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Speaker 2: Starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless

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Speaker 2: very difficult to keep the line between the past.

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Speaker 3: And the place.

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Speaker 4: Who believe that someone out of the past, we can

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Speaker 4: enter and take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 3: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 3: is not through with us.

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Speaker 5: Welcome back to the Next Picture Show, a movie of

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Speaker 5: the Week podcast devoted to a classic film and the

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Speaker 5: way it's shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm

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Speaker 5: Tasha Robinson here again.

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Speaker 3: With Scott Tobias Chief Pips.

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Speaker 5: Genevieve Cooski is absent from this pairing in this timeline,

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Speaker 5: but in many other timelines. She did join us for

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Speaker 5: this episode, so if you want to hear what she

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Speaker 5: thought about this pair ringing. Wait, did I already say

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Speaker 5: all that in this timeline? I thought this was the

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Speaker 5: timeline where I saved that gag for this half of

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Speaker 5: the podcast. Oh damn. Multiverses are so confusing. On last

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Speaker 5: week's episode, we talked about Christoph Keithlowski's Blind Chance, one

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Speaker 5: of his early transition points from realistic films about politics

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Speaker 5: to heavy conceptual films about life philosophy. In that film,

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Speaker 5: we see three radically different lives play out for one

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Speaker 5: young Polish man in the nineteen seventies, each depending on

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Speaker 5: whether he successfully catches a given train on a given day.

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Speaker 5: The characters in the film that we're bringing in this week,

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Speaker 5: Daniel Schinert and Daniel Kwan's Everything Everywhere All at Once,

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Speaker 5: have lived out a lot more lives in the branching

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Speaker 5: realities of infinite timelines. The protagonist, Evelyn played by martial

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Speaker 5: arts master Michelle Yeoe, only learns that's true when someone

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Speaker 5: reaches out to her to save the multiverse, which has

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Speaker 5: been threatened by a monstrous evil. Given the thousand domestic

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Speaker 5: problems she's already facing with her lonely husband, her disaffected daughter,

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Speaker 5: her judgmental father, the looming irs audit of the laundromat

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Speaker 5: they run, and her general discontent with life. Being asked

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Speaker 5: to save every possible universe is just another irritating chore

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Speaker 5: to manage until she finds out what that monstrous evil

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Speaker 5: is and the alternate live she gets to tap into

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Speaker 5: if she's going to fight it, I'll be up front

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Speaker 5: here for me at least. This is the most surprising

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Speaker 5: movie since The Matrix in terms of the way it

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Speaker 5: unpacks and fractures reality, and in terms of the way

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Speaker 5: the story unfolds with new comedic or dramatic revelations every

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Speaker 5: few minutes. This movie is a lot, a lot of big,

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Speaker 5: heavy ideas, a lot of silly and breathtaking martial arts action,

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Speaker 5: and just a lot to take in. Given its breakneck

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Speaker 5: pace and its immense ambition. I really recommend seeing it

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Speaker 5: before you listen to us talk about it, because we

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Speaker 5: are not going to be able to avoid spoiling things

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Speaker 5: that are best experienced in the moment. Everything, everywhere, all

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Speaker 5: at once is a pretty unique experience, much like The

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Speaker 5: Daniel's previous feature collaboration Swiss Army Man, which was unlike

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Speaker 5: anything you're ever likely to see on the screen from

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Speaker 5: anybody else. But are people ready to have their minds

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Speaker 5: blown and their understanding of the universe or rewritten around

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Speaker 5: a family drama slash martial arts comedy. We'll talk about

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Speaker 5: that after this break open whow open?

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Speaker 6: W missus wang?

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Speaker 4: Are you with us? I am paying attention.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 5: You may only see a pile of for.

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Speaker 2: Seats, but I see a story.

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Speaker 4: Like I see where this story is going.

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Speaker 2: It does not look good.

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Speaker 3: I'm not your husband. I'm ann a version.

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Speaker 7: If I'm coming as a universe I'm here because we

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Speaker 7: need your help.

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Speaker 8: Very busy today.

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Speaker 3: I'll try to help you across the multiverse.

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Speaker 8: I've seen thousands of events. You can access a lot

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Speaker 8: of the memories of their emotions, even the girls. There's

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Speaker 8: a great evils but it's what the many verses, and

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Speaker 8: you maybe your only chance of stopping it.

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Speaker 2: You I am really good, I don't you.

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Speaker 4: What?

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Speaker 5: So everything everywhere all at once?

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Speaker 6: What do you make of that?

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Speaker 5: Exactly?

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Speaker 6: Guys, it's a lot. It is a lot, as you

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Speaker 6: as you say, no, I'm I I did like it

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Speaker 6: quite a bit, and it reminded me. I saw a screening,

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Speaker 6: you know, a few days ago, out in public at

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Speaker 6: the haunted Landmark Theater of the Damned, you know, And

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Speaker 6: I've seen many sleepy Sunday night screenings at that place

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Speaker 6: where it's being a smattering of other people just sort

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Speaker 6: of glowering at whatever whatever was on the screen.

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Speaker 3: But it was a scene. This is an arthouse multiplex,

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Speaker 3: a pretty nice one too, in the middle of a

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Speaker 3: dead mall.

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Speaker 6: In the middle of it. It's also kind of like

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Speaker 6: an esture, but it's like an Escher painting the design

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Speaker 6: of the design of the place, which actually kind of

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Speaker 6: it kind of suits this movie well in terms of

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Speaker 6: like the general to the place. In any case, it

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Speaker 6: was I would say, you know, from this just random audience,

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Speaker 6: which was quite robust. The film did well, and it

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Speaker 6: was it was pretty very crowded for a Sunday night

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Speaker 6: at the Landmark Theater of the Damned. I don't know

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Speaker 6: if I've experienced quite a reaction to a new movie

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Speaker 6: like that out in the in the wild since since

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Speaker 6: maybe like Being John Malkovich. The critics screening of Being

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Speaker 6: John Malkovich was is what I always remember as being

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Speaker 6: just of just completely you know, of an original film

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Speaker 6: just completely busting up and everything everywhere all at once,

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Speaker 6: has that quality of just of constant surprise, of great

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Speaker 6: boisterous comedy and wild ideas, and you know, it's just

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Speaker 6: you know, I mean, I don't know. It is not

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Speaker 6: the most refined a vision. I think. I think you

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Speaker 6: have to kind of accept that it is going to

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Speaker 6: be a little all over the place, that it's going

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Speaker 6: to be kind of throwing a lot of punches. There's

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Speaker 6: some wobbliness in the pacing, and I think a certain

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Speaker 6: amount of almost kind of a narrowing towards a semi trite,

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Speaker 6: I would say conclusion, though not wholly trite. There's also

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Speaker 6: a lot of lovely things about the way it ends too.

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Speaker 6: I don't know, there's it's just a ton of movie

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Speaker 6: to unpack and one that I feel so woefully ill

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Speaker 6: equipped to talk about after only seeing it once. So

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Speaker 6: I was really happy with this film. What would do

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Speaker 6: you think, Keith?

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Speaker 3: I think it's great. I delighted and seeing it. I

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Speaker 3: gave it four stars of the review, and I kind

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Speaker 3: of wonder if maybe I underrated it. Even that said,

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Speaker 3: I think everything you point out it is it's in

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Speaker 3: some ways a wearying experience. I mean, it's just so much.

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Speaker 3: It's everywhere, everything, everywhere, all at once. It's it's, uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, one idea thrown out you after another, you know,

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Speaker 3: one timeline, jumping from one timeline to the next. You

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Speaker 3: know it is. It is a long film, and I

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Speaker 3: almost kind of wonder if it would have been even

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Speaker 3: more effective, it have been tightened up a little bit. Whatever. Well,

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Speaker 3: these are minor complaints against just as really joyously imaginative

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Speaker 3: and I think thoughtful vision and I think I don't

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Speaker 3: try it to the right word. It does kind of

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Speaker 3: narrow down to all these big questions and all the

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Speaker 3: you know, the multiverse and all the philosophical issues being

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Speaker 3: raised for the film kind of pushed aside to you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to say just say the love is

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Speaker 3: the answer, but there's something to that, but it does

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Speaker 3: in a really meaningful way. I don't know. I'm looking

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Speaker 3: forward to seeing it again. Too much to process in

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Speaker 3: one viewing, but I did enjoy the one viewing I had.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was really curious how it was going to

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Speaker 5: play for me on the second viewing, because I was

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Speaker 5: a little afraid that it, being so much based in

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Speaker 5: surprises and reveals and new information and constant unfolding, that

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Speaker 5: it would dull a little on second viewing. But if anything,

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Speaker 5: I thought it was even more fun the second time through,

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Speaker 5: in part because I got to see it with an

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Speaker 5: audience the second time through, and like that, just like

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Speaker 5: listening to their response, feeling their response. This is a

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Speaker 5: movie that goes with just like break andeck speed from

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Speaker 5: some very silly visual gag to very serious, heavy philosophical

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Speaker 5: moments and then right back again on numerous occasions. But

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Speaker 5: I'm thinking of one in particular, where I got to

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Speaker 5: hear an entire theater bust up laughing and then go

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Speaker 5: dead silent, and then bust up laughing again. A second later,

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Speaker 5: and I just I love that response. But the whole

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Speaker 5: movie is like that. I think it's fascinating the degree

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Speaker 5: to which this movie sparks a kind of like a

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Speaker 5: whiplash response without ever feeling, for me at least, like

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Speaker 5: that problem that we talk about in terms of tonal whiplash.

