 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: or a complete version finished by someone else. So Ken 164 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: van Mersbergen clicked on the eBay username of the seller 165 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: offering Airworld and dashed off a message he wanted more 166 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: details where the game him come from, But he can 167 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: get a copy for archival purposes. Can wait it. And 168 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: then he got to notice a new message. 169 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: But he was always there's always an excuse as to 170 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 2: why he couldn't send me the carters to dump for him. 171 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 2: He didn't trust FedEx, hedn't trust ups, doesn't trust anybody. 172 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: The seller didn't want to send Ken the game so 173 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: he could dump it. That's a slang term for making 174 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: a copy of a game from a rom chip as 175 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: a kind of backup, and well, you can see his point. 176 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: He had something valuable, why make a copy of it. 177 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: Atari collectors were beginning to buzz about the listing for gamers, 178 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: this was a grail. And then the seller introduced himself 179 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: to the Atari community. He posted on Atari Age, a 180 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: forum for Atari devotees. He explained how he had taken 181 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: possession of air World. 182 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 2: I think a story was he bought it from an 183 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 2: Exittari employee, then later it was his who got it 184 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 2: from the Exitari employer. He got it from his brother 185 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 2: and it probably morphed again. 186 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: After that, the seller fielded a lot of questions. Sometimes 187 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: the game crashes, he said, when picking up an object 188 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: or entering your room. It was glitchy, but that was 189 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: all to be expected for an old prototype. Even Todd 190 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: Fry posted to say it was possible the seller had 191 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: gotten hold of an incomplete version that had somehow escaped 192 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: Atari's offices. The seller also had, as the kids would say, 193 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: though was seen. 194 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 2: And then because everybody's asking, well, can you post some screenshots? 195 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: Can you post some video? Can we see something? 196 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: One troubling thing was that the screenshots looked extremely clear clean. 197 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: This was a console that was twenty years old by 198 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: this point, so how had the seller gotten such sharp images? 199 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: When they started examining the screenshots, he said they were 200 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: taken off a video capture card, which you said, is 201 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: this sophisticated one? But the AHTI all and wonder ve. 202 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 2: The VE stands for Value Edition. It's a consumer level 203 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 2: video card, and he says he's achieving these crystal clear 204 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 2: screenshots from an RF modulator from a twenty six hundred, 205 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: which wasn't known. They have the best video anyway. It's 206 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: a non modern system, he says, And it happens to 207 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 2: be the same resolution as the screenshots from the Stella emulator. Coincidence, 208 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 2: I think not. 209 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: Let's translate Kenn here. Basically, the game looked like it 210 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: was coming from an emulator, which runs old games on 211 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: modern equipment as opposed to old games on old systems. 212 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: Imagine someone telling you they found an old VHS tape 213 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: and then showing you a screenshot that looked like it 214 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: came from a Blu ray. It didn't add up. Some 215 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: collectors began doing a detailed analysis of the screenshots, treating 216 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: it like this appruder film this pixel looks like it 217 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: might be from an earlier sword Quest game. That pixel 218 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: could wouldn't have been generated on Atari technology of the era. 219 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: It became a matter of forensics. The character in the 220 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: game had a pink head, red shirt and black pants. 221 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: One single tiny pixel meant to represent his hand was green. 222 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: Green was a background for the original Earth World game. 223 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: It was as though someone had simply cut and pasted 224 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: the graphic from an existing sword Quest title. And another 225 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: bit of incriminating information, the horse on the title screen 226 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: looked a lot like a horse from another game. 227 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 2: The horse and rider is from the Lord of the 228 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 2: ringsportotype developed by Parker Brothers. And he said, oh, back then, 229 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 2: forms artis used to reduce gravies all the time. Yeah, 230 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 2: but these are two different companies, Atari and Parker Brothers, 231 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 2: and they did not have that kind of working relationship. 