WEBVTT - Is Crypto's Market Value Real? 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.840 This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I heard podcast 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:09.440 and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmel, managing editor of Crypto for 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:27.360 Bloomberg News. It's Wednesday, September one. This crypto winter is 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.840 still blowing cold and it's not clear when, or even if, 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:35.280 a so called spring will arrive and stick around. It's 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.320 also evident that crypto has been hit very hard. Another 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.560 bad week for Bitcoin. The cryptocurrency has continued to slump, 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.280 and it could be a precursor of more pain to come, 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.320 according to some strategists watching the sell off. And it's 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:50.440 a really interesting gauge because when you put it alongside 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.319 the Bloomberg Gaxy Crypto Index, you can see that kind 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.760 of symmetry in the way they've moved. Where do we 0:00:55.800 --> 0:01:04.520 go from here? These losses have affected the entire CRYPTO ECOSYSTEM, 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:09.039 from hedge funds to lenders to countless individual crypto investors. 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.880 By most calculations, two trillion dollars worth of value, that's 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.400 trillion with it he has been wiped off of this market. 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.479 It's estimated that before the winter, the total market value 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.680 of crypto assets worldwide stood around three trillion dollars. That's 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:29.720 a sizeable chunk. But how is this figure market value 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:34.320 calculated and how representative, if at all, is it, of 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:38.920 Crypto's actual economic value? On today's show I'll talk to 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:41.600 Bloomberg reporter of Aldana Harrick. If you were going by 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.880 the market cap figure, it was three chillion back in 0:01:44.920 --> 0:02:02.120 the fall of about this increasingly disputed metric. Lanna, you've 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.960 been writing, along with all the other markets that you cover, 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:09.120 a little bit about crypto and specifically around the ways 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.919 in which people try to assess CRYPTO's value. Yeah, this 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.239 this is an interesting rabbit hole that we went very 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:20.080 deep into thanks to one of my editors at Bloomberg 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:22.160 Business Week who had been thinking. He loves to think 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.440 about these big, Grand Meta ideas, and he had been 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:30.680 wondering about cryptocurrency market cap because it's something that we 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.720 quote so very frequently. So if you remember back last year, 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.200 when crypto prices were at, hovering around their all time highs, 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.880 what a lot of people were saying at the time 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:45.800 is that the crypto market value was around three chillion dollars. However, 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.639 we wanted to know if that actually was a very 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:53.240 good representation for, you know, what the crypto market is 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.640 actually worth. And if you think about what market cap is, 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:58.880 market cap is just the number of coins that are 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:02.800 out there, multiple by the last price. And but there's 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.200 a lot of coins and there's a lot of very 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:10.079 fraudulent projects out there and lots of coins that maybe 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.919 have gone so called dormant, where they haven't moved or 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.480 haven't been used in five or more years sometimes. And 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:19.840 so do you want to be including that in your 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.120 calculation or not? There's just there were a lot of 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.799 little factors at play and so we really wanted to see, okay, 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.519 if is it three chillion, and if it's not three chillion, 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:34.160 what might it be? So what is it? Well, the 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.400 first thing I did was I wanted to get a 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.480 sense of how many people actually use cryptocurrencies. I looked 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.440 at the US, because it's very, very difficult to get 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.720 global data for something like this, but they were actually 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:51.160 two very useful surveys out. One was from the Fed 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:55.800 that said something like twelve of US adults use or 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:00.560 interact or trade cryptocurrencies and another bipus at six percent, 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:04.360 and so that's something like fifty three million people, which 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.160 really isn't insignificant. And so that was the very first 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.360 step I took, just in trying to figure out, okay, 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:13.360 how many people actually were interacting or knowing about Crypto, 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.440 especially in the US, especially at the highest last year, 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.000 and from there, where did the rabbit hole take you? 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.800 Then I talked to a crypto skeptic and I knew 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.960 he was a crypto skeptic. It was David Gerard he 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.200 he tweets a lot about Crypto, he has his own 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:30.880 blog and he writes a lot about crypto and I 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.680 just wanted to pose to him the question is market 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.520 cap actually a good way of measuring crypto market value? 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:41.000 And immediately he said No. He used a curse word 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.880 which we won't repeat, but he said it's basically just 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.400 all made up numbers and he cited some of the 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.800 things we were just talking about, including that there's just 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:51.720 a lot of projects out there are coins that are 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:54.080 floating around out there that you might not want to 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.320 be including in your calculation. What did he suggested? Stud 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.240 he actually suggested that I look at flows into and 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.520 out of exchanges, which is very difficult to do because 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.000 the exchanges have to share information with the changes love 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.560 to share information with journalists. Yeah, they love it no. So. 