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Speaker 5: Like these things don't fit together. This is a movie

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Speaker 5: that just wants to have its cake and eat it too,

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Speaker 5: in a thousand different dimensions, a thousand different kinds of cake.

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Speaker 5: And yet for me, it all fits together just like

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Speaker 5: so neatly, so thoughtfully, with so much care. You know,

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Speaker 5: there's big, stupid, crass jokes and a guy in a

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Speaker 5: martial arts fight with no pants on and his chin

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Speaker 5: little area blurred out, desperately trying to stick something up

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Speaker 5: his butt for reasons. And then there's also just like,

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Speaker 5: you know, the philosophy of the existence of humanity and

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Speaker 5: why human connection makes it meaningful, you know, and in

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Speaker 5: the same film, and yet it all worked for me.

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Speaker 5: I think this one was masterful. I think it would

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Speaker 5: take a miracle for this not to end up being

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Speaker 5: my favorite film of the year.

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Speaker 6: Oh wow, So it's that it's that level. Okay, Yeah, No,

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Speaker 6: I can see potentially having that reaction to seeing it

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Speaker 6: a second time, just so you know, because now I

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Speaker 6: kind of know what to expect, though I will miss

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Speaker 6: experiencing some of those moments for the first time and

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Speaker 6: being surprised for them. You know, you could only experience

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Speaker 6: Raccoon Twey the first time once, you know, and you

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Speaker 6: could only experience the genital fight scene. You only experience

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Speaker 6: the Fannie Pack fight scene, which is just maybe my

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Speaker 6: favorite sequence of the whole film in terms of just filmmaking.

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Speaker 6: You can only experience that for once. But I do

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Speaker 6: think there's a lot to sort out here too, and

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Speaker 6: you see it in the I've seen people have such

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Speaker 6: a personal reaction to it. I don't know if you

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Speaker 6: all read Walter Chaw's review of it, you know, it

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Speaker 6: was one that the one of the directors had kind

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Speaker 6: of cited on Twitter as being one that was meaningful

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Speaker 6: to him. But Walter wrote quite a bit about his

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Speaker 6: own story. It was a very very personal piece about

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Speaker 6: his own history as the child of Chinese American you know, immigrants,

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Speaker 6: and his estrangement from his parents and all that stuff

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Speaker 6: kind of came into play, you know, into this, you know,

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Speaker 6: sort of essayistic review and you just see you feel

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Speaker 6: like like it's a film that you know deserves you know,

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Speaker 6: or review of that kind, and is the type of

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Speaker 6: film that would evoke those kinds of emotions in the audience,

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Speaker 6: particularly a specific you know, sector of an honors that

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Speaker 6: might identify it even with it, you know, you know

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Speaker 6: more more than any of us might.

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Speaker 5: I think, in keeping with the the movies, just like

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Speaker 5: immense grab bag of different selections of stuff. It's a

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Speaker 5: story that can be appreciated for its specificity as an

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Speaker 5: immigrant story and I just appreciated in a very universal

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Speaker 5: way as a story about failed potential and disappointments. Evelyn.

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Speaker 5: One of the things that Evelyn is navigating is that

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Speaker 5: she kind of ran away to America. I'm assuming America.

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure. We get a very specific time and place.

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Speaker 3: It's Chicago?

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Speaker 4: Is it Chicago?

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Speaker 3: I definitely? Just like I thought, just doesn't walk in Chicago?

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 5: But okay, are we positive that they didn't somehow like

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Speaker 5: jury rig the digital prints? So just whatever city you're in,

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Speaker 5: that's the city that they came and lived in.

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Speaker 6: That's going to be like, isn't it. You're inventing something

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Speaker 6: that's going to actually happen. They're going to start localizing

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Speaker 6: back drops of movies.

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Speaker 5: I regret to tell you that some aspect of that

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Speaker 5: has already happened with specifically with product placement, like localizing

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Speaker 5: product placement for different.

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Speaker 6: Digital cobies less something less depressing.

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Speaker 3: But I want to talk about how in Dayton, Ohio,

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Speaker 3: there was an edit we built the city that took

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Speaker 3: out the references to San Francisco and edited in references

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Speaker 3: to Dayton, Ohio. And I can't imagine this is the

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Speaker 3: only radio market that did.

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Speaker 6: That, oh.

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Speaker 3: Years ahead of its time. Yeah, there we go.

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Speaker 5: So but my point being that you can appreciate this

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Speaker 5: for for like, very specific messages about what it's like

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Speaker 5: to be like a small business owner, first generation immigrant

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Speaker 5: who thought the land of opportunity was going to be different,

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Speaker 5: who thought like your romance with a certain person was

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Speaker 5: going to be different, who's navigating like parental disappointment from

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Speaker 5: people who expected to be more respected and to have

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Speaker 5: more control of your life than they ended up having.

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Speaker 5: But you can also just take it as like a

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Speaker 5: big universal story about you know, parents and children, about

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Speaker 5: the way parents mess children up without meaning to, about

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Speaker 5: the difficulty of emotionally connectsing in a meaningful way with

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Speaker 5: children when they're in that period, you know, past adolescent

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Speaker 5: rebellion and on into their their own people now, like

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Speaker 5: what is your place regarding them? They're just It strikes

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Speaker 5: me as there being a whole lot of messages here

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Speaker 5: about the choices we make and the choices that we

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Speaker 5: have to drop along the way. The fact that Evelyn

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Speaker 5: is in some ways like the most powerful multiverse traveler

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Speaker 5: there is, specifically because she's failed at so many things.

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Speaker 5: I think it's just like a brilliant little piece of

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Speaker 5: philosophy there. It's explained why it makes sense within the

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Speaker 5: you know, the science fiction of the movie. But the

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Speaker 5: message there is like you in the audience, who may

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Speaker 5: feel like a failure for the things you haven't done,

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Speaker 5: those failures just make you even more powerful. Like that's

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Speaker 5: a that's a pretty kind message.

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Speaker 6: I think, yeah, yeah, And maybe I don't know's there's

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Speaker 6: something about this and maybe the fact that the Russo

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Speaker 6: brothers are involved in producing it, there's something. It almost

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Speaker 6: feels like some sort of reverse engineered version of a

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Speaker 6: Marvel movie or you're trying to like somehow a gateway

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Speaker 6: from the multiplex back into the art house or something

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Speaker 6: that's been designed here. Maybe that maybe that's it of

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Speaker 6: just like you know it, having this, you know, making

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Speaker 6: someone special for the things that they haven't been able

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Speaker 6: to accomplish, that they for their their failure. I mean,

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Speaker 6: that's that's the opposite of Marvel film. Marvel film is

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Speaker 6: about characters who just who discover that they have these

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Speaker 6: incredible gifts that nobody else has. And so this is

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Speaker 6: this also, this whole thing feels like some weird mirror

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Speaker 6: image of that.

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Speaker 3: I forget. Is this the one where Michael Keaton shows

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Speaker 3: up as the Vulture or is that a different movie

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Speaker 3: we saw?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a good one.