232 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,599 Speaker 1: The air World story was getting stranger, but there was 233 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: one element of the Seller story that rang true. The 234 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: idea that something of value could get lost at a 235 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 1: Tari was no fiction. When the video game industry collapsed, 236 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: Atari went up for sale, and like a lot of transactions, 237 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: it was messy, chaotic, and some things or prizes may 238 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: have gone flying under the radar or in this case, 239 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: under someone's jacket. It's reasonable to imagine Atari would take 240 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: precautions over the sword quest prizes, like a bank watching 241 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: over valuables at a safety deposit box. And at the 242 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: contests they did, normally a security guard was standing over them. 243 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: But that doesn't account for the absolute chaos that was 244 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: Atari changing ownership. In summer nineteen eighty four, Warner Communications 245 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: sold Atari to Jack Tremmel, a computer hardware mastermind who 246 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: had made the Commodore sixty four one of the best 247 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: selling personal computers in history. That's true, even to Warner 248 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: held a kind of fire sale, selling Jack Atari's consumer 249 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: division and handing over the company's property, filing cabinets, chairs, desks, 250 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: even entire buildings. It all happened very quickly, but the 251 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: new leaner Atari didn't need so much stuff. Buildings had 252 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: to go, space had to be consolidated, and so did employees. 253 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: It was possibly the darkest chapter in Atari's long history. 254 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: In Hallway after Hallway, where star programmers like Todd Fry 255 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: once ran up and down and smoked incredible amounts of weed, 256 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: there was just silence in side offices. People had left 257 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: so abruptly that they had left monitors on gone in 258 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: mid assignment. It was like the rapture had hit Atari, 259 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: with most people disappearing completely out of sight. Here's an 260 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: example of the confusion. The lack of inventory keeping was 261 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: so profound that it wasn't until months later that one 262 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: Atari employee discovered Atari owned a large warehouse full of BMW's. 263 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: These were very expensive cars that were leased for upper management. 264 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: They were told to drop off the cars, which were 265 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: packed in so tightly that some workers had to crawl 266 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: out of the warehouse window to get out. An entire 267 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: fleet of company vehicles were left to collect dust, virtually forgotten. 268 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: If that could happen to cars, what could happen to 269 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: some contest prizes. Here's another thing about Atari. At this time, 270 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: there was a lot of employee turnover. Marketing. Employees with 271 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: knowledge of the contest were out the door. Atari's new 272 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: management knew about sword Quest, they had to address it, 273 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: but they may not have known about the prizes until 274 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: they went missing. Along the hallways of a Atari were 275 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: stacks of computers, printers, keyboards, files, and plenty of employees 276 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: just wandering through, some of whom seized an opportunity to 277 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: grab some work from home supplies despite their employment status. 278 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: It wasn't as though Atari fired everyone. It's just that 279 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: most employees weren't part of the sale and weren't being retained. Actually, 280 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: let's just be blunt. There was employee left during the transition, 281 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: mostly office equipment. This chaos went on for days, for 282 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: over a week, stuff being wheeled out, people being ushered out, 283 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: papers being shredded. No one aware that BMW's were just 284 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: sitting around, and possibly no one noticing that a bundle 285 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: of very expensive prizes were in the hands of a 286 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: disgruntled employee, one who was being unceremoniously dumped in an 287 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: effort to trim down costs. It could have gone under 288 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: someone's coat or in a filing cabinet. Here's Todd Fry. 289 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 4: I don't know how much the prize that exists and 290 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 4: known as so I wouldn't be surprised if a couple 291 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 4: of them disappeared in inventory shrinkage. And I'm saying I 292 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 4: wouldn't be surprised if someone melted them down and you know. 293 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 5: Bought drugs. 294 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 4: It's like down payment of a house back then. Actually, 295 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 4: it's alcurely really shocking. You could like buy a car, 296 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 4: put yourself through college. It's been done. I wouldn't be 297 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 4: surprised if a couple of them just straight up disappeared 298 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 4: to conversion. I would be relatively surprised if someone had 299 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 4: them and was hiding them. 300 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: The Great Atari Exodus of nineteen eighty four could have 301 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: seen the remnants of sword Quest disappear forever in someone's trunk, 302 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: in a safe that was wheeled out on a dolly, 303 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: in a warehouse that no one even knew existed. Isn't 304 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: that how most of history is lost, not by purposeful neglect, 305 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: but by the passage of time and the changing of 306 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: the guard. No one was responsible for guarding those treasures, 307 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: and it's possible someone simply plundered them. 308 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 4: What a strange thing to have is part of my history. 