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.440 So basically, he after he told me that, I call 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.960 a bunch of other researchers, some actually at the Cleveland Fed, 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:20.160 and one of them was like no, this will be impossible. 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:24.440 So it was not. It was not a good start 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.520 at first, just finding out that okay, crypto market CAPP 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:31.160 maybe is not a good way to be measuring the market, 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.760 and then also to just sort of hit this dead end. 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:39.680 But I continue talking to people. So, before we go 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:41.880 into the ways in which you avoided the Dead End, 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:44.880 are there folks out there you know? Because like, skeptics 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.760 going to skeptic and booster is going to boost. So 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.040 who are the folks in the middle who are like, well, 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.160 here are other ways, you know, not just the data 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.200 from exchanges. What were some of the other ways that 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:58.320 folks might have suggested made sense in this assessment that 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.120 you were trying to do? So this is why I 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.960 wanted to talk specifically with crypto researchers or even there's 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.960 crypto economists. So I wanted to talk to companies that 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:11.320 I knew sift through data. Our track data really well. 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.880 I talked to somebody at Genesis and she had told 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.479 me to look at something called free float, which is 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.200 the number of coins in circulation, but you actually subtract 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:26.240 out like foundations and nonprofit groups, and that sort of 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.960 gives you you know, she said market cap actually isn't 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.200 such a bad way of looking at things because it 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:38.440 helps you account for speculation and speculative froth. But that reading, 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.360 this free float reading, gave us a reading of seven 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:46.160 and eighties seven billion, so very different from three trillion. 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.000 And I mean, of course, at the time that you 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.440 started doing this. So when you know the story published 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.240 the markets itself by that market cap value declined a 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.760 lot because the prices were falling. It's all so evident 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.280 that crypto has been hit very hard since its peak 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.880 in November. It has lost forty of its value, wiping 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.480 out more than five hundred seventy billion dollars. Overall. The 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.600 crypto market has lost nearly two trillion dollars in market 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.920 value since last November. So were you comparing the sort 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.920 of closer to one trillion value to that, you know, 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.240 just under eight hundred billion, like what were the what 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:28.000 were the apples and apples comparisons? The market did decline 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.520 quite a bit from those highs that we reached back 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:33.800 in November. So if you were going by the market 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.360 cap figure, it was three trillion back in the fall 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:41.640 of much closer to one trillion now. So we were 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.560 really trying to compare to numbers that you would have 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.800 seen at the peak. That number, that free float number, 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.960 was actually compared to that three trillion. So it was 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:52.760 like this was the free float at the time when 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:56.360 Bitcoin was hitting. Yeah, and for the most part, because 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:57.960 I ended up talking to a bunch of other people 0:07:58.000 --> 0:07:59.960 who have been Gav me other readings to look at, 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.800 they also were giving me numbers of their specific readings 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:09.560 for the peak back in and maybe what those numbers 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.880 look like now. And actually some of these readings, the 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.160 free float and some some of these other ones that 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.760 I'm sure we'll go into next, they all were hovering 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:23.320 around eight hundred billion or so, and so the readings themselves, 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.840 the free float or realized value, is another one that 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:31.120 I looked at. They don't fall as dramatically as prices 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:35.559 or the market cap figure because they're already discounting the 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:42.520 froth or the speculation. Interesting. So just to recap what 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:46.080 you're saying, there's this kind of big headline number that 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.000 a lot of folks including US here. A bluemerket paid 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.800 attention to, which is, you know, the bitcoin's peak, at 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.040 Crypto's peak. You're looking at a three trillion dollar market. 