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Speaker 5: So while you're while you're making little sarcastic like film references,

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Speaker 5: I want to just kind of take a moment to

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Speaker 5: recognize how many movies this movie references. You know, there's

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Speaker 5: the rakatoony joke, very extended joke that you mentioned, but

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Speaker 5: there's also you know, this a movie that visually quotes

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Speaker 5: two thousand and one of Space Odyssey in a couple

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Speaker 5: of different sequences, one of which is about the formation

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Speaker 5: of an entire kind of like side universe where people

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Speaker 5: have hot dog hands, it's the you know, the big

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Speaker 5: cosmic flash of her multiverse life at the end is

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Speaker 5: also meant to be a direct representation of two thousand

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Speaker 5: and one of Space Odyssey. But this is also a

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Speaker 5: movie that has lines that are effectively very slight shades

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Speaker 5: on I Know Kung Fu and come with me if

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Speaker 5: you want to live. There's the Giant Bagel is basically

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Speaker 5: a Douglas Adams motif kind of thing. The Daniel came

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Speaker 5: to Chicago for screenings and Q and A's and I

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Speaker 5: moderated one at Chicago's River Eased Theater and I had

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Speaker 5: a chance to kind of talk to them, like out

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Speaker 5: in the hallway beforehand, and one of the things they

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Speaker 5: talked about was the earliest version of this movie had

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Speaker 5: a lot more kind of quoting of Charlie Kauffman specifically

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Speaker 5: as a director. There are a lot of influences and

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Speaker 5: a lot of references as well.

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Speaker 6: There's a whole very much a one car Why version

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Speaker 6: of this timeline or whatever in this film too.

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Speaker 5: So I asked them specifically if it was in the

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Speaker 5: mood for love, and they said it's it's not. It's

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Speaker 5: meant to be just one car Why. In general, because

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Speaker 5: I had that same I had the same response.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean Happy Together could be that way.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they said if they, if you ask their cinematographer,

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Speaker 5: they'll get very defensive about how like, no, no, the

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Speaker 5: lighting and the coloration is completely different. It's not just

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Speaker 5: that one movie. Yes, it is unquestionably a one R

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Speaker 5: Y universe essentially.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, right, I mean Wyman has that kind of that

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Speaker 6: tone of the young, elegant look and those sequences that

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Speaker 6: he super does not have the rest of the time.

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Speaker 3: I think the Kaufin influence has still really felt, though

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Speaker 3: I kind of in some ways it sometimes played to

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Speaker 3: me is kind of a rebuke in some ways of

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Speaker 3: Kaufman's more recent films, which are kind of you know,

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Speaker 3: dropped you know, ultimately, you know, filled with the same

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Speaker 3: dark humor and playfulness, but ultimately about just dropping viewers

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Speaker 3: into the abyss and then roll into credits, Whereas I

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Speaker 3: feel like this is a film that really wants to

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Speaker 3: walk you right up to the edge of the abyss

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Speaker 3: and then and then pull you back. I mean almost

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Speaker 3: literally in the whole Bagel thing. But I don't know,

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Speaker 3: it felt like, you know, a film I wanted to

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Speaker 3: acknowledge some of the same, you know, dark absurdities as

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Speaker 3: Charlie Kaufman, but not go there, or at least go

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Speaker 3: to maybe go to a different place than Coffin's more

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Speaker 3: recent films have gone.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's for certain. I think one of the things

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Speaker 5: you can absolutely say about the Daniels' filmmakers is that

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Speaker 5: they're deeply humanistic and they like outrageous comedy. They like subversive,

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Speaker 5: like over the top comedy, they like scatological comedy. But

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Speaker 5: they also just have these these big messages that they

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Speaker 5: want to get across, and they're very idealistic, humanistic messages.

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Speaker 5: I want to talk a little bit more about that,

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Speaker 5: but first we should take a break, so we'll be

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Speaker 5: back right after.

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Speaker 4: This Tomorrow morning. Is knocking stock your fridge?

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Speaker 6: Now?

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Speaker 4: How about a creamy mocha Frappe China drink or a

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00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 4: sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe or a white chocolate mocha,

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00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 4: whichever you choose, Delicious coffee wits, find Starbucks, Rappacino drinks,

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Speaker 4: wherever you buy your groceries.

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Speaker 8: I cannot talk about it.

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Speaker 3: Unless you can help me with my taxes.

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Speaker 4: What is gross necklaces? I know you have a lot

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Speaker 4: of things do you mind?

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Speaker 7: But nothing could postfully madical in this conversation I haven't

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Speaker 7: right now concerning the faith of every single world about

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Speaker 7: infinite multiverse.

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Speaker 3: The respect.

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Speaker 8: My dear Evelyn.

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Speaker 7: I know you with every passing moment you feel you

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Speaker 7: might have mischuggest make something of your life. I'm here

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Speaker 7: to tell you every rejection, every disappointment has led you

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Speaker 7: here to this moment.

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Speaker 8: Don't let anything.

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Speaker 7: Distract you from it.

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Speaker 5: Looking at Shinna and Kwan as filmmaking partners over the

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Speaker 5: course of the years that I've been tracking them, since

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Speaker 5: I first met them at TRIBECCO with kind of some

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Speaker 5: experimental projects they were doing, I just I see the

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Speaker 5: same things coming up over and over again, like the

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Speaker 5: ideas of possibility and just the difficulty of being human

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Speaker 5: but the importance of sticking with it. Did you guys

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Speaker 5: see Swiss Army Man?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't yet. I definitely I meant to. I

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Speaker 3: meant to, and I'm more enthusiaved to watch it now.

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Speaker 5: Scott, what's your what's your take on that movie?

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Speaker 6: I liked it. I think it's I mean, I think

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Speaker 6: there's some you know it is It's audacious and like

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Speaker 6: I mean and again it has you know, it goes

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Speaker 6: really far on the limb, which is which is what

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Speaker 6: this one does as well. I don't think it seems

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Speaker 6: narrower in ambition, and maybe a little bit more of

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Speaker 6: a limited premise. I guess that one feels almost like

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Speaker 6: a throat clearing for this film, don't you think? Or

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Speaker 6: are you no?

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Speaker 5: I absolutely agree with you there For those who haven't

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Speaker 5: seen it, Swiss Army Man has Paul Dano being washed

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Speaker 5: up on a remote island and he has nothing to

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Speaker 5: survive with except the corpse of Daniel Radcliffe, which he

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Speaker 5: comes to find out can be used as a tool

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Speaker 5: in a wide variety of ways.

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Speaker 6: How does it move though?

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Speaker 5: How do you get water as a surfboard? Because his

414
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 5: decomposing body expels so much flatulence that he's basically his

415
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 5: own outboard motor. So Paul Dano and the corpse of

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Speaker 5: Daniel Radcliffe form a fast friendship and have wacky adventures.

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Speaker 5: And it's very much a parody of kind of a

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Speaker 5: specific type of twee indie movie, but just with like

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Speaker 5: the outrageousness level cranked up to fifty. Yeah, but this

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Speaker 5: in the end kind of the same humanistic messages you know,

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Speaker 5: the same ideas about like human connection and supporting and

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Speaker 5: caring about each other that some of those twee indie

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Speaker 5: movies might have. It just comes from a.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm saying, it's like, it's not that distance from

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Speaker 6: a quirky indie movie.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 6: It is very much that. But you're right. I think

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Speaker 6: you're right about their perspective on the world is extremely optimistic.

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Speaker 5: I would say, I would say more hard one optimistic.

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Speaker 5: I would say coming from a place of acknowledging, acknowledging

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Speaker 5: the darkness, like everything everywhere, all once, I think is

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Speaker 5: a very dark movie in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 6: Like kind of it's what it's about kind of coming

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Speaker 6: out of it, and there's a lot of reconciliation and

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Speaker 6: you know, there's good feelings. I think it's it.

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Speaker 3: Takes a while to get there though, and also also

437
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Speaker 3: posits that these familiar riffs that feel like they can

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Speaker 3: destroy a universe actually could, which I think it's kind

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Speaker 3: of a net a need touch.

440
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 5: I saw very early in the film, when the concept

441
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 5: of the multi dimensional evil was revealed, it was just

442
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 5: very clear to me that it was going to be

443
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 5: her daughter, and I thought I was far ahead of

444
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 5: the film and that we were going to spend an

445
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 5: hour plus teasing that, which feels like the way a

446
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 5: Marvel movie would have done it, and instead we find out,

447
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 5: like I don't know what, feels like maybe three or

448
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 5: four minutes later, the film is like, Okay, you're smart,

449
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 5: you figured this out. Let's just do it and see

450
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 5: what falls out from it. And that's one of the

451
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 5: things I love about the Daniels as filmmakers is they

452
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 5: trust to the audience so much to pick up on

453
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 5: all of these tiny little storytelling grace notes that aren't explained,

454
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 5: that aren't spelled out, where you just you see somebody

455
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 5: do something and it's significant, but they don't like bother

456
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 5: to tell you, hey, by the way, pay attention to

457
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 5: this is important. They don't presume that you can't see

458
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 5: these things coming up either. They assume that you're there

459
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 5: and you just kind of want to move on with

460
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 5: the story, and that you can also just take in

461
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 5: everything everywhere all at once. So one of the many,

462
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 5: many reasons I love this movie is just like it

463
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 5: operates like very few movies do. I think Scott Pilgrim

464
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,959
Speaker 5: Versus the World maybe is one being John Macovich might

465
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 5: be another that like operate a breakneck speed but just

466
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 5: completely trust the audience to keep up.