309 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 4: I don't think about this that often, but I made 310 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 4: that sword come into existence through an act of manifestation. 311 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 4: I thought grail Quest sort of sorcery Franklin meant, and poof, 312 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 4: there was sixty thousand dollars precious metals and stones, and 313 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 4: it is out there somewhere. It may have been disassembled 314 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 4: for cash, but somewhere out there is this product of 315 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 4: my imagination weird. 316 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: At least the other product of Todd's imagination, air World 317 00:19:49,119 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: had been found, hadn't it? Ken was frustrated. He decided 318 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,479 Speaker 1: to take another look at the message Todd fry had 319 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: posted in support of this mythical air World find. This time, 320 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: he looked more closely at the return email. It was 321 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: your standard letter number combo. When he searched for it, 322 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: he found it was mentioned in another post, this time 323 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: along with the email used by the ebayseller Jeremy. 324 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: When I first saw the posting was signed you know 325 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 2: a Fry, thought, did he actually say this? It's really 326 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 2: tough to know. And then I did some more digging 327 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 2: and I found the email address that posted that. That 328 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 2: email was linked to Jeremy's other account. Didn't take too 329 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 2: much digging to find that, And then I posted that saying, Okay, 330 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: he's faked the email, which just so happens to describe 331 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 2: this prototype he has, so it gets deeper and everyone's 332 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 2: coming out of the woodwork on it. We got Todd 333 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 2: Frye even looked at the photograph and said, no, that's 334 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 2: not our world. 335 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: The seller was being confronted virtually anyway, with overwhelming evidence 336 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: he had faked the whole thing, the game, the email 337 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: from Todd Fry, the screenshot. He acted surprised, He apologized 338 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: and vowed to find out what might have happened. He 339 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: asked that Angry Collectors didn't use any more foul language. 340 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: He didn't, of course take any responsibility. He had been 341 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:30,959 Speaker 1: a victim too. 342 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: He never admits that it's fake. He's he's thinking if 343 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 2: it's a fake, that he's a victim too, because he 344 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 2: bought it from somebody that they obviously faked it, but 345 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: he would never let any of us examine it. And 346 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 2: the photo of the character was always crainy. I mean, 347 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 2: everybody was thanking me for outing him for faking that email. 348 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 2: That was just like the final straw. And then he 349 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 2: also he made a second account on atari age to 350 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 2: be a friend of him, who is the engineer who 351 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 2: set up the graphics workstation that took the pictures. And 352 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 2: then Albert, who was the moderator of atari Age, found 353 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 2: out that both those accounts originated from the same IP 354 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 2: address in the same physical location. He was trying either 355 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 2: to raise the value of his bs or something. He 356 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 2: disappeared around two thousand and four and we haven't heard 357 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 2: from him since. 358 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: Even now, Ken isn't sure what the seller's endgame was. 359 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: Has he programmed the game so anyone buying it would 360 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: be fooled into thinking it was air World? Would he 361 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: simply insist it must have gotten even. 362 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 2: Glitchier make some money at someone else's expense. And at 363 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: the time, eBay did not have the protections they have now. 364 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 2: If you pretty much can't get scanned on eBay now, 365 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 2: But back then, once the buyer paid his money and 366 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 2: the seller showed a tracking number or a shipment, eBay 367 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: was off the hook. 368 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: When Airworld was revealed as a fraud, it was a 369 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: total bummer for the Atari collecting community. Here was hope 370 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,719 Speaker 1: something lost had been preserved and recovered. Only the it 371 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: was an impostor if you're a completist, someone who wanted 372 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: to see the series finished, then it was almost maddening. 373 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 1: But think about movies or books for a second. Sometimes 374 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: authors or filmmakers leave behind unfinished works. Sometimes creators don't 375 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: get a chance to have their full vision realized. Orson 376 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: Wells didn't have the money to finish his Opus The 377 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: Other Side of the Wind, but another director, Peter Bogdanovitch, 378 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: helped complete it. Decades later, Frank Herbert couldn't keep writing 379 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: Dune books because Well he died, so his son Brian 380 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: took up the mantle. In video games, some players become 381 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: programmers and their hobby becomes more participatory. So, following the 382 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: Great air World scandal, Ken van Muzbergen decided to become 383 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: the Bogdanovich to Todd fryes orson Wells, he decided he 384 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: would complete air World. He had been planning on a 385 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: home brew or homemade game for a while. 