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.280 What you're saying is that various other metrics are somewhere 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.920 closer to an eight hundred billion ish number in that 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.400 same period when everything was, you know, maximum froth, as 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:12.480 it were. What explains the difference between those metrics and 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.719 that three trillion? Is it mostly that speculative activity, or 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.120 are there other factors involved? I think for the most 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.320 part we were just trying to account for the speculative 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.800 activity or the froth or the number of loans or 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.200 the leverage that was out in the system. So they 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:30.480 realized value figure. That's another one we looked at. That 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.360 one actually came up the most out of all the 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.840 people I spoke with. It just kept coming back again 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.880 and again. Vildana, what is the realized value? Okay, so 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.680 realized value it's the prices the coins actually fetch in 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:48.320 their most recent transaction versus market value, which is the 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.160 sum of the value of stuff that's out there, and 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.680 so I suppose it's just a better way to be 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.840 thinking about. Okay, what price a coin might fetch, so 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.640 to say. So it's the last bid exactly effectively, exactly 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.320 for realized value. I spoke with somebody at glass node 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:09.640 and glass node is pretty well known in the Crypto 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.880 community because they track so much data on this ratio 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:16.040 that they have, is called M v R V. It's 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:21.360 market value versus realized value. That ratio in November of 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.839 at the peak of crypto prices, hit three point two, 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:31.080 which means that the market value was three times the 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:34.360 realized value exactly. So you take the three trillion, you're 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:38.040 divided by three point two and you get a reading 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.520 around eight hundred seventy five. Obviously it's gonna these numbers 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.320 are going to to vary, but you get a reading 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:49.360 around eight hundred seventy eight hundred eighty billion, and that 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:54.160 number also just doesn't change as much as the market 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.280 cap figure would, where you're including all the price that 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.760 clients for their different coins. I want to make a 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:01.880 Qui note when we when we talk about market cap, 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.920 because I have had some o g markets editors and also, 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.120 you know, people on the Internet, points out that capitalization 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:13.240 is a concept that historically really works best when you're 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:17.920 talking about companies with, you know, shares and like floats 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:22.240 and is a little bit less robust when analogized to 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.319 something like token prices. Do you think it's like a 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.920 big deal? I mean when folks get you know, we're 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:30.600 in an industry in which there's a lot of jargon, 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.040 there's a lot of nomenclature, there's a lot of obsession 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.720 about this is the one true metric. Is there really 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:38.840 a one true metric or one true way of describing 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:40.840 everything that's happening on do folks need to just get 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.960 comfortable with nuance? I think we were trying to break 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.720 the idea that there is this one true metric, because 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.120 the market cap figure really is something that you just 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.440 kept seeing over and over. I remember making news when 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:58.839 the overall crypto market cap reached to trilling. Well, first 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.319 one trillion and to trill and then neared three trillion 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.600 at the end of last year, and so I think 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.959 we really wanted to just dispel the notion that you 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.720 should just be using this one measure when really there's 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:14.840 a couple of as we point out in the story, 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.880 different ways to try to show the true the so 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.240 called true value of Crypto. We'll be right back with 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.360 more from Villa Donna about the methodology for calculating crypto 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:41.439 market value, even if crypto does have a ton of potential. 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.200 You know, what are those folks, the most optimistic among them, like, 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.520 what are they expecting it to get to? That, I think, 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:53.240 depends largely on how the market is moving. So last 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.880 year one, and also in two, one, prices for skyrocketing. 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.160 You had a lot of price targets for big one 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:04.480 in particular, that we're genormous. I think that's the best 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:06.560 or or higher. I think there were some that were 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:11.160 two hundred fifty thou so. So when when prices are 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.000 rising and you have people just really excited and they're 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.480 in this mindset of okay, things are just going to continue, 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:19.520 like look at what we've done over the last two 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.520 years alone, it's going to continue going this way, I 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.960 think that's when you have people obviously most bullish and 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.520 they're expecting the market to just grow and grow and grow. 