467
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 6: Yeah. I was pleased for that trust as I was

468
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 6: struggling to keep up. So, you know, though I did

469
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 6: like that it didn't feel like work though, I felt,

470
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 6: you know, mentally, like I was really hustling because because

471
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 6: it was just exploding in all different directions that at once,

472
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 6: and it's just it's hard to you know, know the

473
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 6: rules I suppose of a multi verse like this when

474
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 6: those rules appear to be getting written and rewritten, you know,

475
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 6: at every moment. But I think that that's exciting.

476
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 3: It's a little like inception, where you have one scene

477
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 3: explaining how everything works, then three more scenes complicating what

478
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 3: you've already learned, you.

479
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 5: Know, yeah exactly. And in terms of like a film

480
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 5: just kind of completely rewriting the rules of reality and

481
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 5: then immediately running to play in that sandbox, I think

482
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 5: it's pretty mind blowing that sense. Going back to that

483
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 5: idea of tiny details, I called this one out in

484
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 5: my review because I just I loved it so much

485
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 5: as like a tiny little moment that doesn't get commented on.

486
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 5: I've un starter joy if she wants to introduce her grandfather, Gongong,

487
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 5: who's played by James Hong, a man of literally five

488
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 5: hundred movies, going back to before the dawn of cinema itself.

489
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 5: She wants to introduce her grandfather to the idea that

490
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 5: she is a lesbian and that she has a girlfriend,

491
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 5: and her mother, Evelyn, does not want her to do

492
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 5: that because she's afraid that it will upset grandfather. And

493
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 5: when she goes to try to do it anyway, there's

494
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 5: a moment where the two of them are talking and

495
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 5: she reaches over and grabs her girlfriend's sleeves and rolls

496
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 5: them down to cover her wrist tattoos. You know, she's

497
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 5: got some pretty nice ink on her, and it's just

498
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 5: very clear in that moment that, even though they're not

499
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 5: talking about it, one of the things Joy is doing

500
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 5: is like looking at her girlfriend Becky and thinking, this

501
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 5: is something else he's going to judge. This is something

502
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 5: else about you that we need to hide, And it's

503
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 5: not underlined. It's just this moment of clear anxiety and

504
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 5: seeing a bad future and trying to avert it, but

505
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 5: also like an act of self abdignation, like self destruction,

506
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 5: because Joy has tattoos, herself that she hides and is

507
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,719
Speaker 5: going to continue to from her family. I'm wondering if

508
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 5: there's anything in the movie that that you guys saw

509
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 5: that you had that kind of level of respect for,

510
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 5: as like a storytelling note or a character moment.

511
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 3: I'm just thinking about hot dog fingers. I'm sorry that

512
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 3: a really it's a really good question, but I'm just

513
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 3: thinking about hot dog fingers.

514
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 5: I can't believe that the trailers give away the hot

515
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 5: dog fingers. Like I avoided trailers for this like crazy,

516
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 5: and it was a complete surprise for me in the

517
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 5: theater and when I when I saw a trailer afterwards,

518
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 5: I was like, Nope, that's all over the place.

519
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 6: I could watch an entire movie with the rocks. I

520
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 6: could like it just just yea, an entire thing with

521
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 6: the with the rocks that wash, that touch that really

522
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 6: delighted me. But in terms of like subtle touches, maybe

523
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 6: that's maybe that's where the second viewing part kind of

524
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 6: comes in, Tasha, because I felt like I'm just barely

525
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 6: able to kind of like take in this movie. On

526
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 6: one viewing, I did notice the thing that you talked about,

527
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 6: and I think it kind of speaks to something that

528
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 6: again that that Walter had written about in this review

529
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 6: is just just the relationship between different generations within an

530
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 6: immigrant family, about the disappointment and resentment and disconnect from

531
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 6: one generation to the next. Feeling from Evelyn's you know,

532
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 6: an Evelyn's part that she's you know, the joy has

533
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 6: kind of lost to her, that lot that she's kind

534
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 6: of you know, not that she's the country that she's

535
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 6: she's gone to has has taken joy, you know away. Basically,

536
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 6: it's all that's there too, that these sort of intergenerational

537
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 6: tensions that are tied specifically to you know, kind of

538
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 6: the immigrant experience and too, you know, assimilation and that

539
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 6: sort of thing.

540
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 5: One of the big aspects of that immigrant experience is

541
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 5: Evelyn's husband, Wayman, played by Ki Kwan, who longtime film

542
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 5: watchers will remember is Round in Indiana, Jones two, and

543
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 5: Data in the Goonies. He's kind of been in and

544
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 5: out of films, like doing behind the scenes stuff. He

545
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 5: was an assistant director on Wankarwise twenty forty six, for instance.

546
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 5: But I just I found him to be like a

547
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 5: revelation here. He's pretty amazing carrying the emotional heart of

548
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 5: this movie doing some some pretty fun character work, some

549
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 5: pretty fun snut work, and just some some really interesting

550
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 5: code switching in a lot of different situations.

551
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 6: Well, I think he was able to kind of evoke

552
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 6: what we knew about him as an actor before.

553
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 3: You know.

554
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 6: I mean, there is kind of that ingratiating, silly, goofy

555
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 6: quality that he brought to the to Jones at the

556
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 6: Tuble of Doom and to the Goonies that's certainly present

557
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 6: and are kind of dorky fanny pack wearing, you know,

558
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 6: in effectual wayman, But there's so much more dimension to

559
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 6: this character and so many different looks that he's able

560
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 6: to give us. And also he just feels like, in

561
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 6: a way, kind of the heart of the movie, even

562
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 6: though obviously Michelle Yo and Evelyn, I mean, she's she

563
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 6: is the protagonist, but there's so much he feels like,

564
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 6: such a guiding force for all that is kind of

565
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 6: good and warm and decent and yeah in this in

566
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 6: this movie, you know, and then he can give you

567
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 6: just moments of just silliness. He's a very he's a dad,

568
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 6: he's a very much a movie dad.

569
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 3: And someone else pointed someone else pointed out his voice

570
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,239
Speaker 3: still kind of sounds the same too. You know, he's

571
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: deepened a little, but it still has the same inflections

572
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: as when he was a kid.

573
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 5: Oliver our four like major players here, Michelle Yo, Stephanie's

574
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 5: Who as her daughter, Joy James Hong as her father.

575
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 5: All four of them are given these roles where they

576
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 5: have to change personalities and like physical presences and affects,

577
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 5: body language, facial expression, just like over and over, like

578
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 5: different forms of code switching and behavior switching. It's a

579
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 5: very demanding movie for ag and I think all four

580
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 5: of them are fantastic. I think all four of them

581
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 5: are a lot of fun.

582
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, as you said, the premise kind of allows them

583
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 6: to give you so many different looks and and also

584
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 6: you know, I you know, I include Jamie Lee Curtis

585
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 6: among that group two. I mean, she's not part of

586
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 6: that family. But that's a very surprising, you know, and

587
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 6: fun and in the end quite heartfelt performance as well.

588
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: How do you even say it is possible to watch

589
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 3: the entire film and not know as Jamie Lee Curtis? Yeah,

590
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 3: very possible. Yeah what if your panelists here might have

591
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 3: actually done that? Is that right?

592
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 6: Wow?

593
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? But yeah, yeah, you're better than I the voice

594
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 3: was is I don't know. They put it out a

595
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 3: lot of makeup and the voices in the same I

596
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 3: should have known, but yeah, no, I didn't get it.

597
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 5: Oh wow, Yeah, it's surprised. It took me out of

598
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 5: the film a little bit when I first recognized her,

599
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 5: just because I was actually wondering if that was I

600
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 5: did not see the most recent Halloween. I have not

601
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 5: kept up on her her slasher film over, so I

602
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 5: don't necessarily know what she looks like right now.

603
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 6: I'm pretty positive was only a couple of years ago.

604
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 5: Good lord was it? Those were very There were a

605
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 5: very eventful couple of years there, Scott. I don't remember

606
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 5: anything about the beforehand before time. But yeah, she she

607
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 5: also doing physical action and high comedy and like some

608
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 5: very sweet drama. There's a lot of demands placed on

609
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 5: everybody here. However, she does not have to stick anything

610
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 5: up her butt, unlike.