386 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 2: Then I was thinking to myself, Okay, what game should 387 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 2: I do? So I had to look back and think, okay, 388 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 2: sword quests Airworld never came out. 389 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: Ken reached out to Todd, the real Todd for advice. 390 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 2: Hey told me the air World was based on the 391 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 2: Eaching because all of the short quest games were based 392 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: on something. Earthworld was on the zodiac, Fireworld was the 393 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 2: Tree of Life, and I forget what Water Word was 394 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 2: based on, but it was it was something similar in 395 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 2: those veins. So Airworld being, you know, the Philosopher's Stone 396 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 2: was your prize that the e Ching was chosen as 397 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 2: the basis, and the different trigrams and there's sixty four 398 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 2: different texagrams and then things of that. 399 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: This was a radical undertaking. Precious little of the game 400 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: had been made, and what there was had to be 401 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: described by others. For another thing, the narrative which had 402 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: been provided I did by DC Comics was canceled right 403 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: along with the game. Ken wanted to see if that 404 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: lost comic had ever been completed. 405 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 2: Like if I'm going to do air World, it has 406 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 2: to have a comic book, because the first three did 407 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 2: and the story was left kind of hanging there. I 408 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: always wondered what happened to those guys. So I got 409 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 2: in touch with Dick Giordano over at DC Comics. He 410 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 2: was still working there. He was the producer at the 411 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 2: time back then of special projects, and sword Quest was 412 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 2: one of those projects they did for Atari because at 413 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 2: the time they were both owned by Warner Communications, and 414 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 2: The Franklin Mint was also owned by Warner at the time, 415 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 2: so that stories of how that connection worked, and I 416 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 2: asked him was the fourth part ever written? Because I 417 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 2: did a little research on how comic books are created, 418 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 2: and usually the story is scripted out first, then storyboarded, 419 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 2: and usually all the parts of the story are done 420 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 2: before they start even beginning on the artwork. So figured, well, 421 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 2: maybe it was boarded and scripted and just never came out. 422 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: No such luck, he assumed there was. It was archived 423 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 2: there somewhere. He couldn't remember the details at all, but 424 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 2: he was going to take a look and let me know. 425 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 2: Well ended up never getting back to me, although I 426 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 2: did also get kind oft with George Perez, who was 427 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 2: the artist for the sword Quest series, and pretty good 428 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 2: art it was, and he told us that no artwork 429 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 2: for air World was ever begun or drawn. He said, 430 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 2: the authors may have done something in platform, but it 431 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 2: never got to the point where our work was required. 432 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: But if Ken could make a game, he could make 433 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: a comic too. 434 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: It ended up happening. Someone did respond to that challenge, 435 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 2: Amy Tait, now now Dingman. She offered to draw the comic, 436 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 2: and I said, peck, yes, let's let's see what we 437 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 2: can do with that. So we had to flesh out 438 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: a story. So me and her we fleshed out kind 439 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 2: of a story where the twins arrive in Airworld, they 440 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 2: wandered around. We noticed the first three stories follow a 441 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 2: certain pattern. They arrive, they get separated, they talk to 442 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 2: Mentorum and Tara, they go onto the quest, they get reunited, 443 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 2: and they ultimately find the prize. Right, so we went 444 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 2: along the same thing, although we had to put in 445 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 2: though the final confrontation because Conjero and Tarrannus are joining 446 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 2: them in air World, and that's going to be a 447 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 2: fight to end off fights in my opinion. But what 448 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 2: I ended up happening in the plot for mine for 449 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 2: ours actually was that they would get separated in battle 450 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 2: and Tara would face Conjiro and Toora would face Tyrannus 451 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: in one on one combat, and that Tara would definitely 452 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 2: be overmatched against Conjero. He's a very powerful sorcerer, but 453 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 2: Taranna's and tor could pretty much go even. So we 454 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 2: had to work that in there somehow, and we thought, okay, well, 455 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 2: Tara can be holding her own and dodging, but she 456 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 2: has to come up with some magical object that would 457 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 2: even the odds for her and be able to defeat Conjero. 