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.120 It's very different this year. Prices aren't doing as well, 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:37.559 so people have been sort of more restrained. More restrained, 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:41.959 you don't really hear so many price targets, but or 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.520 you don't hear about as you don't have as many 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.240 people coming out with notes or research saying okay, this 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.160 is a good price target for a bitcoin to reach, 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.800 but it's it's it's hard. I think a lot of 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:57.480 people make the comparison to the gold market, where gold 0:13:57.480 --> 0:13:59.840 has been around for I don't even know how long, 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:07.400 forever maybe, and that market, its Cryptos, is sometimes thought 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.640 of as digital, digital gold. Yes, exactly. So you're having 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.600 these comparisons between the two where you have people saying, okay, 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.160 it might overtake that market at some point, but really 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.720 it's I think it just depends on how the market 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.960 ebbs in Waynes, which is to your earlier point, kind 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.520 of the challenge with a metric like market value, right, 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:28.520 and that it so much sentiment is wrapped up in 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.440 what that number is and what it means to people. Uh, 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.480 you know, there's a phrase that various folks, including sometimes 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.240 reports is, like to use about like well, what's an 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.640 objective measure, as if there is some source of emagic 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.480 number that is removed from any kind of prejudice or 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.880 bias Um that exists. But it does sound to me 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:50.200 like what you're saying is there is fairly broad spread consensus, 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.720 at least among certain types of academics, researches, etcetera, that 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:58.400 this idea of realized value is a helpful if if 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.080 folks wanted to get really attached to an Tkato, that's 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.480 the one they would recommend. Yeah, it really did keep 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.840 coming up again and again. I talked to a researcher 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.520 at UBS, I talked to glass node, I talked to 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.960 chain analysis, which is sort of like forensic crypto company, 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.960 and all of these companies they're tracking data, they're looking 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.040 at all these different charts. So the people I spoke with, 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.040 they all kept bringing up realized value. You do hear 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.000 it a lot in the crypto space. You do hear 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.960 about this measure. It's just it's not something that's as 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:33.320 mainstream as mark, as crypto market cap, but I do 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.240 think that it's a solid way to be looking at things. 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.680 I mean there's a literal website called coin market cap 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:44.120 dot COM, yeah, which is quote it quite a bit 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:47.040 from it and that's, you know, that's often the place 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.000 that people anchor around. So you know, if I, if 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:50.840 I fire up a web browser right now and I 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.760 go to there, it's it's like very it's it's the name. 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.360 It also says, Hey, here's like today's market Cap, twenty 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.920 four volume, today's cryptocurrency prices by market cap. What would 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:08.760 take for realized value? Dot Com, should we started? Well, 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.320 I think the if you're into crypto and your crypto 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.200 investor and you do have this belief that prices will 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.000 recover from from what's been going on this year and 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.560 you know for alternative they'll keep going higher and they'll 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.520 replace the dollar or whatever, or the goal, the gold 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.320 market or whatever else, then I think the idea of 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.680 being able to say three trillion is just much more 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:35.200 allerting than saying the realized value is billion. It's just 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.440 it's obviously a much bigger figure. It grabs people's attention. 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.840 So maybe realized value won't become a commonplace, mainstream thing, 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.040 only because I think people want to use the bigger number, 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.120 the one that includes all the froth, the one with 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.480 the TA, the one with the T. Yeah, even if 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.720 it's not yet quadrillion. Yeah, it may never be. We'll see, 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.560 but I can easily spend it. On that note, thank 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:01.600 you for Don always a pleasure to have you. Thanks 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:06.919 for having me. You can find more of Bill Donna's 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.040 reporting on the Bloomberg terminal on Bloomberg Dot Com or 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.520 follow her on twitter. She's at Vil Donna Harrick. That 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.560 is v I L D A N E H A 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:23.359 J R. I C on the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto, 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.800 the merge. It's finally over, it's done, it happened, so 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.080 now we're gonna ask what's next, and you'll hear words 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:36.280 like splurge, purge, purge, all things that rhyme with emerge 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:43.080 and that will soon follow. This is Bloomberg Crypto, a 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.560 daily podcast from Bloomberg and I heart radio. For more 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.240 shows from I heart radio, visit the I heart radio APP, 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:53.600 apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Send US 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.480 your comments, questions or suggestions for the show to Crypto 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.680 at Bloomberg Dot net or find us on twitter. We're 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:05.359 at CRYPTO. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Verklina. 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.280 Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Mohammed 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.879 Farup and Sharon Barriro. Our associate producers are ty Butler 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.080 and Moses on them. Desta wonder at is our engineer. 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:21.880 Original Music by Leo Sidran. I'm Stacy Marie Schmall we'll 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:22.560 be back tomorrow.