611
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 6: So unlike a couple of gentlemen who uh, I just

612
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 6: to even think about some of the stuff that this movie,

613
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 6: like that specific thing like how how do you even

614
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 6: how do you think about it? And then how do

615
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 6: you execute it? There's a lot of just like really gross,

616
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 6: like just like low humor in this movie, which is

617
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 6: of course, you know, was the big you know hook

618
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 6: with Swiss Army Man too. It's just like we can

619
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 6: make a respectable art house movie out of you know,

620
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 6: some really really low comedy and and you'll respect us

621
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 6: for it, which is which is you know, true of

622
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 6: this film as well, you know, as it was with

623
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 6: Sosami Man.

624
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 5: So one of the things that Daniels are most known

625
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 5: before they made their first feature of movies. We're doing

626
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 5: some very distinctive music videos that also drew very very

627
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 5: heavily on this kind of like transformational special effects. And

628
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 5: probably the most memorable one is Turned Down for What,

629
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 5: which features Daniel Kwan crotch slamming his way through a

630
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 5: series of ceilings and floors and infecting other people with

631
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 5: a sexual rhythm that causes their clothes to fly off,

632
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 5: causes them to hump anything in sight, wildly causes their

633
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 5: breasts to dance independently of each other. There's a lot

634
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 5: of body part humor in their work. If you go

635
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 5: look up their website, they have a lot of their

636
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 5: old music videos and short films, and if you watch

637
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 5: your way through the you will see a lot of

638
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 5: butt stuff, a lot of like low humor mixed with

639
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 5: high philosophy, a lot of special effects goofery like this.

640
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 5: The short film Pockets remains one of my favorite short films,

641
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 5: and also just like a really really outsized experiment in

642
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 5: cheap special effects that are super super effective. But they

643
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 5: have a movie called Interesting Ball in which a cosmic

644
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 5: event happens and causes all sorts of bizarre things to happen.

645
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 5: And one of those things is one of the Daniels

646
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 5: getting sucked up the other one's butt, just in his

647
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 5: entire body slowly disappearing up the other one's butt. So yeah,

648
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 5: a little obsessed with butts, I want to say, come on, Yeah,

649
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 5: I asked them about that at the Chicago Q and A.

650
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 5: I wish I tried to record that Q and A

651
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 5: because I know it would be informative. They're incredibly smart

652
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 5: people who talk in incredibly sophisticated ways about their films,

653
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 5: and they had a lot to say about, you know,

654
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 5: their their love of lowbrow comedy, but also like why

655
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 5: everybody thinks butts are funny? So yeah, there's just there's

656
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 5: a lot going on here in the swing between like

657
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 5: high brow thoughts and low brow humor. But one of

658
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 5: the things that came out in that Q and A

659
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 5: that I thought was really interesting was as far as

660
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 5: the martial arts stuff goes here, like they're not like

661
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 5: martial arts coordinators, they don't know a ton about it.

662
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 5: So they got a fight club from Orange County kind

663
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 5: of run by these two the two guys that end

664
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 5: up as with trophies up their butts, and kind of

665
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 5: turned over a lot of the martial arts action and

666
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 5: coordination to them. They got a bunch of special effects

667
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 5: people who love working in after effects and kind of

668
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 5: handed a bunch of stuff over to them in terms

669
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 5: of like here are some frames, like do fun things

670
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 5: with them, do what you love with them. And there's

671
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 5: a lot of that throughout the film, just kind of

672
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 5: putting things in the hands of people who know know

673
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 5: their work, no what they're doing. And there's like a

674
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 5: bigger community aspect to this film than you might expect

675
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 5: given how coordinated it all is.

676
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 6: Just in terms of it being a giant collaborative process. Yep. Yeah,

677
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 6: I was impressed by the fight sequences. The choreography is

678
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 6: really strong and and compact. I mean, you know, you're

679
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 6: you're really you know a lot of it. All of

680
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 6: it is in the tax office. Is there any Are

681
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 6: there any? I guess there may be some some action

682
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 6: outside of the tax office, but not a lot though.

683
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 3: I thought that was like one place where they saved

684
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 3: some money, was just keeping it all in one location.

685
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, you just blow through cubicles and you know, cork

686
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 6: ceilings and that sort of thing. I thought that was

687
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 6: all well, well well done, and and I think you

688
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 6: can kind of keep it a little bit mess that

689
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 6: you don't have to be slick. And I think, you know,

690
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 6: the one thing that did this, you know, you mentioned

691
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 6: the whole Charlie Coppin thing. One thing that I think

692
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 6: the Daniels there. The look of this film reminded me

693
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 6: so much of the way that Spike Jones's adaptation of

694
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,439
Speaker 6: Coffin's work tended to look. I mean, there's something kind

695
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 6: of unadorned about them, a little bit a little kind

696
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 6: of grimy and gritty and real to sort of offset

697
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 6: the you know, absurdity and and wackiness of the action.

698
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 6: He's not put you know, you know, because I mean

699
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 6: we can see through we could see through a lot

700
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 6: of Spike Jones' music videos that he can put quite

701
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 6: a lot of spin on the ball with his in

702
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 6: terms of style. But I think with Coffin, I think

703
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 6: he kind of understood that he needed, you know, to

704
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 6: to present a kind of a visual counter strategy. And

705
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 6: I feel like that's kind of a defining quality in

706
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 6: this film in terms of the way it's it looks,

707
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 6: in the way that those sequences are staged.

708
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 3: I think it's it's for all the special effects in here.

709
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 3: I think the thing that shares with those Coffin things

710
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: for your reference is the ideas are the special or

711
00:37:58,960 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 3: the real special effects?

712
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 6: And oh ideas are the really thought human emotions. I

713
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 6: thought human emotions are the ultimate special effects.

714
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 3: That's different. That's something different.

715
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 5: Well, that's what I sort of wanted to wrap up

716
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 5: the solo conversation about this film with is like, in

717
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 5: the end, this is a very as I say, it's

718
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 5: a very humanistic film. That's that's built around these big messages,

719
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 5: one of which is just a straight up Kurt Vonnegut message,

720
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,959
Speaker 5: which is be kind to each other. You know, There's

721
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 5: it's fundamentally, life is meaningful because we make connections. Life

722
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 5: is meaningful because we love each other. And the most

723
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 5: important thing is just to be nice, and like, those

724
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 5: are messages that can be very trite, you know, that

725
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 5: can come across as very surfacey. I really feel that

726
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 5: the way this film earns them and expresses them, particularly

727
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 5: with that Rocks sequence, makes them land. But I feel

728
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 5: like that's going to be maybe a bigger divider about

729
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 5: this movie than the butt humor or the the rate

730
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 5: at which it all goes is just like whether the

731
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 5: emotional content in the end lands for individual viewers. So

732
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 5: I'm curious how that treated you guys.

733
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would say that would be kind of an

734
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 6: issue for me a little bit. It lands for me,

735
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 6: which is good. I mean, that's you know, the emotions

736
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 6: of it are earned. However, there is kind of a

737
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 6: narrowing effect to all of it, Like like once all

738
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 6: of the chaos starts to wind down, and once you're

739
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 6: kind of getting into the getting back to these sort

740
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 6: of you know, individual moments, the multiverse contracts and becomes

741
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 6: dangerously close to trite for me towards the end, while

742
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 6: still being kind of affecting. But I don't necessarily want

743
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 6: to commit to that suspicion, you know, because it's a

744
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 6: different vibe. I guess the end then you're no longer

745
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 6: in this place where of constant expansion and discovery. You're

746
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 6: you're really kind of getting down to the emotional nitty

747
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 6: gritty of it. And I don't necessarily want to kind

748
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 6: of kind of condemn the film for being a little

749
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 6: simpler in the end than I expected it to be,

750
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 6: because I don't maybe I'm yeah, maybe my reading is

751
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 6: a little off.

752
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 3: I see what you're saying, but also really admired something

753
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 3: I referenced before, which was if in some ways it's

754
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 3: making the biggest possible story and the smallest possible story,

755
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 3: making them the same scale. I mean, this is okay, Look,

756
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: this is not Ulysses as much as I like this film,

757
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 3: but there's a kind of Ulysses effect too, where like,

758
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 3: you know, you have the grand story of of you know,

759
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 3: of a Greek hero, and you have some guy walking

760
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 3: around Dublin. But you know there's a lot of connections

761
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 3: between the two of them.