458 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 2: So our theory was Herminus is still involved here, and 459 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 2: he finally decides whose side he's on, and he helps 460 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 2: Tara by giving her this object like tossing a turn 461 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 2: in the midst of battle and distracts Kunjero for him 462 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 2: for a moment. On the other side of air World, 463 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,479 Speaker 2: you have Tyrannus and tor battling it out, and it's 464 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 2: got to the point where Torre has Tyrannus hanging off 465 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 2: a cliff where he's going to fall to his doom. 466 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,479 Speaker 2: But even Tor is not going to kill Tarannus, so 467 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 2: he offers to help him up. But of course, what 468 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 2: does Tyranna's do. He grabs his hand, tries to pull 469 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 2: Tor over as well. And that's what we had there, 470 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: which I thought was a pretty good story, and that's 471 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 2: probably where it stood at that point. We had a 472 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: basic outline of what we wanted to do, and when 473 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 2: we see if we can actually get it done. 474 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: In a sense, the sword Quest saga was Ken's to finish, 475 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: not in any official way, mind you. Unlike the eBay seller, 476 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: Ken wasn't pulling any kind of fast one on the community. 477 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: A World was transparently a fan effort, something to satisfy 478 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: those who wanted a complete set of sword Quest games, 479 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: but it would still come in a box, in a 480 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: cartridge and with a comic. All Ken had to do 481 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: was find the right programmer, one ideally suited to an 482 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: Atari Homebrew. 483 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 2: And more help arrived in the form of Ryan Campbell, 484 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 2: who was a programmer who basically took the skeleton that 485 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 2: I had written and added more stuff to it and 486 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: actually got it where we had rooms and objects and 487 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 2: a character that could run between the rooms. We actually 488 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 2: had it a basis skeleton of a program there, and 489 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 2: it was coming along. 490 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: The community reaction was positive. Air World seemed like it 491 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: would be moving forward. Then in two thousand and two, 492 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: Ken encountered his first hiccup. 493 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 2: But then Ryan disappeared. He ghosted me, yes is the 494 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 2: term you'd use now? And I don't know what happened 495 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 2: to him, and I knew it and complete without them. 496 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: This was a bumpier road than Ken had anticipated, and 497 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: there was an even bigger issue at play. Fan fiction 498 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: can run into copyright issues with the original manufacturer. Some 499 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: treat it as a part of fandom. Lucasfilm, for example, 500 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: has long champions Star Wars fan films, while Paramount tends 501 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: to be very strict about Star Trek fan films. Though 502 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: it had changed hands several times over the years, Atari 503 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: was still the rightful owner of sword Quest, and Ken 504 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: began to get a sense that they may not be 505 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: totally on board with his homebrew project. 506 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 2: I rightly don't blame him, because if you don't protect 507 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 2: your property, you're going to lose it. I mean, you 508 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: have to protected. Now. Our product was not on sale yet. 509 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 2: That's probably why I didn't get anything directly. There are 510 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 2: some friends of mine who are producing homebrews of Atari copyrights, 511 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: and they were getting seasoned desist letters, season desist, copyright infrigement, 512 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 2: trademark dissolution, whole bunch of nasty evil stuff. So at 513 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 2: that point, like, well, we're kind of struggling now anyway, 514 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 2: why not just shut it down for a while, And 515 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 2: that's what we did. 516 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: So in two thousand and two, Ken announced there wouldn't 517 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: be an air World. That was, if we're keeping count, 518 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: the third time the game has been declared missing. But 519 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: for Ken, the project had the same effect as his collecting. 520 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: It was something that had helped him come to terms 521 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: with his mother's illness. She had gotten ill in nineteen 522 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: ninety six. The air World saga Good and Bad came 523 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: in the wake of what happened. 524 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 2: Next to take your mind off the inevitability of what 525 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 2: was going to occur. As would turn out, she would 526 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: only live for an her two years. She passed away 527 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety eight. 528 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: Ken's Airworld failed to take flight. But did it matter 529 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: The work itself, even the work of debunking the fake game, 530 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: had occupied his mind, and it helped. You're likely wondering 531 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: why wouldn't Todd Fry simply finish the game. It's complicated. 