762
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 7: Uh.

763
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 3: There, you have to hear this. You know, the universal

764
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 3: is in peril. This mother and her daughter's relationship is

765
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 3: in peril, and there you know, it puts them on

766
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 3: you know, it kind of lets them balance each other

767
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 3: in a way. I think that's really interesting.

768
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like just the emotional heart of this

769
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 5: movie being all the ways this woman has failed herself

770
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 5: and her daughter, leading to gigantic cosmic destruction and a

771
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 5: cosmic destruction that can only be solved by her finding

772
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 5: a way to not fail her daughter. For me, that

773
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 5: does really land. I think Scott was the one that

774
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 5: was talking earlier about how these personal crises that seem

775
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 5: big enough to wreck the world in this case can

776
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 5: wreck the world. And I think that that's a way

777
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 5: of looking at emotional pain that's just very very harmonious,

778
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,959
Speaker 5: very sympathetic, very open to empathy and understanding how people feel.

779
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,399
Speaker 5: And then that ends up being the message as well,

780
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 5: is be open to empathy and understand how people feel.

781
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 5: It's like it's a little fractal concept that just kind

782
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 5: of goes around and around and around in terms of

783
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 5: what the movie is saying and how it's saying it

784
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 5: sort of both being the same thing. So I just

785
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,399
Speaker 5: think that this movie is really special. But I also

786
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 5: think that Keith's reference to the fact that it's a

787
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 5: movie about connections, and I think perhaps we should move

788
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 5: along to connections about this movie and Christoph Kazlowski's Blind Chance.

789
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,200
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790
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791
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792
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793
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794
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795
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798
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799
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800
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 6: Well.

801
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 5: Now it's time for connections. When we bring these two

802
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 5: films together and talk about all the things they have

803
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 5: in common, I feel like the big thing is just

804
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 5: here is just sort of the question between like what

805
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 5: makes us us? You know, what makes us us from

806
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 5: one possibility, the one future, the next, one choice to

807
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 5: the next. And I feel like both of these movies

808
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 5: kind of explore the idea of chance versus choice, and

809
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 5: the idea that the people around us influence us a lot.

810
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 5: Coincidence influences LUs a lot. Maybe there's such a thing

811
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 5: as fate that influences a lot. But both of them

812
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 5: really kind of rely heavily on the idea that you

813
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 5: make choices and each choice leads to a thousand new choices.

814
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 5: And in one case, it's just kind of showing us

815
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 5: three possibilities that are very different from each other, but

816
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 5: all work within kind of the same milieu, the same

817
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 5: time and place that it happens. The other blows it

818
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 5: out to ridiculous proportions and uses it to fuel a

819
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 5: whole lot of nonsense. But I mean, are fundamentally these

820
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 5: both these movies both just kind of about being human.

821
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 5: Is about being linear and making choices, but that means

822
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 5: like a band getting a billion opportunities to be different

823
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 5: at practically every moment.

824
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 3: Yeah.

825
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And one thing one of the things I guess

826
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 6: I thought about with both films is are those points

827
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 6: where things split off? You know, where you know that

828
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 6: those inflection points where where you know and of course

829
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 6: it's in the in blind chance, it's at the in

830
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 6: the the train station, of course, is where where all

831
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 6: the three different possibilities emerge. And here it's like more

832
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 6: than one spot, really, I mean, because you think you know,

833
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 6: I mean obviously it's it's triggered by this audit that

834
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 6: she has. And of course what could be more symbolic

835
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 6: than that of somebody somebody going, you know, getting an

836
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 6: audit of their taxes, getting a having in of course,

837
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 6: an audit of her existence. So there's that, there's this point,

838
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 6: there's this point where as an adult, where she's kind

839
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 6: of where everything is kind of falling apart for her.

840
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 6: That's an inflection point, that's a point of action for her.

841
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 6: And then there and then within that you also have

842
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 6: a point like when she decides to you leave home,

843
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 6: you know, and that's that's something that's handled that we

844
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 6: see circled back to more than once her leaving, her

845
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 6: potentially staying as well, and in all of the choices

846
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 6: and all of the you know what what what how

847
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 6: reality changes based on that specific moment.

848
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I almost get the sense that every is we're

849
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 3: really dealing with quantum physics here, where every choice she's

850
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 3: made almost branches it seems like it branches off and

851
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 3: forms another universe.

852
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 6: You know.

853
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 3: It's almost like you know, with with blind chants, you

854
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 3: get you know, these three pathways and with everything everywhere

855
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 3: all at once, you get like just fractal that gets

856
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 3: more complex with each each layer or something. It's it's

857
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 3: it's a it's sort of a wild running with the

858
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 3: ball from the Blind Chance idea.

859
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 5: I think it's interesting that with Blind Chance, like all

860
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 5: three of his possible futures are pretty buttoned down. You know,

861
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 5: he's he's very much in this time and place and

862
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 5: in the time of life that he's in specifically, like,

863
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 5: he's not going to turn into a man with hot

864
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 5: dog hands based on whether he can catch a train

865
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 5: or not. He's just a you know, twenty something who's

866
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 5: trying to decide who he's going to have sex with,

867
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 5: and who he's going to hang out with, how he's

868
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 5: going to spend his time, like where he's going to

869
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 5: his aim is focus, but in everything everywhere, we get

870
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 5: this message that like if she just made different choices,

871
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 5: if she navigated her interests slightly differently, she would have

872
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 5: been a famous, worldwide movie star, Like I don't know,

873
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 5: Michelle Yoh. I think it's really fun how that possibility

874
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 5: universe like both encompasses one car Y and encompasses like

875
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 5: her actual life as a like a world class celebrity,

876
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 5: but there is just a very different idea of scale

877
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 5: in these two movies in terms of how far you

878
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 5: might go based on the specific choices you make. And

879
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 5: I think one of them is very practical, two very

880
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 5: practical ends, and one of them is very impractical to

881
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 5: very comedic ends. But in the same you know, in

882
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 5: this at the same time, Evelyn sees that other possibility

883
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 5: she could have and becomes a little obsessed with it.

884
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 5: And I can't help but wonder if v Tech had

885
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 5: had the same opportunity to look at his other possibilities,

886
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 5: if you would have become obsessed with like that one

887
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 5: being the good one because of you know, some aspect

888
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 5: of it, and wishing as she does, that he could

889
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 5: like jump into that world, the.

890
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 3: One where he blows up on the plane, though I mean.

891
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 5: Probably not so much.

892
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 6: Well, but I think there's a I mean that's a

893
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 6: crucial difference between the two movies is that, of course

894
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 6: wit Tech doesn't we as the audience, are aware of

895
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 6: these options for him and the way things could have

896
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 6: could have gone, and uh, you know everything everywhere. She's

897
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 6: made aware of these possibilities too. I mean, like like

898
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 6: that that the the things that she now gets to

899
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 6: have access to, which which makes for a much much

900
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 6: different experience. You know, on top of the you know,

901
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 6: there's not a lot, not a lot of kung fu

902
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 6: or hot dog fingers or or or talking rocks or

903
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 6: or anything like that in a blind Chance Blind Chance

904
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 6: in the universes.

905
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 3: We see the universes we see, that is true.

906
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 5: We do not get to see what what it's like

907
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 5: in the universe where v Tech and his various possible

908
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 5: lovers or just rocks sitting around.

909
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 6: What would you take though? I guess as I mean,

910
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 6: I think we can agree that the Daniels have, you know,

911
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 6: ultimately an optimistic view of you know, humanity and and

912
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 6: and the possibilities of being human. But where do you

913
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 6: think Keith Slowski is if you watch a film like

914
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 6: Blind Chance. I mean it is because I don't necessarily

915
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 6: think I fall. I don't feel feel like it's a

916
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 6: holy pessimistic movie Blind Chance, but it's definitely darker in

917
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 6: terms of, like, you know, I don't think any of

918
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 6: the three outcomes for wittech Car is all that appealing.

919
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 3: It feels like he wants you to contemplate it more

920
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 3: than to draw conclusions from it in some ways otherwise

921
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 3: or the only conclusion I can draw from from Bland

922
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 3: Chance is that you know it doesn't matter. You know,

923
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 3: we we our choices don't don't matter in some ways,

924
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 3: or our personality is such that, you know, what we

925
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 3: think of as ourselves is actually just an illusion. And

926
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't I think I'm taking it

927
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 3: further than the film you know, really wants me to.

928
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 3: I think it's more of a let's think about the

929
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 3: cosmic implications of this. But I don't know. He's not

930
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 3: going to tell you. I think the Daniels will tell

931
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 3: you what to think.