532 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: For one thing, it's not really commercially viable to make 533 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,719 Speaker 1: a game for an extinct gaming console. For another, it 534 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: can't be hard to go back and replicate how those 535 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: games were made. It's not unlike going back to the moon. 536 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: It's not that NASA forgot how. It's just hard to 537 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: retrace your steps. 538 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 4: You know, it's hard. Look, the fact of the matter 539 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,719 Speaker 4: is that Airworld is my brain child. A sword Quest 540 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 4: is my brain child. Only I can do air World. 541 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 4: You can do a bunch of things that are eaching 542 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 4: informed Atari to twenty six hundred adventure games, but it 543 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 4: won't be air World unless I do it. You can 544 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,959 Speaker 4: call it whatever you want, and Atari gets to call 545 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 4: it as a trademark owner gets to call it whatever 546 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 4: the heck they want. I've thought about making an air 547 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 4: World cartridge, but boy, it is way too much work. 548 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 4: I've gone back and done Simtari twenty six hundred coding. 549 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 4: It is so hard. I forgot how hard it was. 550 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 4: I mean, you can say, oh, yeah, that was really hard, 551 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 4: but I remember the fun parts. I don't remember the intense, 552 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 4: amazing tedium. There is a reason that we smoked pot. 553 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 4: It was hours and hours and hours of incredibly hard work, 554 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 4: incredibly tedious, detailed, unforgiving, relentlessly difficult, mind numbing work. It's like, 555 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 4: oh my god, And that sounds I'm grinning when I 556 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 4: say this, because that sounds like a good time, doesn't it. 557 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: Like most everyone familiar with the sword Quest saga, ken 558 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: Vin Murzbergen has a theory on where the prizes may 559 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: have ended up. In fact, as an Atari historian himself, 560 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: he's looked into it. Like some collectors. He believed the 561 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,479 Speaker 1: Franklin mint which made the prizes, took them back and 562 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: melted them down. We mentioned this in the last. 563 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 2: Episode, probably gone yeah, from the research we had done. 564 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 2: I just don't believe they exist. Please prove me wrong 565 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 2: out there, but I don't think they exist. 566 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: There's a kind of trinity of theories that have endured 567 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: over the years. One is that the prizes were returned 568 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: to the Franklin Mint, then melted down for their material value. 569 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: That's what Ken thinks. Another is that someone at Atari 570 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: walked out with the prizes during its transfer of ownership 571 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four. The third and most pervasive theory 572 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: is that they never disappeared at all. They were just relocated. 573 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, a number of former Atari employees came 574 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: together for a tech convention. They fielded all of the 575 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: usual questions. Then a kid stepped up to the microphone 576 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: and got real. He asked them if they knew what 577 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: had happened to the sword question surprizes. Former Atari employees 578 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: got this question a lot, and the panel gave the 579 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: usual answers. Could have been an employee, could have been 580 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: an inventory oversight. But then, as one member of the 581 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: panel was talking, someone in the audience spoke up and 582 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: offered a name. Tremmel, a name that comes up over 583 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: and over in sword quest lore. A man who loomed 584 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: almost as large in gaming history as Mario, someone who 585 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: scared some people and who even considered buying Apple. It's 586 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: time to meet the man who conquered Atari, and who 587 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: may have held the sort of ultimate sorcery up in 588 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: victory after he canceled the contest. 589 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 3: Oh, it's impossible, it has to be a lie. 590 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 2: Ha ha. 591 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 3: Foolish children, your search for the sword has led you 592 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,040 Speaker 3: to me. I am the king, and the king he 593 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 3: must have his crowd. Tod decarve you both up like 594 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 3: a holiday. 595 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: Ham a, that's next time on sword Quest. 596 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 5: The Legend of sword Quest is a production of iHeart 597 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 5: Podcasts and School of Humans. This episode was written by 598 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 5: Jake Rosson and hosted by Jamie Loftus producers are Miranda 599 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 5: Hawkins and Josh Fisher. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, L. C. Crowley, 600 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 5: Brandon Barr, and Jason English. Our show editor is Mary Doo. 601 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 5: Audio engineering by Graham Gibson, Research and fact checking by 602 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 5: Austin Thompson and Jake Rosson. Original score by Jesse Niswanger. 603 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 5: This episode was sound designed by Jonathan Washington, with additional 604 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 5: editing by Josh Fisher. Mixing and mastering by Miranda Hawkins. 605 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 5: Show logo by Lucy Kintonia. Voices in this episode are 606 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 5: provided by Josh Fisher, Hayley Ellman, and Graham Parkard.