932
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 6: That is very fair?

933
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 9: Is not?

934
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, very much a choice that is being offered you.

935
00:49:59,120 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

936
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 5: Dennis Lam, how did this essay for Criterion that's on

937
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 5: the Criterion channel website associated with Blind Chance, where he

938
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 5: talks about like His answer to that question is that

939
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 5: Kislowski is a cynic and that he's expressing his cynicism

940
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 5: about like politics, about connection, about relationships, about maybe choices

941
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 5: in and of themselves.

942
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 4: But I don't know.

943
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 5: At the same time, I think there's also a certain

944
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 5: idealism in Blind Chance that suggests we have the ability

945
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 5: to do a lot to determine our futures, and we

946
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 5: have the ability to make changes based on our choices,

947
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 5: Like certainly that first time through VTech makes a big

948
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 5: difference for that asylum full of protesters. You know, he

949
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,399
Speaker 5: potentially saves a lot of lives there, and we don't

950
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 5: get to see how something like that comes out without him,

951
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,439
Speaker 5: you know, there's no it's a wonderful life moment where

952
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 5: we get to find out what happens to the people

953
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 5: that he doesn't save, that he's not for.

954
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 3: HM them might be right, because that's what I kind

955
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 3: of that's the reading I kind of keep resisting. But

956
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 3: I think my resistance has a lot more to do

957
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 3: with Kazlowski's other work, which I do not see as cynecal.

958
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 3: Not that it's all cheery or or you know, or

959
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 3: or whatever, but it's nothing quite. There's nothing quite this

960
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,479
Speaker 3: uh fatalistic and dark, and in the other Kazoski films

961
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 3: I've seen, it.

962
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 6: Doesn't deal with the explain exploding.

963
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think maybe an interesting thing to navigate in

964
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,919
Speaker 5: asking that question is that Kislowski and Kwan have both

965
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 5: talked about how religious faith was very important to them

966
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 5: but also just a very private thing. Like Kilselowski was

967
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 5: a believer, and I think the way, we see the

968
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 5: second life play out in Blind Chance, where you know,

969
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 5: in the first one, VTech talks about how he doesn't

970
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 5: understand how anybody could follow religion when it's so destructive,

971
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 5: But in the second one, he meets somebody who's strengthened

972
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 5: by her faith and he listens as she talks very

973
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 5: persuasively about what it means to her, and eventually he

974
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 5: takes it up himself. And like, I feel like there's

975
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 5: a very strong Christian thread flowing through Blind Chance that

976
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 5: accept that religion can be a very supportive and helpful

977
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 5: thing for people. And a Quan is also coming from

978
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 5: a background like that, where religion was important to him,

979
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 5: and I think some of the idealism we see in

980
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 5: the Daniels work comes from that belief. That's something we

981
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 5: expressly talked about in an interview he and I just

982
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 5: in terms of how he himself personally navigates that struggle

983
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 5: between cynicism and idealism. I think that that's something that

984
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 5: both of these movies share, and both of these filmmakers share.

985
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, So one interesting point of contrast here has to

986
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 6: do with the structure of the films. I mean, there

987
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 6: is a kind of there. Even though Blind Chains is

988
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 6: a little deliberately rough around the edges, you know, it's

989
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 6: not neatly divided into three sections. You do have a

990
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 6: preluded then you the first segment in the is larger

991
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 6: than the second, which is I think slightly larger than

992
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 6: the third, et cetera. It does have a structure, and

993
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 6: it does allow you to compare it quite cleanly, the

994
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 6: dividing lines between those three different fates, you know, one

995
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,879
Speaker 6: in which v Tech is a communist, another where he's

996
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 6: a rebel of sorts, and another where when he's just

997
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:38,720
Speaker 6: leading a normal, a political, conventional life. Everything everywhere tries

998
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 6: even though it has all of these different as a

999
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 6: multi verse, it has different you know, fates, different possibilities

1000
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 6: or of timelines for Evelyn. That isn't necessarily worked into

1001
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 6: the fabric of the film in quite so clearly demarketed away.

1002
00:53:55,920 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 6: There's much more of a sense of spontaneity supposed to

1003
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 6: the way that the film unfolds. That isn't really true

1004
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,479
Speaker 6: of Blind Chance, which I think is Blind Chances feels

1005
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 6: like a demonstration of a theme, and everything everywhere is

1006
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 6: a little bit more, a little wilder, little deliberately rough

1007
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 6: around the edges.

1008
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 5: I feel like one of the places that Wild and

1009
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 5: This comes from is the decision to show you that

1010
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 5: everybody has all of these branching timelines individually. Blind Chance

1011
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 5: is pretty focused in on VTech's experience, and I don't

1012
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,280
Speaker 5: think it all means to suggest that he is unique.

1013
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 5: I think he's more meant to be representational. And I

1014
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 5: think in particular the third story where we see at

1015
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 5: the airport some of the people that have been important

1016
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 5: in his life, and they're very clearly leading different lives.

1017
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 5: I don't think that's necessarily because of him. I think

1018
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 5: that the implication is just that everybody makes choices, everybody

1019
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 5: deals with Blind Chance, everybody is on all of these

1020
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 5: different tracks, and maybe the reason that everything everywhere feels so,

1021
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,919
Speaker 5: you know, joyously messy. Like I agree that it's messy,

1022
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 5: but I think it's deliberate and fun is that we

1023
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 5: get to see that Wymand has a lot of different

1024
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:20,879
Speaker 5: possibilities himself, that Gongong even has different possibilities, that Joy

1025
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 5: has infinite possibilities and reacts to them very different than

1026
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 5: other people do. So I think both of these films

1027
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 5: suggest that, like the multiverse is just kind of like

1028
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,399
Speaker 5: a universal constant for everybody. Everybody has all of these

1029
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 5: choices to navigate and like these these messy worlds to

1030
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 5: live in. It's just that one of them mostly focuses

1031
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 5: in on one person and only hints at the rest

1032
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 5: of it, and the other one like openly explores the

1033
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 5: rest of it.

1034
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 3: I think if there's one one other thing that unites

1035
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 3: these films beyond their construction, is a sense that really

1036
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 3: nobody influences you as much as your parents. I mean,

1037
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 3: for Vtag, it's it's really trying to either live up

1038
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 3: to what his dad wants him to be or rebel

1039
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 3: against it, or to find a new dad who would

1040
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 3: tell him who he should be. And in you know,

1041
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 3: everything everywhere all at once. It's it's both everyone's dealing

1042
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 3: with with with her issues with their father, she's dealing

1043
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 3: with their daughter, and they're not the same issues but

1044
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 3: at the same time, but they're related in many ways,

1045
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 3: and it's kind of a sense of one generation repeating

1046
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 3: what the other has has done. So I you know,

1047
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 3: parents are all over these movies. Our parents kind of

1048
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 3: central to the multiverse.

1049
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 5: I think parents are central to the choices we make

1050
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 5: whether those parents were very present in our lives or

1051
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 5: completely absent, or somewhere you know, in between. I think

1052
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 5: one of the things we see a lot of in

1053
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 5: Blind's Chance is that, you know, his dad did influence

1054
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 5: and shape him, but at the same time, there's just

1055
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 5: sort of a sense of whatever you're indoctrinated with, you're

1056
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 5: you're more likely to take his truth. Like when VTech

1057
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 5: takes up Werner as his kind of replacement dad and

1058
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 5: ingests all of these ideas about communism and the value

1059
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 5: of it, why it's important. He takes in a whole

1060
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 5: bunch of messaging that he just accepts as true, you know,

1061
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 5: because it comes from his new father figure. And I

1062
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 5: think in the same kind of way, like a lot

1063
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 5: of Joy's joylessness. You know, it's a very ironic name

1064
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 5: she's carrying around, but a lot of her feelings about

1065
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 5: life either come from her mother's handling of her, which

1066
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 5: in some ways is you know, very distanced and disappointed,

1067
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 5: or just from seeing how distanced and disappointed her mother

1068
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 5: is herself, you know, her mother having imagined a lot

1069
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 5: of different lives for herself that didn't carry out. I

1070
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 5: think Joy looks at her and sees just the failure

1071
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 5: of possibility and is like depressed and disheartened by all

1072
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 5: of the ways Evelyn has failed herself and the implication

1073
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 5: that Joy will similarly kind of fail herself. I think

1074
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 5: there's kind of two models here, like our parents teach

1075
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 5: us and what we learn from watching them that they

1076
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 5: don't intend us to learn necessarily.

1077
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, I guess there's a lot of push and pull.

1078
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 6: I guess so that that those are the those you know,

1079
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 6: every every child is going to have to use. Is

1080
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 6: kind of a jumping off point that relationship, but with

1081
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 6: with with their parents, of whether they are going to

1082
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 6: be you know, influenced and guided and inspired by a parent,

1083
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 6: or whether they're going to want to go in their

1084
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 6: own direction or reject completely the life or the ideas

1085
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 6: that the parent might might be wanted to impose on them.

1086
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 6: And so and that is an important point, and it

1087
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 6: is it is you know, an inflection point in those

1088
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 6: in both of these movies, and and and uh, you know,

1089
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 6: the father's death and and Blind Chance and then what

1090
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 6: we know, for example, of of of Evelyn and her

1091
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 6: decision to leave home when she did, and what what

1092
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 6: the significant so that was and where that you know,

1093
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 6: led her life.

1094
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 3: Ultimately, it made me feel good watching these movies that

1095
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 3: I have made no mistakes.

1096
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 6: So far, so so far, so good. Yeah.

1097
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, Wait till you both find out that your daughters

1098
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 5: are the central necstasies of giant multiverse Colla the nose ring.

1099
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 6: They're gonna be like Dominique Swain and face off. They're

1100
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 6: going to get punk. They have a punk phase with

1101
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 6: their a little with their all their makeup and their

1102
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 6: nose rings and want nothing to do with us.

1103
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 5: Tattoos that they will hide under their sleeves.

1104
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly.

1105
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, It's it's certainly significant that Joy's disappointment in her

1106
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 5: mother and desire to break from her is mirrored by

1107
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 5: Evelyn's disappointment her father and attempt to break from him,

1108
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 5: although he rejected her first in a pretty definitive way,

1109
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 5: and you know, in return, she seems to kind of

1110
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 5: reject her daughter and see her daughter as someone she

1111
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 5: should push away because she's again she's mooddeling perhaps unintended

1112
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 5: behaviors or modeling behaviors that were not meant to be illustrative.

1113
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 6: And maybe it's a thing where you know, if you

1114
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 6: if you're disappointed with the way things have gone for

1115
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 6: your life, and you want the best for your kid,

1116
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 6: and then you push them away. You don't want them.

1117
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 6: Maybe you don't want anything that you don't want them

1118
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 6: to be sucked into your crappy timeline on the multiverse.

1119
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's true. There may be just sort of a

1120
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 5: sense and we may get the same thing from Vde's

1121
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 5: father and his like clear attempt to keep his son

1122
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 5: at a distance.

1123
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 6: Don't make this, don't make the same mistakes I did.

1124
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:33,919
Speaker 4: Wow.

1125
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a big in para movies that we've discussed

1126
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 5: a lot about, like whether they're inherently idealistic or cynical.

1127
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 5: Like that is a pretty big point of both cynicism

1128
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 5: and idealism. You know, my life is terrible is a

1129
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 5: is kind of a cynical thought. My life is terrible

1130
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 5: and unrecoverable is a cynical thought. But I can help

1131
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 5: you by rejecting you, so you go do something else

1132
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 5: is like a cynical idea list thought essentially.

1133
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's Galaxy brain citizen right there.

1134
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 5: Well, I think everything everywhere is pretty pretty Galaxy brain

1135
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 5: movie making. And you know, compared to compared to, like

1136
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 5: the speed and ambition it operates at. Blind Chance may

1137
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 5: look pretty pretty like small and calm, but it's like

1138
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 5: Galaxy Brain thinking for its era as well. This just

1139
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 5: isn't a concept that like I've seen before in other

1140
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 5: films that Kaselowski came to in terms of how to

1141
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 5: tell a story, like how to crack open a universe

1142
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 5: into possibilities.

1143
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 6: Well, he's not alive, but he should be getting all

1144
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 6: the royalties for all these all of these films that

1145
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 6: he's influenced.

1146
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 5: I love the idea of doctor Strange in the multiverse

1147
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 5: of madness. Having a credit for Christoph Koselowsky for coming

1148
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 5: up with the idea of the multiverse.

1149
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 6: I'm sure he'd love If You're alive, he would love it.

1150
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 6: I'm sure he would love it.

1151
01:01:57,480 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 5: Well, he'd probably love the money because it would enable

1152
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 5: him too, you know, launched his next twenty film project.

1153
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 6: Yes, well.

1154
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 5: You can see many of Kiselowski's many film projects on

1155
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 5: the Criterion Channel. Blind Chance is available for rent on Amazon,

1156
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 5: on Voodoo, on many other streaming services. Digitally, it's all

1157
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 5: streaming on the Criterion Channel. It's available on Criterion DVD

1158
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 5: and Blu Ray. Everything everywhere, All at once. Is currently

1159
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 5: in theaters That's it for this edition of the Next

1160
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 5: Picture Show, but we'll be back next week with new pairing. Scott,

1161
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 5: can you set us up for our next episodes, which

1162
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 5: are releasing on April twenty sixth and May third.

1163
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 3: Tasha, you must be talking to someone on a different

1164
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 3: timeline or something, because I'm the one who'll be telling

1165
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 3: you about our next pairing. All the next two episodes

1166
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 3: of the Next Picture Show, we'll be looking at two

1167
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 3: films featuring for Nicholas Cages. First, we'll discuss Adaptation, a

1168
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 3: two thousand and three film written by Charlie Kaufman and

1169
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 3: directed by Spike Jones, in which Cage plays a writer's

1170
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:02,479
Speaker 3: block afflicted screenwriter named Charlie Coffman and also his less

1171
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 3: self conscious brother Donald. Then we'll jump cut to twenty

1172
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 3: twenty two to discuss The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent,

1173
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 3: in which Cage plays Nick Cage, a slightly down on

1174
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 3: his luck movie star and also a younger version of

1175
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 3: himself who's a little disappointed at the choices he's made. Yes,

1176
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 3: as Resident Cage Expert, I'll be hosting this one for now, we.

1177
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 5: Welcome your feedback on blind Chants, Everything Everywhere, all at

1178
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 5: Once and anything else film related you'd like to talk about.

1179
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 5: Email us at comments at next pictureshow dot net, and

1180
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 5: come talk to us on Patreon, where you'll find feedback,

1181
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 5: letters and discussion. Before we close out this week's episode,

1182
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 5: Where can we find everyone these days?

1183
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 3: Scott?

1184
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, you can find me on Twitter at Scott Underscore Tobias.

1185
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 6: You can find my work the New York Times, Guardian

1186
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 6: of Vulture, and primarily on The Reveal, the newsletter I

1187
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 6: run with Keith Phipps. The Twitter page for that is

1188
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 6: at Movies Reveal and the site is the Revealed dot

1189
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 6: substack dot com. Keith.

1190
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 3: I also think you should check out the Reveal at

1191
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,439
Speaker 3: the Revealed dot subs do dot dot com, where you'll

1192
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 3: find my writing next to Scott's. You can also find

1193
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 3: me on Twitter at kfif three thousand. You can find

1194
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 3: a writing at places like GQ, The Ringer, TV Guide,

1195
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 3: and Vulture. You can sometimes find it in checkout stands

1196
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,959
Speaker 3: of your grocery store at Entertainment Weekly special editions, which

1197
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 3: is a fun thing. I also have a book called

1198
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 3: Age of Cage, which is about the Nicholas films of

1199
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 3: Nicholas Cage changes in Hollywood. It is in bookstores now

1200
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 3: and also available on Amazon dot com. You know, if

1201
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 3: you want to, if you're interested read it. I'd like it.

1202
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 3: It'd be great. Tasha, how about you.

1203
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 5: I am the film and streaming editor at Polygon dot com,

1204
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 5: where you can find my writing about various forms of

1205
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 5: pop culture. I'm on Twitter at Tasha Robinson. Our absent

1206
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 5: co host, Genevieve is on Twitter at Genevievecosky, and she

1207
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 5: is the TV editor at Vulture dot com. You can

1208
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 5: stay updated on the Next Picture Show at Next Picture

1209
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 5: Show dot net and on Twitter at Next Picture Pod.

1210
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 5: You can get bonus content and opendiscussion at Patreon dot

1211
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 5: com slash Next Picture Show, and as always, we appreciate

1212
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 5: your ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts or wherever you

1213
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 5: listen to the show. Thanks to Dan the Bake Jakes

1214
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 5: for his assistance in producing this podcast. The Next Picture

1215
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 5: Show is proud to be part of the Film Spotting

1216
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 5: family of podcasts. Please tune in next time